30 for 30 (2009–…): Season 3, Episode 38 - Lance Part 2 - full transcript

Do you feel like you want to

be relevant again?


This is going to sound terrible.

But I am relevant.

I am.

[ Chuckles ] I mean,

it just, it's -- and I get --

look, I know that every headline

starts with the word

"disgraced," or "disgraceful,"

or some version of that word


Look, the story is so

polarizing, and it's just --

you're never -- it will always

be that way.

And I know that.

And so I don't -- by knowing it,

I don't expect it to change.

I don't want it to change.

I'm not trying to will it

to change.


It's complicated.

[ Crowd cheering ]

Welcome to the show, Lance.

Thanks a lot.


The event completed less than a

week ago, right?

On Sunday is the final ride

right back into the heart of


Is that what it is?

That's right.

So, what has your life been

like since then?

Just nuts I guess, huh?

Just nuts.


Just basically nuts.

The Tour De France has fallen

on hard times for some reason.

It's gotten a bad reputation

because of drug taking,

enhancement drug, performance

drugs, blood doping, all of that

kind of stuff.

And yet, you come in, a man

literally, clearly at death's

door, and you dominate the


It's just an amazing thing.

And the press over there, those


[ Laughter ]

No, but I'm serious.

They wouldn't leave you alone,

would they?

They suggested that, "Well, you

know, maybe there's something

about his disorder that actually

makes him a better bicycler."


Well, that's just crap, isn't


Performance enhancing


[ Cheers and applause ]

You and your wife are

expecting a baby?

That's right.

How soon will that happen?

End of October.

End of October, a baby.

You know yet?

A boy or girl, you know?

No, we don't know.

Okay, good for you.

That's a great story, as well.

And here, you know, here in

New York we have the --

1999 surprised everybody.

Nobody -- nobody expected that,

ourselves included.

It just hockey sticked


Yeah, zero to 60 real fast.

Back here in France, there

are still some who claim that

Lance Armstrong's '99

Tour De France victory was due

in part to the fact that

Jan Ullrich, the '97 champion,

and Marco Pantani the

'98 champion, weren't here last


There were years where we all

knew Lance would be

unchallenged, basically.

And Jan was one of the few

riders in the conversation that

could possibly beat him.

There was always this very

high level of respect between

the two of us.

And he was very different.

I mean, the other guys that were

"rivals," I didn't like them.

And I didn't want to like them.

And it was better for me

not to like them.

I thought. [ Chuckles ]

I see these guys now, they're

like...shaking hands,

being nice to each other.

I'm like, "You wimps.

What are you doing?"

Jesus. Get your hate on, man.

Anyway, so with him, it was just

we were very respectful of each


It was a great contrast.

People even talked about a cold

war, the American against the

East German.

Jan Ullrich's upbringing, one

could say, was fairly similar

to Lance Armstrong's in the

sense that they both came from a

broken home.

Armstrong's father left the

family pretty early.

And Ullrich's did, as well.

He grew up in the former GDR.

East German didn't have anything

to be proud of except for their


They got selected at the age of

13, according to how they


People got used to

East German athletes in

particular being these

incredible robotic figures,

that had fallen off a production

line somewhere behind the

Iron Curtain.

He was much more Mediterranean


He was very emotional.

He was someone who struggled

to live the life of a

professional cyclist for 365

days a year.

And it was a shame because his

talent was one of the greatest

talents that professional

cycling had ever seen.

The balance of power was really

established in that first 2000

Tour, and it never really


And in fact, as time when by,

Armstrong's superiority complex

increased and Ullrich's

inferiority complex developed.

That was really the story

of the rest of his career.

He became a perennial nearly

man, Lance Armstrong's whipping


Other than that one Tour

in 2003 where he had him by a

minute going into the last time


And then it rained in Nantes.

And Ullrich crashed.

And as he was going down,

sliding through the roundabout,

I thought, "Okay, that's the

closest anyone's going to come

to Lance.

[ Cheering ]

Lance, as we've mentioned,

you've been on this tour,

coast to coast now.

But one of the big reasons is

you have your book out,

"It's Not About the Bike."

And I went in the book store

last night, and it's, you know,

they'd sold out of the thing.

How does it feel to be a best

selling author?

It's been an amazing

few years.

People like to pick apart the


But the book was...

everything in that book was

true, except for when I say or

address doping, you know, and

take a position against it and

take a position against the

people who are accusing me of


Everything else is true.

I had no idea how

inspirational that book would

become, regardless of any

athletic achievement.

What it meant for so many people

that got sick with cancer, that

read that book, that were

inspired to fight.

As Lance started being more,

you know, getting more famous

and winning more Tours, there

was a lot riding on that.

He's about to become only the

fifth rider in the 98-year

history of the Tour De France

to win this race three

consecutive times.

Because he's an inspiration

to people everywhere, we chose

Tour De France winner

Lance Armstrong as the most

fascinating person.

He's used his fame to spread

his message of hope.

Hey, everybody.

"The obligation of the cure,"

he calls it.

A young athlete gets asked

by Wheaties to be on the box,

I was almost stunned.

I thought that that would never

happen to me.

There was the team that he

was supporting, a sport that he

was building.

Companies that were growing.

And this was like, he had this

on his shoulder.

It is a money machine story.

There is no doubt.

And that's what I always said.

I said, "Hey, it's

Lance Armstrong Incorporated


And then there's Livestrong that

sits over here completely

separate, that is doing what it

can to fight cancer.

It wasn't like all of a

sudden, "Hey, guys, just FYI,

I've been doping."

Like, that's just not going to

happen, right?

I was like, "I can never be

honest about this."

Because all of this momentum

and profitability and goodness

will come crashing down.

2001, we have 9/11.

Lance Armstrong's won three

Tour De Frances.

Goes and wins another one.

All the praise that we put

upon him was all well deserved.

I was never a teammate with

Lance, but my friends were.

And I asked them, how much of

this is mythology, and how much

is it real?

And they would universally say

"No, he's a bad ass."

Oh, and Beloki's gone down.

Armstrong's off the road, as


Armstrong complete control


He's into the field, but what a

great bike rider.

He's gone across.

This is unbelievable.

I've never seen this before.

Armstrong went across the field,


He's back on the road at 4

kilometers to go.

I was in the press room when

that happened, and even

reporters who absolutely could

not stand the man gasped.

Like...[ Gasps ]

Did that just happen?

I've watched that footage a

thousand times.

I still can't believe that he

didn't fall down.

Right here.


It's just amazing to see

somebody who's an athlete of

that caliber, who's been through

what he's been, to come back and

conquer the world of cycling.

[ Applause ]

There was a point in Lance's

life where he could pick the

phone up and call anybody he


So there was all this

discussion, right?

Is he going to run for Governor?

Is he going to run for Senator?

He just became, you know,

a global figure.

And for somebody like me, this

was like, you know, the

sculpture of David.

You know, it was sort of

perfectly carved already.

He was a great leader at that


You know, he did there what he

did on the bike.

I mean, he was just driven,

passionate, demanded excellence.

You know, was deeply involved.

I think there is this segment

of the population that thinks,

you know, you were doping in

cycling, and you were being

mean to people.

And somebody said, "Dude, you

better start doing something

good," and so then you created

the organization to cover that


[ Camera shutters clicking ]

I never was paid by Livestrong,

and I never was going to be paid

by Livestrong.

Lance was adamant that his

corporate partners support the

organization in a very

significant way.

And he, in several

circumstances, bypassed what

could have been personal income

and said, "No, I want that

directed to the organization."

And Nike was the biggest example

of that.

When Nike came to me with

this idea of making 5 million

yellow wrist bands, selling them

for a dollar a piece, helping us

raise 5 million bucks at


Um...[ Chuckles ]

I was like, "Wait, what?

That will never work."

[ Cheers and applause ]

Listen up, everybody.

America is wrapping its

wrists in yellow.

The yellow wristbands showed

that people wanted to be a part

of something bigger.

Riders in the Tour wore them.

The Olympics in Athens were a

month later, and Nike gave them

out to all their athletes at the


You had a presidential campaign

later that year where John Kerry

wore it every day.

We sold, you know, 20 million

the first four or five months,

and I think there was over

80 million sold, you know, over

the period of time that we were

selling them.

It was a way for people not only

to relate to, you know, one of

the most tragic diseases that

humanity has seen, but also be

part of the story.

It changed the foundation

forever because it brought

tremendous resources, tremendous

attention, international

attention, and with that, just

unlimited opportunity for new

programing and the ability

to impact more lives.

Before the Lance Armstrong

Foundation, what it was like to

have cancer was totally


It was much more private and

much more isolated.

Lance removed the stigma of

being a young adult with cancer.

It wasn't something to be

ashamed of or embarrassed about.

It almost put you in like the

cool kids club of, "Yeah, I

have cancer, watch out.

I'm tough, I'm a survivor."

Young adults with cancer.

Those issues are totally

different than little kids with

cancer or old people with


There wasn't a movement to bring

it all together.

We wanted to fix all that.

How do we make a difference?

How do we demand change?

How do we ask leadership --

I spent probably the better

part of a year going around

to his cancer events, to see for

myself what was going on there.

One of his stops was at a

children's hospital to see young

cancer patients.

And he would not allow me to go

in the rooms with him.

He was like, "No, this is not a

media event.

I'm doing this for these kids."

Alright, if you want to be

totally cynical and tell me that

was for show, but I don't think


I don't think so.

I'm not saying that makes

anything else that he did okay.

But I'm not willing to say that

there was not a sincere molecule

in his body.

I've seen him be the last guy

to see people.

The last guy.

He would come out, and he would

be a...wreck.

A wreck.

Getting cancer is a really...

scary thing.

And, man, when you emerge from

the other end and you're not

dead, it's pretty cool.

And you wanted other people to

realize that you've got hope

in your life.

And frankly, he had the

resources to turn that into

something that benefited a lot

of people.

But if it wasn't a cynical tool

from the start, I think towards

the middle and on, I think it


I mean, we used to refer to it

as "the cancer shield."

It certainly was an influence

in the way people thought about

him and their unwillingness to

believe that it could even be

possible that he was doping.

It is unfair to say that I

used Livestrong as a shield.

That's -- the organization was

too legitimate.

We did too many good things and

too much good work.

Now, I do think, and it's, I'll

admit, I mean, I used cancer

occasionally as a shield, which

is just...stupid.

I came out of a life threatening


I was on my death bed.

You think I'm going to come back

into a sport and say, "Okay,

okay, Doctor, give me everything

you got, I just want to go


No way.

A guy who comes back from

arguably, you know, a death

sentence, why would I then enter

into a sport and dope myself up

and risk my life again?

That's crazy.

I would never do that.

That's -- no. No way.

In hindsight, cycling and cancer

should have been kept separate.

Lance's impact on the world

of cancer doesn't excuse the


Equally as important, doping

doesn't erase his impact on the

world of cancer.

And I feel like everyone wants

to lump them together and throw

them all out because everyone

wants it to be black and white.

But the truth is, it's gray.

I truly believe if you are

diagnosed with cancer in America

today, you're experience is

better than it was pre-Lance

and pre-Livestrong.

Irrefutably better.

I had cancer at 22 and again at


I was a healthy young adult.

I ran a marathon the day before

I was diagnosed.

Cancer treatments like

chemotherapy and radiation can

cause infertility.

Or cancer treatments can be


But most doctors at the time

weren't forthcoming with that


My own doctor was going through

all the side effects of

chemotherapy and didn't mention


In the waiting room was a

magazine with the story about

Lance and Kristen and how they

had just had a bouncing baby boy

because Lance had banked his

sperm and they had done

fertility treatments.

And so here I was a young adult

cancer patient, and I didn't

learn about my fertility risks

from the doctors at the top

cancer centers.

I learned about my fertility

risks from Lance.

[ Baby crying ]

He's such a little talker.

Unbelievable the way he was


Give us a jump. Go jump.

To see him now, he's so normal

and perfect.

I still can't figure it out.

It was really sort of a taboo

subject that was kept in the

closet, and Lance was just open

about it.

I think I called Stamford five

or six times, and someone

answered the phone by mistake,

like, after hours, and said,

"Oh, we have a new egg freezing

program for cancer patients.

You would be one of the first,

come in tomorrow."

And two weeks later, my eggs

were frozen and I started

chemotherapy on time.

And today, I have four children.

At Fertile Hope, we started

the first ever financial

assistance program to help

cancer patients pay for

fertility treatments in that

short time frame.

That program still exists today

at Livestrong.

It has helped more than 10,000

patients and saved them more

than $50 million.

And there have been thousands

of babies born because of Lance

and Livestrong's work around

cancer survivorship.

[ Groans ]


I'm Luke David Armstrong,

and I'm Lance's son.

I never really bring it up who I

am because I feel like that

would make me come off as

someone that I'm not.

I mean, it is part of who I am,

but at the end of the day, it's

not, like, what describes me.

There's so much more than that.

Would you ever take

performance enhancing drugs?

I mean, me specifically, I've

always felt like grinding for

something, and really, like,

working for a specific goal has

always been so much more worth

it than taking the short cut.

And I also feel that like if I

ever did that and got caught,

for random people, they would be

like, "He's just like his dad."

What's up with your chain out


It rains.

You haven't ridden that bike

in --

Every day I ride it.

Well, the chain's way too


I know. It's kind of weird.

I have a week left.

I was going to bring it back.

And get it tuned up?


Good idea.

How would you feel if your

son told you that he wanted to

take performance enhancing


If we were put in that

position where Luke, who's a

college football player came to

me and said either, "I'd like to

try this, or I am doing this,"

I would say, "That's a bad


I mean, you're a freshman in

college that's, you know --

it might be a different

conversation if you're in the


But at this point in your life

and in your career, not worth


[ Applause ]

Well, thanks, boys.

Hopefully -- I'm not a football

coach so hopefully I can project


But this idea of work and

process, quite honestly, that

was my favorite part of the


Whether it's diet, sleep,

strength work, tactics, morale.

I mean, all of this minutiae,

the small things, truly, truly


And so, you know, I'm proud of

all you guys.

I'm obviously proud of number


I think it was important that

I played football because it

wasn't cycling.

So I had my own path to, like,

be myself, to be Luke and not to

be Lance's son.

What do we say?

What do they say here at Rice?

Like, you know, what's the

battle cry?

Rice fight never dies.

Rice fight never dies.

So it's not like "woo woo."

[ Laughter ]

You say "Rice fight," and

they'll respond to you.

Rice fight --

Never dies!

Rice fight --

Never dies!

Man, alright, thanks, boys.

He'll be rocking.

Your mom's coming.


And your grandparents.

And I'm 35 for the scrimmage.

Not 48? Oh.

But that's easy to confuse.

You've worn 48 the whole spring.

I know, I know, I get it.

But he said 48, and I was like,

"Oh, no, I'm 35."


Nice meeting you.

Love you.

Good to meet you.

Yeah. 35.


He's out there.

Do you like the snow?

No, I don't love snow.

No, I -- I stop short of hating

snow, but I'm not a big fan.

There was a lot of reasons to

make the move for now.

Quite frankly, you know,

settling the Postal case I think

it was a good thing.

But it still cost $6.5 million.

So, you know, just at this point

in my life, until a few things

significant happen on the

financial side, it was just

easier to sell the home in

Austin, take the proceeds, and

just get that thing out of my




What is this?!

[ Chuckles ]

Oh, my gosh!

Olivia, do you want to come

with me?

No, I want to go by myself,

I just want to real quick.

Okay. Alright.

You want to race me?

[ Laughter ]

Aaah! I can't steer!

[ Laughs ]

Watch out! Watch out!

Don't crash into me!

[ Screams ]

Hey, could be worse.

I could be Floyd Landis.

What, living in Leadville?

Waking up a piece of...every


Is that what you think?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's what I know.

I don't think it. I know it.

I hope he's changed, and I

hope he's finding some peace.

I don't know why people can't

move on, but here we are.

I grew up in Lancaster County,

Pennsylvania, in the Mennonite


It had some beliefs that are

unique to their way of life.

I got interested in cycling as a

kid in high school, and my

parents were not particularly

enthusiastic about my obsession

with it.

It took them a while to accept


For me it was a way to go make

sense of the world.

At the time that I got hired by

the Postal Service team, they

had already won the

Tour De France three times with

Armstrong, and so he was about

as big a star as you could be at

that point.

That part made it easier for

Armstrong to control this group

of guys.

He was the boss, and there was

no ambiguity there.

They said that you were the

loud kind of outspoken guy on

the team.

Where does that come from?

Uh...[ Chuckles ]

I don't necessarily like to be

described as loud.

But I guess occasionally I speak

my opinion more than others.

Floyd was a former teammate

of mine, a beloved teammate of


I loved racing with Floyd.

He's a lot of fun.

Floyd is an interesting


He doesn't play by the rules

that everybody plays by.

He's a free spirit.

And I had my own challenges that

I saw Floyd go through.

I was on a team that went

bankrupt midway through the

year, with Floyd.

And I saw what happened when he

felt cornered and didn't have


I've had to work a little

harder than some people.

I haven't had as many breaks in

this sport.

And it's been 10 years getting

to this team and to the top

level and to be able to race

with Lance in the

Tour De France.

And I've had to fight my way

here so I don't really like to

put up with, you know, petty

little, what do you call them?

Traditions maybe.

[ Chuckles ]

Despite the difficulty of it

and the amount of time and

determination it takes, the

personalities are not

particularly aggressive.

They're often really introverted

people who just like to spend

time riding a bike by themselves

a lot or near other people

without saying anything.

What people see, they see

George Hincapie and think, "Oh,

he's a tough guy."

He's not. He just isn't.

I mean, Lance is.

Lance is a tough, hard...

But the rest of them were not.

And so they'll just take

whatever beatings they get and


If you were going to be on

Lance's team, you were there to

work for him.

And one by one, those guys

started getting frustrated with

that, wanted the respect,

wanted the higher contracts,

which is just normal.

And one by one, they'd leave.

What do you think?

I helped Lance win his first

three Tours, so I could look

back three years and look ahead

three years and see myself in

the exact same position, doing

the exact same thing.

And I never wanted to look back

at the end of my career and say,

"You know, I wish I had done


You know, a lot of people told

me like, "Hey, you know, you

have the talent to compete in a

race like the Tour."

So I thought I should give it a


When we were teammates, we were

friends, and then not so

friendly anymore after we parted


Or I after I left the team.

He wanted to go to another

team and be a team leader and

try to win the Tour, and he's

going to win the Tour.

And you don't want that guy

on your team.

You have a guy on the team that

thinks he can win the Tour?


There's the door.

In 2004, kind of a warm up

race for the Tour De France

called the Dauphin?.

I beat him in this time trial up

Mount Ventoux.

And, you know, I've heard from

sources that he was pissed.

And he called the UCI.

This is what I was told.

And said, "You got to get this


And sure enough, they called

that night.

So I don't know.

It most likely happened.

If I had to guess one way or the

other, I'd guess yes, that he

had something to do with, you

know, me getting caught.

I think it would be difficult

to overstate the power that

Lance had in the American

cycling industry, in the sport

of cycling for America, and even

globally to everybody involved

in the sport of cycling.

He was unbelievably powerful.

Let's talk about

Lance Armstrong.

What are his greatest strengths

as a rider?

I think Lance is incredibly


I mean, I think he has a great

tactical sense.

I think he has...

He's got a fire in his belly to


I idolized Greg LeMond.

When he won the Tour De France

in 1989 in such dramatic

fashion, I mean, it's the

greatest Tour De France victory

of all time.

And I say that now, and I mean


Greg LeMond is the fastest

man at all the intermediate

checks, over all the 136

cyclists who have gone before


LeMond's time represented an

average speed of 34 miles an


No Tour De France time trial has

ever been quicker.

Nothing's even close.

I mean, for me, it was super

inspiring to see that, and that

was when I was transitioning

from triathlon to cycling.

So it was perfect time for me.

[ Cheers and applause ]

There was no denying he was a

bad ass bike racer.

I mean, one of the best ever.

He was supportive the first

couple years.

Then the Ferrari relationship

was made public.

Greg LeMond made some comments

that this is either an amazing

story or he's the biggest fraud

in the history of --

You know, pretty harsh things.

I didn't say he's taking


That's his interpretation of

what I was saying.

I got a phone call from Lance.

He just said, "You know, I

thought we were friends."

I thought we were friends.

And he said, "Well, if you want

to throw stones, I can throw


The extent of the "bullying"

with Greg, which is all true,

is we were both under this Trek

family, Trek Bikes family.

I was riding Treks.

He had his line at Trek, his own

LeMond line.

And he was becoming more and

more vocal.

LeMond had a bike company

that was part of Trek, which was

Lance's big sponsor.

And Lance used his muscle, his

influence to, in a lot of ways,

ruin LeMond's business.

In how you treated people,

what is the worst thing that you


What is the worst thing?

Everybody in the world needs to

get this question.

What is the worst thing you've

ever done?

Don't deflect.

No, no, no, I'm thinking.

I'm going to answer your


You can think in silence.

Well, cut that out.

You don't need to use that part.

I mean, Jesus, edit.

Probably the way I treated and

spoke about Emma O'Reilly.

That's probably the worst.

I was a soigneur.

Somebody who looks after riders.

I kind of thought if I ever did

want to speak out, it was to do


My whole thing really was about

the UCI.

It's them that are creating this


It annoyed me that the whole

system was set up not to protect

the riders.

You know, that the riders were

just fodder for other peoples

grand plans.

David Walsh got in touch with


And I thought, you know, he

could make this a helpful,

constructive article about the

problems in cycling.

I was feeling really guilty.

And that's stayed with me for a

long time.

Over being disloyal to my

teammates and to the riders.

Then Pantani died.

Pantani died of an overdose,

but a lot of people say he died

of a broken heart, you know?

Coincidentally dying on

Valentine's Day of all days.

Pantani was an unusual folk


He used to put on these

incredible shows in the


Marco Pantani's moved up to


Pantani's gone over the line in

first place.

Phil, that is unbelievable.

Italy became captivated by

Pantani because to them, he

personified the underdog.

And the Italians always felt

like underdogs.

After 1999, having been

associated with doping, he

almost couldn't face himself,

let alone the world.

The country of Italy

discarded him -- one of their

sporting heroes, who did

everything that everybody else


They discarded.

You grow up being told, you

know, particularly when you're

as a talented athlete like that,

you know, that people are going

to adore you and people are

going to applaud your every


And then you suddenly realize

that your reputation's shot

and you don't have that anymore.

I think that's got to be hard

for anybody.

I think one of the tragedies

of that lost generation of

riders is that the ones who felt

the shame most keenly on their

conscience were maybe the ones

who suffered the most.

And I think that was certainly

the case with Pantani.

Sometimes you've got to stand

up and be counted.

And that's what I said to David.

"Okay, you can use whatever you


I can back up everything I


When David said he couldn't put

in about the UCI and about the

doctors and stuff, I knew I was

in trouble.

I realized it was going to be

more about Lance than cycling.

So now I was left to Lance's

wrath on my own.

We have instigated a lot of

action here.

Every accusation that's come,

every case that's come, we've

sued people, we've opened

ourselves up for investigation,

we've opened ourself up for


And our average, our batting

average in all of them is 1,000.

Do you have any other

evidence to suggest that

Ms. O'Reilly was making up this

in exchange for money other than

the fact that she received some


Emma or Steven?


Oh, sorry.


Pissed at me, pissed at Johan.

Really pissed at Johan.

Pissed at the team.

Afraid that we were going to out

her as a...

the thing she said, as a...or

whatever, I don't know.

To call a woman a...is just

totally unacceptable.


That would be...

It's hard to be worse than that.

So why did you do it?


Well, you know, I had a version

of events in my head that I --

I wasn't trying to say that she

was a...but...

Um...well, why did I do it?

Because I was an idiot and in

full attack mode.

That's why I did it, right?

I would have said anything.

I couldn't be a different person

off the bike.

There was no getting in my way,

and it worked really, really

good for training and racing.

Perfect for that.

It just doesn't work good when

you're dealing with another

human being who's not in the


Paris today opened it's heart

to Texan, Lance Armstrong, who

now is the first cyclist to win

the grueling Tour De France six

times in a row.

[ Cheers and applause ]

It's a great feeling.

Especially nowadays.

Every year, more and more

Americans come here on the


And now it's just lined with

Americans, American flags, Texas


And almost feel like I'm at home

standing up there.

2004 is when the mess

started, where they were

breathing down our throats to

sign a false affidavit

supporting Lance, smearing

David Walsh.

When I refused to do that, it

was just a snowball.

Anybody Lance could talk to, to

smear me, to cast aspersions on

my character, because he wanted

to portray me as some sort of

whacko that you don't want to

believe her.

It was all about protecting the


Lance Inc.

"Cancer survivor."

If you were not on side with

the secret, Lance would just

cease speaking positively of


Which you say, "Well, that's no

big deal."

But when you're trying to be,

you know, a television announcer

for cycling, like Frankie was,

and the largest star in the

sport is Lance Armstrong and,

you know, the producer of the

show asks him, "Who do you think

would be a good announcer?"

And he says, "Oh, well, you

know, this guy and this guy."

And then, "What about Frankie?"

"Ah, mm."

He's very good at making sure

he's one step removed from true

responsibility of his actions.

You understand that although

we're in the conference room

of your lawyers, you are giving

testimony as if you are in a

court of law.

Do you understand that?


The team at the time, managed by

Thom Weisel, didn't have the

money to pay me.

So they insured all of my

bonuses, all of my salary

raises, increases, everything.

They decided, if this guy's

defrauding us and he's cheating

to win these races, they didn't

want to pay the prize money.

And so Lance filed suit against

SCA Promotions, trying to

collect his prize money.

Betsy Andreu went under oath,

Frankie Andreu went under oath.

They said he admitted to doping

in 1996.

Lance denied it.

Tell us what was said during

this conversation in the

Indiana University Hospital


Lance was diagnosed with

cancer, so Frankie and I went to

go visit him.

And we were in his hospital

room, but then he was going to

have a consultation with the

doctors, so I said, "I think we

should leave to give you your


And Lance said, "That's okay,

you can stay."

The doctor asked him a couple of


And then came the question,

"Have you ever taken any

performance enhancing drugs?"

And he just nonchalantly rattled

them off.

EPO, testosterone, growth

hormones, steroids, cortisone.

But I just want to make sure.

It's not that you don't remember

whether that the

Indiana Hospital room incident


It affirmatively did not take


No, it didn't.

How could it have taken place

when I've never taken

performance enhancing drugs?

How could that have happened?

That was my point.

It's not just simply you don't


How many times do I have to

say it?

I'm just trying to make sure

your testimony is clear.

Well, if it can be any

clearer, then I've never taken


Then incidents like that could

never have happened.


How clear is that?

Based on those lies, that

forced the company to settle

with Lance Armstrong and pay him

$7.5 million.

Nobody dopes and is honest.

You're not.

The only way you can dope and be

honest is if nobody ever asks

you, which is not realistic.

The second somebody asks you...

you lie.

Now, might be one lie because

you answer it once.

Or in my case, it might be

10,000 lies because you answer

it 10,000 times.

And then you take it a step

further, and you reinforce it.

And, "Hey...you, don't ever...

ask me that question again."


And then you go sue somebody,

that's another -- and then it

just -- so that's why it was

100 times worse.

Because we all lied.

The most irrational thing

I've ever seen him do was in

2004 when he decided to chase

down this Italian rider,

Filippo Simeoni.

Simeoni had testified against

Michele Ferrari.

Ferrari was Lance's coach for

all seven of those Tours that he


Lance chased him down,

vindictively sat behind him

mocking him.

When eventually Simeoni

came back to the Peloton,

Lance comes up to the camera

and does...

I mean, you cannot get anymore

fundamentally evil than that.

The God damn thing about it,

though, is it was on

international television.

It was horrible and should have

been embarrassing to

Lance Armstrong.

But he was at a point in his

life where he was getting away

with stuff.

I think Simeoni has done

a tremendous injustice to his

sport and to the people that pay

his bills.

When you're that protected by

the organization that runs

cycling, I mean, you can

actually take out personal

vendettas as well as win at the

same time, and he liked that.

That was his thing.

Filippo Simeoni is right up

there with Emma.

To stoop to that level, that's

not what a champion does.

So I needed to go say sorry

for that.

I went there in 2013, so it had

been nine years.

He said, "For nine years, my

entire life is associated with


This is a guy that was a

multiple time Italian champion

at one stage.

I mean, he'd won some races.

But everybody remembered that

day because I was a...

So it just takes, you know,

those days and hearing those

things to learn and to be like,

"Okay, what you thought was bad

was way worse."

Let's welcome Lance Armstrong

and Johan Bruyneel.

[ Applause ]

I will cut right to the chase

and say that after a lot of

thought, I've decided that the

Tour De France will be my last

race as a professional cyclist.

It will be the last one, win or


The biggest inspiration in my

life now and the biggest

inspiration in this decision is

my children.

Ultimately athletes have to


You can't do it forever.

My time has come, and there are

many, many other things that I

need to do in life, so...

Lance Armstrong cruised down

the roads into Paris today to

claim his seventh victory in the

Tour De France.

It was an incredible seven

years for him.

I mean, God, look at today.

Four of his teammates crash

right in front of him, and he

still stays up.

I mean, it's incredible.

The guy -- just he's


He's untouchable, and he's got

seven wins.

[ Laughs ]

Winning seven

Tour De Frances is not easy.

That's 21 stages times seven.

You need, you know, that's more

than a 100 straight days of not

crashing, getting sick, making a

strategic blunder, making sure

your team around you.

That's extremely difficult to do


That takes a brilliant

competitive mind, a real

powerful leadership.

On the other hand, it's not

clear how well he would have

done if everybody was clean.

Lance Armstrong!

But that's what the world

was, and he succeeded in it.

The cynics and the skeptics,

I'm sorry for you.

I'm sorry you can't dream big.

And I'm sorry you don't believe

in miracles.

But this is one hell of a race.

This is a great sporting event,

and you should stand around and


You should believe in these

athletes --

When Lance Armstrong left the

Tour De France at the end of

2005, everything seemed to pale

into irrelevance.

He was the film star that

professional cycling had never


He was the most charismatic

rider that professional cycling

had ever seen.

Lance Armstrong's win and

retirement mean many things, but

perhaps none more important than

this -- Americans will never

have to care about cycling


[ Laughter ]

I think he was just enjoying

the retired life at that point.

He and McConaughey were working

out and just enjoying the beach.

McConaughey at that time was as

famous of an actor as you could

possibly get.

You walk into a bar or a

restaurant, and most of the

people there are like, "I want

to meet Matthew McConaughey.

I'm want to have a beer with


Lance Armstrong was like a whole

different level of fame.

There was not a person in that

restaurant that didn't want to

shake his hand, not a bus boy

who wasn't affected by cancer.

Like, every single person wanted

to meet Lance Armstrong that


[ Cheering ]

Fans have decided the ESPY

goes to...

Lance Armstrong.

[ Cheers and applause ]

He was showing up at parties

that bike racers don't normally

go to.

Thank you, thank you, thank

you very much.

It has been amazing hosting

"Saturday Night Live" this week.

I would say it's been a tiring


He was like the only "A" list

star in American cycling


Did you meet any of your

dad's girlfriends?

Yeah. Sheryl.

She was super sweet.

He dated Tory Burch.

He dated Kate Hudson.

And Anna.

Yeah, he definitely dated

a few people before me.

Um...[ Laughs ]

I've been Lance's partner for

about 10 years now.

And we have two kids.

When Lance and I met, I was

actually living in Vail, working

with a small non profit, working

with young adult cancer


So, yeah, something that kind

of drew us together I think was

our work in the cancer world.

[ Water bubbling ]

A little more Parmesan on

there, I think, honey.

Well, you could help out

with that, honey.

I'm going to put a few more

tomatoes on top.

How do you do that?

Have you ever peeled

a potato?

Uh, no.

Never done that.


Guys, how did you meet?

[ Chuckles ]


[ Laughs ]

True story.

It was a snowy night in Denver.

This is not working.

That's the only part that's


No, you did some nice --

you did a nice long crawl right


Oh, look at that one.

And she was kind of coming on

to me at this bar.

And she chased me down the snowy


And I was literally running.

This is not working.


No, you're doing great.

Okay, let's -- [ Gasps ]

Oh, no! Oh, my God.

[ Laughing ] Oh, my God.

That didn't work very good.

Oh, my God, there's blood all

over the place.

[ Laughs ]

I wonder how deep that is.

You got blood on my cheese.

Call some doctor friend of


Please, right now!

We have all these friends --

Why is this happening right


No, call some doctor person


This is an emergency.

I'm actually getting a little


I swear to God.

Hey, 911!

What's happening?

911. Doc, 911.

Here it is. Are you ready?

Right on the end.

Just the tip.

You know, I would just wrap

that thing pretty tight.

Just wrap it tight as...

Tight as...There you go.

Okay, alright.

Yeah, this isn't rocket

science, really.


Alright, let's wrap this...


Stop it!

Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry,


I think when you're wounded,

you can cuss without --

Max, I'm seriously injured,


Okay, well, fine.

Can I cuss?



Why are you taping it?

Okay, then you can't cuss.

I just wonder who's going to

have the bite of the salad with

my finger tip in it.

Ew, do you think it's in the



[ Gasps ] Oh, my God!

We can't serve that.

That's disgusting.

How annoying is this finger,


Should I put it down?

I'll put this hand up.

I need to elevate it.

My parents got divorced when

I was 1 years old, so I was a

little baby.

I never had to, like, deal with

it because I don't even remember

them being together.

Kristin and I divorced

in 2003, which was not pleasant.

The girls were still in diapers.

I will take

all of the responsibility

for saying, "I'm out."

You know, that was

my M.O. at the time, still is a

layer of that to me, where it's

like, "I'm out," you know.

And she didn't say "I'm out."

She wanted to figure it out.

And I just said, "no, I'm out."

Then I have this relationship

with Sheryl

that lasted for years.

Kristin's going,

"Wait a minute.

We just got divorced,

and now I'm reading in every

news outlet in the world

about my ex-husband,

the father of my three kids,

with this rock star."

It couldn't have been easy.

And the irony is

I wasn't that happy.

This is why I so do not miss

living with or loving

or being in a relationship

with anybody else famous, is in

those situations, you just can't

get out.

And then you're afraid.

You're afraid to break the

cycle, and you just stay in.

And I did it.

I did it way too long.

I should have just said, "No,

I can't do this anymore."

And for that, I'm actually

really sorry.

I should have said

that a lot earlier.

I should have been honest.

Well, the yellow jerseys,

the excitement,

the race to the finish,

everything is in place for the

Tour de France, except the big


Both riders and fans

have been looking forward to the

opening of the post-Lance era.

Armstrong was finally gone.

And it looked as though

Jan Ullrich was going to win.

He was in the best condition

he had been in for a decade.

So he had gone to the

Tour of Italy to prepare.

Towards the end of that

Tour of Italy,

there was a huge story

that broke in Spain,

that a doctor by the name of

Eufemiano Fuentes had been


It doesn't get any bigger.

After 34 years, I think this

will become the biggest drugs

scandal ever within the sport of


Despite proclaiming their

innocence, both Basso and

Ullrich, two of the sport's

superstars, were pulled from the

race after their names appeared

in a 500-page --

That was the last time that

Jan Ullrich was ever seen

at a professional bike race.

He exited stage left

in an Audi driven by his brother

at about 5:00 in the afternoon

the day before the Tour was due

to start.

And most of us

never saw him again.

Others' ambitions may also

now be realized.

Another American, Floyd Landis

on the Phonak team,

may have better fortunes

on the Tour with Armstrong gone

and the front runners


Look at the sweat coursing

down the face of Floyd Landis.

This has been a day

and a half for him.

A man who was dead on

his wheels yesterday

is now just like a superman

of the world of cycling.

Here he comes. Wait for it.

After seven years

of Lance Armstrong.

And they all thought there was

going to be no more Americans

for a while.

They were wrong.

Floyd Landis steps up

to take the Tour de France.

Lance, I'm sure he wasn't

happy that I won the race,

because he had told me directly

to my face in previous years,

that no American was

going to win the Tour de France

while he had the control

of the sport that he had.

I honestly don't remember

much of it.

[ Laughs ]

It's been a long time,

and I spent so much time

trying not to think about it.

I remember it happening

like it was a dream.

The rest of it

went badly after that.

The Tour's winner

Floyd Landis tested positive

for testosterone

following his dramatic victory.

I deserved to win the race.

And that was what

I set out to do --

for me, not for anybody else.

It's unfortunate that

the public has a misconception

of what's going on here.

But that's out of my control.

It's hard lying to people.

I don't like --

I'm not very good at it.

Lance is very, very good at it.

Frankly, he's better at lying

than he is telling the truth.

He's very uncomfortable

being himself.

But I wasn't good at it.

And that's what he was trying to

give me instructions on.

Like, "Hey Floyd, look, you have

to be more assertive with this."

And I just wasn't good at it.

I declare convincingly

and categorically that

my winning the Tour de France

has been exclusively

due to many years of training

and my complete devotion

to cycling.

[ Camera shutters clicking ]

He got torn apart.

He just ultimately was just

ground down.

People I know would be like,

"you know, I heard Floyd's

living in someone's basement,

and he's drunk every day

by lunchtime."

I had hip surgery.

I had my hip replaced I think

two weeks after the Tour.

At that point, they gave me a

bunch of Vicodin and narcotics

and stuff.

So that helped.

I could just drink and check


[ Indistinct conversations ]

I know I shouldn't say that


I mean, I'm not by no means

promoting the stuff.

But honestly in a twisted way,

it probably kept me alive

because I just could check out.

Hey, everybody.

I know there's been a lot of

reports in the media today about

a possible return to racing.

Just want to let you know that

after long talks with my kids,

the rest of my family,

close group of friends,

I have decided to return

to professional cycling in 2009.

Lance Armstrong

is officially coming back.

Lance Armstrong announced

today he's coming out

of a three-year-long retirement.

I said, "you are f'ing


Why would you do that?"

He's like I'm coming back.

I was like, "oh..."

[ Laughs ]

You've got to be kidding me.

Why would you ever jeopardize

that legacy

to maybe win one more?

Like, I think I was looking at

it as like,

"wow, how audacious."

For one moment, I thought,

"man, that is so audacious.

Is it possible I've been wrong,

and he has been clean

the whole time?

Because if he hasn't, this

is ridiculous."

He had gotten away with it up

to that point, you know.

And if he would have just

shut the...up,

it would have been okay.

When I was younger I used

to be like, "oh, like, why would

Michael Jordan try baseball?

You know, why does an old

heavyweight walk into the ring

and then get knocked out when

they already have made


And now I sort of realize that

if you spent your whole life

training to be an elite athlete

and you've succeeded,

you don't want to stop

until someone, like, literally

takes it away from you.

Summer of 2008, I was bored.

For whatever reason, I started

working out a lot more.

And I was getting in shape, and

I was like, "oh, this feels


I watched the Tour,

and Carlos Sastre

won the Tour de France.

Carlos Sastre -- I mean, that

was like, "oh, my God.

Carlos Sastre?"

[ Chuckles ]

Me sitting there in 2008

was like, "he is not a worthy

champion of that event.

And so if he can win,

then I can go back and win."

Was the general consensus

that he rode clean?

I don't know.

Once again, he didn't fail a


But I'm very skeptical.

And the main reason

I'm skeptical is "A,"


"B," he had continued to consult

with Michele Ferrari

during that time.

Yeah, Michele Ferrari

writes great training plans.

But you don't go to him

solely for the training.

Michele Ferrari said to me,

"you cannot cross the line.

They will get you."

Jean-Marie LeBlanc writes

an open letter to me

telling me not to come back.

Jean-Marie LeBlanc

was the most iconic director

of the Tour ever.

You know, he knew how the game

was played.

I was numb reading it.

I remember him sitting there

at this caf? asking me, like,

"What do you think I should do?"

I was trying to explain

to her, who was new to my life,

that this really feels

like a bad idea.

I should have just picked up

the phone and called everybody

and said, "Not doing it.

Not feeling it."

That would have been the smart

thing to do.

I'd have had two days of really

negative press, speculation.

But I would have dodged


It was exciting

for a little bit.

But it quickly got

kind of weird.

I came back

to Johan Bruyneel's team.

But the team that he was running

at the time was from Kazakhstan,

sponsored by Astana,

the capital.

And so it was this mix

of Kazakhs and Spaniards.

He had Alberto Contador

on the team...

[ Speaking Spanish ]

...who had won the Tour before.

And it was just -- mm.

It was -- I got to training camp

in Spain, and I was like,

"this is...lame."

But Alberto Contador now

is establishing himself as

the leader of the Astana team.

Alberto Contador has decided

he wants to lay down the

foundations of a win number two

of the Tour de France this


Out of the saddle he gets.

Once again, lifts the pace up.

Armstrong is defending here

this afternoon.

He hasn't really lost all that


When you look at the riders

who he is racing...

Contador wins the Tour,

his own teammate.

And rather than celebrating

the fact that, "gee, I came back

after a big break and came

in third in the Tour de France,"

he looks totally...pissed.

Floyd was trying to come back

after his suspension.

He went to Lance and Johan

and said, "hey, can you put me

back on the team?"

I think, you know, he wasn't

even looking for a big salary.

"I just want to race my bike."

They said, "no, we can't.

You know, you're radioactive.

We can't touch you."

End of 2009,

we started this new team.

Even if I want, I can't,

because number one,

there was I think 12 or 14 teams

who had signed a private deal

with the Tour de France.

Of course, Radio Shack

was a new team.

We were not part of that deal.

So we needed an invitation.

Even if we were pro Tour,

we needed an invitation.

So I knew for a fact

if I sign Landis,

we're not getting an invitation

to the Tour.

And I knew it was a time bomb.

But what do you want me to do?

Floyd felt betrayed.

Like, "hey, we all did

the same thing.

I got caught.

You could have gotten caught.

I know your secrets.

You know my secrets.

And, you know, you should be

looking out for me.

And instead, you're turning your

back on me."

Everyone is hopeful,

like Floyd was, that he's going

to come back after two years.

In cycling, they call it


It's like the mafia.

But with the mafia, the mafia,

if you have a problem,

the mafia would tell you

be quiet, don't say anything.

We take care of your family.

You know, all organized,

don't worry.

And you come back when you're

out of prison.

Floyd didn't say a word.

And then after two years,

the system said,

"Look, you're toxic.

We cannot take you."

This is why I disagree

with the omert? word.

The fact is that

in a mafia situation,

where that word comes from,

you have a group of people

who have each others back

if something happens.

This doesn't work that way here.

They stab you in the back.

And so I figured, "look,

I took a bullet for you guys.

I fought. I did what I was

supposed to do."

And then when I go to come back,

they say, "No, you're not

allowed back."

Then you know what?

All bets are off.

The contract is no longer valid.

And that's it.

Floyd called Frankie

because he was fuming mad.

Floyd said, "I'll out that son

of a...

I will not put up with him."

And we thought, "Oh, my gosh.

And maybe he'll do something."

I didn't even proofread it.

I knew if I'd read it, I would

change my mind.

I would just -- like, if I hit

"send," then it's done.

Then I've gone down this path.

And I can't go back.

And how did it feel

once you hit that send button?

For about six hours,

it felt fine.

And then I realized, "Okay,

I've got to deal with this now."

So I sent a few more.

I'm like, "Well, I better write

some really elaborate stories

so that if people read it,

they'll say, 'this guy's either

got a wildly overactive


or there's something to it.'"

I didn't have any material


We didn't record anything.

We didn't keep anything --

by design, right?

So by design,

there's no way to prove it.

But I figured, look,

if I write enough detail

into these stories,

people will at least say

"well, it's a fascinating story"

and they'll read it,

if nothing else.

[ Indistinct conversations ]

Everybody set?


Give me one word

to sum this all up?


Floyd lost his credibility

a long time ago.

He has nothing.

He's got no proof.

It's his word versus ours.

We like our word.

We like where we stand.

We like our credibility.

It speaks volumes to his mental

state, and the time

of the day they were sent.

I don't need to fill you guys in

on other peoples habits

and lifestyles.


[ Indistinct conversations ]

In his mind, I don't know

that it was entirely true --

partly true.

But in his mind, he took the

fall for the entire generation.

Again, you know, it doesn't

matter what I think or what we


It matters what he thought.

And so he thought that he

took the fall for everyone

that did the same thing.

And he became a complete pariah.

Everybody wanted to treat me

like I was this evil,

cheating liar.

And then I told the truth.

And now, all of a sudden,

"Now he's a rat.

Oh, now he's turning

on his own people."

So it's like there was a

no-win situation.

But I didn't just say,

"This is what Lance did."

I said, "here's what happened

to everybody.

Here's what I did.

Here's what I know about

everything and everybody.

Do whatever you want with it."

And of course, it became about

Lance because everything's

always about Lance.

And that's the way he wanted it.

So that part, he can't pin

that on me.

That's his approach to life.

"It's about me."

They did what they normally do

is they call my lawyer and say,

"Hey, look, you're going to end

up in prison if you keep this


And, so, I sent more e-mails.

I mean, by that time

committed to that path,

that was it.

I was not going to back out.

Okay, we're not filming

on the way back.

Because this no-music...

is lame.

Who has a question for Lance

knowing -- right out of the


You're ready. Stand up.


You're getting up

a little slow there.

Yeah! He's haggard.

I did 10 laps, though.

Okay, good, yeah.

That's amazing.

How long's the track?

We said 250, right?

You did 2 1/2 K.

That's cool.

You rode a mile and a half.

Everyone give it up.

This man rode his bike

a mile and a half today.

This is going to be good.

Thank you.


At least one decade.

Okay, so they're very --

there are two very different

people here, between --

if it's Floyd Landis

and Jeff Spencer, because I

still consider my relationship

with Jeff Spencer, who I spent

hours on his table with

every night during the Tour,

to be a special relationship.

So I would need to be

more specific on who.

I mean, I will be specific on

Floyd Landis.

There'll never be a



Most people in this story,

I'm fine to just forgive

and forget and let's move on.

There are a few that

I'm not there yet.

And Floyd's one of them.

I mean, you just can't --

it's not forgivable.

In 2010, you have Floyd Landis

who went public.

And then right

on the heels of that

is the criminal investigation

in the United States.

He was kind of freaking out.

Because stuff was starting

to come out in the papers.

He was getting frustrated

and scared.

And a lot of different things

that I didn't totally understand

were happening.

But I had an idea.

And then when legal stuff

started to heat up,

because we're not married,

there wasn't, like, spousal

privilege either.

So he did explain that to me

at one point.

He was like, " "I don't want you

to feel like you're in the dark.

But there's also certain things,

like, I can't really

talk to you about right now

because you're not protected."

Just everything

just got crazy.

Then everybody's worlds

just got completely nuts.

Lance went on full denial mode.

I went on full no-comment mode.

We thought it was just kind of

like a huge press scandal until

I got a call from Novitzky.

Jeffrey Novitzky, who worked

with the FDA,

was looking into drug use

in professional cycling.

Jeff Novitzky was involved

in the criminal investigation.

He was involved in BALCO, which

was the steroids investigation

of Barry Bonds and baseball.

And he took it upon himself

to be some sort of sheriff, cop

of performance-enhancing

substances around sport


Federal prosecutors

in a criminal investigation

have the ability to issue

subpoenas to people.

And when those people

get subpoenaed, they can take

the Fifth, which says, "I have

the right not to incriminate


I'm not going to answer your


But a federal prosecutor has

the ability to respond to that

by saying, "we'll give you


Once you have immunity.

you no longer have the right

to take the Fifth

because nothing you say

can be used against you.

And so you have to answer

their questions.

And if you answer their

questions and you're not being

truthful, you could get

prosecuted for that.

Most of the writers

who testified,

and support staff,

that was the first time

that they had ever told

anyone the truth.

They tried to jog

your memories, so you remember

a lot of this things.

Because a lot of that stuff

at that point had happened --

this was -- I testified in 2010.

So they were talking about

like '95 to 2005.

How awful was that?

Oh, it was terrifying.

Are you kidding me?

I mean, I still had

broken ribs from crashing

out of the Tour de France.

I'm not going to lie,

it was a long eight hours.

The first 15 minutes

were hard.

Then the next 6 hours

and 45 minutes were like,

I don't know, almost like

a religious experience for me.

Like just unloading all this

darkness that had been just --

I kept burying and burying and


I was always surprised at like

how's this been kept under wraps

for such a long time?

It was too big of a secret for

it not to come out, you know.

But I always thought to myself,

"hopefully it comes out, you

know, 10 years after I'm

retired, and I don't have to

deal with it, you know?"

I'm sure that's what the guys

in the '80s were thinking.

One of the advices of the

counsels were like, "you can't

talk to Lance anymore,"

because Lance was still being

very -- was denying it very


For me,

and maybe not obviously,

but it started a long time ago,

started 10 years ago with a lot

of talk and speculation.

Which is, you know,

I think is part and parcel

to being successful

in what is widely viewed as, you

know, maybe a dirty sport.

When you were lying like

that, what was it like looking

at yourself in the mirror?

No problem.

No problem.


I'm not justifying it

or defending it.

But I'm telling you

it was not a problem.


Because it was just part of

the -- I was so used to it.

And it was part of the game.

And it was -- it was --

you just kind of become immune

to that.

I mean, it's crazy.

I'm not -- it's crazy

to hear myself say that.

But that's the truth.

When things started closing

in on him, he wanted me

to call John McCain.

Lance asking McCain

to do something, knowing that

he was actually guilty?


I'm so glad I didn't.

If something had gone south and

somehow it besmirched

John McCain's name, I never

would have lived that down.

For a while there,

there was a possibility

that Lance Armstrong was going

to face criminal charges

and could potentially

go to prison.

I figured they were marching

straight towards an indictment.

[ Chuckles ]

I mean, when it lasts that


There is late word tonight

that federal prosecutors

have dropped their

two-year-long investigation

of Lance Armstrong,

ending an effort to determine

whether the seven-time

Tour de France winner

cheated his way to victory

by taking part

in a doping program.

Armstrong repeatedly

has denied the accusations

that have dogged him for years.

Tonight he released a statement

praising the decision.

When we come back...

It was like a "whew,

like, we're in the clear."

I was like, "okay.

I got off.

I'm free."

And even the day they announced

it, you know, just for them,

if they want to bury it

the day before the Super Bowl or

two days before --

or Super Bowl weekend's

the perfect time to do it,

other than Christmas.

Several of his friends

in his circle

were politically connected.

So there's that theory

that it was shut down somehow

from high up

in the Justice Department.

But I have absolutely

no evidence of that.

That evening, USADA

made some statement, you know,

"we're going to continue

to investigate this."

I was like, "oh, right


The case gets dropped.

And the guys think

they're in the clear.

But Travis Tygart says, "No,

no, I can pick this up.

And I can bring all the guys in

and ask them to tell me

what they told Jeff Novitzky."

We have to clean out

that system in order

to drain the swamp, so to speak,

and put this sport

on a new pedestal.

I remember a conversation

that I had with George Hincapie.

We were telling George,

"Look, here's our goals.

Here's what we're trying to do.

Sit down with us, be truthful.

And we're going to do everything

we can to both protect you

in the public, as well

as get you the minimum

sanction we possibly can.

And we're pushing for amnesty.

And, George, by the way,

if you're talking to Lance,

this is going to be afforded

to him as well.

We're going to be reaching out

to him to have

the exact same conversation.

We touched base

with Lance's lawyers.

They just had their M.O.

already in place.

And they weren't going

to be part of it.

They were just going to continue

to deny and lie and attack.

Their idea of cooperation

was always based on

not just being truthful

about what you did,

but can you help us nail

somebody else?

I did tell Lance to just come

out and say it.

I mean...this is real now.

It's not just the press.

This is like -- and he was like,

"that's not happening."

I was in Hawaii

doing a half Ironman.

I do the race, fly to France

for Ironman France.

It was going to be

my first Ironman.

I'll never forget this.

I'm sitting in this house

that we are renting.

And Pat McQuaid calls me.

He said, "Jonathan Vaughters

just came up to me

and said, 'Pat,

a little surprise tomorrow.'"

He had been talking to USADA.

He didn't give me much


He just said,

"this is going to be bad."

USADA are on this case,

and they're on very strongly"

or something like that.

"And they're, you know,

this is going to go down."

So, you know, you need to

start thinking about how the UCI

is going to react to this.

And he just --

he just didn't believe me.

I mean, his reaction was,

"wait, you're saying

that a bunch of cyclists

testified that not

only did they know about doping,

that they themselves doped.

And then all of this is coming

out in a couple of months?

He's like, "no way."

He's like, "no way

that people have done that."

McQuaid called me, and then

I'm like, "uh-oh."

I hadn't been

paying attention to this.

But sounds like something's

about to happen.

The next day, "boom."

We turn next to the huge blow

tonight for the man who inspired

millions by beating cancer

and winning the Tour de France

seven times.

The biggest watchdog

organization in sports announced

late today

that they now have cold, hard

proof that Lance Armstrong

was doping to win,

which could cost him all his

medals and his athletic future.

Here's ABC's Neil...

A couple of days after that

then Ironman, the organization,

says "you can't race."

So we just turned around

and flew home.

[ Sighs ]

UCI will ban Lance Armstrong

from cycling.

And UCI will strip him of

his seven Tour de France titles.

Lance Armstrong has no place

in cycling.

After they do all this,

it's within their rights

to issue a report.

And the other lawyers said, "No,

it'll never happen."

That "report"

was the reasoned decision.

And it happened.

And it was this thick.

The anti-doping agency report

is based upon more than

a 1,000 pages of evidence,

including sworn testimony

from US Postal Service riders

who had knowledge of Armstrong's

doping or doping by the team.

?I don't think anybody knew

the breadth of the evidence,

that they would have all these

teammates of his submitting

sworn affidavits

that said this is all true,

this has all happened.

The nail in the coffin is the

testimony from George Hincapie

that Lance Armstrong had doped.

This is his friend

saying it now.

Nike, a long-time

sponsor of Armstrong,

released this statement.

"Lance has stated his innocence

and has been unwavering

on this position.

Nike plans to continue

to support Lance and the

Lance Armstrong Foundation."

Nike was the pillar

that was keeping this

whole fraudulent scheme alive.

What bothers me is when

corporations who have lifted

these athletes onto a pedestal

don't then take responsibility.

Nike, calling the evidence

against Armstrong

"seemingly insurmountable,"

ended it's endorsement

deal with the seven-time

Tour de France champion.

Other sponsors followed suit.

When he knew his world

was going to come crashing down,

he went to Hawaii to hide away.

Just to deal with it

with the family.

And I flew out there to see him

just to make sure he was doing


And we played golf

every day in the afternoon,

just the two of us.

And crazy enough,

on the 12th hole,

his phone would always ring,

and it would be horrible news.

Nike, Oakley, Giro,

any one of them,

literally phone calls coming in

from Bart and Bill.

"They're gone, they're gone,

they're gone."

All gone in 48 hours.

Like that, gone.

[ Chuckles ]


I wouldn't change a thing.

I work for myself now.

To Lance Armstrong, that

was lost income to him

to this day, which tells me

he hasn't learned these lessons.

He still is somehow justifying

everything that he did,

because he's talking about

that loss of income

as his price that he paid.

If I was a bank robber

and you caught me,

what would you think if I said

to you and said, "Hey, you know,

you cost me $100 million

of income."

There was

a Lance Armstrong building

on the Nike campus.

And it went from the

Lance Armstrong building one day

to literally overnight

boom, done, off.

Lance Armstrong has taken

some major new blows

in the latest fallout from that

doping scandal surrounding

the legendary cyclist.

NBC's Ann Thompson

is here with more on this story.

Ann, good morning.

Good morning, Matt.

You know, it's been a brutal

24 hours for Lance Armstrong.

He's been dropped by his

big-name sponsors --

Nike, Anheuser-Busch,

and Trek Bicycles.

And he's stepped aside

as chairman of Livestrong,

the charity he founded

to promote cancer survivorship.

Our responsibility was to the

foundation, first and foremost.

I mean, we all revered Lance.

But we had to save

the foundation.

And the only way we thought

we could save it

was for Lance to leave.

In very typical Lance fashion

he struck back,

called us all cowards.

It was pretty rough.

The Livestrong situation

angers me.

If it were me, I would have

said, "you're in time-out,

an indefinite time-out.

But you're still the founder,

and we realize that at some

point, that the dust will settle


And not just you,

but we as an organization --

we, you, me, the organization --

can re-emerge."

I worked too hard

to make it great,

and it's just --

it's a bummer.

A lot of people put aside

their lives because it was

an inspiring story.

And then when you discover

that the emperor has no clothes,

and you realize

that you had taken your life

on a completely different track

because you thought

this was a heroic story

with no bad side to it,

I'm sure a lot of people

are disillusioned.

A lot of people are pissed off

that they were lied to.

Do you wish that you would

have cut a deal with Travis,

because he wanted names?

Was it that you wanted

to protect people?

Did you -- Why?

Look, I've already told you

numerous times, and I'm going to

say it again.

I wouldn't change a thing.

So I don't wish I would have

made a deal with Travis Tygart.

Because if you think about it,

there are three potential

outcomes here.

First, is nothing happens.

I never get investigated,

the Feds don't investigate,

USADA doesn't investigate,

and I just keep going

the way I was going.

I don't want that.

Option two is a hybrid of that

and where we sit today,

which is you struck a deal.

Travis gives you six,

whatever the suspension was.

He says nice things about you.

He maybe calls some of your

sponsors and says, "Hey,

please support him.

He's going to support us."

And you kind of get a pass.

Option three is the one I chose,

where it's like "Nope...you.

I'm going to kick your ass.

Bring it on."

And I lose.


So I'm going to say it again.

I wouldn't change a thing.

Option one and option two

don't get me

to the place where I am today,

sitting right here.

I needed a...nuclear


And I got it.

Yes or no.

Did you ever take banned

substances to enhance your

cycling performance?


Yes or no, was one of those

banned substances EPO?


Did you ever blood dope

or use blood transfusions

to enhance

your cycling performance?


Lance went to Oprah

by himself.

Didn't even tell our team.

He flew -- he was in Hawaii,

flew over to see her at her


And said, "I'm thinking about

doing this.

I'm going to have to do it."

He called Bill, Bart, and I


We were like, "What?"

I remember he said --

I remember during

the conversation, I was like,

"Is this a done deal, or are

we still talking about this?"

He was like, "Well, she's coming

to town next week."

I'm like, "what, for a meeting?"

"No, for the interview."

I couldn't believe

that he was going to do it.

I couldn't believe that he was

going to do it with Oprah of all


My second reaction was "Wow,

what about all these people

who had clung to the hope

that Lance was right

and everybody else was wrong?

What's that going to be like

for them?"

[ Indistinct conversations ]

I want to love Lance.

I still love him, I guess, at


But I think it's really shady

that he kept this from us.

We watched him

win seven times.

And we all just stood

in amazement.

And now to find out

that it was based on lies,

you know, it hurts all of us.

I'd like to think that

at some point, you know,

that he would be forgiven.

But the reality is I think

he burned those bridges

a long time ago.

I don't think there's

anything he can do to redeem

himself in the public eye.

When people were saying

things, David Walsh,

Sunday Times,

Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreu, you

were suing people,

and you know that they're

telling the truth.

What is that?

It's a...

It's a major flaw.

The day before he taped

with Oprah, he called.

And when he called,

Frankie said, "Come on.

He calls us the day

before he's taping with Oprah.

He's just calling her

because Oprah's going to ask,

'Well, did you apologize

to the Andreus?'"

As if two words

can erase a decade-plus of evil.

Was Betsy telling the truth

about the Indiana Hospital,

overhearing you in 1996?

I'm not going to

take that on.

And I'm laying down on that one.

Was Betsy lying?

Um, I'm just not --

I'm going to put that one down.

If he will not admit

that this seminal incident,

which is germane to his

downfall, happened,

you have to question

everything else that he says.

If it makes everybody happy

that I say it happened,

I'm happy to say it happened.

But I'm also going to be honest

with you and say I don't recall

it happening.

Is it well with the two of


Have you made peace?





Because they've been hurt too


And a 40-minute conversation

isn't enough.

Before Lance was going to

do Oprah, he was flying over to


He was like, "I have to sit

the kids down and talk to them."

He had seen his son

having a really difficult time.

And he was devastated by it.

My dad eventually just had

to sit me down and tell me,

"like, that happened.

Like, that's right.

You need to stop sticking up for

me, trying to protect me."

I saw my son defending me

and saying, "that's not true.

What you're saying about my dad

is not true."

You know, he can't...


If it was 2012, I was 12.

Seventh grade, I think.

To receive that news as, like,

a little kid, like, that

really kind of like flipped

my world upside down.

But it was seeing it on "Oprah"

that kind of like really set in.

I don't remember what day it was

but I had school.

And my mom came up to me that


She's like, "Luke, you know

you don't have to go, right?

Like, it's fine.

You can take a break.

You can take a day off."

I was like, "no, I want to go,"

'cause I didn't want to, like,

show that it was really

affecting me.

Watching my son get out of

the car, put on his backpack,

and walk up to his middle

school, and the crowd of kids

standing on the front lawn,

I looked at that kid and he took

a step out of that car

and a step into real manhood.

It broke my heart into

a thousand pieces.

He'd never said, Dad,

is this true?"

He trusted me.


People ask me a lot, like,

"Why did you do 'Oprah'?"

And the reality is, I knew

that I was going to get sued

six ways to Sunday.

And with that comes depositions,

comes trials, comes sworn


So I was going to have to say

those things.

And, so, I just wanted to say

them on my terms.

We have previously had a

deposition where you gave


Is that correct?


We started off this

deposition by you taking the

oath to tell the truth and the

whole truth.

Do you remember that oath?

I do.

And it's the same oath you

took the last time that I

deposed you.



But the last time I deposed

you, there is no dispute that

you gave false testimony.



What assurance do we have

that this time you are going to

tell the truth, when you took

the same oath last time and


I understand

the significance.

You do recognize that there

is a legal obligation that

you are under to tell the truth

in this proceeding, correct?


You do understand

that there can be both civil

and criminal penalties.

Who sued you?

The better question

is who didn't sue me?

It's not a pity party.

Like, no one's sitting there

like, "Oh, poor Lance.

He lost money."

You know, it's the fallout.

It's what happened from, you

know, doing what he did in the


So if you want to take the good,

you got to take the bad.

And he's the first to admit it.

Like, "Hey, I'm paying the

price, but I put myself here."

For a long time, he was just

angry or he was defensive,

or just pissed, you know, that

the whole thing was happening to


I hated the idea of riding

bikes and...

[ Sighs ]

And the sport of cycling.

And I just hated it.

He kind of ran and hid and

just didn't want to talk to

anybody, didn't want to be


Funny, he would tell me he

doesn't read anything about

himself, but I'll mention some

obscure thing mentioned on an

obscure message board somewhere,

and he'll know about it.

And that was a fight for him

for a long time just to quit

worrying about the haters.

George gave me a call and

said, "Hey, man.

You know, I don't think Lance is

in a good way.

I know you're going to be in


I was really concerned

about Lance's well-being,

making sure that he was okay,

first and foremost.

Everyone has their timeline

of how they get through this

process, and --

But by the time I went and

and met him for a drink

down at J Bar, he was

obviously way behind me in that

process, because the amount of

venom that was coming out of him

was -- I've never had to leave a

bar and go have a drink

after the bar.

Like, that was that kind of --

that was that kind of


The last time I saw him was him

doing the same thing for

Jan Ullrich.

Talk to me about why

you went to Germany to see Jan.


I mean...

it's just a terrible situation.

Jan was in that era, right?

He was in that cesspool

that we were all in.

And he got caught

like we all got caught, right?

And so the reason I went to see

him is I love him.

[ Groans ]


[ Sniffles ]


[ Coughs ]

It was not a good trip.

I mean, he was the most

important person in my life.

Nobody scared me.

Nobody motivated me.

These other guys,

whether it's -- you know,

no disrespect to them,

but they didn't get me up early.

He got me up early.

And he just, uh...

He was just a...mess.

When I look at Jan's situation

and I look at my situation,

because they're very similar,

and the timings were similar,

you know, he had all the things

that I had.

He had a wife.

He had children.

He had money.

And that wasn't enough

to keep him together.

And the...sport

did it to him.

And the media let them do it.

The country of Italy

glorifies Ivan Basso,

idolizes, puts him up there,

gives him jobs,

invites him to races.

Puts him on TV.

He's no different

than any of us.

Yet, they disgrace

Marco Pantani.

They destroy him in the press.

They kick him out of the sport,

and he's dead.


The country of Germany idolizes

Erik Zabel, Rolf Aldag,

gives them jobs, puts them on

TV, invites them to races,

puts them on the podium.

And they disgrace and they

destroy and they...ruin

Jan Ullrich's life.


The country of America

idolizes, worships,

glorifies George Hincapie.

Invites him to races,

gives him jobs, buys his...

And they disgrace and destroy


That's why I went.

Because that's...

To say that he is the same

as Jan Ullrich or Ivan Basso

or name your other prominent

cyclists from that time,

it's just not true.

None of them had what he had.

The longer I've been inside

of this world,

I don't even know anymore where

the line is between good people

who do bad things and bad people

who do good things.

There is this, like,

Shakespearean quality to the

whole thing.

You just have to, like, enjoy

the infinite complexity

of the characters.

Like, 'cause there are no

obvious bad and good guys.

Lance didn't invent doping.

This is not --

It wasn't his idea.

And he shouldn't be treated any

differently than

Jonathan Vaughters just because

he's a better athlete that

happened to take the same drugs.

I don't understand how one guy

ends up being the Messiah

that's curing doping

and the other guy's somehow

the outcast.

I'm going to be

naturally skeptical

of whatever Lance does or says.

There's pretty good reason

for that.

But by the same token,

I'm not ruling out the fact

that he may have some other role

to play in some positive way.

I don't know.

30 years of knowing a person,

you either love them

or hate them.

I still haven't decided

where I stand after all that.

I really hated him

for a long time.

But I had to let that go

and just move forward.

With regards to how I carried

myself as the leader of a sport,

the leader of a cause,

the leader of all these



Totally inappropriate behavior,

totally took advantage

of my stature.

And for that, I'm deeply sorry.

And I wish I could change that.

I wish I could have been

a better man.

All I can do is say I'm sorry

and move on and hope that others

do, too.

So that means all that gets to

is how do you sleep at night,


Can you live with yourself?

And I can.