The Civil War (1990): Season 1, Episode 2 - A Very Bloody Affair (1862) - full transcript

MAN: THIS THING--
I THINK I WAS SAYING...

SECOND MAN:
MARCH 28, 1987.

"AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES."

PROJECT TITLE: "CIVIL WAR."

CAMERA ROLL 173,
SOUND ROLL 31.

INTERVIEW WITH SHELBY FOOTE.

RECORDED FLAT,
7 1/2 IPS,

-8 DB, REFERENCE TONE
TO FOLLOW.

LOCATION:
MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE.

INTERVIEW
WITH SHELBY FOOTE.

SOUND'S ROLLING,
CAMERA TEST.



CUT.

SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

CAMERA'S ROLLING.
SLATE? TAKE ONE.

KEN BURNS: SHELBY,

SUMTER SEEMS TO BE
A—-A CURIOUS BEGINNING

FOR A WAR, FOR
AVERY BLOODY WAR.

CAN YOU--CAN YOU
PAINT IT FOR ME,

TELL ME ABOUT SUMTER?

UH...

THERE WAS NOTHING
ALL THAT, UH, UNUSUAL

ABOUT IT AS A FORT.

UH, IT WAS A PENTAGON,
WHICH IS KIND OF INTERESTING.

WE HAVE PENTAGONS NOWADAYS.

IT WAS...|T—-|T WAS
A LONG HISTORY



ABOUT HOW THEY MOVED
FROM ONE FORT TO THE OTHER

AN D--AND ALL THAT.

BUT SUMTER--
THE UNUSUAL THING ABOUT IT IS

HOW IT STOOD THROUGHOUT
THE WAR UNDER BOMBARDMENT

UNTIL FINALLY
IT WAS JUST RUBBLE.

IT WAS A LITTLE BIT
LIKE WHAT WE DID

TO MONTE CASSINO IN ITALY.

IT WAS A—-|T BECAME
AMORE EFFECTIVE FORTRESS

THE MORE THEY KNOCKED IT
TO PIECES.

UH, IT'S A STORY ALL ITS OWN.

THE WHOLE STORY OF SUMTER
THROUGHOUT THE WAR

WOULD BE INTERESTING, BEGINNING
WITH THE BOMBARDMENT.

SO MANY WELL-KNOWN
BRITISH--JESUS.

UH, ENGLISH, AMERICAN,
UNION GENERALS WERE AT SUMTER.

IT'S SURPRISING
HOW MANY THERE WERE.

THE POINT I'M TRYING TO
HIT IS THAT NOBODY WAS--

NOBODY WAS KILLED
THERE, TOO.

NOBODY WAS KILLED UNTIL
THEY WERE FIRING THE SALUTE

TO THE COLORS
AS THEY RETIRED,

AND THAT WAS THE FIRST MAN
TO DIE IN THE CIVIL WAR.

A SOLDIER WAS KILLED
BY A POWDER EXPLOSION

DURING THE FIRING OF THE,
UH, SALUTE TO THE COLORS

AS THEY LEFT THE FORT.

YOU SPOKE ONCE ABOUT--

WE REALLY BLUNDERED
INTO WAR,

THAT ONE--PEOPLE THOUGHT
THAT WE WERE GOING

TO WIPE UP
WITH A HANDKERCHIEF.

CAN YOU TELL ME
THAT STORY?

UH, THERE IS A--A...

A CONGRESSMAN, I BELIEVE,

FROM ALABAMA--|'VE
FORGOTTEN WHERE FROM--

WHO SAID THERE
WOULD BE NO WAR.

AND HE OFFERED TO WIPE UP ALL
THE BLOOD THAT WOULD BE SHED,

UH, WITH A POCKET HANDKERCHIEF.

UH, THAT--THAT WAS
HIS PREDICTION.

I'VE ALWAYS SAID SOMEONE
COULD GET A PhD.

BY CALCULATING HOW MANY POCKET
HANDKERCHIEFS IT WOULD TAKE

TO WIPE UP ALL THE BLOOD
THAT WAS SHED.

BE A LOT OF HANDKERCHIEFS.

WHAT DID LINCOLN'S
ELECTION DO IN 1860?

WHAT DID IT FINALLY DO?

|T--|T DEPENDS ON WHETHER
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IT

FROM A NORTHERN POINT OF VIEW
OR THE SOUTHERN POINT OF VIEW.

IN SOUTHERN MINDS, IT MEANT
THAT THE UNION WAS GOING

IN DIRECTIONS THAT THEY
DID NOT CARE TO GO.

SOME OF THAT WAS SIMPLY HAVING
THEIR NOSES OUT OF JOINT.

UH, I'VE FORGOTTEN
THE FIGURES, BUT, UH,

OF THE FIRST 15 PRESIDENTS,
SOMETHING LIKE 10

HAD BEEN SOUTHERN.

NOW YOU'RE GETTING A BUNCH
OF NORTHERN PRESIDENTS.

BUT MOST PARTICULARLY,

THEY SAW THE COUNTRY...
TELEPHONE RINGS

AS BEING RADICALIZED

OR, UM...PERHAPS BETTER PUT,

BECOMING, UH, "ABOLITIONIST."

UH, AND IT SEEMED TO THEM TO
THREATEN THEIR VERY EXISTENCE--

WHY DON'T YOU GO BACK
AND SAY THAT?

TH EY—-TH EY SAW
THE CAN--THE COUNTRY

BEING RADICALIZED,
AND SORT OF--

IT'S 'CAUSE OF
THE PHONE.

RIGHT. UH...

SOUTHERNERS SAW
THE ELECTION OF LINCOLN

AS A SIGN THAT THE UNION WAS
ABOUT TO BE RADICALIZED

AND THAT THEY WERE ABOUT
TO BE TAKEN IN DIRECTIONS

THEY DID NOT CARE TO GO.

THE ABOLITIONIST ASPECT
OF IT WAS VERY STRONG,

AND, UH, THEY FIGURED
THEY WERE ABOUT TO LOSE

WHAT THEY CALLED THEIR
"PROPERTY" AND FACED RUIN.

UP UNTIL THAT TIME,

SOUTHERN CAPITALISTS
HAD BELIEVED

THAT THEY HAD A COMPANIONSHIP
WITH NORTHERN CAPITALISTS,

AND THIS SAWA DIVISION
IN THOSE RANKS, TOO.

UH, SOUTHERN CAPITALISTS
SAW THAT THEIR PROBLEMS

WERE VERY DIFFERENT
FROM NORTHERN CAPITALISTS'

AND THAT THEY WERE
FIXING TO BE "SOLVED,"

80 TO SPEAK, IN WAYS
THEY DID NOT WELCOME.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE
GREAT CAUSES OF SECESSION.

THE MEN HAD AN EXPRESSION
WHEN THEY WENT TO WAR.

I MEAN, THESE WERE
YOUNG FARM BOYS,

NORTH AND SOUTH,
ABOUT AN ELEPHANT.

WHAT--WHAT IS
THAT STORY?

OH, THEY SIMPLY, UH--
THE "ELEPHANT" WAS

THE THING THEY SPOKE OF
AS COMBAT EXPERIENCE.

THEY CALLED ABOUT
"SEE THE ELEPHANT,"

OR SOMETIMES THEY WOULD CALL IT
"MEET THE ELEPHANT."

UH, WHY THEY SETTLED
ON THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S ALWAYS HARD TO FIGURE OUT
THE SLANG IN WARTIME.

WE HAD MANY SUCH THINGS
IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR

AND, I'M SURE,
IN ALL OTHER WARS.

BUT IT WAS CALLED, "YOU'RE
GOING TO SEE THE ELEPHANT."

"YOU'RE GOING TO MEET
THE ELEPHANT."

BUT IT JUST MEANT A MONSTER.

THERE WAS
GREAT EXCITEMENT

ABOUT THIS WAR WHEN--
AFTER SUMTER WAS FOUGHT.

UM, CAN YOU COLOR

THE EARLY MOBILIZATION
FOR US?

I MEAN, THERE REALLY
WAS EXUBERANCE.

PEOPLE WANTED TO FIGHT.

WELL, UH, YOU HAD A COUPLE
OF CONTRIBUTING THINGS.

IT HAPPENED SOMETIMES
IN THE EARLY DAYS

OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR
THAT A—-A--

A NATIONAL GUARD UNIT
WOULD BE CALLED OUT.

AND THAT MEANT THAT,
UH, 200 OR 300 YOUNG MEN

FROM THIS TOWN
WOULD BE LEAVING,

AND THEY USUALLY HAD
A BANQUET TO LEAVE

AND THERE WAS--PEOPLE
MADE SPEECHES TO THEM,

TELLING THEM TO KEEP
THEIR POWDER DRY AND ALL THAT.

AND THAT HAPPENED
ALL OVER THE COUNTRY,

NORTH AND SOUTH,
AT THE TIME OF THIS WAR.

MILITIA UNITS, OR JUST
VOLUNTEERS IN LARGE NUMBERS,

UH, ASSEMBLED
AND WENT OFF TO WAR.

AND THERE WAS
A—-A--A...A FEELING

THAT THEY WERE HEADING
INTO A GREAT EXPERIENCE.

THERE WAS A FEELING
ON BOTH SIDES

THAT THEY WERE GOING
TO SAVE THEIR COUNTRY,

MEANING
THE TWO COUNTRIES.

UH, THERE WAS ALL
THAT EXUBERANCE, UH,

AND A SENSE OF A GREAT
ADVENTURE LYING AHEAD.

IT WAS A...|T--|T--|T--

THAT ASPECT OF IT IS, UH--
IS VERY PARTICULAR TO THAT WAR.

UH, CIVIL WARS
ARE--ARE--ARE NOTORIOUS

FOR BEING, UH,
CRUEL AND BLOODY.

UH, AND THAT SIDE OF IT
HADN'T COME TO THEM.

IT WAS IF THEY WERE
GOING TO ENGAGE

IN A FAMILY ARGUMENT
VOCIFEROUSLY.

AND, UH, THERE WAS
THAT--THAT TO IT.

AND THEY DIDN'T THINK IT WAS
GOING TO LAST VERY LONG?

NO. NO ONE THOUGHT
IT WOULD LAST LONG.

NO ONE, ON EITHER SIDE,
THOUGHT IT WOULD LAST LONG.

THOSE FEW INDIVIDUALS
WHO SAID THAT IT WOULD--

UM, TECUMSEH SHERMAN,
FOR INSTANCE, UH--

WERE ACTUALLY JUDGED TO BE
INSANE FOR MAKING PREDICTIONS

ABOUT CASUALTIES,
WHICH WERE ACTUALLY LOW.

WHERE WAS YOUR MAN
FORREST IN 1861

WHEN THE WAR BROKE OUT?
AND REMEMBER,

|--| DON'T KNOW WHO
I'M TALKING ABOUT.

UH, FORREST WAS
RIGHT HERE IN MEMPHIS.

HE WAS A MEMBER OF
THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN,

A—-A MAN OF
CONSIDERABLE WEALTH,

WORTH ABOUT
A MILLION DOLLARS.

THE WHOLE NOTION THAT FORREST
WAS AN |LL|TERATE COUNTRYMAN

WHO CAME INTO THE WAR, UH,
|S--|S VERY MUCH MISTAKEN.

UH, IF YOU HEARD
FORREST SPEAK, UH,

YOU MIGHT ASSUME THAT
HE WAS NOT VERY SMART

OR CERTAINLY NOT EDUCATED.

UH, YOU MIGHT THINK
THE SAME THING OF ME.

UH, FORREST SAID--
WHAT HE PROBABLY SAID WAS,

"I ALWAYS TRY TO GET THERE
FUST WITH THE MOST."

UH, AND WHEN HE SAID, "FUST,"
THAT WOULD INCLINE YOU

TO THINK THAT HE PROBABLY
WAS NOT WELL-EDUCATED.

UH, HE WAS NOT WELL-EDUCATED
IN A FORMAL SENSE,

BUT HE HAD ENOUGH BUSINESS SENSE
TO MAKE A MILLION DOLLARS

WHEN A MILLION DOLLARS WAS
A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY.

I'M PARTICULARLY STRUCK

BYA KIND OF CLOSENESS
AND CAMARADERIE

AMONG MEN THAT'S
VERY MOVING AND POIGNANT.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT?

I MEAN, EVEN IF IT'S JUST
RESTATING WHAT I SAID?

UH, THE CAMARADERIE AMONG
THE SOLDIERS ON BOTH SIDES,

UH, WAS ATHING THAT, UH,
WAS BOUND TO DEVELOP.

UH, THOSE MEN LIVED TOGETHER.

THEIR LIVES DEPENDED
ON EACH OTHER.

UH...|N A GREEN UNIT,

YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK
TO YOUR LEFT AND RIGHT

TO SEE WHETHER THE OTHER MEN
ARE KEEPING UP WITH YOU.

IN A SEASONED UNIT,
WHERE PEOPLE HAD SPENT

A GREAT DEAL OF TIME TOGETHER,
YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT,

UH, AND YOU LIVED
OUT OF BATTLE,

UH, IN VERY, VERY CLOSE
PROXIMITY, INCLUDING--

IN THE CONFEDERATE ARMY,
AT LEAST--TO YOUR OFFICERS.

UH, THEY WERE REAL,
UH, CLOSE UNITS,

ESPECIALLY THE REGIMENT.

YOU MUST REMEMBER, THEY WERE
ALL FROM THE SAME STATE.

UH, THEY HAD FOLLOWED
THE SAME FLAG.

THE BATTLES
THEY HAD FOUGHT IN,

THE NAMES WERE STITCHED
ON THAT FLAG.

AND IT WAS A GREAT DEAL
OF UNIT PRIDE,

AND I'M SURE THERE WAS
A GREAT DEAL OF SADNESS

OVER THE LOSSES
THAT THEY SUFFERED.

UH, BUT THERE WAS
A CLOSENESS AMONG THOSE MEN

THAT CAME FROM YEARS
OF BEING EXPOSED

TO THE MOST HORRENDOUS
WARFARE THAT I KNOW OF.

THERE'S ALSO A PARTICULAR
INNOCENCE, TOO.

WE'VE GOT A GUY NAMED
ORVILLE WILLIAMS--

MAN: CAN WE STOP
FOR A MINUTE?

DO YOU WANT TO STOP?
SURE. I'M SORRY.

SECOND MAN: CUT.

CAMERA'S ROLLING.
SLATE. TWO.

UM, WHAT'S
THE "HOOTY OWL" STORY?

OH.

EARLY IN THE WAR,

THERE WAS
A CONFEDERATE VETERAN,

A—-A YOUNG COUNTRY BOY,
ON GUARD DUTY.

HE'S WALKING HIS POST
IN THE WOODS.

AND THERE WAS AN OWL, UH,

UNKNOWN TO HIM,
|N ATREE NEARBY.

AND THE OWL SAID "WHOO?"

AND THE BOY, TREMBLING
WITH FEAR, SAID,

"IT'S ME, SIR, JOHN ALBERT,
A FRIEND OF YOURS."

BOTH CHUCKLE

DIDN'T THEY ALSO,
THE VETERAN TROOPS,

REALLY TRY TO SCARE
THE YOUNG RECRUITS

BY UNCOVERING--
WHAT WAS THAT?

OH, THERE'S A STORY,
UH, THAT, UH,

WHEN GRANT BEGAN
HIS SPRING CAMPAIGN IN '64,

HE TOOK WHAT THEY CALLED
"THE HEAVIES,"

THE HEAVY ARTILLERYMEN,
OUT OF THE FORTS

IN WASHINGTON
AND PUT THEM IN THE FIELD.

AND MANY OF THEM HAD BEEN
IN THE ARMY 2 OR 3 YEARS

AND NEVER HAD HEARD
ASHOT FIRED IN ANGER.

AND AS THESE UNITS
MARCHED INTO CAMP,

THEY WERE SO MUCH LARGER
THAN THE COMBAT REGIMENTS

THAT, UH, SOLDIERS
ALONGSIDE THE ROAD

USED TO SAY,
"WHAT DIVISION IS THAT?"

THERE WERE SO MANY OF THEM.

BUT THEY HAD
SOME FIERCE THINGS.

THE FIRST TIME THEY'D
GO INTO COMBAT,

THEY'D HAVE
A MANGLED CORPSE THAT--

AN ARTILLERY CASUALTY--
BY THE SIDE OF THE ROAD

WITH A BLANKET OVER HIM.

AND AS THE NEW, GREEN REGIMENTS
CAME ABREAST OF HIM,

THEY'D WHISK THE BLANKET UP--
BLANKET OFF AND SAY,

"THAT'S--TH|S IS WHAT'S
WAITING FOR YOU UP AHEAD."

NOT A--NOT A--
NOT A VERY PLEASANT STORY.

CAN YOU TELL ME
ALITTLE BIT ABOUT

THE CONTRADICTIONS
OF NEW YORK CITY'S

SYMPATHIES,
VERY, VERY BRIEFLY?

UH, NEW YORK CITY
CONTEMPLATED,

AT LEAST CONTEMPLATED,
ASECESSION FROM THE UNION, TOO,

AND THEY WANTED TO BE
DECLARED AN OPEN CITY.

UH, THERE WAS
A GREAT DEAL OF RESENTMENT

OF THE INFLUX OF, UH,
BLACKS AND IRISH AND GERMANS

UH, COMING TO THE COUNTRY
WHILE THE WAR WAS ON--

THE BACKWASH OF THE ARMIES,
AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING--

AND THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL
OF MONEY BEING MADE

AND, UH, A LOT
OF RESISTANCE TO THE DRAFT

BECAUSE MEN COULD GET
BETTER-PAYING JOBS

THAN THEY'D EVER HAD,
AND THE LAST THING THEY WANTED

WAS TO GO TO THE WAR.

THERE WAS A GOOD DEAL
OF RESENTMENT, TOO,

THAT IF YOU COULD SCRAPE UP
$300, YOU COULD BE EXEMPT.

AND ALL THOSE RESENTMENTS
FLARED UP INTO WHAT'S CALLED

THE NEW YORK
DRAFT RIOTS IN LATE '64.

MAN: MARCH 28, 1987.

"AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES."

PROJECT TITLE: "CIVIL WAR."

CAMERA ROLL 174,
SOUND ROLL 32.

INTERVIEW WITH SHELBY FOOTE.

RECORDED FLAT, 7 1/2 IPS,

-8 DB, REFERENCE TONE
TO FOLLOW.

THERE WAS A LOT OF FILM
THROUGH THAT CAMERA

WHEN WE CAME TO YOU...

SOUND'S ROLLING. SPEED.

CAMERA, PLEASE.
ROLLING. SLATE?

HOW WERE OFFICERS
SELECTED

IN THE CONFEDERATE ARMY?

CAN YOU TELL ME
ABOUT THAT?

ALL OFFICERS BELOW
THE RANK OF BRIGADIER

WERE ELECTED
BY—-BY THE TROOPS.

UH, YOU WOULD THINK
FROM THAT THAT IT WOULD BE

A POOR SYSTEM, BECAUSE MEN WOULD
SELECT OFFICERS WHO WERE EASY

ON THEM RATHER THAN WHO WERE
SKILLFUL IN COMBAT.

UH, YOU COULDN'T BE WRONGER.

UH, MEN KNEW THAT THEY
WERE ELECTING MEN

WHOM THEY WERE WILLING
TO TRUST WITH THEIR LIVES.

SO YOU BETTER BELIEVE
THEY SELECTED THE BEST MEN.

IT WAS A SYSTEM
THAT WORKED QUITE WELL.

BULL RUN.

JUST AS BRIEF AS
POSSIBLE, SET IT FOR ME.

WHAT--WHAT HAPPENED?

IT'S THIS SORT
OF COMEDY OF ERRORS,

THE WAY FIRST BATTLES
NEARLY ALWAYS ARE IN WARS.

SOUTH ERN ERS
CALL IT MANASSAS;

UH, FEDERALS CALL IT
BULL RUN.

UH, IT WAS JUST A MEETING
ENGAGEMENT BY TWO ARMIES.

THE SOUTH HAD THE ADVANTAGE
OF WAITING FOR ATTACK,

WHEREAS THE NORTHERN ARMIES
HAD TO MAKE THE APPROACH MARCH

WITH ALL ITS STRAGGLING
AND EVERYTHING AND, UH,

THEN THE SOUTH WAS
REINFORCED BY TROOPS

FROM THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY
AND WON THE BATTLE.

UH, MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT
IT MEANT THE END OF THE WAR,

IT HAD BEEN SUCH
ADECISIVE DEFEAT.

ACTUALLY, IT WOULDN'T HAVE
COUNTED AS MUCH MORE THAN

A FAIRLY HEAVY SKIRMISH
LATER ON IN THE WAR.

WILSON'S CREEK.

WILSON'S CREEK IS THE--

MAN: EXCUSE ME. LET'S, UH,
START AGAIN, PLEASE.

OK, WILSON'S CREEK.

WILSON'S CREEK IS
A SORT OF WESTERN VERSION

OF FIRST MANASSAS,
UH, VERY MUCH SIMILAR,

UH, |T...|T WAS AN ATTACK
AND A REPULSE.

UH, |T, TOO, WAS LOOKED ON
AS A MAJOR BATTLE,

BUT LATER WOULD HAVE BEEN SEEN
AS A RATHER SMALL SKIRMISH.

IT WAS
A BLOODY THING, THOUGH.

THEY STOOD THERE
AND FIRED AWAY AT EACH OTHER.

IT WAS QUITE DIFFERENT
FROM, UH, FROM FIRST MANASSAS.

AND IT'S INTERESTING
TO STUDY THE TWO BATTLES

AS ONE BEING
AN EASTERN-STYLE BATTLE

AND THE OTHER
AWESTERN-STYLE BATTLE.

THE SIMILARITIES ARE GREATER
THAN THE DIFFERENCES, THOUGH.

ARE THERE, UH--|S THERE
AWESTERN BATTLE

THAT WE FORGET IN 1861
THAT WE SHOULDN'T,

THAT'S IMPORTANT,
IN '61?

UH...THERE WEREN'T
ANY BATTLES IN '61.

UH, YOU KNOW, FIRST MANASSAS
AND WILSON CREEK ARE ABOUT

THE MAIN ONES, AND THEY
ARE NOT MAJOR BATTLES.

IT WAS JUST ALL LIKE
ROLLING YOUR SLEEVES UP

AND GETTING READY TO FIGHT.

WHAT DID MARK TWAIN DO
IN THE CIVIL WAR?

HE SKEDADDLED. HEH!

HE HAD A BRIEF PERIOD
AS A RECRUIT, WHICH HE REWROTE,

UH, MOSTLY OUT
OF HIS IMAGINATION.

UH...HE GOT OUT IS WHAT HE DID.

WHAT ABOUT BOREDOM
IN THE ARMY?

THERE'S A LOT OF BOREDOM
IN ALL ARMIES.

UM, COMBAT IS AVERY
SMALL PART OF ARMY SERVICE,

IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
THE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT IN IT.

80 IT BECOMES...EVERYTH|NG
ABOUT IT IS BORING.

UH, THE FOOD IS BAD,

THE TIME ON YOUR HANDS IS BAD,

THE LACK OF READING
MATERIALS IS BAD.

UH, IT'S NEARLY ALL BOREDOM.

UH, ALL ARMIES HAVE THAT THING
THEY SAY: "HURRY UP AND WAIT."

THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT
OF THAT, AND--AND BOREDOM IS

AVERY REAL FACTOR
IN THE ARMY.

WHAT WAS SCOTT--
WINFIELD SCOTT'S,

I BELIEVE, COMMENT
ON JEFFERSON DAVIS,

ABOUT APOSTLES
OR SOMETHING?

THAT CAME OUT OF, UH,
DAVIS BEFORE THE WAR,

CHARGING SCOTT WITH HAVING
OVERCHARGED HIS EXPENSES

ON A TRIP SOMEWHERE
OF $300.

UH, AND SCOTT, UH,
WAS FURIOUS

AT THE QUESTIONING OF HIS,
UH, EXPENSE ACCOUNT.

HE SAID THAT, UH--

HE SAID OF DAVIS,
UH...

"I DON'T KNOW WHETHER HE WOULD
HAVE BETRAYED THE SAVIOR

"FOR 30 PIECES OF SILVER,
BUT FOR POLITICAL ADVANCEMENT,

"HE WOULD HAVE BETRAYED
THE SAVIOR, ALL THE APOSTLES,

AND GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF,"
OR WORDS TO THAT EFFECT.

HE WAS REAL--REAL ANGRY

AT DAVIS THEN BEING
SECRETARY OF WAR.

THERE'S AWONDERFUL
SCENE IN WASHINGTON

OF PEOPLE CROWDING IN
AROUND LINCOLN

AND SEEKING JOBS
AND STUFF.

CAN YOU SORT OF SET
THAT WASHINGTON SCENE

ALONG WITH
THE TAPED STUFF?

LINCOLN WAS TROUBLED
BY OFFICE-SEEKERS

THROUGHOUT HIS, UH--
HIS 4-PLUS YEARS IN OFFICE,

BUT IT WAS WORSE AT THE START,
WHERE HIS CAMPAIGN MANAGERS

HAD PROMISED JOBS
TO A GREAT MANY PEOPLE

AND FAR MORE JOBS
THAN, UH, THERE WERE,

UH, FAR MORE APPLICANTS
THAN THERE WERE JOBS.

AND LINCOLN LOOKED
PARTICULARLY WORRIED ONE DAY,

AND SOMEBODY SAID, "WHAT'S
THE MATTER, MR. PRESIDENT?"

HE SAID, "THERE'S TOO
MANY PIGS FOR THE TITS."

OK.

TELL ME ABOUT ALL
THE PEOPLE AT SHILOH.

WHEN YOU DO
A KIND OF, UH--

MAN: THAT AN AIRPLANE THERE?

YEAH.
OK.

YEAH. I THINK IT'S
ALL RIGHT.

TOO LOUD? CUT.

CUT. YEAH.

SOUND'S ROLLING.
SPEED.

SLATE?

HOLD, PLEASE.
AND WAIT FOR ME AND...

OK. CAN YOU TELL ME
THAT STORY AGAIN

ABOUT OFFICE-SEEKERS?

UH, THROUGHOUT
LINCOLN'S PRESIDENCY,

AND THIS IS TRUE
OF MOST PRESIDENTS,

HE WAS FAIRLY RUN CRAZY
BY OFFICE-SEEKERS, ESPECIALLY

AT THE START, WHEN HIS CAMPAIGN
MANAGERS HAD PROMISED JOBS

TO A GREAT MANY PEOPLE
WHO CAME TO COLLECT THEM.

AND ONE MAN SAW HIM ONE DAY, AND
HE LOOKED PARTICULARLY WORRIED

AND THE MAN SAID, "WHAT'S
THE MATTER, MR. PRESIDENT?"

AND LINCOLN SAID, "THERE'S
TOO MANY PIGS FOR THE TITS."

TELL ME ABOUT ALL
THE PEOPLE AT SHILOH.

IT SEEMS TO BE
AWHO'S WHO

OF LATER EVENTS,
AND FROM PRESIDENTS

TO AUTHORS TO THINGS
LIKE THAT.

SHILOH'SA REAL,
UH, GALLERY.

UH, IT'S NO WONDER
THAT SO MANY PEOPLE

WHO WERE LATER PROMINENT
WERE AT SHILOH.

AND IT'S NO WONDER
THAT PEOPLE NOWADAYS,

ALMOST EVERYONE
YOU MEET, SAID,

"I HAD A GREAT-GREAT-
GRANDFATHER AT SHILOH."

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS,
PRACTICALLY EVERY SOLDIER

IN THE WESTERN THEATER
WAS AT SHILOH.

THEY BROUGHT THE TROOPS UP
FROM NEW ORLEANS,

FROM PENSACOLA, FROM
ALMOST EVERYWHERE ELSE,

TO MAKE THIS COUNTERATTACK
AT CORINTH--FROM CORINTH.

AND, UH, THAT IS WHY, UH,

YOU SEE SO MANY
PROMINENT MEN, UH, THERE.

EVERYBODY WAS THERE.

WHO ARE SOME OF THE
NOTABLES FROM--UH, YOU--

THE LIST IS ENDLESS.
UH, THEY--THEY WERE ALL THERE.

HARDY, THE CORPS COMMANDERS
AND THE DIVISION COMMANDERS,

FORREST WAS THERE,
JOHN HUNT MORGAN WAS THERE.

THEY--THEY WERE ALL THERE.

TELL ME ABOUT, UM,
WHAT FORREST DID

IN RETREAT AT SHILOH.

WELL, THAT'S--THAT'S ONE
OF THE INCREDIBLE STORIES.

UH, AFTER THE BATTLE
AT SHILOH,

BRECKENRIDGE'S CORPS HELD
THE REAR WHILE THE ARMY RETIRED.

THEN BRECKENRIDGE FELL--
FADED BACK AND LEFT FORREST

TO--TO--TO TAKE CARE OF, UH,
HOLDING UP THE--THE PURSUIT.

AND HE HAD A CONGLOMERATE
COMMAND OF TEXANS,

MISSISSIPPIANS,
ARKANSANS, TENNESSEANS.

UH, MORGAN'S MEN WERE
IN THAT CROWD.

ANYWAY, UH, THE RETREAT
LAY THROUGH A--A SWALE WHERE,

JUST BEFORE THE WAR, THERE
HAD BEEN A LOGGING PROJECT,

AND IT'S CALLED
"FALLEN TIMBERS."

THEY'D CUT THE TREES DOWN,
BUT HAD NOT HAULED THEM OFF.

SO FORREST GOT
ON THE OTHER SIDE,

ON A RIDGE THERE,
LOOKING BACK.

AND IT WAS SHERMAN
IN COMMAND OF A BRIGADE

THAT WAS FOLLOWING HIM.

AND HE SAW THE BRIGADE
START ACROSS THIS, UH,

THIS "FALLEN TIMBERS" STRETCH,
AND THEY WERE DISORGANIZED,

AS IF ARTILLERY HAD OPENED
ON THEM--SOME GOING AROUND

THE LOGS AND STEPPING
OVER THEM, EVERYTHING--

AND HE SAW
THE DISORGANIZATION.

AND INSTEAD OF WAITING
TO DEFEND THE RIDGE,

HE GAVE THE ORDER TO CHARGE,
AND THEY CHARGED THEM.

AND THEY WERE ALL
DISORGANIZED AND FELL BACK

AS FAST AS THEY COULD
ON THE MAIN BODY.

AND FORREST WAS PLUNGING
AFTER HIM THE WAY HE DID,

SWINGING THAT THING
AROUND HIS HEAD,

AND HOLLERING,
"CHARGE! CHARGE!"

AND HIS MEN SAW THAT THEY HAD
REPULSED THESE DISORGANIZED MEN,

SO THEY PULLED UP;
FORREST KEPT GOING,

AND HE LANDED SQUARE IN THE
MAIN BODY OF THE UNION TROOPS.

AND, UM,
HE WAS SURROUNDED BY—-

ONE GRAY UNIFORM
IN A SEA OF BLUE.

AND, UH, THEY BEGIN
TO HOLLER, "KILL HIM!

KILL THE GODDAMN REBEL!
KNOCK HIM OFF HIS HORSE!"

AND ONE SOLDIER DID, UH,
STICK HIS, UH, RIFLE

OUT INTO FORREST'S SIDE
AND PULLED THE TRIGGER,

AND LIFTED FORREST
CLEAR OF THE SADDLE

WITH THE IMPACT
OF THE BULLET.

AND FORREST, MEANTIME,
WAS SLASHING WITH HIS SABER,

HIS HORSE WAS KICKING
AND TURNING.

AND FORREST SAWED HIM AROUND
AND GOT HIM CLEAR AND TOOK OFF,

AND THEY WERE SHOOTING
AFTER HIM, SO HE REACHED DOWN

AND GRABBED ONE UNION SOLDIER
AND SWUNG HIM UP BEHIND HIM

ON THE CRUPPER OF THE HORSE
TO USE AS A SHIELD.

AND WHEN HE GOT OUT OF RANGE,
HE THREW THE MAN OFF

AND RODE BACK
TO JOIN HIS COMMAND.

THAT WAS THE LAST SHOT FIRED
IN THE BATTLE OF SHILOH.

WHY WAS THE DEATH OF ALBERT
SIDNEY JOHNSTON SO CRUCIAL?

ALBERT SIDNEY JOHNSTON WAS
LOOKED ON BY MANY PEOPLE,

AT THE TIME OF SHILOH--
AND ESPECIALLY BEFORE SHILOH,

WHILE HE WAS HOLDING
THAT LINE UP IN KENTUCKY--

AS THE SOUTH'S
NUMBER-ONE FIELD SOLDIER.

JEFFERSON DAVIS VIEWED HIM
AS THAT, AND WHEN HE LOST

TO ALBERT SIDNEY JOHNSTON,
HE SAID,

"| REALIZED OUR STRONGEST
PILLAR HAD BEEN BROKEN."

UH, EVEN TODAY,

IF YOU GO TO TEXAS,
FOR EXAMPLE,

IT'S ALBERT SIDNEY JOHNSTON
THAT'S REVERED

AS MUCH AS ROBERT E. LEE.

YOU USED THE PHRASE A LOT
WITH ME "THE MOST MAN."

WHAT DOES IT MEAN,
AND WHO IS "THE MOST MAN?"

THE BEST EXAMPLE I CAN GIVE YOU
OF WHAT "THE MOST MAN" MEANS IS,

IF YOU GO--WENT TO SEE
MAN O'WAR, UH, UP UNTIL HE DIED

IN '48, OR WHENEVER IT WAS,
THE GROOM USED TO LEAD HIM OUT

AND HE'D SAY,
"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,

THIS IS THE MOST HORSE
IN THE WORLD."

AND |T—-|T'S JUST AN EXPRESSION
THAT PASSED AROUND.

WHO IS THE MOST MAN
IN THE CIVIL WAR, SHELBY?

|--| GUESS ROBERT E. LEE
AND U.S. GRANT,

BUT UNQUESTIONABLY,
THE MOST MAN IS ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

CAN YOU GIVE ME
AN AERIAL VIEW OF SHILOH?

WHAT'S HAPPENING,
JUST IN A SENTENCE OR TWO?

THE--THE THING ABOUT SHILOH

THAT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
IS THERE IS NO VIEW.

UH, IT WAS FOUGHT
IN EARLY APRIL.

THE TREES WERE LEAFED OUT,

AND THE ROADS WERE
MEANDERING COW PATHS.

NOBODY KNEW NORTH FROM SOUTH,
EAST FROM WEST.

THEY'D NEVER BEEN IN COMBAT
BEFORE, MOST OF THEM,

ESPECIALLY ON
THE SOUTHERN SIDE.

80 IT WAS JUST A DISORGANIZED,
MURDEROUS FISTFIGHT

OF 100,000 MEN SLAMMING AWAY
AT EACH OTHER

AND NOBODY ABLE, REALLY,
TO EXERT ANY DIRECTION.

UH, IT WAS JUST TWO ARMED MOBS,
UH, IN A MURDEROUS THING.

YOU MUST REALIZE,
OUT OF THESE 100,000 MEN,

OVER 20,000 OF THEM
WERE KILLED, WOUNDED,

OR CAPTURED, OR MISSING.

UH, |T--|T WAS SLAUGHTER
ON A LARGE SCALE

AS A RESULT OF
THIS DISORGANIZATION.

TELL ME ABOUT
BRICE'S CROSSROADS.

BRICE'S CROSSROADS IS
A BRIGHT CAMEO OF ACTION.

IT'S A BEAUTIFUL INSTANCE
OF HOW ONE MAN CAN DETERMINE

AN OUTCOME OF A BATTLE;
IT'S BEAUTIFULLY DESIGNED.

AND FOR ONCE, WE'VE GOT
FORREST QUOTES

TELLING EXACTLY WHAT IS
GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND IT DID, JUST THE WAY
HE SAID IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

HE GAVE
WONDERFUL ORDERS IN THAT.

HE SAID, UH, "TELL BELL
TO COME UP FAST

AND FETCH ALL HE'S GOT."

HE SAID THINGS LIKE,
"HIT THEM ON THE END."

UM, IT'S A DEMONSTRATION
OF WHAT FORREST SAID WHEN HE--

WHAT HE MEANT WHEN HE SAID,
UH, "I'D RATHER HAVE

5 MINUTES OF BULGE
THAN A WEEK OF TACTICS."

IT, UH--BR|CE'S CROSSROADS
WAS HIS CHANCE

TO SHOW TRUE BRILLIANCE
AS A GENERAL

IN COMMAND OF A FIELD
OF BATTLE.

IT'LL REPAY ANY AMOUNT OF STUDY.

CUT, PLEASE.
THAT WAS A ROLL OUT.

TIME.

SO, ACTUALLY, ON THE
FIRST QUESTION IS...

MARCH 28, 1987.

"AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES."

PROJECT TITLE: "CIVIL WAR."

CAMERA ROLL 175,
SOUND ROLL 33.

INTERVIEW WITH SHELBY FOOTE.

RECORDED FLAT,
7 1/2 IPS,

-8 DB, REFERENCE TONE
TO FOLLOW.

ROLLING. SPEED.
AND...SLATE.

WHAT'S WRONG
WITH MCCLELLAN?

WHAT'S HIS PROBLEM?

MCCLELLAN, UH,

IS AN INTERESTING EXAMPLE
OF A MAN WHO WAS

NOT ALL THAT GOOD ON
AN ACTUAL FIELD OF FIGHT.

HIS SPECIALTY, LIKE BRAGG
IN THE CONFEDERATE ARMY,

IS PREPARING TROOPS
TO FIGHT,

AND HE DID THAT SUPERBLY.

MCCLELLAN HAS ANOTHER,
UH, CHARACTERISTIC,

WHICH IS, HE'S PROBABLY
THE MOST POPULAR

OF ALL THE UNION GENERALS
WITH THE TROOPS THEMSELVES.

THEY LOVED MCCLELLAN
AND WERE ALWAYS WILLING

TO STOP TO CHEER HIM
AT EVERY POINT.

THEY VERY SELDOM
CHEERED GRANT;

IT WASN'T THAT THEY DIDN'T
LIKE HIM AND ADMIRE HIM,

BUT MCCLELLAN AROUSED
ENTHUSIASM.

MCCLELLAN TRAINED
THAT ARMY.

WHATEVER THE ARMY
OF THE POTOMAC DID

IN THE AFTER YEARS IS
LARGELY DUE TO THE TRAINING

MCCLELLAN GAVE THEM
IN THAT FIRST YEAR.

BUT HIS LETTERS HOME TO
HIS WIFE ARE RIDICULOUS.

HE'S A LITTLE NAPOLEON.

HE SEES HIMSELF
IN NAPOLEONIC HUES,

UH, AND IT DETRACTS
FROM HIM.

HE'S THOUGHT OF AS BEING
SHORT LIKE NAPOLEON.

ACTUALLY, MCCLELLAN WAS
ABOUT 5'6" OR 7",

WHICH IS PRETTY MUCH
AVERAGE HEIGHT

FOR A MAN IN THOSE DAYS.

WHAT DID MEN EAT?

IT DEPENDED ON WHICH ARMY
YOU WERE IN.

UH, IN THE SOUTHERN ARMY, YOU
ATE SOMETHING CALLED "SLOOSH."

YOU GOT ISSUED
CORNMEAL AND BACON,

AND YOU FRIED THE BACON,

WHICH LEFTA GREAT DEAL
OF GREASE IN THE PAN.

THEN YOU TOOK THE CORNMEAL
AND SWIRLED IT AROUND

IN THE GREASE
TO MAKE THE DOUGH.

AND THEN YOU MIGHT TAKE
THE DOUGH AND ROUND--

UH, MAKE A SNAKE OF IT
AND PUT IT AROUND YOUR RAMROD

AND COOK IT OVER THE--
OVER THE CAMPFIRE.

THAT WAS CALLED "SLOOSH."
THEY ATE A LOT OF THAT.

WHAT DID LINCOLN
THINK OF POPE?

AND TELL ME--
ASSESS POPE.

POPE IS, UH, DIFFICULT
TO ASSESS WITH ANY CHARITY

BECAUSE HE'S A BLOWHARD
GENERAL WHO CAME TO WOES

AND WAS SHIPPED OUT TO MINNESOTA
TO GET RID OF HIM.

UH, LINCOLN WAS WARNED
AT THE START, UH, THAT POPE

WAS NOT TO BE TRUSTED
WITH TELLING THE TRUTH,

THAT HE WAS NOT TO BE TRUSTED
IN VARIOUS OTHER WAYS.

AND LINCOLN SAID,
"I'VE KNOWN THE POPES

"BACK IN ILLINOIS,
KNOWN ALL OF THEM.

"THEY'RE ALL LIARS
AND BRAGGARTS,

"BUT I DON'T KNOW
OF ANY PARTICULAR REASON

WHY A LIAR AND A BRAGGART
SHOULDN'T MAKE A GOOD GENERAL."

ISN'T THERE SOMETHING
ABOUT HIS HEAD--

HEADQUARTERS
OR WHERE HIS...

THAT'S AN OLD ARMY JOKE.

UM, HE HEADED HIS DISPATCH, UH,
HEADQUARTERS IN THE SADDLE.

AND THE JOKE--|T'S AN OLD
ARMY JOKE, THAT HE HAD

HIS HEADQUARTERS WHERE HIS
HINDQUARTERS OUGHT TO BE.

TELL ME ABOUT JACKSON
AT, UH, SHARPSBURG

WITH THE PEACH.

I MEAN, IT'S
ACHILLING SCENE.

JACKSON, UH, IS
AN EERIE CHARACTER,

UM, THE OLD TESTAMENT
WARRIOR WHO BELIEVED

IN SMITING THEM
HIP AND THIGH.

AFTER THE BLOODY FIGHTING
AT SHARPSBURG,

PARTICULARLY IN THE CORN FIELD,
AND AROUND THE DUNKER CHURCH,

AFTER HIS PART
OF THE BATTLE WAS OVER,

UH, JACKSON WAS SITTING ON
HIS HORSE EATING A PEACH,

AND HIS, UH, MEDICAL DIRECTOR,
DR. MCGUIRE, WAS THERE.

AND, UH...

HE--HE LOOKED OUT OVER
THIS FIELD, WHERE THERE

WERE DEAD OF BOTH SIDES
LITTERED ALL OVER THE PLACE,

AND AS HE'S EATING
THE PEACH, HE SAID,

"GOD HAS BEEN VERY KIND
TO US THIS DAY."

WHAT DID A.P. HILL DO?

I MEAN, HE'S GOT THIS
MARVELOUS MOMENT THERE

AT THE END OF THE DAY.

A.P. HILL IS THE--

IS THE FIGHTINGEST DIVISION
COMMANDER IN LEE'S ARMY.

AND, UH, THE LINE
"AND THEN A.P. HILL CAME UP"

IS THE LINE FROM SHARPSBURG,
WHERE HILL ARRIVED

AT ANOTHER ONE OF THOSE
NICK-OF-THE-MOMENT THINGS.

AND, UH, IT WAS THE LAST ONE,
AND IT SUCCEEDED |N THROWING

BURNSIDE BACK AFTER HE FINALLY
GOT ACROSS THE BRIDGE.

ANY ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE
RESULTED IN THE LOSS

OF THE BATTLE,
BUT IT WAS A CLIMATIC ONE

AFTER EVERYBODY THOUGHT HE
COULD NOT POSSIBLY GET THERE

IN TIME FROM HARPER'S FERRY.

HE DID GET THERE IN TIME
AND DID THROW BURNSIDE BACK.

CHANGING SCENES NOW
ALITTLE BIT.

IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT
VALVERDE, NEW MEXICO?

CAN YOU PAINT
THAT SCENE?

IS THAT
AN INTERESTING BATTLE?

|-|T'S A--|T'S
AVERY WEIRD THING.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE
A SEPARATE CAMPAIGN

THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED
50 YEARS BEFORE

OR 50 YEARS AFTER.

THE DESERT FIGHTING
IS VERY STRANGE.

THE MEN WERE FIGHTING
AS MUCH AGAINST THE DESERT

AS THEY WERE AGAINST TROOPS.

IT WAS HARD TO STAY ALIVE
FOR A WHOLE DAY

WITHOUT WATER
IN THAT COUNTRY,

SO THAT IT BECAME AVERY
DIFFERENT KIND OF FIGHTING

FROM THE REST OF THE--
REST OF THE WAR.

I HEARD THAT ORDER 191,
SKIPPING BACK

TO SHARPSBURG AGAIN,
HAS BEEN CALLED--

MCCLELLAN'S INACTION
ON IT HAS BEEN CALLED

THE GREAT CRIME
OF THE WAR.

WHAT'S THE IMPORTANCE
OF IGNORING IT?

|--|--| DON'T THINK
THAT THE CONDITIONS

THAT ALLOWED MCCLELLAN
TO SEE THROUGH LEE'S PLAN--

ONCE HE HAD ACTED ON THEM AND
GOT THEM ON THE SOUTH MOUNTAIN

AND THEN ON THE FIELD
AT SHARPSBURG,

ANY INFORMATION HE HAD WAS
OF NO HELP TO HIM BY THEN.

WHAT ABOUT THAT SAME
YEAR, JACKSON AND THE

PENINSULAR CAMPAIGN
AND--NOT IN THE

PENINSULA CAMPAIGN.
THE 7 DAYS?

THE 7 DAYS.
WHAT'S HE DOING?

WELL, UH,
THERE HAVE BEEN, UH,

SOME INTERESTING MEDICAL STUDY
OF JACKSON IN THE 7 DAYS,

AND IT'S FOUND THAT HE HAD
ABOUT 5 HOURS' SLEEP

IN THE PAST 3 DAYS.

SO THEY'VE DONE
A LOT OF RESEARCH

ON WHAT LACK OF SLEEP
WILL DO TO A MAN.

AT THE TIME, THEY WERE
GREATLY PUZZLED BY IT AND THERE

WERE THINGS LIKE "THE HOODED
FALCON CANNOT STRIKE."

UH, IN OTHER WORDS,
JACKSON OPERATES FINE

IN AN INDEPENDENT COMMAND,
BUT WAS NOT ABLE TO FUNCTION

AS PART OF AN ARMY.

WE LATER FOUND OUT
HOW UNTRUE THAT IS.

WHAT HE WAS WAS AVICTIM OF
A PARTICULAR KIND OF FATIGUE.

HE WAS A LONG WAY
FROM HIS BEST IN THE 7 DAYS.

'62 REALLY SEES
A BURGEONING TECHNOLOGY.

THE WAR REALLY SPAWNS
A LOT OF STUFF,

CLAUDE MINIE
AND OTHER THINGS.

CAN YOU TALK BRIEFLY
ABOUT INVENTIONS

AND THE ARTS
OF DEATH HERE?

THERE WERE MANY INVENTIONS,
BUT PERHAPS, UH,

THE ONE THING THAT THE WAR
CONTRIBUTED, REALLY,

TO THE ART OF WARFARE WAS
FIELD FORTIFICATIONS.

UH, THAT WAS PRIMARILY DUE
TO LONGSTREET, WHOSE MEN

INVENTED IT, AND JACKSON
SAW IT AND EMULATED IT.

LEE USED IT.

FINALLY, THAT ARMY GOT
SO THEY COULD FLOW

INTO A POSITION THE WAY
WATER SEEKS ITS OWN LEVEL.

THEY COULD, UH, GET
INTOA POSITION

AND HAVE OVERLAPPING
FIELDS OF FIRE

THAT A MASTER
MIGHT HAVE DESIGNED.

THE MEN DID IT THEMSELVES,
AFTER THE EXPERIENCE

OF FIGHTING THAT THEY HAD.

DID THE UNION BLOCKADE--
WAS IT EFFECTIVE?

IT WAS QUITE EFFECTIVE.

UM, IT DEPENDS
ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

THERE WERE ALWAYS THINGS
GETTING THROUGH,

AS LONG AS THERE WERE
BLOCKADE PORTS,

BUT IT GOT HARDER AND HARDER
TO GET THEM THROUGH.

ORIGINALLY, THERE WERE 4
OUT OF 5 GETTING THROUGH

AND FINALLY WOUND UP
1 OUT OF 3.

BUT THEY ALWAYS WOULD MANAGE
TO--ABLE TO GET THROUGH,

PARTICULARLY AT WILMINGTON...
THE LAST TO FALL.

DID MEN DRINK
IN THE ARMY?

THEY DRANK WHEN THEY COULD.

UH, IT WAS VERY HARD
TO FIND, UH,

LIQUOR, UH, IN THE SOUTH.

FOR ONE REASON, MANY
OF THE STILLS HAD BEEN,

UH, DISMANTLED
AND THE COPPER USED

TO MAKE PERCUSSION CAPS
OUT OF.

BUT THEY DRANK WHATEVER THEY
COULD GET THEIR HANDS ON.

IF I WAS IN THE ARMY,

I'D HEAR A NATION
OF MANY ACCENTS.

WHAT WOULD | HEAR,
ESPECIALLY IN,

LET'S SAY,
THE SOUTHERN ARMY?

WELL, IT'D DEPEND
ON HOW SHARP YOUR EAR WAS.

UH, YOU--SOUTH CAROLINIANS
DON'T TALK THE WAY

LOUISIANIANS DO,
SO YOU'D GET SOME OF THAT.

BUT I THINK THEY'D
PROBABLY BE MORE ALIKE THEN

THAN THEY ARE NOW, UH,
EVEN THOUGH TELEVISION

HAS HOMOGENIZED
OUR LANGUAGE.

I THINK, UH, THAT YOU--
YOU WOULD HAVE HEARD

VERY FEW FOREIGN ACCENTS,
FOR INSTANCE,

IN THE SOUTHERN ARMY;
SOME, BUT NOT MANY.

UH, AND IT'S HARD
TO SAY NOW.

WE'RE A LONG WAY
REMOVED FROM IT.

YEAH.

TELL ME ABOUT LINCOLN,
WHAT HE SAID

ABOUT KENTUCKY,
ABOUT GOD AND KENTUCKY.

UH,AT THE TIME,
HE WAS BEING URGED TO TAKE

STRONG POLITICAL ACTION
TO HOLD KENTUCKY IN THE UNION.

LINCOLN WAS VERY CAUTIOUS
ABOUT MOVING INTO KENTUCKY,

LEST HE SCARE THEM OUT.

AND HE SAID--UH,
HIS SUMMATION WAS,

"I HOPE I HAVE GOD
ON MY SIDE,

BUT I MUST HAVE KENTUCKY."

WHAT'S THE STORY ABOUT
CHURCH BELLS DURING

THE PENINSULAR CAMPAIGN,
RINGING AND TOLLING?

FROM MCCLELLAN'S LINES,
YOU COULD HEAR

THE BELLS
OF RICHMOND TOLLING.

YOU COULD HEAR THE CHURCH BELLS
AND THE PUBLIC CLOCKS STRIKING.

HE WAS THAT CLOSE.

WOW.

TELL ME
ABOUT LINCOLN'S

STATE OF THE UNION
SPEECH IN '62.

IT'S REALLY
A FANTASTIC--

IT'S WHERE WHAT I CALL
A"L|NCOLN MUSIC"

FIRST BEGAN TO SOUND.

UH, |T--|T IS A STATE
OF THE UNION ADDRESS

IN WHICH HE REFERRED
TO THE UNION

AND OUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT
BEING THE--

THE "LAST BEST HOPE
OF EARTH."

IT'S TRULYA NOBLE SPEECH,
UH, AND IT, UH,

IT RANKS WITH SOME
OF THE BEST AMERICAN WRITING

EVER DONE,
AT THAT TIME OR SINCE.

WHAT'S THE
"McCLELLAN/CUSTER

FORDING THE STREAM
STORY"?

UH, DURING
THE PENINSULA CAMPAIGN, UH,

MCCLELLAN WAS WORKING HIS WAY
UP THE YORK-JAMES PENINSULA

AND HE CAME TO A STREAM,

AND HE AND HIS STAFF WERE
SITTING THERE, WONDERING

HOW DEEP IT WAS IF THEY HAD
TO MARCH ACROSS IT.

AND, UH, CUSTER, WHO WAS
AJUNIOR OFFICER ON HIS STAFF--

JUST GRADUATED FROM WEST POINT;
ACAPTAIN, |TH|NK--

RODE OUT INTO MIDSTREAM,
SAT HIS HORSE, AND TURNED AROUND

IN THE SADDLE AND SAID
TO MCCLELLAN,

"THIS IS HOW DEEP
IT IS, GENERAL."

WHAT DID THE NORTH FEAR?

THERE'S A GREAT SCENE
OF THE PEOPLE

IN THE WHITE HOUSE,
THE FEAR FROM THE, UH,

IRONCLAD SHIP.

UH,AT THE TIME, UH,
THE MERRIMACK CAME OUT

AND SANK THOSE WOODEN SHIPS,

UH, THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL
OF FEAR IN WASHINGTON

THAT THEY WERE GONNA
COME OUT AROUND THE CAPES

AND COME UP THE POTOMAC, UH, UP
CHESAPEAKE BAY AND THE POTOMAC.

AND, UH, STANTON, STANDING,
LOOKING OUT OF THE WINDOW

AT THE CABINET MEETING, SAID,
"SHE MAY APPEAR AT ANY MOMENT

AND FIRE SOME SHOTS
RIGHT INTO THIS ROOM."

WELLES, THE SECRETARY OF NAVY,
HAD A GREAT DEAL OF CONTEMPT

FOR STANTON ANYHOW AND SAID
IT WAS RIDICULOUS, AND IT WAS.

UH, THE MERRIMACK COULD NOT
HAVE MADE SUCH ATRIP.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT
BEN BUTLER ON HORSEBACK

AND THE WILMINGTON
STORY?

THEY SAID HE WAS THE MOST
RIDICULOUS FIGURE ON HORSEBACK.

HE LOOKED LIKE SOMEBODY

OF ODDLY ASSORTED PARTS
PUT TOGETHER

AND ALL JIGGLING IN DIFFERENT
DIRECTIONS WHEN HE RODE.

AND HE WAS COCKEYED,
WHICH ADDED TO THE IMPRESSION.

BUTLER--BUTLER IS AN ATTRACTIVE
FIGURE IN A LOT OF WAYS,

UH, HIS ECCENTRICITIES
BEING ONE--UH, PART OF IT.

PERRYVILLE, KENTUCKY--
IMPORTANT?

YES, IT'S
AN INTERESTING BATTLE,

UM, WHICH YOU HAVE
SOMETHING LIKE 9,000

OR 10,000 CONFEDERATES,
UH, MATCHED

AGAINST 40,000
OR 50,000 UNION TROOPS.

BUT 2/3 OF THE UNION TROOPS
WEREN'T ENGAGED,

AND IT WAS A RATHER BRIEF
BUT BLOODY BATTLE, UH,

THAT AS SOON AS NIGHTFALL FELL,
THE CONFEDERATES FOUND OUT

WHAT THEY WERE FACING
AND GOT THE HELL OUT.

UH, IT'S AN IMPORTANT
BATTLE, THOUGH.

IT'S THE LAST BATTLE
OF BRAGG'S INVASION

AND, UH,
AN INTERESTING BATTLE.

IT'S WHERE SHERIDAN
FIRST MADE A SHOWING.

UH, PAT CLEBURNE WAS BADLY
WOUNDED AT PERRYVILLE.

PERRYVILLE IS
AN INTERESTING BATTLE.

| FIRST SAW THE FIELD
OF PERRYVILLE--

I'D JUST BLUNDERED INTO IT,

AND APPARENTLY NOBODY
KNEW IT WAS THERE.

IT WAS A TOTALLY
DESERTED PLACE.

| BET IT'S BEEN
DEVELOPED SINCE THEN.

THIS WAS WAY BACK
IN THE LATE FIFTIES.

CUT, PLEASE.
ROLL OUT. PERFECT.

WE HAVE CAUGHT UP
WITH OURSELVES.

I HAVE ONE OTHER
'62 QUESTION,

AND THEN I'M MOVING
INTO--

AUDIO DROPOUT

GOOD LUCK.

MAN: MARCH 28, 1987.

"AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES."

PROJECT TITLE: "CIVIL WAR."

CAMERA ROLL 176,
SOUND ROLL 34.

INTERVIEW WITH SHELBY FOOTE.

RECORDED FLAT,
7 1/2 IPS,

-8 DB, REFERENCE TONE
TO FOLLOW.

ROLLING, SPEED.

AND...DARN. SORRY. MOMENT.

JUST KEEP ROLLING SOUND.

MOVE YOUR HAND AWAY
FOR A SECOND, KEN.

| COULDN'T FOCUS. OK.

AND...SLATE.

SHELBY, ONE OF MY
FAVORITE STORIES |S

THE TULLAHOMA JOKE.
YEAH.

CAN YOU TELL ME
THE TULLAHOMA JOKE?

WELL, BRAGG'S ARMY WAS, UH,
IN CAMP IN THE WINTER.

UH, AND TULLA—-TULLAHOMA
WAS A--THE HEADQUARTERS.

AND SOME CONFEDERATE
STAFF MEMBER SAID THAT, UH,

TULLAHOMA WAS NOT AN INDIAN NAME
AS COMMONLY SUPPOSED.

IT'S FROM THE GREEK,
"TULLA," MEANING "MUD,"

AND "HOMA,"
MEANING "MORE MUD."

WHEN THE MEN WERE
ON R&R--TALK ABOUT R&R,

AND TELL ME WHAT ATRIP
TO THAT WHOREHOUSE

WAS CALLED, AND PART
OF THAT STORY.

UH, ATRIP TO
THE WHOREHOUSE WAS CALLED

"A TRIP DOWN THE LINE."

UH, THERE WERE MANY
OTHER TERMS FOR IT, TOO,

AND THERE WERE A GREAT MANY
PROSTITUTES ON BOTH SIDES,

UH, PRINCIPALLY IN THE CITIES
WHERE THE BOYS WENT ON FURLOUGH,

LIKE RICHMOND
OR NEW YORK OR WHEREVER.

BUT THEY--THEY WERE--
THEY WERE VERY ACTIVE.

INCIDENTALLY,
IT'S NOT TRUE

THAT HOOKERS GOT
THEIR NAME FROM HOOKER.

UH, UH, THEY WERE "HOOKERS"
BEFORE HOOKER.

DID MEN FIGHT IN
THE SNOW?

WERE THERE BATTLES
IN THE SNOW?

THEY HAD A--A—-A--
OF COURSE, THERE WAS

SOME FIGHTING IN THE SNOW
AT FREDERICKSBURG.

BUT THE WONDERFUL THING
ABOUT THE SNOW IS

THEY USED TO HAVE, UH,
SNOWBALL BATTLES.

AND THEY WOULD FIGHT
BY REGIMENTS AND BRIGADES,

AND MANEUVER
AND THROW SNOWBALLS.

AND, UH, THERE WAS ALWAYS
SOME VILLAINOUS CHARACTER

WHO'D PUTA ROCK
IN HIS SNOWBALL,

AND SOMEBODY WOULD LOSE
AN EYE OR SO.

BUT THEY HAD VERY REAL
BATTLES, SORT OF TRAINING.

THEY'D MATCH
THE 53rd VIRGINIA

AGAINST THE 23rd GEORGIA
AND HAVE IT OUT WITH SNOWBALLS.

TELL ME ABOUT
THE VALLEY FORGE

OF FREDERICKSBURG, OF
AFTER FREDERICKSBURG.

HE--THE WORST, UH,
VALLEY FORGE THING--

NOBODY WAS BAREFOOT IN IT,
BUT BURNSIDE'S MUD MARCH

AFTER FREDERICKSBURG
WAS A REAL NIGHTMARE.

THEY JUST HAD
TO CALL IT OFF

WHEN EVERYTHING WAS
TOTALLY STALLED.

UH, THEY--THEY—-THE WORST
SUFFERING THAT I KNOW OF

WAS IN THE RETREAT
FROM NASHVILLE.

UH, THE ARMY RETREATED,

UH, MANY OF THEM
WERE BAREFOOT.

IT WAS, UH, VERY BAD
WEATHER, COLD, WINTERTIME,

AND, UH, BRAGG, DOING
ANOTHER OF HIS RETREATS.

FORREST, UH, ORGANIZED
ATHING WITH WAGONS,

UH, RUNNING, UH, RELAYS
OF WAGONS BACK AND FORTH

WITH THE MEN PILING
INTO THEM

AND RIDING A CERTAIN
DISTANCE DOWN THE ROAD,

AND THEN THE WAGON WOULD GO
BACK AND PICK UP SOME MORE.

CAN YOU TALK
ABOUT THE VALOR

OF THE UNION MEN
AT FREDERICKSBURG?

VALOR IS USUALLY--UH,

MORE CREDIT FOR VALOR IS GIVEN
TO CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE
HAD MORE ELAN AND DASH.

UH, ACTUALLY, I KNOW OF
NO BRAVER MEN IN EITHER ARMY

THAN THE UNION TROOPS
AT FREDERICKSBURG,

WHICH WAS A SERIOUS DEFEAT.

BUT TO KEEP CHARGING THAT WALL
AT THE FOOT OF MARYE'S HEIGHTS

AFTER ALL THE FAILURES
THEY'D BEEN,

AND THEY WERE
ALL FAILURES, UH,

IS A SINGULAR INSTANCE
OF VALOR.

UH, IT WAS A—-D|FFERENT
FROM SOUTHERN ELAN.

IT WAS A STEADINESS
UNDER FIRE,

A CONTINUING TO PRESS
THE--THE POINT.

WHAT'S THE
NORTHERN LIGHTS STORY

AT FREDERICKSBURG?

AFTER THE BATTLE,
UH, THAT NIGHT, UH,

IT WAS VERY UNUSUAL TO SEE
THE NORTHERN LIGHTS

THAT FAR SOUTH.

BUT THE WHOLE HEAVENS WERE
LIT UP WITH STREAMERS OF FIRE

AND WHATEVER
THE NORTHERN LIGHTS ARE.

AND, UH, THE CONFEDERATES
TOOK IT AS A SIGN

THAT GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF
WAS CELEBRATING

A CONFEDERATE VICTORY.

WHAT DID THEY CALL IT?

DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN, THEY SORT OF
SAID SOMETHING ABOUT

"HANGING OUT THE
BANNERS" OR SOMETHING?

YEAH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT,
HEAVEN WAS HANGING OUT

THE BANNERS,
THE STREAMERS.

UH, WE WERE TALKING
ABOUT THIS BEFORE,

BUT, UH, WHY WERE
THERE SO MANY,

UH, MISSING
AT FREDERICKSBURG?

AND SORT OF SET IT UP.

THE--THE--THE FIGURES
I HAVE FORGOTTEN, EXACTLY.

LEE LOST A GOOD DEAL,
LESS THAN HALF

AS MANY MEN
AS BURNSIDE, AND, UH,

IT'S KIND OF SUSPICIOUS
THAT THEY SHOULD BE MISSING

FROM THE CONFEDERATE--
ON THE CONFEDERATE LIST,

BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT CHARGING.
THEY WERE IN POSITION.

AND, UH--AHEM--THEY NOW
BELIEVE THAT A GOOD MANY

OF THE MISSING HAD
GONE HOME FOR CHRISTMAS.

CAN YOU MAKE LINCOLN
A HUMAN BEING?

CAN YOU PAINT--
YOU TALKED TO ME ONCE

ABOUT AN ALMOST
EFFEMINATE QUALITY

HE HAD, BUT MAKE HIM
HUMAN FOR ME.

IT'S VERY HARD
TO GET HOLD OF LINCOLN.

HE'S BEEN EMBALMED
IN LEGEND.

AND, UH, ALL THE STORIES
OF HIS COMPASSION--

WHICH ARE GREATLY OVERDONE,
UH, AS YOU KNOW,

FROM CERTAIN THINGS,
LIKE HANGING 31 INDIANS

IN ONE DAY AT MANKATO.

UH, WHAT'S SO INTERESTING
ABOUT LINCOLN IS

THE MANY SIDES
OF HIS CHARACTER,

AND WHAT LEGEND HAS DONE IS
TAKEN WHAT IT THOUGHT WAS

THE MOST ATTRACTIVE SIDES
OF HIM AND--AND MADE

A LINCOLN WHO HAD
ONLY THOSE SIDES.

THE OTHER SIDES
OF LINCOLN, PARTICULARLY

THE PRACTICAL
POLITICIAN, UH, UH...

GET NEGLECTED WHEN THEY--
WHEN THEY, UH, ERECT HIM.

HE HASN'T BECOME A MARBLE MAN,

AS THEY SAY OF LEE NOWADAYS,
BUT HE'S COMING PRETTY CLOSE

TO BEING, UH, SMOTHERED
IN, UH, IN SENTIMENTALITY.

LINCOLN WAS ONE OF THE LEAST
SENTIMENTAL MEN WHO EVER LIVED.

CAN YOU TALK
ABOUT THAT "SOFT,

EFFEMINATE SIDE,"
YOU CALLED IT?

|T'S--|T--|T'S--
IT'S HARD TO KNOW,

UH, UH, UH,
WHAT TO CALL IT.

|T'S--|T'S VERY DIFFERENT

FROM THE, UH, RUGGED, UH,

SORT OF MOUNTAIN TYPE
THAT THEY SEE LINCOLN AS.

THERE'S THIS--THERE'S
A SOFTNESS TO HIM

AND A COMPASSION IN HIM
AND A FEELING FOR SUFFERING

THAT HAS, SOME THOUGHT,
THE QUALITY OF, UH,

NOT EFFEMINATE,
BYA LONG SHOT, BUT FEMININE.

WHAT WAS JANUARY 1, 1863
LIKE FOR LINCOLN?

WHAT'S THE SCENE?

THAT WAS ONE OF THE
BUSIEST DAYS OF HIS LIFE.

HE SIGNED THE EMANCIPATION
PROCLAMATION,

HE HAD A RECEPTION
THAT MORNING,

UH, GOD KNOWS HOW MANY
HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE

HE HAD TO SHAKE
HANDS WITH.

WHEN IT GOT TIME TO SIGN
THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION,

AND HIS, UH, HAND WAS, UH,
NOT IN GOOD SHAPE

AFTER ALL THAT HAND-SHAKING,
AND HE WAS AFRAID

THAT IT WAS GONNA LOOK LIKE HE
HAD HESITATED IN SIGNING IT.

SO HE SAT DOWN AND WROTE IT,
AND EVERYBODY WATCHED

WITH A GREAT DEAL
OF ANXIETY.

AND HE VERY SELDOM SIGNED
A DOCUMENT "ABRAHAM LINCOLN."

HE USUALLY SIGNED,
"A. LINCOLN."

THIS TIME, HE WROTE OUT
THE "ABRAHAM"

AND WHEN HE GOT THROUGH,
EVERYBODY HEAVED A BIG SIGH

OF RELIEF BECAUSE HE HAD
WRITTEN IT IN A GOOD, BOLD HAND.

UM, I WANT TO CUT
FOR A SECOND

WHILE THAT PLANE GOES.

SOUND'S ROLLING.
SPEED.

WAIT. SLATE.

SHELBY,
WE WERE TALKING

ABOUT THEORIES
OF HISTORY AND YOU SAID

SOMETHING |N--
REFERRING IN GENERAL

TO THE CIVIL WAR
ABOUT "CLEAR RIVERS

AND A BLOODY LAKE."

THAT'S A DOUGLAS SOUTHALL
FREEMAN, UH, QUOTE.

HE WROTE ABOUT
THE CIVIL WAR FOR YEARS.

UH, "R.E. LEE,"
"LEE'S LIEUTENANTS."

AHEM. AND THEN HE BEGAN A
BIOGRAPHY OF GEORGE WASHINGTON.

AND HE SAID HE WAS AMAZED
AT THE DIFFERENCE

IN THE ATMOSPHERE IN WHICH
THE THING TOOK PLACE.

UH, FOR INSTANCE, THERE WAS
AN ABSENCE OF RELIGION,

OR FORMAL RELIGION, ANYHOW,
A LOT OF FREE THINKING

AND SO FORTH, SO DIFFERENT
FROM THE CIVIL WAR ATMOSPHERE

THAT HE BEGAN TO THINK
THAT AMERICAN HISTORY WAS

A CLEAR STREAM RUNNING
INTO A BLOODY LAKE--

THE CIVIL WAR--AND COMING OUT
CLEAR ON THE OTHER SIDE.

HE FELT THAT THE MEN
OF HIS TIME--

THAT IS, THE MID-20th CENTURY--
WERE MORE LIKE THE

REVOLUTIONARY PEOPLE THAN THEY
WERE LIKE THE CIVIL WAR PEOPLE.

AND THAT'S WHY HE REFERRED
TO THE CIVIL WAR

AS A SORT OF BLOODY LAKE
INTO WHICH THE CLEAR STREAM

OF AMERICAN HISTORY RAN
AND EMERGED.

WHAT WAS L|KE--L|FE
ON A GUNBOAT LIKE?

MAN: PAUSE. PAUSE.

THERE'S A--THERE'S
AWONDERFUL QUOTE, UH--

TRY IT AGAIN,
PLEASE. OK.

THERE'S A QUOTE ABOUT WHAT
LIFE WAS LIKE ON A GUNBOAT.

| WISH I COULD REMEMBER IT. |T—-
SAID, "IF YOU WANT TO KNOW"--

HE'S WRITING HOME TO HIS MOTHER
AND TELLING HER WHAT IT'S LIKE.

HE SAID, "IF YOU WANT TO KNOW
WHAT IT'S LIKE, GO DOWN

"IN THE BASEMENT WHERE THERE ARE
A GREAT MANY RUSTY THINGS

"LYING AROUND, THEN GO UP
ON THE ROOF WHERE THE SUN'S HOT

"FORAWHILE, AND, UH,
EAT SOME BAD FOOD

"AND LISTEN TO DIRTY TALK
BY OTHER SAILORS, AND YOU'LL

HAVE SOME KIND OF NOTION
WHAT MY LIFE IS LIKE."

THERE WAS WHERE
BOREDOM CAME IN.

UH, LIFE ON THE GUNBOATS
WAS AVERY BORING THING,

ESPECIALLY
ON BLOCKADE DUTY.

BRANDY STATION.

BRANDY STATION IS
A FAMOUS CAVALRY BATTLE.

AND IT WAS WHERE J.E.B. STUART
GOT TAKEN DOWN A NOTCH.

AND IT MAY HAVE HAD
A GOOD DEAL TO DO WITH

HIS BEHAVIOR ON THE GETTYSBURG--
IN THE GETTYSBURG CAMPAIGN,

TRYING TO RETRIEVE
HIS REPUTATION;

NOT THAT HE LOST
AT BRANDY STATION,

BUT HE GOT, UH--
GOT CHECKED.

IT'S A PRETTY SPECTACULAR
BATTLE, THOUGH.

IT IS, INDEED.
IT'S A--A...

VON BORCKE'S BOOK CALLED,
"DIE GROSSE REITERSCHLACHT

BEI BRANDY STATION" HAS ALWAYS
BEEN A WONDERFUL TITLE TO ME.

TELL ME ABOUT WHAT
ROBERT E. LEE'S

CONVERSATION WITH
J.E.B. STUART WENT LIKE

AFTER HE FINALLY
SHOWED UP TO GETTYSBURG.

WELL, STUART HAD BEEN MISSING
FOR THE FIRST TWO DAYS.

HE GOT THERE ON THE--
LATE IN THE SECOND DAY.

AND, UH, STUART WAS A...

HE WAS--HE KNEW THAT HE
HAD DONE WRONG BEING AWAY

AND HE DID AGREAT DEAL
MORE WRONG THAN HE KNEW.

LEE WAS GROPING AROUND
BLIND IN PENNSYLVANIA

BECAUSE OF STUART'S—-
SO WHEN STUART ARRIVED--AHEM--

ALL HE HAD TO SHOW FOR ALL THIS
WAS A COUPLE OF HUNDRED WAGONS

AND MULES AND
EVERYTHING ELSE.

AND HE--HE SAW LEE
STANDING THERE,

STERNLY LOOKING
AT HIM ARRIVING LATE.

AND HE--HE BLEW THE THING
BY MAKING HIS ANNOUNCEMENT

AT THE START, AND HE SAID,
"GENERAL, I'VE BROUGHT YOU

200 BRAND-NEW WAGONS,"
AND LEE SAID,

"GENERAL, THEY'RE
AN IMPEDIMENT TO ME NOW.

IASKED YOU TO HELP ME
WHIP THESE PEOPLE."

AND, UH, IT WAS A...
ASEVERE ADMONISHMENT FROM LEE.

AND, UH, LEE SAW HE'D
HURT HIS FEELINGS,

SO HE SAID, "COME,
IT'LL BE ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL, UH--WE'LL BE
ALL RIGHT."

WHAT DID THE CONFEDERATE
SOLDIER OR OFFICER SAY

WHEN HE ARRIVED
INTO THE BEAUTY

OF THE PENNSYLVANIA
COUNTRYSIDE

AND LOOKED AROUND?

OR SET THE SCENE FOR ME.

WELL, THE CONFEDERATES
ARE INVADING,

UH, THE NORTH.

THEY MARCH
THROUGH MARYLAND

AND ON INTO PENNSYLVANIA,

AND IT'S, UH, VERY
HANDSOME COUNTRY THERE.

THE BARNS ARE
MAGNIFICENT,

AND THE GREEN FIELDS
AND EVERYTHING,

AND THE PEOPLE,
UH, WATCHING

THESE CONFEDERATES GO BY.

AND THERE WAS
A BLACK BODY SERVANT,

UH, UH, IN THE COLUMN,

AND THEY STOPPED,
UH, JUST A HALT,

AND THE PEOPLE
IN THE HOUSE ASKED HIM

WHAT HE THOUGHT
OF THIS COUNTRY AROUND HERE.

AND HE SAID, "THIS IS
A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY,

BUT IT DOESN'T COME UP
TO HOME IN MY EYES."

PICKETT'S CHARGE.
HOW COME THERE WERE

ONLY 50% CAS UALTI ES?

IT JUST SEEMS
LIKEA BLOODBATH.

WELL, 50% IS ABOUT AS
HIGH AS YOU'LL EVER GET.

AHEM. UH, |-|-|T WAS
AN INCREDIBLE MISTAKE,

AND THERE'S SCARCELY
ATRAINED SOLDIER

WHO DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS
A MISTAKE AT THE TIME

IT WAS DONE, EXCEPT
POSSIBLY PICKETT HIMSELF,

WHO WAS VERY HAPPY
AT A CHANCE FOR GLORY,

BUT EVERY MAN WHO LOOKED
OUT OVER THAT FIELD,

UH, WHETHER IT'S A SERGEANT
OR A LIEUTENANT GENERAL,

SAW THAT IT WAS
A DESPERATE ENDEAVOR

AND I'M SURE KNEW
THAT IT SHOULD NOT

HAVE BEEN MADE.

LONGSTREET BELIEVED
THAT IT SHOULD NOT

HAVE BEEN MADE.

HE SAID, "NO 15,000 MEN
WHO EVER LIVED COULD

MAKE THAT CHARGE."

ACTUALLY, THERE WERE
ABOUT 12,000.

CUT, PLEASE.
END OF ROLL.

MAN: MARCH 28, 1978,
AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES,

PROJECT TITLE "CIVIL WAR,"

CAMERA ROLL 177,
SOUND ROLL 35,

CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW
WITH SHELBY FOOTE,

RECORDED FLAT, 7 1/2 IPS,
-8 DB REFERENCE TONE TO FOLLOW.

SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

AND...SLATE.

WAIT FOR ME,
AND OK.

WHAT--WHAT THE HELL
WAS SICKLES

DOING ON JAN--
JULY 2?

HE WAS, UH, CORRECTING
WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS

A VULNERABLE POSITION.

HE MOVED HIS TROOPS OUT
SO AS TO NOT BE ON THIS--

ON THIS, UH, WHAT
HE CONSIDERED

VULNERABLE GROUND.

THE REST OF THE ARMY
WAS AMAZED.

UH, SOMEBODY SAID
HE STUCK OUT LIKE
A SORE THUMB,

AND SURE--AND,
UH, |--| THINK IT WAS

HANCOCK WHO SAW
HIM GO OUT,

AND HE SAID,
"WAITAWHILE.

YOU'LL SEE HIM
TUMBLING BACK,"

AND OF COURSE, THEY DID.

BUT HIS MOVEMENT REALLY
CREATED AN OPPORTUNITY

FOR ONE OF THE REALLY
COLORFUL MOMENTS
IN THE WAR.

CAN YOU TELL ME
JUST BRIEFLY ABOUT
LITTLE ROUND TOP?

WELL, UH, LITTLE
ROUND TOP HAD ALREADY
BEEN ATTACKED.

UH, IT WAS PERHAPS
THE KEY TO THE POSITION

IF THEY COULD HAVE TAKEN IT
UNLESS BIG ROUND TOP WAS,

WHICH NOBODY TRIED
TO TAKE,

ALTHOUGH THEY MOVED
ACROSS IT.

UH, THIS WAS AN ATTACK
AGAINST THE WHEAT FIELD

AND THE BOTTOM
OF THAT FISHHOOK SHANK,

AND, UH, IT WAS
LED BY BARKSDALE'S
MISSISSIPPIANS,

WHO MADE A CHARGE
ALL THE WAY ACROSS,

AND IT WAS A--|T WAS
A HORRENDOUS THING TO DO,

AND THEY H|T--THERE WAS
A FENCE THEY THOUGHT

THEY WOULD HAVE TO
STOP AND CLIMB OVER.

THEY HIT IT,
AND THE FENCE DISAPPEARED.

THEY JUST DEMOLISHED
THE FENCE, WALKED--

RAN RIGHT THROUGH IT
AND ON UP THE RIDGE,

AND GOT UP
ON THE RIDGE ITSELF,

BUT THEY WERE UP
THERE BY THEMSELVES,

AND THEY SOON WERE
THROWN BACK AGAIN.

UH, IT'S ONE
OF THE COLORFUL CHARGES

ACROSS THE WHEAT FIELDS
AND ALL THAT

|N--|N--AT GETTYSBURG.

CAN YOU TELL ME
IF JOSHUA--

CAN I STOP FOR A SECOND.
YEAH. CUT.

SLATE.

CAN YOU TELL ME, UH,
WHAT JOSHUA LAWRENCE
CHAMBERLAIN DID

THAT DAY THAT WAS
80 SPECTACULAR?

WELL, UH, I DON'T
REMEMBER TOO WELL.

IT JUST THAT HE--UH,
HE AND WARREN, UH, SAVED

LITTLE ROUND TOP,
WHICH MEANT SAVING
THE POSITION.

UH, THE DETAILS OF IT,
ABOUT THE--THE CHARGES

THAT CAUGHT THE CONFEDERATES
OFF BATTLE AND ALL,

I HAVE FORGOTTEN
A GOOD DEAL OF.

FINE. UM, LEE
AND GETTYSBURG.

THIS IS A MISTAKE,
IS IT NOT?

GETTYSBURG WAS
THE PRICE THE SOUTH PAID

FOR HAVING R.E. LEE.

LEE WAS OFF-BALANCE
AT GETTYSBURG

IN SEVERAL WAYS,
THE PRINCIPAL ONE BEING

THE ABSENCE
OF HIS CAVALRY.

HE HAD ALWAYS COUNTED
ON STUART AND HIS CAVALRY

FOR INTELLIGENCE
AS TO ENEMY POSITIONS

AND MOVEMENTS,
AND HE WAS LACKING THAT.

HE WAS GROPING
AROUND THE HOR--

UH, AROUND
THE LANDSCAPE BLIND.

AND PEOPLE WOULD COME UP
TO HIM IN THE FIELD

ALL THROUGH THOSE DAYS,
AND HE SAID,

"CAN YOU TELL ME
WHERE STUART IS?

HAVE YOU SEEN
MY CAVALRY?"

AVERY STRANGE THING
FOR A COMMANDER TO
HAVE TO ASK.

SO THAT THAT PUT HIM
OFF-BALANCE SOMEWHAT.

THEN THE FIRST
DAY'S FIGHTING WAS
80 ENCOURAGING,

AND THE SECOND DAY'S
FIGHTING, HE CAME

WITHIN AN INCH
OF DOING IT,

AND BY THAT TIME,
LONGSTREET SAID,

"LEE'S BLOOD WAS UP."

AND LONGSTREET SAID,
"WHEN HIS BLOOD WAS UP,

THERE WAS NO
STOPPING HIM."

LONGSTREET TRIED
TO STOP HIM.

AND LEE SAID,
"NO, HE'S THERE,"

MEANING THE ENEMY,
"AND I'M GONNA STRIKE HIM."

AND THAT WAS THE MISTAKE
HE MADE, THE MISTAKE

OF ALL MISTAKES.

DOES LEE DESERVE
TO BE LIONIZED?

YES, HE DOES DESERVE
TO BE LIONIZED,

IF EVER A MAN DID.

UH, THE RESULTS
OF LIONIZING SOMEBODY,

HOWEVER,
ARE UNFORTUNATE.

THEY COVER THE TRUTH.

THEY--THEY TURNED HIM
INTO SOMETHING HE WASN'T.

THERE IS A STORY
ABOUT JACKRABBITS,

AND--ALSO
IN PICKETT'S CHARGE.

THE UNION MEN WERE
YELLING SOMETHING.

IT'S REALLY IN REVERSE
FROM A BATTLE BEFORE.

THE--P|CKETT'S MEN
AT GETTYSBURG WERE LINED UP

FOR THE CHARGE
ON THE THIRD DAY,

AND THEY HAD
A LONG WAIT.

UH, THEY KNEW WHAT THEY
WERE GONNA DO,

BUT THEY HAD TO WAIT.

AND WHILE THEY WERE
WAITING, FORMED

AND READY TO MOVE OUT,
THEY WERE IN DEFILADE,

AMONG BRUSH, AND THINGS,

AND A RABBIT JUMPED OUT
OF THE BUSHES

AND TOOK OFF REARWARD,

AND ONE OF THE SOLDIERS
LOOKED AFTER HIM

AND HOLLERED,
"RUN, OLD HARE.

IF I WAS A OLD HARE,
I'D RUN, TOO."

HEH HEH HEH.

SURE-SURE IT
WASN'T ALL VALOR. HEH.

WHAT WAS THE STORY
ABOUT THE WHITWORTH
RA—-R|FLE

AT LITTLE ROUND TOP,

AND THE GENERAL OPINION
OF SHARPSHOOTERS,

I'D LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT.

UH,THEn
THE WHITWORTH RIFLE WAS

A SHARPSHOOTER'S RIFLE,
OFTEN WITH A GLASS SIGHT,

AND WAS EFFECTIVE--

YOU'LL HAVE DIFFICULTY
BELIEVING THIS--

ATA RANGE
OF ABOUT 1,000 YARDS.

UH, THERE WERE MEN
DROPPED BY AIMED SHOTS

ON LITTLE ROUND TOP
BY SHARPSHOOTERS

FROM ALL THE WAY BACK.

AND, UH, THE GOOD
INSTANCE OF THAT IS--

I'VE FORGOTTEN
THEIR NAM ES--

BUT ONE GENERAL WAS
DROPPED WITH A SHOT

THROUGH THE HEAD,

AND ANOTHER GENERAL,
OR COLONEL--

I'VE FORGOTTEN WHICH--
LEANED OVER HIM

TO SEE HOW HE WAS DOING
AND ALSO GOT A SHOT

THROUGH THE HEAD
FROM THE SAME SHARPSHOOTER.

THE--THAT'S ANOTHER
INSTANCE OF THE WEAPONS

BEING SO FAR
IN ADVANCE OF THE TACTICS.

UH, NOWADAYS WE WOULD
KNOW TO STAY UNDER COVER

AT THE--
AT A RANGE LIKE THAT,

BUT THEN THEY THOUGHT
IT WAS PERFECTLY SAFE

TO BE AT A RANGE
LIKE THAT.

NOT SO.

WHAT'S THE GENERAL
OPINION OF SHARPSHOOTERS

IN EACH ARMY?

UH, SOLDIERS OF THAT WAR,
JUST AS SOLDIERS

IN ALL OTHER WARS,
HAVE DESPISED SHARPSHOOTERS,

EITHER THEIR OWN
OR THE ENEMY.

UH, THEY DON'T THINK
THEY HAVE ANYTHING TO DO

WITH THE OUTCOME
OF THE BATTLE,

AND AS FOR KILLING
AN INDIVIDUAL SOLDIER,

THEY DON'T SEE ANYTHING GOOD
ABOUT THAT IN ANY WAY,

ESPECIALLY IN WHAT'S
SORT OF A SNEAKY WAY.

I WANT TO MOVE
A LITTLE BIT AWAY,

AND, UM, WHAT HAPPENED
TO ROBERT GOULD SHAW'S
BODY?

IT WAS THROWN INTO
THE BURIAL TRENCH

WITH HIS BLACK SOLDIERS
PURPOSEFULLY.

CAN YOU ST—-SORT
OF RETELL THE STORY

FROM THE BEGINNING
WITHOUT MY LEADING YOU?

SHAW WAS FROM
A PROMINENT BOSTON FAMILY,

A STRONG ABOLITIONIST
IN VIEWS,

AND, UH, MANY BOSTONIANS
WERE NOT ABOLITIONISTS

BY A LONG SHOT
AND DISAPPROVED OF IT.

AND SHAW HAD
FOUGHT BEFORE.

HE HAD BEEN
AT CHANCELLORSVILLE,
FOR INSTANCE,

AND HE WAS GIVEN COMMAND
OF A NEGRO REGIMENT,

AND, UH, MARCHED
THROUGH BOSTON

ON THEIR WAY
DOWN THE COAST.

THEY WERE PROUD MEN,
THOSE BLACK SOLDIERS.

THEY REFUSED PAY,
SINCE IT WAS GONNA BE LESS

THAN WHAT
WHITE SOLDIERS GOT.

THEY REFUSED
TO TAKE ANY PAY AT ALL.

UM, SHAW LED THE--THE|R
ATTACK ON BATTERY WAGNER,

WHICH IS SOMETIMES HERE
CALLED "FORT WAGNER."

HE LED THE CHARGE.
THEY WERE CUT TO PIECES.

THEY NEVER SHOULD
HAVE MADE THAT
CHARGE, EITHER.

AND, UH, WHEN IT WAS
OVER, THE CONFEDERATES
WERE IN CONTROL.

AND, UH, THERE WAS
VERY HARD FEELING

AGAINST THE WHITE OFFICERS
OF BLACK REGIMENTS,

AND SHAW WAS SIMPLY
THROWN IN THE BURIAL PIT
WITH HIS SOLDIERS.

UH, SHAW'S FATHER
LATER SAID HE WAS PROUD

TO HAVE HIM
BURIED THAT WAY.

WHAT WAS LINCOLN'S
RESPONSE IN THE MOMENTS

AFTER THE GETTYSBURG
ADDRESS TO HIS OWN
ADDRESS AND PERFORMANCE?

HE FELT THAT HE FAILED,
THAT IT WAS A POOR SPEECH,

THAT THE PEOPLE
DIDN'T LIKE IT.

IT WAS SO BRIEF,
LESS THAN TWO MINUTES.

UH, HE--HE FELT
THAT HE HAD FAILED.

LAMON, HIS FRIEND,
WARD LAMON, WAS SITTING NEXT

TO HIM ON THE STAND,

AND WHEN HE SAT DOWN,
THERE WAS JUST

A SPRINKLING
OF APPLAUSE.

AND HE SAID, "LAMON,
THAT SPEECH WON'T SCOUR."

THAT'S WHAT YOU
SAY ABOUT A PLOW

IN THE PRAIRIES
WHEN THE MUD

DOESN'T COME OFF IT.

I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT CONSCRIPTION.

YOU SAID TO ME BEFORE
THAT CONSCRIPTION

WAS ASHOCK
AND ALSO THAT ABE,

FATHER ABE, GOT
A $300 EXEMPTION.

IF YOU COULD MAYBE JUST
TALK A LITTLE BIT

ABOUT THE DRAFT.

UH, CONSCRIPTION WAS
LOOKED ON IN THE SOUTH,

WHERE THEY HAD IT FIRST,

AS THE--AS
THE COMPLETE DOWNFALL

OF DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM,
AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

WHEN THE CONSCRIPTION LAWS
WERE PASSED,

SOME OF THE SOUTHERN
POLITICIANS, ESPECIALLY

THE FlRE-EATERS,
SAID IT MEANT THE END

OF INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY
IN THE CONFEDERACY.

THEY WERE TOTALLY
OPPOSED TO IT,

BUT OF COURSE, IT WAS
IMPOSSIBLE TO FIGHT

WITHOUT CONSCRIPTION.

JEFFERSON DAVIS MADE
AGOOD SPEECH

ABOUT, UH, HOW NOBODY
WAS GONNA SIT BACK

WHILE ONLY THE HEROES
DID THE FIGHTING.

AND ABRAHAM LINCOLN
HAD A SUBSTITUTE

OR BOUGHT A SUBSTITUTE.

|--|--|'VE HEARD THAT,
BUT I DON'T KNOW IT.

UM, WHAT DID STANTON
SAY ABOUT SERVICE TO
ONE'S COUNTRY?

THERE WAS SOMETHING
ABOUT THE PRISON CELL--

THERE WERE A GREAT MANY
MEN THROWN INTO PRISONS

UNDER SUSPICION
OF SEDITION AND THERE--

THIS AND THAT
AND THE OTHER,

AND WHEN IT WAS
PROTESTED TO STANTON,

WHO HAD THROWN MOST
OF THEM IN THERE--

WHEN IT WAS PROTESTED
TO HIM, HE SAID,

"| THINKA MAN CAN
SERVE HIS COUNTRY

IN PRISON AS WELL AS
ANYWHERE ELSE."

STONES RIVER.
WHAT HAPPENS THERE?

WHAT'S THE OUTCOME?
IS IT IMPORTANT?

STONES RIVER,
THE CONFEDERATES USUALLY

CALL IT MURFREESBORO,

AND IT WAS
TREMENDOUSLY IMPORTANT.

IT'S ONE
OF THE GREAT BATTLES.

IT'S ONE OF THE GREAT
NEGLECTED BATTLES.

UH, SO--SO MANY
WESTERN BATTLES
ARE NEGLECTED.

STONES RIVER WAS
A HUGE FIGHT.

UH, SHERIDAN IS ONE
OF THE STARS

OF STONES RIVER.

UH, THERE AGAIN, IT'S
A GOOD CHANCE TO STUDY

WESTERN-STYLE FIGHTING.

IT'S A GREAT BATTLE.

WHAT'S THE OUTCOME?

THE OUTCOME WAS
THE USUAL OUTCOME
WITH BRAGG.

IT WAS FOLLOWED
BY A RETREAT.

WHAT DID, UH, JACKSON
SAY ON HIS DEATHBED?

AND--AND ALSO,
BACK UP A LITTLE BIT,

AND REMIND ME
ABOUT A.P. HILL, TOO.

WHEN JACKSON LAY DYING,
WHAT'S THE SCENE?

THE SCENE IS
IN A BEDROOM IN WHICH,

UH, HE'S COMING IN
AND OUT OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

UH, PNEUMONIA IS
WHAT HE DIED OF,

NOT THE LOSS
OF HIS ARM,

AND, UH, HIS WIFE GOT
THERE TO BE WITH HIM.

AND THE SURGEON,
DR. MCGUIRE, TOLD, UH,

MRS. JACKSON THAT
HER HUSBAND WOULD
DIE THAT DAY.

AND, UH, SHE TOLD HIM--
SAID, UH, "THE DOCTOR

SAYS THAT YOU WON'T
LAST THE DAY OUT."

AND HE SAID, UH,
"OH, NO, MY CHILD.

IT'S NOT THAT SERIOUS."

AND HE WENT OFF INTO
SOME SORT OF SLEEPING
AND DELIRIUM.

PNEUMONIAAFFECTS
PEOPLE IN STRANGE WAYS.

AND THEN FINALLY SHE
SAID,

"YOU WILL BE
WITH THE LORD THIS DAY."

AND HE CALLED THE DOCTOR
OVER AND HE SAYS,

UH, "DOCTOR MCGUIRE,
MY WIFE TELLS ME

I'M GONNA DIE TODAY.
IS THAT TRUE?"

AND THE DOCTOR SAID,
UH, "YES, IT IS."

AND HE SAID, UH,
"GOOD. VERY GOOD.

I ALWAYS WANTED TO
DIE ON A SUNDAY."

AND WHEN THEY OFFERED
HIM BRANDY OR MORPHINE,

HE SAID, "NO. I WANT TO
KEEP MY MIND CLEAR."

AND, UH, THE LAST THING
IS SAID IS SORT OF--

HE--HE--HE WANDERED
IN HIS MIND.

HE WAS CALLING
ON A.P. HILL,

"PREPARE FOR ACTION."

AND THEN ALL
OF A SUDDEN HE WAS QUIET,

VERY QUIET FOR A SPELL.

AND HE SAID
IN A CLEAR, DISTINCT VOICE,

"LET US CROSS
OVER THE RIVER

AND REST UNDER THE SHADE
OF THE TREES,"

AND THEN DIED.

PERFECT TIMING.
WOW.

THANK YOU.
THAT WAS GREAT.

MAN: CUT!

MARCH 28, 1987,
AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES,

PROJECT TITLE "CIVIL WAR,"

CAMERA ROLL 178,
SOUND ROLL 36,

INTERVIEW
WITH SHELBY FOOTE,

RECORDED 7 1/2 IPS, FLAT,
-8 DB REFERENCE TONE TO FOLLOW.

Foote: 10,000 UNITS.

SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

SLATE.

CAN YOU PARAPHRASE
WHAT YOUR
FRIEND SAID?

UH, WILLIAM FAULKNER
IN "INTRUDER IN THE DUST"

SAYS THAT FOR EVERY
SOUTHERN BOY IT'S ALWAYS

IN HIS REACH TO IMAGINE
IT BEING 1:00

ON AN EARLY JULY DAY
IN 1863.

THE GUNS ARE LAID,

AND THE TROOPS
ARE LINED UP,

THE FLAGS ARE ALREADY
OUT OF THEIR CASES

AND READY TO BE UNFURLED,

BUT IT HASN'T
HAPPENED YET,

AND, UH, HE CAN GO BACK
TO THE TIME

BEFORE THE WAR
WAS GONNA BE LOST,

AND HE CAN ALWAYS HAVE
THAT MOMENT FOR HIMSELF.

IT'S A--|T'S
A GOOD STATEMENT OF IT.

AND YOU HAVE TO READ IT
IN THE ORIGINAL TO GET
THE REAL NOTION OF IT.

MAN: CAN YOU, LIKE, PAUSE
FOR JUST A SECOND?

SURE.

LET ME DO THIS.
THINK IT'S ALL
RIGHT, THOUGH.

OK. CONTINUE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT
THE BLOODBATH
AT CHICKAMAUGA

AND TELL ME WHAT
"CHICKAMAUGA" MEANS?

"CHICKAMAUGA" IS,
LIKE, ALL INDIAN WORDS,

INTERPRETED TO MEAN
"THE RIVER OF DEATH."

MEANS--GOD KNOWS
WHAT IT REALLY MEANS.

YOU--YOU CAN
TRANSLATE INDIAN WORDS

ALMOST ANY WAY.

UH, BUT CHICKAMAUGA MAY
HAVE BEEN--

THE SECOND DAY
AT CHICKAMAUGA MAY

HAVE BEEN THE BLOODIEST
DAY OF THE WAR.

SHARPSBURG
IS OFTEN CALLED

THE BLOODIEST DAY
OF THE WAR,

AND YOU CAN MAKE
GOOD AND VALID CLAIMS

FOR SHARPSBURG BECAUSE
IT WAS A ON E-DAY BATTLE.

CHICKAMAUGA WAS
A TWO-DAY BATTLE,

AND OF COURSE,
THE CASUALTIES WERE

MUCH HEAVIER,

BUT IF YOU DIVIDE THEM UP
AS I THINK THEY WERE--

PROBABLY 2/3
OF THEM WERE

ON THE SECOND DAY--

THEN THAT'S THE BLOODIEST
DAY OF THE WAR.

CHICKAMAUGA WAS
A HORRENDOUS BATTLE.

VERY--A LOT
OF BREAKTHROUGHS,

A LOT OF
HAND-TO-HAND COMBAT,

A LONG, RAGGED RETREAT,

UH, A GLORIOUS
SOUTHERN VICTORY,

WHICH WAS UNEXPLOITED.

UH, AND ALL THE WESTERN
HEROES WERE THERE,

FROM FORREST ON DOWN.

UH, |T--|T WAS--|T'S--
IT'S A GREAT BATTLE.

WHO'S ON THE NORTH?
WHAT'S HAPPENING
UP THERE?

ROSECRANS WAS THE COMMANDER
AND VARIOUS PEOPLE.

GEORGE THOMAS WAS
RESPONSIBLE FOR HOLDING

HIS GROUND
AND THEREFORE NOT MAKING

THE BATTLE A TOTAL ROUTE.

UH, SHERIDAN
WAS THERE,

UH, VARIOUS
OF THOSE GENERALS.

THE SOUTH BEGINS TO
CRUMBLE FROM WITHIN

JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE
BEING SQUEEZED,

AND WE HAVE THINGS LIKE,
UH, FOOD RIOTS,

AND, UH,
THINGS LIKE THAT.

CAN YOU PAINT THAT
KIND OF INTERNAL SORT

OF BREAKING UP
IN THE SOUTH?

WHAT'S HAPPENING?

WHAT ARE
THE MANIFESTATIONS?

ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT HAPPENED

IN THE SOUTH IN
THE COURSE OF THE WAR--

AND THIS HAPPENED
VERY EARLY--

IT HAD BEGUN
WITH THE NOTION THAT

NORTHERNERS WOULD
NOT FIGHT

AND THAT SOUTHERNERS--
ONE SOUTHERN SOLDIER COULD

WHIP 12 YANKEES
AND SO FORTH,

AND THEY VERY SOON
REALIZED THERE WAS

NO TRUTH IN THAT STATEMENT,

AND IT CAME AS
A GREAT SHOCK TO THEM.

AND THINGS BEGAN
TO CLOSE IN ON THEM
MORE AND MORE.

UH, THERE WAS SCARCELY
A FAMILY THAT

HADN'T LOST SOMEONE.

UH, THERE WAS, UH...
A DISRUPTION OF SOCIETY.

THE BLOCKADE
WAS WORKING.

THEY COULDN'T GET
VERY SIMPLE THINGS LIKE

NEEDLES TO SEW WITH,
UH, VERY SIMPLE THINGS.

AND, UH, THE DISCOURAGEMENT
BEGAN TO SETTLE IN

MORE AND MORE
WITH THE REALIZATION

THAT THEY WERE NOT
GONNA WIN THAT WAR.

UH, THEIR POLITICAL
LEADERS DID EVERYTHING

THEY COULD, ESPECIALLY
JEFFERSON DAVIS,

TO ASSURE THEM THAT
THIS WAS THE SECOND

AMERICAN REVOLUTION

AND IF THEY WOULD, UH,
STAND FAST THE WAY

THEIR FOREFATHERS HAD
THE VICTORY WAS

UNQUESTIONABLY
GONNA COME,

BUT THE REALIZATION CAME
MORE AND MORE THAT

IT WAS NOT GONNA COME,
ESPECIALLY THAT THEY

WERE NOT GONNA GET
FOREIGN RECOGNITION,

WITHOUT WHICH WE
WOULDN'T HAVE WON

THE FIRST REVOLUTION.

AND ALL THOSE THINGS
CLOSED IN ON THEM.

SO WHAT WAS HAPPENING?
WHAT WERE SOME

OF THE MANIFESTATIONS
OF THAT?

UH, IT WAS
A REALIZATION THAT DEFEAT

WAS FOREORDAINED.

UH, ONE--MRS. CHESNUT,
FOR INSTANCE,

SAID, "IT'S LIKE
IN A GREEK TRAGEDY,

"WHERE YOU KNOW WHAT
THE OUTCOME IS BOUND TO BE,

AND WE ARE LIVING
IN GREEK TRAGEDY."

WHAT'S WRONG
WITH ROBERT E. LEE?

WHAT ARE HIS FAULTS?

|T'S--|T'S DIFFICULT TO
DEFINE A FAULT OF LEE'S

BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS
BALANCED BYAVIRTUE,

BUT SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER,
LEE'S LACK OF, UH--

OF INTELLECTUAL HUMOR
|S--|S A SORT
OF LACK IN HIM.

HE MAY HAVE HAD IT,
BUT WE'VE LOST IT, YOU SEE?

UH, HE--HE, UH--HE DOES
SEEM TO LACK THAT,

SOMETHING THAT SHERMAN,
FOR EXAMPLE HAD,

AND EVEN GRANT.

UH, GRANT WAS CAPABLE
OF SAYING SOME

VERY FUNNY THINGS.

HE ONCE SAID HE ONLY
KNEW TWO TUNES,

AND ALL HE KNEW WAS ONE
OF THEM "YANKEE DOODLE,"

AND THE OTHER WASN'T.

UH, LEE NEVER SAID
ANYTHING FAINTLY
RESEMBLING THAT.

UH, SHERMAN WOULD SAY
ATHING LIKE, UH,

"VOX POPULI, VOX HUMBUG."

UH, BUT LEE--LEE--THERE--
THERE IS NO LEE QUOTE

RESEMBLING THOSE THINGS.

SPEAKING OF U.S. GRANT,
CAN YOU DESCRIBE

THE SCENE OF HIS ARRIVAL
AT THE WILLARD HOTEL

IN, UH, MARCH OF '64?

HE SIMPLY CAME IN.

HIS, UH, SON WAS WITH HIM,

AND ROLLINS WAS
WITH HIM, ITHINK,

AND HE WAS IN A RATHER
WEATHERED UNIFORM.

HE DIDN'T HAVE
HIS 3 STARS ON YET

BECAUSE HE WASN'T GOING
TO GET HIS COMMISSION

UNTIL THE NEXT DAY,

BUT HE JUST WALKED
UP TO THE DESK

AND ASKED FOR A ROOM,

AND, UH, THERE HAD BEEN
AGREAT MANY GENERALS

IN AND OUT OF WILLARD'S.

PRACTICALLY ALL OF THEM
HAD BEEN IN AND OUT
OF WILLARD'S.

AND THE DESK CLERK, UH, SAID,
"WELL, I'VE GOT SOMETHING

UP ON THE TOP FLOOR,
IF THAT WILL DO,"

AND GRANT SAID,
"THAT WILL DO FINE,"

AND HE GAVE HIM
THE REGISTER TO SIGN,

AND GRANT SIGNED IT.

AND WHEN THE CLERK LOOKED DOWN
AND SAW "U.S. GRANT AND SON,

GALENA, ILLINOIS,"

HIS EYES BUGGED OUT
OF HIS HEAD.

WHY DID IT TAKE GRANT SO
LONG TO REACH RICHMOND?

THE GENIUS
OF ROBERT E. LEE.

MAN: CAN WE PAUSE
ONCE AGAIN?

YEAH. AND SET IT
UP--| MEAN NOT
SET IT UP,

BUT JUST SAY,
"THE GENIUS OF
ROBERT E. LEE"--

THE GENlU--THE GENIUS
OF ROBERT E. LEE IS WHY

IT TOOK GRANT SO LONG TO
TAKE RICHMOND.

UH, GRANT SAID HE
INTENDED TO FIGHT IT OUT

ON THIS LINE IF IT
TAKES ALL SUMMER.

HE STAYED ON THAT
LINE ABOUT 3 DAYS.

HEH HEH HEH.

|T'S--UH, IT IS--
LEE'S GENERALSHIP

IN DEFENSIVE WARFARE
FROM THE RAPIDAN

TO THE JAMES IS, UH,
NEAR MIRACULOUS.

UH, IT'S AS IF HE LIVED
IN GRANT'S MIND,

KNEW WHAT HE WAS GONNA
DO BEFORE HE DID IT.

WHAT WAS SHERIDAN
DOING IN THE VALLEY?

HE WAS SENT THERE
TO CLEAR IT OUT
ONCE AND FOR ALL.

UH, HIS INSTRUCTIONS
WERE TO STRIP IT

SO CLEAN THAT A CROW
FLYING ACROSS IT WOULD

HAVE TO CARRY HIS
OWN PROVENDER.

AND HE CAME
CLOSE TO DOING IT.

WHY DID ANDERSONVILLE
HAPPEN?

ANDERSONVILLE
HAPPENED, UH, BECAUSE

OF THE SCARCITY OF FOOD,

BECAUSE OF THE LARGE
NUMBER OF PRISONERS,

UH, WHICH THE SOUTH WAS
NOT ABLE TO LOOK AFTER.

UH, THE PRISONER
AT ANDERSONVILLE GOT

THE SAME RATION THAT
THE CONFEDERATE SOLDIER GOT,

BUT HE WAS NOT ABLE
TO FORAGE AROUND

FOR WILD GREENS
AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

UH, |T--|T WAS A DIRECT
RESULT OF GRANT REFUSING

TO EXCHANGE
PRISONERS ANY LONGER.

UH, AND HE HAD EVERY
RIGHT TO REFUSE THAT

BECAUSE IT WAS A HUGE
NORTHERN ADVANTAGE.

SWAPPING MAN FOR MAN
WAS A BAD--A BAD THING
FOR HIM TO DO.

SO THEY HAD THE PROBLEM
OF THE OVERCROWDING,

AND, UH, THEY HAD TO GET
THEM THAT FAR

FROM THE FRONT LINES
SO THAT ESCAPEES

WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET
OVER THE LINE.

UH, I HAVE NEVER
BELIEVED,

UH, THAT ANYBODY WAS
PURPOSELY CRUEL TO THOSE MEN.

UH, AGREAT DEAL
OF THE TROUBLE WAS
THE MEN THEMSELVES.

THEY HAD COMPLETELY LOST
DISCIPLINE IN THE CAMP.

AND NO WONDER,
THE CONDITIONS THEY WERE

LIVING UNDER,

BUT IF THEY HAD BEEN--
HAD MILITARY ORGANIZATION--

AND YOU MUST REMEMBER,
THERE WERE NO
OFFICERS THERE.

THEY WERE ALL ENLISTED MEN
IN THAT CAMP.

UH, THEY WOULD HAVE DONE
A LOT BETTER, ESPECIALLY

FOR SANITARY REASONS.

AT ANDERSONVILLE,
THERE WERE MOBS

OF, UH--OF MEN WHO,
UH, ATTACKED OTHER GROUPS,

AND, UH, TERRIBLE
THINGS WENT ON THERE.

ATERRIBLE CHAPTER.

AND THE--THE--THE
REFUSAL TO--TO EXCHANGE

IS A--THE|R
DEATH SENTENCE.
RIGHT.

ANOTHER DEATH
SENTENCE IS THE STATE

OF MEDICAL CARE.

CAN YOU TALK
ABOUT THAT?

UH, I DON'T KNOWA LOT
ABOUT MEDICAL CARE.

UH, WHEN YOU SEE
THE INSTRUMENTS THAT

THE DOCTORS USED IN SURGERY,
IT'S ENOUGH TO MAKE

YOUR HAIR STAND ON END,
THE BONE SAWS AND THINGS.

UH, I'M SURE THEY DID
THEY BEST THEY COULD.

IN MANY INSTANCES,
ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE,

THEY DIDN'T HAVE
MEDICINES TO USE.

LACK OF CHLOROFORM,
FOR INSTANCE,

DURING AMPUTATIONS,
IS A HORRIBLE THING

TO CONTEMPLATE.

UH, I THINK THAT
THEY DID VERY WELL,

CONSIDERING THAT THEY
DIDN'T EVEN HAVE

THE GERM THEORY.

UH, CHIMBORAZO HOSPITAL
IN RICHMOND IS SUPPOSED

TO HAVE BEEN THE FINEST
MILITARY HOSPITAL

UP TILL THAT TIME
IN HISTORY.

UH, THEY--THEY—-THEY
DID THE BEST THEY COULD,

ISUPPOSE.

BUT THE SUFFERING
WAS--WAS INCREDIBLE.

SHELBY, WHAT'S
A COPPERHEAD?

A COPPERHEAD IS A--
A PERSON WHO IS OPPOSED

TO THE WAR IN THE
FIRST PLACE

AND IN THE SECOND PLACE,
INCLINED TO BE

PRO-SOUTHERN
IN HIS BELIEFS.

NOT NECESSARILY, THOUGH,
JUST OPPOSED TO THE WAR

MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE,

AND THEY WERE
CALLED COPPERHEADS

BECAUSE THEY WOULD TAKE
APENNY AND, UH, MAKE

A LAPEL PIN OF IT BY
CUTTING OUT THE HEAD

AND UH--AND, UH, NOT
ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S HEAD,

THE WAY IT IS
ON THE PENNY NOWADAYS,

BUT WHATEVER IT
WAS ON THE PENNY.

AND THAT WAS THE PIN
THAT THEY WORE TO

IDENTIFY EACH OTHER.

WHAT DID LEE SEE--SAY
ABOUT THE COMMITTEE

ON THE CONDUCT
OF THE WAR?

YOU MEAN LINCOLN?

THAT'S A NORTHERN THING.

OH, ABOUT--L|KE,
IT'S LIKE HAVING

TWO DIVISIONS
OR SOMETHING?

I THOUGHT IT WAS LEE.

DON'T--DON'T KNOW THAT.

UM, WHAT'S THE STORY
ABOUT NASHVILLE,

AND "HOLD THE HILL
AT ANY COST"?

IT'S JUST AN EXAMPLE
OF THE STILTED WAY MEN SPOKE.

YOU SCARCELY BELIEVE IT.

UH, HOOD--ON THE SECOND
DAY, UH, THERE WAS

ATEXAS OUTFIT.

AND HE SAID, UH,
"I WANT YOU TO HOLD

THIS HILL AT ALL COSTS."

AND THE COLONEL
COMMANDING THE REGIMENT

THAT WAS GIVEN
THE ASSIGNMENT SAID,

UH, "GENERAL, WE WILL
ENDEAVOR TO DO

OUR BEST
UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES."

AND IT'S, UH,
THAT KIND OF TALK,

AND I'M SURE THEY
DID TALK THAT WAY,

BUT IT'S HARD
TO BELIEVE.

WHAT HAPPENED
AT NASHVILLE?

OR FRANKLIN IS A BETTER
EXAM--A BETTER BATTLE.

FRANKLIN IS
A HORRENDOUS BATTLE.

THE CHARGE AT FRANKLIN,
UH, WAS A MUCH MORE

DIFFICULT CHARGE
THAN LEE'S CHARGE

AT GETTYSBURG,
AND THE CASUALTIES
WERE AS HIGH,

AND THE FLOWER
OF THE ARMY FELL.

THERE'S A STRONG
SUSPICION THAT HOOD

WAS TRYING TO DISCIPLINE
HIS ARMY BY STAGING

THAT CHARGE AT FRANKLIN.

AND THERE'S SOME
TRUTH IN IT.

UH, HE WAS EXASPERATED
BY WHAT HAD HAPPENED

AT SPRING HILL
SHORTLY BEFORE THAT,

AND, UH, THE IDEA WAS
HE PUT THE IRON TO THEM.

HIS--H|S ARMY
WAS WRECKED,

AND THE--THE DEFEAT
AT NASHVILLE WAS

IN LARGE PART DUE
TO WHAT HAD HAPPENED

AT FRANKLIN
A MONTH BEFORE.

CUT, PLEASE.
RUN-OUT.

NOW WE'LL TAKE A--

MAN: MARCH 28, 1987,
AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES,

PROJECT TITLE "CIVIL WAR,"

CAMERA ROLL 179,
SOUND ROLL 37,

CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW
WITH SHELBY FOOTE,

RECORDED FLAT 7 1/2 IPS,
-8 DB REFERENCE TONE TO FOLLOW.

SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

SLATE.

SHELBY, | WAS AT LUNCH
A FEW MINUTES AGO,

AND I WAS TALKING
TO A FELLOW

ABOUT, UH, SOME
LINCOLN STORY

ABOUTA BAPTIST
PREACHER.

WHAT'S THAT STORY?

UH, LINCOLN TOLD IT
IN CONNECTION

WITH HIS SECRETARY OF WAR
EDWIN STANTON,

WHO WAS A VERY
VOLATILE, JUMPING ABOUT,

UH, VEHEMENT SORT
OF PERSON.

AND SOMEONE, UH, TOLD
LINCOLN THEY THOUGHT

HE WAS HYPERACTIVE.

AND LINCOLN SAID, "YEAH,
HE PUTS ME IN MIND

"OF A PREACHER
IN ILLINOIS.

"HE WAS A FIRE
AND BRIMSTONE PREACHER,

"AND HE USED TO JUMP
UP AND DOWN A LOT,

"AND THE CONGREGATION
DECIDED SOMETHING HAD

"TO BE DONE ABOUT IT,
SO THEY PUT BRICKS

IN HIS COAT POCKETS
TO HOLD HIM DOWN."

HE SAID, "WE MAY HAVE
TO DO THAT TO STANTON

SOONER OR LATER."

HEH HEH.

WHAT ABOUT
JACKSON'S STATEMENT

AT FREDERICKSBURG?

WHAT WAS--WHAT
DID HE SAY?

WELL, AFTER THE BATTLE
OF FREDERICKSBURG, THE--

WHY DON'T YOU
START AGAIN?
I'M SORRY.

ISTEPPED
ON YOUR LINE.

AFTER THE BATTLE
OF FREDERICKSBURG,

THE CONFEDERATES WENT BACK
INTO THE TOWN,

AND THEY SAW ALL
THE DAMAGE THAT
HAD BEEN DONE

DURING THE UNION OCCUPATION
OF THE TOWN.

IT WAS A GREAT DEAL
OF DAMAGE, REAL VANDALISM,

AND THEY WERE SHOCKED,

AND, UH, SOMEONE
ON JACKSON'S STAFF SAID,

"HOW ARE GONNA PUT
AN END TO ALL THIS

KIND OF THING?"

AND JACKSON
SAID, "KILL THEM.

KILL THEM ALL."

WHAT HAPPENED WHEN
ENLISTMENTS CAME UP?

WHAT DID MEN DO?

HOW DO YOU MEAN?

WELL, I MEAN, DID
THEY TAKE OFF?

DID THEY RUN AWAY
WHEN THEIR

ENLISTMENTS COME OUT?

DID THEY JUST
LEAVE BATTLE?

OH, THERE-THERE WAS
NO EXPIRATION

OF ENLISTMENTS
ON THE CONFEDERATE SIDE.

THEY WERE
IN FOR THE WAR.

THERE WERE EXPIRATION
OF ENLISTMENTS

ON THE UNION SIDE
AND PLENTY OF THEM.

AND, UH--FOR INSTANCE,
IN THE TRENCHES AT, UH--

AT COLD HARBOR, THERE
WERE MEN WHOSE TIME

WAS UP IN THE MIDDLE
OF THE BOTTLE--THE BATTLE

AND LEFT, CRAWLING
ON ALL FOURS TO KEEP

FROM BEING KILLED WHILE
YOU'RE GETTING AWAY.

THERE WAS A LOT OF THAT,

AND THERE WAS ALSO A LOT
OF CAMPAIGNING FOR THEM

TO SIGN ON
FOR ANOTHER HITCH,

AND MANY DID.

COULD YOU REMIND ME
OF THE TERROR

THAT FARMERS FELT
IN NEW YORK--

UPPER NEW YORK STATE

ABOUT GOING
TO THE POST OFFICE,

AND REMEMBER MY
QUESTION'S NOT IN IT?

THE POSTING OF CASUALTY
LISTS IN TOWNS

ALL OVER AMERICA,
NORTH AND SOUTH, WAS

A—-|T MUST HAVE BEEN
A HORRENDOUS EXPERIENCE,

PEOPLE, UH, LOOKING,
AND DISMAYED

BY FINDING NAMES ON IT

AND ELATED BY NOT
FINDING NAMES ON IT.

THEY WERE POSTED
IN SOME CENTRAL LOCATION,

USUALLY, PROBABLY
THE POST OFFICE.

UH, IT WAS A—-A--A THING
THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN

ANYTHING LIKE
IT SINCE THEN.

UH, YOU MUST REMEMBER,
THERE WERE WELL OVER

A MILLION CASUALTIES
IN A COUNTRY THAT WAS

APPROXIMATELY
30 OR 35 MILLION PEOPLE,

AND, UH, THAT'S--THAT—-
THAT INVOLVES

AN AWFUL LOT
OF FAMILIES.

IN THE SOUTH ESPECIALLY,
THERE WAS SCARCELY

A FAMILY THAT WASN'T
TOUCHED BY DEATH

IN THAT WAR.

TELL ME WHAT HAPPENS TO
ATOWN THAT MIGHT LOSE

ALL ITS MEN WHO
WERE CLUSTERED

IN ONE REGIMENT AND THE
REGIMENT GOT DESTROYED?

YOU--YOU--YOU DO HAVE,
UH, A BIG PROBLEM

WHEN YOU HAVE UNITS
THAT ARE FROM STATES

AND COUNTIES
AND EVEN TOWNS,

AND ONE OF THOSE
REGIMENTS CAN GET

IN A VERY TIGHT SPOT
IN A PARTICULAR BATTLE,

LIKE IN THE CORNFIELD
AT SHARPSBURG,

AND THE NEWS MAY BE
THAT THERE ARE
NO MORE YOUNG MEN

IN THAT TOWN.

UH, THEY'RE ALL DEAD.

AND THAT HAPPENED,
UH, TO UNITS.

UH, CLARKSVILLE,
TENNESSEE, | ONCE SAW

SOME FIGURES ON HOW MANY
MEN THEY SENT TO WAR

AND HOW MANY CAME BACK,
AND YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE--

YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE

THE LOW NUMBER
THAT CAME BACK.

DIDN'T THE SOUTH HAVE
A LOT OF REAL CRAZY
ESPIONAGE SCHEMES

FOR BLOWING THINGS UP
AND KIDNAP?

THEY--THEY HAD
A LOT OF SCHEMES.

THE ST. ALBANS THING
IN VERMONT IS THE ONLY ONE

THAT WAS REALLY CARRIED OUT
AS A MILITARY OPERATION.

UH, THERE WERE
OTHER THINGS.

THERE WAS A KIND
OF A CIA, UH, OPERATING.

UH, BEN BUTLER'S
HEADQUARTERS BOAT NEARLY

GOT BLOWN UP BYA BOMB
THAT WAS, UH, MADE

TO RESEMBLE A PIECE OF COAL
AND THROWN IN

AMONG THE COAL THAT
THE STEVEDORES

WERE THROWING
IN THE BOILER.

AND IT WENT OFF,
BUT IT DIDN'T DO

AS MUCH DAMAGE
AS THEY HAD CALCULATED ON.

THERE WAS A CLOCKWORK,
UH, MECHANISM SET

AT GRANT'S HEADQUARTERS
AT CITY POINT.

IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST
TERRIFIC EXPLOSIONS
OF THE WAR.

IT WAS A SMALL
ClGAR-BOX-SIZE THING

FULL OF BLACK POWDER,

BUT IT SET OFF A LOT
OF OTHER AMMUNITION.

THEY DESCRIBED |T—-
AND I'VE HEARD ABOUT |T—-

IT BLEW UP A—-
ASUPPLY BOAT

WHICH HAD AVERY LARGE
NUMBER OF SADDLES ON IT,

AND THEY SAID
THE SADDLES WERE FLYING

THROUGH THE AIR LIKE BATS.

HA HA HA!

ALL THE AIR WAS FILLED
WITH FLYING SADDLES.

AND DIDN'T THEY WANT TO
KIDNAP LINCOLN

AND BURN DOWN NEW YORK?

NO. UH, THE--THE--THE PLAN
TO BURN DOWN NEW YORK

WAS, I THINK, A--A SORT
OF PLAN BYA GROUP OF--

OF SOME SORT, NOT OFFICIAL.

THE ST. ALBANS THING
WAS OFFICIAL,

AND THEY CARRIED,
UM, WHAT THEY CALLED VIALS

OF GREEK FIRE
TO THROW THAT WOULD BURN,

AND THERE WAS SOME
ATTEMPT TO BURN DOWN

BARNUM'S AND A COUPLE
OF OTHER PLACES

IN NEW YORK,

BUT IT WAS NOT
SUCCESSFUL AT ALL.

WHAT'S THE DOUBLE CANNON
THING, WHERE THEY WANTED

TO HOOK UP--WHOSE
IDEA WAS THAT?

AND DESCRIBE IT.

OH, THEY HAD MANY
CRAZY IDEAS, UH, ALONG

WITH SOME GOOD ONES.

UH, THERE WAS PLAN
TO USE TWO CANNON,

EACH WITH A CANNONBALL,
AND THE TWO CANNONBALLS

CONNECTED BY A CHAIN.

AND YOU WOULD FIRE
THE TWO CANNONS

AT THE SAME TIME,
AND THE BALLS WOULD GO OUT,

AND THE CHAIN BETWEEN
THEM WOULD JUST CUT

A SWATH THROUGH
EVERYTHING IN THE WAY.

THE TROUBLE WAS,
ONE CANNON, OF COURSE,

WENT OFF
BEFORE THE OTHER ONE DID,

WITH THE RESULT
THAT THE BALL WENT
AROUND IN A CIRCLE

FROM THE OTHER CANNON.

HOW WAS SHERMAN'S
MARCH A DE--NEW
DEPARTURE IN WAR?

IT WAS NOT REALLY
A NEW DEPARTURE.

UH, SHERMAN HAD MADE
AVERY SIMILAR MARCH

IN MISSISSIPPI
WHEN HE WENT UP TO MERIDIAN

AND BACK AFTER
THE VICKSBURG SIEGE.

UH, GRANT MADE A MARCH
SIMILAR TO THAT

DURING THE EARLY STAGES
OF THE VICKSBURG CAMPAIGN.

GRIERSON'S RAID DOWN
THROUGH THE LENGTH

OF THE MISSISSIPPI
TO BATON ROUGE WAS

ASIMILAR THING.

IT HAD BEEN
THE CUMULATIVE EVIDENCE

THAT AN ARMY COULD SUBSIST
ITSELF ON WHAT WAS

GROWING IN THE FIELDS,
WINTER OR SUMMER.

AND, UH, THEY--THEY WERE
A—-A MOVING CITY, LIKE.

THEY WOULD GRIND
THEIR OWN CORN, UH,

AT THE GRIST MILLS
ALONG THE WAY,

UH, BUTCHER
THEIR OWN CATTLE,

AND, UH, THEY WERE--THEY
WERE--THEY WERE SAT--

SHERMAN WAS PERFECTLY
SATISFIED HE COULD MAKE

THE MARCH WITHOUT DIFFICULTY
WITH REGARD TO SUPPLIES.

IN FACT, THEY--UH, THEY
ATE BETTER ON THAT MARCH

THAN THEY DID
NOT MARCHING.

SWEET POTATOES
WERE PARTICULARLY
PRIZED AND PORK.

THEY HAD PLENTY TO EAT.

LET'S CUT FOR THAT
PLANE. AHEM.

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

SLATE.

WHAT WAS
THE OBJECTIVE
OF THE MARCH?

WHAT--WHAT DID
HE WANT TO DO?

THEY WANTED TO DO
2 OR 3 THINGS.

ONE OF THEM, OF COURSE,
WAS TO MOVE OVER

TO THE EAST AND JOIN GRANT
FOR PUTTING THE--

PUT AN END TO THE ARMY
OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA
UNDER LEE.

THAT WAS ONE THING.

THE OTHER WAS TO CLOSE
THE EASTERN SEABOARD.

UH, THE MARCH WAS
FROM ATLANTA TO THE SEA,

AND WHEN THEY REACHED
THE SEA, THEY WOULD

CLOSE DOWN THE VARIOUS
PORTS THERE, UH,

THE--THE FEW THAT
WERE STILL OPEN.

AND THE THIRD
AND PROBABLY MOST
IMPORTANT THING,

ALTHOUGH THEY
MAY NOT HAVE REALIZED IT

AT THE INCEPTION,
WAS TO WIN THE ELECTION.

YOU KNOW, WHATEVER WAS
COMING UP POLITICALLY,

IT WOULD
BE A GREAT COUP,

AND IT WOULD--UH,
IT WOULD, UH, DO A LOT,

JUST AS TAKING ATLANTA
HAD WON LINCOLN
THE ELECTION,

80 THIS WOULD WIN
THE--THE MIDTERM ELECTION

THAT WOULD BE COMING UP
OR ANYHOW

GIVE THE ARMY
A GOOD PRESS.

WHAT'S
THE BILL ARP JOKE?

UH, BILLARP, UH, WAS
ACONFEDERATE HUMORIST,

AND HE WAS A SOLDIER
AND--AND A HUMORIST,

AND WHEN THE WAR WAS OVER,
HE SAID--THE QUOTE |S--

"I'VE KILLED
AS MANY OF THEM

"AS THEY HAVE OF ME.

I'M GOING HOME."

THERE'S ALSO
A PARTICULARLY
INTERESTING, UH, COMMENT

ABOUT--THAT SOMEONE MADE
THAT'S VERY NICE

ABOUT THE MOON
AFTER THE WAR.

WHAT IS THAT STORY?

DON'T REMEMBER.

ABOUT IT BEING--YOU
SHOULD HAVE SEEN IT
BEFORE THE WAR?

OH, "YOU SHOULD HAVE
SEEN IT BEFORE THE WAR."

YEAH, THAT'S THE JOKE.
YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

UH, CAN YOU--CAN
YOU TELL THAT JOKE?

WELL, |T—-|T—-
"BEFORE THE WAR" WAS

AN EXPRESSION THAT YOU
HEARD ALL THE TIME,

HOW IT WAS
BEFORE THE WAR,

AND SOMEONE WAS
ADMIRING THE MOON.

AND SOMEONE ELSE SAID,
"OH, YOU SHOULD HAVE

SEEN IT BEFORE THE WAR."

THAT'S ALL
THERE WAS TO IT.

WHAT? YOU'D LIKE HIM
TO SAY IT AGAIN. OK.

COULD YOU ONE MORE
TIME, SHELBY.
SORRY.

SOMEBODY SAID,
"GEE THE MOON
IS BEAUTIFUL."

"BEFORE THE WAR" IS
ACOMMON EXPRESSION USED

THROUGHOUT THE--UH,
NOT ONLY DURING THE WAR

BUT WELL AFTER THE WAR,

AND, UH,
"BEFORE THE WAR"
WAS THE EXPRESSION,

AND SOMEONE ONCE SAID,
"HOW BEAUTIFUL THE MOON
IS TONIGHT."

AND THE OTHER ONE SAID,
"YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN IT
BEFORE THE WAR."

WHAT'S THE STORY
ABOUT THE--THE VETERAN

WHO LOST HIS LEG,
AND HE LOOKS DOWN
ON THE LADY?

THAT HAPPENED--UH,
TWO OLD LADIES WERE VISITING

AN OLD SOLDIERS HOME

WHERE CONFEDERATE
VETERANS WERE STAYING.

AND, UH, AS THEY WALKED
THROUGH, THEY CAME

TO A MAN WHO WAS
IN AWHEELCHAIR.

AND, UH, ONE OF HIS LEGS
HAD BEEN CUT OFF.

AND THE WOMAN LOOKED
DOWN AND SAID,

"OH, MY POOR MAN,
YOU'VE LOST YOUR LEG."

AND HE LOOKED DOWN
AND SAID,

"DAMNED IF I HAVEN'T."

HA HA HA!

WHAT HAPPENED TO SICKLES
THAT WAS 80 FUNNY?

WHAT WAS HIS FATE?
WHAT HAPPENED TO
HIM AFTER THE WAR?

OH, AFTER THE WAR, HE HAD
AVERY MUCH PUBLICIZED,

UH, AFFAIR
WITH THE NYMPHOMANIAC
EX-QUEEN OF SPAIN,

BUT, UH, SICKLES DID
A LOT OF THINGS.

DID THE WAR GET RID
OF SLAVERY,

OR WHAT REPLACED IT?

WHAT REPLACED SLAVERY
WAS PEONAGE,

WHICH IN SOME WAYS WAS
CRUELER THAN SLAVERY.

UH, THEY WERE LOCKED UP
INTOASITUATION

THAT RESEMBLED SLAVERY
WITHOUT ANY OF THE BENEFITS,

SUCH AS BEING OBLIGED
TO KEEP YOU WHEN YOU'RE OLD

OR FEED YOU WHEN
YOU'RE HUNGRY.

UH, THAT LASTED
AVERY LONG TIME.

UH, WHEN I WAS A BOY
IN MISSISSIPPI,

UH, THE CONDITION
OF THE BLACKS

WAS NOT GREATLY DIFFERENT
FROM SLAVERY

BECAUSE THE DEPRESSION HAD
THAT EFFECT ON THEM.

THEY WERE UNABLE TO MOVE
OR GO ANYWHERE,

AND THERE WAS NOBODY
TO LOOK AFTER THEM.

IT WAS A--A BAD
SITUATION IN MANY WAYS.

WHO DREW CONFEDERATE
PENSIONS?

YOU TOLD US
ABOUT IT.

THEY WERE STATE
PENSIONS ALWAYS,

AND, UH, EACH
STATE PENSIONED ITS

CONFEDERATE VETERANS.

THERE WERE NO
NATIONAL PENSIONS, OF COURSE,

BECAUSE THERE
WAS NO NATION,

AND THEY COULDN'T DRAW
A PENSION

FROM THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT,

BUT THEY DID DRAW
FROM THEIR STATES,

AND THERE WERE
OLD SOLDIER HOMES.

WHEN I WAS A BOY,
I GUESS ALL

THE OLD VETERANS
HAD BEEN DRUMMER BOYS,

BUT, UH, I SAW
PLENTY OF THEM.

JEFFERSON DAVIS'
FORMER HOME, BEAUVOIR,

DOWN NEAR BILOXI, UH,
WAS AN OLD SOLDIER'S HOME.

|V|S|TED THERE
WHEN THERE WAS STILL

ABOUT 15 OR 20
OLD VETERANS THERE.

CUT, PLEASE.
ROLL OUT.

MAN WHISTLING

MAN: MARCH 28, 1987,
AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES,

PROJECT TITLE "CIVIL WAR,"

CAMERA ROLL 180,
SOUND ROLL 38,

CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW
WITH SHELBY FOOTE,

RECORDED FLAT 7 1/2 IPS,
-8 DB REFERENCE TONE TO FOLLOW.

BURNS: YEAH, I KNOW.

SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

SLATE.

DID IT MATTER
WHO WON?

UH, YES.

|T--|T--|T MATTERED
WHO WON,

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN
WE DIDN'T ALWAYS KNOW

WHO WAS GONNA WIN.

UH, IT MATTERED
THAT THE NORTH WON,

BUT AS FAR AS I'M
CONCERNED, I THINK THERE

WAS NEVER ANY DOUBT
THAT THE NORTH WAS
GOING TO WIN.

WHY, FROM A MORE
MORAL POINT OF VIEW

WAS IT RIGHT
FOR THE NORTH TO WIN?

I DON'T THINK THAT IT
WAS NECESSARILY RIGHT

FROM A MORAL
POINT OF VIEW.

I DON'T IDENTIFY THAT
AS STRICTLYA WAR

AGAINST OR FOR SLAVERY.

UH, ITHINK
THE IMPORTANT THING WAS

THE THING LINCOLN STRESSED
ALL THE WAY, WHETHER

THIS EXPERIMENT
COULD SUCCEED

OR WHETHER IT
WOULD SPLIT IN TWO

IN THE PROCESS
OF DEVELOPING.

DID YOUR PEOPLE
DIE IN VAIN?

UH, IN A LARGER SENSE,
ALMOST EVERYBODY

WHO WAS INVOLVED
IN IT DIED IN VAIN.

UH, BUT I DON'T
KNOW WHAT "IN VAIN"

REALLY MEANS.

A—-A GOOD DEATH
IS NOT IN VAIN EVER.

WHAT MADE
THESE MEN FIGHT?

WHY WOULD YOU GO UP
TO CEMETERY RIDGE,

KNOWING FULL WELL?

THE MAIN REASON YOU DID
IT WAS BECAUSE

THE MAN NEXT TO YOU
DID IT.

UH, IT WAS UNIT PRIDE.

IF A UNIT WAS TOLD
TO GO SOMEWHERE,

THEY WENT OUT OF PRIDE.

UH, IF YOU STOP TO THINK
ABOUT IT, IT WOULD HAVE

BEEN MUCH HARDER
NOT TO GO THAN TO GO.

IT WOULD HAVE TAKEN
A GREAT DEAL OF COURAGE

TO SAY, "MARSE ROBERT,
IAIN'T GOING."

UH, NOBODY'S GOT
THAT MUCH COURAGE.

IT'S, UH--|T—-|T'S
NOT EASY FOR US

TO UNDERSTAND.

UH, THE HARDEST THING
TO UNDERSTAND FOR ME WAS

THE NAVAL FIGHTING.

THERE WERE MEN
WITH 8—lN--8—|NCH GUNS

FIRING AT EACH OTHER
FROM A RANGE OF 8 FEET.

UH, THAT'S--THAT'S
INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO ME,

BUT THEY DID IT.

WAS THE WAR NECESSARY?

IT CERTAINLY WAS
NOT NECESSARY.

UH, IF OUR TRUE GENIUS
FOR COMPROMISE HAD COME

INTO EFFECT, THERE WOULD
NOT HAVE BEEN A WAR.

WE DON'T RECOGNIZE
THAT AS OUR GENIUS.

IN FACT, WE'RE VERY
PROUD TO STATE--

AND WE OFTEN DO,
THAT WE NEVER COMPROMISE.

IT IS OUR TRUE GENIUS.

AND IF IT HAD BEEN
IN OPERATION,

WE WOULD HAVE
AVOIDED THE WAR.

IT'S CALLED
A "IRREPRESSIBLE CON"--

UH, "IRREPRESSIBLE
CONFLICT."

I THINK, UH,
SEWARD CALLED IT THAT,

AND IT'S IMPOSSIBLE
TO IMAGINE THE NATION

WITHOUT HAVING
FOUGHT THAT WAR,

AND IT IS JUST BARELY
POSSIBLE THAT WE COULD NEVER

HAVE TESTED IT
WITHOUT AWAR,

BUT I DON'T LIKE
TO THINK THAT.

WAS IT A NECESSARY--
WAS THE WAR NECESSARY?

I THINK, AS I SAY,
THAT IT PROBABLY WAS

NOT NECESSARY,

BUT SINCE IT DID HAPPEN,
IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE

TO CONCEIVE
OF IT NOT HAPPENING.

SO THAT IN THAT SENSE,
|T CERTAINLY WAS

NECESSARY FOR US TO
BE WHAT WE ARE.

CERTAINLY, WE ARE WHAT
WE ARE AS A RESULT

OF THAT WAR.

IN THAT SENSE, IT WAS
ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

WHY SHOULD WE BE
125 YEARS LATER

SYMPATHETIC
TO THE SOUTH?

BECAUSE THE SOUTH
CONDUCTED ITSELF BRAVELY

IN AN EXTREMELY
DIFFICULT SITUATION.

MANY OF THE THINGS
WE ARE PROUDEST OF

IN THE AMERICAN
CHARACTER WERE

EXEMPLIFIED
BY THE SOUTHERN SOLDIER,

FOR INSTANCE.

UH, WE--WE--WE TAKE
AJUSTIFIABLE PRIDE

IN THE BRAVERY
OF THOSE MEN, NORTH AND SOUTH.

WHAT'S A TRUE
SOUTHERN GENTLEMAN?

WHAT DO PEOPLE MEAN
WHEN THEY SAY,

"TRUE SOUTHERN
GENTLEMAN"?

I THINK USUALLY THEY'RE
TALKING ABOUT MANNERS,

UH, WHICH REALLY DOESN'T
HAVE A GREAT DEAL

TO DO WITH IT,

BUT I THINK THAT'S
WHAT'S MEANT.

IT'S A--A--A FORM
OF POLITENESS, PERHAPS

WITH A LITTLE SOMETHING
FLORID IN IT, PERHAPS.

UH, ANYWAY,
THAT'S THE NOTION.

SHERMAN ONCE COUNTED
OFF THE MAJOR TYPES

OF SOUTHERNERS, ENDING
WITH THE YOUNGBLOODS

OF THE SOUTH,
IMPLYING THESE RASH,

RECKLESS RASCALS.

RIGHT, RIGHT.

UM, WHO ARE THESE MEN?

WHAT--WHO WAS HE
TALKING ABOUT?

UH, HE WAS TALKING
ABOUT SOMETHING

THAT REALLY DID EXIST.

THEY WERE DUELISTS.

UH, ANY MAN CROSSED THEM,
THEY WOULD CALL

HIM OUT AND SHOOT HIM.

UH, FLAMBOYANT
IN MANNER.

UH, THEY WERE MOST
OF THEM NOT
GENTLEMEN AT ALL,

NO MATTER WHAT THEY WERE
JUSTIFIED IN THINKING

THEY COULD CALL
THEMSELVES.

THERE WAS THAT TYPE,

AND I KNOW WHAT SHERMAN
WAS TALKING ABOUT.

IN FACT, SOME OF IT
APPLIES TO WHAT ARE

CALLED GOOD OLD BOYS.

UM, THEY--HE SAID,
"THEY NEVER WORKED A DAY

"IN THEIR LIFE
AND NEVER INTENDED TO.

"THEY LOVE WAR,
AND THEY GO INTO IT

"WITH GREAT JOY,

"AND IF THEY DIDN'T
HAVE ANY WAR,

THEY WOULD BE EXTREMELY
UNHAPPY."

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT
THEY WERE GONNA DO

TO THE SOUTH
AFTER THE WAR AND HOW

THEY WOULD PUT AN END
TO THIS KIND OF THING.

HE SPECIFICALLY
NAMED FORREST

AS AMONG THE PEOPLE THAT
IT WOULD BE NECESSARY

TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT.

HE WAS WRONG ON THAT.

WHAT IS
THE "LOST CAUSE?"

THE "LOST CAUSE" IS
THE CONFEDERACY.

UH, UH, IT IS REFERRED
TO AS "THE LOST CAUSE."

ON THE CONFEDERATE MONUMENT
IN MY HOMETOWN

OF GREENVILLE,
MISSISSIPPI,

THE CONFEDERACY
IS REFERRED TO

AS "THE ONLY NATION
THAT EVER--WAS EVER BORN

"AND DIED WITHOUTA SIN
HAVING BEEN COMMITTED

ON ITS PART. "

AND, UH, A LOT
OF PEOPLE, UH,

HAVE THAT VIEW OF IT.

LOST THINGS ARE ALWAYS
PRIZED VERY HIGHLY.

IF THAT IS
THE LOST CAUSE,

WHAT |S--WHAT'S
THE FOUND CAUSE?

WHAT WAS
THE NORTH FIGHTING FOR?

AHEM. THAT IS A--MUCH MORE
DIFFICULT TO SAY

THAN IT IS TO SAY
WHAT THE SOUTH
WAS FIGHTING FOR,

AND THAT'S ONE OF
THE REASONS DAVIS HAD

AN EASIER JOB
THAN LINCOLN.

THE ANSWER TO--
A SOUTHERNER WOULD GIVE

YOU AS, "WHY ARE
YOU FIGHTING?"

IF YOU WERE
ANORTHERNER,

HE WOULD SAY,
"I'M FIGHTING BECAUSE

YOU'RE DOWN HERE."

UH, HE WAS BEING INVADED,
AND HE FOUGHT,

AS HE THOUGHT,
TO DEFEND HIS HOME.

LINCOLN HAD THE MUCH
MORE DIFFICULT JOB

OF SENDING MEN OUT TO,

UH, SHOOT UP
SOMEBODY ELSE'S HOME,

AND, UH, HE HAD TO
UNITE THEM

BEFORE HE COULD DO THAT.

AND HIS WAY
OF DOING IT WAS DOUBLE.

ONE WAS TO SAY THAT,
UH, "THE REPUBLIC MUST BE

PRESERVED,
NOT SPLIT IN TWO."

THAT WAS ONE,

AND THE OTHER ONE HE
GAVE THEM AS A CAUSE,

THE FREEING
OF THE SLAVES.

SO THOSE TWO THINGS.

THE SECOND ONE WAS
ESPECIALLY

A—-A--A DANGEROUS THING
TO FOOL WITH

BECAUSE HE MIGHT HAVE
LOST KENTUCKY AND MISSOURI

IF HE HAD DONE IT EARLIER.

HE HAD TO WAIT
FOR THE RIGHT TIME,

WHEN IT WAS
NO LONGER POSSIBLE

FOR KENTUCKY OR MISSOURI
TO LEAVE THE UNION.

WHAT WAS THE COUNTRY
LIKE THAT WENT TO WAR?

YOU KNOW, WHAT'S
A MEAL COST

AT DELMONICO'S?

YOU KNOW, SORT OF
SET THE SCENE FOR ME.

IT CERTAINLY SEEMS TO BE
ABEAUTIFUL, BUCOLlC--

|T--|T'S DIFFICULT
TO TALK ABOUT PRICES

OF THINGS
IN MY OWN LIFETIME.

WHEN I TELL PEOPLE WHAT
THINGS COST IN 1934,

THEY SIMPLY FLATLY DO
NOT BELIEVE ME.

UM, WHEN I TELL THEM THAT
A FULL-TIME SERVANT

WORKING DAY LONG
AND INTO THE NIGHT

COST $3.00 A WEEK,

UH, THEY DON'T--THEY
DON'T FIND IT POSSIBLE

TO BELIEVE THAT.

IT'S TRUE.

UH, WHEN |--UH, WHEN
I SEE WHAT THINGS COST

NOWADAYS, LIKE
A HAMBURGER.

A HAMBURGER COSTING
80 CENTS SOUNDS LIKE

APIECE
OF INSANITY TO ME.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
A HAMBURGER COSTS A DIME.

UH, THAT'S JUST
A FACT OF LIFE,

EXCEPT IT DOESN'T.

HA HA HA!

BUT |T—-|T'S
VERY DIFFICULT TO SAY

WHAT LIFE WAS LIKE.

IT WAS CERTAINLY MUCH
SIMPLER

WITHOUT THE COMMUNICATIONS
WE HAVE TODAY,

LET ALONE, MOVIES
AND TELEVISION.

UH, MANY PEOPLE SPENT
THEIR ENTIRE LIVES

NOT BEING 50 OR 100 MILES
FROM HOME.

UH, BUT THEY HAD
A—-THEY GAINED THINGS.

THEY WEREN'T TORN
ON THE BIAS THE WAY WE ARE.

THEY WEREN'T
PULLED AT

FROM SO MANY DIFFERENT
DIRECTIONS.

I GUESS EVERY
GAIN WE'VE MADE

WE'VE PAID
A PRETTY HEAVY COST FOR.

WHAT--WHAT IS SOMETHING
THAT THE COUNTRY DIDN'T

BELIEVE BEFORE THE WAR

BUT BELIEVED AFTER
IN TERMS OF CHANGE?

DO--DO YOU KNOW WHAT
I'M TALKING ABOUT?

WHAT DID THE WAR--
YES.

UH...|'VE WRITTEN
ABOUT THAT.

THEY HAD A THEORETICAL
NOTION OF HAVING A COUNTRY,

BUT WHEN THE WAR WAS
OVER, ON BOTH SIDES,

THEY KNEW THEY'D HAD
A COUNTRY.

THEY HAD BEEN THERE.

THEY--THEY HAD
WALKED ITS HILLS

AND TRAMPED ITS ROADS.

UH, THEY--THEY SAW
THE COUNTRY,

AND THEY KNEW
THEY HAD A COUNTRY.

AND THEY KNEW--THE--
THE EFFORT THAT THEY HAD

EXPENDED AND THEIR DEAD
FRIENDS HAD EXPENDED

TO PRESERVE IT.

UH, |T--|T DID THAT.

|T--|T--|T MADE
THEIR COUNTRY AN ACTUALITY.

WHAT DID THE WAR
DO THAT WAS GOOD?

YOU KNOW, WHAT WERE
THE IMPROVEMENTS

THAT CAME FROM IT?

WARS ALWAYS BRING
INVENTIONS

THAT ARE
EXTREMELY USEFUL.

I CAN NAME SOME OF THEM
THAT SEEM FAIRLY SMALL

BUT HAD A BIG
IMPORTANCE.

THE FOUNTAIN PEN,
FOR INSTANCE,

WAS INVENTED
DURING THE CIVIL WAR.

THE MACHINE THAT
STITCHES THE SOLES

OF SHOES TO UPPERS
WAS INVENTED

DURING THE CIVIL WAR.

THAT MEANS ONE MAN
WORKING IN A DAY

COULD MAKE 80 PAIRS
OF SHOES,

WHERE A MAN PREVIOUSLY
WOULD TAKE TWO DAYS

TO MAKE A PAIR OF SHOES.

UH, ALL THOSE
THINGS CONTRIBUTED
LARGELY TO IT.

IN OTHER WORDS,
THEY WERE NOT ONLY
WAR INVENTIONS.

THERE WERE ALL KINDS
OF INVENTIONS,
UH, GOING ON.

UH, THE WAR SAW
THE FOUNDING

OF A NUMBER OF, UH,
EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS--

VMI, VASSAR.

THESE WERE ALL CREATED
RIGHT DURING THE WAR.

IT'S ONE OF MY BIG POINTS
THAT I POINT TO

IN POINTING THAT,
UH, THE NORTH FOUGHT

THAT WAR WITH ONLY PART
OF ITS EFFORTS.

IF IT WAS ABLE TO DO
ALL THESE OTHER THINGS,

INCLUDING THE HOMESTEAD ACT,
UM, NO TELLING WHAT

IT MIGHT HAVE DONE
TO THE SOUTH IF IT HAD

CONCENTRATED ON REALLY
FIGHTING THAT WAR,

THE WAY THE SOUTH
HAD TO DO.

IT SEEMS THAT THERE'S
ACERTAIN AMOUNT

OF "CULTURAL ADRENALIN"
THAT WAS PRODUCED
BY THE WAR, YOU KNOW.

IT'S WHEN PEOPLE
STARTED GOING
IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

WELL, YOU'VE GOT--
THE CIVIL WAR, | MAINTAIN,

IS OUR "ILIAD."

UH, IT IS OUR GREAT
STORY FOR THE--

OUT OF THE PAST,
AND IT DEFINES US

IN OUR OWN MINDS
AND IN ANYBODY'S

THAT'S READING
THE HISTORY
OF THIS COUNTRY.

IT IS A FAR MORE
CHARACTER-DEFINING THING

THAN THE REVOLUTION,
FOR INSTANCE, WHERE ALL

THE PRINCIPLES
OF OUR GOVERNMENT
WERE ESTABLISHED,

BUT THE CIVIL WAR
ESTABLISHED OUR NATURE,

UH, OUR--OUR BEING.

AND THAT'S GOOD AND BAD.

THE VIOLENCE OF IT IS
THE--THE UNDERSIDE

OF AMERICAN CHARACTER,

BUT THE NOBILITY
OF IT IS THE BEST SIDE

OF--OF OUR CHARACTER,
AND THEY ARE BOTH THERE.

WHAT ARE SOME
OF THE NAMES
FOR THE CIVIL WAR

THAT PEOPLE GAVE TO IT?

I MEAN, WE CALL IT
THE CIVIL WAR,

BUT THERE'S
AN ENDLESS LIST.

WELL, THE--THE OFFICIAL,
UH--| BELIEVE,

OFFICIAL NORTHERN NAME
FOR IT IS

THE WAR
OF THE REBELLION,

WHICH--WH|CH IS ANATHEMA
TO SOUTHERN EARS.

UH, SOUTHERNERS USUALLY
PREFER TO CALL IT

THE WAR
BETWEEN THE STATES.

SOME PEOPLE CALL IT
THE LATE UNPLEASANTNESS.

I THINK MARK TWAIN
CALLED IT THE LATE
UNPLEASANTNESS.

JOE JOHNSTON
HAD A NAME FOR IT.

HE CALLED IT THE WAR
AGAINST THE STATES.

SO THERE WERE LOTS
OF NAMES FOR IT.

CUT. THAT WAS
A RUN-OUT.

I DON'T THINK SO.

MAN: MARCH 28, 1987,
AMERICAN DOCUMENTARIES,

PROJECT TITLE "CIVIL WAR,"

CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW
WITH SHELBY FOOTE,

CAMERA ROLL 181,
SOUND ROLL 39,

RECORDED FLAT 7 1/2 IPS,
-8 DB REFERENCE TONE TO FOLLOW.

SO WE'LL HAVE
A TOTAL OF--

SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

SLATE.

DO YOU HAVE
A PARTICULAR IMAGE
FROM THE WAR?

CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT?

THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH
|--|'M VERY FOND OF.

IT SHOWS
3 CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS

WHO WERE CAPTURED
AT GETTYSBURG,

AND THEY ARE POSED
IN FRONT OF OR ALONGSIDE

ASNAKE-RAIL FENCE,

AND YOU SEE EXACTLY HOW
THE CONFEDERATE SOLDIER

WAS DRESSED.

YOU SEE SOMETHING
IN HIS ATTITUDE

TOWARD THE CAMERA THAT'S
REVEALING OF HIS NATURE,

AND ONE OF THEM HAS HIS,
UH,ARMS LIKE THIS,

UH, AS IF HE'S HAVING
HIS PICTURE MADE,

BUT HE'S DETERMINED
TO BE THE INDIVIDUAL HE IS,

AND THERE'S SOMETHING
ABOUT THAT PICTURE

THAT DRAWS ME STRONGLY
AS AN IMAGE OF THE WAR.

WHAT UNIFORM,
CONFEDERATE UNIFORM,

WOULD YOU WEAR
IF YOU COULD WEAR IT?

THERE SEEMS
SUCH A PROLIFERATION

OF UNIFORMS.

WHAT WOULD YOU WEAR?
WHAT DO YOU LIKE?

WELL, UH, THE DRESS UNIFORM
IS THE HANDSOMEST,

WITH AN ARTILLERY SASH
AROUND YOUR WAIST,

WHICH, OF COURSE, WOULD BE RED,
AND, UH, ASABER,

AND A--A WIDE-BRIMMED HAT,
AND A HIGH COLLAR,

UH, WITH YOUR RANK
ON--ON THE COLLAR.

UH, THAT'S PROBABLY
THE HANDSOMEST ONE.

WHO FILLED OUT
THAT UNIFORM

IN THE SOUTHERN ARMY
THE BEST, TO YOUR MIND?

ROBERT E. LEE
LOOKS MIGHTY GOOD.

UH, THEY ALL
LOOKED GOOD, THOUGH.

IT WAS A HANDSOME UNIFORM.

|--| THINK THAT
THE CONFEDERATE UNIFORM

WAS A—-A VERY
HANDSOME UNIFORM,

AND I LIKE ITS SORT OF
MODESTY ABOUT RANK.

UH, YOU COULDN'T TELL
A BRIGADIER FROM A--

FROM A FULL GENERAL.

THEY ALL WORE THREE STARS
WITH A WREATH AROUND THEM.

UH, AND THERE'S SOMETHING
QUIET ABOUT IT,

LIKE FRENCH ARMY UNIFORMS.

THE RANK WAS NOT ASSERTIVE.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE BARS
ON THEIR SHOULDERS

OR ANY OF THAT.

IT WAS A—-A SIMPLE
COLLAR ORNAMENT,

THE WAY WE WEAR NOW.

WHY DID DISEASE KILL

THREE TIMES AS MANY
PEOPLE AS THE WAR?

THEY NOT ONLY DIDN'T SUBSCRIBE
TO THE GERM THEORY,

THEY DIDN'T SUSPECT |T--
OR SUSPECT THAT IT EXISTED.

THAT'S ONE BIG REASON.

UH, BLOOD POISONING,
ERYSIPELAS, UH, PNEUMONIA,

EVEN MEASLES
WAS A BIG KILLER.

UH, THOSE THINGS,
THEY DID NOT KNOW

HOW TO TREAT THEM, LET ALONE
NOT HAVE ANY PENICILLIN.

UH, AND IT WAS
JUSTAQUESTION OF

A CRISIS AND SURVIVAL,
OR A CRISIS AND DYING.

UH, IT'S A WONDER THEY DID
AS WELL AS THEY DID.

WOULD DISEASE JUST RIP
RIGHT THROUGH A CAMP?

THEY HAD EPIDEMICS
OF WHOOPING COUGH AND,

UH, VARIOUS THINGS.

UH, I JUST MENTIONED
MEASLES.

THAT CAME AS A GREAT
SURPRISE TO ME,

HOW MANY SOLDIERS
DIED OF MEASLES.

I DIDN'T KNOW A PERSON
COULD DIE OF MEASLES,

BUT THEY DID
IN LARGE NUMBERS.

AND, UH, IN THE EARLY
DAYS OF THE WAR,

ESPECIALLYA CAMP,
WHETHER NORTHERN OR SOUTHERN,

WAS AN UPROARIOUS THING
WITH THE COUGHING.

THERE WASATREMENDOUS
AMOUNT OF COUGHING,

UH, IN THE CAMPS
IN THE EARLY DAYS.

THEY ALL SHOOK DOWN.

YOU COULDN'T TELL A CITY BOY
FROM A COUNTRY BOY

AFTER HE HAD BEEN IN THE ARMY
AYEAR OR 80...

THE SAME WAY |N--TODAY.

WHO ARE THE REAL JERKS
OR FRAUDS OF THAT WAR?

IT MUST HAVE PRODUCED
SOME REAL HORSE'S ASSES.

UH, YOU'RE ASKING ME
TO DEFINE MY PREJUDICES,

UH, WHICH I CAN DO.

THERE ARE PEOPLE I
JUST DON'T LIKE PERSONALLY...

PHIL SHERIDAN
IS ONE OF THEM.

HOW MUCH THAT'S BECAUSE
HE DESPISED SOUTHERNERS,

I'M NOT TOO SURE.

BUT I NEVER DID LIKE SMALL MEN
WHO BRISTLE ALL THE TIME.

UH, ANOTHER ONE THAT I
HAVE SOME RESENTMENT FOR

IS A CONFEDERATE,
JOE JOHNSTON,

ONE OF THE GREAT
CONFEDERATE GENERALS

AND VERY MUCH LOVED
BY HIS MEN.

SO WHAT--WHAT I FEEL
FOR BOTH THOSE MEN

IS JUST SHEER PREJUDICE.

UH, WE--WE--THEY RUB ME
THE WRONG WAY,

OR WE FAIL
TO HOOK ATOMS.

AND WHEN YOU'RE AWARE
OF THOSE THINGS,

IT MAKES YOU
LEAN OVER BACKWARDS

TO BE FAIR TO THOSE PEOPLE
WHOM YOU DISLIKE.

I HOPE THAT I DID,

BUT I'M SURE |--| WASN'T
ENTIRELY SUCCESSFUL.

WHAT'S THE STORY,
QUICKLY,

ABOUT GREELEY'S
HANDWRITING?

UH, I THINK THAT'S
A POSTWAR STORY.

BUT ANYHOW, HORACE GREELEY
IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE HAD

THE MOST INDECIPHERABLE
HANDWRITING IN THE WORLD.

80 AS A JOKE--AND PEOPLE
IN NEWSPAPER OFFICES

FREQUENTLY PLAY JOKES--

THEY GOTACHICKEN,
DIPPED ITS FEET IN INK,

TOOK A PIECE OF PAPER,
AND WALKED IT ACROSS THE INK,

FILLING THE WHOLE PAGE
FROM TOP TO BOTTOM,

AND, UH,
PUT IT ON THE HOOK

FOR THE LINOTYPE OPERATOR
TO SET.

GREELEY HAD
ONLY ONE MAN BACK THERE,

A LINOTYPE OPERATOR
WHO COULD READ HIS WRITING.

AND THERE WAS--
UH, GREELEY CAME IN

AND SAT DOWN IN HIS CHAIR.

AND AFTER A WHILE,
THE LINOTYPE OPERATOR APPEARED

AND SAID, UH, "MR. GREELEY,

"I THINK I'VE GOT IT ALL
EXCEPT THIS WORD.

IS THAT
'CONSTITUTIONALITY?"'

CHUCKLES

I'M NOT SURE THAT STORY
IS TRUE, IF IT...

DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE
SONG FROM THE CIVIL WAR

THAT YOU LIKE
THAT YOU COULD SING

A FEW BARS FOR US?

I'VE ASKED EVERYBODY
TO SING...

ICERTAINLY COULDN'T
SING A FEW BARS,

BUT |--| LIKE
"THE BONNY BLUE FLAG."

UH, I LIKE A LOT
OF THE SOUTHERN SONGS

THAT HAVE A SORT OF
COWBOY TWANG TO THEM.

THEY ARE SORT OF BANJO SONGS
LIKE "THE YELLOW ROSE OF TEXAS."

UH, THOSE SONGS I LIKE.

I LIKE A SENTIMENTAL BALLAD
THAT CAME FROM

WELL BEFORE THE WAR
CALLED "LORENA."

AND I THINK IF ANYONE WERE
TO SING THAT SONG WELL TODAY,

THERE'D BE A GREAT
REVIVAL OF IT.

IS THERE SOMETHING
YOU WANT TO ADD, SHELBY,

BEFORE YOU READ
THAT WE SHOULD

REMEMBER TO TAKE
WITH US AGAIN

ABOUT THIS
TERRIBLE CONFLICT?

NO. TH|S--TH|S THING I HAVE
TO READ WILL COVER THAT,

UH, |F--|F IT DOES.

GOOD.
LET'S CUT, THEN.

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

SLATE.

HOLD IT, PLEASE.

WAIT FOR ME.

AND...OK.

BURNS: OK, SHELBY.

"WHATEVER ELSE THE VETERANS
BROUGHT OR FAILED TO BRING HOME

"WITH THEM, AND WHETHER
THEY RETURNED TO SNUGNESS

"OR DILAPIDATION,
WITH OR WITHOUT BACK PAY,

"BONUSES, AND PENSIONS,
THEY HAD ACQUIRED

"A SENSE OF NATIONHOOD,
OF NATIONALITY.

"FROM THE OUTSET,
LINCOLN HAD HAD THE PROBLEM

"OF UNITING WHAT REMAINED
OF HIS DIVIDED COUNTRY

"IF HE WAS TO RECOVER
BY CONQUEST

"THE SEGMENT
THAT HAD DEPARTED.

"AND THOUGH HE SUCCEEDED
WELL ENOUGH IN THIS

"TO ACHIEVE HIS IMMEDIATE
PURPOSE, TRUE FULFILLMENT

"CAME AFTER HIS DEATH,
AFTER THE VICTORY

"THAT BROUGHT
THE SOLDIERS HOME.

"THEY KNEW NOW THEY HAD
A NATION, FOR THEY HAD SEEN IT.

"THEY HAD BEEN THERE,
THEY HAD TOUCHED IT,

"CLIMBED ITS MOUNTAINS,
CROSSED ITS RIVERS,

"HIKED ITS ROADS.

"THEIR COMRADES LAY BURIED
IN ITS SOIL ALONG WITH

"MANY THOUSANDS OF
THEIR OWN ARMS AND LEGS.

"NOR DID THIS APPLY ONLY
TO THOSE WHOSE RETURN

"WAS NORTHWARD,
ABOVE THE MASON-DIXON LINE.

"BELOW IT, TOO, MEN
WHO NEVER BEFORE HAD BEEN

"50 MILES FROM THEIR
PLACES OF BIRTH, NOW KNEW,

"FROM HAVING SLEPT AND FOUGHT
IN ITS FIELDS AND WOODS

"AND CANE BREAKS, GAWKED AT
ITS ClTlES--SUCH AS THEY WERE--

"AND TRUDGED HOMEWARD
THROUGH ITS DESOLATION,

"THAT THEY, TOO,
HAD HAD A COUNTRY.

"NOT SECESSION,
BUT THE WAR ITSELF,

"AND ABOVE ALL,
THE MEMORIES RECURRENT

"THROUGH THE PEACE THAT
FOLLOWED--SUCH AS IT WAS--

"CREATED A SOLID SOUTH,
MORE FIRMLY UNITED IN FEAT--

"IN DEFEAT THAN IT HAD BEEN
DURING THE BRIEF SPAN

"WHEN IT CLAIMED
INDEPENDENCE.

"VOIDED,
THE CLAIM WAS ABANDONED,

"BUT THE PRIDE REMAINED,

"PRIDE IN THE SEGMENT
REABSORBED,

"AS WELL AS IN THE WHOLE,
WHICH NOW,

"FOR THE FIRST TIME,
WAS TRULY INDIVISIBLE.

"THIS NEW UNITY WAS
BEST DEFINED PERHAPS BY

"THE CHANGE IN NUMBER
OF A SIMPLE VERB.

"IN COMMON--|N FORMAL,
AS IN COMMON SPEECH,

"ABROAD AS WELL AS ON
THIS SIDE OF ITS OCEANS,

"ONCE THE NATION EMERGED
FROM THE CRUCIBLE OF THAT WAR,

"'THE UNITED STATES ARE'
BECAME 'THE UNITED STATES |S.'"

CUT.

MAN: ROLLING, SPEED, SET.

HOLD IT. HOLD.

AND...THERE WE ARE.

AND I'M READY.

BURNS: GO AHEAD.

"NO WONDER, THEN,
IF THE VETERANS LOOK BACK

"ON THAT FOUR-YEAR HOLOCAUST—-
WHICH, IN A SENSE,

"WAS BEGUN BY ONE MADMAN,
JOHN BROWN,

"AND ENDED BY ANOTHER,
JOHN WILKES BOOTH--

"WITH SOMETHING OF
THE FEELING SHARED BY MEN

"WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH
AND SURVIVED

"SOME CATACLYSMIC
PHENOMENON--

"A HURRICANE
OR AN EARTHQUAKE, SAY,

"OR A HORRENDOUS
RAILWAY ACCIDENT.

"MEMORY SMOOTH
THE CRUMPLED SCOLL--SCROLL,

"ABOLISHED FEAR,
LEACHED PAIN AND GRIEF,

"AND REMOVED
THE STING FROM DEATH.

"'WELL,l A FORMER HOSPITAL
STEWARD TESTIFIED,

"RECALLING THE MORIBUND
PATIENTS IN HIS WARD,

"'THEY WOULD SEE THAT
THE DOCTOR GAVE THEM UP

"'AND HAD ASKED ME
ABOUT IT.

"'I WOULD TELL THEM
THE TRUTH.

"'I TOLD ONE MAN THAT,
AND HE ASKED, HOW LONG?

"'I SAID
NOT OVER 20 MINUTES.

"'HE DID NOT SHOW ANY FEAR...
THEY NEVER DO.

"'HE PUT HIS HAND UP SO
AND CLOSED HIS EYES

"'WITH HIS OWN FINGERS,
AND STRETCHED HIMSELF OUT

"'AND CROSSED HIS ARMS
OVER HIS BREAST.

"'NOW, FIX ME, HE SAID.

"'l PINNED THE TOES
OF HIS STOCKINGS TOGETHER--

"'THAT WAS THE WAY WE
LAID CORPSES OUT--

"'AND HE DIED
IN A FEW MINUTES.

"'HIS FACE LOOKED AS PLEASANT
AS IF HE WAS ASLEEP,

"'AND MANY IS THE TIME
THE BOYS WOULD

"FIX THEMSELVES THAT WAY
BEFORE THEY DIED.l

"IN TIME, EVEN DEATH
ITSELF MIGHT BE ABOLISHED.

"SERGEANT BARRY BENSON,
A SOUTH CAROLINA VETERAN

"FROM MCGOWAN'S BRIGADE,
WILCOX'S DIVISION,

"A.P. HILL'S CO-ARMY
OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA...

"HE HAD ENLISTED THREE MONTHS
BEFORE SUMTER AGED 18

"AND SERVED
THROUGH APPOMATTOX.

"SO IT'S SO WHEN HE GOT AROUND
TO COMPOSING THE REMINISCENCES,

"HE HOPED, 'WOULD GO DOWN
AMONGST MY DESCENDANTS

"FOR A LONG TIME.'

"RELIVING THE WAR IN WORDS,
HE BEGAN TO WISH

"HE COULD RELIVE IT
IN FACT.

"AND HE CAME TO BELIEVE THAT
HE AND HIS FELLOW SOLDIERS,

"GRAY AND BLUE, MIGHT ONE DAY
BE ABLE TO DO JUST THAT,

"IF NOT HERE ON EARTH,
THEN AFTERWARDS |N VALHALLA.

"'WHO KNOWS,' HE ASKED
AS HIS NARRATIVE

"DREW TOWARD ITS CLOSE,

"'BUT IT MAY BE GIVEN TO US
AFTER THIS LIFE TO MEET AGAIN

"'IN THE OLD QUARTERS,
TO PLAY CHESS AND DRAUGHTS,

"'TO GET UP SOON TO ANSWER
THE MORNING ROLL CALL,

"'TO FALL IN
AT THE TAP OF THE DRUM

"'FOR DRILL AND DRESS PARADE,
AND AGAIN TO HASTILY DON

"'OUR WAR GEAR WHILE
A MONOTONOUS PATTER

"'OF A LONG ROLL
SUMMONS TO BATTLE.

"'WHO KNOWS, BUT AGAIN
THE OLD FLAGS, RAGGED AND TORN,

"'SNAPPING IN THE WIND,
MAY FACE EACH OTHER AND FLUTTER,

"'PURSUING AND PURSUED
WHILE THE CRIES OF VICTORY

"'FILL A SUMMER DAY.

"'AND AFTER THE BATTLE,
THEN THE SLAIN AND WOUNDED

"'WILL ARISE,
AND ALL WILL MEET TOGETHER

"'UNDER THE TWO FLAGS,
ALL SOUND AND WELL,

"'AND THERE WILL BE TALKING,
AND LAUGHTER, AND CHEERS,

"'AND ALL WILL SAY,
DID IT NOT SEEM REAL?

WAS IT NOT AS IN
THE OLD DAYS?

CUT.

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

BURNS: OK.

FOOTE: "WHATEVER ELSE
THE VETERAN--"

CUT, CUT. SORRY.

HIT "RECORD."

CUT FOR A SECOND.

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

BURNS: OK.

FOOTE: "WHATEVER ELSE
THE VETERANS BROUGHT

"OR FAILED TO BRING HOME
WITH THEM,

"AND WHETHER THEY RETURNED
TO SNUGNESS OR DILAPIDATION,

"WITH OR WITHOUT BACK PAY,
BONUSES, AND PENSIONS,

"THEY HAD ACQUIRED
ASENSE OF NATIONHOOD,

"OF NATIONALITY.

"FROM THE OUTSET, LINCOLN
HAD HAD THE PROBLEM

"OF UNITING WHAT REMAINED
OF HIS DIVIDED COUNTRY

"IF HE WAS TO RECOVER
BY CONQUEST

"THE SEGMENT
THAT HAD DEPARTED.

"AND THOUGH HE SUCCEEDED
WELL ENOUGH IN THIS

"TO ACHIEVE HIS IMMEDIATE
PURPOSE, TRUE FULFILLMENT

"CAME AFTER HIS DEATH,
AFTER THE VICTORY

"THAT BROUGHT
THE SOLDIERS HOME.

"THEY KNEW NOW THEY HAD
A NATION, FOR THEY HAD SEEN IT.

"THEY HAD BEEN THERE,
THEY HAD TOUCHED IT,

"CLIMBED ITS MOUNTAINS,
CROSSED ITS RIVERS,

"HIKED ITS ROADS.

"THEIR COMRADES LAY BURIED
IN ITS SOIL ALONG WITH

"MANY THOUSANDS OF
THEIR OWN ARMS AND LEGS.

"NOR DID THIS APPLY ONLY
TO THOSE WHOSE RETURN

"WAS NORTHWARD, ABOVE
THE MASON-DIXON LINE.

"BELOW IT, TOO, MEN WHO
NEVER BEFORE HAD BEEN

"50 MILES FROM THEIR
PLACES OF BIRTH, NOW KNEW,

FROM HAVING SLEPT
AND FOUGHT IN ITS FlELDS--"

BURNS: SHELBY,
HOLD ON A SECOND.

| WANT--|'LL BACK YOU UP
JUST A COUPLE OF LINES

BECAUSE WE GOT
ANOTHER PLANE.

DID YOU--DO YOU AGREE

THAT THAT WAS
A GOOD THING TO CUT?

MAN: YOU WANT ME TO CUT?

BURNS: YEAH, YEAH, PL--

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

BURNS: OK.

FOOTE: "NOR DID THIS APPLY
ONLY TO THOSE WHOSE RETURN

"WAS NORTHWARD, ABOVE
THE MASON-DIXON LINE.

"BELOW IT, TOO, MEN WHO
NEVER BEFORE HAD BEEN

"50 MILES FROM THEIR
PLACES OF BIRTH, NOW KNEW,

"FROM HAVING SLEPT AND FOUGHT
IN ITS FIELDS AND WOODS

"AND CANE BREAKS,
GAWKED AT ITS CITIES--

"SUCH AS THEY WERE--
AND TRUDGED HOMEWARD

"THROUGH ITS DESOLATION,
THAT THEY, TOO,

"HAD HAD A COUNTRY.

"NOT SECESSION,
BUT THE WAR ITSELF,

"AND ABOVE ALL,
THE MEMORIES RECURRENT

"THROUGH THE PEACE THAT
FOLLOWED--SUCH AS IT WAS--

"CREATED A SOLID SOUTH,
MORE FIRMLY UNITED IN DEFEAT

"THAN IT HAD BEEN
DURING THE BRIEF SPAN

"WHEN IT CLAIMED
INDEPENDENCE.

"VOIDED,
THE CLAIM WAS ABANDONED,

"BUT THE PRIDE REMAINED,

"PRIDE IN THE SEGMENT
REABSORBED,

"AS WELL AS IN THE WHOLE,
WHICH NOW, FOR THE FIRST TIME,

"WAS TRULY INDIVISIBLE.

"THIS NEW UNITY WAS
BEST DEFINED PERHAPS BY

"THE CHANGE IN NUMBER
OF A SIMPLE VERB.

"IN IN FORMAL,
AS IN COMMON SPEECH,

"ABROAD, AS WELL AS ON
THIS SIDE OF ITS OCEANS,

"ONCE THE NATION EMERGED
FROM THE CRUCIBLE OF THAT WAR,

"'THE UNITED STATES ARE'
BECAME 'THE UNITED STATES |S.'"

CUT. GOOD.

YOU SAID YOU THOUGHT
THAT FIRST TAKE WITH--

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING, SPEED.

BURNS: OK.

FOOTE: "NO WONDER, THEN,
IF THE VETERANS LOOK BACK

"ON THAT FOUR-YEAR HOLOCAUST—-
WHICH, IN A SENSE,

"WAS BEGUN BY ONE MADMAN,
JOHN BROWN,

"AND ENDED BY ANOTHER,
JOHN WILKES BOOTH--

"WITH SOMETHING OF
THE FEELING SHARED BY MEN

"WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH
AND SURVIVED

"SOME CATACLYSMIC
PHENOMENON--

"A HURRICANE
OR AN EARTHQUAKE, SAY,

"OR A HORRENDOUS
RAILWAY ACCIDENT.

"MEMORY SMOOTH
THE CRUMPLED SCOLL--SCROLL,

"ABOLISHED FEAR,
LEACHED PAIN AND GRIEF,

"AND REMOVED
THE STING FROM DEATH.

"'WELL,l A FORMER HOSPITAL
STEWARD TESTIFIED,

RECALLING THE MORIBUND
PATIENTS IN HIS WARD--"

LET'S CUT FOR A SECOND.

WE'LL START AT
"WELL" AGAIN.

MAN: SOUND'S ROLLING.

BURNS: SPEED.

MAN: SPEED, AND PLAY.

FOOTE: "MEMORY SMOOTH
THE CRUMPLED SCROLL,

"ABOLISHED FEAR,
LEACHED PAIN AND GRIEF,

"AND REMOVED
THE STING FROM DEATH.

"'WELL,l A FORMER HOSPITAL
STEWARD TESTIFIED,

"RECALLING THE MORIBUND
PATIENTS IN HIS WARD,

"'THEY WOULD SEE THAT
THE DOCTOR GAVE THEM UP

"'AND THEY WOULD
ASKED ME ABOUT IT.

"'I WOULD TELL THEM
THE TRUTH.

"'I TOLD ONE MAN THAT,
AND HE ASKED, HOW LONG?

"'I SAID
NOT OVER 20 MINUTES.

"'HE DID NOT SHOW ANY FEAR...
THEY NEVER DO.

"'HE PUT HIS HANDS UP SO
AND CLOSED HIS EYES

"'WITH HIS OWN FINGERS,
AND STRETCHED HIMSELF OUT

"'AND CROSSED HIS ARMS
OVER HIS BREAST.

"'NOW, FIX ME, HE SAID.

"'l PINNED THE TOES
OF HIS STOCKINGS TOGETHER--

"'THAT WAS THE WAY WE
LAID CORPSES OUT--

"'AND HE DIED
IN A FEW MINUTES.

"'HIS FACE LOOKED AS PLEASANT
AS IF HE WAS ASLEEP AND SMILING.

"'MANY IS THE TIME THE BOYS
WOULD FIX THEMSELVES THAT WAY

BEFORE THEY DIED.'"

CUT. WE GOT IT.

MAN: RUN OUT.