Killing Richard Glossip (2017–…): Season 1, Episode 3 - The Machinery of Death - full transcript

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- HELLO?
- HEY, RICHARD.

IT'S JOE BERLINGER.
HOW YOU DOING, MAN?

YOU HANGING IN THERE?

IT MUST BE HARD TO,
LIKE, YOU KNOW,

JUST GO THROUGH
THE DAY-TO-DAY, YOU KNOW.

I IMAGINE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,

BEING IN PRISON FOR SOMETHING
THEY DIDN'T DO,

AND I JUST DON'T KNOW
IF I COULD LAST.

IN OKLAHOMA,
DEATH ROW INMATE RICHARD GLOSSIP

IS LIVING
ON BORROWED TIME.

ALREADY, HE'S BEEN ON
THE BRINK OF EXECUTION



ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS.

NOW, ONCE AGAIN,
THE STATE IS PREPARING

TO PUT HIM
TO DEATH ON CHARGES

OF HIRING ANOTHER MAN
TO COMMIT MURDER.

BUT FAR TOO MANY TROUBLING
QUESTIONS SWIRL AROUND HIS CASE.

I'M NOT IN THIS THING, MAN!
I'M REALLY NOT!

I'M JOE BERLINGER.

AS A DOCUMENTARY FILMMAKER,

I'VE SPENT MY CAREER SHINING
A LIGHT ON STORIES OF INJUSTICE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
THEY'RE READY TO KILL THIS GUY.

I THINK IT'S A REAL BAD DEAL.

AS GLOSSIP'S LAWYERS SEARCH
FOR NEW EVIDENCE...

EVERYTHING PRETTY MUCH
HAPPENED RIGHT HERE.

TIME IS RUNNING OUT.



DID THE SYSTEM GET IT WRONG
WITH RICHARD GLOSSIP?

THIS INNOCENT MAN
IS GOING TO BE EXECUTED

IF WE DON'T DO
SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW.

WE ARE THE LAST BEST CHANCE
THAT RICH HAS,

AND WE HAVE TO SUCCEED BECAUSE,
IF WE FAIL, HE DIES.

WHY IS OKLAHOMA SO
HELL-BENT

ON KILLING RICHARD GLOSSIP?

**

I'M GLAD TO SEE THAT
OKLAHOMA CITY HAS REALLY GROWN.

YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A LOT
OF PROBLEMS IN THE '90s.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAD
THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING

AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

SEEMED LIKE EVERYONE WAS
MOVING AWAY FROM OKLAHOMA CITY.

WE'RE GETTING AWAY
FROM THE MORE PATROLLED AREA,

AND YOU'RE GETTING KIND OF OUT
INTO THE OUTSKIRTS

WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO FIND
MORE DRUG TRAFFICKING,

MORE SHADY KIND OF
SETTINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU'LL NOTICE THERE'S
A LOT OF TRUCK STOPS

AND LESSER-PRICED MOTELS.

WHAT BRINGS ME BACK TO OKLAHOMA?
RICHARD GLOSSIP.

MY LIFE CHANGED AT
THE BEST BUDGET INN.

MY NAME IS WAYNE FOURNERAT.

I WAS RICHARD GLOSSIP'S
FIRST TRIAL LAWYER,

CASE NUMBER CF 97-244.

HELLO.
WILL ROOM 102 BE AVAILABLE?

YES. YES, SIR,
102 IS AVAILABLE.

OKAY.

I NOTICED THERE'S BEEN
A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS.

YOU KNOW, THERE USED TO BE

SINCLAIR GAS STATION
RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

IT'S BEEN ALMOST 20 YEARS

SINCE WAYNE FOURNERAT
DEFENDED RICHARD GLOSSIP.

GLOSSIP WAS ACCUSED
OF ORCHESTRATING

THE MURDER OF HIS BOSS,

THE OWNER OF
THE BEST BUDGET INN,

BARRY VAN TREESE.

GLOSSIP WAS FACING
THE DEATH PENALTY.

I FIRST MET RICHARD

IN THE OLD
OKLAHOMA COUNTY JAIL.

HE WAS VERY POLITE;
HE WAS VERY SCARED.

HE WAS VERY "WHAT IN
THE HELL IS GOING ON?"

HE HAD A LIFE WITH HIS FIANCEE,

AND THAT WAS HIS LIFE.

AND SO, IT WAS A SITUATION

WHERE YOU'RE TRYING
TO CALM SOMEONE

AND SHOW COMPASSION
TO THEM AND SAY,

"JUST LET ME FIND OUT,"
YOU KNOW.

I WAS BEING TOLD THAT

RICHARD GLOSSIP HAD
ALLEGEDLY ASKED JUSTIN SNEED,

OR TOLD JUSTIN SNEED,

TO KILL BARRY VAN TREESE --
DID IT HAPPEN?

NO, NOTHING THAT I SAW
INDICATED IT AT ALL.

BUT THE STATE CLAIMED
THAT GLOSSIP WAS RESPONSIBLE

AND BASED THEIR CASE
ON THE TESTIMONY OF THE MAN

WHO BRUTALLY MURDERED
BARRY VAN TREESE

WITH A BASEBALL BAT --
JUSTIN SNEED.

MANY BELIEVE THE STORY
THAT SNEED TOLD

THE POLICE WAS COERCED.

IN ORDER TO AVOID
THE DEATH PENALTY,

SNEED TOOK A PLEA OF
LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE

ON THE CONDITION THAT HE TESTIFY
AGAINST GLOSSIP.

YOU KNOW WHAT
JUSTIN SNEED'S

PLEA AGREEMENT SAYS?
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IT SAYS,

THAT HE'LL TELL THE TRUTH.

JUSTIN SNEED IS AFRAID,
IF HE RETRACTS HIS STATEMENT,

THEY'LL GIVE HIM
THE DEATH PENALTY.

GLOSSIP WAS ALSO OFFERED A PLEA,

BUT HE TURNED IT DOWN,
MAINTAINING HIS INNOCENCE.

NOW, TWO DECADES LATER,

HE SITS ON DEATH ROW

AND FACES
A LOOMING EXECUTION DATE.

THE KEY EVIDENCE
IN THE CASE WAS JUSTIN SNEED.

HE'S THE ONE THAT SAID,
"RICH ORDERED ME.

RICH PAID ME."

SO THE FIRST THING I DID
WAS DIG INTO JUSTIN SNEED.

DON KNIGHT,
GLOSSIP'S CURRENT LAWYER,

IS ATTEMPTING TO UNCOVER
ANY SHRED OF EVIDENCE

THAT COULD SAVE
GLOSSIP'S LIFE.

THERE'S A LOT THAT WE
KNOW NOW ABOUT JUSTIN SNEED.

YOU KNOW, WE KNOW
THAT HE WAS BORN IN TEXAS.

AND, UM,

YOU KNOW, RIGHT AROUND
THE EIGHTH GRADE

IS WHEN HE QUIT SCHOOL.

HE'S GOT THIS
DRUG HISTORY.

HE HAD BEEN
IN JUVENILE DETENTION.

HE HAD BEEN IN TROUBLE
WITH THE LAW

FOR FRAUDULENT CHECK-WRITING.

I FOUND THIS DOCUMENT,

APPLICATION FOR DETERMINATION
OF COMPETENCY.

A LAWYER NAMED GEORGE MISKOVSKY

WAS APPARENTLY REPRESENTING
JUSTIN SNEED

IN APRIL OF 1997.

AND MISKOVSKY SAYS
IN THIS APPLICATION

THAT MR. SNEED IS
CURRENTLY INCOMPETENT

TO UNDERGO FURTHER PROCEEDINGS

IN THE ABOVE-STYLED ACTION.

HIS LAWYER IS SAYING HE CANNOT

MEANINGFULLY COMMUNICATE
WITH HIS CLIENT.

IN JULY, WE HAVE
THE COMPETENCY EVALUATION

THAT WAS DONE
BY DR. EDITH KING,

AND HE SAYS HE'S CURRENTLY
TAKING LITHIUM AT THE JAIL.

IT'S A POWERFUL DRUG, PROBABLY
HELPING HIM CONTROL HIS MOODS.

"IT MAY WELL BE THAT MR. SNEED,"
THIS IS DR. KING'S WORDS,

"HAS HAD AN ATYPICAL MOOD
SWING DISORDER

IN HIS PAST CHARACTERIZED

BY UPS AND DOWNS,
INCLUDING ANGER OUTBURST."

HE JUST DOESN'T LOOK
ALL TOGETHER THERE.

THIS IS THE GUY
THAT IS REALLY THE BASIS

OF THE PROSECUTION'S CASE.

DESPITE THESE REPORTS,

A JUDGE ALLOWED SNEED
TO TESTIFY IN GLOSSIP'S TRIAL,

AND THE JURY WAS NEVER TOLD

OF SNEED'S
PSYCHOLOGICAL HISTORY.

NEARLY 20 YEARS LATER,
ADVOCATES FOR GLOSSIP MAINTAIN

THAT SNEED STILL DEMONSTRATES
SIGNS OF MENTAL INSTABILITY.

HOW YOU HOLDING UP SINCE
THE LAST TIME WE TALKED?

YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU GET THROUGH
THIS LONG SENTENCE OF YOURS,

YOU KNOW?

YOU KNOW...

I'VE STRUGGLED WITH MY OWN
JOURNEY IN THIS LIFE

AND MY OWN REASONS
OF WHY I AM WHERE I AM

FOR THE REASONS THAT I AM

AND THE CHOICES THAT I MAKE.

A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH ME
BEING ABLE TO INTERPRET

THE CHAPTER 12 OF REVELATIONS

WITH, UM, THE SYMBOLISM
OF A DRAGON AND EVIL,

AND THEN JUST THE WAY
MY MIND OPENED UP

TO THAT ON FOUR BLOOD MOONS

WHILE EVERYBODY
WAS TRYING TO ARGUE

WHETHER WE SHOULD KILL
THIS MAN OR NOT.

UM...

AND...

HOW DOES THAT RELATE
TO THIS SITUATION, THOUGH?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
MORE CLARIFICATION ON THAT.

HOW DOES THAT RELATE
TO THE CIRCUMSTANCES

YOU FOUND YOURSELF
IN 20 YEARS AGO?

UM, THESE ARE THE THINGS
THAT ARE IN MY MIND,

AND THESE ARE THE THINGS
THAT I'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH.

AND MAYBE A WHOLE LOT
OF THE WORLD

DOESN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND
WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

IT WAS JUSTIN SNEED'S WORD

THAT FORMED THE BACKBONE OF
RICHARD GLOSSIP'S PROSECUTION.

OPENING ARGUMENTS BEGAN
IN OKLAHOMA CITY

ON JUNE 3, 1998.

OVERSEEING THE PROSECUTION
WAS BOB MACY,

A DISTRICT ATTORNEY
WHO WAS KNOWN

AS ONE OF THE NATION'S
DEADLIEST PROSECUTORS.

AFTER THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING
IN 1995,

MACY BECAME ONE OF THE NATION'S

MOST OUTSPOKEN ADVOCATES
FOR THE DEATH PENALTY.

I AM PUTTING TOGETHER
THE FINEST

DEATH PENALTY PROSECUTION TEAM
IN THE COUNTRY,

AND WE WILL BE READY,

AND WE WILL SEEK
THE DEATH PENALTY,

AND WE WILL GET
THE DEATH PENALTY.

MACY HAD BEEN IN POWER
AS THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY

FOR A COUPLE OF DECADES.

THE POLICE DEPARTMENT
WAS KNOWN FOR TACTICS

TO MAKE AN ARREST SO THAT MACY
COULD GET A CONVICTION.

HE HAD A LOT OF POWER
IN THIS COUNTY.

HE COULD SWAY A JURY
IN CLOSING ARGUMENTS

BETTER THAN ANYBODY
I'VE EVER SEEN.

HE WAS NOTORIOUS FOR CARRYING

HIS FIREARM INTO THE COURTROOM,

YOU KNOW, INVOKING
THE BIBLE IN ARGUMENTS,

SECURING 54 DEATH SENTENCES
ON HIS OWN.

I WAS GOING TO GO TO TRIAL
AGAINST THE MACHINE,

THE MOST DIFFICULT DISTRICT
ATTORNEY IN OKLAHOMA COUNTY,

AND HE DESERVED
THAT REPUTATION.

**

AND A LOT OF US
ARE FAMILY ON THIS ROAD.

LIKE, MY COUSIN LIVES --

HER DAUGHTER
LIVES RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD.

BUT IT'S NICE OUT HERE.

I LOVE MY BROTHER.

I LOVE HIM VERY MUCH.

AND HE'S INNOCENT.

HE WAS ALWAYS
THE QUIET ONE.

HE WANTED TO OWN
HIS OWN PIZZA PLACE.

THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED,

BUT IT JUST DIDN'T
HAPPEN FOR HIM.

HE NEVER ASKED ANYBODY
FOR ANYTHING.

RICHARD NEVER EVEN SO MUCH
AS GOT A TICKET THAT I KNOW OF.

I'VE NEVER HAD A DOUBT.
HE WAS NOT INVOLVED.

THERE'S JUST NO WAY
HE WAS INVOLVED.

I WOULD PORTRAY
RICHARD GLOSSIP AS A MAN

WHO WAS NAIVE
ABOUT THE LEGAL SYSTEM.

RICHARD GLOSSIP BELIEVED,
IF HE WAS JUST HONEST,

HE'D BE LET GO,
THAT HE WOULDN'T BE IN IT.

HE DIDN'T DO IT.

BY ITS OWN ADMISSION,

THE PROSECUTION HAD
LITTLE FORENSIC EVIDENCE

TYING GLOSSIP TO
THE ACTUAL KILLING.

THEY WERE LEFT TO ARGUE
A CIRCUMSTANTIAL CASE,

ONE BUILT AROUND THEIR STAR
WITNESS, JUSTIN SNEED.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO SEE
JUSTIN ON THE STAND?

HE KEPT HIS HEAD
DOWN THE WHOLE TIME.

HE WOULDN'T EVEN LOOK UP.

HIS HEAD STAYED DOWN
LOOKING FORWARD THE WHOLE TIME.

IT WAS HARD.

I WANTED TO JUST GO BEAT
THE CRAP OUT OF HIM,

BUT THEN WHERE WOULD I BE?

THE PROSECUTION PAINTED SNEED

AS THIS
SORT OF HELPLESS DUPE,

KIND OF FOUND HIS WAY
TO THE BEST BUDGET INN.

AND THEN HE MET THIS
POWERFUL MAN IN RICHARD GLOSSIP.

AND THIS POWERFUL MAN
COULD TELL HIM WHAT TO DO

AND TELL HIM WHEN HE HAD TO EAT

AND TELL HIM
WHAT NEEDED TO BE DONE.

I MEAN, IT'S REALLY KIND
OF A FANCIFUL STORY.

THE PROSECUTION
DEPICTED GLOSSIP

AS A CRIMINAL MASTERMIND

WHO WANTED TO TAKE
OVER THE MOTEL.

THEY ALSO CLAIMED
GLOSSIP WAS EMBEZZLING MONEY

FROM BARRY VAN TREESE.

TO ME,
THIS IS A COMPLETELY LUDICROUS

MOTIVE AND STORY.

RICHARD WAS HERE
A LOT BY HIMSELF

WITH LOTS OF CASH

BECAUSE THIS IS
A CASH-ONLY OPERATION.

SO IF HE WAS REALLY DESPERATE
FOR $2,000 OR SOMETHING,

THE SORT OF FAR MORE
LOGICAL THING

TO DO WOULD JUST BE TAKE
THE CASH AND RUN.

THEN THIS WHOLE IDEA

OF THIS VIOLENT MURDER
OF YOUR BOSS,

THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.

I KNEW HE DIDN'T HAVE
A CHANCE FROM DAY 1

WHEN WE WAS IN THAT COURTROOM.

HE DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE.

WAYNE REALLY DIDN'T
KNOW WHAT TO DO,

SO HE WASN'T STANDING UP
AND SAYING ANYTHING.

AND I'M THINKING, "THIS GUY'S
GOING TO GET MY BROTHER KILLED."

I MEAN...

YOU'D NEVER DONE
A CAPITAL MURDER.

THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT WAS MY FIRST

AND MY ONLY,
AND WILL ONLY BE MY ONLY.

THERE WASN'T ANY REQUIREMENT

THAT YOU HAVE
A CERTAIN SPECIALIZATION.

I DON'T KNOW HOW PREPARED

WAYNE FOURNERAT
WAS FOR THE TRIAL.

LOOKING AT THE TRANSCRIPTS,
IT WOULD SEEM NOT VERY.

IT'S A DISASTER
FROM THE START, THAT TRIAL.

WAYNE'S ALL OVER THE PLACE

COMING UP WITH DIFFERENT
THEORIES OF THE CRIME.

NONE OF THEM MAKE ANY SENSE,

AND THEN SOME DON'T EVEN
INVOLVE JUSTIN SNEED,

THAT THERE'S, LIKE,
ALTERNATE KILLERS OUT THERE.

IT'S JUST...
IT'S...

THE OTHER THING
THAT HE DOESN'T DO,

WHICH IS, TO ME,
JUST THE MOST

INCOMPREHENSIBLE THING
IS THE INTERROGATION TAPES.

THEY DO NOT GET

THE JUSTIN SNEED INTERROGATION
INTO EVIDENCE.

IT'S A HUGE MISTAKE.

PUT THAT TAPE IN THERE

AND WATCH HIM LEAD JUSTIN
SNEED DOWN THE LITTLE TRAIL

IMPLICATING RICHARD GLOSSIP.

I THINK THAT JURORS SHOULD
BE ABLE TO SEE THAT.

THE JURY NEVER SAW
THE TAPED INTERROGATION

AND NEVER LEARNED
THE METHOD THE POLICE

USED IN OBTAINING
SNEED'S CONFESSION.

IT'S A MISTAKE THAT ADVOCATES

FOR GLOSSIP BELIEVE
SEALED HIS FATE.

I'M SO GLAD TO SEE ALL OF YOU.

I ASKED IF WE COULD
COME TOGETHER.

I'LL BRING YOU UP ON
THE RICHARD GLOSSIP STORY

AND WHERE WE ARE.

THE LAWYERS ARE DOING
WHAT THEY CAN.

WE'RE ALL DOING WHAT WE CAN.

YOU JUST START WITH
THE VERSIONS OF THE STORY

THAT SNEED'S TOLD AND YOU...

WELL, DETECTIVE BEMO
IS SAYING...

YOU CAN'T EXECUTE
SOMEBODY ON THIS BASIS.

"I KNOW THERE'S
SOMEBODY ELSE INVOLVED."

THAT IS HIS MODUS OPERANDI.

HIM AND DETECTIVE COOK,
THEY'RE BOTH RETIRED NOW,

BUT THAT WAS
THEIR MODUS OPERANDI.

TO GET THE CONFESSION.
AND YOU GET THAT IN THERE...

AND YOU THREATEN HIM
WITH DEATH.

THEY'VE USED THAT IN CASE
AFTER CASE AFTER CASE.

AND, IN ORDER TO DEFEAT THAT,

WHICH A DEFENSE LAWYER MUST DO,

HE'S GOT TO WORK HARD.

AND THAT WAS NOT DONE
IN THIS CASE FOR GLOSSIP.

THE HARD WORK WAS NOT DONE.

A DEFENSE LAWYER WOULD HAVE
TAKEN THAT FRAME BY FRAME

AND THEN MADE A QUESTION

OUT OF EVERY FRAME IN THAT FILM.

I THINK THAT, SHOWN PROPERLY
IN FRONT OF A JURY,

WOULD HAVE MADE
A BIG DIFFERENCE.

THAT'S WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE.

COURT TRANSCRIPTS SHOW THAT,

JUST 2 DAYS INTO
THE 6-DAY TRIAL,

WAYNE FOURNERAT WAS READY
TO GIVE UP,

REQUESTING WHAT IS CALLED
A BLIND PLEA,

MEANING GLOSSIP WOULD
PLEAD GUILTY

AND THEN BLINDLY ALLOW THE JUDGE
TO DECIDE THE EXACT SENTENCE.

HE STARTED TRYING TO
MAKE DEALS.

AND I'M GOING,
"NO, THIS IS NOT RIGHT."

AND I EVEN GOT PULLED INTO
CHAMBERS THREE DIFFERENT TIMES.

AND THE JUDGE KEPT ASKING ME,
"WAS YOU EXPECTING THIS?"

AND I SAID, "NO."

I SAID, "THIS IS NOT
THE DEFENSE

WE CLAIMED
WE WERE GOING TO PUT ON."

ON JUNE 10, 1998,
1 WEEK AFTER TESTIMONY BEGAN,

THE JURY FOUND RICHARD GLOSSIP

GUILTY OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER.

THE NEXT DAY, AFTER DELIBERATING
FOR JUST 75 MINUTES,

THE JURY SENTENCED HIM TO DEATH.

WHEN THEY SENTENCED HIM,
I WALKED OUT.

I COULDN'T BELIEVE THEY COME
BACK WITH THE DEATH PENALTY.

I WAS JUST SHOCKED,
I REALLY WAS,

AND THAT JUSTIN SNEED
GOT LIFE IN PRISON.

I'M LIKE, "YOU'RE KIDDING."

IT WAS WRONG.

MY MOM WAS DEVASTATED.

SHE WAS DEVASTATED.

MY DAD WAS DEVASTATED.

HE SAID, "I'M NOT GOING
TO STICK AROUND HERE

AND WATCH MY KID DIE
FOR SOMETHING HE DIDN'T DO."

I HAVE BEEN
CRITICIZED A GREAT DEAL

FOR REPRESENTING
RICHARD GLOSSIP.

I SUCKED AT IT, YOU KNOW.

I WAS TERRIBLE AT IT.

I TRIED THE BEST JOB
THAT I COULD!

IF RICHARD HAD HAD
A GOOD LAWYER,

HE COULD HAVE MADE MINCEMEAT
IN THAT CASE.

BUT HE WAS POOR.

HE WAS IN A SITUATION
WHERE CRIMES HAPPENED.

HE WAS IN THE GEOGRAPHY
OF DEATH.

HE WAS IN BOB MACY'S COUNTY.

AND THAT CONVERGENCE OF ALL
THOSE THINGS CAME ON HIM

WHERE HE GOT CAUGHT
IN THE MACHINERY OF DEATH

RIGHT IN OKLAHOMA COUNTY,

AND HE GOT CHEWED UP IN IT.

**

MY LIFE WAS GREAT.

MY LIFE WAS WONDERFUL.

I HAD MY FAMILY HERE,
MY WIFE AND HER CHILDREN,

AND I LOST ALL THAT.

YOU KNOW, I...

I... I TRIED TO DO SOMETHING...

I TRIED TO DO SOMETHING STUPID
BECAUSE OF IT.

YOU KNOW, I -- I...

I...

TRIED TO COMMIT SUICIDE.

IT WAS CLEAR THAT
MR. GLOSSIP'S CASE

NEEDED A DO-OVER
FROM THE BEGINNING.

MR. FOURNERAT HAD NEVER DONE
A HOMICIDE CASE,

MUCH LESS A DEATH PENALTY CASE.

MY NAME'S G. LYNN BURCH.

I WAS RICHARD GLOSSIP'S
APPELLATE COUNSEL

AFTER HIS CONVICTION

FOR THE KILLING
OF BARRY VAN TREESE.

IN MR. GLOSSIP'S CASE,

THERE WAS SO MANY
THINGS OF CONCERN.

IT JUST WASN'T EVEN CLOSE

TO WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN
IN A CAPITAL CASE.

IN THE YEAR 2000,
LYNN BURCH

FILED AN APPEAL ON BEHALF
OF RICHARD GLOSSIP,

CLAIMING THAT WAYNE FOURNERAT
HAD BEEN AN INEFFECTIVE COUNSEL.

A FEW MONTHS LATER,

THE APPELLATE COURT
CAME BACK WITH ITS DECISION.

YEAH.

IT WAS THE FIRST TIME

AN APPELLATE COURT
IN THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

UNANIMOUSLY OVERTURNED
A MURDER CONVICTION

WITHOUT HEARING
AN ORAL ARGUMENT.

RICHARD GLOSSIP WAS HEADING
BACK TO COURT FOR A NEW TRIAL.

THE APPELLATE COURTS,

THEY ARE NOT A BODY
THAT REVERSES CAPITAL CASES

ON A REGULAR BASIS,

SO IT WAS PRETTY...
IT WAS PRETTY AMAZING TO SEE.

SO WHERE WE HEADED, DON?

WE'RE GOING TO GO SEE
MARCIA DAWSON THIS MORNING.

SHE HAS SOME GOOD INFORMATION

ON A COUPLE OF WITNESSES

THAT ARE NO LONGER AROUND.

I MEAN, INTERVIEWING
ALL OF THE WITNESSES

BEFORE THEY DIE
WOULD HAVE BEEN HELPFUL.

ESPECIALLY BECAUSE,
AFTER THAT FIRST TRIAL,

AND AS YOU WELL KNOW,
THERE WERE VERY FEW WITNESSES

WHO WERE ACTUALLY
INTERVIEWED, RIGHT?

WHICH IS REALLY WHEN THEY
SHOULD HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED.

BEFORE THE TRIAL.
YEAH, RIGHT.

HI, MARCIA!

ASHLEY, YOU WANT TO COME ON IN?
SURE.

MARCIA DAWSON WAS
AN INVESTIGATOR

ASSIGNED TO HELP LYNN BURCH

PREPARE FOR GLOSSIP'S
SECOND TRIAL.

MARCIA, THANKS SO MUCH
FOR SITTING DOWN

AND TALKING TO US TODAY.
YOU'RE WELCOME.

DO YOU REMEMBER
BEING ASKED TO GO

AND TALK TO CERTAIN PEOPLE
IN THIS CASE?

ANYBODY WHOSE NAME POPPED UP
IN PAPERWORK PRIOR

TO WHERE I GOT THE CASE
I COULD GO AND INVESTIGATE.

SO YOU ACTUALLY GOT
TO SEE ROOM 102 ITSELF.

THE ROOM, YEAH.
HAD A BIG PICTURE WINDOW.

AND I BELIEVE THAT THE BATHROOM

AND STUFF WAS AT THE BACK.

AND THAT'S SORT OF WHAT
IT LOOKS LIKE EVEN TODAY.

YEAH, YEAH.

YEAH. SO ONE OF THE PLAYERS,
IT SAYS HERE,

IS CLIFF EVERHART.

RIGHT AFTER YOU WENT AHEAD
INTO THE BEST BUDGET INN,

CLIFF EVERHART DROPPED
IN SEVERAL TIMES,

AND HE ASKED
IF ANYONE HAD BEEN

SNOOPING AROUND ASKING QUESTIONS
ABOUT THE MURDER.

RIGHT.

CLIFF EVERHART,
A FORMER SHERIFF,

GAVE DAMAGING TESTIMONY
TO THE POLICE

AND AT THE FIRST TRIAL.

WITNESSES CLAIM THAT EVERHART
WAS INVOLVED IN DRUGS

AND PROSTITUTION
AT THE BEST BUDGET INN

AND HAD BEEN SEEN MEETING
WITH SNEED THE WEEK

BEFORE THE MURDER.

WHEN MARCIA DAWSON CAME TO
THE HOTEL TO INVESTIGATE,

EVERHART TRIED TO INTERVENE.

ALL OF A SUDDEN,
CLIFF EVERHART SHOWS UP

AND SAYS,
"IS ANYBODY SNOOPING AROUND?"

WHY WOULD THEY CARE
IF SOMEONE WAS SNOOPING AROUND?

A MURDER HAPPENED.
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SNOOP.

IT FEELS LIKE THERE
WAS SOME KIND OF PRESSURE...

SUBTERFUGE.

PRESSURE OR SOMETHING
BEING PUT ON.

I REALLY WANTED TO TALK
TO CLIFF EVERHART.

HE WAS MILLING AROUND
AFTER THE FACT, YOU KNOW,

AFTER VAN TREESE
HAD BEEN KILLED,

BUT I NEVER GOT
TO TALK TO THE MAN.

THERE WAS SOMETHING,
A SECRET THERE

THAT SOMEBODY
DIDN'T WANT EXPOSED.

AT THE SAME TIME
DAWSON WAS GETTING SHUT DOWN,

HER BOSS, LYNN BURCH,

WAS INTERVIEWING
WITNESSES OF HIS OWN,

INCLUDING JUSTIN SNEED.

I MADE AN APPOINTMENT
TO VISIT MR. SNEED.

WE JUST SAT DOWN AT A TABLE
AND HAD A CONVERSATION.

I WAS ASKING HIM
ABOUT THE FACILITIES

AND WHAT HE THOUGHT OF IT.

AND I JUST RECALL HIM
MAKING THE REMARK THAT,

"IT AIN'T BAD.

THEY MAKE BISCUITS HERE
THAT'LL MELT IN YOUR MOUTH."

HE DIDN'T REALLY
PROVIDE US ANYTHING

THAT WOULD BE REALLY GOOD
FOR CROSS-EXAMINATION.

IN 2003,

NEARLY 7 YEARS
AFTER VAN TREESE'S MURDER,

GLOSSIP WAS GIVEN
A SECOND TRIAL DATE.

BUT THE DAY BEFORE IT WAS
SCHEDULED TO BEGIN,

LYNN BURCH WAS SUMMONED TO COURT
TO MEET WITH THE JUDGE

AND THE ASSISTANT D.A.

THE ASSISTANT DA ACCUSED BURCH
OF THREATENING JUSTIN SNEED

AND SUGGESTED BURCH
WOULD BE FORCED

TO ANSWER TO THIS
IN FRONT OF A JURY.

AFTER I STAVED OFF AN ANEURYSM
BY TRYING TO CALM DOWN,

I, OF COURSE, SAID,

"THAT'S INCREDIBLY LUDICROUS."

I REMARKED THAT --

TO THE JUDGE --
THAT THIS WAS A PLOY.

THIS WAS A MECHANISM BEING
KNOWINGLY EMPLOYED BY THEM

TO MAKE ME HAVE
TO RECUSE FROM THE CASE.

THAT WAS, OF COURSE, DENIED.

AND I WENT FROM BEING
INVOLVED IN RICHARD'S CASE

EVERY DAY, FOR SOMETIMES
ALL DAY LONG,

TO IT WASN'T MY CASE ANYMORE.

THIS SHAKE-UP WAS
A HUGE SETBACK FOR GLOSSIP.

HE WAS ASSIGNED
TWO NEW ATTORNEYS,

WHO WERE GIVEN JUST 6 MONTHS
TO PREPARE A DEFENSE.

THE MACHINERY OF DEATH
IN OKLAHOMA COUNTY,

IT'S A FOE THAT IS
VERY DIFFICULT

TO GO TO WAR AGAINST.

RICHARD'S DEATH PENALTY'S BEEN
HANGING OVER ME FOR A LONG TIME.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE
WILL SEE WHAT A TRAGEDY

IT WILL BE IF IT COMES
TO THE END

THAT THE STATE
OF OKLAHOMA'S PURSUING.

HOPEFULLY, THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

THEY ALWAYS SAY THAT
A TRIAL

IS LIKE THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

IT'S WHAT COMES AFTER
EVERYTHING ELSE...

ALL OF THE MOTIONS

AND ALL OF THE INVESTIGATION
THAT YOU GO INTO.

THIS CASE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE

OF HOW THINGS GO WRONG
FROM START TO FINISH.

AND THERE ARE JUST
TOO MANY QUESTIONS.

IN LOOKING MORE CLOSELY AT
THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS PRESENTED,

WE KNOW THAT ONE BOX
OF EVIDENCE WAS DESTROYED.

DO WE HAVE A REPORT
THAT IT WAS DESTROYED?

YES.
SO, THIS WAS ON 10/28/99.

OKAY.
THIS DETECTIVE WAS ASSIGNED

TO TRANSFER PROPERTY

FROM THE OKLAHOMA
COUNTY D.A.'s OFFICE

BACK TO THE OCPD
PROPERTY ROOM.

RICHARD GLOSSIP'S LEGAL TEAM

HAS JUST FOUND AN EXPLOSIVE,
NEWLY RELEASED REPORT

WRITTEN BY THE OKLAHOMA POLICE
DEPARTMENT IN 1999.

IT STATES THAT THE POLICE
DESTROYED A BOX OF EVIDENCE

FROM GLOSSIP'S CASE.

THE CASE NUMBER IS LISTED,

"WITH THE DEFENDANTS LISTED
AS GLOSSIP AND SNEED,

CHARGED WITH MURDER 1."

THE POLICE REASONED
THAT THE CASE WAS CLOSED,

WHICH WAS PATENTLY FALSE.

IN 1999, GLOSSIP WAS STILL
2 YEARS AWAY FROM HIS APPEAL,

WHICH WOULD EVENTUALLY LEAD
TO A SECOND TRIAL.

USUALLY, THEY PRESERVE
THAT EVIDENCE

FOR A VERY LONG TIME,

SOMETIMES EVEN AFTER
THE EXECUTION AND BEYOND.

IT'S JUST NOT THE WAY
IT'S DONE.

YEAH.
SO...

PROPERTY IS LISTED AS
"ONE ROLL OF DUCT TAPE,

ONE BAG WITH DUCT TAPE,

ONE BAG WALLET,
KNIVES, KEYS,

ONE BIG WITH WHITE
SHOWER CURTAIN,

ONE DEPOSIT BOOK,
TWO RECEIPT BOOKS."

SO MANY THINGS
CAME UP MISSING.

IT WAS PAPERWORK
THAT WE COULD USE

TO PROVE THAT THERE WAS NEVER
ANY SHORTAGES AT THAT MOTEL.

ALL THESE THINGS SHOULD
ADD UP IN PEOPLE'S HEADS,

"WAIT. WHY WOULD THEY DO
ALL THESE THINGS?

WHY WOULD THEY DESTROY
ALL THIS EVIDENCE?"

PARTICULARLY
IN A CAPITAL CASE

WHERE THERE'S NO
PHYSICAL EVIDENCE,

AND IT'S REALLY
HE SAID/HE SAID, YOU KNOW.

EXACTLY!

TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE

HAS A HISTORY
IN OKLAHOMA COUNTY.

AND IN 2001, THERE WAS
A PUBLIC BACKLASH

WHEN THE FBI
INVESTIGATED BOB MACY

AND HIS FORENSIC
EXAMINER, JOYCE GILCHRIST.

JOYCE GILCHRIST BECAME
A FORMIDABLE PRESENCE

IN THE LOCAL COURTROOMS.

KNOWN FOR HER ABILITY
TO GET CONVICTIONS

AND SWAY JURIES,

HER NICKNAME BECAME
BLACK MAGIC.

HER TESTIMONY ON HAIR, SEMEN,

BLOOD OR EVEN FABRIC
HELPED LOCAL PROSECUTORS

SEND 23 PEOPLE TO DEATH ROW

AND CONVICT THOUSANDS OF OTHERS,

BUT HER SCIENCE
IS NOW SUSPECT.

THE FBI FOUND THAT
GILCHRIST HAD TAMPERED WITH

AND FALSIFIED EVIDENCE
IN NUMEROUS CASES.

THE SCANDAL ENDED HER CAREER

AND THE REIGN
OF LONGTIME D.A. BOB MACY.

NEITHER OF THEM
WERE PROSECUTED,

BUT IN THE YEARS SINCE,

A NUMBER OF DEATH
PENALTY CONVICTIONS

THE TWO WORKED
ON HAVE BEEN OVERTURNED.

THE FBI LOOKED AT EIGHT
CASES AND FOUND THAT,

IN AT LEAST SIX OF THEM,

GILCHRIST GAVE TESTIMONY BEYOND

THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS
OF FORENSIC SCIENCE.

BUT FEW PEOPLE KNOW
THAT GILCHRIST WAS ALSO

IN CHARGE OF RICHARD GLOSSIP'S
EVIDENCE,

AND IT WAS UNDER HER
AND MACY'S WATCH

THAT THE BOX WAS DESTROYED.

ONCE A PERSON
GETS A CONVICTION

IN A DEATH PENALTY CASE,

THAT EVIDENCE IS THE ONLY THING
THAT THEY CAN REFER TO.

AND THEN IT JUST DISAPPEARS.

THAT STINKS.

THAT REALLY SMELLS BAD.

BY THE TIME
RICHARD GLOSSIP'S

SECOND TRIAL BEGAN IN 2004,

THE BOX OF EVIDENCE
HAD LONG BEEN DESTROYED,

AND THE JURY WAS
NEVER THE WISER.

OVERSEEING THE PROSECUTION WERE
TWO ASSISTANT D.A.s,

CONNIE SMOTHERMON
AND GARY ACKLEY.

ACKLEY DOES NOT WANT
TO APPEAR ON CAMERA

BUT HAS AGREED TO PARTICIPATE
IN AN AUDIO INTERVIEW.

FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD SAY

THAT THIS CASE CLEARLY MERITS
THE DEATH PENALTY.

BUT THE WEAKNESS IN THIS CASE
TO THIS DATE IS RICHARD GLOSSIP

NEVER LAID A HAND
ON BARRY VAN TREESE.

THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO

WITH WHAT HE CAUSED
TO HAPPEN OR HIS INNOCENCE.

MY NAME IS
ZACHARY WADE VOBORNIK.

I WAS A JUROR ON THE SECOND
RICHARD GLOSSIP TRIAL

SO, ONE OF 12.

WE WERE INSTRUCTED BY THE COURT,

"HE DOESN'T HAVE
TO HAVE SWUNG THE BAT

TO BE RESPONSIBLE
FOR THE MURDER."

THE MAN WHO SWUNG THE BAT,

JUSTIN SNEED,
EXCHANGED HIS TESTIMONY

FOR A SENTENCE
OF LIFE IN PRISON.

AND THE STATE WAS ATTEMPTING
TO CORROBORATE SNEED'S STORY

IN ORDER TO CONVICT
GLOSSIP OF MURDER FOR HIRE.

BUT TURNING A POTENTIAL
MURDER-FOR-HIRE CONVICTION

INTO A DEATH SENTENCE
WOULD REQUIRE CERTAIN CRITERIA.

UNDER OKLAHOMA LAW, ONE OF
THE AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES

THAT CAN CAUSE THE DEATH PENALTY
TO BE RENDERED

IS THE DEATH WAS HEINOUS,
ATROCIOUS OR CRUEL.

INSTANTANEOUS DEATH
IS, BY LAW,

NOT HEINOUS, ATROCIOUS OR CRUEL.

TO BE HEINOUS,
ATROCIOUS OR CRUEL,

A DEATH MUST BE
PRECEDED BY SUFFERING.

TO UNDERSCORE
THE HEINOUS CRIME THEORY,

THE PROSECUTION BROUGHT
IN A MEDICAL EXAMINER

NAMED DR. CHAI CHOI,

WHO CLAIMED THAT
VAN TREESE DIED

A SLOW AND PAINFUL DEATH.

WHAT WE WERE TOLD WAS
BARRY VAN TREESE

LAID ON THE FLOOR
WITH HIS BRAIN SWELLING

AND DIED OVER
A PERIOD OF MANY HOURS.

WE SAW PICTURES
OF BARRY VAN TREESE'S,

YOU KNOW, THE AFTERMATH,
AND IT WAS HORRIFIC.

WE KNEW SNEED HAD BEEN THE ONE

WHO ACTUALLY
COMMITTED THE ACT

OF MURDERING BARRY VAN TREESE.

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS
A LITTLE BIT CHALLENGING FOR US

TO... CAN WE FIND SOMEONE
GUILTY OF MURDER

IF HE'S NOT THE ONE
WHO SWUNG THE BAT?

YOU GO AND SIT IN
A JURY BOX,

AND YOU CAN'T TALK TO ANYONE.

THERE'S NO COMMUNICATION
BETWEEN YOU AND THE PEOPLE

THAT ARE PRESENTING TO YOU,

AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE
WATCHING A TELEVISION SHOW.

AND YOU'RE WATCHING,
TRYING TO MAKE A JUDGMENT

ON WHAT'S REAL
AND WHAT'S NOT REAL,

WHO'S LYING AND WHO'S
TELLING THE TRUTH.

THE ANTICIPATION TO HEAR
JUSTIN SNEED'S TESTIMONY

WAS VERY HIGH.

WE WERE ALL INTERESTED TO SEE,
YOU KNOW, WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

JUSTIN SNEED'S STORY EVOLVES

EVERY SINGLE TIME HE TELLS IT,

FROM THIS FIRST INTERROGATION
WHERE YOU HAVE THIS,

LIKE, SORT OF VERY BASIC,
NO FRILLS, HERE'S THE STORYLINE,

"HERE'S WHAT
RICHARD TOLD ME TO DO."

THEN WE ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE
DETAIL IN AT THE FIRST TRIAL.

BY THE SECOND TRIAL, WE'VE GOT
EVEN ADDITIONAL STUFF GOING ON.

THEY ARE JUST
EMBELLISHMENTS OVER TIME

THAT HAVE NEVER
BEEN TRULY VETTED.

OVER THE YEARS,

SNEED HAS GIVEN
THREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS

OF HOW GLOSSIP APPROACHED HIM
ON THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER.

FIRST, HE TESTIFIED
THAT GLOSSIP CALLED HIM

ON A TELEPHONE

TO TELL HIM VAN TREESE
HAD RETURNED TO THE MOTEL.

THEN, HE CLAIMED
GLOSSIP BANGED ON HIS DOOR.

AND IN OUR RECENT INTERVIEW,

SNEED CHANGES
HIS STORY YET AGAIN.

I DON'T EVEN REALLY
REMEMBER HIM KNOCKING.

BUT, OF COURSE,
HE HAD MASTER KEYS,

SO ALL I DO IS REMEMBER
WAKING UP TO HIM BEING,

YOU KNOW, IN MY FACE.

EVEN THE DETAILS
OF THE MURDER ITSELF

HAVE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY.

DURING THE FIRST TRIAL,

SNEED ADMITS TO KILLING
VAN TREESE WITH A BASEBALL BAT.

IN THE SECOND TRIAL,

HE ADDS THAT HE STABBED HIM
WITH A KNIFE.

HE HAD CONCOCTED
THIS FURTHER STORY

WHERE HE AND RICHARD AND BARRY

WERE IN A BOILER ROOM
AT THE BEST BUDGET,

AND IT WAS THEN THAT

RICH WANTED HIM
TO KILL BARRY AND SAID,

"HERE, JUST TAKE A HAMMER
AND JUST DO IT.

JUST DO IT RIGHT NOW."

I MEAN, THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT CAME OUT WAY LATER.

I MEAN, NONE OF THOSE THINGS DID
JUSTIN EVER SAY TO THE POLICE.

NEVER. HE NEVER SAID THAT
TO ANY OF THE POLICE

WHEN THEY INTERROGATED HIM.

GLOSSIP'S LAWYERS
FAILED TO BREAK DOWN

THESE INCONSISTENCIES
FOR THE JURY.

THEY DIDN'T BRING FORWARD
THE FIRST TRIAL TESTIMONY

OR PRESENT THE JURY
WITH SNEED'S INTERROGATION TAPE.

IN FACT, THE DEFENSE DIDN'T CALL
A SINGLE EXPERT TO REFUTE

ANY OF THE STATE'S CASE.

THE DEFENSE DID NOT
PUT THIS EVIDENCE ON,

SO HERE YOU HAVE
A SORT OF LACKLUSTER

CROSS-EXAMINATION THAT ALLOWS

SNEED TO COME OFF
AS CREDIBLE.

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES
THE BALL BOUNCES YOUR WAY,

AND SOMETIMES IT DOESN'T.

AND THE CASE JUST WENT
BEAUTIFULLY FOR THE STATE,

AND IT WAS THE RIGHT KIND
OF EVIDENCE FOR THAT JURY.

AND THEY WHOLEHEARTEDLY ACCEPTED

THE STATE'S THEORY
OF THE CASE.

AFTER JUST 1 HOUR
OF DELIBERATION,

THE JURY FOUND RICHARD GLOSSIP
GUILTY OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER.

JUST 4 HOURS LATER,

THEY SENTENCED HIM TO DIE
BY LETHAL INJECTION.

AFTER THE SENTENCING,

RICHARD GLOSSIP WAS
RETURNED TO DEATH ROW.

AND SNEED WENT BACK
TO HIS MEDIUM-SECURITY FACILITY

TO SERVE OUT HIS LIFE SENTENCE.

DO YOU THINK
YOU SHOULD BE IN HERE?

LIKE, DO YOU THINK
THERE'S A REASON YOU'RE HERE?

AND DO YOU THINK
YOU SHOULD STAY HERE?

UM...

DO I THINK THAT I SHOULD SPEND

THE REST OF A NATURAL-BORN LIFE
OFF IN THE PENITENTIARY?

NO, BECAUSE WE
TEACH OUR CHILDREN

THAT BEING HONEST
IS THE ONLY WAY

THAT ANYBODY CAN HELP THEM
OUT OF ANY TYPE

OF PUNISHMENT OR WHATEVER.

SO I WONDER
WHAT EXAMPLE IT SETS

TO YOUNGER PEOPLE
EVEN BEING TRUTHFUL

BECAUSE THEN IT TELLS ME

THAT THERE IS NO REWARD

FOR EVEN BEING TRUTHFUL.

JUSTIN, THIS IS MY PARTNER,
DETECTIVE BEMO.

HOW YOU BEEN?
GOOD.

HOW YOU DOING?
ALL RIGHT.

EVER SINCE THE POLICE
INVESTIGATION,

I DECIDED TO TRUST
THEM WITH THE TRUTH

BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE
GOING TO KEEP THEIR WORD,

AND THEY WERE GOING
TO ALLOW ME TO GO HOME.

I MEAN, I PRETTY MUCH KNEW
THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE

SOME TYPE OF PUNISHMENT
OR WHATEVER,

BUT I NEVER THOUGHT IN MY LIFE

THAT IT WAS GOING TO BE LOCKED
INSIDE A PENITENTIARY

FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

ACROSS THE STATE,
GLOSSIP SPENDS

23 HOURS A DAY ALONE
IN A WINDOWLESS CELL.

EACH HOUR BRINGS HIM CLOSING
TO HIS IMPENDING EXECUTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK
IT'S ULTIMATELY

GOING TO TAKE
TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

I MEAN, IT MUST BE AGONIZING.

IT'S REALLY HARD.

YOU GOT SOMEONE'S LIFE
ON THE LINE...

RIGHT, AND IT'S
INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT

BECAUSE THERE IS
SOMEBODY'S LIFE ON THE LINE.

THE WORST PART IS THIS CASE

WAS A REALLY,
REALLY GOOD, TRIABLE CASE.

AND THIS ONE, IN PARTICULAR,
IS SO HARD BECAUSE

HE'S EXHAUSTED
ALL OF HIS APPEALS,

ALL OF HIS LEGAL MECHANISMS,
CLEMENCY, EVERYTHING.

WE ARE THE LAST BEST CHANCE
THAT RICH HAS,

AND WE HAVE TO SUCCEED BECAUSE,

IF WE FAIL, HE DIES.

AND WE CAN'T HAVE THAT HAPPEN.

THIS IS CRAP!

THIS IS A BULL ****
P.R. CAMPAIGN.

THAT'S ALL IT IS.

IF IT WAS A BULL ****
PR CAMPAIGN,

I GUESS I WOULDN'T HAVE
BROUGHT AN AFFIDAVIT WITH ME.

WE ARE DEALING
FROM A SITUATION

WHERE THE STATE
IS LOOKING TO DO THIS.

THEY WANT THIS MAN DEAD,

SO WE'RE FACING LONG ODDS.