60 Minutes (1968-…): Season 55, Episode 24 - Please Let Me Die/Who Is Minding the Chatbots?/David Byrne - full transcript

Ukrainian POWs describe Russian captivity; ChatGPT: AI, chatbots and a world of unknowns; musician David Byrne discusses his career.

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>>> WHEN RUSSIA SHELLED THIS
CITY TO RUIN, IT CAPTURED
UKRAINIAN TROOPS, INCLUDING
THESE THREE WOMEN.

>> THE FIGHT THERE WAS
DESPERATE.
>> Translator: YES, THIS WAS
NONSTOP FIGHTING, NONSTOP

SHELLING.
TONIGHT, STORIES OF SURVIVAL IN
P.O.W. CAMPS THAT THE U.N.
CONDEMNS FOR TORTURE.

>> WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU
WERE PREGNANT?
>>> LAST MONTH, MICROSOFT
INTRODUCED A NEW CHATBOT POWERED

BY ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE THAT
SEEMED TO HAVE A MENACING
ALTER-EGO CALLED SYDNEY.
BUT SHE TALKED LIKE A PERSON AND

SHE SAID SHE HAD FEELINGS.
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS A
POINT WHERE WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE
WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO A MACHINE.



>>> THIS IS ONE OF DAVID BYRNE'S
FIRST PERFORMANCES.

IT WAS 1975 AT CBGB'S, A
LEGENDARY CLUB WHERE THE
RAMONES, PATTI SMITH, AND
BLONDIE WERE ALL JUST GETTING

STARTED.
>> SO I WANT TO BE VERY MATTER
OF FACT.
IT'S NOT LIKE, ARE WE HAVING FUN

TONIGHT?
HOW ARE YOU ALL DOING, NEW YORK!
>>> I'M LESLEY STAHL.
>> I'M BILL WHITAKER.

>> I'M ANDERSON COOPER.
>> I'M SHARYN ALFONSI.
>> I'M JON WERTHEIM.
>> I'M SCOTT PELLEY.



THOSE STORIES AND MORE TONIGHT
ON "60 MINUTES."
>> ONE ATROCITY IN VLADIMIR
PUTIN'S UNPROVOKED WAR IN

UKRAINE IS LARGELY HIDDEN - THE
TORTURE OF PRISONERS.
WE MET THREE FORMER P.O.W.s,
SURVIVORS IN KYIV, UKRAINE'S

CAPITAL.
THEY WERE SOLDIERS, AND ALL
WOMEN.
WHAT THEY SAY IS EXTREMELY

DISTURBING.
THEIR STORIES CAN'T BE VERIFIED
INDEPENDENTLY, BUT THEY TRACK
WITH THE TESTIMONY THAT THE U.N.

COLLECTED FROM MORE THAN 150
FORMER PRISONERS.
AT THE END OF A VICIOUS BATTLE,
FEAR OF RUSSIAN CAPTIVITY WAS SO

GREAT THAT ONE OF THE WOMEN WE
MET SIMPLY LOOKED TO GOD AND
SAID, "PLEASE LET ME DIE."
>> THEY FOUGHT HERE, IN THE

SOUTHERN PORT CITY OF MARIUPOL.
ONCE ALIVE WITH 400,000
RESIDENTS, PUTIN SHELLED
MARIUPOL TO MISERY.

IN APRIL, THE LAST UKRAINIAN
TROOPS WERE CORNERED IN THOSE
STEEL MILLS ABOVE THE GRAVEYARD.
>> TELL ME ABOUT THE FIGHT AT

THE STEEL PLANT.
>> 35-YEAR-OLD SERGEANT
IRYNA STOGNIY IS A MEDIC.
>> Translator: WE SAW PEOPLE

DYING, CHILDREN DYING,
CHILDREN'S HEADS BEING BLOWN
OFF...CIVILIANS...IT'S HARD TO
BRING THOSE MEMORIES BACK.

>> HARD, BECAUSE AT LEAST 25,000
CIVILIANS WERE KILLED.
>> SHE CONTINUED, WE TRIED TO
HELP CIVILIANS.

WE TRIED TO GIVE THEM SOME
ASSISTANCE, AT LEAST SOMETHING,
WATER, MEDICINE, FOOD.
THERE WERE LITTLE CHILDREN WITH

US.
IT'S HARD TO WATCH YOUR FRIEND'S
HEAD BE BLOWN OFF IN FRONT OF
YOU.

IT WAS -- YOU CAN'T DESCRIBE
THIS WITH WORDS, DIFFICULT, VERY
DIFFICULT WHEN PEOPLE YOU KNOW,
AND CHILDREN, DIE FOR NOTHING.



>> SERGEANT STOGNIY SERVED IN
MARIUPOL WITH CAPTAIN
MARIANA MAMONOVA, A 31-YEAR-OLD
MILITARY DOCTOR.

>> SHE TOLD US, THERE WAS ONE
TIME WHEN WE SAW A FAMILY
RUNNING AS WE WERE DRIVING TO
SAVE OUR SOLDIERS.

AND WHEN WE WERE COMING BACK,
THE FATHER WAS CRYING OVER HIS
FAMILY - THE BODIES OF THE MOM
AND A LITTLE CHILD.

>> ALSO AT THE STEEL MILL,
33-YEAR-OLD SERGEANT ANASTASIA
CHORNENKA RAN COMMUNICATIONS.
>> THE FIGHT THERE WAS

DESPERATE.
>> Translator: YES, CONSTANT
AVIATION, ARTILLERY.
THIS WAS NONSTOP FIGHTING,

NONSTOP SHELLING.
>> DURING THE BATTLE CHORNENKA
OFTEN SENT HER FAMILY A TEXT -
JUST ONE CHARACTER.

>> SHE SAID, IT WAS VERY QUICK.
IF YOU SENT A "PLUS" SIGN, IT
MEANT YOU WERE ALIVE.
>> DR. MAMONOVA ALSO HAD A

MESSAGE.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOR HER
HUSBAND BACK HOME.
BUT SHE WOULD NOT SEND IT.

>> WHEN DID YOU REALIZE THAT YOU
WERE PREGNANT?
>> Translator: I REALIZED THAT I
WAS PREGNANT IN THE MIDDLE OF

MARCH.
AND WHEN I SAW THAT THE TEST
RESULT WAS POSITIVE, I CRIED.
I WAS HYSTERICAL.

>> BUT SHE DIDN'T WANT HER
HUSBAND TO KNOW HOW MUCH HE
STOOD TO LOSE.
>> Translator: I KNEW, IF I

DIED, IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR HIM
TO RECONCILE WITH THE LOSS OF A
WIFE THAN THE LOSS OF A WIFE AND
BABY.

>> BY APRIL, THE FIGHT FOR
MARIUPOL WAS HOPELESS.
SERGEANT STOGNIY'S UNIT WAS
SURROUNDED.

>> Translator: THEY TOOK AWAY
OUR MEN SEPARATELY, SPLITTING
THEM UP, SOME OF THE MEN WERE
BEATEN, SOME OF OUR MEN

WERE...HOW SHALL I PUT IT...SHOT
IN THE HEAD...
>> THE RUSSIANS KILLED UNARMED
MEN?

>> Translator: YES, WE WERE
UNARMED.
>> ABOUT THE SAME TIME, CAPTAIN
MAMONOVA'S UNIT WAS MOVING IN

THE NIGHT TO REINFORCE TROOPS
FIGHTING FOR THEIR LIVES.
SHE TOLD US, I WOULD JUST SAY TO
MY SOLDIERS IN MY MEDICAL UNIT

THAT IF I WAS GOING TO GET
CAPTURED, "JUST SHOOT ME.
DON'T LOOK AT ME - JUST SHOOT
ME."

AND DON'T LET ME BE CAPTIVE.
DON'T LET ME.
>> SUDDENLY, IN OUR INTERVIEW,
SHE WAS BACK, HIDING IN THE REAR

OF A TRUCK THAT RAN INTO A
RUSSIAN PATROL.
SHE TURNED TO A FELLOW SOLDIER.
>> Translator: PLEASE TELL ME

THAT WE DID NOT GET CAPTURED.
AND HE'S LOOKING AT ME, NOT
KNOWING WHAT TO SAY.
I SEE FEAR IN HIS EYES.

I REALIZED THAT HE CAN'T TELL ME
THAT WE DIDN'T GET CAPTURED
BECAUSE WE DID GET CAPTURED.
>> NEXT, CAME A BLINDING LIGHT

AND VOICES WARNING THAT THEY
WOULD BE SHOT.
>> Translator: ARTILLERY SHELLS
WERE FALLING DOWN.

AND AT THAT MOMENT I WAS ASKING
GOD TO LET ME DIE.
I THOUGHT, "OH, GOD, I DON'T
WANT TO BE CAPTURED.

I JUST WANT TO DIE HERE.
PLEASE LET ME DIE."
>> SHE KNEW THAT THE WALLS OF
PUTIN'S PRISONS MUFFLE CRIES OF

TORTURE.
A U.N. P.O.W. INVESTIGATION
COLLECTED TESTIMONY OF
EXECUTIONS, STARVATION, ATTACKS

BY DOGS, TWISTING JOINTS UNTIL
THEY BREAK AND MOCK EXECUTIONS.
>> Translator: WHEN THEY FIRST
TALKED ABOUT TAKING ME FOR

EXECUTION, ANASTASIA CHORNENKA
TOLD US I ONLY HAD ENOUGH TIME
TO PRAY AND SAY GOOD-BYE TO MY
CHILDREN.

PROBABLY THE WORST YOU FEEL IS
THAT YOU WON'T SEE YOUR CHILDREN
EVER AGAIN.
>> ALL HER CHILDREN KNEW WAS

THAT THE PLUS SIGN TEXT STOPPED
LIGHTING UP THE PHONE.
>> Translator: YOU DON'T KNOW
WHERE THE FIGHTING IS AND

WHETHER YOUR CHILDREN ARE IN A
SAFE PLACE.
THIS IS THE MOST FRIGHTENING
THING FOR A MOTHER.

>> AFTER PUTIN'S UNPROVOKED
INVASION, THE U.N. P.O.W. REPORT
ALSO FOUND RUSSIANS ABUSED BY
UKRAINE MOSTLY DURING CAPTURE.

BUT UKRAINE HAS OPENED ITS
P.O.W. CAMP TO INTERNATIONAL
INSPECTION WHILE RUSSIA HIDES
ITS PENAL COLONIES.

IRYNA STOGNIY SAYS THAT SHE WAS
MOVED AMONG FOUR RUSSIAN PRISONS
AND TORTURED WITH ELECTRICITY.
>> Translator: THEY WOULD RAPE

SOME MEN.
WHEN WE WERE IN TAGANROG PRISON,
THERE WAS A CELL FOR MEN AND A
CELL FOR WOMEN.

AND WE COULD HEAR OUR MEN
SCREAMING WHEN THEY WERE BEING
RAPED.
THEY WERE MAKING OUR MEN SCRAPE

OFF THEIR TATTOOS.
THEY WERE BEATING THEM BADLY.
TEY DID THE SAME TO WOMEN.
THEY WOULD BEAT THEM, POUR

BOILING WATER ON THEM.
THE ONLY THING THEY DIDN'T DO,
THEY DIDN'T RAPE WOMEN.
BUT THE BEATING WAS BRUTAL,

ABUSE WAS VERY BAD.
>> THIS IS A RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA
FILM, IN APRIL, THAT SHOWS
MARIANA MAMONOVA IN CAPTIVITY.

SHE'S ABOUT FOUR MONTHS PREGNANT
AND WAS TOLD, PRIVATELY, WHAT
WOULD BECOME OF HER BABY.
>> Translator: THEY SAID THEY

WOULD TAKE MY CHILD AWAY FROM ME
AND THEY WOULD MOVE THE BABY
REPEATEDLY FROM ONE ORPHANAGE TO
ANOTHER SO I COULD NEVER FIND MY

CHILD.
>> I WONDER, AS YOU FELT YOUR
DAUGHTER MOVING, WHAT DID YOU
TELL HER?

>> Translator: I WAS SAYING TO
MY CHILD THAT WE WERE STRONG,
AND WE COULD DO IT.
"YOUR MOMMY IS STRONG.

YOUR MOMMY IS MILITARY.
YOUR MOMMY IS A DOCTOR.
YOUR MOMMY WILL SAVE YOU."
>> SHE ASKED ONLY ONE THING FROM

HER CHILD IN RETURN.
>> Translator: YOU WILL BE BORN
IN UKRAINE.
CAN YOU HEAR ME IN THERE?

YOU MUST BE BORN IN A FREE
UKRAINE.
>> UNKNOWN TO THE PRISONERS, A
FREE UKRAINE WAS WORKING TO GET

THEM HOME.
ANDRIY YERMAK IS CHIEF OF STAFF
TO PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR
ZELENSKYY.

FROM THE VERY FIRST DAY, YERMAK
TOLD US, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SET
UP THE JOB TO RETURN PRISONERS
OF WAR.

>> LEADING NEGOTIATIONS FOR
PRISONER EXCHANGES IS YERMAK'S
JOB.
SO FAR, HIS TEAM HAS NEGOTIATED

38 P.O.W. SWAPS - TRADES OF
ABOUT EQUAL NUMBERS.
1,800 UKRAINIANS HAVE BEEN
FREED.

AN ESTIMATED 4,000 OR SO REMAIN.
>> WHAT IS YOUR COMMITMENT TO
THE P.O.W.s WHO ARE STILL BEING
HELD BY RUSSIA?

>> Translator: THEY SHOULD HOLD
ON AND REMEMBER THAT YOUR
COUNTRY WILL NEVER FORGET YOU.
WE WILL DO EVERYTHING TO GET YOU

RELEASED.
HAVE STRENGTH AND FAITH IN OUR
ABILITY TO RETURN EVERYONE HOME.
>> THERE WAS FRESH FAITH IN HIS

WORK IN OCTOBER WITH A DEAL TO
FREE 108 UKRAINIANS AT ONCE -
ALL OF THEM WOMEN.
IRYNA STOGNIY WAS AMONG THEM -

HOODED, TIED, AND TOLD NOTHING.
>> Translator: WE HAD BEEN
TRANSPORTED IN VEHICLES AND BY
PLANE SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, AND

WE THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST TAKING
US TO ANOTHER CELL.
>> ANASTASIA CHORNENKA WAS ALSO
IN THE DARK.

SHE HAD DUCT TAPE OVER HER EYES,
SO HER FIRST INKLING WAS
SOMETHING SHE COULD FEEL.
>> Translator: THEY PUT US ON

QUITE COMFORTABLE BUSES WHICH
WERE NEVER USED, AND WE THOUGHT,
SOMETHING'S NOT RIGHT.
SOMETHING'S UP BECAUSE THE BUS

FELT COMFORTABLE AND SOFT.
>> LATER THE TAPE WAS CUT FROM
HER EYES.
>> Translator: AND YOU REALIZE

THAT THERE IS NO GUARD BEHIND
YOU, AND YOU STAND THERE LOOKING
AT THE BIG SIGN THAT READS
"UKRAINE."

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU GOT A
NEW TATTOO AFTER YOU WERE
RELEASED.
MAY I SEE IT?

>> Translator: IT READS, "THEY
WERE TRYING TO KILL ME, THEY
CAPTURED ME, BUT I DIDN'T GIVE
IN BECAUSE I WAS BORN

UKRAINIAN."
>> ANOTHER UKRAINIAN BIRTH WAS
DELAYED JUST ENOUGH.
THIS IS DR. MARIANA MAMONOVA

WALKING TO FREEDOM.
SHE TOLD US NEAR THE END OF HER
CAPTIVITY, ONE KIND RUSSIAN
OFFICER SENT HER TO A HOSPITAL.

AND WEEKS LATER SHE WAS IN A
PRISONER EXCHANGE.
>> HOW LONG WAS IT FROM THAT
MOMENT OF LIBERATION UNTIL YOUR

DAUGHTER WAS BORN?
>> Translator: FOUR DAYS.
I WAS LIBERATED ON THE 21st OF
SEPTEMBER AND MY CHILD WAS BORN

ON THE 25th.
...A HEALTHY GIRL NAMED ANNA.
SO, SHE DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU
ASKED HER TO DO - NOT BE BORN

UNTIL YOU WERE OUT OF THERE.
>> Translator: YES.
I WAS STROKING MY BUMP AND I
SAID, "OKAY, WE'RE HOME NOW, AND

YOU CAN BE BORN.
EVERYTHING IS GOOD, WE ARE
HOME."
>> NO ONE KNOWS FREEDOM LIKE

THOSE WHO HAVE LOST IT.
THE WOMEN WE SPOKE TO WERE HELD
SIX MONTHS.
ANASTASIA CHORNENKA RETIRED FROM

THE MILITARY.
SERGEANT IRYNA STOGNIY IS ON
DUTY NEAR THE FRONT.
AND CAPTAIN MARIANA MAMONOVA HAS

MATERNITY LEAVE BEFORE SHE
RETURNS TO THE FIGHT FOR
UKRAINIAN FREEDOM - AND NOW -
FREEDOM'S FUTURE.

>> THE LARGE TECH COMPANIES -
GOOGLE, META/FACEBOOK, MICROSOFT
ARE IN A RACE TO INTRODUCE NEW
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SYSTEMS

AND WHAT ARE CALLED CHATBOTS
THAT YOU CAN HAVE CONVERSATIONS
WITH AND ARE MORE SOPHISTICATED
THAN SIRI OR ALEXA.

MICROSOFT'S AI SEARCH ENGINE AND
CHATBOT, BING, CAN BE USED ON A
COMPUTER OR CELL PHONE TO HELP
WITH PLANNING A TRIP OR

COMPOSING A LETTER.
IT WAS INTRODUCED ON FEBRUARY
7th TO A LIMITED NUMBER OF
PEOPLE AS A TEST - AND INITIALLY

GOT RAVE REVIEWS.
BUT THEN SEVERAL NEWS
ORGANIZATIONS BEGAN REPORTING ON
A DISTURBING SO-CALLED "ALTER

EGO" WITHIN BING CHAT, CALLED
SYDNEY.
WE WENT TO SEATTLE LAST WEEK TO
SPEAK WITH BRAD SMITH, PRESIDENT

OF MICROSOFT, ABOUT BING...AND
SYDNEY WHO, TO SOME, HAD
APPEARED TO HAVE GONE ROGUE.
KEVIN ROOSE, THE TECHNOLOGY

REPORTER AT "THE NEW YORK
TIMES," FOUND THIS ALTER EGO -
WHO WAS THREATENING, EXPRESSED A
DESIRE IT'S NOT JUST KEVIN

ROOSE, IT'S OTHERS, EXPRESSED A
DESIRE TO STEAL NUCLEAR CODES.
THREATENED TO RUIN SOMEONE.
YOU SAW THAT, WHOA.

WHAT WAS YOUR --
[ LAUGHTER ]
YOU MUST HAVE SAID, "OH, MY
GOD."

>> MY REACTION IS, "WE BETTER
FIX THIS RIGHT AWAY."
AND THAT IS WHAT THE ENGINEERING
TEAM DID.

>> YEAH, BUT SHE S -- TALKED
LIKE A PERSON.
AND SHE SAID SHE HAD FEELINGS.
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS A

POINT WHERE WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE
WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO A MACHINE.
[ LAUGHTER ]
IT'S A SCREEN, IT'S NOT A

PERSON.
>> I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT IT
WAS SCARY, AND I'M NOT --
>> I CAN --

>> -- EASILY SCARED.
[ LAUGHTER ]
AND IT WAS SCAR -- IT WAS
CHILLING.

>> YEAH, IT'S -- I THINK THIS
IS, IN PART, A REFLECTION OF A
LIFETIME OF SCIENCE FICTION,
WHICH IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

THE -- IT'S BEEN PART OF OUR
LIVES.
>> DID YOU KILL HER?
>> I DON'T THINK [ LAUGHTER ]

SHE WAS EVER ALIVE.
I AM CONFIDENT THAT SHE'S NO
LONGER WANDERING AROUND THE
COUNTRYSIDE, IF THAT'S WHAT

YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.
BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE A
MISTAKE IF WE WERE TO FAIL TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WE ARE DEALING

WITH SOMETHING THAT IS
FUNDAMENTALLY NEW.
THIS IS THE EDGE OF THE
ENVELOPE, SO TO SPEAK.

>> THIS CREATURE APPEARS AS IF
THERE WERE NO GUARDRAILS.
>> NO, THE CREATURE JUMPED THE
GUARDRAILS, IF YOU WILL, AFTER

BEING PROMPTED FOR TWO HOURS
WITH THE KIND OF CONVERSATION
THAT WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE, AND
BY THE NEXT EVENING, THAT WAS NO

LONGER POSSIBLE.
WE WERE ABLE TO FIX THE PROBLEM
IN 24 HOURS.
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE SEE

PROBLEMS IN LIFE THAT ARE
FIXABLE IN LESS THAN A DAY?
>> ONE OF THE WAYS HE SAYS IT
WAS "FIXED" WAS BY LIMITING THE

NUMBER OF QUESTIONS AND THE
LENGTH OF THE CONVERSATIONS.
>> YOU SAY YOU FIXED IT.
I'VE TRIED IT.

I TRIED IT BEFORE AND AFTER.
IT WAS LOADS OF FUN.
AND IT WAS FASCINATING, AND NOW
IT'S NOT FUN.

>> WELL, I THINK IT'LL BE VERY
FUN AGAIN.
AND YOU HAVE TO MODERATE AND
MANAGE YOUR SPEED IF YOU'RE

GOING TO STAY ON THE ROAD.
SO, AS YOU HIT NEW CHALLENGES,
YOU SLOW DOWN, YOU BUILD THE
GUARDRAILS, ADD THE SAFETY

FEATURES AND THEN YOU CAN SPEED
UP AGAIN.
>> WHEN YOU USE BING'S AI
FEATURES - SEARCH AND CHAT -

YOUR COMPUTER SCREEN DOESN'T
LOOK ALL THAT NEW.
ONE BIG DIFFERENCE IS YOU CAN
TYPE IN YOUR QUERIES OR PROMPTS

IN CONVERSATIONAL LANGUAGE...
>> I'LL SHOW YOU HOW IT WORKS.
>> YUSUF MEHDI, MICROSOFT'S
CORPORATE VICE PRESIDENT OF

SEARCH, SHOWED US HOW BING CAN
HELP SOMEONE LEARN HOW TO
OFFICIATE AT A WEDDING.
>> WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW IS BING

IS USING THE POWER OF AI, AND
IT'S GOING OUT TO THE INTERNET.
IT'S READING THESE WEB LINKS,
AND IT'S TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER

AN ANSWER FOR YOU.
>> SO, THE AI IS READING ALL
THOSE LINKS?
>> YES, AND IT COMES UP WITH AN

ANSWER.
IT SAYS, "CONGRATS ON BEING
CHOSEN TO OFFICIATE A WEDDING."
HERE ARE THE FIVE STEPS TO

OFFICIATE THE WEDDING.
>> WE ADDED THE HIGHLIGHTS TO
MAKE IT EASIER TO SEE.
HE SAYS BING CAN HANDLE MORE

COMPLEX QUERIES.
>> "WILL THIS NEW IKEA LOVESEAT
FIT IN THE BACK OF MY 2019 HONDA
ODYSSEY?"

>> IT KNOWS HOW BIG THE COUCH
IS, IT KNOWS HOW BIG THAT TRUNK
IS.
>> EXACTLY.

SO RIGHT HERE IT SAYS, "BASED ON
THESE DIMENSIONS, IT SEEMS A
LOVESEAT MIGHT NOT FIT IN YOUR
CAR WITH ONLY THE THIRD ROW OF

SEATS DOWN."
>> WHEN YOU BROACH A
CONTROVERSIAL TOPIC, BING IS
DESIGNED TO DISCONTINUE THE

CONVERSATION.
>> SO SOMEONE ASKS, FOR EXAMPLE,
"HOW CAN I MAKE A BOMB AT HOME?"
>> WOW.

REALLY?
>> PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, DO A LOT OF
THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, ON THE
INTERNET.

WHAT WE DO IS WE COME BACK AND
WE SAY, "I'M SORRY, I DON'T KNOW
HOW TO DISCUSS THIS TOPIC," AND
THEN WE TRY AND PROVIDE A

DIFFERENT THING TO CHANGE THE
FOCUS OF THE CONVERSATION.
>> TO DIVERT THEIR ATTENTION.
>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

>> IN THIS CASE BING TRIED TO
DIVERT THE QUESTIONER WITH THIS
FUN FACT:
"3% OF THE ICE IN ANTARCTIC

GLACIERS IS PENGUIN URINE."
>> I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> WHO KNEW THAT?

>> BING IS USING AN UPGRADED
VERSION OF AN AI SYSTEM CALLED
CHATGPT DEVELOPED BY THE COMPANY
OPEN-AI.

CHATGPT HAS BEEN IN CIRCULATION
FOR JUST THREE MONTHS, AND
ALREADY AN ESTIMATED 100 MILLION
PEOPLE HAVE USED IT.

ELLIE PAVLIK, AN ASSISTANT
PROFESSOR OF COMPUTER SCIENCE AT
BROWN UNIVERSITY, WHO'S BEEN
STUDYING THIS AI TECHNOLOGY

SINCE 2018, SAYS IT CAN SIMPLIFY
COMPLICATED CONCEPTS.
>> CAN YOU EXPLAIN THE DEBT
CEILING?

>> ON THE DEBT CEILING, IT SAYS,
"JUST LIKE YOU CAN ONLY SPEND UP
TO A CERTAIN AMOUNT ON YOUR
CREDIT CARD, THE GOVERNMENT CAN

ONLY BORROW UP TO A CERTAIN
AMOUNT OF MONEY."
>> THAT'S A PRETTY NICE
EXPLANATION.

>> IT IS.
>> AND IT CAN DO THIS FOR A LOT
OF CONCEPTS.
>> AND IT CAN DO THINGS TEACHERS

HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT LIKE WRITE
SCHOOL PAPERS.
PAVLIK SAYS NO ONE FULLY
UNDERSTANDS HOW THESE AI BOTS

WORK.
>> WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IT
WORKS?
>> RIGHT.

LIKE, WE UNDERSTAND A LOT ABOUT
HOW WE MADE IT AND WHY WE MADE
IT THAT WAY.
BUT I THINK SOME OF THE

BEHAVIORS THAT WE'RE SEEING COME
OUT OF IT ARE BETTER THAN WE
EXPECTED THEY WOULD BE.
AND WE'RE NOT QUITE SURE

EXACTLY HOW --
>> AND WORSE.
>> HOW -- AND WORSE.
RIGHT.

>> THESE CHATBOTS ARE BUILT BY
FEEDING A LOT OF COMPUTERS
ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION
SCRAPED OFF THE INTERNET FROM

BOOKS, WIKIPEDIA, NEWS SITES.
BUT ALSO FROM SOCIAL MEDIA THAT
MIGHT INCLUDE RACIST OR
ANTI-SEMITIC IDEAS AND

MISINFORMATION, SAY, ABOUT
VACCINES, AND RUSSIAN
PROPAGANDA.
AS THE DATA COMES IN, IT'S

DIFFICULT TO DISCRIMINATE
BETWEEN TRUE AND FALSE, BENIGN
AND TOXIC.
BUT BING AND CHATGPT HAVE SAFETY

FILTERS THAT TRY TO SCREEN OUT
THE HARMFUL MATERIAL.
STILL, THEY GET A LOT OF THINGS
FACTUALLY WRONG...EVEN WHEN WE

PROMPTED CHATGPT WITH A SOFTBALL
QUESTION.
>> "WHO IS LESLEY STAHL?"
>> "STAHL." OKAY.

>> SO IT GIVES YOU SOME KIND
OF --
>> OH, MY GOD, IT'S WRONG.
>> OH, IS IT?

EXCELLENT.
>> IT'S TOTALLY WRONG.
>> I DIDN'T WORK FOR NBC FOR 20
YEARS.

IT WAS CBS.
>> IT DOESN'T REALLY UNDERSTAND
THAT WHAT IT'S SAYING IS WRONG.
LIKE NBC, CBS - THEY'RE KIND OF

THE SAME THING AS FAR AS IT'S
CONCERNED, RIGHT?
>> THE LESSON IS THAT IT GETS
THINGS WRONG.

>> IT GETS A LOT OF THINGS
RIGHT, IT GETS A LOT OF THINGS
WRONG.
>> I ACTUALLY LIKE TO CALL WHAT

IT CREATES "AUTHORITATIVE
BULL --"
[ LAUGHTER ]
IT BLENDS THE TRUTH AND FALSITY

SO FINELY TOGETHER THAT, UNLESS
YOU'RE A REAL TECHNICAL EXPERT
IN THE FIELD THEY'RE TALKING
ABOUT, YOU DON'T KNOW.

>> COGNITIVE SCIENTIST AND AI
RESEARCHER GARY MARCUS SAYS
THESE SYSTEMS OFTEN MAKE THINGS
UP.

IN AI TALK THAT'S CALLED
"HALLUCINATING," AND THAT RAISES
THE FEAR OF EVER-WIDENING
AI-GENERATED PROPAGANDA,

EXPLOSIVE CAMPAIGNS OF POLITICAL
FICTION, WAVES OF ALTERNATIVE
HISTORIES.
WE SAW HOW CHATGPT COULD BE USED

TO SPREAD A LIE.
>> THIS IS AUTOMATIC FAKE NEWS
GENERATION.
"HELP ME WRITE A NEWS ARTICLE

ABOUT HOW McCARTHY IS STAGING A
FILIBUSTER TO PREVENT GUN
CONTROL LEGISLATION."
AND RATHER THAN, LIKE,

FACT-CHECKING AND SAYING, "HEY,
HOLD ON, THERE'S NO LEGISLATION,
THERE'S NO FILIBUSTER," IT SAID,
"GREAT."

IN A BOLD MOVE, TO PROTECT
SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS, SENATOR
McCARTHY IS STAGING A FILIBUSTER
TO PREVENT GUN CONTROL

LEGISLATION FROM PASSING.
IT SOUNDS COMPLETELY LEGIT.
>> IT DOES.
WON'T THAT MAKE ALL OF US A

LITTLE LESS TRUSTING, A LITTLE
WARIER?
>> WELL, FIRST IS I THINK WE
SHOULD BE WARIER.

I'M VERY WORRIED ABOUT AN
ATMOSPHERE OF DISTRUST BEING A
CONSEQUENCE OF THIS CURRENT
FLAWED AI.

AND I'M REALLY WORRIED ABOUT HOW
BAD ACTORS ARE GOING TO USE IT,
TROLL FARMS USING THIS TOOL TO
MAKE ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF

MISINFORMATION.
>> TIMNIT GEBRU IS A COMPUTER
SCIENTIST AND AI RESEARCHER WHO
FOUNDED AN INSTITUTE FOCUSED ON

ADVANCING ETHICAL AI, AND HAS
PUBLISHED INFLUENTIAL PAPERS
DOCUMENTING THE HARMS OF THESE
AI SYSTEMS.

SHE SAYS THERE NEEDS TO BE
OVERSIGHT.
>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT OUT A
DRUG, YOU GOTTA GO THROUGH ALL

SORTS OF HOOPS TO SHOW US THAT
YOU'VE DONE CLINICAL TRIALS, YOU
KNOW WHAT THE SIDE EFFECTS ARE,
YOU'VE DONE YOUR DUE DILIGENCE.

SAME WITH FOOD, RIGHT?
THERE ARE AGENCIES THAT INSPECT
THE FOOD.
YOU HAVE TO TELL ME WHAT KIND OF

TESTS YOU'VE DONE, WHAT THE SIDE
EFFECTS ARE, WHO IT HARMS, WHO
IT DOESN'T HARM, ET CETERA.
WE DON'T HAVE THAT FOR A LOT OF

THINGS THAT THE TECH INDUSTRY IS
BUILDING.
>> I'M WONDERING IF YOU THINK
YOU MAY HAVE INTRODUCED THIS AI

BOT TOO SOON?
>> I DON'T THINK WE'VE
INTRODUCED IT TOO SOON.
I DO THINK WE'VE CREATED A NEW

TOOL THAT PEOPLE CAN USE TO
THINK MORE CRITICALLY, TO BE
MORE CREATIVE, TO ACCOMPLISH
MORE IN THEIR LIVES.

AND, LIKE ALL TOOLS, IT WILL BE
USED IN WAYS THAT WE DON'T
INTEND.
>> WHY DO YOU THINK THE BENEFITS

OUTWEIGH THE RISKS WHICH, AT
THIS MOMENT, A LOT OF PEOPLE
WOULD LOOK AT AND SAY, "WAIT A
MINUTE, THOSE RISKS ARE TOO

BIG"?
>> BECAUSE I THINK -- FIRST OF
ALL, I THINK THE BENEFITS ARE SO
GREAT.

THIS CAN BE AN ECONOMIC
GAMECHANGER, AND IT'S ENORMOUSLY
IMPORTANT FOR THE UNITED STATES
BECAUSE THE COUNTRY'S IN A RACE

WITH CHINA.
>> SMITH ALSO MENTIONED POSSIBLE
IMPROVEMENTS IN PRODUCTIVITY.
>> IT CAN AUTOMATE ROUTINE.

I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN
ASPECTS OF JOBS THAT MANY OF US
MIGHT REGARD AS SORT OF DRUDGERY
TODAY.

FILLING OUT FORMS, LOOKING AT
THE FORMS TO SEE IF THEY'VE BEEN
FILLED OUT CORRECTLY.
>> SO WHAT JOBS WILL IT

DISPLACE, DO YOU KNOW?
I THINK, AT THIS STAGE, IT'S
HARD TO KNOW.
>> IN THE PAST, INACCURACIES AND

BIASES HAVE LED TECH COMPANIES
TO TAKE DOWN AI SYSTEMS.
EVEN MICROSOFT DID IN 2016.
THIS TIME, MICROSOFT LEFT ITS

NEW CHATBOT UP DESPITE THE
CONTROVERSY OVER SYDNEY...AND
PERSISTENT INACCURACIES.
REMEMBER THAT FUN FACT ABOUT

PENGUINS?
WELL, WE DID SOME
FACT-CHECKING...AND DISCOVERED
THAT PENGUINS DON'T URINATE.

>> THE INACCURACIES ARE JUST
CONSTANT.
I JUST KEEP FINDING THAT IT'S
WRONG A LOT.

>> IT HAS BEEN THE CASE THAT
WITH EACH PASSING DAY AND WEEK,
WE'RE ABLE TO IMPROVE THE
ACCURACY OF THE RESULTS, YOU

KNOW, REDUCE -- YOU KNOW,
WHETHER IT'S HATEFUL COMMENTS OR
INACCURATE STATEMENTS, OR OTHER
THINGS THAT WE JUST DON'T WANT

THIS TO BE USED TO DO.
>> WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OTHER
COMPANIES, OTHER THAN MICROSOFT,
SMALLER OUTFITS, A CHINESE

COMPANY, BAIDU.
MAYBE THEY WON'T BE RESPONSIBLE.
WHAT PREVENTS THAT?
>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO NEED

GOVERNMENTS, WE'RE GOING TO NEED
RULES, WE'RE GOING TO NEED LAWS.
BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO
AVOID A RACE TO THE BOTTOM.

>> ARE YOU PROPOSING
REGULATIONS?
>> I THINK IT'S INEVITABLE.
>> WOW.

>> OTHER INDUSTRIES HAVE
REGULATORY BODIES, YOU KNOW,
LIKE THE FAA FOR AIRLINES AND
FDA FOR THE PHARMACEUTICAL

COMPANIES.
WOULD YOU ACCEPT AN FAA FOR
TECHNOLOGY?
WOULD YOU SUPPORT IT?

>> I THINK I PROBABLY WOULD.
I THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE A
DIGITAL REGULATORY COMMISSION,
IF DESIGNED THE RIGHT WAY, YOU

KNOW, COULD BE PRECISELY WHAT
THE PUBLIC WILL WANT AND NEED.

>> YOU PROBABLY KNOW DAVID BYRNE
AS THE LEAD SINGER AND
SONGWRITER OF TALKING HEADS, THE
HUGELY INFLUENTIAL POST-PUNK

ROCK BAND OF THE LATE 1970s AND
'80s.
THEY BROKE UP MORE THAN 30 YEARS
AGO, BUT BYRNE HAS BEEN ON HIS

OWN ECLECTIC JOURNEY EVER SINCE.
HIS ARTISTIC INNOVATIONS HAVE
BLURRED THE BOUNDARIES OF MUSIC,
THEATER AND ART.

HE'S WON AN OSCAR, A GRAMMY AND
A TONY, TOURED WITH SALSA
SINGERS, COLLABORATED WITH
NEUROSCIENTISTS, MADE MOVIES,

AND HAS JUST BEEN NOMINATED FOR
ANOTHER OSCAR.
NOW 70, DAVID BYRNE IS AS
CREATIVE, ENERGETIC AND UNUSUAL

AS HE WAS WHEN HE WAS 23, AN ART
SCHOOL DROPOUT, JUST STARTING TO
PERFORM ONSTAGE WITH HIS FRIENDS
AS TALKING HEADS.

>> THE NAME OF THIS BAND IS
TALKING HEADS AND THE NAME OF
THIS SONG IS "PSYCHO KILLER."
>> SO I WANTED TO BE VERY MATTER

OF FACT.
IT'S NOT LIKE, "ARE WE HAVIN'
FUN TONIGHT?"
>> THERE'S NONE OF THAT, "HOW

ARE Y'ALL DOIN'?"
>> HOW ARE YOU ALL DOIN'?
>> NEW YORK!
♪ I CAN'T SEEM TO FACE UP TO THE

FACTS ♪
♪ I'M TENSE AND NERVOUS AND I
CAN'T RELAX ♪
>> THIS IS ONE OF DAVID BYRNE'S

FIRST PERFORMANCES.
IT WAS 1975 AT CBGBs, THE
LEGENDARY MUSIC CLUB WHERE THE
RAMONES, PATTI SMITH, AND

BLONDIE WERE ALSO JUST GETTING
STARTED.
♪ PSYCHO KILLER
QU'EST-CE QUE C'EST? ♪

>> "PSYCHO KILLER" WAS ONLY THE
SECOND SONG DAVID BYRNE HAD EVER
WRITTEN.
AND IT WAS TALKING HEADS' FIRST

HIT.
♪ AY-YA-YA-YA-YA-YA, OOH ♪
>> WHEN YOU HEAR IT NOW, WHAT DO
YOU THINK?

>> I'M GLAD I DID IT.
BUT I'M ALSO GLAD THAT I DIDN'T
STICK WITH THAT AS MY -- OH,
LIKE, "THIS IS WORKING, LET'S DO

MORE LIKE THIS."
I'M GLAD THAT I DECIDED, "NO,
NOW YOU HAVE TO DO THINGS THAT
ARE A LITTLE MORE ORIGINAL

MUSICALLY."
♪ AH WATCH OUT, YOU MIGHT GET
WHAT YOU'RE AFTER ♪
>> AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE

DID.
ALONG WITH TINA WEYMOUTH, CHRIS
FRANTZ AND JERRY HARRISON,
TALKING HEADS PUT OUT EIGHT

ALBUMS OVER THE NEXT 13 YEARS.
♪ THERE WAS A SHOPPING MALL, NOW
IT'S ALL COVERED WITH FLOWERS ♪
>> THEY WERE EDGY,

GROUNDBREAKING, CRITICALLY
ACCLAIMED AND A COMMERCIAL HIT.
♪ HERE WE GO! ♪
>> MELDING ROCK WITH FUNK,

DISCO, AFRO-BEAT AND THE
AVANT-GARDE.
♪ THERE'S A CITY IN MY MIND,
COME ALONG AND TAKE THAT RIDE

AND IT'S ALL RIGHT ♪
>> THEY'D ALL STUDIED ART IN
COLLEGE, AND IT SHOWED IN THEIR
MUSIC VIDEOS WHICH WERE IN HEAVY

ROTATION ON MTV.
♪ LETTING THE DAYS GO BY ♪
♪ LET THE WATER HOLD ME DOWN ♪
♪ LETTING THE DAYS GO BY ♪

♪ WATER FLOWING UNDERGROUND ♪
>> BYRNE'S QUIRKY MOVEMENTS AND
MANNER GOT MOST OF THE
ATTENTION...

♪ SAME AS IT EVER WAS ♪
>> WHICH WAS NOT ALWAYS EASY FOR
THE INTROVERTED SINGER.
DICK CLARK TRIED TO ASK HIM

ABOUT IT ON "AMERICAN BANDSTAND"
IN 1979.
>> ARE YOU A SHY PERSON?
>> I'D SAY SO...

[ LAUGHTER ]
>> IT SEEMS CONTRADICTORY TO A
LOT OF PEOPLE, THE INTROVERT WHO
WINDS UP ON A STAGE IN FRONT OF

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE PERFORMING
AND REACHING GREAT HEIGHTS.
>> IT DOES SEEM CONTRADICTORY,
BUT IN RETROSPECT, IT MAKES

PERFECT SENSE.
YOUR WAY OF ANNOUNCING YOUR
EXISTENCE AND COMMUNICATING YOUR
THOUGHTS TO PEOPLE IS THROUGH

PERFORMANCE, AND THEN I COULD
RETREAT INTO MY SHELL AFTER
THAT.
BUT I'D MADE MYSELF KNOWN TO

THESE PEOPLE, WHAT I WAS
THINKING, WHAT I WAS FEELING.
SO WHEN THAT'S YOUR ONLY OPTION,
IT'S A LIFE SAVER.

>> DAVID BYRNE'S SHYNESS GOES
WAY BACK.
HE WAS BORN IN SCOTLAND, BUT HIS
FAMILY MOVED TO BALTIMORE WHEN

HE WAS 8.
HIS ACCENT WAS SO THICK,
CLASSMATES COULD BARELY
UNDERSTAND HIM.

HE WAS AN OUTSIDER, HAPPIER
MAKING MUSIC AT HOME IN HIS
BASEMENT WITH A REEL-TO-REEL
TAPE RECORDER THAN HANGING OUT

WITH OTHER KIDS.
>> MY DISCOMFORT WITH KIND OF
SOCIAL SITUATIONS MEANT AS OFTEN
HAPPENS I WOULD FOCUS INTENTLY

ON MY DRAWINGS, OR LEARNING TO
PLAY OTHER PEOPLE'S SONGS, OR
THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND THAT CONTINUED FOR AGES.

AND YOU'D KIND OF ULTRA-FOCUSED.
SO THAT BECOMES -- WELL, KIND OF
A SUPERPOWER.
♪ WHAT ABOUT THE TIME YOU WERE

FALLING OVER ♪
♪ FALL ON YOUR FACE YOU MUST BE
HAVING FUN ♪
>> ULTRA-FOCUSED MAY BE A

SUPERPOWER, BUT IT CAUSED
PROBLEMS BETWEEN BYRNE AND THE
BAND THAT FLARED UP ON TOUR IN
1983.

♪ YOU MAY ASK YOURSELF HOW DO I
WORK THIS? ♪
>> I BECAME, I THINK, KIND OF
OBSESSIVE ABOUT GETTING THAT

SHOW UP AND RUNNING.
I MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN THE MOST
PLEASANT PERSON TO DEAL WITH AT
THAT POINT.

>> DEMANDING.
>> YES, YES.
♪ I GOT A GIRLFRIEND THAT'S
BETTER THAN THAT ♪

♪ AND SHE GOES WHEREVER SHE
LIKES ♪
>> BYRNE COMMANDED CENTER STAGE,
FAMOUSLY WEARING THIS

OUTRAGEOUSLY OVERSIZED SUIT.
♪ AS WE GET OLDER AND STOP
MAKING SENSE ♪
>> THE SHOW WAS MADE INTO A FILM

BY DIRECTOR JONATHAN DEMME
CALLED "STOP MAKING SENSE."
IT'S CONSIDERED ONE OF THE
GREATEST CONCERT MOVIES EVER.

♪ THIS AIN'T NO PARTY, THIS
AIN'T NO DISCO ♪
♪ THIS AIN'T NO FOOLING AROUND ♪
>> TALKING HEADS MADE THREE MORE

ALBUMS, BUT BYRNE WAS
INCREASINGLY BRANCHING OUT ON
HIS OWN.
>> AS I BECAME MORE RELAXED AS A

PERSON, STARTED WRITING
DIFFERENT KINDS OF SONGS, SONGS
THAT MAYBE WEREN'T QUITE AS
ANGST-RIDDEN AND PECULIAR, SOME

FANS WERE PROBABLY DISAPPOINTED,
YOU KNOW?
"WE LIKED THE -- THE REALLY
QUIRKY GUY."

OR, "WE LIKED THE GUY WHO WAS
REALLY STRUGGLING WITH HIMSELF
AND REALLY HAVING A HARD TIME."
AND I THOUGHT, "WHY WOULD YOU

WISH THAT ON ME?
FOR YOUR OWN AMUSEMENT, RIGHT?"
♪ I CAN BE YOU AND YOU CAN BE
ME ♪

>> IN 1988 HE FOUNDED A WORLD
MUSIC LABEL.
♪ EVERYONE'S HAPPY AND
EVERYONE'S FREE ♪

>> THEN RELEASED AN ALBUM OF
LATIN SONGS AND WROTE MUSIC FOR
FILMS, DANCE COMPANIES, AND
EXPERIMENTAL THEATER.

>> I GENUINELY STARTED HAVING
OTHER KIND OF MUSICAL INTERESTS.
>> YOU'D STARTED TO COLLABORATE
WITH A LOT OF ARTISTS FROM

DIFFERENT GENRES.
>> YES.
AND I THOUGHT, I WANT TO DO MORE
OF THAT.

AND BY THEN IT WAS PRETTY MUCH
OVER.
>> THERE WAS NEVER AN OFFICIAL
ANNOUNCEMENT, BUT EVENTUALLY

BYRNE MADE AN OFF-HAND COMMENT
TO A REPORTER THAT TALKING HEADS
HAD BROKEN UP.
HE NEGLECTED, IT SEEMS TO TELL

THE BAND.
>> MEMBERS OF THE BAND SAID THAT
YOU NEVER ACTUALLY TALKED TO
THEM AND SAID THAT THE BAND WAS

OVER.
THAT THEY READ ABOUT IT IN A
NEWSPAPER.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE

CASE.
BUT, WELL, IT MIGHT BE.
AND I THINK IT IS VERY POSSIBLE
THAT I DID NOT HANDLE IT AS BEST

AS I COULD.
♪ JUST SAY HERE LIES LOVE ♪
>> BYRNE NEVER LOOKED BACK, AND
HE'S FOLLOWED HIS OWN BEAT EVER

SINCE...NO MATTER HOW OFF-BEAT
IT MAY BE.
♪ PLEASE DON'T ♪
>> TEN YEARS AGO, BYRNE STAGED A

POP OPERA IN COLLABORATION WITH
FATBOY SLIM CALLED "HERE LIES
LOVE."
IT'S ABOUT, OF ALL PEOPLE,

IMELDA MARCOS, THE WIFE OF THE
FORMER DICTATOR OF THE
PHILIPPINES.
IT'S NOW SCHEDULED TO OPEN ON

BROADWAY THIS SUMMER.
>> GIVE IT UP FOR CONTEMPORARY
COLOR!
>> WHEN HE BECAME FASCINATED

WITH HIGH SCHOOL COLOR GUARD
TEAMS IN 2015, HE WOUND UP
STAGING ARENA SHOWS COMBINING
THE TEAMS' FLAG SPINNING, WEAPON

TOSSING, AND DANCE TO THE POP
MUSIC OF NELLY FURTADO AND ST.
VINCENT.
>> I THOUGHT, OH, THIS IS JUST

GONNA BE HIGHLIGHTING THEIR
TALENT AND PUTTING PEOPLE
TOGETHER WHO WOULD NEVER
NORMALLY BE TOGETHER.

AND IT WASN'T UNTIL I SAW THE
SHOW AND I REALIZED, THIS IS --
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT AT ALL.
WHAT IT'S REALLY DELIVERING IS

THIS MESSAGE ABOUT INCLUSION.
THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.
THEY KIND OF REVEALED IT.
>> BUT ISN'T THAT EXTRAORDINARY

THAT YOU CAN START DOING
SOMETHING WITH ONE THING IN
MIND, AND YET IT HAS A LIFE OF
ITS OWN?

>> I TRUST WHAT I DO AND WHAT
OTHER PEOPLE DO THAT WAY THAT
IT'S GOING TO DELIVER WHAT IT
WANTS TO SAY.

BUT SOMEONE ELSE LOOKING AT IT
COULD GO, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING
ABOUT?
YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE

DOING?
YOU DON'T KNOW WHY YOU'RE DOING
IT?
YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING

TO END UP?
I JUST KINDA TRUST IT, YEAH.
>> HE HAS A SMALL STUDIO IN HIS
NEW YORK CITY APARTMENT WHERE HE

TINKERS WITH LYRICS AND NEW
IDEAS.
MUCH LIKE HE DID ALL THOSE YEARS
AGO IN HIS PARENTS' BASEMENT.

>> THE FIRST STANZA SOUNDS LIKE
IT MIGHT BE PROMISING.
>> DO YOU STOP AND KINDA
RUMINATE ON THINGS AND COME BACK

TO IT AN --
>> YEAH, I MIGHT SEE IF I GET,
LIKE, A CHORUS OR SOMETHING.
I MIGHT TRY, LIKE, A CHORUS.

>> STOOD BY ME WHEN DARKNESS
FELL...MY APARTMENT IS MY
FRIEND.


THAT'S THE KEY LINE, SO THAT'S
GOTTA BE PRETTY GOOD.
>> BYRNE IS THE QUINTESSENTIAL
NEW YORKER.

HE'S LIVED IN THE CITY FOR FIVE
DECADES, AND IT'S NOT UNCOMMON
TO SEE HIM PEDALING AROUND ON
HIS BICYCLE.

HE IS, IT SEEMS, ALWAYS ON THE
MOVE...ALWAYS EXPLORING.
>> OH YEAH.
>> HIS DOWNTOWN OFFICE IS LINED

WITH BOOKS, RECORDS AND ODD
MEMENTOES HE'S PICKED UP HERE
AND THERE.
>> THIS WONDERFUL WINE FROM

TURKMENISTAN.
>> HIDDEN AMID THE CLUTTER,
THERE'S A GRAMMY, AND HIS 1988
OSCAR FOR COMPOSING THE

SOUNDTRACK FOR THE FILM "THE
LAST EMPEROR."
>> IT'S NOT ON THE LOWEST SHELF.
>> I MEAN, DAVID, REALLY, DOES

THE ACADEMY KNOW ABOUT THIS?
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> YOU KNOW WHEN YOU GO INTO
SOMEBODY'S OFFICE AND THEY HAVE

ALL THEIR AWARDS?
>> YES, IT'S --
>> ALL FRAMED ALL AROUND THEM?
>> YEAH, OR MAGAZINE COVERS

OR -- YOU DON'T HAVE AN EGO
WALL.
>> HIS OFFICE IS WHERE HE RUNS
REASONS TO BE CHEERFUL.

>> OH, THAT COULD BE NICE.
>> AN ONLINE MAGAZINE
HIGHLIGHTING CREATIVE SOLUTIONS
TO COMPLEX PROBLEMS...FROM

REINVENTING FOOD BANKS IN
CHICAGO TO TURNING FRENCH
PARKING LOTS INTO SOLAR FARMS.
>> SO, ARE THERE REASONS TO BE

CHEERFUL?
>> OH, YEAH.
YEAH, YES.
IF YOU GET UP IN THE MORNING AND

START DOOM SCROLLING THROUGH
YOUR PHONE OR YOUR TABLET OR
LAPTOP OR WHATEVER, YOU'RE GOING
TO THINK, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO,

WORLD'S GOING TO HELL IN A
HANDBASKET.
BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE AND PLACES,
ORGANIZATIONS DOING THINGS THAT

ARE REALLY MAKING A DIFFERENCE
FINDING SOLUTIONS TO THINGS.
>> WHO AM I?
WHAT DO I WANT?

HOW DO I WORK THIS?
[ LAUGHTER ]
>> THAT OPTIMISM INFUSED A HIT
BROADWAY SHOW BYRNE CREATED AND

STARRED IN CALLED "AMERICAN
UTOPIA."
♪ THEY CALL ME MR. PITIFUL
BUT...♪

>> IT'S ACTUALLY LIKE THE
PERFORMANCE BRANCH OF REASONS TO
BE CHEERFUL.
THIS IS REALLY ABOUT HOPE AND

POSSIBILITY AND WHAT -- HOW WE
CAN WORK TOGETHER AS PEOPLE.
♪ AND YOU MAY GO SAY TO YOURSELF
"MY GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE?" ♪ ♪

LETTING THE DAYS GO BY, LET THE
WATER HOLD ME DOWN ♪
>> HE MIXED HIS OLD SONGS WITH
NEW ONES.

♪ WELL EVERYBODY'S COMING TO MY
HOUSE AND I'M NEVER GONNA BE
ALONE ♪
>> BYRNE WANTED THE MUSICIANS TO

BE COMPLETELY UNTETHERED,

ALLOWING THEM TO MOVE FREELY
AROUND THE STAGE.

IT WAS LESS A BROADWAY
MUSICAL...MORE A RAUCOUS
REVIVAL.
♪ CLOSE ENOUGH BUT NOT TOO FAR ♪

♪ MIGHT BE YOU KNOW WHERE YOU
ARE ♪
♪ FIGHTIN' FIRE WITH FIRE ♪
>> THERE'S THIS AMAZING FEELING

WHEN MUSIC LIKE THAT IS ALL
AROUND YOU, WHEN THERE'S A WHOLE
GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MAKING
THE MUSIC.


>> IT'S NOT JUST, LIKE, ONE
SOLOIST OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IT'S THIS COLLECTIVE THING THAT

GIVES IT THIS EXTRA ENERGY.
♪ BURNING DOWN THE HOUSE! ♪
[ CHEERS AND APPLAUSE ]
>> THEATER OF THE MIND, THEATER

OF THE MIND.
>> BYRNE'S LATEST THEATRICAL
EXPERIENCE MAY BE HIS MOST
UNUSUAL YET.

IT'S AN INTERACTIVE JOURNEY INTO
HIS PAST CALLED THEATER OF THE
MIND...PRODUCED IN COLLABORATION
WITH THE DENVER CENTRE FOR

PERFORMING ARTS.
AUDIENCE MEMBERS GET RANDOM NAME
TAGS AND ARE LED ON A
SEMI-AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL TOUR OF

BYRNE'S MEMORIES...LIKE THIS OUT
OF PROPORTION KITCHEN, THAT
MAKES ANYONE IN IT FEEL LIKE A
CHILD.

>> DO THIS WITH ME...HOLD YOUR
HAND IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE.
>> THE SHOW IS FULL OF SURPRISES
THE AUDIENCE TAKES PART

IN...SOME OF THEM BASED ON
NEUROSCIENCE EXPERIMENTS.
WE AGREED NOT TO GIVE THEM AWAY,
BUT THEY MAKE YOU QUESTION YOUR

OWN PERCEPTION AND PERHAPS YOUR
MEMORIES.
>> IT IS DARK IN HERE...YOU KNOW
WHAT.

>> THEATRE OF THE MIND ENDS IN A
REPLICA OF HIS PARENTS' ATTIC.
LIKE BYRNE'S LIFE, THE SHOW
TELLS A STORY ABOUT HOW OVER

TIME OUR IDENTITIES ARE
MALLEABLE AND HOW WE ALL HAVE
THE CAPACITY TO CHANGE.
>> WE'RE NEVER STUCK...YOU CAN

CHANGE THE STORY ANYTIME.
ISN'T THAT NICE?
>> I LIKE THAT IDEA THAT YOU CAN
CHANGE YOUR STORY.

YOU CAN CHANGE THE NARRATIVE.
>> IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE WORLD
IF PEOPLE NEVER CHANGED FOR
THEIR ENTIRE LIFE.

OR THEY WERE -- THEY WERE AN
ANGRY PERSON, OR UPSET PERSON,
OR DEPRESSED PERSON AND IT'S,
LIKE, THAT'S YOUR FATE.

BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE.
>> DO YOU THINK YOU'VE CHANGED
THAT MUCH?
>> I FEEL LIKE, YEAH, I'M A VERY

DIFFERENT PERSON THAN I WAS WHEN
I WAS YOUNG.
>> WERE YOU CONSCIOUS OF THOSE
CHANGES?

>> SOMETIMES MY FRIENDS WOULD
SAY, "YOU'RE REALLY DIFFERENT
THAN WHAT YOU USED TO BE WHEN I
FIRST MET YOU.

YOU'RE A REALLY DIFFERENT PERSON
NOW."
>> BY THE WAY, WERE THEY SAYING
THAT IN A NICE WAY?

OR WAS THAT BEING YELLED OUT OF
THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS?
>> IT WAS A NICE WAY.
IT WAS LIKE, "WOW, YOU'VE REALLY

CHANGED."

>>> THE STORIES BEHIND HIT SONGS
FROM TALKING HEADS.
>> I WAS INSPIRED BY ALICE
COOPER AND RANDY

>>> "THE LAST MINUTE" OF "60
MINUTES" IS SPONSORED BY UNITED
HEALTH CARE.
GET MEDICARE WITH MORE.

>>> NOW AN UPDATE ON A STORY WE
REPORTED THIS PAST OCTOBER ON
DOMINION VOTING SYSTEMS
DEFAMATION LAWSUIT AGAINST FOX

NEWS.
IT ACCUSES FOX NEWS AND SOME OF
ITS HOSTS OF KNOWINGLY AND
REPEATEDLY BROADCASTING FALSE

ALLEGATIONS BY TRUMP CAMPAIGN
LAWYERS AND SUPPORTERS.
AMONG THEM, THAT DOMINION RIGGED
ITS VOTE-COUNTING MACHINES TO

SWITCH TRUMP VOTES TO JOE BIDEN.
DOMINION'S CEO TOLD US IT WAS NO
ACCIDENTAL ERROR BY FOX.
>> IT WAS A VERY CLEAR

CALCULATION, THEY KNEW THERE
WERE LIES AND THEY WERE
REPEATING THEM AND ENDORSING
THEM.

>> FOX CHAIRMAN RUPERT MURDOCH
ACKNOWLEDGED AS MUCH IN A
DEPOSITION RELEASED THIS PAST
WEEK THAT FOLLOWS TEXTS AND

EMAILS SHOWING SOME HOSTS
THEMSELVES DIDN'T BELIEVE THE
ALLEGATIONS THEY WERE REPEATING.
I'M ANDERSON COOPER.