The Vow (2020–…): Season 1, Episode 8 - The Wound - full transcript

I was a former girlfriend
of Keith Raniere.

I started to feel uncomfortable
with things that were going on

with the company.

He took my shame,
and he figured out a way

to use it to control me.

I thought,
I'm gonna break up with him

and that's gonna be
the end of the relationship.

That was just kind of
the beginning of hell.

What we need is evidence
of criminality.

Who can we bring in to help us?

We have the same agenda.



He'a helped a lot of people
get out.

They're starving your daughter.

They're making her
sleep deprived.

We need more people
to come out on the record.

I'm gonna start a list.
Who wants to help?

I never assumed
that I would be responsible

for so much of this.

This is a horrible situation
for a parent to be in.

You know, I watched my...

The way my father
treated my mother,

and I wanted to model my father,

so I treated my mother that way.

But when I get on
the playground,

and some little girl
takes my things
and hits me with a bucket,



if I hit back, I'm punished.

Normally, it's a father,
or a brother, or another man

grabs the little boy's wrist
and holds him back.

And normally,
we're something like two.

And that first time,
when that happens to us,

it is unjust.

We don't have the ability
to reason this out.

All we're seeing is,
that person can do, and we can't.

I'm not loved.
I'm not the loved one, here.

I'm not the one
that gets cared for.

And all of us, as little boys,

to some degree,
we experience what I call a wound.

The indirect wound
that a woman feels is

as she's a little girl,
her life is protected.

And she lives in this

protected life,
protected life, protected life.

And suddenly,
as she gets a little older,

she starts hitting up
against reality,

and against being suppressed,

put in a glass box,

and that is, that is a, a shock.

And what is the wound? The
wound is she's been overprotected.

But as men,
we have a very direct wound.

It's an ache, a hurt, a sadness.

And maybe you can't even
quite put your finger on it.

But all the way back to the end,

there was an inherent
unfairness that we lived.

This wound is something
that is very deep,

and very emotional, and something
we have to come to grips with. Why?

Because it can be the foundation

of an anger and a hate
towards women.

Thank you so much.

Frank?

Hey. I
think it went really well.

And it looks like

they may be, um,
assigning a task force.

FBI task force.

Yeah.

It's good, it's good news.

And they want to focus on DOS.

The coercive aspect of it.

The trafficking, and, um,

they want to speak to
witnesses immediately.

Thank you, Frank.

Okay.

Hi,
you've reached India Oxenberg.

Please leave a voicemail, and I will
get back to you as soon as possible.

Have a great day.

I sent her a
really strong tet this morning

saying, "Get out of there.

You're going to go down
for human trafficking."

No, I've,
I've been thinking about her a lot today

and thinking she's
walking into all these traps.

She's trusting Keith.

She thinks he's trustworthy.

Well,
I've been warning her about the FBI,

so the fact that
I actually... you know,

- in the beginning, I was just making shit up.
- Right.

Because I wanted to scare her,
but now it's really happening.

It's insane.

What they want to do
is focus on DOS,

and then once they've
got something,

- then open it up.
- Expand it.

- Yeah.
- And they can make arrests for DOS,

- I think.
- Apparently so. I mean,

- I was...
- I was surprised by that.

Yeah,
because when you guys dealt with this,

- you went to the FBI.
- Yeah.

They said it's consensual.
There's nothing we can do.

- So, at a certain point...
- I think though...

It's because of the whole
women's rights thing...

- that's going on. It must be.
- That's crazy.

They may
have leverage right now,

- because of that. That they have a way in.
- Yeah.

- It'll be high-profile right now.
- Yeah.

But why it's relevant

is people were conditioned...

- Yeah. Yeah.
- ...to accept that type of mistreatment.

I think that
there was things you learned

for you to normalize
the DOS stuff.

- Yep.
- I would give them the curriculum.

- Yep.
- We have videos of these things.

- You need to hand over all of that material.
- Yeah. Yeah.

So you're having to
bring the whole story together.

Your psyche's going to be
fighting this.

I don't feel
that in my heart at all.

- But my brain has been, you know.
- Well...

Your heart hasn't been
tampered with.

- No.
- The circuitry is a bit messed.

If someone thinks
they can be brainwashed,

or is worried about
brainwashing,

- then they definitely shouldn't come to our program.
- Mm-hmm.

Our program has nothing
to do with brainwashing,

but if someone holds
those sort of beliefs,

they're probably better either in
other sorts of problem programs,

or maybe being with a therapist

if they feel they have been
brainwashed, or whatever.

But then again, you'd have people
walk into Walmart and have a heart attack.

And does that mean that
Walmart caused the heart attack?

Okay.

I've been going through
the documents

and audio and video files

that I want to take with me
to testify.

I'm really seeing how
as much as I thought

this was a curriculum
for growth,

it's really just,
it's, it's a weapon.

I consider myself

more credentialed as a,
a scientist, I guess.

And I don't have a lot
of high-level credentials,

but I think I'm a good
scientific thinker.

I think that my credentials ae

I'm an interesting person,
I'm a controversial person,

but most importantly,

I'm an unconventional person.

And when conventional
solutions don't work,

maybe the unconventional
way of thinking does.

This is all a big experiment
that we're doing.

You're part of it.

I did start reflecting on Jness,

which was the women's movement
that Keith started.

And I did have, like,
an upheaval inside.

So, I'm this guy

putting together this training.

I'm gonna somehow bring to light

how women are taught

about being a woman,
when I have no idea what it's like

being a woman.

But from Jness zero
through Jness 8 now,

is a type of
evolutionary process.

I can't say exactly
what's gonna happen.

And maybe some day,

there will be a
women's organization

that will be truly potent.

Do you all agree
it has to be done?

I don't know. Any of you
want to step up and do that,

or do you wanna just sit back?

I think that there's
a specific reason why

the 12 of us are here.

Given the nature
of our personalities,

what we've done
in the company so far,

and our apparent values.

If 12 women who are strong,
who are powerful,

hold this vision as important,

that in and of itself will
have a ripple effect, I believe,

on the company,
and on how we relate to one another.

- Yeah.
- Women work best together when we're together.

Allison was
kind of a head of Jness.

And so, for me, I think that
kept me removed from Jness.

I always got weird feelings
around Allison.

You have to know another human

to experience once ourselves.

Is that the right line?

- Close. Yeah, pretty much.
- Hey!

I'm paraphrasing Keith
Raniere quotes. Why not?

And I felt like I was
the only one who had that,

'cause people seemed to
really like her.

Like, she's quite,
she was quite seductive.

And so, she used Jness to
make a little fan club of, of women,

that were bowing down
to Allison.

And I'd also seen her
telling young girls

to count their calories
and get really skinny.

And she was actually
being rewarded and promoted.

It was just like,
what is going on?

For a while, she didn't
want to listen to me at all,

and everyone just kind of
made it my problem.

And eventually, Keith offered to run,
like a, kind of a mediation.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Looking back,
I think the women in DOS were, like,

using Jness as a way
to recruit all these girls.

I don't know
what the FBI's like,

but I don't know that
I'm ready for this meeting.

I have, like,
a thumb drive here.

You know, stuff about fraud,
human trafficking, money laundering.

All of these things
help establish a pattern.

And the pattern is what establishes,
like, you know, bad intent.

But because they
want to focus on DOS,

I want them to understand
that DOS is an effect

of a bigger problem.

DOS happened because

of years of indoctrination
that people have.

And I always say
the curriculum teaches me.

I'm the creator
of the curriculum.

I would like to think it is
something that is useful.

But really, if you want
to be a true scientist,

there has to be a base belief
that you don't know.

Maybe even can't know,

but you're gonna
fumble around and enjoy it.

You understand?

Yeah.

We were led to believe
that he, as a scientist,

had a way to look at things.

Okay.

And he would
say pretty shocking stuff.

But we were like, "It's a study. Oh,
we're experimenting."

Mm-hmm. For men,
ally is functional.

Okay.

For women, ally is social.

That women aren't
inherently reliable.

Women aren't inherently loyal.

Women aren't, um,

they don't keep secrets. They talk
amongst themselves, or whatever.

But it's like thinking
a child is your ally.

The idea I was told

was that they were being
pushed to define themselves

without being under our thumb,
so to speak.

Mm-hmm.

So you need a certain
emotional experience when you're a girl.

- Yes.
- A little girl.

And at first, I thought

women were actually having a
deep understanding of themselves.

And I feel like I have

no fear in shooting for
what I want, ideally.

There's no reason to settle.

And I see this really...

positively affecting my job.

And in interactions out...
Just in the world.

And it feels like there's such
a supportive, team feeling to it.

And I think,
to some degree, I was, like,

"God, I wish we had that."

My upbringing, as a young boy,

honestly, I thought to myself,
"Why am I so different from other men?"

I was a deeply sensitive kid.

And I could not understand
machismo at all.

And I just honestly hated it.

I wasn't an athletic guy.

I was, I was kinda a girly guy.

And I, I didn't make
male friends very easily.

I was teased relentlessly.

So I don't think I had a very clear
idea of who I wanted to be as a man.

Mark. Mark, Mark.

I went to Keith and
I remember saying to him,

"Men need education, too.

Men need, like,
understanding themselves."

And then he said something
like, you know,

"Wouldn't it be great if we
were the Society of Protectors?"

And when I made sense of it
for myself,

it felt like a wonderful,
noble thing.

Hello. My name is Keith Raniere,

and I'm the origin of
the Society of Protectors,

or more commonly known as SOP.

As men, we're the ones
who hold the doors,

and pick up the bags.

And more seriously,
we're the ones who go to war,

and we're taught that
we're to leave the ship last.

We are the doers. The
providers. We're the protectors.

But unfortunately, the world is
getting more and more comfortable.

And as a result,
there are more and more men

that are literally just boys
in adult male bodies.

And even if we live
a sedentary, comfortable life,

I think there's a part of us
that rises to the occasion.

To stand for something
that's important.

And our group is such a thing.

I don't know what to say. Um...

I guess the "please be seated"
thing works.

Wow, that's loud. This is good.

Good.

We were born,
to a degree, as males,

and we inherit this whole thing
in our culture of masculinity.

It's not something that's bad.

Power is not bad.

Even aggression,
things like that, are not bad.

That's what armies are made of.
That's what teams are made of.

That's one of the
wonderful benefits

of being in a male body.

And learning ideology
from the time you were young.

Because you can subjugate
your emotions.

You can subjugate your comfort.

You can subjugate all of
those needs to a purpose.

And the reason
I'm taking in the SOP stuff

is because the readiness drills
and the different drills we did,

I believe got used

for DOS.

There are adversities that are
bigger than the individual.

And some day,
that call's gonna come

at 4:00 in the morning,
and are you ready?

Are you ready to
push aside sleep,

push aside all your
other concerns,

organize what needs
to be done, and be there.

What do you think, man?

- Fucking cold, man.
- Fucking cold, right?

Yeah!

The only way
you know you have character

is when every fiber
in your body,

you're screaming from pain,

and yet, you stay.

Our commitment is our power.

And there was penances,

and like, you know, punishments
and things like that if you fucked up.

You know, you plank
for three minutes, you know.

Everything became about
a code of conduct.

The idea was this
Society of Protectors,

like, to protect the world
against evil.

But, uh, everything was
designed to protect him.

What does our
male sex drive feel like?

Anyone here.

Yes. All, all of those things.

It's this...

It is urgent.

So there's a very basic
part of us that just wants to

fuck something
to get that release.

For us, fucking, sex,

has nothing to do with
the other person, per se.

It's what's gonna feel good.

The primitive parts of us

are hungry, fucky beasties.

I mean, that's what
we wanna do. This...

I wanna fuck it. Fuck it. Fuck,
fuck, fuck.

I feel like fucking
something today.

God, I'm pissed! I wanna fuck something,
you know.

...Our basic
nature is we earn things.

We are always testing
if we're worthy.

To be accepted in any way.

If we conquer a woman,

if we grab the thing we wanna fuck,
whatever it is,

and fuck it,
that's a type of acceptance.

And you know what's
a better acceptance?

That in our most angry thing,
if they enjoy it.

And if we do whatever we want,

with our stuff...

And they like it.

That's acceptance.

I, at first,
I was like, Jesus Christ.

Can't we get to, like,
the deeper shit?

And I said to him, like, "Keith,

why does this have to be,
like, the porn weekend?"

And he said to me, "Because men
repress all these things they have.

"We have to clear out
the base issues

before we can get to
the higher aspirations."

I wanna be a dinosaur.

- Rawr!
- Are you a dinosaur?

I'm your,
I'm your dinosaur mommy.

So one thing that I... that ESP
was never able to cure me of

is my obsession about packing.

And, like, wanting to have everything
I could possibly need at all times.

I can probably use
33 percent less

of what you're gonna put.

- You think?
- Yeah.

You see that? He
doesn't trust my packing.

So I'm
packing for myself. And for Nippy.

He's going to LA to visit Mark

and I'm heading to New York
to testify for the FBI.

Fuck.

No, no, please put me down!

I'm realizing I'm actually,
like,

more anxious than
I thought about this trip.

Just like, ugh.

It's like looking back
on an old relationship,

and, like, reliving every
painful component of it.

- Daddy, stop!
- Hey, buddy.

One of the
things I'm gonna submit

are my calls with Lauren.

I'm gonna skip towards the end.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I have a... somebody's
nude photos in here.

What am I supposed to do
with those? Give them to the FBI?

Is that evidence?

Oh, here's something.

Lauren had sent a text.

"In our lives as women,
we always have a back door.

"Keeping the back door open
gives us the wiggle room

"to never have discipline
or follow through.

"We need to learn commitment,
and there's no place in society to get it,

because we can get out of
anything. Everything."

So, Lauren's saying...
Oh, my God.

Um...

that we're weak,
that we're princesses.

That we have no character.

We're sitting here with a
bunch of princes and princesses.

And we look at each other
that way.

The princesses look at the
princes to go and slay the dragons,

and the princes look
at the princesses to,

to be kept in a bubble
and to look pretty,

but never to really
achieve anything. Much.

But men have a type of hardship
that women don't understand,

and yes, women have a hardship
that men don't understand.

Really like in 2012,

Jness opened up
to men and women.

This is going to be
quite a wonderful forum.

It was pitched to us

to understand the opposite se,
and, like,

why don't men and
women get along?

I want to ask you about
a particular word.

It's a word that is
used against us

in a sort of weaponized,
mad-dogging sort of way.

- And that word is "crazy."
- Mm-hmm.

- Yes.
- I feel like this word embodies

a lot of what we're
talking about here.

I was looking at

what's known as the
Stanford Prison project.

They took what they
thought were a very good,

normal group of students,

and they made half
of them prison guards,

and half of them prisoners.

And they took the psych
department basement

in Stanford University

and made it into
a little mock prison.

I have a video here from
YouTube that describes this.

So,
they started to play the roles,

and the roles were
mutually reinforcing.

And the more they believed
themselves to be prisoners,

the more the guards believed
themselves to be guards.

...you can't hold your
emotions in check.

Can't keep your emotions
out of your decision.

Do what you feel,
as opposed to do what is right.

From our perspective,

you can't keep your
feelings out of it.

And on the other hand,

us guys, we are oafs.

We are brutish machines.

We've been brought up
to take those emotions,

and bottle them.

All of our emotions
bottled so deep,

most of us don't
even recognize them.

I grew up with four boys,

and there's always pressure
to perform and be the best.

You know, I played sports,
and sports fortified that right away,

you know,
and I played quarterback.

When you play quarterback,
you don't show emotion.

You have to be Joe Cool.

And I was pushing myself,

but in a way that wasn't
particularly nice to myself.

And consequently, I felt like I
was trained to hide my sensitivity.

And that behavior was rewarde.

And I just think
that's a time bomb.

So the Jness tracks,
how they were sold to us,

was using the strengths,
generally speaking, of women...

Helping men where they
felt emotionally blocked,

to feel safe in evolving.

And so the idea is,

if women could have
more compassion

for what it must be like for us,

then men could have
a deeper understanding

of what it must be
like to be women.

You know, for example,
what they struggle with.

And what it's like to
be suppressed by men.

And then we could understand
how we participate in doing i,

develop a sensitivity to it,
and then we can evolve it.

I'm gonna apologize
ahead of time

to all the women,

because I'm going to really...

say things that
are inflammatory.

Is everyone okay with that?

Yes. - Now...

All the women in here.

Do you understand...

All right. I have to get in the
right frame of mind for this.

Do you understand
why we hate you?

Do you understand why
you're obnoxious bothers?

Why all your little
whining and complaining,

and all this,
this garbage that you do

and how much you,
you think you do,

and it's just all
a bunch of crap.

Male perspective.

That's not saying that is true.

I'm giving you the
broad strokes of the thing.

You're outrageously entitled,
you're spoiled,

and no,
you don't earn shit. Do you get it?

So,
when you go and you put on those tears,

there's part of us that
absolutely hates you.

You are the source
of all our punishment.

You are the source
of all our liability.

You are the source
of all our pain.

You're the source
of all our aloneness.

Everything that we're about,

you go against by going,
"Wah, wah, wah, wah."

Deep inside all men,
when you cry,

we remember back,

part of us,
even if it's not consciously, I believe,

subconsciously,
the time when we were a little boy,

and we just wanted
Mommy's approval.

We just wanted to be held.

We wanted to be taken care of.

We just wanted love.

Do you understand, though,

that that's not
allowed to little boys?

Men, we take women's power away,

and we hold them as prisoners.

Can any woman here
say how she holds

men as prisoners?

Do you know what the force is?

- - Yes.

And it's control through...

Sex.

'Cause the reason why you,

you hold on to the sex thing

is it's the only way you
believe you can survive.

We thought it was helping us

become more aware of
the things we do as women

that don't serve us.

The more we
went into this curriculum,

it became really misogynistic.

But, like,
still in the name of empowerment.

Woo!

Have you seen my boots?

Mm-hmm.

But no, it's the...

Yeah!

Mm-hmm.

No...

- Mm-hmm.
- Um...

...if I do.

All of these things,
if you assume good intent,

may be weird, may be extreme.

But it's always
to help you grow.

I didn't understand
what I was doing,

actually, to undermine myself.

I've never experienced
that kind of strength

and solidity in
myself as a woman.

I w... I wish it for all
my women friends.

It's why I'm such an
advocate for Jness,

and I can't speak
more highly of it.

Yeah, and it's great,
'cause I feel not only

that can I appreciate him more,

but I feel so much
more appreciated.

Like, just,
it... It's so much more loving.

As soon as you recognize

that the person masterminding it

has bad intent,

and is manipulating
women for his own pleasure,

everything changes.

When I went into the Jness tracks,
I carried with me

years and years and
years and years and years

wrought with insecurity
and confusion,

covered up by a whole
heck of a lot of ego and pride.

I've left the Jness tracks
with a clearer sense of me.

A true experience of success.

And a lot of hope for my
relationships in the future.

Allie and I were close.

And then she moved to Albany.

She, you know,
put her career on hold.

I think she thought that that was
where she was gonna get the growth.

And Keith was gonna help her.

Welcome to "Family Feud,"
ESP style!

She had had a lot of success

early on as a child actor,

and I think,
flaunted that. She was very self-assured.

If somebody was
prideful or arrogant,

he would do whatever
he thought was necessary

to break them of that.

We are humble.

And without pride.

And I think
once he broke someone's pride,

they were more
susceptible to being molded

into whoever he
wanted them to be.

Love comes not
from the receiving.

It comes from the giving.

It comes from the
sacrifice and the pain.

- That's how we know it.
- Mm-hmm.

That isn't to say it doesn't
exist in joy and in happiness.

- But we know it through our pain.
- Mm-hmm.

And if you have a fear of pain,

you have a fear of
knowing your own love.

We experience our
love not needing return.

We find love is its own gift.

And the great pain
experienced through love...

Mm. Actually deep joy.

She just went straight in.

We never... And never came back.

Come on, get in here.

Camera's rolling.
Camera's rolling.

I don't really have a sense of,
like, the decline,

but I remember a
couple key moments,

like asking her to
come to our wedding,

and she said that she
had to check with Keith.

And I was like, "Is he,
is he your dad?

Like, why do you,
why do you need to check with him?"

And she's like, "Oh, you know,
I make a lot of impulsive decisions,

and I told him that I would check
with him before I ever leave home."

When we left, I did text her.

"Listen, if you ever want to talk,
call me.

"I'm not your enemy. I won't
punish you or blame you.

"I heard you're gonna take
the hit for Keith for DOS.

"We all know
that's a load of shit.

"I have your back on this,
Allie.

"Stop with the penance.
Stop with the lies.

I love you and care for you,
and I'll always be here for you."

Catherine's coming.

Okay,
so now they've expanded the investigation.

They've expanded their team

of people whose... the
task force is now bigger.

It is.

Because this is the only place...

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
- We are Deep Throating it.

The person
that I spoke with who is

one of their star witnesses,

she kept stressing

that it was... that they
kept questioning her

about Allison
Mack's involvement.

They kept ma...
They kept asking her,

"Well,
do you think Allison instigated this,

"or was this Keith who asked...

You know, was Keith..."

- That was very important to them.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it was a lot
of stress on her.

I, I swear to God,
I think Allison is going to be arrested

for sex trafficking.

I'm heading to
New York City to testify for the FBI.

I didn't sleep. I
think I was sort of...

in my head, kind of...

hashing out what's
about to happen.

I'm the only one
with a high rank...

That was a high rank and was in DOS,
so...

That's a unique situation. I have lots to
tell them about how the company was run.

I have lots to tell them about,

you know,
things that Lauren said.

As much as I see her
as a victim of Keith,

I also think that what
she's done is awful.

Society of Protectors.

But I didn't hold the
leader accountable.

I didn't call him
out on his shit.

I got played,
and I helped this guy build

whatever the shit he
was building around him.

And I was part of that,
and I was complicit to it.

- No.
- Okay. I still have 'em.

At the time, I felt purposeful.

But afterwards, I thought, "What a
fucking waste of my life." You know?

- Well, it was always nebulous. It was a concept.
- To build obedience.

- Right.
- You're enrolling people into a concept,

- and asking them to have blind faith in something.
- Right.

But for whatever reason,
that was intriguing to me.

And the opportunity of like, "Dude,
I can lead this. This is in my wheelhouse."

- And it's fuckin' stupid. It's embarrassing.
- Yeah.

He used all of our
reputations to shore himself up.

'Cause really, he's,
he's got nothing.

He was a judo
champion at age 11.

Come on,
Mark. Judo champion. Age 11.

I bought it, though.

He can roll around the floor

and pretend to do judo.

And he can hit a volleyball.

- And he can head-fuck you.
- Listen...

To think that we were unwittingly
a part of some sort of abuse...

- That's the thing I struggle with.
- Yeah.

And it's not that
I... It poisoned me,

- because I am a good man.
- Mm-hmm.

- Just messes me up.
- Don't you want me to... Can I...

Can I put it in
something that...

- Reframe it for you?
- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

The arrogance, pride,

and the sanctimonious nature

in which we went about

- what we thought we were building...
- Mm-hmm.

Our pride is the thing
that helped facilitate it.

And, and, and we fucked up.

Boldface fucking lying.

- Thinking you're doing something noble.
- Mm-hmm.

So...

I don't know how
you un-fuck your head

from doing stuff
like... You know.

I'm having a hard time
un-fucking my head.

I trained people

to heil Hitler.

How do you un-ring that
bell in your own psyche?

So abuse is,
is a made-up human construct.

And a lot of times,
the screaming of abuse is abuse in itself.

How we illustrate
human nobility,

how we are noble,

is to get rid of the concept of victim,
like that.

- Right.
- There are things that are terribly wrongful.

But the person receiving it

only decides they're a
victim if they accept that.

Keith said to me one day,
he said,

"Uh, the women would like to
do SOP." And I'm like, "What?"

And Raniere would say,
"Look, you know,

they do need to know what it's
like to grow up like a little boy."

The idea we were being sold was,

you need to walk in
each other's shoes

to truly respect
and love each other.

I'm asking the women first.

How bad do you want this to be?

No,
I mean... This... There's gonna be...

Rough. Rough.

Rough?

And the women
signed up for SOP complete,

knowing that it was
gonna be a rough run.

But I thought that it was
something that would help me

understand men more.

In this position,
you do a wall sit.

And get ready.

And go.

Keith always taught
us that men get their pride broken

you know, in the, um,
locker room or on the sports field.

And women somehow get
away with not being humiliated,

which is what makes them
so prideful and princess-y,

and stuff like this.

I mean, essentially,
we were subjecting ourselves

to the men being in charge.

Not unlike the Stanford
Prison Experiment.

Let's put people in these,
in these roles and see where it will go.

When a man looks at you,

all of you women,
what we see is a bunch of little kids.

We see little kindergarteners.

And when you try to do something physical,
it's cute as hell.

Can you come up a
second? Just wanted to...

to demonstrate one thing. 'Cause
men are always, as I said, sussing out...

You know, are we...

She's pretty good!

But she went...

That's good. You
do that back to me.

No, really.

Do it.

I don't take you seriously.

We didn't want to be princess-y.

We wanted to be strong.

Yeah.

Yeah. -

Yeah.

When you're a little boy,

if you're weak,
you get picked on,

and you get picked on more,
and if you tell,

you get picked on more.

So remember, this is to help.

I got brought
up to the front of the room

and humiliated
with a prize ribbon.

Best Display of Ass,"

because my jeans were too tight.

We were basically punished

in all kinds of ways. Like,
for example,

I remember sitting in a group
with a lot of women and one man.

And he basically
would fault you.

Like,
give you negative points for anything.

And the thinking was that

this is what women
do to men all day long.

Complaining and nitpicking.

Women,
you have to learn to yield.

When you're a little boy,

a matter of fact,
you yield all the time.

You yield to adults,
you yield to women,

and you yield
to all little girls.

For some of the men,
I think it was a power trip.

They enjoyed it.

But for a lot of the men,
I know it was hard for them.

I can argue
that I wasn't an asshole

like some of the other guys.

But I showed up.

And that's a hard
pill to swallow.

And I would talk to,
to Keith about it.

And he goes, "Yeah, but...

"You... You guys are...

You guys aren't willing to do
what's required to help people."

He'd say,
"It's your own weakness.

"You identify
yourself as a little boy.

"Grow up.

Grow up."

And the reason we trusted
his bizarre experiment,

and the reason it's so important
for the FBI to understand,

is because he showed
us all these things,

like the Stanford
Prison Experiment.

So, just get used to it.

And then it was sort of like,

"Okay, well, we don't want to
have those bad things happen.

Don't get lost,
you know, in the roles."

And yet,
he would demand that we play these roles

that were horrible.

I think this
was all his way of seeing

how much power does he
have with men and women.

Who's willing to do what?

Who's willing to put themselvs
in uncomfortable situations,

so he could take
advantage of it.

Women, I've already determined

you won't be able to handle 1.

You want me to tell
you what 10 is like?

Yes. - Okay.

Let's say you wore an
extra tight shirt or whatever.

Like, uh, there's a woman here,
let's say,

who has her breasts showing.

All the guys will grab them.

- That's a 10?
- That's a 10.

That's what
happens to little boys.

Daddy!

It's been so long!

- Fuji. Cutie.
- Oh, I missed you, Fuji!

- What a cutie. - Yeah.

Come on! - Vicente: Come on.

Fuji! Away! Away, dog.

- Away!
- Come on, Fuji!

The first time I went to Albany,

Mark and Bonnie
generously hosted us.

So I saw, because they left the door open,
that there was like...

I, you would have thought,
like, a Great Dane's bed

- next to, next to the marital bed on the floor.
- Come on!

- It wasn't a dog's bed.
- Well, it's like the size of a dog's bed.

Like a large dog,
that was like, on the floor.

And I thought to myself,
I don't remember them having a pet.

...Who the fuck
is sleeping on the floor?

Did I ask you?

I don't remember,

but I do remember
that I was doing that.

She did admit it to
me that she was...

It's not an admission. Like,
I was probably proud of it.

Like, yeah, I'm trying to, like,
give myself some discipline.

'Cause I,
I spoke out against Mark,

so I'm gonna sleep on
the floor for three days.

- That you would be...
- To be honest,

- I was...
- sleeping on the floor next to your husband.

I'm like, oh,
my God. This is so messed up.

- I didn't like it, but I had to.
- I just... I won't...

I will remember not to
become part of this community.

I just thought there
was something wrong with me

that I didn't like penance.

You okay? Yeah, she's not okay,

- by the way.
- Yeah, I'm not feeling great right now.

She's being
re-traumatized. I can feel it right now.

- I'm not.
- So this is like,

- a super bad idea right this second.
- That's true.

It's so easy to,
to shame. You know?

We're not at the point we
can make fun of these things.

We're not.

It's not funny that she
made a bed on the floor.

That's not funny for me.

'Cause I'm the guy that
sat there and thought,

"Well,
I guess that's a good idea. I guess.

"I mean,
my wife's sleeping on the floor.

I mean, I don't know. Maybe
that's... I guess that's good."

What, am I fuckin' stupid?

Of course I'm fuckin' stupid!

I know that already.

I'm okay right now,
just so you know.

- But thank you.
- I understand, but I'm not.

We're not fucked up,
strange monsters

that made bad
choices our whole life.

We didn't join a cult.

Nobody joins a cult.

Nobody.

They join a good thing.

And then they realize
they were fucked.

Nobody's saying,
"Yes! Let me go and join

"this stupid,
fuckin' thing that's gonna destroy my life,

and everybody I love."

Nobody does that!

I'm hurting so fuckin' bad.

I wanted to be a good guy.

I still wanna
be... I don't give...

I don't know what a good
guy is anymore. I have no idea.

I helped create a
men's movement,

and those techniques were
used against all these girls.

Do you women want respect?

How are you gonna
get respect being,

"Gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme"?

When all of the guys
perceive themselves as,

we're lifting the weight!

And you say, "Well, look,
I go out there and I do this,

and I do that and. I
could be just as good as you."

No, you can't.

You can't be as good
as men. You know why?

We won't let you.

Isn't that crazy?

That one's almost gone.

But that one was... This
was always very thin.

Like even on the day of,
it was thinner.

So I don't think that's
gonna get to that,

but at least it'll get flat.

It's more flat.
It's not as keloid.

This should be
an ad for Dermatix.

How to get rid of your
sex cult scar brand.

Sex cult brand scar.

How to get rid of
your sex "crult"...

Would you like to get rid
of your sex cult brand scar?

This is how.

With Dermatix.

Just a few motions
every day. Rubbing it in...

makes that sex cult
brand scar go away,

just easily over time.

Then I just rub the
shit out of it.

This will capture
what Sarah's life is like.

I just had my meeting
with the FBI today.

I gave them all my evidence on Lauren,
Keith, DOS, everything.

So relieved it's over.

The shame in our
marriage is so profound, because...

it's so personal.

Because I watched the...
I watched the damage.

And I'm trying desperately
to find some dignity.

But, like,
I just hear damage everywhere.

- All right. - Okay?

Mm-hmm.

Don't fucking
hold anything back.

Tell the truth.