Woman with Gloria Steinem (2016–…): Season 1, Episode 5 - USA: Mothers Behind Bars - full transcript

I've traveled the world
as a writer and an activist

for my entire life.

What we are talking about
is a revolution.

We are the women that
our parents warned us about.

And I can tell you
that by confronting the problems

once marginalized
as "women's issues,"

we can tackle
the greatest dangers

of the 21st century.

Behind every major crisis,

there's an unseen factor
at play,

a story you've never been told.



The greatest indicator
of the world's stability,

wealth, and safety
is the status of women.

The United States
locks up more women

than any other nation
in the world,

with over 200,000 behind bars.

75% of those inmates are mothers

and the primary caregivers
to their children.

Love you, baby!
Love you!

The trauma
this separation creates

for both mother and child
ripples for generations,

fueling
a self-perpetuating cycle

that for millions
is nearly impossible to escape.

Bye, Mom!

Love you.



Mom, it's Erika.

Go get in the truck, baby.

Bye, Mama!

I'm on my way
to speak with several formerly

and currently incarcerated women
who have one thing in common --

They're all moms.

I think that whether your parent
is a criminal or not,

it doesn't stop them
being your parent.

You know, you still love them,

regardless of the crimes
they've committed,

and ultimately,
you still need a mom.

Smile for the camera.

Hi, baby.

Hi, Mom.

The first time
I've ever hugged...

Right?

For Chacha,
seeing her oldest son, Raphael,

on visitation days
is the 1 hour a week

that she can feel
like a mom again.

Let me see them muscles.

No.

You didn't tell me
you was coming yesterday.

Nah, it's sort of a surprise.

I know.

How do you cope

with trying to be a parent
when you're here?

That's hard.

Yeah.

Basically, when you're in here,

I feel like you can't
do nothing.

The only thing you can do

is just call them

or see them
in the visit, you know.

But there's nothing you could do

while you're in here.

I have -- My 15-year-old's
incarcerated right now

'cause he ran away.

He has to do 3 months
in a juvenile detention center.

I feel like they're acting out,

because I'm not around.

So Raphael is actually trying
to be his caretaker, you know.

It worries me.

I just -- I feel like

I've forced him to be a parent.

Yeah.

Like nearly 30,000 other women
currently behind bars,

Chacha was sent to prison
for a nonviolent drug offense.

For the past 6 years of my life,

I've had an addiction,

and I was selling drugs.

And I got caught.

Since 1980,

the female prison population

has increased 800 percent.

2/3 of women behind bars
are there for nonviolent,

mostly drug-related offenses.

Even though these drug
violations are often minor,

women are at the mercy of
harsh criminal justice policies

built over the last 30 years.

America's public enemy
number one is drug abuse.

In order to fight
and defeat this enemy,

it is necessary to wage
a new, all-out offensive.

We entered an era in America

where our politicians started
competing with each other

over who can be
the toughest on crime.

Today marks a major victory
in our crusade against drugs.

A package to toughen sentences,

beef up law enforcement,
and build new prison space.

If you go back on drugs, then
you have to go back to jail.

Bryan Stevenson, a law
professor and social-justice activist,

explains how
this tough-on-crime culture

landed us where we are today.

We made the choice
to deal with drug addiction

as a crime issue
rather than a health issue,

and that has targeted
many women.

Most of these women

would not have been sent
to jail or prison 40 years ago.

We're sending them there now

because we have
mandatory sentencing laws,

because we have
these ridiculous drug laws

that criminalize people

because of their addiction
or their dependency,

and because we are indifferent

to the context,
the stories behind the crimes

that get people arrested
and prosecuted.

What impact do you think it has
on society as a whole

when you lock up
the matriarch of the family?

Children who grow up without
a primary loving relationship

are children who are going
to end up in really chaotic,

stressful, often violent lives.

And the child
of mothers in prison

are significantly more likely
to end up in jails and prisons

than the child --
the children of men.

So it has long-term
generational consequences

to put so many women
in jails and prisons.

It's this cycle of incarceration

that weighs so heavily
on Chacha's mind.

In fact, her own mom
was in prison

for much of her childhood.

I lost my mom to the drugs.

So, um...

It must be frustrating
and heartbreaking for you

Yes. to see that,
like, textbook-wise...

...you were meant to end up here.

I never understood why my mom
couldn't get it together for us.

But now I do,
because I went through it.

Yeah.

And I worry about it.

That's why I feel like
it has to stop here because,

like, my 17-year-old,

I'm scared that he's gonna
end up in jail again.

I know he's out there
doing things he shouldn't.

Right, and do you think it's 'cause
-- And I worry about him a lot.

I'm scared that he's gonna
take the same path as me.

Today, one in 25 female inmates

in state prison is pregnant
when she is locked up.

A vast majority of these women
have their babies taken away

and put
into the foster-care system

almost immediately after birth.

Jessica Venegas was one of them.

Are you ready to get up?

Spin?
Yeah.

Are you sure?
Three times.

Three times?

How many is three?
Show me.

No!

My parents sold drugs
out of the house.

So we saw that growing up.

By the time she was a teenager,

Jessica was using drugs
and became addicted.

When I had my daughter years
later, I was, like, you know,

I can't just keep letting this
be all right, you know?

It's not all right
for her anymore.

It's not all right for me.

And... I tried to move away,
but it was hard.

I was by myself.

And so what happened?

Like, what was the lead-up
to go into Rikers?

I had just got my eldest
daughter from school.

I dropped her back home
and said, "I'll be right back."

And I went to go buy drugs,
and I got arrested.

And I didn't come right home.

So, she was pretty devastated
behind that.

But leaving Angelica alone
wasn't Jessica's only problem.

At the time of her arrest,
she was 7 months pregnant

with her second child, Jasmine.

And on her third day
in police custody,

her water broke.

I ended up
having emergency C-section.

I just remember waking up
in so much pain

and... them putting
those shackles on my ankles.

New York State
banned the shackling

of pregnant inmates in 2009.

But 2 years after that policy
went into effect,

Jessica found herself chained
to a hospital bed,

in clear violation of the law.

I spent 5 days in the hospital

handcuffed to a bed
in massive pain

from the C-section.

I didn't know where I was.

And then,
they told me, you know,

that she was okay.

And then what happened
after this?

I had a fight
with them to see her

and have visitation
with my baby in the ICU unit.

I'm here on a drug charge.

I just want to see my baby.
I'm not gonna harm anybody.

So... that was hard.

Do you feel
like you missed out on that?

Yeah.
Yeah.

I can't, you know,
get those hours back.

Yeah.

I didn't even get
to feed her, you know,

and do those things
that you want to do

when you first have a baby --

you know, that bond

and... nurture your child.

Afterwards,
the social worker came,

and they were like, you know,

"Unfortunately, she is gonna
go straight into the system

since she was born
with drugs in her system."

So they didn't even
really give me a chance

to have my family intervene
at that point.

I want to have a cookie.

Ooh! Ooh!

When I spoke
with Dr. Carlton Payne,

the chief psychologist of
the Philadelphia Prison System,

he explained the effects
of this kind of separation.

The children move

from multiple caretakers
to multiple living situations.

So they become devastated,

because they have what is called
a detachment disorder.

They can't attach to anybody
because Mom is not there.

So they have
so many different caretakers,

they don't feel safe anywhere.

In fact,
separation from the mother

can actually affect
the hormone levels

in a child's brain,
leading to irreversible changes.

Now your entire brain chemistry
is different.

Now you're in survival mode.

Consequently,
they do worse in school.

They have more societal issues.

They have more anger problems.

And they are seven times
more likely

to be incarcerated themselves.

- Chicken soup?
- Yes!

Jazzy, Savannah.

I'm not --
I'm sorry. I ate.

You ate?
Yeah.

With odds like that,
it's no wonder

this generational repetition
is so hard to defeat.

Yummy?

All right.

Hi.

Three weeks
after Jessica Venegas

gave birth in police custody,

her charges were dropped,
and she was released.

But to get custody
of her newborn baby,

she had to enter rehab
for a year

and give up
her older daughter, Angelica.

Eventually,
they were all reunited,

and now they live together
at Hour Children,

a home for formerly
incarcerated moms.

Have a great day.
Have a good day.

Hey, Mr. Bus Driver
with the funny hair.

You're right -- he does.

Wow.

It's a little silly, right?
He seems nice.

No, he seems nice.

Don't follow me on the bus.

- We're coming with you.
- Have a good day.

Have a good day.

Bye!

I love you!

Aww.

You feel like she's happy?

Yeah.

Yeah.
She's a happy kid.

Angelica's very --
especially from --

from all
that she's been through.

She'll tell you that.

She felt like I left her
one day, you know.

I just left her and never came
back when I got arrested.

So I can understand
her sense of abandonment and --

You know, sometimes
when I go out now, she's like,

you know,
"Why do you have to go out?

Are you really gonna come back?

What if you
don't come back?"

I'm like,
"I'm gonna come back."

No, but, like,
now she just always

has in the back of her mind,

like, you never know.

You know, 'cause
"I've seen you not come home."

How was school?

Yeah?

Even though Angelica
and her mother are back together,

the trauma of the separation

clearly had a profound effect
on their lives and relationship.

Okay, cool.

So, tell me --
you haven't always --

You haven't been with your mom
the whole time, have you?

No, I haven't.

Where were you before?

I was living with my aunt.

Where would you prefer being?
With her.

You prefer living with your aunt?
Yeah.

I don't know why, but there's,
like, a special connection.

Do you not feel like
you've got that with your mom?

No, I know I do,
but I don't feel it as much.

Angelica also has to deal
with the stigma

of having a mother
who was incarcerated.

And that feeling of shame can
lead to anxiety and depression.

Did you feel like you had to
grow up a lot real quick?

Yeah. So, that's when I started
playing games a lot more.

Like, I used to never
play games,

but now I'm on the game
every day for maybe two hours.

Yeah?
Do you talk to other kids?

No.
No?

No.

I'm not a social person.

Why do you think that is?

Why do you think
you're not social?

I don't know.

I feel like I'm not a person
as people think that I am.

I mean, I'm possibly maybe
the quietest kid on the bus.

I usually just sit down
and read this book.

Yeah?
Yeah.

But that'll really be it.

I usually make sure
that I always, like,

have a book with me, and if not,

I'll probably just maybe
do my homework or something.

Even though Jessica never went
to prison after her arrest,

it's obvious that her time
in police custody

had serious consequences
for her and her kids.

But there are some stories
that inspire hope

in a system that tears
so many families apart.

She's off!

This is Crystal Degnitz,

and this is
her 15-month-old baby, Oliviana.

They both live here

at Bedford Hills
Correctional Facility for Women.

Like the other inmates I met,
it was a drug addiction

that landed Crystal
where she is today.

I didn't start using drugs

until after I had
my older three kids.

What originally happened

was I went to a doctor
who gave me pain medication.

And the first time I took it,
it helped me be able to clean,

and I felt like I could take
so much better care of them.

I started going
to multiple doctors

to get more and more.

And then
when that wasn't enough,

that's when it turned
to the street drugs.

In 2014, Crystal was arrested

for stealing
to support her habit

and sentenced
to 2 years in prison.

And I found out I was pregnant

when I was incarcerated.

So, um...
it's just a huge shock.

Yeah.

That August, Crystal gave birth

in a nearby hospital
to Oliviana.

But unlike Jessica, Crystal
was able to keep her baby,

because Bedford Hills has
a prison nursery program --

the first one in the country,
created in 1901.

Inmates give birth
at a nearby hospital,

and they can live
with their babies in the nursery

for up to 18 months.

For Crystal,
this was an opportunity

to change her life.

I already have three teenagers.

And I didn't
do it right by them.

So I feel like this is,
like, my second chance.

It's a chance that most
pregnant inmates never get.

Since New York State
opened the nursery

at Bedford Hills
over a century ago,

only eight states have followed.

I strongly support
nursery programs.

It's really good therapy,

rehabilitation incentive
for incarcerated people.

If you're living for an infant

or someone
you care deeply about,

you don't think about yourself
quite as much.

You have to think
about other people.

And that makes you
a more responsible person.

You're being released tomorrow

for the first time with
your baby girl.

How do you feel about that?

I'm a little bit nervous.

It's safe here.

The outside influences
I don't have here...

Right.
...are a huge thing.

Right.
So it's -- it's nerve wracking.

But I know my priorities
are different...

...than they used to be.

Whatever happens,

Crystal has a long
and difficult journey ahead.

But this experience
of bonding with her baby

in a prison nursery

might be just what she needs
to keep her on track.

Hey!
Princess!

Hey!

Hi!
Say "Hi."

Say "Hi."
Hi!

Congratulations!
Thank you.

Thank you.

She's never seen a car.

Aah! You excited?

Yes.
How do you feel?

I didn't sleep.
Didn't you?

Not a wink?
No. Not at all.

Just tossing and the turning?
Yeah.

All right, well,
let's get moving.

Let's get all your stuff in.

Okay.

Where are we?

They've got TVs on each side.
Yeah.

Hey!
My goodness!

Crystal Degnitz
and her baby, Oliviana,

are just being released
from the prison nursery program

at Bedford Hills Correctional
Facility in upstate New York.

To ease her re-entry
into society, Crystal

will be living at Hour Children,
just like Jessica.

And here you are.

Ooh!

Look!

Oliviana!

A regular bed.

Yeah, we got to change
your diaper.

Princess!

It is just
the beginning of her journey

and her life
on the outside world.

The odds are
stacked against her,

but it's gonna be a lot easier

when you have
a support structure,

you're with other women that are
in the same position as you.

And hopefully,
they can all help each other out

and she'll be able
to move forward.

Of course.

When we lock up mothers,

their families suffer
devastating consequences,

but so does
the larger community.

It disrupts the one force

that has helped communities
and people survive

the chaos of over-incarceration,

the chaos
of generational poverty,

which is
a primary loving relationship.

Whoo-hoo!
Yeah, baby!

And for most families,
that primary loving relationship

is created and sustained
by the mother.

And we need to recognize
the damage that we are doing

to the hopes and aspirations
of whole communities

when we needlessly
and unnecessarily put

women and mothers in prisons.

According to Carlton
Payne, there are concrete steps

that we can take to break
the cycle of incarceration.

How can we keep
the next generation

from coming into this facility?

Look at it long-term.

A cost-benefit analysis
points out

that drug and alcohol
intervention

is much more effective
than incarceration.

Because they'll be in jail
for a period of time

And then they'll go right back
to what they were doing.

And then they'll recidivate.

So if we can have
a program for treatment

while they're
in their community,

it would bolster their ability
to stay in their community.

Right.
Yes.

But for the women
who are already in prison

and their children, the damage
has already been done.

Yeah.
I love you.

Love you, too.
Just so happy to see you.

Yeah.

I think only thing I can do
is just work on me

so that when I get out there,
I can help them.

Yeah.

Make sure that I'm okay.

'Cause if I'm not okay
I can't help them.

I can't help myself.
I can't help them.

What do you think's
the number-one thing

that he needs right now?

Me.

Since our report,
Chacha is out of prison,

and Jessica and Crystal still
live at Hour Children

with their daughters.

In many ways,
they are the lucky ones.

They were able
to access programs

that so many
female inmates can't.

And it's for them --
the tens of thousands

of other incarcerated mothers
and their children --

that we must change
the current system

if we want any hope

of breaking this terrible cycle
of incarceration.

To learn how you can support
incarcerated women

and their children,