Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath (2016–…): Season 0, Episode 0 - The Jehovah's Witnesses - full transcript

What is happening

here may be unique
in American history.

The marchers you see
are not protesting

unfair labor practices or
advocating a political cause.

They are here to
challenge the conscience

of the wealthy and
powerful Watchtower

Society, better known to the
public as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Jehovah's Witnesses have
a massive international

organization with millions
of members and hundreds

of millions of dollars.

You can't see the
hurt that we feel.



But we have so much pain
because so many of us

are separated from our families
because of the Watchtower

Organization's rules.

Unfair, unkind, unloving,
un-Christian rules.

The organization sets itself
up in the place of Christ.

And that is something that
the Bible does not teach.

The reason we are here
today is to attract attention

to a genuine false prophet,
a genuine false prophet

that Jesus warned us about.

They have lied to us.

They have deceived us.

And we have that
document the evidence.

How is everybody?

- Welcome to church.
- Yeah, really.



Thank you so much.

I feel so far away
from you still.

Hello!

It's nice to have
a woman in charge.

She's not in charge!

Mike is in charge.

But really, we want
to thank you guys.

The reason we are
here tonight is

because we have been
reached out to many times

over our series of Scientology.

And people have made the
connection between Scientology

and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

We know nothing about
the Jehovah's Witnesses.

We went into this
like, well, what is it.

And why is it being
connected to Scientology?

And so, we're really
here tonight to listen

to your stories and to learn.

Hopefully, we will do
right by your stories.

We feel like we owe the people
who have asked for our help

to actually do something.

There's a lot
of people watching

this who will be saying,
thank you for doing this.

I think like most people,
what I understood of Jehovah's

Witnesses were just
that they, you know,

knocked on people's doors.

They were certainly
lovely people.

And they just
wanted you to join.

But as I started to
look on the internet,

like, what is going
on with the Jehovah...

that people keep
saying, you know,

it's just like Scientology.

Take Scientology, add
eight million members,

and you've got
Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well, that's what
is so crazy, Lloyd.

It was like, eight million?

Like, wow, this is much
bigger than our little cult.

Once you get in,
it's hard to get out.

Right!

But also, what was
really shocking to

me was the similar policies.

There's policies, and the
policies are everything.

So it is very similar.

I just want to make sure that,
ultimately, we don't lose sight

of the fact that it's easy
to make fun of belief,

but what we're
really interested in

is focusing on the abuse
and the hurt and the pain

that people suffer as a result.
They're not separate things.

You can't get people to do
crazy stuff unless you get them

to believe that
this is the only way

to get to where they're going.

You know, like, if you don't
have the idea that there is

something greater, something
that you're going to achieve,

some carrot at the
end of the stick,

you're not going to get
people to whack that stick.

You've got to have the carrots.

Armageddon is absolutely
central to Jehovah's

Witnesses' belief and practice.

So look at the world today, a
Jehovah's Witness might say.

What do you see?

Corruption, lawlessness,
oppression, and poverty.

Then imagine a world where
none of those things are there.

A world at peace,
tranquility, harmony.

And then imagine what
would be necessary to move

from this present
stage of corruption

to that stage of
peace and justice.

That movement, that
cataclysmic change

is the battle of Armageddon.

And that Armageddon,
for Jehovah's Witnesses,

is not just a distinct
possibility in the future.

It could happen today.

It could happen tomorrow.

It could happen next week.

So the crucial
concern, then, becomes

proving yourself worthy to
survive, because time is short.

And Jehovah god
will soon lay low

this wicked system of things.

And not everyone will survive.

We will not need doctors
or lawyers after Armageddon,

but we will need
carpenters and plumbers and

similar construction trades.

It requires faith to
decline higher education

and have the confidence
that our material

needs will be cared for by
training in other fields.

The idea of Armageddon in the
minds of the Jehovah's Witness

is that the world is under
the control of Satan.

We are on borrowed time.

The Gentile times is like a
period in which humans have

been allowed, as an
experiment, to prove that they

fail at governing themselves.

And all of the chaos in the
world is attributed to the fact

that they have failed.

And what will fix the
problem is Armageddon,

when the whole slate
gets wiped clean

by the annihilation of
everyone who basically

isn't a Jehovah's Witness.

Which is 99.9% of
the world's population.

And we have been
told that it can

happen with a natural disaster.

There will be floods,
fires, all types of things

are going to happen.

But the world will be
destroyed as we know it.

From the time that you're
a child, you're taught,

this is the truth.

And you're told it's the truth.

And if you do not
follow the truth,

you will be slaughtered
just like everyone else

that's not a Jehovah's Witness.

Imagine from the time
you're a toddler,

as long as you can
understand words,

you're being told Armageddon
is coming any minute.

If you're not 100% doing what
the witnesses tell you to do,

you are going to
die at Armageddon.

It gets so embedded in your
soul and in your consciousness

that I had the most
horrific nightmares

for at least 10 years after
leaving the organization.

That nightmare was
always the same.

The sky was black.

I am laying out on the
ground as if I'm crippled,

reaching out to my family,
who is all standing

there with their arms crossed.

Just looking down at
me, shaking their head.

And they all just said,
you made your choice.

You decided to leave
God's true organization.

OK, so the concept is
that everybody would die,

everybody would be cleansed,
and you all would survive?

144,000 will rule from heaven.

The rest will live on an
Earth that is a paradise.

So there's eight million
Jehovah's Witnesses,

but only 144,000 of
them will make it?

Go to heaven.

Go to heaven.

The others will be in
the paradise on Earth.

In your current body?

Yeah.

You'd grow to perfection
during a 1,000 year reign.

So, like, 25,
30, I'm guessing.

25, 30.

You would grow to
perfection, so yes, you would

grow to your healthiest state.

And also, you
would live with...

like, animals would not
be carnivores anymore.

You'd be living with tigers
and lions and petting them?

Yeah.

I was also taught
that there was going

to be a Resurrection, that
people would be brought

back to life in this new world.

They teach you to
be good salesmen.

I remember I would
look at obituaries

and find people that
have lost someone

and write them a letter,
and then go contact them.

And right away, in
their grief, they

were ready to hear something.

Oh, live forever?

My child or my grandma
could be resurrected?

I believed... being
a Jehovah's Witness...

I'll get to see
relatives who have died,

family members who died,
loved ones who have died.

And especially when
my mother died,

my thought process was,
that's the only shot I've

got at seeing my mother again.

So I need to be the best
Jehovah's Witness I can be.

Just because you identify
as a Jehovah's Witness,

though, doesn't mean
you're going to make it.

Because if you are not 100%
faithful in your heart...

and only God knows your heart...

then you also could be
killed at Armageddon.

So you're taking a chance.

You're not sure if
you're going to make it.

Right.

And it really sets
up the congregation

to where you're always watching
your brother and sister.

Are they truly faithful
servants of God?

Well, I thought I saw him
going into an R-rated movie,

I'd better tell the elders.

So take us through, really
quickly, how it's set up.

So you have the
governing body.

They vote themselves in.

Think of it as an
old guys' club.

And they will decide for
themselves who joins.

Then below the governing
body committees,

you have branch committees,
who are responsible for each

of the countries.

From the branch committee, you
go to the circuit overseers.

The circuit overseers
make sure that all

of the individual
congregations are

in conformity with the
organization as a whole.

And underneath the
circuit overseers,

you have in each
congregation the bodies

of elders, who are again
responsible for making sure

that the policy is implemented,
that the judicial matters are

handled according to what the
governing body want them to do.

So God is talking...

Jehovah is talking... to
the seven or eight dudes

in New York.

Yeah.

What I'm trying to
understand for me.

Jehovah is talking to somebody.

- Mm-hmm.
- Yeah.

Right?

And they're like, uh-huh.

Writing it down, got you.

Got you.

Got you.

They would say that
they're reading the Bible.

And as they're
reading the Bible,

the ideas are coming to them.

But rather than it
being their ideas,

it's guidance from Jehovah.

OK.

And then that teaching
is sent down in this...

you keep referring
to publication.

So is that the Bible?

I don't know what that is.

It's their publications,
"The Watchtower".

So they write... they write...

They write these
publications, yeah.

You don't really have policy
books with "Watchtower".

What you have are
the literature.

You have "The Watchtower"
and "Awake!" magazines.

You have the books.

You have documents
that are eyes only.

Some documents are
only for people

who work at the headquarters.

Some documents only for elders.

And the ordinary Jehovah's
Witness doesn't get

to see many of these documents.

But they're all
bringing the policies

down, the new light down.

And they're all enforceable,
regardless of whether you have

all the information or not.

We're being indoctrinated.

We're taught not to question.

We're taught to
repeat, repeat, repeat.

It's underlined.

It's repeat.

You don't ask a question.

You don't give your opinion.

You don't take it out
of context in any way.

You have to follow what's
written by the word, 100%.

The governing body
loves you very much.

The elders love you very much.

And these ones will
tell you the truth,

even though at times, it may
not be what you want to hear.

They will not tickle your ears,
perhaps like ones at school

or in the neighborhood
who don't really love you

or have your best
interest at heart.

But please believe those
who will tell you the truth

because they love you.

So what is the life
of a Jehovah's Witness?

Like, the everydayness of it.

Filled with a lot
of guilt, for one.

Every thought you manifest
in your brain, you question.

Oh gosh, you know, have I...

have I had a wrong motive, a
wrong desire, a wrong thought?

So your daily
life was consumed

with what you were doing for...

Reading, studying.

...your church?

Even when children go
to school, they are told,

it's your
responsibility to preach

while you are in the classroom.

That's your special territory,
because the congregation

can't get into your school.

Only you can.

So you're not just
going to learn,

you're also going to teach.

Yeah.

Well, my childhood
was, well, Sunday

morning, we go to
what I now reference

as church or the Kingdom Hall.

Then there was the
door-to-door work after that.

Monday night was
home Bible study.

Tuesday, school.

Tuesday night, meeting.

Wednesday, school.

Wednesday night, preparing for
the Thursday night meeting.

And Thursday, school.

Thursday night, meeting,
which is two hours long.

So you have little kids
who are out at church

until 9:15 at night.

Sometimes people would go out
and service Friday nights.

Or they'd have a big
get-together and study for,

maybe, service the next day.

So then Saturday, you get up.

You have Saturday
service, and maybe

that goes into the afternoon.

And that's before you reach
the age of getting a job.

It's 24/7, 365.

We don't deviate from
any other activity,

other than what is
to serve Jehovah.

We didn't celebrate holidays.

I remember having a costume
party for the kids in January.

Oh, next assembly.

We are not to have any
kind of costume parties,

you know, at the assembly.

And I'm like, for freak's sake.

It wasn't for a holiday.

It was for little kids to
dress up and have a good time!

So I want to ask you, so
there is... but there is no

celebrating birthdays, right?

No.

There's no Halloween.

There is no Christmas.

No.

Growing up as a
Jehovah's Witness,

you're not allowed to
celebrate Valentine's Day,

Christmas, Thanksgiving,
Mother's Day, Father's Day.

Definitely not your birthday.

There's no commemorations.

And in school, if you're lucky
enough to go to public school

and not be home
schooled, you can't

get involved in any
extracurricular activities.

So it's a very
lonely experience.

As you're a child
and you're constantly

thinking about Armageddon,
one of the things that's

very important to you
is to make sure you're

following all of the rules.

Saying no to the things
you're supposed to say no to,

saying yes to the things
you're supposed to say yes to.

But finding out that things were
bad when I didn't even know,

when I was trying to do
what was right in school,

and then coming home to find
out that I did something wrong.

For example, I can
remember an occasion

where there was an election for
a class president, you know.

I was in the third grade.

And, you know, I did my
little mental checklist.

OK, yeah, I guess that's fine.

So I, you know, I ran and I won.

And I was very excited.

And, you know, I gave a
speech and all of this stuff.

And I came home and I
told my parents, hey,

I won class president.

And they kind of just looked
at each other like, mm.

Son, we have to talk to you.

Only to find out
that that's also

wrong in the eyes of
Jehovah's Witnesses,

because of their
views on politics.

When you go into
your young mind,

you know, your growing up,
everybody felt alienated.

Everybody felt, you know, they
wanted to be part of life.

Going to a regular
school, you know, it had

to be really hard and painful.

I mean, already it's
hard to go to school.

You already feel insecure.

You know, you you're
being looked at.

Everyone wants to
be just the same

when you're going to school.

But, I mean, I would have to
sit outside in the hallway

while they were having a
party for whatever holiday,

and look like I was a bad child.

I never got to go to the
skating parties or school dances

or be in any sports.

And, you know, now I know a lot
of people I went to high school

with.

And they'll just
assume I was there.

And I'm like, no,
I was never there.

But what happens all the
time is it becomes normal.

You start to think,
well, this is normal.

And actually, I
don't like Christmas.

And actually, I
don't like birthdays.

So that by the time
you're an adult,

you don't feel as though,
in some cases, you lost out.

Sometimes you do.

But most witnesses,
if you ask them,

do you resent not
celebrating birthdays?

They'll be like, no,
I'm happy without that.

Well, yeah.

No holiday has a
special meaning to me.

And I don't know who
else can speak to that,

but they just don't.

And I've been removed
for a long time.

But they just never had
that special meaning

that you would get
from being raised

with something like that.

It's not that I hate
them or I'm against them.

They just don't have any
special meaning to me.

Because you have no
memories connected to it.

No good memories.

We sat in the library or
outside of the classroom.

We never were allowed to
associate or participate.

I want to ask everybody
here, like, your feeling

toward holidays now.

Do any of you have
a hard time, like,

remembering people's
birthdays or getting

excited for Christmas?

It's all different for us.

Because we all grew up this way.

We don't relate to
holidays, even now.

Every little thing
has to be controlled

by the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Because if they
give you something

like a birthday, well, then
you realize, I do have value.

I do get one day out of
the year where I'm happy

and this is all about me.

And we get to celebrate.

They need to make sure
you know you're nothing.

You're absolutely nothing.

Everything needs to go
to the glory of God,

towards the religion.

And why would you
want to be doing

any of these things anyways?

Because it's not serving God.

We should not let
anything distract or impede

our spiritual progress.

We don't want to miss
opportunities to strengthen

our faith, to bond with
our brothers and sisters,

and most importantly,
to bond with Jehovah.

I remember a kid who just
wanted to ride his bike,

a BMX competition or something.

His entire family
was looked down

upon as if they
were just shitting

on the bottom of your shoe.

Right.

Just because he
wanted to ride a bike.

I remember my heart breaking
when I would see the kids

not being able to play sports.

But if I went home
and I told my parents,

I would really love to wrestle.

Not only is that against the
Jehovah's Witness teachings,

not only was I wrong for that,
I would now be an embarrassment

to my family and to God.

Everything is, am I
doing the right thing?

Is this the correct move?

Is this what a Jehovah's
Witness would do?

That level of
indoctrination week in,

week out, it stays with you.

And it changes you as a person.

When I was in the first
grade and I was five years old,

there was this kid that
I used to play basketball

with at lunch and recess.

And I remember, on one occasion,
he made a statement indicating

that I was his friend.

And at the age of
five or six, that sent

alarm bells off in my head.

Because this worldly
kid just referred...

for something I've done
has made this worldly kid

think that I'm his friend.

So the next day, I
showed up at school

and I spoke to him while he
was on the basketball court.

And I said, you know, yesterday
you said we're friends.

But I'm very sorry, you're not
one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

So we can't be friends.

You can't even create
friendships with anybody

in the school or
your neighborhood,

because they're worldly.

They're destined to
destruction at Armageddon.

And it was a
terrifying feeling

to think I could be playing
with this little girl

or this little boy the next
day, and then, all of a sudden,

they...

I could be watching
them all die.

It's not normal to be raised
as a child and going to school

and looking around
at your classmates

and thinking, Fred, Sally,
Emmett, they all deserve to die

if Armageddon comes tomorrow.

That is not a healthy way
for a child to be raised.

How many actually
told other kids that?

I remember saying
that to close friends.

But you're going
to die if you don't

become a Jehovah's Witness.

And I love you.

And, of course,
they're looking at you

like they know that old age is
going to get them, at least.

But we thought we were
going to live forever.

Keep studying the truth.

Keep spreading the truth.

Keep loving the truth and
Jehovah, the god of truth.

Hold fast to the truth
as to a lifeline,

as this is what it is.

By staying faithful, whether
you'll survive Armageddon

or are resurrected in
paradise, you will be

a victorious champion of truth.

So disfellowshipping is
when one of the members

commits a sin, breaks
one of the rules.

They're brought in
front of a committee

of three of the elder men.

They decide whatever crime
or whatever sin that they

committed is worthy of them
being disfellowshipped,

which is you are
basically shunned.

The people in the
congregation are

not allowed to speak to you.

They're not supposed to
speak to you, say hello.

Including your family?

Including your family.

What are the sins
that get you brought

in front of this committee?

Well, they can be the things
that you could typically think

of, like, you know,
having sex with somebody

who you're not married to.

Fornication, they would
call that, or adultery.

But it could be things that
the Jehovah's Witnesses have

deemed sinful, like
smoking cigarettes

or celebrating the holidays.

Or a person could
be disfellowshipped

if he came to an
understanding and didn't

believe that the
Jehovah's Witnesses were

the true organization of God.

Then you also could be
disfellowshipped for that, too.

The elders have a book
that they use called

"Shepherd the Flock of God".

And it is a book
exclusively for the elders.

So if you're not an elder, which
the vast majority of Jehovah's

Witnesses are not,
you don't really

know how serious your sin is.

Really, you can be
DFed for anything.

DFed?

DFed is what we
in the know call it.

OK.

Because I want to
be in the know.

I don't want to be saying...

I explain it to outsiders
as excommunicated.

If you don't believe to the
letter whatever the teaching

is, the accepted
teaching at that time is,

you are worthy of death.

And why were you
disfellowshipped, Nate?

I've been
disfellowshipped twice.

When I was 19, I fell in love
with a beautiful, worldly girl.

And being a good
Jehovah's Witness,

I was hoping to convert her,
bring her into the flock.

And so, I went to the elders.

And I said, she's
coming to meetings now.

I would like to be
able to study with her.

And the elders said to
me, we hear that you've

been seeing her on the side.

Has anything been happening?

So I said yes.

And they started
quizzing me right then

and there on what happened.

I was crying.

I was confessing my sins.

And they just said,
no, we no longer

want you in our congregation.

You will be disfellowshipped.

When you get excommunicated,
disfellowshipped like that,

it's just devastating.

They took away all my friends.

They took away all my family.

So all I was left was
alone, crying to myself.

I have deserted God and
God has deserted me.

I literally started
self-harming myself.

I need to punish myself
more than what I was

getting from the organization.

It drove me to a point
of near insanity,

to where if suicide
wasn't an even bigger sin,

that may have been my option.

I attended the meeting where
I was disfellowshipped.

When I walked in, everybody
greeted me, said hello.

I sat in the back of the hall.

Once they announced my name
as being disfellowshipped,

at the end of the
night, I walked out

and nobody said a word.

For six months, I went
to every single meeting.

After six months,
I wrote a letter.

I would like to be
considered for reinstatement.

They kept delaying
the meeting with me

over and over, because it just
wasn't convenient for them.

And why is that, Nate?

Why did you feel you
need to get back in?

Because this was all I knew.

That's what really gets me.

Because I will have
people cross a room

to come up to me
to shake my hand,

but my mother wasn't
at my wedding.

And she doesn't call
her granddaughter.

And I look at this
and I'm just shocked.

And I've had to come
to terms with this.

That I bought a big dining
room table years ago,

with the thought of someday
having a future of a family

there.

I am the start of that family.

I am the trunk of that tree.

It starts with me.

And I will never be able to
have her come to this table.

She is more than welcome to,
but she will never choose to.

You are taught from the time
that you are an infant, as

early as you can
understand words,

this disfellowshipping is
a part of the Jehovah's

Witness doctrine.

If they don't have anything
to take away from you,

then there is no real threat.

And that's how
cults really work.

I chose to be
disfellowshipped because I

wanted out of their religion.

I purposely got
disfellowshipped.

And how did you do that?

I was dating a
worldly man, and was

just out in public with
him and willing to be seen.

Because I knew there
would be an issue with it.

And I was trying to figure out
how to get out of the religion.

And what... what was
happening before that, Sharon?

Like, what was...
because you guys were

born and raised in it, right?

We were, yes.

So fully indoctrinated,

fully living the life, right?

Yep.

So what was happening?

So I believed
it was the truth.

I could not live it.

Our life was built around
Jehovah's Witnesses.

It meant going door-to-door
as much as you could.

It meant making
all the meetings.

It meant doing all the studying.

And it felt like the more I
had to do, the more I couldn't.

I felt like if I stayed
in, I would die inside.

And I couldn't please that God,
no matter how much I tried.

So you're dating
this worldly guy.

Yes.

You're out in
public, acting crazy.

Holding hands in public!

Going to dinner.

Right, right, going to dinner!

And another Jehovah's
Witness saw us and reported it.

Our dad tried to move us
without addressing the issue,

initially.

Just said, we're
moving to Oregon.

The next day, we're moving.

And I said, I'm not.

And then he addressed what had
been told to him about this.

And it was hard.

It was a really hard situation.

But I just...

I wanted out so badly.

And so, I did that.

And I was kicked out
the next morning.

I was allowed to stay overnight.
- Wait.

And you were kicked
out of your home?

Yes.

And how old were you?

I was almost 22.

And I remember from Sharon is
that Dad gave her an ultimatum

to stop seeing the man or to
be gone by the next morning,

is really what it
boiled down to.

No preparation, no anything.

It's just like the beginning
of the ultimate act of shunning

is what it was.

She wasn't disfellowshipped yet.

None of that had taken place.

Our father's as hardcore
fundamentalist as they come.

He's an elder.

We were born into the religion.

We traveled the United States.

We moved as many as
three times a year,

city to city, state to
state, school to school.

We never really
had a foundation.

So our life was 100%
Jehovah's Witness.

So Sharon was raised to
be that model woman in

a patriarchal society religion.

And she chose against
it, ultimately.

But she hadn't been prepared
to go out into the world.

She was prepared to be
the wife of an elder.

I was 17 when my
sister left the house.

And the direction that we
were given by our father

after our sister
had left the house

was that Sharon was no longer
going to be living with us.

She wasn't going to be
part of being our family,

and that we were going to
move forward without talking

about her anymore.

And that was the end of that.

Is this some theory that
by disfellowshipping you,

it may bring about
your salvation?

They think you are doing
you a favor by doing that.

They are applying love
by prompting you to want

to reach out to get reinstated.

But what that amounts to
is emotional blackmail.

It's been said many times...

you can look at it online and
in their speeches and stuff...

that the reason that
they don't talk to people

is so that you will
want to come back.

They've said... they've
cited that as a reason,

that people miss their families.

I have a
four-year-old daughter,

who my father has never met.

I think, how could
that possibly be?

That someone who you have
brought into this world,

who you would lay
down your life for,

you can no longer speak to?

And I can only imagine
it torments him.

My father came to visit us.

And I finally worked up the
courage to tell my father, Dad,

I don't think it's
God's organization.

And there was just a few
seconds of stunned silence.

After that, I said to him,
it's very likely that I

could be disfellowshipped.

And his answer was,
Lloyd, it would kill me,

but if it came to that,
I wouldn't speak to you.

The disappointment in
his voice was tangible.

And I remember breaking
down in tears, because I

felt I was failing him.

So the relationship with dad
now is virtually non-existent.

I visited the family
home back in England.

And I saw that my dad's hedge
was massively overgrown.

And clearly, no one
in the congregation

had been helping him.

So we bought a card and posted
it through the letter box

and said, we will be
visiting you tomorrow.

And I will cut your
hedges, so please

leave me access to the tools.

So I called the next day,
wondering what would happen.

Would he be there
waiting for me?

Had he had a change of heart?

And what we found was that
the house had been abandoned.

And he had left
access to the tools.

So I got to work
cutting the hedges.

And my wife said, I think
your dad just drove by.

And so, I said, really?

And she said, yeah, I'm
pretty sure it was him.

He was circling
the block, waiting

to see when we would leave.

And he never came to
meet his granddaughter.

And we left without...

with that opportunity
being wasted.

I know one thing that I
shared with my daughters

that I wish I could take back.

I believe someone had
gotten disfellowshipped,

and we were talking about that
principle and why it's done.

And I looked at my two baby
girls and I said, you know,

if Mommy ever did something
to be disfellowshipped,

I want you to stand firm.

Because I will
come back for you.

Well, I didn't know that
once I was disfellowshipped,

I would find out the real
truth about Jehovah's Witnesses

and many of their
policies and practices

and have a crisis of conscience,
where I can't come back.

It would be hypocritical
to go back in order

to speak to different loved
ones, especially my daughters,

yet stand up for
something that I find so

manipulative and controlling.

It's something that people fear.

And what happens...

for example, what
happened with me...

the reason on paper that
I was disfellowshipped

would have been for being with
a woman during that period

of depression, when I
was just very confused,

didn't know what was going on.

That's something
that also took place.

So when I spoke with the elders,
that's what they keyed in on.

I was a ministerial
servant, which

is basically an elder's helper.

I was a regular
pioneer, which meant

that I devoted 70
hours per month

to the door-to-door ministry
and basically evangelizing.

But in spite of
being that busy, I

couldn't help but have
some serious questions

as to what was supposed
to be my belief

system for a number of years.

And I made an effort to
just always push that down.

During this period, I had not
been living a life according

to Jehovah's Witness rules.

So I called up an elder.

And I just mentioned everything.

I told him about my doubts.

I told him that I was
really struggling to try

to continue to believe this.

I wanted to believe
that this was true,

but I was struggling to do so.

In 2016 is when I
was announced as no

longer being one of
Jehovah's Witnesses

after being disfellowshipped.

Ever since I got
disfellowshipped,

and, you know, haven't been able
to communicate with my parents,

I've made several very
desperate attempts

at trying to almost
force my parents

to acknowledge my existence.

Probably seen Jehovah's
Witnesses standing

at public
transportation stations

and things of that nature.

And my parents have a post,
and I knew when their post was.

So I remember going
to where they were.

And I remember my mother
just staring at me, you know.

I walked up to her.

And she... it was like
she had seen a ghost.

She was staring at me.

She couldn't move.

And she just started bawling.

She's literally convinced that
if she were to talk to her son,

God is going to destroy her.

I'm one of five children.

Not a single sibling of
mine has even spoken to me,

sent me a message, waved at me.

Unfortunately, as
difficult as it is,

I have to accept the fact
that I may never have

a relationship with them again.

And that hurts.

I heard through the
grapevine that my brother,

who was my best friend,
that he had gotten married.

I showed up at the wedding.

Not to create a
scene, but just to...

I just really needed
to see my family.

My father was basically saying,
you know, how would you...

why would you come here?

And I was just trying to
plead with him to just

listen to me for a second.

You know, I was hoping
to just get, hey,

I'm happy to see that
you're alive, or something

so that... you know,
of that nature.

And instead it actually
turned into a blowout.

I was really just emotionally,
like, screaming at my father,

begging him to just
try to understand

that I tried to believe this.

The next day, after the wedding
and that whole spectacle,

my father called me.

And since I had an audience
with him, I was like,

is there anything we could do
just to have a relationship?

And my father did say,
you know, if I get cancer,

I'll let you know.

I haven't had any meaningful
communication at all

with my parents since then.

It's been about two years.

I've tried to call.

Silence.

Heartbreaking.

I work in the court system.

And so, I often
times will see, you

know, convicted murderers,
convicted abusers and all

of these other things, right?

And it's established,
at least legally,

that they've actually committed
these horrendous crimes.

You know who is almost
always in the audience?

Their mom, their siblings,
somebody from their family.

They're not condoning
what they did.

And I think to myself, what
great crime have we committed

that is to that extent?

Where we're not even worthy
of you looking in my eyes

as my mother or as my father?

Disfellowshipping can
be painful discipline,

but there is a purpose for it.

Let each of us be
resolved to let

nothing undermine
the effectiveness

of Jehovah's discipline.

Remember that loyalty to
Jehovah is the glue that holds

our spiritual life together.

So let nothing, even
the improper course

of a disfellowshipped family
member, weaken that bond.

While it is a strong measure,
it certainly has its benefits.

It keeps Jehovah's
organization morally clean

and his name from reproach.

I was kicked out ultimately
because I had sex, I did drugs,

and trying to commit suicide.

All that happened
in the same night.

That's a busy night.

I flipped out.

And I was disfellowshipped
for all three of those things.

Jehovah's Witnesses, I
remember the day that they

came to our neighborhood.

We lived in the
projects, so it was

a little weird to see all
these white people just

knocking on doors.

And my mother was one of the
doors that they knocked on.

Right after I
graduated high school,

I went through all
the steps that it took

to become a Jehovah's Witness.

I went into field
service with my mother.

I went and knocked on doors.

Before, when I was in
school, I had my schoolmates.

Now I had no excuse to
associate with anybody

that wasn't Jehovah's Witness.

And so, my circle of friends
was getting smaller and smaller.

And I was spending more and
more time alone and getting

more and more depressed.

I thought, well, I'm going
to do a worldly thing.

And to me, a worldly
thing was like, well,

let's do some drugs.

So I do the drugs.

And I knew I have committed
the grossest sin possible.

I know that I'll be
disfellowshipped.

So I had already decided
that I was going to die.

But why, Jerry?

Why did you...

Why did I try
to commit suicide?

Because I was always taught
that this world was horrible

and that Armageddon, the end
was going to be really bad.

And I was afraid that I
wasn't going to make it,

I wasn't good enough to make it.

And I was also taught
that there was going

to be a Resurrection, that
people would be brought

back to life in this new world.

So for me, I thought I have
a better chance of being

resurrected than trying
to get through this

and dying in Armageddon.

Because you were a failure.

Yeah, and I...

You felt that you were...

And I felt like
God would understand

that I'm just too weak.

So I'll go ahead
and I'll do this.

And also, we were also always
taught that the wages of sin

is death.

That's a scripture or
something like that.

So I thought, well,
my sin is paid for.

I died.

And then I'll be
able to come back.

I think the first
thing I did was

I tried to run my
car into a wall,

ended up hitting a barrier.

I took my mess of a car
home and I overdosed.

My mother came home.

She called an ambulance.

And then after that, my mother
asked me to leave the house.

Now in any of this
time, Jerry, like, I mean,

is there any counseling as
we're leading up to questioning

your faith, you wanting
to commit suicide and harm

yourself and your life?

That was the biggest
thing, because I was

going through a big depression.

A lot of my friends were
having the same problem.

I was depressed.

I wasn't given any help,
was not feeling any better.

And I would constantly
go to the elders

and say, hey, I'm
not feeling good.

I'm depressed.

And they would tell me to go
out and field service more.

It just wasn't working for me.

And then, when I did
try to commit suicide,

I didn't get any counseling.

I was in the hospital
for a few months,

and I never saw any
of the elders, any

of the brothers, any of that.

And I was also told
that one of the reasons

I was being disfellowshipped was
because what I did was public.

I tried to commit suicide.

I had to go to the hospital.

And people knew
all of my crimes.

And so, that was
another reason why,

because I'd made God's
organization look bad.

Right.

What's going on with Jerry, our
brother, our friend, our son?

It's.

You're making the
organization look bad.

And for that, you're
being punished.

But again, there's no...

there's no counseling
you through this,

which is what I understand
being spiritual is about, right?

Getting comfort and
getting guidance.

And at his lowest point,
when people should be flocking

to him to support
him and build him up,

the basis of this organization
is conditional love.

Everything stems from that.

Without unconditional
love, you have nothing.

The man that was my best friend
for 10 years, their brother

committed suicide.

He was raised in an
organization where

he was told, if you do
exactly as we tell you to,

we will love you.

If you're perfect,
we will love you.

But no one is perfect.

And so, he made mistakes.

And he didn't want
to be a part of that.

And he was disowned
by his family.

So Sharon left when our
brothers were 10 and 11.

And I left a year later, and
our brothers were 11 and 12.

And we were out of their lives.

We had been disfellowshipped.

We were two things,
no longer allowed

to be involved
with the household,

and speaking for myself,
I honestly had no desire

to be involved in my household.

I had two younger brothers
that lived with my parents

still at that point in
time, Randy and Robert.

And I didn't want to
interfere in their life

and what they had
as their mission.

And I didn't want to interfere
with my brothers' options

as to what they were
going to be doing

or how their life
was going to become,

whether they stayed
a Jehovah's Witness

or whether they chose not
to be a Jehovah's Witness.

I was just going to let
the paths take the paths

that they were going to take.

It wasn't until
about 12 years later,

Robert had told me what
it was like when we left.

And I remember him telling
me the story of him and Randy

being 15, 16 years
of age and discussing

that they do not believe.

They do not want
to be part of this.

They can't wait for the day that
they're old enough to leave it.

And they are preparing to exit
being Jehovah's Witnesses.

And at that point in time,
Randy said to Robert,

you know, one of us has to
stay, or it'll kill Mom and Dad.

And Randy is the one
that ended up staying.

Meanwhile, Robert's
gone and started

his new life of this
MMA world and becoming

very successful at it.

And his mission is for
our family to be together.

And it's what he's
stayed focused on ever

since he's left.

So in 2006, Robert
reached out to Randy.

He reached out to our
parents, to bring back

a family reunion up in Oregon.

Our parents declined.

And Randy and his
wife both agreed

to come and meet with us.

In 26 years, that was the
first time part of our family

had been together.

And Randy and I started
staying in touch.

And on October 5, Randy
sends me an email.

He's on top of the world.

He's starting a new career.

He's happy.

Just sounds like he's at the
pinnacle of everything for him.

It's the most excited
I'd heard him.

And October 8, I get a phone
call from my brother, Robert,

that Randy had hung himself.

It's OK.

It's OK.

We're going to get
our family reunion.

Brutally so.

I made arrangements for all
the family to come out there.

The first night
we're there, they've

got everybody down in my room.

And we had a reunion.

And it was like we'd seen
each other yesterday.

It was no different.

I mean, it was like
everything was normal,

even though our brother
has passed away.

It just seemed very normal for
our family to be back together.

We go to the service.

The elder that got up and gave
the eulogy, it wasn't a eulogy.

All they talked
about was Jehovah.

They didn't talk
about my brother.

They didn't talk
about what he did.

They didn't talk
about what happened.

All they talked
about was Jehovah

and the new world order.

And that... they don't miss a
beat on marching to the beat,

ever.

Not in the most
horrific of times.

We made arrangements...
Robert, Sharon and I...

to go see our parents.

We spend five, six, seven,
eight hours there with them,

talking like old times.

And it's time for us to leave.

We've had a great time.

And Mom comes
walking in the room.

She's kissed me 5,000
times on the cheek

while I've been there.

She's held my hand
the whole time.

She doesn't look happy anymore.

And Dad said, we've given
this a lot of thought.

I think it'd be a good idea if
we don't meet like this again.

Wow.

And we left.

We went home.

Robert and I sat up till 4:00 or
5:00 in the morning, drinking,

talking.

I've never seen Robert angry.

This was what he wanted, under
the direst of circumstances,

he got.

And here it was,
ripped away again.

And he was devastated by this.

It put him into a
tailspin of depression.

It's the end of
2017, December 3.

Robert had come in to
Los Angeles for a fight.

I'd gone to visit him and
watch the fights with him.

We're walking down the sidewalk.

And he gets real
sullen and real quiet.

And he says, I wish I
was a strong as you.

6 foot 4, 210, bad son of a gun.

And I'm shocked.

I'm like, what do you mean?

He's like, you've
always been able to deal

with adversity so well.

You've always seemed to
be so strong with things.

I wish I could be like that.

That was on December 3.

On December 12, his
girlfriend calls me

and said, have you from Robert?

And I said, no, I've been trying
to get a hold of him all day.

And she's like he's disconnected
all of his Facebook,

all of his social media.

December 15, Friday, at
1:00, I called the police

and gave them his
vehicle license number.

And within a few minutes,
they transferred me

to the coroner's office.

He had committed
suicide on December 13.

One of us has to stay, or
it will kill Mom and Dad.

One of them stayed.

It killed him.

And he didn't believe in it.

And the other one that wanted
us to be a family so bad,

and couldn't stand the shunning,
couldn't stand the pain

that went along with
that, ultimately

took his own life as well.

I will be back.

That family
disintegrating, and how

it impacted those
two young boys who

lost their brother and sister...

which was almost like a death
to them at that point in time,

because they were never allowed
to talk about their brother

and sister who had left
the house, who had been

kicked out of the
house, who were

no longer part of the family...

was worse than having them die.

They're gone.

They're... it's like
they never existed.

They were erased from that life.

And they loved their
brother and sister.

So that cult and what it
has done to our family

is about as devastating
as you can get.

We understand that
we do not primarily

preach to save people's lives.

Jehovah's praise is more
important than the salvation

of people.

Why?

Because Jehovah is more
important than people.

I called my father after
the disfellowshipping.

I said, can you please
just keep me for a week?

Just keep me for a week.

And I was 36.

He said, Shannon,
you're disfellowshipped.

You'll have to go to
a homeless shelter.

I've lived in a tent
at the lake, when

I lost a job and an
apartment because I

didn't have anywhere to go.

But yeah, that's what your
family will be willing to do.

As I got older, and people
would be disfellowshipped

in the congregation,
they would come in just

as the meeting was starting.

And they would sit down.

And usually, our
family would sit

in the second-to-the-front row.

And many times, the front row...

even though they have
to walk past everyone...

it was left empty.

And so, there was one sister
who had been disfellowshipped.

And she sat right next
to one of the exits,

which was in the front row.

And I remember breathing very
shallowly whenever she walked

in, because I was
afraid that I would

be contaminated by
her disfellowshipping,

as if she had a
contagious disease.

They're not taught love.

You're not taught compassion.

You're not taught to have
loyalty to your blood.

You know, you're just like...

I don't hear any of that.

Well, I mean, it's just
you have a higher loyalty,

and that's to the organization.

It's so deep, what
you feel from the pain

and loss of family.

I know my own mother, I
don't think that she wanted

to be a Jehovah's Witness.

She loved holidays.

She loved her friends.

She enjoyed smoking.

And my father was an elder,
but this is something

he had set out for his family.

As she was going through
so much depression,

and the brothers knew,
and they told her

she doesn't go to a doctor.

You don't go to worldly
doctors, don't take medication.

Meanwhile, they're also
thinking this could very

easily be the end of the world.

So on September 25, we
came home from school

and we found her under the
exhaust pipe in the garage,

because she had given up.

She couldn't do
more for Jehovah.

She couldn't get her
depression under control.

And just, like, you know,
you don't have a way out.

You don't get to find help in
your family, that's supposed

to be there to, you know,
give you some empathy

and compassion, and
remind you of the goodness

and value within you.

They're not there.

She couldn't tell my dad.

She couldn't.

And just like your
brothers, I mean,

they couldn't seem to get the...

that... it's just
torture to them.

She was done trying what
she could within herself.

And trusting Jehovah's Witness
policies and guidelines,

she'd done everything
she was told.

But she couldn't
find the happiness

or fulfillment that she needed
to continue living through it.

This is not religion, for
people to grow up this way.

I think it's the weaponizing
of family relationships.

And we are not built...

I mean, I'm not an
expert on psychology,

but we're not built
as humans to handle it

when people turn
their backs on us,

even if it's for a few seconds.

People?

Your own mother,
your own father.

Exactly.

And we see the results.

Yeah.

So a year prior to
Randy committing suicide,

Robert had talked to him.

And that was when
Randy had shared

with him that he
did not believe,

but he had no other place to go.

He was afraid to leave.

Especially if you think
you're doing something wrong,

if you were raised that way to
believe that you are the devil,

you know?

That you... you're not
worthwhile to live.

Up to 120 people
take their life

in the United States each day.

How sad.

Though very rare,
due to depression,

even some true Christians
have taken their life.

But generally, we are a
happy people, aren't we?

A young mother died last
week after giving birth.

She'd refused a blood
transfusion, because it

went against her faith...

She needed a blood transfusion,

a medical practice that
goes against her faith

as a Jehovah's Witness.

My brother was engaged
to a beautiful young woman.

And he suddenly got ill.

We thought he had pneumonia.

Then they realized his lungs
were filled with blood,

his kidneys were failing.

He had a rare illness.

And he needed a
total plasmapheresis.

In other words,
they needed to take

his blood out... it was poison...

and put in new blood.

This is obviously
something that Jehovah's

Witnesses do not allow.

Imagine finding
out the one medical

thing you cannot do
for your loved one

is what your loved one needs.

The elders, of course,
spoke with him.

And they said, well,
you know, you've

got to remain faithful
to have everlasting life

and have a hope for
the Resurrection.

So as scared is a
22-year-old or anyone

would be who is getting
ready to get married,

youth at his
fingertips, he said, OK.

I won't take blood.

And they did what
they could medically.

They cleaned his blood.

But he did die.

And I was a part of that.

My mother was a nurse.

And she was often called
to hospitals in the area

when a Jehovah's Witness was
being pressured by a doctor

to take blood.

And what she would
do, she would come in

and she would be a
part of a committee

and just surround that
person, that patient,

and encourage them
not to take blood.

I had a really good
friend who didn't

go to the same high school
I did, but he lived in town.

So we would hang out a lot.

And when we were 18, he
had a brain aneurysm.

During the time that
he was in the hospital,

the doctors informed
his family that he

needed a blood transfusion.

And his family refused for him.

And he ended up dying.

He became a martyr.

Instead of a
17-year-old kid dying,

it was, this
17-year-old kid gave

his life for Jehovah,
because he refused

to have a blood transfusion.

There's an "Awake!"
magazine that the Jehovah's

Witnesses published
that was entitled,

"Youths Who Put God First".

And there's a picture
of maybe 20 or 30 kids

that died refusing
blood transfusions.

You have a situation
where a parent feels that it

would be better for their child
to die, rather than accept

a blood transfusion,
because of a teaching

that was dreamt up in 1945.

And how a judge doesn't
intercept and say,

absolutely not!

Judges are starting to do
that now, thank goodness, so

that the real horror stories...

And how many kids have died?

How many parents have died?

How many...

That's the tragic thing.

Because how do you
reverse that policy now?

When you've got so much
blood on your hands,

how do you hold your
hands up and say,

actually, we got that wrong.

They can't.

Let's talk about the
treatment of women,

how women have no voice in
the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Women are not allowed to be in
any kind of executive position.

They take very
literally passages that

say women ought to be silent.

They use that to say, well,
we can't have women teaching.

So that's why you'll never see...

in any of the videos
that are produced

by Jehovah's
Witnesses... you'll never

see a woman giving a speech.

It has to be a man.

Aside from that, I guess
they're allowed to do

cleaning of the Kingdom Hall.

How nice.

As a woman, as a sister
in the congregation,

it's highly patriarchal.

And I would venture to
say even misogynistic.

The general tenor of most
congregations is that women...

I think second class citizen
doesn't even come close.

It's more of you have your
place, and it is way below man.

There's a lot of victim
blaming that happens

among the witnesses.

Whenever there's a
judicial committee,

they do question a woman who
has been a victim of rape.

What were you wearing?

Where were you at?

Did you ever encourage him?

So let's talk about how women
are taught to be subservient.

I mean, it's in the teachings,
right, that if a woman is being

physically, sexually
abused, mentally abused,

that it is on her.

Ideally, you would
teach by example.

So by treating your husband
with this submissive respect,

you were...

eventually they're going to
come around, and you're...

they'll change.

They call it winning
them over without a word.

The only grounds for
divorce is adultery.

It doesn't matter
if he's beating you.

You have to be a
good Christian wife.

Don't say Christian.

That's the message
that they're given.

I know, but
you're repeating it.

That's exactly
what happened to me.

I got married really young.

I became associated
with Jehovah's Witnesses

when I was 13.

Many of us teenagers, we were
in a rush to get married.

Because we thought that if we
made it through Armageddon,

we'd have to be single.

And nobody really
wants to be alone.

So I got married in 1974 to
the first guy that came along.

And it was the biggest
mistake I've made in my life.

The young Jehovah's Witness
boy that I had married

became extremely abusive.

I was taking it for a while,
but then I started to get really

upset about it and angry.

What was the frame of mind,
being a Jehovah's Witness?

Well, my frame of
mind was that, you know,

I was supposed to be
a submissive wife.

I thought, is this
being a submissive wife?

So I went to go tell
the elders and I had

a talk with one of the elders.

And then he just looks
at me and he says, well,

why don't you stop nagging him?

And I said, well, can't you
even talk to him about it?

And he says, no, you
just need to learn

how to be more submissive.

And then he proceeds to
read to me a proverb.

And it said something like,
better that a man should live

up on his rooftop rather
than inside the house

with a contentious wife.

So basically, he was telling
me that I was the problem.

I was the cause of my own abuse.

And so, I lived a very unhappy
life for those two years.

But then I found out
he was smoking, and...

You were like, ha ha!

This will do it!

This will do it.

I had an out on his smoking.

Other people had
seen him smoking.

And so, I told the elders,
well, now, he's smoking.

Now, can you do
something with him?

So guess what?

They called a committee meeting.

They disfellowshipped
him for smoking.

Un-fucking-real.

I wound up with
someone very abusive.

But to me, it was like home.

It was the manipulation,
the control,

the rage, the cruel words.

I felt I deserved them.

I always felt I had
done something wrong.

So I was always trying
to do something better.

I was empathetic and
always forgiving.

And... and I...

I have had to take
about a year and a half

to understand how my
view of relationships

has been so skewed by what
I was raised to believe.

And I'm an older woman.

I should have
learned this by now.

Now, there is something that
the apostates are talking about

and trying to put forward.

The media's picked it up.

Others have also picked it up.

And that is our
scriptural position

of having two witnesses
requirement for judicial action

if there's no confession.

The scriptures are very clear.

Before a judicial
committee can be convened,

there has to be a
confession or two witnesses.

So we will never change
our scriptural position

on that subject.

The thing that I
want to talk about,

which is the most shocking,
was children and sexual abuse,

molestation, pedophiles,
and how they deal or don't

deal with the situation.

And I was shocked about this
policy of the two witness rule.

So Jehovah's Witnesses, when
it comes to judicial matters,

they apply Deuteronomy
19, verse 15,

which talks about needing
two witnesses to establish

that something's happened.

We're talking about
something in the mosaic law.

And really, there's lots of
things in the mosaic law that

shouldn't be applied, such
as killing homosexuals

or killing adulterers.

We don't apply that.

So why would you want to apply
a two witness rule in all cases,

including child sex abuse?

So a child or a woman or
even a boy can be molested,

but it has to be
witnessed by two people?

Indeed.

And when does that ever happen?

You as yourself
count as one witness.

You basically need
one other person.

What are the chances
of that happening?

What's even crazier
is that a pedophile can

go before a judicial committee.

And if they convince
the three elders

that they are quote unquote,
"sorry", they can be reproved,

and then not shunned.

But we've been hearing all these
stories of smoking cigarettes.

Oh, shunned.

Raping a child?

Ah, well, you're sorry.

In my case, I eventually
ended up marrying

somebody who was a convert.

Turned out that he
was abusing cocaine,

as well as drug trafficking.

And he was also abusive to
both me and my daughter.

And so, I ended up
separating from him.

But I wasn't allowed to
divorce him in the eyes

of the congregation.

I could get a secular
divorce, but I

would continuously be married
to him in the congregation.

So I was disfellowshipped and
banished from the congregation.

They told me, we leave
you in Satan's hands.

But I still needed to
make sure that my daughter

made it through Armageddon.

I felt I was going
down with the Titanic

and there was only one
seat left on the life raft.

And I chose to put
my daughter in it.

And I gave her up for adoption
to a congregation elder.

You trusted them?

Yes.

Yes, I entrusted them
with my daughter.

I had to leave the
only life that I knew.

I lost my family from
one day to the next.

I lost all of my friends.

I was upset by my whole
routine being changed.

I just wanted to
go to the meetings.

I wanted to preach.

And I wanted happy times.

I didn't want to do
anything but that.

So it was confusing.

I remember asking
my mom, will you

ever go back to the meetings?

And she said, no.

And I remember saying, OK.

I want to go live
with that family.

It's weird to
think back that I...

I just so quick was like, yeah,
I'm good without you, Mom.

Because it was Jehovah that
actually loved me and was

going to take care of me.

When I gave her
up for adoption,

I felt that I was doomed
to die at Armageddon,

but I can't let her suffer
the consequences for my sins.

And I believed my
mom was going to die.

It was... I was,
like, deciding that I

need to go to the Kingdom Hall.

My mom is going to die, but,
like, I don't want to die.

I have to do it for Jehovah.

So I lived with this
family for two years,

between six years old
and eight years old.

He's an elder in
the congregation.

He is...

He was well respected.

Yes, he's funny and
he loves the kids.

I was excited to live with
them and I trusted them.

I knew them.

They have sons that are my age.

I've known them my whole life.

They're my friends.

I trusted them, so they're
going to be my brothers now.

It was exciting.

I really thought that's where...

like, how lucky am I,
that my parents chose me?

They wanted... they're
hand-picking me,

is how I felt. I think I was...

I felt special.

And then, when I was
officially adopted

and had their last name, that
night, he began molesting me.

Are you OK?

Yeah, sorry, just need
to cry for, like, two seconds.

You just have to cry for two seconds?

Yeah.

...five minutes.

Sorry.

You OK?

It's just sad.

Yeah.

I know.

I'm OK.
I'm good.

You OK, really?

Yeah.

Thank you.

Um, it lasted for
eight or nine months.

The thought of going
and telling his wife,

telling my adoptive
mother this, I didn't

think I would be believed.

Or I thought it was...

I thought people were
going to be mad at me,

because I was saying
something bad about him.

Because he's... he's an elder.

He's looked up to.

And then I ended up
telling my friend,

which is why I'm fortunate in
this situation, for what it is.

This is all
predicated, I assume,

on the idea that
protecting the organization

is paramount to everything.

But also, and like
Scientologists, they

believe that it'll get fixed.

Internally.

Internally.

Or if it needs to be exposed,
eventually, Jehovah will do it.

But you don't go run ahead of
Jehovah's spirit or Jehovah's

organization and make a fuss.

Jehovah will see to it that
it's taken care of in due time.

But if you're a child, and
you're growing up in Jehovah's

Witnesses, and you go to your
mother or your father and say,

I've been molested.

What is the process?

Are you allowed to
go to the police?

Are you allowed to
report this crime?

The witness culture is
built up on this assumption

that there needs
to be forgiveness.

There's this thing where
you're not allowed to take

another brother to court.

And all of these factors...

together with confidentiality,
we need to keep things secret,

we can't bring Jehovah's
name into reproach...

all of these factors conspire
to bring parents to the point.

And I've interviewed parents
who've done this, where they

just don't feel they can
go to the authorities

because of how they've been
trained in the witness culture.

We've seen cases where it
did get to the court system.

Someone was molested.

Years later, they end
up in a courtroom.

The victim is by herself.

And on the other side
of the courtroom,

is the molester surrounded
by the congregation.

The molester actually has the
support of the congregation,

while the victim is in
defiance of God's law.

And truly, that word reproach
is brought up again and again.

You don't want to bring
reproach upon God's kingdom.

A woman came up to me.

She was in her late 20s.

When she was very
little, seven or eight,

she was being molested
by her older brother.

She went and told her father.

I think the father did tell
the elders in the congregation.

The elders then moved the boy
to another congregation four

times.

So this woman, as an
adult, then conducted

her own investigation,
found other victims,

went to the police.

And there's no talking
within the organization, right?

They don't even tell...

they'll send the pedophile
to another congregation.

With no warning.

I have two daughters.

And little did I
know, but I find

out years later
that I'm out, and I

have spoken to some women.

Their fathers had molested them.

I had no idea that my
daughters could be unsafe.

And I'm just horrified
to think that these

men could allow me to put
my most prized possession...

my child...

in someone's arms that
has molested a child.

The last day that
I spent with Randy,

I had asked him in
specific about how

did the Jehovah's Witnesses
handle situations of child

molestation, child abuse.

And his response seemed
very straightforward

to me, but I'm not...
I'm not involved.

So I don't know.

But he was an elder.

And he said that the
elders in the congregations

are well versed in the laws of
their states that they're in,

and that they prefer to
handle things internally.

That was it, black and white.

How do you prove that
you've been abused?

You have two
witnesses to the crime.

Who abuses children
with two witnesses?

Nobody does.

And that was
precisely the point.

What do you guys say to the
outside world, who will say,

there's bad people
in every religion?

I would point them
to the Australian Royal

Commission that was convened
for Jehovah's Witnesses in 2015.

They are devastating in
highlighting specific areas

in which the Jehovah's Witness
policy regarding child abuse

is woefully inadequate.

In my opinion,
Jehovah's Witnesses are

a cult hiding in plain sight.

The weird thing is
when you're a witness,

you're taught to look
forward to paradise.

And you never imagine
in your wildest dreams

that paradise is being
able to think for yourself.

And the consequences for
thinking outside of that very

small, restricted box is
having to start life over,

essentially, at
these various ages.

You know, myself at 28.

And having to just learn things,
you know, from the beginning.

You know, all over.

And without the
support of your family.

Exactly.

And everybody
that you've grown up

with, or all your friends,
or everybody who's ever

taught you anything.

All of you here
telling us your stories

will hopefully do what
it did for our group,

where Mike started a foundation
for Scientologists who

are leaving.

Because very
oftentimes, we've heard,

I didn't believe I
had anywhere to go.

I mean, literally, like,
I don't know actually

where I would sleep tonight.

And having Scientologists
as all of your family,

all of your friends, you
usually work for Scientologists.

You have no education.

A higher education is...

Heavily dissuaded.

Right.

So they feel there's
nowhere to go.

With this series and
with Mike, like I

said, starting the Aftermath
Foundation, hopefully

now, people seeing this will...

there will be more
who either come

out because of your stories.

And they'll say, I had
those same thoughts.

They're not alone.

They're not alone.

And this is... they're being
sold such a bag of goods.

Like you said, Cliff,
it's like, you know,

to realize at the
end of the day,

you know, I could have
wasted my whole life.

Who am I without this thing?

You know, who am I?

And the fact that you
believed so wholeheartedly

that you gave up your baby.

And, you know, for what
you have experienced.

But look at you now.

You're here.

You didn't just get past
it, you survived it.

And now you're
being an activist.

And you're going to help
somebody else who had that

happen, that maybe wasn't
in the Jehovah's Witnesses,

but was in something else,
or just was molested.

And to see you here talking
out is a huge thing.

And you should feel
proud of yourself,

and proud of who you
are, to be able to come

out here and do that.

Because not everybody does.

If any of my family
is listening right now...

If I could give
my dad one message...

I would like my
mother to know...

If there is one thing I want
my family to think about...

If I could send one
message to my daughters...

I love you.

I really do hope that one day
you'll be able to just see me

as your brother and your son.

I love them and I always will.

I would do anything for you.

I will love you
forever and always.

And I will never, ever
turn my back on you.

The whole reason
I was doing this

was because of my daughter.

You're my family.

All I want is to have
you guys in my life.

Just know that I love you
from the bottom of my heart.

Thank you for
being my children.

If you are speaking
about Scientology in a way

that Scientology doesn't
want you talking about them,

they are coming after you.

I am scared, because I know
how powerful that church is.

The difference between
a religion and a cult

is what happens when
you try to leave.

Oh, my God.

I've just been being followed.

Yep, standing at
the front with a camera.

Hey, you want to talk to us?

Not necessarily.

The tens of millions of
dollars spent by Scientology

is being subsidized by every
taxpayer in the United States.

And of all the
missing executives, that goal,

one person wants to do a
wellness check on...

When are the laws going
to change to protect

people from these cults?

I was at my breaking point.

And I was...

I was done.

I was so desperate
to get out of there.

They think they
have the right to put

somebody away, behind lawyers,
behind all of their tax

exempt money.

And they just want no one
to ask about those people.

Well, that's just
too fucking bad.

Where is Shelly?

What happened to this very
public figure who suddenly

vanished from the scene?

She could be sick.

I believe that Shelly

is being held against her will.

I wouldn't want
Shelly to talk to me.

You wouldn't want her talk to you?

I'd want her to go
to the FBI and finally

get the fuck out.

What the cults
are trying to do

is to infiltrate everywhere
they can and take it over.

They are going
to buy up our town.

We're getting talked to by the police.

We're sitting here in a park.

We're presenting our case
to the world, to the FBI,

to the IRS.

We don't have the
money that they have.

We don't have the
resources that they have.

But do have people like you.

And the truth.

I appreciate your help and
for sticking through it with me.

You're a very brave woman.

Is anybody here?

We're going to get
somewhere, eventually.

We will get somewhere.