The Vow (2020–…): Season 2, Episode 3 - Stimulus and Response - full transcript

Keith Raniere has done
something that has never been

documented before in the
history of psychology

or any of the information
on human potential.

He has quantified the
structure of emotions,

the nature of emotions,

and how human
beings either limit

or empower themselves,
with their emotions.

In ESP,

we taught something
called "state control."

A series of events
happen, we make a meaning,

and based on that meaning, we
have an emotional reaction,



which means we're choosing
the emotional reaction

based on the meaning.

Right? We may not be
aware we're choosing it,

but we are actually choosing it.

And we do exercises with people
so that they begin to gain

a feeling of control
over those choices.

So, if something happens,

and I have an
impulse to be angry,

I can act on that
impulse and yell at you

and scream at you,

or I can have the impulse
and choose not to indulge it.

So I can choose to
bring up a state.

I can be sitting here like
this right now and I can say,

"I am so mad, I can't stand it!
This is not acceptable to me!"



Or not.

♪ (EERIE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

♪ ("DREAM STATE" FT. BONNIE
PIESSE BY SON LUX PLAYING) ♪

♪ Days we were young ♪

♪ We took photographs Of
everything we could see ♪

♪ We had to run from it ♪

♪ Priest and prophetess We
were nothing we would defy ♪

♪ Oh ♪

♪ Invisible skin Where
is the world within? ♪

♪ Invincible skin It's
how we all begin ♪

♪ ("DREAM STATE" CONCLUDES) ♪

♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

The trial against
alleged cult leader,

Keith Raniere, entering
its second week today.

Raniere is facing a
number of charges,

including sex trafficking
and racketeering.

Uh, you know, it's
hard to process this.

I think it takes a long time,
and I haven't had therapy.

I have thought that
it would give me a way

of just talking it all through.

These are all Keith.

He didn't want us to throw
away anything he ever wrote.

When we were creating
the intensive...

he would draw these on
the floor of my house.

"A causes B in the
past, event B, event A.

Uh, the future.

So we have nothing to
do with past events."

I don't know what he
was trying to say,

but we laminated it.

Twenty years is right here.
Twenty years of curriculum.

If you represent this as you...

would you say

that there is what we'll
call "optimal you"?

Or optimal...

The idea was that he had
this very special skill

to create behavior change.

It wasn't a science,

but he wanted to
make it a science.

So it had to be reproducible,

verifiable, consistent,
and measurable.

By the way, I am doing this
completely extemporaneously.

I'm imagining...

But it wasn't like he
had the technology done.

He had an idea.

And then he had a
bunch of concepts.

And he started teaching
me parts of it.

This is Keith and
Nancy, and it's 6:02 am.

So, tell me, what
is responsibility?

Okay, uh, responsibility is...

This is pretty simple and easy.

Yeah, it's... It's the
causes and the effects.

Uh, your... your participation
in the causes and the effects.

Yeah. So that's some...
Something you can affect.

Mm-hmm.

He thought we were only
going to need 20 modules.

I wrote 2000 modules by
the time ESP was done.

They were Keith's concepts,
and I codified them.

When I was first starting out
in my professional career,

I began to really
think about this thing,

the mind-body connection.

The more I learned, the more
I realized that I didn't know.

I was always fascinated
by how much we could do

using our mind over our body.

Did you ever hear a story
about a 110-pound woman

who picked up a 4000-pound car

because she thought her
baby was underneath it?

Human beings have
incredible resources

and we can produce
unprecedented results

under the right set
of circumstances.

I always wanted to
know what the limits

of our model was.

I wanted to work
with chronic pain.

I wanted to work
with eating dis...

I wanted to work with
a number of things.

Keith, he said before we work
with people with disorders,

I want us to work
with healthy people

who just want to change
patterns of behavior

that limit them.

But people would come who
would have certain disorders

and they would say,
"Will this help this?"

And then Marc Elliot showed up.

I started ticcing when
I was five years old.

Started with eye blinking.

In high school, my
Tourette's got way worse.

The way that I would describe
it is that there's an itch

and there's a scratch.

So Tourette syndrome,
in my opinion,

is that very uncomfortable itch.

I won't tic.

And then the tic

is actually someone
scratching that itch.

It's not like I'm
possessed by the devil,

and... and...

something's moving my
mouth. I was moving it.

It's just very hard
not to scratch it.

I tried all sorts of
different treatments.

I tried neuroleptic drugs,

like very serious
anti-psychotic drugs

which the side effects of,
I mean, you're so lethargic,

you're so sleepy,

it's almost like
you're a zombie.

And it finally got to
the point that I decided,

forget medication, I'm
just gonna live my life.

I wasn't waiting for the cure.

In fact, it was the
direct opposite.

Because I can't stop this.

The best path for me
to have a better life,

is to then get the whole
world to accept me.

I have Tourette's by the way,

just gonna throw
that out there, okay?

People look at me and
make a lot of assumptions

about who I am as a person.

I was 24 years old,

speaking about
compassion and tolerance.

It was a dream come
true externally.

But internally, the thing
that I didn't have was peace.

And then I learned about ESP.

And this is what's
most important.

I did not go for Tourette's.

It wasn't even an iota
of a thought in my mind

about somehow this training
could affect my Tourette's.

- Hey, everybody.
- Stay standing.

- Hello.
- How are you all?

Nancy comes in and she
picks me to be the demo

of the fear sourcing.

A fear sourcing is going back
to the root of your fear.

You had an experience
at some time,

and you didn't know how
to make sense of it,

and you became fearful.

You have to think about

what fear do you
want to work on.

And I don't know
why, but I decided

that maybe I'm afraid
of losing Tourette's.

Six days earlier, if you
would have come up to me

and said like, "Hey, you know,

you might be afraid
of losing Tourette's,"

I literally would've punched
you or said, "Fuck you."

But we explored the fear,

and it wasn't that I was
afraid of losing Tourette's,

I was just afraid of not
being special anymore.

I just had such a
fundamental shift of...

I'm not seeing myself as
a victim to this thing.

What if you could figure
out what's causing the itch?

Which is a completely
different paradigm.

The more that you can really
get to the root of that,

what I found was, my
itch started to go down.

I remember being in
a train station...

and I walk into the middle
and I just stood there.

I literally was
like everyone else.

And I had never had
that in my entire life.

Now is the moment
where we introduce

an amazing man.

He has inspired thousands
of people. Marc Elliot!

Whoo!

Thank you!

Living with Tourette syndrome,

I really had the chance
to see what is it like

to be so different
than everyone else.

But in 2010, I met
an American scientist

and philosopher, his
name is Keith Raniere,

and he actually
created the courses

that provided the tools

that helped me
beat my Tourette's.

Nothing like this
has ever been done

in history that I know of.

And now I've been like this,

um, for about the
last four years.

You know, that's why
I'm... I'm so grateful

to Keith and to
Nancy and to NXIVM.

It's not because
I'm... I'm some...

I had this indoctrination.
I've had a horrible 20 years.

You know, what do you...

How do you feel
towards the person

that literally gave you an
opportunity and the tools

to craft an existence that
you couldn't even dream of?

♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

When I did the Tourette's work,

I think I may have learned
more than anything else I did.

So, this is Marc, and
Marc's volunteered

to demonstrate
anger for us today.

So this is what I'm
going to ask you to do.

When Marc first came to ESP,

I studied him the whole week.

He would think in his mind,

"What is the worst
possible thing

that I could say?"

So, like, when he first met me,

he said, "Bitch! Bitch!
Bitch! Bitch! Bitch!"

And when we first met
Clare Bronfman, he said,

"Rich! Rich! Rich! Rich! Rich!"

Clare paid for the research,
but it was Marc's idea

to work with other
Tourette's people.

- Hello.
- Hi.

Hi, I'm Nancy. I'm Nancy.

- Hey.
- It's nice to meet you.

When I started working with
people who had Tourette's,

I never researched
much about Tourette's.

And the reason was I didn't
want to prejudice myself.

I had one 20-minute
conversation with Keith

about how I was gonna
work with people.

And he said to me,
"You use every tool

you have ever learned.

Don't hold back."

Do you have any
concerns about today?

Concerns?

Um... Well, I mean, the
other day I was thinking

that it, you know,
might not work.

- Is that your concern?
- Yeah.

- So...
- So you have...

So...

I wanna see what the outcome is.

- Uh, I can try my hardest.
- The whole part of outcomes is

you can't figure
out what they are

until you go through
the process, right?

Right, yeah.

Okay, so you were thinking
it might not work...

I work with a number
of different things,

but mainly beliefs.

So I give them a belief in
the mind-body connection

and what is actually possible.

I'm gonna do something, uh...

like an exploration with you.

It's called an
exploration of meaning.

So I'm going to ask you what
you mean by certain things

because a lot of times,

if there's an
inconsistency in meaning,

it causes...

the issues that limit us.

So what I'm gonna
do is try to help...

In ESP, the thing
that we did very well,

was we could take a
stimulus and a response

and disconnect them.

Like, for instance, have
you ever had an experience

of hearing a tone in
your mother's voice

and knowing that
you were in trouble?

And then whenever you hear
that tone in someone's voice,

you go into a panic.

If you can disconnect
the trigger,

you know, to your issue,

then you would
not do it anymore,

and then you would
forget you ever did it.

So the way that I
handled Tourette's was,

I found out what...
What the impulse was

and then I would disconnect
the stimulus and responses

until, you know,
there was control.

When you say, "It feels
like I need to blink,"

- what do you mean?
- When...

when my eyes get
dry, and I blink,

it's not like a different
feeling than that.

It's not? But then
sometimes you really...

Yeah. How do you
know when to do that?

Now, you said you had
this feeling here.

How does it feel now?

It's... I can feel it,
but it's not as strong.

There isn't the urge to
tic... There is, but...

I can control it.

Huh! I didn't even notice that.

I still feel the urges but...

- Less so?
- Very much less.

We can do more work.

But that was very
good for today.

That's incredible.

I really did not think that
was going to work at all.

We have these amazing results.

But there's still
this feeling of,

well, you guys don't
have any credentials.

When conventional
solutions don't work,

maybe the unconventional
way of thinking does.

It is certainly not
double-blind tested.

But the truth of the matter is,

sometimes you want to go
to something that's unique.

It was so tangible,
it was so palpable,

these results.

It's not a question of,
"Can we help people?"

It's literally, we know that
when we give the green light

to someone, you no longer will
be dealing with Tourette's.

I'm just trying to think if
we can just cut for this,

I don't know if it's best if...

I mean, I can talk... I
mean, Isabella is... um...

I just think that, you know,

the people that...

uh, that we helped
with Tourette syndrome,

you know, if they...

you know, if they want to
speak publicly about, you know,

their experience with us,
you know, that's up to them.

♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

Some people thought

the study would be the
saving grace of the company

because it showed this
amazing transformation.

Everyone in NXIVM is having
this much of an extreme change,

but you can't see it physically.

And I think this made
it much more obvious

that they had profound tools.

Oh!

My arms are just
like this every time.

Like I hit myself and
I have to punch myself.

Since I was six or seven.

It was just very
hard with Tourette's.

Partly because there was
a lot of OCD involved too.

Well, my OCD makes me

toss a plate up and down,
even with food on it.

Any urge you could imagine.

Yelling, screaming,

hitting myself,
hitting other things.

She has some of the worst
tics I've ever seen.

If there's one thing
that I could give kids

who have tics, it
would be resilience.

You know what that means?

The ability to say, "Yeah,
you know, my tics are tough,

but I'm not going to
let them stop me."

I have that.

You do have that,
I could tell that.

Growing up in general, I
think I had a lot of hope.

Honestly, I assumed that
I would wake up one day

and it would just be gone.

- You love me.
- Thank you.

You really love me.

Thank you so much...

Towards my last year of college,

it started to get
very bad again.

At that point, I think we
would have done anything.

- Hi.

- Hi, Nancy.
- Isabella.

Nice to meet you.

Do you have any fear?

- Not getting rid of it...
- About losing it?

- No. That's all I ever wanted.
- No? Okay.

Marc is the first person...

Nancy talked with me and my mom,

and then went downstairs
and we did our first EM.

There's so much going on
that I can't do things

and tic at the same
time. So when I can,

I try to finish the
tics, and I sometimes,

I try to tic and do the
things I need to for this job

at the same time,
but it doesn't work.

So I'll spend hours
trying to finish one tic

that I started
three hours before.

You have to finish the tic.

Yeah, they don't
just happen for me...

It was about day three,

I had the initial
perceptual shift.

And we looked back to the
first time I remember,

like, really ticcing.

I was in third grade, and
I had to clear my throat.

So I did.

Then I kept having to clear it.

The awareness, the
shift was that...

"What if I had that feeling

and I chose to
respond that way?"

Whereas someone else may
have had that feeling,

said, "Oh, that's a feeling."
And went about their day.

What if bodies
are uncomfortable?

And that's what I did.

But what if I didn't
have to, though?

It made Tourette's a...

a choice.

It just... It had
never occurred to me.

It wasn't something
that I ever realized...

could have been...

true. It's just, like,
it changed everything.

I always felt that...

I always felt that my body
betrayed me when I was seven

and I never forgave it.

But I realized it might
have been my mind.

I feel more in charge.

And I still am
feeling the urges,

but they seem to
be less intense.

Yeah, and I talked with my dad
last night for like 20 minutes.

He called my mom, he
said, "It was really great

having such a fluid
conversation with her.

No freezing, no
stopping in the talking,

no... none of that."

On a scale of one to ten,
my OCD was definitely...

ten.

Or 12. Not 11. Even numbers.

Sorry. And now...

It's a, uh, maybe a one or two.

A lot better.

Probably a one.

'Cause, you know, it
doesn't need to be even.

Once in a while,
I'll do another tic.

but not consistently enough
to say that I do those tics.

And I don't think I
would feel comfortable

telling anyone from now
on that I have Tourette's.

♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

I was super grateful to Nancy.

I was so happy.

Like, it changed
my life. It did.

Like, I'm always going to
be so grateful for that.

I mean, that has nothing
to do with why I left.

A secret group
stirring up controversy

here in the Capitol Region.

The report out today says
that some female members

have been branded with
the founder's initials.

There are things going
on that are much more

dangerous than I imagined.

Like I knew some shady
things were going on,

but I also had justified it.

Hey, Isabella, it's me, um,

just checking in with you. I
wanted to see if you're okay,

and when you're coming back?

Okay, so they actually
do sound worried.

Fuck!

Hey, Isabella,

we haven't heard from you,

and Justin and Marc
were looking for you.

So, getting a little
worried about you.

And I didn't...
I didn't respond,

and someone else
texted me something.

"Hey, can you chat?"

Hi, I'm sorry.

It's been a kind
of a crazy week.

Sounds like.

I heard you ran out in
the middle of the night.

I got some information that
I didn't think was good.

I didn't think...

I'm just evaluating some things,

and I didn't think Albany
was the best place to do it.

Isabella, who do you
think... what do you...

Who do you think I am?
What do you think I do?

I... I love you, Marc,
I love you so much.

It has nothing to do with...

It has everything to
do with it, darling.

I don't know what...
What happened?

I'm so sad.

No, I'm sad, too. I just...
I got information...

I don't know what you...

Some women decided to do a
brand as a way to fucking bond.

No, no, no, no, no.

- Women were told...
- Do you think...

that they were going
to get a tattoo,

and it was not an informed...

Okay, what if that's not true?

What if it is?

If that was true, Isabella,

that's called illegal.

That's called assault.

Yeah, I know.

That's why I don't
think it's good.

That's why I'm choosing to
not be in Albany right now.

I don't think you understand
what you're doing.

What am I doing?

Believing people...

that I don't think are
being very honest with you.

And there's nothing I can do.

Other than that I
just feel really sad.

Marc, I'm really sad.

But it might be also helpful
to look at who you're believing

that may not be honest with you.

You know, you have to decide

who you want to trust.

Nancy and myself, we were
able to do things for you

that in your entire life
nobody could help you with.

Now, you're just sitting there
saying that you can't trust me.

Marc, I'm not saying
that I can't trust you.

Yes, you are. You're
trusting people

who are doing
destructive things.

You realize this might
affect the Tourette's?

My Tourette's? Or
yours or the study?

Helping people with Tourette.

Well...

There's gonna be a day

when you realize this
stuff isn't true, Isabella.

Marc, I pray to God,
I wish it wasn't true.

I really do.

I'm telling you
right now, Isabella.

It's not true.

I am going to keep helping
people get over Tourette's.

You know we have the best
results in the world.

I'm gonna hop off, and it's
not a personal offence,

like, I don't mean
it to be that way.

I care a lot about everyone.

It has nothing to
do with the people.

It's just... It's not...

Things haven't been handled
well, I don't think.

- Okay, I'll see you.
- Bye, Marc.

- Be well, Isabella.
- Love you.

- What?
- Mm.

Mm, it's so good to see you.

I brought wine and Oreos.

You're the best

I've been getting calls and
like, Marc can intellect.

Like, you know, people
can intellect things.

- I've known Marc since 2004.
- Yeah.

I knew him when he had
full-blown Tourette's.

Before I resigned, I was talking
to Marc, and I said, "Okay,

under what circumstances
would you leave ESP?

Well, what if Keith
was convicted of...

embezzling money?"

And he said, "Let the
courts decide that."

I was like, "Okay,

what if he was found
guilty of rape?"

And he said, "I'm curing...

Tourette's.

I'm changing people's lives.

I will never leave ESP."

♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

I just think Keith's a pioneer.

I think he has an
incredible mind

and capacity to help people.

A lot of times people will
say, "Well, Marc, you know,

why don't you just go break off,

and why don't you just
go do your own thing,

and why don't you just go help
other people with Tourette's?"

And it's just not that simple.

Because of now how everything
is equated to being a sex cult,

anything I do in the
world moving forward,

they're going to attack me.

Because I'm unwilling to disavow
my friend, Keith Raniere.

I will always be a hated figure.

- Hey!
- Hi, how's it going?

I believe that that the only
way that I foresee at the moment

to be able to help people
Tourette's in the future,

is I have to expose
this injustice.

An inmate at a federal prison.

Raniere.

Hey, Keith.

We're going to do
everything we can.

Hello.

How are you?

Good, how are you? I'm Nancy.

Hi, Nancy. Pleasure
to meet you.

I'm really happy that,
um... that I'm...

having an opportunity
to speak to you.

My cat is... Come
here, Mouse. Come here.

Your cat's name is Mouse?

Yes, wait. You
have to see him.

- Hairless cat.
- Yes, he's really sweet.

I think he's trying to be here
with me during... during this.

Have you had any support at all?

No, nothing, no
professional support.

What's your perception right
now of what you went through?

Um. Keith was...

Well, in the
beginning, he was kind.

But he got more and more
and more controlling

as time went on.

But I don't think I ever
thought about leaving.

I... I just thought...

he was difficult.

I think it's important
for people to,

when they look back and
deconstruct their...

This experience,

if you can think of like your
life in three identities.

There's the identity before,

where there was something
lacking in your life.

So then identity number two
is you get almost intoxicated

with this feeling, like,
"I found this great thing,"

and you get the
whole camaraderie

and the community

and all of that and
it feels really good.

And then when that world
crumbles like it has for you,

who am I now?

But you can get there by
looking at your first identity.

And try to get at why
were you vulnerable

to these kinds of
control tactics?

♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

When Keith left the country,

I started waking
up in the morning

feeling peaceful.

And I would think to myself,
"What is wrong with you?"

You have this wonderful life
that he helped you create.

Like, what is wrong with you?

Mic.

So, I have someone who is...

in the external world,

it would look like telling
me something I already know.

I can... I can...

Um. In the future,
it might be good

if I'm speaking, let me speak.

And then... No, no. And
then say that afterwards.

Um...

In any situation, you can learn.

I was terrified of Keith.

Whenever I was in a
meeting with other people,

he acted like I wasn't there.

He would correct me
whenever I said anything.

He purposely disempowered me.

So when he was around,
I never opened my mouth.

But I always wanted
his approval.

He got me into a...

You know, like, a reenactment

of trying to get
approval from my mother.

When I was six years old,
my teacher called a meeting

and she told my mother
that I was dyslexic.

And I thought it was something
I should be ashamed of.

I didn't do well in school
in my early years and...

my mom used to call
me her "little dummy."

♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

She used to say, "If they
gave As for people loving you,

Nancy would get an A every
time. Everyone loves Nancy."

So I was always
wanting to do things

that would make her
feel happy with me.

And I grew up and I just
accommodated everybody

because I wanted approval.

- Keep your...
- Yeah.

- Walkie-talkie.
- Yeah, yeah.

And I believe that Keith knew

that I always needed approval,

and therefore he always
withheld approval.

And the more he
withheld approval,

the harder I worked.

- Oh, you want me in it a little?
- Yeah. But not...

But just not moving
forward. Okay, I'll do this.

At certain points you're
directly in front of Keith.

If I didn't behave in the way

he wanted me to behave,

he would tell me I was
breaching my ethics

and that I wasn't strong.

I think that's how Keith
got me to do everything

that he got me to do.

Constantly made me feel like
nothing I did was good enough.

I set this up after
I moved back home.

All of the paintings
I did before ESP,

I did in pure states of
creativity and curiosity.

After I worked with Nancy,
I was working on these.

I think that's around the time
I stopped finishing paintings.

I haven't really
painted since 2015.

Why do we teach you states?

What are we teaching you?

Yeah, that you can control
anything, that you can...

Anytime you feel not
good, that's a choice

that you're pretending
you're not in control of.

You're pretending that
you don't have a choice

in that moment,

or you're just enjoying
being miserable.

When I worked with
Nancy initially,

I think I recognized
choice in a different way.

You see that you can
literally do anything

in ways that even just
people every day, I think,

don't always recognize.

Except that it becomes basically
like, how did you author this?

How is this your fault?

I've been doing a lot of
the contortions lately,

and it's, I think,
really frustrating

because I know I can stop...

but it's hard.

I was very ashamed of
everything about Tourette's

because of how they attributed
it to your deficiencies

and the things
you're failing at.

We know what we should be,

what we want to
be, the perfect us,

versus the physiological
values of how we feel.

If you go with your body,

you breach your
ideological ethics.

I didn't want to tic because
I thought that was me

being a terrible person.

I've been...

I don't know if more emotional
is the right way to say it.

It's probably from
coming off of the meds.

I was being pressured
to go off of meds.

I'd been on about
40 different meds

since the time I was ten.

The physical withdrawal,
I wouldn't wish on anyone.

I've been having
a lot of anxiety.

I can't eat or sleep.

I just got off the
phone with Marc.

He said it's good that my
body is doing all these things

because I'm adj...
Adjusting and changing.

It doesn't feel good.
But it probably is.

Once I stopped ticcing,
all of these other things

started to manifest.

My OCD got worse

and I was struggling,
like, immensely.

I would reach out to Nancy or
I would try to talk to Marc

and everyone would say,

"But why are you
choosing to do this?"

♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

At one point, Nancy
brought me aside and goes,

"You're just being very
attention seeking."

I remember, she said
that and I was so scared.

I didn't want to be
attention seeking.

Like I didn't want
to be unethical.

So I just withdrew.

And so it's true
I stopped ticcing,

but I became broken
in other ways.

Probably a year into NXIVM,

we noticed her personality
changed dramatically.

She became very controlled,
and she had lost her voice.

You joining us, Belle,
or are you gonna...

- I'm gonna stand.
- You're gonna stand?

Yeah.

I actually do want to ask you
a question, but I don't want

to have a conversation
like this, please.

So, during that study,
you would be angry.

What was the anger about?

Uh, the curriculum devalues you

without making it obvious
that it's putting you down.

Like, Marc suggested I take
a penance for still ticcing,

and I was like, "I
don't want to do that."

He was like, "No,
it's with love!"

What... What's a penance?
What do you mean?

I don't know, something like...

to help hold you accountable

for the thing that you
say you want to do.

- If you're not doing it...
- But what...

- What was...
- What did you...

Anything. I don't know.

People did different
things. They would...

- Sweep the ground?
- Physical? Mental?

Anything. It could be
anything. It could be...

- you know, if you're...
- Give me one of yours.

Do you want me to tell you or...

Give me an example
of what you did.

Can we... Can I? Okay.

So, some people would
run a mile every day

or some people would not,
you know, eat for a day.

Is... I'm just curious.

Is not being nice simply
trying to make you do

what you don't want
to do at that moment?

No, it's... it doesn't matter

what you want to do. It's...

what they want to do.

And then they say
it's what you want.

And then they break you, like,

the harder you work,
the more you struggle.

And that's how they keep you in.

Hmm.

♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

What we found in ESP was
that many of us set goals

but found it difficult

because there wasn't
any consequence.

Like, I had a woman
and she said to me,

"I have a thing where
I... I have two numbers.

My numbers are eight and nine."

And I said, "And how
does that limit you?"

And she said,

"Well, I'm always late
because I have to do things

89 times or 98 times."

So I disconnected the
stimulus response.

And then I said to her,
"You're going to have to do

something physical to break
the state in the moment."

She said, "Like what?" And
I said, "Like, a plank."

Plank position, as though
you're about to plank.

Nice, straight line.

Come over here.

If you have a very bad habit,

there's no reason
to stop it, really.

So you have to make it feel bad.

The only way we change something

is when change is easier
than not changing.

And if you don't commit
to a consequence,

you're never going
to break this habit.

That's what I do at the center.

Okay?

That's it. Enough
for the old lady.

Well, she went... Where
was it that you went to?

- Al... Albany.
- Albany.

That's... she went there.

And from when she went there
to when she came home...

God bless whoever did it.

All the saints in heaven.

You got your health,
you got everything.

You could have a million dollars
and not have your health,

what good is it, right?

Yep.

Do you remember the
first time I saw you

when I came back
from the treatment?

Oh, I do remember
when you came home

and we passed each other,

and I waited for you to,
like, smack me a few times?

If we brushed each other, I'd
have to do like, a routine.

You'd have to like... yeah.

So I just stood there,
like, waited for it,

and I turned around,

and you were... you,
like, you kept walking.

I was like, "Oh, cool."

I mean, there was a time
we couldn't touch her.

Now?

That's my baby.

Just testing it, are you, Mom?

This is what I can't understand,

how they did it.

It was like,

helping us understand
Tourette's differently.

But like, it was
really difficult.

And, you know, people would
say, "But you had Tourette's."

So there's... That
was always a good one.

People want to... "But
you had Tourette's."

- The key word here is "had."
- Yeah. Yep.

Yeah. The positive is,

your symptoms are
diminished or eliminated.

You've built new skills
because of NXIVM.

I believe they can make you
more productive, more efficient.

And those are all positives

and you did not have
that when you left here.

You don't think there
are after-effects?

Oh, I'm sure there are.

But whatever happened
there, created this...

effect on your sister.

She was taking
medications to the point

where we were frightened
for her longevity.

No, I mean, I agree with
you guys completely.

It's just, a lot of it
was when I came home,

you guys didn't see
how hard it was.

It was like, "Okay,
you need to get a job.

You need to get going."

It wasn't even, like,
how far I've come.

It was like, "You're behind."

Once again, like in ESP,

I don't feel a lot
of choice here.

Our experience has been

that if we don't
set expectations...

nothing happens.

You don't realize how much,
how much it's... it's taken

to get to this point.
I'm getting better,

but I'm not in a
healthy space here.

Yeah, I... this is...

This is... I'm gonna...
I'm gonna step away

'cause I'm a little
defensive about it,

'cause I'm really angry.

- I think so. Yeah.
- All right.

I don't know what's
going on, Merr.

- I just... don't know, Merr.
- Hmm.

My approach to Keith
and the leadership

and all the bad is, that's bad.

It doesn't change the reality.
She was able to do something

simply because she began to
believe in herself to do it.

And it is supportive people
who cared about her around her.

I cannot believe you
can separate it...

the way you are.

No. No.

I... I... It makes
me so angry...

- Hmm.
- That people with power

are taking, you know, were
taking advantage of...

of their knowledge...

and their position.

I'm not condoning it. What
they did was duplicitous.

But still there was good.

And that good is real.

♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

People didn't stay in NXIVM

or even in DOS because
they were coerced.

They stayed in it because
they really thought

they were making society
and the world better,

you know, through these
very tangible things.

The Tourette study
was just fascinating.

Personal growth is
hard to measure.

The Tourette's is measurable.
You know, you could see it.

I think it really comes down
to, "Does this group do good?"

And if it does, and
I think it does,

I don't think a jury is
going to want the government

to have destroyed it.

Oh, I... I don't buy any of it.

There have been studies showing
that cognitive behavioral therapy

can be very effective
in Tourette's.

So there may have
been techniques

that Nancy Salzman
was able to use

that did reduce some small
number of people's tics,

but that had nothing to
do with Keith Raniere

or NXIVM teachings.

One of the things that
made NXIVM so dangerous

was the way it would use some
legitimate psychological tools

in a really manipulative,
coercive way.

It's really sad because
some of the people

who ended up in
this so-called study

were so vulnerable,

they were absolutely desperate
to deal with this serious,

complicated disease.

And they just ended up
being harmed further.

There was all this pressure
on them to show improvement

so that Keith and
NXIVM would look good.

It's just completely unethical

to experiment on
people this way.

I told my parents last night

that I was coming here.

Going to the trial, I
think, will be helpful

just to process and
get a sense of closure.

It's taken me quite
a while to understand

that she's probably experienced
something like PTSD.

The deal with the devil

was going in with
our eyes wide open,

knowing that there was
weird stuff going on

in the background here.

But we were willing to take...

what could be a big risk...

to get help for Isabella.

And we believed that
she would be protected

by someone like Nancy,
who had daughters herself.

♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

Hello.

She used to do these, like...

I'd come home from a
party or from whatever

and I'd have to wake her up to,
like, tell her that I was home,

and she'd like smell me...

to see if I had been like,
you know, I assume smoking

- or drinking or something.
- Drinking.

Like, she'd wake up inhaling me.

The...

There was one time
when Lauren and I

got really high
and we came home,

and Keith was over.

- No! Really?
- Yes.

This is something that we...

Was this after Lauren graduated?

Yeah, it was early.

- It was super early.
- So it was when I first met Keith, right.

I don't even know
if ESP started yet.

No, it was probably that summer.

But we kind of like, my mom
already started learning

about parasitic strategies.

And so, things that
Lauren and I were doing...

she was like, "You're
just being a parasite."

We were like, "What the fuck
are you even talking about?"

They were so mad at me.

Like, who is this person?

- What are you being taught?
- You guys were... Lauren was...

You were trying to
hold us accountable

with these like new
strategies that you had.

You know, I always wanted to be

- a good mother.
- Of course.

No, of course, which is why
we did all of this stuff.

- Why we followed you anywhere.
- Right.

♪ (MELANCHOLIC MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

How could someone
who created something

that was so beautiful,

do something that
was so terrible?

When I first hired
my lawyer, he said,

"Anybody who stands trial
with Keith will go to jail.

You have to plead guilty."

And then he said, "You have
to convince your daughter

to plead guilty too."

We tried to have
the case severed

so that the sex crimes
were on... in one case

and the non-sex crimes
were in another case,

because they're very
different crimes.

But they made it an
enterprise and they said

they're not severing the case.

I think they arrested me
because they wanted to pit

Lauren and I against each other.

At that point, the only thing
we could do is plead guilty

because if I didn't plead guilty
and get Lauren to plead guilty,

she would have gone to
jail for ten or more years.

Lauren took a little while
to come to terms with it.

The body can do so much more

than the mind alone.

There's one drill that
we do. You wanna step up?

I mean, I think you've...

Follow my hands with
your hands, right?

Follow them exactly.
Pretty good.

But you're thinking too much.

Now, if you do it with me,
uh, if... if I don't...

- You... you're not moving.
- Oh, you want me to do...

Oh, I'm in the other position.

I mean, I'm not...

Oh!

- My honey.
- Oh.

- But... Are you okay?
- Yeah, just give me one sec.

Please hit me.

No, I don't want to.

I'm s... I'm sorry

- for the... for the strike.
- It's okay. It's okay.

But if you learn to
suspend your mind,

then the body can do
all sorts of things

that you've never done before.

So I think what
you need to decide

is what do you really want

and how much are you
willing to devote

to being a master at it?

She just loved him and
she wanted to believe

that it wasn't what it was.

Are you okay?

- Yeah.
- Yeah. Okay.

It was very difficult for her,

and what she did was very,
very difficult for her,

and she was the only
one who could do it.

Testify about the sorority.

♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪

Lauren gave them
more information

than they knew existed.

She really turned the case.

The second weekend,

the federal NXIVM trial
wraps up in Brooklyn

with Lauren Salzman
on the stand.

Lauren Salzman held

several high-ranking positions

and acted as times as
a recruiter, teacher,

and a DOS master.

Salzman is the
first co-conspirator

to testify against
Keith Raniere.

We will be keeping our
eye on what could turn out

to be a very pivotal
day in the case.

The government may call

its next witness to the stand.

The government calls

Lauren Salzman to the stand.

Good morning, Ms. Salzman.

Good morning.

How long were you
a part of NXIVM?

Almost 20 years.

Who first approached
you about DOS?

Keith first approached me.

He said that he wanted to
make our relationship closer.

Let me into your space.

And he asked me what
I was willing to do

for my growth and for
my commitment to him.

What did you say?

Anything.

Anything.

♪ (DRAMATIC MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪

♪ ("PIANO IN THE SKY"
BY WINONA OAK PLAYING) ♪

♪ There's a piano in the sky ♪

♪ I hear it playing
All the time ♪

♪ There's a rope
I'm holding tight ♪

♪ I dream of falling
Every night ♪

♪ I'm tired of thinking
That I don't deserve you ♪

♪ I'm dreading the day
When you let me go ♪

♪ So take all this
love From me ♪

♪ I don't want to feel anymore ♪

♪ Just take this heart of me ♪

♪ You had every part of me ♪

♪ I'll be fine, I promise ♪

♪ Don't say, don't say
Don't say, don't say ♪

♪ There's a way To
live without me, baby ♪

♪ Too late, too late
It's all too late ♪

♪ So I'll stay till we break ♪

♪ ("PIANO IN THE
SKY" CONCLUDES) ♪