Making a Murderer (2015–…): Season 1, Episode 4 - Indefensible - full transcript

He says to me all the time
he didn't do anything.

That they more or less
told him what to say.

- Hey, Mom.
- What?

When do I get another attorney?

You'll get a different one
for Friday.

April 10th is WrestleMania.

Your dad's taping it.

Yeah, but I won't get to see it.

When you come home, you can.

Yeah,
when's that gonna be? Next year?

No, we're gonna
get you out before then...



because you're not guilty, hon.

Yeah, I know that.

I feel sorry for him.

He's only 16 years old,
he's only a kid yet.

They pressed him so much...

he probably don't know which way to go.

But it still makes me look bad, though.

If I was out there
and all of that was happening...

I don't know,
which side would you want to believe?

There ain't nothing good
coming out of this.

This is NBC 26, live at ten.

Developing story tonight.

Accused killer Brendan Dassey
has a new attorney.

Well, Dassey's new attorney
is Len Kachinsky of Neenah.



Kachinsky says he accepted the Dassey case

knowing it would be his greatest
professional challenge.

We have a 16-year-old who,
while morally and legally responsible,

was heavily influenced by someone
that could only be described

as something close to evil incarnate.

Kachinsky says he may be willing
to approach prosecutors

about a plea deal in this case,
but if the case does go to trial,

he'll ask for a jury
from western Wisconsin.

- All right.
- "Evil incarnate." How about that?

- Strong words.
- That's what he called Steven Avery.

Hey, Mom,
my attorney, does he wear glasses?

I don't know, hon,
I've never seen him.

I seen him on the TV.
Because he's...

- That's a public defender.
- Yeah.

- His name is Len.
- Yeah.

- Did he come up by you?
- No.

I just came in third
in a primary

for circuit judge here
in Winnebago County.

It was kind of a bruising experience,
as politics can be.

And I got the call
from the public defender's office,

say about ten days after the primary,
to represent Mr. Dassey.

Of course,
that had been all over the news, uh,

and Avery's case of course had been
all over the news since about November.

I saw Dassey as a young man in trouble...

that I think there could be
a certain amount of sympathy for.

Someone who was influenced
by a 43-year-old uncle

into doing things he ordinarily...
would not do.

Did he have anybody
with him when he was questioned?

- Parents or otherwise?
- Uh, not that I'm aware of, no.

Is that common or...?

It's quite common for persons
to be interrogated or questioned

outside the presence of their parents,
depending on what the situation is.

I suppose in this case, especially with
his mother being Steve Avery's sister,

they might not have wanted
to have her there.

When the state arrested
and charged Brendan Dassey,

it turned some of
Steven's family against him...

it removed a potential defense witness,

and the state turned the public.

It finally had a compelling story
of a vicious crime.

It had a horror story to tell.

And the media had twice as many
court appearances to cover, you know?

Twice as many shots you can do
of Averys in jail jumpsuits.

The state got three new charges.

Something to give it a motive,
to explain the crime.

Something to up the ante,
you know, at trial,

because any time the state
can add more than one count...

particularly if each one of these counts

carries an enormous
potential prison sentence...

the state increases its chances of winning
in a very concrete, practical way.

Why? Because the defendant,
if he's to win in any meaningful way,

has to run the board.

He has to have the jury come back
"not guilty" on everything.

For the state to win,
it needs to have one charge stick.

- Associated Press.
- Hello?

- Hello, Steven?
- Yeah?

- Hi. Thanks for calling.
- Uh-huh.

First of all, let's start out
by telling me how you're doing.

I could do better
if I was out of here.

- Yeah, I bet.
- You know?

Well, you know, if you...

We can just jump right in
and if you want to begin

by telling me what you think
of your nephew's confession?

Um, he was coerced to say it.

So are you...

You said that you think
that he was coerced to say those things...

I know he was. Because there
ain't no evidence to back it up.

They took everything out of the trailer.
They ain't gonna find nothing.

So do you place any blame on your
nephew for making those statements?

With the detectives, it don't
take much for a young person to...

You know, coerce him to say that stuff.

Would you describe him as smart?

- Brendan?
- Mm-hm.

Um... not really.

Legal experts believe
accused killer Steven Avery

may be sending a message
to his nephew Brendan Dassey

through the media.

Avery spoke with
the Associated Press

in his first interview since
Dassey's statement to police.

Steven Avery says his nephew
Brendan Dassey "isn't very smart"

and that Dassey was "coerced"
into confessing.

I think the meaning of the words
"not very smart" is reference

to possible consequences to Dassey

if he testifies against Avery.

Dassey's testimony
would be critical if prosecutors hope

to convict Steven Avery of rape,
kidnapping and false imprisonment.

Acts that Brendan Dassey claims
he witnessed with his own eyes.

- Hello?
- Hello?

- Yeah?
- Yeah. You watch the news?

- About what?
- About you.

It says, "Teen's attorney
seeks to throw out confession."

What's that mean?

He wants to throw out the statement
that they made you say, or whatever.

Yeah. They said that
my statements were inconsistent.

What does "inconsistent" mean?

I don't know exactly.

Maybe they're false
or something?

I don't know.

Well, that's what I'm thinking.

So do you like this attorney?

I don't know.
I don't know him much.

Yeah, I know.

Just like, well,
his favorite animal is the same as mine.

- What's that?
- A cat.

Yeah. Pretty soon
you'll have two cats.

- Two cats?
- Mm-hm. Whiskers and Feathers.

- Oh, yeah.
- I got 'em for you.

Yeah.

I love you, turkey.

Why'd you call me that?

'Cause you are my little turkey.

I ain't little.

You're still my baby.

This case, unlike Steve Avery's case,

is gonna rely almost entirely
on the confession.

The only other evidence they probably
would need to get a conviction

is just some of the
surrounding circumstances

about the death of Teresa Halbach.

So if the confession
is ruled to be admissible,

we would have to take a close look

at any possible plea-bargaining
with the state.

The defendant Brendan Dassey
was, at the time of the police interviews,

a student at Mishicot High School,
enrolled in mostly regular classes

but also in some
Special Education classes.

Testing had disclosed an IQ level
in the low average to borderline range.

There is no evidence that he suffered
from any emotional disorder

which made him unusually susceptible
or vulnerable to police pressures.

Nothing on the videotape
visually depicts Brendan Dassey

as being frightened or intimidated
by the questions of either investigator.

On occasion, the interviewers
purported to know details

which in fact were not true.

The court finds that this tactic
of misleading Brendan Dassey

was neither improper nor coercive

because it did not interfere with Brendan
Dassey's power to make rational choices.

In short, the statements
made by Brendan Dassey

to investigators Wiegert and Fassbender
were voluntary statements.

The defendant's motion
to suppress these statements is denied.

To me, I think
if this case goes to trial,

you put the tape of his confession
in the VCR or DVD player and play it,

and, you know,
there's our case right there. Um...

So, yeah.
It's a big victory today for us.

Have you seen the confession, Mike?

I have not, no.

- Hello, Len.
- Hi.

- Here we are for you.
- OK.

- Everybody good?
- Good. All set.

- Yeah.
- What are your thoughts after today?

Well, we're disappointed in, uh...

We're... Let's start over.

We're disappointed in Judge Fox's ruling.

I guess we'll take, uh...

You take a case the way the facts come in.

And Brendan and I will be discussing
the various options we've got in this case

sometime next week.

But are you anticipating having Brendan
testify against Steven Avery?

It's always a possibility that he might,

any time you've got a situation like this.

I guess that's a decision Brendan and I
have to talk over next week.

If there was a plea agreement made,

Brendan certainly would be required
to testify truthfully against Steve Avery.

So we want to look at all the options
before making any final decision.

This is an extremely important decision
that a 16-year-old's gonna have to make.

I can give him advice,
but ultimately it's his decision.

Yep, thanks very much.

It's not a real bombshell...

There's two things I don't know:

Are you sorry for what you did,

and you promise not to do it again?

I know everything else
I need to know about this case,

except for those two things.

So what I want you to do
is make a decision.

I want you to read this form.

And then we're gonna fill it out.

Are you sorry?

I don't know.
Because I didn't do any...

If you're...
Brendan, if you're not... Look at me.

If you're not sorry, I can't help you.

What I don't want you to do
is spend the rest of your life in prison.

Can you look at me?

Do you want to spend
the rest of your life in prison?

OK. You did a very bad thing.

Yeah, but I was only there
for the fire, though.

Brendan, you haven't
told me the truth yet.

And what I don't want you to do right now
is tell me any more lies.

So you gotta make a decision
before you start writing anything.

You're gonna write the complete truth,
no matter what the truth is.

Is there anything missing
from this statement here?

- No.
- You missed...

Is Teresa in that statement?

No.

Then it's missing.

Then it's not a truthful statement.

Would you do this again?

Why not?

'Cause I didn't do nothing.

Well, that's not true.

I was only there for the fire.

I wish that was true.

It is.

You were also in the mobile home.

Not that day, though.

Just so you're perfectly clear...

I want you to testify against
Steven Avery and tell the truth.

And this is how I can help you.

But I can't help you
with those words that you wrote down.

Those words, I can't help you at all.

Why don't you draw another picture
over here of him stabbing her?

Why don't you draw a picture down here...

of you having sex with her there.

OK, why don't you do this...

Why don't you draw a picture of the bed
and how she was tied down.

But draw it big-sized so we can see it.

Thanks very much.
You're doing the right thing.

Turn around.

Hi, Len?

Hi, Len, this is Mike O'Kelly.
I'm with Brendan right now.

Oh, quite well.
Quite well. Very well.

He's given a detailed statement.

Would you like me to call
Special Agent Fassbender

and have him interview Brendan
at this time?

Yes, this is Michael O'Kelly
calling for Special Agent Fassbender.

Hi there.

Hi there, I'm inside
the Sheboygan County jail facility,

and Brendan would like
to visit with you folks.

So he said you can come by
tomorrow morning after breakfast.

He has also prepared a document for me.

And it will be up to you
if you want a copy or not.

OK, Brendan.

I was told by your attorney,
Mr. Len Kachinsky,

that you wanted to speak with us.

Mark and I came out here today,
you know, Saturday morning,

because we wanted to give you that chance.

We've had an opportunity
to look at the evidence in the case

and even your last statement, there's some
areas that you may want to address

because they don't seem to,
you know, necessarily add up.

- Do you understand that?
- Mm-hm.

Did you cut her hair off?

- Yeah.
- Where did that happen?

In the... In the... bedroom.

- What'd you cut the hair off with?
- The knife.

The knife you guys found in the garage?

- Doesn't make sense.
- That's impossible.

You took her out to the garage
and that's when you got the knife.

Explain how that can be.

Did you cut her hair off?

No.

Then why did you just tell us you did?

Brendan?

I don't know.

Why did you ask us to come here?

So you could lie to us?

What do you think your mom would say

if she knew
you were sitting here lying to me?

- I don't know.
- You think she'd be OK with that?

And when I walk out this door right now
and I go call your mom

and tell her that
you've been lying to me...

what do you think she's gonna say?

Mark mentioned talking to your mom about
this and being truthful with her now.

OK? If you're truly sorry, you'll
tell your mother the truth about this, OK?

- Are you gonna do that?
- Yeah.

- When are you gonna do that?
- Tonight.

OK. Probably be a good idea,
before we tell her.

Hello?

Hello. This is a collect call from...

Brendan.

- Hello?
- Yeah?

Yeah?

Did you talk to anybody?

What do you mean "talk to anybody"?

'Cause, um, Mark and, uh...
Fassbender are gonna talk to you.

About what?

About, well...

Huh?

About the case.

What do you mean?

Well...

I haven't talked to nobody.

I told you, nobody calls me
and lets me know nothing.

- Yeah?
- Yeah.

Yeah,
but you might feel bad with...

- if I say it today.
- Huh?

About what all happened.

- Huh?
- About what all happened.

What all happened?
What are you talking about?

About what me
and Steven did that day.

So Steven did do it?

Yeah.

Oh, he makes me so sick.

I don't even know how
I'm gonna do it in court, though.

What do you mean?

I ain't gonna face him.

- Face who?
- Steven.

- You know what, Brendan?
- What?

He did it.
You do what you gotta do.

So in those statements,
you did all that to her too?

Some of it.

But what about when I got home
at five, you were here.

- Yeah.
- Yeah.

When did you go over there?

Well, I went over earlier
and then came home before you did.

Why didn't you say something
to me then?

I don't know, I was too scared.

You wouldn't have had to been
scared because I would've called 911

and you wouldn't
have been going back over there.

Maybe she would've been alive yet.

Did Brendan tell you this today?

Really?

Yeah.

Hm...

Well, give me a call tomorrow.

OK?

All right. You hang in there.

Steven just buried her son.

Those were her words, Barbara's words.

I don't know.

I tell her they're innocent
and she don't believe me.

No matter what I can say.

She did before,

and now the cops did this again
and now she don't believe 'em again.

I don't think...
To be honest with you,

I don't think the boy's
got a prayer in hell.

Really.

Dateline Saturday.
A young woman vanishes.

Does her disappearance
have a mysterious link

to a terrifying crime 20 years before?

This is the perfect Dateline story.

It's a story with a twist,
it grabs people's attention.

Here's a man who was found innocent,
you know, after 18 years in prison.

And now, oh, my gosh, he could be back
in jail for a crime he really did commit.

Right now, murder is hot.
That's what everyone wants.

That's what the competition wants

and we're trying to beat out the other
networks to get that perfect murder story.

They can't go a couple
days without putting my name on the TV.

How you gonna get a fair trial?

They say it'll all die down.

Well, it can't die down
if it's always on TV.

Brendan goes up,
they always talk about me.

They're saying I'm guilty
before I even go to trial.

Where's the justice?

I'm looking at the phone bill
from October 31st.

I called Steven at 5:36.

Supposedly when all... this...

murder or whatever
was supposedly happening.

And we talked for 15 minutes, and...

the conversation was normal.

He didn't sound rushed
or like he was doing anything.

And if he was in the middle
of doing something,

we wouldn't have talked for 15 minutes.

Then I called back at 8:57.

Everything was normal then, too.

He was getting ready...
I think he was in bed.

And if he was hiding something
or if he would've done something,

I could hear it in his voice.

And that was all fine.

That day, when that woman come
to take those pictures, we all knew it.

Everybody knew.

Stevie says,
"I gotta be home at a certain time."

He's got... "That gal's coming
to take a picture of the car."

You telling me a man's gonna tell somebody
something like that and then kill her?

I don't think so.

I've been in law enforcement
of one type

and in one position or another
for the last 40 years.

I have never, ever witnessed a search
like was done in this case.

You don't just obtain a warrant
and that gives you the property

for as long as you want.

It's the most unprofessional mess
I've ever seen.

They took over that property
for lengths of time

that gave the opportunity
for evidence to be fooled around with.

Jesus, you don't go into a place
and search it 18 times

and keep looking for something unless...

The only reason you go in a second time

is because you believe
you missed it the first time.

Once a place is cleared, it's normally
released back to the person.

The key was worthless,
as far as I was concerned, as evidence,

because of the number of searches.

Now this is a key that
was used by her for several years,

and they took the key
and meticulously scrubbed it for DNA

and that was, at first glance,
a good thing.

But they came up and represented

that the only DNA found on that key
was Steven Avery's.

That is patently ridiculous.

Any crevices, anything else in that key
would have retained her DNA.

And for them to be able to say
"only Steven's DNA is on this"

indicates to me that

that key was scrubbed clean

and his DNA was placed on it.

Some might think,
"Well, you know, we...

Our hands were tied."

You know? That you got a client
who's saying that he's being framed.

Publicly, that's kind of the defense
you'd better go with

or you're contradicting your own client.

But it really wasn't that way here. It...

The defense was raised because
we think the evidence pointed that way.

Here's what we saw.

The RAV4, the victim's RAV4 is found
on the Avery Salvage Yard property.

A ridiculous place to leave it
if he was the killer.

There's a crusher on the property.

He knows how to use the crusher.

He was operating the crusher
the day before it was found.

And yet this vehicle wasn't crushed.
Why not?

I mean, that's something that most killers
don't have the opportunity to do.

You know?

If you're a killer and you happen to run
an auto salvage, you have a crusher,

you can get rid of the victim's car.
But he didn't.

Second, his blood was found
inside the vehicle,

but only in a few areas.

Spots, so to speak.

There was evidence
that he had a cut on his finger,

but what didn't make sense was that there
was no fingerprints of Avery's at all,

in or on the vehicle.

That would mean, if Avery was the killer,
he had to have had gloves.

But if he's got gloves on,
how could he be actively bleeding

and leaving his blood behind?

That was totally inconsistent.

So it looked to us like
maybe his argument that,

"If my blood is in that vehicle,
somebody planted it there,"

maybe the evidence was pointing that way.

We've heard it since he
was charged with murdering Teresa Halbach

more than six months ago.

Steven Avery
and members of his family

say police in Manitowoc County
have it out for him.

The sheriff says
the conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Tonight, we look into if framing
is really a viable defense

in this high profile murder case.

Fox 11's Lauren Cook
has the final part of her series,

"The Avery's: An Inside Look."

Avery's family believes
police planted evidence

in and around the salvage yard.

They're free to say
what they want.

The fact is they have to prove it.

And I don't think they could.

Sheriff Ken Petersen says
his detectives worked by the book.

He's been here 31 years
and says he knows the Averys

and what he calls
"Steven's colorful past."

You say he'll kill again.
Why do you say that?

I think that's his personality.

And Petersen says framing
Steven Avery would be much too difficult.

If we wanted to, um...

eliminate Steve,
it would've been a whole lot easier

to eliminate Steve
than it would be to frame Steve.

Hell...

- But...
- What do you mean by "eliminate"?

If we wanted him out of the picture,
like in prison,

or if you wanted him killed,
you know,

it would've been much easier
just to kill him.

- In the meantime...
- This is insane.

- This is absolutely insane.
- ...from Mishicot High School.

He's in a juvenile detention center
in Sheboygan. Brooke and Tom?

Lauren, thank you very much.
Still ahead for us tonight...

I... You know, where do you...
where do you start?

With digging through
the levels of this thing, any of this.

- Yep.
- It's, um...

It's fascinating.

I need to know the truth.

- Yeah?
- Yeah.

Well, you know I'm telling you
the truth that it's not true.

Then why say it?

That was when they
came up here, remember?

- Yeah. On that Saturday.
- Yeah.

They said that they knew
already what happened.

That they wanted me to...

They just wanted it
coming out of my mouth.

Brendan, you don't just
come up with something like that

if something like that didn't happen.

Or is it true, that he did kill her?

Not that I know of, I told you.

He might've but not... not with me.

So you're honestly

- telling me the truth?
- Yeah.

You didn't have nothing
to do with this.

No.

- Don't lie to me, Brendan.
- I ain't.

But what I can't figure out is why
you said all this shit if it's not true?

And how you came up with it?

Guessing.

What do you mean, "guessing"?

I guessed.

You don't guess
with something like that, Brendan.

Well, that's what I do
with my homework, too.

Yeah, I know.

- Well, I do...
- This is what put... No.

The statement you made
is what put you in there.

Yeah.

And now you're gonna have to get...
so everybody out there...

you'll have to get them to...

You're... You're not...
You're gonna go to prison.

- Yeah?
- Yeah.

For the rest of your life.

For something that's not even true.

Yeah.

Is that what you wanted?

No.

Well, how you gonna
turn everything around now?

I don't know.

Well, you better just start
putting your head on your shoulders,

and start thinking.

How can I? I'm really stupid,
Mom. I can't help it.

Why do you agree
to everything then?

'Cause I'm stupid, I told you.

You're not stupid to me.

Yeah, I am.

No, you're not.

For me, it's really, really hard.

I want to drink. All the time.

It's confusing, it's frustrating.

'Cause there's not much I can do
to prove that he didn't do it

or that Brendan didn't do it.

And I want to do...

You know, get 'em out so that
they can prove they didn't do it.

But it's just... nerve-wracking.

It was nice to be down here alone
'cause I could think.

And then I had a couple beers and...

It just made me not...
So I wasn't so angry.

If I'm caught, I'd go to jail.

They told me, "Get a job and move."

I moved and got a job. I'm working.

I'm doing everything they told me to.

My lawyer was supposed to talk
to my probation officer on Monday

about having this "no contact" lifted.

I just think they're doing it...

thinking that, well, I'll get sick of it
and just leave him for my own...

I don't know.

'Cause it'd be better for me
if I didn't talk to him

and got him out of my life.

Is what I think they think.

But it ain't gonna happen.

Anything to screw with me, they do.

I don't see how
they can keep me from Jodi.

You know, that's just
this detective, though.

Going to her probation officer
and telling her what to do.

You know, that shouldn't be.

That's just another thing
that they got control of.

You know, I don't want to lose Jodi.

I just keep thinking,
"Just wish I could talk to him."

Just tell him I love him.

"See, I'm still here.
I ain't going nowhere."

I think I got it.

In this one.

Yeah. 1982.

Right there.

I remember him.

And him.

Oh, here he is.

Kenny Petersen.

I didn't like the statement
he made, either.

That's a hell of a thing
for a sheriff to say.

He said that right on TV.

Defense calls
Sheriff Kenneth Petersen.

In 1985, you were requested
by the then-sheriff of Manitowoc County,

Tom Kocourek to arrest Mr. Avery
on a charge of attempted murder.

Yes.

And that involved a violent assault

on a beach here in Manitowoc County?

Correct.

Later, the claim that Mr. Avery had made
that he was innocent of those crimes

proved to be true.

Possibly.

- I'm sorry?
- I would have doubt.

- You have doubts about that?
- Yes.

Uh, I want to be clear.

One of the reasons you disengaged
personally from the Halbach investigation

is that you personally
had sat for a deposition

in Steven Avery's civil claim
against Manitowoc County.

No, I don't think that had anything
to do with that decision. No.

Let's break this down. You had your
deposition taken on October 13, 2005.

- Does that sound right?
- It's possible.

About two and a half, three weeks
before Ms. Halbach disappeared?

Somewhere in that time frame.

And the other two members
of your department

who had their depositions taken
about the same time

were Lieutenant Lenk and
Sergeant Andrew Colborn, correct?

I don't know.
I don't know who gave depositions.

You don't disagree that they both
sat for depositions in that lawsuit

in mid-October, 2005,
you just don't know?

As I recall, that had something to do
with some information

that came somewhere in the late '90s.

Mid-1990s, that's right.

Yeah, that's...

Yeah, but I don't know when they were
deposed. I wouldn't have a clue.

You know, in your life, have you ever
spent a day or a night in jail

- for a crime you didn't commit?
- No.

If you were in Steven Avery's chair
and you were in his shoes, so to speak,

would you trust the Manitowoc County
Sheriff's Department

in the investigation and prosecution
of yourself a second time?

Objection. Speculation.

I'm not asking you
to speculate at all.

Relevance then.

I'm gonna sustain
the objection. Any further questions?

No.

All right,
the witness is excused.

If I may, Your Honor,
we will not find another case

in which the sheriff opines

not just that the defendant
is guilty of the charged offense,

but opines that if he's acquitted somehow,

he'll murder someone else in the future.

On what possible basis?
I have no idea.

This was really remarkable.

Before we even get
to the bizarre discussion

of how it might have been easier
to kill Steven Avery than to frame him.

Off the charts.

My impression is Brendan's
sort of intimidated by his mother.

Uh, she's... you know, relatively,

in terms of physical stature,
rather petite, but, uh...

has the...
sometimes the attitude of a pit bull.

Uh, she's very, you know...

What she doesn't have in physical size
she can make up with her bark.

- Hello?
- Yeah?

Yeah.

Did you call
my attorney this morning?

I tried to get a hold of him.

But he won't return my phone calls.

He gave me this piece of paper
about me pleading or something.

Huh?

About me
pleading guilty or something.

- For you to plead guilty?
- Yeah.

- Brendan?
- What?

That's what he gave you?

Well, he... he said that...

if I choose the plea thing,
that's what I...

You can't. You can't.

If you take that plea bargain, Brendan,
you're saying you're guilty.

But if...
if I go to trial and that,

he said it's gonna be hard for the jury,
you know,

to believe me if I tell the real,
true story.

Your attorney believes you did it.

- Yeah?
- Yeah.

He wants to put you away, Brendan.

I don't want to stay in here
until I'm 76 or whatever.

I know. I know.

I don't know what to tell you, Brendan.

If you didn't do it,
you need to take it to court.

- You need to take it to trial.
- I didn't, though. Yeah.

Why would his lawyer tell him
he's guilty? Take a plea bargain?

That ain't no lawyer,
far as I'm concerned.

A lawyer is supposed to work for you.

So you would
say Steven Avery is masterminding

your dismissal basically
or your substitution?

I think that's his desire, yes.

I'm getting rid of Len
for the simple reason

is because he's not helping my son.

I'm not doing it because of Steven.

Steven's got a good attorney.

Brendan don't.

Brendan needs somebody
like what Steven's got.

I'm not saying Steven did anything wrong.

I believe he's innocent too.

Are you requesting
that your current counsel

- be replaced by someone else?
- Yeah.

Mr. Kachinsky, do you believe that this
request is his free and unfettered choice?

Um,
I'm not sure about that, Your Honor.

I have received information
that there has been an ongoing campaign

by Mr. Dassey's co-defendant
to encourage him to obtain new counsel

that might be more
to his co-defendant's... liking.

Mr. Dassey,
how do you get along with Mr. Kachinsky?

Not bad.

Does "not bad" mean good or what?

Yeah.

Do you guys fight when you're together?

- No.
- Can you talk with him?

Yeah.

Do you think he's doing what he believes
to be in your best interest?

Sort of.

Tell me why you want
to change lawyers at this point.

'Cause I think he... that he...

I think he...

No, he...

That I think he thinks I'm guilty.

And that's the reason that
you want to get a different lawyer?

Yeah.

I don't see or hear anything
that tells me

that there is an irreconcilable
conflict or difference.

There certainly isn't,

I don't believe, any breakdown,
complete or otherwise, in communication.

Accordingly, I'm going
to deny Mr. Dassey's motion

to substitute someone
for Mr. Kachinsky as his counsel.

Bunch of dirty bastards.

Dean Strang,
Steven Avery's attorney, said and I quote,

"Steven Avery is not
orchestrating a campaign

to get rid of Brendan Dassey's lawyer.

My own sense is that
the whole Dassey and Avery family

is hoping that the current lawyer,
or some lawyer,

simply will defend Brendan Dassey."

Investigators
were after her since day one, almost.

How many times did they go after her?

They pushed and pushed and pushed.

All right.

So when did you get put in?

- Tuesday.
- Tuesday.

He had court. I had to come to town too

- and we passed him.
- Mm-hm.

It's just contact,
which you're not supposed to have.

I'm trying not to. I don't want...
I'm sick of this place.

- I don't...
- I got a good job

- and I don't want to lose it.
- That's good.

Let's get you outta here.

So you're gonna call
your P.O. today, too?

Well, they told me
I had to go see her.

Hello?

What did Jodi all say to you?

She said you and her were done.

So they'd stop screwing with her.

Yeah, that's what she says.

So there ain't
no me and her no more?

So I might as well give it up then.

The only thing I was
hanging on to was her.

That was the only thing
keeping me together.

I understand that.

There's more fish in the sea, too, though.

I don't want nobody else.

I wanted to get married.

I got nothing now.

Needless to say,
it was a surprise to me

when the letter got written.

Essentially this is an alibi saying,
you know,

"I wasn't there when the homicide
took place. I was at home."

It says "Hello, I was going
to write to you a while back,

but I didn't have a pencil.

The truth is, me and my brother Blaine
came home from school at 3:45,

walked down the road..."

And he played PlayStation
until his mom came home

between 5:00 and 5:30.

Then he claims he got a call
at 6:00 from Blaine's boss.

Told him that Blaine
went trick-or-treating,

watched more TV until 7:00
when he got a call from Steve Avery.

And then... Which he characterizes
as an invitation to go to the bonfire.

And then they drove the golf cart
around his mother's yard

to find garbage and put a bunch
of junk in the fire that night.

And that's...
Says that's basically what happened.

"I went home, went to bed,
got some sleep."

Barb Janda's admitted that
she's the one that, you know,

encouraged Brendan to write the letter.

Why she did that, I don't know.

It just seems... dumb.

What is understandable is that

if Brendan was gonna be a witness
at Steve Avery's trial,

each and every statement he gave

that was inconsistent
with what he told the police

on March one or on May 13th, um...

would be beneficial to Steve Avery.

So I think she probably knows that.

"P.S. Me and my mom think you are
a good judge. Thank you for your time."

That's contained in the letter.

He's a learning-disabled 16-year-old...

who's...

not equipped to...

face the trouble in which he finds
himself and isn't getting much help.

In my view.

It's just...

Whatever his personal failings here,

there have been a series
of systemic failings that are...

deeply troubling if you...

think about them too much or...
take them personally.

You know, I'm not sure that I'm...
doing fully what I should be doing

when I'm worrying about...

whether other people
who are not in my charge are...

um...

being ground up
and spit out by this system.

Or being treated unjustly.

I need to worry about whether Steven is,

sort of single-mindedly about that,
I think, in some... in some way.

- Yes, can we help you?
- Hi. Here to see Steven Avery.

- OK, just have a seat, please...
- Thanks.

- Got a second?
- Sure.

- Is it on?
- Come on.

Do you feel he's had adequate
representation to this point?

I think he has, yes.

I think, uh,
the steps we took were reasonable.

I respectfully disagree with the judge.

Yet you're still saying it
wasn't a mistake to let him be interviewed

with just your investigator.
You'd do that over again?

Oh, I wouldn't do it over again
because... because of all this.

But the, uh...

I think in the final analysis,
the issue of the May 13th statement

probably will never come up
in Brendan's case again.

The state most likely is not gonna use it.

Thanks, Len.

It's hard.

You know, I'm in here by myself.

I can't talk to nobody.

I can't even talk to the lawyer
over the phone, it's being recorded.

At least this lawyer is good
and he's doing his job and...

he's trying to figure out...

who did this and everything else.

I don't know how he's gonna do it,

but I guess he's pretty smart
so he'll know what to do.

Sheriff Petersen was
the arresting officer of Avery in 1985.

He's now the head of that office,

and clearly...

clearly has a strong dislike for Avery.

If the very top guy has
this kind of attitude about Avery

and that kind of personal involvement
in the case of Avery,

that's gonna permeate the department,
the whole department.

If not, at least it's going to permeate
the upper echelon that's close to him.

And that would include
the lieutenants and the sergeants.

So we looked around and one guy's name

just kept coming up over and over and over
every place we looked.

At critical moments.

And that was Lieutenant James Lenk.

Lenk is the guy who finds the key
in the bedroom

on the seventh entry,
supposedly in plain view.

Lenk is deposed just three weeks
before this Halbach disappearance.

And then, most peculiar of all,

is when we looked in Steven's old
1985 case file in the clerk's office.

Some items from that court file
ultimately proved to exonerate Steven.

Interestingly enough, the transmittal form

that goes with the evidence in 2002
to the crime lab

is filled out by none other than, at that
time, Detective Sergeant James Lenk.

And I said to myself, "Whoa.

This is starting to sound
more than just coincidental."

Um...
No, I thought there was a big box.

I thought it was gonna be
in the big box, too. I didn't...

My understanding is that is it.

The other items
were fingernail scrapings and hair.

This is Jerry Buting. Is Dean available?

OK, there's the date.
3-13-96.

- On the red tape or... Yeah.
- Yeah.

But we don't know who put
this piece of Scotch tape over this.

Right.

No, I don't want to leave a...
This is very important I talk to him.

Can you see if somebody
can hunt him down?

- OK?
- Bring it out.

Want to spin it around?

It looks like it's cut through,
doesn't it?

Let me tell you. This is a red-letter day
for the defense.

It could not have been better.

The seal was clearly broken
on the outside of the box

and inside the box is a Styrofoam kit.

The seal is broken in that.

We pulled the Styrofoam halves apart

and there, in all of its glory,
was a test tube that said "Steven Avery,"

inmate number, everything on it.

The blood is liquid.

And get this.

Right in the center of the top
of the tube is a little tiny hole.

Just about the size
of a hypodermic needle.

Yes.

And I spoke with a LabCorp person already
who told me they don't do that.

You can... Have you fallen
on the floor yet or no?

Think about it, Dean.

If LabCorp didn't stick the needle
through the top, then who did?

Some officer went into that file,
opened it up,

took a sample of Steven Avery's blood
and planted it in the RAV4.

Yeah, he knows where we're going.

- Game on.
- Game on, exactly. Game on.