Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult (2020–…): Season 1, Episode 1 - Hooked - full transcript

That window is where
it happened.

I was the first woman

in my group of slaves
to be branded.

The smell that came

from the cauterizing pen
burning my flesh

was so intense

that it filled up
the entire townhouse.

It was torture,

but I still went through
with it.

How do you even begin

to explain something like this?



Now, to the new allegations

against a mysterious
self-help group called NXIVM.

According to their website,

more than 16,000 people
worldwide

have taken NXIVM courses.

The purported self-help group,

many now say, is a cult
that sexually victimized women.

The organization
included a secret sex society

where the slaves were branded,
brainwashed,

and forced to have sex
with the group's founder,

Keith Raniere.

- Okay.
- Give me one second.

Um, Nancy, could you help me?

Keith's a little bit shiny.



Keith, can you take your glasses off?

Take off
your glasses for a second.

Close your eyes.

If we want the world
to be less violent,

we need to change our values
and principles.

You can see that if people
are devoted to materialism,

it takes away from compassion.

It increases objectification
of people.

It leads to more violence,
n-leads to more war.

It doesn't have to be that way.

We're starting a revolution.

Like, understanding these ideas

and then living them
is so noble.

We're changing the world.

One people, one nation,

one body, one soul,

and rise above violence,

poverty, and crime.

The three words
I would use to describe NXIVM

are magnificence times infinity.

We are very thankful
to Keith Raniere.

He created
a wonderful opportunity

for women to grow
to the next level,

and we didn't even realize
that we could go this far.

I went into this looking
for a more purposeful life,

and I thought that
these people wanted that, too.

I thought that I found
a real deep sense of community.

I felt like someone
cared about me.

At first, NXIVM
seemed to be a safe space

where we were surrounded
by, like, really good people,

because for so long, like,

I just-it w-it felt-
sorry, it...

Sorry.

There have been
a number of dangerous cults

in American history:

the Waco Davidians,

Jonestown,

the Unification Church,

Scientology, and Heaven's Gate.

And we've seen some of those
end catastrophically.

But NXIVM will go down

as one of the most
destructive cults in history.

Do you understand
how you could rape a baby?

I can make it a baby
that's very rapable.

Keith Raniere
is the most horrific,

abusive cult leader

that I've ever heard of

in my 30-some years
of doing this work.

The predatory nature,
the cruelty...

It's beyond the pale.

He was the wolf.

We were the sheep's clothing,
unknowingly.

Why didn't these women see
what was happening to them?

Were you involved in a sex cult?

Actress Allison Mack,

who played Chloe Sullivan

in the Superman
prequel series Smallville,

led the recruitment
for the group.

Allison, did you help brand
India Oxenberg?

Dynasty star Catherine Oxenberg

is Hollywood and actual royalty.

She's also a mother who has
been fighting night and day

to get her daughter India out
of an alleged sex-slave group.

You say they hijacked
your daughter.

My-my daughter
is a victim of this man.

I did not see it like that.

No.

These people were my friends.

I said, "You're brainwashed,"
and she said, "I'm not."

I just thought that maybe
she lost her mind.

My daughter is not
in her right mind,

and that is what Keith Raniere

and this NXIVM cult
has done to her.

At that point, it was just,

"No matter what,
I have to save India."

I didn't want to be saved.

My name is India.

I was in NXIVM
from 2011 to 2018.

For seven years.

I went through something
I don't wish upon anybody,

and I'm still trying
to figure it out.

How could I have ended up
in a cult

where I was sex trafficked

or involved in crimes

that could have put me
in prison?

I'm trying to figure out
what happened

versus what I wanted
to believe happened.

I, uh, Google myself

every once in a while,
just to...

check on what's being said
about me.

Try not to read everything,

because it can be
a little bit overwhelming,

but sometimes it's better
to know than to not know.

Typically,

anything associated
with my name nowadays

is "branded sex slave,"

"Allison's slave,"

"slave of Keith Raniere."

Like...

it can't get that much worse,

besides "murderer," maybe.

I mean, it just keeps going
and going and going,

and it's hard
for people who don't know

to distinguish
what's true and untrue.

This all started in 2011,

when I heard about this thing

called
"executive success programs,"

or ESP.

It was supposed to be
this training course

for business
and communication skills

that you could then apply

to whatever it was that
you wanted to do in your life.

The truth is,

unwittingly,
I introduced her to ESP,

which I believed
was a self-help group.

I feel horrible.

I first heard about the program

from a friend who I trusted,

who reached out to me and said,
"I have just done this class.

"It is the best thing
that I've ever done.

"My business has grown
exponentially.

You've got to do it."

And India happened to be
at the house that evening.

And I said,
"Hey, I'm going to this intro.

Do you want to come with me?"

And she's like, "Sure."

So innocently, casually,
we get into my car.

We do the 30-minute drive
to the program.

Looking back at it,

I think a lot about
what would have happened

if we just didn't go
to the intro.

At that time in my life,
I was 19.

I had spent a year in Boston,
going to school,

and decided that college
wasn't for me

and that I wanted to work.

So I moved back home
with my mom in Malibu

and started to build
a catering business.

I always looked
at the culinary arts

as sort of a... just a passion,

but I never really saw it
as something

that I would turn into a career.

So when I came across ESP,
I thought,

"Well, maybe there are certain
skills that I'm missing

"that if I acquired,

"I could take my natural talents

and hone them into something
more professional."

So when we arrived
at the introduction to ESP,

the room was full,
and there were several people

that I recognized from
the entertainment industry.

There were entrepreneurs

and strong, powerful women
like Rosario Dawson,

who I just got to strike up
a conversation with.

I was impressed.

They said they had had people
like Gerard Butler,

Jennifer Aniston
take the courses.

Mark Vicente,

who was the director
of a documentary called

What the Bleep Do We Know,

was hosting the event
with Sarah Edmondson,

a Canadian actress
from Vancouver.

I'm happier in my life.

I'm really joyful in my essence.

I'm more successful
in my relationships.

I got that
because of these talks,

and you can have it too.

Sarah Edmondson
said that the program

would give you
the tools to conquer

whatever might be standing
in the way of your success...

Physical, emotional,
whatever it might be.

It was presented as a way

to upgrade
people's operating systems

so that they could be
more successful

in all areas of life.

When I first came to ESP,

I had, on the surface,

something that seemed
to be like the perfect life.

I had the job. I had the dog.

I had the car.
I had the boyfriend.

I had the clothes.

And yet,

when I started to do
the work in the classes,

I started to transform.

At my introduction for ESP, um,

we all met someone

who conquered his Tourette's
through this program,

which definitely got
my attention.

They said it was connected

to the Dalai Lama somehow.

They also said that they had
taught the curriculum

to a head of state,
to a president.

NXIVM used the Dalai Lama

and other celebrities

and wealthy individuals
who were there

or who they alleged to be there

as a way to lure people in.

Because of the kinds of people
who were taking the courses,

they were able to show

that this was
the really cool thing to do.

When you see people

like Richard Branson

and the first family of Mexico
involved in this,

it tells the brain,

"You don't have to
really dig into this.

"These brilliant people
already did that for you.

It's all endorsed,"

and it makes
the buy-in stronger.

Towards the end
of the introduction,

uh, they announced that

the actual first five-day class

would be $3,000 per person.

That got my attention,
and I was thinking,

"Well, what exactly
are we paying for?"

They had a limited-time offer,

a reduced price of,
I think, 2,100.

You know, it was a lot.

I was an aspiring actress,

and Mark Vicente kind of said

that being around

these other, uh, actors

or these successful people
will help me get there.

I did not have

that kind of money
laying around to do it.

So Allison Mack offered to pay
for the intensive ahead of time

in exchange for the work
that I did for her.

It was
a substantial amount of money

to just put down on faith.

I asked my mom... was like,

"Can you put your
credit card down

and I'll figure out
how to pay you back?"

She goes, "Really?" Like...

"Are you sure
you wanna do this?"

And I said, "Yeah, I do,
and I wanna do it with you."

I'm thinking, "Okay,
this is expensive, number one,

"but how often does
your 19-year-old daughter

want to spend five days
with her mom?"

Like, that trumped
any misgivings

that I might have had
about what this was.

And I went, "Okay,"

and I signed us up.

Unfortunately,
as I found out later,

it was probably
the worst decision

of my entire life.

Did you buy more food?

Food, darling?
What would you like?

I love Jell-O a lot.

When I was a child,

I felt very special
and very cared for

and always very loved.

I had a pretty active,
like, fantasy world.

I thought that I could talk
to animals.

So that took up
a lot of my time.

But I grew up
here in Los Angeles

with, uh, a single mom.

My dad was really not
in the picture,

and I had a mom

who really
just let me experience things

without being
a helicopter parent.

I would define my mom
as a seeker.

My whole life,

I saw her as someone
who is looking for answers,

looking for something
greater and deeper.

And I was always sort of like

her partner in crime in things,

whether it was joining her
on movie sets

or exploring,

I don't know,
monks in your house one day

when you come home from school.

Like, I had
a pretty unusual lifestyle.

Eventually,
my mom got remarried...

Casper!

...and our little
family grew quickly.

My mom and I
had always been close,

but in my teenage years,

I had less one-on-one time
with just her.

So I was really excited

to take
the five-day course with her,

and I thought this could be
an opportunity for us to bond.

We ended up taking
the first class

in May of that year.

So we drove to
this beautiful house in Venice

that apparently was owned
by Eric Clapton,

and it was a modern home
with a big, open living room.

How do we, as human beings,
better ourselves?

The way that it was set up

was that we would watch

this woman called Nancy Salzman

teach us these concepts
via video.

When we see a sign
of human excellence,

we seek to better ourselves.

Then we would break
into these groups

where we would discuss
a question set,

and that's when,
all of a sudden,

they separated India... from me.

At the time, I didn't
think about it as a big deal.

They told us they always
separate family members.

The very first thing that
a predatory group will do

is to separate someone
from her friends and family,

because once she's deprived

of that frame of reference
of that perspective,

then the manipulation
becomes easier.

Each class

was called a module,

and some of them
were really intriguing,

especially "Communication
and Being At Cause."

When we're really at cause,

we understand that we're the one

choosing to have the emotion.

I remember when I heard that,

I was like, "Wow,
that's really incredible.

Like, I get to choose
how I wanna feel."

And...
that was kind of liberating.

So one of the core concepts
in NXIVM,

which comes
from the New Age movement,

is that you create
your own reality.

And so the follow-up from that

is that you're to blame
for whatever happens to you.

They actually had to recite,

"I will not choose
to be a victim."

And eventually, this was a way
to make the women believe

it was their own doing
if they were victimized.

Somebody with low self-esteem
is a total victim.

After a few of these modules...

Everybody following me?

...it feels like you're
getting your brain scrambled,

and part of that
is kind of exciting.

This was one of the first
learning experiences for me

where I actually enjoyed it.

It was very different

from what I had just
experienced in college.

I have quite a bit of insecurity

around traditional education
in general

because I have dyslexia.

But I really do like to learn.

And with ESP,

I felt enthusiastic
about the curriculum.

There were things
that I noticed that were weird.

Everyone wore sashes.

We were supposed to bow
when we enter the room.

We were supposed to clap
and say,

"Thank you, Prefect,"

who was Nancy Salzman,

and "Thank you, Vanguard."

Vanguard was this guy,
Keith Raniere, he was...

we didn't get to meet.

The way that he was promoted

was that he was
the smartest man in the world,

a judo champion, a scientist,
a concert pianist.

All of these
sort of grandiose things

were Vanguard.

I asked them, "Why do we have
to call him Vanguard?"

It's to give him tribute...

To give him tribute
and to pay respects to him

for giving us the curriculum.

I mean, that's what they said.

Most cult leaders

ascribe special titles
to themselves

to give themselves
superior status

compared to the others
in the group

and to the rest of the world.

Every time I had an issue
with any one of their rituals

and brought it up in class,

they accused me
of being defiant.

So they would throw it
back in my face.

We all have
certain suppressive strategies.

They had modules to address

all of the thoughts that
someone might have, like,

"Oh, this makes me feel
a little uncomfortable."

And it was one step at a time,

down and down
and down the rabbit hole.

They were trying
to normalize things

that seemed a little strange

so that, later on down the road,

they could have
horrifying curriculum

concerning, you know,

"Why is it wrong
to have sex with children?"

They even had a module
"Why We Are Not a Cult."

There was a morning
that India and I got up,

and we were dressed
almost identically,

same color scheme, everything.

And I remember being teased

for how similar I was to my mom

and, like,
how "enmeshed" we were

and all of these
sort of specific terms,

and I actually remember
feeling embarrassed.

They were already actively
engaged in separating us

and making her feel ashamed
of any closeness with me.

They were already planting
the seeds of shame.

Throughout the whole five-day,

you're being told
that you're gonna have

this amazing
one-on-one experience

on day five,

called
an exploration of meaning, EM.

You have to do this process,

this exploration of meaning,
in front of the whole class

for, like, the grand finale
of the program.

One by one,

the students went
to have EMs with the coaches.

Someone worked
on their fear of heights.

Another person worked
on their stuttering.

Almost everyone had a profound
emotional experience

and breakthroughs.

All of a sudden,
right before my mom's EM...

Nancy Salzman!

...Nancy Salzman
shows up in person,

and apparently,
this was really unusual.

All the coaches went berserk.

Like, they're like,
"Wow, it's Nancy.

"You have no idea
how special this is.

She never teaches level one."

I remember just thinking,

"Whoa,
it's the lady from the TV."

Like...

An EM is

a stimulus-response
disconnection.

Are you committed to breaking
your stimulus-response chain

with me?

The fact that Nancy Salzman

turned up
for Catherine Oxenberg's EM...

That certainly wasn't
a coincidence.

Catherine Oxenberg
and her daughter India

would be considered
high-value recruits.

And when cults like NXIVM
find those people,

they'll turn hell to high water

to try to get that person
to join

or go further into the group.

Okay, so tell me
what upsets you.

For my EM, I chose to work

on my anxiety
around auditioning.

So Nancy had me close
my eyes, and she said,

"Go back to the first time

you remember feeling
that anxiety."

Can you bring
that feeling up now?

And what I flashed
on immediately was

I was four years old

and I was sitting on a man's lap

and he was sexually
inappropriate with me.

And what does it feel like?

Is it a pressure,
or is there movement?

And then, almost immediately,

I flashed on another situation,

which was I was with a director

and he sexually harassed me.

And what do you say
to yourself when they do this?

It occurred to me
that there was a link

of being hurt by men in power.

Does it change
your understanding

of the situation?

And once I made that connection,

it seemed as if the fear lifted.

Does it feel better?

Okay, we're done. Thank you.

It was very cathartic,

and I felt like
I had made a breakthrough

and the feedback
from the coaches

was that this was the equivalent

of ten years of therapy
in ten minutes.

I said to myself...

The practice of the EMs,

where they would have people
think back

to some traumatic experience
in their life and relive it...

It's very scary,

because the people in leadership

are not professional therapists.

They were using the EM
to basically tear people down,

to find out their secrets,

to find out
what their Achilles' heel,

their pain was,

and then drilling down into it

and leveraging it to gain
control over that individual.

Having Nancy Salzman in person

did feel good.

You're left with
these incredible breakthroughs

at the end

and you're so enthusiastic,

and that's when they push you
to take the next level,

because you're on a high,
basically.

My first EM was not
a huge breakthrough.

So, at the end of the intensive,

I just thought, like,
"That was pretty cool.

I learned something."

And then I actually thought
that after the five-day,

I would be done.

I had no idea that she might
have been willing

to walk away
after the first five days,

because she seemed
so enthusiastic.

I wish I had known.

My whole family got
really into it at the time,

and so I kept going
down the path

where I would
eventually meet Keith,

but we didn't know anything
about his past.

Without further ado,

I'd like to introduce
Keith Raniere.

Let's give him a big hand.

How many people here are new?

Some? Okay, a few.

For those of you
who are not new,

you are all new,

because some of the things...

Prior to ESP and NXIVM,

Keith Raniere
had been known in the '90s

for being a leader

of this
Consumer Buyline operation,

which was a pyramid scheme.

You want me to spin numbers
on the board?

I'll dazzle you. I'm good at it.

I've sort of always marveled

about why anyone
gave Keith credit

for being
kind of a business genius,

because, in fact,

every business
he created was a failure.

So far, Consumers' Buyline's

facing four state investigations

and several state lawsuits.

After Consumers' Buyline closed,

Keith Raniere met Nancy Salzman.

Keith was looking
for his next business,

his next venture,

and this was also a time period

where self-improvement
was really popular.

Hi, I'm Tony Robbins.

For over 10 years now, I've helped
over a million people

to take control of their life.

Keith kind of seized
on that opportunity

with Nancy, and they created

what was Executive
Success Programs, ESP,

and that became NXIVM.

Raniere saw himself

as the vanguard
of a new era of world history.

But actually,
what you see in NXIVM

is what I have seen
in many cults.

The leader cobbles
together ideas,

copying from other sources.

A lot of NXIVM is
multilevel marketing

borrowed from Amway.

A company
that offered all people

a chance to be in business
for themselves.

The structure of the seminars

was copied
from Erhard Seminars Training.

The center's network
proceeds from the assumption

that people are up to
the right things in the world.

A lot of it is
the philosophy of objectivism,

which is Ayn Rand.

It's the things that we
admire or want that enslave us,

and I'm not easy
to bring into submission.

Some of it is Scientology.

For example,

Scientology has what
they call auditing.

Reexperience the incident

from beginning to end.

Okay.

And that's the same thing

as the EM exercises in NXIVM.

So Keith Raniere

was not at all
an original thinker.

That's what Nancy Salzman
helped him with.

Way back in a previous life,

before I met Keith Raniere,

I used to teach
neurolinguistic programming

and... hypnosis.

Hyp-hypnosis.

Shh; you know what they'll say

if they know
that I used to teach that.

Neurolinguistic programing,

or commonly called NLP,
was created in the '70s,

and they talked...

...in a very special way

that would
elicit certain feelings,

and make people feel
really special.

You feel really good.

You want to spend time
with someone

with high self-esteem because...

NLP is a very deliberate way

of conducting conversation
and interacting with someone.

You're matching
their body language.

You might even be matching
their breathing.

Your goal is to make your words
penetrate more

without the other person's
knowledge or consent.

In many cases, NLP is amoral.

It completely depends on
the ethics of the practitioner.

Most folk, even-even people
that you call sociopaths,

are well-intended folk.

You know, we-we...

we all pretty much come out
the same way.

NXIVM began growing
in the early 2000s,

and it no longer was just ESP.

Keith and Nancy started creating

more and more programs

underneath the NXIVM umbrella.

All of them
were based out of Albany,

but eventually, NXIVM
created satellite centers

that were all over the globe

where they offered introductory

and also advanced
self-development courses.

If you looked at NXIVM
from a business perspective,

it just didn't generate
much money.

It was basically
a horseshit organization.

It was only able
to sustain and thrive

because it had millions
and millions of dollars

coming into its coffers.

Millions which came

from the Seagram's
liquor empire.

Much of the money for NXIVM

came from
Clare and Sara Bronfman,

who were the daughters
of multibillionaire

Edgar Bronfman
of Seagram's Corporation.

Everything that
you've experienced this week

has been Clare.

When the Bronfman
sisters came on board,

NXIVM became
infinitely more powerful.

When you have money,

you're able to do things like,
you know,

bring the Dalai Lama
to the Palace in Albany.

No one's ever done that before.

A significant cultural event

for the capital region.

The Dalai Lama's appearance

was the result of an invitation

from the World Ethical
Foundation,

which is founded by two sisters,

heiresses
of the Seagram's Liquor cor...

The Dalai Lama was really

an important coup for them,

and they actually paid
the Dalai Lama

something like a million dollars

to agree to meet

and have his picture
taken with Keith

and then use that for publicity

and to lend legitimacy.

Clare and Sara Bronfman
probably spent

at least $200,000 million

bankrolling Keith Raniere
and his crazy ideas.

It was not a coincidence

that many children
of prominent families

were in NXIVM.

Raniere targeted them

to feed his desire for access
to more power and control

by really appealing
to their idea of individuating

and not living
in their parent's shadow.

And they were convinced
that this was a good thing,

that Keith was helping them
to be strong individuals

with their own identity.

And he did that
with India Oxenberg.

Not only was India's mother,
Catherine Oxenberg,

a famous actress,

she was also descendant
of European royalty,

related to the English crown

and descendant of a king.

Princess Elizabeth's life began here.

As the only daughter of Prince Paul of
Yugoslavia.

And Princess Olga of Greece and Denmark.

My name
is Elizabeth Karadjordjevic.

When I was born, I was known

as Princess Elizabeth
of Yugoslavia

because in those days,

Serbia was part of Yugoslavia,

which no longer exists.

This is a celebration
of Elizabeth's biography.

Today...

It was very difficult

to see my granddaughter
in the cult.

Of course, India was a baby
when she joined the cult.

I mean, she was barely 20,
terribly vulnerable,

and it was so painful to see.

That's the grandmother,
and that's her sister Maria.

Katherine had first
introduced India

to these people.

She was the one
who took her there.

I think she feels awful
about it, of course.

Who wouldn't?

One of the hardest
things for me to reconcile

is that I was the one
who introduced India to NXIVM

and that I did not recognize
the warning signs,

the red flags.

I can't tell you how much guilt
I feel about that.

After that first
five-day intensive and ESP,

I didn't think
that I needed to take

more and more curriculum.

I think the thing that
was more intriguing to me

wasn't about what I was
learning for my business,

but about having friendships

and relationships with people
who I thought got me

on a personal level.

I ended the first five-day
on a high.

I ended up taking
the rest of level one.

During that period,

Nancy Salzman reached out
to me, and she said,

would I be interested
in hosting a Jness weekend?

So Jness was a curriculum
I was not familiar with.

And she described it as
a female empowerment program,

women's only program.

And I thought, "Great.
I'm totally... I'm a feminist."

I often opened up my home
for gatherings and events.

And so I said, "Why not?"

Jness offers an answer
or a solution

to a problem that I think

every woman and every man
struggles with.

The whole concept
of Jness is understanding

what it means to be a woman,

and it's so hard to do that

because so much of our culture

is dominated by male think,
male speak, male talk.

Jness was described as
a women's educational program

that would help women
understand women,

women understand men,

and a lot of the emphasis

was on relationships
and sexuality.

My first exposure to Jness

was a Jness weekend
that my mom hosted in Malibu.

My grandma actually attended
that Jness weekend.

Catherine said, "I'm going
to have a meeting

"for women this afternoon.

"It's called Jness.

A lot of girls are coming in
from Mexico and from LA,"

and I happened to be in
Los Angeles, staying with her.

There were around 50 women
who showed up at my house,

many of them from Mexico.

It seems like they had
a large following in Mexico.

They all arrived that afternoon.

We draped ourselves
all over the furniture

in the living room.

And there was somebody there
called Nancy Salzman

who was going to give
the spiel about Jness.

What makes Jness different

than any other women's movement
or organization out there?

I always say

when I introduce people
to the education...

Because I still teach
the weekends

from time to time, you know...

"Welcome to the first women's
movement

that was created by a man."

And it is.

It's the first women's movement
that was created by a man.

A very unique man,

a very amazing man
in many, many, many ways,

but a man who has thought
very deeply

about what it would take
to change the world.

And I just hope people
will come and take it,

because it's the most amazing
thing I think I've ever done.

I thought it
was complete rubbish.

They said she was
very important, Nancy Salzman,

but I thought she was an idiot.

Men have to grow up,

and they have
to be responsible in the world.

And men are responsible
for women,

and women don't really get
that that's the case.

However,

I was trying to be polite

and not be the rude mother,

sitting there complaining.

They spoke a lot

about how men were linear
and logical,

and that women were
more organic thinkers

who lack structure
and character.

It was nothing like
the original ESP class.

My mom, I think, hated it,

and she couldn't even...

my-my mom has zero poker face.

I knew there was
something fishy going on,

and I thought it was stupid

and I didn't want to irritate
Catherine because, after all,

you know, she'd put
this whole thing together.

But looking back on it,

I should have been, maybe,
more-more rude.

Keith Raniere
taking feminist terms

and giving them new meanings

is using something
that's familiar to people

but twisting it in a way that's
actually tearing them down.

Jness was pure misogyny,

and yet women were led
to believe

that this was really gonna
help them become better women.

After the Jness weekend,

I signed up for
an ongoing Jness curriculum,

and I met with this group
of women once a week,

and we really started
to become friends.

This was just a community

of women of all ages,

all walks of life,
that supported each other.

I felt like I was
in the right place.

I was networking
with women of status.

I thought Jness was really cool.

It was positive.

I felt like I was building
strong bonds with women

based off of like-mindedness.

Who do women feel
are their opponents,

and who do men think
are their opponents?

- 'Cause men think, women feel.
- Ah, yeah.

It wasn't so much
about the discussion topics

as it was about the people

that I was starting
to relate with.

We were sharing
so many personal things

about our own lives

that we were building
a bond and a community.

And at this point,
India seems to be flourishing.

She seems happier.
She seems more motivated.

She seems enthusiastic
and passionate.

She loves the people
she's spending time with.

She feels
that they have mutual goals

and shared a vision.

Cut to "Mom, I'm going
to become a coach."

At a gut level,
I knew this was a bad thing.

When I began going
down the coaching path,

I started to feel

a little separation from my mom,

like, "Oh, this is my thing."

And that felt good...

To have something

that I felt like I was good at.

They told me the main issue
that I had to work on

was that
I was too dependent on my mom.

As far as I was
concerned, ESP was a tool.

But once you became a coach,

it was your life,

keeping you very busy
and very distracted

and not having time
for any other commitments.

People were working 24/7.

Your commitment had to be
absolute to the program.

And that's what happened
with India.

Cults are very good

at ritualizing so much behavior,

and that's part
of the hamster wheel...

Doing a lot of activities,

doing a lot of things
that everyone has to do

on a regular basis.

And it keeps people so involved,

so busy, and also usually
quite exhausted.

India was devoting
a lot more time to ESP,

and her behavior
with me changed.

Um, there was
a lot more pushback.

Naively, I reached out
to Nancy Salzman

and asked her for her advice,

and she said, "Oh, don't worry.

It's completely natural.
India's individuating."

Well, in hindsight,

I can see that this was
all part of the cult strategy

to suck her in.

It's straight out
of the playbook

for how to manipulate
people's emotions,

their minds, get them
to turn against themselves

and their true self as well
as their family and friends.

Slowly but surely,

I became more and more
disgruntled with ESP,

but I had paid so much money
in advance

for these level-two classes,

and there was a part of me
that-I just hate wasting money.

So I wanted
to finish the program.

In January of 2012,

my husband, Casper, and I
were taking an advanced class

that was only offered in Albany.

We were staying with coaches
in the program,

and I happened to notice one day

that the wife was sleeping
on the floor

and the husband
was sleeping in the bed.

I-and I asked her, I said,
"What's up?"

And she said,
"Oh, I'm doing a penance,"

and she seemed
quite happy about it.

That, to me, was, like,
a-a giant red flag.

Then there was
a very disturbing exposé

in the Albany Times Union

alleging that Keith was
a child molester, a pedophile.

That was...

the moment that I decided
I could never take

another class with NXIVM ever.

When I tried to tell India
about this article,

she dismissed it.

She said that this
was a smear campaign,

Keith would never
do anything like this.

And I backed off,
because the truth is...

...I thought to myself,

"If he really was
a child molester,

"why were there no charges
brought against him?

Why was he not facing...
why was he not in jail?"

They would always say,

"Just trust your own experience.

"You know us.
You know this curriculum.

"All those people
that are putting out stories

"about Keith and NXIVM

"just have a vendetta
against him

because of all the great things
that he's doing."

And at the time,

I believed that...

because I was experiencing
what I thought was really good.

Cult leaders like
Keith Raniere are very used to

that kind of bad publicity,

and so they will have
a whole PR program

to fight against it.

They'll say it's fake news.

They'll um, have people come out

and make statements
about what a great man he is

and that he's actually
like a monk

and he doesn't even have sex.

And then eventually
the story fades,

and they've won.

After I started
training to be a coach,

I was told that I had
to attend Vanguard Week,

which was a corporate retreat

that they held every summer
in upstate New York.

It was kind of like summer camp,

but for adults,

that also gave tribute

to Vanguard for his birthday.

It's an extraordinary
experience.

The philosophical founder
of this company

who created all of this...

You get to hang out
with that guy.

I mean, it's like
the curriculum come to life.

The first time
that I ever went to V-Week

was August of 2012.

I could consider this a place

where I might never visit again,

but I don't want to have things

that are totally
off-limits to me

because I had
a bad experience there.

For me, going to V-Week
in Silver Bay

always felt like an obligation,

but coming back

and choosing to confront a place

that I could spend
the rest of my life

feeling afraid of

is part of what I have to do
to feel whole

and make sense of what happened.

She loves cameras.

Hmm.

It's super weird.

I feel like I'm looking
for familiar faces,

but they're not here.

'Cause that's what you would do.

- Like, you would show up...
- Yeah.

And then...

...people would start to
trickle in,

and you'd be like, "Oh, hi,"

like, "I haven't seen you
for so long."

Each center would have
their own admin table,

so you would have, like,
Albany, Guadalajara,

León, Vancouver.

And everyone would register
and get their little badges.

How do I do something
that makes the world better

beyond what I need today?

That's what coming together
for V-Week is.

It is a vision.

It is an understanding that

here is something that
I want to see in the world

and extend-extend this joy
to your lives,

to your families,
to your communities,

anywhere you can.

It moves the world up a bit.

I signed up for V-Week
after watching the video

because, you know,

everyone was smiling and happy.

After seeing the promo video,

I was like, "Man,
I am gonna figure out

how to get the money
to go to Vanguard Week,"

'cause it's all kinds
of wonderful,

like,
summer camp-type activities.

These activities were
called "objectives,"

and you could join an objective

like drumming or chess playing.

There was writing and singing,
and they would put on a play.

They had, you know,
water sports,

kayaking, um, hiking.

In all of the activities the
intention was to push your limits,

push your boundaries.

There was
a triathlon, which I did.

I'm not a very good runner.

It was exhausting, to be honest.

V-Week was pretty overwhelming

and incredibly exhausting,

but it felt like

we were building something
bigger than ourselves.

V-Week was what we call

"high-arousal techniques."

Basically,
create a lot of high energy

and also keep them busy
all the time,

all the time, so they have
no time to themselves.

So when they're in
this high-arousal state,

it feels really good.

There's almost an addiction
mechanism that clicks in.

It adds to the vulnerability

and the susceptibility

to then sign on
for the next thing

because,
"Wow, this was so great.

I-I wanna come back
and have more of this."

V-Week is something
where people come here,

sometimes when
they don't wanna come here,

because it means something.

And I just... can you just give
me an establishing shot

where we just hang here
for a moment?

- Yeah, yeah.
- There's a reason.

- Okay.
- There's always a reason.

When you came to V-Week
as a participant,

you were not allowed
to take any pictures,

but they had
their own video team.

They have a professional,

like, camera team

who documents everything.

Like, I don't know why

we recorded
everyth-that's weird.

We're starting...

Keith Raniere truly believed

he was actually
some special master

who was going to make
some amazing mark on history,

and so these were the archives

of this most brilliant
genius man in the world.

Every word that came out
of his mouth was precious,

so, there, you know,

were hours and hours
and hours of these tapes.

This is the auditorium.

And a majority
of the performances

and the forums
were held right here.

It is, of course,
V-Day of V-Week.

Happy birthday, Vanguard.

The birthday part of it
for... Keith

was at the very end,

and for some people,
it was the first time

that they had ever met him
in person.

There was a lot of hype
and a lot of buildup.

Thanks, Vanguard,

and happy birthday
from all of us.

The first time I met Keith,

I wasn't awestruck, but I mean,

you kind of just go with
the flow of the environment

that you're entering...

or at least, I did.

On V-Day,

we had what was called
Tribute Night.

All the centers
would practice for months,

and they would perform for Keith

as a gift for his birthday.

Because he was...

this great genius

who was here
to make people's lives better.

I mean...

Happy birthday, Vanguard!

Happy birthday, Vanguard.

I don't remember
feeling freaked out

by all the tribute.

I think I just remember
thinking,

"Wow, they must
really like this guy."

Vanguard, there's a question

that you ask me frequently,

which is,

has your being a part of my life

enhanced my life for the better?

And I don't have words

to tell you how much it has.

And I don't stand alone in that.

A heartfelt tribute to Vanguard.

You make it possible for us
to grow ourselves, every day,

into the people
that we want to be.

None of this would be
possible at all without...

Without you, Keith.

So many people had
put a lot of emphasis

on meeting Keith
for the first time.

People used to say,
"We're surprised

by how normal and human he is."

- Thank you so much.
- Thank you.

So...

let-let's eat cake.

I actually met Keith
at the end of V-Week.

He was very soft-spoken, and,

in a weird way, it's very
intimate very quickly...

Like, emotionally.

He was, like, about this close.
His face.

It was really-it's close, um...

It wasn't so much
about what we talked about

than the feeling
of the encounter.

And it felt very...

in-you know,
connected and intimate.

It's weird.

How are you?

I love you. Happy birthday.

- ...birthday!
- Yes.

But I wanted to say
happy birthday.

Thank you.

- How are you?
- Good.

He kissed everyone on the lips.

Yeah, he was definitely
a kisser.

- How are you?
- I'm very good.

I love you very, very,
very, very much.

For me, I would be more inclined

to kind of move
to the-the cheek,

and it became a little awkward

because you're like,
"Okay, where am I going?

I'm going here. Okay."

And I owe you a walk.

Yes, you do.

I was trying to figure
out, like, what is that?

And so then I would ask,
you know, around.

I'm like, "Well, is Keith-
who's Keith with?"

You know, they would be like,
"Oh, well, he's a renunciate.

You know, he's like a monk.
He doesn't have sex."

Hi. How are you?

- You're back.
- Happy birthday. Yes, I'm here.

It was as if...

here's this man

who is so elevated,

emotionally and spiritually,

that it doesn't mean
what you think it means.

To me, I found that quite odd,

but when everyone is doing it,

you're more inclined to be like,

"Oh, well,
I-what's wrong with me?

Why do I found-find an issue
with this?"

Especially when
the whole thing is, like,

figuring out your issues,
figuring out who you are.

And this is my issue,
the lip kissing.

- How'd it go?
- Very well.

If you question those things,

they start telling you that
you're not self-aware enough,

and that once you get
to a certain level

of proficiency
in the curriculum,

that you'll be able to evolve.

You know,
i-in many civilizations...

Rome, Greece, whatever...

It was often where they had
older adults with children...

You know, six years old,

seven years old,
eight years old...

Having a type
of sexual apprenticeship.

This was common.

You know, uh, often you'll have
a person who, um, was,

we'll call it "abused"
by a-a-a father.

There's one instance
I-I know in particular,

and the girl really loved it...

enjoyed it.

There wasn't a single part
of it she didn't like

until she recognized
by society that it was abuse.

So who abused who?

Keith Raniere is a psychopathic,

narcissistic man

who wanted
his own personal harem

of sex slaves.

He really knew
how to desensitize people

so that they will be willing
to do

increasingly horrific things
without feeling anything.

Thank you.

I can't believe that I get to participate
in this kind of community.

My daughter had been in
the presence of so much evil.

Like, he's so evil, this man.

It's taken me over 50 hours

of working with a therapist

to even be able to say the words

that something sexual did happen

between Keith and I.