Prop Culture (2020–…): Season 1, Episode 3 - Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas - full transcript
When I first saw Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas,
it blew my mind.
What's this? What's this?
There's color everywhere...
The music, characters, and story
all came together
to make Disney's first stop-motion
feature film a timeless classic.
And what's so incredible
is how it was made.
Characters and sets had to be
inventively designed,
allowing this 1991 movie
to push the medium to new heights.
From a skeletal Santa puppet
to an iconic hill,
every object from this film has humor,
emotion, and a unique twist.
I've been researching and collecting
these items for years,
but I'm still eager to make
new discoveries and get the inside scoop
from the people who put so much passion
and creativity into them.
In a movie, every detail,
no matter how small,
is designed to tell you something.
I'm Dan Lanigan, and I've spent
my entire life collecting artifacts
from my favorite films.
Now, I am setting out to learn more
about the props from the Disney movies
that I love...
This thing is so cool.
Because these historic artifacts
make you feel
like you're a part of the story.
My investigation begins
with a visit to production
and special effects house.
Fonco Studios.
Fantastic. Whoa.
I'm here to see an iconic set-piece.
And joining me
is one of the film's visionaries,
Rick Heinrichs.
Rick's lent his artistic talent
to dozens of classic movies,
including The Big Lebowski, Fargo,
AND CAPTAIN AMERICA: The First Avenger,
in addition
to almost every Tim Burton film.
This actually lives
in the Disney Archives
- and goes on exhibit from time to time.
- Oh, it's so much fun to see this.
When was the last time you saw this?
- On stage, I think.
- Really?
- Wow!
- Yeah.
Just the way
we were approaching our sets,
you can see how light is raking
across texture.
- It's real light on a real object...
- That's...
And there's just
an inherent quality to that
that I find superior
to a CG-created environment.
The textures became such an important part
of creating
a three-dimensional look
of Tim's own kinda graphic style,
- gives you that sense of a 2D, 3D effect.
- Yes.
Really was a product
of the experimentation we'd done
on a bunch of different little projects
at Disney...
- Right.
- Back in the early '80s.
Another project
that Tim and I worked on together was
an experiment with stop-motion animation
for which, uh, I took Tim's designs
and created puppets
in three-dimensional sets.
It... it's basically the story of a...
of a little boy who thinks
that he's Vincent Price.
It was really the development
through all of that period
that we came upon the concept of doing.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
as a half-hour TV special.
Very inspired by the Rankin and Bass
and Grinch Who Stole Christmas.
Do you remember
what the reaction was?
There was an appreciation,
but nobody bit because it was too weird,
and I don't think that they realized
that there was
an audience for something like this.
You didn't get the short episode
- but you got a feature film out of it.
- Yeah.
- That was one of the interesting things...
- Yeah.
That I learned about Hollywood.
Nothing ever really dies, it just goes
to sleep for a while,
hangs on the shelf and comes out
at the time when it can be what it was
really meant to be in the first place.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I brought Rick here to reunite him
with Spiral Hill.
Little did I know,
he brought something for me.
- Wow!
- So, this is the original Jack
that we sculpted from 1982.
- You sculpted this?
- Yes.
- This is an important piece.
- It is.
So, this was well before the idea
of a feature film was in the works.
That's correct.
This is a maquette, the 3D blueprint
used by the puppet builders
for all of the Jack Skellingtons to come.
It's interesting how similar
the design is...
- Yes.
- To, ultimately, what was executed.
How many variations
did you have to go through?
I only ever made one Jack,
and that was it.
That's amazing.
You're literally pouring yourself
into this...
- Yeah.
- Object to bring it to life.
I did these sculptures
from Tim's drawings.
This one and another one of Zero.
Is that how you met him?
I actually first started to work
with Tim Burton
in between some of his drawings
of the fox for The Fox and the Hound.
- Hmm.
- I went to his office
and I discovered that he was doing
drawings of something else
entirely different.
One day, Tim brought in some sketches
and a poem that contained the foundation
of what would become Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas.
This sculpture has been the heart
of everything that came afterwards.
It is a three-dimensional object
that people actually engage with.
Have you had to repair him
over the years?
This guy hasn't needed
any restoration at all,
partly because he's almost entirely
made out of wire.
And I'm sure the paint on top of it
helps keep it together a little bit, too.
You know, I wanna check something. I...
I think we kept more or less
the same scale, but...
He looks to be about the same scale...
- Yeah!
- Doesn't he?
- Jack at home on Spiral Hill.
- Yeah, exactly.
And Jack stepped right down.
Having learned Jack's origin story,
I want to talk to the man
who helped give Jack his soul
and see what treasures
might be hiding in his collection.
Mad musical genius and long-time
Tim Burton collaborator, Danny Elfman...
both wrote the songs for the film
and gave Jack
his distinctive singing voice.
What does it mean? What does it mean?
And as if I couldn't love this guy more,
Danny Elfman is also a dedicated collector
of oddities.
But oddest of all is the skinniest
Santa Claus you've ever seen.
- Voilà!
- Here's Jack.
- Here's Jack.
- Look at him. Amazing.
Jack is like...
two years of my life.
And a very meaningful two years
of my life.
Well, meaningful to a lot of people,
so your time was worthwhile.
I can't tell you how great that is to hear
from something that I thought would be
long forgotten and disappeared by now.
So, this puppet was restored, right?
Well, when I first got him,
he was in good shape,
but about every two to three years,
he's gotta go through a restoration.
They're built of materials
that begin to decompose.
- Yes.
- And I remember
one year coming and looking at Jack
and realizing there was
a little puddle of red...
plastic. I go, "He's melting." So,
- I'm just...
- Yes, his hat was melting, wasn't it?
Yeah.
And I'm just like, "Little by little,"
I'm gonna keep you going, gonna
keep you going here, Jack, don't worry."
The hands have always been a problem,
they tend to turn to a liquid material.
And then the Santa Jacks, the hat's made
out of the same material as the hands,
- so that's the same problem and...
- Yeah.
You've done a great job of keeping
the body clean,
'cause that stuff tends to drip
on the costume,
- and then it's really tough to get off.
- Okay.
- I'm really impressed.
- That's good to know.
This is so cool. I am hanging out
with Jack and Jack.
Elfman tends to throw himself
into his work.
I could make a Christmas tree
And there's no reason I can find
I couldn't handle Christmas time
I'll bet I could improve it, too
And that's exactly what I'll do!
It seems as though Jack
was more than just a character to you.
Oh, he... he was,
but let me be completely clear about it.
He's totally Tim Burton's creation.
Tim brought me the story,
and we didn't have a script.
Henry Selick was already setting up
his studio and ready to start shooting,
and Tim said, "Let's start doing songs."
He would bring his drawings,
lay them out at the table,
and he would tell me, "We're going into
this world of Halloweenland,
and everybody's singing
"the song of Jack." And I would start
to actually hear it while he was talking.
But in the process of writing the songs,
I happened to be at a place in my life
where I was very famous with Oingo Boingo,
and I wanted out.
I needed to move on to something else.
Jack was the king of Halloweenland,
and when you're a writer,
lead performer in a band, you know,
that's your kingdom,
and everybody kind of loves you for that,
but you wanna leave.
Yet year after year, it's the same routine.
And I grow so weary
Of the sound of screams.
And I Jack, the Pumpkin King.
Have grown so tired
Of the same old thing...
When you're singing Jack, is Jack Danny,
or is Jack something different?
- Something more?
- I don't know. That's a good question,
because, singing in Oingo Boingo
definitely was a different kind
of singing.
- Right.
- And Jack,
I knew, was going always from low to high
to low, so...
There are few who denied
At what I do I am the best.
For my talents are renowned far and wide.
When it comes to surprises
In the moonlit night
I excel without ever even trying...
Like, Jack's voice is gonna go down
to the bottom,
and then up to the top of...
And of course, he's gonna get
a little bit excited,
and when he gets excited,
he sings like this!
What's this? What's this?
There's color everywhere.
What's this?
There's white things in the air...
What's this? I can't believe my eyes
I must be dreaming
Wake up, Jack, this isn't fair!
What's this?
Thank you, sir.
Halloween for me, as a kid,
was my favorite holiday.
You know, back when I was a kid,
parents didn't take us trick-or-treating.
- Hmm.
- We just joined in
with gangs of other kids.
We ran the neighborhoods.
It was our night.
- That's awesome.
- If you were a little kid...
- Yeah.
- You were another...
personality that night.
You weren't an insecure
little weak child. You were a monster,
or a witch, or a hero.
Whatever you wanted to be,
and that was beautiful.
Elfman may have provided
the singing voice for Jack...
but for spoken lines, they turned
to stage and screen actor, Chris Sarandon.
And I'm flying to New York
to meet Chris.
And I'm excited to show him a piece
from my personal collection.
Hi, buddy. How are ya?
We have this symbiotic relationship,
and it's something
that I treasure immensely.
How does it feel forever to be
the voice of Jack Skellington?
How does it feel?
Well, pretty special.
I know how much the movie means
to a very large audience.
Particularly young people come up to me
and say how important Jack was
in their growing up and how integral
he was to their really
having a sense of place in the world.
Well, this Jack
is part of my collection,
and this particular one I've had
for about 15 years and...
- It's in perfect shape.
- Well, I will say
- I've had a little bit of restoration.
- Oh, really? Yeah, it's beautiful.
Have you ever done any posing of Jack?
- Touched the Jack puppet, I mean...
- No, can I?
- Yes, please.
- Oh, thank you!
- Give it a try. I mean, it's...
- Thank you.
An honor.
Even when I first acquired this piece
15 years ago, I had no idea
that I would have an opportunity
to sit with you...
and have you look at this.
And... and how... how easily
it articulates, too.
I mean, it's really something.
- It can move like a human.
- Wow.
It's pretty interesting, you know,
Jack's head just kind of pops right off.
- Mm-hmm.
- And they did the replacement animation.
Replacement animation
is a stop-motion technique
where elements of a puppet are swapped out
over time to simulate movement.
It could be a mouth, set of eyebrows,
a face,
or in Jack's case, it was his entire head.
Around 400 Jack heads were sculpted
to create his facial expressions
and speech.
They were animating to the voice.
So, you see the human hand at work.
- The invisible hand.
- Yeah, yeah.
- It's the phantom hand.
- That's right.
When I talk about this movie, it's the...
One of the first things I talk about
is that the work that these animators did
in this particular medium,
I've never seen anything like it,
and I don't know if I'll ever see
anything like it again.
- Pretty amazing.
- Yeah.
Jack could now talk, sing and emote,
but to be the Pumpkin King,
it takes backbone. Actually,
an entire skeleton made of steel.
I'm on my way to Studio City
to discover what's been locked away
in the vaults
of armature master, Tom St. Amand.
The great and powerful Tom St. Amand.
- Well, nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you too, Sir.
- Yeah. Good to see you.
- I've been wanting
- to meet you for a long time.
- Oh, you're kidding.
- Big, big fan of your work.
- Oh, thanks so much.
Why was I starstruck? Let me explain.
Remember this shot? Tom St. Amand.
And this one? Tom St. Amand.
And one of my all-time favorites,
Tom St. Amand.
I mean, nearly every movie I loved
as a kid, this guy was involved with.
In the world of visual effects,
this man is a god,
and I'm standing in his garage.
Wow, look at this stuff.
- So, you built armatures on Nightmare.
- I did.
An armature is the inside mechanism
of a stop-motion puppet
that has a series of ball and hinge
and swivel joints,
and you're able to tighten and loosen
the tension on each of these
so that you can move and pose it
a frame at a time,
and that's where it'll stay
to give you time to go over
and hit the camera shutter.
And most of these had
a latex exterior covering,
skin and the hair and all that.
And since we had to make multiples
of every character, we would have
somebody do a sculpt
and then make a mold,
and then we would cast the armatures
into the mold.
We would make ten or 15 Jack Skellingtons,
five or six of the Sallys.
And I actually engineered an armature kit
so that some of the characters
- could share parts.
- Wow.
Tim Burton had a way
of designing characters
that have these great, big bodies
and these little, tiny feet.
- So, that was such a...
- And did that make it difficult
- to animate?
- It was a little harder to animate
because you'd have to really tighten down
tight on the ankle joints.
I'd like to make a guess.
I would say this is either.
- Finkelstein's wife or Finkelstein.
- This is Finkelstein.
- Ah.
- This is the, uh...
- Sally.
- Evil scientist.
You're not ready for so much excitement.
Yes, I am.
- Wow, look at that head.
- Yeah.
- The armature in the head.
- Yeah, we put joints into the face
so that he can talk,
because he had this kinda duck-like face
and he would, kinda, talk like this,
- "Sally, and nice to see you."
- That's pretty good.
We had other things
like a little wire for part of his lip,
and little tiny joints up in the brows.
You can kinda see him in his chair
just pretending to sit here...
- Mm-hmm.
- And how strong the armature is.
I mean, look at these little joints.
- Yeah.
- Yet, it's holding this position
- really strongly.
- Yup.
And we have the saxophone player.
He doesn't have a jointed armature,
he has a wire armature in him.
- Wow!
- Nice work, bone daddy.
- And then this guy over here...
- This is the accordion player.
It's interesting how, you know,
this foam latex...
as it dries up,
it becomes like dry crackers,
and it almost turns to dust.
You can see, too, that the parts
that would get handled the most
- are where most of it has worn away.
- That's right.
How did you learn what an armature was?
Ray Harryhausen was a huge influence
on me getting into the business.
I saw these movies at a very early age.
It was just like, boi-oi-oi-oing.
"Wow! I don't know how they do that,
- "but I wanna do that."
- That's amazing.
Working in this whole environment,
you know, the sets,
the props, the puppets,
it really was what you hoped
it would be when you were a little boy.
I think about it every day.
- The sense of accomplishment.
- It was, you know.
And, yeah, you had something
that you could hold up,
you could pick it up, and you could point
at and go,
"Boy, I can't believe I made that"
If I'd had more time to think about it,
I would have been scared maybe, but...
but you just... it was just...
- It was...
- I know what you mean.
It was just taking each of these things
a job at a time, and saying,
"Okay, now we're gonna do this today."
It was like a dream job.
After seeing Tom's amazing armatures,
I wanted to see more
of this intricate artwork...
and find out how it was crafted
to meet the needs of the story.
Hey!
My journey's taken me to Hollywood
and a Tim Burton-themed bar
called Beetle House.
This is not the first time
You tried to get away.
This is not a party
Where people know your name...
The perfect venue to check out
some nightmarish props.
I've invited producer Kathleen Gavin,
character fabricator Bonito DeCarlo
and set builder Fon Davis,
and asked them to play
a little show and tell
with their treasures from the film.
At the end of production,
sets are being destroyed,
there are some extra pieces left over.
How did you guys wind up with this stuff?
There had been a tradition for years
and years that at the end of movies,
crew would get cels or storyboards
or, you know, s... something.
You get some of the artwork
that was left over from the production.
Right, get some of the artwork.
So, it was the same principle.
It's overwhelming how much stuff...
- Yeah.
- When you have 24 stages,
how many sets are going into that.
We built a set and a half per week
- for two-and-a-half years.
- Two years.
- Oh, my gosh!
- Yeah.
You were like building these things.
What was it, like, you had to now
destroy your artwork?
Uh, I don't know,
there's something cathartic
about taking a sledgehammer...
to two years of your work!
- So, we got two Spiral Hills.
- Yeah.
Oddly, actually,
you have three Spiral Hills.
- Wait, I only see two.
- There's a Spiral Hill under this...
- Oh, really?
- Snow. Yeah.
After we got all of the shots
with the regular Spiral Hill...
we actually covered
the original Spiral Hill with snow
- and so that one's underneath this.
- Ah.
The outside areas is just, uh,
polystyrene foam, like, bead foam
- that you'd get with a refrigerator.
- Interesting.
And you could see...
- the feet prints.
- Amazing.
This path where Jack was walking,
we used what we call crunchy foam,
it's an open cell foam,
so that when they tied a puppet down,
it would crush and compress
and then stay down.
- Ah.
- And then it would also look like snow.
- It had that, kinda, glisteny look to it.
- That's so creative.
And then the animator, you could see
there's a little clay
around the footprint, he would actually
sculpt the snow squishing around the feet.
- So, it's a really intense process...
- Wow.
Just to get that little...
few little steps on there.
And think of that.
Frame by frame,
the animator is shooting that.
- Amazing.
- I'm so excited that Kathleen brought
this one, because now the story
is all the more interesting.
We shot the regular Spiral Hill,
and then it would break here,
we'd unbolt it,
and we'd switch out for that one...
- Which is the animated...
- and then we shot the
- animated Spiral Hill.
- Right.
So this has got an armature
in the back,
- doesn't it?
- Yeah, it does.
I can turn it around for you.
It's really cool.
So let me... I'll do it slowly,
- however, we wanna keep it intact.
- Wow!
So, this is just like a puppet,
really. It's an armature, right?
It's the same principle.
Also, at the top, you see
these little holes,
- these little screw holes here? So...
- Is that for Jack?
This is where Jack's foot...
would have been tied down.
Tie the foot in there, take a step,
tie the foot in there.
And then there's, it's like a fabric
material that this is made of, right?
- Well, because it has to bend.
- That is so cool.
And then this character
is my favorite puppet
because he's so weird.
So much character in the film.
This is a very complicated puppet.
All of these little feathers
were hand-painted on,
and the hair were hand-glued on.
The mouth moved with paddles,
rather than just a wire
around the outside.
Approximately how many puppets
did you make?
We counted 227.
- Wow!
- Yeah, yeah.
That didn't take into consideration
all of the bugs inside of Oogie.
There were thousands of those.
Wow!
It was challenging.
I think that's what a lot of us
liked about it,
we had to think on your feet all the time,
come up with methodologies.
You didn't know
if they were going to work.
So, I'm proud of it.
Well, you certainly should be.
When you make a movie,
you have the actual end product
- that you're all are working towards...
- Yeah.
But just as important as that is
the process of it
and the experience of it.
We started with an empty building
and we ended with an empty building.
- Right.
- That's how we got this stuff.
Puppets, landscapes, songs,
I'm gaining insight
into every aspect of this film.
All except one. The script.
I'm heading to the WGA Library
in Hollywood
to get a look at the original screenplay
and talk to its writer, Caroline Thompson.
First draft, August fifth, 1991.
So, I wrote this script in two weeks.
- Two weeks. Okay, first...
- And that's all...
You wrote the first draft in two weeks.
- And that was it, that's the only draft.
- Wait, what... what?
Yeah, this is it. It has Tim's notes,
and I think there's, like, four of them
in here? They needed it.
There's only one script.
- Yup. That was it.
- One revision.
"The band clanks
the tune right back, phrase for phrase."
But with a skeleton feel."
Exclamation point.
That's Tim's writing right there.
Let's see what this one is.
Oh, "Too much."
- This was the evil scientist and Sally.
- Hmm.
The way I came
to work on Nightmare,
I was living with Danny Elfman
at the time.
He was my boyfriend,
and he was working on the songs.
So, obviously, I knew a lot
about what was going on with the project.
Tell me about that dynamic,
since you were living with him.
He wrote the music,
you're writing the script.
So I wrote the script and gave it to him
to read, and he hated it.
And he said, "Oh, this is not what I had
in mind at all." And I said, "Well...
This is what I've done.
I'm handing it into the studio."
Oh, my gosh!
I know. Danny's just... You know,
- we're all control freaks in our own way.
- Of course, of course. Yeah,
- I mean, yeah, he...
- I had no idea what he had in mind.
This is what I wrote, and so they said,
"Thank you so much. We are so relieved.
This is brilliant.
- "Now we can make a movie."
- Right.
I have brought a piece
from my collection
- that I wanna show you.
- Okay.
She is very delicate.
Oh, wow.
- Oh, wow! God, you have the whole girl.
- Yes.
- There she is!
- Just be careful.
- Her hair is...
- I will.
- Very brittle.
- Okay. Just like mine.
You've aged too, girlfriend.
It reminds me of a Breyer pony.
Yes, yes.
- The... Her hair...
- Her hair is all one piece.
- All one piece.
- Foam latex with the center core
- of lead so it could be posed.
- Yes.
When you came on to do the screenwriting
for Nightmare Before Christmas,
Sally was a different character.
She was a different shape.
She was zaftig,
she was sort of like a vamp.
And I couldn't really relate to her.
And the character I would lean toward
would be, sort of, more like
the Little Match Girl.
She would be more fragile
but be able to show how tough she is.
And Rick Heinrichs redesigned her.
Looks like somebody went into a trashcan
and pulled out what pieces
- they could find of clothing.
- Yeah. Absolutely.
And he made her more stick-like.
I could understand her narrative better
- than when she was just this, sort of...
- Mm-hmm.
Full-blown babe.
And I loved her isolation and her need
to escape. It just gave her places
- to start and places to go.
- Yeah.
The first image that came
to my mind for her
was her throwing herself out of a tower,
coming apart when she landed
and sewing herself back together again.
And then the other image that came to me
was of her detaching one of her legs
- and leaving it to seduce Oogie Boogie...
- my, my...
so she could go around
and save Sandy Claws.
What? You trying to make a dupe out of me?
So, she was
my primary contribution to the film,
her story.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
has had a very strong cultural impact.
I think everybody feels
like they don't belong
and everybody can relate to that,
- but very few people had explored it.
- Yeah.
And I think
between Tim and Danny and myself,
and the films we collaborated on,
that we gave voice...
to people who felt
- like they didn't have a voice.
- Mm-hmm.
And that's a great source of satisfaction
to me.
I'm traveling up the coast to visit
a one-of-a-kind stop-motion collection.
Owned by the man
who gave these puppets life...
Director Henry Selick.
And I can't wait to see these things
in person.
Holy cow! Oh, my gosh!
That is so cool!
That's actually used in the film.
He's just waiting for his next frame
so he can come to life again.
And you've got happy Zero
at the front.
Is he connected from the sleigh
to the front of the reindeer,
or would they have been individually
held up?
Individually held up. So that...
so that we could get
- a sense of rise and fall.
- Ah.
- Right. Of course.
- And turning.
Supported on various rigs
as he flew through the air.
You know, even the rope he holds
has wire in it so that it can move
and animate.
There's the maniac himself.
The guy who thought he could do
Christmas better.
Why did you choose this particular piece
to take at the end of production?
To me, it was most representative
of who this character was.
This is what his, uh, dream is,
before it all goes wrong.
They're celebrating! They're thanking us
for doing such a good job!
Right before he gets shot down...
uh...
when he's really riding high.
Merry Christmas to all,
and to all a good night!
First feature for Disney to do
stop-motion animation.
- Yeah.
- Your directorial debut
for feature-length film.
- The pressure you must've felt.
- I didn't feel any pressure.
- Really?
- I can't explain it...
but the fun factor was so high.
With Tim as the godfather,
we had this protection.
- Ah.
- So I'd get occasional notes
and I'd say, "Tim, what...
what do you think?"
What… what should I..." He'd say,
"Well, if it makes sense, do it.
If it doesn't, ignore it."
So I thought that's how all films work.
Henry had a unique vision
for the film
that required breaking all the rules.
The film would include shots requiring
smoke...
flames...
splashes, and in-camera lighting.
Henry was determined to make a film using
the most modern movie-making techniques,
like motion control cameras.
Over 80 percent of the film
consists of moving shots.
- Hello!
- Something that was unheard of
in the world of stop-motion.
We wanted to feel like what live action
had come to.
- Cinematic.
- Yeah.
I mean, that film is extremely cinematic.
And it's so rewarding to find the ways
to bring the emotions to life.
Looking back on Nightmare,
what does that film mean to you?
It's... It means many levels of things,
but the film comes out...
enough people like it and it makes
some money. And then it's gone.
But then it came back to life
and it found its fans.
And it's been generations now, you know.
Kids...
who originally saw it grew up,
had their kids,
and they kept growing. And then,
every year, kids are out trick-or-treating
and kids would show up
in Nightmare Before Christmas outfits.
And if their parents were with them,
I'd say,
"Look, I got something to show you."
And I'd...
I'd have them come in
and then I'd show 'em that.
They usually just scream, "Wow!"
It's like, excitement, but also ins...
"This is insane."
I mean, to be a part of anything
that lasts more than five minutes,
- you know, in the entertainment world...
- Oh, this film is gonna last forever.
Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas
means a lot to me.
Who can't relate to feeling
like an outsider?
Maybe that's what drew me to collecting
relics from this film in the first place.
And even after years of collecting,
I've been amazed to see how much more
there was left for me to learn.
And now, after discovering
new artifacts...
- This is an important piece.
- Right.
And hearing everyone's stories
of invention and discovery...
Wow.
- Of emotion...
- Hi, buddy. How are ya?
And personal connection...
Jack is like two years of my life.
It gives me a greater appreciation
of the pieces I have
and a deeper understanding
of this movie I love.
The Nightmare Before Christmas,
it blew my mind.
What's this? What's this?
There's color everywhere...
The music, characters, and story
all came together
to make Disney's first stop-motion
feature film a timeless classic.
And what's so incredible
is how it was made.
Characters and sets had to be
inventively designed,
allowing this 1991 movie
to push the medium to new heights.
From a skeletal Santa puppet
to an iconic hill,
every object from this film has humor,
emotion, and a unique twist.
I've been researching and collecting
these items for years,
but I'm still eager to make
new discoveries and get the inside scoop
from the people who put so much passion
and creativity into them.
In a movie, every detail,
no matter how small,
is designed to tell you something.
I'm Dan Lanigan, and I've spent
my entire life collecting artifacts
from my favorite films.
Now, I am setting out to learn more
about the props from the Disney movies
that I love...
This thing is so cool.
Because these historic artifacts
make you feel
like you're a part of the story.
My investigation begins
with a visit to production
and special effects house.
Fonco Studios.
Fantastic. Whoa.
I'm here to see an iconic set-piece.
And joining me
is one of the film's visionaries,
Rick Heinrichs.
Rick's lent his artistic talent
to dozens of classic movies,
including The Big Lebowski, Fargo,
AND CAPTAIN AMERICA: The First Avenger,
in addition
to almost every Tim Burton film.
This actually lives
in the Disney Archives
- and goes on exhibit from time to time.
- Oh, it's so much fun to see this.
When was the last time you saw this?
- On stage, I think.
- Really?
- Wow!
- Yeah.
Just the way
we were approaching our sets,
you can see how light is raking
across texture.
- It's real light on a real object...
- That's...
And there's just
an inherent quality to that
that I find superior
to a CG-created environment.
The textures became such an important part
of creating
a three-dimensional look
of Tim's own kinda graphic style,
- gives you that sense of a 2D, 3D effect.
- Yes.
Really was a product
of the experimentation we'd done
on a bunch of different little projects
at Disney...
- Right.
- Back in the early '80s.
Another project
that Tim and I worked on together was
an experiment with stop-motion animation
for which, uh, I took Tim's designs
and created puppets
in three-dimensional sets.
It... it's basically the story of a...
of a little boy who thinks
that he's Vincent Price.
It was really the development
through all of that period
that we came upon the concept of doing.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
as a half-hour TV special.
Very inspired by the Rankin and Bass
and Grinch Who Stole Christmas.
Do you remember
what the reaction was?
There was an appreciation,
but nobody bit because it was too weird,
and I don't think that they realized
that there was
an audience for something like this.
You didn't get the short episode
- but you got a feature film out of it.
- Yeah.
- That was one of the interesting things...
- Yeah.
That I learned about Hollywood.
Nothing ever really dies, it just goes
to sleep for a while,
hangs on the shelf and comes out
at the time when it can be what it was
really meant to be in the first place.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I brought Rick here to reunite him
with Spiral Hill.
Little did I know,
he brought something for me.
- Wow!
- So, this is the original Jack
that we sculpted from 1982.
- You sculpted this?
- Yes.
- This is an important piece.
- It is.
So, this was well before the idea
of a feature film was in the works.
That's correct.
This is a maquette, the 3D blueprint
used by the puppet builders
for all of the Jack Skellingtons to come.
It's interesting how similar
the design is...
- Yes.
- To, ultimately, what was executed.
How many variations
did you have to go through?
I only ever made one Jack,
and that was it.
That's amazing.
You're literally pouring yourself
into this...
- Yeah.
- Object to bring it to life.
I did these sculptures
from Tim's drawings.
This one and another one of Zero.
Is that how you met him?
I actually first started to work
with Tim Burton
in between some of his drawings
of the fox for The Fox and the Hound.
- Hmm.
- I went to his office
and I discovered that he was doing
drawings of something else
entirely different.
One day, Tim brought in some sketches
and a poem that contained the foundation
of what would become Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas.
This sculpture has been the heart
of everything that came afterwards.
It is a three-dimensional object
that people actually engage with.
Have you had to repair him
over the years?
This guy hasn't needed
any restoration at all,
partly because he's almost entirely
made out of wire.
And I'm sure the paint on top of it
helps keep it together a little bit, too.
You know, I wanna check something. I...
I think we kept more or less
the same scale, but...
He looks to be about the same scale...
- Yeah!
- Doesn't he?
- Jack at home on Spiral Hill.
- Yeah, exactly.
And Jack stepped right down.
Having learned Jack's origin story,
I want to talk to the man
who helped give Jack his soul
and see what treasures
might be hiding in his collection.
Mad musical genius and long-time
Tim Burton collaborator, Danny Elfman...
both wrote the songs for the film
and gave Jack
his distinctive singing voice.
What does it mean? What does it mean?
And as if I couldn't love this guy more,
Danny Elfman is also a dedicated collector
of oddities.
But oddest of all is the skinniest
Santa Claus you've ever seen.
- Voilà!
- Here's Jack.
- Here's Jack.
- Look at him. Amazing.
Jack is like...
two years of my life.
And a very meaningful two years
of my life.
Well, meaningful to a lot of people,
so your time was worthwhile.
I can't tell you how great that is to hear
from something that I thought would be
long forgotten and disappeared by now.
So, this puppet was restored, right?
Well, when I first got him,
he was in good shape,
but about every two to three years,
he's gotta go through a restoration.
They're built of materials
that begin to decompose.
- Yes.
- And I remember
one year coming and looking at Jack
and realizing there was
a little puddle of red...
plastic. I go, "He's melting." So,
- I'm just...
- Yes, his hat was melting, wasn't it?
Yeah.
And I'm just like, "Little by little,"
I'm gonna keep you going, gonna
keep you going here, Jack, don't worry."
The hands have always been a problem,
they tend to turn to a liquid material.
And then the Santa Jacks, the hat's made
out of the same material as the hands,
- so that's the same problem and...
- Yeah.
You've done a great job of keeping
the body clean,
'cause that stuff tends to drip
on the costume,
- and then it's really tough to get off.
- Okay.
- I'm really impressed.
- That's good to know.
This is so cool. I am hanging out
with Jack and Jack.
Elfman tends to throw himself
into his work.
I could make a Christmas tree
And there's no reason I can find
I couldn't handle Christmas time
I'll bet I could improve it, too
And that's exactly what I'll do!
It seems as though Jack
was more than just a character to you.
Oh, he... he was,
but let me be completely clear about it.
He's totally Tim Burton's creation.
Tim brought me the story,
and we didn't have a script.
Henry Selick was already setting up
his studio and ready to start shooting,
and Tim said, "Let's start doing songs."
He would bring his drawings,
lay them out at the table,
and he would tell me, "We're going into
this world of Halloweenland,
and everybody's singing
"the song of Jack." And I would start
to actually hear it while he was talking.
But in the process of writing the songs,
I happened to be at a place in my life
where I was very famous with Oingo Boingo,
and I wanted out.
I needed to move on to something else.
Jack was the king of Halloweenland,
and when you're a writer,
lead performer in a band, you know,
that's your kingdom,
and everybody kind of loves you for that,
but you wanna leave.
Yet year after year, it's the same routine.
And I grow so weary
Of the sound of screams.
And I Jack, the Pumpkin King.
Have grown so tired
Of the same old thing...
When you're singing Jack, is Jack Danny,
or is Jack something different?
- Something more?
- I don't know. That's a good question,
because, singing in Oingo Boingo
definitely was a different kind
of singing.
- Right.
- And Jack,
I knew, was going always from low to high
to low, so...
There are few who denied
At what I do I am the best.
For my talents are renowned far and wide.
When it comes to surprises
In the moonlit night
I excel without ever even trying...
Like, Jack's voice is gonna go down
to the bottom,
and then up to the top of...
And of course, he's gonna get
a little bit excited,
and when he gets excited,
he sings like this!
What's this? What's this?
There's color everywhere.
What's this?
There's white things in the air...
What's this? I can't believe my eyes
I must be dreaming
Wake up, Jack, this isn't fair!
What's this?
Thank you, sir.
Halloween for me, as a kid,
was my favorite holiday.
You know, back when I was a kid,
parents didn't take us trick-or-treating.
- Hmm.
- We just joined in
with gangs of other kids.
We ran the neighborhoods.
It was our night.
- That's awesome.
- If you were a little kid...
- Yeah.
- You were another...
personality that night.
You weren't an insecure
little weak child. You were a monster,
or a witch, or a hero.
Whatever you wanted to be,
and that was beautiful.
Elfman may have provided
the singing voice for Jack...
but for spoken lines, they turned
to stage and screen actor, Chris Sarandon.
And I'm flying to New York
to meet Chris.
And I'm excited to show him a piece
from my personal collection.
Hi, buddy. How are ya?
We have this symbiotic relationship,
and it's something
that I treasure immensely.
How does it feel forever to be
the voice of Jack Skellington?
How does it feel?
Well, pretty special.
I know how much the movie means
to a very large audience.
Particularly young people come up to me
and say how important Jack was
in their growing up and how integral
he was to their really
having a sense of place in the world.
Well, this Jack
is part of my collection,
and this particular one I've had
for about 15 years and...
- It's in perfect shape.
- Well, I will say
- I've had a little bit of restoration.
- Oh, really? Yeah, it's beautiful.
Have you ever done any posing of Jack?
- Touched the Jack puppet, I mean...
- No, can I?
- Yes, please.
- Oh, thank you!
- Give it a try. I mean, it's...
- Thank you.
An honor.
Even when I first acquired this piece
15 years ago, I had no idea
that I would have an opportunity
to sit with you...
and have you look at this.
And... and how... how easily
it articulates, too.
I mean, it's really something.
- It can move like a human.
- Wow.
It's pretty interesting, you know,
Jack's head just kind of pops right off.
- Mm-hmm.
- And they did the replacement animation.
Replacement animation
is a stop-motion technique
where elements of a puppet are swapped out
over time to simulate movement.
It could be a mouth, set of eyebrows,
a face,
or in Jack's case, it was his entire head.
Around 400 Jack heads were sculpted
to create his facial expressions
and speech.
They were animating to the voice.
So, you see the human hand at work.
- The invisible hand.
- Yeah, yeah.
- It's the phantom hand.
- That's right.
When I talk about this movie, it's the...
One of the first things I talk about
is that the work that these animators did
in this particular medium,
I've never seen anything like it,
and I don't know if I'll ever see
anything like it again.
- Pretty amazing.
- Yeah.
Jack could now talk, sing and emote,
but to be the Pumpkin King,
it takes backbone. Actually,
an entire skeleton made of steel.
I'm on my way to Studio City
to discover what's been locked away
in the vaults
of armature master, Tom St. Amand.
The great and powerful Tom St. Amand.
- Well, nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you too, Sir.
- Yeah. Good to see you.
- I've been wanting
- to meet you for a long time.
- Oh, you're kidding.
- Big, big fan of your work.
- Oh, thanks so much.
Why was I starstruck? Let me explain.
Remember this shot? Tom St. Amand.
And this one? Tom St. Amand.
And one of my all-time favorites,
Tom St. Amand.
I mean, nearly every movie I loved
as a kid, this guy was involved with.
In the world of visual effects,
this man is a god,
and I'm standing in his garage.
Wow, look at this stuff.
- So, you built armatures on Nightmare.
- I did.
An armature is the inside mechanism
of a stop-motion puppet
that has a series of ball and hinge
and swivel joints,
and you're able to tighten and loosen
the tension on each of these
so that you can move and pose it
a frame at a time,
and that's where it'll stay
to give you time to go over
and hit the camera shutter.
And most of these had
a latex exterior covering,
skin and the hair and all that.
And since we had to make multiples
of every character, we would have
somebody do a sculpt
and then make a mold,
and then we would cast the armatures
into the mold.
We would make ten or 15 Jack Skellingtons,
five or six of the Sallys.
And I actually engineered an armature kit
so that some of the characters
- could share parts.
- Wow.
Tim Burton had a way
of designing characters
that have these great, big bodies
and these little, tiny feet.
- So, that was such a...
- And did that make it difficult
- to animate?
- It was a little harder to animate
because you'd have to really tighten down
tight on the ankle joints.
I'd like to make a guess.
I would say this is either.
- Finkelstein's wife or Finkelstein.
- This is Finkelstein.
- Ah.
- This is the, uh...
- Sally.
- Evil scientist.
You're not ready for so much excitement.
Yes, I am.
- Wow, look at that head.
- Yeah.
- The armature in the head.
- Yeah, we put joints into the face
so that he can talk,
because he had this kinda duck-like face
and he would, kinda, talk like this,
- "Sally, and nice to see you."
- That's pretty good.
We had other things
like a little wire for part of his lip,
and little tiny joints up in the brows.
You can kinda see him in his chair
just pretending to sit here...
- Mm-hmm.
- And how strong the armature is.
I mean, look at these little joints.
- Yeah.
- Yet, it's holding this position
- really strongly.
- Yup.
And we have the saxophone player.
He doesn't have a jointed armature,
he has a wire armature in him.
- Wow!
- Nice work, bone daddy.
- And then this guy over here...
- This is the accordion player.
It's interesting how, you know,
this foam latex...
as it dries up,
it becomes like dry crackers,
and it almost turns to dust.
You can see, too, that the parts
that would get handled the most
- are where most of it has worn away.
- That's right.
How did you learn what an armature was?
Ray Harryhausen was a huge influence
on me getting into the business.
I saw these movies at a very early age.
It was just like, boi-oi-oi-oing.
"Wow! I don't know how they do that,
- "but I wanna do that."
- That's amazing.
Working in this whole environment,
you know, the sets,
the props, the puppets,
it really was what you hoped
it would be when you were a little boy.
I think about it every day.
- The sense of accomplishment.
- It was, you know.
And, yeah, you had something
that you could hold up,
you could pick it up, and you could point
at and go,
"Boy, I can't believe I made that"
If I'd had more time to think about it,
I would have been scared maybe, but...
but you just... it was just...
- It was...
- I know what you mean.
It was just taking each of these things
a job at a time, and saying,
"Okay, now we're gonna do this today."
It was like a dream job.
After seeing Tom's amazing armatures,
I wanted to see more
of this intricate artwork...
and find out how it was crafted
to meet the needs of the story.
Hey!
My journey's taken me to Hollywood
and a Tim Burton-themed bar
called Beetle House.
This is not the first time
You tried to get away.
This is not a party
Where people know your name...
The perfect venue to check out
some nightmarish props.
I've invited producer Kathleen Gavin,
character fabricator Bonito DeCarlo
and set builder Fon Davis,
and asked them to play
a little show and tell
with their treasures from the film.
At the end of production,
sets are being destroyed,
there are some extra pieces left over.
How did you guys wind up with this stuff?
There had been a tradition for years
and years that at the end of movies,
crew would get cels or storyboards
or, you know, s... something.
You get some of the artwork
that was left over from the production.
Right, get some of the artwork.
So, it was the same principle.
It's overwhelming how much stuff...
- Yeah.
- When you have 24 stages,
how many sets are going into that.
We built a set and a half per week
- for two-and-a-half years.
- Two years.
- Oh, my gosh!
- Yeah.
You were like building these things.
What was it, like, you had to now
destroy your artwork?
Uh, I don't know,
there's something cathartic
about taking a sledgehammer...
to two years of your work!
- So, we got two Spiral Hills.
- Yeah.
Oddly, actually,
you have three Spiral Hills.
- Wait, I only see two.
- There's a Spiral Hill under this...
- Oh, really?
- Snow. Yeah.
After we got all of the shots
with the regular Spiral Hill...
we actually covered
the original Spiral Hill with snow
- and so that one's underneath this.
- Ah.
The outside areas is just, uh,
polystyrene foam, like, bead foam
- that you'd get with a refrigerator.
- Interesting.
And you could see...
- the feet prints.
- Amazing.
This path where Jack was walking,
we used what we call crunchy foam,
it's an open cell foam,
so that when they tied a puppet down,
it would crush and compress
and then stay down.
- Ah.
- And then it would also look like snow.
- It had that, kinda, glisteny look to it.
- That's so creative.
And then the animator, you could see
there's a little clay
around the footprint, he would actually
sculpt the snow squishing around the feet.
- So, it's a really intense process...
- Wow.
Just to get that little...
few little steps on there.
And think of that.
Frame by frame,
the animator is shooting that.
- Amazing.
- I'm so excited that Kathleen brought
this one, because now the story
is all the more interesting.
We shot the regular Spiral Hill,
and then it would break here,
we'd unbolt it,
and we'd switch out for that one...
- Which is the animated...
- and then we shot the
- animated Spiral Hill.
- Right.
So this has got an armature
in the back,
- doesn't it?
- Yeah, it does.
I can turn it around for you.
It's really cool.
So let me... I'll do it slowly,
- however, we wanna keep it intact.
- Wow!
So, this is just like a puppet,
really. It's an armature, right?
It's the same principle.
Also, at the top, you see
these little holes,
- these little screw holes here? So...
- Is that for Jack?
This is where Jack's foot...
would have been tied down.
Tie the foot in there, take a step,
tie the foot in there.
And then there's, it's like a fabric
material that this is made of, right?
- Well, because it has to bend.
- That is so cool.
And then this character
is my favorite puppet
because he's so weird.
So much character in the film.
This is a very complicated puppet.
All of these little feathers
were hand-painted on,
and the hair were hand-glued on.
The mouth moved with paddles,
rather than just a wire
around the outside.
Approximately how many puppets
did you make?
We counted 227.
- Wow!
- Yeah, yeah.
That didn't take into consideration
all of the bugs inside of Oogie.
There were thousands of those.
Wow!
It was challenging.
I think that's what a lot of us
liked about it,
we had to think on your feet all the time,
come up with methodologies.
You didn't know
if they were going to work.
So, I'm proud of it.
Well, you certainly should be.
When you make a movie,
you have the actual end product
- that you're all are working towards...
- Yeah.
But just as important as that is
the process of it
and the experience of it.
We started with an empty building
and we ended with an empty building.
- Right.
- That's how we got this stuff.
Puppets, landscapes, songs,
I'm gaining insight
into every aspect of this film.
All except one. The script.
I'm heading to the WGA Library
in Hollywood
to get a look at the original screenplay
and talk to its writer, Caroline Thompson.
First draft, August fifth, 1991.
So, I wrote this script in two weeks.
- Two weeks. Okay, first...
- And that's all...
You wrote the first draft in two weeks.
- And that was it, that's the only draft.
- Wait, what... what?
Yeah, this is it. It has Tim's notes,
and I think there's, like, four of them
in here? They needed it.
There's only one script.
- Yup. That was it.
- One revision.
"The band clanks
the tune right back, phrase for phrase."
But with a skeleton feel."
Exclamation point.
That's Tim's writing right there.
Let's see what this one is.
Oh, "Too much."
- This was the evil scientist and Sally.
- Hmm.
The way I came
to work on Nightmare,
I was living with Danny Elfman
at the time.
He was my boyfriend,
and he was working on the songs.
So, obviously, I knew a lot
about what was going on with the project.
Tell me about that dynamic,
since you were living with him.
He wrote the music,
you're writing the script.
So I wrote the script and gave it to him
to read, and he hated it.
And he said, "Oh, this is not what I had
in mind at all." And I said, "Well...
This is what I've done.
I'm handing it into the studio."
Oh, my gosh!
I know. Danny's just... You know,
- we're all control freaks in our own way.
- Of course, of course. Yeah,
- I mean, yeah, he...
- I had no idea what he had in mind.
This is what I wrote, and so they said,
"Thank you so much. We are so relieved.
This is brilliant.
- "Now we can make a movie."
- Right.
I have brought a piece
from my collection
- that I wanna show you.
- Okay.
She is very delicate.
Oh, wow.
- Oh, wow! God, you have the whole girl.
- Yes.
- There she is!
- Just be careful.
- Her hair is...
- I will.
- Very brittle.
- Okay. Just like mine.
You've aged too, girlfriend.
It reminds me of a Breyer pony.
Yes, yes.
- The... Her hair...
- Her hair is all one piece.
- All one piece.
- Foam latex with the center core
- of lead so it could be posed.
- Yes.
When you came on to do the screenwriting
for Nightmare Before Christmas,
Sally was a different character.
She was a different shape.
She was zaftig,
she was sort of like a vamp.
And I couldn't really relate to her.
And the character I would lean toward
would be, sort of, more like
the Little Match Girl.
She would be more fragile
but be able to show how tough she is.
And Rick Heinrichs redesigned her.
Looks like somebody went into a trashcan
and pulled out what pieces
- they could find of clothing.
- Yeah. Absolutely.
And he made her more stick-like.
I could understand her narrative better
- than when she was just this, sort of...
- Mm-hmm.
Full-blown babe.
And I loved her isolation and her need
to escape. It just gave her places
- to start and places to go.
- Yeah.
The first image that came
to my mind for her
was her throwing herself out of a tower,
coming apart when she landed
and sewing herself back together again.
And then the other image that came to me
was of her detaching one of her legs
- and leaving it to seduce Oogie Boogie...
- my, my...
so she could go around
and save Sandy Claws.
What? You trying to make a dupe out of me?
So, she was
my primary contribution to the film,
her story.
The Nightmare Before Christmas
has had a very strong cultural impact.
I think everybody feels
like they don't belong
and everybody can relate to that,
- but very few people had explored it.
- Yeah.
And I think
between Tim and Danny and myself,
and the films we collaborated on,
that we gave voice...
to people who felt
- like they didn't have a voice.
- Mm-hmm.
And that's a great source of satisfaction
to me.
I'm traveling up the coast to visit
a one-of-a-kind stop-motion collection.
Owned by the man
who gave these puppets life...
Director Henry Selick.
And I can't wait to see these things
in person.
Holy cow! Oh, my gosh!
That is so cool!
That's actually used in the film.
He's just waiting for his next frame
so he can come to life again.
And you've got happy Zero
at the front.
Is he connected from the sleigh
to the front of the reindeer,
or would they have been individually
held up?
Individually held up. So that...
so that we could get
- a sense of rise and fall.
- Ah.
- Right. Of course.
- And turning.
Supported on various rigs
as he flew through the air.
You know, even the rope he holds
has wire in it so that it can move
and animate.
There's the maniac himself.
The guy who thought he could do
Christmas better.
Why did you choose this particular piece
to take at the end of production?
To me, it was most representative
of who this character was.
This is what his, uh, dream is,
before it all goes wrong.
They're celebrating! They're thanking us
for doing such a good job!
Right before he gets shot down...
uh...
when he's really riding high.
Merry Christmas to all,
and to all a good night!
First feature for Disney to do
stop-motion animation.
- Yeah.
- Your directorial debut
for feature-length film.
- The pressure you must've felt.
- I didn't feel any pressure.
- Really?
- I can't explain it...
but the fun factor was so high.
With Tim as the godfather,
we had this protection.
- Ah.
- So I'd get occasional notes
and I'd say, "Tim, what...
what do you think?"
What… what should I..." He'd say,
"Well, if it makes sense, do it.
If it doesn't, ignore it."
So I thought that's how all films work.
Henry had a unique vision
for the film
that required breaking all the rules.
The film would include shots requiring
smoke...
flames...
splashes, and in-camera lighting.
Henry was determined to make a film using
the most modern movie-making techniques,
like motion control cameras.
Over 80 percent of the film
consists of moving shots.
- Hello!
- Something that was unheard of
in the world of stop-motion.
We wanted to feel like what live action
had come to.
- Cinematic.
- Yeah.
I mean, that film is extremely cinematic.
And it's so rewarding to find the ways
to bring the emotions to life.
Looking back on Nightmare,
what does that film mean to you?
It's... It means many levels of things,
but the film comes out...
enough people like it and it makes
some money. And then it's gone.
But then it came back to life
and it found its fans.
And it's been generations now, you know.
Kids...
who originally saw it grew up,
had their kids,
and they kept growing. And then,
every year, kids are out trick-or-treating
and kids would show up
in Nightmare Before Christmas outfits.
And if their parents were with them,
I'd say,
"Look, I got something to show you."
And I'd...
I'd have them come in
and then I'd show 'em that.
They usually just scream, "Wow!"
It's like, excitement, but also ins...
"This is insane."
I mean, to be a part of anything
that lasts more than five minutes,
- you know, in the entertainment world...
- Oh, this film is gonna last forever.
Tim Burton's
The Nightmare Before Christmas
means a lot to me.
Who can't relate to feeling
like an outsider?
Maybe that's what drew me to collecting
relics from this film in the first place.
And even after years of collecting,
I've been amazed to see how much more
there was left for me to learn.
And now, after discovering
new artifacts...
- This is an important piece.
- Right.
And hearing everyone's stories
of invention and discovery...
Wow.
- Of emotion...
- Hi, buddy. How are ya?
And personal connection...
Jack is like two years of my life.
It gives me a greater appreciation
of the pieces I have
and a deeper understanding
of this movie I love.