The Vow (2020–…): Season 2, Episode 2 - Rapport - full transcript

Now, remember,
Keith Raniere was arrested

with five other women, all
part of his inner circle.

And now, all of the women
have pleaded guilty.

And do we
know if we'll be hearing

from any of these women as
witnesses during the trial?

We don't know yet,
but any of them could testify.

I plead
guilty to one count

of racketeering conspiracy.

And after Keith's trial is
over and he's sentenced,

I'll get my sentence
from the judge.

Come on, Mouse.



When I was
first arrested,

I wasn't allowed to
leave the house at all.

Recently, I got permission

to be able to
speak to my family.

So, at least, Lauren and I,

we are able to
talk to each other.

I was told that
this is a privilege.

I could be in jail.

This is crazy.

Imagine you spent... 22 years
trying to build something

that you fully believed in
and you thought was good,

and everybody thinks...

it's the devil's work.

I really have not looked
at this in a very long time.



It's running, let's
see what's in it.

Have you ever had an experience
where you were called upon

to do something

but you really didn't
know how to do that thing?

How do you feel when you
have such an experience?

Most people say
"fearful," "insecure,"

like they're on shaky ground.

Because we are.

But children have that
experience all the time.

And they are forced to come
up with an understanding

so that they can
function very quickly.

The beliefs that we formed
when we were small children

stay with us.

I think the reason
that Keith chose me

is because of my background.

I did a lot of work with
patients with chronic pain

and chronic illness.

My mother had a
chronic pain problem

when I was growing up,

and many times, my mother
was in so much pain

that she couldn't
get out of bed.

I always felt so terrible

when I saw how much
pain my mother was in.

I remember her crawling.

And so, I became a nurse.

Early in my career,

it was the heyday of
chronic pain clinics.

So, I started studying
about chronic pain.

And I started to understand

that there was a
mind-body connection.

And I learned to teach people
self-hypnosis techniques,

and do neuro-linguistic
programming, or NLP.

NLP is a model of
language patterns

to create behavioral change.

I used it in my work
with pain management

and it was very,
very successful.

What I found was that I was
able to work with people

for like six to ten sessions,
they would resolve their issue,

but like in two
years, or three years,

they would come back
with another issue

that was amazingly similar to
the first issue.

I was always looking for
something that I could use

to help people create change
that would be permanent.

And so, most of my career
was trying to find that.

So, um...

Keith was trying to
meet me for ten years.

He wanted me to
train his company

in neuro-linguistic programming,

but I actually didn't have
the self-confidence to do it.

Ten years later,

both of my kids had
gone away to college.

I was divorced, I was alone.

So I decided to
meet Keith Raniere.

I don't even know how to
describe what it's like

when you... you meet
someone like Keith.

He understood the human
psychodynamic in a way

that I have never seen
anyone understand it.

He understood it and
he worked with it.

We all want to be
in sync with people,

we wanna feel connected,

and that's a feeling
that we call rapport.

And when we're in
rapport with people,

we have a tendency to feel an
unconscious trust for them.

In order to establish rapport,
you mirror the other person.

Like, if you and I are chatting

and you're speaking
in a certain volume,

I can mirror that
volume, or match it.

Yeah, let's suppose you have
some... someone who's sitting

and thinking or whatever.

Suddenly, I'm closer and
everyone sort of sees it

but the person who's
sitting like this

will feel more in touch
with me like that...

We fall into
a certain rapport

when that happens, Keith
was a master of that.

He told me that he had
this idea for a model

for behavior change.

Go into this organization
with four bronze bonuses.

And he said, "You
know, I just thought NLP

would be a good basis to do
this project that I wanna do."

He took me into his
office and we were drawing

charts of perception

and it was the most compelling
conversation I've ever had.

We talked for five hours.

Humility
and vulnerability

is fearlessness.

If you're completely vulnerable,

you have nothing to lose.

- That make sense?
- Yeah.

For several weekends in a row,

we would have conversations.

- You do?
- Oh.

As if you're
getting shit for it?

Sometimes I would cry,
sometimes I would laugh.

So, what does
materialism bring?

Sometimes I would
be walking around...

and I would feel like
the ground wasn't steady.

Your sense of self is
different than self-esteem.

Your sense of self is...

I realized that the
conversations we had

had somehow shifted
my perspective.

And I was far more
positive than I was

when I met him. Like,
far more positive.

At a certain point,
I said to him,

"Can I watch you
use this model?"

And he said, "What do you mean?"
And I said, "Like on a person.

Can I, like, watch you
use this on a per...

Could you get a person

and let me watch
you do a session?"

And he said to me, "You
mean other than you?"

I had never seen anything
like what he did before.

And I'd never experienced anything
like what he did before, myself.

If I could help people in
that short amount of time,

the way that he does,
I would do anything.

He said, "If you want
me to mentor you,

you have to agree
to work with me

for the rest of your life."

And I said to him, "Under
what conditions would we not

work for the rest of
our life?" And he said,

"If I ever believe that you
are using the curriculum

in an unethical manner,

then that would be the
end of our relationship."

And that's what I signed up for.

Maybe in the
beginning, NXIVM helped people.

So then what
happened that, like,

suddenly pushed that envelope?

There's something in
this that lead Raniere

to believe that he needed,
you know, followers,

or that he needed, you know,

this society that
just really, like,

enveloped and protected him.

It's like, was he suddenly
there without realizing it?

Or was that the goal?

Prosecutors
still haven't said

who their initial
witnesses are gonna be.

I'm just super curious.

They could either
start, like, with a bang

right out of the door,
with, like, a big witness.

Allison Mack, Lauren Salzman...

It's also possible
Nancy could testify.

She's someone who
was very close to him

and has intimate knowledge
of what was happening.

Or we could slowly build.

We know we're
getting Mark Vicente.

You know, he's one of
the closest men to Keith.

It'd be a really tough
thing to live with to, like,

suddenly have your
world fall apart

and also to have it be
like, "Oh, this person

I looked up to so much...

is actually just victimizing
everybody around me."

I will be the
witness against Raniere,

facing him for the first
time in about two years.

I'm terrified.

If he gets off, then it's back

to just full-blown
battle stations.

And then they're
coming after us.

When we
got that call, you know,

I never imagined we
would be here right now.

The next time
I talked to Nippy,

he was scared like I've
never seen him before.

And I was his best
friend for a decade.

He kept texting me,
"Dude, this is bad.

You have to hear this."

Mark called me.

The first thing he said is like,

"This is gonna turn
your world upside down."

He told me in that phone
call Sarah had a brand.

And he basically
invited me, in a sense,

to the campaign that
they were gonna conduct

to go after Keith.

And then I called Sarah,
and said, "I'm sorry that

something like this
happens to you."

Where I grew up, if
there's women being abused

and held down, you run
towards where they are.

- How you doing?
- I'm good. How are you?

Then I flew to Albany
to investigate,

to talk to Keith,
to talk to Allison,

to talk to Lauren,
to talk to everyone.

I found a sorority, I found
things that were not only

not criminal, but
maybe even good.

Yes, edgy, but all these women
are women that I respect.

So I was working on people
that are ready to die

for a principle.

And as I practice it,

- I felt, like, determination.
- Very good. Yeah.

They perceive themselves
going against adversity.

They perceive themselves
going into the fire.

The curriculum of ESP

that Keith and
Nancy has created...

My life has been amazingly
bettered by them.

You know, Nancy, I don't
think I would be a father

if it wasn't for her.

My wife and I, we're
trying to get pregnant,

there was some personal
stuff and physical stuff

and, you know, she walked
us through it and I,

you know, I honestly...

I think, I mean being
a dad is the best thing

that has happened to me and...

I don't think without
Nancy and Keith,

I would be the loving father
and husband that I am,

and there's thousands of people

that would tell you
similar stories.

So, when these people
started getting arrested...

Um, I don't know, it's like...

it's like, the whole
world is upside down.

After a year
of home confinement,

I'm in a situation
where I have a curfew.

I'm allowed to leave the
house from 7:00 in the morning

until 9:00 at night.

But I can't go anywhere
without asking permission.

So, we're going to my old house.

I lived in this house for, uh...

What did I live there
for? Thirteen years.

I used to see
my a.m. clients in this room.

Hiya.

That's a problem.

With the statistics and
all the other stuff.

I get a whole load
of shit from Twitter.

It's the first
time I've seen it.

- Did I write that?
- You wrote that.

I don't say that, but...

Never in a million years
would I have ever imagined

the life I lived, being
the prefect of ESP.

He was very
kind in the beginning,

and he gave me
everything I wanted.

Like, he gave me a company.

He gave me tools.

He let me teach, he let
me do everything I loved.

This is the world
the way I want it,

and this is the
world the way it is.

If these line up, remember
what we call that?

We started really
small with 20 students

in my old office in Albany.

And we had 100 students
within a month.

Okay.

How about we start
with parasites?

I really believed
in the education.

And that's why my daughters
joined our organization.

So, we wanna grow
the organization.

So what starts out,
maybe, with ten people,

becomes 100, becomes 1000.

We have opened up
centers all over the world.

When I first
went to Mexico, on day two,

Alex says to me,

"I don't wanna
hurt your feelings

but I need to tell you something

because I really want
you to be successful

here in Mexico."

And he says, "Honestly...

you look like a middle-class
American woman."

And I say,

"Alex, I am a middle-class
American woman."

And he says, "I have
to take you shopping."

So, he puts me in a
dressing room with a woman,

who starts handing me 2200
and 2500-dollar jackets.

I just started my company,

I'm having a panic attack
in the dressing room.

I remember, I called
Keith and Keith says,

"Nancy, if Alex says you
need to spend 20,000 dollars

on a wardrobe, you spend
20,000 dollars on a wardrobe."

And I'm like...

Like, I'm a little Jewish
girl from New Jersey,

whose mother taught her
how to shop.

Five suits, 20,000
dollars. I buy 'em.

I wanted to affect
as many people as I could,

and I got really busy with that.

I slept three or
four hours a day.

For 20 years, I had
studied human potential

and I couldn't understand
what would motivate people

to want to change.

And this is what's
very different

about our attack.

We are going all the way down.

Down here we call this
the "deep structure."

And we have been an
organization that is maturing

and a stability, that
I think can withstand

what comes against
us in the world.

This is funny, this
is in O magazine,

I coached the art director.

It says, "Nancy Salzman,
president of NXIVM Corp,

offers the coaching and
motivational workshops."

Keith wanted us

to get to the highest
areas of entertainment.

The highest
areas of government.

Hello. My name is
Emiliano Salinas.

I come from a political family.

I mean you have so much,
it's such a rich country...

The highest level of every
area of human endeavor.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I thought that if people
could understand each other

and the human struggle, we
could resolve any problems.

Any problems in the world.

Whoo!

And for people to believe

it was just a big
scam of a sex cult.

It's so horrendous.

I mean this
case is a highly sexual case.

There's a lot of very
intense sexual conversations.

I'm really worried about
people pre-judging Keith

because of his lifestyle.

I need jurors to come into
this with an open heart

and listen to this story.

Keith said something today
that I thought was very smart.

He's like, you know,

he's like, "This is like
a... Like a family feud,

and everything that the
government says is bad

was all us doing
stuff to each other.

You know? I mean we didn't...

You know, we didn't
hurt anybody else.

And then there was a
division within the family.

And now, the family
is destroyed."

This trial's
kinda terrifying

because the stakes are so high.

I feel his life is in my hands.

I feel like his life's
work is in my hands.

I only got one
chance to do this.

And I just have to do
it a hundred percent.

There
has not been a case

that measures up to this

in terms of personal
importance to me.

I believe that Keith Raniere
is a very dangerous man.

He victimized so many people.

It was really the
psychological torture

of women in a systemic
fashion for decades.

I really think that this
case can shine a light

on some really dark things

that had happened
for a very long time.

This is the beginning

of what is turning
out to be one of

the most sensational trials

as prosecutors paint
Keith as a predator

who preyed on women.

Keith Raniere is facing a total

of seven charges.

Prosecutors
say the organization is actually

a cult involved sex slavery,
branding its members,

and recruiting celebrities.

We hear about some of these
things happening sometimes

and we think, "Oh,
it's so horrifying.

This is awful. How
does this happen?"

But it doesn't necessarily
mean it's criminal.

Coercion, that's
what really important

from a legal perspective.

You just need one
person for a hung jury.

I don't know what the defense
is thinking but sometimes

that's all you can hope for.

We'll just see what happens.

So yeah, we're
here, day one, trial.

I'm just kind of
interested in the process

as well as what the, uh,
defense is gonna try.

His supporters were
all there today.

Whatever happens,
they're gonna make work

for their narrative.

They're just gonna
go, "See, we told you,

they're out to railroad him."

Ms.
Hajjar, you may proceed

with the government's
opening statement.

The
defendant, Keith Raniere,

claimed to be a leader.
But he was a con man.

He targeted people

who were looking to
improve their lives.

He drew them in slowly
with promises of success,

money, better relationships.

And once he gained their
trust, he exploited it.

The defendant was the leader
of a criminal organization

in Upstate New York.

And he relied on an inner circle
of followers who supported him

and promoted him, and
committed crimes for him.

He said this was all
about women's empowerment.

But during this trial,
the evidence will show

that what the defendant
wanted had nothing to do

with empowering women
and had everything to do

with enslaving them.

Seventeen
thousand people

took NXIVM courses.

Successful people, CEOs,
executives, actors.

And not because they were
bamboozled or fooled.

They took them because they
got something out of them.

There's going to be
evidence Keith Raniere

had multiple intimate partners
over a very long period of time.

And you might say,
"I don't like that.

I think it's morally wrong."

You're absolutely
entitled to that opinion

but that's not one
of the charges.

You're gonna find parts
of this case distasteful

and inconsistent with
your own morality.

And that's okay.

You see, I don't have to defend
everything to win this case.

But one thing I am gonna
defend is his intentions.

I'm gonna defend his good faith.

Agnifilo seems to have the mind

where he can take
things out of context

and water you down
in content points

and forget that this is
someone with an agenda

that's clandestine.

So, yeah, he basically
preempts everyone,

admits that there's gonna
be salacious stuff coming.

I think in a hopes to disarm or
normalize egregious behavior,

I can see how he might
convince the jury.

You can see how people get off.

You know?

The government
may call its first witness.

The government calls

the witness who'll be
identified as Sylvie.

What was really important
about Sylvie as a first witness

is we got right to the heart
of the allegations about DOS,

which is Sylvie
being brought into

what she believes to be a
women's empowerment group

and how very quickly it turned
so very dark and disturbing.

Okay, Sylvie, how
long were you a part

of the organization named NXIVM?

Thirteen years.

Till next year.

- Next year, I'm gonna beef up.
- We're gonna feed you.

Yeah.

Even... even an extra
pound makes a difference.

We will train you.

Yes. I really wanna...
No, I do really wanna do that.

Okay.

Growing up,

I always wanted to be an equestrian.

At a competition in
Helsinki, I met Clare Bronfman,

who was an elite
rider at the time.

Clare encouraged me to
take the curriculum.

And in my mind, I thought
I could become a coach.

That would show Clare that
I was committed to my growth

and potentially put
me in her good favor.

So, I signed up to take
the five-day intensive.

The first day was
quite overwhelming for me.

The first thing you see
when you walk in the door

are these rather large
pictures of Keith Raniere

and Nancy Sulzman.

Everyone was very
enthusiastic about Keith.

That kind of idealization
of any one individual

was so far outside anything
I've ever experienced before.

Okay, Sylvie,

are you familiar
with this document?

Yeah, that's
the mission statement.

This was something
that was taught a lot.

The idea is that there is
really no such thing as victims

and anything that happens
to you is created by you.

In the entire organization,
you have this concept

of being at cause.

Which is the main concept

for it to work the way it does.

It's like you are responsible,
not only responsible

but you're at cause
in your emotions.

You're at cause in your life.

I am causing my own emotions,
I am not a victim of anybody.

You wanna be a victim? No,
I don't wanna be a victim.

Good. There's no
ultimate victims.

Therefore, I will not
choose to be a victim.

I am committed to my success.

What I was hearing from
so many of the people

that I was speaking
to was this concern

that they had done something
to cause the situation

that they had ended up in

based on the idea that
you're being a victim.

Which really was a key tenet
of the NXIVM curriculum.

Okay, Sylvie,

I wanna show you
government exhibit 1005.

Most people scream abuse
and they have no idea

of the morality of what
they are talking about.

A lot of times, the screaming
of abuse is abuse in itself,

'cause we're talking
about abusing abuse.

Because they have no idea
what they are talking about,

there's some inconvenient
thing happening

and they wish it were different
and they yell "abuse."

It is not necessarily
abuse so they abuse.

It's very powerful, right?

Was that type of concept

something that you
were familiar with?

Yeah. Definitely.

And how did
you understand it?

That anything
that happened to you

is your own fault.

And if you call it abuse,

then you're just trying to
get out of the responsibility

that it was your fault somehow.

That women are kind
of yelling "abuse"

and wanting to be victims.

Do you believe
that that type of teaching

impacted you in any way
in the decisions you made?

Definitely.

I just felt like I
couldn't trust myself...

with what I thought
was right and wrong.

Okay, Sylvie, did
a fellow NXIVM member

approach you about participating
in a secret project?

Yes.

She said to me, "You
seem really unhappy."

She told me that she
had this special project

and that it had nothing
to do with ESP or NXIVM.

It was something that
could really help me.

She was someone that
I felt I could trust.

But she couldn't
tell me what it was

unless I was willing to
provide some collateral.

So, she tries
to work out, like,

collateral that's
damaging enough.

And finally, they agree that
it would be damaging enough

for her to write a
letter to her family

saying that she is a prostitute.

And she puts lots of
details in that letter.

She... I mean,
from her testimony,

it sounds like she wrote
a sexually explicit letter

to her parents about, you know,
her days spent as a sex worker.

Her understanding,
so she testified,

was that if she said "no"

to being part of this great,
new, self-help project,

the letter would be
immediately mailed

to her parents because it
was conveniently ready to go.

First, I was very proud. I
was very proud to be invited.

Until I was threatened to
have my collateral out.

When you choose to be
a part of the vow...

that is your ultimate choice.

Because you are giving a
vow of absolute obedience

and you're giving collateral.

This is... This is
an important piece.

So, any moment in
the middle of the...

Like, "I don't want
this. I don't want it!"

"You chose it. And we
have your collateral."

It's a trick.

I was willing to have
that collateral out

because I was not going
to be blackmailed.

And that's why I left DOS.

Okay, Sylvie,
what happened next?

Well, shortly after
I turned over my collateral,

I was told my assignment
was to seduce Keith.

And I was like, "What do
you mean, seduce him?"

This is not what I want to do.

But it was the first
assignment for my master,

so I didn't really
have a choice.

Eventually, I sent
Keith a text saying,

"You look hot in your glasses."

And he replied, "You're going
to have to do better than that."

He suggested I
send him a picture.

So, I sent him a
picture of my face.

And then he started prompting
me to make the pictures lower

and lower, suggesting I become
more and more vulnerable.

And before long, I was texting
him nude photos of myself,

posing in provocative ways.

So, any, uh,
thoughts, questions?

I was wondering, like
would you talk a little bit

about the difference between
vulnerability and fear?

Vulnerability and fear.

They're bed partners
to some degree.

You learn to
separate 'em though.

Whenever you go
toward vulnerability,

this fear comes up.

And you know how
there's some little kids

who like to be scared?

You almost have to do that
with the vulnerability.

You almost have to look
at where you're scared,

because fear itself is
just something in the body.

You can feel tremendous fear
and literally push yourself

to do something.

We think of vulnerability as
being our lowest state of...

being
able to have anything.

Gosh, if we're completely
vulnerable and naked,

our very soul will
be taken from us

and we will be
valueless, dying alone.

No one will look at us.

We'll have no
connection, no love.

And the truth of the matter is,
the more you become acquainted

with vulnerability,
the more you realize

you're not gonna dissipate.

And then, it's "Oh, my goodness.

I've been living a myth."

It's a... So, suddenly,
you realize the very thing

that you're scared of is
the thing that is strength.

Did you want to
send those pictures to him?

No. I
had to do it. It was like

this weird assignment,
turned quite dark.

And it was really
affecting my psyche.

I begged Keith for permission
to stop sending the pictures.

He said "Okay,

but the next assignment
will be in person."

When I got to Keith's house,
he was waiting outside.

He took me to his room,

that had a big bed with
dirty white sheets on it.

I was absolutely terrified.

He told me
to get undressed

and to lie back on the bed.

So, I did.

And then he went down on me.

How did that experience
compare to what you thought

you were joining with DOS?

It just felt like
a whole different realm

of darkness.

I felt so much shame.
And still do, honestly.

These women who are saying
that they're victims,

you have to see how do
they speak to Keith.

You know, what do they
say to him, you know?

And what do they want?

What do they say
that they wanted?

That's when the jury's
gonna start seeing

what this case is really about.

When we actually
get to the evidence.

Earlier, you said
you started sending Keith

naked photographs, correct?

Yes.

And in this
particular message,

that's you with a naked torso
and under it, you write...

That's correct.

And when you asked him,

"Do you think we can
spend time this week?"

You wanted to see
Keith, correct?

It looks like that's
what I'm saying, yeah.

And you agree with me,
you're asking this to Keith

on a pretty regular basis?

I was just following
the instructions of my master.

All right, so on
August 9th, you say...

- That's what you write, correct?
- Yes, that's correct.

And under it, there's
a naked picture of you,

and you write...

I would say whatever

I thought was most
pleasing to him.

So, when you said
that you dreamt about him,

you were making that up?

I may have
dreamt about him.

If I say I did, I'm sure I did.

Have you told my
client that you love him?

I tried to be
the best slave I could be

so that things would
work out for me.

I'm not saying that was
the right way to do things.

But that's what I did.

I have
nothing else, Judge.

I think Sylvie did
one of the bravest things

I've ever seen anyone do

and it sucks that
she had to do that.

You know, it's fucked up.

But I feel like what
Keith's abuses were,

weren't exposed today.

I can see how a jury member
sitting in there going,

"Well, yeah, you know,
that was her decision.

You know, she chose to
stay and she communicated,

and she encouraged him." And
that's just not the case.

Regardless of what their texts
back to him are, or whatever,

they need to understand
that the system

and the indoctrination these
women have gone through,

which set Sylvie up

for a vulnerable
moment like that.

Some of our viewers may
be wondering why any woman

would subject themselves to
this and why they would not just

walk away from this situation

or simply say no
to these requests.

Former NXIVM member,
Barbara Bouchey,

giving some insight into
this, just after court.

Let's put these
messages in context,

and let's establish how
she felt manipulated.

And specifically,
how he does that.

I don't feel that
they established that.

Yes, Sylvie did say,
"I felt I needed to

and I was ordered to."
But it's just gotta leave

the jurors wondering
like, "Wait a minute,

something here is not
sizing up." You know?

So Keith's attorney

has won the one on
Sylvie, unfortunately.

- Hi.
- Hey.

So, Eduardo and all those people
saw Sylvie talking about this...

Yes, and they walk out, yeah.

So, like, they don't wanna
take in the information.

- Like if that's what...
- Well, if they're there,

and Sylvie is saying
this, this is not...

This is not me or
Mark Vicente...

- Yeah.
- With Sylvie.

- Yeah.
- It's gotta get in.

It's gonna get in somehow.

- I'm telling you.
- Sarah.

Sarah, we're still the enemy.

They're in the
same diner we are.

They're in the other
room right now.

Fuck me, I'm gonna
call Eduardo right now.

- I'm gonna call him.
- No, no.

- Yeah, I'm calling him.
- Shit, pump the brakes.

At this point, if you don't see
that the thing that Keith sold

and pretended he was
upholding is a fucking con,

you are supporting something
that is undermining

the principles that
you pretend to uphold.

So, either they're willing
to embrace more information,

"get all the data," as they
say, or maintain their narrative

and good luck, see
where that gets you.

Just gonna make sure the judge
doesn't think I'm a slob.

Okay?

Terrified.

Fucking terrified.
And I hate suits.

With a passion.

I vowed I never wanted to
wear them again after ESP,

and here I am about to, in
some ways, do an ESP intro,

explaining how it all
works and what it is and...

why I liked it.

They all told me, like,
once you get inside of it,

it's fine. It's
just the beginning.

You know, it's a new
environment and...

it's kind of nerve-wracking.

It's just the beginning that
I'm the most worried about.

- Bye.
- Bye.

As far as I understand,
if one jury member

doesn't think he's guilty then
he's pronounced not guilty,

I think. Like it needs
to be across the board.

So, if he manages to brainwash
one jury member then...

I think he goes free.

And then he'd come
after us, 100 percent.

Like, he's a vengeful
bastard, he doesn't...

He doesn't, like,
get on with his life

and be like, "Oh,
maybe I've had enough."

His whole life's purpose seems
to be coming after people.

Especially people who were
loyal to him who are now not.

I don't wanna
be in the courtroom

because it wouldn't be good
for Mark if I was in there

when he's testifying,

'cause I'm worried about me
having panic attacks and stuff.

But I wish I could
be a fly on the wall.

Good afternoon, Mr. Vicente.

Good afternoon.

How long were you involved
with the organization?

I was with the organization
for about 12 years.

During
your 12 years at NXIVM,

did you come to
know Mr. Raniere?

I did.

And what was the
defendant's role at NXIVM?

He was considered
the philosophical founder.

The driving, ethical, moral
and humanitarian force

behind the entire company.

I'd like to have you look
around the courtroom.

And let us know if you see
Mr. Raniere here today.

I remember shaking, and I
remember saying to myself,

"I'm not going to look at him."

Like, "I'm not looking
at the defense table."

But I had to say the
defendant's name,

like, "Keith Raniere."

And then they say,
"Can you point to him?"

I pointed at him and I
held... I just held it.

And the thing
that was just fucked up

was that the way he looked
at me when I pointed at him

was sort of this, like,
"I'm here for you.

I'm still on your side.
I still love you."

And I made the decision,
like, "Fuck you.

You're not getting in my head."

But later on, I had this,
like, sudden thought,

it was bizarre, it like
just floated through

and it was like...
It was sort of like,

"What if he's right?

What if he actually
is a good guy?"

Okay. You wear the
headphones and I'll...

Let me hear how it sounds.

Wait, how'd you do that?

And I was like,

"What the fuck is that
thought doing there?"

I was so horrified.

Not so much that the
thought had taken root,

but that I had the thought.

Okay, Mr. Vicente.
Let's turn back to 2005.

- In that year,

did you participate
in an ESP program?

I did. It was
a 16-day training.

And pretty early on, a number
of the philosophical ideas

began being introduced.

In one particular module,

they talked about
speaking with honor.

And that if you were
unable to speak with honor,

it suggested you had
a problem with pride

and that you were what
was termed "suppressive."

And what was interesting
to me is that

it seemed quite okay

to speak dishonorably
about other people,

but not Vanguard, not Raniere.

One could never speak
dishonorably about him

because then you would be
considered to be prideful.

So, there was a trap that
seemed to be built in.

They even brought up the
word "cult" and said, "Look,

the word doesn't exist,
there's no definition for it.

And anybody who uses the word
is clearly suppressive as well."

So, in essence, I
began to realize

that if you said anything
against the curriculum,

against the educational
model, or against the founder,

you were considered suppressive.

People who would be
labelled as suppressives

would be people who
actually challenged

the abuses within
the NXIVM system.

The idea would be that you are

somebody who doesn't
want good in the world.

You are actively fighting
against this really great thing

because you are
somebody who destroys.

"It was a horrible,
twisted idea," he said.

Vicente told the jury
that looking back he feels

Raniere's teachings
about overcoming fears

to achieve self-fulfillment
was a fraud and a lie.

Says he
broke down crying.

And he needed to compose
himself on the witness stand.

I'm done.

Yeah.

It's okay, baby.

I feel like the greatest
thing that could've happened

is I got to face
off this monster

and then see that I
have any more like...

Was there anything
holding me back

from seeing the truth?
And I found, in the end,

there was nothing.
Nothing holding me back.

I could... I could face him.

But I'm free from him.

You know? He's not
in my soul anymore,

he's not in my head anymore.

You know, I
really loved Mark.

And I felt like we
were really friends.

This could
not have been built,

had prefect Nancy
Salzman not existed.

And some of you have heard that
I was pompous beyond belief.

She broke my pride,

she broke my arrogance
but she did it with love.

We are standing on the
shoulders of giants.

And to me, you are a giantess.

When he left,

it was very painful
for me what he did.

I'm just gonna say
thank you, Mark.

They were
so destructive.

Sarah went home and disenrolled
everybody she enrolled

and gave them refunds
out of our money.

She didn't have a
right to do that.

And the call that she
finally did make to me

was so horrendous.

So, that was how I...
That was my call from Sarah.

Would you respond to
a message like that?

I think I probably feel angrier
at Sarah than I do at Keith,

which is not rational,
I guess but...

I mean, I think Keith
is just the way he is.

We're not really here, this
is a video of a meeting

that happened long ago.

Do you... Sir,
we're connected up.

I think
everybody just assumes.

You know, I knew everything

and I should've
known everything.

But when everything
started to blow up...

I didn't know why really.

In 2017, during
my birthday party...

a very dear friend
of mine came to me

thinking I knew about DOS.

I had no idea what
she was talking about.

Meanwhile, Nippy is having
some kind of tantrum.

I called Keith and I
said, "What's going on?"

And he said, "Nothing."
And I said, "Keith,

something is going on."

And I said that
I'm really upset.

It's very clear that everyone
in that room knows something

that I don't know.

And finally, Lauren is
sent to take me for a walk.

And she says to me, "Mom, I
don't want you to be upset.

It's nothing bad."

And I said, "Well, why
isn't anyone telling me?"

And she said, "Well, Mom,

there's this secret
organization.

It's like a sorority."

And I said, "And Keith
is running this thing?"

And she said, "No.
It's the women."

And I went to Keith, and I said,
"You're doing this, aren't you?

You're running
this, aren't you?"

And he said, "No,
no, no, no, no."

He said it was the women's idea.

I was so angry at these women.

It seemed like they were
just very thoughtless

about how what they were
doing was going to affect

everything I had worked
for for 20 years.

And then, he stood up in front
of the whole organization,

and told the whole organization
what he had told me

and I still believed him.

The connection with the sorority
between myself, between NXIVM,

between Jness has
been...

ridiculously, not
only exaggerated,

but even fabricated.

The sorority is
not a NXIVM thing.

It is totally separate.

In fact, there are
people in this sorority

that aren't in any of
our companies at all.

The sorority is not a company.

Most of the things about
it are not really true.

And then my whole
company was destroyed...

and my whole life fell apart.

There were bad things
that happened...

but it doesn't
mean that everybody

who's getting blamed
for the bad things

actually did the bad things.

The sex cult was DOS,
it was over here.

It was Keith's thing.

My company didn't
need to be destroyed.

But it was.

That's not right.

I spent 20 years trying to
make the world a better place

and this is where I ended up.

Actually, I spent 40 years

trying to make the
world a better place

because I started before
I knew Keith Raniere.

And the other thing I
don't understand is...

17,000 people got good results.

Where are they?

Why aren't they
standing up for us?