TikTok (2021) - full transcript

TikTok: it's the social media app which has come to define our perception of Gen Z, and which has firmly embedded itself within the covid-era zeitgeist. A phenomenally popular platform, more than a billion users scroll through its endless feeds, and it's turned ordinary people into overnight internet stars. But there's another side to the world's most popular app: from racist 'feeds' that erase people of colour, to videos promoting eating disorders, there's problematic content beneath the platform's playful exterior. Meanwhile, are the many techniques TikTok is using, including facial recognition, a threat to data security? It may be time to look beyond the dance videos and recognise what's going on behind the fun façade.

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- TikTok has very

much become a way

for the young generation

to express ourselves

in every way.

You can be yourself, you're

at home, you're filming,

and there's always

gonna be like millions

of people watching you.

I like this one. Look and see.

You never know when

you could blow up.

- I think every

young kid's dream

is to be successful online.

The Chinese

social media platform,

TikTok, has

changed the internet.

It's become the most

popular app in the world.

- It's fishing

videos, it's cooking.

You can make skits,

singing, dancing.

Literally everything you

can think of, TikTok have.

- It's not an app on

their phone anymore.

It's their livelihood.

It's how they communicate

with their friends.

It's how they see their world.

That's a part that I

don't think everybody

has adjusted to yet.

- We're really at risk of having

generations of young people

that performed identities

in response to something

that a technology platform

prescribes to be the new normal.

Behind the shiny dance videos,

the platform is leading

people down dangerous paths.

- I'd like to think that I

wouldn't have struggled

with an eating disorder if I

hadn't downloaded TikTok.

- My claim with TikTok

is that they are harvesting

huge amounts of data illegally

without the consent of

children or their parents.

- If you just look at

TikTok in isolation,

it seems innocuous.

But it's really takes place

in this much larger context

of data collection,

artificial intelligence,

and a real effort by the Chinese

to consolidate influence in

the region and across the globe.

- Tonight on four

corners, TikTok.

In a joint investigation

with Hack on Triple J,

we're going down the rabbit hole

to reveal the dark side of app.

How the platform

censors political content

and harvests children's data.

And how the app's powerful

algorithm exposes people

to misinformation and

dangerous content.

- Hi, my name is Rory Eliza.

And, then what?

And what do you do?

- I am a full-time TikToker.

So in the morning I'll wake up,

maybe eight

o'clock, nine o'clock.

I'll check my phone,

check if my videos

have done well,

or how my followers are reacting

to the content that

I've just posted.

TikTok honestly, I get

so much love on there.

It's so weird because

that's my biggest platform,

is TikTok with 5

million followers.

It's crazy to think

that 5 million people,

that's people, it's

not just the number.

And if you really think

about it's 5 million people

that have tapped

that follow button.

They're all just so friendly and

they're kind of

like your family.

It's just weird, like you

don't know these people,

but they know so much about you

that they treat you

like a family member.

And on that note, welcome

to the new Rory Eliza.

Rory Eliza is one of millions

of young Australians

recording virtually every moment

of their lives to get

famous on TikTok.

- Get ready with me for a date.

Yo, I chose an outfit, let's go.

Transition, yeah.

So I think every

young kid's dream

is to, you know, be

successful online.

So, I think there's

definitely a group

where they all

wanna be influencers

'cause it's kind of

like the in thing now.

And I think that's

because of TikTok.

TikTok has been downloaded

more than 3 billion

times around the world.

It's become a

cultural phenomenon.

I'm 21 and just

learned how to

do my own laundry.

Some tomatoes and some cheese.

Dude, no you're

gotta go late like, hey.

Oh, okay, okay. Okay.

Everything is about going viral.

The dance, started by someone

in their living room

and uploaded to TikTok,

can turn into a

stadium full of people,

performing it in unison.

- I like how creative

you can be on it.

Like it's just so fun

to go on that app

and just express your real self.

Rory started posting

comedic skits on TikTok

and her following snowballed.

- No worries. I'll scan that one

right through for you right now.

This was her first viral video.

It got nearly 14 million views.

- How about some Peking duck?

Oh yeah, but we actually

don't have the Peking duck.

But we've got this

sneaking goose.

What an odd name.

It is pretty normal for a book.

In 2019, Rory

decided to leave school

to become a full time TikToker.

- Wait, wait, is this a library?

School was just one of those

things. I just was not good at.

I decided to leave school

when I was in year 11

and I was never there, you know.

I was always in

Sydney doing meetings

or presentations

for TikTok ends.

I just wasn't there. And

when I would come to school,

I would have no

idea what we're doing.

'Cause you know, I've

been away for heaps of days.

No worries at all. Thanks

for coming to our library.

School, you can

go back and do it at TAFE.

You can go back any

time and do it if you need it.

But you may never get

this opportunity again.

So, we just thought it

was worth leaving school

and pursuing all the

business opportunities

while they were there for her.

- No worries at all. Thanks

for coming to our library.

- How do you feel about the

fact that 5 million people are

watching her content?

- It's incredible.

It's even, when she

goes live, there was

a time she went live

and she had 22,000 people

watching her in her room.

And I just sort of, in

my mind, goes back

to Elton John concert here.

And she had more

people watching her.

Than we had at that

Elton John concert.

And it kind of way

out that's happening

in my daughter's

bedroom at the moment.

It was a bit yeah, different.

- Big fashion and

cosmetic brands

started noticing Rory

success on TikTok

and wanted to tap into

a growing audience.

Companies sponsor

influences like Rory.

And businesses pay TikTok

to advertise on the platform.

This is central to the app's

lucrative business model.

- In this work industry

being an influencer,

you have to present

yourself as a brand, you know.

We aren't really people

anymore, we're brands.

We're selling

products for brands.

So, you kind of

gotta look the part.

The money involved

it's enough to live off.

So, it's a pretty fair amount.

I'm about in the

medium to high range

of incomes in Australia.

So yeah. Very, very

descent.

- Well, it's hard not to

even be jealous sometimes

'cause you look at

our life and you know,

we get up and we go to

work and we come home.

And she can earn money

that can take us days

to earn in minutes.

- I found myself

driving and just crying,

having like a total breakdown.

And I found myself having

some really quite

nasty thoughts and-

- Rory shares her

life with 5 million people.

Even her lowest moments.

- Why am I meant

to be on this earth.

Like, why does no one like me?

Why do I have no friends?

But most days

she feels very alone.

- Okay. That's

an old name for,

Being away from people, it's

definitely lonely, you know.

I film, oh, four videos a day.

That's a good three

hours outta my day.

And then I've got

another eight hours

and I'm like, what the

heck am I gonna do

for the rest of the day? Like

I can't ring out my friends.

Like, y'all, want to hang

out? 'Cause they're at work.

So it definitely

gets lonely at times.

And you know,

sometimes if you're reading

the hate comments

and the stress load,

it can be so much for your body

and you're just overwhelmed

and you're lonely.

So that can also

creep into depression.

- Catherine hasn't

had a question.

I'm happy to return to you

but let's just keep it civil.

Andrew?

Catherine.

With people stuck

at home during lockdown,

desperate for entertainment.

TikTok became the world's

most downloaded app in 2020.

And it's continued to

hold that title this year.

- TikTok in Australia has

seen the same kind of bump

in 2020 as elsewhere

in the world.

In October of 2020, there were

an estimated 2.5

million users on TikTok.

Which was about a 50% growth

from earlier on in the year.

Of the popular

social media apps,

TikTok is the most addictive.

Late TikTok advertising

data shows users spend

an average of an hour and

a half on the app each day.

- You know it's like 8:00 PM

and I'm watching and watching

and then I look up at

my clock and it's 2:00 AM.

And I'm like, where the

heck did those hours go?

It's cause this, um, "For

You" page is so addictive.

It's just so spot on.

TikTok's algorithm

is its most valuable asset.

It's designed to

determine your interests

and send you

personalized content

to keep you on the app

for as long as possible.

- I went and saw my mama.

And I went and got my

hair done, as well just to-

- TikTok works by

recommending content to you

through your

activity on the app.

So the more that you

scroll through the app,

the better the

recommendations are tailored

to your specific interests.

Rather than selecting

content that you want to watch

like you would on

YouTube or on Netflix.

You primarily access

content through one main feed,

which is called the For

You page on TikTok.

Which is essentially just

an endlessly scrolling,

algorithmically

curated feed of videos

that refreshes each

time you open the app.

As soon as

you sign up to TikTok,

the app starts collecting data

about you, your

location, gender, and age,

and also your facial data

to figure out who you are

and what kind of

videos you want to see.

- Your face is a form

of biometric information.

And your face can be

analyzed to distinguish a range

of personality and

demographic traits.

TikTok collects your facial data

every time you make a video

or use a filter on the app.

And can even access photos

and videos saved on your phone

that aren't being

used on the platform.

To understand how an app

like TikTok interprets that data

scientists in Melbourne

have developed

what's called a

biometric mirror.

- So biometric

mirror for instance,

is trained by way of

artificial intelligence

to distinguish how

intelligent you are,

how attractive, how

weird, how responsible

and how emotionally

unstable you are.

The interesting thing

there is of course,

is that biometric mirror

bases it's assumptions

on a single

snapshot of your face.

So all of these assumptions

are generated based

on the exact

appearance of your face

at that exact microsecond

that the photo has been taken.

The TikTok algorithm

might read your face

and think that you are dealing

with a significant

mental health challenge.

You might be

presented with videos

that are created by

users with-going through

a similar challenge

at that time.

And it might really create a

very colored worldview for you

where it's really hard to deal

with your mental health

challenge at that time.

Lauren Hemings

is studying to be a midwife.

She used to spend

her uni breaks,

scrolling through TikTok.

- I think it was

quarantine boredom

that kind of motivated

me to download it.

It was quite an innocent hope

of just getting a

good laugh, really.

You know, like

getting funny videos

and seeing what was on it.

I never had the intention

of making TikToks

or sharing them.

It was more just kind of from

the viewpoint of a viewer.

Lauren started following

a popular fitness

influencer on the app.

- There's one woman who had

like quite a similar body type

to me and she'd expressed

that she was unhappy

with that body type.

And she had started tracking

calories over quarantine.

She had lost a really, really

significant amount of weight.

The algorithm

then flooded her feed

with content promoting

unhealthy weight loss.

- I was no longer saying

funny dance videos or anything.

It was just like

this complete focus

on that like fitness and

healthy lifestyle goal.

- TikTok pushed Lauren

toward the popular trend

of meticulously tracking how

many calories you eat in a day.

Something researches, warn,

promotes disordered eating.

The hashtag,

What I eat in a day,

has more than 7

billion views on TikTok.

- It turned into

like this obsession

and I felt that I

could not eat anything

without knowing how

many calories it contained

and without meeting, you

know, my target number

of calories throughout the day.

There was a few months

where I didn't put anything

into my mouth that

I had not weighed.

Four months

after downloading TikTok,

Lauren admitted to

her friends and family

she had an eating disorder.

- I'd like to think that I

wouldn't have struggled

with an eating disorder if I

hadn't downloaded TikTok.

I think, you know, TikTok

was the main contributor

to the development of that.

Young users are

increasingly turning to TikTok

to find and spread information

on how to restrict food

and hide their disordered,

eating from their families.

- What they do is they

actually share content

of what they go through and

what they have done for the day

in the fascination

to become thin.

So they would share recipes.

They would share diet plans.

They would share how

you need to be disciplined.

For someone who's

vulnerable and desperate,

they would follow

anyone's advice.

None of this advice

is actually good

because some of these

advice is, oh lick a pumpkin

for your lunch, but don't eat.

Drink a liter of water

and you should be fine.

- I was super hesitant

to get on TikTok

because I'd heard that

it was a really bad space

for people with

eating disorders.

Because the algorithm

knows everything

and then it would

curate your feed

to be interested

in that kind of stuff.

Claire Benstead

has been in and out of hospital

for anorexia for

more than five years.

She decided to download TikTok

to find support and to

promote her earrings business.

- You want that support

because it's such

an isolating illness.

And there's so many

people in my life

that don't get it and

don't understand it.

Claire says the

TikTok algorithm identified

she had an eating

disorder and she noticed

an immediate change to the

types of videos on her feed.

- So it went from

being, you know,

my algorithm was, you

know, Australian humor

and musical theater humor,

and all of that kind of stuff

to just being eating

disorder content all the time.

And as I got sicker and

I got more obsessive,

all I could do was just

flick through my phone,

and look at this footage.

I spent hours on it

and just fixated on it.

I wasn't recovering it all.

I was actively relapsing.

Claire was admitted to hospital.

As part of her treatment, her

psychologists worked with her

to remove the toxic

content from her TikTok feed

by unfollowing accounts

and reporting videos.

How long did it actually

take you to get rid

of that eating disorder

content from your algorithm.

Ages.

Pretty much being in hospital,

so probably two months,

it took me to

change the algorithm.

When you're kind of

scrolling through like this-

- Even while Claire was

showing me her

cleaned up TikTok feed,

videos about eating

disorders began reappearing.

Hey, there we go.

Here's one right now.

Just every five or six videos.

And so, I'm in a good spot

that this doesn't trigger me.

- So even though you're

saying not interested,

it's still coming up?

- It's still coming up.

If you report TikTok

videos, the company says

its moderators then

decide whether to ban them.

Which in turn is supposed

to teach the algorithm

to stop featuring them.

- I just say that

I'm not interested in that-

- TikToks policies,

say the app bans content

promoting, normalizing or

glorifying eating disorders.

And you can

say that it's offensive,

But when users like Claire,

have reported those

videos, they were told

they don't breach

any guidelines.

- You would think that, you

know, something this serious

and it's got the

highest mortality rate

of any mental illness,

you would think that,

that would be something

that you could report.

Because it is promoting

those behaviors

and it's making it worse.

TikTok also says it

bans pro eating

disorder hashtags

so users can search

for those videos.

And if they try to, a number

for eating disorder

support service,

the Butterfly Foundation

automatically pops up.

But users find ways around it.

- But the issue is now

that it's ever evolving.

Like there's a hashtag

now that people

with eating disorders use.

And you would never guess that

it was an eating

disorder hashtag.

Like it's after a famous singer.

So just changing them

to be completely irrelevant

from what an eating disorder is.

And so it's so hard

to escape now.

And I think it's

really hard for TikTok

to keep up with that all.

- There are mechanisms in place

to screen some of that content.

But a lot of it is also reliant

on human moderation.

And when you consider

the amount of videos

and the volume that is

being uploaded to TikTok,

it's a very difficult

task to imagine

human moderators

can catch everything.

Last year,

TikTok established a council

of outside experts to advise

the company about

content moderation.

David Polgar is one of them.

- As we know with great power

comes great responsibility.

There's a lot of power

in TikToks algorithm.

Therefore you have

to constantly be aware

of how it's impacting

other individuals

and other communities.

I think comparatively

speaking TikTok

has done a pretty decent job

with being more

reflective on rabbit holes

and how that can

affect individuals.

But at the same time, you're

dealing with human behaviour.

You're dealing with bad actors.

You're dealing with

major differences

of how people define appropriate

versus inappropriate.

And we have this tricky kind

of balancing act that's

constantly happening.

- TikTok's business model

is built on creating a fun,

glossy and glamorous

version of the world.

And the company has been found

to strictly control content

that doesn't fit

with that image.

In March last year, TikTok

policy documents were leaked.

Showing content

moderators were instructed

to suppress posts by creators

considered ugly,

poor or disabled.

The documents said,

"Videos, including

people who had chubby or obese

with ugly facial looks,

like too many wrinkles

or facial deformities

and other disabilities

should be excluded."

TikTok has said it no longer

engages in these practices.

- I don't want to

admit it, but looks

have a lot to do with it.

And you know, we're

all secretly a bit vain.

As much you don't

wanna admit it,

you go for looks over

non-looks, you know.

So I think looks definitely

have a lot to do with it.

And if you look at all the

really big time influencers,

they're all beautiful.

Like, if you look at

all these influencers,

they're all stunning, like

nothing wrong with them.

So I think looks definitely

have a lot to do with it.

Much of TikTok's popularity

is driven by dance trends,

choreographed by black creators

and then copied

by white influencers.

But black content makers say

that the platform actively

discriminates against them.

Think it's high

time we let black women

on this app also be famous

for doing the bare minimum.

Like I should be able

to just sit here in silence,

and let y'all look at me

and the next thing you know,

I have a million followers.

- Petition for black

people for the rest

of April to stop talking.

- There have been instances

of black creator

led mass walk offs

from the platform

called Blackouts.

Where on a certain day,

black creators will

stop using the platform

or urge other creators

to leave the platform

because of TikToks inaction

and failure to respond to

or engage with

some of the criticisms

and the discourse that

black creators have raised.

So if the company continues

to be reactive and responsive,

rather than proactive and

really meaningfully engage,

then these issues are

gonna continue to occur.

- Often, it makes me

quite furious, I guess,

'cause it's like

these black creators,

they got talent, they're

out here dancing

and showing what

they're capable of.

So it's kind of very

much disappointing

and hard on us when

we're out here expected

to have all of these in

order to get the views

in order to get the

likes and shares.

But no matter how much we try,

we're just not gonna get that.

- Unice Wani is an 18 year

old TikTok creator from Perth.

- I like this one.

Look and see.

I feel like the more I go viral,

the more I can basically

show the younger generation

and show more

colored girls, I guess,

or people out there like

I'm okay in my own skin

and I love myself the way I am.

I don't care what social

media says about me.

What people on the other side

of the screen says about me.

You can be yourself

at the end of the day.

Let me quickly address this-

- As her following grew,

so did the hateful comments.

And she decided to

confront the issue on the app.

- So a majority of you

guys still feel the need

to comment about my skin

color and about how dark I am

and about how black, black,

black, black, black I am.

Well, guess what?

I'm black and I'm so proud.

- Unice says often

her videos are hidden

or muted from the TikTok feed.

Meaning few people see them.

A practice known

as Shadow Banning.

- Are you pressed?

Are you mad?

Are you upset?

Are you sad?

Sorry, what?

I guess you tend to

get a lot of shadow bans

for speaking up about

stuff such as racism.

Stuff you couldn't mention.

One word, black,

could say all of this

and your video could

get shadow banned.

When you post a video,

the video, just it's on the app.

It's just, you're not

gonna get any views for it.

So you can see it. It's just

other people can't see it

when they go onto

your account as well.

So it's up there. It's just,

it's not going to get any views.

Last year

TikTok creators noticed

the algorithm was

suppressing posts

with the hashtag Black

Lives Matter or George Floyd.

- So word on the street

is that TikTok has banned

the Black Lives Matter hashtag.

One of those

creators was Sydney man,

Paniora Nukunuku,

who had created

a video using a pool table

to explain the Black Lives

Matter issue to Australians.

- This is a white

Australia table.

And they pretty much

had 200 years head-start

and they had established

everything in the country.

So their break looks like this.

Bro, can you get home

ownership in business?

Beautiful.

That was spicy.

That blew up bigger

than I thought it would.

I just need to put this here.

Boy, what the,

- Don't worry. It's trauma,

injustice and discrimination.

But I said, sorry,

so it should be fine.

So just go for it, bro.

It was the biggest video

at the time that I've done.

I think you're just

being lazy, hey.

I don't know why.

Oh, I do know why,

because it was good.

I shouldn't look at

the camera, but I'm

just really proud right now.

Using these two cue balls,

I'll explain to

you, that resulted

in my account getting banned

for like seven days.

I don't know why.

They claimed that my video

breached community guidelines,

which is extremely vague

because there is no swearing,

there is no explicit language.

There's no nudity or

explicit like sexual stuff.

None of that.

And my account got banned.

- The Black Lives Matter

is trending on TikTok,

which is ironic considering

how much time TikTok spends

silencing the voices

of black creators.

TikTok apologized

for suppressing hashtags,

referring to Black Lives Matter,

blaming a glitch

in the algorithm.

- Let's take a moment

of silence for this man.

- The company responded

with a new initiative

for black creators called the

TikTok Black Creator Programme.

I've spoken to creators

who had been approached

for that programme, who

felt that it was lip service.

It wasn't really a

well-meaning effort

to engage with black voices

and engage with discourse

that is important to

black communities.

Paniora, has more than

180,000 followers on TikTok.

He often posts about

living with a disability.

- So growing up

with the fake leg,

I always got in trouble

every time I park

in my disabled spot.

The first video I

did, was me going up

to a pool and telling

my friends to record me,

dip my fake leg in the

water to test the water out.

It was a really dumb idea.

But for some reason,

people loved it.

And in this space

of eight hours,

it hit about 780,000 views.

If you have this many

followers and that many likes,

it's 'cause you're pretty.

If you have this many followers

and the same amount of likes,

you're just funny.

Paniora ran into trouble

with the TikTok censors

when he posted a

video of a confrontation

with someone

who was telling him,

he shouldn't have

a disability permit

- So this old lady had

the nerve to ask me

if this is my disability card.

This,

I wonder if this is enough.

The video was taken down.

TikTok said it breached the

app's community guidelines.

Paniora appealed

and it was put back up.

But he's had other videos

about his disability

removed as well.

- You don't need

to worry about it.

The video got taken down

and I didn't even know it

until I looked back

at the hashtags

and decided to see which

videos that I've done

have like made it to the

top and that wasn't there.

I appealed it and I don't

know why that was taken down.

Don't ever do that again.

Do I feel like TikTok

is being racist?

I don't know.

Has TikTok been

hit up in the past,

around the moderators being told

to limit the exposure of

disabled people and ugly people?

Yes. They've been

called out on that.

Is this happening again?

I hope not, but it

definitely feels like it has.

We know

that to decolonize Palestine

means also to decolonize-

- I'll probably keep

moving, get some shots.

In may of this year,

Paniora posted a video

from a pro-Palestine rally.

But TikTok's

algorithm flagged it.

And it was instantly taken down.

Other creators posting

TikToks about Palestine

have said they've

experienced the same thing.

- When TikTok started

removing my videos

about the protests in regards

to the Palestinian

situation, I was furious.

I was like, why? There

is nothing in these videos

that would justify,

like a removal.

There really isn't.

- One of the big

problems with TikTok

and the unique nature

of its opaque algorithm,

is that it's very

difficult to understand

or to recognise when

censorship is taking place.

People came together to try to-

- So it is possible

for content on the app

to be promoted or demoted

without anyone knowing.

- I'm so sick and tired of

every social media platform

silencing Palestinian voices.

- But we also see evidence

of how content moderation

that takes place in China.

How that type of

thinking is still applied

to TikTok outside of China.

TikTok is owned by

Chinese start-up, ByteDance,

which is believed to be

worth more than $250 billion.

It's heavily regulated by

the Chinese government.

And there's a Communist

Party Internal Committee

in ByteDance, which ensures

the parties political goals

are pursued alongside

the company's.

- We have to be extra concerned

about how apps like

TikTok can be used

as a vector for censorship

and surveillance.

- The Australian

Strategic Policy Institute

did the first

academic investigation

into censorship on TikTok,

concluding the company

actively uses the algorithm

to hide political speech

it deems controversial.

The research was funded

by the US State Department

and found anti-Russian

government videos

as well as hashtags

about LGBTQI issues

and the mass

detention of Uyghurs

were among those

being suppressed.

- The company has cooperated

with public security bureaus

all throughout China

and including in Xinjiang.

And that means that they work,

they coordinate with

government agencies

to ensure that the

information space in China

is pumped full of

this propaganda.

That shows a very rosy picture

of what's happening in Xinjiang.

In 2018, then CEO of ByteDance

was forced to

publicly apologise.

Saying one of the

company's platforms

had gone against China's

core socialist values.

- We have a very

clear public statement

from the founder of ByteDance,

that this is something that

he's committed to doing

and to ensuring that

the company continues

to push this type of propaganda,

certainly inside of China.

Whether that is then extended

out to the rest of the world

via apps like TikTok,

is another question.

And it's something

worth watching.

In a statement TikTok said,

it does not moderate

or remove content

based on political

sensitivities.

And has never

content at the request

of the Chinese government.

It also said it

embraces diversity

and denied it discriminates

against any creator

or community on our platform.

- We've known for a

better part of a decade,

both here in the

US and in Australia,

about the concerns

raised by the prevalence

of Chinese

telecommunications companies.

And so then the next

question became,

well, what about all

these apps that have,

of companies that are

headquartered in China?

They're collecting tremendous

amounts of user data.

They have access to

the devices of individuals.

Jamil Jaffer is Founder

of the National Security

Institute in Washington.

And has advised the us

government on cyber-security.

- In China, it's all the

central government,

the Communist Party.

There's no separation

between the branches.

And so, when these

apps have all that data,

it's much easier for

the Chinese government

to simply obtain

access to that data.

- My understanding is that,

about a quarter of

the world's population

is a member of TikTok

if I'm not mistaken.

So that's obviously an

enormous amount of data

that's being generated.

That's being

handed over for free

to that single social network

that has pretty

much full control

over what it does to the data.

It might analyze it to

generate personalized content

for you, but it might

also use that data

to offer technology

products and services

to other companies

moving forward in the future.

- Hello, it's Avani in Sydney.

How's it going?

- Hi.

Anne Longfield is England's

former children's commissioner.

Anne's interview, take one.

- She's representing

millions of kids on TikTok

in the UK and Europe in a class

action against the company.

- My claim with TikTok

at the moment is that,

they are harvesting huge

amounts of data illegally

without the consent of

children or their parents.

And they aren't

giving the right level

of transparency about

what happens to that data,

or actually what

that data includes.

Almost a third of TikTok's

Australian users are under 14.

Lawyers say TikTok

takes personal information

like phone numbers, videos,

locations, and facial data

from kids without their consent.

As well as the photos and

videos recorded using TikTok,

but not uploaded or

saved to the platform.

- Given the level of data

and the lack of transparency

around there, it's

difficult to imagine

that this isn't just a kind of

information gathering service,

which is thinly veiled as some

kind of enjoyable platform,

which appeals to young children.

So the real incentive here,

when you look at it

in really cold terms,

seems to be, to gather

as much data as possible

to really be able

to monetize that.

TikTok's already

been fined millions of dollars

in the US and South Korea

for harvesting children's data.

The company restricted

app access for children

and has taken down millions

of under-age users' accounts.

There's been no legal

action in Australia.

- I think that governments

do have a responsibility

to intervene to

ensure that children

are protected in whatever

kind of environment they're in.

And you see those

protections and measures

in terms of the

physical environment,

in terms of their

safety, you know,

in the communities they live in,

in the environments they are.

But it hasn't always

been the case online.

And some governments have

struggled to see

what that means.

If the case is successful,

TikTok could have

to pay children

from the UK and Europe,

billions in compensation.

TikTok is fighting the case.

In a statement,

the company said,

"Privacy and safety are

top priorities for TikTok

and we have robust

policies, processes,

and technologies in place

to help protect all users

and our teenage

users in particular.

We believe the claims lack merit

and intend to vigorously

defend the action."

The US government

is reviewing TikTok

and hasn't ruled out a ban.

- The real question

you ask is, what

about the national

security implications?

So, okay. Yes, a lot of

people are using it, right.

But why does that matter?

And it matters, I think,

because of the access,

it gives you to this

large amount of data.

You never think about the

Chinese government in Beijing,

having videos of

you in your home,

outside your home, at

the park with your kids,

knowing who your kids play with.

I mean, that's

what they have now

potentially with this data set.

We've seen now two

consecutive presidents

sign executive orders,

making clear that they

are very concerned

about the national

security implications

of TikTok's data collection.

As well as the impact it has

on the privacy and civil

liberties of Americans.

India has

announced a ban on TikTok.

And in July last year, Prime

Minister Scott Morrison

ordered a review by intelligence

agencies into the app.

We are always

very mindful of those risks

and we are always

monitoring them very closely.

And if we've considered,

there is a need

to take further action

than we are taking now,

then I can tell you, we

won't be shy about it.

- It's certainly a

security concern

that the data of

Australian users

is potentially going

back to Beijing.

TikTok maintained

that this is not the case.

And our analysis showed that

there's certainly

not a fire hose

of content that's being

sent back to Beijing.

But that doesn't mean that,

that content can't be accessed

from Beijing, if

that's required.

How are you going?

- I'm good, thank

you. How are you?

TikTok maintains

Australian users' data

is held on servers in

the US and Singapore.

And that it has

never provided data

to the Chinese government.

Staff in the Home Affairs

and Defense Departments

have been told not to

have TikTok on their phones

because of security risks.

But Scott Morrison said

there wasn't enough evidence

to ban TikTok in Australia.

- The scope of the

investigation did seem

to be quite limited.

And that scope is not

really enough to be able

to tell the rest of Australia

and regular Australian citizens,

whether it's a good idea

for them to be using the app.

- There should definitely

be another more rigorous

and lengthy review into TikTok

to fully understand the

risks that TikTok presents.

- And so if you just look

at TikTok in isolation,

and say, well, it's

just this one app,

and it's just kids

doing dancing videos.

It seems innocuous.

But it's really takes place

in this much larger context

of data collection,

artificial intelligence,

and a real effort by the

Chinese to consolidate influence

in the region and

across the globe.

In just two years,

TikTok has cemented

itself as the app of choice

for millions of Australians.

- So you guys kept telling

me to go on the Voice 2021.

So, I did.

There are serious concerns

that TikToks fun and

beautiful version of reality

is distorting the way

we see the world.

And questions about whether

its users understand the risks.

- So we're really at risk

of having generations

of young people

that haven't been able

to form their own

identity in natural ways.

And instead have

formed identities

in response to something

that a technology

or a technology

platform prescribes

to be the normal

or the new normal.

- Last time this lady

came up to me and go,

you don't look disabled enough.

I don't look disabled enough?

- I understand that

TikTok is trying its very best

to make the platform

palatable to everyone

by just having fun dance

videos and lip sync videos.

But I know that my

content gives value

to so many people

who look like me.

Who live the same life like me.

Who are brown like me.

- I ended up cutting off

TikTok like after a few months.

But even with that,

like it still left me

with the eating

disorder, you know.

Like, TikTok kind of led to

the development and then

it has taken a really,

really long time to fix that.

TikTok isn't out

here to help people.

I don't think it's

coming to the world

with this intention

of helping people.

If they're going to make

money off of something,

then they will make

money off of something.

I think they maybe

need to realise

the impact that is

having on people.