The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl (1993) - full transcript

We are in the presence of

a legend with many faces

loathed by many,

admired deeply by others.

Her name is still taboo in Germany.

Leni Riefenstahl, the most influential

filmmaker of the Third Reich,

the last great surviving

image maker of the Nazis.

A film about Leni Riefenstahl,

can content itself

with updating the old prejudices.

Or it can attempt to deconstruct

her myth, and to look at it afresh

A feminist pioneer or a woman of evil.

One thing is certain,

she is still

the most famous female

film director in the world.

This film will approach her

without preconceptions.

What do you feel,

looking at those pictures?

Well, really as if the person

in this picture is not me...

...but just some actress

This innocence, enthusiasm...

...then the fall from fame,

the great disappointment...

...how do you see all that today?

It's all so long ago now,

I've long since got over it

I don't think about it anymore

At my age...

...I'll be 90 this year...

...many decades have now gone by.

They were bad times

It's like another world

but no longer live in that past

Guest Dance Performance

An Evening of Dance

I really only wanted to go on stage

as an experiment

To see whether I would make

a good dancer

But I had such a huge success, I was

immediately engaged by Max Reinhardt

Then Prague wanted me, and Zurich.

It was incredible, intoxicating

It was incredible

This station here at Nollendorfplatz

totally changed my life

I was standing here

waiting for a train

I had to go to the doctor. I had hurt

my knee badly and couldn't dance

I was impatient because the train

was late

But, as it drew in, I suddenly saw

a poster for a film...

...'Mountain of Destiny'

It showed a mountaineer

stepping across a chasm

I was so fascinated I missed

the train

I stood rooted to the spot

I read: 'Mountain of Destiny'

Mozartsaal Cinema, Nollendorfplatz

It was right here. I forgot

the doctor and everything else...

...and went to the cinema

'Mountain of Destiny'

directed by Arnold Fanck

was the first feature film

in the history of cinema

to set its drama high in the mountains.

When she saw it, the film

was to change Riefenstahl's life.

Frank had invented an

evocative new genre

the mountain film.

It was a totally new kind of film

The first mountaineering film

The first with sequences so filled

with movement

The clouds were alive with movement.

We'd never seen that before

Fanck was breaking new ground

His use of slow motion, lighting,

the composition of his shots...

It was all artistic

and way ahead of its time

I didn't know much about film but

realised I was looking...

...at a very special art-form

on the screen for the first time

Riefenstahl immediately

set off in search of Fanck,

and quite by chance

met his leading actor

Luis Trenker in a hotel in the Dolomites

She came up and said she wanted

to star opposite me in my next film

She's crazy, I thought. Then she

gave me a lovely photo of herself

I sent it to Fanck and wrote:

Dear Fanck, this woman is beautiful

She's determined to be in your

next film, starring opposite me

It's all a fantasy...

...but I enclose her photo.

Do what you like with it

Fanck was smitten,

and was so fascinated by her

that he asked her to play

the starring role in his next film

I'd hurt my knee seriously

while dancing

So I sent Fanck my photos

and the rave reviews

Presumably because of the pictures

and reviews...

..he visited me in hospital

To my amazement he handed me

a script on which was written:

"'The Sacred Mountain' written in 3 days

and nights for Leni Riefenstahl"

Then Fanck wrote to me:

You're the one who's crazy.

She'll be Germany's greatest star

She's going to be your leading lady

so see you get on with her

The script said I had to be buried

by an avalanche

We were quite mad to do it

I can show you the spot

or as near as makes no difference

Up there

We stood on a rock-face like that

Maybe even steeper

I had to cling...

...onto a rock with my hands...

...until the avalanche came down

Not just once but two or three times

People today say it was madness,

but Fanck demanded our all

This is where I did

my first directing

Since the last time we filmed here...

...sixty-six years have gone by

I will never forget this scene

It wasn't only my first time

as director...

...it was the first time

I had to wind a camera

In those days there were

no electric cameras

It would all have gone wonderfully

but there was an accident

The moment I began

turning the handle to shoot...

...there was a terrible bang

as a torch exploded

The boy holding it was behind me.

There was a sheet of flame

My face was burnt

...but I went on filming

I could feel the pain...

...but I finished the shot

And when I'd finished

I looked in the mirror

My face was black

Then I heard a little boy had also

nearly been burnt...

...but they rescued him

In the Berlin of the early 1920s,

war profiteers and

black market millionaires

flaunted their wealth

But, for most of the people,

life was wretched

Many was starving

Soup kitchens and food queues

were a common sight on the streets

Social unrest was rife.

Berlin, 60 years later

For this film, Leni Riefenstahl and her

companion of many years, Horst Kettner

visit the legendary

UFA Filmstudios in Babelsberg

This is where all the

classic German silent film were made

The camera follows you...

...and you tell us how you first

came to the studios

- As I'm walking along?

- Yes, is that a problem?

- I can't speak when I'm walking

- Couldn't you walk a bit?

No, I've never done that in my life

I've never talked while I'm walking

I'm not a ghost

Just try it

I'm just saying I can't talk

while I'm walking

Even when I dream, I lie down or sit.

I can't talk and walk

No one told me...

You won't listen, will you?

I did listen

I'll ask you a question

roughly like this

You'll answer while we pull back

slowly

But you can't walk backwards.

I'd have to speak like this

But I'm here

How did the studio atmosphere

strike you?

It was very impressive

Three big films were being made here

Fritz Lang's 'Metropolis',

with Brigitte Helm

Murnau's 'Faust' with Camilla Horn

and our film 'The Sacred Mountain'

Admittedly, we were in a small studio

But here in this studio, where I

later shot scenes for 'Tiefland'...

they'd built some fantastic sets

They were hundreds of extras

Did you meet any famous directors?

I never met Lang...

...but Fanck wanted me to go for the

part of Gretchen in Murnau's 'Faust'

I got hold of a long blonde wig

Fanck was convinced

Murnau would hire me

Muranu was interested

I was on the short-list

but Camilla was his final choice

Leni Riefenstahl never

became star tied to the studio

From her first film,

she was drawn over and over again

away from Berlin, into the mountains

This was my favorite area

There's hardly a rock-face or peak

I haven't climbed

See how steep it is?

To the left of that ridge, there's

a sheer drop of over 2,000 ft

Wonderful!

For these mountain films,

the actress from Berlin

had to learn to ski and rock climb

and quickly became a skilled mountaineer

She even climbed without ropes

and in bare feet for the cameras

In those days, mountain climbing was

strenuous activity practiced exclusively by men

But Riefenstahl never had any

difficulty asserting herself

Later on, she would become

the only woman

to play a significant role

in the rise of National Socialism

You can only get a general shot

of the mountains behind me

The camera must be on me...

...or it won't work

If you want me to talk about

climbing, I must face the rocks...

But we're too far away...

No, while I'm talking, you can film

the rock-face with the telephoto

You can edit that in

- The mountains will be too small

- But we need a general shot

Yes, but not like that

You must find a cinematic solution

The mountains make no impression

You can only do it in the cutting,

never with a camera-angle

Don't tell me you want

a Hitler-salute

Over there is the famous east face

We had to bivouac a rope's length

below the summit

Way down, I could see lights

in the huts below

I suppose I didn't realise...

It was fascinating because

you forgot everything

All your worries and problems...

you just concentrated on not falling

It's a sport...

...which involves the whole body

It gives you a feeling of freedom,

being so close...

...to the rocks, to nature,

and the mountains

When you reach the top...

...there's such a feeling of

bliss...

...you just want to experience it

as often as possible

For the best of Arnold Fanck's

mountain films,

Riefenstahl persuaded the director

to hire the famous stunt-flier Udet

And to bring in his co-director, one of the

great names in German Cinema, W.G. Pabst

Yes, Fanck was so wonderful

outdoor director for filming nature

Pabst was a fabulous

feature-film director

I brought the two together

and it worked wonderfully

That's the reason why 'Pizpalü'

was such a success worldwide

These shots are from a home movie,

filmed by a member of the crew

on Morteratsch Glacier in St. Moritz

When Pabst told me to look right...

...I looked left.

When he said left, I looked right

So he said, "You're not the director.

Stop looking from the camera's angle"

He was the first to make me see..

...I'd a talent for directing

An entire rock-face was

iced over to create the illusion

that the glacier had

moved into the valley

Working with Fanck was always

a mental and a physical challenge

We were on an ice-wall in 'Pizpalü'

It was minus 28 degrees

The Engadine hadn't been so cold

for 50 years

We were working at night and the

wind-machine blew snow in my face

- He might lose consciousness

- Tie hum tight or he'll fall

Pabst was quite different from Fanck

Fanck gave very few directions.

We had to more or less improvise

But Pabst knew exactly

what he wanted

Without acting out the part for us,

he put the actor...

...in the mental state he wanted,

which is very important

You forgot the camera and became

the character you were portraying

Maria, the rope!

While filming with Arnold Fanck,

Riefenstahl and Luis Trenker

were themselves learning how to direct

Fanck was a perfectionist,

a stickler for details

Even when his actors were

being tested to the limit

Oh, I'd rather not think about that

It wasn't just bad, it was awful

Fanck's plan was to have me hauled

up and let an avalanche drop on me

I said, "Count me out.

It's out of the question"

So he said, "Leni darling,

it won't be a real avalanche"

"We'll just drop a bit of snow

on you"

He was very persuasive and promised

extra money

I agreed and was tied up with rope

The camera crew were up above,

and off we went

I'd only gone 10 feet...

...when a real avalanche

enveloped me

I screamed, my ears and eyes hurt

Fanck kept the camera rolling

on and on

Then they pulled me in

For weeks I was black and blue

all over. I really hated Fanck

In 1920s Berlin, the National Socialists

were parading through the streets

And the young fanatic

named Goebbels

was gaining notoriety with

his inflammatory speeches

As the struggle for power

raged between the rival parties

the Babelsberg studios decided

to try and take on Hollywood

In the studio,

now named Marlene Dietrich Hall

Riefenstahl furthered her education

when she met Josef von Sternberg

Von Sternberg brought me

to the studio every day...

...until it got too much for Marlene

I liked her a lot, I idolised her.

She was exceptional but very jealous

One day we had quite a row

in the studio, She started it

There was this famous scene

where she sits on a barrel...

...and sings 'Falling in Love Again'

She starting behaving very crudely...

...to try and make me leave

in disgust

Sternberg noticed and stepped in...

...but she said she'd leave the film

if I came to the studio again

He said to me, "Leni, you're

the complete opposite of Marlene

"You're both very special

but quite different

"I've shaped Marlene...

"...into this wonderful creation...

"...and I'll do the same for you

"You haven't been discovered yet"

I really regret the fact that, when

he offered me work in Hollywood...

...I was unable to go

I was deeply involved with a man

at the time...

...and didn't want to leave him

I have that to thank...

...or to regret

for my not going to Hollywood

When Von Sternberg later saw

Riefenstahl's own first film,

he was able to make a more

precise judgment about her

Yes, he'd seen me in

'The Blue Light'...

...where I played the role of

Junta...

...an innocent, naive

child of nature...

...who is intentionally asexual...

...whereas Marlene was the sexy type,

erotic, a sort of sphinx...

...a star, an elegant super-star

He thought I was the absolute

opposite of Marlene

I think that was probably true

While Riefenstahl made films for Hitler,

Dietrich chose to emigrate

In his memoirs, Von Sternberg makes

no reference to Riefenstahl

In the streets of Berlin,

Nazis were still struggling to win elections

Hitler, waiting in the wings

was certainly ready, but, was Germany?

We Germans wanted a Führer...

...and we got one, right?

We Germans are all like that,

we want a Führer

And what happens?

This ghastly Hitler comes along...

...and everyone says,

"Wonderful, here's a real Führer

"Someone to tell us what to do"

There's something

in what Marlene says

For us, at school and at home...

...discipline came first.

She's right there

Germans would be very

enamored of someone...

...they thought they could

model themselves on

They're happy to let themselves

be led, that's for sure

While the Germans rallied around their

new Führer in ever increasing numbers,

Riefenstahl set off again for the mountains

In the south Tirol,

she made her first film

a romantic fairy-tale, which

she produced, directed and starred

This rocky peak in the

Brenta Massif of the south Tirol

is transformed by Leni Riefenstahl's

camera into a mysterious presence

mythical and Wagnerian

The girl holding the crystal

is an outcast, a witch

The crystal or crystals...

...are in fact the symbolic theme

of 'The Blue Light'

Junta...

...who is a wild, innocent

mountain girl...

...was fascinated by the light

in this grotto

In the mountains was a crystal grotto

which only Junta knew about

It was only visible...

...by the blue light of a full moon

shining through a crack

Then it was a shimmer of blue

Symbolic...

...of the ideal one always dreams of

but never attains

That's the film's theme

Why did you choose a fairy-tale

for your first film?

I suppose because Dr. Fanck's films...

...although realistic, were set

in fairy-tale landscapes

I found that a conflict of styles

Fairy-tale landscapes and realistic

action didn't work together for me

But since I also loved beautiful,

fairy-tale, picturesque landscape...

...I thought it would be better

to fit a fairy-story into it

No one in the film understands how

power of a mysterious mountain

had access to the precious stones

You witch

Go away, you ugly old witch

How beautiful

Before I worked with Fanck,

when I was a dancer...

...I'd written scripts

but no screenplays

Then I met Carl Mayer,

the famous playwright...

...who'd written the material

for Murnau's film...

...and Bela Balazs, who was

the best screen-writer then

They liked my material so much

they gave me some good tips

Balazs even helped me for free

Balazs wrote the dialogue

and I did the visual scenes

It was the ideal collaboration

Here, for instance...

...I drew the waterfall

and the position of the sun

It says here, 7:10 a.m.

Shooting must be finished by 8

I even put the lens to be used:

a 7.5 focal length

It's all noted

You put down every scene

in writing

I fine-tuned every scene through

the camera, worked out the light...

...and tested everything in advance.

It ran like clockwork

We even did a rush of every scene

We made a negative to see whether

we could improve on it

We placed a lot of importance

on picture quality

Riefenstahl was a perfectionist,

and would only settle for the best

For her first film, she ordered

a special lens to be sent over from Hollywood

and asked the labs to develop a

new film stock for the night scenes

I was able to do that because Agfa

made some special film-stock for me

It was later called R-Stock

If you use it with a red filter,

the blue comes out dark, almost black

I could do climbing shots as if they

were at night, without a spotlight

It was an experiment

As Rosselini and De Sica told me,

I was the first...

...to film in real locations,

like a church

We built nothing in the studio

I was given permission to film

in a church...

...while the priests were

conducting a service

The inn scenes were filmed in

Bolzano

In fact all the interior scenes...

...were shot in real locations

for the first time in a feature film

When the film was ready, I showed it

to Agfa, who were the distributors

They didn't like it at all

and I was also disappointed with it

The film did not look

as I'd envisaged it

So I went and showed it to Fanck

And he said, "Come back tomorrow

and we'll improve it

"It has weaknesses and boring bits"

When I went back the next day...

...he'd cut up my copy into hundreds

of pieces and completely re-edited it

I was horrified

His version didn't work either.

All my effort was wasted

Riefenstahl's steely determination

enabled her to conquer

not a new rock-face, but also to

overcome all obstacles in her career

The fight in the editing room

was to prove the first of many

And she always got her way

For several days, I just wept

and then I began to edit it again

And this exercise was

very therapeutic

Although I didn't like Fanck's cut...

...I noticed lots of things

he'd done...

...which I'd never have thought of,

like the inter-cutting of scenes

Fanck had cut too much but I saw

it was wrong not to cut at all

So I took it over and edited it

in a rhythm...

...I felt right for the subject.

I hadn't done that before

If a director shoots a scene

that goes on too long...

...he doesn't always realise

it needs cutting

A particularly important scene was

in the moonlight...

...when the peasants shut their doors

At first I'd edited it - man shuts the door,

next a man shuts door and so on

That was the logical way but Fanck

did it differently

He had one man starting to shut his

door, the next continuing the action

This variety gave more interest

and tension

It was a very special method

which I intuitively understood...

...and which I applied to my subject

I still did things more slowly than

he had, but not as slowly as before

I was learning

Don't close the shutters...

...in this fine weather

It's full moon

Ah, the blue light

I played this girl Junta,

who is a kind of witch

It's as if it were a premonition

of my own life

Junta was loved and hated

It's been the same for me -

I've been loved and hated

Just as Junta lost her ideal...

...through the shattering of

the crystal...

...in the same way I lost my ideals

at the end of that terrible war

To that extent the film was indeed

a premonition of my own destiny

Were you already in contact with

the National Socialists?

I didn't know of their existence.

I hadn't even heard of Hitler

When I was filming 'The Blue Light'

I had no idea

Didn't Hans Jaeger say something

to you about Hitler?

He said to me:

"Are you going to this National

Socialist meeting today?"

I didn't understand so I said

"Why? What about it?"

"Hitler's speaking today in Berlin,

in the Sports Palace", he said

"So what?" I said

Then he said, "I've a feeling...

"...that if you heard him,

it could change your life"

I laughed and asked

"How could it do that?"

So Jaeger, who was an anti-Nazi,

though I didn't know that, said:

"Take my advice and go"

And as I was curious, I went

And indeed it did change my fate

I know, my comrades...

...that it was hard for you when

you thought change must come...

...and it never came

When endless appeals were made

to you that the fight must go on

Calls not to act but to obey

To resist but not to bend under

this monstrous pressure

It was the first time I'd ever seen

a political meeting

I found it immensely impressive and

I was carried away by the atmosphere

Hitler really fascinated me

So I immediately wrote him a letter

I wanted to meet him. I thought:

May be he is the man

who can save Germany

When I asked his adjutant

why I'd received a reply, he said:

"The Führer was thrilled with

your dance by the sea...

"...in 'The Sacred Mountain'"

What was your impression of him?

Interestingly, quite the opposite

of my impression at the Stadium

There he'd seemed a politician...

...trying to enthuse people

Now he seemed a modest,

private individual

You couldn't imagine him

stirring the masses

He seemed very natural,

straightforward, modest and friendly

When I'd seen his face on posters,

I'd thought him decidedly ugly

But when I met him personally,

that all disappeared

You just didn't notice his features

and the mustache

He radiated something very powerful

You forgot all the rest

But as a man he did not interest me

at all

You sensed he had a kind of

demonic power of suggestion?

Yes, at the public meeting...

...and even more strongly

when I met him

He radiated something which had

a kind of hypnotic effect

That frightened me a little

I didn't want to lose my own will

and my freedom

I already felt...

...I had to avoid this atmosphere

at all costs

It would paralyse one's free will

What did you make of

his political programme?

I knew nothing about it...

...and had no time to find out

because I was off to Greenland

She was soon being typecast.

In this big Hollywood production,

Leni Riefenstahl once again plays

the part of the beautiful daredevil

The plucky rescue pilot

in the Arctic

She embodied an ideal which Hitler

was cleverly to exploit

Incidentally, he said then:

"When we come to power,

you must make my films"

I certainly didn't take him

seriously. I said:

"I can only do what I enjoy. I'm

an actress, I want nice parts to play"

It is precisely these roles which

created the image of Riefenstahl

that Hitler so admired,

a heroic superwoman,

the queen of the mountains,

enthroned high among the peaks,

beyond the reach of the masses,

an idol, a myth larger than life

In other words, exactly what

Hitler himself so much wanted to be

but so conspicuously lacked

the artistic tinge to achieve

Then Hitler said, "Well, when

you're older and more mature...

"...maybe you'll understand my ideas"

I was ignorant then

In January 1933, Hitler

became Reich's Chancellor

with immediate consequences

German men and women...

...the age of pettifogging

Jewish intellectualism...

...is at an end

The breakthrough

of the German revolution...

...had cleared the path ahead

for Germany

I consign all that is un-German

to the flames

I consign to the fire

the writings...

...of Heinrich Mann...

...Ernst Glaeser...

{\a8}...and Erich Kästner

As ever, at the crucial time,

Leni Riefenstahl was absent

{\a8}Down with time-servers and political traitors

filming in the Swiss Alps

I heard nothing about the book-burning.

We hadn't television then

I learnt about it on my return...

...and particularly about

friends of mine...

Who had emigrated?

I found their letters in my post

They wrote to me and that really

upset me

And when I was summoned...

...to see Hitler, I immediately

spoke to him about it

His face darkened suddenly

and he said:

"I must ask you, Fräulein,

not to speak to me on this matter"

You did try to raise the subject?

Immediately. It was the first thing

I tried...

...and realised it wasn't possible

He immediately called his adjutant

and had me ushered out

He wouldn't talk to me about it

Clearly, something in Germany

had fundamentally changed

In the brutal boycott of Jewish shops

gave her no cause to doubt

How could she have overlooked

what she saw around her in Germany?

My friends who'd emigrated...

...and Manfred Georg

in particular...

...urged me to stay and

stick it out

By staying, we could prevent

the spread of anti-semitism

We were to be a bulwark against it

And we all thought it was just

electioneering...

...a temporary thing

that would die down

We didn't foresee the danger

Didn't 'Mein Kampf'

open your eyes...

...to Hitler's aims?

It was very interesting

I hadn't read it all -

just a few chapters

Some things in it appealed to me

very much

Everything that dealt with

social problems

I think that was why Hitler had

so many supporters then

Six million unemployed,

the poverty...

Obviously I didn't like

his racial theories

I made notes in the book which later

happened to fall into Hitler's hands

I had written 'good' or 'bad', 'not good'

etc. So I had made my choices

- How did he react to this critique?

- He laughed

{\a8}Ladies and gentlemen

Goebbels' diaries for the year 1933

give the distinct impression that

{\a8}With one bold and magnificent stroke...

Riefenstahl was on good terms socially

with both Hitler and Goebbels

{\a8}...we've put our enemies to flight

What was your relationship with

the Propaganda Minister, Goebbels?

The worst you can ever imagine

We met before they came to power

It was in the lift at the Hotel Kaiserhof.

We were both going up

He pursued me and was determined

to have me

He wanted me as his mistress

and so on

But he was not my type at all

I felt nothing for him

He never forgave me for rejecting

him. Later it became worse

I can say he was almost an enemy

Reading Goebbels' diaries for

1933, we get the impression...

...you were on visiting terms with

him and Hitler

You must show me these entries.

I've never read them

I've never read anything saying I was

on visiting terms. It's sheer fantasy

Saw Leni Riefenstahl this afternoon,

suggested a film about Hitler to her

She was enthusiastic

In the evening to Madam Butterfly

with Magda and Leni

At the start of 1933 I'd never

visited him. He never said I had

Drove back with Hitler in the evening

Later at home, Philipp von Hessen

and Leni Riefenstahl called 'very nice'

I never went there

Nor to Schwanenwerder, where

everyone went

I wasn't even invited. Not once

Saw a film with Hitler starring

Hans Albers, terrible rubbish

Gerda, Maria and Leni Riefenstahl

were there. Three beautiful women

This makes me so angry.

What you say is incredible

Let me show you

That I was on social terms... there's

nothing about that in the diaries...

It's simply not true. Herr Müller

OK, show me where it says I was

in and out of their houses, socially

What to believe? The diaries of Goebbels

or the memories of last surviving witness

Goebbels was a master of the lie

Nuremberg, the imperial castle of the

Holy Roman Emperors, the Kaiserberg

A place special significance for Hitler

In his imagination, Hitler saw himself

in the tradition of the German Emperors

And like them based his ideal of the

Führer on an image of the Roman Caesers

That's why the congresses of the

Nazi party were organized in Nuremberg

Today, very little remains

of the Nazi buildings,

the popular enthusiasm for the big

courage is no longer comprehensible

This is where the great march pasts took place

involving as many as a hundred thousand men

Riefenstahl's film of the 1934 Party Congress

was the turning point in her life

It changed everything

{\a8}38,000 workers on parade for the ceremony

Later Congresses were filmed

by other directors

But they've long been forgotten

The first film was to have been

the one and only

Never two or three.

Just the one Party Congress film

But the first one in 1933

was never completed

We only filmed a few metres

before we were interrupted

The Party didn't want us to make

the film despite Hitler's commission

It was boycotted

Until recently, Riefenstahl's first film

of the Nazi Congresses in Nuremberg,

Victory of Faith, was

thought to have been lost

Many doubted that it was

ever actually been made

Grotesque as it may sound, the Party

who were supposed to make the film...

...didn't want me to make it

But you were involved in the other

film? You brought that up yourself

I know, but it's very hard

to keep them apart

We can cut it out

It's hard to keep it separate

I'm happy to talk about it

but not in this bloody light

Reporting to the Führer

{\a8}100,000 Storm-Troopers, Stahlhelm...

In those days,

Hitler and Ernst Röhm

were still the partners

in the struggle for power

{\a8}...and SS on parade before the Führer

Heil, SA

You talked about the first film

and the second. You can't do that

I have to say what the first film is.

You can't talk about both at once

- You mentioned the second film

- And you the first

- That's the one I want to discuss

- Not me. I hardly did anything on it

With its amateury shots of Hitler,

and rather elementary camera angles

Victory of Faith is perhaps understandably a

film Riefenstahl is very reluctant to talk about

To this day, she is annoyed about

the conditions in which she had to film

and which made it impossible for her

to achieve her usual perfection

No, the first one wasn't

a proper Party Congress film

It was just a few shots I put together,

because Hitler wanted it

It has nothing to do with

my technique

You can only discuss technique

in 'Triumph of the Will'

In the first film there was

no technique?

No, we couldn't prepare. When I arrived

the Congress was in progress

Let me explain why. My dear

Herr Müller, I could do nothing

The party forbade it. Hitler and

Goebbels had had a row

If you mention the first film...

...I must say why I couldn't use

my techniques

Go ahead

But, my God, it's too important

to discuss here!

Not only was the camera work shoddy,

but the organization of the event itself

seemed uncharacteristically chaotic

The Nazis have not yet learned

how to march like Nazis

It is quite obvious that both Hitler and

Riefenstahl were still trying to get it right

The first wasn't a proper film

Just a few scenes of them running

around here, which we put together

Didn't you edit it yourself?

Yes I did. I had to put it together

but I had scarcely any material

{\a8}A society...

However some sequences already have

the characteristic Riefenstahl touch

{\a8}...without regard...

...to origin, class...

...profession, wealth or education

A society...

...which feels itself bound

together, united...

{\a8}...in one great faith and one great purpose

In places like this, the mark of

Riefenstahl was unmistakable

{\a8}Not for position...

A dramatic intensity humped up by

the composition and the editing

{\a8}...and not for party

Not for profession...

...and not for class...

...but united in our one Germany

Your clients were satisfied?

They'd have been happy with any old

newsreel provided it showed swastikas

Nevertheless the film had to be

edited. It became a short

It was shown in some cinema

or other, I forget where

Hitler and the others liked it

It was interesting

but they weren't satisfied

Hitler insisted I make another film

the following year

Were you dissatisfied too?

To me it wasn't a proper film.

Just some shots

Again and again one can see clearly that

Hitler was not yet in sole command

Beside him, and on the

same level stands his

storm trooper commander, Ernst Röhm

Shortly afterwards, Hitler had

him assassinated

An attempt by the the party

to boycott her filming angered

angered Riefenstahl so much that she

immediately complained to Hitler

I explained exactly what

the problem was

Goebbels was present, and you can

imagine what happened next

Goebbels went white as a sheet

Hitler was furious, beside himself.

He said:

"This must never happen again.

You will make the film next year"

I said I can't. I'll never do

another one"

I'd made up my mind not to

I ran out in floods of tears...

...and soon after I got home,

there was a phone call to say...

...I had to go and see Goebbels

It was the day Goebbels went

to Geneva...

...to announce that Germany was

leaving the League of Nations

That's why I remember

I got to his office in the Propaganda

Ministry and he screamed at me:

"If you were a man and

not a woman...

"...I'd throw you downstairs

"You're a dangerous woman.

Never let me set eyes on you again"

That's how it ended

And everything that came later

resulted from this hate

In 1934, Riefenstahl was back

filming in Nuremberg

This time she was given a free hand,

a triumph of her own will,

{\a8}TRIUMPH OF THE WILL

or a pact with the devil

Today it's easy to think that

Now that we know all the terrible

things he did and got others to do...

then clearly it was

a pact with the Devil

But we didn't know then

Hitler probably was schizophrenic,

both a devil...

...and its opposite, but we could

only see one side of him

Not that terrible, dangerous side

I just wanted to act

I didn't want to take on

this terrible workload

I wasn't against it for political

reasons. Not at all

I just wanted to do something

different

But Hitler's wish was his command

It would have been difficult

if not impossible to get out of it

I made one last attempt by driving to

Nuremberg where I knew Hitler was

I saw him at a meeting with Speer

and others, and he had the plans

He said:

"Fräulein Riefenstahl, give me six

days of your life, just six days

"I want this film to be made by an

artist and not a Party film-director"

"I'll make it", I said...

"...if you promise me I'll never have to

make another film for the Reich...

"...for you or the Party"

At vast expense, Riefenstahl made

'Triumph of the Will', which to this day

is regarded by film historians as

the best propaganda film of all time

Riefenstahl has always maintained

that the making of this film

was just a job, which she

performed to perfection

When I began my documentary...

...I wondered what I could do to

make it better than the newsreels

In 1934, when I made

'Triumph of the Will'...

...newsreels were very static,

no movement, no travelling shots

I thought the shots should be made

mobile and thus more interesting

That's why my crew began trying

to shoot on roller-skates

But above all I needed

lots of different...

...camera positions

It doesn't look like a documentary,

more like an art film

How did you achieve this

artistic intensity?

It's a feeling for links

between images

A connection between one picture

and the next...

...or from one visual colour-range,

say from grey tones, to another

It's like a musical composition

It's very important...

...to put climax at the right point

in a film...

...so that there's a continuous

build-up

We stand here

We stand at the ready...

...to take Germany into

the new age

Germany

I tried a hundred different ways

at the editing stage

It took me over five months

First I was working 12 hours

a day, then 14, 18...

...and in the end 20

That meant I couldn't do anything

but sit at my editing-suite...

...trying to find ways to

avoid jumps...

...so it would all flow

in an interesting way

I tried hundreds of ways

Comrade, where are you from?

From Friesland

And you?

- From Bavaria

- And you?

From Kaiserstuhl

And you?

From Pomerania

And from Königsberg

From Silesia

From the North Sea coast

From Black Forest

From Dresden

- From the Danube

- From the Rhine

And from the Saar

One people...

...one Führer, one Reich

Germany

This artistic depth you mention...

...brought accusations against you later

of glorifying the Nazis

But those people should have tried

making the film themselves

Either one makes a newsreel

and those were made...

...or one can try to make

the material into a film...

...that's more interesting -

but without posed shots

In Flanders...

...in the west...

...in the east...

...in the south...

...on land and water

and in the skies...

...the Red menace and forces of reaction

have been brought down

Did you notice that in this film...

...there was no commentary

in the normal sense of the word?

There's no commentator

to explain everything

That's one way it differs...

...from a documentary

and a propaganda film

If it were propaganda, as many say,

there'd be a commentator...

...to explain the significance and

value of the occasion

This wasn't the case

The looming close-ups

of Hitler in this film

were the first that

the German people had ever seen

It wasn't hard because Hitler

never let himself be distracted

You could dance round him

all you liked

Didn't you build a track round him?

Yes, that was one idea. I had to film

3 or 4 of Hitler's speeches

How could I make each one different

and avoid repetition?

I thought, for one of the speeches,

of laying a circular track round him

The speech would be more interesting

than if shot from a fixed point

We want a final end to

class differences

You must not let them develop

among you

We want one day to see one Reich

You must make yourselves fit for it

We want this people one day

to be obedient...

...so you must learn obedience

We want our people to be

peace-loving but also brave...

...so you must be peaceable

You see that lift there?

We had such difficulty getting

permission for that. I'll run it back

We got permission...

...to build a tiny camera lift

into the flag-poles

The effect was very good

What's striking is the contrast...

...between the huge crowds

and one individual - Hitler

Is that a conscious technique?

There was nothing else.

Just Hitler and the people

Wasn't it difficult since you had

no idea about politics...

...to edit political speeches?

That has nothing to do with politics.

It's a technical matter

If a 2-hour speech,

regardless of it content...

...trees or fish or politics -

needs cutting down to 5 minutes...

...any editor will take out

everything he can

The speech must have a beginning

and an end...

...and two or three important

sentences in the middle

Everything else has to go. You need

a real beginning, an end...

...and in the middle

something which thrills the people

Any editor can do that.

It's not a problem

You were guided by the applause?

Yes, the effect, people's expressions

If you're an editor...

...and you can cut out

Hitler wiping his nose or coughing...

...you drop that and use the shots where

his expression is more interesting

Of course you do. An editor must

decide which shots work best

That isn't politics. Anyway, a speech

will only have one theme

We live by one great

commandment...

...and this was not given us...

...by any earthly authority

It was given us by God...

...who created our people

These Congresses were so well

staged, and still seem so today

Did you direct them

or who planned them?

Don't make me laugh.

Why should I be involved?

I wasn't even a Party member,

let alone an organiser

What makes you think I was involved?

They were great productions.

Who dreamed them up?

- Hitler and Speer

- All by themselves?

Yes. I had nothing to do with it.

I knew nothing. I'd no idea about it

I just observed and tried to film it

well

The idea that I helped to plan it

is downright absurd

Those crowd scenes look like

something out of a Wagner opera

You see such scenes in Moscow

and Peking

You saw those huge parades

a few months ago...

...in Peking and in Korea.

You see them everywhere

Those parades were vast

Far more grandiose than in

'Triumph of the Will'

You saw weapons and missiles

going past

Platform decorated with hundreds

of red flags. All on a huge scale

It had to be filmed the way

an artist, not a politician, sees it

Hitler didn't want a political film.

He wanted an artistic film

That's what he got.

I'd no idea I could do it

My not wanting to make the film had

nothing to do with politics

I just lacked confidence.

It seemed an insoluble task

Still, you were later accused of

seducing people with this film

OK, a few idiots say that

All I can say is

it's thoroughly stupid

It would mean that I staged it,

that I was Hitler himself...

...and I'd made all these people

pose for me

Didn't a film-maker have

terrific public influence...

...in the days before radio and

television?

Doesn't that artist have a special

responsibility?

What was my responsibility?

By that time 90% of the people

were in favour of Hitler

Should I have been a resistance fighter?

There were a very few of those

Should I have been one of them?

No, since you say politics didn't

interest you...

Not at all. To me the film wasn't

about politics, it was an event

I'd have made exactly the same film

in Moscow, if the need arose...

...though I'd have preferred not

Or in America, if something of

the sort had taken place there

I shot the subject-matter as well

as I could and shaped it into a film

Now, whether it was about politics or

about vegetables or fruit...

...I couldn't give a damn.

I don't get it

If I'd been political...

...I'd have joined the Party

and I would have been interested

- I didn't mean it like that

- I never went to any meetings

I turned down all offers to make

other political films

I never made a single one

My question is this

If one works in the media, mustn't one

interest oneself in politics?

Nowadays, perhaps, but not then.

And anyway, who'd have done it?

Everyone was behind Hitler

If you were an artist today...

...what would you feel your political

responsibility to be?

The artist should maybe ask himself

what will be done with his creation

How are we to judge artists...

...who, for example, made films

during the Stalin period?

Like Eisenstein or Pudovkin.

What should we say...

...about those who made films -

very good ones - in the GDR?

What should we say about artists who

made good films in the Third Reich?

What does political responsibility mean?

And to whom is one responsible?

Take politics today.

How can you tell...

...who can assure us the right kind

of future?

It's our desire and intention...

...that this Reich shall exist...

...for thousands of years to come

We can be happy...

...in the knowledge that

this future belongs wholly to us

There's another thing I want to say

If an artist dedicates himself

totally to his work...

...he cannot think politically

That's true of practically every

artist in the past...

...who produced great works

Be it Michelangelo, Rodin, Rubens

or the Impressionists

None of these people...

...had any time a feeling

for politics

And even if they had, they shouldn't

see into the future

You also asked -

I'll answer that later...

...whether 'Triumph of the Will'

had any message

While I was actually filming,

of course I had no such thoughts

But when I was editing...

...I did discover a certain message

in it. You can find it yourself

It's firstly the creation of jobs,

through the labour-service scheme...

...and above all the speech by Hess

where he says:

You were...

...the guarantor of victory

You are our guarantor of peace

Adolf Hitler. Sieg heil!

At the time we felt that one

of the messages was peace

It recurs throughout the film

Other political motives or objectives

aren't mentioned

There's nothing about anti-semitism

or race-theory

Work and peace are the only messages

in 'Triumph of the Will'

There were films with far more

swastika-banners...

...full of political bias

'Triumph' had none of this...

...so I never felt I'd done anything

that could do any damage

If it had been harmful, the French would

never have given it a gold medal...

Olympic's film on camera

That was a week before war broke out

At the time she says, all that matter

to her was the aesthetics of film

...two years before the

outbreak of war

The National Film Prize for 1934/35

is awarded...

...to Leni Riefenstahl for her film

of the Nuremberg Party Congress...

'Triumph of the Will'

This work stands out as

a great achievement...

...in the year's film output

It is especially relevant because

it presents our age

It shows, in monumental images

never before seen...

...the thrilling events

of our political life

It is the great vision

of the Führer on film...

...presented in images

of a vividness never before seen

Politically speaking,

the significance of this film...

...was that it was in tune with

the times

That's to say, 90% of Germans,

and a majority of foreigners...

...believed in the peace

that was being proclaimed

When you look at

'Triumph of the Will' now...

...you must be proud of it

But it had also made the second

half of your life extremely hard

How do you see it?

I've never been proud of it.

Neither today, nor then

Proud of what? All that was slaving,

all that work - it was ghastly

I nearly ruined my health

editing the film, and for what?

True, the film was considered

a good documentary

But since the war it's been slated

because it's seen as propaganda

Before the war, of course, the film

got all the international awards...

...like the Gold Medal in Paris

and the one at the Biennale

But after the war

I not only got brickbats...

...I was castigated because of it

So not only am I not proud...

...I'm deeply unhappy I made it

If I'd known what the film would

bring me. I'd never have made it

Half a century later,

the terrible legacy

of the Nazis is still

being digested in Germany

After the war, Leni Riefenstahl,

the obsessed and politically

blinkered filmmaker was boycotted

and universally despised

To this day, she's not been able to

make another film, that is the price

she's had to pay for her

brilliant career under the Nazis

This shot is one of my favorites

I got the effect... I brought out

the festive quality...

...by using a telephoto lens

That's why the banners look

so densely packed

And here comes something else

It's the effect of the shots

taken from the lift

Now the camera swings...

...to one side...

...over to the right

And then the camera swings...

...the other way...

...to the left

These two angles produce

the form of a circle...

...thus making a powerful impact

Here the two lines of banners appear

to be cutting across each other

That was made possible by using

different camera positions

And the editing gives it

a balletic quality

It's cut in time to the music

Those are the banners of

the Stahlhelm

There were various formations

marching past

That's interesting too

{\a8}The way they walk down the steps

Today, Triumph of the Will

remains under lockened key in Germany

{\a8}Here, do you see?

People are still afraid to

examine the film seriously

{\a8}Precisely in time with the music

Can a film really be that dangerous?

Or is it too vivid a reminder of

something that many would prefer to forget

Interesting, isn't it?

End of the first part

In 1936, Leni Riefenstahl made the official

film of the Olympic Games in Berlin

After the war, this documentary was

listed in America as one of the

world's ten best films

I wondered, could I make this film?

Could I make it interesting?

And suddenly I had before my eyes

a picture...

...of the Olympic Games

in ancient Greece

Not only the stadium...

...but the whole culture -

the temples, the sculptures

The transition from the ancient world

to the modern...

...had wonderful dramatic

possibilities

It was easier to present it in purely

visual terms...

...rather than as a series

of actions

Riefenstahl was to direct the

entire film, even the sport sequences

Athlete models freeze by the

bold take for Riefenstahl's camera

Under Riefenstahl's direction,

the athletes would turn from

ordinary models into sporting Gods

- How did you prepare for the film?

- Mainly by training the cameramen

Everything depended on them

I had four or five young men

that I trained for months...

...at athletics meetings,

football matches and so on

Often without film, just to practice

camera movements...

...and get the quick reactions

we needed

Never before had so much been spent

on preparing to film a documentary

Officially Riefenstahl had received

the assignment from the Olympic committee,

but it was the German Ministry of

Propaganda which actually provided

the funds through indirect channels

Despite the economic problems

of the times, the resources put

to the director's disposal

were almost unlimited

For the first time in many years,

Riefenstahl is reunited

{\a8}You still look so well

{\a8}I've no complaints

with two of her old cameramen

{\a8}Congratulations

You never change, do you?

My two best cameramen here again

after half a century

Walter Frentz on the right

was an expert in handheld camera

On the left is Guzzi Lantschner

I'll tell you something.

Diving I can still do...

...but that film - I couldn't make it

again

Much too strenuous

We worked like mad

Late into the night.

We couldn't do that now

Look. Just as it was

Do you remember, Guzzi...

...how we looked for places to get

the best angles?

We turned the stadium into

a film studio

Many technical innovations

were tried out in Olympiad

It was the first film in which

pits were dug, so that the athletes

could be filmed against the sky

We had to fight for every hole we dug

You were always the one...

...with the exact eye...

...for a shot

Whether it should be half a metre

right or left

Riefenstahl now had the

full scope to apply the lesson

she had learned from Arnold Fanck,

her great mentor

The best idea we had - I think

it was your idea - was the catapult

We built a track with

a catapult on it which travelled...

...alongside the sprinters

It was fantastic but they banned it

We had lots of new ideas

Yes. The most important one was...

...digging a hole for

the pole-vault

Out in the field, to the left

And we filmed the whole thing...

...against the Olympic flame.

It gave us some marvellous shots

She was later reproached for many

of the images pioneered in Olympiad

Her critics felt that

the cult of the body beautiful

Riefenstahl's obsession with

strength and athletic perfection

were unmistakably fascist

The same was later said of her

photographs of Nuba tribesmen

It was important

that each cameraman...

...had a different lens and camera

You sometimes had a Bell & Howell

and sometimes Sinclair

- And you had a Bell & Howell

- With two speeds

Normal, 24 frames per second

and fast, up to 48

That was important for the diving

The body could be seen

so much more clearly

That was the first time...

Then we got the close-ups

with the Ascania

We had a special lens made for us -

a 600mm telephoto

They didn't exist then

Herr Shalck got those marvellous

close-ups

Even though we couldn't get near

the runners

We still got tight in on faces

Owens in the lead, Strandberg

behind him, Rosenthal creeping up

Metcalfe makes a spurt. It's over.

Owens wins the 100 metre sprint

I remember something else

The balloon. Do you remember?

Everyday we sent up a balloon...

...with a tiny 5 metre camera...

...to get an overall aerial view

Everyday it landed somewhere

different - on roofs and things

None of the shots were any use

Anyone finding this camera would

discover a little note in it

asking them to return it to

the Leni Riefenstahl production team

We had the balloon at the regatta

in Grünau

It crashed before the races finished

I cried. It was terrible

There was nothing they

did not try out

A many of these experiments have become

standard practice in film production

A break in the shoot

Leni and her old campaigners

stop for coffee

I had so many arguments

in those days

And them, in 1935, Churchill said

"I envy the Germans their Führer"

I thought "How can I be cleverer

than Churchill? He really said that"

Two years later, he said "The German

swine must now be slaughtered"

I like your style. You'll do

And you were well in there...

...because you flew to Moscow

with Ribbentrop...

...with the two copies of the Treaty

{\a8}Stalin wrote a letter which

the Russian ambassador gave me

Riefenstahl refuses to get drawn into

{\a8}That was a week before war broke out

a political discussion about the

Olympic's film on camera

At the time she says

all that mattered to her

was the aesthetics of film

I had 30 cameramen

Not all here. There were

other events in Grünau and Kiel

There were also indoor events and

the cameramen were spread around

Much of what is now a normal practice

in an age of electronic live reporting,

was first tried out then by Leni Riefenstahl

In Olympiad, she set new standards

for filming sporting events

and went far beyond the traditional

bounds of a sport documentary

Nothing was left to chance

Dramatic scenes, which her crew

could not get close enough to

during the competition, were

filmed in advance during training

and later spliced into

the final footage

In this way, many of the documentary

sequences had changed the dramatic impact

of a feature film

It was worst when there were

a lot of us

I had to assign jobs to everyone

I could only organise this

once the day's shoot had finished

There was a production meeting

every night

I'd have just 5 minutes

to talk to each person...

...and give out assignments...

{\a8}...according to people's skills

The logistics of the operation

were remarkable

They had no walkie-talkies or talkback

Riefenstahl planned the entire

shoot like a military campaign

Every camera angle was

deliberate and coordinated

I really admired her

She had an incredible ability

for composing shots

And a tremendous eye

The shots she selected

were always just right

The winner is England

She had such energy and

determination

When we began the Olympics film...

...we wanted to dig a hole beside

the pole-vault...

...so we could film the vaulters

against the sky

But the Olympic Committee said

it would endanger the athletes

So Leni said "Let me talk to them"

She went to the Committee and said:

"Our film will be ruined

if we can't do this"

She came back that night and said

"We can do it". I cried my eyes out

As a superbly organized sporting event,

the Berlin Olympics gave the Nazis

an opportunity to present

Germany as a peaceful,

tolerant and powerful nation.

And it is natural to assume

that Hitler would've welcomed the games

Hitler wasn't pleased

I was making the film

Hitler wasn't in the least interested

in the Olympics

He didn't like the Games at all.

He told me so himself

It was understandable

Hitler wouldn't enjoy watching

blacks win

Seeing all those international stars

when he was such a Nationalist

A new world record.

And gold for America

Wasn't this a chance to

present a certain image of Germany?

Possibly - but Hitler wasn't

interested

It took a lot of convincing

to make him come

Come to the Games and Germany

will do better, they said

He didn't care.

He didn't like the stadium

It was too small

He didn't like the architecture

Ask anyone who was there

They'll tell you Hitler had

no interest in the Games

The result of all this complicated

coverage was 250 miles of film

You shot 400 km of film. How did you

cope with so much material?

First of all, people don't understand

why we shot so much film

They should remember that

there were 136 different events

In the athletics heats, we never knew

if a record would be broken

So we had to film everything -

hence the quantities of film

Once again, Riefenstahl's

legendary sense of order

and impeccable planning

enabled her and her team

to keep a grasp on this vast project

Even so, the editing alone

took two years, as always,

she did it herself, obsessively

editing and re-editing her film

This little machine...

The Litax machine invented by

Dr. Fanck...

...made it possible to edit very fast

We didn't have to splice the

strips of film into reels...

...which was so time consuming

All we did was slot the film

into this machine...

...and snap it shut

We could then look and edit the film

accurately

If I don't like a sequence,

I throw the film into the bin...

...or put it round my neck for later

Then I take another sequence

and compare it

This enables me...

...without exaggeration...

...to work ten times faster

than otherwise

This system only works for

documentaries, not for features...

...because here the soundtrack

is put on later

One of the most difficult sequences

was the marathon.

The ultimate test of sporting endurance

Once again, she used

feature film techniques

to capture the sweat and the pain

I had to think hard how I could

shape the 26-mile race...

...into a few short minutes that

would be exciting and interesting

I soon realised

I couldn't achieve this...

...just by filming the race

step by step

Instead, I'd have to try...

...to show the feelings, the

mental state of the marathon runners

And I thought I could best

express that...

...by showing the exhaustion

in their faces

How, though their legs were

like lead...

...they didn't collapse but kept

going by sheer willpower

Willpower can't be shown visually

but can be indicated by music

If you listen, you'll hear the music

seeming to drive the runners on

The music expresses the will not to

collapse but to reach the stadium

The camera looks down the torso,

as we'd practised it...

...to the tired legs almost

sticking to the asphalt

And this difference,

this portrayal...

...maybe raised the film above

the level of ordinary reportage

Leni Riefenstahl, on an official

mission, visits the exhibition

The star of German cinema speaks

You've been invited here

to present your film

It was very hard work but I'm happy

the task was entrusted to me

People don't understand why 'Olympia'

has taken so long to release

We shot 400,000 metres of film

And it's a huge task,

sorting through this footage...

...putting it in order and

making a film out of it

Just viewing all the film

took 10 weeks

I spent 10 hours a day

in the projection-room

That gives you an idea

of what's involved

For the men's high diving,

we experimented a lot

Up till then it had been done

rather boringly...

...with a single shot of the man

plunging off the board

We set up three cameras

for this event

Guzzi Lantschner was up there

with a hand-held camera

And Hans Ertl below...

...with an underwater camera

Over there was

the slow motion camera...

...so that the diving could be filmed

from all angles

The most interesting experiment

was the underwater shooting

It had never been done before

Ertl had built himself a camera

and sat in the water

He followed the diver down

till he hit the water...

...switched to slow motion,

changed focus...

...and kept the camera on the diver

until he surfaced

It's the Japanese girl again

We experimented with

the swimming too

Over there for the swimming...

...we pushed the camera along on

a rubber raft, hanging from a rig...

...to get close-ups of

the swimmers' faces

But we couldn't use it

in the finals

Higgins

Yldefonzo...

Koike...

Ito

A fight to the finish

I wanted a crescendo of intensity

I began mundanely enough

with the women's diving...

...giving the diver's names.

With the men I left that out

I just edited to highlight the

diving itself and the movement

They looked like birds

swooping through the air

This looked very attractive...

...so, to heighten the effect,

I used different tempi when editing

If you look, you'll see

the first dive is at normal speed

Then the next one is a bit slower -

not quite slow motion but almost

And so on until full slow motion

But even that wasn't enough.

They really had to look like birds

Her creative editing

techniques are seen to

greatest artistic effect in high diving

It's only when you disentangle

her handy work on an editing desk

that you realize how some of the

sequences were printed backwards

and that the diver was actually

springing out of water

reversing through the air and

landing back on the spring-board

I achieved this by sometimes

splicing in a sequence back to front

But it was hardly noticeable. It just

enhanced the feeling of movement

It simply became a form

of artistic expression

The creative sport photography

in Olympiad has rarely been bettered

To what extent, though, of these films

an expression of the Fascist spirit

which prevailed in Germany at that time?

Is Riefenstahl no more than

an artist obsessed,

blind to events outside her cutting?

The question remains unanswered

Today, aged 90, she still repeats

what she has always said

that art and politics are

two different things,

that one has nothing

to do with the other

The premier of Olympiad took place

on Hitler's 49th birthday

Immediately afterwards, she went

on a European tour with her film

It was hailed everywhere as a triumph

and success

The German Film Prize 1937-38...

...goes to Leni Riefenstahl...

...for the film "Olympia"

April 1938, the premiere in Vienna

Eighteen months later, the

Second World War broke out

All Vienna welcomes you

Thank you for your kind words

I am so very happy to be in Vienna

and attending the premiere

I've not been here for five years

This is my first chance to see Vienna

since our Führer came to power

In November of that year, Germany

witnessed the notorious Kristallnacht

The persecution of the Jews

reached new extremes

But once again Riefenstahl

wasn't there to see it

It was on a boat sailing for New York

that she first learnt of the Kristallnacht

But her trip to Hollywood was a fiasco

The film industry which included many

German emigrants demanded a boycott

I didn't believe it. It seemed

impossible

I'd read so many false reports about

Germany in the American newspapers

I thought it was lies, so I said so

Its nothing true, what the American

newspapers write about the Nazis

I couldn't believe it but, when I got

to New York. I saw huge headlines

One page said "Synagogues burnt down,

shops looted. Jews persecuted"

On the next page:

"Riefenstahl says..."

Its nothing true, what the American

newspapers write about the Nazis

Whenever I was asked, I said

"It can't be true. It's impossible"

KILL THE JEWS

Now you're going to ask me

why I didn't leave Germany

You see, I loved my homeland

The ones who left were emigrants

and people who'd been banned

I could work. I was free. I hoped

it would never happen again

We all hoped it was

an isolated event

All true art must imprint...

...the stamp of beauty on itself

All that is healthy

is right and natural

What is right and natural

is beautiful

It's our task to discover

true beauty

We must not be led astray...

...by the mad, impudent drivel...

...of effete literati who decry...

...the natural and beautiful

as kitsch

The pictures were awful

They were all kitsch

I hardly saw a picture I liked

I was very disappointed at the time

because my great love was modern art

Along with the French Impressionists

and Cranach

But what the National Socialists...

...considered - or called or admired

as art - was for me kitsch

EXHIBITION OF DEGENERATE ART

ADMISSION FREE

Pure German artistic sensibility

means nothing to a rootless Jew

What he calls art must titillate

as depraved senses

It must be cloaked in corruption

as sickness

It must be unnatural, grotesque,

perverse...

...or pathological

These febrile fantasies...

...of incurably sick minds...

...were once flaunted before the public

by Jewish art critics...

...as the highest form of

artistic expression

Surely speeches like this

would've made any sensitive artist

stop and ponder

After everything that had happened

it was the least one could expect

Hitler made a speech about art

and it was so wrong that I thought:

"If he can be so wrong and yet

sound so convincing about art -

"...so convincing

many believed him -

"...maybe he's making

political mistakes too"

That's when I began to have

real doubts

I became much more critical

when I listened to his speeches...

...but I must admit I was never

an opponent

In 1939, German troops marched

into Poland

Riefenstahl was sent to

the front as a war reporter

But on her first day there she witnessed

the brutal ill treatment of Polish civilians

A photograph seems to

testify to her horror

Riefenstahl made an official complaint

to the Nazi General in charge

And left Poland immediately

In August 1940, the German troops

marched into Paris

The Blitzkrieg in the west was over

Riefenstahl sent a

Euphoric telegram to the Führer

Mein Führer, it is with indescribable joy,

deep emotion and warm gratitude,

that we share your greatest

and Germany's greatest victory,

the entry of German troops into Paris

Your deeds exceed the

power of human imagination

they are without equal

in the history of mankind,

how can we ever thank you?

Simply to offer you my congratulations

is an inadequate expression of the feelings

that have stirred me

I didn't send the telegram...

...because our troops were in France,

and because of our victory...

...but because we thought the war was

over. We were in a frenzy of joy

For three days the bells rang

and people kissed on the streets

We all believed this terrible war

was over

It was in this mood that I sent

Hitler my enthusiastic telegram

However there was

no question of peace now.

after Germany's attack on Russia

the conflict in Europe escalated

and became a World War

But Riefenstahl has retreated

to the mountains again

She had begun work on

Tiefland, the lowlands

A film version of d'Albert's opera

It was forced on me...

...because I wanted to keep my head

down and avoid making war films

"Tiefland" was a neutral subject

Since "Olympia" had paid off...

...I was completely free and had

enough money to make a film...

...from a purely artistic perspective

Once again, Riefenstahl had an

opportunity to dance.

Set in Spain, the story

tackles the social conflict

between farmers and land owners

When the production was later moved

to Bavaria, they needed characters

who looked Mediterranean

Gypsies were brought in from a

Gypsy concentration camp near Salzburg

to be used as extras

This is one of the main accusations

that continues to be levelled

at Riefenstahl to this day

List of extras from detention camp

in Leopoldskron

With Hitler's support at the beginning

of the project, Riefenstahl was given

{\a8}Come to the castle.

{\a8}She shall dance for me

as much foreign currency as she needed

to start filming in Spain

But the production was dogged

by misfortune

It was a disaster from the start

We began by looking for

our locations in Spain...

...to keep costs down

But the war came and we couldn't

stay in Spain

Our crew left by the very last plane

We then had to build all the sets

with mountains behind

We had to build an entire

Bavarian village. It was very hard

Then the snow came and destroyed

the village and it had to be rebuilt

As we weren't part of the war effort,

we waited 2 years for a studio

We had to tear our sets down

so propaganda films could be made

Many of these look like paintings.

How did you achieve this effect?

It was my intention,

with this film...

...to concentrate on the visual...

...and maintain the art of filming

in black and white

At that time there was a big switch

to colour

Most films were in colour and hardly

anything was in black and white

Black and white is a special kind

of art, like graphic art

I wanted to make a film...

...which would prove there are

effects in black and white...

...that can't be bettered - or

achieved at all - with colour

God be with you, Pedro

Good day to you, Nando!

- I'm glad to be up here again

- You're up from the Deep Valley?

I've brought flour and salt.

Up here, Pedro, I feel so much freer

I worked a lot with filters

Here I used an orange filter

so this shot - I remember clearly...

...had to have an aperture

of around 3.2...

- For depth...

- No, for an airy, atmospheric effect

In my films I always made sure

the men...

...actors or not, were lit

differently...

...from the women

They were lit...

...from the side

so their features stood out

Whereas, what's important with

women is to make them look...

...young and lovely

The same lighting can make

a woman look...

...20 years youngers or olders,

depending on the angle

Make yourself beautiful

That's how you must look

With a young woman, who must

look beautiful...

...you need a very soft light

from the front

No side-lighting at all, so no

facial lines or flaws are visible

The only really pretty subjects

to photograph are babies

They've absolutely no wrinkles

Even if a woman has only slight

lines on her face...

...they'll appear worse on film

Lighting is very important

Marlene Dietrich always had

the same lighting

Same lighting with a lamp

right above her

It shone down on her face, gave

her shadows, and made her look thin

Another woman would need

different lighting

What kind did you need?

I needed a soft front light - quite

high, but not as high as Marlene's

I didn't want to look as gaunt as her

but I did need soft front-lighting

Wait till I'm sitting

I just want to see what I need

Better go in a bit closer

To achieve this picturesque effect...

...you must look for subjects which

make a composition in themselves

You can't set up a camera

just anywhere

Outdoors, the aperture is generally

reduced because there's so much light

This gives a sharp focus and robs

the shot of air and atmosphere

To avoid this sharpness and still

keep a feeling of realism...

...I used very strong filters

I could filter out the light

without reducing the aperture...

...and achieve this picturesque effect -

sometimes with coloured filters

The hut wasn't built

and then filmed

First we chose it, selected the

background and set up the camera

Then, using the eye of the camera...

...we incorporated the hut

into the whole composition

That's how we achieved

this harmonious effect

- Can I have something to drink?

- Yes, I've plenty of milk

The film was almost finished

when the war ended

Everything was carted off to France

where it lay for 10 years

The French hacked it about

and tried to make it into a film

A lot of footage was lost

I had to employ several lawyers

to get the material back

Then I had to put it together.

It was quite a saga

While Riefenstahl was working on

Tiefland, the war entered its final phase

As the bombs rained down on Berlin,

Riefenstahl took her production

company, and set off for the Tirol

She acquired a farmhouse at the foot of

the Wilder Kaiser mountain near Kitzbühel,

an idyllic refuge, in the

midst of total war

Here she continued to edit Tiefland,

right to the final days of the war

Obsessed with her work,

she can hardly to have heard the allied bombers

flying over daily on their way to Berlin

At what point was her

image of Hitler shattered?

My image of Hitler was shattered

much too late

Right at the end of the war

When I saw he wasn't visiting

the bombed cities...

...and seeing the misery for himself

And that he even recruited old people

and children for the 'Volkssturm'...

...I was appalled. His image

was totally shattered

When did you last see Hitler?

After my war-marriage,

which was on 21st March, 1944

My husband and I were invited...

...to the Berghof

That was the last time

He was very distracted and kept up

a continual monologue

He no longer seemed like a man in

touch with reality, more like a ghost

The final battle for Berlin

By the beginning of 1945, it was

all over for Germany

The country lay in ruins

First French and then American

troops marched into the Tirol

And Riefenstahl was arrested in Kitzbühel

It was a time that

beggars description

So sad, so dreadful.

All our ideals were shattered

One just could not comprehend it all

It was a terrible fall

into the abyss

It was only when I was interrogated

by the Americans in Dachau...

...that I saw pictures of the camps

I'd never seen any pictures

or heard anything about them

It was such a terrible shock

I couldn't believe...

...human beings could do such things

And these things had been done

on Hitler's orders

It was quite a time

before I could believe it

And, when I did, my life fell apart

because I'd believed in Hitler

It was so shattering...

...that one's own life seemed

utterly unimportant

There were only two possibilities

Either to live with this appalling

burden of guild weighing us down...

...or to die

It was a constant dilemma,

to live or to die

This bloody struggle had so far caused

60 million human lives in Europe alone

After you discovered the crimes

of the Third Reich...

...did you look on your work

differently?

No. I was just appalled and confused

to have lived through that period

I did look at it differently...

...to the extent that I put myself

into the minds of the victims

How awful for them to see those

swastikas, the SS men and the SA -

...people we'd never thought of

as criminals

It was a breakdown that's

actually been permanent

I've never recovered from the horror

People say of me:

"She's blind. She doesn't want

to know

"She'll always be a Nazi"

But none of this applied to me

I was never a Nazi,

so I can't be one still

I condemn all that happened but it

doesn't help. They don't believe me

At the denazification trial in Freiburg,

Leni Riefenstahl's connection with the

National Socialists was scrutinized closely

Most of the witnesses who testified

at the trial are still alive

and continue to confirm the statements

they made then

Riefenstahl's trial attracted

huge attention from the world's press

Finally the court declared that

she couldn't be condemned as a Nazi

but classed as a sympathizer

The judges found no political activity

in support of the Nazi regime

that would justify punishment

There were many however, who

remembered Riefenstahl's

prominent position in the Third Reich

and were unhappy with the verdict

Character assassination is

all too easy

I've been attached countless times

The most incredible things

have been said about me

For instance, that I was Hitler's

mistress, his lover...

Goebbel's lover, or Goering's -

or of all of them

That I'd used gypsies from

a concentration camp for a film...

...which I never did

All this was stated...

...to try and finish me and

ensure I never worked again

After the war, for over 20 years,

Riefenstahl lived alone with her

mother in an attic in Munich

She was never to make another film

Despite this, she still receives

fanmails from all over the world

For in the 1960s, she made a well

publicized comeback

In her travels she had discovered

a new continent

and a fresh inspiration in Africa

In 1962, Riefenstahl travelled to

the southern Sudan to visit the Nuba

a remote community of around a 100 tribes

who'd had a little contact

with the outside world

Her love of Africa had begun

some years earlier,

when she visited Kenya to make a film

about the modern day slave trade

The film was called Black Cargo,

and was never finished

On her way back to Nairobi, Riefenstahl

was involved in a major car crash

and nearly killed

It was a grave setback, but she never

lost her passion for the dark continent

Her first book of photographs of

the Nuba was published in 1973

How did your fascination

with the Nuba begin?

With a photo

An ordinary photo that I happened

to see in an old issue of 'Stern'...

...when I was lying in hospital

in Nairobi, after a car accident

This photo, which I always keep

on my desk...

...where I'm working with the Nuba,

had changed my life

It shows two wrestlers...

Nubas, just what I wanted

for my film 'Black Cargo'

I needed men like that but in Kenya

and Tanzania I couldn't find any

The Masai were slim and graceful...

...but black athletes of the kind

I needed weren't to be found

So I went looking for them

At the age of 60, Riefenstahl went

to live alone with the Nuba

for eight months

This is the little bed where I slept

for months...

...with hundreds of wild dogs

around me

Strangely enough, I was happy

Wrestlers from different tribes assembled

to play for a wrestling festival

Funded by a friend, August Arnold,

who ran a camera company in Munich,

Riefenstahl took both

photographs and film footage

of the Nuba during his stay

Her Nuba footage has never

been shown publicly before

But it was her Nuba photographs

that brought her back to prominence

The photos weren't so important. I

went there to get to know the people

But, as always when I'm travelling,

I took a few shots

Whatever appealed to me - their

lifestyle, the way they moved...

...their physical types, their faces,

their rituals

I never thought I'd publish

the results

The Seraba, a herdsmen's encampment

The young men would live in

the Seraba encampment,

cut-off from the village,

and prepare themselves for

the traditional wrestling contests

The adolescents go through

an initiation rite

Only then can they take part

in the wrestling

As a mark of their membership

of the Seraba, the young men

cover themselves with ash

and paint their bodies

The ash has a ritual significance.

It is meant to give them

strength and beauty

The Nuba were strange beings to me

I'd never met native Africans

before

They surprised me by their character

They were poor

They only had their land and

a little water but they were happy

They weren't suspicious. We soon got

to know each other using a few words

They were so warm and cheerful

It made me think "How little

one needs to be happy"

I've often been back and

I've always felt at ease there

Over 3000 metres of film footage

of the Nuba is stored in

Leni Riefenstahl's basement

But the film about the Nuba,

a pet project for so many years

has never been completed

It is true that some important material

was destroyed during processing

But what prevents such an enthusiastic

editor from cutting her own work

Just before setting off on her

second Nuba expedition

Riefenstahl was to have a decisive encounter

She met Horst Kettner,

40 years her junior, he

nevertheless became her companion

working and travelling with her

as he still does today

For the next Nuba expedition,

Riefenstahl would be better equipped

Horst would be her cameraman

She had trained him herself

in the course of her travels

A wrestling festival

among the Masaki Nuba

These Masaki Nuba wrestling

festivals begin

after first harvest in November

and last until the end of March

The contests never end brutally

The wrestler who throws his

opponent on his back wins

There is a referee to oversee

the fair play

A 160 miles away,

is another tribe

with very different customs and language

These are the Nuba of Kao.

They're Nuba too but quite different

Their nature is quite unlike

the Masaki Nuba

They're wild.

Not as peaceable as the other Nuba

It's difficult to work with them

but worth the effort

They're artists

More gifted than any other tribe

I've seen

They paint wonderful masks

Each one more interesting

than the last

And they do them in just

20-30 minutes

What are they for?

Purely to beautify themselves.

It's just decoration

There's a ritual symbolism to

the signs found on many of them

For instance...

...some have exaggerated their eyes

They want to make their eyes

seem larger

And on others the lines are

stylised representations...

...of gazelles and other animals

they know

It's amazing. Every mask is different

I'm more attracted by an aesthetic

subject than by an ugly one

I can't be creative with

a negative subject

I only become creative

and have ideas...

...when dealing with something

which stimulated my enthusiasm

That's been true of all my films

A dance ceremony of the Nuba of Kao

These ceremonies take place

after the traditional knife contests

Only virgins are allowed to dance

The girls woo the fighters

with their dancing

According to an American anthropologist

the Nuba consider their own bodies

as the highest form of art

It's not just the masks of these Nuba

that are interesting...

...but also their hair decorations

Here you see, for example,

this notch in the hair

And here too. That means he's a

Kaduma - they're the only men...

...allowed to fight

Comparing her famous Nuba photographs

with the massive film footage,

it is easier to understand why her

promised Nuba film never materialized

Working without a professional cameraman

and unable to dictate and

influence all the actions,

Riefenstahl, the obsessive perfectionist

couldn't be in total control of the material

and could not reach the aesthetic

heights to which she aspired

You mean Susan Sontag?

It's a mystery to me...

...how such an intelligent woman

can talk such rubbish

I took these pictures...

...of the Nuba, just as they live,

unobserved, without posing

What can be fascist about that?

I don't understand

Her involvement with the Nuba led

once again to doubts about her intentions

and questions of her aesthetics

The cult of the body beautiful

The celebration of masculine power

and strength

Riefenstahl had heard these

reproaches before

It's a lot of rubbish

If you're living among such natural

people and carry a camera...

...and they don't want to be

photographed...

...you can still take shots

because they get to know you

But what has that got to do with

Strength and Beauty?

I've not changed these people

They're very healthy human beings.

There's no sickness in the tribe

The old people sit in dark houses,

in shadow, so you can't film them

Those who walk about outside

are mainly young, healthy

Many also happen to be beautiful

But I didn't create them. God did

Have you ever thought how one

might define a fascist aesthetic?

I don't understand the question.

I've no concept of fascism...

...unless it be the Hitler salute...

...or the fascist salute with

the raised right hand

- I can't imagine anything

- No visual aesthetic?

No, I've no idea

what that might mean

In the 1970s, Riefenstahl

discovered another refuge

far from the madding crowd,

underwater

Horst, could you kindly bring me the

reel with the sharks in close-up?

We've a shot somewhere of Herbert...

...with a fish in his mouth

and the shark snatching it

I'd like that shot

I think it's in Reel 3.

I'll fetch it for you

Please, it's important

At the age of 70, Riefenstahl

passed her scuba diving test

In order to be allowed to

take the test at all,

she had to claim to be only 50

Since then, she has dived

with Horst in some of

the world's most spectacular

underwater locations

She trained Horst to be her cameraman

Horst uses an underwater

video camera that is protected

by a casing designed by himself

They are now working on an

ambitious underwater epic

that would probably prove to be their last

How long can we stay underwater?

- Twenty minutes maximum

- We'll need to shoot all the scenes

As always, Riefenstahl takes stills

and supervises the lighting

while Horst operates the camera

At the age of 90, Riefenstahl is

probably the oldest diver in the world

Her increasing concern about

the threat to marine life

has led her to become

a member of Greenpeace

Give me the mouthpiece

- There's no air in it

- Yes, look

It was great

The 'crown of thorns' we filmed today

was good

But you didn't hold the camera

steady

I was being pushed by the current

The visibility is very poor

We should really shoot it again

- There was too much plankton

- That's quite good

Well done. That's a good shot

I tried a bit of side-lighting

But you kept telling me to

take the lamp away

I meant the one with the blue filter

I see. You wanted the red

That's very good.

I like that very much

This is too dark, as if you had

under-exposed it

- That was deliberate

- Why deliberate? It was too dark

Now that's a good shot

Diving up a depth of a 100 ft.

they encounter a giant stingray

One touch of its tail

would be lethal

That's really fantastic.

We were so lucky

In 18 years' diving, we've never

had that

We've never had it before

Is that the first or the second?

That's the big one eating

From great mountain heights

and worldwide fame

Riefenstahl has descended

in the twilight years of her life

to a silent world

It is no longer the noble

human form that preoccupies her

but the exotic marine life

of the underwater kingdom

Underwater, far from the public gaze

is where she is happiest

But, even here

she cannot escape

the long shadows cast

by her past

I feel this country...

...is still waiting for you to say

publicly:

"I made a mistake. I'm sorry"

Being sorry isn't nearly enough

But I can't tear myself apart

or destroy myself

It's so terrible. I've suffered

anyway for over half a century

And it will never end, until I die

It's such an incredible burden,

that to say sorry...

It's inadequate, it expresses

too little

Doesn't it hurt to read again and again

that you're irredeemable?

Of course it hurts.

It makes me very, very sad

But because it never stops and

people keep on saying it...

...I have to live with it

It casts such a shadow

over my life...

...that death will be

a blessed release

I feel people are expecting...

...an admission of guilt from you

Well, what do you mean by that?

What am I guilty of?

I can and do regret making the film

of the 1934 Party Congress...

...'Triumph of the Will'

I regret... no, I can't regret

that I was alive in that period

But no words of anti-semitism ever

passed my lips. Nor did I write any

I was never anti-semitic

and I never joined the Nazi Party

So what am I guilty of? Tell me that

I didn't drop any atom bombs.

I didn't denounce anyone

So where does my guilt lie?