Children of the Underground (2022): Season 1, Episode 2 - The Underground - full transcript

- We have arrested Faye Yager

in connection
with the abduction

of an eight-year-old
white female.

- She's widely known
for running a network

to save abused children.

Now she's accused of
kidnapping and cruelty.

- The only thing I tried to
do is protect a few children.

That's it.

- Is Faye Yager a heroine,

or is she,
as the state maintains,

a kidnapper who has
mentally abused children



into falsely claiming
their father had abused them?

This will be
a sensational trial,

expected to draw
huge media attention.

- She knew where her child
was at at all times.

I deny all of her allegations.

- The charges
are simple enough.

One count of kidnapping,
two counts

of cruelty to children,

and one count of interfering
with the custody of a child.

The sentences could add up
to 61 years.

- They can't do anything else
to me that would be any worse

than what
I've had to live through.

- Joining us now,
this is Faye Yager,

who's the founder
of the underground network.



She's now facing a jail term
for kidnapping

and being an abuser herself,
which is impossible.

Why would they--the police
arrested you for this?

- Yes.
- Yeah.

And how long were you in jail?
- Um, about 15 hours.

- Oh, that--
all right--now, why--

- Long enough to book me,
fingerprint me,

and strip search me.
- Strip search you?

- Yeah, the whole works.

Well, I was arrested supposedly
for kidnapping a child.

- Kidnapping a child?
- Yes.

- There was
a young mom who asked Faye

for help protecting her child.

Faye then refused
to give the child back

when the mother
changed her mind

and said she didn't want
the child

to be in hiding anymore.

- Billie Faye Yager,
charged with kidnapping,

two counts of cruelty
to children,

and one count
of interference with custody.

- It's a trumped up charge.
I did not kidnap a child.

- The prosecution
of Faye Yager

was a subterfuge,

an excuse to execute
a search warrant

and find out as much
as they could

about her network.

- This is a setup.

It's entirely a setup
to get me out,

to shut me up.

- It was and is right

and just
and proper for Faye Yager

to have attempted to do
what she attempted to do.

- You, I know,
are doing such wonderful work.

I wish you such good luck.
- Bless you.

Come see me in jail.

- Oh, don't even say that.
Don't even say that.

- You may call
your next witness.

- Faye Yager.

- Miss Yager, if you would
come forward, please, madam,

and stand
at the witness station.

- No matter
how brave she was

and how strong a front
she presented,

she was scared.

She was just terrified
of getting convicted.

- Billie Faye Yager.

- Do you know
what your rights are?

- Yes.

- What are your rights?

I know that--

that I do--
I don't have to testify today.

- OK, and if you testify,
you know what can happen?

- Yes.
- What can happen?

- I--I know that if--if I--

I could tell something
and end up convicted.

- What's your desire
with regard to those rights?

- I waive them.

I--I would--
I want to tell the truth.

- The defense wanted this case
to be presented to the jury

as she was doing
a public service.

- Tell the ladies
and gentlemen of the jury

about what later became known
as Children of the Underground.

- I have referred to
Children of the Underground

as being a civ--

in some ways,
civil disobedience.

- There are times when there's
no other alternative

to keep a child safe

when vigilantism
is absolutely appropriate.

- When you received information
about a particular child,

what did you do
with that information?

- Well, many times,

I would put
the information

in a notebook type form,

and I'd put the child's
picture on the front,

and I'd compile
the medical records,

psychological reports,

police reports on the abuse,

court records, and drawings.

- And tell the ladies
and gentlemen of the jury,

why did you put
that notebook together?

- When these children came,
many times,

there would be documents
that the prosecuting attorney

didn't have
and didn't know about.

- And what is contained
within defendants 106?

- It's a notebook
that I put together

on my little girl.

Michelle's drawings
that she sent to me

when she was five years old...

The court order in Florida

where I only got two hours
of unsupervised visitation,

her gonorrhea report...

And her notes,
what happened to her,

and her discharge from
Charter Peachford Hospital.

- That's always bothered me
that I--

in these courtrooms where
this evidence is presented,

remember, most of the time,
it's not a criminal setting.

It's family court.

- In family court cases,

nobody knows
what the standard of proof is

when you have a case
involving a child

who has accused her father
of sexual abuse.

- There's things that we know,

and there's things
that we can prove,

and the court system only wants
to know what you can prove.

And so unless you have
the rare case

where someone
was taking pictures

of their illegal conduct,
you, generally speaking,

don't have evidence,
absent someone getting,

like, you know,
a sexual disease at age six.

Right?
That would be a red flag.

But even with evidence
like a sexual disease,

it's not always enough.

The experts come in,
and they talk about,

"Well, it's possible that that
child just had poor hygiene,

and they got it
from a toilet seat."

Right?

Or you miss a deadline
to file the evidence,

and the judge
deems it inadmissible.

There are many factors
that can get in the way,

even with evidence
that seems

like it should be
indisputable.

It's subject
to the whim of the court.

- Mothers who believe
that their children

were sexually abused
lose custody much more often

than mothers who
didn't make the accusation.

- It's a big dilemma
when I have

protective parents
coming to me,

wanting to say,
"My child's being abused."

And I have to go, "OK,
well, let's think about this."

If you make a claim of abuse
without having proof of it,

you could end up
losing full custody

and having
only supervised visits,

and the abuser could end up
having 100% custody,

legal and physical,

of the child
that you're trying to protect.

- Michelle Jones.
- Michelle Jones, please.

- Can you tell the ladies
and gentlemen

of the jury your name?
- Michelle Jones.

- How old are you, please?
- 22.

- Do you know Faye Yager?

- She's my mother.

That's Mom.

She was beautiful.

Like, this is the mom
she was destined to be,

and then it was taken from her.

I mean, that's when
I see this picture.

I see the beginning

of this really difficult path

that she had to go on.

This is a great picture

of Mom with me.

That was before everything
just went south,

so there was
still innocence there.

There's still joy.

From this point after,

she never had a chance
to do that again.

Like, those moments
were stolen from her.

We have Roger.

I mean, he just looks
like a pedophile.

That was right in the midst

of when all that chaos
was going on.

After my father got custody
of me...

I would see my mom
maybe twice a year.

I didn't know she wanted me.
I had no idea, you know?

I was living under his control

and being told daily
that she didn't want me.

So I felt like I was
on an island unto myself.

And I thought,
"I've talked, I've talked.

"I've told everybody,
I've told everybody.

Why bother saying it?"

Why bother saying
you were abused

and what happened
during that abuse

when it doesn't do anything?

It does nothing.

So I stopped talking about it.

- Who is your father?

- Roger Jones.

- And what were the charges
against your father?

- Pornography,
child molestation.

- Was this
as it relates to you?

- No, there are some other kids
that he got a hold of.

Roger had been charged
with molesting

not one,
but several young girls.

So I was like,
"OK, good, now it's starting

to kind of unravel for him."

And I wanted my chance to...

say my side of what he did.

- When you came
to see your mother,

did you and she discuss
all that had happened to you?

- Once the news was already out
what he had done,

I knew it was all right
to tell somebody,

and I called up my mother,
and I just told her the truth.

I looked at Mom,
and I went, "You were right."

And she goes, right about what?

And I was like,
"All those times that you

"asked me about the abuse,
I lied to you.

"You were right.

He did abuse me."

He read me a bedtime story
while he, um--

He didn't have intercourse,
but he fondled me.

And...

And did
what you can think about.

It just kept going.

He'd bribe me with candy
or with something

to get me to do something
for him sexually.

- How old were you?
- Seven or eight.

I always felt uncomfortable
until I hit the age of 12,

and then when I realized

that it was wrong,
I stopped it.

When I was 13, I stuck
a gun to my father's head.

I told him it was going to end,

and I was not born
to be his wife.

- And did you keep
a gun or a knife with you?

- Oh, yeah.

- I didn't protect her.
I didn't run with her.

I didn't go back down there
and do what a child

thinks you're supposed to do.

A child thinks that you're
there to protect them.

- Telling her
didn't change the past,

but she finally had
a moment of vindication,

like this really did happen,

and that's the moment
she started

the Children
of the Underground.

- I don't know
how any of you people

would feel if
that was your kid,

but I can just tell you that
Faye Yager was ready to fight

a war when that happened.

One day,
I picked up a newspaper,

and I read about a woman
named Karen Newsom.

She refused
to turn her children over

because they
had been molested,

but the judge
didn't believe it.

I'm so outraged
that I find myself

on an airplane to Mississippi.

I go down there,
and I start--start meeting

with all these characters
that are involved

in the hiding
of these two children.

- Not too long ago, I started
looking at old tapes.

This is the two children here
when they first came.

I got a call,
like in the afternoon

that these children
had to be put in hiding.

It was the right thing to do,
you know?

I really
didn't think twice about it.

I had been through it myself.

It happens.

I knew what the mother
was going through.

I knew what the system
was doing.

And Faye called me up
and said,

"I'd like
to come over and help."

I said, "Sure,
we need all the help.

We really do."
You know?

And then I met
my friend Sarah.

Sarah got involved
from Charleston.

- We were all so naive
in the beginning.

I was a flight attendant,
and I married a pilot.

He was tall, good looking.

I thought he was
just an amazing person.

And he was, except for
this one little problem

he had that he
liked children too much.

- I used to think
I was the only person,

but I learned that
the magnitude of the problem

was much bigger
than I ever thought.

- We started meeting with
all of these involved women,

and we decided
that we needed to form a group

and give it a name, and we
came up with the name MARC,

which was Mothers
Against Raping Children.

Jail the molesters!

Not the mothers!

Jail the molesters!
Not the mothers!

- MARC was the beginning
of a collective fight,

not just for our children

but for anyone else
who was in that same position.

If we had met
under any other circumstances,

I'm not sure we would have
become friends.

As it was, we became sisters
because we became so entrenched

in trying to change
the system.

- And I'm perfectly willing
to break the law

and hide any child
that I feel

is being abused
by the legal system.

- We decided to make Faye
our spokesperson.

- Will you give me your name?
- Faye Yager.

- And that's Y-A-G-E-R?
- Yes, sir.

- She could charm
any reporter, charm any--

- Oh, yeah.
They loved her.

And she started out
very quiet and humble,

but once she became
on the news every day

and on the front of magazines,
it became--

- Well, the story kept growing
and growing and growing.

- Yeah, all of a sudden,
we had helped 10,000 kids,

and that's not true.

- I've got over 2,000 files.
2,500.

3,000 families, at least.

- But it really helped
getting the word out.

- Question?
- Yes, Mrs. Yager.

I'm curious, how do you
finance your program?

- Mostly, it's financed
by people that get involved,

people such as yourself.

- She needed to reach out
to the people,

the good people who are going
to help protect these mothers.

- If you're a man or a woman

who has questions
for Faye Yager,

you can reach her at
Children of the Underground.

- The word did get out.

- I'm telling you, the only way
I can stop is for you people

to get out there
and do something about it.

- When they heard
what we were doing,

people came forward
to get involved in it.

- I must have gotten
1,300 letters or more.

And it started growing.

- And how did you get involved
in sheltering fugitives?

You look like
such upstanding folks.

- We are.

We looked at each other,
and we said,

"If this is going on
in America,

then we can't stand by
and do nothing."

- And we got a lot
of high profile support.

One day, this lady came up

and stood in front of me
for a minute,

and then she asked if she
could sit down next to me.

I said, "I'd be honored."
It was Gloria Steinem.

- I had a great deal
of respect and admiration

for the courage
and the creativity

of protective mothers
in this case

who were in that situation.

I remember saying,
"Look, I have an apartment.

"You know, you can--

I can be a stop
on the underground railway."

- It was just amazing
how many people

were sympathetic.

I mean, you've got
community approval.

It really helped.

- On our telephone poll,
the vote is 98% yes

for the underground railroad
and 2% no.

That's
a rather healthy example.

- Hi.
- Hi.

Just checking in on Mom.

There's my beautiful mama...

and me and my brother.

This was probably
after the divorce, the picture.

So this picture
is special to me

because it's before we left.

This is my first communion.

So I was eight years old.

So I always get
a little emotional when I look

at these communion pictures.

It's kind of the--

I mean, life was already crazy
by then,

but it was kind of,
like, before life

went to the next level
of crazy, so...

Mom and Dad decided
to get divorced.

The custody battle,
it went on

for a very long time,
over years.

When my mom thought
that my dad was abusing us,

she didn't want to risk us
going there,

or him maybe
having full custody of us.

So that's when she devised
the whole plan,

her and my stepdad,
to take us and go on the run.

My mom told us that we were
going to Disney World,

and she kept saying,
"Pack all your favorite toys.

"Make sure you bring
all your favorite clothes,

"all your favorite toys.

Bring all
your favorite things."

And I was like, "OK,
like, why am I bringing

"my favorite toys
to Disney World?

We're going to Disney World."
And I had no idea.

And that was it.
We were gone just like that.

So we had
a little travel trailer

that we pulled across country.

I think some ladies in Oregon

said to my mom,
"Get in touch with Faye Yager.

She's the one
that can help you."

This is Faye Yager's house.

I spent a lot of time here.

Her basement was full
of legal boxes

with videos of kids
she had interviewed

and documents, and this was
like her command center.

I do remember being interviewed
by Faye on tape.

I remember her being very--

like, you know, her mean voice.

It was just me
in a room with her.

It was very intimidating.

- Your Honor,
at this time, the state

seeks to tender into evidence

the tapes that were seized
at Ms. Yager's house

as to show modus operandi.

- The prosecution
was introducing tapes

that they thought
showed Faye in a bad light

and met the statutory criteria

for the crime of cruelty
to children.

- Faye Yager, the judge,
and all the lawyers

moved their seats around
closer to the jury box

so they could watch
the first of six videotapes

seized from Faye Yager's home.

- You will see how the children

were intimidated and scared
and frightened and threatened.

- "If you decide she was cruel
to those children,"

the prosecution said,

"you can decide she was cruel
to the children in this case."

- You will see the tape.

- Ms. Yager, why do you use
the type of interviewing

that you use with the children?

- I began to see children
that, um, didn't--

didn't just--
wouldn't just come out

and tell you
what was happening to them.

- But you agree that
your approach is aggressive?

- Yes, ma'am, I would agree
it's aggressive in some ways.

- Faye was not
competently trained

to conduct
a forensic interview.

Faye's techniques
were exactly what

we would train people
how not to interview a child.

- Will you please state
as to the observations

that you had made as far as
viewing those particular tapes?

- The technique
of interviewing,

which is quite different
from what one

generally uses
as a professional

in terms of being
a child psychiatrist.

- At times, Ms. Yager herself
is very supportive.

- Dries tears, hugs children,
and so on.

At other times,
I would characterize

the interviewing technique
as rather aggressive.

- You were raped?
By who?

- She accuses the children
of lying.

- You've been lying to me.

- But I couldn't
remember that then.

- The technique used
reminds one

of the police interro--

police in the movies
interrogating witnesses.

- Are you playing stupid
with me today?

- No.
- No?

You know what I'm talking
about though, don't you?

- If we're going
to seek the truth,

we need qualified
forensic interviews

in an environment
that is conducive

for children to tell the truth.

Today, it's just common sense,

but back then,
we didn't know better.

- Does that ever happen to you,
anything like that?

- No.

- At this moment
in American legal history,

there is no real precedent

for interviewing kids
like this.

- We weren't clear
on how to do this,

how long you should
interview kids for,

what happens
when you ask kids questions.

- I consider
the 1980s to be an era

where the people
that are trying to address

the sexual abuse of children
are pioneers.

Pioneers are trying
to do something

that hasn't been done.

There are plenty of mistakes
in these earlier cases.

- See,
that's like a daddy doll.

- What, were you supposed
to not interview?

There were
children being abused,

and something did need
to be done about it.

- I just want to document
everything she said,

you know, as far
as what happened to her

so that I could send the tapes
to the authorities.

- Faye Yager brought them tapes

so that she could share
with law enforcement

the problem that exists
in this society

and get them to act.

- Because the prosecution
opened the door to the tapes,

it gave Faye the opportunity

to show
how many different children,

you know,
had been horribly abused.

- So I think
the question became,

"Why is Faye on trial

and none of these rapists
ever went to trial?"

have been the motivation

for your way
you go about interviewing

and the purpose
of the underground?

- I would--I would think so,
Ms. Wing.

I would always tell Michelle
that, if there was anything

going on,
that she should tell me,

that I would do everything
I could to help her.

And she would cry,

and then she would get angry
with me and mad at me

for asking.
Then I wouldn't push it.

And I would think
that maybe I was...

Maybe it
really wasn't happening.

- I have no further
questions, Your Honor.

- Ms. Yager, you may step down.

- Yager testified today

she never meant
to hurt these children.

She defended her tough
questioning technique

as necessary to get the truth.

- Faye's passion
springs from her experience

with her own daughter.

- When Roger was charged

with molesting young girls
in Florida,

he told me he was gonna try
to prove his innocence.

And I'm, like,
looking at him, going,

"You're as guilty as hell

"because do you not realize
who you are talking to?

Like, I kind of know you."

And then
when the court date came up,

he didn't show up for court,
and he went on the run.

When he went on the run,
he needed money.

He had a used car lot.
It was probably 100 cars.

He called me and said,
"I need you to sell these."

And I was like, "No."

I was like, "He's a rapist.

He's a pedophile, and he
deserves to have nothing."

And I start just liquidating,
trading them for horses.

The horses
were what I loved the most.

They were some kind
of outlet of normalcy

and of peace
during that period of chaos.

Next thing you know,
I get all these--

I got me six horses.

He calls, like, a month
or so later and is like,

"Hey, I really need to get
that money from you selling.

I'm going to need it
for the run."

And I was like,
"Yeah, about that..."

I was like, "I spent it all."

And he came unglued.

And I just went, click,
hung up on him.

Find out the people
I sold the cars and stuff to

found 5 to 10 tapes
in this trunk

of this convertible Cadillac.

Well, back then,
what do you do?

You stick them in the VCR.
You know what I mean?

And you see what's on them.

He videotaped
these interactions

with these children.

And they're like,
"Oh, my gosh."

They call the police.
The police come in.

They seize all the tapes.

And that's when he ended up
as the first pedophile

to be on
the ten most wanted list.

- He has turned out to be
one of the most notorious

child molesters
this country has ever seen.

- We want Roger Jones
for rape on young children.

There is no indication
that he will stop.

- Look at this headline.

"Lock up your kids
if you spot this man."

And they turned your daughter
back over to this man.

- Yeah, and my child
had a venereal disease,

and they were treating her
for it,

and they handed her to him.

After all of that,

he was caught in the act,
and they arrested him.

He skipped bond, and he's been
at large for two years.

And the FBI, they don't spend
their time trying to find him.

Instead, they spend their money
trying to catch me in the act

of hiding one
of these abused children.

- He was on the run
for three or four years,

and I was sitting there
eating a bowl of cereal,

watching the morning news,
and headline.

Ten most wanted caught.

- Is there a punishment enough

for what he's done
in your mind?

- No.
No.

Um...

I used to say
that I wished he was dead.

And Michelle says,
"Mommy, you don't want that."

She said, "The worst thing
that could happen to him,

"the thing that frightens him
the most

is that he would
have to sit in jail."

- Mom and I went down
to Florida for the trial.

When I testified
against my father,

I looked straight through him
like he was nothing.

Because at that point,
he was nothing.

But he was never charged
with what he did to me.

You literally
almost have to have a red flag

waving with video footage
and all this other stuff.

And it's like,
"Are you freaking kidding me?"

The system
is not gonna save you.

- Harriet Newman Cohen,
you are an attorney.

- Yes.

- You do do
these kinds of cases.

And you believe,
even if the courts fail,

that you should not
kidnap your child

and take
your child underground.

- We've got laws
in the United States

that are set up in order
to protect the children.

- Why don't you just
open your eyes for a minute

and look at what's
going on around you?

- Oh, I do.
- People--no, wait a minute.

People like you are the reason
why they lose their kids,

why I had to go through hell
for 17 years of my ----

excuse me--my life
because someone like you

doesn't want to believe
it's going on

and wants to abide
by the rules.

My mother abided by the rules

and got thrown
into a crazy home,

had shock treatments done
and everything else,

got humiliated by everyone
and his brother

because someone wanted
to abide by the rules.

- There's one half.

Mandy and I were underground

living in Georgia
for almost two months.

We stayed with Faye
for a little bit,

but I realized
that it was better

not to stay in one spot
too long

because people
start asking questions.

And they knew what to do.

- A decision is made on where
they might go permanently.

And they're taught how to get
new ID, how to acquire it,

how to build up
a new identification.

And once they've established
a new ID,

they move to start a new life.

Takes about six months
to a year.

- How would they go about
doing the false identification?

- To be honest, we never
got to the bottom of that,

and we never fully were able
to identify that.

- In the early stages
of the underground,

I tried to help Mom
as much as I could.

I had a lot of connections
down in Florida with, you know,

more elaborate fake IDs.

I just shared with Mom

on how to execute, so then
they could roll underground.

- Faye would go to cemeteries

and find gravestones
that fit the age

of the child
that we needed to protect.

- It's Babyland.

This is where babies
are buried.

- Walk through a graveyard,

find somebody
around your time frame

that had just passed,
pull a birth certificate.

- We're looking for someone

who died at a young age
who didn't have

any kind of history
or anything, you know,

so she'll have
a new birth certificate.

A birth certificate,
so she'll have a new name.

- From the birth certificate,

you can get
a social security number.

- Then we get a passport.

It worked.
It so worked.

I mean, how many times
I went down

to the social security office.

We'd get Social Security cards
and stuff.

It just worked.

- Here's my--
the birth certificate.

This is the birth certificate
that I got, Karen Ann Devry.

I was born in New Jersey
by the way.

- Do you know where that is?
- Um.

- How do you say it?

- Passaic.

- "Puh-sy-ak."

- Oh, look.
Then you were Mandy May Devry.

- After I took the identity
of Karen Ann Devry,

I got married.

We decided that we were
going to settle down.

The family
that offered a safe house

for us to stay at
had moved from New Jersey

to Watkins Glen,

and they were like,
"Come to Watkins Glen."

Watkins Glen's in New York,

bottom of one
of the Finger Lakes.

I found out that I was pregnant
with Robyn Jo.

Nothing like being underground
and getting pregnant.

But we met this lovely couple,
Sandy and Dick Jones.

They had this little house

right next to their house
that they would rent.

- Well, we came in
and sat down in the living room

at this big, old farmhouse,

and Karen Ann was talking.

- Yes, most of the time.

Karen Ann is the only name
that I've ever known her by.

I know her real name is April,
but--

- And after I had Robyn Jo,

you know,
and it's very difficult

having a newborn
and a five-year-old.

Any mom would tell you that.

But I'll never forget
Sandy walking over

one day was like,
"Where is your mother?"

And I just, like--

just broke down,
you know, in tears,

and, like,
the whole story came out.

And she offered
total protectiveness.

- Oh, absolutely.

I wanted to do
anything I could do

to help them after I learned.

- Yeah.

I never thought of it that way,

but you're absolutely right,
harboring a fugitive.

- Ooh!
Come here in.

Ooh!

What a pretty family.

- Ooh, look at
the pretty ribbon.

Mandy has said that her
best childhood memories

were when we were living
at Watkins Glen.

Wave hi.
- Hi.

- But, you know,
Mandy had this extreme anxiety

all the time.

I had to make sure
I was back at the house

every afternoon when the bus
was going to drop her off

because if I wasn't,

she would freak, thinking that
the FBI had found me.

I mean, that was always
in the back of our minds.

- My name is
Charlotte Cristoni.

I'm a private investigator.

I always
wanted to help children

because I was a victim
of sexual abuse

at a very early age.

And in those days,
most families kept it a secret.

When I started hearing stories
about a woman

named Faye Yager,
I was saying, "Thank God.

That's wonderful."

She knew that I had worked
with a group

called MASA,
Mothers Against Sexual Abuse,

and that I encouraged mothers

to get as far away
from the abuser as possible.

Faye told me
she would really like me

to come to her home some time.

There was at least
a half dozen women

inside her house.

I said, you're literally
hiding in plain sight.

What keeps
the police department

from coming down on you,
or the feds, or something?

She goes, "Oh,
I got the blessings

of not only attorneys
but law enforcement."

I thought, "Hmm,
I got to be kind of careful

"around this girl.

She's playing
with the big boys, mm."

I was shocked.

- I met Faye Yager
in the '80s.

I heard about her first

and about the Children
of the Underground.

When judges ordered children
back with the abuser,

moms would ask me, "Well,
what would you do, Mr. Morgan,

if it was your child?"

And I said,
"I would do anything

"and everything
to protect my child,

and there are resources
for you to do so."

- No, I did not contact Faye

because I would have been
an accomplice.

I would let the mother know

that there were
potential resources,

but that I cannot be a part

of her contacting
those resources.

- I believe
much of the system

was conflicted
by the underground

that was hiding children.

So one part of them knew

that there were
legitimate cases

where children
weren't being protected,

and they knew there had to be
a safety valve.

- Many, many people
are involved,

people you wouldn't believe.

People that are going
on the run

are being told
by prosecuting attorneys,

by their lawyers, by family
and children services,

by judges in some cases
to do this.

- John Raymond,
who was the director

or assistant director

of Missing
and Exploited Children,

when I explained
what we were doing,

he said, "If you know
of a case,

"and it's a serious situation,

"you call me and tell me who,

and we won't put them
on milk cartons."

I adored him for that.

- And there was a lawyer
that I worked with,

and she was in with the FBI,

and she knew
when they were watching us.

She knew when we were going
to have arrest warrants.

She let us know because they
believed in what we were doing.

- One of the people that Faye
said she had in her pocket

was the deputy police chief
of Fulton County,

and his name was Red Muliford.

She claimed that if he knew
any warrants,

he would let her know
ahead of time.

- Faye enjoyed
the adventure,

the excitement,
the unpredictability.

- The FBI.
- Why?

- Because he called me.

I'm going to return his call,
find out what he's doing,

who he's snooping after today.

- It was
almost like a dance.

- We just sort of
laughed it off

and said, "Oh, Faye."

But towards the end,
it got really bad.

- All across this country,

mothers and children
are on the run.

They're living in shelters...

- "The Geraldo Show"
was the first day

of the next five years
of my life

that put me through hell.
That was "The Geraldo Show."

- Who are you, ma'am?
- I'm Lydia Rayner.

It's funny because
they put me on one side,

and they put Faye
on the other side.

- Amanda.

- And then Geraldo wanted
to have a family on there,

you know, that we had
in hiding at the time.

- Is your daddy a good man,
or do you think he's a bad man?

- He's a bad man.

- In all of these shows,
they always, you know,

had the wronged father,
um, who wants to come on.

- Joining us right now,
Dr. Larry Spiegel.

He's a psychologist, a father,

wrongfully accused
of sex abuse.

He's the--

- Larry Spiegel
was an advocate

for fathers
that had been unjustly charged

with abusing their children.

- He detailed
his traumatizing experience,

the experience of the falsely
alleged child abuse he has--

- He's been accused of
sexually abusing his daughter,

and he was acquitted,

but most of the fathers
were acquitted,

and Geraldo was trying
to stir everybody up.

- We all heard
what that sweet, little thing

said her father did to her.
- Yes.

- Should she be believed?

- She should not be believed
on the basis of that statement.

I have yet to hear
a 3-and-1/2-year-old--

- But when you have over--

when you have
psychologists reports,

doctors reports...

- Let me just finish what
I'm going to say, OK?

- You know,
saying the same thing--

- Just hang on
for one moment.

- Listening to him,
I was just crazy mad.

And then Faye stood up.

- I'd like to address
my question to Dr. Spiegel.

Isn't it true that you,
as part of your practice,

sexually assault your patients
and currently,

you're being sued by two
of your patients

for malpractice suits

for sexually assaulting
young girls?

- No, that's not true.
Faye, you know that.

- Introduce yourself now.
- I'm Faye Yager.

- What I would like to know
is why this woman--

she is playing judge, jury

by herself, taking the law
into her own hands

and affecting the lives
of innocent children--

is permitted to just do this
and get away with it.

- Do what?
- Do what?

Protect children?

The court system certainly
isn't protecting children.

- Take the place of the system

that's designed
to help and to intervene.

- But he ticked Faye off,
and that's when she stood up

and started screaming.

- Did you forget
about my child?

My child was taken from me
when she was three years old

and given to a child molester.

- She just had enough of him,
you know,

had enough of him,
what he was saying.

- You are lying.

You raped your child,
and you know you did.

- Oh, well, I--

- You're a rapist.
You rapist.

You raped your child. You know
you raped your child.

And that was it.

We were sued for $5 million.

You know, it was what Faye
said, but we all got sued.

You just can't say
what you want to say

or do what you want to do,

whether you think
it's right or wrong.

- Faye got us
in trouble always.

I love you, Faye
but, for God's sakes, shut up.

- You know, we kept
telling her,

you got to tone it down.

You have to--like,
we can't say these things.

And she just--it got worse.
It just got worse.

- Too much.
Way too much.

- She was doing things
in Atlanta.

We were doing things,
and a lot of times,

we couldn't keep up
with what she was doing,

you know?
- She wouldn't tell us.

I was adamant that we had
to know it was a real case.

My fear was, mess up one time,
and your credibility's gone.

But Faye stopped doing
some things

the way it needed to be done.

- And as far as
helping moving families,

it took about three months
before we said we could do it.

We would verify
the court records,

and we had social workers

verify all
the medical records.

And then after
we all got together

at our MARC meetings
and talked about it...

- And we talked
before we would do it.

- And decide
what we were going to do,

then we decided
we will take this case.

- And she said
she's going to call here.

OK.

- For Faye, it was
just real quick, you know?

As soon as you got the call,

let's put him in hiding,
you know?

Hit the--
you know, get on the bus

or whatever you're gonna do.
I'll be there, you know.

Wear the color red.
Put a daisy in your hat.

I don't know
what she would say.

- She was able to create
a perception

that, if you didn't
go on the run,

that, uh, you were
harming your child,

that it would be immoral
not to go on the run.

- There were people
that she was helping

that didn't have the evidence
that this is real,

that these children
are at risk.

That stopped
being a part of her MO,

and we couldn't afford it.

- When you hear a story,

how do you know if they're
telling the truth?

- If you've ever been
in that situation,

I mean, you can
look them in the eye,

and you know.

- It put us all in jeopardy.

- We just couldn't carry on
what we were doing like that.

And she wasn't going to change.

Faye was Faye.

- We wrote a letter
and said, "We're sorry,

"but we can't be associated
with you anymore."

"Please don't use
the MARC name."

er,

I got very concerned.

A father contacted me
and said

that he had two boys
that he knew

were being abused
by their mother

and the group of people

the mother
was associating with.

The father
went into great detail

about how he had found
the perfect person

to help the children.

She is an expert in this.

And I even have a video of when
she was interviewing my boys.

And I said, "You do?"

- There comes a point in time
you see a piece of paper

and a pen scratching out
a crucifix.

- I said, "Wait a minute,
what's going on here?"

- What'd they do?

- Faye Yager has a dark theory
about child abuse.

- Do any of you have
any knowledge

of the concept
of the worship of Satan?

- She claims that much
of the child abuse

reported in the United States

can be blamed
on satanic cults.

- Exhibit 83 has
some clear satanic symbols.

- All of these children
have been subjected

to some form of abuse:

emotional, physical, sexual,
ritualistic, satanic.

I don't think
that's in question.

- Your daddy
believes in what?

- The devil.