The State I Am In (2000) - full transcript

Next to me is Barbara Auer
and I'm Christian Petzold.

Barbara plays the mother Clara
and I'm the director.

We're going to talk
about the film as it plays.

You'll probably tell us
things that even I don't know.

I think I told you everything
during production.

I was very tired the first day.

We had originally planned
a different opening

with the mother
and daughter.

The daughter recites a poem by
Heinrich Heine, The Homeward Journey.

"My heart, my heart is sad
But jolly glows the May"

It's about a lover who's
suffering from a pain of the heart.



Everybody else is so happy
and he's so unhappy.

Finally he wants to be shot.

It's a metaphor for the film.

Julia was meant to recite
the poem to you

but later it seemed
like a cheap TV show.

How's that?
Like a cheap TV show?

Like a 19th Century novel...

A mother and a daughter...

But it's not clear that they're
mother and daughter...

I felt it was beautiful
while she was reading

but now I can't think of any
other opening than this one.

For me it was too literary.

Great in the script
but not on the screen.

We should jump right into
the stream of life.



Now we have a girl looking at
something close to the camera.

We don't know what she's looking at
but she's very present

whereas the poem was
like "Once upon a time..."

Yes... something performed.
This music is beautiful.

The Tim Hardin song...
There was a bad situation with it.

Just before our release, I discovered
that it was in another German movie.

Our sound man was friends
with another director.

So the song went to this other
director who also used it.

But I insisted on using it because,
even while writing the script...

I wrote it at a friend's
in Los Angeles...

the Tim Hardin song
accompanied the story.

So the song's in
two German films?

I think it's sung
by Sabrina Setlur.

So it's a different version?
Well, that's OK.

It's so beautiful by the sea.

So now it's less defined
than with a poem.

Julia has to be seen first
outside the family.

Then we need to make the effort
to understand the family.

It's easier to understand her
as a teenager...

her age... her problems...

when she's with someone
of her own age

before we get all
the family background.

From the start it was important
that the three of you...

Richy, you and Julia...
stare off-screen.

Like with these two...

They should be gazing
into each other's eyes

and not be interested
in anything else.

It's because there's a
constant paranoia in the family cell.

For them there are always
signs of danger.

For her the danger is also
from her parents.

The difference is that, for the parents,
danger is only from outside.

The gift of a CD
that she wanted

with a song by
Belle and Sebastian

called The State I Am In.

The name of this song is
the English title of the film.

I bought the CD
because I liked it so much

and wondered where the song was.

The German expression,
Die innere Sicherheit

is associated with
Rasterfahndung (dragnet)

And with the BKA in Wiesbaden
(Federal Investigation Bureau).

You can't translate this.

Others don't understand that
and don't get the double meaning.

"The State I Am In"
doesn't reflect

the personal space...
the space in society.

In the Belle and Sebastian song,
it's the double meaning

of the state I am in and
the state that society is in.

That's true.
Another double meaning.

Again a scene in which
the father looks back.

A satellite town...

Portugal was a
colonizing country.

A lot of people made
a lot of money in the colonies.

Angola was destroyed.
They invested in construction.

On the Surfer Coast, north of Lisbon,
there are many satellite towns...

expensive apartments
with marble floors.

Lots are empty and there's
something ghostly about them.

So they're really good
for a family to hide in.

What I thought about
for a long time was...

in what places do people
define their family cell?

From my own memory,
it's the car...

Where did you get
the term "family cell"?

Because of "underground cell."

On the set, you made strong
reference to a family cell

and so we intensified it.

In the 70s, the Family was
heavily criticized by the Left.

Society consists
of countless cells

and the family is
the smallest cell.

Within the family we get shaped
into a citizen through education.

It's a biological model.

Here, with reference to
a former political cell

this one is transformed
into a family cell

because they're
educating someone

and they're not working inside
a political group any more.

The main places
for the family cell are

the car and the dinner table.
That's how it is in the West.

- The car is part of the West.
- The car?

When you ask people where
they fly away in their daydreams

they reply, "in the car!"

Kids in the back,
parents in the front...

Mom can't read the map...
Dad's getting mad...

In the back the kids are sick,
always getting sick.

They only see the backs
of their heads

and there's terrible tension.

And the kids stare at
the outside world

as the landscapes and
buildings pass by

and they start to imagine
other worlds.

So I imagined the car as a
Faraday cage for the family

and the dining table as
the conference room.

And it's such a lovely ritual that
we as grown-ups practice happily.

But for kids it's different.

Yes, like "may I leave
the table now?"

Most of the scenes in the film
play on situations

that we know so well.

And my own childhood came back
to me while I was writing...

Such phrases as
"May I get up now?"

Or "Keep your elbows down."
Or "Please pass the salad."

The dining table is
a place of upbringing.

The father is an unimportant
employee, work is shitty...

But at the table he boasts

about giving his boss
a piece of his mind.

This family goes
through all that

but in a foreign world,
in a no-man's land.

And they're a little smarter!

In the dining table scene...

Consciously! It was still very
painful when we played the scene

when she gets up and leaves.

I felt that pain because it shows
how destitute the parents are.

I felt it while shooting
and even now while watching.

It's the only weapon a kid has,
to get up and go to her room.

Helplessness is part
of childhood.

They're exposed to that
because they're smaller.

But that's when a kid
can fight back.

The parents in the film are not
totally unpleasant.

Yes, that's what people say.

That they betrayed their daughter
is part of the tragedy

because she can't socialize
normally and it's their fault.

Other parents have kids and
you ask, "What are you doing?"

That was also a question
in the 70s and 80s:

"Should we bring children
into a world like this?"

Should we only have children
when the bank balance

and living space are right?
You wouldn't want that.

I feel that, from the very start,
Clara, the mother, understands

her daughter so much
and so deeply.

With her questions, she more
or less skips the answer.

That's true.

That's her strength in conversation
and her power of interrogation.

Sometimes it's the other way.

It's power but also sensitivity
that helps her understand Julia.

She remembers how it was
when she was young.

She becomes a more
likeable character

but in certain situations
she also abuses this out of fear.

It was difficult to make a family
of three actors into an organism.

It's not like making
one of those factory films

for which the actors study
their parts one day before filming

and the lines are laid down
and nothing else happens.

During rehearsals you quickly
became an organic cell.

We didn't have much time.

We had some rehearsal days.
You talked a lot to us.

Only so that you could
grow together as a family.

And it worked out.

With other actors you would’ve
done something different.

For us it was good and you
kept doing it throughout.

Like with children you
always told us stories.

Renoir called this
an "Italian Rehearsal."

Actors bring a lot of skills
with their body memory.

If you only talk about the script,
they'll just work with their skills

but if you tell stories and
don't instruct them on how to play

then the body memory loosens up and
the actors produce something new.

There's an instinctive
way to play

and that can be broadened
but less effectively

while this other thing is magic.

With these stories the acting
becomes more independent.

With these stories the acting
becomes more independent.

It just happens.

You don't think about how to play
or what next to say.

That becomes very clear already
in the dining table scene

when it looks like you've
already spent 15 years together.

We'd already spent weeks together.

It's always interesting to look at
but you can't tell there's a gap.

The very first scene we shot
isn't in the film.

There's nothing from the first day.

I've also used little from the
first day on my more recent films.

I think that with most films...

actors have other commitments,
playing a country doctor, say.

They show up for 3 days

then go on to another film and
then to some RTL junk.

The director is left all alone
with his script and his notes.

And it's the first day
of shooting

and everyone brings a certain style,
a body presence, gestures...

But they don't have
anything in common.

Later when the film is done...

I can tell with films in the cinema
which scenes were shot first.

Can you see it here?
The scenes at the monument?

Indeed. The family's unsettled and
that's why the scene's not there.

Not because the acting was bad but
because each of you were isolated

and you don't feel that
you've been together for 15 years.

I remember. There was
an emptiness on the first day.

Three trailers one behind the other

and everyone going back to theirs
from the catering wagon.

There's a loneliness
when I think of it.

The only thing that kept
it all together

is that the cameraman
and the director were ready

and able to focus on scenes
that were controllable.

They usually turn out technically OK
because they're easy to play.

What is has to grow
and become organic

is, of course, the ensemble.

The ensemble brings
so much from outside

and has a huge uncertainty that...

That was the last scene...
in the whole film.

That was the last scene...

We did the Portuguese part at the end
which was the right decision.

The last scenes were shot first
because the family's togetherness

diminishes as the film progresses.

Yes, they're becoming estranged.
They're splitting up.

Each has become isolated,
even though they're so close.

This fits in as the scenes
where the family is splitting up

were shot at the beginning

when the actors didn't have
as much empathy for each other.

We needed several takes
with this Portuguese actress

because Richy kept
laughing at her

because she had such a fast step.

She almost hit a Love Parade
level in beats per minute...

but later it was fine.

You can learn about filming guns
from American movies.

Guns aren't filmed properly
in German films.

This is a German film but guns
aren't found much in Germany.

My father didn't have one
and we don't.

We only know them
from American movies.

When German actors hold a gun
they look like German actors

who have seen an American film with
Tim Roth waving a gun around.

When they shoot, they bend back
because of the recoil

because of having seen
that stuff.

The image with passports in a
plastic bag is that of a German gun.

So that's still OK:
About at the limit...

I looked at pictures of the gun
that was found in Stammheim

and I set it up similarly.

Which gun? The one...

The suicide gun.

- Baader's?
- Yes, Baader's.

That gun was lying there
like in a German still life.

A plastic bag and a passport
and banknotes...

A plastic bag reminds
me of traveling.

You put stuff in a plastic bag
before going on the road.

Germans always buried their guns.

After the War, the SS
wrapped them in rubber

and buried them in a forest.

That was the end of German guns.

So in Germany guns have
to be wrapped up.

But Americans carry them on
their backs or under their shoulders.

When I make a film
with action sequences...

when there are fights or beatings...
I don't prepare them...

because...

Richy's somebody
who knows about that

and who does it well
because he's experienced

and you don't have to explain.

You've got a good memory.

This was the third time that
I've worked with Richy Müller

and I know that I can ask him
to direct the action scenes

because he has such
an physical intensity.

And, of course, he loves directing.

And driving cars.
He's really good at that!

I thought that you...

Oh, I love it. It was wonderful!

In fact, it was much faster
than it looks now.

At least so it seemed.

We drove fast along there
and since it's a wide angle...

- And it wasn't barricaded.
- That's right.

I think you can tell if an actor
enjoys what he is doing

whether it's shooting a gun
or driving or smoking.

I don't mean that he has to laugh

but you must be sure that he knows
how to smoke or how to drive

and I could tell that
you enjoyed driving

down narrow streets
at 250 km per hour!

More or less...

That's typical:
You can't tell how cold it was.

That annoys me.

- It looks so beautiful.
- It looks quite hot.

But it was really cold.

The Portuguese know
how cold it is.

But we Germans... like with
the American guns cliché...

we associate blue skies
with bathing suits.

Now Richy takes this
yellow sweatshirt.

It has this horrible print on.
We'll see it again later.

- The costume designer, Anette Guther...
- That was a very strange day.

Yes, we'll talk about that later.

We had a family feud that day.

It was 3 days from
the end of shooting.

Yes, not long before the end
and something erupted.

The scene wasn't written
as aggressively as that.

We planned to shoot the argument
in the car with many more set-ups

and right before you were fighting
so badly that the car almost exploded.

The doors flew open and everybody
went off in different directions.

- You had to bring us all back...
- Using the strongest moral pressure.

- You had to bring us all back...
- Using the strongest moral pressure.

Despite our professionalism,
we were all scattered about.

Julia was sitting
at the gas station.

I was in the make-up trailer.

Richy was fumbling around
with some car.

That's always his escape.

And I went to find a mirror!

Not really...
That's where I feel secure.

It seemed to me that this
great, loud fight you had

was devastating
for the crew.

We had an almost family bond

unaggressive and
without power status...

They were really devastated.

When you only have
three actors in a film

it's like a small ensemble
theater piece.

It was very family-like
and we felt very safe.

But it was like a bomb
was ticking, a family bomb

and then it exploded.

I think that's what we were
just talking about.

As you'd become
an organic family

in this scene there's
a process of detachment.

You flew apart because you knew
that in 3 days you'd be separating.

It was good too.
It's always like that.

A short time from the end:
Some conflict.

On one hand, you're glad to be free
of the others and of the role.

On the other hand, it's painful
not to have that anymore.

I noticed that I was close
to helplessness...

helplessness in front of Julia

and also as Clara in front of
her character, Jeanne.

I've rarely felt as helpless as when
you came to the trailer and said

"Hey, you're adults, actors
and professionals."

That was very strong in this film.

Despite the fact that I played
a very clear and strict character

I've rarely felt so helpless.

In the script as well, the situation
is one of terrible helplessness.

They don't have any chance,
no chance at all.

They try everything they can
within a very tight framework.

But it's only so much.

That's the problem.

It was good that
the family's narrow path

wasn't manageable
off-camera any more.

- Now we have film music...
- Shouldn't this be the Rhine?

That's a problem with
German film funding.

If you get funding but
want to set it in Strasbourg

you have to use the Elbe
for the Rhine.

The producer even wanted to bike
along the other side of the Elbe

with a baguette so as
to symbolize France.

I remember some joke like that.

Earlier we had
the first film music.

That's also something
you can't do for TV:

Drop the music score.

10 days ago, I was in a hotel
with an open-air cinema next door.

They showed this stupid film, BLOW.

I only could hear it. I couldn't
see it because of the angle.

Without a word of a lie: 90 minutes
of constant score. Unbearable!

Each note was so obvious.

I decided from the start that
we would only have source music.

That is, the music
that people hear.

For example, Tim Hardin
on the juke box

and only a tiny, tiny little theme

that is linked to the ghostly
and eternal wandering.

You hear it now for the first time.

23 minutes of film without music.
That's an achievement!

You can hear the locations,
the trees, the wind, the gestures.

Everything comes from the actors
and the props they are using

with no music added later.

For this story that's
important anyway.

You shouldn't be able to drift off.

You can only breathe with it
when it's this pure.

There are some films where
it's great to have music

and you can immerse yourself
but that doesn't work here.

You must be able to hear it.
Nowadays we're swamped.

Every cab has a fucking
radio station on.

In every elevator or supermarket
there's music.

Everything is accompanied by music.
Mankind should take a music break.

I agree.

The music we hear here
is very concentrated.

I love this...
this crowd of women.

I must say something
about the sweatshirt.

Can you believe how hard it was
to make a horrible sweatshirt?

Anette Guther, the costume designer...
We thought about The Kelly Family.

It's disgusting to go around
with The Kelly Family

but that didn't work out
for legal reasons.

We tried out a lot and then
there was this surfing bee.

We had 11 sweatshirts because
of all the action scenes.

Later the sound man bought them.

We watched the Euro Championship
game against England

wearing those sweat shirts!
Great!

At home?

At his house, sitting around
in those sweatshirts.

We looked like a group
of half-witted fans.

I was a little nervous about the
migrants being chased by the police.

- That it would be comical?
- Yes, a bit.

It's definitely a moment of fun.
In the theater people chuckle.

It's a very narrow path.
You shouldn't ridicule.

It shouldn't be slapstick.

Even so, when they chase someone,
the police always look ridiculous.

- That's how it is.
- And so they should.

Funnily enough, a policeman told us...
a real policeman...

that 3 days prior they had arrested
42 Albanian women at this very site.

They ran into that field.

That assured me that
slapstick actually exists.

This character, the lawyer...
I always imagined

that he was a weak personality,
even in the earlier days.

In a political group he would
be weak, almost an opportunist.

And opportunists in the end
always use old boys' wisdom.

Such as "Do you want
to get her circumcised?"

He's like the majority.

Most people are not as aware
as these two any more.

What they believe in
doesn't work out.

Not at all.

Just a few lines...
I think this is great.

Clara and Hans just need
three or four sharp lines

to describe their situation.

Chit chat isn't necessary.

But he goes on and on.
It's really good in that scene.

Now we come to the next t-shirt.
What's the opposite of a surfing bee?

What kind of t-shirt
should it be?

What I like in French films
is that you can tolerate

what they're wearing
30 years later.

They don't have those
pop codes on their bodies

with a half-life of
one summer season.

If you see a German film
one year on

you'd think it's 100 years old

because the jeans are shitty
or the trainers unbearable.

So we had to find something that,
in 10 or 15 years...

will still have a certain sensuality.

The girl that shows up now,
Katharina Schüttler.

There's an e-shopping site
and they make t-shirts

with mystic old names on them like
George Best or Maradona.

Hardly anybody knows who they are.
George Best... a 15 year old?

- Who's George Best?
- A pop soccer player.

He was Irish but played in England.

He was like Günter Netzer
later in Germany.

He drove this white convertible

covered with lipstick kisses
from his female fans.

He was the first
non-working-class soccer player

very delicate, with music,
sideburns, long hair

who played "pop" soccer.

He was a hedonist,
not Prussian-disciplined.

- In the 70s?
- Yes, the 70s.

There's a film you should see,
SOCCER AS NEVER BEFORE.

18 cameras film him
for 90 minutes.

You see him running around
the pitch like a ghost.

He gets the ball 3 times
and scores twice.

Avery strange film by
Hellmuth Costard.

So we have 2 t-shirts
facing each other.

That's what I like. If you have
35 days of shooting like we did

you have time to visit the locations,
stay for a while, talk to the actors.

You make discoveries
like this mirror.

You can leave the two people
blurry for a while in the mirror.

Entering this other world...

They're in another world,
albeit in the same room.

She enters the world
that she's longing for.

And now the mother
disconnects her from it.

I like this a lot.

It's something you discover.
It's not planned.

You need time for discovery.

Production in Germany
doesn't make that possible.

We had 35 days of shooting?

That's why you guys exploded at
the gas station after 32 days.

That's completely fine!

You could’ve wrecked
your hotel rooms like rock stars!

- But it was OK.
- That would’ve been expensive.

- But it was OK.
- That would’ve been expensive.

What was important was
how to film the family in the car.

There are these trailers:
The car sits on the trailer

and the camera and lights
can be set up from any angle.

But I wanted the camera
inside the cell.

And not outside.

- It's always inside?
- Always.

Didn't you shoot something
from outside but then cut it?

Only once with a trailer.
It was a huge 35mm camera.

We had to go
through the windows

while seeming to be inside the car,
so we used the trailer.

But we never shot through
the front or side windows.

That's true.

I prefer it with the camera inside.
Car rides are strange anyway.

In the 50s, they couldn't film car
rides and they did it in the studio.

The car was parked and
they moved the background.

The actor then handles
the steering wheel unnaturally

because he's simulating.

We still have this aesthetic today.

The car is pulled along
on a trailer

the camera shoots
through the front window

and inside they're talking
as if they're driving against a wall.

The driving isn't sensual.
I wanted real driving.

The rhythm of driving
and side glances at the others.

That's completely
different, for sure.

The hotel room,
another hotel room.

- Wasn't there one we didn't use?
- Yes, where you ate hamburgers.

I reduced it all afterwards

not because the movie
would’ve been 9 hours long

but because of the pressure
from inside the family.

You have to follow that
and not use all the footage.

It doesn't matter.
I'd already forgotten.

But, when watching it,
it hurts to miss scenes.

You get attached
to all the scenes.

This poem is so nice.
Where does it come from?

I made it up.

Such a poet!

You kept your own but not Heine's!

This is so nice.

I think that,
if Clara had lived a normal life

she'd have sent her daughter
to a Jesuit college.

She would’ve had
a super education.

She would even have had
her daughter baptized

to get her into
an elitist school.

She teaches her so precisely...
the pronunciation.

She does that inside
her own frame of reference.

Only very few people can do that.

She knows so much and
also feels this joy of teaching.

It's probably a little stressful
to have a mother like her.

I'd have to kick her
in the ass once in a while!

At this point in the story

the family is slowly getting
torn out of its triangle.

There's one
watching the others.

A slight mistrust. Is she asleep?
What are they talking about?

The paranoia from outside the family

is now starting to infect them
from the inside like a virus.

- What are they doing?
- It starts with Jeanne.

And later with her parents
when they find out...

When Jeanne meets people
of her own age

suddenly the world her parents
created starts crumbling.

That's why the film had to start with
contact with a person of her age.

From the very beginning
you see the family from the outside.

I like this image a lot...

because, with all the mistrust,
after 15 years

they're still able to relax
and come together.

Otherwise they wouldn't
have made it.

These shots are very short and
getting shorter as the film goes on.

Here's the next fight
over clothing.

"Over-conformity attracts attention too."
That was one of Julia's favorite lines.

I remember that
it wasn't that easy

for our costume designer
to find the right clothes.

When we had that
costume try-out

with what looked like
a used clothing collection

she had to work hard.

At the same time it's always
very difficult to find cheap stuff.

The problem with you was that
everything looks good on you.

What I'm wearing never
looked cheap.

I think she dyed that coat
but it was all from that collection.

I think she dyed that coat
but it was all from that collection.

We tried different stuff on you.
It always looked good.

It always looks so great on me.

That day was the Hanse-Marathon
in Hamburg. Remember?

Fortunately we were in the south
in the industrial area.

We searched a lot
for that intersection.

And it was a Sunday
and totally quiet.

My idea was that they travel on
the Autobahn in their white Volvo

like pathogens in
a body's blood vessels.

Die innere Sicherheit also means
something like "state hygiene."

The state must be secure and
nothing from inside or out

should endanger it.

Like with bodily health.

In biology classes there was
always a pathogen.

Then the body's own defensive system
encircles the pathogen and fights it.

That was, for me, the image.

The white car is encircled
by black cars...

which just want to get rid of it.

At the same time it has
this ghostly touch:

They create this situation
themselves through their paranoia.

We ended up calling this
"the paranoia intersection."

Again it was important
to stay with them in the car

having only one shot from
the outside to show the surroundings.

Everything else has to be
sensed inside the car.

Everything else has to be
sensed inside the car.

That claustrophobic
moment again!

We now have reference to
Moby Dick.

How did you come to use it?
Is it a favorite of yours?

Funnily, it's one of my favorite books
and it was one of Baader's as well.

In the Red Army Faction (RAF), they
used pseudonyms, all from Moby Dick.

Moby Dick is about
a white whale and a ship.

The ship represents a society
of confidants

fighting against Leviathan,
the Monster of the Seas.

And in Sir Thomas More's Utopia...

a utopian world novel
from the Middle Ages

the state is called Leviathan...
devouring the individual.

I think that was the metaphor
Baader was interested in.

Now they're talking
about Moby Dick.

By that time I only knew the
pedagogically-abridged version.

What's missing?

Like with Karl May,
there are cheap editions

where descriptions are missing.

Kids would be bored, they think.
More action.

Only dialogue and conversation.
No descriptions of landscapes.

The publisher is talking about
the wonderful start in Moby D/ck

how people are drawn
to the sea.

This is important since the film
starts at the sea

and follows along rivers
and ends...

- It doesn't end at the water.
- The field is shown like an ocean.

There was a different version...

The first draft you had me read
had water and a boat...

Yes. The first draft
ended at the sea.

Right.

There should always
have been a link to water.

They're shipwrecked...
That was my intention.

There's a philosophical essay
by Hans Blumenberg about the Left

in which he writes, "if the Left's
boat of terminology

"got wrecked on the rocks, then
they would manage to build

"a new load-carrying boat
from the drifting debris."

The film is about what
remains of the Left.

Will this family manage
to make a life from the debris?

I've been talking about this
in interviews.

I don't think I ever told
you guys.

I don't think so.

There are factions.

To come back to the fight
at the gas station

it was here on the 10th
or 11th day of production...

Between the 10th and 15th.

The family had already grown
together so much

that when Günther Maria Halmer
arrived

Richy and Julia didn't even
sit down with him for lunch.

You were the only one.

We had a long and
pleasant conversation.

There was some time before
the next set-up after lunch.

There were definitely 2 factions.
Unambiguously.

Julia first showed some interest
in somebody new

but then turned her back on him.

Pretty brutal!

Maybe half a day later...

Halmer understood that very well.
He's very smart.

I found it soothing when someone
new joined us. I enjoyed it.

You touched him in
a completely different way.

When you pull him away
from the conflict

with the jealous husband
and the mistrustful daughter

she, like all kids, is afraid that
her parents could split up...

A possible ex-lover or lover:
That's dangerous.

And, of course, they sense it.

It's terrible for Clara
that this publisher Klaus

makes a claim of fatherhood.

There's no similarity between
the two of them, he says.

I like that with books.

In this case it's my writing...

With two sentences a whole topic
can open up, without any explanation.

By saying that
they don't look alike

he tells us that you and he
were had been sleeping together.

Yes, she was with him
before Hans. It's very intimate.

This was another reason for
Gü

to build up this trust, next to
the mutual sympathy we felt.

As an actor, you don't get much time
for such things...

A short moment during a lunch break...

Again in the car,
shooting the implosion

from inside, not from outside.

One jumps out and
then the other.

And she gets out as well.

Outside they come together again
a little bit.

The camera stays in the car
for quite a while

not only because it's
the daughter's point of view

but because it's where the family
can still be together.

When they move in different directions
outside the car, it's all over.

This is when I got angry
for the first time.

And I got frustrated.

Because we ran out of material

in a scene that you played
very intensely.

In a scene that you played
very intensely.

Yes. It was the crying scene.

You had to concentrate on it

and it worked out right
on the first take.

Then we ran out of material
and had to do it again.

I could have cried.

The second time it went OK
but it wasn't the same.

You have to concentrate so much.
It starts hours before...

What he's doing here is checking
whether the lights in the house

are controlled by a timer.

That came from a crime story by one of
my favorite authors, Richard Stark.

He wrote the novels
for POINT BLANK and THE OUTFIT

He has a very rich and practical
knowledge of the American criminal.

Is it practical to know
how to do that?

I read a novel of his and
it's explained precisely

how to equip a getaway car:
A VW Beetle with a Ford Mustang motor.

In order to avoid attracting
attention to the Beetle

and because the sound of a boxer motor
is different from that of a Mustang

it has to be fitted it with mufflers.

That takes 12 pages.
It's breathtaking!

It's as beautiful to read
as the bank robbery itself.

I think cinema has to be involved
in the details of daily life.

This house is unbelievable.

Sorry for interrupting you.

Tell me about the house.
How long were we shooting there?

- Avery long time.
- At least a week.

It has its own magic or secret.

It seems that a family with
6 kids lived there once.

3 girls and 3 boys... And there
was a girls and a boys wing.

They were very wealthy and
you could see it everywhere.

But it didn't exist anymore like
the family didn't exist anymore.

A different generation.

That was 20 years ago and
the kids are adults now.

It had something sad and
depressing... scattered.

It's like with our small family.

It was a very strange
atmosphere.

When we were looking for a place
where the family could hide...

- It's huge. There's a lot of glass.
- You can also see the Elbe.

This house caught
my attention immediately.

It has a strange history.

It was built by a Nazi architect
in the 50s.

What he learned in his studies
as a Nazi architect

he tried to disguise behind "pop"-stuff
such as glass and concrete.

He tried to copy in Hamburg

those Frank Lloyd Wright
buildings from Los Angeles.

From the outside,
it looks very modern.

Inside it's more or less
like a Nazi youth hostel.

There was this office that was like a
Führer-bunker or a Führer-podium.

The father's office
and the parents' bedroom

were only accessible
down a long hallway.

The children's wings were far away.

It all felt like
some headquarters.

It was all very Nazi-like.

It was bought by a South African art
collector, who had made lots of money

but with all the glass he couldn't
hang all his paintings.

But with all the glass he couldn't
hang all his paintings.

That's why we were able
to shoot there.

It's beautiful.

That's too bad. I'd know what
to do with it: I'd try to revive it.

Something I've always loved in the
cinema history are transitions.

Transitions are not
narrative sequences.

Something has happened

and someone just starts walking

and you can see him walking.

There's no narration or dialogue
or grand music...

Here is some underlying score
somehow...

In this transition, all the senses
suddenly open up

especially here in
the Elbe wetlands.

It's called "Vierlande".

You can hear the wind and
almost smell the wetlands

and it's here that
nature becomes

part of the whole
structure of the film.

This was the very first
day of shooting...

and you can tell that Julia...

has stolen CDs before in her life.

Will they fall out?
But they don't...

I was quite a shoplifter
in my early days.

Those elastics on anoraks
are excellent.

What happens now?

She drops the orange juice.
It happened accidentally.

I think we shot it twice
without her dropping the bottle.

But this is simple.

It's great. It just happens
and it works.

You find those Socialist Party
schools all around Hamburg

with those little gardens.

Every school class has a little rock
garden. They create biotopes.

- That's what it was like there.
- And in my son's elementary school.

There's a sculpture there
by an unknown artist.

I like it a lot that the film
has this kind of modernity

and nothing Gothic or a school that
looks oppressive from the outside.

What we had in our childhood...

from the turn of
the last century.

How did you find out
about this film?

I saw it when I was
the same age as Jeanne.

It traumatized and
impressed me greatly.

- At school?
- Yes, at school.

I think it's still the only film
about Auschwitz.

Auschwitz is not shown
but one experiences it.

The narrator's voice is so strange.

- That's the German commentary.
- From that time?

You feel that's how the Nazis spoke
even though he's only narrating.

The contextual commentary
is by Paul Celan

translated from French to German.
He wrote it in 1955.

The film went to Cannes in 1955
and the Germans left protesting

that the film discredited German
history. It was a big scandal!

- They dared to do that?
- The German ambassador left.

A huge scandal!

It wasn't seen here until the early 60s
and then only in the original version.

This is an extremely
important film for 1968

because it shows what
the '68 movement was fighting:

Nazi parental ideals.

For sure. The first RAF
generation did that.

The teacher makes
Jeanne responsible

for something she has
a lot of knowledge of.

She's punished for something
she carries deep inside.

It's a very cruel scene.

This teacher... I feel that
at the end of the 70s

left wing and liberal teachers
were disappointed.

Today's kids are only interested in
laptops, DVDs, American music...

They weren't disappointed then.
Well, some were.

Now they're very disappointed.

They were young when
they came to our schools.

But that youth vanished quickly.

He is obviously a left wing teacher.

Showing a film like that and
expecting historical knowledge

means that he's a
disappointed left winger.

He would torture such a girl
more than a right winger would.

In American movies set in
big cities or in westerns

I always liked chance meetings.

The USA is 100 times the size of
Germany but still people meet

as though it were
a country of faith.

If you want to meet up again,
it happens.

Also in French films:
Paris is an endless desert...

Catherine Deneuve wants to go
to Paris and she's asked why.

"I want to see my lover."

"How? You don't know
his name or where he is."

And she says, "Lovers always
meet on the boulevards."

That was on my mind while writing.

She loves him so much that
she has to see him again.

She's walking by with plastic bags
and he's called and he appears.

That's her dilemma.

She wants to see him but mustn't.
She gets closer and follows him.

She can't take that final step
into his world.

It happens later in the fast food
place where he's working.

By chance.
She doesn't know he's there.

Sure. This time she'd only
seen him in the backyard.

She goes inside and
he follows her.

He pulls her into his world
and she can't go back.

He rescues... no...
He wants to rescue her.

There's great music, they smoke dope,
it's so wonderful there...

But she has to go back.

This is such a German ghost story.

In German myths, you find
these un-dead.

They wander through the forests,
like Rübezahl.

They aren't allowed to knock
at the forester's door

or to share the warmth of the
fireplace, even if they long for it.

This is in a lot of German literature:
The un-dead, the not-really-born.

Is it something about guilt?
Is there guilt loaded on them?

- Usually it's something like that.
- That's right.

Here the parents are guilty
and as a punishment...

But the daughter must live with it.

The film is also about love.

In all those un-dead stories,
the only chance...

There's always a kiss
or something that releases...

If somebody really loves you,
you can become body and soul again.

Right.

Now she can hear you making love.

- I think it was the last day.
- The second time.

- We did it with original sound.
- We always postponed it.

I don't think you can film sex.

I think you can, but not often.

I don't know of a single
sex scene that is any good.

I'd never shoot a sex scene.

DON'T LOOK NOW is cited a lot.

If you see it now, it's nonsense.

Back then I really liked it.
I haven't seen it in ages.

Nor me.

Today there's too much of this true
love shit, naked bodies and boobs.

You has to find something
restrained.

It's good that she doesn't watch you
through a crack in the door

Nor can she see you.
But she can hear you.

Hearing excludes her even more.

Sure.

It's a beautiful spot here...
beautiful light.

It has something cozy
but they're not really at home.

This house is so big
but it's not really structured.

Oh, it has a structure,
a very clear one.

The different wings...
You can't really see it in the film.

Filming a building is difficult,
like painting mountains probably.

In a film you should be able to live,
to orient yourself, to stay.

That's why we have
only 3 reference points:

The kitchen table, this sofa
and the room upstairs

where Jeanne withdraws to and
which was Heinrich's room in the dream.

There are no other points.

And that's enough.
Otherwise it's confusing.

It's a nice place where the parents
are alone with her in turn.

This was again the second day,
the H&M day.

At H&M you can enjoy yourself
standing in line

staring at people's necks

and seeing how they're dressed
and how their hair's done.

She looks at what
others are wearing.

And necks are so vulnerable.

This is the scene we were
talking about.

She wants to take off
her stolen clothes

and gets spotted by him.

At this moment, we realize
that he's a big liar...

that he works in a pizzeria.

It's not surprising
at this point.

You know it already because of
the home that she followed him to.

Anyway he's so nice.

I almost fell in love with him.

- Really?
- Yes. He's not my generation...

There's something
backward about me.

The nice thing about the role and
what Bilge makes out of it

is that he was never interested
in the historical side

not in the RAF
which was part of his role.

He was always of the moment:

On the set... or as Heinrich himself...
whatever was there...

the kiss or "what's in your bag?"

That's what interested him.

As an actor he was interested
in the camera.

He never asked what
was going to happen

to the film or
where I got the idea.

He didn't care. And this, of course,
is what Jeanne is searching for.

Her parents live in the past
and talk of an impossible future.

She wants to be "now."

So he's exactly the right person.

This location is like we found it
just before shooting

but again we searched for 3 days.

I try to find backyards,
those fallow spots behind buildings.

Nicolas Born called it
"The Dark Side of History."

What you can't see...

What I look for are
different types of brickwork.

Usually there's no style or shape:
Bricks here or concrete there.

Then there's a reinforced
concrete wall.

It's all just put together anyhow
and not really nice to look at.

Finding that in Hamburg...

But the railway station in Lisbon
was so beautiful color-wise.

You also did a great job
with the tiles.

In the washrooms? The problem is
that the tiles are mostly white.

- Actors look like potatoes.
- The washroom earlier was blue.

This one is red: Very nice.

Since we only found one like this

we shot in both the women's
and in the men's!

The same tiles but
different colors!

Under the diving board
at the pool...

I wonder how they lived there.
That's the cabana of the villa.

That's the sauna by the cabana.

Now there's something.

One of my favorite scenes.

I noticed some plotting
going on.

I'm only in the background
and all blurry

and I always thought that Hans
wasn't happy about this.

It was something else.

I forbade Hans Fromm,
the cameraman

to talk to the actors
about being out of focus.

If they're told that
they're out of focus

they thinks that
they're not in the frame.

But I think that someone out of focus
has a stronger presence

because you're not used to that.

But I don't want the actor
to know that in advance.

When Hans said,
"It's out of focus,"

I whispered to him
that he should keep quiet.

It was so obvious that
I felt a little strange.

I thought, "what a
weird conversation,"

but I like it a lot and
now I always pay attention.

I remember what
I told Richy here.

He said, "Why do I have look
at all this for 3 minutes?"

So I asked him, "What kind of
trainers do you wear?"

He said, "Adidas-ROM,
white with 3 blue stripes..."

I wouldn't even know that.

There wasn't a big variety then,
maybe 5 or 6 types.

The ones with the stripes
are available again.

They bring back the old models.

So I said, "Look at what
trainers look like today."

So he spent some time with
those trainers which was great.

And it says something about Hans.

Some of Julia's outside world gets
brought into their interior world.

And he's in control: "What's this?"
"I don't know this!"

And I thought that was totally right.

This was the first time that
I had filmed a family triangle.

Until now it had always been
couples and friends.

As soon as one leaves,
the others must be seen once more

to show that it's not the same.

- She's leaving and they both stay.
- It's not complete anymore.

Not like all the
other dummies do

by going back to a close-up or
by emphasizing or by commenting...

Did you say, "all the other dummies?"

It annoys me to see that:
Always the same grammar.

It annoys me to see that:
Always the same grammar.

We're waiting again.

This is the only moment when
the film leaves the family.

That's right!

I thought long about this.

There is always otherwise
at least one family member.

I thought that...

as we have Clara waiting
in that opening and looking out

the one she's expecting
can have a scene to himself.

Because he meets the hitch-hiker
who reminds him of Jeanne

it's a similar situation.
I think it works.

The scene stays in the mind
for a while.

The audience doesn't know that,
since the family isn't there.

The girl, for example, is actually
quite important.

Originally we planned this...

- Are these guys are real?
- Totally real.

- What are they called?
- The SEK Special Operations Unit.

What has changed in Germany is that
you can now film with the police.

10 or 15 years ago it was better
to have actors in uniforms.

- But the new generation...
- Didn't it work out?

Back then the police had
these "chives people."

What do you mean?

They didn't know how to move.
They were ultra-artificial and tense.

Now they love it, I guess...

They're all Til Schweiger types.

They have super bodies and
for them life is a game.

Right away he said,
"Hands up! On your knees, I said!"

He said it quite fiercely.
I was very excited.

Here he talks about how you should
respond during an interrogation.

- She does that later...
- This is a great angle.

I like it as well.

Not showing all the face
as you said earlier:

The kids in the back and
only parts of the parents.

- Sorry for interrupting.
- No, that's all right.

I watched a lot of films to see
how people in cars are filmed.

The faces of actors are treated
like value objects.

They're so expensive and
you have to see all their face.

Like in bad films...

We had a Cessna at DM 16,000 a day.
We filmed in it for 3 minutes.

A scene with 300 extras will be
on screen for 20 minutes

just because of the expense.

In paintings you find so many
turned-away countenances

which are very revealing.

It's thrilling because
it's secretive.

You don't see her here,
only her gesture.

Whatever's going on
is told through Clara.

That's much better.

Here we took away the ending
and it’s just great...

What was that?

There was a hug
that I cut out.

The whole scene climaxes
with the hug.

She doesn't sit down close and
there's quite a space between you.

But she's much more confiding.

Jeanne is more open
with her mother at this time.

And her mother opens and
starts talking about herself.

You can associate Clara instantly
with books but lipstick... not really.

I think I first used lipstick
in my mid-20s.

- You?
- I was much older than 20.

If you don't show
the moment...

If you enter a scene late
or leave it early...

it's the same as
not showing a countenance.

It's the same as
not showing a countenance.

Something is still there,
something continues to work

like in those "curved scenes"
narrated until the very end.

As a hiding place we chose
a house that's a glass bowl

which is totally wrong!

It's absurd! To be visible from
all sides while hiding there!

The light plays a big role.

Not everything is lit up
but they're sitting there

on a platform, on a stage.

Funnily, nobody ever
asked about that.

That's strange.

Why didn't they bury
themselves somewhere

or live in old NATO bunker
where they can't be seen?

We were discussing that
the lights should actually

go on and off exactly
the same way.

It's strange that there's
light in the kitchen.

The characters should move with
the light but you blocked it.

That would have attracted
attention away from the family.

That's why he turns the timer
in the basement to manual.

That they are living in a glass house
re-affirms their ghostliness.

It's as if nobody was
interested in them.

That's the worst fate.

My thought was that right wingers live
in a cave waiting to be re-awakened

and that left wingers
drive on highways

get into speed traps
and live behind glass

but they don't have a body.

They're not really visible,
they're transparent.

The same transparency
as in this house.

Like in a car, you're always
sitting in a window.

You're never closed off.

This glass cell is a much more
modern and extreme cell

than the classic cave.

The love scene...

It was a very long night
of shooting, I recall.

And Richy insisted on being there,
watching from the shadows.

- No kidding? He was there?
- Yes, at the back.

During this scene he had
tears in his eyes.

Because the two of them are
what's important about...

When I think of teenage love...

all the moments before
actually making love...

how heavy you feel...

how the arms hang down...

no clue where to lie down
or what to touch...

almost hitting each other
in the teeth...

All that to me is love.

I didn't want to emphasize
that she was losing her virginity.

You shouldn't see anything.
They hide their bodies.

I got criticized later that
this scene looks like the 50s.

- I don't see it that way.
- Why the 50s?

Well, no breasts
and prudishness.

But it's like that and
it's not prudish.

That's exactly their emotional state:
Not to show anything, just to feel...

Wanting just to be there,
there together.

That's what Jeanne's looking for.

She doesn't want to be
a ghost anymore.

That's what's shown here.

They get undressed
under the cover.

I saw the film
THE ICE STORM again

in which Christina Ricci has
a love scene like that

and I was surprised at how much
I unconsciously copied from that film.

- It's almost identical.
- I saw it but I don't remember.

All of sudden
outside it's daylight.

It's over and he gets
some water.

I think that's exactly right:
To stretch the dialogue-free

and the sensual moments

which is what commercial TV
does so intensely.

You must watch a lot of TV.

The way you speak...

Three films a year is enough.
It's because I have kids.

When they go to bed, I'm tired out
and I watch TV for half an hour.

I end up with a commercial
TV movie or whatever it's called

and then I know it's time
to turn it off.

It's great how she uses
an interrogation technique

that her father taught her:
How to deal with interrogation.

He got it from politics
and she uses it for love.

I told the critic Peter Koerte...

He also uses an interrogation
technique with that light.

It's also like an interrogation.

Both know that
it's interrogation

but he gives up very quickly.

Compared to her,
he doesn't know about it.

Once we had a project
at the Film Academy

for which we used Greek Junta
interrogation records

and adapted them
in love scenes.

It worked. Torture protocols...

How was that? Did they play
the love scenes or just talk?

We used the interrogation
techniques for the dialogue

and just changed
the situation.

Instead of, "Confess that you met
Colonel Juanes yesterday!"

We had, "Admit that
you met her yesterday!"

It worked.

The interrogation you get
from jealous lovers

can be found up to a certain
point with the Greek Junta!

That's where the idea to use
interrogation here came from.

Afterwards Julia said, "While he
took my virginity physically

"I took his innocence using
those interrogation techniques."

He's so pure
and straightforward

and is completely confused
when confronted with such things.

She does that because
she wants to leave a mark

so that he carries on
thinking of her.

She doesn't want just to go
like the other girls

who were in this bed before her.

He has to think of her
after she's gone.

That was a pretty good
interpretation.

Smart!

- Maybe I made her say it.
- No, it's great!

You were talking to us
one at a time.

Of course, we were all
after you.

We all tried to catch you
with our own issues.

That's automatic
if there are only 3 actors.

I think I ran after you guys.

Sure. But we immediately
recognized

who you were paying
attention to.

I didn't really know...

You were always giving us
your full attention.

You dealt only
with the essentials

in technical matters
and with others.

So we had you to ourselves.

One of my favorite scenes
is coming up.

You never see approaching those
that are symbols of power and control.

Such as mothers or the housekeeper
in Hitchcock's REBECCA.

All of a sudden, they're there.

I never noticed my mother
coming into my room.

I never heard her knock
or coming down the stairs.

Suddenly she was there
asking, "What are you doing?"

Like here: No approach
or path taken.

Instead a sharp outline
and dark clothing.

I think it's great!
We worked this out that very day.

It was described
differently in the script.

The light, the darkness, the forest:
This is a very mystical spot.

Something got cut out here.
I was waiting there before...

What you're describing
is an idea you had later.

We did shoot the mother
waiting in front of the home.

It was more important
that she show up out of nowhere.

That slap in the face doesn't
have any sound effect.

You hit really hard.

I hit hard?

Very hard with double hit
on the ear and the cheek!

Julia handled it very well.

I hate beating and being beaten.

But it's very good.

If it was graded it would be
a straight A plus.

You don't step forward.

It comes from way back
like a fencing foil.

Another interrogation.

I was so surprised because
we didn't change the lighting.

There are these
deeper shadows on Julia's face.

From inside of herself,
she's suddenly 3 years older.

She again imagined the slap
in the face from her body memory

and so it gave her
that maturity.

It was the slap that
she'd been waiting for

so as to be able
to break away.

I think that's how
she felt about it.

Great lines: "Can I have some water?"
"This isn't an interrogation."

With two lines everything
is made clear.

In Portugal, they were sitting like that,
just the other way around.

The parents are totally into themselves,
not looking at each other.

This is the point at which
the family falls apart.

As opposed to Portugal, where they
were at least looking at each other.

I only realized that just now.

As an actor, you doesn't always
have the whole film in mind.

- You, as the director...
- It's great that you...

It works because the character
becomes independent inside the actor.

This is a scene I like a lot
because of Richy.

This was right at the start.

I knew then that all
would be fine with you guys.

It was a very difficult day.
The technical conditions were awful.

Steady rain and extreme
technical problems...

It was April or May.

It was also very cold.

Shooting was difficult.

We were using that handheld camera
in order to make it more organic.

This is an extremely important
and demanding scene.

Despite the conditions

with 3 different set-ups
and numerous takes

you managed to keep up
the atmosphere.

I was highly impressed!

Also in a car scene
without me there.

I was outside with headphones.

- Right, you weren't with us.
- Not enough space.

Richy touched me so much here.

He's so much inside the part.

It affected me so much
to see him like that.

If a space is filled so intensely

with the three of you in a car...
it's like a pressure cabin.

You're dealing with giving up
your daughter, total separation.

Clara gets out and joins
her daughter in the back.

It's all from one position
and the car turns around.

- We don't see their faces again.
- Did she get out in the script?

We devised it then.

That's what I remember as well.

We always had time for that.

You don't know in advance
and that makes it so good.

That's why I'm not fond
of rehearsals

if they're not at
the final location

because the location influences
and impresses unbelievably.

Yes, a big influence.

Here's the family together
once more, we think.

The daughter is...

Once more Clara connects
the family members.

The father has a job to do,
like a breadwinner.

He draws out the bank floor plan.

The man-woman principle is there
even in a revolutionary cell.

She's the one keeping it together.

She is the head.

In a 60s movie, it would’ve been
Steve McQueen as Doc so-and-so.

THE GETAWAY. He's the mastermind.

She goes over to the daughter.
It's like a time check.

Let's go through
the whole Plan A once again.

For example, at 16:07 you're
standing at the exit road B4.

Once more she's binding the family
together as an emotional cell.

It's very, very good in this scene
that you're not totally authentic.

I don't mean you as Barbara Auer
but when Clara talks about...

Her vision of picking a new name

and going to a normal school.

She's not lying but...

She wants to believe it

but she's also fooling herself
and her daughter a bit.

It's like an order to be happy.

She knows from her own experience
that for Jeanne...

that a broken heart
won't heal just like that.

And the only remedy is authority.

She says, "You'll have
a new name!"

And not, "My poor girl,
you'll forget him."

But "you'll have a new name, go to
a new school and fall in love again."

These aren't a mother's
real feelings.

I thought it was very strong.

This is so sweet: Hoping
the other one can't see you.

Every child knows this.

- Hide and seek.
- It even happens to grown-ups.

Was it difficult for them?

Yes, because I didn't want
to shoot in a blocked-off area.

There were lots of distractions
with people yelling.

- And a pedestrian zone nearby.
- That's right.

What we have is that
Julia has to force this out...

this artificial criticism.

We don't yet know
about the bank robbery

and she has to make
him disappear.

So she uses what her mother
taught her: Elitist thinking.

Putting him down.

You're uneducated...
a nothing...

She hits the most
vulnerable point, like Clara

who always knows exactly
where to aim.

He reacts physically

and we have the
second slap in the film.

This is my favorite gesture
from his best friend.

"What did you do to my buddy?"

For a friend it's good
when he falls in love

and it doesn't work out.

For a few weeks,
he's got his friend back.

Girls cause a lot of disturbance.

Here a lot of people didn't
recognize you, which is great.

When you come from behind
we don't know who it is

until you get into the car.

- Bizarre.
- I like this a lot.

Very few lines.

We see that his gun is still hot,
burning through the plastic bag.

Is it like that?

In my imagination it is.

I think at the time we were
wondering about that.

It's impressive.

We learn that Clara
is everything:

Not only a teacher
but also a doctor.

She's everything that, in normal life,
we have institutions for.

It's part of her past.

It's not the first time
she's done that.

Maybe their backs are
full of bullet scars.

The moment that
she treats him...

Richy's scream is horrible.

The way that Julia covers her mouth
in horror is not acted at all.

Even at this tense time, Clara
raises the terrible question.

"What you researched was wrong.

"We were trapped because
you didn't do your work properly."

We thought a lot about the answer
to the question, "How much is it?"

Should Julia say, "DM 22,400"
or "I don't know"?

"I don't know" was
the right decision.

She's so devastated that
she can't even count to 3.

As in the history of cinema there are
already 50 million bank robberies...

telling the story only through
surveillance cameras...

When she first checks out
the bank, it was like...

That first shot from the surveillance
camera comes unexpectedly.

I always try to create a sequence
that looks strange at first

but which is made clearer
in the course of the film

with a corresponding scene.

So the film stays in the memory

and doesn't fade during
its running time.

This looks very unfamiliar.

It already was while shooting
although it was fun to do as usual.

It's strange to see
them together like this.

It's strange to see
them together like this.

It's good to have her point of view.
It's not objective.

The parents are wounded, finished.

It's her last attempt to leave them,
like a goodbye.

The parents are together
in decline and she's leaving.

Again she tries to lie,
then she tells the truth.

And to him the truth
is incomprehensible.

He has no clue.

I love it when he says,
"What kind of hiding?"

As they're from
a different generation...

we had to talk to Julia
and Bilge about things

that were self-evident
to us in our youth

but to them it was
stuff from long ago.

This film was a bit like
a journey into the past.

During production but for you
also while writing...

What happened in the past should
still be noticeable in the present.

It should just be over.

Usually flashbacks in movies
are nonsense, I think.

People were talking about it, like...

Nobody ever says that
they were members of the RAF.

What they did, one doesn't see it
but everybody knows. It's not necessary.

And the actor has to be beautiful.

What we see here
shouldn't be symbolic.

It's not symbolic of what
happened 25 or 27 years ago.

But what is left over is
the debris from the past

such as gestures, glances,
sentences and diction.

That's how they make
their way in the world.

That was important.

I think now she just says it.

I like his betrayal because
he doesn't betray her

so that he can open up
a kebab booth with the reward

but out of love.

"Leave your parents.
Do they control you?"

There was a stronger version.
Didn't you have another ending?

Didn't he even go to the police?

It was too strong.

I didn't want to have
the police show up.

And have them take over.

How can you film
the BKA in Germany?

Men in leather coats,
chain-smoking...

And the interrogation
would’ve happened there

whereas now it's kept
inside the family.

Differently...
the parents to her...

The outside world should leave
an imprint on the interior world

rather than have computer monitors
or cigarette-smoking policemen...

I wouldn't even know how to do it
or how it works...

because it bores me so much.

When he goes to carry out
his betrayal...

I always try to show the moment
of a major moral act...

and a betrayal is
a major moral act...

in a very simple way.

Without a dialogue or...
If there were a public phone...

There are different kinds of betrayal.
They're not all major moral acts.

This one is!

This one is done with the best
intentions, not like some others.

But it is a moral act.

You betray yourself or someone else
and there's some hesitation.

In history there are those
who betray

but they might not
have big secrets.

If he had to put
coins into a phone

or use a card or pick up
the receiver and say

"Can I talk to the police?
It's very important."

Then this betrayal would
be ridiculous to watch.

You'd have to show
the whole conversation.

But with just the
emergency device...

That was added later.
Have you ever used one?

- Never.
- You can find them all over.

You added it afterwards

- And that's because...
- Whoever experienced that?

Almost nobody. I never did.
Did you?

- I've never done it.
- But they're all over.

I always wanted
to throw that switch.

This is where I first saw one.
I don't even know how to do it.

Well, it's written there.

Well, we've reached the end.

That was a day full of conflicts.

This is where the fight
that blew up later starts!

A conflict that's been bottled up
for 2 or 3 weeks will burst out.

Of course it will, like a lie.
It has to come out.

Funnily enough, in the rehearsal
Julia refused to be touched by you...

Not due to physical discomfort but
because at the time of shooting...

I think it was physical discomfort.

She wanted to save it for the take
but it was a physical feeling.

What she does here is first
to resist her mother's hug

because she'd made a sacrifice.
I felt that was right.

This is what I was talking about
at the paranoia intersection.

This hasn't been done much.
I'm often asked...

- The flash grenade?
- Yes... if it's done like that.

I invented this sitting at
my computer writing the script.

Then I met with the SEK and they said,
"Yes, that's how we do it."

Strange. So it's like that.

I think they also sit
at their computers

working out their strategies
like film scripts.

We had a big issue here with
Florian and Michael, the producers.

Should we have flashing lights,
medics arriving

a helicopter landing,
a typical movie ending?

But then the idyll is broken.
And this is a broken idyll.

It has to stay like this
with the field...

She's so lonely and we don't know
what's happened to the parents.

In a way it's her re-birth.

A new beginning.

Everything around her has
to be empty and neutral

with only the strange distant
sound of a plane or a tractor.