Cultureshock (2018–…): Season 1, Episode 3 - The Rise of Trash TV - full transcript
This documentary takes a look at the rise of the raw and salacious real-life television theatre of tabloid talk shows like "The Jerry Springer Show" and "Geraldo".
(eerie music)
- Talk shows have
really been perceived
as the kind of freak
show of American society.
- These shows are
disgusting, they're depraved.
- They called these
talk shows cultural rot.
- [Woman] Cultural rot.
- These shows and are
part of what's wrong
in our society today.
(shouting)
- There is nothing on our show
that isn't already in the bible,
that isn't already
in Shakespeare,
that isn't already
in great literature.
But we had never seen
it on television before.
- You belong to me!
(murmuring)
(bustling music)
- Suddenly we were
seeing real people
be authentically
themselves on television.
- I've never felt like a male,
I don't look like a male--
- Americans hadn't seen
people open up like this.
- It is your fault.
- And this was real.
- Who did you leave him for?
- A woman.
(shouting)
- Gave this country a chance
to really look at itself,
sort of shined a mirror back.
- Welcome to the program!
- You had Geraldo, you
had Sally Jessy, Donahue--
- Watch this!
- [Maury] Jenny Jones,
you had Jerry Springer.
- Here's Dana!
-[Guest] Bitch!
- If you're in a
race, you want to win,
and that's where
the crazy started.
- [Maury] You are not--
(screaming)
- I really do think
that daytime talk shows
were the dawn of
reality television.
(ambient tuning music)
- That's a gay relationship.
You weren't dressing
at the time, were you?
- I always looked like a girl
since I was one year old.
- One of the claims
to fame, obviously,
of daytime talk shows,
the way in which they've
innovated television,
is that they put
ordinary people on TV.
It is the focus of the genre.
Ordinary people on television
telling their personal stories.
- [Woman] Everyone knew him--
- These stories are real.
It's not fake.
Fake doesn't work with an
American television audience.
(static hisses)
- [Laura] But let's not forget
this wasn't always the case.
- Cock-a-doodle-doo.
(laughter)
(chuckles)
- Holy hole in a donut!
(laughs)
(guns fire)
- Back then, television was
a different kind of medium.
(laughter)
There was nothing gripping,
there was nothing
at stake, really.
- Steven, well, why did
you come here today?
- Soap operas were so popular,
but there was always
the sense of fakeness.
- Because I wanted to look
into your eyes, that's why.
- [Host] Here they are!
- [Drew] I suppose ordinary
people were on game shows.
- [Host] Hello, Yvonne.
- There really was not
much real life happening
to somebody on game shows.
- All right.
- Talk to us about it.
- Of course, there were
talk shows,
but maybe more often than not,
interviewed professional
experts or celebrities.
(laughter)
- [Announcer] The
password is professor.
- That was a wildly
different era
than it is these days.
(goofy music)
(static hisses)
- And then came Donahue.
(swinging music)
He, I think, first
aired in 1967.
- Hi, Jane Fonda, thank you.
Recognize Jane Fonda--
- He was doing the
show in Dayton,
and he was doing
a local talk show.
- [Guest] First time
I played golf, I was--
- Celebrities would come in--
(laughter)
authors would come in.
- In the early days of Donahue,
he had a similar type
of interview style
as the rest of them.
Phil Donahue would
soon become the pioneer
of the genre in many ways.
- Television was sitting on
the edge of a powerful shift,
one that would actually
transform pop culture.
- The Donahue Show was
about to be groundbreaking.
(cheering)
And per usual--
(static hisses)
It was an accident.
- On this program is
Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
Mrs. O'Hair is probably the
world's most famous atheist.
- [Guest] What do you
have a against God?
- Uh, first--
- Why does he bug you?
- He was doing
the show as usual.
- Phil said that he was
lost on one show before.
- [Phil] I didn't
say I was lost.
- You said--
- I did not!
- And by accident, as these
things always happen--
- We'll be back
in just a moment.
Back in a moment.
- During the commercial breaks
to keep the audience
entertained,
he would let the audience
ask a guest a question.
- Have you ever
been tempted to pray
but didn't because
you are an atheist?
- Never.
- And then somebody
said, "Wait a minute.
"That's interesting."
- [Man] Are you Jewish?
- No, I'm not.
- [Man] Are you saved or lost?
- Well, I think I'm saved--
- That's not relevant!
- It is to me when he's asking--
- No, you have to
answer his question.
- This was just as
interesting a lot of times
as the show itself,
so somebody very smart
said, "Wait a minute, why don't
we put that on television?
"Let's take what we're
doing in the commercial
"and let the audience in."
(collegiate orchestrated music)
- [Phil] Yes, you
had a question.
- Jamie. We're
from Pennsylvania.
- Hi, hi, Jamie.
Where are you from?
- I'm from Dayton.
- I used to work here at TV2.
- And your name is?
- [Audience Man] Terry Wilson.
- He was the first person
to bring the audience
into the show.
- I just wanted to know when
you wrote your first song,
how old you were.
- Well, I was 13 years old--
- Let alone allowing
regular folk
to ask a celebrity a question.
You never saw it.
- Have you ever considered
doing a centerfold?
- Have I?
(laughter)
- [Phil] We're
back here on the--
- Donahue really
innovated the genre.
He got rid of sitting
behind a desk.
- Yes, ma'am. What's the matter?
And on the eighth
day, the host shut up.
Don't worry about
saying something stupid.
I hold the record,
you can't top me.
- He was one of the
first people to talk
about different
kinds of sexuality,
and marriage.
- I don't want to say
this, we have two families
who have divorced, and some
of whom have remarried,
but they all live in
the same community.
- Okay, now, what
do we have here?
- Obviously, the format was
really, really working well.
- It's excellent, I think.
- So it occurred to me one day--
- We'll be back
in just a minute.
- Why isn't a woman
doing a show like this?
- Daytime television in general
was sort of considered
women's terrain.
- My body, it was my decision.
- Do you feel the need
to have your own child?
- The woman's gotta have a
different way of looking at this
than the way
Donahue's looking it.
And we made a development deal
for me to develop a
show and find somebody.
(pensive orchestrated music)
- The idea of being
the first woman host
was not so much
radical as unpopular.
Men then and now
control the media,
and a woman really should
just stay in her place,
and they can't get ratings,
so, you know, we don't need 'em.
- Yeah, it was, you know,
it was a man's world.
But that didn't stop us.
(upbeat easy listening music)
(applause)
- In case you're
just joining us,
we're talking today
about something
that's really fascinating.
Donahue was doing more
philosophical topics.
We've been talking about
people who are obsessive
and compulsive, and
Mike says that's him.
I started my show by
doing human topics.
Being anorexic
and being bulimic,
they're not the same thing.
- Anorexia and bulimia
are very different.
- Being gay.
What was it like when you
told your mother, Tony?
- She kept denying
it, she kept saying,
"No you're not, no you're not."
- [Sally] Being a bad child.
- It's just one of
those things that
I reacted out of frustration.
- Being an outsider.
You don't have a pronoun.
You would prefer me
not to use he or she.
- I like being who I am.
Why should I try
to be anybody else?
- Sally brought a kind
of intimacy to the show
that was missing from the
more issue-oriented shows
that Phil Donahue was doing.
- People are probably
asking why are we talking
about this today.
One of the reasons
is, of course,
that the purpose of what
we try to do here every day
is understanding.
I wanted to communicate
that almost everyone
is pretty much the same,
and that things that
you're going through--
- I didn't know what
was wrong with me,
I still didn't know
anything about OCD,
I didn't know what it was.
- Someone else has gone through.
- You had a certain idea
of what a drug addict was,
what an alcoholic was.
- Most of the time,
we were wrong.
We brought it out and showed
these were real people
with real problems,
so you were learning.
- Have you survived as
a woman with four kids
and just a part time income?
I mean, it must be tough.
- Sally Jessy drew audiences in
and sort of helped paved the way
for women to begin
hosting talk shows.
- We'll be right back.
(cheering)
- Then Oprah came on
the scene and perfected
the whole therapeutic turn.
I think for the primarily
female audience,
it was important to
have female hosts.
- Do you mind if
I give you a hug?
- The audience began
to trust Sally.
(applause)
I remember thinking, "Wow.
"Here we go."
(cheering)
- Donahue and Sally became stars
emphasizing the
things they do best.
Issues delivered in a way
that people could relate to.
With me, it was
more people watched
wondering when the
bomb was gonna go off.
(funky music)
- Geraldo had come
into daytime talk
from investigative reporting.
- You get that?
- Yup.
- [Laura] So had this
more sort of masculine,
muck-raking sort of persona.
- Whoa, whoa!
- You know you just sold a kilo
of cocaine to Geraldo Rivera?
(hard-hitting music)
(cheering)
- Geraldo's a bit
a (beep) stirrer,
but in a way, that was his job.
- Maria, our next guest, now 19,
has been in and out of the gang
for all of her teenage years.
Criminal?
- Yeah, I'm from
Compton, 155 Street.
- Inside look into the
world of women bodybuilder.
It had a little of everything
(chuckles) for everybody.
From gang bangers,
or hate mongers.
- [Laura] He was also, I think,
more politically oriented.
- Thank you.
- So I remember a
show where he invited
white supremacist guests
and a black activist guest
on stage.
- Meet John Metzger of the
White Aryan Resistance Youth.
- So our idea was to bring
Roy Ennis from CORE--
he's the chairman of the
Congress of Racial Equality.
These non-racist skinheads,
and these skinheads
in one place,
and see what happened.
Do you not believe, sir,
that Adolf Hitler and
the Nazis were heroes?
- Yeah.
- I really hated them,
they really hated Roy,
they really hated me.
- You're beating
around the bush, Gerry.
- Started with a
lot of, you know,
"Go ahead, go ahead."
Don't push me too hard.
- Oh, come on.
- These guys are
immature clowns.
- And everyone knew that
this whole combustible mix
was going to be
brewed on television.
The Holocaust, did
it happen, Bob Hike?
- Does it matter?
- [Geraldo] Does it matter?
- Geraldo, he always got
himself in the thick of things.
- If you have true belief
in your convictions,
why are you afraid to
let other people speak?
- Because I get sick
and tired of hearing
the sob stories from (beep).
I get sick and tired of
seeing Uncle Tom here
trying to be a white man.
- Go ahead, Roy, go ahead.
It really was putting a
flame and gasoline together.
- You gotta be kiddin',
you gotta be kiddin'.
You gotta be kiddin'.
- I didn't know quite how
it was going to explode.
- [Roy] Hey, hold it!
Hold it!
- Sit down!
(shouting)
(dramatic music)
- Chairs were flying.
(shouting)
Punches were thrown.
- For a street fight to
last a minute and a half--
(shouting)
It's like a war!
(shouting)
If you look at the
video, you see the chair
clearly come sailing
from screen left,
hit me in the face.
- Geraldo broke his nose.
(shouting)
There was a lot of blood.
- All right, sit down!
- I mean, this was
evidence of the real issue,
the emotion, the
intensity, the importance.
- When Geraldo got in
the middle of that fight,
that's the first time we
had seen anything like that
in daytime television.
(siren wails)
- [Laura] It was a
real defining moment
in the genre's history.
It was like the canary
in the coal mine.
It was the harbinger
of things to come.
- The skinhead brawl
was taped around four
o'clock in the afternoon.
It strikes me that
some of of our audience
(chuckles) may be
fairly traumatized.
- This is my first new
day in New York, and--
(laughter)
- [Geraldo] By 6:30,
it was on all the network
national news programs
- Geraldo Rivera is back
in a controversy tonight
because of television.
- After things got out of
hand at a taping session
for his syndicated program.
- [Burt] It was the
lead story that night.
- [Anchorwoman] Group of
avowed white racists who--
- And it was a
daytime talk show.
(speaking in French)
- [John] The sob stories from--
- So even as they
were deploring,
"Look at this, look at
this, isn't this awful?"
- [Tom Brokaw] Guests had
included civil rights
activist Roy Ennis--
- Now let's watch it
again in slow motion.
- [Tom Brokaw] Today he found
himself in a real free for all.
- That realness was
something we all craved.
- [Anchorman] And a group
of avowed white racists
who couldn't resist
name-calling.
- There's fighting on stage.
And that was the first
incarnation of all that.
(speaking in foreign language)
- [Anchorwoman] Rivera
was bloodied but unbowed.
After paramedics patched him up,
the taping session continued.
(shouting)
(pensive music)
- As a result,
it boosted us into the first
rung in terms of ratings.
(cheering)
Thank you!
And then that year,
I was on the cover of Newsweek,
and the headline was "Trash TV."
It was my picture
with my broken nose,
and I became thes
symbol of trash TV.
I think that it was
really a seminal moment.
- This trash TV condemnation
was a real defining moment
in the genre's history
because it sort of
opened up the floodgates.
(audience cheering)
- I think when you talk
about Morton Downey,
you talk about somebody who
was in a class all by himself.
- What an ugly audience!
(concerning music)
Or get the hell out of here!
- He pretty much
deliberately just rejected
sort of civility and decorum.
- I don't apologize
for anything!
- [Laura] In favor of a much
more confrontational way
of hosting a show.
- She is not a slut.
You are!
- He incorporated the audience.
He incorporated them as more
of a lynch mob. (chuckles)
(cheering)
Morton tells you
who the villain is--
- Dictionary says, "Paparazzi,
"an annoying and pesky insect."
- It's my job.
- He insults them--
- Are you an annoying insect?
- And the audience
starts to slobber.
- They are parasites!
They're all parasites!
- How do you not watch that?
- Morton Downey
Junior helped to feed
this trash TV shift.
- It's not just
violence on television,
it's trash in the eyes of many.
- [Burt] Trash TV
became the term.
- Everybody--
- Like fake news.
- Get ready for a
righteous butt-whipping.
- It made people watch them.
(audience roars)
- A person can
only take so much.
- Viewers want to
watch because they can
either relate to what
they're going through--
- It's not my fault
you lost your son.
(cross-talking)
- Or they can say, "Thank God
I'm not going through this."
- [Blonde Man] You're a
lying piece of (beep)!
(audience roars)
- And there's kind
of a discovery.
Producers saw TV talk shows
as an inexpensive
genre to produce
because you're
not paying actors,
and it's not scripted,
you're not paying writers.
That makes it easier
to make a buck.
- Stick with us, we'll be right
back ladies and gentelman.
- And in the early 1990s,
there were a lot of
people who wanted
to get in on that action.
And the safest
approach is to imitate
what has worked for others.
- Is it possible that miracles--
- [Joshua] From Leeza Gibbons
to Carnie Wilson.
- [Laura] Here's where
you get Ortise Berry,
Maury Povich--
- Who finds this
impossible to believe?
Joan Rovers was there.
(laughter)
- Montel came around,
and Jenny Jones.
- And so you really
had what producers
characterized as
the talk show boom.
- At one point,
I would say there were 15
to 20 talk shows on the air.
- So the competition meant
how are we gonna
distinguish ourselves?
And you're gonna look
at what succeeded
and try to do that in a way
that has a little
bit of a twist to it.
- What it was like to be
picked on, sometimes--
- What people tried to do
was brand around the host.
- Why do you hate?
- So Montel was the
ex-military guy, tough love.
- I've asked this question
over and over again,
and none of you
have answered it.
(cheering)
- We believe in justice here
on the Richard Bay show.
- We had fights with pies.
You know, we had the
wheel of torture,
which was a way of
expiating your anger
against somebody else.
- You got boys goin' crazy
when you dress like this?
- Jenny Jones did a
lot of makeover shows,
kind of the softer friend role.
- [Jenny] So mom,
what do you say?
- [Selma] I love it!
- [Jenny] Does it look cute?
- When we come back,
what is all this like
from the parents' point of view?
I was a news guy feeling my way
into a talk show format,
and therefore, I think
more than anything else,
my viewers liked the fact
that I was a good storyteller.
- Hey, everybody!
- Ricki, I was just tryIng
to experiment a little bit
with can you take this format
and turn it on its
head and do it younger?
- [Ricki] Tui, come on out.
(cheering)
- You know, Oprah, my daughter
dresses too sexy for school,
I don't think it's good for her.
We would do it the other
way around and say,
"My mom thinks I dress
too sexy for school,
"but if I don't dress that
way, I won't be popular."
- We were looking to bring about
that fresh point of view
that young people bring,
which we thought was
important and real.
- [Burt] Some were
imitating Oprah,
some were imitating Geraldo.
- When we came out--
(cheering)
Springer was supposed to be
the next Phil Donahue.
- Well, my passion in life
has always been more political.
For 10 years, I
was in city council
and then mayor of Cincinnati,
and then the NBC affiliate
in Cincinnati hired me
to anchor their news, and
I did that for 10 years.
We have to listen.
I didn't say we have to
agree, but we have to listen.
And that's what morphed
into this talk show.
Phil Donahue was
getting ready to retire,
so one day they
took me to lunch,
and said, "We're
starting a new talk show,
"you're gonna host it."
- In my eyes, Jerry was the guy.
He was so funny, light.
He just had every
attribute, to me,
that made for a
good talk show host.
Even the look. Everything.
(cheering)
- My first day there, and
I go up to see the show,
and I see him standing
off in the corner,
and he looks like a banker.
- A few years back,
country music singer--
- He had his hair slicked back,
he had these big,
stupid glasses on
like Larry King wears.
He had on a bad suit.
And I remember lookin'
over there and saying,
"That's not him."
- To clear the record, you had
not been drinking anything.
- No. I was pregnant.
- When I met him, he was
this great guy telling jokes,
and now all of a sudden
he's standing there
like in a coffin talking.
- I was assigned to it.
I had no particular
interest in it,
but I was an employee,
and that was my job.
First, Denise, tell us what
happened with your scheme.
- So I knew it wasn't gonna
work right off the bat,
because it wasn't him.
- I can't relate.
(laughter)
- The early shows,
there were topics
like grandparents
raising grandkids,
my prom memories.
Who's gonna watch this?
- [Jerry] Caroline, what
are we gonna see now?
- Start with our first
model, and our first model
in some evening wear is Madelyn.
- We weren't getting numbers.
We were playing three
o'clock in the morning.
- [Stylist] Notice how the
sleeves are just so nicely cut.
(applause)
- They said, "We are canceling
the show in November."
- We have a nice surprise
for you today, okay?
- "So just keep it on the air,
"and we're gonna get
something up and ready
"to replace Jerry."
Now we knew we were
gonna be fired.
So me and Jerry took a
walk around the block,
and the conversation we had was,
"We're out of a job in November.
"So if we're out of a
job, let's go nuts."
e)
(pensive music)
- If you just joined us, this
is our first show, and, uh--
when the show first started,
it was a normal talk show.
Gimme some examples, I mean--
it was boring, but it
was a normal talk show.
This is exactly what the
president of the United States
had said on television.
- Jerry's so smart.
It was sort of too smart.
- We started to realize
that even though
we're a daytime talk show,
nobody was airing
us in the daytime,
because we were that bad.
- Please stay with us.
(crickets chirp)
- [Richard] We knew we
were gonna be fired.
And we just decided
we're gonna change our show.
- We're 20 talk shows
around at a time,
everyone of us trying to
appeal to the demographic
which at that time
was referred to
as middle-aged housewives.
- Our show is airing at
two o'clock in the morning.
Who's watching TV?
College kids.
- Telling other
countries please don't--
and so we made the decision,
as a business model, let's
just try to go young.
(upbeat jazzy music)
(cheering)
Today's show is on a fad
that is basically sweeping the
country among young people,
body piercing.
Not crazy, just young.
- My boyfriend has
his nipple pierced
and his bellybutton pierced.
- Oh, please.
- It's (chuckles) sexy.
- And that meant
young people on stage,
young people in the audience,
young subject matter.
I can tell you here,
this hair is blue.
(laughter)
- I didn't want any experts.
- I've been seeing
somebody else.
(audience boos)
- Certainly didn't
want any celebrities.
- Go ahead, Glamorina,
you take over.
- I'm not what I seem to be.
- What are you?
Oh. (laughs)
(laughter and cheering)
- I told the producers,
I want the show
to be interesting
with the sound off.
In other words, I'm going
through the channels,
if I hit Sally,
I'm gonna see an expert talking.
If I hit Geraldo,
I'm gonna see him being Geraldo,
which is reason enough
to change it immediately.
You hit Jerry at any moment,
at any time, you're gonna stop.
(audience roars)
- Wait a second!
As you know young
people are much wilder,
and much more open
about their lifestyles,
and so the show every once
in a while went crazy.
- Expected to be fired.
But then as the ratings
started to go up,
then we started to say,
"Let's add nudity."
(cheering)
(lulling music)
- What're you doing?
- So we did, like, college girls
tell their mother
they're strippers.
(cheering)
We could go to hell.
- What's that spell?
- [Audience] Jerry!
- [Richard] It just
caught on so fast.
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- People took such a
liking to this man--
- I want you!
I want you!
(cheering)
- I used to always tell him
that he was Uncle Jerry,
that people liked having having
him in their living room.
- [Audience] Jerry,
Jerry, Jerry!
- They get that
I'm not judgemental
'cause I know I'm not
better than they are,
and I think they get that.
Do you wanna be with him?
It doesn't look like it.
- (beep) No!
(cheering)
- It was him being him,
which he wasn't allowed
to be in the beginning.
- When we come back,
questions from the audience!
- That's when it
started to take off.
(cheering)
- [Audience] Jerry,
Jerry, Jerry!
Jerry, Jerry!
- I'm very lucky.
I'm along for a ride
of a very popular show.
But I never fooled myself
to believing,
"Boy, I must be
something special."
'Cause I know full well I have
nothing to do with the show.
- Stand by 45--
- 45 to the shot.
- [Jerry] I don't produce it,
I'm not responsible for
how it's all put together--
- [Producer] Stand
by font over 47.
- The producers are
the ones that work.
- Light 'em up, let's go.
- Every day we were
putting on another show.
- [Producer] Out cue viewers.
- [Burt] And every
day, we had to fill
42 minutes of television.
- [Announcer] Jerry
Springer, right over there!
(cheering)
- But the reality
of sort of putting
together the show itself--
- [Crew] Five, four--
- [Laura] And the sort
of production process
behind the scenes--
- [Crewman] Five seconds.
- [Laura] It's not easy to do.
- Two, one,
and open!
- [Ricki] We're saying
bye bye to one of our--
- [Laura] Once producers
had a sense of topic,
the first step was
that they would plug
that topic on the air.
- [Announcer] Is more
than one woman claiming
you're the father of her baby?
- [Narrator] Are you
involved in a love triangle--
- So if you remember when
you used to watch talk shows,
there would always be this line,
"If you're having trouble
with your siblings--"
- Are your parents
cheating on each other?
- Do you know somebody who
slept with the babysitter,
and now wants to
say they're sorry?
- [Announcer] If
you want to tell her
there's no way you're
getting my gay lover's sperm,
call 1-800 GO RICKI.
(phone rings)
- And people would
actually call in.
(bustling music)
(murmuring)
(phone rings)
- We would have generally
about 1000 calls a day.
(phone rings)
- [Amy] We'd have interns
taking down their numbers.
Half of them would be fake.
- You were flirting
at your own wedding?
- But half would be real.
- [Operator] So you're having
sex with your girlfriend's
mother, is that correct?
- They had to be
good storytellers.
If they had a great story but
they were terrible talkers,
we couldn't put 'em on.
And then we would just say like,
"Mary and Steve are
definitely number one.
"They're the best talkers,
"the babysitter's
willing to come!"
That was like, "The
babysitter's willing to come?"
- So once a show is booked,
it's kind of just
the beginning really.
(thoughtful music)
Guests arrive, they go
through hair and makeup.
There'll be soundchecks.
- And then the producer who
was assigned to the show
would go in the
green room with them,
and start briefing them,
"Okay, let's go
through your story."
- I just want you here
to see how great you are.
- Not telling them what to
say, but it's very important
to talk the guest through it
because they're not experts.
- But use arms, you see
how I'm using my arms?
- So we would rehearse them.
- They remind guests
of why they're there.
They remind guests
of the injustice
that's been done to them.
- Why, why is he yours?
- He's mine, bitch.
- What do you love about him?
- He loves me.
- Producers tell the
guests, "This is your show.
"You're the star of the show."
(producers cross-talk)
Right, you've got
a studio, a stage,
you've got lights,
you've got cameras.
(applause)
You've got a live audience.
For guests, the television
part of it begins to recede.
- [Producer] Roll Z.
- And the theater part
of it begins to emerge.
- [Producer] Stand by 45--
- Thank you!
- I want you to take a
good look at these men.
- And we're back
with calender men
and the women who
fantasize about them.
- Today we're
gonna meet people--
- Here is Erin.
(cheering)
- In most cases, they've
never ever been on television,
they've never been on a stage,
never had to reveal their
life to anybody else.
And now all of a sudden,
they're on a stage where
the nation is watching.
Take us through that day.
Take us through the
process of doing
what most people is unthinkable.
- People'd always say to me,
"Why would people
come on your show?"
Well, take a guy, for instance.
He gets bitched at by his wife.
If he had a job, he gets
bitched at by the job.
Nobody's listening to him.
He gets here, and
we're listening to him.
- [Geraldo] Did you and
Jane fall out of love?
- Yes, it was more difficult
when the second baby came.
- The best guests are those
who pour out their stories.
- We fell in love right away.
- [Host] So, you
love this person.
- [Woman] I am totally
in love with him.
- [Host] Okay, your sister is
over there biting her hand.
- The more animated you are--
why did you bring him here?
- We hate this rug he wears.
- The better you're gonna
be received by an audience
and by a host.
If you wanna leave
it on like that--
(laughing)
- If you're a good
host, you listen.
(guest murmurs)
You smile but not
laugh or guffaw.
- Psychotic behavior of Jesus.
- [Sally] Part of
it is camera work,
you look into the
eye of the camera,
you lean forward into it.
- Eat his heart out.
- Why do you make
women call you daddy?
I was the conductor.
You know, I can
bring up the oboes,
and turn turn down the timpani.
If one set of guests
turned out to be a dud,
I could always go the audience.
Who can blow a bubble
for me the quickest?
And get something
out of the audience.
I got a bubble over here!
- I always saw the studio
audience as a prop.
- What the hell?
(audience shouting)
- [Joshua] To model a response
for the audience at home.
- [Audience] Jerry!
- And also to raise
the energy level.
- [Ricki] Didn't you
also flatten her tires
and bust out her window?
- Yes, I did, yes.
(audience screams)
(frantic circus music)
- Daytime talk was like the
highest high and the lowest low
because when a show worked,
there was nothing better.
I mean, it was like
the adrenalin running--
- He belongs to me!
- [Amy] The host is on fire.
- Not even close.
- The guests are fantastic--
- She's a pig.
(audience roars)
- The audience is loving it.
- Call me after the show.
(applause)
- When everything came
together on a show,
it was like magic.
- You need to get
this relationship,
'cause this thing's a
freak who'll leave you--
(roaring)
- Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
I mean, that is like
a gold mine, right?
(cross-talking)
- [Crew] And lose it.
Jerry, ready music,
ready title fly--
- Three, two--
- Ratings in television
is really the air
that you breathe.
- [Crewman] Light
'em up, let's do it.
- [Geraldo] If you
don't have ratings,
you don't have oxygen.
- Hold on one.
- Doesn't matter how
slickly produced you are.
People aren't watching,
they're not watching.
- [Hype Man] Will you
welcome Sally Jessy Raphael?
Right there!
- I paid attention to
ratings every single day
to make sure that we
were beating Jenny Jones,
we were beating whatever show
that might have been on the air.
(applause)
- There were so many talk shows,
and there's a finite
number of people
who are gonna view these shows
so they were basically
cannibalizing each
other's audiences.
- In the 90s, there
weren't that many outlets.
You know, all the cable
channels weren't there,
so you had to get maybe
five or six million people
just to stay alive.
- [Producer] Stand by 45--
- A lot of people say,
"Look, we'll give you
"the best show we
know how to do,
"and let the ratings
fall where they may."
No.
We had to win!
- All right, ladies
and gentlemen,
this is our main event.
- In order to win, we had
to beat the other guy.
- And in the corner,
Sally Jessy Raphael!
(cheering)
- And that's where, uh,
the shows got louder.
(simmering music)
(audience roaring)
- Everybody is sort of
competing for the same audience,
so you have to stand
out from the pack.
Well, somebody's
already broken his nose,
so we're gonna do
something better.
- Here they are, the club kids!
- [Anchor] A pioneer
in the genre concedes
talk show competition is
the fiercest he's ever seen.
- Well, you breathe harder,
you tap dance faster,
you hire outrageously
creative people.
If I wanted to show what
capitalism is to a communist,
I'd show him this.
(audience roars)
- [Producer] Stand
by font over 47.
- We certainly tried to
keep the quality good.
- [Referee] And Sally the
winner, we'll be right back!
- We certainly tried
to keep the dignity.
It certainly
slipped away from us
every once and a while.
(dramatic music)
- Is this gonna hurt?
When I got the fat removed
to be injected
into my forehead--
- [Joan] Oh!
- I got to drop trow--
(screams)
I was with Joan Rivers,
personified plastic
surgery at that time.
- Then you take the fat out,
and do you boil it,
or you just put it--
- [Surgeon] When we inject,
it should be very comfortable.
- So it had a little of
everything. (chuckles)
- [Surgeon] Here you go.
(Geraldo yelps)
Got it.
- Okay.
- We did, um, many shows
with women with large breasts.
(cheering)
- Look at you, you're
out of proportion.
Your boobs--
- Look at you!
- You're out of proportion!
- If you're in a race,
you want to win.
(cheering)
- You wanna see more?
You wanna see larger breasts?
(cheering)
- Morally, yes, that
got challenging.
- The guests on our program
are going to be nude!
(cheering)
- Because of the intense
competition for ratings,
you began to see the turn
to the more spectacular,
raucous, carnival-esque.
- Shows are exploitive,
you should stop it.
And the ratings are going up,
and the companies
are making money.
- I'm not really a woman.
- We did so many
transsexual shows.
(audience roars)
- The 800 pound guy Denny,
and he couldn't leave his house.
- So we literally
had to take down
the side of the house.
- Which was interesting.
- When you hear that
all the talk shows
are going for sensationalism,
then there's no alternative.
- [Jerry] My guests today
truly are unforgettable.
- Eventually, there's
no way around this,
you're gonna put
big busted women on.
You're gonna do the Klan.
(audience boos)
'Cause you know they rate,
and you're gonna do them.
- Go to hell.
- That's right!
(audience roars)
- We certainly did our share
of making a mistake
here and there,
maybe going too far.
(cheering)
We all did.
- [Man] Not to be discussed--
- [Producer] Roll 47,
track dissolve.
- [Anchorwoman] By
presenting sensational
and sleazy material,
talk shows have seen
a ratings increase,
but it has come with a price.
- It was very, very stressful.
Because the ratings
were so high,
you don't know who to please.
- [Anchorwoman] Viewers
flock to these freak shows
to hear about deviant topics.
(brooding music)
- You're working,
you're competing,
and you've got
yourself believing
that what you're doing is okay.
And I would say most of
the time it was okay.
- Bob, come on out and
join us, would you?
- Jenny Jones was known
for ambushing guests.
(cheering)
And this particular
ambush went awry.
- Now which of these
ways would you choose
to reveal your secret
crush on someone?
- In 1995, Jenny Jones did
what was pretty much
a standard issue
show topic at that
point in TV talk shows,
which was secret crush show.
- A, would you write
that person a letter?
B, would you tell
the person in private
in case he rejects you?
- She brought on a guy
named Scott Amedure.
- Or C, would you tell
that person that you're gay
and you hope he is on
national television
in front of millions--
(audience roars)
- And he came on the show--
- He's got a cute
little hard body.
- And expressed, you know,
kind of what he'd like to
do to Jonathan and so on.
- Tie him up in my hammock.
- All in sort of, I don't know,
by then, sort of
traditional good fun.
- Well, it entails, like,
whipped cream and champagne.
Stuff like that.
(audience shouting)
- She brought on
Jonathan Schmitz.
- John, come out here and
see who has the crush on him.
- Now when they told him that
he was booked on the show,
it could be a man or
it could be a woman,
but the guy was obviously
expecting a woman
to be his secret admirer.
- [Jenny] Did you think
Donna had the crush on you?
- No, we're good friends.
- [Jenny] Well, guess
what, it's Scott
that has the crush on you.
- You liked to me.
- And the straight man was
expecting someone else.
And afterwards, he said that
he'd been so humiliated.
- We'll show a little playback
of what Scott said about you.
- Well, it entails like
whipped cream and champagne.
Stuff like that.
- [Laura] It ate away at him.
- Two days later,
Jonathan Schmitz
went to Scott Amedure's house
and shot him at close
range and killed him.
(siren wails)
- [Reporter] Another
salacious subject
to titillate chat show junkies,
but this time, it
ended in disaster.
- My first reaction
was, "Oh my gosh,
"that could have
been any of us."
It could have been
any of our shows,
it just happened to be them.
- [Anchorwoman] Schmitz
and his supporters claimed
he'd been driven to
the murderous act
by an unscrupulous
talk show staff
which hid the fact it was
a same sex attraction.
(simmering music)
- In some cases, they are
taking people who are vulnerable
and exploiting them for
entertainment purposes.
And it is a volatile
thing to do,
but that's what the genre was.
- [Anchorman] Well, the
victim's family believe
the Jenny Jones show,
including the host herself,
bore some of the blame.
- We all regret what happened,
the fact is that this tragedy
is about the actions
of one individual.
- Jenny Jones probably
never met those guests
until she walked out on stage,
and nobody was trying
to get anybody killed.
- [Man] Simply to
provide a forum--
- There was a civil suit in
which the victim's family
sued the Jenny Jones Show
for their part in the murder.
- You understand
that relationship
between pumping up
ratings and demographics
to increase income,
isn't that true?
- That's not what I think
about when I'm taping the show.
I do not think about ratings.
- So a talk show was
literally on trial,
but the whole TV talk show
industry could be on trial
because what Jenny
Jones was doing
was what other shows
were also doing.
It led to a murder.
(police siren wails)
- The media started to say,
"Have talk shows gone too far?"
- Lot of talk tonight
about a talk show
and a huge verdict
against the producers.
It is raising questions
about whether shows
that exploit people's
personal lives
can be held responsible
for the consequences,
and in this case,
that was a murder.
(police siren wails)
- The Jenny Jones murder
was the turning point
for a lot of shows.
- [Achmorman] Schmitz say he
fatally shot Scott Amedure
after Schmitz was
ambushed and humiliated
on the daytime talk show.
- The Jenny Jones case kind
of pulled back the veil
on these shows and
the audience realized,
"Oh, wait, these people are
maybe being manipulated."
- You lied to me.
(laughter)
- The show was a
lighthearted show.
No one seemed upset
in that segment.
- [Reporter] The civil
trial now under way
as the Amedure family
sues the Jenny Jones Show
for 50 million dollars.
- Certainly what was
raised at this trial
were the ethics of producing
this kind of television.
- They claim that the
talk show is responsible
for Amedure's death because
they created the scenario
that led to the killing.
- The show was found liable
and fined 25 million dollars.
It was later overturned,
but still a lot of hosts
vowed to sort of tone down.
- We all backed
off a little bit.
We had to.
- [Producer] Stand by 45--
- Everybody changed their show
because they were terrified
to do anything that
would have something
like the Jenny
Jones murder happen.
Not us.
- Six.
Ready Jerry, ready--
(cautious, pensive music)
And ready.
- One--
- Stand by here we
go, and up on six, go!
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- Jerry Springer didn't
have that same underbelly
of deception.
- [Director] Cue
music when you cue applause,
ready title fly.
- And here is your
former best friend Kim.
- [Richard] We never surprised
anybody or shocked anybody.
- Your best friend is sleeping
with your 15-year-old son?
- Yeah.
- Guests always knew somethin's
comin' down the pike.
- How'd that ever happen?
- I don't know, but
the wretched bitch
is gonna get her
ass kicked today.
- But now it just
got so over the top,
it became almost a
cultural cartoon.
- [Friend] Slut!
- [Mom] Bitch you be--
(audience roars)
- Let's meet this,
uh, this son of yours.
(audience roars)
- We never sat in
a room and said,
"Hey, let's do fights."
It evolved.
- You're a liar.
- You're a bitch.
- [Liar] Bitch!
(audience roars)
- But when it evolved,
everybody was smart
enough to know,
"Okay, let's see
how we can do this."
- [Jerry] Are you
aware that your fiance
is sleeping with him?
- I'm very aware.
As a matter of fact, I was
in the closet watching.
(roaring audience)
- Jerry Springer took
the conflict version
of TV talk shows and
escalated it so far--
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- I will (beep) you up, Andrea.
- You wanna (beep) me up?
(audience roars)
- Humans are draw to
watching raw aggression.
(shouting)
And then let's be an audience
that unites around
that aggression.
(cheering)
Right? Jerry, Jerry.
- [Audience] Jerry,
Jerry, Jerry!
- We're all feeling
superior and protected,
and we're putting you up there.
We can watch you
destroy yourself.
-[Guest] Bitch!
(audience roars)
- The Springer Show
had fights every day.
But people always used
to ask me, "Is it fake?"
You know, I've had two
major back surgeries,
a concussion,
so those fights weren't fake.
- We had seen people
get in fights before
on these shows, obviously,
but Jerry Springer took
it to the next level
of a kind of cartoon violence.
People watched it the
way they watch wrestling.
(cheering)
- [Guest] Bitch!
(roaring)
- It's not your
traditional talk show.
And it's not exactly
a sporting event.
And it's not exactly theater.
So it's a circus.
- Hey, I got somethin'
for your honeymoon, bitch.
I got a good tape of
me (beep) your lady.
(screaming)
(static hisses)
- It just exploded.
- Today's topic is
"My father is evil,
"and he wants to
take over the world."
(booing)
- What?
Scott,
daddy's back.
- [Interviewer] Jerry,
good to see you again.
- Nice seeing you.
- Jerry, up until a
year and a half ago,
you were not a household name.
- Suddenly, we were everywhere.
- [Announcer] MTV is pleased
to present Springer Break!
- It seemed like
every other week,
we were doing
skits for Jay Leno,
or David Letterman.
- Here's Jerry Springer.
(applause)
- The Jerry Springer show was
everywhere in pop culture.
- How'd it feel to learn
your baby was fathered
by a drooling space octopus?
- It made me angry, Jerry.
- You saw it on the X-Files,
you saw it on Roseanne,
and it stood in for
"Here's something so crazy
"that you'd only believe it
"if it was a Jerry
Springer Show episode."
- The Springer Show
became a phenomenon.
- In 1998,
It just became
this incredible force.
(cheering)
And all of a sudden,
we were beating Oprah.
(ambient music)
- [Reporter] Springer
recently became
the first talk show host ever
to knock Oprah
Winfrey off her throne
as the queen of daytime talk.
- Which, you know,
caused TV to be outraged.
- Oprah Winfrey told the
Sunday Times of London
that Springer's show is a,
quote, vulgarity circus.
- [Audience] Jerry!
- Jerry Springer was
like the pure, pure form
of conflict-based talk shows,
and it was clear to people
that this version of the genre
was now what viewers
wanted to watch.
- Now Oprah's saying she may
quit her show because of you.
- When Springer eclipsed
Oprah in the ratings,
that was a real defining moment
that would change
the genre yet again.
- [Announcer] Jerry Springer,
television that packs a punch
on screen and in the ratings.
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- The first time we beat
Oprah in the ratings,
went into the
office the next day,
and everyone's
screaming and yelling.
Because it's a business, and
it's a competitive business,
so you feel like, wow,
something really happened.
- [Reporter] Jerry Springer,
America's hottest day
time talk show host.
- And we were on the
top of the ratings
57, 58 weeks in a row.
- I think the Springer
Show was so successful
'cause it was just
pure craziness,
you never know what
somebody was gonna say,
love triangles, fighting.
(shouting)
And most shows, let's face it,
they think they're above that.
Well, guess what?
What you're too good for--
(roaring)
Most people are tuning
in and watching.
- Are you in fact
sleeping with Leo?
- Yes, I am.
(audience roars)
- Now in order to compete,
talk shows had to be
bolder and brasher
and more conflict-based.
- What would you like
to say to your mother?
- I'm sorry!
- To the point where
it was cartoonish.
- I told you!
I told you!
- Now we (beep)--
- At that time, Universal
bought Maury Povich.
- [Girl] Because I hate him.
- Maury really
understood the business.
The audience that
wanted this was there.
- She's trembling right now
because Yvonne is deathly
afraid of balloons.
(balloons pop)
(shrieks)
- But Maury, I think,
took it to the next level.
- [Maury] Oh, now don't go
back there, that's worse!
(shrieks)
- When Maury Povich came along,
it was really hard to
find something new to do
on these shows that was
gonna surprise people,
but he hit on exactly the
right thing, and it was gold.
- Should we find out right now?
- [Audience] Yes.
- Maury decided to
do paternity tests!
- Candice says it's yours.
You say you don't think so.
If you are the
father, they applaud.
If you're not the
father, they explode.
You are not the father.
- Yeah!
(audience roars)
(bleep)
Yeah! Yeah!
Yeah!
- [Amy] A lot of people did
think some of the subjects
were exploitive.
(shouting)
- [Woman] Get back! (sobs)
- But we have to
feed your audience.
(crowd roars)
The audience that
wanted this was there.
We gave them what they wanted.
- I mean, if you
saw a show today
that said, "I married a horse--"
(roaring)
Would you watch it?
I know I would.
(shouting)
- This is so sick, I don't
even know how to deal with it.
(dramatic, worrying music)
The show was so crazy.
It's perfect fodder
for any critic.
(applause)
- Constant controversy
over content
has put talk shows
under the microscope,
and the most sensational
programs under real attack.
- In the late 90s,
partly in response to the
success of Jerry Springer,
there was quite a bit
of political backlash.
- Former Republican education
secretary William Bennett
teamed up with Democratic
senators Sam Nunn
and Joseph Lieberman
to send talk show hosts
a message to get them
to clean up their act.
- Most of these shows
are really aimed
at using shock and
social dysfunction,
sexual dysfunction, perversion,
immorality as a
way to make money.
- They called these
talk shows cultural rot.
- [Anchorwoman] Cultural rot.
- Shows are disgusting,
they're depraved,
and they're obsessed with sex.
- So vile, so vulgar.
- They would make the claim
that we are destroying America.
- Divorce and separation rates--
- The erosion of
our own society.
- How can the Jerry Springer--
I mean, the Jerry Springer
Show's gonna destroy America?
- If you watch any TV show,
there's tons of violence,
there's tons of sex.
So you ant to get on your horse
about the Jerry Springer Show?
- Isn't good for the country,
this isn't good for the culture.
- You know, people are
comfortable as long
as the people on television
are upper middle class white,
or famous, or good looking.
Now all of a sudden,
our show comes along,
and they're seeing people
they have never seen
on television before.
- The fact that people are
screaming at each other,
domestic abuse--
these shows are a
part of the problem.
- Television is a mirror.
If you don't like
what you're seeing,
don't blame the mirror.
- After a while, we
became the poison
even though we
were the big show.
Shows have said, "We are not
gonna be the Springer Show."
But I think Springer made
such a mark in that genre,
that when it was
back to Phil Donahue,
because they'd been watching
this explosion every day,
well, then people
were now bored.
So everybody started dropping.
And I think talk didn't
know where to go,
and I don't think
executives knew where to go.
It was a confusing time,
and I think it was basically
becoming the end of talk show.
- Jerry Springer, do
you get the message?
Are you ready to
clean up your act?
- Well, I think it's a little
bit hypocritical for us
to get speeches about
morality, and ethics,
and cleaning up the act
out of Washington, DC.
(shouting)
- [Richard] We got torn
apart in the press.
- This kind of trash television
has to go and will
not be tolerated.
- We got picked by TV Guide
as the worst TV show ever.
But there was a sense
of we're still standing,
and the shows are
starting to drop.
- Thanks for
watching, everybody.
We'll see you next
time, bye bye.
- And particularly
after they started going
really low brow,
I just couldn't stand
the ridicule anymore.
- People wanted to see
pulling hair and punchin',
but other shows said,
"We are not gonna be
the Springer Show."
- [Announcer] Sally
Jessy Raphael!
- Then like Sally went
off after a while, right?
She was done with the
confrontational shows.
- So then it became, "Oh,
we gotta do this again."
(shouting)
Oh, what are we gonna do? How
are we gonna make it better?
(shouting)
It just got old after a while.
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- This is like anything else.
When something's
on for a long time,
it's not as special anymore.
People get used to things.
- Thank you for watching.
See ya next time.
- We went off the air
because we had done
every topic we wanted to
do at least six times.
- [Sergeant] Okay!
- Everybody had seen bootcamp.
- Push 'em!
- Everybody had seen lying.
Nothing was like
"Oh my God" anymore.
- [Producer] Five,
four.
(applause)
- Talk didn't know where to go.
- But one of the
particular positive things
that talk shows demonstrated
was that you could
make decent money
from ordinary people's
experiences being on screen.
And you didn't
have to pay actors
to create entertainment.
That made it possible
for people to think
about other ways to do that.
(curious music)
Let's do that by putting
10 different types
of people in a house.
- Just walk around.
- This is where we live?
- You know, let's
send a bunch of people
who hate each other
on a road trip.
(bleeping)
(cross-talking)
- Don't you fight!
- Don't ruin it!
- Don't ruin it!
- Don't you fight!
- So the spontaneous
reality of the daytime show
led to a kind of a
blending of a scripted show
and an unscripted show,
became known as a reality show.
- TV show producers basically
took what was on set,
and shifted it into
people's homes.
- You've disrespected me,
you've disrespected me!
- No.
- Bring it, bitch.
- But the same kind
of stuff is going on.
You know, you've got nudists.
- The guests on our
program are nude!
- It felt awkward sitting
next to a naked gay man.
- You've got people fighting.
(indecipherable shouting)
- Look at some of these shows,
they could be Jerry
Springer episodes.
(bleep)
(crashing)
They just have that layer
of the host stripped away.
- Leave her alone.
- Get off me.
- I can't take this.
(curious tonal music)
- Problem is, reality
TV is not reality.
- [Bachelor] Will you marry me?
(chuckles)
- Talk shows are.
The people that come
on our show are real.
Okay, let's get started.
Here is Carla.
And they are bringing what is
really happening in their life
onto the stage.
- Go ahead, keep talking, go.
- It wasn't created
for television,
it existed before they
ever got to the studio.
What we call reality
television is not real
because you're taking
people and putting them
in a fake situation.
You're putting
them on an island,
you're putting them in a house.
- All of youse in this house,
I want you all to know
that I can't stand any of you!
- With reality television,
you see the importance placed
on the concept of
performance itself.
- What is wrong with you?
Stop it!
I have never in my life
yelled at a girl like this!
- There's a value to that.
It's sort of its
own form of capital.
- [Donald] New York City, it's
the benchmark for success.
Believe me, I know.
- Among the primetime programs
was Celebrity Apprentice.
There was Donald
Trump the impresario.
Watch him as the ringmaster.
- Welcome to your
first boardroom.
- He's performing
being a strong person,
he's performing being, you
know, a business tycoon.
- You see why Trump is Trump.
- There's a real skill in
playing yourself on television.
You know, Donald Trump
played a character
of Donald Trump
on the Apprentice,
and that's how the
world knows him.
- We will make
America great again.
(cheering)
- Now we have a
commander in chief
who's performing
being a president.
- No collusion, no obstruction.
- With Donald Trump
as the 45th president,
every day is a reality show.
- See any evidence
of any wire-tapping.
- So not only did
we ruin talk shows--
- I do get good ratings,
you have to admit that.
(static hisses)
We are also responsible
for creating reality TV
which then ruined television,
and (stammers) then the country.
(piano music)
- We learned a lot from
tabloid television.
Of course people were exploited
for entertainment
value and ratings.
However, looking back on it,
you have to admit that
there were good things
that came out of it.
There actually was value
in disenfranchised people
being put in our living room.
- You saw all different races,
all different lifestyles,
all different sexual identity.
- We saw gay people,
transgender people.
For the first time,
in many cases.
- [Laura] Jerry Springer
gave trans folks a voice.
- I've never felt like a male,
I don't look like a male.
- Was it a terribly
dignified voice?
No, of course not.
But it was a voice.
(pensive music)
- People on the
fringes of society
learned that they
were not alone.
- These are all women.
We are very special
women, but we are women.
We're not hurting anybody,
we just ask for respect.
- I think talk
shows moved culture
in some really interesting ways,
because the strategy
was to bring on people
that were considered deviant,
but one of the
things that happened,
I guess ironically,
over time is that
through constant talking
about it and showing it,
it becomes less deviant.
- Familiarity sometimes
breeds compassion.
- I love her for who
she is not what she is.
(clapping)
- And it moved the needle
as far as tolerance.
(cheering)
(inspiring music)
- Television started out
as a personality medium,
it remains a personality medium.
You've got Wendy Williams,
you've got Dr. Phil.
- You have Ellen,
you have gossip shows,
the View, the Chew.
- Six years!
(shouting)
Six years!
- You guys--
- Hey, Jerry.
- [Jerry] Hi.
- The Springer Show
still doing fine,
they're still on the air.
- This is some best
friend you have.
- [Burt] As well
as Maury Povich.
- Talk shows systematically
opened up a space
for ordinary people to
participate on television.
- It's disgusting.
(laughter)
- But that was
only the beginning.
- Hey, what's
goin' on, SnapChat?
- SnapChat does it now,
Facebook does it now,
YouTube does it now.
- 'Cause this is
personal, super personal.
It's something I
always kept a secret.
- They're using their phones,
they're using tablets,
they're using all kinds
of internet connections.
- Everybody wants to
have their voice heard.
Everybody wants to
tell their story.
- We are social beings,
human beings like to talk
about what's going
on in their lives.
That will never change.
- [Producer] And lose it.
(pensive piano music)
- Well, today's final thought is
may you never be on my show.
Take care of yourself
and each other.
- Talk shows have
really been perceived
as the kind of freak
show of American society.
- These shows are
disgusting, they're depraved.
- They called these
talk shows cultural rot.
- [Woman] Cultural rot.
- These shows and are
part of what's wrong
in our society today.
(shouting)
- There is nothing on our show
that isn't already in the bible,
that isn't already
in Shakespeare,
that isn't already
in great literature.
But we had never seen
it on television before.
- You belong to me!
(murmuring)
(bustling music)
- Suddenly we were
seeing real people
be authentically
themselves on television.
- I've never felt like a male,
I don't look like a male--
- Americans hadn't seen
people open up like this.
- It is your fault.
- And this was real.
- Who did you leave him for?
- A woman.
(shouting)
- Gave this country a chance
to really look at itself,
sort of shined a mirror back.
- Welcome to the program!
- You had Geraldo, you
had Sally Jessy, Donahue--
- Watch this!
- [Maury] Jenny Jones,
you had Jerry Springer.
- Here's Dana!
-[Guest] Bitch!
- If you're in a
race, you want to win,
and that's where
the crazy started.
- [Maury] You are not--
(screaming)
- I really do think
that daytime talk shows
were the dawn of
reality television.
(ambient tuning music)
- That's a gay relationship.
You weren't dressing
at the time, were you?
- I always looked like a girl
since I was one year old.
- One of the claims
to fame, obviously,
of daytime talk shows,
the way in which they've
innovated television,
is that they put
ordinary people on TV.
It is the focus of the genre.
Ordinary people on television
telling their personal stories.
- [Woman] Everyone knew him--
- These stories are real.
It's not fake.
Fake doesn't work with an
American television audience.
(static hisses)
- [Laura] But let's not forget
this wasn't always the case.
- Cock-a-doodle-doo.
(laughter)
(chuckles)
- Holy hole in a donut!
(laughs)
(guns fire)
- Back then, television was
a different kind of medium.
(laughter)
There was nothing gripping,
there was nothing
at stake, really.
- Steven, well, why did
you come here today?
- Soap operas were so popular,
but there was always
the sense of fakeness.
- Because I wanted to look
into your eyes, that's why.
- [Host] Here they are!
- [Drew] I suppose ordinary
people were on game shows.
- [Host] Hello, Yvonne.
- There really was not
much real life happening
to somebody on game shows.
- All right.
- Talk to us about it.
- Of course, there were
talk shows,
but maybe more often than not,
interviewed professional
experts or celebrities.
(laughter)
- [Announcer] The
password is professor.
- That was a wildly
different era
than it is these days.
(goofy music)
(static hisses)
- And then came Donahue.
(swinging music)
He, I think, first
aired in 1967.
- Hi, Jane Fonda, thank you.
Recognize Jane Fonda--
- He was doing the
show in Dayton,
and he was doing
a local talk show.
- [Guest] First time
I played golf, I was--
- Celebrities would come in--
(laughter)
authors would come in.
- In the early days of Donahue,
he had a similar type
of interview style
as the rest of them.
Phil Donahue would
soon become the pioneer
of the genre in many ways.
- Television was sitting on
the edge of a powerful shift,
one that would actually
transform pop culture.
- The Donahue Show was
about to be groundbreaking.
(cheering)
And per usual--
(static hisses)
It was an accident.
- On this program is
Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
Mrs. O'Hair is probably the
world's most famous atheist.
- [Guest] What do you
have a against God?
- Uh, first--
- Why does he bug you?
- He was doing
the show as usual.
- Phil said that he was
lost on one show before.
- [Phil] I didn't
say I was lost.
- You said--
- I did not!
- And by accident, as these
things always happen--
- We'll be back
in just a moment.
Back in a moment.
- During the commercial breaks
to keep the audience
entertained,
he would let the audience
ask a guest a question.
- Have you ever
been tempted to pray
but didn't because
you are an atheist?
- Never.
- And then somebody
said, "Wait a minute.
"That's interesting."
- [Man] Are you Jewish?
- No, I'm not.
- [Man] Are you saved or lost?
- Well, I think I'm saved--
- That's not relevant!
- It is to me when he's asking--
- No, you have to
answer his question.
- This was just as
interesting a lot of times
as the show itself,
so somebody very smart
said, "Wait a minute, why don't
we put that on television?
"Let's take what we're
doing in the commercial
"and let the audience in."
(collegiate orchestrated music)
- [Phil] Yes, you
had a question.
- Jamie. We're
from Pennsylvania.
- Hi, hi, Jamie.
Where are you from?
- I'm from Dayton.
- I used to work here at TV2.
- And your name is?
- [Audience Man] Terry Wilson.
- He was the first person
to bring the audience
into the show.
- I just wanted to know when
you wrote your first song,
how old you were.
- Well, I was 13 years old--
- Let alone allowing
regular folk
to ask a celebrity a question.
You never saw it.
- Have you ever considered
doing a centerfold?
- Have I?
(laughter)
- [Phil] We're
back here on the--
- Donahue really
innovated the genre.
He got rid of sitting
behind a desk.
- Yes, ma'am. What's the matter?
And on the eighth
day, the host shut up.
Don't worry about
saying something stupid.
I hold the record,
you can't top me.
- He was one of the
first people to talk
about different
kinds of sexuality,
and marriage.
- I don't want to say
this, we have two families
who have divorced, and some
of whom have remarried,
but they all live in
the same community.
- Okay, now, what
do we have here?
- Obviously, the format was
really, really working well.
- It's excellent, I think.
- So it occurred to me one day--
- We'll be back
in just a minute.
- Why isn't a woman
doing a show like this?
- Daytime television in general
was sort of considered
women's terrain.
- My body, it was my decision.
- Do you feel the need
to have your own child?
- The woman's gotta have a
different way of looking at this
than the way
Donahue's looking it.
And we made a development deal
for me to develop a
show and find somebody.
(pensive orchestrated music)
- The idea of being
the first woman host
was not so much
radical as unpopular.
Men then and now
control the media,
and a woman really should
just stay in her place,
and they can't get ratings,
so, you know, we don't need 'em.
- Yeah, it was, you know,
it was a man's world.
But that didn't stop us.
(upbeat easy listening music)
(applause)
- In case you're
just joining us,
we're talking today
about something
that's really fascinating.
Donahue was doing more
philosophical topics.
We've been talking about
people who are obsessive
and compulsive, and
Mike says that's him.
I started my show by
doing human topics.
Being anorexic
and being bulimic,
they're not the same thing.
- Anorexia and bulimia
are very different.
- Being gay.
What was it like when you
told your mother, Tony?
- She kept denying
it, she kept saying,
"No you're not, no you're not."
- [Sally] Being a bad child.
- It's just one of
those things that
I reacted out of frustration.
- Being an outsider.
You don't have a pronoun.
You would prefer me
not to use he or she.
- I like being who I am.
Why should I try
to be anybody else?
- Sally brought a kind
of intimacy to the show
that was missing from the
more issue-oriented shows
that Phil Donahue was doing.
- People are probably
asking why are we talking
about this today.
One of the reasons
is, of course,
that the purpose of what
we try to do here every day
is understanding.
I wanted to communicate
that almost everyone
is pretty much the same,
and that things that
you're going through--
- I didn't know what
was wrong with me,
I still didn't know
anything about OCD,
I didn't know what it was.
- Someone else has gone through.
- You had a certain idea
of what a drug addict was,
what an alcoholic was.
- Most of the time,
we were wrong.
We brought it out and showed
these were real people
with real problems,
so you were learning.
- Have you survived as
a woman with four kids
and just a part time income?
I mean, it must be tough.
- Sally Jessy drew audiences in
and sort of helped paved the way
for women to begin
hosting talk shows.
- We'll be right back.
(cheering)
- Then Oprah came on
the scene and perfected
the whole therapeutic turn.
I think for the primarily
female audience,
it was important to
have female hosts.
- Do you mind if
I give you a hug?
- The audience began
to trust Sally.
(applause)
I remember thinking, "Wow.
"Here we go."
(cheering)
- Donahue and Sally became stars
emphasizing the
things they do best.
Issues delivered in a way
that people could relate to.
With me, it was
more people watched
wondering when the
bomb was gonna go off.
(funky music)
- Geraldo had come
into daytime talk
from investigative reporting.
- You get that?
- Yup.
- [Laura] So had this
more sort of masculine,
muck-raking sort of persona.
- Whoa, whoa!
- You know you just sold a kilo
of cocaine to Geraldo Rivera?
(hard-hitting music)
(cheering)
- Geraldo's a bit
a (beep) stirrer,
but in a way, that was his job.
- Maria, our next guest, now 19,
has been in and out of the gang
for all of her teenage years.
Criminal?
- Yeah, I'm from
Compton, 155 Street.
- Inside look into the
world of women bodybuilder.
It had a little of everything
(chuckles) for everybody.
From gang bangers,
or hate mongers.
- [Laura] He was also, I think,
more politically oriented.
- Thank you.
- So I remember a
show where he invited
white supremacist guests
and a black activist guest
on stage.
- Meet John Metzger of the
White Aryan Resistance Youth.
- So our idea was to bring
Roy Ennis from CORE--
he's the chairman of the
Congress of Racial Equality.
These non-racist skinheads,
and these skinheads
in one place,
and see what happened.
Do you not believe, sir,
that Adolf Hitler and
the Nazis were heroes?
- Yeah.
- I really hated them,
they really hated Roy,
they really hated me.
- You're beating
around the bush, Gerry.
- Started with a
lot of, you know,
"Go ahead, go ahead."
Don't push me too hard.
- Oh, come on.
- These guys are
immature clowns.
- And everyone knew that
this whole combustible mix
was going to be
brewed on television.
The Holocaust, did
it happen, Bob Hike?
- Does it matter?
- [Geraldo] Does it matter?
- Geraldo, he always got
himself in the thick of things.
- If you have true belief
in your convictions,
why are you afraid to
let other people speak?
- Because I get sick
and tired of hearing
the sob stories from (beep).
I get sick and tired of
seeing Uncle Tom here
trying to be a white man.
- Go ahead, Roy, go ahead.
It really was putting a
flame and gasoline together.
- You gotta be kiddin',
you gotta be kiddin'.
You gotta be kiddin'.
- I didn't know quite how
it was going to explode.
- [Roy] Hey, hold it!
Hold it!
- Sit down!
(shouting)
(dramatic music)
- Chairs were flying.
(shouting)
Punches were thrown.
- For a street fight to
last a minute and a half--
(shouting)
It's like a war!
(shouting)
If you look at the
video, you see the chair
clearly come sailing
from screen left,
hit me in the face.
- Geraldo broke his nose.
(shouting)
There was a lot of blood.
- All right, sit down!
- I mean, this was
evidence of the real issue,
the emotion, the
intensity, the importance.
- When Geraldo got in
the middle of that fight,
that's the first time we
had seen anything like that
in daytime television.
(siren wails)
- [Laura] It was a
real defining moment
in the genre's history.
It was like the canary
in the coal mine.
It was the harbinger
of things to come.
- The skinhead brawl
was taped around four
o'clock in the afternoon.
It strikes me that
some of of our audience
(chuckles) may be
fairly traumatized.
- This is my first new
day in New York, and--
(laughter)
- [Geraldo] By 6:30,
it was on all the network
national news programs
- Geraldo Rivera is back
in a controversy tonight
because of television.
- After things got out of
hand at a taping session
for his syndicated program.
- [Burt] It was the
lead story that night.
- [Anchorwoman] Group of
avowed white racists who--
- And it was a
daytime talk show.
(speaking in French)
- [John] The sob stories from--
- So even as they
were deploring,
"Look at this, look at
this, isn't this awful?"
- [Tom Brokaw] Guests had
included civil rights
activist Roy Ennis--
- Now let's watch it
again in slow motion.
- [Tom Brokaw] Today he found
himself in a real free for all.
- That realness was
something we all craved.
- [Anchorman] And a group
of avowed white racists
who couldn't resist
name-calling.
- There's fighting on stage.
And that was the first
incarnation of all that.
(speaking in foreign language)
- [Anchorwoman] Rivera
was bloodied but unbowed.
After paramedics patched him up,
the taping session continued.
(shouting)
(pensive music)
- As a result,
it boosted us into the first
rung in terms of ratings.
(cheering)
Thank you!
And then that year,
I was on the cover of Newsweek,
and the headline was "Trash TV."
It was my picture
with my broken nose,
and I became thes
symbol of trash TV.
I think that it was
really a seminal moment.
- This trash TV condemnation
was a real defining moment
in the genre's history
because it sort of
opened up the floodgates.
(audience cheering)
- I think when you talk
about Morton Downey,
you talk about somebody who
was in a class all by himself.
- What an ugly audience!
(concerning music)
Or get the hell out of here!
- He pretty much
deliberately just rejected
sort of civility and decorum.
- I don't apologize
for anything!
- [Laura] In favor of a much
more confrontational way
of hosting a show.
- She is not a slut.
You are!
- He incorporated the audience.
He incorporated them as more
of a lynch mob. (chuckles)
(cheering)
Morton tells you
who the villain is--
- Dictionary says, "Paparazzi,
"an annoying and pesky insect."
- It's my job.
- He insults them--
- Are you an annoying insect?
- And the audience
starts to slobber.
- They are parasites!
They're all parasites!
- How do you not watch that?
- Morton Downey
Junior helped to feed
this trash TV shift.
- It's not just
violence on television,
it's trash in the eyes of many.
- [Burt] Trash TV
became the term.
- Everybody--
- Like fake news.
- Get ready for a
righteous butt-whipping.
- It made people watch them.
(audience roars)
- A person can
only take so much.
- Viewers want to
watch because they can
either relate to what
they're going through--
- It's not my fault
you lost your son.
(cross-talking)
- Or they can say, "Thank God
I'm not going through this."
- [Blonde Man] You're a
lying piece of (beep)!
(audience roars)
- And there's kind
of a discovery.
Producers saw TV talk shows
as an inexpensive
genre to produce
because you're
not paying actors,
and it's not scripted,
you're not paying writers.
That makes it easier
to make a buck.
- Stick with us, we'll be right
back ladies and gentelman.
- And in the early 1990s,
there were a lot of
people who wanted
to get in on that action.
And the safest
approach is to imitate
what has worked for others.
- Is it possible that miracles--
- [Joshua] From Leeza Gibbons
to Carnie Wilson.
- [Laura] Here's where
you get Ortise Berry,
Maury Povich--
- Who finds this
impossible to believe?
Joan Rovers was there.
(laughter)
- Montel came around,
and Jenny Jones.
- And so you really
had what producers
characterized as
the talk show boom.
- At one point,
I would say there were 15
to 20 talk shows on the air.
- So the competition meant
how are we gonna
distinguish ourselves?
And you're gonna look
at what succeeded
and try to do that in a way
that has a little
bit of a twist to it.
- What it was like to be
picked on, sometimes--
- What people tried to do
was brand around the host.
- Why do you hate?
- So Montel was the
ex-military guy, tough love.
- I've asked this question
over and over again,
and none of you
have answered it.
(cheering)
- We believe in justice here
on the Richard Bay show.
- We had fights with pies.
You know, we had the
wheel of torture,
which was a way of
expiating your anger
against somebody else.
- You got boys goin' crazy
when you dress like this?
- Jenny Jones did a
lot of makeover shows,
kind of the softer friend role.
- [Jenny] So mom,
what do you say?
- [Selma] I love it!
- [Jenny] Does it look cute?
- When we come back,
what is all this like
from the parents' point of view?
I was a news guy feeling my way
into a talk show format,
and therefore, I think
more than anything else,
my viewers liked the fact
that I was a good storyteller.
- Hey, everybody!
- Ricki, I was just tryIng
to experiment a little bit
with can you take this format
and turn it on its
head and do it younger?
- [Ricki] Tui, come on out.
(cheering)
- You know, Oprah, my daughter
dresses too sexy for school,
I don't think it's good for her.
We would do it the other
way around and say,
"My mom thinks I dress
too sexy for school,
"but if I don't dress that
way, I won't be popular."
- We were looking to bring about
that fresh point of view
that young people bring,
which we thought was
important and real.
- [Burt] Some were
imitating Oprah,
some were imitating Geraldo.
- When we came out--
(cheering)
Springer was supposed to be
the next Phil Donahue.
- Well, my passion in life
has always been more political.
For 10 years, I
was in city council
and then mayor of Cincinnati,
and then the NBC affiliate
in Cincinnati hired me
to anchor their news, and
I did that for 10 years.
We have to listen.
I didn't say we have to
agree, but we have to listen.
And that's what morphed
into this talk show.
Phil Donahue was
getting ready to retire,
so one day they
took me to lunch,
and said, "We're
starting a new talk show,
"you're gonna host it."
- In my eyes, Jerry was the guy.
He was so funny, light.
He just had every
attribute, to me,
that made for a
good talk show host.
Even the look. Everything.
(cheering)
- My first day there, and
I go up to see the show,
and I see him standing
off in the corner,
and he looks like a banker.
- A few years back,
country music singer--
- He had his hair slicked back,
he had these big,
stupid glasses on
like Larry King wears.
He had on a bad suit.
And I remember lookin'
over there and saying,
"That's not him."
- To clear the record, you had
not been drinking anything.
- No. I was pregnant.
- When I met him, he was
this great guy telling jokes,
and now all of a sudden
he's standing there
like in a coffin talking.
- I was assigned to it.
I had no particular
interest in it,
but I was an employee,
and that was my job.
First, Denise, tell us what
happened with your scheme.
- So I knew it wasn't gonna
work right off the bat,
because it wasn't him.
- I can't relate.
(laughter)
- The early shows,
there were topics
like grandparents
raising grandkids,
my prom memories.
Who's gonna watch this?
- [Jerry] Caroline, what
are we gonna see now?
- Start with our first
model, and our first model
in some evening wear is Madelyn.
- We weren't getting numbers.
We were playing three
o'clock in the morning.
- [Stylist] Notice how the
sleeves are just so nicely cut.
(applause)
- They said, "We are canceling
the show in November."
- We have a nice surprise
for you today, okay?
- "So just keep it on the air,
"and we're gonna get
something up and ready
"to replace Jerry."
Now we knew we were
gonna be fired.
So me and Jerry took a
walk around the block,
and the conversation we had was,
"We're out of a job in November.
"So if we're out of a
job, let's go nuts."
e)
(pensive music)
- If you just joined us, this
is our first show, and, uh--
when the show first started,
it was a normal talk show.
Gimme some examples, I mean--
it was boring, but it
was a normal talk show.
This is exactly what the
president of the United States
had said on television.
- Jerry's so smart.
It was sort of too smart.
- We started to realize
that even though
we're a daytime talk show,
nobody was airing
us in the daytime,
because we were that bad.
- Please stay with us.
(crickets chirp)
- [Richard] We knew we
were gonna be fired.
And we just decided
we're gonna change our show.
- We're 20 talk shows
around at a time,
everyone of us trying to
appeal to the demographic
which at that time
was referred to
as middle-aged housewives.
- Our show is airing at
two o'clock in the morning.
Who's watching TV?
College kids.
- Telling other
countries please don't--
and so we made the decision,
as a business model, let's
just try to go young.
(upbeat jazzy music)
(cheering)
Today's show is on a fad
that is basically sweeping the
country among young people,
body piercing.
Not crazy, just young.
- My boyfriend has
his nipple pierced
and his bellybutton pierced.
- Oh, please.
- It's (chuckles) sexy.
- And that meant
young people on stage,
young people in the audience,
young subject matter.
I can tell you here,
this hair is blue.
(laughter)
- I didn't want any experts.
- I've been seeing
somebody else.
(audience boos)
- Certainly didn't
want any celebrities.
- Go ahead, Glamorina,
you take over.
- I'm not what I seem to be.
- What are you?
Oh. (laughs)
(laughter and cheering)
- I told the producers,
I want the show
to be interesting
with the sound off.
In other words, I'm going
through the channels,
if I hit Sally,
I'm gonna see an expert talking.
If I hit Geraldo,
I'm gonna see him being Geraldo,
which is reason enough
to change it immediately.
You hit Jerry at any moment,
at any time, you're gonna stop.
(audience roars)
- Wait a second!
As you know young
people are much wilder,
and much more open
about their lifestyles,
and so the show every once
in a while went crazy.
- Expected to be fired.
But then as the ratings
started to go up,
then we started to say,
"Let's add nudity."
(cheering)
(lulling music)
- What're you doing?
- So we did, like, college girls
tell their mother
they're strippers.
(cheering)
We could go to hell.
- What's that spell?
- [Audience] Jerry!
- [Richard] It just
caught on so fast.
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- People took such a
liking to this man--
- I want you!
I want you!
(cheering)
- I used to always tell him
that he was Uncle Jerry,
that people liked having having
him in their living room.
- [Audience] Jerry,
Jerry, Jerry!
- They get that
I'm not judgemental
'cause I know I'm not
better than they are,
and I think they get that.
Do you wanna be with him?
It doesn't look like it.
- (beep) No!
(cheering)
- It was him being him,
which he wasn't allowed
to be in the beginning.
- When we come back,
questions from the audience!
- That's when it
started to take off.
(cheering)
- [Audience] Jerry,
Jerry, Jerry!
Jerry, Jerry!
- I'm very lucky.
I'm along for a ride
of a very popular show.
But I never fooled myself
to believing,
"Boy, I must be
something special."
'Cause I know full well I have
nothing to do with the show.
- Stand by 45--
- 45 to the shot.
- [Jerry] I don't produce it,
I'm not responsible for
how it's all put together--
- [Producer] Stand
by font over 47.
- The producers are
the ones that work.
- Light 'em up, let's go.
- Every day we were
putting on another show.
- [Producer] Out cue viewers.
- [Burt] And every
day, we had to fill
42 minutes of television.
- [Announcer] Jerry
Springer, right over there!
(cheering)
- But the reality
of sort of putting
together the show itself--
- [Crew] Five, four--
- [Laura] And the sort
of production process
behind the scenes--
- [Crewman] Five seconds.
- [Laura] It's not easy to do.
- Two, one,
and open!
- [Ricki] We're saying
bye bye to one of our--
- [Laura] Once producers
had a sense of topic,
the first step was
that they would plug
that topic on the air.
- [Announcer] Is more
than one woman claiming
you're the father of her baby?
- [Narrator] Are you
involved in a love triangle--
- So if you remember when
you used to watch talk shows,
there would always be this line,
"If you're having trouble
with your siblings--"
- Are your parents
cheating on each other?
- Do you know somebody who
slept with the babysitter,
and now wants to
say they're sorry?
- [Announcer] If
you want to tell her
there's no way you're
getting my gay lover's sperm,
call 1-800 GO RICKI.
(phone rings)
- And people would
actually call in.
(bustling music)
(murmuring)
(phone rings)
- We would have generally
about 1000 calls a day.
(phone rings)
- [Amy] We'd have interns
taking down their numbers.
Half of them would be fake.
- You were flirting
at your own wedding?
- But half would be real.
- [Operator] So you're having
sex with your girlfriend's
mother, is that correct?
- They had to be
good storytellers.
If they had a great story but
they were terrible talkers,
we couldn't put 'em on.
And then we would just say like,
"Mary and Steve are
definitely number one.
"They're the best talkers,
"the babysitter's
willing to come!"
That was like, "The
babysitter's willing to come?"
- So once a show is booked,
it's kind of just
the beginning really.
(thoughtful music)
Guests arrive, they go
through hair and makeup.
There'll be soundchecks.
- And then the producer who
was assigned to the show
would go in the
green room with them,
and start briefing them,
"Okay, let's go
through your story."
- I just want you here
to see how great you are.
- Not telling them what to
say, but it's very important
to talk the guest through it
because they're not experts.
- But use arms, you see
how I'm using my arms?
- So we would rehearse them.
- They remind guests
of why they're there.
They remind guests
of the injustice
that's been done to them.
- Why, why is he yours?
- He's mine, bitch.
- What do you love about him?
- He loves me.
- Producers tell the
guests, "This is your show.
"You're the star of the show."
(producers cross-talk)
Right, you've got
a studio, a stage,
you've got lights,
you've got cameras.
(applause)
You've got a live audience.
For guests, the television
part of it begins to recede.
- [Producer] Roll Z.
- And the theater part
of it begins to emerge.
- [Producer] Stand by 45--
- Thank you!
- I want you to take a
good look at these men.
- And we're back
with calender men
and the women who
fantasize about them.
- Today we're
gonna meet people--
- Here is Erin.
(cheering)
- In most cases, they've
never ever been on television,
they've never been on a stage,
never had to reveal their
life to anybody else.
And now all of a sudden,
they're on a stage where
the nation is watching.
Take us through that day.
Take us through the
process of doing
what most people is unthinkable.
- People'd always say to me,
"Why would people
come on your show?"
Well, take a guy, for instance.
He gets bitched at by his wife.
If he had a job, he gets
bitched at by the job.
Nobody's listening to him.
He gets here, and
we're listening to him.
- [Geraldo] Did you and
Jane fall out of love?
- Yes, it was more difficult
when the second baby came.
- The best guests are those
who pour out their stories.
- We fell in love right away.
- [Host] So, you
love this person.
- [Woman] I am totally
in love with him.
- [Host] Okay, your sister is
over there biting her hand.
- The more animated you are--
why did you bring him here?
- We hate this rug he wears.
- The better you're gonna
be received by an audience
and by a host.
If you wanna leave
it on like that--
(laughing)
- If you're a good
host, you listen.
(guest murmurs)
You smile but not
laugh or guffaw.
- Psychotic behavior of Jesus.
- [Sally] Part of
it is camera work,
you look into the
eye of the camera,
you lean forward into it.
- Eat his heart out.
- Why do you make
women call you daddy?
I was the conductor.
You know, I can
bring up the oboes,
and turn turn down the timpani.
If one set of guests
turned out to be a dud,
I could always go the audience.
Who can blow a bubble
for me the quickest?
And get something
out of the audience.
I got a bubble over here!
- I always saw the studio
audience as a prop.
- What the hell?
(audience shouting)
- [Joshua] To model a response
for the audience at home.
- [Audience] Jerry!
- And also to raise
the energy level.
- [Ricki] Didn't you
also flatten her tires
and bust out her window?
- Yes, I did, yes.
(audience screams)
(frantic circus music)
- Daytime talk was like the
highest high and the lowest low
because when a show worked,
there was nothing better.
I mean, it was like
the adrenalin running--
- He belongs to me!
- [Amy] The host is on fire.
- Not even close.
- The guests are fantastic--
- She's a pig.
(audience roars)
- The audience is loving it.
- Call me after the show.
(applause)
- When everything came
together on a show,
it was like magic.
- You need to get
this relationship,
'cause this thing's a
freak who'll leave you--
(roaring)
- Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
I mean, that is like
a gold mine, right?
(cross-talking)
- [Crew] And lose it.
Jerry, ready music,
ready title fly--
- Three, two--
- Ratings in television
is really the air
that you breathe.
- [Crewman] Light
'em up, let's do it.
- [Geraldo] If you
don't have ratings,
you don't have oxygen.
- Hold on one.
- Doesn't matter how
slickly produced you are.
People aren't watching,
they're not watching.
- [Hype Man] Will you
welcome Sally Jessy Raphael?
Right there!
- I paid attention to
ratings every single day
to make sure that we
were beating Jenny Jones,
we were beating whatever show
that might have been on the air.
(applause)
- There were so many talk shows,
and there's a finite
number of people
who are gonna view these shows
so they were basically
cannibalizing each
other's audiences.
- In the 90s, there
weren't that many outlets.
You know, all the cable
channels weren't there,
so you had to get maybe
five or six million people
just to stay alive.
- [Producer] Stand by 45--
- A lot of people say,
"Look, we'll give you
"the best show we
know how to do,
"and let the ratings
fall where they may."
No.
We had to win!
- All right, ladies
and gentlemen,
this is our main event.
- In order to win, we had
to beat the other guy.
- And in the corner,
Sally Jessy Raphael!
(cheering)
- And that's where, uh,
the shows got louder.
(simmering music)
(audience roaring)
- Everybody is sort of
competing for the same audience,
so you have to stand
out from the pack.
Well, somebody's
already broken his nose,
so we're gonna do
something better.
- Here they are, the club kids!
- [Anchor] A pioneer
in the genre concedes
talk show competition is
the fiercest he's ever seen.
- Well, you breathe harder,
you tap dance faster,
you hire outrageously
creative people.
If I wanted to show what
capitalism is to a communist,
I'd show him this.
(audience roars)
- [Producer] Stand
by font over 47.
- We certainly tried to
keep the quality good.
- [Referee] And Sally the
winner, we'll be right back!
- We certainly tried
to keep the dignity.
It certainly
slipped away from us
every once and a while.
(dramatic music)
- Is this gonna hurt?
When I got the fat removed
to be injected
into my forehead--
- [Joan] Oh!
- I got to drop trow--
(screams)
I was with Joan Rivers,
personified plastic
surgery at that time.
- Then you take the fat out,
and do you boil it,
or you just put it--
- [Surgeon] When we inject,
it should be very comfortable.
- So it had a little of
everything. (chuckles)
- [Surgeon] Here you go.
(Geraldo yelps)
Got it.
- Okay.
- We did, um, many shows
with women with large breasts.
(cheering)
- Look at you, you're
out of proportion.
Your boobs--
- Look at you!
- You're out of proportion!
- If you're in a race,
you want to win.
(cheering)
- You wanna see more?
You wanna see larger breasts?
(cheering)
- Morally, yes, that
got challenging.
- The guests on our program
are going to be nude!
(cheering)
- Because of the intense
competition for ratings,
you began to see the turn
to the more spectacular,
raucous, carnival-esque.
- Shows are exploitive,
you should stop it.
And the ratings are going up,
and the companies
are making money.
- I'm not really a woman.
- We did so many
transsexual shows.
(audience roars)
- The 800 pound guy Denny,
and he couldn't leave his house.
- So we literally
had to take down
the side of the house.
- Which was interesting.
- When you hear that
all the talk shows
are going for sensationalism,
then there's no alternative.
- [Jerry] My guests today
truly are unforgettable.
- Eventually, there's
no way around this,
you're gonna put
big busted women on.
You're gonna do the Klan.
(audience boos)
'Cause you know they rate,
and you're gonna do them.
- Go to hell.
- That's right!
(audience roars)
- We certainly did our share
of making a mistake
here and there,
maybe going too far.
(cheering)
We all did.
- [Man] Not to be discussed--
- [Producer] Roll 47,
track dissolve.
- [Anchorwoman] By
presenting sensational
and sleazy material,
talk shows have seen
a ratings increase,
but it has come with a price.
- It was very, very stressful.
Because the ratings
were so high,
you don't know who to please.
- [Anchorwoman] Viewers
flock to these freak shows
to hear about deviant topics.
(brooding music)
- You're working,
you're competing,
and you've got
yourself believing
that what you're doing is okay.
And I would say most of
the time it was okay.
- Bob, come on out and
join us, would you?
- Jenny Jones was known
for ambushing guests.
(cheering)
And this particular
ambush went awry.
- Now which of these
ways would you choose
to reveal your secret
crush on someone?
- In 1995, Jenny Jones did
what was pretty much
a standard issue
show topic at that
point in TV talk shows,
which was secret crush show.
- A, would you write
that person a letter?
B, would you tell
the person in private
in case he rejects you?
- She brought on a guy
named Scott Amedure.
- Or C, would you tell
that person that you're gay
and you hope he is on
national television
in front of millions--
(audience roars)
- And he came on the show--
- He's got a cute
little hard body.
- And expressed, you know,
kind of what he'd like to
do to Jonathan and so on.
- Tie him up in my hammock.
- All in sort of, I don't know,
by then, sort of
traditional good fun.
- Well, it entails, like,
whipped cream and champagne.
Stuff like that.
(audience shouting)
- She brought on
Jonathan Schmitz.
- John, come out here and
see who has the crush on him.
- Now when they told him that
he was booked on the show,
it could be a man or
it could be a woman,
but the guy was obviously
expecting a woman
to be his secret admirer.
- [Jenny] Did you think
Donna had the crush on you?
- No, we're good friends.
- [Jenny] Well, guess
what, it's Scott
that has the crush on you.
- You liked to me.
- And the straight man was
expecting someone else.
And afterwards, he said that
he'd been so humiliated.
- We'll show a little playback
of what Scott said about you.
- Well, it entails like
whipped cream and champagne.
Stuff like that.
- [Laura] It ate away at him.
- Two days later,
Jonathan Schmitz
went to Scott Amedure's house
and shot him at close
range and killed him.
(siren wails)
- [Reporter] Another
salacious subject
to titillate chat show junkies,
but this time, it
ended in disaster.
- My first reaction
was, "Oh my gosh,
"that could have
been any of us."
It could have been
any of our shows,
it just happened to be them.
- [Anchorwoman] Schmitz
and his supporters claimed
he'd been driven to
the murderous act
by an unscrupulous
talk show staff
which hid the fact it was
a same sex attraction.
(simmering music)
- In some cases, they are
taking people who are vulnerable
and exploiting them for
entertainment purposes.
And it is a volatile
thing to do,
but that's what the genre was.
- [Anchorman] Well, the
victim's family believe
the Jenny Jones show,
including the host herself,
bore some of the blame.
- We all regret what happened,
the fact is that this tragedy
is about the actions
of one individual.
- Jenny Jones probably
never met those guests
until she walked out on stage,
and nobody was trying
to get anybody killed.
- [Man] Simply to
provide a forum--
- There was a civil suit in
which the victim's family
sued the Jenny Jones Show
for their part in the murder.
- You understand
that relationship
between pumping up
ratings and demographics
to increase income,
isn't that true?
- That's not what I think
about when I'm taping the show.
I do not think about ratings.
- So a talk show was
literally on trial,
but the whole TV talk show
industry could be on trial
because what Jenny
Jones was doing
was what other shows
were also doing.
It led to a murder.
(police siren wails)
- The media started to say,
"Have talk shows gone too far?"
- Lot of talk tonight
about a talk show
and a huge verdict
against the producers.
It is raising questions
about whether shows
that exploit people's
personal lives
can be held responsible
for the consequences,
and in this case,
that was a murder.
(police siren wails)
- The Jenny Jones murder
was the turning point
for a lot of shows.
- [Achmorman] Schmitz say he
fatally shot Scott Amedure
after Schmitz was
ambushed and humiliated
on the daytime talk show.
- The Jenny Jones case kind
of pulled back the veil
on these shows and
the audience realized,
"Oh, wait, these people are
maybe being manipulated."
- You lied to me.
(laughter)
- The show was a
lighthearted show.
No one seemed upset
in that segment.
- [Reporter] The civil
trial now under way
as the Amedure family
sues the Jenny Jones Show
for 50 million dollars.
- Certainly what was
raised at this trial
were the ethics of producing
this kind of television.
- They claim that the
talk show is responsible
for Amedure's death because
they created the scenario
that led to the killing.
- The show was found liable
and fined 25 million dollars.
It was later overturned,
but still a lot of hosts
vowed to sort of tone down.
- We all backed
off a little bit.
We had to.
- [Producer] Stand by 45--
- Everybody changed their show
because they were terrified
to do anything that
would have something
like the Jenny
Jones murder happen.
Not us.
- Six.
Ready Jerry, ready--
(cautious, pensive music)
And ready.
- One--
- Stand by here we
go, and up on six, go!
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- Jerry Springer didn't
have that same underbelly
of deception.
- [Director] Cue
music when you cue applause,
ready title fly.
- And here is your
former best friend Kim.
- [Richard] We never surprised
anybody or shocked anybody.
- Your best friend is sleeping
with your 15-year-old son?
- Yeah.
- Guests always knew somethin's
comin' down the pike.
- How'd that ever happen?
- I don't know, but
the wretched bitch
is gonna get her
ass kicked today.
- But now it just
got so over the top,
it became almost a
cultural cartoon.
- [Friend] Slut!
- [Mom] Bitch you be--
(audience roars)
- Let's meet this,
uh, this son of yours.
(audience roars)
- We never sat in
a room and said,
"Hey, let's do fights."
It evolved.
- You're a liar.
- You're a bitch.
- [Liar] Bitch!
(audience roars)
- But when it evolved,
everybody was smart
enough to know,
"Okay, let's see
how we can do this."
- [Jerry] Are you
aware that your fiance
is sleeping with him?
- I'm very aware.
As a matter of fact, I was
in the closet watching.
(roaring audience)
- Jerry Springer took
the conflict version
of TV talk shows and
escalated it so far--
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- I will (beep) you up, Andrea.
- You wanna (beep) me up?
(audience roars)
- Humans are draw to
watching raw aggression.
(shouting)
And then let's be an audience
that unites around
that aggression.
(cheering)
Right? Jerry, Jerry.
- [Audience] Jerry,
Jerry, Jerry!
- We're all feeling
superior and protected,
and we're putting you up there.
We can watch you
destroy yourself.
-[Guest] Bitch!
(audience roars)
- The Springer Show
had fights every day.
But people always used
to ask me, "Is it fake?"
You know, I've had two
major back surgeries,
a concussion,
so those fights weren't fake.
- We had seen people
get in fights before
on these shows, obviously,
but Jerry Springer took
it to the next level
of a kind of cartoon violence.
People watched it the
way they watch wrestling.
(cheering)
- [Guest] Bitch!
(roaring)
- It's not your
traditional talk show.
And it's not exactly
a sporting event.
And it's not exactly theater.
So it's a circus.
- Hey, I got somethin'
for your honeymoon, bitch.
I got a good tape of
me (beep) your lady.
(screaming)
(static hisses)
- It just exploded.
- Today's topic is
"My father is evil,
"and he wants to
take over the world."
(booing)
- What?
Scott,
daddy's back.
- [Interviewer] Jerry,
good to see you again.
- Nice seeing you.
- Jerry, up until a
year and a half ago,
you were not a household name.
- Suddenly, we were everywhere.
- [Announcer] MTV is pleased
to present Springer Break!
- It seemed like
every other week,
we were doing
skits for Jay Leno,
or David Letterman.
- Here's Jerry Springer.
(applause)
- The Jerry Springer show was
everywhere in pop culture.
- How'd it feel to learn
your baby was fathered
by a drooling space octopus?
- It made me angry, Jerry.
- You saw it on the X-Files,
you saw it on Roseanne,
and it stood in for
"Here's something so crazy
"that you'd only believe it
"if it was a Jerry
Springer Show episode."
- The Springer Show
became a phenomenon.
- In 1998,
It just became
this incredible force.
(cheering)
And all of a sudden,
we were beating Oprah.
(ambient music)
- [Reporter] Springer
recently became
the first talk show host ever
to knock Oprah
Winfrey off her throne
as the queen of daytime talk.
- Which, you know,
caused TV to be outraged.
- Oprah Winfrey told the
Sunday Times of London
that Springer's show is a,
quote, vulgarity circus.
- [Audience] Jerry!
- Jerry Springer was
like the pure, pure form
of conflict-based talk shows,
and it was clear to people
that this version of the genre
was now what viewers
wanted to watch.
- Now Oprah's saying she may
quit her show because of you.
- When Springer eclipsed
Oprah in the ratings,
that was a real defining moment
that would change
the genre yet again.
- [Announcer] Jerry Springer,
television that packs a punch
on screen and in the ratings.
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- The first time we beat
Oprah in the ratings,
went into the
office the next day,
and everyone's
screaming and yelling.
Because it's a business, and
it's a competitive business,
so you feel like, wow,
something really happened.
- [Reporter] Jerry Springer,
America's hottest day
time talk show host.
- And we were on the
top of the ratings
57, 58 weeks in a row.
- I think the Springer
Show was so successful
'cause it was just
pure craziness,
you never know what
somebody was gonna say,
love triangles, fighting.
(shouting)
And most shows, let's face it,
they think they're above that.
Well, guess what?
What you're too good for--
(roaring)
Most people are tuning
in and watching.
- Are you in fact
sleeping with Leo?
- Yes, I am.
(audience roars)
- Now in order to compete,
talk shows had to be
bolder and brasher
and more conflict-based.
- What would you like
to say to your mother?
- I'm sorry!
- To the point where
it was cartoonish.
- I told you!
I told you!
- Now we (beep)--
- At that time, Universal
bought Maury Povich.
- [Girl] Because I hate him.
- Maury really
understood the business.
The audience that
wanted this was there.
- She's trembling right now
because Yvonne is deathly
afraid of balloons.
(balloons pop)
(shrieks)
- But Maury, I think,
took it to the next level.
- [Maury] Oh, now don't go
back there, that's worse!
(shrieks)
- When Maury Povich came along,
it was really hard to
find something new to do
on these shows that was
gonna surprise people,
but he hit on exactly the
right thing, and it was gold.
- Should we find out right now?
- [Audience] Yes.
- Maury decided to
do paternity tests!
- Candice says it's yours.
You say you don't think so.
If you are the
father, they applaud.
If you're not the
father, they explode.
You are not the father.
- Yeah!
(audience roars)
(bleep)
Yeah! Yeah!
Yeah!
- [Amy] A lot of people did
think some of the subjects
were exploitive.
(shouting)
- [Woman] Get back! (sobs)
- But we have to
feed your audience.
(crowd roars)
The audience that
wanted this was there.
We gave them what they wanted.
- I mean, if you
saw a show today
that said, "I married a horse--"
(roaring)
Would you watch it?
I know I would.
(shouting)
- This is so sick, I don't
even know how to deal with it.
(dramatic, worrying music)
The show was so crazy.
It's perfect fodder
for any critic.
(applause)
- Constant controversy
over content
has put talk shows
under the microscope,
and the most sensational
programs under real attack.
- In the late 90s,
partly in response to the
success of Jerry Springer,
there was quite a bit
of political backlash.
- Former Republican education
secretary William Bennett
teamed up with Democratic
senators Sam Nunn
and Joseph Lieberman
to send talk show hosts
a message to get them
to clean up their act.
- Most of these shows
are really aimed
at using shock and
social dysfunction,
sexual dysfunction, perversion,
immorality as a
way to make money.
- They called these
talk shows cultural rot.
- [Anchorwoman] Cultural rot.
- Shows are disgusting,
they're depraved,
and they're obsessed with sex.
- So vile, so vulgar.
- They would make the claim
that we are destroying America.
- Divorce and separation rates--
- The erosion of
our own society.
- How can the Jerry Springer--
I mean, the Jerry Springer
Show's gonna destroy America?
- If you watch any TV show,
there's tons of violence,
there's tons of sex.
So you ant to get on your horse
about the Jerry Springer Show?
- Isn't good for the country,
this isn't good for the culture.
- You know, people are
comfortable as long
as the people on television
are upper middle class white,
or famous, or good looking.
Now all of a sudden,
our show comes along,
and they're seeing people
they have never seen
on television before.
- The fact that people are
screaming at each other,
domestic abuse--
these shows are a
part of the problem.
- Television is a mirror.
If you don't like
what you're seeing,
don't blame the mirror.
- After a while, we
became the poison
even though we
were the big show.
Shows have said, "We are not
gonna be the Springer Show."
But I think Springer made
such a mark in that genre,
that when it was
back to Phil Donahue,
because they'd been watching
this explosion every day,
well, then people
were now bored.
So everybody started dropping.
And I think talk didn't
know where to go,
and I don't think
executives knew where to go.
It was a confusing time,
and I think it was basically
becoming the end of talk show.
- Jerry Springer, do
you get the message?
Are you ready to
clean up your act?
- Well, I think it's a little
bit hypocritical for us
to get speeches about
morality, and ethics,
and cleaning up the act
out of Washington, DC.
(shouting)
- [Richard] We got torn
apart in the press.
- This kind of trash television
has to go and will
not be tolerated.
- We got picked by TV Guide
as the worst TV show ever.
But there was a sense
of we're still standing,
and the shows are
starting to drop.
- Thanks for
watching, everybody.
We'll see you next
time, bye bye.
- And particularly
after they started going
really low brow,
I just couldn't stand
the ridicule anymore.
- People wanted to see
pulling hair and punchin',
but other shows said,
"We are not gonna be
the Springer Show."
- [Announcer] Sally
Jessy Raphael!
- Then like Sally went
off after a while, right?
She was done with the
confrontational shows.
- So then it became, "Oh,
we gotta do this again."
(shouting)
Oh, what are we gonna do? How
are we gonna make it better?
(shouting)
It just got old after a while.
- [Audience] Jerry, Jerry!
- This is like anything else.
When something's
on for a long time,
it's not as special anymore.
People get used to things.
- Thank you for watching.
See ya next time.
- We went off the air
because we had done
every topic we wanted to
do at least six times.
- [Sergeant] Okay!
- Everybody had seen bootcamp.
- Push 'em!
- Everybody had seen lying.
Nothing was like
"Oh my God" anymore.
- [Producer] Five,
four.
(applause)
- Talk didn't know where to go.
- But one of the
particular positive things
that talk shows demonstrated
was that you could
make decent money
from ordinary people's
experiences being on screen.
And you didn't
have to pay actors
to create entertainment.
That made it possible
for people to think
about other ways to do that.
(curious music)
Let's do that by putting
10 different types
of people in a house.
- Just walk around.
- This is where we live?
- You know, let's
send a bunch of people
who hate each other
on a road trip.
(bleeping)
(cross-talking)
- Don't you fight!
- Don't ruin it!
- Don't ruin it!
- Don't you fight!
- So the spontaneous
reality of the daytime show
led to a kind of a
blending of a scripted show
and an unscripted show,
became known as a reality show.
- TV show producers basically
took what was on set,
and shifted it into
people's homes.
- You've disrespected me,
you've disrespected me!
- No.
- Bring it, bitch.
- But the same kind
of stuff is going on.
You know, you've got nudists.
- The guests on our
program are nude!
- It felt awkward sitting
next to a naked gay man.
- You've got people fighting.
(indecipherable shouting)
- Look at some of these shows,
they could be Jerry
Springer episodes.
(bleep)
(crashing)
They just have that layer
of the host stripped away.
- Leave her alone.
- Get off me.
- I can't take this.
(curious tonal music)
- Problem is, reality
TV is not reality.
- [Bachelor] Will you marry me?
(chuckles)
- Talk shows are.
The people that come
on our show are real.
Okay, let's get started.
Here is Carla.
And they are bringing what is
really happening in their life
onto the stage.
- Go ahead, keep talking, go.
- It wasn't created
for television,
it existed before they
ever got to the studio.
What we call reality
television is not real
because you're taking
people and putting them
in a fake situation.
You're putting
them on an island,
you're putting them in a house.
- All of youse in this house,
I want you all to know
that I can't stand any of you!
- With reality television,
you see the importance placed
on the concept of
performance itself.
- What is wrong with you?
Stop it!
I have never in my life
yelled at a girl like this!
- There's a value to that.
It's sort of its
own form of capital.
- [Donald] New York City, it's
the benchmark for success.
Believe me, I know.
- Among the primetime programs
was Celebrity Apprentice.
There was Donald
Trump the impresario.
Watch him as the ringmaster.
- Welcome to your
first boardroom.
- He's performing
being a strong person,
he's performing being, you
know, a business tycoon.
- You see why Trump is Trump.
- There's a real skill in
playing yourself on television.
You know, Donald Trump
played a character
of Donald Trump
on the Apprentice,
and that's how the
world knows him.
- We will make
America great again.
(cheering)
- Now we have a
commander in chief
who's performing
being a president.
- No collusion, no obstruction.
- With Donald Trump
as the 45th president,
every day is a reality show.
- See any evidence
of any wire-tapping.
- So not only did
we ruin talk shows--
- I do get good ratings,
you have to admit that.
(static hisses)
We are also responsible
for creating reality TV
which then ruined television,
and (stammers) then the country.
(piano music)
- We learned a lot from
tabloid television.
Of course people were exploited
for entertainment
value and ratings.
However, looking back on it,
you have to admit that
there were good things
that came out of it.
There actually was value
in disenfranchised people
being put in our living room.
- You saw all different races,
all different lifestyles,
all different sexual identity.
- We saw gay people,
transgender people.
For the first time,
in many cases.
- [Laura] Jerry Springer
gave trans folks a voice.
- I've never felt like a male,
I don't look like a male.
- Was it a terribly
dignified voice?
No, of course not.
But it was a voice.
(pensive music)
- People on the
fringes of society
learned that they
were not alone.
- These are all women.
We are very special
women, but we are women.
We're not hurting anybody,
we just ask for respect.
- I think talk
shows moved culture
in some really interesting ways,
because the strategy
was to bring on people
that were considered deviant,
but one of the
things that happened,
I guess ironically,
over time is that
through constant talking
about it and showing it,
it becomes less deviant.
- Familiarity sometimes
breeds compassion.
- I love her for who
she is not what she is.
(clapping)
- And it moved the needle
as far as tolerance.
(cheering)
(inspiring music)
- Television started out
as a personality medium,
it remains a personality medium.
You've got Wendy Williams,
you've got Dr. Phil.
- You have Ellen,
you have gossip shows,
the View, the Chew.
- Six years!
(shouting)
Six years!
- You guys--
- Hey, Jerry.
- [Jerry] Hi.
- The Springer Show
still doing fine,
they're still on the air.
- This is some best
friend you have.
- [Burt] As well
as Maury Povich.
- Talk shows systematically
opened up a space
for ordinary people to
participate on television.
- It's disgusting.
(laughter)
- But that was
only the beginning.
- Hey, what's
goin' on, SnapChat?
- SnapChat does it now,
Facebook does it now,
YouTube does it now.
- 'Cause this is
personal, super personal.
It's something I
always kept a secret.
- They're using their phones,
they're using tablets,
they're using all kinds
of internet connections.
- Everybody wants to
have their voice heard.
Everybody wants to
tell their story.
- We are social beings,
human beings like to talk
about what's going
on in their lives.
That will never change.
- [Producer] And lose it.
(pensive piano music)
- Well, today's final thought is
may you never be on my show.
Take care of yourself
and each other.