Thought Crimes: The Case of the Cannibal Cop (2015) - full transcript

( music playing )

( computer chimes )

Man:

When you're behind a computer

screen late at night,

no one knows

who you are,

where you are.

I became part of

this cyber community

where people are exploring

deviant thoughts

and exploring

their fetishes.

I'm not the only one out there

with these thoughts.

They were accepted.

The anonymity makes you

try and outdo

the other person...

who could be

the sicker one,

who could be

the more depraved one.

The baby was sleeping,

the mom was sleeping,

there was

just nothing to do.

And you shut

the computer off

and that's it...

I go back to being

the regular me.

But someone might say

the anonymous nature

could also bring out

who you really are.

In my worst nightmare,

I could never have guessed

that this would've happened.

Reporter:

Breaking news, an almost

unbelievable story.

A New York City police officer

has been arrested

in a failed plot

to kidnap dozens of women,

cook them,

and then eat them.

Reporter #2:

Gilberto Valle has become

known as the "Cannibal Cop."

The 28-year-old's wife

uncovered the alleged plot.

Reporter #3:

Charged in a conspiracy

to commit kidnapping,

and allegedly

used NYPD computers

to get information

on a list of victims.

Reporter #4:

Defense lawyers did not deny

his online activity

but called it

a sexual fantasy

that he would never

act on.

Woman:

These are thoughts,

very ugly thoughts,

but we don't

prosecute people

for their thoughts.

Reporter:

It comes down to this.

Is this guy

just fantasizing,

or is there enough

evidence to suggest

he was really

planning to do this?

Man:

There's nothing

we like better than,

at least in fiction,

a killer.

You know, the worst,

meanest, baddest,

roughest, toughest,

serial killer in the world...

let's get inside

their heart and mind

and figure out exactly

what they're about.

And there are

story archetypes

that we all sort of

adhere to.

Gil, as the Cannibal Cop,

was typed as well,

whether it was

the monster of the week

or as this week's

Hannibal Lecter,

or as a master criminal,

or as a vicious beast

who needed to be controlled.

Not only was

this someone

who seemed to

have been planning

to abduct and eat his wife

and other women,

but the idea of him

wandering around with a badge

was something so devious

that it was unbelievable.

Shocked.

But then when it actually

made it to trial,

there were two sides

to this story.

And when the defense

stood up and said

this is

a thought police case,

then suddenly it got

even more theatrical

and more interesting.

It was the best

that true crime

has to offer,

because it was

about a crazy side

of human behavior

that we don't get to see,

and that's

what was happening

in real life here.

( music playing )

Woman:

Papa! Come here, look!

Woman:

Audio's good?

Man:

Just give me a check one,

check two.

Check one, check two.

- Woman: Ready to go?

- Mm-hmm.

There were lot of myths

about what was going on here.

You get a picture painted

in your head,

you get a story.

And you just start,

once you have

that initial concept,

once you have

that preconceived notion,

you start to seek out

pieces of information

that go with that,

that jibe with it,

and you disregard things

that go against that.

You know, I want everyone

to have all the facts

in front of them

before they make up

their minds for themselves.

I grew up

in Queens, New York.

My parents separated

at an early age.

Oh, wow!

Mom was more soft love.

You know, she was there for

emotional support.

Dad would be the one

to kick you in the butt.

He was very,

you know, strict,

and we didn't want to

disappoint my dad.

Reporter:

Valle's arrest comes after

the FBI obtained

detailed accounts

of the barbaric plans.

The government says

Valle made his sick plans

in online chat rooms.

His father, in disbelief.

- Of course, I'm shocked.

- Is it possible?

I don't think so.

Gil Valle, Sr.:

As a parent, now that

all this has happened,

a lot of different things

come into the mind.

Is he crazy?

You know, all this stuff

coming together.

What is he?

Is he crazy?

Woman:

How did you feel

when you heard

the first allegations

about cannibalism

and kidnapping?

I couldn't believe it.

I said, "That's not my son."

I'm, like,

"There's gotta be a mistake.

That's not my son."

Gileto, mama kiss.

Gileto kiss.

Gileto kiss.

The first time

I actually heard these

Internet chats...

that's when I noticed,

I'm like, "Okay, my son

did have a problem."

For the good boy

that I know

to be discussing women

in such a way,

it was just horrible.

But if anything,

he needed help.

See a psychiatrist.

See a therapist.

I mean, I'm not saying

whether it's right or wrong,

but you know,

some people choose

to let out their frustrations

by going to the gym,

punching a punching bag.

That might work for them.

For some it might be

getting on a site

like this

and fantasizing,

you know,

thoughts of...

horrible thoughts like that.

Well, he created a monster.

He's a good writer.

I mean, how could

anybody believe

that one person

is gonna kidnap

a hundred women

and cook and eat

a hundred women.

Which one was

in the trunk of his car?

Which one was

in the spit over the fire?

Which one was in the oven?

Man: The fact

that he's sitting there

in his apartment

while his wife

and baby are asleep

in the next room,

and he's talking about,

you know,

slitting her throat,

and the fact

that he's going around

in his police uniform

all contribute to a sense

of dread around it.

But was he involved in

the planning of a real crime?

And at what point is it

appropriate to step in?

There was

no real-world attempt.

But when they went through

his computer,

they found 24 sets

of conversations.

In 21 of them people said,

"Hey, is this for real?"

And Gil Valle said,

"No, this is a fantasy.

No matter what I say,

it's all make believe."

But in three,

he never said that.

In fact,

there were some moments

in those chats

where one of the participants

would say,

"Hey are you for real?"

And Gil Valle would say,

yes, he was.

That could seem

like evidence

that this was

a real conspiracy.

We do not have thought crime

in this country.

We do not prosecute people

for what they think.

It is permissible to have

all of the thoughts

from a criminal law enforcement

point of view

that Gilberto Valle had.

What's impermissible is

planning with another person

to execute on those thoughts.

Two charges had been

brought against him,

conspiracy to kidnap,

as well as an unauthorized use

of a law enforcement database

in order to gain

some information about

one of the victims.

Man: Conspiracy

is the prosecutor's

favorite instrument.

In order to be convicted

of an attempt,

you have to not only

intend to do it,

but you have to go

beyond preparation

and cross a line that suggests

that you're gonna do it

unless something stops you.

Conspiracy allows you

to move that line back.

If two people

just talk about doing

something terrible

and agree to do it,

and then take one overt act,

they can be prosecuted

and put in jail

for the rest of their lives.

Woman:

The overt act doesn't have

to be a crime itself.

You know,

it's not like you say

"Let's go rob a bank,"

and the overt act then

is you steal a car

to be a getaway car.

It could be

something that is entirely

lawful otherwise,

it just might have

special meaning here.

DeMarco:

The defendant talked about

disabling his victims

using chloroform.

He then searched

"how to make chloroform".

The defendants

talked about stalking

their victims,

and in fact

there was a search

of a proprietary

law enforcement-only database

as to where

one of the victims lived.

This is not a simple case

of where you're

going after somebody

just who thought

some evil thoughts.

He took lots of steps

in the direction

of possibly doing

terrible things.

Engber:

He traveled to Maryland

to visit one of

the alleged intended victims.

This target

of his supposed plot

was his college friend.

If you think

this is a dangerous,

dangerous man,

then everything

that he did in real life

takes on this really

ominous color to it.

This trip to Maryland

with his wife and baby

could seem like

a recon mission

for a murderous

kidnapping plot.

If he in fact was planning

to kill somebody specifically,

then all of these

would be overt acts

within any meaning

of the law.

The question is

what was in his mind?

And I'm not sure he knew.

Reporter :

Opening statements today

in the trial

of the Cannibal Cop.

Reporter #2:

In the words of both

the prosecution

and defense attorneys,

this is going to be

a bizarre trial.

Woman:

I don't get to draw

nudes very often.

I usually see people

sitting in a chair

looking straight ahead

at a judge.

But I got to do

people on spits,

women being cooked

and roasted,

and visuals

of Dark Fetish Net.

If you pull in,

you could see

little naked bodies.

It's pretty amazing.

I've never really

seen anything like that

in a trial.

Man:

There were reporters there

from all over the country.

We'd heard a lot

about this case,

but now all of it

was being laid out

in front of us

for the first time.

There were three

alleged co-conspirators.

Michael Van Hise,

somebody in Pakistan

known as AliKhan,

and a man in England

known as Moody Blues.

He had this plan written out

for how to kidnap women.

He was planning on building

a pulley apparatus

in his basement

to string women up

and torture them

and slow roast them.

Says he had a giant oven

that he planned on

stuffing these women into.

It all sounded crazy,

but potentially true.

Woman:

We had a tome of the chats

copied for us.

And we were in

the position to determine

how much of it was real

and how much

of it was fantasy.

I think we all agreed,

this man has a problem.

This is sick.

This is really quite sick.

But we weren't there

to convict on his sick mind.

We were there to convict

on a conspiracy to kidnap,

and kill,

and maim, and rape.

What made it very real

was that he took pictures

from real people in his life

and shared them

on these sites.

And that, for me,

takes it past fantasy.

He had what was

called a blueprint,

and he had made a list

of what he needed.

He had the ability to

retrieve all these materials.

That made it

very real to us

that any one of these women

could have been

a true victim of his.

Gregorian:

Alisa Friscia early on

became major figure

in the case.

Investigators said

Gil had been stalking her.

Kolker:

When Gil starts

talking money

with Michael Van Hise,

that shift in tone

is chilling.

He's suddenly very, you know,

grisly and mechanical,

and let's talk turkey,

here's how

we're gonna get it done.

And that feels like

things are starting

to get more real.

These fantasies

were really, really scary.

And the level of detail

that Gil talked about

and that other people

talked about on the Internet

was also really,

really scary.

The reality, of course...

coming back to reality...

is that none of the things

that they said

ever came to pass.

They often missed dates.

"They said,

"Okay, I'll call you

on Tuesday,

and we'll do

something then."

And then nothing

happens on Tuesday.

Nothing happens

for three Tuesdays.

And then nothing

ever happens at all.

These are fantasies.

Gregorian:

There was no giant oven

that could fit

somebody inside of it.

There was no pulley apparatus

being set up in the basement.

In fact,

the basement was

a laundry room

for everyone

in his Queens apartment

building to use,

and wouldn't be

a very good torture chamber.

Let's put it this way,

if this was done

on Craigslist,

you would know you

were being scammed.

He didn't have

any of the things

you would need

according to his

own blueprints and plans

on how to do this.

He made up

false information.

It wouldn't be effective.

Valle:

You read about the case,

you read about these chats,

and you're horrified.

You're turned off.

You want to step away.

And you're just like,

"This guy is a monster."

You know, whatever.

Yeah, this is

depraved language

and unconventional thoughts,

but there's no evidence.

Reporter:

Shock in the courtroom.

Guilty of conspiracy

to commit kidnapping.

Also guilty

of wrongfully accessing

a federal database.

Liz Valle:

I almost froze in time.

And all I kept hearing was,

"Guilty, guilty, guilty."

For me to see

him in shackles,

it's heartbreaking.

But, you know,

through all this

I haven't cried until now.

And I feel like

I want to scream.

I never let it out.

He's not a cannibal.

He never ate anyone.

Isn't that

the true definition

of a cannibal,

is someone

that eats human meat?

Reporter:

How are you doing?

Out of all due respect,

how are you doing?

Look at me.

I'm strong.

Valle:

I went back to the prison,

and that's when

I broke down.

I didn't want to do

it in front of my family,

but I broke down.

I hear a couple law officer

stalking outside.

One of them comes in says,

"Valle got convicted."

And another one says,

"Get the fuck out.

I thought that guy

was going home."

Obviously the

case involved thoughts

that were unusual

and bizarre

and frankly very ugly.

And I...

we think that the jury

just couldn't get past that.

Gatto: The conviction

was devastating

to everyone

on the defense team.

You're representing

a human being

whose liberty

is on the line,

and when you lose,

you lost it for

this human being.

I just think the jury

didn't want to have

the "What if?" moment.

Sure, he didn't act

in the real world.

Sure, this was

all in cyberspace.

But what if?

We were always worried

that thought would prevail

over an objective,

rational,

non-emotional

view of the evidence.

People can be prosecuted

for their thoughts

and convicted,

which is even sadder

to think about.

Recording:

This call is from

a federal prison.

Valle on phone:

At this point,

I'm pretty depressed

every day.

Everyone thinks

I'm facing sentencing.

You know, technically,

I'm not yet.

I'm still waiting to hear

from the judge.

They keep saying

a couple weeks more,

and then it gets

pushed back,

and it gets pushed back again,

and again, and again.

Julia emailed me

and she said

she doesn't think

it's gonna be good.

The Cannibal Cop case

really raises

the big question,

what is the line between

thought and action?

Right? Between

fantasy and crime.

And it's so gray.

In a case where

there's no victim,

there's no harm,

was there enough

evidence to show

there had been

an overt act?

Engber:

The government was saying

that all of

his Google searches

were overt acts

in furtherance

of a conspiracy.

Gil at some point is thinking

about eating people

and he starts typing,

"How do you abduct a girl."

He starts doing research

into chloroform

and baking pans

and knives for cutting

people up.

But the idea

that a Google search

would constitute

an overt act,

I think, is dangerous.

That's where you get

into thought crime.

Kolker:

When we think about

thought crime,

we think about, you know,

George Orwell and "1984",

you think about

the thought police.

You think about

being put away

simply because of something

that's in your head.

Thought crime

in the modern age,

in the post

George Orwell age,

becomes more

of a question of technology

and its power to see

what's on our minds

much more often

than it used to be able to.

Woman: It's possible

for the Internet

to know more about you

than your best friend does,

than your family members do,

because what you type in

the Google search box

is often a very,

very private thing.

Things you wouldn't even tell

your friends and family.

Engber:

His wife is typing in

things like,

"My husband

doesn't love me."

It's very sad to see,

but I think it shows

that Google searching

is just an extension

of the thoughts

we have in our heads.

Sometimes we're sitting

at our computer alone

and we just type them in.

Kolker:

A lot of the searches

that Gil was doing

are as open to interpretation

as those chats are.

And one of the cases

made by the defense

was that this was

storytelling.

That the

Dark Fetish Network

was some sort of communitarian

storytelling exercise.

The same way that

the prosecution is arguing

that the chats are a window

into Gil's thoughts,

we can also

look at literature

as a window into

the author's thoughts.

Someone like Stephen King

can write any number

of disturbing things

about human behavior,

and nobody's

putting him in jail.

Why is it that

we're fascinated

by stories about violence?

If you read,

if you view movies,

our stories move us

immediately into a safe space

where we can imagine

the worst thing possible,

our darkest side.

Man: All these

violent stories go back to

what our most basic

primal feelings are.

We have propensity

for violence.

We have propensity for

all sorts of horrible acts.

But if you can act on

those urges in stories,

then you don't act on them

in real life... in theory.

Tatar:

The Cannibal Cop case

worries me because

we're entering a new era,

and it's almost

uncharted territory.

It's always been fairly easy

for us to draw a line

between fantasy and reality.

I mean, there are

the stories and images,

and then there's

what happens in real life.

Well, we are in

the postmodern era,

where these boundaries

are becoming

more and more

difficult to draw.

Murphy:

It's a daunting

prospect to think

that everything

we do on the Internet

is in fact a window

into our true

authentic selves.

It's more that

the Internet invites us

to be both who we are

and who we are not.

The fear that a space

for open trading of fantasy

becomes instead a policed zone

in which, you know,

your thoughts may signal

your future action

is a real one.

If we don't

protect that space,

I think we'll find ourselves

in a much different society

than the one that many of us

thought we signed up for.

Anybody should be allowed

to write a dirty story

on the Internet,

or have a dirty fantasy,

even if it's gruesome

and tasteless

and not something

you would necessarily

want to talk to your mum

about over dinner.

That's fine.

It stops being fine

when other real people

are involved.

That this guy

used police databases

to track down women,

and he used his privileges

as an officer of the law

to do that,

oh, it just sends

a shiver down my spine.

I just can't...

I just can't even.

It's an extraordinary

breach of trust

between the police

as an entity

and the public at large.

It wasn't just

thought crime.

It was real crime.

The idea that everything

that happens

on the Internet

is fantasy

and it's not really real

is dangerous.

It's just another way

of not wanting to

confront the fact

that these evil thoughts

and behaviors exist

within human beings.

It's not a product

of technology

or possession by the devil

or any kind

of outside force.

It comes from us.

The darkness comes from us.

Look what I still have...

his police uniform.

I don't know

why I kept it.

Well, we're not

going to wear that.

Certainly not.

This doesn't...

Oh, do I have to iron now?

Oh, God.

I'm so nervous.

The judge is making

a decision today.

I called my family.

I called my closest friends.

I'm like, "Pray for me.

Pray for me."

Because if there's

going to be bad news,

I've been holding up

all this time, Erin.

I've been holding up

and I've been strong,

but if I were

to get bad news,

"I think that would be

the end of me."

I just want to give him

a really big hug,

that nobody tells me,

"Ma'am, ma'am,

you got to leave."

You know? I just want

to hold onto him.

I hope he doesn't

have to spend

one more night

in that cell.

Julia did say that,

you know,

if the news is bad,

we still have

other options.

And what I said to

her is, like,

"Well, in the meantime,

my son is sitting

in jail."

Another year?

Another two years?

How much longer?

It's going to be

a media frenzy,

but I'm not

talking to anyone.

Reporter:

Can you tell us

what you know

is going to

happen this morning?

No.

Watch the steps,

please.

Gil Valle, Sr.:

I want to see him

not be a felon.

I want to see him

be acquitted.

He didn't commit

any crimes.

Valle:

I'd like to make a very,

very brief statement.

I want to take

this opportunity

to apologize

to everyone who

has been hurt, shocked,

and offended by

my infantile actions.

I also want

to thank my family.

From day one,

their support never wavered.

I've needed that

more than you...

anyone will ever know during

this impossible situation.

Forgive me, I'm tired.

I want to go home

and spend some time

with my family.

Thank you very much.

Reporter:

After 17 months in jail,

do you feel

that justice has

been done?

Cohen:

Granting a judgment

of acquittal

on sufficiency

of evidence grounds,

which is what

the judge granted,

is very, very unusual.

And it was

front page news.

And an acquittal

means what?

It means you're

not guilty. Okay?

Doesn't mean

that you're innocent.

One could interpret

at least some of

the things Gil did

as something that wasn't

completely consistent

with innocence.

It could be considered

an overt act

when he went

to the police database

looking for targets.

How are you gonna feel

if you let him off

and he goes

out and eats somebody?

Valle:

Those people have been there

since 7 this morning.

Even though I'm acquitted,

I'm in home confinement.

You know,

I haven't really gotten

the cabin fever yet,

but, yeah, I mean,

a day like today,

I'd love to be outside,

obviously.

Liz Valle:

Last night, I'm home,

and my son is here,

and I thought

I was dreaming.

I couldn't believe it.

Until this morning

when he's like,

"Ma, I need underwear.

Ma, I need this.

Ma, I need that."

- I didn't know

where anything was.

- My boy is home!

- I didn't know

where anything was.

- My boy is home!

Everything got packed up

from my apartment.

- I wasn't there.

- He doesn't know

where anything is.

There we go.

Nobody's alarmed

that I have a fork

in my hand

with people around?

Everyone's good?

- All right

- Be careful.

- You gotta laugh about it.

- Of course.

He's a danger

to society.

The victims

are in danger.

Valle:

I read the ruling

late last night.

I mean, the judge

just slammed them.

Somewhere

in the page 80s

there's like five

straight paragraphs

where he ends

all of them with, uh,

this can only make sense

as a fantasy role-play.

It means...

it makes no sense

whatsoever

in a real conspiracy.

He ends, like,

five straight paragraphs

like that.

- All right.

- Bye, Julia. Thank you.

Bye, everyone.

Thanks, take care.

Liz:

Does this come off?

Or we have to wait

- I don't know.

- for the government's appeal?

No, we have to wait

for the appeal.

Oh.

That could be...

that could be months.

Mm-hmm.

Valle: This is something

that was private, anonymous,

it was a little bit

of a skeleton in my closet,

and now here, everything...

this massive skeleton is out.

It's the epitome

of embarrassment

to sit in that trial

and have all these emails

and chats read.

I mean, it was like,

"Did I... how the hell

did I come up with

something like that?"

It was...

It was... it was bad.

I really don't know how

I came across it at first.

But, um...

it was there,

I tried it out...

and people thought

I was pretty good.

People accepted it,

you know?

I mean, yeah,

I had a stressful job,

but uh, I don't know how much

that played into all that.

You know, I could've

gone out and got drunk.

I could've stayed up

and watched TV.

So I don't know

if that had to do

with a lot of it.

Woman:

Sexual fetishism

is where our id comes out

to play sexually.

An item, a predicament,

a mood triggers an arousal

that is much greater

than a simple bodily arousal.

It's really difficult

to understand

why someone

would be interested

in something like that.

Man: A lot of people

have asked the question,

"Where does

this come from?"

because they think

that something went wrong.

Some abuse, some trauma,

bad parenting,

many things

have been blamed.

Woman:

Gileto fell down.

Because we don't know clearly

where things come from,

there's a lot of room

for interpretation,

and there's a lot of room

for judgment,

and a lot of room

for saying things like,

"They chose this.

This is something

that they could un-choose."

But we don't choose

what we're aroused by.

- ( man growls )

- ( laughing )

- ( growls )

- ( laughing )

Man:

We live in a very Victorian,

puritanical culture

when it comes to sexuality.

The overt part of

our culture

sexually is very open.

We exploit it,

we talk about it,

we model it,

we advertise with it.

It's in our music.

It's in our art.

It's in our television.

It's in our movies.

But covertly,

I think people are pretty

uncomfortable

with their own sexuality.

And when you

juxtapose that schism

between overt expression

and covert inhibition,

I think that's what creates

sexual pathology,

and sexual problems,

and sexually-compulsive

behavior.

Woman: Did Gil

ever ask you questions

about sex growing up?

Not really.

When he went to college,

I got him a box of Trojans,

you know?

I said, "Be careful.

Don't use them all at once."

I don't know.

Something like that.

But he just laughed

and took them.

Blue:

It sounds to me

like he was raised

in an atmosphere

where people didn't

really talk about sex

and anything

that fell outside

of what was

considered acceptable

was horrifying, shameful,

and something's wrong with me

and I'm broken.

Liz:

I thought about what led him

to get on these sites,

and I wonder if

it had anything to do

with our divorce.

Woman:

Why did you guys decide

to get divorced?

I really don't want

to get into that.

Valle:

I was very young,

so I didn't really understand

what was going on.

My memories of them

involve a lot of arguments,

unfortunately.

Weren't many happy times.

Liz:

His dad was very possessive,

controlling,

and verbally abusive.

I didn't want my son

to grow up thinking

that that's how

you treat a woman.

I mean is he going to

talk about it?

Is he going to admit that,

"Yes, that's what

made me do it?"

Or "The devil made

me do it?"

No. Just kidding.

Valle:

People try to explain

why this happened,

I try and explain it,

and it's tough sometimes.

I guess the most

important thing I got

out of these chats,

if there's anything

I got out of it all

was just acceptance.

This is the first time

I'm really opening up

about all kinds

of freaky stuff.

You know, cannibalism

and bondage.

All these years

it's all bottled up

and here I had my chance

to finally talk

to somebody about it.

It was such a relief

to get it off my chest.

When you're typing it,

you don't really

think about it.

You're just sort of

in the moment.

But as soon as

the computer went off,

it's over.

You know,

I'm the person who I am.

I'm incapable

of any violence.

I couldn't hurt a fly.

Kolker:

Something that the defense

really has to reckon with

is even if he's innocent

of planning a kidnapping,

he's still admittedly

very interested in kidnapping.

He's on the record

talking about it all the time.

He can't get

it out of his mind.

How do you prove

that he would never do

this in the future?

In the ramp-up

to the trial,

they were concerned

that this might break down

into a he said,

she said kind of case,

where the defense would say,

"He's harmless."

And the prosecution

would say, "He's harmful."

And what they really wanted

was the voice of God

to come down

from on high and say,

"I've looked at the guy

and he's as nice

as you and me."

And that's what they got

with Park Dietz.

He is a titan in the field.

He's interviewed

John Hinckley, Jr.,

He's interviewed

Joel Rifkin.

He's interviewed

Andrea Yates.

And almost without exception,

he works for the prosecution.

That he would draw

the conclusion he drew,

which is that this guy's

as safe as you and me.

That's a huge deal.

But then, when the trial

actually happened,

they decided not

to bring him on the stand.

Man:

Were Dr. Dietz to have

actually testified

that deviant sexual fantasy

doesn't relate at all

to those who

sadistically rape

and who

sadistically murder,

he would've been slaughtered

on cross-examination.

Dr. Dietz himself has written

about how people

with sexually violent

intentions...

not just fantasies,

but offenders to-be,

may seek out

law enforcement positions

because of their ability

to more easily access prey.

But the defense suggests

that Officer Valle

was indulging

in these cannibalistic

chats and websites

because he was coping?

So let me get this right.

This kind of behavior

is coping?

You show me

one sex offender

treatment program

that tells people

go on the Internet

and cope with your deviant

sexual arousal

by just engaging with chats

about cannibalism, people.

Just... boy,

what a therapeutic remedy.

Woman:

A psychiatrist that was

retained by the defense

said that looking

at these websites

was a way to cope

with those urges.

In your experience

have you heard

of anything like this?

Uh, no.

I have not heard

of anything like that.

I don't know

that I would say

that looking

at those websites

is a way to cope with

or manage those urges.

I would personally

not prescribe

that to a patient and say,

"Well, if you're having

these violent fantasies,

just look at websites online

and that'll help quell

those thoughts and urges."

In fact, I would

wonder whether it would

excite those urges.

If you exercise

certain neural-pathways,

what happens is there's

a certain reward circuitry

that gets activated

in the brain,

and when you reach

a certain threshold,

it becomes a habitual

or compulsive pattern.

And the pathways

to the prefrontal cortex

that are responsible

for judgment and reasoning

and making good decisions

shut down simultaneously.

So you have a combination

of elevated,

pleasurable stimuli

in the brain

with poor judgment,

and that's kind of

a perfect storm for problems.

What is the

capacity of people

who are otherwise strangers,

just connected by chat room

or Internet connection,

to influence someone

into crime from fantasy?

Some fantasies

remain fantasies.

Some fantasies graduate.

The website or

the chat or the activity

is no longer interesting

to them in the same way.

But acting on it

would be.

Greenfield:

The connection between

fantasy online

and subsequent acting out

is impossible to predict.

You can't just assume

that fantasy means

that they will enact

a behavior,

but you can't also assume

that they will not.

And I will be the first

to tell you,

in psychology and psychiatry,

we are not good at predicting

violent behavior.

Valle:

"The highly unusual facts

of this case

reflect the Internet age

in which we live.

Valle had discussed kidnapping,

torturing, raping,

murdering, cannibalizing women

with 24 individuals.

At trial,

the government conceded

that 21 of these

communications

are nothing more

than fantasy role-play.

The government

nonetheless contends

that Valle's communications

with Van Hise, AliKhan,

and Moody Blues reflect a real

kidnapping conspiracy.

Because the government did not

offer sufficient evidence

to permit a reasonable juror

to distinguish between

Valle's alleged real chats

and his conceived fantasy chats,

"the jury's verdict

on count one cannot stand."

I like when he says...

when he ends with that.

The jury's

verdict cannot stand.

Must not stand.

I just hope the government

doesn't appeal this

and this is officially over,

you know?

Right now we have that

looming over our heads.

Until this thing comes off,

it's not over.

You know?

Go to the beach. Right?

Make my cross-country trip.

Yeah, those'll be good times

when it happens.

Man:

Gil. Gil.

Okay.

Dada, Dada.

Welner:

Perhaps the most significant

aspect of this story

is that Valle's sexuality

was hidden.

If one has to wall off

an entire aspect

of what turns them on,

then one has a fundamentally

dishonest relationship

with their partner.

And when you have

a dishonest relationship

with your partner,

you may be able

to maintain appearances,

but the story

is never going to end well.

Kathleen Valle:

He always said that

because he got home late

he couldn't go

right to sleep,

so he would play video games,

watch TV,

go on the Internet

for a couple of hours.

Then after I got pregnant,

it kept getting worse.

He would stay up until 3,

4, 5 in the morning

or just not come to sleep

in our bed.

And then all

this really weird stuff

started happening.

She had installed spyware

on the computer,

and, you know,

she found the chats,

everything that

this case is about.

She found it all.

Kathleen:

It logged every keystroke

that is made

on the computer,

and every website

that is visited,

and takes pictures

every five minutes or so

of whatever's happening on

the computer screen.

There were all

of these websites

that I'd never seen.

Dark Fetish Net,

Sexy Amazons,

Dark Fet,

Motherless, Fet Life.

I mean, I know S&M

is kind of popular,

like "50 Shades of Grey",

you know?

But this seemed different.

The girl on the front page

was dead.

I noticed on one

of the screen pictures

that was taken

an email address

that I didn't know about.

So I went to Yahoo! Mail

and entered the password

that Gil had told me

to use for everything.

All of a sudden

I was staring at pictures

of my friends.

Pictures of people

we knew.

There were thousands.

She confronted me

that morning

and left with the baby.

I didn't really know

what she was planning on doing

or how long she was

planning on staying.

We did stay in touch

throughout.

Welner:

Partners may question

themselves and say,

"Well, why didn't

I see this before?"

But we've had

an unexpected proximity

to a side that

he doesn't show to others,

wouldn't even

show to his wife.

Kathleen:

I was going to be tied up

by my feet,

and my throat slit.

They would have fun watching

the blood gush out of me.

Over and over again,

just kept saying that

the suffering

was for his enjoyment.

That he wanted to make it last

as long as possible.

That he had no remorse.

Valle:

It was tough

to listen to her,

you know, talk about

our relationship.

We were together

for three years,

I thought they were

three wonderful years.

Yeah, I would

do this at night,

but it didn't affect

my personal life at all.

It didn't affect my job.

It didn't affect my family.

Um...

I was still

the good husband.

I was still

the good father.

I was still

doing great at work.

Welner:

It's hard to say

what to do

with the input

of a law enforcement officer

who's an accused

sex offender.

Every person charged

with crime will deny,

rationalize, and distort

facts and details,

in order to make

his behavior acceptable.

"I'm doing this

on the Internet,

but you know I'm doing it

because my wife

is sleeping with our newborn."

"Oh, I get it. "

"He gets it."

As far as sleeping,

I started talking

to this guy from England.

So, it was as simple

and banal as that...

the time difference.

So I would start

chatting with him.

Over there

it's 8 in the morning.

Over here it's 2:00.

Normally,

I'd be done by then,

but now I'm playing a game

with this guy,

and, you know,

so I'd stay up

a little later.

And that's all it was.

Valle:

Isn't that amazing?

And it's the truth?

The day she puts

the spyware on

is the day I...

I'm like,

I'm moving on from this.

Because like I said before,

um, it was starting

to affect my family life

in that I was

staying up later.

And I didn't want...

I always said

once it starts...

if it ever affects

my family,

"it's got to go."

So it had to go.

And that day...

if I'd done it a day sooner,

none of this

would've happened.

Isn't that incredible?

I told that to my lawyers

and Dietz, and, you know,

I'm not making that up.

That's the God-honest truth,

on my daughter's life.

I went on that day

to delete everything.

It's almost like

there's a higher power

who said that

this had to happen,

and maybe one day

we'll know why.

You know, I honestly

don't know about this guy.

I mean, this guy...

I mean, I think the fact

that they got him off

on that defense

is pretty lucky for him.

It's pretty unusual

to have that kind of level

of violent thought

and fantasy

and to get off

on the defense...

I would not be shocked

if he ends up back in jail.

It disturbs me

that Mr. Valle is out.

You know,

do I worry for harm?

Not really. Um...

But, you know,

he's a disturbed man.

We as the jury

were confident

that from what we had,

what we were given,

we made the best

decision we could.

And when it was overturned

by the judge,

I felt betrayed.

It was a very

difficult decision.

We were not in agreement

from the very beginning.

Some felt more strongly

that he was guilty.

Others needed

much more proof.

Ultimately, the weight of it

was that this decision

was going to

ruin this man's life.

When the trial ended

and the judge

read the charges,

before we even talked

about anything,

we wanted everyone to understand

what the charges were,

and what needed

to be satisfied

in order to convict.

Illegal use of

his police database...

the entire jury agreed

that he was guilty

immediately.

And it was just

the conspiracy charge

that we really needed

to take our time with.

We dissected the chats

that he had

with various people.

And this particular

line of chats

with Moody Blues

was very different

from the others.

We collectively

as a jury felt the tone

had changed.

We read them over and over

and over again.

And even the people reading them

had to stop at some point

because it...

we just couldn't take it.

It was very, very hard.

He was taking the steps

to take it

to that next level...

to make his fantasy

become real.

How long does one wait

till one goes through with it?

The trip to Maryland

was planned to meet

this college friend,

and he was bringing

his wife and his daughter

along on this trip.

The defense maintained

that this was just a trip

to visit a friend.

But his chats

with Moody Blues

indicated that

he couldn't wait

to go see her,

that he couldn't wait

to think about what he was

going to do to her,

and also find out

where she worked,

and get some

more background

information.

It was proven

that he did drive by

her office,

because he had

texted to her about,

"Was that your building?"

Apparently the building

has some significance

on this road.

He did meet her

for brunch with his wife

and his daughter.

And all seemed normal,

just friends getting together

and talking,

and her meeting his wife

and his daughter.

A normal person

in real life comes back

from a road trip,

they've been driving,

they've been

with their family

and their baby,

and they come home,

and they unpack,

and they relax,

and they figure out

what they're gonna

do for dinner.

Based on the timeline,

this man went straight

to his computer

and straight to

his friend to chat,

almost like he was

reporting in.

And you could tell

he was excited about it.

The fact that

he came back from this trip

and one of first things he did

was write to Moody Blues

was enough to say that

he had made this trip,

he had a purpose

for this trip,

he satisfied that purpose,

and he shared

it with his conspirator.

And that, I think, ultimately

led to his downfall.

You know, we sort

of expected this.

I mean, we felt good,

maybe they wouldn't,

but this just buys

them more time.

Liz:

That looks delish.

You know, I gave myself

a couple hours just to be down,

but, you know,

if I'm down they win.

So I don't want to

let them win.

I don't want

to let them win

anything, you know?

Even in jail, I said

that all the time.

Like, if I'm down,

the government's winning.

Oh, that's a lot.

- Okay.

- I always overdo things.

I guess Mom can get used

to having me at home.

I can get used to this.

Real quick.

( laughs )

I'm gonna be stuck in here

for how many more months?

You know,

I was looking at possibly

going out this weekend.

I mean,

I thought it was over,

and it's not over.

It doesn't mean

they're gonna go through

with it, don't forget.

They're smart people.

They have to know I'm innocent.

They have to know

there's no evidence.

They have

to know they screwed up.

Maybe they're thinking,

"How would it look

if we just dropped it?"

In a sense they

had to go through with this

just to save face.

You know,

what are they gonna do,

B.S. the court of appeals

now in paperwork?

They can B.S. a jury.

They can't B.S. judges.

Dershowitz:

My father always taught me

to defend the underdog.

And the underdog's always

the person who is on trial

with all the resources

of the state,

the police,

the prosecution,

being used

against that person.

I think juries have

often been unwilling

to apply the presumption

of innocence.

When I have a jury,

the first question I ask is,

"If the evidence shows that

the defendant probably did it,

will you convict?"

And many of the jurors say,

"Of course, we will."

I say, "Strike that juror."

"Probably" isn't enough.

You have to be willing

to free somebody

who will probably

do something bad

and who has probably

done something bad.

"Probably" just isn't enough.

Better 10 guilty go free

than one innocent

be wrongly confined.

We just can't allow

our system

to begin to err on the side

of putting people in jail

if they might not

commit crimes.

Valle:

They said that the line

between fantasy

and reality crossed

when he had lunch

with the girl in Maryland.

So that makes

it seem like, shit,

when Gil had the lunch

with this girl,

you know,

maybe he was thinking

about something.

As far as coinciding

with the chat,

I knew, like, yeah,

I had the chat,

but, you know,

I was with my wife

and daughter,

nothing ever

happened at the brunch.

They made the whole

weekend out to be

a surveillance episode.

I went down Friday night.

I'd seen... I saw five

people that weekend.

We did things,

Kathleen, as a family

down in Maryland,

and the whole weekend

was about surveillance.

I mean, it's just...

Right.

Kolker:

When the prosecution makes

a big deal of him

using this computer

to look up information

about these women,

yes, it's a violation,

and, yes, it's a crime.

But looking at

the timeline between

when he actually

did those searches

and when he was having chats

about those women

with other people on

the Dark Fetish Network?

It's not exactly clear

that he's planning anything.

They might've had

more of a case

if he'd looked up

that information

and then five minutes later

there's a record

of him emailing

somebody from

the Dark Fetish Network

saying,

"Here's the address."

But he didn't

even give anybody

on the Dark Fetish Network

their addresses.

He didn't even give them

their last names.

There's one potentially

very telling moment

in the chats,

where Moody Blues says,

"What's her address?"

And Gil says,

"I can't do that.

I can't give you that."

Suddenly the bubble bursts.

This is Gil googling someone

he has the hots for.

Only instead of Google

he's using the police computer.

Because he's at work,

and bored, and says,

"Oh, I have

the hots for Kimberly.

I'm going to check out

the information

in the police database

for her."

And so he does.

And that's sick

and creepy and weird,

but is this the action

of a guy

who's planning

and conspiring a kidnapping?

The prosecution

had to convince a jury

beyond a reasonable doubt,

the highest standard

in the law,

he actually was agreeing

to commit the crime

of kidnapping women,

and here in this case,

I don't think they did.

There might be a tendency

to want to punish people

for who we think they are

as opposed to what

they've actually done.

And so this could be a case

where the jury

heard the evidence

and thought,

"I don't maybe

think he was gonna

do it this time,"

but I'm worried he might

do it in the future,

I'm worried about

what kind of person he is.

I don't like this guy.

I think he's creepy.

And so the, you know,

way they resolve that tension

is to convict.

Well, we were

convicting someone

on what he wanted to do,

not what he did.

So we had to believe

that he was going in

that direction

to actually commit

a crime.

It's easier

to make a decision

when you have fact,

beyond a shadow of a doubt,

reasonable doubt.

And there was not anything

that was fully and

completely compelling.

We had to understand this man

through these chats.

When the police

got this information,

absolutely,

they were right

to act on it.

No one in their right mind,

I think,

would suggest when the...

his wife came and said,

"Look what I have...

these disturbing chats,

and my husband, by the way,

is a police officer

with some power,"

that they should've said,

"Go home, ma'am.

No big deal." Right?

What should

they have done?

They should've initiated

an investigation.

It could have been as simple

as an undercover agent

and trying to engage him

and make real plans.

Kolker:

Since Gil's conviction

and since it's been

tossed out,

there's been movement

on other cases

related to

the Dark Fetish Network

where the feds

took the extra step

of creating

a sting operation.

And there've been people

who've been convicted

after they met with agents

to plan a kidnapping.

Engber:

One of them, Asch,

actually went so far

as to create a kit.

He started collecting items

that one might use

in a real abduction

and torture scenario.

He had needles

and handcuffs

and speculums.

He even went and

he bought a stun gun.

You can see that

they took this so much farther

than than Gil did.

It makes you realize

that there is this whole...

so many steps

before you get to actually

lunging out of a car

at someone

and trying to hurt them.

Some very reasonable people

could come

to the conclusion

that unless and until

he's in a car with the rope

and the chloroform

headed to wherever

victim three lives,

it's not enough.

Some reasonable people

could also say

even that's not enough.

It's not enough until

he gets to the doorstep

and actually starts

walking up the steps

and is about to hit

the doorbell and say,

"Hi, it's Gilberto.

Can I come up?"

And some people

would probably even quite

reasonably conclude

that we really don't know

what he's going to do

in that apartment.

Rowland:

There is always

reasonable doubt

about whether or not

someone is going to take

a particular action.

We don't know, right?

And police officers don't have

some magical psychic wand

that allows them

to know, either.

We don't want to give

the government the ability

to decide

what fantasies meet

the thought police's bar

for acceptability.

That bar is rightly high.

Look, if the

first amendment protects

someone fantasizing

about violently raping,

and killing,

and eating a woman,

it's gonna protect

pretty much anything

you're thinking about.

And that's what

principles mean.

They make us uncomfortable,

and we apply them regardless.

We're going down

to court

for my sentencing

for the misdemeanor.

The big news out of today

will be whether or not

this house arrest is over.

Number two,

is the government

going to go through

with their appeal?

( shutters clicking )

Kolker:

The interesting thing

about what's happening

with Gil now

is that he no longer

is just the Cannibal Cop,

he's patient zero in

the thought police epidemic

that might sweep the nation.

We're all determined

to try and stop

horrible tragedies

before they actually happen.

And we feel like

we can do it.

That all we have to do

in the future

is monitor

the right things

and set up enough cameras

and do enough

computer surveillance.

To me that is

an extraordinary assumption

to be making.

Good morning.

Murphy: If we had an MRI

that could read your mind,

would we want to

comb through society

and find the true

deviants among us

who think

these deviant thoughts

and really mean

to execute them

or would execute them

in a perfect environment?

Certainly in

science fiction,

like "Minority Report"

where they talk about

pre-crime,

that's a dystopic vision.

And I think that's because

when you think about it,

it's often hard

for any individual person

to even know themselves

the line between

what they're imagining

and what's real.

It's part of the mystery

of humanity.

Valle: You know there's

been a lot said about me,

when these

allegations came out,

and, you know,

that's not who I really am.

That's never...

people who know me

the best know that,

and I'm ready to show people

who I really am. That's it.

Can you give us some idea

what got you involved

in these issues

in the first place?

- No.

- I'm not gonna comment

on that right now.

Kolker:

One of the most troubling

gray areas of this case

is that most of us

don't understand

why someone would act

on an impulse like this.

I don't think the jurors,

I don't think the media,

I don't think many

people at all

could really

look into his heart

and really understand

Gil as a person.

Is he a harmless

teddy bear of a guy?

Or is he a nefarious

master criminal?

I really don't know.

Look at this beautiful thing

right here. Bare skin.

( woman reading text )

( woman continues )

What makes somebody

an ethical human being

isn't what they think,

but what they choose to do

with the thoughts.

Somebody can be having

the most dark,

depraved thoughts,

but if they don't

do anything about them

or find outlet that is

entirely harmless,

then that doesn't stop them

being a decent human being.

And in the gap between

thought and action,

that's where people

actually discover

what kind of human

being they are.

And I think people

have to be allowed

to make that discovery

and then live

with the consequences.

There's no news yet

with the appeal.

They haven't

submitted anything yet.

Today's the deadline.

So I guess they have

until 11:59.

They'll probably

wait until 11:50.

Bye.

They're gonna appeal.

I mean...

I don't want to

get my hopes up,

but they didn't

mention it in court.

I don't know.

They haven't filed it yet,

but I don't want

to get my hopes up.

It's already been

such a good day.

This really could be

over tonight.

Completely.

They have until midnight,

so we're waiting

until midnight.

Then that's it.

They never asked

for more time.

And, you know,

the thing better

be dismissed.

Nothing we see yet.

Tick tock, tick tock.

Let's go midnight.

Come on.

What an ending it

would be, you know,

if today it would all end.

You know, the supervision

I'm not worried about.

It's not like

I'm gonna go out

and commit a crime

or anything like that.

I have no desire,

not the slightest inkling

to get back on

any fetish website.

Those days are gone.

I don't know.

Nothing will be hanging

over my head anymore.

I fell asleep and I woke up.

It's after 12.

I'm like,

"It's quiet down there."

My heart starts racing.

Valle:

That's concerning...

this is concerning me.

I don't know what this is.

I'm on something called

"Cases Selection Table",

and we're on

the second circuit for sure.

Yeah, I see it.

Yep.

All right. Bye.

They filed it around 7:30.

- Really?

- Yeah.

We were looking at

the wrong thing.

I was expecting that.

This is the same arguments,

you know?

That I conducted

surveillance.

- Oh, dear God.

- Yeah.

So they really want

to make assholes

out of themselves.

I attempted

to establish trust.

It's laughable.

I'm not worried.

Don't worry about it.

Today was enough

of a good day.

I'm not worried

about at all.

All right.

I'll stop by tomorrow,

all right?

All right.

All right, see you.

All right.

Let's hope my cell phone

is not 700 yards

from somebody

I knew in high school.

Everything sort of

overwhelms me sometimes.

With the appeal coming,

and the notoriety that's

now surrounding my life...

sometimes I feel like

someone's watching me.

But the first couple

weeks I was out,

I realized

that no one was really

recognizing me.

So I started

getting more and more

comfortable going out.

And then,

I thought the next step

was to get to dating again.

It's been a long time,

you know?

I think, sometimes

I'm craving a little...

you know, I'm craving

some companionship.

There's nothing wrong

with that.

If I do go, you know,

out with a girl,

at what point

in the dating process

do I bring this

whole thing up?

She either would be,

you know, run for the hills,

or she'd be somewhat curious,

interested.

I don't know.

There have to be

people out there

who are interested.

But some people

are gonna think

I should be locked up

for the rest of my life,

there's no getting

around that.

I made a bad mistake.

A really bad mistake.

But, you know,

it's not gonna cost me

the rest of my life.

( music playing )

Reporter:

Gilberto Valle,

known as the "Cannibal Cop,"

Man:

What's he list under

some of his...

Man #2:

This is even better.

Man:

Under some of his likes?

Cooking is one

of his likes!

Woman:

I love that he said

that he drinks an abnormal

amount of coffee,

like that's a real turn-on.

That strategy

is admitting a flaw

that's harmless.

You don't say

"I like to eat dead women."

You say, "Eh,

I drink too much coffee."

- Then you think,

"Oh, he's honest!"

- And he cares too much.

And he cares too much.

"I care too much."

"I love pets."

Woman: I mean,

this was really a bad guy.

I don't want to be a buzzkill,

but, you know, ew.

I have no idea.

♪ And, baby,

you'd better believe ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in

the New York groove ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in

the New York groove ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in

the New York groove ♪

♪ Back ♪

♪ In the New York groove ♪

♪ In the New York groove ♪

♪ In the back

of my Cadillac ♪

♪ A wicked lady

sitting by my side ♪

♪ Saying,

"Where are we?"♪

♪ Stop at 3rd and 43 ♪

♪ Exit to the night ♪

♪ It's gonna be ecstasy ♪

♪ This place

was meant for me ♪

- ♪ Ooh ♪

- ♪ Feels so good

tonight ♪

- ♪ Ooh ♪

- ♪ Who cares about

tomorrow? ♪

♪ So, baby,

you'd better believe ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in

the New York groove ♪

♪ New York groove ♪

- ♪ I'm back ♪

- ♪ New York ♪

♪ Back in

the New York groove ♪

♪ New York groove ♪

- ♪ I'm back ♪

- ♪ New York ♪

♪ Back in

the New York groove ♪

♪ New York groove ♪

♪ Back ♪

♪ In the New York

groove ♪

♪ In the New York

groove. ♪