Kindred Spirits (2016–…): Season 3, Episode 7 - Dying Regrets - full transcript
Amy Bruni and Adam Berry investigate a Virginia plantation where an evil overseer who died after the Civil War has returned to strike fear into the living by seeking out the dead he once brutalized.
BRUNI:
Behind every plantation,
there is this
dark history.
- Nice?
- No.
MICHELLE: Not joking.
I am really terrified
of this place.
- That was a "Yeah."
- What?!
And right after the war,
in 1868, he did commit suicide.
Ho ho ho ho ho.
Something just
touched that bear.
What happened to you
after the Civil War?
Suicide.
[ Crows cawing ]
BRUNI: When the dead are
forgotten, they become restless.
Oh, my God!
You just touched me.
What? I did not touch you.
I'm Amy Bruni.
A haunting encounter
redefined my life.
I live with that experience
and seek answers to the unknown.
It says, "I am."
I'm Adam Berry.
At Gettysburg, the shadows
and screams of dead soldiers
turned me
into a supernatural believer.
Oh, my God.
Together, our investigations
bring peace to the living...
You can't scare us,
you can't deter us.
...by giving a voice
to the dead.
I'm going to ask you
one more time.
What is your name?
Because we believe the dead
and the living are all...
kindred spirits.
Kindred spirits.
♪♪
We're on our way to
Belle Grove Plantation.
BRUNI: Belle Grove Plantation
was built
between 1794 and 1797.
It is the birthplace
of the fourth President
of the United States,
James Madison,
and played a crucial role
in the Civil War.
Michelle, who we're meeting
with tonight,
lives at the plantation
with her husband.
They turned Belle Grove
into a bed-and-breakfast.
Michelle has called us
because even though
she believes
Belle Grove is haunted,
very recently,
she feels
as though the activity
has just gotten darker
and darker,
especially around
the caretaker's cottage.
Whatever is out there
is threatening her
and her guests.
This activity has gotten
to a point
that she wants
to burn it down.
You have to remember not only
is this their business,
but this is
where they live.
So it just makes the stakes
even higher for them
because not only are
they concerned for themselves,
but for their
potential guests.
She just wants to make
sure everyone is safe.
Absolutely.
♪♪
Plantations are beautiful.
I mean, look at this.
- Yeah.
But behind
every plantation,
there is this dark history
that could cause a haunting,
and I'm just wondering
what here has changed.
Well, hopefully
she's ready for us
'cause
we're ready for her.
Yeah, so, let's go in and see
what she has to say here.
♪♪
[ Knock on door ]
- Hey. How are you?
- Hi.
Good.
Good to see you.
♪♪
MICHELLE: There's a lot
that has happened.
BRUNI: Really? Just activity's
been getting crazier?
A lot.
Crazy.
- Okay.
- Okay.
Well, then, let's go.
Where should we go?
We're gonna go upstairs
to the Madison Room
and the Turner Room.
The Turner Room
is actually one
of the most haunted locations
in the house,
but I will tell you
that the Madison Room
has been
very active lately.
And we've actually had
quite a lot of activity
lately in
this particular room.
We also have a little
boy ghost named Jacob.
- Hmm.
- Okay.
He's very mischievous.
He likes to play
upstairs.
We'll hear balls
bouncing in the hallway.
Right in
between rooms, right?
- Right.
- What else happens in here?
One that we're getting a lot of
is the Lady in White.
She's been seen
several times in here.
Do you have any idea
who that Lady in White might be?
We think she may be
Carrie Turner.
This house used to belong
to the Turner family
from 1839 to 1894.
We actually have a photograph
of the Lady in White
sitting on this side
of the bed over here.
Hmm.
Would this have
been her room?
- Possibly.
- Okay.
That, or it would have been
her room across the hall.
All right.
♪♪
This is
the Turner Room.
Over in the window here,
there's actually
an etching.
This says, "Carrie Turner,
M. Van Den Burgh,
May 18th, 1869."
Wow!
So, Carrie Turner, who we think
is the Lady in White,
actually wrote her name
in the window.
So that kind of
gives me an idea
that she might be attached
to the house.
♪♪
This room, we do get
a lot of activity.
I have heard things.
I have
heard conversations.
It's just very active.
And it's not
just at nighttime.
It's all the time.
Wow.
And so that's new.
It has not always been
that active.
It's intensified probably
over the last two years.
- Okay.
- Okay.
What do you think was
the catalyst for that?
We've got a lot
more people coming,
and, you know, change
seems to stir things up.
Okay.
What should we
look at next?
Maybe we'll head
to the library.
♪♪
So, this is our library.
Oh, okay.
These are artifacts
that we have found
here on the property.
We find things
all the time,
and we have things
from almost every time period.
This is actually a piece
that we found.
This is a nail
that's been curled.
- That's really cool.
- Okay.
And what it is,
is it's a talisman.
And so the slaves that
came over from Africa,
they would bring
their religion with them.
Not Voodoo, but Hoodoo.
- Hmm.
And so this is a form
of Hoodoo.
They would create things
by curling the iron,
and it would
become a talisman
to keep evil spirits away.
You guys strongly believe
that that came from
the slaves that were here.
I actually had an archeologist
look at it,
and they helped me
by dating things.
So, do you think that
they had a reason
to believe they needed
to keep something evil out,
or is this just something
they did all the time?
I don't know.
That's interesting.
I've never seen
that before.
Mnh-mnh. Where was this
specifically found?
Over by
the caretaker's house,
where the actual
slave quarters was.
Where to next?
♪♪
So, we're gonna
go down here.
♪♪
This is
our Winter Kitchen,
and slaves would have
brought the food over.
They would heat it up here
to take up to the family.
We have a lot of activity
down here.
And what happens
down here?
I was actually loading stuff
in the dryer,
and all of a sudden, I heard
someone standing behind me
with a very deep, gruff voice,
and he muttered something.
Couldn't hear what
he was saying.
Wow.
Where do you feel, like,
most uncomfortable
on the property?
There's one place
that I will not go
because I have very
bad feelings around it.
It's the caretaker's
house.
The person
that's in the house
that has claimed
that space
can be threatening
at times.
I personally do not do
anything around it.
I try to stay away from it.
- Do you go in it?
No.
The one time I walked in,
I turned around
and walked right back out.
And I won't go back in.
- Okay.
So, do you want to show us
the caretaker's house?
Yes, but I am not
going inside.
♪♪
Well, I can see why
you think it's creepy.
I mean...
I think it was built sometime
between 1930 and 1940.
What's your plan
for this building, eventually?
We need to burn
the house down.
- Really? Get rid of it.
- Yeah.
So you feel that strongly
about it.
Yeah.
I'm not joking.
I am really terrified
of this place.
I do not like going inside
at all.
Okay.
When was the last time
someone lived in this house?
About four years ago.
And how did
they feel about it?
I know
they saw stuff here.
Has anything else
happened?
I've had people
that have gone inside,
and it said some really,
very nasty things.
It talks
about hurting people.
It talks about,
"Get out," "Run,"
"Push," "Death,"
"Hanging."
Anything to get people
out of the house.
Do you have any idea who or what
could be causing the activity?
We think he may be
an old overseer.
Hmm.
This 1856 map
that we have shows
that this is where
the slave quarters started,
and it ran all the way
down this way.
Oh!
What do you think initiated
the shift here,
where this became
kind of a negative space?
Change seems
to stir things up
because there's a lot
of construction stuff around.
Is there anything
that we could do or find out
that would help you
go into this building?
I would have to know
that it's completely clean.
That,
or who it is, yes.
Okay.
Honestly, it's just
very scary for me.
I know. I see it.
I see it in you.
- Yeah.
- I mean, I see it.
I can tell.
- Yeah.
What if we fix
whatever was here?
Would you go in it?
- I would try.
- Yeah.
This is as close
as I really want to get.
Okay, well, you don't
have to go any further.
I know you're planning
to go out of town.
Yes.
If we have any questions,
we'll call you up.
Okay, yeah.
Well, let's go get
our gear together.
- Yeah.
- All right.
BRUNI: Michelle is convinced
that the caretaker's cottage
is the center
of the dark activity,
but that doesn't explain
why she experiences activity
in the main house.
This could mean
the aggressive entity
is roaming the property.
We need to make sure
the activity in the main home
is safe for both
Michelle and her guests.
Tonight we will focus
on the Lady in White, Jacob,
and the slaves
that used to live here.
♪♪
What is that?
♪♪
♪♪
Is there a little boy in here
who likes to play?
Because we brought...
Something just touched
that bear.
♪♪
♪♪
BERRY: We are at the Belle
Grove Plantation,
where we just started
to investigate.
Michelle, the owner,
contacted us about a dark spirit
that has been threatening
her and her guests.
We just started
our investigation,
and something already
caught our attention.
♪♪
Hey, Amy?
- Yeah?
What are you looking at?
If you watch this right here
in this area...
Mm-hmm.
Oh.
- That came up.
That's in
the Winter Kitchen,
where the slaves
would have worked.
MICHELLE: I was actually loading
stuff in the dryer,
and all of a sudden,
I heard someone standing
behind me
with a very deep, gruff voice.
We should probably
check that out.
I'm gonna go get that
artifact --
the little -- the nail.
BERRY: The nail.
Mm-hmm.
BRUNI: We'll use the talisman
as a trigger object
because it was very important
to the slaves that lived here.
Not only did they make it,
but it was associated with
their religion and protection.
They might feel more
comfortable speaking
if it's in
the basement with us.
♪♪
Whoever's here with us,
who might have been a part
of this plantation in the past,
we found this nail
in the ground here,
and we think it might have had
some sort of
significance to you.
Feel free to get closer and look
at it and touch it, okay?
When you do, this will
sound a little alarm.
A proximity sensor is
a detection alarm
that is triggered
when something touches, moves,
or gets within six inches of
the object it's connected to.
Okay.
All right.
During this investigation,
I'll use a voice recorder
that captures
electronic voice phenomenon
that's often only audible
in playback.
We will also use an SLS camera,
which uses infrared light
to detect entities
and outlines them for us.
I know Michelle
introduced us earlier,
but my name is Amy,
and this is Adam.
Hi.
We're doing a lot of research
on the plantation
and people who lived here
and worked here.
It seems like
the Turner family
had a very long
history here.
Did you work
for the Turner family?
♪♪
Listen to it real quick.
- What?!
- That was a "Yeah."
That was a "Yeah."
Right?
I mean, that's a "Yeah."
Yeah,
they did something.
They're like, "Yes."
All right,
let's keep going.
Who is in the other house
now outside,
where the quarters
used to be?
♪♪
Can you tell me
your name?
♪♪
Would you ever
go out there?
Is there anyone here
we should be afraid of?
Let's listen to these.
Nothing.
We do know, though,
the people that are down here --
they clearly knew Turner.
They worked under Turner.
They said they did.
So, I feel like we just
keep asking questions,
or we go
in the other areas,
ask about the ghosts
that Michelle thinks are here,
and then ask about
these things again
and see if we get
any new information
and just keep digging,
keep investigating.
For sure.
Maybe if we go up
in the bedrooms,
we can investigate
the rooms
that we're gonna be
sleeping in tonight.
And then maybe whatever we do
will kind of rile things up.
- Yeah, for sure.
- All right, let's go upstairs.
♪♪
BRUNI: Should we bring
Boo Buddy just in case,
'cause there's kids,
supposedly?
BERRY:
Yes, 'cause there are kids.
Let's bring the Spirit Box.
BERRY: We're going upstairs to
investigate the spirits
that go back and forth between
the historic guest rooms.
We're going to use Boo Buddy
to dry to draw out
the child ghost
Michelle described.
If there is something up there,
we can try to speak with it
using the Spirit Box.
Okay.
So, this is
the Turner Room.
I am going to set up
Boo Buddy.
Boo Buddy is a piece
of equipment
that has pre-programmed phrases
specifically directed
towards children.
It also has additional equipment
inside that senses EMF,
changes in temperature
and motion triggered by spirits.
Why don't we start just trying
to talk to him,
and then we'll move on
to our other techniques?
Absolutely.
Is there a little boy in here
who likes to play?
Because we brought...
I like holding hands with you.
Something just touched
that bear.
♪♪
Does the person or people
that are in the house outs--
- Scary.
- Outside.
Should we worry about whoever
is in the house outside?
Go get him.
♪♪
BRUNI: We are investigating
in King George, Virginia,
at the Belle Grove Plantation.
We are in the main house,
trying to see
if this dark entity
is moving around the property.
Is there a little boy in here
who likes to play?
Because we brought...
I like holding hands with you.
Something just touched
that bear.
♪♪
Can you touch
that bear again?
Can you knock that bear
off the chair?
We heard sometimes
you like to knock things
off of tables.
That tickles.
It got touched again.
Yeah.
We'll go do
the Spirit Box session.
- Yeah, we can.
- Yeah. We should.
BRUNI: A Spirit Box is
an electronic device
that is used
to contact ghosts.
It allows spirits to use
radio frequencies
to communicate with us.
Adam is wearing
a blindfold and headphones,
so he can hear what messages
are being transmitted
without knowing
what questions I'm asking.
Unlike a digital voice recorder,
this is a real-time conversation
because the entity
can speak through Adam
like a speaker
to answer my questions.
So, this
is my friend Adam,
and we're gonna try to talk
to you using this little device.
Just answer the questions
that I ask,
and Adam might be able
to hear you
through those
headphones, okay?
Do you ever go
to the house outside?
♪♪
What is your name?
Adam.
♪♪
And how old are you?
Be careful.
♪♪
What should I
be careful of?
Does the person or people
that are in the house outs--
Scary.
Outside.
Do they ever come here?
Help.
Should we worry about
whoever is in the house
outside coming --
Go get him.
♪♪
Oh, my God.
That was really --
That was weird.
That's, like, the weirdest
one I've ever done.
- Why?
- I was just, like --
There came a point
when I was just --
I was so out of it.
You did say
some interesting things.
So, like, right off the bat,
I said, "What's your name?"
and you said, "Adam,"
which was strange.
Strange.
And that was
a weird, gravelly,
male, like, "Adam."
Like,
that kind of sound.
And then I said,
"How old are you?"
and you said,
"Be careful."
And I said,
"Be careful of what?"
And you said, "Help."
That "Help" was a child.
It was a small,
tiny voice.
Well, based on that and
the Boo Buddy getting touched,
I think Jacob
the child ghost is here.
Yeah, maybe
he's asking for help.
Maybe.
I said, "Do they ever come out
here into this house?"
and you said, "Help."
The second "Help"
sounded older female.
- Mm-hmm.
- Not the kids anymore.
Okay.
And then I started to ask
about the house outside.
And before I could even get
the question out,
you just said,
"Go get him."
What's interesting for me
is besides the first thing
saying "Adam," everything
was female or a little kid,
and it was
the same female voice.
And the little kid only came
through the one time.
And then the gravelly male voice
was right off the bat
and never was here again.
So, my theory is
they were talking
and they're telling us,
like, "Help."
And I feel like we just
dive further into it
and go investigate
the caretaker's house.
BERRY: Based on the conversation
in the main house,
we believe we've confirmed
the presence
of a negative entity
in the caretaker's cottage.
That could mean
that the entity out there
is not only haunting
the people of Belle Grove,
but also the other ghosts.
We've dealt with a lot
of angry spirits.
The first step is starting
a dialogue
and seeing if we can get
any information about
who is out there and why.
Okay.
So, go ahead.
- Y-- Me?
- Yeah.
BRUNI: Ohh.
♪♪
Oh, man.
♪♪
This place is a disaster.
♪♪
The thought of just
tearing down a building
because there's a ghost in it
just baffles me.
- Yeah, or setting it on fire.
- Yeah.
They're so scared
of what's in here.
That seems like
a logical solution to them.
- For her, it's the best option.
- Yeah.
What she doesn't realize
is this house isn't original.
So whatever's
in this house
could have came from whatever
was here beforehand.
Mm-hmm.
So it's just
gonna still be here.
I think we need to solve
the problem from the inside out.
Yeah.
♪♪
That one of us?
- I heard that.
- Yeah.
♪♪
Sounded like a male.
♪♪
So, whoever is in this house
who is non-living,
we came here
to visit you.
Are you up
for some visitors tonight?
♪♪
Seems like you're here
by yourself a lot.
Do you like it that way?
Are you in here?
You can -- If you come closer
to this little red light here
and you talk,
we can hear you.
What's your name?
♪♪
♪♪
Let's listen 'cause
there's something going on.
Oh, my God!
♪♪
And right after the war,
in 1868, he did commit suicide.
BRUNI: We're trying
to figure out
who's hiding in this building.
[ Indistinct voice ]
Oh, my God!
That's his name!
♪♪
BERRY: Amy and I
are investigating
the Belle Grove Plantation.
Does the person or people
that are in the house outs--
Scary.
Outside.
We are in
the caretaker's cottage.
The owner, Michelle,
is paralyzed with fear
by whatever is in here and wants
to burn it to the ground.
Did he say, "**** you"?
He said, "**** you."
That was
a really warm welcome.
We literally
just walked in here.
So, the way you were just
speaking to us,
it sounds like you were using
some vulgar language.
So, if you're gonna try to
make us leave,
you'll probably
have to do something
a little more impressive.
- So...
- Right over me.
Yeah.
They called us here
because we talk
to a lot
of people like you.
And even though
you're angry,
we're still not
gonna judge you,
and we're still not
gonna be mean back.
Can you tell us your name,
at least?
Here.
Let's listen.
BRUNI: So, the way you were
just speaking to us,
it sounds like you were using
some vulgar language.
Even though you're angry,
we're still not gonna
judge you,
and we're still not
gonna be mean back.
BERRY: Can you tell us
your name, at least?
♪♪
Nothing.
Well, I think we need
to regroup.
Yeah,
let's call it a night.
That was intense.
By nature, like,
that kind of person
isn't gonna volunteer
a lot of information.
♪♪
BERRY: During last night's
investigation,
we made two discoveries.
The ghosts haunting
the main house
are scared of whatever is
in the caretaker's cottage.
And whatever's out there isn't
gonna talk to us willingly.
Today we are going to focus
on research
and see if we can get
any leads into who is out there
and why they are
so angry and aggressive.
BRUNI: Do you want
to look at some
of the census
records and things
and see if we can figure out
some names to use tonight?
Yeah, I mean, let's --
please.
I mean, I feel like
the history here
is so in-depth that we need
a direction to go in.
And right now --
Just to start, you know?
Right. I mean, she gave us
a lot of names.
Yeah.
But I feel like it would be
helpful if we had some
of just, like, maybe some of
the workers and everything.
- Yeah.
- So let me just bring it up.
Let's start
with the Turners.
They were the last family
here to own slaves.
Census records.
Here's the Turners.
BERRY: Mm-hmm.
We have
Carolinus Turner.
This is their census.
This says "farmer."
That says...
Does that say "overseer"?
We think he may be
an old overseer.
Okay, so,
here's a Baldwin Lee.
Mm-hmm.
It looks like he was
the overseer here.
And this was in 1850.
But, like, all the documentation
relating to it
is at the Library
of Virginia.
Okay.
We can actually look
at physical copies of this
if we go to the library
and they can pull them for us
so we can figure out
what happened here.
♪♪
BERRY: We've reached out
to Dr. Gregg D. Kimball,
Director of Public
Services and Outreach
at the Library of Virginia.
He pulled documents
about Baldwin Lee
and his connection
to Belle Grove plantation.
GREGG: I have some
original documents
for you to look at.
BRUNI: Oh, thank you so much
for pulling this stuff for us.
It sounds like there's a lot
going on at this plantation.
There certainly is.
The Turners were such a huge
part of the plantation,
and it sounds like they had --
their overseer at the time
was Baldwin Lee.
It seems like he worked here
for a long time.
Correct.
So, what did we find as far
as what his history
was with the plantation?
Just --
Just the raw numbers.
He just appears in the census
as an overseer,
except for that he did
commit suicide in 1868.
So, there's this little blurb,
and it says, "Mr. Baldwin Lee,
an upright
and respected citizen,
committed suicide at his home
one day last week
by cutting his throat
with a razor."
Like, that's pretty
extreme, isn't it?
- Yeah.
- And that's right after the war.
Yeah, I mean, the Southern
economy has largely collapsed.
I mean, obviously, the system
you once worked under is gone.
Did he leave the property?
I don't think he did.
He was, like,
on the plantation.
I don't know that we know
whether he's still working
for the Turners.
I mean, I'm not --
I don't want to speculate,
but it seems like he didn't know
what to do with himself anymore.
He lost a lot.
What was his job?
As an overseer,
there's really not a lot
we can say about
how he conducted himself.
I mean, the nature of the job
was forcing people to work.
He was essentially
a slave driver.
Mm-hmm.
One can imagine there's still
a range of violence
one would use there.
All of those
are open questions.
And it's certainly possible here
there's more to know.
- Yeah.
- Sure.
BERRY: We now know
Lee killed himself.
So he was obviously
a very troubled man.
If he is in the cottage,
we need to learn more
about what kind of person
we're dealing with.
We called in Rita Wagstaff,
a professor of
African American Studies.
She can tell us more about
his role as an overseer.
BRUNI:
I mean, being here now,
it looks so different
from how it did.
And so we're trying
to just understand
what life was like.
Where we're standing, like,
slave quarters
started about here
and extended this way.
And at one point, I think
they had 192 slaves...
Wow!
...at one point
on this property,
the Turner family.
There was an overseer,
who I guess --
did he manage?
What was his job?
The overseer was the white man
on the plantation
who was in charge
of working the slaves.
Would the overseer ever do
any kind of punishing,
or was he just
in charge of --
Yeah, he would do punishing,
as well.
He would do it, as well.
Okay.
Slaves would be whipped, beat.
Some would be killed.
Who's gonna stop them?
- That's right.
- That's true.
I mean, God.
Hmm.
God, it's so hard
to fathom,
but we can't
forget about it.
Now, what's strange here
is that the overseer
we've been kind
of delving into here
just makes me wonder
what kind of person he was.
And it's complete
speculation.
We can't find any records
of him.
He ended up
killing himself.
- Oh, my goodness.
- And so...
All the ones I know about
were just malicious people.
Okay.
BERRY: If Baldwin Lee is
in the caretaker's cottage,
it would explain why we were met
with anger and aggression.
His job was to control
and punish people,
but it doesn't explain
why he's here.
Now that we have a name,
we'll try and engage
the foul-mouth entity to see
if it's actually
the overseer Baldwin.
♪♪
BRUNI: All right.
This little silver box
that I have in my hand --
I know
it might seem strange,
but this can
actually hear you.
So go ahead and say
your name as loud
as you can towards
this little red light.
♪♪
Nothing we've brought here
will hurt you.
We are not here to cause
any harm to anybody.
We're just here trying
to figure out
who's hiding
in this building.
Can you tell me
what family you work for?
♪♪
All right.
[ Indistinct voice ]
- What was that?
- I heard a name.
Oh, my God!
That's his name!
That's his name again.
- Baldwin!
- Baldwin!
♪♪
BRUNI: What happened to you
after the Civil War?
...where you always lived
until the end?
♪♪
BERRY: We are investigating
the caretaker's cottage,
the place Michelle, the owner,
is terrified to enter.
We need to figure out
if Baldwin Lee,
the dead overseer, is here,
or if it's someone else.
And we think we've just
got our answer.
- Baldwin!
- Baldwin!
BERRY: We don't know
what your name is.
I mean, that's clear.
BRUNI: Can you tell me what
family you worked for?
- Turner.
- Oh, my God!
Are you kidding me
right now?
- Does that really say "Turner"?
- Yes!
- I got to come over there.
- It says "Turner."
Listen.
Turner.
Baldwin --
He's in this building.
Now we have to get him
to talk to us more.
All right.
Baldwin, what happened to you
after the Civil War?
♪♪
Was this where you always
lived until the end?
Did something bad
happen to you?
♪♪
Have you ever tried
to leave?
♪♪
Did someone stop you
from leaving?
♪♪
All right, let's see what
you had to say, Mr. Baldwin.
Yes.
BRUNI: Have you ever
tried to leave?
- Oh, my God.
- There's something --
Hold on.
Suicide.
Suicide.
Did someone stop you
from leaving?
♪♪
I mean,
from what we know,
we know
the Turners were here.
Mm-hmm.
The fact that we know
the research, I mean,
it's saying it to us
in our face right now --
is incredible.
He said his name.
He said, "Turner."
He said, "Suicide."
We know those three things.
He's here.
It's insane.
What's also crazy, and
I hate talking about it
because I know
that he's listening --
Can we talk about this
outside for a minute?
I'm serious.
- Yeah.
- I don't want to talk in here.
- Yeah, I do, too.
♪♪
What's happened here
is we've established trust
with someone who probably
isn't a very good guy.
- No.
- What he did was unthinkable.
But at the same time,
we have to carry on this
conversation.
Well, right.
Right.
Like, there's a moral
dilemma here.
Do we speak
to him on the truth
and risk him shutting down
and not speaking to us again
and not getting anywhere?
Exactly.
And he did it to himself.
Did he do it out of guilt?
- We don't know that yet.
Do we know
what his motivation is?
- I mean...
- It's so tough.
We have to keep him
talking to us...
Mm-hmm.
...so that he will tell us
this information,
rather than shutting him off
and alienating him.
Yeah,
let's just try to --
Try to go and, like,
just do this.
Yeah.
BRUNI: We are talking to a guy
who beat people for a living.
It is going to be tough
being polite to him.
But we have a job to do.
We need to figure out why
Baldwin Lee is here,
and in the process of getting
answers from Michelle,
maybe we can figure out
why he won't leave.
Baldwin, thank you
for talking to us.
Is there a reason why you
were so forthcoming
with that information?
♪♪
Are you regretful?
♪♪
Can you help us understand
the work that you did here?
♪♪
We want
to understand you.
He says, "Regretful."
♪♪
We would love for you
to go out to that house
and just have a little
conversation with Mr. Lee.
This has to be something
between he and I by ourselves.
♪♪
BRUNI: We are in
the caretaker's cottage.
We've just discovered that
the menacing ghost
torturing Michelle
and her guests
is an angry overseer
by the name of Baldwin Lee.
He took his own life in 1868,
but we still don't know
why he is here.
Yeah.
BRUNI: Is there a reason
that you...
I've got
the shivers all over.
BERRY:
Can you help us understand
the work that you do here?
I think he might
be done talking.
It's hard to be that nice
to someone.
Yeah.
Mr. Lee, we're gonna go
and give you some space.
♪♪
Um...
Okay, so, I think...
- Yeah.
...he thinks it's bad.
Mm-hmm.
Whatever was bad to him
that he did to himself,
he --
that, to me, is regret.
Yeah.
And you know sometimes
when we meet people like this
that have done these things,
they -- they can change.
- Right.
- Like, their thing --
their being in the afterlife
sort of changes who they are.
Right.
BERRY: We have shocking
information to tell Michelle,
and we're not sure
how she's going to handle it.
- Hey, guys.
- Hey.
- How's it going?
- Good.
BRUNI:
Welcome back to your home.
Thank you.
Well, so, first of all,
I just wanted to say
that we really enjoyed
spending a few days here
because it's a very
comfortable place.
Like, we never, at any point,
felt threatened
or uncomfortable.
I think that it's safe to say
for your guests
and everything that the place
is a wonderful environment.
It's beautiful.
- Thank you.
So, what we really focused on
was we really wanted
to find out what was going on
in the cottage
just because that seemed
to be the area
where you were
the most concerned.
Right away, he was pretty direct
about having us in there
and how he felt about it.
Saying, "'F' you."
- Yes.
- You did hear that.
- Okay, twice.
- Okay.
- Twice in a row.
- Twice in a row.
Within seconds of us
trying to talk to him.
So, the first thing this guy
is saying to us is intense.
He doesn't want anything
to do with us.
We're just like, "Okay,
let's figure this out."
So, we kind of came back at him.
These are the responses.
Did you hear "Baldwin"?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.
So, what do you know
about Baldwin?
- "Baldwin" was Baldwin Lee.
- Mm-hmm.
He was one of the last overseers
at Belle Grove.
We asked him at one point,
you know,
"What happened to you?"
- "Did something bad happen?"
"Did something bad happen
to you?"
And he answers.
Have you ever tried to leave?
Suicide.
Yeah.
He committed suicide
by slitting his own throat
with a straight razor.
- Ooh!
Yeah, it's more graphic
than you could
possibly imagine.
And so we feel like
what happened
is he's such
a conflicted character
because he's someone
that we hate what he did,
and we're not justifying
any of it.
He seems very conflicted.
But what we think happened --
where he's come back here
is like --
almost like a self-imposed
sentence.
Like, we find this sometimes.
For him, we suspect
he's very regretful
and that he is not
going to leave
because he doesn't feel like
he deserves to move on.
So, that being said,
what we would love
for you to do,
and we will go with you --
is we would love for you
to go out to the house
and just have a little
conversation with Mr. Lee.
How do you feel about it?
- Nervous.
- I know.
We just know
if you talk to him,
you actually might start feeling
more comfortable in that space,
enough to do something with it.
It's just -- It's like you guys
have to kind of work together.
- I could try.
- Okay, let's try it.
BERRY: Plantations are
inherently violent places
and stand for a time
we can't forget.
- Are you ready?
- I think so.
All right, let's do this.
BERRY: But Belle Grove
is not a dark place now.
And even though we don't agree
with who Baldwin was
and what he did,
we can't change history.
But we can help the living.
BRUNI:
All right, deep breath.
Here we go.
Good?
Come on in
between us.
That way...
Just be careful.
Mr. Lee.
Amy and Adam
are back with Michelle.
Baldwin, this is Michelle.
You're okay.
You got this.
♪♪
No.
- No?
- No.
- Okay.
- I'm sorry.
- No, no, you're good.
- It's okay. It's all right.
- You're good.
BERRY:
It's one step at a time.
♪♪
- I know.
- What are you feeling?
This has to be something
between he and I by ourselves.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
Sometimes it's not a matter
of just an overnight resolution.
Mm-hmm.
And that I feel like
is what's happening here.
- Yeah.
- It'll happen. Just not now.
- It's okay.
- It's okay.
- You're good.
- You didn't --
You're standing on the porch,
and you went inside.
We're proud of you.
BRUNI: This particular case was
so much harder than most for us.
It's not always easy separating
our personal feelings
from the evidence.
BERRY: Honestly, that was
a great first step.
The relationship between
Michelle and Baldwin
has always been based on fear,
but maybe Baldwin is somehow
trying to atone
for the sins
he committed in his life.
Our hope is one day
this will allow Michelle
to stand up to him and feel safe
in the caretaker's cottage.
Behind every plantation,
there is this
dark history.
- Nice?
- No.
MICHELLE: Not joking.
I am really terrified
of this place.
- That was a "Yeah."
- What?!
And right after the war,
in 1868, he did commit suicide.
Ho ho ho ho ho.
Something just
touched that bear.
What happened to you
after the Civil War?
Suicide.
[ Crows cawing ]
BRUNI: When the dead are
forgotten, they become restless.
Oh, my God!
You just touched me.
What? I did not touch you.
I'm Amy Bruni.
A haunting encounter
redefined my life.
I live with that experience
and seek answers to the unknown.
It says, "I am."
I'm Adam Berry.
At Gettysburg, the shadows
and screams of dead soldiers
turned me
into a supernatural believer.
Oh, my God.
Together, our investigations
bring peace to the living...
You can't scare us,
you can't deter us.
...by giving a voice
to the dead.
I'm going to ask you
one more time.
What is your name?
Because we believe the dead
and the living are all...
kindred spirits.
Kindred spirits.
♪♪
We're on our way to
Belle Grove Plantation.
BRUNI: Belle Grove Plantation
was built
between 1794 and 1797.
It is the birthplace
of the fourth President
of the United States,
James Madison,
and played a crucial role
in the Civil War.
Michelle, who we're meeting
with tonight,
lives at the plantation
with her husband.
They turned Belle Grove
into a bed-and-breakfast.
Michelle has called us
because even though
she believes
Belle Grove is haunted,
very recently,
she feels
as though the activity
has just gotten darker
and darker,
especially around
the caretaker's cottage.
Whatever is out there
is threatening her
and her guests.
This activity has gotten
to a point
that she wants
to burn it down.
You have to remember not only
is this their business,
but this is
where they live.
So it just makes the stakes
even higher for them
because not only are
they concerned for themselves,
but for their
potential guests.
She just wants to make
sure everyone is safe.
Absolutely.
♪♪
Plantations are beautiful.
I mean, look at this.
- Yeah.
But behind
every plantation,
there is this dark history
that could cause a haunting,
and I'm just wondering
what here has changed.
Well, hopefully
she's ready for us
'cause
we're ready for her.
Yeah, so, let's go in and see
what she has to say here.
♪♪
[ Knock on door ]
- Hey. How are you?
- Hi.
Good.
Good to see you.
♪♪
MICHELLE: There's a lot
that has happened.
BRUNI: Really? Just activity's
been getting crazier?
A lot.
Crazy.
- Okay.
- Okay.
Well, then, let's go.
Where should we go?
We're gonna go upstairs
to the Madison Room
and the Turner Room.
The Turner Room
is actually one
of the most haunted locations
in the house,
but I will tell you
that the Madison Room
has been
very active lately.
And we've actually had
quite a lot of activity
lately in
this particular room.
We also have a little
boy ghost named Jacob.
- Hmm.
- Okay.
He's very mischievous.
He likes to play
upstairs.
We'll hear balls
bouncing in the hallway.
Right in
between rooms, right?
- Right.
- What else happens in here?
One that we're getting a lot of
is the Lady in White.
She's been seen
several times in here.
Do you have any idea
who that Lady in White might be?
We think she may be
Carrie Turner.
This house used to belong
to the Turner family
from 1839 to 1894.
We actually have a photograph
of the Lady in White
sitting on this side
of the bed over here.
Hmm.
Would this have
been her room?
- Possibly.
- Okay.
That, or it would have been
her room across the hall.
All right.
♪♪
This is
the Turner Room.
Over in the window here,
there's actually
an etching.
This says, "Carrie Turner,
M. Van Den Burgh,
May 18th, 1869."
Wow!
So, Carrie Turner, who we think
is the Lady in White,
actually wrote her name
in the window.
So that kind of
gives me an idea
that she might be attached
to the house.
♪♪
This room, we do get
a lot of activity.
I have heard things.
I have
heard conversations.
It's just very active.
And it's not
just at nighttime.
It's all the time.
Wow.
And so that's new.
It has not always been
that active.
It's intensified probably
over the last two years.
- Okay.
- Okay.
What do you think was
the catalyst for that?
We've got a lot
more people coming,
and, you know, change
seems to stir things up.
Okay.
What should we
look at next?
Maybe we'll head
to the library.
♪♪
So, this is our library.
Oh, okay.
These are artifacts
that we have found
here on the property.
We find things
all the time,
and we have things
from almost every time period.
This is actually a piece
that we found.
This is a nail
that's been curled.
- That's really cool.
- Okay.
And what it is,
is it's a talisman.
And so the slaves that
came over from Africa,
they would bring
their religion with them.
Not Voodoo, but Hoodoo.
- Hmm.
And so this is a form
of Hoodoo.
They would create things
by curling the iron,
and it would
become a talisman
to keep evil spirits away.
You guys strongly believe
that that came from
the slaves that were here.
I actually had an archeologist
look at it,
and they helped me
by dating things.
So, do you think that
they had a reason
to believe they needed
to keep something evil out,
or is this just something
they did all the time?
I don't know.
That's interesting.
I've never seen
that before.
Mnh-mnh. Where was this
specifically found?
Over by
the caretaker's house,
where the actual
slave quarters was.
Where to next?
♪♪
So, we're gonna
go down here.
♪♪
This is
our Winter Kitchen,
and slaves would have
brought the food over.
They would heat it up here
to take up to the family.
We have a lot of activity
down here.
And what happens
down here?
I was actually loading stuff
in the dryer,
and all of a sudden, I heard
someone standing behind me
with a very deep, gruff voice,
and he muttered something.
Couldn't hear what
he was saying.
Wow.
Where do you feel, like,
most uncomfortable
on the property?
There's one place
that I will not go
because I have very
bad feelings around it.
It's the caretaker's
house.
The person
that's in the house
that has claimed
that space
can be threatening
at times.
I personally do not do
anything around it.
I try to stay away from it.
- Do you go in it?
No.
The one time I walked in,
I turned around
and walked right back out.
And I won't go back in.
- Okay.
So, do you want to show us
the caretaker's house?
Yes, but I am not
going inside.
♪♪
Well, I can see why
you think it's creepy.
I mean...
I think it was built sometime
between 1930 and 1940.
What's your plan
for this building, eventually?
We need to burn
the house down.
- Really? Get rid of it.
- Yeah.
So you feel that strongly
about it.
Yeah.
I'm not joking.
I am really terrified
of this place.
I do not like going inside
at all.
Okay.
When was the last time
someone lived in this house?
About four years ago.
And how did
they feel about it?
I know
they saw stuff here.
Has anything else
happened?
I've had people
that have gone inside,
and it said some really,
very nasty things.
It talks
about hurting people.
It talks about,
"Get out," "Run,"
"Push," "Death,"
"Hanging."
Anything to get people
out of the house.
Do you have any idea who or what
could be causing the activity?
We think he may be
an old overseer.
Hmm.
This 1856 map
that we have shows
that this is where
the slave quarters started,
and it ran all the way
down this way.
Oh!
What do you think initiated
the shift here,
where this became
kind of a negative space?
Change seems
to stir things up
because there's a lot
of construction stuff around.
Is there anything
that we could do or find out
that would help you
go into this building?
I would have to know
that it's completely clean.
That,
or who it is, yes.
Okay.
Honestly, it's just
very scary for me.
I know. I see it.
I see it in you.
- Yeah.
- I mean, I see it.
I can tell.
- Yeah.
What if we fix
whatever was here?
Would you go in it?
- I would try.
- Yeah.
This is as close
as I really want to get.
Okay, well, you don't
have to go any further.
I know you're planning
to go out of town.
Yes.
If we have any questions,
we'll call you up.
Okay, yeah.
Well, let's go get
our gear together.
- Yeah.
- All right.
BRUNI: Michelle is convinced
that the caretaker's cottage
is the center
of the dark activity,
but that doesn't explain
why she experiences activity
in the main house.
This could mean
the aggressive entity
is roaming the property.
We need to make sure
the activity in the main home
is safe for both
Michelle and her guests.
Tonight we will focus
on the Lady in White, Jacob,
and the slaves
that used to live here.
♪♪
What is that?
♪♪
♪♪
Is there a little boy in here
who likes to play?
Because we brought...
Something just touched
that bear.
♪♪
♪♪
BERRY: We are at the Belle
Grove Plantation,
where we just started
to investigate.
Michelle, the owner,
contacted us about a dark spirit
that has been threatening
her and her guests.
We just started
our investigation,
and something already
caught our attention.
♪♪
Hey, Amy?
- Yeah?
What are you looking at?
If you watch this right here
in this area...
Mm-hmm.
Oh.
- That came up.
That's in
the Winter Kitchen,
where the slaves
would have worked.
MICHELLE: I was actually loading
stuff in the dryer,
and all of a sudden,
I heard someone standing
behind me
with a very deep, gruff voice.
We should probably
check that out.
I'm gonna go get that
artifact --
the little -- the nail.
BERRY: The nail.
Mm-hmm.
BRUNI: We'll use the talisman
as a trigger object
because it was very important
to the slaves that lived here.
Not only did they make it,
but it was associated with
their religion and protection.
They might feel more
comfortable speaking
if it's in
the basement with us.
♪♪
Whoever's here with us,
who might have been a part
of this plantation in the past,
we found this nail
in the ground here,
and we think it might have had
some sort of
significance to you.
Feel free to get closer and look
at it and touch it, okay?
When you do, this will
sound a little alarm.
A proximity sensor is
a detection alarm
that is triggered
when something touches, moves,
or gets within six inches of
the object it's connected to.
Okay.
All right.
During this investigation,
I'll use a voice recorder
that captures
electronic voice phenomenon
that's often only audible
in playback.
We will also use an SLS camera,
which uses infrared light
to detect entities
and outlines them for us.
I know Michelle
introduced us earlier,
but my name is Amy,
and this is Adam.
Hi.
We're doing a lot of research
on the plantation
and people who lived here
and worked here.
It seems like
the Turner family
had a very long
history here.
Did you work
for the Turner family?
♪♪
Listen to it real quick.
- What?!
- That was a "Yeah."
That was a "Yeah."
Right?
I mean, that's a "Yeah."
Yeah,
they did something.
They're like, "Yes."
All right,
let's keep going.
Who is in the other house
now outside,
where the quarters
used to be?
♪♪
Can you tell me
your name?
♪♪
Would you ever
go out there?
Is there anyone here
we should be afraid of?
Let's listen to these.
Nothing.
We do know, though,
the people that are down here --
they clearly knew Turner.
They worked under Turner.
They said they did.
So, I feel like we just
keep asking questions,
or we go
in the other areas,
ask about the ghosts
that Michelle thinks are here,
and then ask about
these things again
and see if we get
any new information
and just keep digging,
keep investigating.
For sure.
Maybe if we go up
in the bedrooms,
we can investigate
the rooms
that we're gonna be
sleeping in tonight.
And then maybe whatever we do
will kind of rile things up.
- Yeah, for sure.
- All right, let's go upstairs.
♪♪
BRUNI: Should we bring
Boo Buddy just in case,
'cause there's kids,
supposedly?
BERRY:
Yes, 'cause there are kids.
Let's bring the Spirit Box.
BERRY: We're going upstairs to
investigate the spirits
that go back and forth between
the historic guest rooms.
We're going to use Boo Buddy
to dry to draw out
the child ghost
Michelle described.
If there is something up there,
we can try to speak with it
using the Spirit Box.
Okay.
So, this is
the Turner Room.
I am going to set up
Boo Buddy.
Boo Buddy is a piece
of equipment
that has pre-programmed phrases
specifically directed
towards children.
It also has additional equipment
inside that senses EMF,
changes in temperature
and motion triggered by spirits.
Why don't we start just trying
to talk to him,
and then we'll move on
to our other techniques?
Absolutely.
Is there a little boy in here
who likes to play?
Because we brought...
I like holding hands with you.
Something just touched
that bear.
♪♪
Does the person or people
that are in the house outs--
- Scary.
- Outside.
Should we worry about whoever
is in the house outside?
Go get him.
♪♪
BRUNI: We are investigating
in King George, Virginia,
at the Belle Grove Plantation.
We are in the main house,
trying to see
if this dark entity
is moving around the property.
Is there a little boy in here
who likes to play?
Because we brought...
I like holding hands with you.
Something just touched
that bear.
♪♪
Can you touch
that bear again?
Can you knock that bear
off the chair?
We heard sometimes
you like to knock things
off of tables.
That tickles.
It got touched again.
Yeah.
We'll go do
the Spirit Box session.
- Yeah, we can.
- Yeah. We should.
BRUNI: A Spirit Box is
an electronic device
that is used
to contact ghosts.
It allows spirits to use
radio frequencies
to communicate with us.
Adam is wearing
a blindfold and headphones,
so he can hear what messages
are being transmitted
without knowing
what questions I'm asking.
Unlike a digital voice recorder,
this is a real-time conversation
because the entity
can speak through Adam
like a speaker
to answer my questions.
So, this
is my friend Adam,
and we're gonna try to talk
to you using this little device.
Just answer the questions
that I ask,
and Adam might be able
to hear you
through those
headphones, okay?
Do you ever go
to the house outside?
♪♪
What is your name?
Adam.
♪♪
And how old are you?
Be careful.
♪♪
What should I
be careful of?
Does the person or people
that are in the house outs--
Scary.
Outside.
Do they ever come here?
Help.
Should we worry about
whoever is in the house
outside coming --
Go get him.
♪♪
Oh, my God.
That was really --
That was weird.
That's, like, the weirdest
one I've ever done.
- Why?
- I was just, like --
There came a point
when I was just --
I was so out of it.
You did say
some interesting things.
So, like, right off the bat,
I said, "What's your name?"
and you said, "Adam,"
which was strange.
Strange.
And that was
a weird, gravelly,
male, like, "Adam."
Like,
that kind of sound.
And then I said,
"How old are you?"
and you said,
"Be careful."
And I said,
"Be careful of what?"
And you said, "Help."
That "Help" was a child.
It was a small,
tiny voice.
Well, based on that and
the Boo Buddy getting touched,
I think Jacob
the child ghost is here.
Yeah, maybe
he's asking for help.
Maybe.
I said, "Do they ever come out
here into this house?"
and you said, "Help."
The second "Help"
sounded older female.
- Mm-hmm.
- Not the kids anymore.
Okay.
And then I started to ask
about the house outside.
And before I could even get
the question out,
you just said,
"Go get him."
What's interesting for me
is besides the first thing
saying "Adam," everything
was female or a little kid,
and it was
the same female voice.
And the little kid only came
through the one time.
And then the gravelly male voice
was right off the bat
and never was here again.
So, my theory is
they were talking
and they're telling us,
like, "Help."
And I feel like we just
dive further into it
and go investigate
the caretaker's house.
BERRY: Based on the conversation
in the main house,
we believe we've confirmed
the presence
of a negative entity
in the caretaker's cottage.
That could mean
that the entity out there
is not only haunting
the people of Belle Grove,
but also the other ghosts.
We've dealt with a lot
of angry spirits.
The first step is starting
a dialogue
and seeing if we can get
any information about
who is out there and why.
Okay.
So, go ahead.
- Y-- Me?
- Yeah.
BRUNI: Ohh.
♪♪
Oh, man.
♪♪
This place is a disaster.
♪♪
The thought of just
tearing down a building
because there's a ghost in it
just baffles me.
- Yeah, or setting it on fire.
- Yeah.
They're so scared
of what's in here.
That seems like
a logical solution to them.
- For her, it's the best option.
- Yeah.
What she doesn't realize
is this house isn't original.
So whatever's
in this house
could have came from whatever
was here beforehand.
Mm-hmm.
So it's just
gonna still be here.
I think we need to solve
the problem from the inside out.
Yeah.
♪♪
That one of us?
- I heard that.
- Yeah.
♪♪
Sounded like a male.
♪♪
So, whoever is in this house
who is non-living,
we came here
to visit you.
Are you up
for some visitors tonight?
♪♪
Seems like you're here
by yourself a lot.
Do you like it that way?
Are you in here?
You can -- If you come closer
to this little red light here
and you talk,
we can hear you.
What's your name?
♪♪
♪♪
Let's listen 'cause
there's something going on.
Oh, my God!
♪♪
And right after the war,
in 1868, he did commit suicide.
BRUNI: We're trying
to figure out
who's hiding in this building.
[ Indistinct voice ]
Oh, my God!
That's his name!
♪♪
BERRY: Amy and I
are investigating
the Belle Grove Plantation.
Does the person or people
that are in the house outs--
Scary.
Outside.
We are in
the caretaker's cottage.
The owner, Michelle,
is paralyzed with fear
by whatever is in here and wants
to burn it to the ground.
Did he say, "**** you"?
He said, "**** you."
That was
a really warm welcome.
We literally
just walked in here.
So, the way you were just
speaking to us,
it sounds like you were using
some vulgar language.
So, if you're gonna try to
make us leave,
you'll probably
have to do something
a little more impressive.
- So...
- Right over me.
Yeah.
They called us here
because we talk
to a lot
of people like you.
And even though
you're angry,
we're still not
gonna judge you,
and we're still not
gonna be mean back.
Can you tell us your name,
at least?
Here.
Let's listen.
BRUNI: So, the way you were
just speaking to us,
it sounds like you were using
some vulgar language.
Even though you're angry,
we're still not gonna
judge you,
and we're still not
gonna be mean back.
BERRY: Can you tell us
your name, at least?
♪♪
Nothing.
Well, I think we need
to regroup.
Yeah,
let's call it a night.
That was intense.
By nature, like,
that kind of person
isn't gonna volunteer
a lot of information.
♪♪
BERRY: During last night's
investigation,
we made two discoveries.
The ghosts haunting
the main house
are scared of whatever is
in the caretaker's cottage.
And whatever's out there isn't
gonna talk to us willingly.
Today we are going to focus
on research
and see if we can get
any leads into who is out there
and why they are
so angry and aggressive.
BRUNI: Do you want
to look at some
of the census
records and things
and see if we can figure out
some names to use tonight?
Yeah, I mean, let's --
please.
I mean, I feel like
the history here
is so in-depth that we need
a direction to go in.
And right now --
Just to start, you know?
Right. I mean, she gave us
a lot of names.
Yeah.
But I feel like it would be
helpful if we had some
of just, like, maybe some of
the workers and everything.
- Yeah.
- So let me just bring it up.
Let's start
with the Turners.
They were the last family
here to own slaves.
Census records.
Here's the Turners.
BERRY: Mm-hmm.
We have
Carolinus Turner.
This is their census.
This says "farmer."
That says...
Does that say "overseer"?
We think he may be
an old overseer.
Okay, so,
here's a Baldwin Lee.
Mm-hmm.
It looks like he was
the overseer here.
And this was in 1850.
But, like, all the documentation
relating to it
is at the Library
of Virginia.
Okay.
We can actually look
at physical copies of this
if we go to the library
and they can pull them for us
so we can figure out
what happened here.
♪♪
BERRY: We've reached out
to Dr. Gregg D. Kimball,
Director of Public
Services and Outreach
at the Library of Virginia.
He pulled documents
about Baldwin Lee
and his connection
to Belle Grove plantation.
GREGG: I have some
original documents
for you to look at.
BRUNI: Oh, thank you so much
for pulling this stuff for us.
It sounds like there's a lot
going on at this plantation.
There certainly is.
The Turners were such a huge
part of the plantation,
and it sounds like they had --
their overseer at the time
was Baldwin Lee.
It seems like he worked here
for a long time.
Correct.
So, what did we find as far
as what his history
was with the plantation?
Just --
Just the raw numbers.
He just appears in the census
as an overseer,
except for that he did
commit suicide in 1868.
So, there's this little blurb,
and it says, "Mr. Baldwin Lee,
an upright
and respected citizen,
committed suicide at his home
one day last week
by cutting his throat
with a razor."
Like, that's pretty
extreme, isn't it?
- Yeah.
- And that's right after the war.
Yeah, I mean, the Southern
economy has largely collapsed.
I mean, obviously, the system
you once worked under is gone.
Did he leave the property?
I don't think he did.
He was, like,
on the plantation.
I don't know that we know
whether he's still working
for the Turners.
I mean, I'm not --
I don't want to speculate,
but it seems like he didn't know
what to do with himself anymore.
He lost a lot.
What was his job?
As an overseer,
there's really not a lot
we can say about
how he conducted himself.
I mean, the nature of the job
was forcing people to work.
He was essentially
a slave driver.
Mm-hmm.
One can imagine there's still
a range of violence
one would use there.
All of those
are open questions.
And it's certainly possible here
there's more to know.
- Yeah.
- Sure.
BERRY: We now know
Lee killed himself.
So he was obviously
a very troubled man.
If he is in the cottage,
we need to learn more
about what kind of person
we're dealing with.
We called in Rita Wagstaff,
a professor of
African American Studies.
She can tell us more about
his role as an overseer.
BRUNI:
I mean, being here now,
it looks so different
from how it did.
And so we're trying
to just understand
what life was like.
Where we're standing, like,
slave quarters
started about here
and extended this way.
And at one point, I think
they had 192 slaves...
Wow!
...at one point
on this property,
the Turner family.
There was an overseer,
who I guess --
did he manage?
What was his job?
The overseer was the white man
on the plantation
who was in charge
of working the slaves.
Would the overseer ever do
any kind of punishing,
or was he just
in charge of --
Yeah, he would do punishing,
as well.
He would do it, as well.
Okay.
Slaves would be whipped, beat.
Some would be killed.
Who's gonna stop them?
- That's right.
- That's true.
I mean, God.
Hmm.
God, it's so hard
to fathom,
but we can't
forget about it.
Now, what's strange here
is that the overseer
we've been kind
of delving into here
just makes me wonder
what kind of person he was.
And it's complete
speculation.
We can't find any records
of him.
He ended up
killing himself.
- Oh, my goodness.
- And so...
All the ones I know about
were just malicious people.
Okay.
BERRY: If Baldwin Lee is
in the caretaker's cottage,
it would explain why we were met
with anger and aggression.
His job was to control
and punish people,
but it doesn't explain
why he's here.
Now that we have a name,
we'll try and engage
the foul-mouth entity to see
if it's actually
the overseer Baldwin.
♪♪
BRUNI: All right.
This little silver box
that I have in my hand --
I know
it might seem strange,
but this can
actually hear you.
So go ahead and say
your name as loud
as you can towards
this little red light.
♪♪
Nothing we've brought here
will hurt you.
We are not here to cause
any harm to anybody.
We're just here trying
to figure out
who's hiding
in this building.
Can you tell me
what family you work for?
♪♪
All right.
[ Indistinct voice ]
- What was that?
- I heard a name.
Oh, my God!
That's his name!
That's his name again.
- Baldwin!
- Baldwin!
♪♪
BRUNI: What happened to you
after the Civil War?
...where you always lived
until the end?
♪♪
BERRY: We are investigating
the caretaker's cottage,
the place Michelle, the owner,
is terrified to enter.
We need to figure out
if Baldwin Lee,
the dead overseer, is here,
or if it's someone else.
And we think we've just
got our answer.
- Baldwin!
- Baldwin!
BERRY: We don't know
what your name is.
I mean, that's clear.
BRUNI: Can you tell me what
family you worked for?
- Turner.
- Oh, my God!
Are you kidding me
right now?
- Does that really say "Turner"?
- Yes!
- I got to come over there.
- It says "Turner."
Listen.
Turner.
Baldwin --
He's in this building.
Now we have to get him
to talk to us more.
All right.
Baldwin, what happened to you
after the Civil War?
♪♪
Was this where you always
lived until the end?
Did something bad
happen to you?
♪♪
Have you ever tried
to leave?
♪♪
Did someone stop you
from leaving?
♪♪
All right, let's see what
you had to say, Mr. Baldwin.
Yes.
BRUNI: Have you ever
tried to leave?
- Oh, my God.
- There's something --
Hold on.
Suicide.
Suicide.
Did someone stop you
from leaving?
♪♪
I mean,
from what we know,
we know
the Turners were here.
Mm-hmm.
The fact that we know
the research, I mean,
it's saying it to us
in our face right now --
is incredible.
He said his name.
He said, "Turner."
He said, "Suicide."
We know those three things.
He's here.
It's insane.
What's also crazy, and
I hate talking about it
because I know
that he's listening --
Can we talk about this
outside for a minute?
I'm serious.
- Yeah.
- I don't want to talk in here.
- Yeah, I do, too.
♪♪
What's happened here
is we've established trust
with someone who probably
isn't a very good guy.
- No.
- What he did was unthinkable.
But at the same time,
we have to carry on this
conversation.
Well, right.
Right.
Like, there's a moral
dilemma here.
Do we speak
to him on the truth
and risk him shutting down
and not speaking to us again
and not getting anywhere?
Exactly.
And he did it to himself.
Did he do it out of guilt?
- We don't know that yet.
Do we know
what his motivation is?
- I mean...
- It's so tough.
We have to keep him
talking to us...
Mm-hmm.
...so that he will tell us
this information,
rather than shutting him off
and alienating him.
Yeah,
let's just try to --
Try to go and, like,
just do this.
Yeah.
BRUNI: We are talking to a guy
who beat people for a living.
It is going to be tough
being polite to him.
But we have a job to do.
We need to figure out why
Baldwin Lee is here,
and in the process of getting
answers from Michelle,
maybe we can figure out
why he won't leave.
Baldwin, thank you
for talking to us.
Is there a reason why you
were so forthcoming
with that information?
♪♪
Are you regretful?
♪♪
Can you help us understand
the work that you did here?
♪♪
We want
to understand you.
He says, "Regretful."
♪♪
We would love for you
to go out to that house
and just have a little
conversation with Mr. Lee.
This has to be something
between he and I by ourselves.
♪♪
BRUNI: We are in
the caretaker's cottage.
We've just discovered that
the menacing ghost
torturing Michelle
and her guests
is an angry overseer
by the name of Baldwin Lee.
He took his own life in 1868,
but we still don't know
why he is here.
Yeah.
BRUNI: Is there a reason
that you...
I've got
the shivers all over.
BERRY:
Can you help us understand
the work that you do here?
I think he might
be done talking.
It's hard to be that nice
to someone.
Yeah.
Mr. Lee, we're gonna go
and give you some space.
♪♪
Um...
Okay, so, I think...
- Yeah.
...he thinks it's bad.
Mm-hmm.
Whatever was bad to him
that he did to himself,
he --
that, to me, is regret.
Yeah.
And you know sometimes
when we meet people like this
that have done these things,
they -- they can change.
- Right.
- Like, their thing --
their being in the afterlife
sort of changes who they are.
Right.
BERRY: We have shocking
information to tell Michelle,
and we're not sure
how she's going to handle it.
- Hey, guys.
- Hey.
- How's it going?
- Good.
BRUNI:
Welcome back to your home.
Thank you.
Well, so, first of all,
I just wanted to say
that we really enjoyed
spending a few days here
because it's a very
comfortable place.
Like, we never, at any point,
felt threatened
or uncomfortable.
I think that it's safe to say
for your guests
and everything that the place
is a wonderful environment.
It's beautiful.
- Thank you.
So, what we really focused on
was we really wanted
to find out what was going on
in the cottage
just because that seemed
to be the area
where you were
the most concerned.
Right away, he was pretty direct
about having us in there
and how he felt about it.
Saying, "'F' you."
- Yes.
- You did hear that.
- Okay, twice.
- Okay.
- Twice in a row.
- Twice in a row.
Within seconds of us
trying to talk to him.
So, the first thing this guy
is saying to us is intense.
He doesn't want anything
to do with us.
We're just like, "Okay,
let's figure this out."
So, we kind of came back at him.
These are the responses.
Did you hear "Baldwin"?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Yeah.
So, what do you know
about Baldwin?
- "Baldwin" was Baldwin Lee.
- Mm-hmm.
He was one of the last overseers
at Belle Grove.
We asked him at one point,
you know,
"What happened to you?"
- "Did something bad happen?"
"Did something bad happen
to you?"
And he answers.
Have you ever tried to leave?
Suicide.
Yeah.
He committed suicide
by slitting his own throat
with a straight razor.
- Ooh!
Yeah, it's more graphic
than you could
possibly imagine.
And so we feel like
what happened
is he's such
a conflicted character
because he's someone
that we hate what he did,
and we're not justifying
any of it.
He seems very conflicted.
But what we think happened --
where he's come back here
is like --
almost like a self-imposed
sentence.
Like, we find this sometimes.
For him, we suspect
he's very regretful
and that he is not
going to leave
because he doesn't feel like
he deserves to move on.
So, that being said,
what we would love
for you to do,
and we will go with you --
is we would love for you
to go out to the house
and just have a little
conversation with Mr. Lee.
How do you feel about it?
- Nervous.
- I know.
We just know
if you talk to him,
you actually might start feeling
more comfortable in that space,
enough to do something with it.
It's just -- It's like you guys
have to kind of work together.
- I could try.
- Okay, let's try it.
BERRY: Plantations are
inherently violent places
and stand for a time
we can't forget.
- Are you ready?
- I think so.
All right, let's do this.
BERRY: But Belle Grove
is not a dark place now.
And even though we don't agree
with who Baldwin was
and what he did,
we can't change history.
But we can help the living.
BRUNI:
All right, deep breath.
Here we go.
Good?
Come on in
between us.
That way...
Just be careful.
Mr. Lee.
Amy and Adam
are back with Michelle.
Baldwin, this is Michelle.
You're okay.
You got this.
♪♪
No.
- No?
- No.
- Okay.
- I'm sorry.
- No, no, you're good.
- It's okay. It's all right.
- You're good.
BERRY:
It's one step at a time.
♪♪
- I know.
- What are you feeling?
This has to be something
between he and I by ourselves.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
Sometimes it's not a matter
of just an overnight resolution.
Mm-hmm.
And that I feel like
is what's happening here.
- Yeah.
- It'll happen. Just not now.
- It's okay.
- It's okay.
- You're good.
- You didn't --
You're standing on the porch,
and you went inside.
We're proud of you.
BRUNI: This particular case was
so much harder than most for us.
It's not always easy separating
our personal feelings
from the evidence.
BERRY: Honestly, that was
a great first step.
The relationship between
Michelle and Baldwin
has always been based on fear,
but maybe Baldwin is somehow
trying to atone
for the sins
he committed in his life.
Our hope is one day
this will allow Michelle
to stand up to him and feel safe
in the caretaker's cottage.