Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016–…): Season 3, Episode 4 - The Disappeared - full transcript
Let me get some
light on Tony here.
Thank you.
The rest of the crew go ahead
and come on out for me guys.
There you are, guys.
Clear.
Tonight, we're going to be
discussing a strange alliance,
an alliance that I had
a lot to do with,
and that's between
the Nation of Islam
and the Church of Scientology.
I want to disabuse you of
the though of integration.
Because that is your sickness,
and that is the sickness
of the Civil Rights
Movement that you love
white people more than you love
yourself and your own brothers
and sisters.
You want respect, you
must be self-respected.
You don't demand it.
If you command it by
your own self-respect,
then the world will
show you respect,
and you'll gradually change
the mind of white supremacy.
German Jews financed Hitler.
International bankers
financed Hitlers.
And poor Jews died, while
big Jews were at the root
of what you call the Holocaust.
Why don't you tell that?
That's why he makes
mischief with my words.
Farrakhan wants to get an
army to kill white people.
Because you see white
people deserve to die.
And they know, so they think
it's us coming to do it.
No, no, no.
But the one thing I will
say, brothers and sisters,
we are nonviolent until
somebody attacks us.
You and I are going to have
to learn to distinguish
between the righteous Jew
and the satanic Jews who
have infected the whole world
with poison and deceit.
I found a tool that
I know can help us.
And I thank God for Mr.
L. Ron Hubbard.
And I thank God for his
research and teaching.
They are such
strange bedfellows,
because Scientology believes
that all other faiths, all
other religions are worthless.
The only valuable religion
on earth is Scientology.
And since its
inception, Scientology
has been traditionally white.
If you look back at
historical photos
of the early Scientology
organizations,
they are exclusively white.
Isaac Hayes, who was perhaps
the only prominent black
Scientology celebrity went to
David Miscavige, the leader
of Scientology,
and said, why are
there no organizations being
created in black communities?
David Miscavige became
convinced that the way
to get into the black community
was through the Nation of Islam
and that he would use
celebrities of Scientology
in order to reach out
to the Nation of Islam.
That's where Leah
Remini came in.
I was approached by Scientology
to bridge the gap
between Scientology
and the black community.
And I wanted to do that.
I had no idea what the
Nation of Islam was.
Again, I don't want
to excuse myself,
because I should have
done my due diligence.
But I honestly was
a Scientologist,
and we were not questioning what
our church was asking us to do.
We were not going online.
We were not
investigating people.
We were not doing
what we should have
been doing, which was looking.
I want us all to belong
to the human race.
I want us all to be one.
I want us all to heal.
I want us to take
responsibility for our history
and not have hate for each
other and not teach that hate.
We're going to talk
to Ishmael Bey.
He was a member of the
Nation of Islam for 10 years
and has separated
himself from that,
I guess, at least in
part, or maybe in all,
because of the infiltration
of Scientology
into the Nation of Islam.
Thank you so much for coming.
It's a real pleasure
to meet you.
You're welcome, Mike.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you both.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Why don't you tell us...
Tell us just a brief history
about your involvement
with the Nation of Islam.
Sure.
When I was fresh out
of the military,
I got into the Nation of
Islam, because I thought
that the structure was
going to be great,
because they are the
very family-oriented as
well as very disciplined.
I felt very comfortable in
making that transition.
What are the basic teachings?
The basic teachings are
a lot of self-pride,
a lot of doing for self, being
self-sufficient, family.
They deal with the
tenants of the Qur'an.
It's in a specified way,
because the situation
that we went through in America
is different than anyone else.
So it's customized for
black people going
through the vestiges that
we had to go through,
which were slavery, and the
effects of that slavery.
Now forgive me.
You got to school us.
And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Right.
When you're talking
about teaching people
to be independent,
independent from...
Independent from the
dependency on the Caucasian.
You know, as black people, we
have to make sure that we are
able to build our
own institutions,
to have pride in
ourselves, and not
to be dependent on anyone else.
If I walked into a Nation
of Islam mosque...
I assumed that they're
called mosques.
Yes.
And I said, hey, guys,
I want to join up.
What would happen?
Caucasian people are not
allowed into the temple
or into the mosque.
If we had a general
meeting, like maybe we
were doing something at
a convention center,
Caucasians are able
to attend, but not at
the actual spiritual meetings.
OK, you just blew my mind.
The idea that Scientology
and the Nation of Islam
are coming together...
And as a white person,
you are not allowed to
even enter a Nation
of Islam mosque or temple?
This is, like, I had no idea.
And now, they do have Caucasians
that do come into the mosque
in order to teach Scientology.
So that is an exception
that they make,
as well as they say
that Scientology
gives them the clearance
in order to have access.
So that is being taught.
What was the first time
you heard of Scientology
infiltrating
the Nation of Islam?
We started to see that
buildings were being made,
that the Nation of
Islam were having
secret meetings with
Scientology that the public
had no idea about.
It started going a
different direction
than the core tenets of
what the Nation of Islam
had originally represented.
We started to really
introduce something,
which was called the
self-improvement study guides.
Ishmael, you know
that in Scientology,
those things are called
self-improvement courses,
and they are the
introductory courses
that everybody takes in order
to come into Scientology.
They consist of these innocuous
sounding, sort of secular
things, like improve
your life in this area,
do better with your
finances, do better
with raising your children,
do better with your marriage.
And they don't have
the flavor of...
Scientology.
Scientology.
They have the flavor
of self-help,
just like Dianetics does.
And it is the slippery slope
that results in you ultimately
realizing that all
answers to everything
come from L. Ron Hubbard.
And that's what we're
finding out on our side.
We're finding out
from our community
that this transitional doctrine
was something easing us
into something else,
not even knowing
that almost a mirror
image was being done
in the Church of Scientology.
So what was the
breaking point for you?
The breaking point
for me was when it
started going that direction
with the self-improvement
study guides.
Once I saw that...
It started feeling
very cult-like to me.
It started to be the leader said
this and the leader said that.
And when you can't
critically think,
and when you're
actually being almost
penalized for thinking for
yourself, that's a cult to me.
And it's not even
just by the Nation.
There are churches that are
being brought into this.
There are churches
that get the pitch,
black churches getting
the pitch of come in
and try Dianetics for yourself.
So it was broader than
just the Nation of Islam.
And then we supply
the information
proving that L. Ron Hubbard
said that there is no Christ.
When dealing with
Christianity, he
said that there is no Christ.
That's a fact.
That's a fact that that's
what's taught in Scientology?
You know when you learn that?
When you're $300,000 in.
They're walking
into your church,
telling you to join
up with Scientology
and just try this Dianetics.
But the endgame
is, they're going
to tell you, once you go up the
bridge that there is no Christ.
That's what they're
going to tell you.
Yeah, and beyond even that,
Ishmael, is there's no Allah.
There is no religious
leader who has ever
existed that was anything
other than a thing
designed to control people.
Yes.
That is the actual teaching of L.
Ron Hubbard...
That they are things that were
implanted in your mind...
They're called implants...
And that they are designed
to control the population.
All religion is that,
except Scientology.
They're newborns to the
lingo, to what to expect,
so just as clueless as you
would be and you said,
I don't know anything about
the Nation of Islam,
they're just as clueless as what
to expect through Scientology.
So when we tell them, look,
if you think that this is not
going to lead you to
being a Scientologist,
you're fooling yourself.
You're going to give up whatever
you profess as a religion,
and you're going to
be a cult member,
worshipping L. Ron Hubbard.
And sure enough, they now
call him the honorable LRH.
They now meet in the
Scientology buildings.
They now are being bestowed
with the Scientology awards.
And within the Nation
of Islam, it's
now a celebrated thing
that the first female
has gone clear recently.
And then in 2015, the
first male went clear.
So these are supposed
to be pivotal points.
But the reality of that
is that you really just
bought into the illusion,
and the other people
are going to be following
you into nothingness.
And it goes against everything
the Nation of Islam
is supposed to stand for.
You know, it's separating out
from we're independent from,
It's being independent.
We're responsible
for our own lives,
and we have the power to...
You're doing exactly the
opposite of what the teachings
are supposed to be.
We get why Scientology is
interested in the Nation
and infiltrating
community churches.
But what's in it for the Nation?
Now we get why Scientology
is interested in the Nation,
but what's in it for the Nation?
There is a policy
within Scientology
that once you become staff,
you get financial reward
for bringing in people.
It's not just people who are
on staff, anybody that brings
someone into Scientology and
gets them to pay money,
gets 10% of everything they pay.
Everything.
Wow.
You get somebody to go up to
OT III, you've made a good...
What... $20,000, $30,000?
A lot of change.
Right, right.
And the dynamics of
what takes place
between this whole
relationship...
Between the Nation of Islam and
the Church of Scientology... one
is definitely on the
upper hand, and one is
definitely on the lower hand.
Because we're dealing with the
dynamics of income, and power,
and what that money can do.
In 2011, there were people
that were sponsoring
Nation of Islam people.
We didn't know who they were.
But somebody was
paying to make sure
that they could
enter these courses
and to get deeper into this.
And we couldn't figure it out.
They were coming
to people like me,
and they were saying,
hey, we want you guys
to sponsor Nation
of Islam members
to come in and do
these seminars.
And I was like, I have
never heard of this.
Oh, nothing's for
free in Scientology.
Scientology goes, I want you
to give a loan to this person,
so they can pay.
That happens often.
Or, Leah, take out a loan to pay
for your bridge, your mother's
bridge, your kids' bridge
all in advance.
But never have I been
asked in all my years
in Scientology to
sponsor someone I don't
know to pay for Scientology.
And my thing, why I am
interested in it, because I was
helping this marriage, in a
way, of the Nation, not knowing
anything about the
Nation of Islam,
just really literally
going, yes, why do
we not have black people here?
Where's all the Latinos?
Where's all the Asians?
Where was anybody other
than white people?
Yes.
And as I got up and up
and up in Scientology,
you know, I started
looking around, going,
where are we in the communities?
Well, at the time, I was
like, OK, you know,
whatever I got to do.
They asked me to
sponsor Tony Muhammad.
Tony Muhammad.
He's definitely one of the key
members of the Nation of Islam,
basically the west coast
regional minister
of the Nation of Islam.
And he was one of the key people
that brought in this influx
of Nation of Islam members.
Right.
If we go on the
Scientology website,
we see Tony Muhammad
right there prominently.
I have become a better Muslim
as a result of my relationship
to the Church of Scientology.
The world should be grateful
that, in our lifetime,
along came a being known as Mr.
L. Ron Hubbard.
We say that when a man
comes along like that,
his name should be
mentioned right along
with the names of the saints.
And we are thankful
to Almighty God
that a human being like Mr.
Hubbard came this way.
What did he win recently?
The IAS Freedom Medal,
the highest award
that Scientology dishes out.
Tom Cruise has one
of those things.
Absolute, our IAS
Freedom Medal winner
for Tony Muhammad.
A man that I would
run into any battle
with, that man is the
chairman of the board,
Mr. David Miscavige.
Tony Muhammad and just
like everybody else who
is going to be indoctrinated
into Scientology
is being kind of...
What's a word that they
use for this in cults?
Like love...
Love bombed.
Love bombed with awards
and giving him...
Oh, they flew him first
class over to England
to receive this award, and
stayed in the finest hotels,
and wined and dined, and
all of that sort of stuff.
When I first met Tony Muhammad,
we were talking
about my passions
about solving the
gangs, and trying
to get these inner cities built
up, and trying to get education
to get in there, and get
these kids out of the cycle
of from neighborhood to prison.
That's what I was
interested in doing.
And Scientology creates a
person that says, don't worry.
We got that.
You don't need to
do any of that.
We're doing it.
Give us all your time.
Give us all your money.
Give up your family.
Give up your religious beliefs.
Look at these amazing things
we're doing in the communities.
So you don't need
to do anything,
Tony Muhammad, Leah Remini.
We got it.
And now, Tony Muhammad
works for Scientology.
That's it.
What I said to you, it will
take away the core of you.
It'll take away the
person that you are.
Because Tony Muhammad
used to be the guy
that was out in the
neighborhoods trying to help.
It's bigger than just
the Nation of Islam.
We already are on the lowest
of the economic scales.
We already are be afflicted by
things that we can't control,
like injustice and poverty.
We're already facing these type
of things every single day.
The last thing we need
is a false savior
being pushed down our throats.
L. Ron Hubbard is not
an angelic figure.
He's not a saint.
And we cannot waste time chasing
something that's fiction.
At the end of the
day, our community
has to realize who they're
turning over their minds to.
This is mind control
that's being fed to them,
and it's all we're
trying to prevent...
The breakup and the
harming of families.
Now, we're joined by Hector
Falu-Muhammad, member
of the Nation of
Islam for 26 years
and has experience
from the inside
the infiltration of Scientology
into the Nation of Islam.
Thank you so much for
joining us, Hector.
Thank you for having me.
Its a great pleasure
to meet you.
It's a great pleasure,
great pleasure.
So why don't you tell
us what you saw?
Well, back in 2011,
I was approached
by some national
officials from Chicago
in regards to help in
bringing in Latino members
into the Nation of Islam.
In the midst of
the conversation,
they asked me what I
thought about Dianetics.
And at the time, I didn't know
anything about Dianetics.
I had pretty much answered,
I really don't know.
So at that point, I did express
my dissent as to what I saw,
what I found was contradictory.
But it was pretty much played
off that I need to study more.
I don't understand.
You need to pray more.
You need to study
more to understand
the direction that our leader,
Minister Louis Farrakhan,
is taking us to.
And who was telling you that?
That's coming from
national officials.
What happens then?
Because in Scientology, once
you start speaking out,
you're then vilified.
Did that start to happen
within your group?
Yes, I was singled out for
that specific purpose.
2014, there's a group
in the mosque.
They call themselves the
Lions Out The Cage.
They had a radio blog.
And in one of the shows, they
spent 15 minutes on myself.
In the show, they said that I
stole from Minister Farrakhan.
They said that I still eat
pork, and that I commit
indecent sex acts on my wife.
And I thought it was
strange, because for one, I
didn't know who these
brothers were personally.
And I don't know why they were
targeting me specifically
on this radio blog,
which was being
heard throughout the whole
Nation of Islam at that.
So I called them, and I just
asked them, what's going on?
Why are you singling me out?
Yeah, I said it.
So what?
We don't care.
That was pretty much the answer.
This was unusual for
you, this type of...
This was totally blindsided.
Then shortly thereafter,
a sister in the nation
reached out to me
and asked me, did
you call for the assassination
of Minister Farrakhan?
I was like, what?
So she showed me the posts,
where her brother put
on his Facebook page
that I specifically
called for the assassination
of Minister Farrakhan.
And I thought that
was just crazy.
It was like, why?
What did I do?
I've done nothing to anybody.
This, to me, makes sense.
As soon as Scientology
comes in on the scene,
they're attacking their most
loyal and dedicated members.
For questioning Scientology.
In Scientology, the minute
you question Scientology,
you become labeled an enemy.
You are considered to be
something to be destroyed.
You're going to get smeared.
So fascinating to hear how
quickly this technology
permeated the Nation of Islam.
Is there something in
the Nation of Islam
that tells you to do this?
Yes.
There's been a command that
came from a member of Minister
Farrakhan's personal staff.
He said that if anyone is
critical of Minister Farrakhan
to attack them like
a hornet's nest.
And this attack
like a hornet, this
is a new concept that didn't
exist before the engagement
with Scientology?
This is very, very, very new.
It was very recent, yeah.
Even in the mosque beforehand,
we always implored what they
call the atonement process.
Even if I offended you, we sat
down as brothers and sisters,
and we talked about
why I offended you.
Hey, brother, what you
said to me offended me.
Can you explain why
you said that?
Not trash you on a podcast.
No, not at all.
We always sat down.
That's why I went ahead
and called them,
because that's what we do.
We reach out, and we
talk to each other.
Whereas after the Scientology
infiltration, if you disagreed,
you got blocked.
You got deleted.
They stopped talking to you...
Very similar to as they would
in the Church of Scientology.
Right.
You know, you start to
be labeled an enemy.
You're told, hey, you better
stop talking about Scientology.
You're going to get
put out the mosque,
almost as if Dianetics is the
law now of Nation of Islam.
In Nation of Islam,
we have what's
called a restrictive law.
Restrictive law... no
fornicating, no lying,
no stealing, pretty much
like the 10 commandments,
to better explain it.
And if you violate those,
there's a certain time period,
if you're found guilty in
front of the leadership
of the mosque, that you're
given time out of the mosque
for violating those
restrictive laws.
So there is a due
process, if you would.
But now, once you start talking
about Scientology negatively,
you automatically are cast out.
All that is very odd.
Not to us.
Especially in our culture,
the Nation's culture.
Yes, see, for us, this
is every day for us.
Scientology is the antithesis
of bonding, and having loyalty,
and having true faith in God, in
any god, other than Scientology.
There is no faith.
There is no brotherhood in
Scientology or sisterhood.
There is none of that.
So we can all agree with that.
And that is going
to be attacked.
That will go away, as you
have seen so quickly, even
within your questioning
your own brothers
and sisters, how quickly
they turned on you.
That is a great example of the
technology of Scientology.
The one thing
that infuriates me
the most is you
find pictures of children in the
Nation holding Dianetics books.
We have children that
are in the Nation.
I don't want my children
studying Dianetics.
I don't want them
studying Scientology.
I don't want them to go through
any kind of disconnect
or any of that.
That's something that
I didn't come up in.
The way I came up was totally
different how things are now,
and that's the
future that I want
for my children and
all the children
in the Nation of Islam.
I don't want them growing up
learning about L. Ron Hubbard
and how he's an angel.
I don't want my children
exposed to those falsehoods.
And we see Nation
of Islam people
on John Travolta's jet going to
Haiti to make sure that they're
teaching the Haitian
children these things
and other communities
these things.
And that's what we're
trying to combat also.
We see Scientology being taught
in Ghana, this falsehood.
We see it being taught in Haiti.
Or they'll see the first
calamity that comes up,
and they use it as an
opportunity to exploit.
So it's many different levels
of what we're trying to combat.
That's why we say
that we understand
from the Scientology side of
this what they see to gain.
Yes.
It's this legitimizing
their ability
to reach into these communities
using the Nation of Islam.
And the Nation of Islam,
apparently, the leadership
is fully in, and the membership
appears to not understand
what's really going on.
How many members of the
Nation of Islam are there?
I would say, approximately
maybe 20,000.
20,000 on the roster.
Is that primarily in
the United States?
It's primarily in
the United States.
Yes.
So the organization and the
membership of this organization
is actually bigger
than Scientology
in the United States.
Absolutely.
As far as bodies, yes.
As far as bodies, yes.
And this is another
reason why Miscavige
and Scientology love this.
They spend $20 million
building an organization,
like the Ideal
Organization in Inglewood,
and it has, like,
10 people in it.
The Nation of Islam, if
they are on the ball
and with the program,
and Tony Mohamed
is telling them what to do, can
bring in 10 people like this.
What we're noticing
with Scientology
is that they're investing
millions and millions
of dollars into real estate
into our communities that
are traditionally
black communities.
They're investing in
Ideal Org in Atlanta.
They have one in
Harlem, New York.
They're going to be
moving into Detroit.
And they have one that's
in Inglewood, California.
So these are not
small investments.
They're investing big
money into something
that we have to be abreast of.
But recognize also,
Ismail, that money
is being invested in real estate
because of the tax-exempt
status.
Money that is invested in
purchasing real estate,
they get to keep.
That stays on the
books as an asset.
They could make inroads
into Inglewood, or Harlem,
or Detroit, or anywhere else
without spending $10 million
on a building.
In fact, I imagine that in
the minds of some people
in those communities,
they go, what
are these people doing here?
Why are they doing this?
As a matter of fact,
when we were spread out
to start to infiltrate, but in
my mind, I was there to help,
and we met with Chip Murray...
He's a leader of the community
at the First AME Church...
I went and asked
him, what can we do?
Thinking about opening up
a mission at the time.
It was my baby.
I wanted to open up a
mission in Inglewood.
And he said, if y'all want to
give us your drug programs,
we'd like that help.
So if they're such
a damn church,
why don't they just
go to the community?
Community answered
what we needed.
They were like, no, thanks.
But it's no different
in Harlem and Inglewood
than it is in Phoenix, Seattle,
Oslo, or anywhere else.
It's the same shtick.
It's the same stuff
that is being done,
the pretense of we're here
to help the community.
But really, what
we're doing is we're
just puffing up our
real estate portfolio
and pretending to
our Scientologists
that look how we're expanding.
Because Scientologists are
convinced that with the opening
of each one of these new
church organizations,
L. Ron Hubbard's technology is
spreading further and helping
more people in the world.
Literally, that is
what they believe.
Well, we're going
to meet somebody
who worked in the Inglewood
organization of Scientology.
And let's hear from
her what kind of help
Scientology was giving
to that community.
Tiponi Grey worked
at the Inglewood
Organization of Scientology.
Welcome.
Thank you for joining us.
I wanted so badly for this
Inglewood organization
to be there.
I was commended for it.
I have commendations from Tony
Muhammad and David Miscavige
for putting that there.
And now, I'm somebody
who is saying,
I wish I hadn't put it there.
My little mission and
community center
that I was going to open in
Inglewood through Scientology
became now a big
organization called
the Inglewood Organization.
In true Scientology fashion,
they turned what was coming
from my heart... because I
had to pay for the original
package of this mission
to open to this
big fancy organization...
That turned into something else,
which was for Scientology
to appear as though it was
serving the community
and then use me to promote
it as such and I did.
Inglewood Org is the
first of its kind
in that it is truly
for the community.
It's what LRH would want.
And to be able to see his dream
lived out in such a big way
just touches my heart,
because it really
is the first of its kind...
This org.
But how did you get involved?
How did you become an employee
of the Inglewood Organization?
Well, I was dating a guy,
and we had broke up.
And he told me to come
down to this place... he
didn't tell me where it was...
And to take a personality test.
And I took the test.
The missionary that tested
me, he was like, you know,
you're really good at this.
And he goes and he talks
to the other missionaries.
And he comes back and he said,
I want to offer you a job.
And I said, OK, you know,
because I wasn't working.
So I was like, OK.
I had heard about Scientology.
I had heard about
it for years on TV.
And I was interested in it.
I wanted to know everything
I could know about it.
And he told me, anything that
you want to learn in here,
you can learn it.
But you don't have
to pay for it.
That's basically how I got
started working there.
You said, prior to this,
you were interested.
I wouldn't know any
reason why you would be.
Yeah, well, it was basically
because of my spirituality.
I was trying to
grow spiritually.
And then they were telling me
all these levels, and these OT
levels and everything,
and they were saying
how I can grow spiritually.
So that was the main reason
why I did join them.
Now were you raised in
any type of religion?
Yes, Christianity.
And why were you seeking
to get away from that?
I had a lot of problems
with Christianity.
I used to get in trouble
with pastors and everything
because I always
asked questions.
And it was something
more I had to learn,
and I couldn't learn
it in a church.
So what did you learn
in Scientology
that gave you those answers
that you were seeking?
I didn't really learn
anything in Scientology.
They tell it to you like you're
going to reach this higher
level of consciousness.
It was a whole lie.
What were the
things that you saw
that started to open your eyes?
They were doing an event
for their anniversary.
And I was like, oh, well,
it's around Thanksgiving,
we can get turkeys.
And then they stopped me.
And I was like, well, if you're
going to help the community,
why not?
This is the perfect time.
And they were like,
no, we can't do that.
We don't have money for that.
I was like, you're
supposed to be helping.
And if we're going to do
this event, let's help.
And they were just like,
no, you don't understand.
You'll get it later.
You'll understand this.
So what were they doing as
far as community services?
Were they going out to
the public and saying,
we'd like to offer
you free lectures?
We'd like to offer
you some counseling.
We'd like to offer you...
They weren't doing that?
No.
The only thing that
they did was they
had people go out
and hand out flyers
and invite people to come and
take a free personality test.
Once somebody comes in
for a personality test,
the whole purpose of that is
to get people in, to get them
just buy Scientology courses.
Right, right, to be
calling yourself a church
and then demanding that the
public pay for all this help...
Pay for this book, pay for
that course, pay for this...
Is ridiculous.
I was like, you're not going to
get anybody in here like this.
Let's give them something.
And they just didn't
want to give anything.
Tiponi, you had the job
at some point of getting
people to come back who had
strayed or left the church
or whatever?
Yes, yes.
Tell us about that.
Why had they gone?
The majority of the
people that left
were saying that it was
not what they expected.
I mean, that's what
everybody said.
I would call them, and I would
try to get them to come in.
But they were like,
no, because they
told me they were going to do
this, and they didn't do that.
And they say they'd
help with this,
and you don't help with that.
And I was like, well, I'm not
the one, but we will come in,
we'll help you.
This was before I knew
exactly that they
weren't going to get the help.
And I'm telling
them, yes, you can.
And they were like,
no, you don't.
You don't know this.
They were schooling you, like,
you're obviously new there.
Yeah.
They're telling me,
no, you're not.
And I'm like, yes, you are.
People often ask us, you
knew you were lying, right?
Mike and I would go and promote
and get people in Scientology.
So why were you
perpetuating this,
knowing that you yourself went
for spiritual enlightenment,
and you weren't receiving it?
I guess I kept hoping that
I'm going to get there.
But I'm telling these people
that yeah, you'll get there,
but I haven't got there.
I started telling
people on the low,
I was like, OK, I'm not
agreeing with everything
that Scientology says.
But if you come in... you
know, I started giving them
that, because I was really
seeing that it wasn't what
they wanted.
It wasn't what I wanted.
Were people in the Ideal
Org of Inglewood?
It's a beautiful building.
It's beautiful inside, but
there's no people there.
In the daytime, there was
mostly about 10 people there.
But was that the staff?
Yeah.
And like three or four in the
classroom in the public class.
They have that site and
then they have another one.
- The community center.
- Yeah.
They had the community center.
And I went over there,
and it's abandoned.
It's nobody there.
And they have this big,
beautiful building,
so I'm like...
Doing nothing.
Open it to the homeless people.
Yes.
Why not open it
to the community?
Yes.
And I was like, this is a
shame that they spend all
this money for these buildings.
And they're calling
them these ideal places
and this org and this thing.
And there's nobody
coming because you
guys are lying to people.
Right, so continue to protect
yours, your families,
your friends, your kids.
Thank you again for giving
us the opportunity.
Yeah, thank you.
And just before we go, Mr.
Farrakhan,
you've mentioned me in
one of your speeches.
And I would like to
take this opportunity
to address some of the
questions that you have asked.
I know that this is the time
that they're making an all-out
move to destroy Scientology.
But what I ask Ms. Remy
or whatever her name is,
she's going in hard.
She's hurt by something.
I know a lot of Muslims that's
hurt, hurt because they came
in looking for
something, but didn't
necessarily find what they were
looking for and walk away.
And when you walked
away, where did you go?
What did you do?
How did you gain?
What did you lose?
No one's trying to take
Scientology down for reasons
that are unwarranted.
And once you are in Scientology,
for a good 35, 45 years,
maybe then ask these
kinds of questions.
And you should ask these
types of questions
to the families who have been
destroyed, who don't see
their sons and daughters,
because Scientology has
brainwashed them into believing
that they should not talk
to their own mother and
father, or that a mother
or father should disown
their own children because
of their beliefs in Scientology.
And so when you go to
sleep at night crying,
because you don't have your
daughter, or your son,
or your mom, or your
children have never
met your grandparents, because
they believe in Scientology
more than family,
that's when you
can start questioning
people and why
and how they have been hurt.
Because they have
been hurt deeply.
And also, Mr. Farrakhan, the
name is Leah "Re-mi-ni" Remini.
Thank you so much
for doing this.
Really, I so appreciate that.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, sweetheart.
Thank you so much
for being brave.
Yes.
I hear that.
I know, I should
have pushed more.
Thank you so much for
doing this, really,
I so appreciate it.
light on Tony here.
Thank you.
The rest of the crew go ahead
and come on out for me guys.
There you are, guys.
Clear.
Tonight, we're going to be
discussing a strange alliance,
an alliance that I had
a lot to do with,
and that's between
the Nation of Islam
and the Church of Scientology.
I want to disabuse you of
the though of integration.
Because that is your sickness,
and that is the sickness
of the Civil Rights
Movement that you love
white people more than you love
yourself and your own brothers
and sisters.
You want respect, you
must be self-respected.
You don't demand it.
If you command it by
your own self-respect,
then the world will
show you respect,
and you'll gradually change
the mind of white supremacy.
German Jews financed Hitler.
International bankers
financed Hitlers.
And poor Jews died, while
big Jews were at the root
of what you call the Holocaust.
Why don't you tell that?
That's why he makes
mischief with my words.
Farrakhan wants to get an
army to kill white people.
Because you see white
people deserve to die.
And they know, so they think
it's us coming to do it.
No, no, no.
But the one thing I will
say, brothers and sisters,
we are nonviolent until
somebody attacks us.
You and I are going to have
to learn to distinguish
between the righteous Jew
and the satanic Jews who
have infected the whole world
with poison and deceit.
I found a tool that
I know can help us.
And I thank God for Mr.
L. Ron Hubbard.
And I thank God for his
research and teaching.
They are such
strange bedfellows,
because Scientology believes
that all other faiths, all
other religions are worthless.
The only valuable religion
on earth is Scientology.
And since its
inception, Scientology
has been traditionally white.
If you look back at
historical photos
of the early Scientology
organizations,
they are exclusively white.
Isaac Hayes, who was perhaps
the only prominent black
Scientology celebrity went to
David Miscavige, the leader
of Scientology,
and said, why are
there no organizations being
created in black communities?
David Miscavige became
convinced that the way
to get into the black community
was through the Nation of Islam
and that he would use
celebrities of Scientology
in order to reach out
to the Nation of Islam.
That's where Leah
Remini came in.
I was approached by Scientology
to bridge the gap
between Scientology
and the black community.
And I wanted to do that.
I had no idea what the
Nation of Islam was.
Again, I don't want
to excuse myself,
because I should have
done my due diligence.
But I honestly was
a Scientologist,
and we were not questioning what
our church was asking us to do.
We were not going online.
We were not
investigating people.
We were not doing
what we should have
been doing, which was looking.
I want us all to belong
to the human race.
I want us all to be one.
I want us all to heal.
I want us to take
responsibility for our history
and not have hate for each
other and not teach that hate.
We're going to talk
to Ishmael Bey.
He was a member of the
Nation of Islam for 10 years
and has separated
himself from that,
I guess, at least in
part, or maybe in all,
because of the infiltration
of Scientology
into the Nation of Islam.
Thank you so much for coming.
It's a real pleasure
to meet you.
You're welcome, Mike.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you both.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Why don't you tell us...
Tell us just a brief history
about your involvement
with the Nation of Islam.
Sure.
When I was fresh out
of the military,
I got into the Nation of
Islam, because I thought
that the structure was
going to be great,
because they are the
very family-oriented as
well as very disciplined.
I felt very comfortable in
making that transition.
What are the basic teachings?
The basic teachings are
a lot of self-pride,
a lot of doing for self, being
self-sufficient, family.
They deal with the
tenants of the Qur'an.
It's in a specified way,
because the situation
that we went through in America
is different than anyone else.
So it's customized for
black people going
through the vestiges that
we had to go through,
which were slavery, and the
effects of that slavery.
Now forgive me.
You got to school us.
And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
Right.
When you're talking
about teaching people
to be independent,
independent from...
Independent from the
dependency on the Caucasian.
You know, as black people, we
have to make sure that we are
able to build our
own institutions,
to have pride in
ourselves, and not
to be dependent on anyone else.
If I walked into a Nation
of Islam mosque...
I assumed that they're
called mosques.
Yes.
And I said, hey, guys,
I want to join up.
What would happen?
Caucasian people are not
allowed into the temple
or into the mosque.
If we had a general
meeting, like maybe we
were doing something at
a convention center,
Caucasians are able
to attend, but not at
the actual spiritual meetings.
OK, you just blew my mind.
The idea that Scientology
and the Nation of Islam
are coming together...
And as a white person,
you are not allowed to
even enter a Nation
of Islam mosque or temple?
This is, like, I had no idea.
And now, they do have Caucasians
that do come into the mosque
in order to teach Scientology.
So that is an exception
that they make,
as well as they say
that Scientology
gives them the clearance
in order to have access.
So that is being taught.
What was the first time
you heard of Scientology
infiltrating
the Nation of Islam?
We started to see that
buildings were being made,
that the Nation of
Islam were having
secret meetings with
Scientology that the public
had no idea about.
It started going a
different direction
than the core tenets of
what the Nation of Islam
had originally represented.
We started to really
introduce something,
which was called the
self-improvement study guides.
Ishmael, you know
that in Scientology,
those things are called
self-improvement courses,
and they are the
introductory courses
that everybody takes in order
to come into Scientology.
They consist of these innocuous
sounding, sort of secular
things, like improve
your life in this area,
do better with your
finances, do better
with raising your children,
do better with your marriage.
And they don't have
the flavor of...
Scientology.
Scientology.
They have the flavor
of self-help,
just like Dianetics does.
And it is the slippery slope
that results in you ultimately
realizing that all
answers to everything
come from L. Ron Hubbard.
And that's what we're
finding out on our side.
We're finding out
from our community
that this transitional doctrine
was something easing us
into something else,
not even knowing
that almost a mirror
image was being done
in the Church of Scientology.
So what was the
breaking point for you?
The breaking point
for me was when it
started going that direction
with the self-improvement
study guides.
Once I saw that...
It started feeling
very cult-like to me.
It started to be the leader said
this and the leader said that.
And when you can't
critically think,
and when you're
actually being almost
penalized for thinking for
yourself, that's a cult to me.
And it's not even
just by the Nation.
There are churches that are
being brought into this.
There are churches
that get the pitch,
black churches getting
the pitch of come in
and try Dianetics for yourself.
So it was broader than
just the Nation of Islam.
And then we supply
the information
proving that L. Ron Hubbard
said that there is no Christ.
When dealing with
Christianity, he
said that there is no Christ.
That's a fact.
That's a fact that that's
what's taught in Scientology?
You know when you learn that?
When you're $300,000 in.
They're walking
into your church,
telling you to join
up with Scientology
and just try this Dianetics.
But the endgame
is, they're going
to tell you, once you go up the
bridge that there is no Christ.
That's what they're
going to tell you.
Yeah, and beyond even that,
Ishmael, is there's no Allah.
There is no religious
leader who has ever
existed that was anything
other than a thing
designed to control people.
Yes.
That is the actual teaching of L.
Ron Hubbard...
That they are things that were
implanted in your mind...
They're called implants...
And that they are designed
to control the population.
All religion is that,
except Scientology.
They're newborns to the
lingo, to what to expect,
so just as clueless as you
would be and you said,
I don't know anything about
the Nation of Islam,
they're just as clueless as what
to expect through Scientology.
So when we tell them, look,
if you think that this is not
going to lead you to
being a Scientologist,
you're fooling yourself.
You're going to give up whatever
you profess as a religion,
and you're going to
be a cult member,
worshipping L. Ron Hubbard.
And sure enough, they now
call him the honorable LRH.
They now meet in the
Scientology buildings.
They now are being bestowed
with the Scientology awards.
And within the Nation
of Islam, it's
now a celebrated thing
that the first female
has gone clear recently.
And then in 2015, the
first male went clear.
So these are supposed
to be pivotal points.
But the reality of that
is that you really just
bought into the illusion,
and the other people
are going to be following
you into nothingness.
And it goes against everything
the Nation of Islam
is supposed to stand for.
You know, it's separating out
from we're independent from,
It's being independent.
We're responsible
for our own lives,
and we have the power to...
You're doing exactly the
opposite of what the teachings
are supposed to be.
We get why Scientology is
interested in the Nation
and infiltrating
community churches.
But what's in it for the Nation?
Now we get why Scientology
is interested in the Nation,
but what's in it for the Nation?
There is a policy
within Scientology
that once you become staff,
you get financial reward
for bringing in people.
It's not just people who are
on staff, anybody that brings
someone into Scientology and
gets them to pay money,
gets 10% of everything they pay.
Everything.
Wow.
You get somebody to go up to
OT III, you've made a good...
What... $20,000, $30,000?
A lot of change.
Right, right.
And the dynamics of
what takes place
between this whole
relationship...
Between the Nation of Islam and
the Church of Scientology... one
is definitely on the
upper hand, and one is
definitely on the lower hand.
Because we're dealing with the
dynamics of income, and power,
and what that money can do.
In 2011, there were people
that were sponsoring
Nation of Islam people.
We didn't know who they were.
But somebody was
paying to make sure
that they could
enter these courses
and to get deeper into this.
And we couldn't figure it out.
They were coming
to people like me,
and they were saying,
hey, we want you guys
to sponsor Nation
of Islam members
to come in and do
these seminars.
And I was like, I have
never heard of this.
Oh, nothing's for
free in Scientology.
Scientology goes, I want you
to give a loan to this person,
so they can pay.
That happens often.
Or, Leah, take out a loan to pay
for your bridge, your mother's
bridge, your kids' bridge
all in advance.
But never have I been
asked in all my years
in Scientology to
sponsor someone I don't
know to pay for Scientology.
And my thing, why I am
interested in it, because I was
helping this marriage, in a
way, of the Nation, not knowing
anything about the
Nation of Islam,
just really literally
going, yes, why do
we not have black people here?
Where's all the Latinos?
Where's all the Asians?
Where was anybody other
than white people?
Yes.
And as I got up and up
and up in Scientology,
you know, I started
looking around, going,
where are we in the communities?
Well, at the time, I was
like, OK, you know,
whatever I got to do.
They asked me to
sponsor Tony Muhammad.
Tony Muhammad.
He's definitely one of the key
members of the Nation of Islam,
basically the west coast
regional minister
of the Nation of Islam.
And he was one of the key people
that brought in this influx
of Nation of Islam members.
Right.
If we go on the
Scientology website,
we see Tony Muhammad
right there prominently.
I have become a better Muslim
as a result of my relationship
to the Church of Scientology.
The world should be grateful
that, in our lifetime,
along came a being known as Mr.
L. Ron Hubbard.
We say that when a man
comes along like that,
his name should be
mentioned right along
with the names of the saints.
And we are thankful
to Almighty God
that a human being like Mr.
Hubbard came this way.
What did he win recently?
The IAS Freedom Medal,
the highest award
that Scientology dishes out.
Tom Cruise has one
of those things.
Absolute, our IAS
Freedom Medal winner
for Tony Muhammad.
A man that I would
run into any battle
with, that man is the
chairman of the board,
Mr. David Miscavige.
Tony Muhammad and just
like everybody else who
is going to be indoctrinated
into Scientology
is being kind of...
What's a word that they
use for this in cults?
Like love...
Love bombed.
Love bombed with awards
and giving him...
Oh, they flew him first
class over to England
to receive this award, and
stayed in the finest hotels,
and wined and dined, and
all of that sort of stuff.
When I first met Tony Muhammad,
we were talking
about my passions
about solving the
gangs, and trying
to get these inner cities built
up, and trying to get education
to get in there, and get
these kids out of the cycle
of from neighborhood to prison.
That's what I was
interested in doing.
And Scientology creates a
person that says, don't worry.
We got that.
You don't need to
do any of that.
We're doing it.
Give us all your time.
Give us all your money.
Give up your family.
Give up your religious beliefs.
Look at these amazing things
we're doing in the communities.
So you don't need
to do anything,
Tony Muhammad, Leah Remini.
We got it.
And now, Tony Muhammad
works for Scientology.
That's it.
What I said to you, it will
take away the core of you.
It'll take away the
person that you are.
Because Tony Muhammad
used to be the guy
that was out in the
neighborhoods trying to help.
It's bigger than just
the Nation of Islam.
We already are on the lowest
of the economic scales.
We already are be afflicted by
things that we can't control,
like injustice and poverty.
We're already facing these type
of things every single day.
The last thing we need
is a false savior
being pushed down our throats.
L. Ron Hubbard is not
an angelic figure.
He's not a saint.
And we cannot waste time chasing
something that's fiction.
At the end of the
day, our community
has to realize who they're
turning over their minds to.
This is mind control
that's being fed to them,
and it's all we're
trying to prevent...
The breakup and the
harming of families.
Now, we're joined by Hector
Falu-Muhammad, member
of the Nation of
Islam for 26 years
and has experience
from the inside
the infiltration of Scientology
into the Nation of Islam.
Thank you so much for
joining us, Hector.
Thank you for having me.
Its a great pleasure
to meet you.
It's a great pleasure,
great pleasure.
So why don't you tell
us what you saw?
Well, back in 2011,
I was approached
by some national
officials from Chicago
in regards to help in
bringing in Latino members
into the Nation of Islam.
In the midst of
the conversation,
they asked me what I
thought about Dianetics.
And at the time, I didn't know
anything about Dianetics.
I had pretty much answered,
I really don't know.
So at that point, I did express
my dissent as to what I saw,
what I found was contradictory.
But it was pretty much played
off that I need to study more.
I don't understand.
You need to pray more.
You need to study
more to understand
the direction that our leader,
Minister Louis Farrakhan,
is taking us to.
And who was telling you that?
That's coming from
national officials.
What happens then?
Because in Scientology, once
you start speaking out,
you're then vilified.
Did that start to happen
within your group?
Yes, I was singled out for
that specific purpose.
2014, there's a group
in the mosque.
They call themselves the
Lions Out The Cage.
They had a radio blog.
And in one of the shows, they
spent 15 minutes on myself.
In the show, they said that I
stole from Minister Farrakhan.
They said that I still eat
pork, and that I commit
indecent sex acts on my wife.
And I thought it was
strange, because for one, I
didn't know who these
brothers were personally.
And I don't know why they were
targeting me specifically
on this radio blog,
which was being
heard throughout the whole
Nation of Islam at that.
So I called them, and I just
asked them, what's going on?
Why are you singling me out?
Yeah, I said it.
So what?
We don't care.
That was pretty much the answer.
This was unusual for
you, this type of...
This was totally blindsided.
Then shortly thereafter,
a sister in the nation
reached out to me
and asked me, did
you call for the assassination
of Minister Farrakhan?
I was like, what?
So she showed me the posts,
where her brother put
on his Facebook page
that I specifically
called for the assassination
of Minister Farrakhan.
And I thought that
was just crazy.
It was like, why?
What did I do?
I've done nothing to anybody.
This, to me, makes sense.
As soon as Scientology
comes in on the scene,
they're attacking their most
loyal and dedicated members.
For questioning Scientology.
In Scientology, the minute
you question Scientology,
you become labeled an enemy.
You are considered to be
something to be destroyed.
You're going to get smeared.
So fascinating to hear how
quickly this technology
permeated the Nation of Islam.
Is there something in
the Nation of Islam
that tells you to do this?
Yes.
There's been a command that
came from a member of Minister
Farrakhan's personal staff.
He said that if anyone is
critical of Minister Farrakhan
to attack them like
a hornet's nest.
And this attack
like a hornet, this
is a new concept that didn't
exist before the engagement
with Scientology?
This is very, very, very new.
It was very recent, yeah.
Even in the mosque beforehand,
we always implored what they
call the atonement process.
Even if I offended you, we sat
down as brothers and sisters,
and we talked about
why I offended you.
Hey, brother, what you
said to me offended me.
Can you explain why
you said that?
Not trash you on a podcast.
No, not at all.
We always sat down.
That's why I went ahead
and called them,
because that's what we do.
We reach out, and we
talk to each other.
Whereas after the Scientology
infiltration, if you disagreed,
you got blocked.
You got deleted.
They stopped talking to you...
Very similar to as they would
in the Church of Scientology.
Right.
You know, you start to
be labeled an enemy.
You're told, hey, you better
stop talking about Scientology.
You're going to get
put out the mosque,
almost as if Dianetics is the
law now of Nation of Islam.
In Nation of Islam,
we have what's
called a restrictive law.
Restrictive law... no
fornicating, no lying,
no stealing, pretty much
like the 10 commandments,
to better explain it.
And if you violate those,
there's a certain time period,
if you're found guilty in
front of the leadership
of the mosque, that you're
given time out of the mosque
for violating those
restrictive laws.
So there is a due
process, if you would.
But now, once you start talking
about Scientology negatively,
you automatically are cast out.
All that is very odd.
Not to us.
Especially in our culture,
the Nation's culture.
Yes, see, for us, this
is every day for us.
Scientology is the antithesis
of bonding, and having loyalty,
and having true faith in God, in
any god, other than Scientology.
There is no faith.
There is no brotherhood in
Scientology or sisterhood.
There is none of that.
So we can all agree with that.
And that is going
to be attacked.
That will go away, as you
have seen so quickly, even
within your questioning
your own brothers
and sisters, how quickly
they turned on you.
That is a great example of the
technology of Scientology.
The one thing
that infuriates me
the most is you
find pictures of children in the
Nation holding Dianetics books.
We have children that
are in the Nation.
I don't want my children
studying Dianetics.
I don't want them
studying Scientology.
I don't want them to go through
any kind of disconnect
or any of that.
That's something that
I didn't come up in.
The way I came up was totally
different how things are now,
and that's the
future that I want
for my children and
all the children
in the Nation of Islam.
I don't want them growing up
learning about L. Ron Hubbard
and how he's an angel.
I don't want my children
exposed to those falsehoods.
And we see Nation
of Islam people
on John Travolta's jet going to
Haiti to make sure that they're
teaching the Haitian
children these things
and other communities
these things.
And that's what we're
trying to combat also.
We see Scientology being taught
in Ghana, this falsehood.
We see it being taught in Haiti.
Or they'll see the first
calamity that comes up,
and they use it as an
opportunity to exploit.
So it's many different levels
of what we're trying to combat.
That's why we say
that we understand
from the Scientology side of
this what they see to gain.
Yes.
It's this legitimizing
their ability
to reach into these communities
using the Nation of Islam.
And the Nation of Islam,
apparently, the leadership
is fully in, and the membership
appears to not understand
what's really going on.
How many members of the
Nation of Islam are there?
I would say, approximately
maybe 20,000.
20,000 on the roster.
Is that primarily in
the United States?
It's primarily in
the United States.
Yes.
So the organization and the
membership of this organization
is actually bigger
than Scientology
in the United States.
Absolutely.
As far as bodies, yes.
As far as bodies, yes.
And this is another
reason why Miscavige
and Scientology love this.
They spend $20 million
building an organization,
like the Ideal
Organization in Inglewood,
and it has, like,
10 people in it.
The Nation of Islam, if
they are on the ball
and with the program,
and Tony Mohamed
is telling them what to do, can
bring in 10 people like this.
What we're noticing
with Scientology
is that they're investing
millions and millions
of dollars into real estate
into our communities that
are traditionally
black communities.
They're investing in
Ideal Org in Atlanta.
They have one in
Harlem, New York.
They're going to be
moving into Detroit.
And they have one that's
in Inglewood, California.
So these are not
small investments.
They're investing big
money into something
that we have to be abreast of.
But recognize also,
Ismail, that money
is being invested in real estate
because of the tax-exempt
status.
Money that is invested in
purchasing real estate,
they get to keep.
That stays on the
books as an asset.
They could make inroads
into Inglewood, or Harlem,
or Detroit, or anywhere else
without spending $10 million
on a building.
In fact, I imagine that in
the minds of some people
in those communities,
they go, what
are these people doing here?
Why are they doing this?
As a matter of fact,
when we were spread out
to start to infiltrate, but in
my mind, I was there to help,
and we met with Chip Murray...
He's a leader of the community
at the First AME Church...
I went and asked
him, what can we do?
Thinking about opening up
a mission at the time.
It was my baby.
I wanted to open up a
mission in Inglewood.
And he said, if y'all want to
give us your drug programs,
we'd like that help.
So if they're such
a damn church,
why don't they just
go to the community?
Community answered
what we needed.
They were like, no, thanks.
But it's no different
in Harlem and Inglewood
than it is in Phoenix, Seattle,
Oslo, or anywhere else.
It's the same shtick.
It's the same stuff
that is being done,
the pretense of we're here
to help the community.
But really, what
we're doing is we're
just puffing up our
real estate portfolio
and pretending to
our Scientologists
that look how we're expanding.
Because Scientologists are
convinced that with the opening
of each one of these new
church organizations,
L. Ron Hubbard's technology is
spreading further and helping
more people in the world.
Literally, that is
what they believe.
Well, we're going
to meet somebody
who worked in the Inglewood
organization of Scientology.
And let's hear from
her what kind of help
Scientology was giving
to that community.
Tiponi Grey worked
at the Inglewood
Organization of Scientology.
Welcome.
Thank you for joining us.
I wanted so badly for this
Inglewood organization
to be there.
I was commended for it.
I have commendations from Tony
Muhammad and David Miscavige
for putting that there.
And now, I'm somebody
who is saying,
I wish I hadn't put it there.
My little mission and
community center
that I was going to open in
Inglewood through Scientology
became now a big
organization called
the Inglewood Organization.
In true Scientology fashion,
they turned what was coming
from my heart... because I
had to pay for the original
package of this mission
to open to this
big fancy organization...
That turned into something else,
which was for Scientology
to appear as though it was
serving the community
and then use me to promote
it as such and I did.
Inglewood Org is the
first of its kind
in that it is truly
for the community.
It's what LRH would want.
And to be able to see his dream
lived out in such a big way
just touches my heart,
because it really
is the first of its kind...
This org.
But how did you get involved?
How did you become an employee
of the Inglewood Organization?
Well, I was dating a guy,
and we had broke up.
And he told me to come
down to this place... he
didn't tell me where it was...
And to take a personality test.
And I took the test.
The missionary that tested
me, he was like, you know,
you're really good at this.
And he goes and he talks
to the other missionaries.
And he comes back and he said,
I want to offer you a job.
And I said, OK, you know,
because I wasn't working.
So I was like, OK.
I had heard about Scientology.
I had heard about
it for years on TV.
And I was interested in it.
I wanted to know everything
I could know about it.
And he told me, anything that
you want to learn in here,
you can learn it.
But you don't have
to pay for it.
That's basically how I got
started working there.
You said, prior to this,
you were interested.
I wouldn't know any
reason why you would be.
Yeah, well, it was basically
because of my spirituality.
I was trying to
grow spiritually.
And then they were telling me
all these levels, and these OT
levels and everything,
and they were saying
how I can grow spiritually.
So that was the main reason
why I did join them.
Now were you raised in
any type of religion?
Yes, Christianity.
And why were you seeking
to get away from that?
I had a lot of problems
with Christianity.
I used to get in trouble
with pastors and everything
because I always
asked questions.
And it was something
more I had to learn,
and I couldn't learn
it in a church.
So what did you learn
in Scientology
that gave you those answers
that you were seeking?
I didn't really learn
anything in Scientology.
They tell it to you like you're
going to reach this higher
level of consciousness.
It was a whole lie.
What were the
things that you saw
that started to open your eyes?
They were doing an event
for their anniversary.
And I was like, oh, well,
it's around Thanksgiving,
we can get turkeys.
And then they stopped me.
And I was like, well, if you're
going to help the community,
why not?
This is the perfect time.
And they were like,
no, we can't do that.
We don't have money for that.
I was like, you're
supposed to be helping.
And if we're going to do
this event, let's help.
And they were just like,
no, you don't understand.
You'll get it later.
You'll understand this.
So what were they doing as
far as community services?
Were they going out to
the public and saying,
we'd like to offer
you free lectures?
We'd like to offer
you some counseling.
We'd like to offer you...
They weren't doing that?
No.
The only thing that
they did was they
had people go out
and hand out flyers
and invite people to come and
take a free personality test.
Once somebody comes in
for a personality test,
the whole purpose of that is
to get people in, to get them
just buy Scientology courses.
Right, right, to be
calling yourself a church
and then demanding that the
public pay for all this help...
Pay for this book, pay for
that course, pay for this...
Is ridiculous.
I was like, you're not going to
get anybody in here like this.
Let's give them something.
And they just didn't
want to give anything.
Tiponi, you had the job
at some point of getting
people to come back who had
strayed or left the church
or whatever?
Yes, yes.
Tell us about that.
Why had they gone?
The majority of the
people that left
were saying that it was
not what they expected.
I mean, that's what
everybody said.
I would call them, and I would
try to get them to come in.
But they were like,
no, because they
told me they were going to do
this, and they didn't do that.
And they say they'd
help with this,
and you don't help with that.
And I was like, well, I'm not
the one, but we will come in,
we'll help you.
This was before I knew
exactly that they
weren't going to get the help.
And I'm telling
them, yes, you can.
And they were like,
no, you don't.
You don't know this.
They were schooling you, like,
you're obviously new there.
Yeah.
They're telling me,
no, you're not.
And I'm like, yes, you are.
People often ask us, you
knew you were lying, right?
Mike and I would go and promote
and get people in Scientology.
So why were you
perpetuating this,
knowing that you yourself went
for spiritual enlightenment,
and you weren't receiving it?
I guess I kept hoping that
I'm going to get there.
But I'm telling these people
that yeah, you'll get there,
but I haven't got there.
I started telling
people on the low,
I was like, OK, I'm not
agreeing with everything
that Scientology says.
But if you come in... you
know, I started giving them
that, because I was really
seeing that it wasn't what
they wanted.
It wasn't what I wanted.
Were people in the Ideal
Org of Inglewood?
It's a beautiful building.
It's beautiful inside, but
there's no people there.
In the daytime, there was
mostly about 10 people there.
But was that the staff?
Yeah.
And like three or four in the
classroom in the public class.
They have that site and
then they have another one.
- The community center.
- Yeah.
They had the community center.
And I went over there,
and it's abandoned.
It's nobody there.
And they have this big,
beautiful building,
so I'm like...
Doing nothing.
Open it to the homeless people.
Yes.
Why not open it
to the community?
Yes.
And I was like, this is a
shame that they spend all
this money for these buildings.
And they're calling
them these ideal places
and this org and this thing.
And there's nobody
coming because you
guys are lying to people.
Right, so continue to protect
yours, your families,
your friends, your kids.
Thank you again for giving
us the opportunity.
Yeah, thank you.
And just before we go, Mr.
Farrakhan,
you've mentioned me in
one of your speeches.
And I would like to
take this opportunity
to address some of the
questions that you have asked.
I know that this is the time
that they're making an all-out
move to destroy Scientology.
But what I ask Ms. Remy
or whatever her name is,
she's going in hard.
She's hurt by something.
I know a lot of Muslims that's
hurt, hurt because they came
in looking for
something, but didn't
necessarily find what they were
looking for and walk away.
And when you walked
away, where did you go?
What did you do?
How did you gain?
What did you lose?
No one's trying to take
Scientology down for reasons
that are unwarranted.
And once you are in Scientology,
for a good 35, 45 years,
maybe then ask these
kinds of questions.
And you should ask these
types of questions
to the families who have been
destroyed, who don't see
their sons and daughters,
because Scientology has
brainwashed them into believing
that they should not talk
to their own mother and
father, or that a mother
or father should disown
their own children because
of their beliefs in Scientology.
And so when you go to
sleep at night crying,
because you don't have your
daughter, or your son,
or your mom, or your
children have never
met your grandparents, because
they believe in Scientology
more than family,
that's when you
can start questioning
people and why
and how they have been hurt.
Because they have
been hurt deeply.
And also, Mr. Farrakhan, the
name is Leah "Re-mi-ni" Remini.
Thank you so much
for doing this.
Really, I so appreciate that.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, sweetheart.
Thank you so much
for being brave.
Yes.
I hear that.
I know, I should
have pushed more.
Thank you so much for
doing this, really,
I so appreciate it.