The Story of God with Morgan Freeman (2016–…): Season 1, Episode 5 - Why Does Evil Exist? - full transcript
Where does evil come from? Morgan sets out to understand the root of evil and how our ideas of it have evolved over the millennia.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: I grew up
in Mississippi.
In my neighborhood,
everyone was black.
Day-to-day, I didn't see
overt signs of segregation,
but when I went up-town,
it was a different story.
There's no bus service here
anymore.
But when I was a boy...
I was only allowed
into one of these doors.
One said, "white,"
one said, "colored."
As a kid, when you're confronted
with an evil like racism,
your first reaction
is confusion.
Why does this exist?
Where does it come from?
♪♪
(indistinct shouting)
For all of our capacity
to do good,
the urge to do evil
has plagued human history.
(chanting)
If you believe we live in
a world under divine control,
why should evil exist at all?
♪♪
So I'm going on a journey
to try to understand
why evil exists.
I know what you did. My question
is, can you tell me why?
♪♪
To discover
how it invades our lives.
V.A. VIDYA: People who believe
that they are possessed
by an evil spirit can come here.
MORGAN FREEMAN: How evil
first stole our hearts.
SALIMA IKRAM: If you're lying
or doing anything evil...
MORGAN FREEMAN: Your heart gets
heavy, and with a heavy heart,
you're not gonna go to heaven.
And I'll see how some religions
train us to fight the Devil.
ARMAN ARIANE:
You have two mentalities.
One is good, and one is bad.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
To turn the darkness...
BRIAN WIDNER: I did some
incredibly terrible things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: ...into light.
You represent
the hope of the world.
♪♪
♪♪
To understand why evil exists,
we have to know
where it comes from.
Some faiths see it as
an unseen force that pervades
the entire world...
demons that lurk
in the darkness.
For Christianity, it could be
the Devil himself.
Or is evil something
that comes from inside us?
♪♪
So, I'm travelling to
a maximum-security prison
to meet a man you could call
evil incarnate.
So Kent, have you ever come
face-to-face with evil?
DR. KIEHL:
I've met some people who've
done some very bad things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Neuroscientist
Dr. Kent Kiehl is trying
to pinpoint the source of evil
inside the brains
of psychopathic killers.
DR. KIEHL: I wanted to try
to understand why people do
really bad things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Uh-huh.
DR. KIEHL: And how
to help prevent it someday.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
I'm about to meet
one of Dr. Kiehl's
most notorious subjects.
♪♪
He's serving
a life sentence here.
His attorney tells me this man
raped more than
two dozen women...
♪♪
...and murdered three.
♪♪
ATTORNEY: He's been in jail
almost since he was a teenager,
except for very short spurts
where when he would
get out of jail,
he would go back to
the same behavior of raping,
and eventually,
it evolved into murder.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Did he confess to these?
ATTORNEY:
He confessed to all of 'em.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm not
going to show you his face
because I don't want to give
any more notoriety to the man
who committed these atrocities.
But I want to know what can make
someone do what he did?
You know who I am?
PRISONER: Yes.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
I know what you did.
My question is,
can you tell me why?
♪♪
PRISONER: It was
a spur-of-the-moment thing.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Each time?
PRISONER: I didn't have any plan
to go out and snatch anybody...
♪♪
...commit any sexual violence
against anybody.
I had a desire, an impulse,
and I wasn't able to stop myself
from acting on that impulse.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Let me ask you,
about what age did you start?
PRISONER:
Back when I was 21 or 22.
I was out looking for
something to steal,
and I just spotted a teacher
who had stayed late.
So I decided to rob her,
kidnap her, and rape her.
I just pulled over on an access
road, and she fought back,
slipped through the door,
and I just turned around
and...took off.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
When did you first kill?
PRISONER: Going on 27.
I was going out to
commit a burglary,
and...the crime happened.
(clears throat)
MORGAN FREEMAN: Kidnapped,
raped, and murdered?
PRISONER: Yeah.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm looking
for the correct term.
It, isn't guilt, it's remorse.
Remorse.
Did you ever experience that
that you know of?
PRISONER: I don't see emotions
like everybody else.
I don't feel them.
There was no...remorse.
I think that I'm not wired
the same as everybody else.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: So, Kent.
-DR. KIEHL: Yeah.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Is this psychopathic?
DR. KIEHL: In psychiatry,
we have a way of assessing
what we call psychopathy
or psychopathic
personality disorder,
and the lack of empathy,
the impulse control,
the poor planning --
He scores
in the 99th percentile.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
What makes a person evil?
Kent has scanned the brains
of 800 psychopathic criminals.
This prisoner is the most
extreme case he's ever seen.
DR. KIEHL: So this is
a standard MRI scan.
It looks pretty normal when
you run through the MRI scan.
But what we did is quantify
all the different areas
of his brain and to try to
understand how dense are they?
How strong are they, basically?
This area of
the orbital frontal cortex,
it's very important for
the formation of personality,
for the control of impulses,
for regulating behavior.
These three bars
that I show here,
this is the average inmate,
this is other individuals
that we call psychopaths
in the red bar,
and you can see that he is --
he's really reduced.
He really does have
a different brain.
And so he really does fit
that 99th percentile.
He's, you know,
one-in-a-million, actually.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
One-in-a-million?
DR. KIEHL: He's very rare.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: You've been in
prison now for, what, 30 years?
PRISONER: Yep.
(clears throat) Long time.
MORGAN FREEMAN: What if I said
I have a way to get you out?
Would you want to go?
PRISONER: I'd want to go, but
since I did commit those crimes,
I still have that...
MORGAN FREEMAN: Impulse...
PRISONER: ...capacity.
Society wouldn't be safe.
I don't have the same controls
as you do
or somebody else does.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This is an evil man.
Evil personified.
Neuroscientists say that
his behavior is a result of
bad neural wiring.
But the question is, even so,
does he not still have a choice?
Can he choose not to commit
a heinous crime?
Psychopaths are at the extreme
of human behavior.
But we all face the choice
to do good or do evil.
♪♪
And for thousands of years,
we've battled those urges.
♪♪
I've come to Luxor,
capital of ancient Egypt.
Egyptologist Salima Ikram
is going to show me one of
the oldest depictions
of our struggle to choose
between good and evil.
So, right over there?
SALIMA IKRAM: Mm-hmm. Yes.
All the east, and to the part
on the other side of the Nile,
east of the Nile, was always
the land of the living.
♪♪
And then over here, you have the
land of the dead, on the west.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Literally.
All those are tombs.
SALIMA IKRAM: Yep.
All of those are tombs,
and I want to show you
one in particular.
MORGAN FREEMAN: These are
the tombs of the nobles,
just around the corner
from the Valley of the Kings,
where Tutankhamun was buried
more than 3 millennia ago.
SALIMA IKRAM:
So here's the tomb of Menna.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Menna.
SALIMA IKRAM: Uh-huh.
Here we go.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Oh!
Oh!
Look at that!
SALIMA IKRAM: There we are.
That's Menna, over there, and he
was a scribe for the god Amun.
And he oversaw the lands of the
god Amun, and also over here,
you can see this big harvest
that he's checking out.
MORGAN FREEMAN: It's great.
They're harvesting their wheat.
This artwork is 3,500 years old?
SALIMA IKRAM: Yep. 1370 BC.
And it hasn't been touched up.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Those are his scribes.
He's overseeing the scribes.
SALIMA IKRAM: Precisely.
MORGAN FREEMAN: A-ha, ha, ha.
SALIMA: And...
MORGAN FREEMAN: When I get back
to the States,
I'm gonna be
a hieroglyphic expert.
SALIMA IKRAM: You are, indeed.
Now, let me show you
a little something
about how Menna gets
to go to the afterlife.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Menna's tomb
includes a remarkable feature
that Salima tells me
I have to see.
♪♪
A scene where Menna
would be judged on the balance
of good and evil he had done.
SALIMA IKRAM:
This all funerary procession.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay.
SALIMA IKRAM: You can see
his coffin being brought here.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's his coffin, there?
SALIMA IKRAM:
Uh-huh. That's his coffin.
And then he's brought here,
finally,
in front of the god Osiris.
♪♪
This is Menna.
And then here, you have
a complete innovation.
It's the first time
you'll ever see this, really,
in a private tomb, and that is
the weighing of the heart scene.
And here he is being judged
to see if he was good
or if he was evil.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
In front of Osiris,
the god of the Underworld,
Menna's heart is weighed against
the goddess of truth, Ma'at...
while Thoth, her husband,
writes down the judgement.
SALIMA IKRAM: So it's almost
as if it's a Cliff Note for him.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
(chuckles) Gotcha.
Cliff Notes.
SALIMA IKRAM: So, if you're
lying or stealing or cheating
or doing anything evil,
the whole thing is the fact that
it reflects on your heart.
MORGAN FREEMAN: All of that
weighs on your heart,
your heart gets heavy...
SALIMA IKRAM: Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
I have a heavy heart.
SALIMA IKRAM: Yes.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
And with a heavy heart,
you're not gonna go to heaven.
SALIMA IKRAM: That's right.
You won't be able
to have lift-off, basically.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Ah.
Just -- Good. Well-put.
(chuckles)
So in this depiction,
his heart is indeed in balance.
SALIMA IKRAM: Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right?
-SALIMA IKRAM: Right.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: So he's cool.
-SALIMA: Totally cool.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: All right.
SALIMA IKRAM: Good to go
into the afterlife.
MORGAN FREEMAN: You would think
that that would be
the beginning,
at least somehow,
of the Judeo-Christian ethic,
as it were,
in terms of good and evil.
SALIMA IKRAM: Basically,
I think that modern religion
has its roots
in this idea of morality,
and that anything bad
you do is reflected
and can be judged in some way.
The Egyptians were very literal.
They said you can judge it
by your heart.
But even now, when,
you know, you can say,
"He is pure of heart,"
it means he's a good person.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right. Right.
In the centuries after Menna,
the idea of eternal reward
for turning one's back on evil
spread throughout
Egyptian society.
And from there, it may have fed
into Judaism, Christianity,
and Islam.
♪♪
The weighing of the heart
assumes that
fear of consequences is
the only thing that keeps us
on a righteous path.
Which makes me wonder...
are we inherently good?
Or inherently evil?
♪♪
In fact, that question
is at the very root
of the Christian faith.
♪♪
The early leaders of the church
trace our tendency to sin
back to Adam and Eve,
who ate the forbidden fruit --
original sin.
♪♪
I've come to meet Baptist
reverend and theologian
Kutter Callaway to find out
whether original sin means
we are all evil at heart.
REV. CALLAWAY: Hi.
Pleasure to meet you.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
-REV. CALLAWAY: Have a seat.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
Which book were you reading?
REV. CALLAWAY: The first
few chapters of Genesis.
MORGAN FREEMAN: That is exactly
what I'm gonna talk about,
and what I'm want to talk about
is sin.
What is original sin?
REV. CALLAWAY:
Well, it's a good question.
The Christian tradition -- it
kind of coined "original sin."
Some primal desire
that we all have,
that's a very basic
human urge or impulse.
Because Adam sinned,
that original sin was passed on
from one generation
to the next -- perpetuated,
generation after generation
after generation.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I have recently
spent some time with a person
who we could say personifies...
REV. CALLAWAY: Mm. Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN: ...evil.
And you just say,
"Why did you do these things?"
And he would say,
"I just felt like it.
And beyond that, I don't know."
Now that's inherent evil.
Well, isn't it?
REV. CALLAWAY: What you saw,
you could name that as
a sort of demonic thing.
MORGAN FREEMAN: This is demonic.
REV. CALLAWAY: It's demonic.
But I think it's important
for us to acknowledge that
that there is a little bit
of him in all of us.
There's something inherent in us
that seems to bend itself
towards death and violence.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Is there a Devil?
Or is that just a metaphor?
REV. CALLAWAY: It is a metaphor,
and also, the Devil is real.
♪♪
There's a lot of different
forms -- you know,
Devils with pitchforks to
goblins and ghouls, et cetera.
In the New Testament, you even
get Jesus interacting with
Satan, and yet at the same time,
you have Jesus talking
to one of his disciples
and saying at one point,
Get behind me, Satan.
So it seems even Jesus
is dealing with both
an actual presence -- what
we might say is a personified
evil, and at the same time,
that we can be satanic, demonic,
in our own desire to steer away
from what God wants.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: We are born with
the capacity for evil inside us.
Most of us struggle our whole
lives to resist the temptation
to do wrong.
But that could be another source
of evil in our lives --
the people who brought us
into this world...
PRISONER:
My dad was an alcoholic.
MORGAN FREEMAN: ...whether
they are living or dead.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Why does
evil exist in the world?
Is it because we all
have evil inside us,
or does it come
from somewhere else?
♪♪
I've travelled to India to
understand what Hindus believe
is a source of evil --
the unhappy souls
of their ancestors.
I'm in the city of Varanasi to
visit the temple Pishach Mochan,
where exorcisms go on
all day long.
♪♪
My guide,
Varanasi resident and educator
V.A. Vidya, introduces me
to the head priest,
and to see the
goblin, or Pischach,
who is said to live here.
V.A. VIDYA: So there is
the goblin, for 15 years,
just wandering around in pain,
so he finally prayed to Shiva.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
The great Hindu god Shiva
puts the goblin through
a purifying ritual,
which ends
with a dip in the nearby pond.
That instantly
cures him of his disease.
In return, Shiva orders
the goblin to protect people
near the pond from
any other evil spirits.
V.A. VIDYA: Now Shiva asks,
"Okay, you are cured,
so you are going to help
all the people who suffer
being possessed by evil."
MORGAN FREEMAN: So this is
a benign goblin.
V.A. VIDYA: Yes.
He's a benign goblin.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Now this pond
has become a place of healing,
a haven for people who feel
their lives are haunted
by an evil presence.
V.A. VIDYA: So here,
look at the water.
It's brackish, but people
believe that something is --
MORGAN FREEMAN: Brackish?
Is that a term for it?
V.A. VIDYA: Yeah.
So, you know, the typical theme
is water cleanses everything.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay.
I'm gonna buy that.
V.A. VIDYA: (laughs)
♪♪
Hindus believe that when
someone's death is traumatic
or unhappy,
their soul can become angry
and haunt the lives of their
children or other relatives.
This can cause mental
or physical illness
even financial troubles.
♪♪
The correct rituals, however,
can liberate the unhappy soul
and free the living.
♪♪
What's going on over there?
V.A. VIDYA: That's the Shaman.
He is preparing.
MORGAN FREEMAN: He's exorcising?
V.A. VIDYA: Yes.
MAN: (chanting)
V.A. VIDYA:
Their conversation --
no one can understand.
It's done in a --
MORGAN FREEMAN: What,
they're speaking in tongues?
V.A. VIDYA: He's speaking
in tongues, yes.
And then the patient responds --
either screams
or responds in tongues.
Or they have spasms.
And then finally,
they believe that it's released.
MAN: (groans)
MORGAN FREEMAN: Most of the
people who come here don't need
a full-on exorcism
like this man.
(praying in native language)
The Shukla family
are typical clients.
They are having money troubles,
and they worry that the spirits
of their ancestors
may be the cause.
(praying in native language)
V.A. VIDYA:
This is a departure ritual
for the spirit
that is wandering around.
(chanting)
MORGAN FREEMAN: What gives you
the impression,
what makes one think,
"Oh, my parents' spirits
are not settled"?
V.A. VIDYA:
I think personal troubles.
Them, something is
causing them trouble,
whenever there's
a financial loss in the family,
and frequent sicknesses,
bad dreams, and --
so everything is associated
with this procession.
(praying in native language)
MORGAN FREEMAN: To make
their ancestors' spirits happy,
the Shuklas must
prepare them a good meal --
one that is blessed
by the priest.
V.A. VIDYA: They offer honey,
clarified butter, banana,
fruits, and everything.
And this would be offered
to dead soul,
which is gonna eat the food,
so this will be a special meal.
♪♪
After receiving all the food,
they offer a lamp
and an umbrella
and a pair of shoes.
So here, every departed soul is
treated like a real human being.
MORGAN FREEMAN: The spirit?
V.A. VIDYA: Yes. The spirit is
treated like a real human being.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: The ancestors
receive what they need
for their journey
in the afterlife.
After the Shuklas offer the food
to the sacred pond
and nail a coin
to this holy tree...
♪♪
...the unhappy souls
of their ancestors are set free,
and the shadow of evil lifts.
♪♪
In Christianity, you've got
the Devil and you've got God,
you've got good,
you've got evil.
Don't seem to have that
going on in Hinduism.
V.A. VIDYA: In Hinduism,
there's no dichotomy between
good and evil -- the same person
can become good and evil.
In a temple like this,
even the evil is treated
very respectfully
and is treated caringly.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's very interesting.
Very interesting concept.
Because I think it sort of
frees us up to be better.
V.A. VIDYA:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
There's always, at the end,
the hope.
The hope that even the evil
can be liberated.
And evil can be purified,
like taking a dip into the pond.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
So I've been watching people
in these temples -- I mean,
crowds of people -- doing ritual
after ritual, trying to stay
in the good graces of
their ancestors.
But the thing about it is,
evil is not spurned.
Evil is thought of as
a spirit that needs help.
Just...needs to find peace.
Cool.
♪♪
Hindus want to guide evil
into becoming good.
That idea is also the basis
of another faith...
♪♪
...one of the oldest
and most influential religions
in the world,
but it's one most of us
have never heard of.
It's called Zoroastrianism.
♪♪
I've come
to Orange County, California,
to meet the president of
the temple here, Arman Ariane.
ARMAN: Welcome to California
Zoroastrian Centre.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
Zoroastrianism began
3,500 years ago in ancient Iran.
The central symbol of the faith
is fire.
Today, there are just a few
small pockets of Zoroastrians
around the world,
mostly in India and Iran.
But some are here in California.
ARMAN: This is the fire temple.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This fire is always going?
ARMAN: This is a symbol
of Zoroastrianism.
The fire's always going.
It represents enlightenment,
and the more you are aware
of this world of ours,
the more you know what's ahead,
the better decisions
you can make.
It's kind of like you are
walking with a flashlight
in your hand.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Yeah. The
brighter the light in your life.
ARMAN: That's right.
MORGAN FREEMAN: How does that
tie in to Zoroastrian belief in
the separation of good and evil?
(screaming)
ARMAN: In Zarathustra's school
of thought,
you have two mentalities, which
are translated by Westerners
as spirits.
One is good, and one is bad.
They are principles.
They are a way of behaving.
So the Zoroastrian motto is
Good Thoughts, Good Words,
and Good Deeds.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Zoroastrianism
is a religion focused on
defeating evil.
♪♪
Zoroastrian priests wear clean,
white robes...
which, like their sacred flame,
represent enlightenment,
the path away from evil.
(praying in Avestan)
Prayers are still said
in the ancient Iranian language,
Avestan, which was spoken
by its founder, Zoroaster.
(praying continues)
Professor of Religion
Gregory Riley had been studying
how Zoroastrian beliefs
shaped Judaism and Christianity
and how they gave birth
to the idea of the Devil.
(screaming)
Zoroastrianism predates
the Abrahamic religions.
GREGORY RILEY:
That's right. Yeah.
Zoroaster postulated that
to defeat evil in the world,
we're gonna have to have
a cataclysmic battle.
(thunder rumbles)
(horse neighs)
And God and the Devil
are gonna fight it out.
(snarling)
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's New Testament. That's
not in Zoroastrian, though.
GREGORY RILEY:
Yes, it is Zoroastrianism. Yeah.
And if you go to the great mass
of religions around,
there's no Devil.
The Israelites --
they lived without a Devil
until they are in Babylon.
The Jews met Zoroastrianism, and
they began to assimilate ideas.
They come back,
and the Devil begins to appear
in Jewish literature --
these ideas about the Devil
having caused that evil.
And those things
start to work on people.
So by the time
we get to Jesus' day,
they've actually created a name
for the Devil -- Beelzebub,
if you've heard that one.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: I have.
He's got a few of 'em.
-GREGORY RILEY: Yeah.
So the great competitor of Jesus
in our New Testament
and Gospels.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This is now a new take.
GREGORY RILEY: That's right.
Jews make it their own.
Christians make it their own.
Islam makes it their own.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: But just
as the idea of the Devil
in Christianity
evolved from ancient beliefs,
modern Zoroastrianism
has evolved, too.
For many Zoroastrians,
the Devil is no longer
a real demonic figure.
It's an internal combatant --
the struggle
between good and evil
is one that takes place
in the mind.
♪♪
GREGORY RILEY:
So the Zoroastrian motto
is Good Thoughts, Good Words,
and Good Deeds,
and the order is very important
because you start
with a thought,
you talk it with a mentor
before you take any actions.
This way, you don't
get yourself in trouble.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
And there is no...Satan.
There is no Devil.
Something outside,
influencing us.
GREGORY RILEY: Right.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Meaning, therefore,
that God is resident
in each of us.
GREGORY RILEY: Each of us.
♪♪
(praying in Avestan)
The Zoroastrian school
of thought is not something
in the past or future, but what
we can do at this very time.
All our problems
in the world are man-made.
Therefore,
they should be solved by man.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Can be. Must be.
GREGORY RILEY: To blame it
on a supernatural force is not
a Zoroastrian notion.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right.
Zoroastrians believe that good
and evil exists within us all
and we must make
the choice for good.
Each one of us has to purge evil
from within us every day
by...doing good.
Doing the right thing.
Purging the world of evil
is not the work
of messiahs, kings, prophets.
It's the work of each one of us.
Be we tailor, butcher,
salesman, actor, whoever we are.
I like that.
But is it really possible
to conquer evil without
the threat of a real devil?
Without the threat
of eternal punishment?
♪♪
In New Zealand, psychologist
Jesse Bering believes
we need supernatural beings
to keep us on the right track.
(chatter)
JESSE BERING: Are you guys ready
to play a game?
CHILDREN: Yeah!
JESSE BERING: Jesse devised an
experiment to test this theory.
BOY: Oh.
JESSE BERING: All right.
Why don't you guys make a circle
and sit in front of me here, and
I'll go over the rules for you.
See this piece of tape?
The first rule is that
you can't step over the line.
The second rule is that
you've got to throw
with your back to the dartboard.
So you can kind of go like this,
and do the best that you can.
Oh. See?
♪♪
Oh! (chuckles)
Not that easy, is it?
You're gonna be playing
this game one at a time,
and the person that gets the
most points on the dartboard
gets a very special prize
at the end of the day.
All right, we'll see
you guys in a little bit.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse watches
through hidden cameras to see
if the children cheat.
JESSE BERING: So here
we've got a little boy,
and you can almost see
the machinations in his mind.
Let's see if he does it.
You can hardly blame
a 6-year-old for doing that.
He really wants the prize and
thinks he can get away with it.
And it's the normal
child response.
♪♪
This little girl, look at her,
she's going right over the line.
And she's putting several balls
on the board itself,
and she's checking now to see if
anybody's actually watching her
or can see what she's just done.
They think
they're alone in the room,
and why not cheat
if you can get away with it
and nobody's watching?
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: But what if
someone was watching?
Jesse runs the exact
same experiment on a new group
of children and an invisible
supernatural being.
JESSE BERING:
Now, before we begin,
I wanted to introduce you guys
to somebody really special,
who's in the room
with us right now.
Now, her name is Princess Alice.
Have any of you ever heard
of Princess Alice before?
She's a very friendly
magical princess,
and she's got
a very special ability --
she can make herself invisible.
♪♪
Princess Alice is sitting
in that chair right now.
So you guys go upstairs for now,
and then we're gonna bring you
each down individually
to play the game.
MORGAN FREEMAN: With the kids
believing they are under
the gaze
of an invisible princess,
Jesse sees something remarkable.
JESSE BERING:
Now, this little girl --
She's been pretty good so far.
Clearly not interested
in breaking the rules.
So here we've got a little girl
who's actually
touching the chair
to see if maybe she can feel
Princess Alice sitting there.
GIRL: Princess Alice?
JESSE BERING: Oh, she's
saying, "Princess Alice,"
so she's clearly
not cheating here.
JESSE: That's the power
of belief, you know?
That these kids have never
heard of her before,
but all of a sudden,
she becomes real in their minds.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse's results
are always the same.
JESSE BERING: So what we've seen
after testing hundreds of kids
with this study is that
kids that are told
that Princess Alice
is in the room with them
when they're left alone
are significantly less likely
to cheat.
♪♪
She's doing the same thing that
any supernatural agent or god
would do in a given society --
she is watching them,
she cares about their
social behavior, and ultimately,
at least, the implicit
assumption is that somehow
she will act if they violate
one of the rules.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse's research
suggests that we need to believe
we're being watched
to eliminate selfish behavior
to keep evil in check.
JESSE BERING:
So the proverbial question is,
would you rob a bank
if you thought that nobody
could possibly know
that you've done that?
And I think if we're honest
with ourselves,
many of us would walk in there
and actually take
all that currency.
An all-seeing, all-knowing,
all-powerful interventionist,
moralistic deity
that helps steer people in
the direction of good behavior.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
The reward of heaven
and the threat of
eternal punishment in hell
keep us on the right track.
But what about those
who have succumbed to evil?
Can faith lead us to redemption?
Or does evil mark us for life?
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
I'm travelling the world
to discover why people believe
evil exists.
Christians, Jews,
and Muslims believe it's part
of the human condition
to be tempted to do wrong.
Many faiths urge us
to fight temptation...
to put the greater good
ahead of our self-interest.
But can we actually
rid ourselves of evil?
In Sarnath, India...
I witness how Tibetan Buddhists
purged themselves
of evil thoughts.
(all chanting)
The monks here at the
Vajra Vidya monastery perform
daily chanting rituals.
(chanting continues)
The music puts them in
a meditative state of mind.
(chanting continues)
Buddhists believe the urge to
do evil stems from our ignorance
of how our minds work.
(horns sounding)
The ritual helps these
young monks locate the source
of those bad thoughts...
so that they can understand
their cause and overcome them.
(siren wails)
But not everyone wants
to fight their inner demons.
♪♪
There are plenty of people who
seem to be hell-bent on
doing bad things.
(gunshots)
Is there any way to change them?
♪♪
I've asked Kent Kiehl,
the neuroscientist who
studies psychopaths,
to meet me again.
I want to know
if his brain scans
give us a way to combat evil.
I mean, we always accept evil
as...how it is.
It just is. There's nothing
we can do about it.
But could these brain scans
be used maybe to intercept
some young people
before they get going on this?
DR. KIEHL: I think they can.
When we understand the systems
of the brain that are different
in people who commit
these bad crimes,
it gives us an opportunity
to try and develop
a treatment for that.
It's like, if you, you know,
if I injure my arm and my --
this muscle gets atrophied, just
like these certain areas of
the brain are atrophied, I might
be able to develop a treatment
program that remediates
that atrophy and fix it.
MORGAN FREEMAN: At about
what age range would you think,
as an expert,
you would have to start looking?
DR. KIEHL: Following Sandy Hook
elementary-school shooting
in the United States,
we were asked by the parents
who lost their children there
to do that study
to analyze the brains of kids
that we've studied who've killed
other people versus
kids in prison who have not,
and when we did that analysis,
I wasn't sure that we would
find anything that different,
but we really did.
Certain areas
of the temporal lobes,
of the emotional areas of
the brain, were underdeveloped,
where they hadn't achieved
a normal development.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
So when you say "kids,"
what are you talking about?
DR. KIEHL: 14, 5, 16. Yeah.
So that's the kids
we were working with.
Unfortunately, those kids
had killed about 16 people.
The neuroscience today is about
10, 11, 12, we think,
that we could help identify and
separate kids that are problems
versus kids
that are just disruptive
and are gonna grow out of it.
If you were a judge
and you wanted to know
is this a high-risk kid
or a low-risk kid, we can say,
"This is a high-risk kid."
We now have a tool
that can help us understand
or can help predict
the worst type of things
that we all want to prevent --
a homicide, a death.
What we really want to be able
to do is get better and better
at predicting, and then
that'll help us be better
and better at preventing.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Science may help
identify those who are most
prone to evil.
♪♪
But how do you turn your back
on a life of evil?
♪♪
I've come to Los Angeles to
meet a man who wiped all trace
of evil from his life.
TATTOOIST: All right, buddy,
you are all done.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm looking
for Brian -- Brian Widner.
Morgan Freeman.
BRIAN WIDNER: Brian Widner.
How are you?
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm very well
indeed. How are you?
BRIAN WIDNER:
I am doing well, sir.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Tell me
something about yourself.
I hear terrible things.
BRIAN: Well, for 16 years,
I was a Neo-Nazi skinhead.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
A Neo-Nazi skinhead.
BRIAN: Yes, sir. I was in
multiple skinhead gangs.
I was an enforcer in one, did
some incredibly terrible things
to a lot of undeserving people.
I was an evil person.
I wanted to hurt the world.
That's all I wanted to do.
I was -- I had a sense of just
utter destruction for everybody.
That was my driving goal.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Let me ask you,
how did you get to the street,
and why were you on the street?
BRIAN WIDNER:
I fell in with a gang,
basically, is what happened.
I fell in with the wrong people.
(shouting "Sieg Heil")
I was 14 years old,
and I was running the streets.
These guys gave me a place
to stay, they bought me beer,
made me feel accepted
and wanted.
And after about my 10th year,
I kind of realized
this is a subculture
of degenerates.
I realized
I'm not superior to anybody.
In fact, I was pretty well
a lower form of humanity,
you know?
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay. Now,
we're up to 10 years after
you've been running around
with these people,
and you've had an epiphany.
Tell me a little bit about that.
BRIAN WIDNER:
Some really just magical things
just kind of happened
out of nowhere.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Like?
BRIAN WIDNER: Well I went to
a skinhead concert in 2005,
and I met a woman there.
And by the January of 2006,
we got married.
By February, she was pregnant.
It was, I had to start
taking a hard look at
what I was doing with myself.
I'm bringing this child
into a world,
and I told 'em I can't
do this anymore, I'm done.
I got to take care of my son.
So during that time, I made
the change on the inside,
I actually had to make a
physical change on the outside.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: How was that?
-BRIAN WIDNER: Let me show you.
That is what
I used to look like.
I mean, my neck
was completely sleeved-out,
my face was sleeved-out.
I looked the part.
I couldn't escape the way
I looked on the outside,
even though I had already
changed on the inside.
I got in contact with the
Southern Poverty Law Center.
They actually set it up to where
I was able to get the tattoos
taken off my face.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Well, now,
I mean, I can see little
indications of scars, that,
more like you were maybe
in a fight at some point,
and it healed up.
It doesn't look like you had
all this stuff removed.
How long a process was that?
BRIAN WIDNER:
It took about 2 1/2 years.
There was 25, 26 treatments,
something like that.
Every two weeks,
I was getting laser-zapped.
It was ungodly, excruciating.
My face was constantly swollen.
I looked like the Elephant Man.
It was a bad time.
And here's actually a picture
of me during the process.
MORGAN FREEMAN: That looked like
you got punched in the eye.
BRIAN WIDNER: Yes. It looks like
I was a bad boxer, yeah.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Yeah.
(both laugh)
Sort of like paying dues.
BRIAN WIDNER:
I very much looked at it
as a penance, actually, yes.
I took the pain to --
as a reminder that
I've caused enough,
so I might as well have some.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Can you describe
to me your sense of yourself
in those times,
in terms of evil?
BRIAN: Looking back,
I had absolutely no remorse.
I was borderline sociopathic.
I had no feelings.
I wanted to hurt the world.
When I was going through
the tattoo removal, I found God.
Before that, I was a pagan,
and my life was always dark.
I always had a hole in my soul,
I guess,
would be the best
way to put that.
I don't know exactly
what his name is
or if it's even Judeo-Christian.
There is a godly presence
in the universe,
and it made itself known to me.
It helped me realize
that there is good and evil
in all of us, and my goal now
is basically when I just leave
this world a better place than
when I got into it, you know?
Just try to be a good person.
That's all I can do,
and I hope that's good enough.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
We have...sometimes...
thoughts that evil just exists
and there's no hope.
But you represent
the hope of the world.
That transformation --
that complete transformation
that you, yourself, made.
BRIAN WIDNER: Absolutely.
MORGAN FREEMAN: And for you to
be able to just completely turn
yourself around like that,
it is very, very encouraging.
And I'm honored to talk to you.
BRIAN WIDNER: Thank you.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Well,
I've got to tell you something
I've been noticing.
You're a good-looking man.
BRIAN WIDNER: Well, thank you.
And so are you, by the way.
(both laugh)
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: The outward
stains of Brian's past
have been wiped away.
But I'm struck by
the astonishing difference
in his two lives on the inside.
That was evil in his heart.
His admission.
Deep and remorseless.
But, he says,
the birth of his son
and a dawning belief in God
is what purged him of evil.
If Brian can do that, it gives
us hope that people can change.
Evil can be contained.
♪♪
This hope is at the core
of the Christian faith.
MINISTER: We have gathered today
on this riverbank
to perform one of the oldest
traditions in our faith --
that of baptism.
MORGAN FREEMAN: People sin, but
those sins can be washed away.
MINISTER: We follow
Jesus' example today
as we baptize Austin, Katie,
Abby, Norman, and Chris.
These five do this as a sign
of repentance
and forgiveness of sin.
Baptism points the direction
to where we are headed,
and it's a new start on life.
MORGAN FREEMAN: The Bible tells
us Adam and Eve knew no evil
until they ate
the forbidden fruit.
Almost every faith tells
the story of how evil begins.
Whether we believe
it comes from unhappy souls...
the Devil himself...
or the Devil within...
(thunder crashes)
...we all eventually
come face-to-face with evil.
But I think
we need to know evil,
because in spite of
all the suffering it causes,
it drives us to do good.
Without evil, how would we have
ever developed
our unique
human characteristics --
the ability to express kindness,
mercy, forgiveness?
♪♪
-- Captions by VITAC --
MORGAN FREEMAN: I grew up
in Mississippi.
In my neighborhood,
everyone was black.
Day-to-day, I didn't see
overt signs of segregation,
but when I went up-town,
it was a different story.
There's no bus service here
anymore.
But when I was a boy...
I was only allowed
into one of these doors.
One said, "white,"
one said, "colored."
As a kid, when you're confronted
with an evil like racism,
your first reaction
is confusion.
Why does this exist?
Where does it come from?
♪♪
(indistinct shouting)
For all of our capacity
to do good,
the urge to do evil
has plagued human history.
(chanting)
If you believe we live in
a world under divine control,
why should evil exist at all?
♪♪
So I'm going on a journey
to try to understand
why evil exists.
I know what you did. My question
is, can you tell me why?
♪♪
To discover
how it invades our lives.
V.A. VIDYA: People who believe
that they are possessed
by an evil spirit can come here.
MORGAN FREEMAN: How evil
first stole our hearts.
SALIMA IKRAM: If you're lying
or doing anything evil...
MORGAN FREEMAN: Your heart gets
heavy, and with a heavy heart,
you're not gonna go to heaven.
And I'll see how some religions
train us to fight the Devil.
ARMAN ARIANE:
You have two mentalities.
One is good, and one is bad.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
To turn the darkness...
BRIAN WIDNER: I did some
incredibly terrible things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: ...into light.
You represent
the hope of the world.
♪♪
♪♪
To understand why evil exists,
we have to know
where it comes from.
Some faiths see it as
an unseen force that pervades
the entire world...
demons that lurk
in the darkness.
For Christianity, it could be
the Devil himself.
Or is evil something
that comes from inside us?
♪♪
So, I'm travelling to
a maximum-security prison
to meet a man you could call
evil incarnate.
So Kent, have you ever come
face-to-face with evil?
DR. KIEHL:
I've met some people who've
done some very bad things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Neuroscientist
Dr. Kent Kiehl is trying
to pinpoint the source of evil
inside the brains
of psychopathic killers.
DR. KIEHL: I wanted to try
to understand why people do
really bad things.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Uh-huh.
DR. KIEHL: And how
to help prevent it someday.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
I'm about to meet
one of Dr. Kiehl's
most notorious subjects.
♪♪
He's serving
a life sentence here.
His attorney tells me this man
raped more than
two dozen women...
♪♪
...and murdered three.
♪♪
ATTORNEY: He's been in jail
almost since he was a teenager,
except for very short spurts
where when he would
get out of jail,
he would go back to
the same behavior of raping,
and eventually,
it evolved into murder.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Did he confess to these?
ATTORNEY:
He confessed to all of 'em.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm not
going to show you his face
because I don't want to give
any more notoriety to the man
who committed these atrocities.
But I want to know what can make
someone do what he did?
You know who I am?
PRISONER: Yes.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
I know what you did.
My question is,
can you tell me why?
♪♪
PRISONER: It was
a spur-of-the-moment thing.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Each time?
PRISONER: I didn't have any plan
to go out and snatch anybody...
♪♪
...commit any sexual violence
against anybody.
I had a desire, an impulse,
and I wasn't able to stop myself
from acting on that impulse.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Let me ask you,
about what age did you start?
PRISONER:
Back when I was 21 or 22.
I was out looking for
something to steal,
and I just spotted a teacher
who had stayed late.
So I decided to rob her,
kidnap her, and rape her.
I just pulled over on an access
road, and she fought back,
slipped through the door,
and I just turned around
and...took off.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
When did you first kill?
PRISONER: Going on 27.
I was going out to
commit a burglary,
and...the crime happened.
(clears throat)
MORGAN FREEMAN: Kidnapped,
raped, and murdered?
PRISONER: Yeah.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm looking
for the correct term.
It, isn't guilt, it's remorse.
Remorse.
Did you ever experience that
that you know of?
PRISONER: I don't see emotions
like everybody else.
I don't feel them.
There was no...remorse.
I think that I'm not wired
the same as everybody else.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: So, Kent.
-DR. KIEHL: Yeah.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Is this psychopathic?
DR. KIEHL: In psychiatry,
we have a way of assessing
what we call psychopathy
or psychopathic
personality disorder,
and the lack of empathy,
the impulse control,
the poor planning --
He scores
in the 99th percentile.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
What makes a person evil?
Kent has scanned the brains
of 800 psychopathic criminals.
This prisoner is the most
extreme case he's ever seen.
DR. KIEHL: So this is
a standard MRI scan.
It looks pretty normal when
you run through the MRI scan.
But what we did is quantify
all the different areas
of his brain and to try to
understand how dense are they?
How strong are they, basically?
This area of
the orbital frontal cortex,
it's very important for
the formation of personality,
for the control of impulses,
for regulating behavior.
These three bars
that I show here,
this is the average inmate,
this is other individuals
that we call psychopaths
in the red bar,
and you can see that he is --
he's really reduced.
He really does have
a different brain.
And so he really does fit
that 99th percentile.
He's, you know,
one-in-a-million, actually.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
One-in-a-million?
DR. KIEHL: He's very rare.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: You've been in
prison now for, what, 30 years?
PRISONER: Yep.
(clears throat) Long time.
MORGAN FREEMAN: What if I said
I have a way to get you out?
Would you want to go?
PRISONER: I'd want to go, but
since I did commit those crimes,
I still have that...
MORGAN FREEMAN: Impulse...
PRISONER: ...capacity.
Society wouldn't be safe.
I don't have the same controls
as you do
or somebody else does.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This is an evil man.
Evil personified.
Neuroscientists say that
his behavior is a result of
bad neural wiring.
But the question is, even so,
does he not still have a choice?
Can he choose not to commit
a heinous crime?
Psychopaths are at the extreme
of human behavior.
But we all face the choice
to do good or do evil.
♪♪
And for thousands of years,
we've battled those urges.
♪♪
I've come to Luxor,
capital of ancient Egypt.
Egyptologist Salima Ikram
is going to show me one of
the oldest depictions
of our struggle to choose
between good and evil.
So, right over there?
SALIMA IKRAM: Mm-hmm. Yes.
All the east, and to the part
on the other side of the Nile,
east of the Nile, was always
the land of the living.
♪♪
And then over here, you have the
land of the dead, on the west.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Literally.
All those are tombs.
SALIMA IKRAM: Yep.
All of those are tombs,
and I want to show you
one in particular.
MORGAN FREEMAN: These are
the tombs of the nobles,
just around the corner
from the Valley of the Kings,
where Tutankhamun was buried
more than 3 millennia ago.
SALIMA IKRAM:
So here's the tomb of Menna.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Menna.
SALIMA IKRAM: Uh-huh.
Here we go.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Oh!
Oh!
Look at that!
SALIMA IKRAM: There we are.
That's Menna, over there, and he
was a scribe for the god Amun.
And he oversaw the lands of the
god Amun, and also over here,
you can see this big harvest
that he's checking out.
MORGAN FREEMAN: It's great.
They're harvesting their wheat.
This artwork is 3,500 years old?
SALIMA IKRAM: Yep. 1370 BC.
And it hasn't been touched up.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Those are his scribes.
He's overseeing the scribes.
SALIMA IKRAM: Precisely.
MORGAN FREEMAN: A-ha, ha, ha.
SALIMA: And...
MORGAN FREEMAN: When I get back
to the States,
I'm gonna be
a hieroglyphic expert.
SALIMA IKRAM: You are, indeed.
Now, let me show you
a little something
about how Menna gets
to go to the afterlife.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Menna's tomb
includes a remarkable feature
that Salima tells me
I have to see.
♪♪
A scene where Menna
would be judged on the balance
of good and evil he had done.
SALIMA IKRAM:
This all funerary procession.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay.
SALIMA IKRAM: You can see
his coffin being brought here.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's his coffin, there?
SALIMA IKRAM:
Uh-huh. That's his coffin.
And then he's brought here,
finally,
in front of the god Osiris.
♪♪
This is Menna.
And then here, you have
a complete innovation.
It's the first time
you'll ever see this, really,
in a private tomb, and that is
the weighing of the heart scene.
And here he is being judged
to see if he was good
or if he was evil.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
In front of Osiris,
the god of the Underworld,
Menna's heart is weighed against
the goddess of truth, Ma'at...
while Thoth, her husband,
writes down the judgement.
SALIMA IKRAM: So it's almost
as if it's a Cliff Note for him.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
(chuckles) Gotcha.
Cliff Notes.
SALIMA IKRAM: So, if you're
lying or stealing or cheating
or doing anything evil,
the whole thing is the fact that
it reflects on your heart.
MORGAN FREEMAN: All of that
weighs on your heart,
your heart gets heavy...
SALIMA IKRAM: Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
I have a heavy heart.
SALIMA IKRAM: Yes.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
And with a heavy heart,
you're not gonna go to heaven.
SALIMA IKRAM: That's right.
You won't be able
to have lift-off, basically.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Ah.
Just -- Good. Well-put.
(chuckles)
So in this depiction,
his heart is indeed in balance.
SALIMA IKRAM: Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right?
-SALIMA IKRAM: Right.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: So he's cool.
-SALIMA: Totally cool.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: All right.
SALIMA IKRAM: Good to go
into the afterlife.
MORGAN FREEMAN: You would think
that that would be
the beginning,
at least somehow,
of the Judeo-Christian ethic,
as it were,
in terms of good and evil.
SALIMA IKRAM: Basically,
I think that modern religion
has its roots
in this idea of morality,
and that anything bad
you do is reflected
and can be judged in some way.
The Egyptians were very literal.
They said you can judge it
by your heart.
But even now, when,
you know, you can say,
"He is pure of heart,"
it means he's a good person.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right. Right.
In the centuries after Menna,
the idea of eternal reward
for turning one's back on evil
spread throughout
Egyptian society.
And from there, it may have fed
into Judaism, Christianity,
and Islam.
♪♪
The weighing of the heart
assumes that
fear of consequences is
the only thing that keeps us
on a righteous path.
Which makes me wonder...
are we inherently good?
Or inherently evil?
♪♪
In fact, that question
is at the very root
of the Christian faith.
♪♪
The early leaders of the church
trace our tendency to sin
back to Adam and Eve,
who ate the forbidden fruit --
original sin.
♪♪
I've come to meet Baptist
reverend and theologian
Kutter Callaway to find out
whether original sin means
we are all evil at heart.
REV. CALLAWAY: Hi.
Pleasure to meet you.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
-REV. CALLAWAY: Have a seat.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
Which book were you reading?
REV. CALLAWAY: The first
few chapters of Genesis.
MORGAN FREEMAN: That is exactly
what I'm gonna talk about,
and what I'm want to talk about
is sin.
What is original sin?
REV. CALLAWAY:
Well, it's a good question.
The Christian tradition -- it
kind of coined "original sin."
Some primal desire
that we all have,
that's a very basic
human urge or impulse.
Because Adam sinned,
that original sin was passed on
from one generation
to the next -- perpetuated,
generation after generation
after generation.
MORGAN FREEMAN: I have recently
spent some time with a person
who we could say personifies...
REV. CALLAWAY: Mm. Mm-hmm.
MORGAN FREEMAN: ...evil.
And you just say,
"Why did you do these things?"
And he would say,
"I just felt like it.
And beyond that, I don't know."
Now that's inherent evil.
Well, isn't it?
REV. CALLAWAY: What you saw,
you could name that as
a sort of demonic thing.
MORGAN FREEMAN: This is demonic.
REV. CALLAWAY: It's demonic.
But I think it's important
for us to acknowledge that
that there is a little bit
of him in all of us.
There's something inherent in us
that seems to bend itself
towards death and violence.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Is there a Devil?
Or is that just a metaphor?
REV. CALLAWAY: It is a metaphor,
and also, the Devil is real.
♪♪
There's a lot of different
forms -- you know,
Devils with pitchforks to
goblins and ghouls, et cetera.
In the New Testament, you even
get Jesus interacting with
Satan, and yet at the same time,
you have Jesus talking
to one of his disciples
and saying at one point,
Get behind me, Satan.
So it seems even Jesus
is dealing with both
an actual presence -- what
we might say is a personified
evil, and at the same time,
that we can be satanic, demonic,
in our own desire to steer away
from what God wants.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: We are born with
the capacity for evil inside us.
Most of us struggle our whole
lives to resist the temptation
to do wrong.
But that could be another source
of evil in our lives --
the people who brought us
into this world...
PRISONER:
My dad was an alcoholic.
MORGAN FREEMAN: ...whether
they are living or dead.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Why does
evil exist in the world?
Is it because we all
have evil inside us,
or does it come
from somewhere else?
♪♪
I've travelled to India to
understand what Hindus believe
is a source of evil --
the unhappy souls
of their ancestors.
I'm in the city of Varanasi to
visit the temple Pishach Mochan,
where exorcisms go on
all day long.
♪♪
My guide,
Varanasi resident and educator
V.A. Vidya, introduces me
to the head priest,
and to see the
goblin, or Pischach,
who is said to live here.
V.A. VIDYA: So there is
the goblin, for 15 years,
just wandering around in pain,
so he finally prayed to Shiva.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
The great Hindu god Shiva
puts the goblin through
a purifying ritual,
which ends
with a dip in the nearby pond.
That instantly
cures him of his disease.
In return, Shiva orders
the goblin to protect people
near the pond from
any other evil spirits.
V.A. VIDYA: Now Shiva asks,
"Okay, you are cured,
so you are going to help
all the people who suffer
being possessed by evil."
MORGAN FREEMAN: So this is
a benign goblin.
V.A. VIDYA: Yes.
He's a benign goblin.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Now this pond
has become a place of healing,
a haven for people who feel
their lives are haunted
by an evil presence.
V.A. VIDYA: So here,
look at the water.
It's brackish, but people
believe that something is --
MORGAN FREEMAN: Brackish?
Is that a term for it?
V.A. VIDYA: Yeah.
So, you know, the typical theme
is water cleanses everything.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay.
I'm gonna buy that.
V.A. VIDYA: (laughs)
♪♪
Hindus believe that when
someone's death is traumatic
or unhappy,
their soul can become angry
and haunt the lives of their
children or other relatives.
This can cause mental
or physical illness
even financial troubles.
♪♪
The correct rituals, however,
can liberate the unhappy soul
and free the living.
♪♪
What's going on over there?
V.A. VIDYA: That's the Shaman.
He is preparing.
MORGAN FREEMAN: He's exorcising?
V.A. VIDYA: Yes.
MAN: (chanting)
V.A. VIDYA:
Their conversation --
no one can understand.
It's done in a --
MORGAN FREEMAN: What,
they're speaking in tongues?
V.A. VIDYA: He's speaking
in tongues, yes.
And then the patient responds --
either screams
or responds in tongues.
Or they have spasms.
And then finally,
they believe that it's released.
MAN: (groans)
MORGAN FREEMAN: Most of the
people who come here don't need
a full-on exorcism
like this man.
(praying in native language)
The Shukla family
are typical clients.
They are having money troubles,
and they worry that the spirits
of their ancestors
may be the cause.
(praying in native language)
V.A. VIDYA:
This is a departure ritual
for the spirit
that is wandering around.
(chanting)
MORGAN FREEMAN: What gives you
the impression,
what makes one think,
"Oh, my parents' spirits
are not settled"?
V.A. VIDYA:
I think personal troubles.
Them, something is
causing them trouble,
whenever there's
a financial loss in the family,
and frequent sicknesses,
bad dreams, and --
so everything is associated
with this procession.
(praying in native language)
MORGAN FREEMAN: To make
their ancestors' spirits happy,
the Shuklas must
prepare them a good meal --
one that is blessed
by the priest.
V.A. VIDYA: They offer honey,
clarified butter, banana,
fruits, and everything.
And this would be offered
to dead soul,
which is gonna eat the food,
so this will be a special meal.
♪♪
After receiving all the food,
they offer a lamp
and an umbrella
and a pair of shoes.
So here, every departed soul is
treated like a real human being.
MORGAN FREEMAN: The spirit?
V.A. VIDYA: Yes. The spirit is
treated like a real human being.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: The ancestors
receive what they need
for their journey
in the afterlife.
After the Shuklas offer the food
to the sacred pond
and nail a coin
to this holy tree...
♪♪
...the unhappy souls
of their ancestors are set free,
and the shadow of evil lifts.
♪♪
In Christianity, you've got
the Devil and you've got God,
you've got good,
you've got evil.
Don't seem to have that
going on in Hinduism.
V.A. VIDYA: In Hinduism,
there's no dichotomy between
good and evil -- the same person
can become good and evil.
In a temple like this,
even the evil is treated
very respectfully
and is treated caringly.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's very interesting.
Very interesting concept.
Because I think it sort of
frees us up to be better.
V.A. VIDYA:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
There's always, at the end,
the hope.
The hope that even the evil
can be liberated.
And evil can be purified,
like taking a dip into the pond.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
So I've been watching people
in these temples -- I mean,
crowds of people -- doing ritual
after ritual, trying to stay
in the good graces of
their ancestors.
But the thing about it is,
evil is not spurned.
Evil is thought of as
a spirit that needs help.
Just...needs to find peace.
Cool.
♪♪
Hindus want to guide evil
into becoming good.
That idea is also the basis
of another faith...
♪♪
...one of the oldest
and most influential religions
in the world,
but it's one most of us
have never heard of.
It's called Zoroastrianism.
♪♪
I've come
to Orange County, California,
to meet the president of
the temple here, Arman Ariane.
ARMAN: Welcome to California
Zoroastrian Centre.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Thank you.
Zoroastrianism began
3,500 years ago in ancient Iran.
The central symbol of the faith
is fire.
Today, there are just a few
small pockets of Zoroastrians
around the world,
mostly in India and Iran.
But some are here in California.
ARMAN: This is the fire temple.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This fire is always going?
ARMAN: This is a symbol
of Zoroastrianism.
The fire's always going.
It represents enlightenment,
and the more you are aware
of this world of ours,
the more you know what's ahead,
the better decisions
you can make.
It's kind of like you are
walking with a flashlight
in your hand.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Yeah. The
brighter the light in your life.
ARMAN: That's right.
MORGAN FREEMAN: How does that
tie in to Zoroastrian belief in
the separation of good and evil?
(screaming)
ARMAN: In Zarathustra's school
of thought,
you have two mentalities, which
are translated by Westerners
as spirits.
One is good, and one is bad.
They are principles.
They are a way of behaving.
So the Zoroastrian motto is
Good Thoughts, Good Words,
and Good Deeds.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Zoroastrianism
is a religion focused on
defeating evil.
♪♪
Zoroastrian priests wear clean,
white robes...
which, like their sacred flame,
represent enlightenment,
the path away from evil.
(praying in Avestan)
Prayers are still said
in the ancient Iranian language,
Avestan, which was spoken
by its founder, Zoroaster.
(praying continues)
Professor of Religion
Gregory Riley had been studying
how Zoroastrian beliefs
shaped Judaism and Christianity
and how they gave birth
to the idea of the Devil.
(screaming)
Zoroastrianism predates
the Abrahamic religions.
GREGORY RILEY:
That's right. Yeah.
Zoroaster postulated that
to defeat evil in the world,
we're gonna have to have
a cataclysmic battle.
(thunder rumbles)
(horse neighs)
And God and the Devil
are gonna fight it out.
(snarling)
MORGAN FREEMAN:
That's New Testament. That's
not in Zoroastrian, though.
GREGORY RILEY:
Yes, it is Zoroastrianism. Yeah.
And if you go to the great mass
of religions around,
there's no Devil.
The Israelites --
they lived without a Devil
until they are in Babylon.
The Jews met Zoroastrianism, and
they began to assimilate ideas.
They come back,
and the Devil begins to appear
in Jewish literature --
these ideas about the Devil
having caused that evil.
And those things
start to work on people.
So by the time
we get to Jesus' day,
they've actually created a name
for the Devil -- Beelzebub,
if you've heard that one.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: I have.
He's got a few of 'em.
-GREGORY RILEY: Yeah.
So the great competitor of Jesus
in our New Testament
and Gospels.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
This is now a new take.
GREGORY RILEY: That's right.
Jews make it their own.
Christians make it their own.
Islam makes it their own.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: But just
as the idea of the Devil
in Christianity
evolved from ancient beliefs,
modern Zoroastrianism
has evolved, too.
For many Zoroastrians,
the Devil is no longer
a real demonic figure.
It's an internal combatant --
the struggle
between good and evil
is one that takes place
in the mind.
♪♪
GREGORY RILEY:
So the Zoroastrian motto
is Good Thoughts, Good Words,
and Good Deeds,
and the order is very important
because you start
with a thought,
you talk it with a mentor
before you take any actions.
This way, you don't
get yourself in trouble.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
And there is no...Satan.
There is no Devil.
Something outside,
influencing us.
GREGORY RILEY: Right.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
Meaning, therefore,
that God is resident
in each of us.
GREGORY RILEY: Each of us.
♪♪
(praying in Avestan)
The Zoroastrian school
of thought is not something
in the past or future, but what
we can do at this very time.
All our problems
in the world are man-made.
Therefore,
they should be solved by man.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Can be. Must be.
GREGORY RILEY: To blame it
on a supernatural force is not
a Zoroastrian notion.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Right.
Zoroastrians believe that good
and evil exists within us all
and we must make
the choice for good.
Each one of us has to purge evil
from within us every day
by...doing good.
Doing the right thing.
Purging the world of evil
is not the work
of messiahs, kings, prophets.
It's the work of each one of us.
Be we tailor, butcher,
salesman, actor, whoever we are.
I like that.
But is it really possible
to conquer evil without
the threat of a real devil?
Without the threat
of eternal punishment?
♪♪
In New Zealand, psychologist
Jesse Bering believes
we need supernatural beings
to keep us on the right track.
(chatter)
JESSE BERING: Are you guys ready
to play a game?
CHILDREN: Yeah!
JESSE BERING: Jesse devised an
experiment to test this theory.
BOY: Oh.
JESSE BERING: All right.
Why don't you guys make a circle
and sit in front of me here, and
I'll go over the rules for you.
See this piece of tape?
The first rule is that
you can't step over the line.
The second rule is that
you've got to throw
with your back to the dartboard.
So you can kind of go like this,
and do the best that you can.
Oh. See?
♪♪
Oh! (chuckles)
Not that easy, is it?
You're gonna be playing
this game one at a time,
and the person that gets the
most points on the dartboard
gets a very special prize
at the end of the day.
All right, we'll see
you guys in a little bit.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse watches
through hidden cameras to see
if the children cheat.
JESSE BERING: So here
we've got a little boy,
and you can almost see
the machinations in his mind.
Let's see if he does it.
You can hardly blame
a 6-year-old for doing that.
He really wants the prize and
thinks he can get away with it.
And it's the normal
child response.
♪♪
This little girl, look at her,
she's going right over the line.
And she's putting several balls
on the board itself,
and she's checking now to see if
anybody's actually watching her
or can see what she's just done.
They think
they're alone in the room,
and why not cheat
if you can get away with it
and nobody's watching?
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: But what if
someone was watching?
Jesse runs the exact
same experiment on a new group
of children and an invisible
supernatural being.
JESSE BERING:
Now, before we begin,
I wanted to introduce you guys
to somebody really special,
who's in the room
with us right now.
Now, her name is Princess Alice.
Have any of you ever heard
of Princess Alice before?
She's a very friendly
magical princess,
and she's got
a very special ability --
she can make herself invisible.
♪♪
Princess Alice is sitting
in that chair right now.
So you guys go upstairs for now,
and then we're gonna bring you
each down individually
to play the game.
MORGAN FREEMAN: With the kids
believing they are under
the gaze
of an invisible princess,
Jesse sees something remarkable.
JESSE BERING:
Now, this little girl --
She's been pretty good so far.
Clearly not interested
in breaking the rules.
So here we've got a little girl
who's actually
touching the chair
to see if maybe she can feel
Princess Alice sitting there.
GIRL: Princess Alice?
JESSE BERING: Oh, she's
saying, "Princess Alice,"
so she's clearly
not cheating here.
JESSE: That's the power
of belief, you know?
That these kids have never
heard of her before,
but all of a sudden,
she becomes real in their minds.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse's results
are always the same.
JESSE BERING: So what we've seen
after testing hundreds of kids
with this study is that
kids that are told
that Princess Alice
is in the room with them
when they're left alone
are significantly less likely
to cheat.
♪♪
She's doing the same thing that
any supernatural agent or god
would do in a given society --
she is watching them,
she cares about their
social behavior, and ultimately,
at least, the implicit
assumption is that somehow
she will act if they violate
one of the rules.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Jesse's research
suggests that we need to believe
we're being watched
to eliminate selfish behavior
to keep evil in check.
JESSE BERING:
So the proverbial question is,
would you rob a bank
if you thought that nobody
could possibly know
that you've done that?
And I think if we're honest
with ourselves,
many of us would walk in there
and actually take
all that currency.
An all-seeing, all-knowing,
all-powerful interventionist,
moralistic deity
that helps steer people in
the direction of good behavior.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
The reward of heaven
and the threat of
eternal punishment in hell
keep us on the right track.
But what about those
who have succumbed to evil?
Can faith lead us to redemption?
Or does evil mark us for life?
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN:
I'm travelling the world
to discover why people believe
evil exists.
Christians, Jews,
and Muslims believe it's part
of the human condition
to be tempted to do wrong.
Many faiths urge us
to fight temptation...
to put the greater good
ahead of our self-interest.
But can we actually
rid ourselves of evil?
In Sarnath, India...
I witness how Tibetan Buddhists
purged themselves
of evil thoughts.
(all chanting)
The monks here at the
Vajra Vidya monastery perform
daily chanting rituals.
(chanting continues)
The music puts them in
a meditative state of mind.
(chanting continues)
Buddhists believe the urge to
do evil stems from our ignorance
of how our minds work.
(horns sounding)
The ritual helps these
young monks locate the source
of those bad thoughts...
so that they can understand
their cause and overcome them.
(siren wails)
But not everyone wants
to fight their inner demons.
♪♪
There are plenty of people who
seem to be hell-bent on
doing bad things.
(gunshots)
Is there any way to change them?
♪♪
I've asked Kent Kiehl,
the neuroscientist who
studies psychopaths,
to meet me again.
I want to know
if his brain scans
give us a way to combat evil.
I mean, we always accept evil
as...how it is.
It just is. There's nothing
we can do about it.
But could these brain scans
be used maybe to intercept
some young people
before they get going on this?
DR. KIEHL: I think they can.
When we understand the systems
of the brain that are different
in people who commit
these bad crimes,
it gives us an opportunity
to try and develop
a treatment for that.
It's like, if you, you know,
if I injure my arm and my --
this muscle gets atrophied, just
like these certain areas of
the brain are atrophied, I might
be able to develop a treatment
program that remediates
that atrophy and fix it.
MORGAN FREEMAN: At about
what age range would you think,
as an expert,
you would have to start looking?
DR. KIEHL: Following Sandy Hook
elementary-school shooting
in the United States,
we were asked by the parents
who lost their children there
to do that study
to analyze the brains of kids
that we've studied who've killed
other people versus
kids in prison who have not,
and when we did that analysis,
I wasn't sure that we would
find anything that different,
but we really did.
Certain areas
of the temporal lobes,
of the emotional areas of
the brain, were underdeveloped,
where they hadn't achieved
a normal development.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
So when you say "kids,"
what are you talking about?
DR. KIEHL: 14, 5, 16. Yeah.
So that's the kids
we were working with.
Unfortunately, those kids
had killed about 16 people.
The neuroscience today is about
10, 11, 12, we think,
that we could help identify and
separate kids that are problems
versus kids
that are just disruptive
and are gonna grow out of it.
If you were a judge
and you wanted to know
is this a high-risk kid
or a low-risk kid, we can say,
"This is a high-risk kid."
We now have a tool
that can help us understand
or can help predict
the worst type of things
that we all want to prevent --
a homicide, a death.
What we really want to be able
to do is get better and better
at predicting, and then
that'll help us be better
and better at preventing.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Science may help
identify those who are most
prone to evil.
♪♪
But how do you turn your back
on a life of evil?
♪♪
I've come to Los Angeles to
meet a man who wiped all trace
of evil from his life.
TATTOOIST: All right, buddy,
you are all done.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm looking
for Brian -- Brian Widner.
Morgan Freeman.
BRIAN WIDNER: Brian Widner.
How are you?
MORGAN FREEMAN: I'm very well
indeed. How are you?
BRIAN WIDNER:
I am doing well, sir.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Tell me
something about yourself.
I hear terrible things.
BRIAN: Well, for 16 years,
I was a Neo-Nazi skinhead.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
A Neo-Nazi skinhead.
BRIAN: Yes, sir. I was in
multiple skinhead gangs.
I was an enforcer in one, did
some incredibly terrible things
to a lot of undeserving people.
I was an evil person.
I wanted to hurt the world.
That's all I wanted to do.
I was -- I had a sense of just
utter destruction for everybody.
That was my driving goal.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Let me ask you,
how did you get to the street,
and why were you on the street?
BRIAN WIDNER:
I fell in with a gang,
basically, is what happened.
I fell in with the wrong people.
(shouting "Sieg Heil")
I was 14 years old,
and I was running the streets.
These guys gave me a place
to stay, they bought me beer,
made me feel accepted
and wanted.
And after about my 10th year,
I kind of realized
this is a subculture
of degenerates.
I realized
I'm not superior to anybody.
In fact, I was pretty well
a lower form of humanity,
you know?
MORGAN FREEMAN: Okay. Now,
we're up to 10 years after
you've been running around
with these people,
and you've had an epiphany.
Tell me a little bit about that.
BRIAN WIDNER:
Some really just magical things
just kind of happened
out of nowhere.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Like?
BRIAN WIDNER: Well I went to
a skinhead concert in 2005,
and I met a woman there.
And by the January of 2006,
we got married.
By February, she was pregnant.
It was, I had to start
taking a hard look at
what I was doing with myself.
I'm bringing this child
into a world,
and I told 'em I can't
do this anymore, I'm done.
I got to take care of my son.
So during that time, I made
the change on the inside,
I actually had to make a
physical change on the outside.
-MORGAN FREEMAN: How was that?
-BRIAN WIDNER: Let me show you.
That is what
I used to look like.
I mean, my neck
was completely sleeved-out,
my face was sleeved-out.
I looked the part.
I couldn't escape the way
I looked on the outside,
even though I had already
changed on the inside.
I got in contact with the
Southern Poverty Law Center.
They actually set it up to where
I was able to get the tattoos
taken off my face.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Well, now,
I mean, I can see little
indications of scars, that,
more like you were maybe
in a fight at some point,
and it healed up.
It doesn't look like you had
all this stuff removed.
How long a process was that?
BRIAN WIDNER:
It took about 2 1/2 years.
There was 25, 26 treatments,
something like that.
Every two weeks,
I was getting laser-zapped.
It was ungodly, excruciating.
My face was constantly swollen.
I looked like the Elephant Man.
It was a bad time.
And here's actually a picture
of me during the process.
MORGAN FREEMAN: That looked like
you got punched in the eye.
BRIAN WIDNER: Yes. It looks like
I was a bad boxer, yeah.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Yeah.
(both laugh)
Sort of like paying dues.
BRIAN WIDNER:
I very much looked at it
as a penance, actually, yes.
I took the pain to --
as a reminder that
I've caused enough,
so I might as well have some.
MORGAN FREEMAN: Can you describe
to me your sense of yourself
in those times,
in terms of evil?
BRIAN: Looking back,
I had absolutely no remorse.
I was borderline sociopathic.
I had no feelings.
I wanted to hurt the world.
When I was going through
the tattoo removal, I found God.
Before that, I was a pagan,
and my life was always dark.
I always had a hole in my soul,
I guess,
would be the best
way to put that.
I don't know exactly
what his name is
or if it's even Judeo-Christian.
There is a godly presence
in the universe,
and it made itself known to me.
It helped me realize
that there is good and evil
in all of us, and my goal now
is basically when I just leave
this world a better place than
when I got into it, you know?
Just try to be a good person.
That's all I can do,
and I hope that's good enough.
MORGAN FREEMAN:
We have...sometimes...
thoughts that evil just exists
and there's no hope.
But you represent
the hope of the world.
That transformation --
that complete transformation
that you, yourself, made.
BRIAN WIDNER: Absolutely.
MORGAN FREEMAN: And for you to
be able to just completely turn
yourself around like that,
it is very, very encouraging.
And I'm honored to talk to you.
BRIAN WIDNER: Thank you.
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: Well,
I've got to tell you something
I've been noticing.
You're a good-looking man.
BRIAN WIDNER: Well, thank you.
And so are you, by the way.
(both laugh)
♪♪
MORGAN FREEMAN: The outward
stains of Brian's past
have been wiped away.
But I'm struck by
the astonishing difference
in his two lives on the inside.
That was evil in his heart.
His admission.
Deep and remorseless.
But, he says,
the birth of his son
and a dawning belief in God
is what purged him of evil.
If Brian can do that, it gives
us hope that people can change.
Evil can be contained.
♪♪
This hope is at the core
of the Christian faith.
MINISTER: We have gathered today
on this riverbank
to perform one of the oldest
traditions in our faith --
that of baptism.
MORGAN FREEMAN: People sin, but
those sins can be washed away.
MINISTER: We follow
Jesus' example today
as we baptize Austin, Katie,
Abby, Norman, and Chris.
These five do this as a sign
of repentance
and forgiveness of sin.
Baptism points the direction
to where we are headed,
and it's a new start on life.
MORGAN FREEMAN: The Bible tells
us Adam and Eve knew no evil
until they ate
the forbidden fruit.
Almost every faith tells
the story of how evil begins.
Whether we believe
it comes from unhappy souls...
the Devil himself...
or the Devil within...
(thunder crashes)
...we all eventually
come face-to-face with evil.
But I think
we need to know evil,
because in spite of
all the suffering it causes,
it drives us to do good.
Without evil, how would we have
ever developed
our unique
human characteristics --
the ability to express kindness,
mercy, forgiveness?
♪♪
-- Captions by VITAC --