The Black Godfather (2019) - full transcript

This is Bill's new album.

Is it your first album you've done?

Yeah, that was my first singing, period,

anywhere.

I didn't sing before.

I... I was into another thing altogether.

What did you do before you sang?

Well, I had been in the Navy

for nine years,

and then I got out

and I worked in aircraft.

I made toilets for 747 aircraft.

One of the reasons I'm here is that...

I met Clarence Avant.

I have a lot of respect for Clarence.

What he's done is a very unusual story.

That's why we're sitting here talking.

He puts people together.

And they do what they do.

How do you put together a life...

from knowing people?

I've never seen him with a tool.

His tools...

are his...

you know, ability to...

manipulate people.

I don't mean that in a bad way,

necessarily.

And if he needs to do it in a bad way,

he's probably good at that, too, you know?

Meet Clarence Avant.

Clarence's name kept coming up.

Who is this guy

that I keep hearing about?

♪ My friend s... ♪

His name would come up, Clarence Avant.

Say Clarence Avant's name,

and the doors open,

and the seas part.

Oh, man. He was too fly.

You understand me?

He talked the talk, walked the walk,

dressed the part. Played it, you know?

♪ Oh, you just keep on using me ♪

♪ Until you use me up... ♪

Clarence knew everyone.

- Everybody.

- Everybody.

He's a celebrity's celebrity.

♪ My brother... ♪

Writers, with singers,

with record companies,

with business deals...

He was just all over the place.

He was in the mix.

He finds a common ground

between people who are different.

This mysterious figure...

that everybody respected.

Like, a person from the street

to the White House, he was known.

One of the things he understands

is there are different kinds of power.

There's the power

that needs the spotlight,

but there's also the power

that comes from being behind the scenes.

He wasn't there, but he was right there.

♪ If you only knew

You'd wish that you were in my shoes ♪

♪ You just keep on using me... ♪

Clarence Avant is a complete original.

A badass and a legend.

He's a very incisive thinker.

A historian and a maker of history.

That's who Clarence is.

Clarence Avant,

from a two-room schoolhouse

in North Carolina

to the boardrooms of Motown,

and MGM, and everyplace.

James Brown told me,

"White folks just, you know, respect him.

They scared of that nigga.

Scared of him."

♪ Oh, you get in a crowd

Of high class people... ♪

His advice, per word,

is probably worth more

than just about anybody I ever dealt with.

You knew if you were making a deal

with Clarence, there was something there.

You always got the truth from Clarence.

You got it straight. You got it quick.

I don't know anybody else like Clarence.

Clarence is the final word.

He became that mentor for us all.

He became that godfather.

The godfather.

Clarence is the godfather.

♪ Oh, you just keep on using me ♪

♪ Until you use me up ♪

I can't make speeches.

That's not my... That's not my life.

I make deals.

This is interesting.

Absolutely no fucker's giving me

a check...

for doing this. I might say anything now.

That's the goal.

Well, no. Then I'm gonna...

I'mma say I don't know anything.

Mm-hm. Fortunately, there's other people

who will tell us stories as well.

You don't know anybody

who can tell my story.

Yeah, well, I don't know about that.

Clarence is one of my favorite guys.

I think Clarence exemplifies...

a certain...

...cool,

a certain level of street smarts

and savvy...

that allowed him to move

into worlds that...

nobody had prepared him for

and say, "I can figure this out."

Do you remember the first time

someone ever said you're the godfather?

People call me that.

People can call me anything.

People have called me a son of a bitch,

so what? That's part of life.

I was managing a club

in Newark, New Jersey.

Teddy Powell's Lounge.

Teddy was a concert promoter.

He had Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson,

people like that.

Teddy Powell was a legend.

So these legends...

He was like a sponge.

He absorbed the best of everybody he saw.

I was in my 20s, I guess.

So, Joseph G. Glaser came in one day,

and he owned a company

called Associated Booking.

He represented Dinah Washington.

And Dinah was rough.

So Mr. Glaser heard me argue with her,

and he was laughing, so...

And he wanted me to be an agent.

He said, "You're a great salesman."

What did I want to be an agent for?

You know, Clarence was a guy who...

wasn't looking for the job

he ended up with.

I said how the fuck was I gonna be

a goddamn agent,

and writing reports up

and all that shit, and...

You know, that's not my life.

Not at all.

But he, um, he's the guy

that really made Louis Armstrong.

Joe Glaser was

Louis Armstrong's agent, manager, and...

You know, they were together

for virtually all of Louis' life.

He managed Dave Brubeck,

Duke Ellington, Sarah Vaughan,

and Billie Holiday.

He had a lot of acts.

And he talked Clarence into getting

into show business as a manager.

Joe Glaser was tough...

He was a tough guy.

Joe was connected.

They were all Al Capone's folks.

Prohibition creates

the modern entertainment business

in America.

The underworld creates

a network of restaurants, speakeasies,

places where you can get drinks,

and they provide entertainment.

So, when Prohibition was repealed,

the structure created

by Prohibition remained.

Now we have all this talent,

and they need management.

And so, the gangsters

who were involved with the speakeasy world

are still there, and now

there's a legitimate business to be run.

I was too young

to know about Al Capone.

The fuck did I care

about Al Capone, man?

I mean, shit.

I wasn't worried about nothing like that.

No, I don't ask Mr. Glaser questions.

I just learned from him.

I think we had, at one time,

about 70% of all the black talent

in America to book.

They owned everything:

the booking agencies,

the publishing companies,

record companies, and the clubs.

Business people...

Not mafia. It's business.

Oh, please.

Please, Clarence.

Somebody was holding a guy by his heels

- out of the window,

- Remember that.

and his overcoat fell all over his head.

And I said, "What's going on up there?"

They said, "Jackie Wilson's trying

to renegotiate his contract."

- True story. Nat Tarnopol.

- It's true.

Those were some heavy days, man.

True.

Yeah, I used to

walk Joe Glaser home at night.

We would talk about people

who came in the office,

how bright they were

or how dumb they were.

Did they belong with us?

Um, did... did we want to be around them?

And Clarence was one of the favorite guys.

Clarence was an honorable,

decent, hardworking guy

who tried to do the right thing.

And, you know, in the agency business,

with managers and people like that,

it's hard to find

a person quite like that.

I think that Joe recognized this

about Clarence

and thought, "This is a guy

who should be looking out for artists."

I think that possibly, culturally,

the guy was smart enough to think,

"You know, if I'm gonna have

all of these great artists,

Louis Armstrong and Sarah Vaughan,

wouldn't it be great

to have an African American,

or a black, or a Negro...

or whatever we were at that time...

uh, be, you know, a conduit for them?"

Clarence became the manager

of Little Willie John,

and later on, Jimmy Smith.

The thing I was always

most impressed about Clarence with...

was that he once represented Jimmy Smith.

The greatest jazz organist who ever lived

by a country mile.

Jimmy Smith was a genius with the organ.

He was a creative guy,

but a character.

Very eccentric.

Quincy and I became friends

because after Jimmy made

that "Walk on the Wild Side,"

everybody wanted Jimmy.

The first time we met,

I had just convinced Philips Records

to start a record label called EmArcy.

We gave $100,000 to Dizzy Gillespie,

to Art Blakey,

to Gerry Mulligan, to Cannonball,

to Clark Terry, et cetera.

And so Clarence came in,

and he wanted $450,000 for Jimmy Smith.

And I said, "Wait a minute, man.

You gotta be crazy, man.

You're smoking something!"

And he went out and got half of that.

He didn't get 450,

but he got half of that from Creed Taylor.

We were on then.

What was your

first impression of Clarence?

Can't put that on camera.

No.

No, it was love at first sight. It was.

And respect.

It's a tremendous respect,

'cause he has no BS in him.

Not a drop.

It's having that person

that you can...

really count on.

I mean, they really count on each other,

you know.

If you talk to Quincy about, you know,

Clarence,

"Man, shit, man,

Clarence is a son of a bitch, baby.

He's a true gangster, man."

Now he used to...

Quincy'd go off on a tangent.

"Yeah, man. Shit. Him, Sinatra, baby,

that was shit."

You could never get him in the corner.

Mm-mmm.

That's part of the game, man.

If you don't ask, you don't get.

Life is about one thing: numbers.

Nothing else.

What did Tina Turner say?

"What's love got to do with it?"

Not a fucking thing, man.

That's why I tell people, life begins

with a numberand it ends with a number.

Love ain't got nothing to do with shit.

It's all about numbers. Nothing else.

I had a manager,

and he had his offices in Carnegie Hall.

Every now and then,

I would just walk to the window

and stand there and just watch life go by.

And one morning,

I looked across the street,

and there was this man...

Now mind you,

this man was dressed to the nines.

Do you hear me?

And so, he would come,

and he would stand in the entryway,

and he would look north,

and he would look south,

and then he straightened out

his shoulders,

he took his bag,

and he stepped out of that building,

and down Seventh Avenue he went.

And he was this color!

Do you hear me?

Oh, my God.

I'd never seen anything quite like it.

Every description of Clarence,

he was one of those guys.

He was a man about town,

he was all in the clubs,

he knew all the cool people.

I took him to the Copacabana...

With Lena.

And we went backstage

to try to get Diana Ross.

And they said, "Miss Ross is resting."

I said, "Resting my butt, man.

Lena Horne's out there. Get out here."

Clarence had

a little bit too much lemonade that night.

He had to get a cab

to carry me into my apartment,

15 West 72nd Street.

I was drunk for two days, man.

I ain't been drunk since.

- Oh, please.

- No, I haven't!

- Oh, please.

- That's why I put ice in my wine.

When I was dating Clarence,

there were so many,

you know, interesting places,

restaurants, and people.

And we would visit, like, Harry Belafonte.

It was, I mean,

it was one thing after another.

♪ I love you, I love you

Baby, I love you... ♪

At one time, Jackie modeled

for Ebony Fashion Fair.

Ebony Fashion Fair

was a tour that would bring high fashion

to black neighborhoods.

The Ebony Fashion Fair models

were, like, the first models

that black people really saw

on the runway.

So, for a black guy in 1960-something,

a Fashion Fair model was, like,

a big deal.

When Jackie met me,

I got into Birdland free.

I got into the best restaurants, you know,

because you knew certain people,

you know, like Mr. Glaser.

You know, hey!

He'd always have a car pick me up.

And I thought, "Who is this guy?"

And then one day,

I guess he was really trying to get...

win me over.

And for some reason, he mentioned...

how much he had paid

the Internal Revenue Service.

"Okay, so if you paid them that much,

that must mean that..."

Guess he was trying to tell me

how much he made.

Hey, I told you. Life begins

with a number, and it ends with a number.

- Thought it was important.

- Life's about numbers.

I had been on a tour with Jimmy Smith

and Dizzy Gillespie.

That's where Lalo was playing the piano.

Pianist, composer,

and arranger of Dizzy Gillespie.

We were touring around the world.

And so, when I get back,

Mr. Glaser come into his office.

"I'm sending you to California."

I said, "For what?"

"This piano player

with Dizzy wants to be in the movies."

Because when you got into TV

and television,

there was big money.

And Mr. Glaser thought

Lalo had what it takes.

And what am I gonna do

with a white composer?

He said, "The same god damn thing.

You heard, Negro.

Get the fuck outta here and go to work."

I really didn't know nothing

about movies, man,

and television, shit.

Mr. Glaser said, "Don't worry about that."

And I met every head of every studio.

He knew everybody,

but he knew the head

of music publishing of MGM.

And he... Right away, he got me a movie.

Right there.

Clarence ran the ship for Lalo.

I'm sure that a lot of white people

were very surprised

when Mr. Schifrin showed up

with his manager.

They probably thought he was his valet

or his driver.

You know, Lalo did over 100 films.

Over 100 fucking films.

Bruce Lee,

he liked my music so much,

he offered to teach me martial arts.

He made me build a dojo in my house.

I became a black belt.

Lalo's probably the main guy

who set him up in the publishing world,

where he learned

that a copyright is a gold mine.

I had told Quincy,

"I'll never get married,

never live in California."

Well, Jackie got pregnant.

So I took her out to see my mother

in Summit, New Jersey,

where I'd bought my mother a house.

I remember him calling her

while we were dating,

and he would always refer to her

as Gert.

And his mother gave a beautiful tea

for me at her home.

My mother took me in the kitchen,

and she was talking to me.

She said, "Boy, what's wrong with you?"

I said, "I ain't ready to get married."

She said,

"You used to ask me about your daddy,

and now you talkin' about

you ain't gonna marry that girl?"

We got married.

And then...

moved to California.

When he came to LA,

it was like, he was starting his life

all over again with Jackie.

He was changing his life.

♪ California soul... ♪

I was just looking for a house

'cause Mr. Glaser told me to find a house.

Baldwin Hills was the shit.

Ray Charles and Nancy Wilson lived there.

Everybody lived in Baldwin Hills.

So one day, Mr. Glaser came out.

"Looking for a house?"

"Yes, sir."

"Where?" "Baldwin Hills."

"Where the fuck's Baldwin Hills?"

I said, "That's where Negroes live."

Back then, there were no Negroes living

in Beverly Hills.

But he said,

"You find a house in Beverly."

I said, "Sorry, I can't afford it."

"I didn't ask you that."

Found a house.

♪ California soul... ♪

Glaser is the one who bought the house.

Of course, I borrowed the money from him.

Didn't have no fuckin' money.

I had a few dollars, but not like that.

He was dealing with all the studio heads

in the old days.

And got away with it.

He's just fearless, man.

Absolutely fearless.

I remember all those guys

were talking about,

"The man's holding me back."

He was in there talking to Lew Wasserman,

the mofo.

And meeting with him

and getting things done.

Lew created the agenting system,

you know. And ran the studio.

And Clarence understood

the power in connectivity

and the power in relationships.

Lew Wasserman was a good friend.

I used to meet with him,

just the two of us, have lunch.

Whatever time he had a fund-raiser

or something,

he'd call. "Clarence, I need you."

Most of the fund-raisers were held

at Lew Wasserman's house.

And I would always see Clarence

at those events.

Was he the only black person

at these events?

I'm... saddened to tell you

that that may be the case.

Clarence has that something

where he can connect with...

everyone.

And he has.

He came a long way

in a short time.

Lalo worked a lot for David Wolper.

David Wolper did documentaries.

So... I get a call

from Mr. Glaser one day.

"You gotta go meet Art Modell."

"Who the fuck is Art Modell?"

"He owns the Cleveland Browns."

"What do I want to meet him for?"

"Well, your friend David Wolper

wants to do a documentary.

And there's a guy who plays

for the Cleveland Browns

named Jim Brown. Doesn't want to be

in the documentary.

You gotta convince him."

Jim Brown was a football player.

He's a running back,

who is as big as anybody on the line.

And if you watch film of Jim Brown,

he's just brutalizing people.

Number 32, Jimmy Brown,

makes tissue paper of the Giant line.

There's no stopping the great man.

He sets the Cleveland team on fire,

and it's a five-alarm blaze!

You have this guy called Clarence Avant...

that everybody's talking about,

but nobody seems to understand

just exactly what his official title was.

I couldn't tell you now exactly what he...

Was he an agent, a manager, a lawyer?

...what he was.

And so, we're talking.

"You wanna be in the movies?"

He just looked at me.

"Yeah. You own a record label?"

I guess he said,

"Who the eff is this schmuck?"

He had a definitive... personality.

You know, he was Clarence,

and he wasn't gonna be no different

than that.

And he had his way of operating.

And I liked that.

We put him into movies,

which he did.

One of the big films was The Dirty Dozen.

Jimmy Brown as Napoleon Jefferson.

"Jefferson is any man fighting

for recognition against the odds,"

says Brown.

"I think I understand him pretty well."

He was a presence.

There was something so credible about him.

He filled the screen.

Clarence was a guy

that you really had to see

to put certain kinds of deals together.

Woman, what're they looking at?

It's the first time

they've seen a black man before.

I became the first black actor

that had a love scene

with a white actress,

which was Raquel Welch.

He does this movie

with Raquel Welch, 100 Rifles,

and there's a picture of Raquel Welch

with her arms around his big, black chest.

People are like, "Whoa!"

I got threats.

America was not indulging

with interracial love scenes

on their... silver screen.

These values

that America said it believed in...

were not being manifested for us.

Jim Crow was everywhere,

racism was everywhere.

It's a very heavy time.

It's a time of great conflict.

I never marched.

If I got hit, I'd hit back.

I'd be dead now.

There were so many question marks

at that particular time, racially,

and Hollywood had its own power base,

and here was...

an African-American man in Hollywood

that was defying

what Hollywood was supposed to be.

I don't let nothing get in my way

about anything that I wanna do.

That's the way I think.

People say, "Where'd you go to college?"

College?

Shit. Ninth grade is as far as I got.

I learned a lot

from a guy called Joe Glaser.

A lot.

When Mr. Glaser died,

I told Jackie, "We have to move."

'Cause I owed them money.

One month goes by, three months go by,

the fourth month...

Mr. Korshak called.

"Clarence." "Yes, sir."

"Your loan is forgiven." Hung up.

I don't have problems.

I have friends.

It's almost like he took a situation...

and saw there was a lot of power

in this situation...

and decided,

"Okay, I landed here,

and I'm gonna take everything here

that's here

on this little island

that I just landed on,

and I'm going to use it for good,

and I'm gonna use it to lift up my people,

and I'm going to use it

to push down barriers,

and I'm gonna use it to open doors,

and I'm gonna use it for the right thing.

I'm gonna use it for justice."

He got involved in wanting to be

an entrepreneur in his own right.

So in 1970, I launched Sussex Records.

Clarence is very proud of the name.

I don't know if he's mentioned it to you.

The two things people want more.

Think about it.

Success and sex, what else is new?

"Success," that means suc... sex... sex?

Shit!

Success and sex.

Sound like something him and Quincy

was talking about high.

He goes his own way.

He doesn't feel the need...

to fold himself into a pretzel

to be popular.

He just, you know...

m... moved to his own drum beat.

Over the course of between,

like, '68 and '71 or '72,

Motown basically moved from Detroit to LA.

And so, Clarence opening Sussex

in LA in the early '70s...

He's in the moment

where LA is becoming the new center

of black commercial music.

I was involved with him

on his formation of Sussex music.

At that time, I can't think

of very many black entrepreneurs

in the rock and roll business,

let alone on the true business side

of the music scene.

And Clarence was one of those kinda guys.

I didn't want anybody to tell me

who I had to sign,

so I... the first artist

I signed was Dennis Coffey.

- The first 45 I ever bought.

- Really?

I gave you money

from the first time I had some money.

I spent my allowance on that.

- You did?

- Yes.

Bullshit.

Dennis Coffey,

the Detroit Guitar Band, and "Scorpio."

And I had no idea...

that Dennis Coffey was white.

It just was a funky, funky, funky record.

"Scorpio" went to number one

on the black charts,

and then the black DJs found out

that Dennis Coffey was white...

and were very upset,

and they called my father

and said,

"You didn't tell us he was white.

We didn't know he was white."

My dad said,

"Who gives a shit what he is? It's music."

It speaks to the fact

that Sussex wasn't a stereotypical label.

Everybody wanted to be Berry Gordy.

But I changed that around.

So what I did,

instead of going with black acts,

I had white acts.

Wednesday,

Wadsworth Mansion,

the Gallery. The Gallery had a record

called "It's So Nice to Be with You."

Number one.

♪ Ah, it's so nice to be with you ♪

♪ I love all the things you say and do ♪

There was nobody else

doing anything like that

in those days.

A black-owned label

that had all these different things.

That's the unorthodox Clarence,

not gonna follow a script,

not gonna do what he's supposed to do,

not gonna do what's expected.

I met Rodriguez

by way of Dennis Coffey, and...

I liked his music. Liked his sound.

He saw the world was a bigger place.

He's saying that there are so many voices

that ought to be heard,

I want everybody to hear what I hear

in these voices.

He was one of my favorite artists.

But you couldn't give it away.

It took 40-some years.

And it started in South Africa.

So, long after Sixto cut his records

in Detroit for Clarence,

and everyone thought

it was over and done with,

he developed this cult following

in South Africa.

South Africa is under apartheid.

They ban the album.

The government literally...

It was against the law

to sell any of his albums.

♪ Something you call unique... ♪

The white-run South African government

was brutally oppressive.

And Rodriguez's music

was inspiring people to oppose

the policy of apartheid.

♪ As the tears rolled down your cheek... ♪

There was just

so much bootlegging going on with that.

But for the movie,

nobody would've known about it.

I watched my dad

smile through that movie like,

"Oh, finally,

everybody gets to see what I saw.

I wasn't crazy

to take a chance on this guy.

I wasn't crazy to put all my money

in for this guy.

I wasn't crazy to mortgage my house.

I wasn't crazy. Like, I was right!"

Rodriguez was, to me,

he was a brilliant writer.

So was Bill Withers.

♪ Mm-hmm ♪

♪ Mm-hmm ♪

♪ Mm-hmm ♪

♪ Grandma's hand clapped in church

On Sunday morning ♪

♪ Grandma's hands

Played a tambourine so well ♪

Bill came to see me.

He said, "I've been to all the labels.

I guess you'll be the last one."

I said, "Well, you have to wait and see."

I remember getting a taste

of Clarence's personality when...

...I went up there,

then they had cassettes,

and I played "Grandma's Hands" for him.

And he got up and ran around the desk,

and I thought,

"What kinda guy is gonna run..." You know.

You didn't hear many records

of people talking about grandmothers,

but everybody has one.

It just resonated with me, and I said,

"Wow, this guy has got it!"

He said, "Do you have enough songs

to make an album?"

And I said, "Yes."

That was it.

Oh, Jesus Christ. Bill.

♪ Ain't no sunshine when she's gone ♪

I mean, come on, man.

♪ Ain't no sunshine when she's gone ♪

♪ And she's always gone too long ♪

♪ Anytime she goes away... ♪

- Bill was not a...

- He wasn't obvious.

He wasn't an obvious star whatsoever.

And Bill will tell you that himself.

"I don't know what he saw."

Bill Withers is interesting

because he expands what...

commercial black music is,

in that Bill looks like a folk artist.

♪ I know, I know, I know, I know... ♪

He's sitting there with a,

you know, acoustic guitar on a chair,

but around the frame of him

was a really great, funky R&B thing.

♪ I know, I know, hey

I oughtta leave the young thing alone ♪

♪ But ain't no sunshine

when she's gone... ♪

Clarence is like that. He's, you know...

He's a little to the left, you know,

uh, in terms of how

he sees and does things.

And that's what makes him unique.

Clarence made

some great choices musically.

"Lean on Me" was not my choice

for a single.

I wasn't some kid.

I mean, I was 30-something years old,

and, you know,

I had a whole life behind me.

And so,

I will always be indebted to Clarence

because he provided the big leap for me.

From being

a professional aircraft mechanic

over into this world.

♪ Sometimes in our lives ♪

♪ We all have things... ♪

The person that's responsible

for your transition,

that's the key to you changing your life.

♪ Lean on me ♪

♪ When you're not strong... ♪

Those songs are just so huge.

I mean, even today. It's...

You can't really...

spend a lot of time listening to music

without hearing some Bill Withers.

- They've stood the test of time.

- Yeah.

We will never forget "Lean on Me."

That's as famous

as "The Star-Spangled Banner."

We still work every day

at what we do, right?

Still trying to do that.

After all these years.

Still trying to find that one classic

that will stand the test of time.

Clarence did it... a few times.

Well, I'm from Slab Fork, West Virginia.

What's the odds of two guys

from Slab Fork, West Virginia,

and Climax, North Carolina,

making a fuss... in Hollywood?

Yeah, I had some hit records.

You know. Hey.

I think that's the real tribute

to Clarence's ear,

is that he had a feeling

for whatever wasn't being done

at the time.

Must've been kind of a lonely place

for him.

For all that kind of brusqueness

and loudness,

it's never a one-way street with him.

He's not just talking

to be heard, but he's talking to provoke.

I wanted to do a tribute

to Smokey Robinson,

and I was talking to Don Cornelius,

but Don said,

"You need to talk to Clarence Avant."

He gave me a number, I called Clarence,

and he answered the phone.

"Hello, who's this?"

I said, "This is Danny Bakewell."

I said... He said, "Well, who is that?"

And he says... So I said,

"Well, I'm the head

of the Brotherhood Crusade."

And, you know, he said, "Well,

what do y'all sing?

What's the name... What's your group?"

"We don't have a group.

This is a civil rights organization,

we wanna talk."

He said, "I don't talk

to no civil rights organization.

I'm sick of these niggas."

You know? Then he hung up the phone.

So I was like, "Now, wha... Who is this?"

So... I called back.

And he said, "Man, I told you,

I don't want to do no civil rights.

Okay? I'm trying to make some money."

I said, "What I was doing is talking

about self-help,

you know, and mutual aid.

We have to do something for ourselves,

have to stop standing on the sidelines,

asking white folks to do something

for us that we could do for ourselves."

He said, "I like that!

That's what I'm all about!"

And as I began to know Clarence,

I realized that he was a lone stranger

in the world he was operating in,

because he didn't dance, he didn't sing.

You know, he was in the music business,

but he was so much more than that.

Right now, we turn our attention

to the Soul Train Gang,

the Soul Train Line,

and a master storyteller,

Mr. Curtis Mayfield.

You would have never heard

95 percent of black artists

without Soul Train.

Soul Train was the weapon

of the movement

that it didn't know it had,

which was joy.

Before Soul Train,

there had never been

a weekly program show on national TV

that featured black people,

for black people,

by black people.

Not even anything close to it, really.

And the amount of white people

who would experience black culture

for the first time in an undiluted way,

that was... Soul Train was that for them.

And they couldn't get enough of it.

Welcome aboard, you're right on time

for another sweet ride on the Soul Train.

The unbelievable Al Green coming at you,

right after this important message.

Haven't you forgotten something?

Hey, aren't you Frederick Douglass?

Yeah, we studied about you

in school yesterday.

About how you were a slave,

and how you took your own freedom,

and then began to fight for freedom

and dignity

for all our people.

Say, but what did I forget?

Are you gonna go out into the world

with your hair looking like that?

You have a black TV show

that is sponsored primarily

by a black hair product company.

Dick Clark had been the king

of youth culture and dance TV

since he joined American Bandstand

in the '60s.

Almost every act who would pop,

in any sense, played Bandstand.

Every new dance that became hot

around the country was on Bandstand.

So Bandstand was a big, big force

in the culture.

And Soul Train was...

really, really threatened that,

because it was a new style for America.

Soul Train, you know,

was obviously doing very very well.

And Dick Clark had...

um, unfortunately created

a competing dance show.

Hello! Thank you very much!

Let me get untangled

from this cord here.

He starts this show

called Soul Unlimited

and gets

a pseudo-Don Cornelius host on it.

Did you like Japan a lot?

Yeah, it was pretty good. Yeah.

He's on ABC. It was gonna come on

after American Bandstand.

It's gonna have a big preview.

Also, its advertisers.

It came to Dick Clark

versus Don Cornelius.

My father actually was fighting

for his life.

Dick Clark approached me,

and he wanted me to endorse it.

Now remember, I was a consultant at ABC.

That's why he came to me.

Dick Clark offered me a lot of money

to do it.

I said no.

So, what I did,

I went to New York.

I said, "If you let Dick Clark go for it,

I will put people

in the street that will..."

I didn't know what I was gonna do.

You say all that shit,

the white people got scared.

He had the ability to walk in a room,

tell people

exactly what they needed to hear.

And if you were smart, you listened.

And the decision was made bluntly.

ABC would not move forward

with Soul Unlimited.

So I won that battle.

Clarence came to my father's aid

and did his magic.

I'm Don Cornelius,

and as always in parting,

we wish you love, peace, and soul!

Yeah, I helped a lot of people, but...

my job, so far as I'm concerned,

is to move us forward, period.

That's all he's done.

That's all he's ever done, anyway.

You know, um...

just help those who need help.

But he's never forgotten, you know...

the hardships.

Never, you know, forgotten the pain.

'Cause equality drives him.

But I do think it's from his childhood.

We were poor, man.

I'm talking about poor, poor, poor.

We had chicken feet soup,

we were so goddamn poor.

Now if Quincy was here, he would say,

"Well, you're from Climax."

That's not true.

I was born in Greensboro

and raised in Climax.

There's no better place

for Clarence to come from than Climax.

Because... his whole career

has been a series of climaxes

that shook the world.

There were eight children,

and me being the oldest.

Gertrude is my mother.

I just have

all these great memories of her.

Yeah, she loved telling me stories

about her childhood, which wasn't easy.

She did domestic work

since she was six years old.

You know, it wasn't...

Her parents weren't technically slaves,

but I mean, they were.

And she was fast with her mouth,

you know, and she didn't take any crap.

They're very similar,

my father and my grandmother.

I know some people in the South

where Clarence grew up.

And I got a phone call one day

from a good friend of mine,

and he mentioned the word "sweet potato."

And Clarence's nickname is "sweet potato."

'Cause I would say,

"Everybody's got a sandwich except me!"

"Well, you ain't got one.

Get your ass outta here."

And I would be so embarrassed

because everybody would have...

And they would tease me.

"Sweet potato."

That's all I had to carry to school,

was sweet potato.

Growing up, you know,

being born in 1931 in the South

and living under Jim Crow law,

he saw a lot of things

that nobody should see.

How do I describe racism then?

The KKK was all around us.

My mother would just tell us,

"If you hear a car coming, run and hide,

lay down flat."

You know, just to protect yourself.

Was your father

ever with you during your childhood?

Nope, I was born out of wedlock.

Well, I saw him a few times.

He'd never give me shit,

so he didn't mean anything to me.

But I didn't have a father...

per se.

I had a stepfather.

Gert, she was married

to a gentleman called Eddie Woods.

And I certainly didn't get along with him.

I knew he was very mean.

I knew he was very abusive.

I knew he was physically abusive.

My mother used to get

the shit beat out of her.

And I was tired of it.

And I was like 12, 13 years old, I guess.

So one day,

I put some rat poison in his food.

So my...

brother who is deceased, Weldon...

Poochie, we called him...

Poochie said, "You better not eat that."

I had to leave.

I went to my Aunt Annie

in Summit, New Jersey.

And I had never been on a train before

or anything like that.

And after going to New Jersey,

it was a whole new world

that I had never even...

couldn't even imagine.

If he hadn't left the South...

and especially, he was in the Carolinas

in the period he was in...

the opportunity for him

to move forward was very limited.

Especially someone

who didn't have an education,

wasn't part of any black elite.

The Great Migration had started

in the '20s, really,

and '30s, and '40s, '50s,

scores of black Americans went north.

So Clarence ended up in New Jersey,

which is where his aunt lived.

She was the first of the Avants

to go north.

A few years later,

I got this job at Martindale-Hubbell.

It was a law directory.

"What did you do at Martindale-Hubbell?"

What did black people do in those days?

There was no such thing

as black executives,

so you just carried books

or whatever you were doing.

I used to watch television

or read the papers, and...

my whole life changed...

...when Emmett Till got killed.

The Emmett Till case

is one of those seminal events

in race relations in America

that really pointed out...

the disparity of justice

when it came to black Americans.

Emmett Till was a young kid.

Summer vacation, you know, went down south

with his relatives to Mississippi.

The story goes that he saw a woman,

a white woman,

who claims that he whistled at her.

And he was found

the next morning brutally murdered.

His mother brings the body

back to Chicago,

and everyone says

it should be a closed casket,

but no, she wants the world to see

what happened to her son.

The photograph of Emmett Till's body is,

you know, for kids today, it went viral.

It was the day after he was killed.

I started crying and screaming...

how badly I hated white people.

The gentleman that run the place,

his name was Mr. Nofer.

He came out...

told me to come in his office.

Everybody knew that I was fired.

And he said that they were all terrified

for him. Terrified.

Not only because it was clear

that he was going to be fired,

but, you know, you are a black man,

even in New York,

going off about white people.

In America.

I went in his office and...

I sat on the couch.

He said, "I understand your emotions."

So he said, "I'm not gonna fire you,

but you can't do it again."

That clearly changed my life

in terms of civil rights,

or whatever you wanna call it.

It just changed me.

Memphis is a confused

and shocked city tonight.

No one can believe what has happened.

It's been just a little over an hour

since Dr. Martin Luther King died

from an assassin's bullet.

Reverend Andrew Young,

King's top lieutenant,

was at the hospital awaiting word

and described the shooting.

As he came out of his room,

on the edge of the balcony,

he was shot.

And we thought a firecracker had gone on.

Most of us were downstairs

on the lower level.

And we immediately ran up and saw

that he'd been pretty badly wounded

and sent for the ambulance,

and the police, and everybody.

A man dies when he refuses

to stand up for that which is right.

A man dies when he refuses

to stand up for justice.

Yeah!

A man dies when he refuses to take a stand

for that which is true.

In the wake of Dr. King's assassination,

we wanted to do something.

Clarence had come up with the idea,

Clarence and Jesse,

of putting on a big concert,

a five-day kind of music festival.

♪ Oh, who really cares? ♪

♪ Who's willing to try ♪

♪ Oh, to save the world ♪

♪ To save our sweet world? ♪

We happen to have with us, in the studio,

a very dear friend

who is the executive producer

of that film.

He's a man

who has helped many, many careers

during his career, including my career,

and I'd like for you

to welcome him warmly,

Soul Train Gang, Mr. Clarence Avant.

All right.

- How're you doing, Clarence?

- A little nervous.

- I'm a little nervous.

- You of all people?

- Yeah.

- Clarence...

I'd like to get into how you got involved

in Save The Children,

as its executive producer.

We were able to work

with Reverend Jesse Jackson,

come up with an idea

that this film should be made

after looking at all that talent

out there,

and so, in 1972, we filmed it.

As a dealmaker,

he's the best in the business.

There's no negotiating dealmaker

in Hollywood

or New York better than Clarence Avant,

just none.

I used to say,

"Why do ya'll all defer to Clarence?"

He said, "Clarence Avant's the only one

that has the muscle,"

was the term they used,

"to get a lot of these artists."

'Cause you gotta remember,

in the '70s, now,

the mob had a lot of control

in the music industry.

I said, "He knows gangsters?"

He knows how to talk to everybody.

He's not with them,

but he knows how to talk to 'em.

I was looking for a tall, imposing man.

And in those days, everybody was bright,

darn near white, and curly-haired.

They used to call it "good hair."

And this very short,

dark-skinned brother came in,

who was very emphatic, you know,

like a guy like your uncle at...

at a reunion.

One of the things that's unique

about Save The Children,

and one reason the roster is so great,

is that it was able to bring together

the three dominant labels

in black music at that time,

which was Motown, Stax,

and Atlantic Records.

No other event ever brought all

of that talent together on one stage.

The film that resulted

featured the best and the brightest

of black acts of the day.

Jesse wanted to have a black crew.

Black this, black that, black that.

Clarence told me I was the director.

He said, "You the producer,

and you the director."

We want black folks out there

on them cameras.

♪ Oh, baby, give me one more chance ♪

♪ Show you that I love you ♪

- ♪ Won't you please let me

- ♪ Back in your heart ♪

♪ Oh, darling, I was blind to let you go ♪

♪ Let you go, baby ♪

- ♪ Not since I've seen you in his arms ♪

- ♪ I want you back ♪

- ♪ Yes, I do, now ♪

- ♪ I want you back ♪

- ♪ Ooh, ooh, baby ♪

- ♪ I want you back ♪

- ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪

- ♪ I want you back ♪

It's also got brilliant,

brillant documentary footage

of Sammy. There's an amazing section

where he comes out

to an all-black crowd in Chicago,

and they're booing his ass.

If you look at that Save The Children,

he was clearly nervous.

He was nervous

'cause they caught him hugging Nixon, man,

and they booed him.

Clarence convinced the naysayers

to give Sammy a place on the show,

so he could state his case to the crowd.

Disagree, if you will, with my politics...

Good.

Good!

Good, but don't...

I will not allow anyone to take away...

the fact that I am black.

And then sings, you know,

"I Gotta Be Me."

♪ Daring to try, to do it or die ♪

♪ I gotta be ♪

♪ Me ♪

And people are crying

at the end of this thing,

and I'm... You're damn near crying,

because this is not just a performance.

This is a man who's really saying,

"No, I am one of you, and I...

Don't judge me this way."

My father has this great sense of music.

He understands the vibration of music.

He understands that music changes

the way you feel.

He understands the power of music.

I used to call him Magic,

because he connects all of these worlds

and makes them his reality.

He's in the music business.

He's in the movie bu...

He's in the entertainment business,

but he's also in politics.

There was a guy running for Congress.

He would've been the first black guy

from the South.

I'm Andrew Young.

My preparation for politics

and my previous experience

was somewhat different

from that of most of my colleagues.

That's me in St. Augustine, Florida.

Andy really didn't know me,

and I really didn't know him.

So I call Andy.

He called up and he said,

"You Andy Young?" I said, "Yeah."

He said, "You running for Congress?"

I said, "Yeah."

He said, "In Georgia?" I said, "Yeah."

He said, "Nigga, are you crazy?"

I said, "Well, I don't know.

I probably am."

He said,

"Well, if you crazy enough to run,

I'm crazy enough to try to help you.

What do you need?"

I said, "I need everything."

I said, "Suppose I can deliver...

Isaac Hayes...

and the Rare Earth."

He said, "I don't have any money!"

I said, "I didn't ask you that."

Andy said, next thing he knows,

he's driving down the street,

there's a big billboard on the street,

saying, "Concert coming for Andy Young,"

and he's got all these artists coming.

I mean, it was just...

it was just magical.

So they showed up,

and in the pouring-down rain.

We had 30,000 people.

And that launched my political campaign.

My dedication is not just to blacks.

My dedication is to anybody

in this society

that has not had an opportunity

to enjoy all of the rights

and privileges of this society.

The one thing Mr. Glaser said to me...

You have no rights

unless you have the right to vote.

I believe in, heavily,

in the political system. Period.

His attraction to politics,

again, is first and foremost

as somebody who likes people

who have that thing that nobody else has,

and seeing that. And responding to that,

again, that way of just seeking people out

who you would be surprised he knew about.

He called me and he said,

"Do you really know this Jimmy Carter?"

I said, "Yeah."

He said, "You not gonna get me

out here supporting

some Georgia cracker..."

"...and get embarrassed."

He said, "I want to help him."

I decided to mix it up

like a scrambled egg and get involved.

You can't go just one way, one color.

You have to look at the whole system,

and I look at the whole spectrum

of this country.

When Jimmy Carter decided

to run for office,

Clarence pulled most of Hollywood together

to support this peanut farmer

from Georgia.

So I think he organized

one of the first big fundraisers

for Jimmy Carter.

You go to a Clarence Avant event,

it would be Lew Wasserman,

Quincy Jones, and Barbra Streisand,

and Diana Ross,

and Berry Gordy.

So it was the fact that he had this net.

They always had people at the house.

We were either going to an event,

or an event was at our house,

or they were always involved.

Ted Kennedy was always at the house.

He saw very clearly

that celebrity was power.

Look, I think Clarence

is somebody who cared about politics

because he recognized

that economic progress,

cultural progress, social progress,

political progress are all tied together.

Three-one pitch.

There's a drive into left field!

That ball is going, going, and outta here!

Henry Aaron has just tied Babe Ruth

in the all-time home-run parade!

Clarence called me up and said,

"Andy, you know Hank Aaron?"

I said, "Yeah, he lives

around the corner." He said,

"If he's about to break

Babe Ruth's record,

he's supposed to make some money."

He said, "I'm not talking

about his salary,

I'm talking about him having endorsements.

Will you tell him that I'm not crazy

and I'mma call him?"

I said, "Well, I can't vouch

for you not being crazy!

But I'll tell him

that you've been very helpful to me

and he oughta talk to you."

I wasn't getting any offers.

I was somewhat reserved.

I was somewhat, um...

I thought that everything

should come to me.

I explained to him, I said, "Hank,

I'm not really a sports fan. But...

I'll try to help you."

I said,

"You gotta understand numbers, man.

If you haven't made a deal

before you hit 715,

who the fuck cares?"

That was the magic number

in baseball forever.

No one's gonna break Babe Ruth's 714.

Now, Babe Ruth, you have to understand,

has become a mythological figure.

He was the Bambino.

He was larger-than-life.

Played for the New York Yankees,

which is the greatest baseball franchise

in history.

He won a lot of championships,

so there's an investment in him

as this almost-mythical figure embodiment

of baseball,

embodiment of the American Dream.

So, when this black man

begins inching closer to his record,

there's, like, a national sense of crisis.

He gets letters, I mean,

flooding into the stadium in Atlanta.

"Nigger, don't do this."

"Nigger, you'll never...

I'll shoot you on the field."

That was the hardest part.

I wasn't able to enjoy it.

Clarence, on the other hand, was...

the type of person that,

if he wanted something,

he would go after it.

He wanted me to be part of Coca-Cola.

He wanted Henry Aaron

to be part of Coca-Cola.

So what he did, he said,

"I'm gonna go up here

and talk to these SOBs," you know.

He walked up to the president's office

in Coca-Cola. Now, this is unheard of.

Mr. Austin met with me.

Right to his office,

and looked him in the face...

You look at him

nose-to-nose. And you don't say hello.

You just go,

"Niggas drink a lot of Coke."

Yep.

He said, "You got

a nigga drinking Coca-Cola here,

and he does well,

plays ball in your town.

I want him to be part of your family."

He got the biggest contract for me

that any sports figure had ever had

back in the days when I was playing.

One ball and no strikes,

Aaron waiting,

the outfield deep and straightaway.

Fastball, it's a high-fly

to the deep left center field!

Buster goes back to the fence! It is gone!

What a marvelous moment for baseball!

What a marvelous moment for Atlanta

and the state of Georgia!

A black man is getting a standing ovation

in the Deep South

for breaking a record

of an all-time baseball idol!

And it is a great moment for all of us,

and particularly for...

It was...

his connection to Clarence

that helped him to know

how to market his value.

That's been a marriage made in heaven

because Hank has probably given away

more money

to poor kids

through his Chasing the Dream Foundation

than he made in all the years he was

in baseball.

Henry Aaron would not be Henry Aaron

if it were not for Clarence Avant.

When you're young,

you don't know your worth sometimes.

He was telling him,

"Yo, your worth is this.

This is the money you should

be looking for out of this position

because they pay your counterpart,

somebody who's white, Asian, or otherwise,

that does the same thing, or less,

this amount of money."

Getting true value...

is one of those things that,

as Clarence grows,

this becomes a touchstone.

Clarence put together a tribute

to Muhammad Ali,

and he got ABC to do it,

and then he demanded that they hire me

as the director.

And they said,

"This guy doesn't direct these things!

This is a black show, yeah,

but we don't need... I mean, come on!"

So I told this guy,

"You got one week.

I'm using Stan Lathan.

You either in or you out."

He went into somebody's office

and banged on their desk

or did whatever he had to do

for me to get a call

from my agent, saying,

"Guess what, man?

They want you to direct an ABC special!"

Muhammad Ali,

the greatest fighter of all time.

And there's Clarence,

at the end of the career,

kind of giving him that last pop

that helped him solidify his reputation

as a personality,

not just a fighter.

It's gonna be a killer!

And a chiller!

And a thriller!

When I get the Gorilla in Manila!

Right on.

All right!

It's so funny that Clarence

is content to be behind the scenes,

because he just registers

so impressively and so powerfully.

And so, I think that because of that...

hunger, you know,

that people just want to be

in business with him.

You know, I just... I don't know

how I got involved with anything, man.

I just took shots.

So, in my mind, I've been like this, man.

Everything you want to be involved in.

The whole idea... of the '70s,

when I was growing up,

into the '80s was blacks wanted

to own and control...

their own institution

and their own culture.

Clarence becomes an embodiment

of that because he's a link

between the black business world,

the idea of black entrepreneurship,

and black people

controlling their environment.

He's able to work with white institutions

to get money from them,

and he's tied into black music,

which is driving a lot of the messaging

around black identity,

and black confidence, and black power.

There was only one radio station

that I knew of that was owned by blacks.

So I decided to...

expand my whatever,

and I bought a radio station.

A local radio station,

it was in Inglewood.

When I bought it, I changed its name

to Avant Garde Broadcasting, KAGB.

When you're in the sales department

at a radio station,

you're always hustling.

So you're always trying to sell that time,

that 60-second time buy.

So, I mean, you just have to go out there

and sell sell, sell.

It's still rough on black radio,

but when Clarence was in the business,

it was even worse

because none of these major advertisers

would even consider advertising

with a black station.

Even McDonald's hadn't decided

that they were going to get into

the black people business.

Overtly, Clarence is doing well.

He has Sussex Records, which is

very successful with Bill Withers.

He has KAGB radio station,

but it seems like he was overextended.

He bought that radio station.

I hated that damn thing.

I thought it was a dump.

Bill Withers did very well,

but, you know, you make money,

and you sign all these other acts,

and they sell two copies,

and... it doesn't mean shit.

One thing about the independent labels

in the '70s is that you were at the mercy

of your distributors, which meant

you weren't getting money for 3 months,

no matter how many records you sold.

And you're still also getting bills

from pressing plants,

and you're getting bills

from people who make the labels,

and then you have the fact

that he had this radio station,

and he's cross-collateralizing his money

to try and keep both afloat.

And all of a sudden...

you broke.

One day, the IRS came into his office,

snatched everything

from the records to the desk,

padlocked the joint,

and said, "You owe us money."

Boom.

It's all gone.

When we lost the radio station,

I think his regret was,

"I didn't really listen to the people

that were trying to help me,

the people who knew

how to run the radio station.

And I was too arrogant to listen."

You know, he did say...

He'll never say that, but he did to me.

I think it was probably

the first big failure that he faced,

that he didn't see an immediate solution

on the horizon.

Bill and I had fights,

but that's part of the game, man.

Arguments, not fights.

I don't fight nobody.

Then there was the business part of it,

you know?

No hard... I understand, you dig?

But...

then it became time to move on, you know?

I'll never forget it.

Bill was like...

How do I put this?

I got very emotional when he left...

Uh...

I couldn't pay him.

With Bill Withers, you know,

that was a heartbreaker.

My daughter was maybe three

when she got to know him,

and she loved him.

But he decided to leave Sussex.

I had to explain that to her, too.

It was hard for my dad to let go.

He was getting very upset

because I think he felt insignificant.

I remember my dad and I used to swim

all the time.

I'd always get on his back.

He'd be like the big whale,

and he'd swim me to the deep end,

and we'd come back,

and then he'd watch me swim

and make sure my backstroke was good.

You know, we always had a good time.

All of a sudden,

I remember, just one day...

it stopped.

My mom said to me one day,

"You know, City National Bank

may take our house."

I didn't know what that meant,

"What are you talking about?"

"Well, you know, we're... This is closing,

Sussex is closing, Bill Withers..."

everything just...

Then we lost the radio station.

Everything crumbled at once.

My house was in foreclosure.

I was gonna sell the house,

'cause I was broke

and I was gonna get the loan

and then sell it eventually.

And Jackie said, "Why didn't you tell me?"

And well,

"I didn't wanna tell you."

Just a matter of time, things,

I don't know. It's...

Um...

You don't leave.

You don't leave.

Where are you going, anyway?

And, you know.

So you're in this together, and you just,

you know, wait it out. And, um...

But you have to face it.

You can't make believe it didn't happen.

He had a lunch with me,

and he was in financial trouble,

told us he's going to have

to fold the company,

and we proved

to be "Here Comes Santa Claus."

And he was forever grateful

because it bailed him out of a hole

that he...

possibly would lose everything he had.

I was very connected to the man,

and I didn't want to see anything

bad happen to him, you know.

Little help from this friend

and that friend, and...

in time, we just pulled through.

It's a long life

in this game, you know.

You wanna keep your friends.

Very important.

And to know who your friends are,

very important.

It's my friend. Shit, I have friends.

I think Jackie

was the force that said to Clarence,

"When it comes to family, we can do this."

Since I've known Clarence

for almost 50 years,

I've known all of his kids, you know,

from the very beginning.

Clarence was a great dad.

He was a great husband.

It feels good to see Clarence

and his wife.

You know, these young cats, man,

in this business.

They look so amazing,

and they still look

like they got wedding cake on their feet.

Like they just walked

off of a soul wedding cake.

Really, he's been a mentor

and someone... and not just in business.

In life.

He actually probably saved my life

from one of the most...

It would've been

one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.

I was thinking about

doing something different in my marriage.

Like... ending it, basically.

And I called Clarence,

and he's like, "What's going on?"

I say, "Hey, man. You know,

I don't think...

I think I'mma get a divorce."

And he says, "A what?!"

I says, "Divorce." And, you know,

when you talking to another guy,

you think that he's... it's guy talk.

"I know what you're going through.

This, this, and this.

You'll be all right."

That's what I was expecting.

What I got was...

"God damn it! God damn it, Jon!

What is wrong with you?!

You're different!

You're not supposed to be

like those other guys!"

And, I mean, he cussed me up one side

and down the other.

And he said, "Get your shit together!"

And he started crying on the phone.

And he's like, "I'm hanging up!"

And he hung up.

And... it blew me away

'cause that was the total opposite...

um...

reaction that I expected,

and he made me think.

And about a week later,

we were at breakfast, and he was like,

"So, how's it going, kid?"

And I'm telling him,

I was like, "You know,

it just feels

like it's all falling apart."

And it just... flowed out of me.

And, um, he grabbed my hand,

and said, "You gonna be all right, kid.

Just take a step back

and you deal with one thing at a time."

Big Jon's like my son, man.

He's a good guy.

He checked me,

like a father would check his son.

Saved my marriage, saved my life,

and humbled me very quickly.

My wife got pregnant,

and then it was a bigger surprise

that we were having twins.

So, when the kids were born,

he called me.

"The first one I named Clarence.

The second one I named..."

I said, "Come on, man."

He said, "No, it's too late.

His name is Clarence."

He showed me a black family structure.

He showed me a black businessman.

He showed me how women

are supposed to be treated,

how you juggle a career and family.

I think Clarence Avant has one of

the biggest hearts in the universe.

I think he also goes to great lengths

to protect his heart,

and I don't think he lets

a lot of people in.

He has countless acquaintances,

friends, associates,

but very few people that I think,

as he would say, he has inside.

But Quincy Jones is one of those people.

I know him, man.

That's why I love him.

I've loved him a long time.

Eternally, man. I love him.

Quincy is very, um...

He loves to share his emotions.

He's a very intimate person,

and my father is not.

But it's very good for my father.

Ever give Clarence

relationship advice?

- Relationship advice?

- Mm-hmm.

No, but I've asked him to stop putting ice

in my Château Pétrus wine.

Yeah, I do.

Just trying to get on my nerves.

- I swear to God.

- It's all he's trying to do.

When you see Clarence and Quincy,

it reminds you

of whoever you hang out with, your homie.

Like, no matter they age,

they still busting each other's balls.

Oh, wine is just like Pepsi-Cola to me.

- Pepsi-Cola, man?

- You just put ice in it to...

Get outta here, man.

It's like ice water. Same shit.

You have to be

from Climax to think like that.

1982...

I was then a young lawyer,

fresh out of law school,

working at CBS Records

in the law department.

Universal Pictures released a film

called E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial,

which became

one of the most successful films

of all time.

Universal decided

that they would put out

a storybook box set album,

to be produced by Quincy Jones,

executive produced by Steven Spielberg,

narrated by Michael Jackson.

The only problem was Michael Jackson

wasn't signed to Universal.

Michael Jackson was signed to CBS.

Michael did something. Quincy knows.

He made a whole CD...

and didn't get permission.

No one had asked permission from CBS,

and then head of CBS was

a man named Walter Yetnikoff.

He viewed this as an act of betrayal

and a declaration of war.

He sued Universal,

got a temporary restraining order

to stop the album, um,

and all of us end up

in a big conference room.

Universal has its litigators

at the meeting.

Sony has its litigators at the meeting.

Michael Jackson's representatives

are there.

Steven Spielberg's representatives,

Quincy Jones' representatives...

And in the middle

of this big conference room

is Clarence Avant.

And I turn to the general manager

of CBS Records, and I say,

"This Clarence Avant,

what is he doing here?

Who does he represent?"

Without missing a beat, he said,

"Clarence?

Clarence represents everyone here."

So, I met with them.

Worked it out.

The rest is history.

He was able to maneuver

and resolve so many issues.

It was crazy!

I'm like, "How was this guy doing it?"

But he was that go-to guy.

Michael wanted to thank my dad

for his help with E.T.,

so a few years later,

they asked him to promote the Bad tour.

Michael wanted me to do his tour

with just him.

And I turned Michael down.

I said, "I'm not a fucking promoter."

I walked into his office one time,

and he started saying,

"Man, you know,

Quincy put me down with Michael.

They want me to do some tour."

I said, "The Bad tour?"

"Yeah, I guess."

"Is that a problem?"

You know, I'm thinking to myself,

"What a great opportunity!"

And he said,

"I don't know what to do with this."

So, you know, I said, "There's one person

who I know, who I've dealt with,

who actually knows all the ins and outs

of every building that is important

for this tour in America,

And that's Al Haymon."

So we brought in Al,

and that completely locked it down.

Inside the arena,

one of the biggest

and most elaborate stage sets ever built,

erected in just four days.

Ninety thousand packed the park,

ten thousand more

than for Springsteen, Genesis, or Madonna,

and they weren't disappointed.

♪ Bringing brighter days ♪

♪ They're all in line waiting for you ♪

♪ So know the truth

You're just another part of me ♪

Al could do everything that was required

of the position they had put Clarence in.

Clarence looked upon Al

as a high-achieving son.

You know, like,

"This is one of my mentees,

and look at what he does."

Everyone was asking,

"Are you gonna be in the record industry

like your father, follow his footsteps?"

It's... I think Al Haymon taught me,

those are some... deep, deep shoes.

It's too much. It was too much pressure.

In the wake of

the fall of Sussex Records,

Clarence dusts himself off...

...and starts another label.

Taboo, you know, the forbidden.

That which is out of reach,

that which you shouldn't have.

The unorthodox,

the unexpected, the surprise.

Classic Clarence.

And as they join us to do

their latest single on the Tabu label,

an absolute smash

entitled "Take Your Time,"

let's welcome from Atlanta, Georgia,

the SOS Band.

The first time I ever heard

the name Clarence Avant,

it was the SOS Band's...

♪ Baby, we can do it

Take your time ♪

♪ Do it right

We can do it, baby ♪

♪ Do it tonight ♪

♪ Baby, we can do it

Take the time, do it right ♪

♪ We can do it, baby

Do it tonight ♪

The '80s brings in technology,

so, literally, the texture

of the music sonically changes.

The LinnDrum,

808, all kinds of synthesized keyboards.

All this music that in 1972 was made

by human beings alone

is now made with computers

of various kinds.

The producer now didn't need

a house band.

And it becomes much more, even more so,

about the masterminds of the music.

And it tends to be one- or two-man teams.

I was managing these guys,

Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis,

and Clarence was looking

for someone to produce SOS Band.

I told him, "I've got these guys.

You know,

they're with The Time, you know,

but they're producers, you know.

They want to do some other things

outside of Prince."

He saw that these guys had talent.

He gave them the shot,

the first real shot.

And so we went in, and he said,

"You'll be producing some songs."

We're like, "Whoa!"

Our then manager/agent,

he asked her to leave.

And he said, "Now, I got a problem

with what you're asking for."

We're like, "Oh, no, Mr. Avant.

Whatever you need,

if we've asked for too much, you know,

we can do it for less or whatever."

He said, "No.

She didn't ask for enough.

You can't do a record on that.

You need some money for this,

some money for that,

you need some money for this."

You know, and we were like...

I... At that point in my life,

as a black man,

I had never met an honorable man

who would give you more

than you asked for...

and enough that you needed.

That told you everything you needed

to know about him,

- right in that first meeting.

- Yes.

♪ People always talking about ♪

♪ Your reputation ♪

♪ I don't care about your other girls ♪

♪ Just be good to me ♪

How does it feel to have

the biggest record on the planet here,

folks? Anybody wanna...

Great!

We give all the thanks to Allah,

and Jimmy, and Terry,

which came in the nick of time.

And so, Tabu became alive

after Jimmy and Terry got involved.

If you wanted Jam and Lewis

to produce you,

they had to do at least five tracks.

You got five songs, five more copyrights.

Clarence spent a lot of time with them,

schooling them,

teaching them the business.

He had a flurry of hit records.

Uh, he had the SOS Band.

He had Cherrelle.

What was Cherrelle's song?

♪ I didn't mean to turn you on ♪

♪ Didn't mean to turn you on! ♪

Then one day,

we brought Alexander O'Neal

into the studio

and sent Clarence the tracks.

He said...

"This motherfucker you sent me,

what's that motherfucker's name?"

I said, "Alexander O'Neal."

Who is he?

"He Irish or something?"

And we said, "No, he's black, Clarence."

"O'Neal! What kind of name

is that for a black man? Huh?

Yeah, well, have him come on out."

- Right.

- You know?

♪ There's never any question ♪

♪ Uh-uh ♪

♪ You will be my Saturday love ♪

♪ There's never any question! ♪

I'm like, how did he...

He said "querstion." I love that.

♪ There's never any... ♪

- ♪ Question ♪

- ♪ Uh-uh ♪

- ♪ You will be my Saturday love! ♪

- ♪ You can be my Saturday, Sunday, Mon... ♪

♪ Sunday Monday Tuesday... ♪

We knew

that all we wanted to do was make

our godfather happy.

♪ Never on Sunday ♪

♪ Monday's too soon ♪

All these records were records

I was partying hard to.

Dancing my ass off to in the clubs, so...

in my mind, he was partial man,

partial god in terms of tastemaker.

Clarence managing, uh, uh...

Jimmy and Terry

helped make the Janet album.

What're you doing? You're working!

Not anymore, Lou.

I'm gonna be a big star!

Janet was signed as a 15-year-old.

She had made a couple of records

with her father.

♪ Come give your love to me ♪

Nobody knew what to do with her,

nobody was listening.

And I think what Clarence's real gift was,

is finding people who had ears.

My father said, "Wait a minute!

I have these two young guys

from Minneapolis.

They worked on SOS.

They gave me a couple hits.

They went to number one,

and they're living in LA.

We should just put them together."

Terry!

Break it down!

Right here!

Jimmy Jam!

Very special, one man's name that...

means the world to us.

He means the world to us.

A gentleman named Mr. Clarence Avant.

And I remember after the Control album--

Clarence!

The phone was ringing more.

People were always at the house

on a Sunday.

It didn't matter who it was.

One day I'd walk in, it's Bobby Brown,

or Whitney Houston.

Everybody was coming.

Everybody just started flooding the house.

Questions, questions.

"Can you help me with this deal?"

Or, "Can you... "It just happened.

In 1983,

I went to run a place

that was then called MCA Records.

I probably had the job maybe a week,

and I get a call from our chairman,

Lew Wasserman,

and he says,

"Clarence Avant would like to have lunch

with you."

And I remember we went

to the Chinese restaurant up at the lot,

and we're sitting there talking,

and he said,

"Would you like any help

putting MCA

into the black music business?"

And I said, "Yeah, I really would."

He says, "That's good, 'cause I'm gonna

tell you what to do anyway."

And that's what I say about Clarence:

he was never looking for permission.

Which is still an unusual thing

in the culture, you know,

the idea of a black voice being heard

the way it needed to be heard.

One of the things

that's magical or interesting to me

about Clarence's career

is that there's all this history

in the '70s

of him having a record company

and stuff.

When I encounter him as a young writer

in the '80s,

it feels like he's transitioned

to another place

in terms of what his role is

in the industry.

Clarence was the guy

that could place you.

RCA, Polydor, CBS Records, Epic, all that.

And I begin to realize that

it wasn't simply that he was having

young black executives be vetted

for, like, white executives.

It was that the white executives

were listening to him.

He staffed

our entire black music label.

I, right then, figured out,

he's the godfather.

All of us would go to him

from time to time

to ask about how to get someone

that we wanted,

how to make sure we didn't lose someone

that we wanted to keep.

Because, you see,

Clarence knows everybody.

You know, he knows everybody.

And everybody could trust him.

Say, well, if Clarence said it,

it must be all right,

'cause Clarence is not going to get you

out there on something

that's gonna backfire.

What's extraordinary about him is...

he... he's got this instinct

on young people, young executives.

He's been so involved in the careers

of so many young people,

not just in the entertainment industry,

but just throughout.

He's always a person

that people say, "You should talk

to Clarence about that."

Every deal I had, every contract I got

as a record executive,

I would send it to Clarence.

What to ask for, what not to ask for,

what to push back on,

what not to push back on.

Usually it was about,

for him, it was... money.

What's the money like?

And was it on par

with what white executives were getting?

If he thought it was right for you,

it was about the right thing for you.

I'd gone

from Berry Gordy's pet assistant...

I took care of his animals...

up to his assistant, and on and on.

And I'd hit this kind of ceiling

with the company,

and that's when I heard from Clarence.

He helped me construct a deal

at Warner Brothers Pictures

that allowed me to develop television

and film projects,

and ultimately,

to take some of those things to Quincy,

which we got made.

If you wanted to get a job in Hollywood,

in the record business, or as an actor,

or with the studios,

Clarence was the guy you went to.

And Clarence was the guy

that saw that you...

were taken care of,

that you weren't, uh...

shortchanged.

You know, we're in a business

with a bunch of assholes.

You got five of 'em sitting here.

You have to understand something:

when you walk into this town,

you are green.

You have no concept...

You know the music business,

but you don't know the business of music.

Making your money is the creative side.

Keeping your money is the Clarence side.

I'mma give it to you raw.

Clarence makes sure

that you don't get fucked.

Straight up,

there's a lot of fuckin' going on

in the entertainment industry,

and if you are important

to the overall greater good,

he's gonna step in like Super Black Man.

When we went to meet him,

we also knew that...

you know, he handled Jimmy and Terry.

So, we needed to know him because...

- we wanted to be Jimmy and Terry.

- Yeah.

You know,

we wanted to follow in their footsteps.

- Exactly.

- And he was the gatekeeper.

I remember running into L.A. Reid

and Babyface.

And I remember

people thought we were in competition

with each other,

and we'd never even met

the brothers before.

But we met them, and L.A. said,

"Hey, can you introduce me

to Clarence Avant?"

And I said, "Yeah. Absolutely, we can."

First, let's just talk about

hearing about Babyface,

'cause I was trying to sing.

I was in college,

and one of my boys called me.

He said, "Man, give it up." "What?"

"You ain't heard of Babyface, dawg?"

He was terrible.

"Dawg. Look here, dawg."

I didn't put two and two together.

Babyface came from The Deele.

♪ I want to be with you

Wherever, ever you are ♪

♪ I only think of you ♪

♪ On two occasions ♪

♪ That's day and night ♪

♪ I go for broke ♪

When I heard that shit...

♪ I go for broke ♪

When I heard the motherfucker say...

♪ I go for broke ♪

I was in the mirror every day.

♪ Bro... ♪

This nigga's yodeling!

This motherfucker's making yodeling hot!

Clarence set up a series of meetings

with all of the top record executives:

Jerry Moss from A&M,

David Geffen,

Joe Smith was at Capitol Records,

and Clarence was the orchestrator.

He was, like, sort of the mediator,

the orchestrator, pulling it all together.

The next meeting was Clarence set us up

to go and see Clive Davis.

I said, "You know,

they're gonna complement, with an E,

the kind of operation that I had...

in the urban field."

Clarence, without question,

was an absolutely essential part

of how that deal came through.

The one thing that stands out was

that Clarence said,

"You must own your masters."

They were artists.

They were just singing.

You know, maybe if that's all

it was ever gonna do,

they would've lasted...

ten years.

But Clarence said, "No, this how you put

the company together.

This how you do business.

This how you take all

of this talent that you have,

open it up,

and grab other people that are talented,

and now put them out."

If you look at the run of talent

that L.A. and Face signed to LaFace...

Take TLC,

which reinvented

the vocal group tradition.

♪ Don't go chasing waterfalls ♪

Take Toni Braxton.

♪ Love shoulda brought you home ♪

And you take Outkast,

which became one of

the most innovative groups

in the history of hip-hop.

♪ So fresh, so clean

So fresh and so clean, clean ♪

You have a really powerful label.

I mean, one after another,

we became a powerhouse.

He was an advocate for...

all of the creative people, you know,

the writers, the producers, arrangers.

Motown really expanded the power

of black music as pop music.

♪ My girl, ooh... ♪

When I sold Motown, I was thrilled

when Clarence became

the chairman of the board.

Alain Levy, chairman of PolyGram,

said it's a three-year deal.

I think it was either 600...

$650,000 a year.

with a $250,000 bonus,

two-year option.

I got a piece of paper, said, "Damn!

Second mortgage is gone,

the first mortgage is gone.

I can pay Herbert and Jerry back.

Free at last."

♪ Hey, hey, hey... ♪

Alain Levy made me

the new president of Motown.

It was to bring in new life.

I had Uptown Productions.

A lot of new groups out there,

making music that I think could turn

this company around.

Well! Who are these new groups?

♪ Yo! Check this out! ♪

♪ I'm funky fresh Dr. Jeckyll

So cool up in the place ♪

♪ Uptown, Uptown! ♪

I said, "Wait a minute."

I said, "What the fuck is this?"

Levy gave Andre $250,000.

Nobody asked me.

I was trying to transfer some

of the energy of Uptown into Motown,

so that artists would want to come.

Andre and I...

disagreed on a lot of things.

End of the day, it's a culture clash.

I think we'd call it, in medical terms,

organ rejection.

They gave you a company that was broken.

It'd been losing money for 12 years.

They couldn't expect you to turn it around

in a year or two!

I had only been president for 18 months.

They chose to make me the scapegoat.

Clarence was...

He was my protector.

My dad was... "Okay,

even if he deserves to be fired,

I have to get him his settlement package.

Because, in fairness,

if he were white,

he would get a severance package.

This guy,

he needs to get a severance package."

Yeah. I had a few arguments with Levy,

so what?

He was one of my closest friends there.

I have arguments with everybody. Shit.

I got Clarence Avant backing me up.

So the meeting lasts about three minutes,

and they said, "All right. No problem.

We'll take care of that."

He will sit at his desk with a pen

and a piece of paper

and he'll write it out,

"You know what? This will happen to this.

Okay, this was this and this."

And he formulates a map

of how to resolve it,

and then he puts it into action.

What he was doing, it had to do

with seeing

that everybody was treated right.

Seeing that things were fair,

that things were just.

He's been the only one like himself.

And, you know, a combination

of Reverend Sharpton, Martin Luther King,

Malcolm X of the record business.

Sometimes, Reggie, I say to myself,

"How in the fuck did I get involved

in all this shit?"

He does so much and sacrifices,

it's amazing.

People have trusted him for,

you know, all their lives.

And, I think, for me, it's something

that was conditioned from him.

The current job that I have

as an executive at a talent agency...

uh, lends that as well.

Whenever we saw anyone in distress

after Clarence helped us,

we'd say, "'All right, Clarence.

You gotta help these guys.

You gotta help these people."

And Clarence would help.

And I'm not just talking about music,

I'm talking about civil rights.

I'm talking about anything that had to do

with the rights of people,

creativity, just being able

to do your own thing,

to voice your opinion.

Clarence gave you a place to do that...

and would protect you while you did it.

♪ How you living, Biggie Smalls? ♪

♪ In mansion and Benzes

Giving ends to my friends... ♪

He was only 24 years old,

was just starting what was expected

to be a promising career in music.

But tonight,

it's only what could have been.

The rap star had just left

the Soul Train Awards Party

and was sitting in his car

when a vehicle drove by,

and someone opened fire.

When Biggie died,

I saw another side of Clarence.

And he was really, really affected

by Biggie's death.

After Biggie's taken

to Cedars-Sinai Hospital.

It strikes everybody at the hospital,

after they get through the grief,

that they're all in danger.

And particularly, Mr. Sean Combs.

Since Biggie was on his label,

Puff was the likely next target.

Usually, Clarence gets the call

from a position of fear

because...

I called him like most people call him.

He's the one to call

when we're in trouble.

Because they worried

about people at airports

looking for him, they drove to San Diego.

From San Diego,

a flight was booked to go to Miami.

So again, this was sort of masterminded

by... Clarence Avant.

'Cause we in the music industry,

everybody's getting caught up

into something.

You know, we were young, talented people,

never been hit with wealth or power.

You know, I'm sitting here

because he kept my ass outta jail,

like two, three times.

I'm cured now, though, everybody.

I'm cured. Everything's good, you know.

Y'all can have me over for dinner.

Everything is good,

thanks to the godfather, Clarence.

I would hear,

and I dunno if I'm overstepping,

but I would hear about people

that were in very serious situations

when it came to... life.

Just life in general.

And they would say, "The only person

that can help you with this...

is Clarence Avant."

When I was...

...having difficulties

with Death Row Records

and Suge Knight,

there was a lot of call

for violence and action.

And the message that I received

from Clarence was just to be me

and to think about those kids

that's looking up to me,

and the youth that are inspired by me.

So one action that I create could be

a million actions that'll be followed.

You know, I was young and...

considered a gangster, or a thug,

or whatever you wanna call it,

and I didn't really want to hear it,

but I had to reevaluate the conversation

and say,

"Well, this man is a legend. An icon.

If he's taking his time

to deliver this message to me,

he must see something in me."

So it just made me take on

a stance of peace,

and it'll always be about peace

and be about love,

and to confront violence with love.

Clarence is the type of person

that wants everyone to do better

because he understands

that there are strength in numbers,

and the bigger that we are together,

the bigger we will be as a entire culture.

Never asked us for nothin'.

Never.

As far as monetary and stuff like that,

I just think that he does it

out of the love,

which makes me do it out of the love

with a lot of these young guys.

I'll be honest with you,

I've talked to, you know,

Jimmy, Terry,

L.A., Babyface, a lot of the guys,

so it was like,

"So, whatever happened

when he did this for you

and did that for you?

Did... Was there a cost to it?

Did you get a bill for it?"

"Nope! Never got a bill for it!"

I don't know how he made a living.

He never seemed to charge anybody.

Well, everybody comes to me for this,

that, this,

that, you know. And so,

if I like the people, why not?

He had an attitude.

Did you know he had an attitude?

He does not suffer fools lightly.

As much as he loves a good laugh

and a good story,

he does not suffer fools.

People get upset with my attitude,

but I don't give a fuck, you know.

He has this facade of being gruff,

and mean,

and "I don't give a damn!"

and "Get the fuck outta here!"

And blah, blah, blah.

All of that is just a facade.

In the middle of all that MF-ing...

is an extraordinary,

elegant man.

Part of the magic of Clarence is

there's so much more there

than what you see.

He doesn't talk in terms of emotion.

If you press him on...

"What is love, Clarence?"

"Do you love something

or someone loves you?"

He pushes back on that.

I think some people will see Clarence

and go, "Who's this gruff guy?

He's talkin' about money all the time."

That seems to be his overt way

he likes to present himself,

'cause he always talks about life

as numbers.

Well, life is about one thing: numbers.

Life is about numbers.

I told you, man.

Life is about numbers, didn't I?

- Yes, you did.

- Shit!

You come with one,

and you end with one.

When is your birthday?

I remember when he collected

the million dollars for Bill Clinton,

which was unprecedented

in what that was gonna mean

for the consolidation of a voice

inside that,

and this is how you really are heard.

You know, this is how the...

He was also completely unfiltered

about this is how this game works.

You either join a country club,

or you remain a goddamn caddy.

I'm not a fuckin' caddy.

Period.

So, Bill Clinton

and I became very close friends.

He's real quiet

at first. He's reserved.

He doesn't exactly

throw himself at you. Um...

But I just liked him.

And I just kept being with him,

and I thought, "God, this guy's special."

He has put Bill Clinton's feet to the fire

in front of an audience...

to the point

that he will ask the questions

as to why and how

we can be really comfortable

that, once you get this job,

all the promises that you're making

to this community,

you're gonna really stand by them.

You know?

You know, like,

he would just straight up be like,

"Motherfucker, what're you gonna do

when you get the job?"

You know, I like that about him.

It's never gratuitous.

But if he has something to say

that's embellished, let's say, by a...

purple word,

he doesn't hesitate to use it.

I was invited to the White House

three months after he became president.

The fuck do I care

about Lincoln's bedroom?

I didn't see Lincoln

when we went in there,

so it doesn't make any difference to me.

Fuck it, man.

So we stayed, big deal. That's all.

Nothing like that don't move me.

Clarence...

hangin' out with Bill Clinton...

is a long way from Climax.

My favorite story...

is... deeply personal.

When the Republicans were trying

to run me outta town,

Clarence Avant looked at me and he said,

"Don't even think about it...

Don't even think about it." He said...

He said, "This ain't gonna happen...

unless you give in."

He said, "Don't spend a lot of time

on this in public. Do your job.

Let people see you working.

It ain't gonna happen."

You know, it was so Clarence.

You know, it was like...

now that's maybe selfish of me to say,

but that's my favorite story

'cause, you know,

when it's raining outside,

if a guy comes up with a little umbrella,

you feel pretty good.

And Clarence, for me,

has always had that umbrella.

Not just for me,

but for anybody he thought...

needed a handout.

Anybody he thought...

needed somebody to be a wall.

The guy's a rock. In every way.

So, Clarence is viewed in the party

as being a go-to person

if not, you know,

part of that group of folks

that are called the king and queenmakers.

He's the kingmaker.

He not only is satisfied with that,

he realizes that that's where

he can be most effective,

and frankly, where he's most comfortable.

He would have parties at his home

that had great musicians

and great friends there.

And Clarence would be

at the grill barbecuing.

Jackie would be

in the kitchen hustling around.

All the kids would be playing together.

You could not be an African-American

candidate in this country

running for a serious office in anything

and not have consulted with Clarence Avant

on the way that things should be done.

The first fund-raiser I went to,

one of the first things he invited me

to was... from...

He wasn't even a senator yet...

was for Barack Obama.

He called me

about a young man in Chicago...

...named Barack Obama.

When it came time

for the convention in Boston...

uh, and I remember Barack called Clarence.

He said, "Clarence, they want me to speak,

but I'm not even prime time."

Who do you think made

that fuckin' telephone call?

To somebody in John Kerry's camp.

I don't know who the fuck it was...

He made that famous speech.

Barack Obama!

They moved Barack to prime time,

and then the whole country sees,

"No red state, no blue state.

These United States." It changed history.

There is not a liberal America

and a conservative America.

There is the United States of America.

There is not a black America,

and a white America,

and Latino America, and Asian America.

There's the United States of America.

Did I ever think

I'd see a black president? Hell no.

It wasn't in the card game.

When he said he was gonna run,

I thought he was nuts.

I had a conversation with him

and explained why I thought

the moment was right,

and I'm not sure that Clarence

actually thought I could win,

but he was nice and encouraging anyway.

There is that generational issue,

and Clarence,

like Vernon Jordan and others,

they are really the bridge...

from a time where there was

almost no opportunity

to a time where doors began to open.

And they led the way

in politics, in business,

in the arts, in saying,

"You know, make room for us."

For most of their lives, oftentimes,

that door was just open a crack,

and success was tenuous.

And I would never challenge them...

sticking with some of the folks

who'd brung 'em to the dance.

When they were both running

against each other,

I remember going to my father,

and I said, "Listen, I like them both,

and I'm not against Hillary or anything,

but I feel like this...

Something's happening with Obama,

and I really want to be involved,

they're asking me to do things, and...

But if it's gonna be weird

with the Clintons...

He was so great.

He looked at me and he said,

"You're a grown woman.

You can make your own decision."

And I said,

"I'm really not against anybody."

He said, "No, go."

And then of course, he said,

"And he's not gonna win."

And I said,

"Dad, he's gonna win."

He said he had...

No chance in hell, is Obama gonna win.

- Didn't you?

- Yep!

Nicole, in coming

on-board very early on my campaign,

in her own way,

she was expressing values

that had been taught to her

by Clarence and Jackie.

And part of that is independent thinking

and... making up your own mind, and...

uh, I... I'd like to think that...

Clarence didn't necessarily mind

being proven wrong.

Don't think he didn't rub it in.

Obama! Obama!

- Thank you.

- Obama! Obama!

Thank you!

God bless you,

and God bless

the United States of America.

After the inauguration,

I became an ambassador to the Bahamas.

You know, and then the best part

for me about the whole ambassadorship

was having my father's longtime friend,

as a Secretary of State, swearing me in.

She didn't do a lot of ambassadors.

He came to Washington, and I saw this...

I had never seen it before...

of beaming with such pride.

For him, it was like all this shit

finally came together to make sense.

I'm sure that he was enormously proud,

and rightfully so,

because Nicole served our country well.

I did most everything

I wanted to do in life,

except being Warren Buffett

or Bill Gates.

Alex, what about you?

You ever feel pressured

to live up to your father's name?

- Oh, shit.

- What's that supposed to mean?

- Well..

- Let Alex answer the question.

- It's a big deal. See?

- Every day. Every day.

- Oh, I see.

- See?

Every day.

For sure.

It was harder on Alex

because of his gender, I think.

For me,

I had a different tape in my head,

which was,

"I'm saying yes to everything

because I'm Clarence Avant's daughter,

so I'm doing it.

I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this."

But it was always

because I was his daughter.

It was, like, amazing to be raised

from my mom and my dad.

But, you know, everyone was like,

"I need to holla at your dad!"

So it's kind of...

sometimes it's kinda crazy

'cause they take a lot of time. A lot.

They're taking the father-son time away

or, you know, son-father time away,

sometimes, it feels.

My father... I'll never forget it

'cause this, like, makes me cry.

Uh. Whoo.

Um...

It's like, you know, he's like,

"You know,

I don't know how long I'm gonna be here."

It's weird because sometimes people say,

"Shit, when he goes,

who're we gonna call?"

And for me, it's like,

"Who am I gonna call?"

It's tough.

It's tough.

I told him the other day,

I said, "If you left this planet tomorrow,

you fulfilled your purpose.

It was very clear what your purpose was.

That's... It's obvious."

And he never wavered from it.

Never. No matter what business he was in.

Didn't matter if he was promoting a tour,

running a record company,

running a radio station.

He knew his purpose, head-on,

was black people

are going to move forward.

He'll take something

that was impossible and make it possible,

because he'll bring the parties together

and make them understand the concept,

the overall vision of it.

Then he makes you realize

your responsibility

to whatever it is,

and then your responsibility

to give to the next one.

Each one, teach one.

Everybody's giving.

And then the spirit gets bigger

and bigger,

and the circle gets bigger and bigger.

And you keep touching, and moving,

and shaking.

And Clarence exposed us to that world.

Look at, like, that artistic journey

and put anything in between it.

Little Willie John is all the way

over here,

and Michael Jackson's right there

in the middle,

and then there's Bobby Brown,

and then there's Alexander O'Neal,

and then go another layer,

and then you go from Quincy Jones

to L.A. and Babyface, and Jimmy Jam

and Terry Lewis, and Teddy Riley,

and the list goes on and on and on.

It's not even like he's a bridge.

He's the way!

You know, we call him the godfather

as our parent.

You know, we're all children of Clarence.

We're all children of Clarence.

And it's weird

because sometimes you don't even know

the other children of Clarence

until you see them do something

or say something.

You're like, "Wait a minute.

You don't just say that.

That came from this bloodline."

What the fuck is this?

Now I'm getting nervous.

Do you think it's possible

for there to be another Clarence Avant?

No.

There could never be another Clarence.

I don't feel comfortable

answering that question

'cause it sounds a little crazy.

I don't... I don't wanna...

That's not something

I'm not even trying to think about.

You only find one of those people.

You don't find more than one.

There will never be

another Clarence Avant.

However, his goal is to plant seeds,

so that there can be individuals

just like him.

We all trying to live by his...

the example that he set, a'ight?

Which is, you know,

share what you've learned

with the next generation.

He actually says...

he has said it to me many times.

He's like, "Baby, you gotta get

your generation to be active.

I'm tired.

This should be fun.

Oh, yeah.

- My main man!

- Hey, what's up? What's up?

Hi.

- A star is born.

- That's right!

And so today,

my man,

they gonna put your name

on the Walk of Fame.

Thank you.

Wow!

♪ Sometimes in our life... ♪

Because it isn't always about the money.

Well, he would beg to differ.

Yeah, I know. He would beg to differ,

but I would argue that

that's part of his game.

'Cause...

I believe what's most important

to Clarence Avant

has nothing to do with money.

And he will argue it all day long,

but I disagree completely.

It has to do with

how much did it help you,

help your family,

and help your people,

help everyone?

Thank you for doing what you do.

We will take this

to the next generation

and keep on going.

If he felt like you were

going out there and doing for others

as he's tried to do for you...

then I think

he would feel much better

about not getting that.

But if he feels like he did all this,

and you did nothing...

with it, and you helped no one,

then that was a bad investment.

- Yeah.

- Of my time and my love.

That's why we'll always have respect

for Clarence Avant, 'cause in the...

in the end,

he's got family. He's the first family,

and that ain't been about money,

that's about love.

Let's get that family together.

That's the example.

♪ Oh, lean on me ♪

Hey, man, I had a good life thus far.

If I wake up tomorrow morning,

and I'm Warren Buffett,

I'll have a better life.

You know, whenever I see Clarence,

he always gives me a hug,

and cusses me out,

and then ask me what I'm doing.

Know what I mean? He's like,

"Motherfucker, what are you talking about?

You know, I mean,

that's some bullshit!"

Clarence had that old,

by the bayou cussing.

"Now, you get your mother fucking ass."

You know, how you got

that inflection like that.

"You get your mother fucking ass!"

For me, he's called me

every kind of name

you can probably think of.

Clarence would be on the phone,

calling the president of a studio an MF.

What the fuck is he doing?

"What the fuck was that?

What y'all doing?"

You've never been cussed out

till Clarence cusses you out.

A Clarence curse-out was like...

"Wow, that was great."

Like Stockholm Syndrome.

"All right, motherfucker!

Let's go get paid!

Let's go get paid!"

Most affectionate "motherfucker"

anybody could give you.

Yeah.

It's almost like Jekyll and Hyde.

You can't believe that we're talking

about the same...

eloquent person that we know so well.

You know, I've been called motherfucker

so much by Clarence,

I thought "motherfucker"

was my middle...

Clarence has never cursed me out,

I am so proud to say.

Now, when y'all through with me,

how much y'all paying me for all this?

♪ To bring the light ♪

♪ To bring the light, yeah ♪

♪ I'm sorry if this is a bore ♪

♪ But I wasn't fitting in here before ♪

♪ So I toast him tonight ♪

♪ When your trajectory was off ♪

♪ And couldn't find true north ♪

♪ Just lost ♪

♪ He would say,

"Protect him at all costs" ♪

♪ Then he would hang up the call ♪

♪ But we

We can still hug him now ♪

♪ After all these years ♪

♪ 'Cause when the darkness comes ♪

♪ He's our chandelier ♪

♪ To bring the light ♪

♪ To bring the light, yeah ♪

♪ I'm sorry if this is a bore ♪

♪ But I wasn't fitting in here before ♪

♪ So I toast him tonight ♪