Brainwash (2010–…): Season 1, Episode 5 - Sex - full transcript

Hi, girls! Do you have the time?

A short talk.

I don't think so.

Why not?

I don't think I dare to.

It's a program on science.

Stop fooling me!

It is!

Stop! Come here.

I'm interested in serious questions too.

Especially at half past midnight, a Friday night.



Can I ask a few questions?

It's about men and women and sexuality. This is not a hoax.

Absolute fidelity.

For better or worse, until death do you apart.

They enjoy sex as much as boys.

This is natural to talk about.

Are you the jealous type?

I am extremely jealous.

Sex really sells.

You don't look like yourself, but you still look good.

I think you should be happy with that.

Girls have taken control over their own sexuality.

Nice girls do not want sex.

You can do what you want.



What's the goal of the evening?

That depends.

Are men pushy when they're out?

Yes.

They are very pushy.

In what way are they pushy?

That's an example!

Is it like that?

Most of them want to get something. If you understand.

Is that fun?

No, it's not fun.

Are they too pushy?

Expecially when you try to get away.

Then they follow. Like a little tail.

It's always like that.

They follow you all the way.

And that doesn't work?

No.

It nearly seems like, with some of the boys, that they want sex more than girls.

Men are generally hornier than women.

Are they?

Jep, jep.

Why is it like that?

They only think down there. They don't use the brain.

Yeah, why is so that boys push for sex.

Is it so that boys are born hornier that girls?

Or is it just that boys live up to an expectation from the surroundings-

-that they should conquer, and get girls to bed?

Even if not all guys succeed in going home with a girl,-

-still today's girls are more liberated than they used to be.

Don't you want to seduce me once?

I'm not a pervert.

There's nothing perverted about that.

But how much more liberated have the girls really become?

I have an appointment with sociology professor Willy Pedersen.

He has compared 12.000 Norwegian youth within a 10 year gap.

And can quantify the change in girls' sexuality.

We see that the debut age for intercourse for girls-,

-the median debut age, has dropped the last 10 years-

-17,7 years to 16,7 years,

While it for boys sank from 18,5 to 18.

So the girls are one year sooner out there.

Also gender researcher Jørgen Lorentzen-

-believes there are great changes in attitudes towards female sexuality.

It was very shameful for women to have a one-night stand-

-for only 30 or 40 or 50 years ago.

Right. And now most women... young women, can do it without a problem.

And without regret.

We are, I could say, bombarded, with sexual imagery from all sides.

It has created a whole new situation with many new problems that the church will have to address.

Norwegians of today are world champions of casual sex.

And today girls debut earlier and have more sexual partners than ever before.

And girls with a free sex life seem cool and modern,-

In Norwegian media now there's a celebration of female sexuality.

Dildos and female organisms and whatnot.

There is an ongoing celebration in Norwegian media of female sexuality.

While the previous generation was influenced by chaste female role models,-

-are there today totally different role models.

Why are today's girls so much more liberated?

Some scientists think that they are affected by tv-series like "Sex and the City".

While other scientists think they have learned it from other places.

The girls that became sexually active in the 90s and from 2000,-

-are daughters of the first generation of female equality.

These mothers learned that sex can be OK.

And it's not necessarily dangerous. There is protection.

You don't have to get pregnant. And this new generation 30 years later-

-has gotten that message.

And this has resulted in the perception that sex is OK and fine.

Norwegian girls are getting more and more sexually active.

How in the world is this going to end?

When in a future, where everyone is equally fond of casual sex,-

-then it's going to be pretty wild.

I believe so.

If everyone were easy to get into bed, imagine the chaos here!

It'll be a zoo.

Are you serious?

Yes, that's what I think.

But we're not there yet. Still the girls are a little reserved.

Leif Edward Ottesen Kennair is an associate professor in psychology in Trondheim.

And he asked 1000 young Norwegian women and men of how many-

-about how many partners they wanted to have during their whole life.

We found that around 25 partners was the dream scenario for boys.

But for girls the average was about 7.

So both groups want variation.

While boys want more variation than the girls.

In "Kamille" magazine they referred to a British survey of 1700 women and men-

-who all had a one-night stand.

It showed that 80 % of the men were happy with the experience the following day.

While only half of the women felt the same thing.

I have to talk to the one who conducted this study, Anne Campbell.

She's a professor in psychology at the University of Durham in northern England.

What was it the women, in the survey, were so unhappy about?

Gro Isachsen is a sexologist and a manager at the clinic, "Sexologen".

She writes several columns and has written several books about sex.

She feels that Campbell's findings-

-in part are about how English men are bad lovers.

But that it's not the whole explanation.

It's these conventions that these are things that one shouldn't do,-

-that are still strong. Unfortunately.

"Unfortunately"? Do you wish...

I would wish that people were more in contact with their sexual enjoyments and their pleasures.

It's just about the only area in the world-

-where experience is something negative.

Martine Aurdal is an editor at "Dagbladet" and a feminist.

She thinks that these sex differences stem from dissimilar expectations to women and men.

It's part of the female role. Right. You are to build a nest. Guard the family.

Be the one that builds a home.

In a different way than the man, the Casanova and hunter, is supposed to.

If women are taught that sex primary belongs in a steady relationship,-

-where does this learning come from?

You only have to read women's magazines. One is enough.

Women are expected to and are taught to-

-link sex to love in a whole different way than men are.

Okay. So women's magazines clearly work both ways.

They influence women to want less casual sex.

While they influence women to be more exited about casual sex.

All in all the culture affects us in a way that makes men-

-are a bit more promiscuous than women.

If these expectations to the female sexuality should change,-

-one would get a society where women and men are-

-equally pleased with a one-night stand.

Yes.

That's a given.

And were are getting closer and closer to that society.

Lorentzen and Isachsen say that when we get a free society-

-women and men will be equally happy with non-committal sex.

But Campbell is skeptical about this model.

So if the gender differences aren't just from the culture, what is it?

Is it about biology?

It has to be biological.

Could there be something biological and innate that results in these differences?

No. These type of claims make us gender researchers wee red.

My assertion is that there are no differences. There are no differences-

-outside of the the this that have something to do with the reproductive systems.

The fact that we have to reproduce ourselves.

The genitalia, and things connected to that.

Some say women aren't made to be as promiscuous as men.

What do you think?

So, if we take a historical look at that,-

-then we could dismiss that quite emphatically.

For instance thinking of ancient Greece.

Or ancient Rome.

In those days they went a lot further. The women too.

So it's probably all related to culture.

These scientists think that it's about culture, and not biology.

Pederson, too, believes that our sexuality is primary formed by society.

It's constantly changing.

That's an indication that the these are no biological things that tell us-

-that now we have to do this and that. Dogs and cats may have it a bit.

But with humans it's much more in a state of flux.

Human sexuality is more moldable?

Yes, naturally.

Yes, how moldable is our sexuality, actually?

How much does is vary from culture to culture?

In our country, men are more interested in non-committal sex than women.

Are there societies where it's the opposite? Where women have a bigger need for sex than men?

I visit psychology professor Richard Lippa at California State University.

Richard Lippa has done a survey in 53 countries, with more than 200.000 respondents.

This is not part of my private session at the psychologist, Lippa,-

-but questions from his survey.

Where he found cultural differences.

So Lippa didn't find any culture where it's different.

Women are never more interested in casual sex than men.

Kennair found that Norwegian men want more sex partners-

-than Norwegian women. Is this true in other cultures too?

David Buss is a psychology professor at the University of Texas in Austin.

He can answer this.

Buss has done a huge cross-cultural sex study.

Where he asked 12.000 men and women in 50 different cultures-

-about how many sexual partners they would like to have in their lifetime.

Everywhere around the world men are more interested in having more sexual partners than women.

And if men were to have their wishes granted. How would the world look then?

Buss believes the homosexuals can give us an answer.

A study of homosexual men and women in San Francisco-

-found that 28 % of the men had had more than 1000 sexual partners.

And among the lesbians. 2 % had had sex with more than 100. And no-one with more than 1000.

Both homosexual sexual habits and international studies point to-

-the male and female sexuality being innately different. But why is it so?

Campbell believes we have to go back to the evolution.

The theory is, that a male that had more random sex and slept with many, had more babies-

-than a man that didn't like random sex and didn't sleep with that many.

And even though not all of the children from the man with the most random sex survived,-

-because the mother were the only ones with the responsibility, he still had more descendants.

That inherited his desire for casual sex.

It was different for women.

A woman that slept with many in a short time, got only one child.

But there's another reason to as to why men and women have developed a slightly different sexual taste.

Since having a baby is so demanding with so big consequences for a woman's life,-

-would a woman want more from a man than just sex.

Will you live with her after God's holy word, honor and love her?

And stay with her for better or worse, to death do you part?

The theory is that women that rather had sex with a man in a steady relationship,-

-got help with the child, which was then more likely to survive.

And today's women have inherited this taste for sex in a relationship.

Would you want a relationship to a man-

-which was totally non-committal? Just sex, and nothing more?

No. I wouldn't wish for that.

Martine Aurbal feels that women are being taught by women's magazines-

-to link sex to love.

But could it be the other way around? That the magazines reflect women's natural interests?

But still...

Women do have non-committal sex.

The differences are just that the women are more selective.

They don't want just anybody.

I smile and giggle, but am actually bitter.

Because experiments show that women that want a short-term affair-

-go for men that look tough and robust.

What things are important?

If it's for one night, it's looks.

A bad boy attitude.

He has to be good in bed.

But how do you see that?

He has to undress.

Ladies have always loved the tough guys.

But luckily, when they want a long-term partner, the taste changes.

A boyfriend?

We'll search a little deeper then.

So then personality suddenly matters?

He has to be very considerate.

What? I thought my face reeked of casual sex.

My film crew tests a picture of me on the streets in the USA.

Hmm... American women are harsh.

And like many men have experienced women don't want just anybody.

How many percent of today's men will have descendants? In Norway today?

About 25 % of Norwegian 40-year-olds do not have children.

These 25 % of males in Norway that do not have descendants,-

-do they have characteristics? Are they pitiful?

You can say it as simple as this: They're as a group not attractive to women.

Women are selective, and have always been.

And perhaps not less selective in our society.

Are they small? Stupid? Uncharming?

We don't know anything about that.

We know that they haven't been chosen.

It's merciless.

Yes, it is.

Opposed to women men aren't that picky.

We can lay down and relax...

Maybe women and men are a naturally a little different when it comes to sexuality.

But at the same side it's obvious that culture affects female desire for casual sex.

Everyone knows that in the schoolyard shouting "whore" to a girl-

-is the most effective term of abuse one can use.

Whorewoman.

You can't say that kind of thing.

Many feel that they have to protect their reputation.

We think that this is gone, but it's still were much here.

And girls still speak ill of each other-

-if they have sex too much and too often and with too many.

Okay, let's say you look at a man and say: "Check him out!"

"I heard he has had sex with a hundred girls."

Is that negative of positive?

So, the guys would probably high five him.

But the girls would have thought he was a philanderer.

If it was a girl they said had slept with one hundred,-

-then everyone would say: Fy, that's nasty.

Why is so, that it is so hard for a girl to have had many sexual partners-

-and it's not like that for men?

That has something to do with a culture of shame.

It has lasted for a very, very long time.

It probably has a historical explanation.

The vies of sex from Victorian times is carried with us today.

So Victorian times are still alive and well among student girls,-

-that are highly educated?

And everywhere. People who have not heard about the Victorian times... it's still in our heads constantly?

It's locked into people, approximately.

The Victorian times were the period in 19th century,-

-where the female sexuality were subjected to far more severe moral demands than men.

But what about those countries that didn't have Victorian times?

Do they have the same double standard than the one we have?

Women in all cultures are concerned with their sexual reputation.

And Buss and Campbell say there's a biological reason here too.

In short, are you the father of the child or not?

How can you know that?

What do you mean?

You can't know that?

No, you can never know that.

Weren't you alone?

At that time, yes.

The theory is that fatherhood uncertainty has marked the innate male psychology.

And in some societies this innate tendency in males-

-could have violent results.

And the male concern for female sexual fidelity is not a paranoid notion.

Has this uncertainty of fatherhood led to males reacting differently-

-than women on adultery?

To test this. Buss conducted a jealousy experiment.

He took men and women with partners to a lab. And let them think about:

A.) That their partners were having sex with someone else.

And B, that they fell in love with someone else.

While he did this, he measured their pulse and sweat secretion.

So it's easier to forgive a fling?

No, nut you can't do much if he falls in love.

But you can work it out if it's just sexual infidelity.

On step...

Jealousy is a horrible feeling, regardless of gender.

And the first time I felt it, was in high school.

I was deeply in love with a girl in from the same term.

And now we'll meet at our old school for the first time in 25 years.

Hello!

How nice to see you!

You look so good!

You too.

No, you only say that to be nice.

A little bit.

But you do look pretty good.

But I'm only me...

Linn grabbed me my final year there, right before I turned 18 years old.

Linn was the cutest in our graduating class. Very funny and cute.

But on my 18th year birthday, Steinar, the coolest guy at school,-

-and flirted with her.

And I lied, and said I wasn't bothered.

Then we came to school on Monday, and she and Steinar stood there.

And they were having fun, laughing and flirting.

Let's re-enact that. You're the handsome athlete.

Okay, then I'm standing here and,-

You have to flirt with her, and Linn you have to laugh a lot.

I was standing right here! "Oh, quit it...og stop it."

I even think he lifted you.

It doesn't bother me that they are having fun...

Luckily I'm not the jealous.

Yeah, that's exactly what Steinar did. Picked it up right away.

I actually feel some of the same old painful feelings.

You said you weren't jealous.

Yes, I said that. But I didn't have insight to...

Are you jealous?

No, no.

No, right. People say that they're not jealous.

Very good! Thanks a lot for the help.

You both held your heads high. I was bent over, and five feet tall.

And stood with my bowed friends. It was horrible.

But even if it's a horrible feeling to be jealous. Buss thinks we are jealous because it has a function.

Harald, you've brought your daughter with you.

Yes.

It's an Eia-girl. I could tell that right away.

You know children look like their fathers when they are born.

That's nature's laws.

Yes, it's interesting. So everything is fine?

Yes, very fine.

Robert, can you take her?

Who's that?

Just the guy who's renting the downstairs of my house...

So today's men are not descendants from unjealous men like I am here.

But still me and that guy from my school insisted we weren't jealous.

You said you weren't jealous.

Yes, I said that. But I didn't have insight to...

Are you jealous?

No, no.

Why are so many denying that they are jealous?

Linn wasn't just an 8, she was a 9. And I. a weak 6.

And if I had admitted jealousy, I would have revealed to the whole school that I felt inferior.

After that experience I got a hold of myself and got a girlfriend here at school-

-just so I wasn't a virgin anymore.

Because that was horrible for me.

I had read Dostoyevsky and Kafka, but not slept with anyone.

Yes.

That sequence is backwards.

Yes.

Okay, enough about me.

Time to conclude.

The scientists I have met in this program, have different views-

-on what shapes our sexual feelings.

Lorentzen feels the differences between male and female sexuality is just down to culture.

And that women therefore could like casual sex just as much as men.

We're getting closer and closer to that society.

Do you dream of a society where women can sleep with many,-

-and whoever they want without being condemned?

Yes.

Do you think we will ever get there?

Yes, I hope so. I think we're headed there.

Will this dream ever be realized?

Will a woman that has slept with hundreds-

-ever be evaluated the same way as a man who's slept with many?

Anne Campbell thinks it's unlikely.

If Buss and Campbell are right in the fact that women and men are born a little different.

-it could mean that a free society not necessarily leads to-

-that female and male sexual preferences become similar.

Norwegian social scientists say the society molds our sexuality.

But are they missing something important?

Could it be that it's not just the societal repression-

-that makes women want casual sex less than men?

But there can be some biological aspects too?

I invite Jørgen Lorentzen to my office to show him what Buss explained to me about his studies-

-of male and female sexuality.

Does he find this interesting?

He's frenetically concerned about a difference between men and women.

Everything comes down to that.

Aren't you frenetically concerned with that there are no differences?

No, as a matter of fact I am not.

Because I study those phenomena that...so...

I am concerned with how culture affects us as a gender.

Are you more critical of the biological evidence than the cultural?

No, but I feel it has to have some scientific basis.

That's only the hypotheses that they work with.

So, they have the exactly the same material as I have.

Namely that there are big differences between... women and men.

Cross-cultural connections.

But all in patriarchal societies. You can't change that in an instant.

Things take time... Norway has been a patriarchal society for hundreds of years.

But juridically...

So there can't be any biological explanations on the differences?

I say that I don't believe it.

Is this a question of belief?

Yes...so... no.

No, it's not a question of belief. It's a question of... for them it's a case of faint.

For them it's a bigger case of belief than it is for you?

Yes, for me it's a case about it having to be scientifically proven.

I'm a scientist.

And for things to be said to be the case it has in some way be scientifically proven.

Lorentzen is right in that none of what the other scientists say, is proof-

-that there are innate differences in male and female society.

But even if culture undoubtedly has an effect,-

-I think it seems unlikely that evolution gave women and men different sex-organs-

And not a little dissimilar sexual preferences or psychology.