Chasing UFOs (2012–…): Season 1, Episode 4 - UFO Landing Zone? - full transcript
One particular home video has the Chasing UFOs team in hot pursuit of the truth in Roswell, N.M.
NARRATOR: This time on Chasing
UFOs A mysterious video of what
some believe is a UFO crashing
at a military base takes the
team to New Mexico in
a hunt for the truth.
Ted Loman: We are being visited
by a highly technologically
advanced intelligence.
Who they are, and
why are they here?
I can't answer those questions.
NARRATOR: But their search for
answers leads them to an even
bigger question: Is there a link
between the military and UFO
encounters including the
Roswell crash in 1947?
Erin Ryder: What
the hell was that?
NARRATOR: Chasing
down leads, Ryder,
Ben and James learn of a man who
says he was a part of a secret
military unit that cleared
wreckage of downed UFOs.
Wayne Mattson: The
occupant wasn't human.
NARRATOR: In a race to
investigate these claims,
the team digs for
answers in Roswell,
where they make an
incredible discovery.
Erin Ryder: It looks
like it's moving.
Ryder for Ben and James.
I just spotted something.
James Fox: What is that?
Look! Look!
Erin Ryder: Oh, my God.
James Fox: Look at this!
Maybe Mattson: What we have
here is not an earthy craft.
Ben McGee: Did you see that?
There's usually a more
conventional explanation for
unidentified things that
people are seeing if you take
the time to look for them.
Erin Ryder: For the first time
in my life I'm caught believing
that the possibility of
UFOs is all too real.
James Fox: For me to be out
here looking for evidence,
this is it.
This is what I live for.
This is what I've
been dreaming about.
Erin Ryder: Oh my God!
James Fox: Wow.
James Fox: Guys, I am really
excited about New Mexico.
Erin Ryder: I am too, because
this area is really rich
in UFO sightings.
We're heading to the town of
Alamogordo, which is home to
the Holloman Air Force Base
and White Sands Missile Range.
And what's really
interesting is,
just a hundred miles east
is the town of Roswell
and that is the site of the most
famous UFO incident in history.
We're here because of a video
given to us by a legendary UFO
enthusiast Ted Loman.
It shows what some believe to be
a UFO crashing into the desert.
Right here I have the
supposed UFO crash
at White Sands Missile Base.
It's a white hot
elliptical object.
It actually takes a bounce,
gets airborne again,
and then eventually.
Ben McGee: It explodes.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
James Fox: As someone who
knows the UFO community,
there's two camps.
Basically, there are some that
believe that this is bona fide,
official footage of a
crashed flying saucer.
James Fox: And there are others
that believe it was just an
errant missile at
White Sands New Mexico.
As someone who's investigated
UFOs for nearly twenty years,
I find this footage
really compelling.
This object hits the
ground and skips.
Clearly it's shaped like a disc.
Ben McGee: The fact that it's
leaving a contrail to me says
missile.
It's burning something,
which is propelling it.
There are UFOs out there that
people are seeing meaning that
they're unidentified
flying objects.
But that does not mean that
they're extra terrestrial.
There's usually a more
conventional explanation for
the things that people
see up in the sky,
even if they can't explain them.
In this case, James thinks he
sees a saucer, I see a missile.
James Fox: It skips
like a pancake would.
Ben McGee: Sure, but if that's
attached to the thing that is
actually making the bounce.
James Fox: Are missiles
shaped like a pencil or
are they shaped like a pancake?
Ben McGee: In profile,
they look the same.
James Fox: Yeah, but they
don't bounce like a pancake.
Erin Ryder: Hey,
you two play nice.
James Fox: Well I'm just saying.
Erin Ryder: I'm not convinced
one way or the other.
If this isn't a
missile, what is it?
Ben McGee: Interesting question.
James Fox: I am very
interested to meet Ted Loman.
Ben McGee: Me too.
James Fox: I want to find
out who gave this to him,
and what he was told about it.
Erin Ryder: Ted Loman is a
self-proclaimed ufologist who
said he mysteriously
received the video in 1997.
I want to find out two things.
Where he got it, and what
the hell we're looking
at in this video.
Thank you so much
for meeting us.
Ted Loman: Oh, you're welcome.
Ben McGee: I was hoping you
could give us a little clarity
on what the video
is, where you got it,
and what you think it means.
Ted Loman: It came in
the mail anonymously.
Ted Loman: I can't come from the
mind of the person that sent it,
but I would say
that it was leaked.
If you watch the clip, it comes
in at about a thirty degree
angle, and the camera holds
it in mid-frame all the way.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
James Fox: Like it
was on a tripod,
like they knew it was coming?
Ted Loman: It had to be set on
a tripod on an angle, so, to me,
it's a provocative tape.
It does something like
we've never seen before.
If you were to take a stick
that was shaped like a missile,
and you were to throw it down
on the same angle on a hard
surface, it would probably twist
and turn and stay close to
the ground.
If you were to take a Frisbee,
and throw it on a hard ground,
it would hit that ground and
leave at basically the same
angle that it came in.
If it is a rocket, find me
a video tape of a rocket.
Ben McGee: Oh yeah.
Erin Ryder: Right, right.
Ted Loman: That was
shot out in White Sands.
Ben McGee: They're not
normally built to bounce.
Ted Loman: Ok. And so, the
question, is this an alien
craft?
I say that we are being visited
by a highly technologically
advanced intelligence.
Who they are, and
why are they here?
I can't answer those questions.
James Fox: He did make the
analogy, very similar to mine.
Erin Ryder: This is true.
James Fox: I said
pancake and pencil.
I think he said,
what was the word?
Erin Ryder: Frisbee.
James Fox: Yeah, like a Frisbee.
Ben McGee: Yeah, a Frisbee
or a rock skipping.
James Fox: Yeah, or
a rocket, you know?
I really enjoyed getting Ted
Loman's perspective on this.
He clearly sides with me.
This thing was
shaped like a disc.
Not a pencil or a missile.
So sorry Ben, but until you
can show me a pancake shaped
missile?
It's a disc.
Ben McGee: I don't
care what Ted says,
this thing looks
like a missile to me.
James Fox: It's not a missile.
Look. It bounces.
Ben McGee: I agree with Ted that
this is an unidentified flying
object, but I don't agree that
this has to be extra terrestrial
and I think there's a more
conventional explanation for it.
Erin Ryder: Will you
two ever agree on this?
Ben McGee: Well yeah, as
soon as we get enough data.
James Fox: I think what we need
to do is get in touch with a
missile expert and put
this story to rest.
Ben McGee: Well, of course.
I'm not a missile expert.
James Fox: I'm not a
missile expert either.
I'm not claiming to
be a missile expert.
Ben McGee: We can all agree
this is not a normal thing.
Erin Ryder: No. That's not
normal.
Ben McGee: I agree with that.
We all agree with that.
James Fox: To put this debate
to rest once and for all,
Ben and I are going to go
meet with a retired lieutenant
colonel who tested
missiles at White Sands.
With this guy's background, I'm
hoping he can shed some light on
what we're looking at.
While Ben and I do that, Ryder's
going to look for a good vantage
point over the valley
where apparently people
are seeing UFOs.
This is what we want
some answers to.
Ben McGee: Yes.
Wayne Mattson: Ok.
Ben McGee: Our friendly debate.
James Fox: Yes.
James Fox: Coming in,
hits the ground once.
What are we looking at?
Wayne Mattson: It doesn't look
like any missile I've ever seen.
Never seen a missile like that.
James Fox: In all your years
with the United States Air
Force, you've never
seen anything like that.
Wayne Mattson: No.
James Fox: Lieutenant Colonel
Mattson tested missiles for
the military.
If he's saying this
thing is not a missile,
then it's not a missile.
Wayne Mattson: Coming in like
that, where it attempts to
bounce, I've never seen
any rocket do that.
James Fox: He's pointing out
the same thing that I've been
talking about.
This thing comes in and
it skips like a stone.
James Fox: Which indicates to
me and it indicates to him that
it's not shaped like a
conventional missile.
James Fox: And he's basically
confirming that for me.
Ben McGee: What are you beliefs
about unidentified aerial
phenomenon in the area?
Wayne Mattson: Unidentified
flying objects.
I believe in them because
I've seen them in flight.
Ben McGee: Really?
Wayne Mattson: Yes.
Ben McGee: Wow.
James Fox: What
did they look like?
What was your experience like?
Wayne Mattson: Well, we were
returning from a mission in
Southeast Asia and
the radar hollered and
said "Are you holding hands?"
meaning you got another
bird in formation.
The answer was a negative.
We were a single ship.
So we did a climbing right hand
turn and when we rolled out we
looked up and there was two
full moons, side by side.
Till the right hand moon
rotated about 90 degrees,
became disk shape, and took off.
James Fox: Lieutenant Colonel
Mattson is telling us
he saw a flying saucer.
It's amazing.
Wayne Mattson: And, you
know, we said "Well,
don't know what it is, but
sure as heck isn't ours."
Ben McGee: So, it was as though
the object was following like
this and then you saw it on
edge and it just took off?
Wayne Mattson: And in a
matter of seconds it was gone.
James Fox: So you're saying to
me, as a lieutenant colonel,
is that you think that
flying saucers are real.
Wayne Mattson: Yes.
Ben McGee: So James is
really sold on this story,
but it made me question whether
or not the lieutenant is biased.
Obviously, he believes he saw an
alien spacecraft up in the sky,
and maybe that influenced
his analysis of the footage.
James Fox: This is clearly a
hotbed area that's had unusual
activity reported for decades.
James Fox: Ryder found a
really good vantage point.
We can go and survey the
area, and see if we can see
anything for ourselves.
Erin Ryder: Wow.
James Fox: Directly
west is White Sands.
And apparently Holloman Air
Force Base uses White Sands for
testing as well.
Erin Ryder: So they are
almost one in the same.
James Fox: Exactly,
and you know what?
This is, like, one of the best
places to get a good vantage
point of the base.
Erin Ryder: All right guys,
tonight is just all about trying
to record or capture any of the
strange activity people have
reported seeing at these bases.
Ben McGee: Yeah, so, you know,
Holloman's is going to be right
about over there.
And then White Sands is
the whole shooting match,
I mean it's miles long.
Erin Ryder: I'm going to
turn the radio scanner on.
See if we can pick up anything
from Holloman or White Sands.
Voice Radio: Pretty
time critical.
Maintain radar contact.
Erin Ryder: I got them.
Ben McGee: Hey. Looks like we
got someone on the runway maybe.
Erin Ryder: Yeah?
Ben McGee: It just lifted off.
Erin Ryder: Oh yeah. There it
goes.
Ben McGee: Yeah, see 'em?
May be a twin-prop.
Erin Ryder: C'mon now,
let's see if I can get him.
Ben McGee: You can hear him now.
Erin Ryder: In the air, that
absolutely looks like a plane.
Really no mistaking that as
something unidentified if you
kept eyes on it.
Ben McGee: See?
Look. Look look look look.
As the angle changes, it would
seem like lights are appearing
and disappearing.
I mean, this is why I think
so many UFO sightings are just
people who aren't familiar
with looking at aircraft.
Erin Ryder: Shh Shh Shh.
They're talking about us!
Ben McGee: What?
Voice Radio: Getting a reading
from the rocket park
Erin Ryder: Oh my God. Someone
was communicating that they
were seeing something up here
and then it went dead.
James Fox: Yeah, like they
don't know we're here.
It's like going to Area 51 and
thinking they're not detecting
you sitting on the
perimeter of the base.
Ben McGee: Yeah, we're going
to need to get higher up.
I'm having a hard time picking
out the base structure
from here.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Higher vantage
point would definitely give us
better access to the air space
above the base.
Was the traffic control
transmission we overheard just a
coincidence or was someone from
one of those military bases
tracking us?
Either way, we need to continue
on because we're just barely
scratching the surface of
this New Mexico investigation.
You know, I really think that
we need to track down somebody
who's got experience,
not only in the military,
but working with, you
know, objects like this.
We came down here looking
for answers on this video,
that some say is a UFO
crashing into a New Mexico
air force base.
Dee Gragg's worked at Holloman
Air force Base for 29 years.
If anyone knows what's going
on with the military out here,
it's him.
James Fox: Can you describe a
little bit about your experience
at Holloman?
Dee Gragg: I was a senior
analyst and most of my
responsibility was to analyse
how well the ejection seats in
the crew modules worked.
To see if the crew would
be injured, killed,
or if they would be safe.
James Fox: When you were there,
did you hear any talk about a
landing at Holloman Air Force
Base from a flying saucer?
Dee Gragg: The one I know about
occurred in February of 1955.
President Eisenhower flew
from Washington to Holloman.
He landed on the
north south runway.
There were two saucers.
One was about 200 feet
in front of Air Force One.
The other one
stayed about 300 feet up.
There was a ramp that
came out of the UFO.
Eisenhower walked up the ramp,
shook hands with somebody and
then went inside and he was
inside for about 45 minutes.
James Fox: Now, do you
know what you're saying sounds
absolutely nuts?
Dee Gragg: Does it really?
James Fox: It does. No offense.
I don't want you to take
offense to what I'm saying.
Dee Gragg: I never take offense.
James Fox: I'm not
trying to attack you.
I'm a firm believer
that UFOs are real.
I'm just saying that.
Dee Gragg: No. No. I understand.
James Fox: I mean that's
just a little bit like, woah.
You know what I mean?
Ben McGee: You are not going
to get me to believe that the
government is going to allow
the leader of the free world to
waltz by himself, unescorted,
onto an alien spacecraft,
that by all accounts is spewing
radiation as people have
described.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Can you tell us where
Holloman Air Force Base is?
Dee Gragg: Holloman Air Force
Base is just a little bit south
of us.
Erin Ryder: Dee went on to tell
us that people still report
seeing these strange objects
around Holloman and
White Sands to this day.
Which is great
because that's exactly what
we're here looking for.
We're heading up into the
mountains so that we can get
eyes on these military bases.
Because I want to see whatever
these locals say they're seeing
around here.
James Fox: This is going to
be the best vantage point
Erin Ryder: Yeah, look at the
view just from here.
James Fox: The things we do for
vantage points.
Erin Ryder: Getting really
steep through here.
James Fox: Watch out
for the thorny plants.
Major cactus over here.
Erin Ryder: This is not a
friendly terrain right now. Ow.
James Fox: Hey guys, we have
a clearing up to our left.
Erin Ryder: Alright. This looks
good. Nice vantage.
Ben McGee: Look at that
view Erin Ryder: Well,
I'm going to start
setting up the telescope with
the video camera.
We'll start getting that trained
on the skies above Holloman.
Ben, you've got
the video camera.
Ben McGee: Yup.
Erin Ryder: James, why don't we
give you the radio scanner and
you can be listening for any.
James Fox: Great.
Erin Ryder: Chatter
coming from the base.
James Fox: Holloman is
dead ahead of us, right?
Ben McGee: Yup Big, dark area.
Erin Ryder: Alright, well, I can
stay here and man this if you
guys want to head up.
James Fox: Yeah. Yeah.
That story about Eisenhower and
the UFO's at Holloman.
This guy in the mid 80s, who
worked for the Air Force's
archive department.
Ben McGee: Yeah?
James Fox: Who claimed he
actually saw the filmed footage
taken at Holloman Air Force Base
of a landing of a flying saucer
and it sounds outrageous but the
interesting thing is that this
guy, who described what
this footage looked like,
was killed in a car crash
with him and his wife.
So basically, the only known
person that saw the footage is
now dead.
Ben McGee: Wow. We're not going
to go any farther this way.
The world drops off.
Mother nature took a giant bite
out of this mountain. Wow.
Yeah, let's go up this way.
Erin Ryder: Pretty overcast out.
Not exactly the
greatest sky watching.
Haven't seen anything that
even resembles strange flights.
Quiet over the base.
Ryder for Ben and James
Ben McGee: Go ahead.
Erin Ryder: Hey guys, I just
wanted to check in and let you
know that I have eyes on the
Holloman runway and I did some
scouting around with the scope
and nothing out of the ordinary
just yet.
Ben McGee: Copy that, Ryder.
We're about half way up at a
much better vantage on our way
to an even better vantage.
Erin Ryder: Alright, well, while
you're up there let me know what
you guys see.
Ben McGee: Alright,
we'll check in later.
Over and out.
Erin Ryder: Copy that.
Nothing going on at
the base right now.
What the EXPLETIVE was that?
What the hell was that?
Ryder for Ben and James.
I just spotted something.
A light in the sky
came out of nowhere.
I'm going to try to get
a better vantage point. Ow.
James Fox: Ryder, come in.
Over.
Ryder....Be careful.
Erin Ryder: Oh, EXPLETIVE.
James Fox: Ryder, where are you?
Ryder, it's Ben and James.
Are you OK? Over.
Ben McGee: That's not good.
EXPLETIVE. Did she fall?
James Fox: I don't know. Ryder,
come in. Over.
Erin Ryder: Hey guys.
I just tried to chase what I
saw, get a better vantage point.
It disappeared right behind this
mountain that's just
south of us.
No view of it at all.
I actually almost stumbled
off this ledge over here.
Ben McGee: What'd it look like?
Over.
Erin Ryder: It was like
an orange, glowing light.
Thought it was a plane at first.
Looked again.
The thing was moving way,
way too fast to be a plane.
Unfortunately I didn't have time
to get the telescope there so
I thought I'd book after it, at
least get better eyes on it.
But no luck.
Unfortunately, whatever
I saw is gone now.
James Fox: We've got a
mountain blocking anything from
the south
so it would take hours to climb.
It's not going to
happen tonight. Over.
Erin Ryder: Don't worry I'll
be over here picking thorns and
cactus needles out
of my entire body.
James Fox: Copy.
Erin Ryder: Oh, that's smart.
That's smart.
After what I saw last night,
I'm starting to buy into this
connection between UFOs and
the military bases around here.
So, we're heading into Roswell
to speak with an ex-military
official who says he has
first-hand knowledge about
this connection.
James Fox: So there is this
guy, Sargent Clifford Stone,
that lives in Roswell.
He apparently was involved in
the recovery of several crashed
flying saucers and alien bodies.
Ben McGee: Going to
meet Clifford Stone.
I'm excited because this is a
man with a military background
who claims to have been on
a physical recovery team.
So this is the guy whose eyes I
want to be viewing through when
thinking about what sort of
physical investigation
we want to do.
Erin Ryder: Can you tell us a
little about your background in
the military?
Clifford Stone: I served
22 and a half years in
the United States army.
During that time I got
training in law enforcement,
and I also got training
in chemical, radiological,
and biological warfare.
During the 22 and a half years,
there were approximately 12
incidents in which I was
involved in recoveries.
Erin Ryder: And you're not
talking about terrestrial craft.
You're talking about.
Clifford Stone: I'm talking
about craft that did not
originate on this planet.
The first time I went
out on a recovery,
I was told to pick up my
radiological equipment because
we had a Soviet craft that
crashed and it may have an
atomic device on it.
Ben McGee: Well, when you
approach a site then what did
the scene look like?
Clifford Stone: Well, at
that point all I see is the
floodlights and I'm trying to
figure out what the craft is.
One guy, which I always
called the colonel,
he came up and said
"You're elected. You're going".
James Fox: Was there anyone
else around the craft?
Clifford Stone: Oh yeah, armed
guards around the craft but
they're not doing anything.
I'd say it was about like 30
foot in diameter.
Looked like some kind
of metallic, dull grey.
And I looked out there and
I saw what I saw and I said
"Sir, what the hell is that?
That's not a Soviet air craft.
And he says "You're not
being paid to ask questions.
You do the mission."
They told me to go
toward the craft.
James Fox: By yourself?
Clifford Stone: Mmhm. When I
got to the burn mark, off to
the side, there was like a
kidney shaped hatch open.
And the occupant was
lying outside the hatch.
Appeared to be dead.
And I knew that, uh, that
was not, that wasn't human.
James Fox: Did you
ever have it confirmed?
Clifford Stone: They
don't confirm that.
Erin Ryder: It seems
really emotional for you.
What are the feelings you feel
just by telling this again?
Clifford Stone: You
relive it in your mind.
You see it.
Erin Ryder: Do you believe an
extra-terrestrial craft crashed
at Roswell?
Clifford Stone: No, ma'am, I
know an extra terrestrial
craft crashed here at Roswell.
I know that for a fact.
It hit, tried to
take back off again,
and landed about 4
miles away.
James Fox: You know
it's interesting,
I didn't make the connection,
but you know the video that we
have where the object
hits the ground, impacts,
and then flies back off again?
Erin Ryder: Similar to
what he's describing.
Ben McGee: Presuming what
Clifford Stone is saying is
true, there has got to be
evidence left from any of these
recovery operations.
Either of the impact
itself or whatever it was,
or of the operation itself
which was extensive.
James Fox: As a geologist, you
can survey an area and know
where the most likely places
where debris would be?
Ben McGee: You can know where
nature will tend to collect
things.
So we are going to meet this
geologist, Frank Kimbler,
who's gone out to the alleged
Roswell crash site and has done
a geological survey and has
pulled out what he thinks may be
the first scientific evidence
of extra-terrestrial debris.
Frank?
James Fox: I can't believe we're
here.
Erin Ryder: So this is the spot?
Frank Kimbler: Absolutely.
If you take a look out that way
and then almost all the way down
towards the windmill is the
extent of the debris field and
then it's several
hundred yards wide.
James Fox: This exact location
is something I've talked about
and I've researched for years.
For me to be standing to where
I believe an alien spaceship
crashed back in 1947 is
unbelievably exciting.
James Fox: Holy EXPLETIVE.
Look at that.
For me to be standing to where
I believe an alien spaceship
crashed back in 1947 is
unbelievably exciting.
Erin Ryder: So Frank, why don't
you tell us a little about the
research you did and what
you ultimately found.
Frank Kimbler: Well, when I
first moved out to Roswell,
I went down to the
international UFO museum,
and I started going through the
museum and everything and I'm
going "well, there's
no physical evidence".
And then I says I need to put
some science behind this and use
some of my geology and see what
I can find and nobody wanted to
tell me where the location was.
Erin Ryder: And what exactly
do you mean by location?
Frank Kimbler: There's this
debris field and it's out by
the windmill and that was
what I honed in for.
That is what I was
trying to find.
So, I had to do some research to
find that and after I found the
location, I started pulling out
the aerial photographs and
I noticed this area right here
and it shows up as kind of a
squared-off burn area,
which is unusual,
because they usually
don't square off,
they're usually kind of curved.
And what struck me unique was
the fact that the description of
the debris field was that it was
several hundred yards wide
and it was three
quarters of a mile long
and I'm
going "oh my gosh".
It just so happens that this
thing is sitting smack dab in
the middle of what
the description was.
Erin Ryder: So what would be the
purpose of burning an area like
this?
Frank Kimbler: Destroy evidence.
Ben McGee: It'd be like the
equivalent of throwing bleach on
a crime scene?
Frank Kimbler: That's right and
I started looking at this and I
go "You know what, I'm going to
center my hunting area kind of
like in the center of that"
and that's what I did.
I drove out there with a
metal detector, a good one.
I wanted to look at the low
areas where the runoff was.
Typical geology things.
And, as the sun was going
down, in an anthill,
there was this shiny
little piece of metal.
I about had a heart attack.
Frank Kimbler: And this
is the material I found.
Erin Ryder: Oh wow.
Frank Kimbler: Some
of them are very hard.
Some of them are
a little bit soft.
So, there might be two or three
different kinds of metallic
things that are out there.
Frank Kimbler: If
you've ever seen, like,
aluminium cans out
in the boonies,
aluminium cans don't
look like this.
James Fox: Frank just pulled
out little pieces of metal which
could very likely be from
a spaceship that crashed in
Roswell New Mexico in 1947.
What if what this guy has
is from another world?
The implications of that
are earth shattering.
Frank Kimbler: They might
have got the big stuff,
but that tiny little stuff gets
wedged down in the cracks and I
think in any UFO crash site any
place in the world that people
say they've cleaned it up
and there's nothing there,
I say is a bunch of bologna.
Ben McGee: Frank has used solid
field science to help him find
what may be pieces
of metal debris.
However, before I am going to
jump to any conclusions about
whether or not the metal is
terrestrial or extra-terrestrial
in nature, we have
got to get more data.
We've got to do more analysis on
more of those fragments to see
if it's consistent.
Erin Ryder: Is the snow
going to hinder us at all?
Ben McGee: Well, it certainly
impedes the line of sight.
That's good it's on a slope.
Got a natural grade.
Erin Ryder: Okay.
So Frank, this is....
Ben McGee: This is ground zero?
Frank Kimbler: You're in it.
This is where it hit.
Right here.
It probably came in
like this and skipped.
James Fox: So this is the
point of impact right here?
Frank Kimbler: Yeah, right here
near the top of the hill and
right down through the valley.
James Fox: While there's been
decades of speculation as to
what exactly crashed
at Roswell, New Mexico,
the one thing that everyone
agrees on is that there was a
debris field that impacted the
site, skipped, and kept going,
and eventually crashed
in a different location,
very similar to the object we
saw crashing in the video at
White Sands.
Erin Ryder: Where was the last
place that you found some of
the debris?
Frank Kimbler: Just to the right
of the base of the hill and then
there was some of it that was
up this way as well, so this is,
we're in the middle of
where we found this.
Erin Ryder: So what
do you think Ben?
Ben McGee: I'd say that we set
up a survey grid and fan out as
far as we can get.
Erin Ryder: So the runoff would
take some of the debris and
wash it down here.
Ben McGee: Yup. Send it on down
with time.
Erin Ryder: Well, we're losing
daylight so why don't we, uh,
drop our gear and
start surveying?
Frank Kimbler: Start Looking.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Let's get to
it. Alright.
All metal since we don't know
what these things are made of.
Right now we're near a lot of
metal obviously because of
our gear.
Somewhere around
this area right here. OK.
While they're getting
the area surveyed,
let's head up to
the latest hot spot.
How's it going over there James?
James Fox: I could stay out here
for weeks because I know there's
debris out here.
Erin Ryder: I seriously feel
like a prospector prospecting
for gold right now or I feel
like a 65 year old man on the
beach in my speedo.
James Fox: This is
like my Disneyland.
I swear to you.
The fact that we have two
geologists out here with us to
help guide us through the
process and the fact that Frank
has already found debris
is just so exciting to me.
Frank Kimbler: Wow. James
Fox: Got something?
Frank Kimbler: Yeah, you do.
James Fox: I got something!
Erin Ryder: What do you got?
What do you got?
James Fox: I don't know
but I got something!
Come on over. Listen.
There's something there.
Erin Ryder: Absolutely
James Fox: We don't know what
it is but I got a solid hit.
Frank Kimbler: It's right there
and we have no idea what it is.
Ben McGee: Look at that.
Frank Kimbler: It's just there.
James Fox: It could
be something from,
it could be debris
from the crash.
It could be debris from the
military that were cleaning up
the craft.
I mean, you know?
We're out here at the crash
site, and I found something.
I don't know what it is yet
but we're going to find out.
So it's in there pretty good.
Frank Kimbler: So see if you
can slide it out Ben McGee: It's
buried, huh?
Erin Ryder: It's a lot
bigger than we anticipated.
James Fox: Oh, yeah.
Erin Ryder: Careful Ben
McGee: Don't cut yourself.
James Fox: Wait
it's starting to,
this is a big piece you guys.
Erin Ryder: Look at that.
James Fox: Woah. Look at that.
What is that?
It's very exciting
that I found anything.
I mean, we're in the
middle of nowhere, right?
I mean, even if it was just
something that the military
left, that in
itself is exciting.
Frank Kimbler: It's metallic. It
looks like rusty metal.
Erin Ryder: But this
isn't a Coke can.
This isn't a, you know.
James Fox: Is it possible that
that's something left over from
the military from 1947?
That they were there. I mean, is
it possible that it's that old?
Frank Kimbler: Absolutely.
I doubt if it was
wind blown out here.
Ben McGee: I don't care how
strong your dust devil...you're
not going to send this 100
miles [160.9 kilometers].
Erin Ryder: What do
you think it is Ben?
Ben McGee: Oh heck I don't.
On it's face?
It's evidence that
something happened here.
I mean, it's confirmatory.
Something put this here.
Frank Kimbler: That's right.
It's a piece of metal
from somebody.
Ben McGee: And the kicker
is we're on top of a hill.
Things don't roll uphill.
So the fact that this is on top
of the hill, something, someone,
some group, some activity had
to come up on top of this and
deposit it. Right?
Frank Kimbler: Absolutely.
I agree with that 100%.
Erin Ryder: Well let's try to
collect as much evidence as we
can with us on site and move on.
Ben McGee: Well, we found one.
Erin Ryder: Yeah, if we're
picking up stuff up here then
there's got to be more out here.
James Fox: It feels good. I'm
sorry but it does.
James Fox: You get that moment
where it's like "alright,
this is really exciting, I don't
want to get too excited" But
just the fact that you
found something manmade?
Out in the middle of nowhere?
That in itself is exciting.
Erin Ryder: Thanks Frank.
James Fox: Bye bye.
Erin Ryder: It's getting
late and Frank has to leave,
but we're at the
Roswell crash site.
We can't just up and leave in
the middle of an investigation,
so if it takes all night, we are
going to stay to try to find any
clue that can help us explain
what happened here in 1947.
James Fox: As a geologist, where
do you think the debris would
most likely be if there
were some debris left.
Ben McGee: Nature would run
it down to the lowest point.
James Fox: The lowest point.
So you're talking about
down in here.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Right down
in this ridge area.
The whole valley.
James Fox: Alright,
let's head down.
Erin Ryder: What's that up
ahead? Right here.
Ben McGee: Ant hill.
James Fox: Let's check it out
This is what Frank
Kimbler: said.
He said that he went with
anthills and animal rooms.
Ben McGee: Palaeontologists
use it all the time.
Move that curved
thing right there. Yeah.
Is that a stick?
Erin Ryder: Oh, it's actually
a little bone fragment.
Ben McGee: See?
That's what I'm talking about.
These ants will pick up
low-density stuff and then
they'll bring it all here.
James Fox: What are
they using it for?
Ben McGee: To build
up these hills.
So instead of heavier
little pebbles,
they'll use bones or little
flakes of light metal.
That's so cool.
This would be a
great thing to sieve.
Erin Ryder: Do you want
me to get the sifter out?
James Fox: Yeah. I mean, this is
our most likely spot you guys.
Right?
Ben McGee: Well, let the
ants do the work for you.
Erin Ryder: There's two in here.
Ben McGee: Cool. Great.
Yeah, the grounds frozen.
So we're really really only
going to get the surface stuff.
So just look for
something metallic.
Erin Ryder: Here James. Why
don't you hold this?
I'm going to kind of sweep the
area a little bit more with the
metal detector.
Ben McGee: OK Erin
Ryder: So guys,
don't stop doing what
you're doing here.
James Fox: Division of labor.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Divide and
conquer.
Ben McGee: That's right.
James Fox: What is that? That
piece right there.
Ben McGee: That's a rock.
James Fox: It is?
Ben McGee: Yup, I see
what you mean though.
Yeah, it's got a luster.
James Fox: Yeah, it does.
Ben McGee: But that's
geological to me.
There are minerals
that look like that.
Erin Ryder: Is this good?
James.
Ben McGee: It's a rock.
James Fox: It is a rock, ok.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Hey James
James Fox: Yeah?
Erin Ryder: You're kind of a
pro with this metal detector.
Could you come over here?
James Fox: Yeah Ben McGee: Yeah,
I don't see anything here but
rock and bone.
Erin Ryder: Is this
just the ice, though?
James Fox: It could be the ice.
Watch.
I'm going to move this ice.
I'm going to try to move this
piece and see if you still get
some readings.
Ben McGee: You guys got
something over there?
Erin Ryder: Maybe. It's really
strange.
James Fox: It could be
something. Pretty solid earth.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Look at this.
Try right there.
James Fox: I mean, I'll tell
you, if I had it my way,
I'd spend 6 months out here.
Every night, every day, because
you know there's something out
here.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
James Fox: Whoa, look at that.
Look at this you guys!
Erin Ryder: What?
Ben McGee: What?
James Fox: Look!
Erin Ryder: Shut up.
James Fox: Look! That's a piece
of metal.
Erin Ryder: Shut up.
James Fox: Look at it. This is
not rusty like the other stuff.
Look at this!
Look at this! Holy EXPLETIVE!
Found something.
I mean, I can't believe that.
We found something you guys.
Ben McGee: That's a different
class of object than the other
things we found.
James Fox: It
certainly is, isn't it?
Ben McGee: Yep.
James Fox: This is so cool! This
has been in the ground for a
while, right? Come on.
Ben McGee: The suspense, man.
James Fox: I mean, come on,
what does this look like to you?
Erin Ryder: I don't know.
Ben McGee: It looks like
a piece of metal so far.
James Fox: How far
down is this you guys?
I'm going down.
Erin Ryder: Oh my God.
James Fox: Woah!
Erin Ryder: Oh my God.
James Fox: It's a military
button! Look! Look! Look!
Erin Ryder: What the EXPLETIVE.
Ben McGee: Holy EXPLETIVE. Is
that Air Force?
Erin Ryder: I see
wings on the top.
James Fox: Look. It's four.
It's stars.
Ben McGee: This is a
very identifiable symbol.
James Fox: You guys. This is
consistent with what I heard.
They had the soldiers.
Ben McGee: On hands and knees.
James Fox: On hands and knees
and they were literally combing
through this entire area so they
could have easily lost buttons.
I mean.
Ben McGee: Oh yeah, how else do
you just randomly lose a button?
Not if you're just
walking around.
James Fox: You're not going
to be walking upright, right?
You know what I mean?
This is like, this gives
me chills finding this.
Ben McGee: This says not just
people were here but
military was here.
This is like from a coat
or a Erin Ryder: Jacket.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
James Fox: It has a symbol
on it so we can identify it.
Ben McGee: We can identify it.
That's why I'm so excited.
James Fox: Does that mean we
can know what regiment or what.
Ben McGee: Yes. They're unique
per unit.
James Fox: Wow.
Erin Ryder: I'm
no button expert,
but it looks like military.
Ben McGee: Well, it's got, yeah.
It looks like air force.
James Fox: Army, air corps.
You never know what
you're going to find.
Ben McGee: I'm blown away. I'll
say that.
James Fox: Don't' ever
underestimate the night
investigation.
Erin Ryder: We headed home to
analyse the most extraordinary
pieces of evidence
from New Mexico.
And the results even
had us surprised.
Our missile expert told
us that in his opinion,
this is not a missile.
Wayne Mattson: It doesn't look
like any missile I've ever seen.
Erin Ryder: So maybe
the theory is right.
Maybe this is a UFO.
James Fox: This is what I've
been saying the whole time.
It looks like a disc,
it behaves like a disc,
and it skips like a disc.
Ben McGee: Ok.
Erin Ryder: This
is not a missile.
From everything we've seen and
heard during this investigation,
I do believe that things are
crashing around New Mexico air
force bases.
Are they alien craft? I can't
say.
But I do believe the military is
going to great lengths to cover
this all up.
This is the piece of metal
that James found at the Roswell
crash site.
James Fox: I got something.
Erin Ryder: That's the
metal under magnification.
We had it analysed.
Unfortunately, didn't turn
anything up out of the ordinary.
Looks like it was
just common tin.
James Fox: The fact that it was
out there indicates at least a
presence of some sort of
activity dating back probably
40, 50, 60 years.
While the piece of metal that
I found didn't turn out to be
extra-terrestrial in origin,
I'm convinced through all my
research; whatever crashed
there was not of this earth.
Erin Ryder: Let me pull
up this right here.
Clear as day, that's the
button that we found at
the Roswell crash site.
This is an official document
that states that our button was
used by the air force.
It was manufactured
from 1947 to 1949.
Ben McGee: It looks like
there were two characters.
Like yeah. This this and that.
Separating the stars.
Before we conducted
this investigation,
I wasn't necessarily convinced
that anything at all had really
happened at Roswell.
This is like from a coat or a
Erin Ryder: Jacket
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
Ben McGee: This says not just
people were here but
military was here.
Certainly now after finding
a button from an air force
personnel coat, I think
something happened there.
And for me to go from not
sure that anything happened to
something happened, was
quite a journey for me,
but that doesn't mean
it had to be aliens.
UFOs A mysterious video of what
some believe is a UFO crashing
at a military base takes the
team to New Mexico in
a hunt for the truth.
Ted Loman: We are being visited
by a highly technologically
advanced intelligence.
Who they are, and
why are they here?
I can't answer those questions.
NARRATOR: But their search for
answers leads them to an even
bigger question: Is there a link
between the military and UFO
encounters including the
Roswell crash in 1947?
Erin Ryder: What
the hell was that?
NARRATOR: Chasing
down leads, Ryder,
Ben and James learn of a man who
says he was a part of a secret
military unit that cleared
wreckage of downed UFOs.
Wayne Mattson: The
occupant wasn't human.
NARRATOR: In a race to
investigate these claims,
the team digs for
answers in Roswell,
where they make an
incredible discovery.
Erin Ryder: It looks
like it's moving.
Ryder for Ben and James.
I just spotted something.
James Fox: What is that?
Look! Look!
Erin Ryder: Oh, my God.
James Fox: Look at this!
Maybe Mattson: What we have
here is not an earthy craft.
Ben McGee: Did you see that?
There's usually a more
conventional explanation for
unidentified things that
people are seeing if you take
the time to look for them.
Erin Ryder: For the first time
in my life I'm caught believing
that the possibility of
UFOs is all too real.
James Fox: For me to be out
here looking for evidence,
this is it.
This is what I live for.
This is what I've
been dreaming about.
Erin Ryder: Oh my God!
James Fox: Wow.
James Fox: Guys, I am really
excited about New Mexico.
Erin Ryder: I am too, because
this area is really rich
in UFO sightings.
We're heading to the town of
Alamogordo, which is home to
the Holloman Air Force Base
and White Sands Missile Range.
And what's really
interesting is,
just a hundred miles east
is the town of Roswell
and that is the site of the most
famous UFO incident in history.
We're here because of a video
given to us by a legendary UFO
enthusiast Ted Loman.
It shows what some believe to be
a UFO crashing into the desert.
Right here I have the
supposed UFO crash
at White Sands Missile Base.
It's a white hot
elliptical object.
It actually takes a bounce,
gets airborne again,
and then eventually.
Ben McGee: It explodes.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
James Fox: As someone who
knows the UFO community,
there's two camps.
Basically, there are some that
believe that this is bona fide,
official footage of a
crashed flying saucer.
James Fox: And there are others
that believe it was just an
errant missile at
White Sands New Mexico.
As someone who's investigated
UFOs for nearly twenty years,
I find this footage
really compelling.
This object hits the
ground and skips.
Clearly it's shaped like a disc.
Ben McGee: The fact that it's
leaving a contrail to me says
missile.
It's burning something,
which is propelling it.
There are UFOs out there that
people are seeing meaning that
they're unidentified
flying objects.
But that does not mean that
they're extra terrestrial.
There's usually a more
conventional explanation for
the things that people
see up in the sky,
even if they can't explain them.
In this case, James thinks he
sees a saucer, I see a missile.
James Fox: It skips
like a pancake would.
Ben McGee: Sure, but if that's
attached to the thing that is
actually making the bounce.
James Fox: Are missiles
shaped like a pencil or
are they shaped like a pancake?
Ben McGee: In profile,
they look the same.
James Fox: Yeah, but they
don't bounce like a pancake.
Erin Ryder: Hey,
you two play nice.
James Fox: Well I'm just saying.
Erin Ryder: I'm not convinced
one way or the other.
If this isn't a
missile, what is it?
Ben McGee: Interesting question.
James Fox: I am very
interested to meet Ted Loman.
Ben McGee: Me too.
James Fox: I want to find
out who gave this to him,
and what he was told about it.
Erin Ryder: Ted Loman is a
self-proclaimed ufologist who
said he mysteriously
received the video in 1997.
I want to find out two things.
Where he got it, and what
the hell we're looking
at in this video.
Thank you so much
for meeting us.
Ted Loman: Oh, you're welcome.
Ben McGee: I was hoping you
could give us a little clarity
on what the video
is, where you got it,
and what you think it means.
Ted Loman: It came in
the mail anonymously.
Ted Loman: I can't come from the
mind of the person that sent it,
but I would say
that it was leaked.
If you watch the clip, it comes
in at about a thirty degree
angle, and the camera holds
it in mid-frame all the way.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
James Fox: Like it
was on a tripod,
like they knew it was coming?
Ted Loman: It had to be set on
a tripod on an angle, so, to me,
it's a provocative tape.
It does something like
we've never seen before.
If you were to take a stick
that was shaped like a missile,
and you were to throw it down
on the same angle on a hard
surface, it would probably twist
and turn and stay close to
the ground.
If you were to take a Frisbee,
and throw it on a hard ground,
it would hit that ground and
leave at basically the same
angle that it came in.
If it is a rocket, find me
a video tape of a rocket.
Ben McGee: Oh yeah.
Erin Ryder: Right, right.
Ted Loman: That was
shot out in White Sands.
Ben McGee: They're not
normally built to bounce.
Ted Loman: Ok. And so, the
question, is this an alien
craft?
I say that we are being visited
by a highly technologically
advanced intelligence.
Who they are, and
why are they here?
I can't answer those questions.
James Fox: He did make the
analogy, very similar to mine.
Erin Ryder: This is true.
James Fox: I said
pancake and pencil.
I think he said,
what was the word?
Erin Ryder: Frisbee.
James Fox: Yeah, like a Frisbee.
Ben McGee: Yeah, a Frisbee
or a rock skipping.
James Fox: Yeah, or
a rocket, you know?
I really enjoyed getting Ted
Loman's perspective on this.
He clearly sides with me.
This thing was
shaped like a disc.
Not a pencil or a missile.
So sorry Ben, but until you
can show me a pancake shaped
missile?
It's a disc.
Ben McGee: I don't
care what Ted says,
this thing looks
like a missile to me.
James Fox: It's not a missile.
Look. It bounces.
Ben McGee: I agree with Ted that
this is an unidentified flying
object, but I don't agree that
this has to be extra terrestrial
and I think there's a more
conventional explanation for it.
Erin Ryder: Will you
two ever agree on this?
Ben McGee: Well yeah, as
soon as we get enough data.
James Fox: I think what we need
to do is get in touch with a
missile expert and put
this story to rest.
Ben McGee: Well, of course.
I'm not a missile expert.
James Fox: I'm not a
missile expert either.
I'm not claiming to
be a missile expert.
Ben McGee: We can all agree
this is not a normal thing.
Erin Ryder: No. That's not
normal.
Ben McGee: I agree with that.
We all agree with that.
James Fox: To put this debate
to rest once and for all,
Ben and I are going to go
meet with a retired lieutenant
colonel who tested
missiles at White Sands.
With this guy's background, I'm
hoping he can shed some light on
what we're looking at.
While Ben and I do that, Ryder's
going to look for a good vantage
point over the valley
where apparently people
are seeing UFOs.
This is what we want
some answers to.
Ben McGee: Yes.
Wayne Mattson: Ok.
Ben McGee: Our friendly debate.
James Fox: Yes.
James Fox: Coming in,
hits the ground once.
What are we looking at?
Wayne Mattson: It doesn't look
like any missile I've ever seen.
Never seen a missile like that.
James Fox: In all your years
with the United States Air
Force, you've never
seen anything like that.
Wayne Mattson: No.
James Fox: Lieutenant Colonel
Mattson tested missiles for
the military.
If he's saying this
thing is not a missile,
then it's not a missile.
Wayne Mattson: Coming in like
that, where it attempts to
bounce, I've never seen
any rocket do that.
James Fox: He's pointing out
the same thing that I've been
talking about.
This thing comes in and
it skips like a stone.
James Fox: Which indicates to
me and it indicates to him that
it's not shaped like a
conventional missile.
James Fox: And he's basically
confirming that for me.
Ben McGee: What are you beliefs
about unidentified aerial
phenomenon in the area?
Wayne Mattson: Unidentified
flying objects.
I believe in them because
I've seen them in flight.
Ben McGee: Really?
Wayne Mattson: Yes.
Ben McGee: Wow.
James Fox: What
did they look like?
What was your experience like?
Wayne Mattson: Well, we were
returning from a mission in
Southeast Asia and
the radar hollered and
said "Are you holding hands?"
meaning you got another
bird in formation.
The answer was a negative.
We were a single ship.
So we did a climbing right hand
turn and when we rolled out we
looked up and there was two
full moons, side by side.
Till the right hand moon
rotated about 90 degrees,
became disk shape, and took off.
James Fox: Lieutenant Colonel
Mattson is telling us
he saw a flying saucer.
It's amazing.
Wayne Mattson: And, you
know, we said "Well,
don't know what it is, but
sure as heck isn't ours."
Ben McGee: So, it was as though
the object was following like
this and then you saw it on
edge and it just took off?
Wayne Mattson: And in a
matter of seconds it was gone.
James Fox: So you're saying to
me, as a lieutenant colonel,
is that you think that
flying saucers are real.
Wayne Mattson: Yes.
Ben McGee: So James is
really sold on this story,
but it made me question whether
or not the lieutenant is biased.
Obviously, he believes he saw an
alien spacecraft up in the sky,
and maybe that influenced
his analysis of the footage.
James Fox: This is clearly a
hotbed area that's had unusual
activity reported for decades.
James Fox: Ryder found a
really good vantage point.
We can go and survey the
area, and see if we can see
anything for ourselves.
Erin Ryder: Wow.
James Fox: Directly
west is White Sands.
And apparently Holloman Air
Force Base uses White Sands for
testing as well.
Erin Ryder: So they are
almost one in the same.
James Fox: Exactly,
and you know what?
This is, like, one of the best
places to get a good vantage
point of the base.
Erin Ryder: All right guys,
tonight is just all about trying
to record or capture any of the
strange activity people have
reported seeing at these bases.
Ben McGee: Yeah, so, you know,
Holloman's is going to be right
about over there.
And then White Sands is
the whole shooting match,
I mean it's miles long.
Erin Ryder: I'm going to
turn the radio scanner on.
See if we can pick up anything
from Holloman or White Sands.
Voice Radio: Pretty
time critical.
Maintain radar contact.
Erin Ryder: I got them.
Ben McGee: Hey. Looks like we
got someone on the runway maybe.
Erin Ryder: Yeah?
Ben McGee: It just lifted off.
Erin Ryder: Oh yeah. There it
goes.
Ben McGee: Yeah, see 'em?
May be a twin-prop.
Erin Ryder: C'mon now,
let's see if I can get him.
Ben McGee: You can hear him now.
Erin Ryder: In the air, that
absolutely looks like a plane.
Really no mistaking that as
something unidentified if you
kept eyes on it.
Ben McGee: See?
Look. Look look look look.
As the angle changes, it would
seem like lights are appearing
and disappearing.
I mean, this is why I think
so many UFO sightings are just
people who aren't familiar
with looking at aircraft.
Erin Ryder: Shh Shh Shh.
They're talking about us!
Ben McGee: What?
Voice Radio: Getting a reading
from the rocket park
Erin Ryder: Oh my God. Someone
was communicating that they
were seeing something up here
and then it went dead.
James Fox: Yeah, like they
don't know we're here.
It's like going to Area 51 and
thinking they're not detecting
you sitting on the
perimeter of the base.
Ben McGee: Yeah, we're going
to need to get higher up.
I'm having a hard time picking
out the base structure
from here.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Higher vantage
point would definitely give us
better access to the air space
above the base.
Was the traffic control
transmission we overheard just a
coincidence or was someone from
one of those military bases
tracking us?
Either way, we need to continue
on because we're just barely
scratching the surface of
this New Mexico investigation.
You know, I really think that
we need to track down somebody
who's got experience,
not only in the military,
but working with, you
know, objects like this.
We came down here looking
for answers on this video,
that some say is a UFO
crashing into a New Mexico
air force base.
Dee Gragg's worked at Holloman
Air force Base for 29 years.
If anyone knows what's going
on with the military out here,
it's him.
James Fox: Can you describe a
little bit about your experience
at Holloman?
Dee Gragg: I was a senior
analyst and most of my
responsibility was to analyse
how well the ejection seats in
the crew modules worked.
To see if the crew would
be injured, killed,
or if they would be safe.
James Fox: When you were there,
did you hear any talk about a
landing at Holloman Air Force
Base from a flying saucer?
Dee Gragg: The one I know about
occurred in February of 1955.
President Eisenhower flew
from Washington to Holloman.
He landed on the
north south runway.
There were two saucers.
One was about 200 feet
in front of Air Force One.
The other one
stayed about 300 feet up.
There was a ramp that
came out of the UFO.
Eisenhower walked up the ramp,
shook hands with somebody and
then went inside and he was
inside for about 45 minutes.
James Fox: Now, do you
know what you're saying sounds
absolutely nuts?
Dee Gragg: Does it really?
James Fox: It does. No offense.
I don't want you to take
offense to what I'm saying.
Dee Gragg: I never take offense.
James Fox: I'm not
trying to attack you.
I'm a firm believer
that UFOs are real.
I'm just saying that.
Dee Gragg: No. No. I understand.
James Fox: I mean that's
just a little bit like, woah.
You know what I mean?
Ben McGee: You are not going
to get me to believe that the
government is going to allow
the leader of the free world to
waltz by himself, unescorted,
onto an alien spacecraft,
that by all accounts is spewing
radiation as people have
described.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Can you tell us where
Holloman Air Force Base is?
Dee Gragg: Holloman Air Force
Base is just a little bit south
of us.
Erin Ryder: Dee went on to tell
us that people still report
seeing these strange objects
around Holloman and
White Sands to this day.
Which is great
because that's exactly what
we're here looking for.
We're heading up into the
mountains so that we can get
eyes on these military bases.
Because I want to see whatever
these locals say they're seeing
around here.
James Fox: This is going to
be the best vantage point
Erin Ryder: Yeah, look at the
view just from here.
James Fox: The things we do for
vantage points.
Erin Ryder: Getting really
steep through here.
James Fox: Watch out
for the thorny plants.
Major cactus over here.
Erin Ryder: This is not a
friendly terrain right now. Ow.
James Fox: Hey guys, we have
a clearing up to our left.
Erin Ryder: Alright. This looks
good. Nice vantage.
Ben McGee: Look at that
view Erin Ryder: Well,
I'm going to start
setting up the telescope with
the video camera.
We'll start getting that trained
on the skies above Holloman.
Ben, you've got
the video camera.
Ben McGee: Yup.
Erin Ryder: James, why don't we
give you the radio scanner and
you can be listening for any.
James Fox: Great.
Erin Ryder: Chatter
coming from the base.
James Fox: Holloman is
dead ahead of us, right?
Ben McGee: Yup Big, dark area.
Erin Ryder: Alright, well, I can
stay here and man this if you
guys want to head up.
James Fox: Yeah. Yeah.
That story about Eisenhower and
the UFO's at Holloman.
This guy in the mid 80s, who
worked for the Air Force's
archive department.
Ben McGee: Yeah?
James Fox: Who claimed he
actually saw the filmed footage
taken at Holloman Air Force Base
of a landing of a flying saucer
and it sounds outrageous but the
interesting thing is that this
guy, who described what
this footage looked like,
was killed in a car crash
with him and his wife.
So basically, the only known
person that saw the footage is
now dead.
Ben McGee: Wow. We're not going
to go any farther this way.
The world drops off.
Mother nature took a giant bite
out of this mountain. Wow.
Yeah, let's go up this way.
Erin Ryder: Pretty overcast out.
Not exactly the
greatest sky watching.
Haven't seen anything that
even resembles strange flights.
Quiet over the base.
Ryder for Ben and James
Ben McGee: Go ahead.
Erin Ryder: Hey guys, I just
wanted to check in and let you
know that I have eyes on the
Holloman runway and I did some
scouting around with the scope
and nothing out of the ordinary
just yet.
Ben McGee: Copy that, Ryder.
We're about half way up at a
much better vantage on our way
to an even better vantage.
Erin Ryder: Alright, well, while
you're up there let me know what
you guys see.
Ben McGee: Alright,
we'll check in later.
Over and out.
Erin Ryder: Copy that.
Nothing going on at
the base right now.
What the EXPLETIVE was that?
What the hell was that?
Ryder for Ben and James.
I just spotted something.
A light in the sky
came out of nowhere.
I'm going to try to get
a better vantage point. Ow.
James Fox: Ryder, come in.
Over.
Ryder....Be careful.
Erin Ryder: Oh, EXPLETIVE.
James Fox: Ryder, where are you?
Ryder, it's Ben and James.
Are you OK? Over.
Ben McGee: That's not good.
EXPLETIVE. Did she fall?
James Fox: I don't know. Ryder,
come in. Over.
Erin Ryder: Hey guys.
I just tried to chase what I
saw, get a better vantage point.
It disappeared right behind this
mountain that's just
south of us.
No view of it at all.
I actually almost stumbled
off this ledge over here.
Ben McGee: What'd it look like?
Over.
Erin Ryder: It was like
an orange, glowing light.
Thought it was a plane at first.
Looked again.
The thing was moving way,
way too fast to be a plane.
Unfortunately I didn't have time
to get the telescope there so
I thought I'd book after it, at
least get better eyes on it.
But no luck.
Unfortunately, whatever
I saw is gone now.
James Fox: We've got a
mountain blocking anything from
the south
so it would take hours to climb.
It's not going to
happen tonight. Over.
Erin Ryder: Don't worry I'll
be over here picking thorns and
cactus needles out
of my entire body.
James Fox: Copy.
Erin Ryder: Oh, that's smart.
That's smart.
After what I saw last night,
I'm starting to buy into this
connection between UFOs and
the military bases around here.
So, we're heading into Roswell
to speak with an ex-military
official who says he has
first-hand knowledge about
this connection.
James Fox: So there is this
guy, Sargent Clifford Stone,
that lives in Roswell.
He apparently was involved in
the recovery of several crashed
flying saucers and alien bodies.
Ben McGee: Going to
meet Clifford Stone.
I'm excited because this is a
man with a military background
who claims to have been on
a physical recovery team.
So this is the guy whose eyes I
want to be viewing through when
thinking about what sort of
physical investigation
we want to do.
Erin Ryder: Can you tell us a
little about your background in
the military?
Clifford Stone: I served
22 and a half years in
the United States army.
During that time I got
training in law enforcement,
and I also got training
in chemical, radiological,
and biological warfare.
During the 22 and a half years,
there were approximately 12
incidents in which I was
involved in recoveries.
Erin Ryder: And you're not
talking about terrestrial craft.
You're talking about.
Clifford Stone: I'm talking
about craft that did not
originate on this planet.
The first time I went
out on a recovery,
I was told to pick up my
radiological equipment because
we had a Soviet craft that
crashed and it may have an
atomic device on it.
Ben McGee: Well, when you
approach a site then what did
the scene look like?
Clifford Stone: Well, at
that point all I see is the
floodlights and I'm trying to
figure out what the craft is.
One guy, which I always
called the colonel,
he came up and said
"You're elected. You're going".
James Fox: Was there anyone
else around the craft?
Clifford Stone: Oh yeah, armed
guards around the craft but
they're not doing anything.
I'd say it was about like 30
foot in diameter.
Looked like some kind
of metallic, dull grey.
And I looked out there and
I saw what I saw and I said
"Sir, what the hell is that?
That's not a Soviet air craft.
And he says "You're not
being paid to ask questions.
You do the mission."
They told me to go
toward the craft.
James Fox: By yourself?
Clifford Stone: Mmhm. When I
got to the burn mark, off to
the side, there was like a
kidney shaped hatch open.
And the occupant was
lying outside the hatch.
Appeared to be dead.
And I knew that, uh, that
was not, that wasn't human.
James Fox: Did you
ever have it confirmed?
Clifford Stone: They
don't confirm that.
Erin Ryder: It seems
really emotional for you.
What are the feelings you feel
just by telling this again?
Clifford Stone: You
relive it in your mind.
You see it.
Erin Ryder: Do you believe an
extra-terrestrial craft crashed
at Roswell?
Clifford Stone: No, ma'am, I
know an extra terrestrial
craft crashed here at Roswell.
I know that for a fact.
It hit, tried to
take back off again,
and landed about 4
miles away.
James Fox: You know
it's interesting,
I didn't make the connection,
but you know the video that we
have where the object
hits the ground, impacts,
and then flies back off again?
Erin Ryder: Similar to
what he's describing.
Ben McGee: Presuming what
Clifford Stone is saying is
true, there has got to be
evidence left from any of these
recovery operations.
Either of the impact
itself or whatever it was,
or of the operation itself
which was extensive.
James Fox: As a geologist, you
can survey an area and know
where the most likely places
where debris would be?
Ben McGee: You can know where
nature will tend to collect
things.
So we are going to meet this
geologist, Frank Kimbler,
who's gone out to the alleged
Roswell crash site and has done
a geological survey and has
pulled out what he thinks may be
the first scientific evidence
of extra-terrestrial debris.
Frank?
James Fox: I can't believe we're
here.
Erin Ryder: So this is the spot?
Frank Kimbler: Absolutely.
If you take a look out that way
and then almost all the way down
towards the windmill is the
extent of the debris field and
then it's several
hundred yards wide.
James Fox: This exact location
is something I've talked about
and I've researched for years.
For me to be standing to where
I believe an alien spaceship
crashed back in 1947 is
unbelievably exciting.
James Fox: Holy EXPLETIVE.
Look at that.
For me to be standing to where
I believe an alien spaceship
crashed back in 1947 is
unbelievably exciting.
Erin Ryder: So Frank, why don't
you tell us a little about the
research you did and what
you ultimately found.
Frank Kimbler: Well, when I
first moved out to Roswell,
I went down to the
international UFO museum,
and I started going through the
museum and everything and I'm
going "well, there's
no physical evidence".
And then I says I need to put
some science behind this and use
some of my geology and see what
I can find and nobody wanted to
tell me where the location was.
Erin Ryder: And what exactly
do you mean by location?
Frank Kimbler: There's this
debris field and it's out by
the windmill and that was
what I honed in for.
That is what I was
trying to find.
So, I had to do some research to
find that and after I found the
location, I started pulling out
the aerial photographs and
I noticed this area right here
and it shows up as kind of a
squared-off burn area,
which is unusual,
because they usually
don't square off,
they're usually kind of curved.
And what struck me unique was
the fact that the description of
the debris field was that it was
several hundred yards wide
and it was three
quarters of a mile long
and I'm
going "oh my gosh".
It just so happens that this
thing is sitting smack dab in
the middle of what
the description was.
Erin Ryder: So what would be the
purpose of burning an area like
this?
Frank Kimbler: Destroy evidence.
Ben McGee: It'd be like the
equivalent of throwing bleach on
a crime scene?
Frank Kimbler: That's right and
I started looking at this and I
go "You know what, I'm going to
center my hunting area kind of
like in the center of that"
and that's what I did.
I drove out there with a
metal detector, a good one.
I wanted to look at the low
areas where the runoff was.
Typical geology things.
And, as the sun was going
down, in an anthill,
there was this shiny
little piece of metal.
I about had a heart attack.
Frank Kimbler: And this
is the material I found.
Erin Ryder: Oh wow.
Frank Kimbler: Some
of them are very hard.
Some of them are
a little bit soft.
So, there might be two or three
different kinds of metallic
things that are out there.
Frank Kimbler: If
you've ever seen, like,
aluminium cans out
in the boonies,
aluminium cans don't
look like this.
James Fox: Frank just pulled
out little pieces of metal which
could very likely be from
a spaceship that crashed in
Roswell New Mexico in 1947.
What if what this guy has
is from another world?
The implications of that
are earth shattering.
Frank Kimbler: They might
have got the big stuff,
but that tiny little stuff gets
wedged down in the cracks and I
think in any UFO crash site any
place in the world that people
say they've cleaned it up
and there's nothing there,
I say is a bunch of bologna.
Ben McGee: Frank has used solid
field science to help him find
what may be pieces
of metal debris.
However, before I am going to
jump to any conclusions about
whether or not the metal is
terrestrial or extra-terrestrial
in nature, we have
got to get more data.
We've got to do more analysis on
more of those fragments to see
if it's consistent.
Erin Ryder: Is the snow
going to hinder us at all?
Ben McGee: Well, it certainly
impedes the line of sight.
That's good it's on a slope.
Got a natural grade.
Erin Ryder: Okay.
So Frank, this is....
Ben McGee: This is ground zero?
Frank Kimbler: You're in it.
This is where it hit.
Right here.
It probably came in
like this and skipped.
James Fox: So this is the
point of impact right here?
Frank Kimbler: Yeah, right here
near the top of the hill and
right down through the valley.
James Fox: While there's been
decades of speculation as to
what exactly crashed
at Roswell, New Mexico,
the one thing that everyone
agrees on is that there was a
debris field that impacted the
site, skipped, and kept going,
and eventually crashed
in a different location,
very similar to the object we
saw crashing in the video at
White Sands.
Erin Ryder: Where was the last
place that you found some of
the debris?
Frank Kimbler: Just to the right
of the base of the hill and then
there was some of it that was
up this way as well, so this is,
we're in the middle of
where we found this.
Erin Ryder: So what
do you think Ben?
Ben McGee: I'd say that we set
up a survey grid and fan out as
far as we can get.
Erin Ryder: So the runoff would
take some of the debris and
wash it down here.
Ben McGee: Yup. Send it on down
with time.
Erin Ryder: Well, we're losing
daylight so why don't we, uh,
drop our gear and
start surveying?
Frank Kimbler: Start Looking.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Let's get to
it. Alright.
All metal since we don't know
what these things are made of.
Right now we're near a lot of
metal obviously because of
our gear.
Somewhere around
this area right here. OK.
While they're getting
the area surveyed,
let's head up to
the latest hot spot.
How's it going over there James?
James Fox: I could stay out here
for weeks because I know there's
debris out here.
Erin Ryder: I seriously feel
like a prospector prospecting
for gold right now or I feel
like a 65 year old man on the
beach in my speedo.
James Fox: This is
like my Disneyland.
I swear to you.
The fact that we have two
geologists out here with us to
help guide us through the
process and the fact that Frank
has already found debris
is just so exciting to me.
Frank Kimbler: Wow. James
Fox: Got something?
Frank Kimbler: Yeah, you do.
James Fox: I got something!
Erin Ryder: What do you got?
What do you got?
James Fox: I don't know
but I got something!
Come on over. Listen.
There's something there.
Erin Ryder: Absolutely
James Fox: We don't know what
it is but I got a solid hit.
Frank Kimbler: It's right there
and we have no idea what it is.
Ben McGee: Look at that.
Frank Kimbler: It's just there.
James Fox: It could
be something from,
it could be debris
from the crash.
It could be debris from the
military that were cleaning up
the craft.
I mean, you know?
We're out here at the crash
site, and I found something.
I don't know what it is yet
but we're going to find out.
So it's in there pretty good.
Frank Kimbler: So see if you
can slide it out Ben McGee: It's
buried, huh?
Erin Ryder: It's a lot
bigger than we anticipated.
James Fox: Oh, yeah.
Erin Ryder: Careful Ben
McGee: Don't cut yourself.
James Fox: Wait
it's starting to,
this is a big piece you guys.
Erin Ryder: Look at that.
James Fox: Woah. Look at that.
What is that?
It's very exciting
that I found anything.
I mean, we're in the
middle of nowhere, right?
I mean, even if it was just
something that the military
left, that in
itself is exciting.
Frank Kimbler: It's metallic. It
looks like rusty metal.
Erin Ryder: But this
isn't a Coke can.
This isn't a, you know.
James Fox: Is it possible that
that's something left over from
the military from 1947?
That they were there. I mean, is
it possible that it's that old?
Frank Kimbler: Absolutely.
I doubt if it was
wind blown out here.
Ben McGee: I don't care how
strong your dust devil...you're
not going to send this 100
miles [160.9 kilometers].
Erin Ryder: What do
you think it is Ben?
Ben McGee: Oh heck I don't.
On it's face?
It's evidence that
something happened here.
I mean, it's confirmatory.
Something put this here.
Frank Kimbler: That's right.
It's a piece of metal
from somebody.
Ben McGee: And the kicker
is we're on top of a hill.
Things don't roll uphill.
So the fact that this is on top
of the hill, something, someone,
some group, some activity had
to come up on top of this and
deposit it. Right?
Frank Kimbler: Absolutely.
I agree with that 100%.
Erin Ryder: Well let's try to
collect as much evidence as we
can with us on site and move on.
Ben McGee: Well, we found one.
Erin Ryder: Yeah, if we're
picking up stuff up here then
there's got to be more out here.
James Fox: It feels good. I'm
sorry but it does.
James Fox: You get that moment
where it's like "alright,
this is really exciting, I don't
want to get too excited" But
just the fact that you
found something manmade?
Out in the middle of nowhere?
That in itself is exciting.
Erin Ryder: Thanks Frank.
James Fox: Bye bye.
Erin Ryder: It's getting
late and Frank has to leave,
but we're at the
Roswell crash site.
We can't just up and leave in
the middle of an investigation,
so if it takes all night, we are
going to stay to try to find any
clue that can help us explain
what happened here in 1947.
James Fox: As a geologist, where
do you think the debris would
most likely be if there
were some debris left.
Ben McGee: Nature would run
it down to the lowest point.
James Fox: The lowest point.
So you're talking about
down in here.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Right down
in this ridge area.
The whole valley.
James Fox: Alright,
let's head down.
Erin Ryder: What's that up
ahead? Right here.
Ben McGee: Ant hill.
James Fox: Let's check it out
This is what Frank
Kimbler: said.
He said that he went with
anthills and animal rooms.
Ben McGee: Palaeontologists
use it all the time.
Move that curved
thing right there. Yeah.
Is that a stick?
Erin Ryder: Oh, it's actually
a little bone fragment.
Ben McGee: See?
That's what I'm talking about.
These ants will pick up
low-density stuff and then
they'll bring it all here.
James Fox: What are
they using it for?
Ben McGee: To build
up these hills.
So instead of heavier
little pebbles,
they'll use bones or little
flakes of light metal.
That's so cool.
This would be a
great thing to sieve.
Erin Ryder: Do you want
me to get the sifter out?
James Fox: Yeah. I mean, this is
our most likely spot you guys.
Right?
Ben McGee: Well, let the
ants do the work for you.
Erin Ryder: There's two in here.
Ben McGee: Cool. Great.
Yeah, the grounds frozen.
So we're really really only
going to get the surface stuff.
So just look for
something metallic.
Erin Ryder: Here James. Why
don't you hold this?
I'm going to kind of sweep the
area a little bit more with the
metal detector.
Ben McGee: OK Erin
Ryder: So guys,
don't stop doing what
you're doing here.
James Fox: Division of labor.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Divide and
conquer.
Ben McGee: That's right.
James Fox: What is that? That
piece right there.
Ben McGee: That's a rock.
James Fox: It is?
Ben McGee: Yup, I see
what you mean though.
Yeah, it's got a luster.
James Fox: Yeah, it does.
Ben McGee: But that's
geological to me.
There are minerals
that look like that.
Erin Ryder: Is this good?
James.
Ben McGee: It's a rock.
James Fox: It is a rock, ok.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Hey James
James Fox: Yeah?
Erin Ryder: You're kind of a
pro with this metal detector.
Could you come over here?
James Fox: Yeah Ben McGee: Yeah,
I don't see anything here but
rock and bone.
Erin Ryder: Is this
just the ice, though?
James Fox: It could be the ice.
Watch.
I'm going to move this ice.
I'm going to try to move this
piece and see if you still get
some readings.
Ben McGee: You guys got
something over there?
Erin Ryder: Maybe. It's really
strange.
James Fox: It could be
something. Pretty solid earth.
Erin Ryder: Yeah. Look at this.
Try right there.
James Fox: I mean, I'll tell
you, if I had it my way,
I'd spend 6 months out here.
Every night, every day, because
you know there's something out
here.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
James Fox: Whoa, look at that.
Look at this you guys!
Erin Ryder: What?
Ben McGee: What?
James Fox: Look!
Erin Ryder: Shut up.
James Fox: Look! That's a piece
of metal.
Erin Ryder: Shut up.
James Fox: Look at it. This is
not rusty like the other stuff.
Look at this!
Look at this! Holy EXPLETIVE!
Found something.
I mean, I can't believe that.
We found something you guys.
Ben McGee: That's a different
class of object than the other
things we found.
James Fox: It
certainly is, isn't it?
Ben McGee: Yep.
James Fox: This is so cool! This
has been in the ground for a
while, right? Come on.
Ben McGee: The suspense, man.
James Fox: I mean, come on,
what does this look like to you?
Erin Ryder: I don't know.
Ben McGee: It looks like
a piece of metal so far.
James Fox: How far
down is this you guys?
I'm going down.
Erin Ryder: Oh my God.
James Fox: Woah!
Erin Ryder: Oh my God.
James Fox: It's a military
button! Look! Look! Look!
Erin Ryder: What the EXPLETIVE.
Ben McGee: Holy EXPLETIVE. Is
that Air Force?
Erin Ryder: I see
wings on the top.
James Fox: Look. It's four.
It's stars.
Ben McGee: This is a
very identifiable symbol.
James Fox: You guys. This is
consistent with what I heard.
They had the soldiers.
Ben McGee: On hands and knees.
James Fox: On hands and knees
and they were literally combing
through this entire area so they
could have easily lost buttons.
I mean.
Ben McGee: Oh yeah, how else do
you just randomly lose a button?
Not if you're just
walking around.
James Fox: You're not going
to be walking upright, right?
You know what I mean?
This is like, this gives
me chills finding this.
Ben McGee: This says not just
people were here but
military was here.
This is like from a coat
or a Erin Ryder: Jacket.
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
James Fox: It has a symbol
on it so we can identify it.
Ben McGee: We can identify it.
That's why I'm so excited.
James Fox: Does that mean we
can know what regiment or what.
Ben McGee: Yes. They're unique
per unit.
James Fox: Wow.
Erin Ryder: I'm
no button expert,
but it looks like military.
Ben McGee: Well, it's got, yeah.
It looks like air force.
James Fox: Army, air corps.
You never know what
you're going to find.
Ben McGee: I'm blown away. I'll
say that.
James Fox: Don't' ever
underestimate the night
investigation.
Erin Ryder: We headed home to
analyse the most extraordinary
pieces of evidence
from New Mexico.
And the results even
had us surprised.
Our missile expert told
us that in his opinion,
this is not a missile.
Wayne Mattson: It doesn't look
like any missile I've ever seen.
Erin Ryder: So maybe
the theory is right.
Maybe this is a UFO.
James Fox: This is what I've
been saying the whole time.
It looks like a disc,
it behaves like a disc,
and it skips like a disc.
Ben McGee: Ok.
Erin Ryder: This
is not a missile.
From everything we've seen and
heard during this investigation,
I do believe that things are
crashing around New Mexico air
force bases.
Are they alien craft? I can't
say.
But I do believe the military is
going to great lengths to cover
this all up.
This is the piece of metal
that James found at the Roswell
crash site.
James Fox: I got something.
Erin Ryder: That's the
metal under magnification.
We had it analysed.
Unfortunately, didn't turn
anything up out of the ordinary.
Looks like it was
just common tin.
James Fox: The fact that it was
out there indicates at least a
presence of some sort of
activity dating back probably
40, 50, 60 years.
While the piece of metal that
I found didn't turn out to be
extra-terrestrial in origin,
I'm convinced through all my
research; whatever crashed
there was not of this earth.
Erin Ryder: Let me pull
up this right here.
Clear as day, that's the
button that we found at
the Roswell crash site.
This is an official document
that states that our button was
used by the air force.
It was manufactured
from 1947 to 1949.
Ben McGee: It looks like
there were two characters.
Like yeah. This this and that.
Separating the stars.
Before we conducted
this investigation,
I wasn't necessarily convinced
that anything at all had really
happened at Roswell.
This is like from a coat or a
Erin Ryder: Jacket
Ben McGee: Yeah.
Erin Ryder: Yeah.
Ben McGee: This says not just
people were here but
military was here.
Certainly now after finding
a button from an air force
personnel coat, I think
something happened there.
And for me to go from not
sure that anything happened to
something happened, was
quite a journey for me,
but that doesn't mean
it had to be aliens.