Trial by Media (2020–…): Season 1, Episode 1 - Talk Show Murder - full transcript
A man reveals his crush to a straight friend on 'The Jenny Jones Show.' Days later a murder occurs, leading to questions about the show's culpability.
This is a secret
she told us about you.
Ay-yay-yay.
I have something to tell you.
Um, I've been having an affair
for the past five months.
I get sick and tired
of seeing Uncle Tom here
sucking up, trying to be a white...
Only slightly the worse for the wear.
- Today is a shocking true story...
- Gonna be a good show...
- Are you in fact sleeping with Leo?
- Yes, I am.
Is this a wig?
If you call her all these names,
why did you marry her?
'Cause I needed a place to live.
- Are you sexually active?
- Mm-hmm.
Okay, Mom, there's your answer.
You didn't ask, but I did.
She's very much a slut.
Several talk shows
have been under fire...
These shows are no longer places where
intelligent information is exchanged.
- Jerry!
- I think our show is addictive.
I'm really a man.
Oh!
The most vulnerable are being exploited
and manipulated.
These people are not
sophisticated enough...
That's elitist, isn't it?
What do you mean, they're not
sophisticated? This is America.
It's fun. The adrenaline.
It's, like, you know, it's so awesome.
People have gotten so confused
between shame and fame.
You'll find The Jenny Jones Show
to be probably
the most fun talk show on the air.
These guys are
way over the line.
Probably 80 percent of our shows
are either makeovers
or reunions or secret crush.
Talk shows are killing the nation.
This is not wrestling! It's a talk show!
It's like saying
that refrigerator in the kitchen
is what's making me fat.
Well, hello. It's not.
- There are no boundaries anymore.
- Reality is reflecting Hollywood.
The former producer says
the competitive talk show market
could be creating a dangerous environment.
Hopefully, we've hit the bottom.
I mean, how much worse can it get?
- I think I just shot a man.
- Okay.
- I'm just turning myself in.
- Okay.
I just shot this guy!
Okay, why did you do that?
Because he played
a very bad fucking thing on me.
He took me on Jenny Jones.
Let's have Jon come out here
and see who has the crush on him.
Guess what?
It's Scott that has the crush on you.
You lied to me.
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
Um, no. No.
No, I did not.
A few days after the taping,
Jonathan Schmitz showed up
at Scott Amedure's mobile home.
Killed by two blasts
from a shotgun...
Shot him twice in the chest.
Amedure died on the floor of his home.
Any... Any regrets, Jon?
On my brother's
25th anniversary of his death,
we had a cat have a heart embolism.
And there really wasn't anything
that we could do about it.
And then we got lucky and found this one.
And she's got, like, a little goatee.
Aw, she's a little sweetheart.
My name's Frank Amedure,
and my brother Scott Amedure
was murdered
after he was on The Jenny Jones Show
back in 1995.
Now, there's me.
I'm the oldest.
W...
Wayne.
Mike.
And that was Scott.
So Scott was still in diapers
in that picture.
Scott always wanted to be on TV, in the...
the limelight.
This is him with a girl
that played on One Day At a Time.
I think her name's Julie Cooper.
Here's some Army picture.
I found out that he was gay
when he was still in the service.
And, uh, it was never really a big deal.
Surprisingly, even my dad
didn't have any issues with it.
And here's Scott showing off his muscles.
As you know, he was a soldier.
He wasn't, like, a wimpy guy.
If, um, Jonathan Schmitz would have
came after him without a gun,
and with a knife or...
something,
or just a physical confrontation,
Scott would have whupped his ass
all over the place.
Any... And regrets, Jon?
Jonathan Schmitz
was 24 years old.
He worked at, uh, a local restaurant
no longer in existence
called the Fox & Hounds across the street.
Jonathan and Scott met
through Donna Riley.
Donna lived
in an apartment complex
where Jonathan lived
and where Scott Amedure's brother lived.
Scott came over one day
to see his brother,
and Jonathan was fixing Donna Riley's car,
her brakes, at the time,
out in the parking lot of this building.
Scott was quite the handyman.
He was kind of a homemade electrician.
He knew how to do stuff like that.
That's how they met.
Do you have a secret crush
you'd like to reveal to a same-sex friend?
Call 312-836-9455.
Scott was a big fan
of The Jenny Jones Show.
It was known from friends of his
that he watched the show
on a regular basis.
I think that Scott Amedure
genuinely liked Jonathan,
and I think that he thought
this would be a way
to kind of move this thing along.
That's how it got started.
And then the television show
contacted Jonathan.
They said, "You've been identified
by someone"
who has a secret crush on you.
It could be a man.
"It could be a woman."
Um...
And he would have to come on the show
to find out who the individual was.
Jonathan Schmitz
had a very gentle soul.
I mean, he was a real nice,
sweet, decent guy
who was manipulated, used, pushed around,
tormented, and triggered
into doing something terrible.
So many of the murder cases
that I cover are cut-and-dried.
There was none of that here.
There were so many issues
that I grappled with,
and to this day,
I still haven't resolved in my mind.
It was the news media
that greeted Jon Schmitz...
Jonathan Schmitz faces
a first-degree murder charge...
Schmitz's parents sobbed
when they heard details of the crime.
It was a difficult trial, even though,
frankly, as a prosecutor,
I've never seen a clearer case
of first-degree premeditated murder.
Last one? Three...
have requested a...
This was a big deal
because nobody had committed murder
as a result of being on a trash talk show.
The methods of the show
were outrageous and immoral,
but I think Jonathan Schmitz
still committed murder one,
and he should pay for that crime.
Are you responsible yourself,
or is the person who put you
into that situation responsible?
You cannot kill
another human being
for words spoken by that human being.
Embarrassment is not an excuse for murder.
In everyday life,
a lot of people will be embarrassed,
but the law is intended to protect people
from criminal acts,
not to give people a pass...
For murdering somebody
because they have some characteristic
that you don't like about them.
All right. He appears
to have pulled the gloves on, counsel.
In the 1990s, Hollywood figured out
that the best soap opera is real life.
This is not an arrangement
or an understanding.
This is a marriage.
You know, I'm not sitting here
as some little woman
standing by my man
like Tammy Wynette.
Previously private things
were coming out in the news,
as well as, uh, in entertainment.
You want to inform.
- You also have to entertain.
- Yes.
You have to draw an audience.
- Right. Well...
- Every day you have to make this decision.
They won't watch male strippers
five days a week.
They watch them from time to time.
Certainly, and you'd better
haul 'em out once in a while
if you wanna survive in the daytime arena.
Every television show
deals with ratings,
and, uh, if you don't compete well,
you're not gonna be there.
Jenny Jones
has something different for your daytime.
Boy, do I have a show for you.
Here's a program
you can relate to.
This is gonna be a good show
'cause today we're gonna talk
about women and stress.
Jenny Jones started out
wanting to be Oprah Winfrey.
Has anybody made this at home?
Done potpourris?
You want color. You want texture.
You want smell.
But she quickly discovered
that her show was more popular
as Jerry Springer.
How do you know
this isn't your baby then?
I just... uh...
You lied to me. You're a dog.
You're a snake. You're conniving.
You're a slut.
Jenny Jones, Sally Jessy Raphael,
Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer,
Maury Povich, Montel Williams,
they all had the same type of formats,
and the term "ambush television"
referred to television episodes
that were kept secret
from the participants.
These shows function
on emotional drama and catharsis.
Today we're reuniting couples
who have had one-night stands.
Come on out, Garrett.
So you have to get people
who can be manipulated
into a situation
where that's what they give out.
Two months after the night
we slept together,
I found out I was pregnant.
- Do you see a resemblance?
- Yes.
It's easy to forget
that these are real people
with real secrets that are being exposed.
- What does it feel like? Is it...
- Scary. I mean, I don't know.
You know, what kind of entertainment
is that? But you know what that is.
That's just, like, the rubberneck effect,
you know,
where people are driving down the highway
and there's a real bad accident,
everybody wants to look and see blood.
Sort of
a schadenfreude thing, too,
you know,
watching other people's troubles.
"Eh, our life isn't so bad
when I see these idiots on television."
Kinda makes you feel normal
after you watch that.
People watch. People want
that kind of sensationalism,
that kind of voyeurism.
I don't think Jenny Jones started out
trying to lower the common denominator
of life on television.
I slept with my mother's best friend.
And you won't believe
what else you'll hear.
She just discovered
that's the way you're a success.
Now, which of these ways would you choose
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
A, would you write that person a letter?
B, would you tell the person in private
in case he rejects you?
Or C, would you tell that person
that you're gay
and you hope he is on national television
in front of millions of people?
He knows you're gay, right?
- Yeah.
- Do you know that he is?
- No.
- Anything's possible.
You hope. You hope. Do you have any reason
to think he is, Donna? I mean...
Um, not really. He, um...
He said that his family
kinda question him on it.
What is it that's so exciting
about him to you?
Um, he's got a cute little hard body.
Um, you know, one you just wanna pick up
and put in your curio cabinet,
you know, dust him off once in a while.
- He's cute.
- You wanna physically pick him up?
Oh, he's just a tiny little cute thing.
He's gorgeous.
Well, all right.
Let's see if he really is.
Get the headphones off of Jon,
and let's have Jon come out here
and see who has the crush on him.
Here's Jon.
Hi, Jon.
- Did you think Donna had the crush on you?
- Did I? No, we're good friends.
Guess what?
It's Scott that has the crush on you.
You lied to me.
Interesting.
Uh, before we chat, take a look at...
We'll show a little playback
of what Scott said about you, Jon.
Take a look at that monitor there.
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard,
and I just...
Yeah, I thought about tying him up
to my hammock.
Um...
And?
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
Oh, my God!
Oh...
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
Um, no, no.
No, I did not.
Can you tell us what your status is?
Are you involved with anybody, or...
Um, no.
But I am, uh, definitely heterosexual,
I guess you could say.
It was pretty clear
that he was emotionally, um, distraught.
- Jon, how you doing? Okay?
- I'm doing good.
What stuck out was the way
Jenny Jones was priming the audience...
Would you tell that person that you're gay
and you hope he is on national television
in front of millions?
Telling them the titillating situation
that was about to occur.
Here's Jon.
When he first walked out on the stage...
It's not clear whether he thinks
the secret admirer is Donna or Scott.
I actually thought Jonathan came out
and was very good-natured.
And then there's an awkward embrace.
An awkward embrace.
You can't really tell
who's reacting to who.
Then the bomb
was dropped on him.
Guess what?
Scott has the crush on you.
You lied to me.
Interesting.
He had, you know,
that frozen smile on his face.
He's smiling in an excessive sort of way.
He's clearly uncomfortable.
Take a look at that monitor.
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard,
and I just...
Yeah, I thought about
tying him up to my hammock.
She knew what she was doing.
And she asked snappy questions.
And?
She earned her money.
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
I mean, if she had been
an honest and decent person,
she would have said...
"Stop the cameras."
You know, "Let's... Let's stop right here."
He puts his hands up over his face.
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
Um, no, no. No, I did not.
Jonathan is kind of sitting there
with either no expression on his face,
or a grin, or a chuckle, or a smile.
Pretty quickly, Jonathan said,
"I'm a hundred percent heterosexual."
I guess you could say.
He determined in that moment
it was important for the audience
to understand
that he wasn't gay.
He seemed a little uncomfortable,
but nothing over the top.
I don't think anybody saw what was coming,
but you could see
that he was not comfortable
with what was going on there.
- Are you very disappointed?
- No, actually. No, no.
- You know, the thing is...
- It's a nice compliment.
If nothing else, it's a nice compliment
to pay somebody. We'll take a break...
No one threatens anybody.
There's no physical confrontation.
Nobody accuses anybody.
It's pretty normal stuff.
Afterwards, Donna, Jonathan,
and Scott were hanging out together.
So there was no overt signs
that Jonathan was troubled
to the point that he would do
something dramatic.
Did the defendant voice
any displeasure about being on the show?
- No.
- Did he voice any anger
towards Scott Amedure?
No.
And then Scott apparently left a...
provocative sexual note
where Jonathan would find it.
That was the third day after the show.
Scott left a suggestive note
on Jonathan's doorway,
along with one
of those flashing construction lights.
I believe the note said something
to the effect of,
"You have the tool to turn this off."
He just indicated he became angry,
and, uh, at that point, he indicated
he just made a decision to kill Amedure.
So Jonathan went to the bank.
He then went
and purchased ammunition.
He then went and bought a gun.
He was very cool, calm, and collected.
Was he rude to you?
Oh, not... not in the least, no. Very...
Very polite young man.
And then he drove
to Scott's mobile home in Orion Township.
Knocked on the door.
There was some sort of discussion.
At that point, he told Scott
he had to go out and shut his car off.
He exited the residence
and retrieved the shotgun.
There was a man in the house
who testified.
Scott stood back from the door
and said,
"Gary, help. He's got a gun."
He used the shotgun in a sweeping motion
to knock the door back open.
At that point, uh,
Amedure grabbed a wicker chair,
pulled it up in front of him,
and was kind of backing away
from the door.
And at that point, the gun went off.
There was a shot.
When he described what happened,
the smoke coming from his body
and the wheezing and things,
um...
it had to be an awful thing
for him to, uh...
be there.
And then wait for the ambulance
and all that.
This is us in Ohio,
before we moved to Pittsburgh.
So, I went over to the house.
I was real high on adrenaline.
My heart was racing the whole time.
And, uh, you know, I had the radio on.
I guess it was like I needed to get there
and find out
if what I was hearing was true.
And I walked up,
and these detectives came up to me.
They told me that I'd better get a lawyer.
That it was gonna be a media circus.
And that's when everything became,
like, unreal.
Thirty-two-year-old
Scott Amedure is dead...
Amedure died Thursday,
killed by two blasts from a shotgun.
I don't know what happened.
I have no idea. I'm just in shock.
It had to do with the Jenny...
Jenny Jones taping.
I don't think they've showed it yet.
'Cause we were waiting
to see it ourselves.
And that one scene where
they're taking my brother out on the...
in the body bag,
um, I was standing there.
Nothing has ever been the same
ever since that.
Later, Jonathan Schmitz
shot and killed...
The suspect turned
his weapon and himself over to police.
A few days after the taping,
back in Michigan,
a chagrined Schmitz showed up
at Amedure's mobile home.
Investigators have
a confession and eyewitness.
Schmitz then called 911
and confessed.
Now he's on trial for first-degree murder.
In the 1990s,
people started looking at a courtroom
as a kind of television set.
How much interest
has this particular case generated?
A lot of interest.
It's not just people involved
in the case who can experience it.
You never know what to expect
from Court TV's
live daytime trial coverage.
It's everybody
around the country,
and so it becomes fodder
for entertainment.
Court TV took what was already a big story
and blew it up.
Gavel-to-gavel coverage
is what they boasted about.
Every witness, every motion,
every everything.
This was sensational
in so many ways, and not good ways.
And because of the celebrity,
because of the brutality of this murder,
this was hitting all of those buttons.
It was sensational enough that they knew
if they parked their camera at that court,
they were gonna have a pretty good feed
every single day.
After Jonathan killed Scott,
he went to a pay telephone.
He called 911.
He indicated that he had just shot Scott
because he had been embarrassed
on national TV.
- I think I just shot a man.
- Okay.
I'm just turning myself in.
Okay.
Can you tell me what happened?
I just walked in
and fucking killed him.
I just want you to try to relax.
Can you take a deep breath for me?
I know you're upset, okay?
We're gonna help you, though.
- He's fairly hysterical here?
- Yes.
After the shooting,
he got in his car and he drove
to a gas station, called the police.
I mean, does that sound like a guy
who's out there
looking to... to murder somebody?
Is he anxious to murder somebody?
No. He just...
It happened, and he called
because that's the kind of guy he is.
"I did something wrong.
Now I gotta pay for it.
I have to confess. I have to give it up."
Ladies and gentlemen,
there was no murder here.
There was a shooting,
but there was no murder.
That was a case
of what his motivations were
and whether he was doing
what he was doing on purpose.
He was bipolar.
He had a syndrome of affective disorder,
and he has depression reoccurring.
He said he has made attempts of suicide.
Jonathan had taken a whole bottle
of my heart medicine.
This was a young man
who had a lot of baggage.
And he stated
that his father was an abusive father.
I found out that Jon had been, uh,
skipping class.
And, uh...
I... I punished him.
I took off my belt, and I pulled his hair
and strapped him on the, uh, butt
as I took him into class.
- In front of the class?
- Yes.
He had very serious Graves' disease,
which also causes misfires in the brain.
When I saw him, it was quite advanced.
He was very severely thyrotoxic.
Most people who have hyperthyroidism
can continue on without killing somebody.
Is that correct?
Correct.
I had Graves' disease myself
and, uh, I had some depression.
But depression doesn't make people go out
and kill people,
so I think that's just, uh,
reaching for straws there.
And then, after the show,
Jon was completely humiliated
and... and revealed his humiliation.
Not in so many words,
but only an idiot wouldn't see
how humiliated he was.
No.
It shouldn't be humiliating.
Imagine if every time
a woman is hit on in a bar,
she can just fly into a rage
and kill that person.
When Scott attempted to hug him,
he felt literally trapped...
Instead of saying,
"Jeez, I'm sorry, kid," you know.
"We were just having a little fun.
It went too far.
Didn't mean to embarrass you..."
No.
He took the other route.
Push, push, push.
Leave these little notes.
He kept pushing him further and further,
this guy with a very delicate
psychiatric situation.
If he knew the word "fragile,"
he would tell him, "I'm really fragile."
That's what he was trying to tell him.
And Amedure basically told him,
"I'll do anything that I wanna do
with you or anybody else,
so fuck off."
Can I say that on Netflix?
"So, fuck off."
That's when he went out into the car,
pulled out the gun, loaded it up,
walked to the front door again,
holding it like this. Not pointed at him.
Is there a significance
to the fact
that Jon did not come back with the gun
charging in the house, shooting?
It's a non-predatory stance.
Yes, it's true that I saw the defendant
standing on the stoop
with a gun in his hands.
Now what else
do you need to know here, sir?
Instead of saying,
"Jeez, Jon. I'm sorry, ah..."
he picks up a chair.
And the next thing you saw
was Scott picking up a chair. Correct?
I'm not sure of the sequence.
And he says, "Get the fuck out of here."
And he starts to throw it.
You gotta be careful with Burdick.
I remember...
I remember there was a wicker chair.
That was the moment
that Jon's mind totally snapped.
That's when Jonathan turns the gun on him
and shoots him.
I mean, if anybody was asking
to get killed that day...
I guess when I walked out
of the courtroom,
it wasn't so much that I was angry.
I, uh...
I felt that I just wanted everybody
to know that,
uh, you know, this is a bunch of bull.
They've thrown
a number of defenses at you.
The shotgun approach.
Maybe it was self-defense.
Maybe it was a flashback to childhood.
We have to separate this case.
Certainly not first-degree.
It's not second-degree murder
because there was no ability
to form an intent,
unless you believe that Jon wasn't
suffering from any mental disorder.
And there was no ability
to form enough of an intent
for the prosecution
to be able to prove to you,
beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter.
If the jury decides
he is not guilty of first-degree murder,
then they have to decide
on several other options.
I don't know how
I convinced him. I got the judge to use
lesser included offenses of second-degree,
voluntary manslaughter,
involuntary manslaughter.
And then I got him to agree
to discharge of a weapon
in the city limits,
injury or death resulting,
which is a two-year misdemeanor.
They deliberated
over a few days.
And then, of course,
the judge is very concerned
about they're gonna be influenced
by this massive media presence.
Our verdict, um,
as to the charge
of first-degree premeditated murder
is guilty of the lesser offense
of second-degree murder.
That could have clearly been
a first-degree murder conviction.
And I think that's testament
to how good his defense attorneys were.
Jonathan's reaction after the verdict
was like Jonathan's reaction
on The Jenny Jones Show.
His face was a mask.
You could not tell
what Jon's real reaction was.
You will not be able to tell...
The jury and the media
was sorry for Schmitz,
and so he got off with murder two.
Do you... Did you like Jonathan?
Absolutely. I told my husband
right after the trial started
that I wouldn't even mind
having a son like that.
I think he's a wonderful person,
and it's just...
uh, it's an unhappy set of circumstances.
The final episode Wednesday
of the so-called talk show murder trial.
It was sentencing day
for convicted killer Jonathan Schmitz.
A minimum of 25 years
in state prison,
maximum not more than 50 years.
I can tell you that, uh,
the reaction was not just heartbreak.
I think it was probably
more like shattered.
I've even talked to his dad,
and we were all there together, you know?
And somehow we all kind of felt
like we all got screwed.
You know, we all...
We... We shouldn't even be here.
Jonathan was a good boy.
Jonathan never did anything
in his whole life.
He really is a good kid,
and I just feel so badly
that he has to be
the sacrificial lamb, you know,
for a dumb talk show.
You know, Jonathan was a victim
in this thing.
I'm not saying that he was right,
but I'm saying that he lost too.
Well, he was, in a way.
You know, he shouldn't have been put
in that position to begin with.
So he was a victim too.
Yeah, he was a victim too.
So, you know, I don't argue that.
I want to set the record straight.
First, as much as we all regret
what happened,
the fact is that this tragedy
is about the actions of one individual.
I gotta say
that I blame the producers...
probably just about as much
because it was their job
to go out and find people
that they could, uh, exploit.
Um, that's what they do for a living.
Exploit people.
While the murder trial comes to a close,
the civil suit in this matter
hasn't even gotten underway.
Amedure's family
is suing the show.
I do believe that
this would not have happened
if it were not for The Jenny Jones Show.
The Jenny Jones Show
that was responsible
for literally almost everything
that happened here
because the show was the catalyst.
What was astonishing to me
is that the coverage continued.
There was still a huge amount
of interest in it.
Beth, how significant is
the media presence at the trial?
Well, it is growing.
The Jenny Jones Show
is charged with negligence,
gross negligence, and willful...
suing the show, Telepictures,
and Warner Brothers for $50 million.
It was just a story that didn't seem
like it was ever gonna end.
Is the talk show industry
watching this case
with any concern or interest?
I think they're very concerned.
If you can be found liable,
it's gonna change everything.
Jenny, you are responsible
for what happened,
and you should take responsibility
for that.
And I fully believe that Geoffrey Fieger
is going to make you understand
your culpability in all of this.
Only one has stood up
and taken on big business
and the government,
and only one is one of the most famous
trial lawyers in America.
There is only one Geoffrey Fieger.
We needed a different kind of lawyer,
and then that's when I called Fieger.
And he, of course, answered the phone,
and he said, "I was wondering
when you were gonna call me."
Did you meet Mr. Fieger?
They were very smart
in calling me.
I knew what to do.
Every case that I have is about a story.
I take every case, and I paint a picture.
Now, the law is quite formulated,
and you have to follow specific rules.
But that's not so unlike technique
of painters
or other artists.
They work with the medium.
And so the medium of the law, I learned.
And my art is the art of telling stories.
Fieger is...
and I say this in the kindest way,
a press animal.
Geoffrey Fieger is a showboat.
Jenny Jones Show better be ready
for this.
He made his name representing
Jack Kevorkian for many years.
Dr. Kevorkian was charged
with first-degree murder
and with assisting in a suicide.
He was a drama major in college.
In the courtroom,
who's gonna stand up for you?
He likes his stardom
here in metro Detroit.
You see billboards and ads on television.
Now it's Fieger Time.
If you trick and lie and deceive
and commit fraud,
like The Jenny Jones Show producers did
with Jonathan Schmitz...
He takes on really high-profile cases,
sometimes those
that I think he knows he's going to lose
but that keeps his name in the paper.
I don't think
I need any more notoriety here.
I was the Democratic nominee for governor.
He's a good man,
and, uh, I think he cares.
Okay. But he comes off very gruff.
They gotta stop.
Who's talking outside?
You've got to get them away.
And arrogant.
Are they discussing settlement?
No, they're not, and it surprises me.
Hm. Opinionated.
Some people might not like
uppity white lawyers. Tough luck.
And you gotta kinda go with it.
The Jenny Jones Show trial
where I put 'em on trial
is about to happen.
He, you know, was a publicity hound.
And I say that in a, you know,
in a respectful way.
If any of you...
should...
be able at any...
particular time...
on any particular day to...
observe the... the entrance
into the Ottawa Cemetery...
Ultimately, if you're going to be
successful in front of a jury,
you've got to make the story compelling
to a human being.
You might observe...
an elderly man...
First of all, Fieger's opening
was two and a half hours long.
You might see them...
on a bright day or on a cloudy day.
You might see them on a windy day
or a snow-filled day.
You might see them on a weekend...
There was a lot of repetition.
There was a lot of redundancy.
And written on that plaque...
is the name...
Scott Amedure.
I have never listened
to a two and a half hour
opening statement,
either before or since.
I'm not gonna try to talk to you
for two and a half hours.
Uh, I don't know if I could stand here
for two and a half hours.
Um... But I am gonna do this.
I am going to talk to you
about what this case is all about,
and I'm gonna talk to you about justice.
Justice in this case
would involve Jonathan Schmitz sitting
in this courtroom.
That would be justice.
Excuse me.
See, it took 60 seconds.
Thank you.
This trial was just an absolute circus.
Bedlam.
You make up just about
everything you say. Isn't that true?
Excuse me. He's badgering.
Don't do that.
Fieger is a very combative,
argumentative cross-examiner.
I'll make it real simple for you.
I know it's difficult for you
to answer some questions.
You're an expert in embarrassment
or humiliation
for the entertainment of other people,
- aren't you?
- No.
I always tell my story
in cross-examination.
Your purpose in doing this show
was to sensationalize, embarrass,
humiliate with regard to sex.
Isn't that true?
That's completely untrue.
And that's all you focused on...
It's more important my questions
than the answers.
You could object to almost every question
Fieger asked if you wanted to.
Objection, Your Honor.
- Where is he coming up with this?
- Excuse me.
And that's tough.
If my question ends up
sounding like a statement,
believe me,
it has a little question mark after it.
I respected him.
Uh, he's a...
You know, he's a difficult advocate
to deal with.
Why would you tell him
it was a man or a woman?
Because he knew
it was a secret crush show,
and I wanted him to know
that it could have been a man or a woman.
Excuse me.
It couldn't have been a woman
since you knew it was a man.
I remember Fieger hammering
on the producers.
You told them
not to tell Jonathan Schmitz
that it was them, didn't you?
We told all the guests on that show
not to say who it was.
So you told them to lie
to Jonathan Schmitz, didn't you?
- Scott has the crush on you.
- You lied to me.
They called about a secret crush show.
It's a secret.
If you wanna understand
what really happened,
everything was done
for the purpose of ratings.
And ratings are money.
And that's really what happened
in the show.
Somebody lost their life for money.
Ridiculous.
Shouldn't they have to pay for that?
Have you developed
an understanding of how people react
to being deceived, embarrassed,
or humiliated on your show?
No, because we don't deceive, embarrass,
or humiliate people on our show.
That may be a tough sell
in front of these jurors.
Gonna be a long day,
tough day, gentlemen, or what?
- It's gonna be a long day.
- A long day?
I knew
that it could easily be argued
that there was a superficial connection
that could have appeal to jurors.
The bottom line here is this:
The show acted
in a perfectly reasonable manner.
I also knew that there was no way
the producers of this television show
owed any kind of a legally cognizable duty
to Scott Amedure
to protect him against criminal activity
by a third party,
be it Jonathan Schmitz or anyone else.
You're flying 'em in.
If you're paying the money
and you're going to make the profits
from your trash TV and your ambush TV,
you damn well...
Legally, to me,
there was no question
that the case ultimately would be decided
in favor of the show,
but that may not happen
until after a trial we lost.
And my responsibility was to establish
a clear difference
between what happened with the show
and what ultimately Jonathan Schmitz did
four days later.
Did you have any reason
to suspect when they left the studio
that Jon Schmitz posed any risk
of violence or physical injury to anyone?
No. He said
he had a great time on the show.
After the show,
there are several kind of critical points.
When they leave the show,
they decide to all fly home together.
As you were leaving the airport,
someone picked up a broken yellow light.
Tell us about that.
Um, it was just laying out
in the middle of the parking lot,
and, um, they were joking back and forth.
And Jon had his old car,
and one of the blinkers didn't work,
so Scott had picked it up
and was teasing with him
and said that
that could be his new blinker for the car.
And then they spent several hours
drinking together.
He called me in Brewski's bar,
and he said, uh,
"That thing didn't work out very well
in Chicago for me, Dad."
He said, uh...
He said, uh, "It was a guy."
Then they go back
to Donna Riley's apartment,
where the party continues.
He told me that they, he and Jon,
had slow danced and kissed.
Excuse me.
How does he come here now
for the first time
without disclosing it?
He wanted to find some reason,
other than the show
and what had happened there,
that Jonathan Schmitz
would've killed Scott.
It was absolutely the result
of his reaction
to this ongoing relationship.
They went out after the show,
but by the time they, uh...
the night was over,
that they had an affair.
In fact, nothing had happened. Nothing.
It is explosive
because it could absolve the defendant,
uh, from any liability.
He told me that they had slept together.
He wanted me to meet him.
- Did it happen?
- No, it didn't happen.
Jon told me before that his family have
confronted him, asked him if he was gay.
Do you have any reason
to think he is, Donna? I mean...
Um, not really.
He, um... He said that his family
kind of questioned him on it.
Did you ever discuss
that he was very conflicted
in his relationship with females?
Absolutely.
Because he had lots of conflicts
with lots of females.
I am, uh, definitely, uh, heterosexual,
I guess you could say.
But it had to do, again, with girls.
I want you to know that. Girls.
- Yes, sir, I know.
- Okay.
- Remember, it's girls. No guys.
- Not any guys.
- That's right.
- Absolutely not, sir.
- No guys.
- That's right. Right.
The whole bottom line was
whether he was gay or not...
it was that he didn't want nobody
to find out about it on TV.
It entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
Oh, my God!
When he finally did call you
after the show had been taped,
you made it pretty clear to him
in that phone conversation
you were angry.
And, in fact, you said gay what?
- Bastards.
- Sure that's all you said?
I... It was something.
It was an expletive of that, whatever.
In fact, what you said
began with an "F"
and ended with an "S," didn't it?
- Yes.
- And you threw a chair, didn't you?
Yes.
There's no excuses.
There's reasons
for why Jon did what he did.
Did you consider
that the note was offensive
- or in any way a cause of the murder?
- It was meant to be a joke.
It was meant to be a joke.
It was meant for a laugh,
to make Jon laugh.
Whether it was that he felt
like his family was gonna find out
that he was gay or that his family
was gonna think that he was gay...
Explain, please,
why you said that Jon had to kill Scott
to prove he was not a homosexual,
and that Jon felt
like he was being stalked.
What does it say on the line before that,
or the question? May I see the statement?
You said
that the overwhelming humiliation
that he would have felt,
that everybody thought
he was a homosexual.
Right. How would you feel
if somebody thought you were a homosexual?
And that's exactly what you communicated
to your son Jon. Right, sir?
I was embarrassed. He was embarrassed.
When you watch the testimony
by Jonathan's father,
you get a glimpse into...
the household of the Schmitz
when Jonathan was growing up.
- Thanks very much.
- Thank you for coming, Mr. Schmitz.
And I think that homophobia
is a part of a lot
of young people's childhoods
still in this country.
It just shows the extent
of how far we have to go.
He shouldn't have been humiliated
to begin with.
Well, in a perfect world, yeah.
But it's not a perfect world.
There's a lot of people
that are gonna be humiliated
if they're thought of as being homosexual.
It's not that I agree with it
or like it or, you know...
Um, it's just a fact of life.
To put a line around it
and say, "Homophobia, this is it."
I'm not sure it's "it"
any more than any one thing is it.
It's a sad story
with a lot of complicated pieces.
But it wouldn't have happened
if it wasn't for The Jenny Jones Show.
We're talking
about experimenting on people for ratings.
Seeing what they'll do
if we put 'em in a certain kind
of a situation.
And that's what they did.
They lit the fuse.
Now, which of these ways would you choose
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
A, would you write that person a letter?
B, would you tell the person in private
in case he rejects you?
Or C, would you tell that person
that you're gay and you hope he is
on national television
in front of millions?
On television, you have to turn reality
into a story.
Jenny Jones is set to take the stand
herself in Pontiac, Michigan...
Not just trash talk shows,
but journalists
recognize that you have to please people
who are expecting a story.
From a strategic point of view,
Fieger needs to get a piece
of Jenny Jones.
She's the star of the show.
I've been looking forward
to seeing her on the stand.
And when you turn a courtroom
into a studio...
Enter the family's
media-savvy attorney...
it ends up looking like a story
with good guys, bad guys,
drama.
Whenever I want her,
she'll be there.
If they ever ask it.
The media wants to use
anything they have.
They want to use
the sensationalism of the trial.
- Ready to tell your side?
- Yes, I sure am.
They wanna use Geoffrey Fieger.
Geoffrey, thanks for joining us.
What happened...
They wanna create
another media experience.
Well, I get that.
She didn't look that good
when she came in.
Didn't look like she'd had much sleep.
That's the way the media works.
It really is TV talk shows on trial here.
We resume our coverage
of The Jenny Jones...
The story becomes the story.
It should be a great trial.
They took real-life drama
and put it in front of a TV camera.
What can we expect
in your examination of her?
I liken it to Colonel Kurtz's
final words in Apocalypse Now.
"The horror.
The horror."
At one point,
I think I was told it had,
I don't know, 475,000 people or something
daily watching this thing.
I tell you what. The trials I've had,
if there are two or three people
sitting in the audience, uh, it's a lot.
So you have a situation
that was really ironic
because, I mean, Court TV is doing this
for exactly the same reason
that another set of producers
is being accused of doing it
for their own gain.
This is Crime Stories.
It was a murder that put TV on trial.
Now, that's a little different
than The Jenny Jones Show,
where they were actually trying
to trick people and hurt people, okay.
Where Court TV, I don't know
that they're trying to hurt people.
They're just trying to make a bunch
of money off of this tragic event.
It's just who was covering the story
that really bothered me.
If it was a completely other company
that was filming the court,
that's one thing, but...
it's the darn company we're suing.
Since Warner Brothers owns Court TV,
and Court TV's ratings have dramatically
shot up during this trial,
they've made a fortune on that end.
They're making money off my brother,
and we're suing you,
and yet you're over here
still making money off of him.
Jenny Jones expected to take
the witness stand sometime this afternoon.
You're not gonna want to miss it.
Stick around.
There's no human aspect
to the decisions of making money.
Okay, I call Jenny Jones to the stand.
It's just like why
they try to get somebody
to break down and cry on a talk show.
You know, even though that's gonna make
that person feel bad and awful or whatnot,
they're gonna do it anyway
because that's what sells.
There's a side of us
that are drawn to that kind of thing.
That sadistic thing in all of us.
We're gonna squeeze in a quick
commercial break. We'll be right back.
It would be embarrassing to you
to have somebody discuss with you here,
without discussing it with you
in advance,
somebody's fantasy about tying you up
to a hammock
and licking whipped cream off of you
with strawberries and champagne...
That would be embarrassing, wouldn't it?
It could be exciting.
Excuse me,
and it would also be embarrassing.
It wouldn't.
She came on
and she had obviously been prepared
by Feeney or whoever.
If a stranger
or somebody just out of the blue
starts telling you sexual fantasies,
you wouldn't encourage somebody
to do that, would you?
They weren't strangers,
first of all. And...
I know Mr. Johnson.
We're not strangers,
but are you suggesting that,
because Mr. Johnson and I know each other,
or Judge Schnelz and I,
or Mr. Feeney and I know each other...
Leave Judge Schnelz out of this.
All right?
And...
And keep Mr. Feeney out
of your sexual fantasies too.
Fieger was tenacious.
Jones didn't buckle.
She was a challenge for Fieger.
I remember getting a feeling
of who she was,
and if I went certain ways,
how she would go.
I think she's giving
as good as she gets so far.
She's impressing me, actually.
And then, I... I just create.
I just create my picture.
- Good morning, Miss Jones.
- Good morning.
- How are you?
- Fine, thanks.
Good.
Do you know that you're smiling?
I believe I'm smiling, yes. So are you.
You're not nervous, though, are you?
I'm not comfortable.
Right. And you smile
when you're not comfortable, don't you?
- Sometimes.
- That's what Jonathan Schmitz did,
isn't it?
That was sort of a gotcha
on Fieger's part, right?
It was a big touché
on Fieger's part...
You use those people
as a form of entertainment.
Isn't that true?
- That's not quite the way I see it.
- Oh, I see.
Once you get her out of the box,
she... she was...
she was a helpless child.
You're the one who told Scott
to express the fantasy on the air,
aren't you?
If I don't talk to the guests...
Please answer my question.
Now, we're not gonna get along...
And she was helpless with Geoffrey Fieger,
which is not a good way to be.
And so, I could have my way with her.
I ask every question on the air.
It's what I do.
No, you answer my question.
You're the person who asked Scott
to express the fantasy on the air,
aren't you?
- Of course I am.
- Okay, show me the document
in which Jonathan Schmitz
gave you permission
to bring him on a national television show
and have another man describe
a lurid sexual fantasy about him.
We don't... We didn't ask for permission
for that.
I know.
No more laughter.
The jury was very stone-faced
as Geoffrey Fieger started hitting her
with some tough questions.
Fieger put the heat
on Jones immediately.
You wanted a reaction.
Didn't you?
Well, we want a reaction
through the entire show.
Yes or no?
You wanted a reaction
from Jonathan Schmitz
so that the audience could be entertained
by his emotions,
whatever they were.
- Didn't you? Yes or no.
- No, not necessarily.
You didn't know
what his emotions would be.
You didn't know if he'd be happy, right?
- Right?
- Right.
Fieger was winning in terms
of making Jenny Jones look bad.
You didn't know
if he'd be hurt inside,
- did you?
- No.
They didn't prepare her for Fieger.
There's no way to prepare
for Geoffrey Fieger.
So you used him
as a source of entertainment,
having no idea what his emotions would be,
for other people, didn't you?
No, that's not the way I see it.
I don't use people on the show.
They should never
have gone forward to trial.
Maybe Feeney talked them into it.
I don't know.
But, uh, they should never have
gone to trial on that case.
It gave me an opportunity.
If I was them, I would have said,
"No, I'm shutting this down.
Can't let Fieger do this to us."
This is a case,
ladies and gentlemen, about exploitation
and about, ultimately, responsibility.
Because this is a tragedy,
Mr. Fieger,
on behalf of the Amedure family,
is appealing to the nicest part of you.
Warner Brothers complains
that there was nothing
they could have done.
The statements of lawyers
are not evidence.
How many lives
do they have to ruin?
The questions of lawyers are not evidence.
Who's next, Mr. Feeney?
Where does it stop?
Was it a natural and probable result?
Here you have to look at the evidence,
ladies and gentlemen.
If you embarrass him
and you humiliate him,
you can produce violence.
Is that something
that normally pops into our head?
"Gee, I'm embarrassed.
I think I'll go kill somebody"?
This is negligence, ladies and gentlemen.
This is the definition of negligence.
The reason that you can
find the show liable
is because they did something wrong,
and they did cause the death.
Negligence is the failure
to use ordinary care.
You have an opportunity
to render real justice.
It is reasonable for you
to come back with a conclusion
that the show was not negligent.
You see, because it's very difficult
in any other place except in America
that that little man and that woman
can stand up in a courtroom
equal to Warner Brothers
and say, "We got justice."
You do justice.
Thank you all.
Was the defendant negligent
in one or more of the ways
claimed by the plaintiff?
- How do you answer?
- Yes.
Question number two.
Was the defendant's negligence
a proximate cause of injuries
or damage to the plaintiff?
How do you answer? Yes or no?
Yes.
The judgment
was nearly unanimous.
Eight out of nine jurors
ruled in favor of damages...
and awarded
the Amedure family $25 million.
They are proud to be the David
to a media Goliath.
Scott's here today shining over us.
He was here through the whole trial.
I guess I'm pretty proud
that we were able to...
Uh...
We did what we came for.
To teach them guys you can't do that.
Maybe we'll do something
about these shows now that are happening,
and there won't be
no more killings, like...
Mr. Amedure?
Excuse me. Excuse me.
Like I lost my son.
Warner Brothers was supportive.
I mean, they knew
that this was a possible outcome.
This has a profoundly chilling effect
not only on talk shows,
but on all the media.
And they were totally committed
to, uh, getting justice,
just like the Amedure family.
That is unprecedented
and will be absolutely overturned
by the Michigan Court of Appeals.
Not only is it not unprecedented,
it's... it's contained
within the restatement of torts.
Gentlemen, let me jump in.
As we've seen, I think the case is over,
but the debate continues
with Geoffrey Fieger, Jim Feeney.
Gentlemen, thanks for joining us
this morning. I appreciate the time.
Juries love to stick it
to big corporations behaving badly,
and there are a lot of things that, uh...
that are ethically, morally very bad,
uh, but are still legal
because it would be even worse
if you tried to make them illegal.
The case should have been
dismissed before there was a trial.
There was no legal obligation
on the part of the show's producers
to influence the outcome
of what Jonathan Schmitz did
to Scott Amedure on March 9th.
Journalists every day set up sources
knowing that they're going to betray them,
in a certain way,
for the public interest,
to get important material
out to the public.
And...
Trash TV may make you cringe,
but it would make you cringe a lot more
if you lost the First Amendment
in getting rid of trash TV.
Remember, the Supreme Court
of the United States
gave the Dred Scott decision,
which upheld slavery,
so that doesn't make it right.
So we're gonna compare the Jenny Jones
verdict to the Dred Scott case.
- I'm not diverting.
- Come on, Geoffrey.
That was pretty satisfying, uh...
and pretty satisfying to have, uh, a 30...
what was then, I think,
about $33 million with interest...
uh, maybe 35.
It could have been 35, taken away.
Not one person can name
any of those jurists who took it away,
and the minute they died,
nobody remembered that they ever lived
on the face of the earth.
And people still remember Scott Amedure.
And I think that I would rather have that
than all the money in the world.
See, there's no winning in this.
Everybody's lost.
The Amedures, they've lost a son,
and the Schmitzes,
for all intents and purposes,
have lost a son for a number of years,
although he'll be back, yes.
But this was like an octopus,
this whole case.
The tentacles reached out,
and everybody it touched, it harmed.
And nobody's going to win.
Nobody's ever going to win.
When a trial becomes a story,
you are buying into the notion
that there's closure.
And the problem is that in real life,
there's never closure.
The answers are not clear.
And when the answers aren't clear,
you keep asking the question
over and over.
I know that in the months and years
after this tragedy,
Jenny Jones was never
the least bit apologetic.
The one thing that I sort of
come away with after all this
is I really am just very cynical
about the press.
Any regrets, Jon?
You know, this was a rush to judgment.
It was unfair reporting
for the sake of a sensational story.
This was a story that had legs.
We were getting great readership.
But I always had this kind of uneasy feel
about what we were doing
because in our coverage,
we were exploiting people
who'd been exploiting people.
And, you know,
did we harm the people involved?
Maybe.
I-I'm still uneasy about...
about the coverage.
I came to a point
where I wouldn't do
any more interviews anymore,
and I didn't care to deal with anybody
in the media.
That would probably be one of the things
if I ever was gonna question again
might be,
could we have done
all that stuff differently?
Did we have to fall
into the trap of the media?
The trial by media.
Did we really need
to go on all them television shows?
Could we have just all remained silent
and went through this whole trial?
And would that have maybe been better?
I don't know.
It did set a... a tone in my life
that was like being in a dream
or in a movie.
Some of it put me in awe,
and some of it got me angry,
and some of it got me sad,
and some of it made me proud,
and the movie just kept going and going.
I actually had to pay some company
to come and get his trailer.
It was all messed up from the...
gun thing, so nobody would ever want it.
So it went to a junkyard.
I just wish that he'd be understood
for who he is
and not some gay person that confessed
his crush to somebody on TV
as if he was a criminal or something.
He didn't want to hurt nobody.
I think if he would have known
that Schmitz felt the way he did,
that he wouldn't have done it.
I think that he just wanted to be on TV.
What do you think
he would be doing today?
He might be working with you guys.
He would have loved that kind...
This kind of stuff. This is his thing.
Yeah, he'd have loved this stuff.
My guests today are romantically involved
with their own cousins.
Hey, how does it feel
to be free?
- Off. Get away from us.
- How's it feel to be free?
You.
Do you have anything to say
to Scott's family?
- Huh?
- You need a real job, mister.
Is your teen
dressing or acting too sexy?
We're gonna tell you what's fake
and real on these women.
We're gonna start with Rachel.
she told us about you.
Ay-yay-yay.
I have something to tell you.
Um, I've been having an affair
for the past five months.
I get sick and tired
of seeing Uncle Tom here
sucking up, trying to be a white...
Only slightly the worse for the wear.
- Today is a shocking true story...
- Gonna be a good show...
- Are you in fact sleeping with Leo?
- Yes, I am.
Is this a wig?
If you call her all these names,
why did you marry her?
'Cause I needed a place to live.
- Are you sexually active?
- Mm-hmm.
Okay, Mom, there's your answer.
You didn't ask, but I did.
She's very much a slut.
Several talk shows
have been under fire...
These shows are no longer places where
intelligent information is exchanged.
- Jerry!
- I think our show is addictive.
I'm really a man.
Oh!
The most vulnerable are being exploited
and manipulated.
These people are not
sophisticated enough...
That's elitist, isn't it?
What do you mean, they're not
sophisticated? This is America.
It's fun. The adrenaline.
It's, like, you know, it's so awesome.
People have gotten so confused
between shame and fame.
You'll find The Jenny Jones Show
to be probably
the most fun talk show on the air.
These guys are
way over the line.
Probably 80 percent of our shows
are either makeovers
or reunions or secret crush.
Talk shows are killing the nation.
This is not wrestling! It's a talk show!
It's like saying
that refrigerator in the kitchen
is what's making me fat.
Well, hello. It's not.
- There are no boundaries anymore.
- Reality is reflecting Hollywood.
The former producer says
the competitive talk show market
could be creating a dangerous environment.
Hopefully, we've hit the bottom.
I mean, how much worse can it get?
- I think I just shot a man.
- Okay.
- I'm just turning myself in.
- Okay.
I just shot this guy!
Okay, why did you do that?
Because he played
a very bad fucking thing on me.
He took me on Jenny Jones.
Let's have Jon come out here
and see who has the crush on him.
Guess what?
It's Scott that has the crush on you.
You lied to me.
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
Um, no. No.
No, I did not.
A few days after the taping,
Jonathan Schmitz showed up
at Scott Amedure's mobile home.
Killed by two blasts
from a shotgun...
Shot him twice in the chest.
Amedure died on the floor of his home.
Any... Any regrets, Jon?
On my brother's
25th anniversary of his death,
we had a cat have a heart embolism.
And there really wasn't anything
that we could do about it.
And then we got lucky and found this one.
And she's got, like, a little goatee.
Aw, she's a little sweetheart.
My name's Frank Amedure,
and my brother Scott Amedure
was murdered
after he was on The Jenny Jones Show
back in 1995.
Now, there's me.
I'm the oldest.
W...
Wayne.
Mike.
And that was Scott.
So Scott was still in diapers
in that picture.
Scott always wanted to be on TV, in the...
the limelight.
This is him with a girl
that played on One Day At a Time.
I think her name's Julie Cooper.
Here's some Army picture.
I found out that he was gay
when he was still in the service.
And, uh, it was never really a big deal.
Surprisingly, even my dad
didn't have any issues with it.
And here's Scott showing off his muscles.
As you know, he was a soldier.
He wasn't, like, a wimpy guy.
If, um, Jonathan Schmitz would have
came after him without a gun,
and with a knife or...
something,
or just a physical confrontation,
Scott would have whupped his ass
all over the place.
Any... And regrets, Jon?
Jonathan Schmitz
was 24 years old.
He worked at, uh, a local restaurant
no longer in existence
called the Fox & Hounds across the street.
Jonathan and Scott met
through Donna Riley.
Donna lived
in an apartment complex
where Jonathan lived
and where Scott Amedure's brother lived.
Scott came over one day
to see his brother,
and Jonathan was fixing Donna Riley's car,
her brakes, at the time,
out in the parking lot of this building.
Scott was quite the handyman.
He was kind of a homemade electrician.
He knew how to do stuff like that.
That's how they met.
Do you have a secret crush
you'd like to reveal to a same-sex friend?
Call 312-836-9455.
Scott was a big fan
of The Jenny Jones Show.
It was known from friends of his
that he watched the show
on a regular basis.
I think that Scott Amedure
genuinely liked Jonathan,
and I think that he thought
this would be a way
to kind of move this thing along.
That's how it got started.
And then the television show
contacted Jonathan.
They said, "You've been identified
by someone"
who has a secret crush on you.
It could be a man.
"It could be a woman."
Um...
And he would have to come on the show
to find out who the individual was.
Jonathan Schmitz
had a very gentle soul.
I mean, he was a real nice,
sweet, decent guy
who was manipulated, used, pushed around,
tormented, and triggered
into doing something terrible.
So many of the murder cases
that I cover are cut-and-dried.
There was none of that here.
There were so many issues
that I grappled with,
and to this day,
I still haven't resolved in my mind.
It was the news media
that greeted Jon Schmitz...
Jonathan Schmitz faces
a first-degree murder charge...
Schmitz's parents sobbed
when they heard details of the crime.
It was a difficult trial, even though,
frankly, as a prosecutor,
I've never seen a clearer case
of first-degree premeditated murder.
Last one? Three...
have requested a...
This was a big deal
because nobody had committed murder
as a result of being on a trash talk show.
The methods of the show
were outrageous and immoral,
but I think Jonathan Schmitz
still committed murder one,
and he should pay for that crime.
Are you responsible yourself,
or is the person who put you
into that situation responsible?
You cannot kill
another human being
for words spoken by that human being.
Embarrassment is not an excuse for murder.
In everyday life,
a lot of people will be embarrassed,
but the law is intended to protect people
from criminal acts,
not to give people a pass...
For murdering somebody
because they have some characteristic
that you don't like about them.
All right. He appears
to have pulled the gloves on, counsel.
In the 1990s, Hollywood figured out
that the best soap opera is real life.
This is not an arrangement
or an understanding.
This is a marriage.
You know, I'm not sitting here
as some little woman
standing by my man
like Tammy Wynette.
Previously private things
were coming out in the news,
as well as, uh, in entertainment.
You want to inform.
- You also have to entertain.
- Yes.
You have to draw an audience.
- Right. Well...
- Every day you have to make this decision.
They won't watch male strippers
five days a week.
They watch them from time to time.
Certainly, and you'd better
haul 'em out once in a while
if you wanna survive in the daytime arena.
Every television show
deals with ratings,
and, uh, if you don't compete well,
you're not gonna be there.
Jenny Jones
has something different for your daytime.
Boy, do I have a show for you.
Here's a program
you can relate to.
This is gonna be a good show
'cause today we're gonna talk
about women and stress.
Jenny Jones started out
wanting to be Oprah Winfrey.
Has anybody made this at home?
Done potpourris?
You want color. You want texture.
You want smell.
But she quickly discovered
that her show was more popular
as Jerry Springer.
How do you know
this isn't your baby then?
I just... uh...
You lied to me. You're a dog.
You're a snake. You're conniving.
You're a slut.
Jenny Jones, Sally Jessy Raphael,
Ricki Lake, Jerry Springer,
Maury Povich, Montel Williams,
they all had the same type of formats,
and the term "ambush television"
referred to television episodes
that were kept secret
from the participants.
These shows function
on emotional drama and catharsis.
Today we're reuniting couples
who have had one-night stands.
Come on out, Garrett.
So you have to get people
who can be manipulated
into a situation
where that's what they give out.
Two months after the night
we slept together,
I found out I was pregnant.
- Do you see a resemblance?
- Yes.
It's easy to forget
that these are real people
with real secrets that are being exposed.
- What does it feel like? Is it...
- Scary. I mean, I don't know.
You know, what kind of entertainment
is that? But you know what that is.
That's just, like, the rubberneck effect,
you know,
where people are driving down the highway
and there's a real bad accident,
everybody wants to look and see blood.
Sort of
a schadenfreude thing, too,
you know,
watching other people's troubles.
"Eh, our life isn't so bad
when I see these idiots on television."
Kinda makes you feel normal
after you watch that.
People watch. People want
that kind of sensationalism,
that kind of voyeurism.
I don't think Jenny Jones started out
trying to lower the common denominator
of life on television.
I slept with my mother's best friend.
And you won't believe
what else you'll hear.
She just discovered
that's the way you're a success.
Now, which of these ways would you choose
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
A, would you write that person a letter?
B, would you tell the person in private
in case he rejects you?
Or C, would you tell that person
that you're gay
and you hope he is on national television
in front of millions of people?
He knows you're gay, right?
- Yeah.
- Do you know that he is?
- No.
- Anything's possible.
You hope. You hope. Do you have any reason
to think he is, Donna? I mean...
Um, not really. He, um...
He said that his family
kinda question him on it.
What is it that's so exciting
about him to you?
Um, he's got a cute little hard body.
Um, you know, one you just wanna pick up
and put in your curio cabinet,
you know, dust him off once in a while.
- He's cute.
- You wanna physically pick him up?
Oh, he's just a tiny little cute thing.
He's gorgeous.
Well, all right.
Let's see if he really is.
Get the headphones off of Jon,
and let's have Jon come out here
and see who has the crush on him.
Here's Jon.
Hi, Jon.
- Did you think Donna had the crush on you?
- Did I? No, we're good friends.
Guess what?
It's Scott that has the crush on you.
You lied to me.
Interesting.
Uh, before we chat, take a look at...
We'll show a little playback
of what Scott said about you, Jon.
Take a look at that monitor there.
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard,
and I just...
Yeah, I thought about tying him up
to my hammock.
Um...
And?
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
Oh, my God!
Oh...
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
Um, no, no.
No, I did not.
Can you tell us what your status is?
Are you involved with anybody, or...
Um, no.
But I am, uh, definitely heterosexual,
I guess you could say.
It was pretty clear
that he was emotionally, um, distraught.
- Jon, how you doing? Okay?
- I'm doing good.
What stuck out was the way
Jenny Jones was priming the audience...
Would you tell that person that you're gay
and you hope he is on national television
in front of millions?
Telling them the titillating situation
that was about to occur.
Here's Jon.
When he first walked out on the stage...
It's not clear whether he thinks
the secret admirer is Donna or Scott.
I actually thought Jonathan came out
and was very good-natured.
And then there's an awkward embrace.
An awkward embrace.
You can't really tell
who's reacting to who.
Then the bomb
was dropped on him.
Guess what?
Scott has the crush on you.
You lied to me.
Interesting.
He had, you know,
that frozen smile on his face.
He's smiling in an excessive sort of way.
He's clearly uncomfortable.
Take a look at that monitor.
Um, I got a pretty big hammock in my yard,
and I just...
Yeah, I thought about
tying him up to my hammock.
She knew what she was doing.
And she asked snappy questions.
And?
She earned her money.
Well, it entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
I mean, if she had been
an honest and decent person,
she would have said...
"Stop the cameras."
You know, "Let's... Let's stop right here."
He puts his hands up over his face.
Did you have any idea
that he liked you this much?
Um, no, no. No, I did not.
Jonathan is kind of sitting there
with either no expression on his face,
or a grin, or a chuckle, or a smile.
Pretty quickly, Jonathan said,
"I'm a hundred percent heterosexual."
I guess you could say.
He determined in that moment
it was important for the audience
to understand
that he wasn't gay.
He seemed a little uncomfortable,
but nothing over the top.
I don't think anybody saw what was coming,
but you could see
that he was not comfortable
with what was going on there.
- Are you very disappointed?
- No, actually. No, no.
- You know, the thing is...
- It's a nice compliment.
If nothing else, it's a nice compliment
to pay somebody. We'll take a break...
No one threatens anybody.
There's no physical confrontation.
Nobody accuses anybody.
It's pretty normal stuff.
Afterwards, Donna, Jonathan,
and Scott were hanging out together.
So there was no overt signs
that Jonathan was troubled
to the point that he would do
something dramatic.
Did the defendant voice
any displeasure about being on the show?
- No.
- Did he voice any anger
towards Scott Amedure?
No.
And then Scott apparently left a...
provocative sexual note
where Jonathan would find it.
That was the third day after the show.
Scott left a suggestive note
on Jonathan's doorway,
along with one
of those flashing construction lights.
I believe the note said something
to the effect of,
"You have the tool to turn this off."
He just indicated he became angry,
and, uh, at that point, he indicated
he just made a decision to kill Amedure.
So Jonathan went to the bank.
He then went
and purchased ammunition.
He then went and bought a gun.
He was very cool, calm, and collected.
Was he rude to you?
Oh, not... not in the least, no. Very...
Very polite young man.
And then he drove
to Scott's mobile home in Orion Township.
Knocked on the door.
There was some sort of discussion.
At that point, he told Scott
he had to go out and shut his car off.
He exited the residence
and retrieved the shotgun.
There was a man in the house
who testified.
Scott stood back from the door
and said,
"Gary, help. He's got a gun."
He used the shotgun in a sweeping motion
to knock the door back open.
At that point, uh,
Amedure grabbed a wicker chair,
pulled it up in front of him,
and was kind of backing away
from the door.
And at that point, the gun went off.
There was a shot.
When he described what happened,
the smoke coming from his body
and the wheezing and things,
um...
it had to be an awful thing
for him to, uh...
be there.
And then wait for the ambulance
and all that.
This is us in Ohio,
before we moved to Pittsburgh.
So, I went over to the house.
I was real high on adrenaline.
My heart was racing the whole time.
And, uh, you know, I had the radio on.
I guess it was like I needed to get there
and find out
if what I was hearing was true.
And I walked up,
and these detectives came up to me.
They told me that I'd better get a lawyer.
That it was gonna be a media circus.
And that's when everything became,
like, unreal.
Thirty-two-year-old
Scott Amedure is dead...
Amedure died Thursday,
killed by two blasts from a shotgun.
I don't know what happened.
I have no idea. I'm just in shock.
It had to do with the Jenny...
Jenny Jones taping.
I don't think they've showed it yet.
'Cause we were waiting
to see it ourselves.
And that one scene where
they're taking my brother out on the...
in the body bag,
um, I was standing there.
Nothing has ever been the same
ever since that.
Later, Jonathan Schmitz
shot and killed...
The suspect turned
his weapon and himself over to police.
A few days after the taping,
back in Michigan,
a chagrined Schmitz showed up
at Amedure's mobile home.
Investigators have
a confession and eyewitness.
Schmitz then called 911
and confessed.
Now he's on trial for first-degree murder.
In the 1990s,
people started looking at a courtroom
as a kind of television set.
How much interest
has this particular case generated?
A lot of interest.
It's not just people involved
in the case who can experience it.
You never know what to expect
from Court TV's
live daytime trial coverage.
It's everybody
around the country,
and so it becomes fodder
for entertainment.
Court TV took what was already a big story
and blew it up.
Gavel-to-gavel coverage
is what they boasted about.
Every witness, every motion,
every everything.
This was sensational
in so many ways, and not good ways.
And because of the celebrity,
because of the brutality of this murder,
this was hitting all of those buttons.
It was sensational enough that they knew
if they parked their camera at that court,
they were gonna have a pretty good feed
every single day.
After Jonathan killed Scott,
he went to a pay telephone.
He called 911.
He indicated that he had just shot Scott
because he had been embarrassed
on national TV.
- I think I just shot a man.
- Okay.
I'm just turning myself in.
Okay.
Can you tell me what happened?
I just walked in
and fucking killed him.
I just want you to try to relax.
Can you take a deep breath for me?
I know you're upset, okay?
We're gonna help you, though.
- He's fairly hysterical here?
- Yes.
After the shooting,
he got in his car and he drove
to a gas station, called the police.
I mean, does that sound like a guy
who's out there
looking to... to murder somebody?
Is he anxious to murder somebody?
No. He just...
It happened, and he called
because that's the kind of guy he is.
"I did something wrong.
Now I gotta pay for it.
I have to confess. I have to give it up."
Ladies and gentlemen,
there was no murder here.
There was a shooting,
but there was no murder.
That was a case
of what his motivations were
and whether he was doing
what he was doing on purpose.
He was bipolar.
He had a syndrome of affective disorder,
and he has depression reoccurring.
He said he has made attempts of suicide.
Jonathan had taken a whole bottle
of my heart medicine.
This was a young man
who had a lot of baggage.
And he stated
that his father was an abusive father.
I found out that Jon had been, uh,
skipping class.
And, uh...
I... I punished him.
I took off my belt, and I pulled his hair
and strapped him on the, uh, butt
as I took him into class.
- In front of the class?
- Yes.
He had very serious Graves' disease,
which also causes misfires in the brain.
When I saw him, it was quite advanced.
He was very severely thyrotoxic.
Most people who have hyperthyroidism
can continue on without killing somebody.
Is that correct?
Correct.
I had Graves' disease myself
and, uh, I had some depression.
But depression doesn't make people go out
and kill people,
so I think that's just, uh,
reaching for straws there.
And then, after the show,
Jon was completely humiliated
and... and revealed his humiliation.
Not in so many words,
but only an idiot wouldn't see
how humiliated he was.
No.
It shouldn't be humiliating.
Imagine if every time
a woman is hit on in a bar,
she can just fly into a rage
and kill that person.
When Scott attempted to hug him,
he felt literally trapped...
Instead of saying,
"Jeez, I'm sorry, kid," you know.
"We were just having a little fun.
It went too far.
Didn't mean to embarrass you..."
No.
He took the other route.
Push, push, push.
Leave these little notes.
He kept pushing him further and further,
this guy with a very delicate
psychiatric situation.
If he knew the word "fragile,"
he would tell him, "I'm really fragile."
That's what he was trying to tell him.
And Amedure basically told him,
"I'll do anything that I wanna do
with you or anybody else,
so fuck off."
Can I say that on Netflix?
"So, fuck off."
That's when he went out into the car,
pulled out the gun, loaded it up,
walked to the front door again,
holding it like this. Not pointed at him.
Is there a significance
to the fact
that Jon did not come back with the gun
charging in the house, shooting?
It's a non-predatory stance.
Yes, it's true that I saw the defendant
standing on the stoop
with a gun in his hands.
Now what else
do you need to know here, sir?
Instead of saying,
"Jeez, Jon. I'm sorry, ah..."
he picks up a chair.
And the next thing you saw
was Scott picking up a chair. Correct?
I'm not sure of the sequence.
And he says, "Get the fuck out of here."
And he starts to throw it.
You gotta be careful with Burdick.
I remember...
I remember there was a wicker chair.
That was the moment
that Jon's mind totally snapped.
That's when Jonathan turns the gun on him
and shoots him.
I mean, if anybody was asking
to get killed that day...
I guess when I walked out
of the courtroom,
it wasn't so much that I was angry.
I, uh...
I felt that I just wanted everybody
to know that,
uh, you know, this is a bunch of bull.
They've thrown
a number of defenses at you.
The shotgun approach.
Maybe it was self-defense.
Maybe it was a flashback to childhood.
We have to separate this case.
Certainly not first-degree.
It's not second-degree murder
because there was no ability
to form an intent,
unless you believe that Jon wasn't
suffering from any mental disorder.
And there was no ability
to form enough of an intent
for the prosecution
to be able to prove to you,
beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter.
If the jury decides
he is not guilty of first-degree murder,
then they have to decide
on several other options.
I don't know how
I convinced him. I got the judge to use
lesser included offenses of second-degree,
voluntary manslaughter,
involuntary manslaughter.
And then I got him to agree
to discharge of a weapon
in the city limits,
injury or death resulting,
which is a two-year misdemeanor.
They deliberated
over a few days.
And then, of course,
the judge is very concerned
about they're gonna be influenced
by this massive media presence.
Our verdict, um,
as to the charge
of first-degree premeditated murder
is guilty of the lesser offense
of second-degree murder.
That could have clearly been
a first-degree murder conviction.
And I think that's testament
to how good his defense attorneys were.
Jonathan's reaction after the verdict
was like Jonathan's reaction
on The Jenny Jones Show.
His face was a mask.
You could not tell
what Jon's real reaction was.
You will not be able to tell...
The jury and the media
was sorry for Schmitz,
and so he got off with murder two.
Do you... Did you like Jonathan?
Absolutely. I told my husband
right after the trial started
that I wouldn't even mind
having a son like that.
I think he's a wonderful person,
and it's just...
uh, it's an unhappy set of circumstances.
The final episode Wednesday
of the so-called talk show murder trial.
It was sentencing day
for convicted killer Jonathan Schmitz.
A minimum of 25 years
in state prison,
maximum not more than 50 years.
I can tell you that, uh,
the reaction was not just heartbreak.
I think it was probably
more like shattered.
I've even talked to his dad,
and we were all there together, you know?
And somehow we all kind of felt
like we all got screwed.
You know, we all...
We... We shouldn't even be here.
Jonathan was a good boy.
Jonathan never did anything
in his whole life.
He really is a good kid,
and I just feel so badly
that he has to be
the sacrificial lamb, you know,
for a dumb talk show.
You know, Jonathan was a victim
in this thing.
I'm not saying that he was right,
but I'm saying that he lost too.
Well, he was, in a way.
You know, he shouldn't have been put
in that position to begin with.
So he was a victim too.
Yeah, he was a victim too.
So, you know, I don't argue that.
I want to set the record straight.
First, as much as we all regret
what happened,
the fact is that this tragedy
is about the actions of one individual.
I gotta say
that I blame the producers...
probably just about as much
because it was their job
to go out and find people
that they could, uh, exploit.
Um, that's what they do for a living.
Exploit people.
While the murder trial comes to a close,
the civil suit in this matter
hasn't even gotten underway.
Amedure's family
is suing the show.
I do believe that
this would not have happened
if it were not for The Jenny Jones Show.
The Jenny Jones Show
that was responsible
for literally almost everything
that happened here
because the show was the catalyst.
What was astonishing to me
is that the coverage continued.
There was still a huge amount
of interest in it.
Beth, how significant is
the media presence at the trial?
Well, it is growing.
The Jenny Jones Show
is charged with negligence,
gross negligence, and willful...
suing the show, Telepictures,
and Warner Brothers for $50 million.
It was just a story that didn't seem
like it was ever gonna end.
Is the talk show industry
watching this case
with any concern or interest?
I think they're very concerned.
If you can be found liable,
it's gonna change everything.
Jenny, you are responsible
for what happened,
and you should take responsibility
for that.
And I fully believe that Geoffrey Fieger
is going to make you understand
your culpability in all of this.
Only one has stood up
and taken on big business
and the government,
and only one is one of the most famous
trial lawyers in America.
There is only one Geoffrey Fieger.
We needed a different kind of lawyer,
and then that's when I called Fieger.
And he, of course, answered the phone,
and he said, "I was wondering
when you were gonna call me."
Did you meet Mr. Fieger?
They were very smart
in calling me.
I knew what to do.
Every case that I have is about a story.
I take every case, and I paint a picture.
Now, the law is quite formulated,
and you have to follow specific rules.
But that's not so unlike technique
of painters
or other artists.
They work with the medium.
And so the medium of the law, I learned.
And my art is the art of telling stories.
Fieger is...
and I say this in the kindest way,
a press animal.
Geoffrey Fieger is a showboat.
Jenny Jones Show better be ready
for this.
He made his name representing
Jack Kevorkian for many years.
Dr. Kevorkian was charged
with first-degree murder
and with assisting in a suicide.
He was a drama major in college.
In the courtroom,
who's gonna stand up for you?
He likes his stardom
here in metro Detroit.
You see billboards and ads on television.
Now it's Fieger Time.
If you trick and lie and deceive
and commit fraud,
like The Jenny Jones Show producers did
with Jonathan Schmitz...
He takes on really high-profile cases,
sometimes those
that I think he knows he's going to lose
but that keeps his name in the paper.
I don't think
I need any more notoriety here.
I was the Democratic nominee for governor.
He's a good man,
and, uh, I think he cares.
Okay. But he comes off very gruff.
They gotta stop.
Who's talking outside?
You've got to get them away.
And arrogant.
Are they discussing settlement?
No, they're not, and it surprises me.
Hm. Opinionated.
Some people might not like
uppity white lawyers. Tough luck.
And you gotta kinda go with it.
The Jenny Jones Show trial
where I put 'em on trial
is about to happen.
He, you know, was a publicity hound.
And I say that in a, you know,
in a respectful way.
If any of you...
should...
be able at any...
particular time...
on any particular day to...
observe the... the entrance
into the Ottawa Cemetery...
Ultimately, if you're going to be
successful in front of a jury,
you've got to make the story compelling
to a human being.
You might observe...
an elderly man...
First of all, Fieger's opening
was two and a half hours long.
You might see them...
on a bright day or on a cloudy day.
You might see them on a windy day
or a snow-filled day.
You might see them on a weekend...
There was a lot of repetition.
There was a lot of redundancy.
And written on that plaque...
is the name...
Scott Amedure.
I have never listened
to a two and a half hour
opening statement,
either before or since.
I'm not gonna try to talk to you
for two and a half hours.
Uh, I don't know if I could stand here
for two and a half hours.
Um... But I am gonna do this.
I am going to talk to you
about what this case is all about,
and I'm gonna talk to you about justice.
Justice in this case
would involve Jonathan Schmitz sitting
in this courtroom.
That would be justice.
Excuse me.
See, it took 60 seconds.
Thank you.
This trial was just an absolute circus.
Bedlam.
You make up just about
everything you say. Isn't that true?
Excuse me. He's badgering.
Don't do that.
Fieger is a very combative,
argumentative cross-examiner.
I'll make it real simple for you.
I know it's difficult for you
to answer some questions.
You're an expert in embarrassment
or humiliation
for the entertainment of other people,
- aren't you?
- No.
I always tell my story
in cross-examination.
Your purpose in doing this show
was to sensationalize, embarrass,
humiliate with regard to sex.
Isn't that true?
That's completely untrue.
And that's all you focused on...
It's more important my questions
than the answers.
You could object to almost every question
Fieger asked if you wanted to.
Objection, Your Honor.
- Where is he coming up with this?
- Excuse me.
And that's tough.
If my question ends up
sounding like a statement,
believe me,
it has a little question mark after it.
I respected him.
Uh, he's a...
You know, he's a difficult advocate
to deal with.
Why would you tell him
it was a man or a woman?
Because he knew
it was a secret crush show,
and I wanted him to know
that it could have been a man or a woman.
Excuse me.
It couldn't have been a woman
since you knew it was a man.
I remember Fieger hammering
on the producers.
You told them
not to tell Jonathan Schmitz
that it was them, didn't you?
We told all the guests on that show
not to say who it was.
So you told them to lie
to Jonathan Schmitz, didn't you?
- Scott has the crush on you.
- You lied to me.
They called about a secret crush show.
It's a secret.
If you wanna understand
what really happened,
everything was done
for the purpose of ratings.
And ratings are money.
And that's really what happened
in the show.
Somebody lost their life for money.
Ridiculous.
Shouldn't they have to pay for that?
Have you developed
an understanding of how people react
to being deceived, embarrassed,
or humiliated on your show?
No, because we don't deceive, embarrass,
or humiliate people on our show.
That may be a tough sell
in front of these jurors.
Gonna be a long day,
tough day, gentlemen, or what?
- It's gonna be a long day.
- A long day?
I knew
that it could easily be argued
that there was a superficial connection
that could have appeal to jurors.
The bottom line here is this:
The show acted
in a perfectly reasonable manner.
I also knew that there was no way
the producers of this television show
owed any kind of a legally cognizable duty
to Scott Amedure
to protect him against criminal activity
by a third party,
be it Jonathan Schmitz or anyone else.
You're flying 'em in.
If you're paying the money
and you're going to make the profits
from your trash TV and your ambush TV,
you damn well...
Legally, to me,
there was no question
that the case ultimately would be decided
in favor of the show,
but that may not happen
until after a trial we lost.
And my responsibility was to establish
a clear difference
between what happened with the show
and what ultimately Jonathan Schmitz did
four days later.
Did you have any reason
to suspect when they left the studio
that Jon Schmitz posed any risk
of violence or physical injury to anyone?
No. He said
he had a great time on the show.
After the show,
there are several kind of critical points.
When they leave the show,
they decide to all fly home together.
As you were leaving the airport,
someone picked up a broken yellow light.
Tell us about that.
Um, it was just laying out
in the middle of the parking lot,
and, um, they were joking back and forth.
And Jon had his old car,
and one of the blinkers didn't work,
so Scott had picked it up
and was teasing with him
and said that
that could be his new blinker for the car.
And then they spent several hours
drinking together.
He called me in Brewski's bar,
and he said, uh,
"That thing didn't work out very well
in Chicago for me, Dad."
He said, uh...
He said, uh, "It was a guy."
Then they go back
to Donna Riley's apartment,
where the party continues.
He told me that they, he and Jon,
had slow danced and kissed.
Excuse me.
How does he come here now
for the first time
without disclosing it?
He wanted to find some reason,
other than the show
and what had happened there,
that Jonathan Schmitz
would've killed Scott.
It was absolutely the result
of his reaction
to this ongoing relationship.
They went out after the show,
but by the time they, uh...
the night was over,
that they had an affair.
In fact, nothing had happened. Nothing.
It is explosive
because it could absolve the defendant,
uh, from any liability.
He told me that they had slept together.
He wanted me to meet him.
- Did it happen?
- No, it didn't happen.
Jon told me before that his family have
confronted him, asked him if he was gay.
Do you have any reason
to think he is, Donna? I mean...
Um, not really.
He, um... He said that his family
kind of questioned him on it.
Did you ever discuss
that he was very conflicted
in his relationship with females?
Absolutely.
Because he had lots of conflicts
with lots of females.
I am, uh, definitely, uh, heterosexual,
I guess you could say.
But it had to do, again, with girls.
I want you to know that. Girls.
- Yes, sir, I know.
- Okay.
- Remember, it's girls. No guys.
- Not any guys.
- That's right.
- Absolutely not, sir.
- No guys.
- That's right. Right.
The whole bottom line was
whether he was gay or not...
it was that he didn't want nobody
to find out about it on TV.
It entails, like, whipped cream
and champagne, stuff like that.
Oh, my God!
When he finally did call you
after the show had been taped,
you made it pretty clear to him
in that phone conversation
you were angry.
And, in fact, you said gay what?
- Bastards.
- Sure that's all you said?
I... It was something.
It was an expletive of that, whatever.
In fact, what you said
began with an "F"
and ended with an "S," didn't it?
- Yes.
- And you threw a chair, didn't you?
Yes.
There's no excuses.
There's reasons
for why Jon did what he did.
Did you consider
that the note was offensive
- or in any way a cause of the murder?
- It was meant to be a joke.
It was meant to be a joke.
It was meant for a laugh,
to make Jon laugh.
Whether it was that he felt
like his family was gonna find out
that he was gay or that his family
was gonna think that he was gay...
Explain, please,
why you said that Jon had to kill Scott
to prove he was not a homosexual,
and that Jon felt
like he was being stalked.
What does it say on the line before that,
or the question? May I see the statement?
You said
that the overwhelming humiliation
that he would have felt,
that everybody thought
he was a homosexual.
Right. How would you feel
if somebody thought you were a homosexual?
And that's exactly what you communicated
to your son Jon. Right, sir?
I was embarrassed. He was embarrassed.
When you watch the testimony
by Jonathan's father,
you get a glimpse into...
the household of the Schmitz
when Jonathan was growing up.
- Thanks very much.
- Thank you for coming, Mr. Schmitz.
And I think that homophobia
is a part of a lot
of young people's childhoods
still in this country.
It just shows the extent
of how far we have to go.
He shouldn't have been humiliated
to begin with.
Well, in a perfect world, yeah.
But it's not a perfect world.
There's a lot of people
that are gonna be humiliated
if they're thought of as being homosexual.
It's not that I agree with it
or like it or, you know...
Um, it's just a fact of life.
To put a line around it
and say, "Homophobia, this is it."
I'm not sure it's "it"
any more than any one thing is it.
It's a sad story
with a lot of complicated pieces.
But it wouldn't have happened
if it wasn't for The Jenny Jones Show.
We're talking
about experimenting on people for ratings.
Seeing what they'll do
if we put 'em in a certain kind
of a situation.
And that's what they did.
They lit the fuse.
Now, which of these ways would you choose
to reveal your secret crush on someone?
A, would you write that person a letter?
B, would you tell the person in private
in case he rejects you?
Or C, would you tell that person
that you're gay and you hope he is
on national television
in front of millions?
On television, you have to turn reality
into a story.
Jenny Jones is set to take the stand
herself in Pontiac, Michigan...
Not just trash talk shows,
but journalists
recognize that you have to please people
who are expecting a story.
From a strategic point of view,
Fieger needs to get a piece
of Jenny Jones.
She's the star of the show.
I've been looking forward
to seeing her on the stand.
And when you turn a courtroom
into a studio...
Enter the family's
media-savvy attorney...
it ends up looking like a story
with good guys, bad guys,
drama.
Whenever I want her,
she'll be there.
If they ever ask it.
The media wants to use
anything they have.
They want to use
the sensationalism of the trial.
- Ready to tell your side?
- Yes, I sure am.
They wanna use Geoffrey Fieger.
Geoffrey, thanks for joining us.
What happened...
They wanna create
another media experience.
Well, I get that.
She didn't look that good
when she came in.
Didn't look like she'd had much sleep.
That's the way the media works.
It really is TV talk shows on trial here.
We resume our coverage
of The Jenny Jones...
The story becomes the story.
It should be a great trial.
They took real-life drama
and put it in front of a TV camera.
What can we expect
in your examination of her?
I liken it to Colonel Kurtz's
final words in Apocalypse Now.
"The horror.
The horror."
At one point,
I think I was told it had,
I don't know, 475,000 people or something
daily watching this thing.
I tell you what. The trials I've had,
if there are two or three people
sitting in the audience, uh, it's a lot.
So you have a situation
that was really ironic
because, I mean, Court TV is doing this
for exactly the same reason
that another set of producers
is being accused of doing it
for their own gain.
This is Crime Stories.
It was a murder that put TV on trial.
Now, that's a little different
than The Jenny Jones Show,
where they were actually trying
to trick people and hurt people, okay.
Where Court TV, I don't know
that they're trying to hurt people.
They're just trying to make a bunch
of money off of this tragic event.
It's just who was covering the story
that really bothered me.
If it was a completely other company
that was filming the court,
that's one thing, but...
it's the darn company we're suing.
Since Warner Brothers owns Court TV,
and Court TV's ratings have dramatically
shot up during this trial,
they've made a fortune on that end.
They're making money off my brother,
and we're suing you,
and yet you're over here
still making money off of him.
Jenny Jones expected to take
the witness stand sometime this afternoon.
You're not gonna want to miss it.
Stick around.
There's no human aspect
to the decisions of making money.
Okay, I call Jenny Jones to the stand.
It's just like why
they try to get somebody
to break down and cry on a talk show.
You know, even though that's gonna make
that person feel bad and awful or whatnot,
they're gonna do it anyway
because that's what sells.
There's a side of us
that are drawn to that kind of thing.
That sadistic thing in all of us.
We're gonna squeeze in a quick
commercial break. We'll be right back.
It would be embarrassing to you
to have somebody discuss with you here,
without discussing it with you
in advance,
somebody's fantasy about tying you up
to a hammock
and licking whipped cream off of you
with strawberries and champagne...
That would be embarrassing, wouldn't it?
It could be exciting.
Excuse me,
and it would also be embarrassing.
It wouldn't.
She came on
and she had obviously been prepared
by Feeney or whoever.
If a stranger
or somebody just out of the blue
starts telling you sexual fantasies,
you wouldn't encourage somebody
to do that, would you?
They weren't strangers,
first of all. And...
I know Mr. Johnson.
We're not strangers,
but are you suggesting that,
because Mr. Johnson and I know each other,
or Judge Schnelz and I,
or Mr. Feeney and I know each other...
Leave Judge Schnelz out of this.
All right?
And...
And keep Mr. Feeney out
of your sexual fantasies too.
Fieger was tenacious.
Jones didn't buckle.
She was a challenge for Fieger.
I remember getting a feeling
of who she was,
and if I went certain ways,
how she would go.
I think she's giving
as good as she gets so far.
She's impressing me, actually.
And then, I... I just create.
I just create my picture.
- Good morning, Miss Jones.
- Good morning.
- How are you?
- Fine, thanks.
Good.
Do you know that you're smiling?
I believe I'm smiling, yes. So are you.
You're not nervous, though, are you?
I'm not comfortable.
Right. And you smile
when you're not comfortable, don't you?
- Sometimes.
- That's what Jonathan Schmitz did,
isn't it?
That was sort of a gotcha
on Fieger's part, right?
It was a big touché
on Fieger's part...
You use those people
as a form of entertainment.
Isn't that true?
- That's not quite the way I see it.
- Oh, I see.
Once you get her out of the box,
she... she was...
she was a helpless child.
You're the one who told Scott
to express the fantasy on the air,
aren't you?
If I don't talk to the guests...
Please answer my question.
Now, we're not gonna get along...
And she was helpless with Geoffrey Fieger,
which is not a good way to be.
And so, I could have my way with her.
I ask every question on the air.
It's what I do.
No, you answer my question.
You're the person who asked Scott
to express the fantasy on the air,
aren't you?
- Of course I am.
- Okay, show me the document
in which Jonathan Schmitz
gave you permission
to bring him on a national television show
and have another man describe
a lurid sexual fantasy about him.
We don't... We didn't ask for permission
for that.
I know.
No more laughter.
The jury was very stone-faced
as Geoffrey Fieger started hitting her
with some tough questions.
Fieger put the heat
on Jones immediately.
You wanted a reaction.
Didn't you?
Well, we want a reaction
through the entire show.
Yes or no?
You wanted a reaction
from Jonathan Schmitz
so that the audience could be entertained
by his emotions,
whatever they were.
- Didn't you? Yes or no.
- No, not necessarily.
You didn't know
what his emotions would be.
You didn't know if he'd be happy, right?
- Right?
- Right.
Fieger was winning in terms
of making Jenny Jones look bad.
You didn't know
if he'd be hurt inside,
- did you?
- No.
They didn't prepare her for Fieger.
There's no way to prepare
for Geoffrey Fieger.
So you used him
as a source of entertainment,
having no idea what his emotions would be,
for other people, didn't you?
No, that's not the way I see it.
I don't use people on the show.
They should never
have gone forward to trial.
Maybe Feeney talked them into it.
I don't know.
But, uh, they should never have
gone to trial on that case.
It gave me an opportunity.
If I was them, I would have said,
"No, I'm shutting this down.
Can't let Fieger do this to us."
This is a case,
ladies and gentlemen, about exploitation
and about, ultimately, responsibility.
Because this is a tragedy,
Mr. Fieger,
on behalf of the Amedure family,
is appealing to the nicest part of you.
Warner Brothers complains
that there was nothing
they could have done.
The statements of lawyers
are not evidence.
How many lives
do they have to ruin?
The questions of lawyers are not evidence.
Who's next, Mr. Feeney?
Where does it stop?
Was it a natural and probable result?
Here you have to look at the evidence,
ladies and gentlemen.
If you embarrass him
and you humiliate him,
you can produce violence.
Is that something
that normally pops into our head?
"Gee, I'm embarrassed.
I think I'll go kill somebody"?
This is negligence, ladies and gentlemen.
This is the definition of negligence.
The reason that you can
find the show liable
is because they did something wrong,
and they did cause the death.
Negligence is the failure
to use ordinary care.
You have an opportunity
to render real justice.
It is reasonable for you
to come back with a conclusion
that the show was not negligent.
You see, because it's very difficult
in any other place except in America
that that little man and that woman
can stand up in a courtroom
equal to Warner Brothers
and say, "We got justice."
You do justice.
Thank you all.
Was the defendant negligent
in one or more of the ways
claimed by the plaintiff?
- How do you answer?
- Yes.
Question number two.
Was the defendant's negligence
a proximate cause of injuries
or damage to the plaintiff?
How do you answer? Yes or no?
Yes.
The judgment
was nearly unanimous.
Eight out of nine jurors
ruled in favor of damages...
and awarded
the Amedure family $25 million.
They are proud to be the David
to a media Goliath.
Scott's here today shining over us.
He was here through the whole trial.
I guess I'm pretty proud
that we were able to...
Uh...
We did what we came for.
To teach them guys you can't do that.
Maybe we'll do something
about these shows now that are happening,
and there won't be
no more killings, like...
Mr. Amedure?
Excuse me. Excuse me.
Like I lost my son.
Warner Brothers was supportive.
I mean, they knew
that this was a possible outcome.
This has a profoundly chilling effect
not only on talk shows,
but on all the media.
And they were totally committed
to, uh, getting justice,
just like the Amedure family.
That is unprecedented
and will be absolutely overturned
by the Michigan Court of Appeals.
Not only is it not unprecedented,
it's... it's contained
within the restatement of torts.
Gentlemen, let me jump in.
As we've seen, I think the case is over,
but the debate continues
with Geoffrey Fieger, Jim Feeney.
Gentlemen, thanks for joining us
this morning. I appreciate the time.
Juries love to stick it
to big corporations behaving badly,
and there are a lot of things that, uh...
that are ethically, morally very bad,
uh, but are still legal
because it would be even worse
if you tried to make them illegal.
The case should have been
dismissed before there was a trial.
There was no legal obligation
on the part of the show's producers
to influence the outcome
of what Jonathan Schmitz did
to Scott Amedure on March 9th.
Journalists every day set up sources
knowing that they're going to betray them,
in a certain way,
for the public interest,
to get important material
out to the public.
And...
Trash TV may make you cringe,
but it would make you cringe a lot more
if you lost the First Amendment
in getting rid of trash TV.
Remember, the Supreme Court
of the United States
gave the Dred Scott decision,
which upheld slavery,
so that doesn't make it right.
So we're gonna compare the Jenny Jones
verdict to the Dred Scott case.
- I'm not diverting.
- Come on, Geoffrey.
That was pretty satisfying, uh...
and pretty satisfying to have, uh, a 30...
what was then, I think,
about $33 million with interest...
uh, maybe 35.
It could have been 35, taken away.
Not one person can name
any of those jurists who took it away,
and the minute they died,
nobody remembered that they ever lived
on the face of the earth.
And people still remember Scott Amedure.
And I think that I would rather have that
than all the money in the world.
See, there's no winning in this.
Everybody's lost.
The Amedures, they've lost a son,
and the Schmitzes,
for all intents and purposes,
have lost a son for a number of years,
although he'll be back, yes.
But this was like an octopus,
this whole case.
The tentacles reached out,
and everybody it touched, it harmed.
And nobody's going to win.
Nobody's ever going to win.
When a trial becomes a story,
you are buying into the notion
that there's closure.
And the problem is that in real life,
there's never closure.
The answers are not clear.
And when the answers aren't clear,
you keep asking the question
over and over.
I know that in the months and years
after this tragedy,
Jenny Jones was never
the least bit apologetic.
The one thing that I sort of
come away with after all this
is I really am just very cynical
about the press.
Any regrets, Jon?
You know, this was a rush to judgment.
It was unfair reporting
for the sake of a sensational story.
This was a story that had legs.
We were getting great readership.
But I always had this kind of uneasy feel
about what we were doing
because in our coverage,
we were exploiting people
who'd been exploiting people.
And, you know,
did we harm the people involved?
Maybe.
I-I'm still uneasy about...
about the coverage.
I came to a point
where I wouldn't do
any more interviews anymore,
and I didn't care to deal with anybody
in the media.
That would probably be one of the things
if I ever was gonna question again
might be,
could we have done
all that stuff differently?
Did we have to fall
into the trap of the media?
The trial by media.
Did we really need
to go on all them television shows?
Could we have just all remained silent
and went through this whole trial?
And would that have maybe been better?
I don't know.
It did set a... a tone in my life
that was like being in a dream
or in a movie.
Some of it put me in awe,
and some of it got me angry,
and some of it got me sad,
and some of it made me proud,
and the movie just kept going and going.
I actually had to pay some company
to come and get his trailer.
It was all messed up from the...
gun thing, so nobody would ever want it.
So it went to a junkyard.
I just wish that he'd be understood
for who he is
and not some gay person that confessed
his crush to somebody on TV
as if he was a criminal or something.
He didn't want to hurt nobody.
I think if he would have known
that Schmitz felt the way he did,
that he wouldn't have done it.
I think that he just wanted to be on TV.
What do you think
he would be doing today?
He might be working with you guys.
He would have loved that kind...
This kind of stuff. This is his thing.
Yeah, he'd have loved this stuff.
My guests today are romantically involved
with their own cousins.
Hey, how does it feel
to be free?
- Off. Get away from us.
- How's it feel to be free?
You.
Do you have anything to say
to Scott's family?
- Huh?
- You need a real job, mister.
Is your teen
dressing or acting too sexy?
We're gonna tell you what's fake
and real on these women.
We're gonna start with Rachel.