Without Evidence (1995) - full transcript

JIM HILL:
Michael Francke
was the best selection
that the Governor made.

I really can't tell you
just how much of a shock
it was

when he was murdered.

-PETERSON:
Am I speaking with
Kevin Francke?
-Yes.

I'm sorry to have
to tell you this,

but your brother, Mike
has been murdered.

DALE:
The way we see it,
he was stabbed
in the car and then

staggered over to the
north portico before he died.

Believe me, we will do
everythingwithin our powers

to find the perpetrator
of this crime.

DALE:
It's very important
in a case like this



not to let the public
know everything.

In other words,
no talking to the press.

My brother told me
he found something in the
Corrections Department,

and that he was gonna
have to clean house.

Now, I think that has
something to do
with his murder.

Don't get involved
with these people, Kevin.
They're dangerous.

-What people?
-LIZ:
I think you're being
followed.

What do you mean?

Yellow cab, cops are in it.

Put your hands on the car!

It's got something to do with
drugs going into the prisons.

And I think your
brother knew about it.

No, no. This is not
off the record.

I want to talk to somebody
about what's going on.



Do you know who
killed my brother?

He was a state official
here before.

Somebody's gonna get you.

It will always be her word
against the police.

Why don't you listen to
the citizens of this state?

One of those guys
is gonna get you.

Whose payroll are
you on, Unsoeld?

-One of those...
-I find that an
offensive gesture.

I think we can now lay to rest
all the speculation and media
stories about conspiracies.

The autopsy report,
they only sent half of it.

What they did send,
they blacked out most of it!

When they go down,
you're going down with them!

-Are you threatening me?
-I don't need to threaten you.
You're a dead man.

So, what did you
learn from Jodie?

That I'm not done here.

Do you know who
killed my brother?

KEVIN:
Find a different sub
for plumbing on the
Sunnyvale job.

And call Wilkins and see
if he'll give us 15
more days for payment.

KATIE: Kevin?

There's a guy getting out
of a cab that looks a lot
like your brother Mike.

-KEVIN: What the hell
are you doing here?
-I don't know.

God! Oh!

Hi, Katie.

Hi, Mike. How you doing?

-KATIE: Oh!
-This is Sandy Wilson.
My brother, Mike.

-Hello.
-Hello. Nice to
meet you, Sandy.

Come on. I'll show you around.

Linda Maloney,
that's my brother, Mike.

Hi.
Linda Maloney...

(LAUGHS)

-Merle Sorenson,
my brother.
-Hi.

Nice to meet you.
So, where's Bingta?

Uh, Bingta, my wife She's in
Oregon. I was in Atlanta.

I'm going home tomorrow,
but I hadn't
seen you in a while

and I thought my brother
needed a hug here, huh?

My little brother.

Business looks good.

Yeah! Gotta stay
on top of it every minute,
you know.

It falls apart.

Move and shake.
Move and shake.

Fuck.

Sorry.
Nice toss.

Be careful of snakes.

How's Oregon?

It's not New Mexico.

I'm stepping on some toes.

Yeah, what's new?

No, this time it's different.

I better clean house. I found
some things that aren't right.

You serious about snakes?

I killed a moccasin down here
three weeks ago.

All right. This ball's lost.

(KEVIN LAUGHS)

I gotta really move.
Gotta make the plane, huh?

Things okay?

I should, uh,
say goodbye to Katie.

Oh, no, let her sleep.

Here, come on, I got this.

Well, I... You know,
I think, I like the
one with the...

With that patio.

This one?
Yeah, that's it.

Mmm-hmm, okay.

Kevin, you've got a long
distance call from Oregon.

Katie will take it.

She's got them on hold.
It's important.

One second.
I'll be right back. Thanks.

Hello?

PETERSON:
Am I speaking
with Kevin Francke?

Yes.

Kevin, this is Dick Peterson.

I'm the Deputy Director of the
Department of Corrections
in Oregon.

What's going on?

Look, I'm sorry to
have to tell you this,

but your brother, Mike,
has been murdered.

We're all in a state
of shock here, Kevin.

Um, his body was
found after midnight up at the
Dome Building where he worked.

An alarm had gone out for him
earlier, around 8:00

because his car had been found
open in the parking lot.

We did a search
of the building,

but we didn't find him there.

Uh, he was shot, I believe.
At least that's what I heard.

His wife, Bingta,
is apparently out
of town at her mother's.

Do you happen to
have that number?

Kevin?

Are... Are you there?

Kevin?
Yeah.

Hi, I'm Jim Glaister.
I worked for your brother.

We've already
got your brother, Pat.

Hey, listen,
I'm very sorry about this.

What do you know
about what happened?

Uh, did they tell you Michael
was stabbed in front of
the Dome Building?

I heard he was shot.

No, I think he was stabbed,
yesterday evening

around 7:00 or 8:00.

PAT: Give me a big one.

The Governor.

Hi, I'm Neil.

Bingta, I'm sorry.

Pat Francke.
Hi, Pat. My condolences.

Thank you.

That leaves Kevin?
Kevin, I'm sorry.

This is, uh, Dale Penn,
district attorney for
Marion County.

Sit down, please.
Let's all sit down.

I want to say how deeply
hurt and troubled I am
by Mike's death.

And to tell you that,

if there's absolutely anything
we can do for the family,

that the state of Oregon
can do,

we'll be more than
happy to do it.

Now let me stress this,

you're not to worry about
your expenses through this
whole thing, all right?

We're as much a family
business here as we are
a state government.

And believe me, we will do
everything within our powers

to find the perpetrator
of this crime.

You think it was one person?

Dale, why don't you tell
these good people

what you can
at this time, please?

Well, there's not
much, actually.

Your brother's car,
your husband's, ma'am,

was parked in front
of the Dome Building.

The way we see it,
he was stabbed
at the car and then

staggered over to the
north portico before he died.

The window was broken there
as if he tried to get in.

I hope you understand
it's very important
in a case like this

not to let the public
know everything.

Investigators have to hold
back a certain amount

just so they have
something to check
witnesses' stories against.

In other words,
no talking to the press.

Is that agreed?

When Dick Peterson called and
told me that Mike was dead,

he said they conducted
a search for him earlier
in the evening,

around 8:00.
Is that right?

DALE: Mmm-hmm.
NEIL: That's correct.

But they couldn't find him.

Then his body's found
in front of the building
five hours later.

Does that sound right to you?

That's obviously one of the
things we're looking into.

When he was
discovered missing,
were the police called?

No.

KEVIN: Did he have his wallet?

He had his watch
and his wallet.

KEVIN: Was any money taken?
No.

Anything missing from his car?

Not that we know of.

Well, (SIGHS)

what about the autopsy?
I mean, can we have
a copy of that?

(SIGHS) What can we do?

You're going to have to trust
us on some of these matters.

We're at the very early stages
of this investigation,
and at this point,

we're not even certain
of everything we have.

Does that mean no?

For the moment, I'm afraid so.

Where's the north portico?

That's where your
brother's car was parked.

PAT: You coming?

KEVIN: Yeah, in a minute.

(DOOR CLOSES)

Kevin?
Yes.

Jack Stewart, Head of
the Criminal Division,
State Police.

We were just telling the
others how sorry we are
about this business.

Oh.
Thank you.

-Kevin, this is Mary Flynn,
Mike's secretary.
-Hi.

Hello.

Mike spoke often of you.

Thanks.

Look, we can't
get into his office
until the police arrive.

-So, uh, why don't we,
just come back?
-Yeah, okay.

Hey, Kevin, this is
Sergeant Gordon Unsoeld.

He's in charge
of the investigation,

under my direction, of course.

-Uh, can I speak with you
for a minute?
-Yeah.

Over here, if that's okay.

I need to ask you
these questions,

and it would be better
if I asked you them now,

if it's all right with you?
Yeah, sure.

Was your brother
a heavy gambler?

Did he ever play poker?

College.
That's all?

He was a casual poker player,

in the way that
a lot of people are,

but he was in no way...

He didn't pursue the sport.

Did he have a lot
of girlfriends?

Any girlfriends you know of?

No. None that I know of.

What we're looking at now is

your brother probably
surprised someone

who was burglarizing his car,
there was a scuffle

and your brother
ended up dead.

These things happen
all the time.

Car clouts, we call them.

A few months ago,
a state senator was attacked
couple of blocks from here.

Bike burglary.

Now, if they kill you
for your bike around here,

they'll certainly
kill you for your car.

Don't worry.

We will catch the
son of a bitch that did this.

You see any targets?

No clay pigeons, nothing.

You know about this?

Uh, he checked out a riot gun
last weekend.

Is this a habit of his?

No.

What was he shooting at?

He wanted to get
the handling down.
It's just not any shotgun.

I mean, you can wreak havoc
with it if you don't know
how to use it.

Uh, Mr. Francke?

Kevin Francke?
Yeah.

Uh, can we get
an interview with you?

Uh, no, sorry.
I can't talk to you guys.

We've got instructions
from the D.A.

May I ask you a question,
off the record?

No, I mean, there's really
nothing I can talk about.

Uh, look. Here's my card.

Please take it, and if you
feel like calling anytime,
just do it.

Um, you know, there are
people around this state

who thought your brother
might be governor one day.

Best of luck.

JOHN: (ON TV)
Two years ago,
he came to Oregon

as Governor
Neil Goldschmidt's
main architect

in overhauling the state's
overcrowded prisons.

Today in Salem, Marion County
District Attorney

Dale Penn held
a news conference,

at which he revealed
new information on the
murder of Michael Francke.

I want to inform you that
we have a suspect.

A man

about six feet tall,
with medium length dark hair,

wearing dark pants,
and a tan trench coat.

An eyewitness saw him
running away from the
scene of the crime.

We're also looking for a man
with olive skin,

wearing a pinstripe suit,
who was seen inside
the Dome Building

at about 6:30
that evening.

He's not a suspect,

but the police would like
to talk to him.

Any questions?
REPORTER 1:
Dale?

REPORTER 2:
Dale?
REPORTER 3:
Mr. Penn?

Dale. Did he have a motive?

Well, we're not ruling
anything out at this point.

It could be revenge
for something.

Or a car burglar
with a knife.

JOHN: (ON TV)
Michael Francke,
dead at 42.

This is John Nelson in Salem.

(OVER PHONE)
Department of
Corrections, Janet speaking.

Could you tell me what time
the Dome Building closes
in the evening?

5:00.

Is it locked then?

Yes, sir.

That means you have to
have a key to get in, right?

I believe so. Who am I
speaking to, please?

DESK SERGEANT:
Oregon State Police.

Yeah, could I speak with
Sergeant Unsoeld, please?

This is Kevin Francke.

One moment.

UNSOELD:
Hello, Kevin.

Sergeant, have you found
the man in the pinstripe suit

who was spotted in
the Dome Building,

the guy you wanted to talk to?

No.

Do you know who he is?

No.

Is he a suspect?

No.
Why not?

There's no reason to believe
he had anything to do with
the murder of your brother.

How can you know that
if you don't know who he is?

I mean, he was in the
building an hour and half
after it was locked.

Now, he had to have a key
or somebody had to let him in.

Why isn't he a suspect?

Because he doesn't fit
your car burglary theory?

No.

Sergeant, I was thinking
that our family would like
to have Mike's body

studied by
a forensic specialist.

He's buried, Kevin.

We'll dig him up.

We've already done an autopsy.

Our family's not going to know
what's in your autopsy.

Kevin, I can't release
an autopsy without
Dale Penn's permission.

KATIE: Kevin? Line one.

Yeah.

Kevin, this is Major Stewart.

I've got a conference call
here with Dale Penn.

Hello.
DALE
: Hello, Kevin.

I understand you want to have
an independent autopsy done.

Yeah.

There's no reason to put
yourself or your family
through that ordeal.

We'll send the
autopsy report over.

Great. When?

Look, Kevin.

He was stabbed through
the heart. There were two,

possibly three stab wounds
to the chest.

Virtually nothing else,

save the wounds
to his hands, which
were probably defensive...

-Come on, Kevin,
they're waiting.
-Jesus Christ, wait a minute.

Sorry, Dale.
I was interrupted.
What about his hands?

The wounds to his hands
were probably
defensive wounds.

The wounds he received
knocking out the window
of the portico door.

That's all the wounds
there are.

Hey, Dale, when you
send the autopsy report,
would you please send me

some pictures of my
brother's body?

I don't think I understand.

Well, like, police photos
of my brother's body.
The way it was found.

I'm trying to put together
in my head

what actually happened,
but with absolutely
nothing to work with.

They're waiting for you.

Okay, we'll do that.

Dale, my brother had told me
that he had found something in
the Corrections Department,

and that he was gonna
have to clean house.

Now, I think that has
something to do
with his murder.

DALE:
You got that, Major?

Yes, sir.

DALE:
You gonna
be all right, Kevin?

Yeah. Yeah, I will be.

Thanks.

SANDY: This
what you're looking for?

(INHALES)

KEVIN: One, two... Seven...

Kevin, what?

Kevin!

-Kevin, what happened?
-The autopsy report,
they only sent half of it.

What they did send,
they blacked out most of it!

-Let's talk about it.
-There's nothing
to fucking talk about!

(RANTING INDISTINCTLY)

Channel 4 News,
John Nelson here.

This is Kevin Francke,
Mike Francke's brother?

I was wondering why the
man in the pinstripe suit
is not a suspect?

-Is this off the record?
-No, no. This is not
off the record.

I want to talk to somebody
about what's going on.

JOHN:
A week after
Michael Francke was murdered,

investigators released
a description

of a man observed running
from the scene.

Police believe
he is the killer.

They also said they were
seeking information on a man

in a pinstripe suit,

who was seen inside
the Dome Building
at about 6:30,

a half hour before
Francke was killed.

The State Police
commissioned one of
Oregon's best police artists

to draw a composite
from witnesses' descriptions.

Now, they've shown it
to the employees inside
the Dome Building,

but for reasons best known to
investigators, have refused
to release it to the public.

Nevertheless,
Channel 4 News

yesterday acquired
a copy of this composite.

Do you know this man?

Who is he?

JODIE: (ON TV)
He's on that
phone in there.
-Kevin Francke.

JODIE:
He's revving up
his motorcycle. I heard...

Kevin!

How you doing?

Fine. You?

(SIGHS)

Listen, do you, uh,
know who the man was

that saw the guy running away
from the Dome Building?

You know, the witness
the cops talked about?

(SIGHS)

Want a cup of coffee?

(SIGHS)

Okay, I'm ready.

KEVIN: John, just here?

Yeah, you're fine.

Kevin Francke,
why did you move to Salem?

I'm here to investigate
Mike's murder.

You're not satisfied
with the job

the State Police are doing?

I just think they're
spending too much time
investigating the idea that

my brother's murder
was the, uh, random act
of a lone car burglar.

But Mike told me shortly
before he was killed

that he found something
in the Corrections Department

and he was gonna
have to clean house.

I think that he uncovered
a criminal element
in his department

and was killed to
keep it from being exposed.

Did you give this information
to Marion County District
Attorney Dale Penn?

Yes, yes.

Look, there's no evidence
at all of a conspiracy that
involves Michael Francke.

I'm not involved
in a cover-up.

It's my number one goal
to solve this case.

More than 2,000 people,

most of them students,
marched in Estacada today

to protest drunken driving.

A mother and three children
were killed earlier this week,

when they were
struck from behind by
a suspected drunken driver

as they walked
along a highway.

Sunshine and blue skies
for tomorrow's

Rose Festival Parade.

Marty Edwards with the
weather after this.

Channel 4 News.
This is John Nelson.

Yeah, hi, it's me.

We found the witness.

He's a maintenance man
at the Dome Building.

-Kevin, this is
Wayne Hunsucker.
-How you doing?

-Hey, Kevin.
It's nice to meet you.
-You too.

-Mr. Hunsucker says
he'll tell us what he knows.
-Great.

What I said was
I wondered what took
them so long to find me.

I'll tell you
what I told the police.

Okay.

I was coming out of that door
and it was just after 7:00.

And I was going along here,
and I was going to
my car up there.

And it was right about here
that I heard this sound.

You know, like somebody
had his breath knocked out?

You know, kind of... (GRUNTS)
A grunt sound.

And I just turned,

and just for a fraction
of a second, I saw two guys

facing each other,
by that sign there.

And then they separated.

The one guy,
he runs off that way.

He stops at the street,
he walks across it,

goes out
behind that generator,

and comes around
that building there.

At the same time,
this guy takes off running.

This guy, he turned,

walks across there,
and then up the steps.

The police think the guy
who walked up the steps

was my brother?

Yeah.

Did you identify him
as my brother?

No.

What about the guy who ran?

I mean, his back was to me.

I saw him for a second.

You know, he looked like
a businessman to me.

You know, he didn't look
like nobody that came from
underneath the bridge.

Could you identify him?

No. I...

Wait. How big was the guy
who walked up the steps?

Six foot, give or take
an inch.

Maybe 175, 180 pounds.

Was he wearing glasses?

(SIGHS) I couldn't see that.

If I stabbed you in the chest,
you'd double over, right?

Yeah, but it wasn't like that.
I mean, if was just...

Like two guys who were
standing there talking
to each other for a while.

Just normal conversation.

Sergeant, I spoke
with Wayne Hunsucker,

and I was wondering why

the man he saw walking up
the steps to the Dome Building

wasn't as much a suspect as
the man he saw running away?

Your brother's body was found
in a portico, that's why.

Yeah, but the man Hunsucker
saw walk up the steps

hadn't just been stabbed
through his heart.

You don't know that.

You think I could stab you
through your heart

and you'd casually walk away?

The guy Hunsucker saw
did not even use the banister

going up the steps.

Look, your brother left
his office at a certain time.

There's a time frame here.

Now, in all probability,
the man Hunsucker saw
was your brother.

According to Hunsucker,

the man he saw
was maybe six feet,
180 pounds at the most.

My brother would have
been six-foot-five
in his cowboy boots,

which he was
wearing at the time,

and 235 pounds.

And that's a
55-pound difference.

Now, my brother was
wearing glasses.

Hunsucker's didn't
see any glasses.

Hunsucker's general
description of the guy
isn't even close

to the general description
of my brother.

Now, come on,
don't you think we can work

with a higher level of
probability than that?

How about my brother was
already dead up on the porch

when Hunsucker saw
his two men?

What about the sound
he heard?

Maybe that was Mike up
on the portico collapsing.

I don't know. Shit!

Where's his knife?

The guy running away,
where's the knife?

Huh? Hunsucker turned
when he heard the sound

and the guy runs away.
Where's his knife?

Hunsucker did not see a knife.

If your brother's already dead
up on the portico,

what is this guy doing
going back up there?

If he were the murderer,
he'd be getting out of there.

What if it was a person
who worked in Corrections?

What if it was somebody
who could account
for his being there?

If interrupted, he would say,
"Oh, geez, I just found
Mike's body here."

You think of that?

Kevin, we're this close.

You still think it's just
one man who did this?

Be patient.

We've almost got it.

JOHN: (ON TAPE)
He wanted
to know everything.

Staff involvement...
It was in the middle of...

Hey!

Listen.

There's an attorney
in the building here

who says he has something
we might be interested in.

He defended a woman who shot
her sometime boyfriend

a couple of weeks
after Michael was killed.

Kevin! Come on in.

I'd, uh, like you to meet Liz.

Elizabeth Godlove
and her sister, Karen Tate.

Hi.
Hi.

Okay, uh...

Gary, you can just
see her outline, right?

You can't see her face?

We hope this will, uh,
protect your anonymity.

Comfortable?

I'm fine.

Did Tim Natividad ever talk
about killing someone?

What he said was, um...
He was threatening
to take my life

and he said that he could
kill me very easily because
he had killed a man before.

JOHN: Do you think
it's possible Tim Natividad

killed Michael Francke?

I wouldn't put it
past him to do that.

JOHN: Any other reason?

A picture I saw on TV of a
man seen in the Dome Building

looked like Tim to me
and I said,

"Oh, my God,
that looks like Tim to me."

JOHN: Which picture?
The, uh, composite drawing

of the man with the mustache
in the pinstripe suit?

Mmm-hmm, yeah.

JOHN: Did he ever mention
talk about contract killing?

Um, he just told me
that he had committed crimes

and that he was big time.

JOHN: Did you ever hear anyone
talk about killing for hire?

His little brother, Tad,
asked me if somebody
had hired me to kill Tim.

Is that what you mean?

JOHN: What did you answer?

No.

God, no.

JOHN: Why would he ask that?

Um...
JOHN: Okay, okay, uh,

somebody want
to hit the lights?

That was very helpful, Liz.

Do you have a picture of Tim?

I have one at home.

Him and Anthony.

My son.

Did you ever tell the police

you thought the man in the
composite was Tim Natividad?

Oh, yeah, I told them.

They laughed in my face.
(PHONE RINGING)

They said you can't
convict a dead man.

I wish we had that on tape.

Yeah? Who?

Yeah?

Yeah. Okay, thanks.

There's other
media downstairs.

JOHN: It wasn't me, Paul.
PAUL: Liz, you want to talk

to these people?

(EXHALES)

I know the way out.
I live here.

I can get you down
on High Street and you won't
even bump into these folks.

Okay?
Okay.

-Karen, we'll send someone
around to get those photos.
-Okay!

You'd better move!

(ELEVATOR BELL RINGS)

Hey, Liz? Miss?

Um...

Would you like to go
out to dinner sometime?
Maybe, uh, have dinner?

Would you like that?

I'm moving.

Tonight
and tomorrow. So...

This is my new address.

Friday at 6:00 okay?

Sure.

You got a phone?

No.

Thank you!

Yeah. Nice to meet you.

Did you get it?

(WHISTLING)

KEVIN: That's him.

That's him...
Jesus, that's him!

There's a vague resemblance.

(LAUGHS)

Vague?
This is the same guy!

Well, we showed photos
of Natividad to the people

who saw the man
in the Dome Building,

and they didn't feel
it was the same guy.

Did you show them this photo?

Show them this photo.
You can show them this photo.
Here...

Believe me. We looked into
this and nothing came of it.

Kevin, look.

This woman, Godlove,
was making up

stuff to try and paint the guy
she killed in a bad light

to get her ass out of a sling.

Now, don't believe everything
everybody tells you.

Sergeant, these are pictures
of the same guy.

Now, come on,
look at his eyes.

See his nose? Huh?
See the mustache,
how it goes over like that?

I mean, look at the little
thing on his chin.

See, that's exactly the same.
And this is a drug pusher

and he's in the Dome Building
after it was closed.

Don't get involved
with these people, Kevin.
They're dangerous.

What people?

You have no idea
what you're getting into.

What people are
you talking about?

Hey, you found me.

Come in.

You want a beer?

Sure.

Is this your son?

Yep.

Is he here?

He's back tomorrow.

My Mom and (CLEARS THROAT)
her husband took the grandkids

down to Disneyland
for a few days.

So, um,
still up for dinner?

Show me your place.

(BEEPING)

What was that sound?

It was my beeper.

I've got to make a call.

Mine's shut off.

What's in your briefcase?

Gun.

Do you mind?

Can I see you again?

I'm here.

(DOOR CLOSES)

JOHN:
Where were you?

It was 5:00 in the morning.

Where were you?

With Liz.

God, Kevin.

You weren't at the office.
I thought maybe you were dead.

Look. They've got a man
they say murdered
your brother,

in the Coos Bay Jail.

Frank Gable,
he's been there a while.

Now, he's picked up
on other charges

and we're on our way
up there for an interview.

Thought you'd want to know.

You ever heard of him before?

No.

JOHN: (ON TAPE)
What have
investigators told you
about the case?

They say
they have their case.

They have these certain people
rolling on me, uh,

Cappy Hardin and some girl,
Jodie Swearingen, saying she's
seen me run away from there

and, uh, some tweakers who say
they heard me say I did it.

Just trying to
scare tactic me.

(SIGHS)

Who are the people
that saw him do it?

Oh.

Cappy Hardin.

Pusher. There he is.

Girlfriend, Jodie.

She's what they call
a bag bitch.

She goes with the guy
who has the drugs.

They say that Gable
was breaking into the car

and Michael surprised him.

What were they doing there?

Cappy and Jodie?

I don't know.

You gonna be able
to get to him?

I don't know.

KEVIN: What about Natividad?

He's not part
of the police scenario.

What are you thinking?

This guy didn't kill Mike.

Not by himself.

Gable says there's a group
of convicts,

all part of the
meth crowd, tweaks,

are trying to set him up.

To save their own skin
or for revenge.

Revenge for what?

He was a snitch
for the police.

JOHN: (ON TAPE)
If you were
indicted on charges
of aggravated murder

and you were offered
the opportunity to plea
bargain to a lesser charge,

would you?

No.

Not at all.

Because I know...

See, if this case comes
to trial, I'd beat it.

No question in my mind.

Because I know they need
more than two dope fiends
getting up there,

telling, "Yeah,
I seen him do it."

And I know I'm not the killer,

so I know they don't
have no evidence on me.

So, we're taking it to trial
all the way.

Hi.
Hey.

Anthony?

Anthony, come here.

HARRY: Come on, Anthony!

Anthony.

Anthony!

(SCOFFS)

That was Anthony.

Who's the older boy?

Harry. He's 10.

(EXHALES)

Do you know who
Frank Gable is?

No.

Cappy Hardin?

I've heard of him.

From Tim?

Yeah.

Do you remember
anything about him?

How about Jodie Swearingen?

So, this guy who wants to
meet you is an investigator

for the defense.

But Kevin, this is something
that's truly between us
and nobody else.

Nobody!

All right.

(CAR DOOR OPENS)

DAVID: Hi.

There you go.

Hi.
JOHN: Okay!

Kevin, this is David.

DAVID: It's nice to meet ya.

Uh, the Swearingen file
and everything we've got
on Natividad.

Anything you can do to
help us out in that area

will be appreciated.

And I think we'll be able
to get you Jodie.

What's her story?
Well,

she says she was
at the Dome Building

with Gable while he
was jockey boxing cars,

and she called Hardin
to come pick her up.

He drove up just in time to
see Gable kill your brother,

who had surprised him
in the car.

She's 18, and every
time she tells the story,
it's a little bit different.

Is she in custody?

She reports in once a week.
But she stopped doing it.

-What does that mean?
-Oh, you can't tell
with these people.

Uh, those are
copies of the autopsy photos.

It was nice to meet you.
DAVID: Thanks.

JOHN: See you, David.

See you later.

(DOOR CLOSES)

What's jockey boxing?

Going through
glove compartments.

Wanna get something to eat?

Uh, no, um,
I think I'll walk back.

I, um, just want to look
at these, you know?

I'll be a bit. Later.

All right. See ya.

KEVIN: This is what was done
to the hand that went
through the window.

Some bruises here.

It's like somebody
held his arm back.

I think he was held.

I think somebody punched him
in the face and, uh,

it broke his glasses.

JOHN:
Jodie,
you just indicated there
was a warrant out for you.

Yeah, because I haven't
been reporting in.

Reporting in to who?

The D.A.'s office, the police.
Gordon Unsoeld.

Why aren't you reporting?

Because I just...
I just don't think they're
doing things right.

How do you mean?

I mean, if they were
doing everything right,

I wouldn't have been
able to see Shorty
and talk to him twice.

I mean, it just wouldn't
have been allowed

before we went to Grand Jury.

And they... They wanted
to make sure
that our stories jived.

When you say "Shorty," you're
talking about the state's

other eyewitness
who can identify
Gable as the murderer?

Yeah.

You met with him
before you testified
to the Grand Jury?

Yeah, right before.

Where was this?

In a room?

Yeah.

Why did you agree to talk
with me, Jodie? Was, uh...

Did you have any
specific thought in mind?

I just don't want Frank Gable
to die for something
he didn't do.

See this file?

This binder right here.

Yeah?

There's over 36 entries in it.

Now, over two thirds of these
are statements that you
apparently made to the police.

Yeah?

Well, according to some
of your statements,

you said that you met
Frank Gable the first time

on the night Mr. Francke
was killed.

That's not true.

Did you meet him
before or after

Michael Francke was killed?

After.

Could you tell me
why you said all this?

Because that... It was what
everybody wanted me to do.

And they were not going to let
me get out, have any freedom
until I went to the Grand Jury

and said something to
the Grand Jury. I mean...

I lied!

They wanted this thing over.
They wanted this thing over
worse than anybody does.

How do you know that?
Does it... Can you...

Are you able to explain
that to me, or is it just a...

-A feeling that you can't
explain? What?
-It's...

Frank Gable
is an escape goat.

And I mean...

Man, I don't want to go
into this anymore

because all I wanted to do

is say what needs to be said
to let Frank Gable

off the hook and whatever,
because he didn't...

He didn't do it.

What? So I light up.
(GIGGLES)

You know, some people
might interpret it that you're

telling me all this
just to get him off

as opposed to that
he actually...

Didn't actually do it.

Well, he didn't
actually do it.

-So, you're not just
trying to change your story...
-No, No.

...because all you have...

No. No! No!

That's not it!

What it is...

I'm not going to be in
at the trial, okay?

That's it! That's all!

Uh, what do you mean?

Why aren't you going
to be at the trial?

Because I don't want
to be at the trial,
and I'm not going to be.

Uh, so you just want to set
the record straight
before you leave?

Yeah, or before I die.
Whichever, one way or
the other. Will you go away?

Uh, hold on just...
Wait a minute! Wait a minute.

Wait, please!
Go away! I said everything!

Why do you refer to
that you might die?

Because I'm not going to jail!

Did you see anybody at all,
anybody, kill Michael Francke?

No. I don't want
to answer that.

Jesus fucking Christ!
All right.

All right. By you not
answering it, you know,

-it just sort of
leaves it open...
-Fuck it.

...that you may have seen
somebody kill him.

No, it leaves it
open for either way.

Whereas... Whereas...

It doesn't matter!

If you just said
no, you didn't, that would
indicate you didn't.

Right. Go away.

Did you know Tim Natividad?

I don't know why
you even bring that name up.

-Because his name's been
in the news recently.
-You can...

-Can you turn off that?
Just turn... Turn it off!
-All right. Gary, Gary, okay.

-She say anything more
about Tim?
-No.

She was pissed off
I brought him up.

She knows more about him.

Kevin, she got
out of there, man.
She... she was...

I couldn't talk
to her anymore.

They're going to have
to drop the charges
against Gable now, right?

Everything she says
destroys their case.

No. They'll probably just say
she didn't want to be
labeled a snitch.

What about getting her
and Hardin together
before the Grand Jury?

That's illegal, isn't it?

It will always be her word
against the police.

They'll say it didn't happen
or they'll say

they were instructed
not to talk about the case,
and of course they didn't.

And people will believe them,
because they need to.

Kevin, you wouldn't
even be here
if it wasn't your brother.

John got the interview
with Jodie.

When he asked her
if Tim killed Mike,

she told him to
turn off the camera.

I felt so strongly
that Tim did it.

Not that I felt that I had
to justify what I'd done,
I just...

I felt it so strongly
I don't believe it.

You know, it all made sense.

Tim came in one night
real close to all this
and he had a...

A wound on his leg
and he told me
he'd been in a fight.

You didn't say all this when
John was interviewing you.

Well, yeah.

I know a lot more, I think,
but I don't want to go
on TV with it

because the Natividads live
here in town and I'm scared
to death of them.

He was threatening to kill me
and my family. He...

He had a gun to my head
for more than an hour.

He was trembling.

And I thought I was dead.

I knew I was.

At one point,

I just knew it.

I don't like this story.

Tim flew off the couch

and I was just shaken,
and he goes,

"I've had it." He goes,
"I'm gonna get your family."

This is it.

He's gonna kill us.

And I'm going,

"Tim, Tim." Like, "No, stop."

And he's just looking around
and he says,

"Where's my gun?"
And I just...

(SOBS)

Oh, God!

There was a gun
on the bed along
with a lot of other stuff,

and I grabbed it
and I remember
running around like...

I don't know what to do.
I mean, I think
I was just gonna...

I was just gonna leave.

You know, I was just gonna
get away from him.

And I couldn't get
the door open 'cause

he'd locked all the locks
and he had me.

He was right behind me,
he was gonna get me and...

I turned and I shot him.

(SIGHS)

I shot twice.

Uh, I didn't even think
I hit him, you know.

'Cause I don't know guns
and I...

It's okay.

What?

What you did. It's okay.

I think you're being followed.

What do you mean?

The yellow cab.

Cops are in it.

Are there two men
in the front seat?

Bob Crace.

Bob Crace?

I never saw him
with Tim, but he used
to hang out with T.J.,

Tim's big brother,
in the old days.

I think he's somebody
you could talk to.

CRACE: Could I help you?

Yeah, I'm Kevin Francke,

brother of Michael Francke.

Miss Godlove said
you might talk to me.

You with Liz?

(CRACE LAUGHING)

What do you want to know?

Anyone live in this trailer?

Mice.

Do you know who
killed my brother?

Well,

I will tell you this.

About two weeks
after the murder,

T.J. Natividad shows up
here trying to sell me
computer tapes.

They got Department
of Corrections stamped
across the bottom of them.

"Where'd you get these?"
I say.

"My brother killed
Michael Francke."

He said that?
Yeah, he said it.

He also said Tim got
$40,000 to do it.

Did you tell the police?

Eventually.

Gave me a lie detector test.

Afterwards, the examiner says,

"Say, you're telling
the truth, ain't you?"

-And then?
-I never heard from
them again.

What was on the tapes?

Well, I heard
they were snitch tapes.

What's a snitch tape?

Immunity agreements
with snitches.

I guess somebody
wanted to know who
was giving them up.

Who? Do you know who?

No.

Well, how would they know
my brother would have them?

Well, they'd also have to know
he had them on him that

particular night,
wouldn't they?

And who's gonna know
except somebody in the
Department of Corrections?

Every time those investigators
came around here,

I tried to explain
why Corrections
officials are involved.

It's got something to do with
drugs going into the prisons.

And I think your
brother knew about it.

It's like the cops wanted
that part to go away.

Do you know anyone else
who spoke with the police?

Natividad just popped
into my life.

One day he calls me
on the phone.

I never even knew him before.

I was at my wife's house.

In October,
before Francke was killed,

he starts talking to me about
how I could take out people
who had fucked me over.

He keeps baiting me, you see,
because the next call,

he starts saying how he can
get me out of here,

to take out somebody,
if I didn't mind
who the target is.

Says he'll get me paid
if I don't mind where the
money's coming from,

since it all comes from
the same place anyway.

Do you know who he
wanted you to kill?

He said top man
was getting too big

and needed
his arms trimmed.

He says nobody will ever find
out who took out top man.

And he was gonna get you
out of prison to do this?

(LAUGHS) Yeah.

And pay you?
(LAUGHS) Uh-huh.

-And guarantee that nobody
would ever find out?
-That's right.

How could he do that?

You asking me what I think?

Yeah.

I thought it was coming down
from Corrections.

Thirty days.

Why?

You got any money?

About $400.

I'm gonna sell my cameras.

How much you get for them?

Maybe 500.

They're worth a
couple of thousand.

(LIZ SIGHS)

Liz.

Would you talk to John again,

and maybe say some
of the things you didn't say?

They're framing
this guy Gable.

You know these guys,
these friends of Tim's?

I figure they're just gonna
knock you off, you know?

No problem.

I figure they're just gonna
come into my home
and they're...

And they're just
gonna kill us all.

I...

(CRYING) I don't...

I don't...

I don't want to ignore my son.

I'm so... (SOBBING)

(WHISPERS) You don't
have to talk to anybody.

(SIGHS) Ha...

Yes, I do.

Jodie, who killed
Michael Francke?

Rooster.

Who's Rooster?

Tim.

Tim Natividad.

JOHN: Was anybody
else involved?

Shorty, Shorty.

JOHN:
Shorty is Cappy Hardin?

Yeah.

JOHN: The same
Cappy Hardin who says

he saw Frank Gable
kill Michael Francke?

Also the state's only
eyewitness to identify
Gable as the murderer?

Uh-huh.

JOHN:
Were you there?

Were you?

No.

Jodie Swearingen could be
trying to throw suspicions on
a dead man in order to get

out from under the informant
label, don't you think?

But Jodie Swearingen
is not the only person
who believes...

-Liz! Liz!
-...that Tim Natividad
may have been involved in

the murder of Michael Francke.

His former girlfriend,
Elizabeth Godlove,

had this to say about
her memory of that time.

About then,
the night of the 17th,

Tim came home real late

one night around 3:00.

Is he asleep?
And he woke me up,

and I noticed that he...

I noticed that he had
a wound on, I think,
his lower left leg,

and it was bandaged.

And I asked him what happened,
and he said he'd been
in a fight.

And I also noticed
that he had a...

Like a big red sore
on his head,
on his forehead.

And I asked how he got that,
and he said he bumped his head

real hard and busted it open.

JOHN:
Did he carry weapons?

He almost always carried
a boot knife. Almost always.

How was he behaving
the night he came in
at 3:00 in the morning?

He scared...

He scared me real bad.

His behavior was just unreal.
He would, uh...

He was really...

You know, he'd cry
and he'd shake.

And he was real
violent toward me.

He was freaked out
of his mind.

He was.

JOHN:
What do you say to
all those people who believe

that Tim Natividad
had something

to do with the murder
of Michael Francke?

Look, the state's
position is that there is
absolutely no connection

between Timothy Natividad and
the death of Michael Francke.

What you're telling me is
speculation and rumor.

That doesn't
make a connection.

We've seen no actual
statements about
eyewitnesses to the murder

or direct admissions
by Mr. Natividad.

(POUNDING ON DOOR)

The cops.
What?

Jesus Christ! Come on.
We're coming, we're coming.

Christ. Hold your horses.
Kevin.

Sergeant?

Can we come in?

We need to talk to Liz.

About what?

Liz, we need to talk to you
about an interview
that you gave.

Sure.

This is Detective Bennett
and Detective Stark.

Shall we go in here?

Sure.

Why don't we step outside?

I'd like to have
a talk with you.

-Uh, no. I'll stay here.
Thank you.
-Come on.

We can do two things at once.
They need to talk to Liz.

Well, that's fine. They can
talk to Liz right now.

I want to hear
what she has to say,

and what you have to say.

What's the problem?

I want to take some notes.

We'll take notes.
That's our job.

I'm not going to say anything.
You won't even know I'm here.

I'm just going to write down
everything she says.

Go with Bennett, Kevin.

No.

Why not?

Because it's my house.

I wasn't... Is this true?

Okay. Okay, okay, okay.
Everybody just sit down
and we'll talk.

Our concern, Liz, is how
certain your memory is that
Tim came home wounded

on the 17th of January,
the morning of the 18th.

Well, it was around then.

It's awful hard
to be real certain.

Well, if you had to say
between one and 10,

10 being absolutely certain,

what would you be in this,
a two?

(LAUGHS SARCASTICALLY)

No, It's more like
a six or a seven.

Oh, well, that's awful high.
Why don't we
split the difference?

Why don't you say
a three or a four?

Why don't you just say
it never happened?

I thought you said
you weren't going
to interrupt, Kevin.

Why don't we just say it
never happened, Gordon?

And we'll go on with
the investigation without you?

You're interfering
in a police matter.

And you're not
listening to her.

What do you
for a living, Kevin?

It's none of
your business, Sergeant.

Do you have a job?

Liz here works
at a Chinese restaurant.

We know about her.
What about you?

I bet you didn't pay attention
in school either, did ya?

We're trying to determine when
something happened here.

Then why don't
you listen to her?

You're not the first time,
I've seen a relative
of a victim

who felt they could do it
better than we can, but that's
not how it works.

Then why don't you stop
grooming her testimony?

What are you afraid of,
Sergeant?

Who are you afraid of?

Hmm. You know, somebody...

KEVIN: Who are you
protecting, huh?

Somebody's gonna get you.

Why don't you listen to
the citizens of this state?

One of those guys
is gonna get you.

Whose payroll are
you on, Unsoeld?

-One of those...
-I find that an
offensive gesture.

You are messing
with the wrong...

I find it physically
offensive...

You are stepping
on the wrong toes.

Whose toes are we talking
about, Gordon?

You better keep your ass out
of these places, Kevin,

because when they go down,
you're going down with them!

Are you threatening me?
I don't need to

threaten you.
You're a dead man.

No. He is threatening me!
You don't fucking threaten
me in my house!

-It's not my fault.
You don't belong here!
-You don't belong here!

-This is my house.
-Fuck you!
You don't belong here!

It's my fucking house!
I do belong here,
you understand me?

Come on, Gordon!
Let's get out of here!

(YELLING INDISTINCTLY)

Do it. Fucking do it!
I live in this fucking house!

She told you what
you didn't want to hear

-and you can't
fucking take it!
-We're out of here!

You get the fuck out of here!

She said she's 60 to 70%
sure of something

and you act like you don't
give a fuck?

Go get dressed, honey.

Frank Gable doesn't have
the balls to kill anybody.

You know him pretty well?

Yeah.

Be back in a minute, Ma.

Yeah, he's a follower,
not a leader.

Doesn't have the guts
to stand up for anything.

Here it is.

If you straighten
it up a little bit,
it's yours to stay in

as long as you like.

Okay.

PAUL: I don't think
it'll happen.
JOHN: What?

PAUL: I don't think it's gonna
come out at the trial.

What's not gonna
come out in the trial?

Tim Natividad.

KEVIN: His name will come up.

It's not gonna come up.

What happens when Jodie
gets on the witness stand?

She's not gonna say
she thinks Natividad did it?

She's going to be instructed
not to mention his name.

By who?

The court.

Why?

The prosecution asked it.

What about Bob Crace?

Liz?

-T.J.?
-No. The jury's not gonna
hear his name.

They're not going to see
Natividad's picture

and compare it
to the composite?

PAUL: No.

But Natividad is where
proof of a conspiracy is.

That's right.

This is wrong!

Natividad is where
the reasonable doubt is.

Maybe Gable was there,
but he wasn't there alone.

Natividad was there.

Can you say something?
What do you think?

(SIGHS)

There you go.

Did Olecutt find Jodie?

DAVID:
No,
I think she's about
to drop out of sight again.

If you had to find her...

I mean, can you help me?

KEVIN:
Hello, Jodie?
JODIE:
Yeah.

HARDIN:
Get off
the fucking phone!

-This is Kevin Francke.
I'd like to talk to you.
-HARDIN:
Get off!

Just want to talk to you,
Jodie, I'm not going
to hurt you or anything.

(HONKS)

(SOBBING)

God, I bet you really feel
really fucked up about it.

About what?

I've been thinking
about this forever.

It just goes on and on and on.

I...

I'll screw it up.

I can't even talk.

"Everything's going
to be okay," they said.
You believe that?

Who said that?
The fucking cops.

Those polygraph tests
are so fucked. They are.

They aren't for real.

Unsoeld was so mad,
he was slamming things
around the room.

He thought he was going
to intimidate me.

I was laughing at him.

He was spitting
on his himself.

He was so pissed.

They're full of shit!

You're all fucking
full of shit!

Nobody gives a shit about
Tim getting killed!

Fuck, you don't!
You're living with the
fucking bitch that killed him!

You don't give a shit
about that, do you?

That's why I'm gonna kill
that bitch someday.

That's what I told the cops.
I started saying, "Well...

"You guys don't give a fuck
about people that get killed

"that have to do with
drugs and stuff like that."
And on and on and on.

"What about Natividad?"
I said.

What did they say about him?

They stopped taking notes.

Do you know who
killed my brother?

Don't want to say,
might flush you.

Huh?

(CHUCKLES)

Might have to flush you.

It just got real dark.

I was so high.

He... Kind of took long
strides up behind your brother

as he opened the car door

and grabbed him, his left hand
on your brother's shoulder,

and he turned this way.

And he stabbed him
and stabbed him!

Who stabbed my brother?

Who, Jodie, who?

That's the place
Tim met that guy.

What guy?

A suit. Different.

What guy?

He got in trouble
in the state in...

When he left, in, um...

In Arizona or some place.

Because I saw his picture
in the paper.

(STAMMERING) He got busted
in some sex deal.

Do you remember his name?

It was in the paper.
He was a state official
here before.

What kind of official?

Do you remember his name?

Uh-uh. It was in the paper.

Salem paper?

Uh-huh. Yeah.

(SIGHS) Did you tell the cops?

Yeah.

What did they say?

Man, fuck them!

After we left,

this guy and Tim drove around
and he showed me a house
he was gonna buy.

He had lots of money.

Is this before
Mike was killed?

Let me out here.

I can... I can take you back.

No, here. Here! Let me out!

All right, Jodie,
who killed my brother?

Let me out! Here!
Let me out! Here!

-Let me out here!
-All right! Just, listen
who killed my brother?

Wait. Jodie! Jodie!
Wait! Jodie...

ABEL: Our first witness,
Your Honor, is going
to be Jodie Swearingen.

(DOOR CLOSES)

JUDGE: Would you come right
up here, Miss Swearingen?

We need to have you
sworn in this morning.

Would you please
remain standing?
Raise your right hand.

This lady's going to give you
an oath this morning.

Under penalty of perjury,
do you solemnly swear
that the testimony

you are about to give shall
be the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth?

Yes.

JOHN:
Frank Gable was
convicted of murder today
for the stabbing death of

Corrections Director
Michael Francke.

He now faces a mini-trial to

determine if the
state of Oregon will kill him
with a lethal injection.

Reaction to the verdict
was mixed.

This verdict validates what
I've been saying
for some time.

Gable, acting alone,
killed Francke.

I think we can now lay to rest
all the speculation

and media stories
about conspiracies, multiple
assailants and cover-ups.

They heard the facts.

That's what this system is,
and it's a good system
and it works.

I'm shocked. Uh, I don't,
I don't think Frank did it.

I know he didn't do it.
We did enough investigating.

Some of it just didn't
make it to the jury
for whatever reason.

Like what?
What didn't make it
to the jury?

Evidence that other people
were involved in the murder.

That the crime was planned
and talked about
before it happened.

The jury heard
Jodie Swearingen swear
to tell the whole truth,

but they didn't hear
the court instruct her not to.

(SIREN WAILING)

(SIRENS WAILING)

FIELD SERGEANT:
Driver!
Put your hands up in
the air where we can see them!

With your left hand, remove
the keys from the ignition
and throw them out the window.

Now put your hands
on the outside of
the vehicle's door.

Now open the door
with your left hand.

Okay, now exit the vehicle.

Exit the vehicle!

I can't!

Exit the vehicle!

Get back in the house!
CRACE: What's going on?

Get those people back
in the house!

It's all right, Bob!
It's okay!

You people get back
in the house! That's an order!

CRACE: It's my house!
I'm owed an explanation!

(CLAMORING)

TROOPER: Get back
in the house!

CRACE: All right! All right!
Jesus...

OFFICER:
Damn it, Kevin!
Get out of the car!

I can't! My seatbelt's on!

Driver, with your right hand,
unfasten your safety belt
and get out of the car.

Put your hands
behind your head.

Turn around with your back
towards us and get
on your knees.

Turn around and get on your
knees, Kevin! I'm not going
to tell you again!

No. I'm not gonna do it.

-LIZ: Kevin...
-Lady, get back
in the trailer!

Honey, are you all right?
Yeah.

-Lady, you get back in
the trailer now!
-ANTHONY: Kevin!

No, no, no.
Kevin.

Anthony! Go with your Mom!
No. Come on! Come on!

-Kevin!
-Anthony, it's okay.
Go with your Mom!

Get back in there!
Get the kid in there!

Kevin, get down
on the ground!

I'm not getting on my knees.

All right, walk in
the direction of my voice.

Turn around. You don't have
to get on your knees.

I'll face the car. I'll put my
hands on the car, okay?

All right, move!
Put your hands on the car!

Where's your gun, Kevin?

Where's your gun, Kevin?

(YELLING IN PAIN) Oh, God!
Dumb shit! Let me get
my foot out of the door!

Where's the gun?

It's in my car.

It's in his car!

(CHATTERING OVER POLICE RADIO)

Don't move!

TROOPER: Where in the car?

Where in the car
is your gun, Kevin?

In my briefcase.

It's in his briefcase!

TROOPER: We got it!

You know, you could kill
someone with this.

Come on, get out.

(GRUNTS)

I'm gonna let you go.
We have no crime.

Tell me, what was this?

It was a stop.

This was a stop?

We had a report that you
were menacing someone
with a handgun.

I wasn't menacing anybody.

So, what did you
learn from Jodie?

That I'm not done here.

(SIGHS)

Be careful, Kevin. The next
cop you get may not be
as experienced as me.

LIZ: Kevin?

What was that all about?

Well, I don't think I'm going
to go back to sleep.

CRACE: You okay, Kevin?

Yeah.