Paradise Lost 2: Revelations (2000) - full transcript

In 1994, three nonconformist boys in West Memphis, Arkansas were convicted for a horrific triple child murder. However, the original film shows how questionable evidence and a prejudiced community instead led to an apparent miscarriage of justice. The producers return to West Memphis to meet the Three again and the grassroots movement that has arisen to exonerate the Three. However, the father of one of the victims, John Mark Byers, is profiled as well as he belligerently asserts the three's guilt even as new evidence and his own criminal record draws suspicion on himself.

( Prison door buzzes )

I knew from when

I was real small

that people were gonna

know who I was.

I always had that feeling.

But I just never knew

how they were gonna learn.

I kinda enjoy it,

because now even after I die,

people are going

to remember me forever.

They're gonna

talk about me for years.

People in west Memphis

will tell their kids stories.

It... it will be, like,

sort of like I’m

the west Memphis bogey man.

Little kids will be

looking under their bed

before they go to bed...

"Damien might be under there."

If I had the opportunity

to speak to Damien Echols...

I would tell him that I hope

he busts hell wide open.

Period.

And that if I could

get my hands on him,

I would eat the skin

off of his face.

"Paradise lost:

The child murders

at Robin hood hills,"

this film tells the tale

of three teens who wore black,

listened to Metallica

and, perhaps as a result,

were convicted in the 1993

killing of three young boys.

Two filmmakers

with incredible access

spent almost a year

in west Memphis documenting

the trial and the town.

Everybody in the town

and in the courtroom

and on the jury

are all blinded

by their fantasies

about satanic cults.

Tom Brokaw:

The criminal confessions.

Are too many manipulated

by the police?

You've got to be

wondering if the true killers

were actually captured.

The reason

I made the, um,

"west Memphis bogey man"

comment during the first film

was because I was making

light of the situation.

I was joking.

I didn't realize that...

I mean I didn't

even comprehend

that the situation

could get this serious,

that it could actually

go this far.

Because I was thinking,

"if you haven't done anything,

then they can't prove

that you did something

you haven't

actually done."

That didn't make sense to me.

Now I see they can.

I wasn't even thinking

about it whenever I said it...

a spur-of-the-moment thing.

But a lot of people, it seems,

didn't take it that way.

Mark Byers:

You're not gonna be

no bogey man in west Memphis

because you're gonna

be dead in hell.

Anchorman:

You're watching KATV

channel 7,

the spirit of Arkansas.

Today marks

the five-year anniversary

of a west Memphis murder case

that gained national attention.

The bodies of

three second graders:

Steven branch, Christopher Byers

and Michael Moore

were found mutilated

in a ditch.

Now one of the three men

convicted for the murders,

Damien Echols,

has prompted a hearing to try

to get his conviction

thrown out.

- Norris.

- Norris Deajon: That hearing

started today in Jonesboro,

where the trial

also took place.

Damien Echols is trying

to avoid being executed

by lethal injection.

He's claiming he didn't

get a fair trial

because of misrepresentation

by his attorneys.

Four years ago an Arkansas jury

found him guilty

of murdering

three second graders

in a horrific

ritualistic sacrifice.

As our senior correspondent

Tim Sullivan reports,

he wants a new trial

and a chance to live.

Sullivan:

After a month

of investigation,

police arrested Echols

and two of his teenage friends,

Jessie Misskelley

and Jason Baldwin.

Police theorized

the murders had been

part of a satanic ritual.

In addition to local media,

the case attracted

a documentary team

that produced a film called

"paradise lost" for HBO.

As a result of the film,

a nationwide support group

has sprung up

to help

the young men they call

"the west Memphis three."

( Music playing )

Chris Worthington:

If the world would only know

that this case is

a travesty.

It is a non-case.

It is a case where someone

is in prison right now

because of prejudice.

My son Christopher was

the one that Jason Baldwin,

Jessie Misskelley

and Damien Echols murdered

on may 5, 1993,

five years ago today.

That's all we're really doing

is trying to promote the case.

You know, we're not experts,

we're not lawyers,

we're not scientists.

We just need

to keep this case alive

so people will do something.

- Reporter: And where

are you from?

- Los Angeles.

- Where are you from?

- I'm from Arkansas...

- Paris, Arkansas.

- And where are you from?

Akron, Ohio.

Mark, how do you feel about

"the west Memphis three"

support group?

To me it's like

a Jeffrey Dahmer fan club,

Charles Manson fan club,

Ted Bundy.

You could name them all.

Some people want to come to

the rescue of a savage

to get maybe their 15-minutes'

notoriety on TV.

Burk Sauls:

We get emails from

all over the world actually.

You know, everybody knows

there's doubt about this case,

but we just want

people to look at it again

and maybe question it.

They keep wanting to find

someone else to blame

to get their three off.

That's their job...

taking care of who they want;

draw suspicion;

Do their thing.

But the world knows who's

guilty and who's innocent.

Could you hold that out for me

and let me get another shot?

Worthington:

We would like

to talk about the case.

I'm here today because this is

a hearing for Damien Echols.

It's the fifth anniversary

of the tragic murders

which he was convicted for,

but we do not feel there was

really sufficient evidence

to warrant that conviction.

Yeah, they're guilty.

They're guilty as they are.

And that's an atrocity

for you to even want to sell...

where's the profit going

for these t-shirts?

It all goes to raise

publicity about the case.

Every penny of it goes

back into doing that.

Byers:

Why doesn't the profit go

to the victims' families?

The son of Sam law says

that Echols and these three

can't make any money off it...

- it doesn't go to them.

- It is going to

the victims' families.

It is. It's trying

to find out who killed

these little boys.

- They know who killed these

three little boys right there.

- I don't know it.

- They're

cold-blooded murderers.

- Sauls: In your opinion.

It doesn't... doesn't

add up that way for us.

In my opinion

and 24 jurors out of

the state of Arkansas's opinion.

Don't just say

my opinion.

These T-shirts...

they're worth trash,

garbage.

Echols:

I've been locked up six years

for something that I didn't do.

And sometimes, uh,

the things we go through

that make us suffer

are very good teachers.

I think my suffering

through this whole thing

has taught me

a very great deal.

Jason Baldwin:

I have anger sometimes,

but there's no one

to direct it towards, you know?

So I just really try

to stay focused on, uh,

just going home,

getting...

letting everybody

know that I am innocent,

that I didn't do this.

Um, I don't really understand

how they convicted me

or got me in here

or really how they did...

how they just arrested me

in the first place, you know?

But it happened,

so I just can't really

dwell on what's happened.

I've just got to work

with what's going on now.

Jessie Misskelley:

When they told me that

I was going to spend

the rest of my life in prison,

at the time,

I wanted to tell them,

"look, I don't want to do that.

Just... you might as well just

go ahead and kill me right now

because there ain't

no way I'm going to spend

the rest of my life

in prison and miss my family.

I just can't do that."

But you know, over the years

past and everything,

I done... you know,

I done got used to it,

done adjusted to it

and everything,

how the system works

and all that, you know.

I adjusted to it,

you know.

Basically...

It's getting better

and better by the day.

You know, I've just got

to adjust to it more often.

And it's getting better.

But I lived... I'm gonna

make it through it.

♪ Welcome to where

time stands still ♪

♪ no one leaves

and no one will ♪

♪ the moon is full,

it never seems to change ♪

♪ just labeled

mentally deranged... ♪

My name is Chris Worthington

and I'm from Akron, Ohio.

Debra Shue, I'm from

Murfreesboro, Tennessee.

I'm Kathy Bakken

and I'm from California.

Grove Pashley,

g-r-o-v-e p-a-s-h-l-e-y,

and I'm from Los Angeles.

Anna Macek,

a-n-n-a m-a-c-e-k,

from right outside

Houston, Texas.

I'm Ruth Carter

and I'm from Virginia.

Bill Prichason,

p-r-i-c-h-a-s-o-n,

- Stenographer: A-s-o-n?

- New Joisey.

Gregory Fleming

from Alexander, Arkansas.

I'm Marcia Ian,

m-a-r-c-i-a i-a-n,

also from New Jersey.

My name's burk Sauls

and I'm an alcoholic.

- ( Laughing )

- No, I'm burk Sauls,

b-u-r-k s-a-u-l-s,

and I'm from

Los Angeles, California.

I'd like it if you

could all tell me why...

why some of you

have come from so far?

Some, I think, have driven

as far as from California,

taken vacation time,

spent money and so forth

to come to this...

fairly obscure

in many ways... hearing.

I think I saw "paradise lost"

the night it premiered on HBO

in August of '96.

And it just made me so mad

that a modern-day

witch trial

was being allowed

to occur in America.

I mean, it's not just the fact

that they were making mistakes

and getting the wrong people,

it looked like,

but the fact that people seemed

to be reaching their decisions,

even the jury,

because of things

like emotions and prejudice

and hysteria

and their anger.

And they weren't using

their reason or common sense

or they weren't really

even applying the law.

And I just think

that's the wrong way

for things to happen

in America.

And I couldn't

forget about it.

I just got angrier,

so finally I decided

to look into the case

and I wrote Damien

and read all I could about it

and finally just

kind of stumbled upon

other people on the Internet

who felt like I did about it.

It just made me cry.

It really made me cry,

because I was thinking,

"how in the world

can they sentence

this guy to death

with what they have?

Which is nothing."

Shue:

When I went to work,

you know, and they had

"caught" the people

that had done this,

my boss at work,

she just thought it was great.

She was like, "well,

they caught those freaks

that killed those kids."

( Sarcastically )

What a relief!

Yeah, I mean,

those were her exact words...

"they caught those freaks."

And I said, "they haven't

even done the trial yet.

What makes

you think they did it?"

And she was like,

"well, look at them.

Look at the way they dress.

Of course they did it."

I thought, "golly, I'd better

stay in the house then

because it's not safe

for me out there then."

( Scattered laughter )

Prichason:

I think that's a real typical

scenario people go through.

Uh, they first join the list

is that... "I watched

'paradise lost.'

I also wore black t-shirts.

I was an alienated teenager."

And I think that might be

the initial attraction

that brings people in.

But I think what's really

important and that brings

people together

to the point where you

travel across country

to come

to Jonesboro, Arkansas,

on your week of vacation

are the more important issues

such as justice,

such as a corrupt,

incompetent police force

and justice system

working in a vacuum

here in Arkansas

when nobody's watching.

That's why I'm here.

I don't want them to think

they can operate in the dark,

kind of like

a mushroom, and grow.

No one enjoys sentencing

somebody to death.

Nobody enjoys having

to go through the...

the trial.

That's why they call it

a "trial," I guess,

because it is

heart-jerking

and difficult to deal with.

When you read those words

imposing the death sentence,

I don't know

if it was visible,

but there was a catch

in my throat.

I could feel it and certainly

you've had those feelings.

It's hard.

All right, gentlemen,

if you'd have your clients

stand, please.

All right, Mr. Echols,

the jury having found you

guilty of capital murder,

three counts in the death

of Michael Moore,

Chris Byers

and Steve branch,

you are to be

immediately transported

to the Arkansas

department of corrections,

where the director or his

duly-appointed and designated

representative will...

( clears throat )

On the 5th day of may of 1994,

will be directed to cause

to be administered

a continuous

intravenous injection

of a lethal quantity

of an ultrashort-acting

barbiturate

in combination

with a chemical paralytic agent

into your body

until you are dead.

There's never been a moment

that I've ever doubted

that we did not arrest

the right individuals.

Never in my mind.

There's never been a doubt.

I can go to bed

at night and sleep,

knowing that I did my job

and did it well.

If there was a doubt

in my mind,

I would still be

on the police department

and I'd still be

working the case.

This is detective Bryn Ridge

of the west Memphis

police department

conducting an investigation

of the circumstance

of triple homicide

case file number

9305-0-6-6-6,

currently in the office with

Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.

What occurred while

you were there?

Ridge:

What did he hit him with?

Well, I was telling them,

you know, I don't know

nothing about that.

And they just kept on

egging it on, egging it on,

egging on.

Finally I just...

just said something where they

would just leave me alone.

Finally I told them, you know,

I chased them and everything

and caught them

and brought them back.

But none of that happened.

You know, you just...

you can't kill nobody

and don't leave no evidence.

You can't do it.

You know, I don't

care who you are,

you cannot do that.

You know, there was no blood,

no fingerprints,

no nothing

at the crime scene.

You just can't

kill nobody like that.

I don't care if you're...

A genius or nothing,

you just can't do that.

Dan Stidham:

Inspector, let's talk about

the things that Jessie told you

that are just

absolutely incorrect.

Now on page 9

of his statement,

inspector Gitchell,

Jessie says that the murders

took place around noon.

How did you know

that was incorrect?

Because the boys were...

the young boys were

still in school.

Did at any time when he was

telling you these things

that you knew

were incorrect,

did it ever occur

to you that what he was

telling you was false?

His entire story was false?

Uh, Jessie simply

got confused.

This is a classic example

of how police can produce

a false confession.

They threaten Jessie.

They tell him that

he knows things,

that they know he knows.

They use the polygraph.

They tell him that he's flunked

the polygraph when he didn't.

They use that to convince him

that his situation is hopeless.

They upset him enormously

by showing him these

horrible photographs

of these dead children.

And then they give him

the option

of being with the bad guys,

with the consequences of that,

or joining the police.

And at this point,

all he wants to do

is get out

from under the pressure.

So now all he has to do is

agree with what they tell him

and that's how

they set it up.

Initially, they're going

for a false witness statement.

But once they have him talking,

it's not difficult

to get him to agree to things

that will make him appear to be

a participant

in the crime.

John Fogleman:

Out of the 100 or more people

that y'all talked to,

are you aware of anybody

other than the defendant

who told you

one of the victims

that had their

genitals removed

and one of them had cuts

to the side of the face

and there had been some

grabbing of the ears?

Uh, there was no one else

that mentioned

those particular injuries.

Fogleman:

Was there any kind

of emotional response?

He had tears

coming down his eyes.

- Had you all yelled at him

or been mean to him...

- No sir.

...or threatened him

or promised him anything?

Done any of those things?

- None of those things

happened whatsoever.

- All right.

( Music playing )

I was down at the prison

a couple weeks ago

seeing Jessie

and he tells me that you

come down about every Sunday.

Yeah, I try to boost

his morale up.

Just hang in there for me.

We're doing everything we can.

Sometimes it seems that

things are kind of progressing

at a snail's pace

but that's unfortunately

the wheels of justice.

- There is no justice.

- Well, I got to tell you

that I had to ask myself

whether I still wanted

to be a lawyer.

But it just lit

a bigger fire under me

and made me want to get up

and fight that much more.

Well, they didn't let you

present your case

up there in court,

I noticed that.

But we've got to have hope.

Without hope we don't

have a chance.

I made a promise

to that kid of yours

that I'd never

give up the fight

and I don't

intend to do that.

Maybe the quickest way to get

Jessie out of that prison

is to catch a killer.

Yeah well, I think everybody

knows who done it.

But the... ain't nobody

saying anything.

Leveri

if you wouldn't mind,

can you all... you three,

tell us how...

what the Genesis of the list

and the website and everything.

How you came to create it?

I saw the movie...

I got an advance screener

because I work for

an advertising agency.

And we worked

on the key art,

which is like

the movie poster art.

So I saw it about

three or four months

before it actually aired.

We saw the film together,

Kathy and I.

And we immediately saw it

and said, "oh, gosh, burk

would probably like this."

( Laughter )

Actually not like it.

But, uh... so we

handed it over to burk

and then burk took a copy

of it and watched it.

And I think about

four days later,

not only had burk

seen the film,

he'd already found a book

in a used bookstore

on the case.

And he called us up

and he says, "these guys

are innocent."

Sauls:

I got on this crusade

to find every scrap

of information I could.

And we got all the...

all the documents we could

get our hands on.

And it became

an obsessive type of...

like a collector's

type thing

where we were each...

we'd get another

tiny scrap of information

and we'd add it

to the archive on the web.

And we decided

to make it public too.

We wanted it to not just be

in our own little

filing cabinets,

but we said, "let's

give this to everybody."

After a while it

became apparent that

no one had actually

looked at evidence

and put together a scenario

that made sense.

And so we started doing more

research about, you know,

investigation and homicide

and forensics.

And we came across a website

that actually gave forensic

and investigative classes,

like criminal profiling

and homicide investigation

and that kind of thing.

So I thought it would help me

in understanding the case more

if I took these classes.

So I just started taking

the classes and...

And in doing so

I read all the articles

that Brent Turvey

had written.

He's the guy that

gives the classes through

"knowledge solutions"

and I liked

his philosophy.

It made sense.

It was about evidence.

It was criminal profiling

as it relates to evidence.

And I thought,

maybe this is what we need,

someone who could

take this evidence

and tell us what happened.

Because that's all

we want to know...

guilty or innocent

I just want to know.

So I called him up and I started

explaining the case

and he just said, "stop,"

you know, "get the lawyers.

Tell them to call me."

And so I did and then

the rest is history.

( Door opens, closes )

- Stidham: Hey.

- Man: Hi, Dan, how are you?

- Nice to meet you.

- Nice to meet you.

This is my wife

and business partner Barbara.

- Nice to meet you, Barbara.

- Nice to meet you.

- She's taking my notes for me

so our hands can be free.

- Great.

What if I were to put you

over there by the easel

so you could use that?

Great! An assortment

of markers here for me.

I want to really thank you

for agreeing to meet me here

and talk about this.

I... I've been working

on this case for a long time.

It's been over four years.

And when I got

the email from Kathy

at the support fund,

for the first time

in a long time

I got to see

a ray of hope

for some justice and maybe

having this thing analyzed

and you don't how much

it means to us.

We didn't have

a budget to work with.

We didn't have access

to this kind of information.

We tried to get it,

but we just couldn't...

we couldn't

accomplish it.

And it's just...

uh, it's really...

it's really good to be able

to look at this stuff now

and analyze it,

even if it is four years later.

- Do you want to go right

and look at the...

- sure.

Okay, I brought

the crime scene photos.

In every other case

that I've worked on,

the crime scene photos

are always these very...

they're like

endangered species.

You know, you never see them.

The actual crime scene photos

are kind of spirited away

and what the defense

usually gets is nothing

or color photocopies

that are really bad.

In this case, I was

very surprised to receive

all of the actual

crime scene photos.

One of the cornerstones

of the prosecution's case

- was that this was

a ritualistic, satanic...

- Right.

...cult homicide.

Do you see anything here

from the crime-scene

characteristics

which would be

indicative

of satanism

or ritualistic homicide

by a cult or anything

of that nature?

Most certainly not.

There's a definite lack

of ritual element to this crime.

It's very, uh...

it's very unfocused

in terms of the nature

of the injuries.

It's very much

a reactionary type

of behavior, not ritual.

And these behaviors that we

see in this crime take time,

so it would not be

plausible

for a serial killer

or a satanic cult group

to grab these victims

because of the fact that

they are going to be missed

almost immediately

from the moment

that they are abducted.

And whoever dumped

the bodies here

knew that this place was here.

He knows the area.

This is not someplace

that you can just find being

a trucker off the highway.

You've got to know it's here.

You've got to be able

to walk in, dump the bodies

and walk out.

You've got to know

that this is available.

It's very clear to me

from the evidence

that, uh... but we can get

into that later...

that the offender

did know the victims.

( Phone ringing )

Hello?

Computer voice:

This is the MCI operator.

I have a collect call from...

- Damien: Damien...

- ...Who is in an Arkansas

correctional facility.

All calls other than

properly-placed attorney calls

will be monitored

and recorded.

Bakken:

All right.

- Damien: Am I on speakerphone?

- Bakken: Yeah. Yep.

- Awwww!

- Pashley: How you doing?

- Damien: All right.

- ( Typing )

Sauls:

So there's like about 15 people

saying "hello" right now.

- Pashley: Hello, Damien.

- Hello, grove.

Everybody's

saying "hello" now.

"Hi, hello, hello, hi."

How many of them

is it on there now?

25.

I just put in the call

for questions on the

discussion group.

Okay.

Beastie wants to know:

"I teach at a university

and tell my students

about your case.

What would you most like

them to know about you?"

That I am neither

a freak nor a monster.

Um, that I was basically

a victim of circumstance,

that anyone

could have end...

end up in the same situation

that I am in.

Bakken:

"You ever... does the reality

of being executed

ever bother you?

Like, do you ever think

that's gonna happen?"

I guess, yeah.

It... it bothers me sometimes.

It doesn't bother me

in the area of being

afraid to die.

What bothers me is leaving

so much left undone,

and that us three

being behind bars

or even sentenced to death

or being in prison

for the rest of our lives,

that is not going to,

in any way, bring

about justice,

because we didn't

kill those children.

I think it's pretty sad

that society can evolve

to the stage that it has,

yet still be barbaric enough

that it puts innocent

people like myself,

Jason Baldwin

and even Jessie Misskelley

in prison

and can even sentence you

to death

while the real killer

still walks the streets.

( Thunder rumbling )

You know, here's where

I live today...

number 11.

An apartment somewhere

in the state of Arkansas.

That's good enough.

I came from

a real nice big home

with all the amenities

and luxuries that you could have

to what I like to call

"my humble modest

studio apartment;"

a giant 300 square feet;

a bedroom, a living room,

a kitchen and a bathroom.

But there's benefits to it.

It takes me five minutes

to vacuum,

five minutes

for the air conditioner

to cool the place down

and I don't have to walk far

to go to the bathroom.

So it's a good little spot

to live, to be by yourself,

to control your thoughts,

your emotions,

and to live the rest

of my life as god sees fit.

( Thunder rumbles )

As I look at

all these dark clouds

roaming in on me today,

it can very easily

remind me

of may 5th, 1993.

This half was

a bright sunshiny day.

This half became

gloom and doom

and as the death

and destruction

rolled into

west Memphis, Arkansas,

and consumed

three babies' life

and killed them,

it's kind of like this

cloud front is rolling in

and cooling off today

and consuming me

as I stand here in the wind

amidst the storm.

And the storm

is what I have been in

for the last three years.

But thank god

there's a bright side

on the other side.

I've been down

in a lot of low valleys

and people have tried

to take me out,

but I'm still here,

Jessie, Jason, Damien.

Those names ring

in my ears daily

and I still hate you.

Forever and a day

shall I still hate you.

Baldwin:

Byers, when he's

running around, cussing me

and telling me that I should

go to hell and stuff,

it seems like

he's play-acting.

You know, trying to divert

the attention...

trying to play

the role that he should be...

of an angered parent,

when really he's...

really I believe

he's the one

that did it.

The murders of three

west Memphis boys last year

shocked all of region 8.

During the trials

earlier this year,

we empathized with

the parents and relatives

of those little boys.

And because

of television,

we were able to see

and hear the emotions

those parents

were going through.

Now the parents

of one of the boys

find themselves once again

under public scrutiny.

Jenna?

Since the trials,

the Byers moved

from west Memphis

to Cherokee village.

Now they say they wanted

to start a new life,

but now they face

criminal charges.

They're accused of taking

$20,000 worth of property

from a neighbor's house.

Police have witnesses

who claim they saw the Byers

loading stolen items

into their pickup truck.

And when police searched

the Byers' house,

they found a few of them.

Mark and Melissa Byers face

additional charges

in their old home town.

West Memphis police have

13 warrants for the Byers

for allegedly writing

over $700 in bad checks.

The Byers also face

other charges.

When they moved

to Cherokee village,

the Byers became good friends

with their neighbors,

John and Donna Kingsbury.

Problems began

when Mark spanked

the Kingsbury's five-year-old.

I took the fly swatter

and I just...

on the...

just the plastic end,

just on the back

of his blue jeans.

I said, "now you get home.

You've been a bad boy."

But the Kingsburys say

the whipping bruised their son.

We did have to have

a restraining order

put on them, because I was

worried about my family.

Newton:

Mark Byers' problems

began in July.

He's been charged

with contributing

to the delinquency

of a minor.

Police say he stood by

holding a gun

and allowed a teenaged friend

to assault John shaver, Jr.

According to a police report,

the teenager used a closed

pocket knife in his fist

to assault shaver.

The fight sent

shaver to the hospital

with a concussion.

Byers admits

the knife was his.

He also admits

there was a gun in his car.

The shavers say

Byers used the gun

to prevent bystanders

from stopping the fight.

I think

I'd be extremely...

Newton:

Shaver's father

believes this raises

serious questions

about Byers.

There's a lot of people

that's talked to me about it,

which, I hate to say it,

but they think maybe he

might have had something to do

with the... those murders.

Newton:

Mark Byers says

that's ridiculous,

but these charges

and the questions

they dredge up

may stick with

this family forever.

People are placing

a lot of emphasis on Mark

and could

he have been a suspect.

And there again

it's the same question

that was asked to me,

"did we pick Damien up

because he looked weird?"

Well, are we accusing

Mark Byers

because he has a ponytail

and looks a little weird

and he's a big kind of guy

and is kind of boisterous?

I mean, is that why

he's labeled as

having something

to do with it? No.

You have to look at the facts

and the facts are

the three that we arrested

and that have been convicted

are the ones

that did this.

Mark Byers didn't have anything

to do with this crime at all.

Who did you receive

this knife from?

I received it

from, uh uh...

how did I actually

receive it?

No, who did you

receive the knife from?

I received it

from, uh, Joe,

and the people

with HBO productions.

Here,

this red area here,

this is the shaft

of the penis

and here is where the scrotal

sack and testes should be

and they're missing.

So what we have is that

the skin overlying the penis

and the head of the penis

has been carved off.

It's gone.

It's not there.

You can see, this is probably

the single worst case

of sexual

mutilation I've seen.

This stab wound

right here?

This one right here.

It's a nice

elliptical shape there?

Nice stab wound

right there?

See those little

sort of abrasions

that come along the top there

and off the side there?

- Stidham: Uh-huh.

- Those indicate movement.

Now that is either

the person stabbing

the knife in and twisting it,

or the person who is

being stabbed is moving.

And a lot of them, uh,

at all kinds of funny angles

mean to me that the kid

was moving around.

Dr. Peretti testified

at Misskelley's trial

in corning

that this could have

been done with a knife

or it could have been done

with a sharp piece of glass.

Two weeks later he testifies

that this someone

is someone who has a great deal

of knowledge of anatomy.

- ( Chuckling )

- And that this penis is

skinned meticulously

- which would take...

- Right.

...a great deal of time

under laboratory conditions.

What can you

tell me about that?

On really close

examination...

this is why I brought you

the magnifying glass...

because I want you

to look right here.

You can see the impression

of the handle of the knife

as it is being plunged.

You see that little

squareness right there?

So whoever did this

went like this and grabbed it

and just went like that.

And that's how

they cut it out.

No precision, no accuracy,

no skill required to do that.

And actually, to me,

it's consistent with

a fishing knife that's got

the blade on one side

and the serrated top

on the other.

Because of the movement involved

and because of the depth,

that right there

is something that

only somebody

who is, like, really angry

is going to do.

This is not... this is not

an act of deliberation

or an act that's

well-thought-out

or well planned.

- Is it an act of

sexual gratification?

- I don't believe so.

I believe it's

an act of anger.

Mr. Byers, I need

to ask you about

defense exhibit

number e-6,

this particular folding

lockblade kershaw knife.

- If I can approach

the witness, your honor.

- Yes.

So on January the 26th,

did Gitchell tell you,

"let me explain

a problem we had

and you need

to answer this for me,

we have found blood

on this knife"?

I don't remember if

he said there was or not.

Did you have any idea how

human blood was on that knife?

Well, yes,

I would have an idea.

I cut my thumb.

All right, do you

recall stating,

"I have no idea,

no idea

how it could have

any human blood on it"?

- Do you recall

giving that answer?

- Yes sir.

Then do you recall stating,

"I don't even remember

nicking myself with it,

cutting the deer meat

or anything"?

- Is that the answer you gave?

- Yes sir.

And is that the truth?

I might not have

remembered it at that time

when he was

questioning me

but I could have remembered it

later on in the day

- and talked to him about it.

- Okay.

Michelle echols:

Mark Byers, everywhere he goes

trouble follows him.

Didn't him and his wife

break in this house

and get these statues

and all this stuff?

Yeah, and then they just

got slapped on the wrist.

And he can get into as much

trouble as he wants to get into

and they just never

do anything to him.

Pam echols:

And he's apparently not

that great of a person

because from hearing

people talk about

places that

he wants to live

or houses that

he wants to get,

the neighborhood

freaks out

and they don't want

him living there.

Gail Grinnell:

I'll tell you what really

worries me about Mark Byers

is he's got

a thing for knives,

like the knife

he gave to HBO.

And then later on

he gives

a teenage boy a knife.

If you had a child that was

brutally murdered by a knife,

you wouldn't be

giving another kid

a knife to fight

another kid.

And then hold a gun on him

and make him do it?

I mean...

Pam:

Well, I wouldn't

go far enough to say

that Mark Byers murdered

these little boys,

but I think he had

something to do with it

and I just can't

figure out what.

And I think

there's a lot of people

that probably do know.

I had three or four people

come to my house

to look me up to tell me

that they believe that

my son was innocent

and that they personally

knew Mark Byers,

and that they believed

that he was capable

of doing

a crime like that.

And they said they had

been to the police,

but the police

wouldn't listen.

And I feel really bad about

what happened to Melissa Byers

because it concerns me

that maybe

she found out something

that she shouldn't have.

And I'd like to know

what really happened to her.

I wish you could have been here

to hear me sing lately.

He liked to hear me sing.

( Sniffs )

I think

his little Christmas tree

will stay there real well.

It's in there tight enough.

I don't think the wind will

blow it over or anything.

Come here and kneel

down here by me.

( Music playing )

Oh god, why did you

let this happen?

Please help us through it.

God, please help us

through this.

These are

for you, Melissa.

I know how you love

red roses, baby.

This is all

I can do for you.

I know your heart

was broken.

I know you couldn't stand

the death of your child.

But, oh god, I wish

you hadn't left me.

You remember when we were

on our honeymoon,

how happy we were?

( Crying )

We worked together.

We ate together.

We went everywhere together.

We weren't

husband and wife,

we were best friends.

I loved you

with all my heart.

You remember when we opened

our jewelry store?

We had finally

accomplished something.

Had two sons doing good,

a nice house,

a nice business,

two dogs and a cat.

Just an average family,

trying to live our lives

the best we could.

I can never put into words

how much I loved you.

You were

everything to me.

You were my life.

I lived to see

you smile.

Those animals killed you.

They're evil animals

and they killed you

and I blame them

for your death.

( Sniffling )

And all for you morons,

infidels and fools

that think that I had

anything to do with it,

go to hell!

Go to hell!

I loved my wife more than

any man could love his wife

on the face of the earth.

I'd have died for her.

I took care of her.

She was my life.

I didn't do anything

but love her.

And for all you sick

son of a bitches out there

that think I had anything

to do with her life,

go to hell!

Go to hell.

Think what you might,

but you can kiss my ass!

( Lock buzzes )

Echols:

I can't understand

why exactly people are

glossing over the obvious

when it comes to Byers

and the death of Melissa Byers

and all the things

that Byers has said and done

since this trial.

I think maybe

for the general public,

it's not quite

as scary to believe

that bloodthirsty satanists

were out murdering children

as it is to believe that parents

are actually murdering

their own children.

Now you're... you're aware

that you're here to take

a polygraph test today?

- Yes sir.

- And this is concerning

the deaths of three boys...

- Yes sir.

- ...At west Memphis in 1993?

- Yes sir.

- Okay, you're also aware

that this... a record,

an audio and video

record is being made

of this procedure?

- Correct, sir.

- You don't have any

problem with that?

- No sir.

- If you do, I want

to know about it now

because I don't want

anything bothering you.

I don't have

any problem with it.

Okay, that sounds

good to me.

Mark, what we're

going to do today,

we're going to talk about

what happened in west Memphis.

We're going

to talk about you,

- where you come from

and who you are.

- Okay, sir.

What's your name...

your full name?

John Mark Byers.

- B-y-e-r?

- E-r-s, yes sir.

Okay.

What about your relationship

to Christopher?

Uh, he was

my best buddy.

Did you all...

did you all have disputes,

like all father and son

have, I'm sure?

Well, in the beginning,

of course, he was little.

But when he got up

to four or five,

- he started having

behavior problems.

- Mm-hmm.

And Melissa didn't know

what was wrong with him.

I didn't know what

was wrong with him.

In hindsight now,

I can look back and say,

"boy, if I had known that,

I'd have never spanked him

or I'd have never

given him time out

or I wouldn't have done

anything like that."

You say you spanked him.

What was your intent

when you spanked him?

- Was it your intent

to hurt him?

- Oh, no sir.

- To discipline him?

- Discipline him.

- Did you ever hurt him?

- No sir.

Byers:

Son, I know there's

thousands of eyes

watching what

I'm going to do.

I know I made mistakes.

I'm not a perfect father,

but I know I loved you

with all my heart.

And I know I tried to keep you

from getting hurt.

I know the times I had

to spank you or punish you

it was 'cause

I loved you, son.

I loved you and I didn't

want anything terrible

to happen to you.

With your knowledge

of the amount of blood

that was lost,

from... not only Chris Byers

but these other boys

who've had some pretty...

they're gonna bleed as well,

won't they?

- Oh, yes.

- Okay.

Do you have an opinion

as to whether or not

you could clean up

that amount of blood

at a scene in the dark?

Do you have an opinion

as to that?

I think it would be

quite difficult to do,

to have injuries

of this nature

without having any blood.

I mean, that's...

I would question that...

about the blood.

One of the bodies was

discovered in this area

right here.

There's a place up

there on the hill

where those two trees

grow together

right there.

- Mm-hmm.

- That was one of the other

reference points

on the crime-scene

diagram.

The prosecution,

their theory was

that the murders occurred

here in the creek bank.

And that actually...

that actually the homicides

took place here

on this little

kind of plateau area.

And that the defendants

threw water up on the bank

and washed all the blood away.

The water was

about this high.

And the theory

being that the water,

it would hit the bodies

- and wash the blood

back into the river?

- And wash away the evidence.

( Incredulous chuckle )

Okay.

I'm not sure exactly

how that would work,

or why they would think

it would work.

Unless they had someone

throwing water at the same time

the, uh, castration...

you can use a garden hose

on the bodies

and you wouldn't get

all the blood away.

That's like... there would

have been so much blood,

the amount of blood

at this crime scene,

if this had been the place

where Chris Byers alone

was emasculated,

there would have been

so much more blood

than that.

Plus they wouldn't have

been able to see it.

It would have been

an incomplete job.

So this is only

a disposal site.

Two of the kids did die here

because they were put in

the water and they drowned,

but this is

a disposal site only,

not a primary crime scene.

I'd have to say

that the making

of the film

"paradise lost" was...

was a new situation

for the court

and I'm sure for all

of the lawyers involved.

I think I had indicated

to the producers earlier

that if either the defense

or the prosecution had objected,

there wouldn't have been

any filming in the courtroom.

But if I had the decision

to do over again

as to whether

a documentary was made,

I probably

would not allow it.

- Woman: Tim.

- Well, Beth, right now

the new attorneys,

the appellate attorneys

for Damien echols

are conducting a hearing

inside this courtroom.

They have on the stand

a lawyer who represented

one of Echol's

co-defendants at trial,

uh, a few years ago.

What they're

trying to do

is establish that

the trial lawyers in this case

who represented

Damien echols

were ineffective,

that they were incompetent.

The main argument is that

they had a conflict of interest

because they agreed

to cooperate with filmmakers

who were making

a documentary about the case,

an award-winning documentary

called "paradise lost."

It was produced by HBO.

The argument these attorneys

are going to make

is that because Damien echols'

trial lawyers

made an agreement to cooperate

with those filmmakers...

and the allegation is

that they accepted money

from those filmmakers...

that that created

a conflict of interest

which made them

incompetent and ineffective

to assist Damien echols

at trial.

We expect that when

the prosecutors cross-examine

the lawyers who represented

Damien echols,

those lawyers

will testify that

they did not make a deal to take

money from the filmmakers.

That the agreement was that

the filmmakers would provide

money for a trust fund

for the defendants,

that the money did not

go to the attorneys.

It was not

for the attorneys

and it did not create

a conflict of interest.

That will be the argument

the prosecutors are

going to draw out

to try to make sure this

conviction stands up.

I think one of the ironies

about this motion is that

a lot of the lawyers

who are involved in it now,

Ed Mallett,

Barry Scheck, Bob Fogelnest,

high-profile lawyers...

never would have

heard of this case before

the documentary came out.

Okay?

Man: Okay.

Okay?

( Speaking softly )

Can you tell me much about

your interview with him?

My interview with him?

Yeah, you know I'll

send you a...

I can send you a copy

of the piece we did,

- based on the interview.

- Really? Man, I'd love

to have it.

It's basically, you know,

we talked about death row,

what it's like to be

on death row, et cetera.

- Um, you know...

- was his hair still long then?

Oh, yeah, his hair was

like down to here.

Yeah. That's what

it looked like when

he was here last.

I guess they wanted

to clean him up

and make him

look presentable.

- He said that

wearing a white shirt...

- he had long fingernails too.

He said wearing

a white shirt really

gave him a headache,

so I know it's

just killing him sitting

there in the courtroom.

He said white was

on the good side

and he liked to stay

on the dark side.

He didn't

say that to me.

Reporter:

When you were going

through the treatment

that you were going through

that led you to file that suit,

how did you finally get

to the point where you

did file it,

talk to the lawyers,

et cetera?

I don't really even know.

I mean, it's...

Umm...

One day you wake up

and you figure out,

"what's the worst thing

they can do to you?

Kill you?"

I mean, I'm sitting here

on death row anyway.

What else were

they going to do to me?

You don't have

anything to lose

when you're

in a situation like that.

( Music playing )

Pam:

I went to see Damien

yesterday.

And for the first time

in four years, I got

to touch him.

I got to hug him.

And it was hard to believe

how much he had grown...

taller... he was at least

a head taller than I was.

I can't believe you

had to go all that time

without even being able

to give him a hug.

He's 20-something years old

but he's still my baby.

And that's what

it felt like when I put

my arms around him.

And then he sat down.

You could tell he was

really nervous

because he's been out...

by himself for so long.

Grinnell: Yeah.

He was having

a really hard time

being around people.

I was allowed

to visit with Jason

after he was sentenced

and it was the first

contact visit we had

had in a year.

It was just...

it was thrilling

to be able to hug him

but then I had to let him go

and go to this horrible place

for something he didn't do.

When I start thinking about

what all they

go through in prison,

my mind... I just

can't handle it.

You know, I just

start freaking out

when I try to start imagining

what Jason's life must be like

or Damien life's

must be like.

Pam:

I heard a lot of stuff

that had happened to Damien,

but it's really

really hard to deal with.

You're in a position

where you can't do anything.

And if you stop

and think about it very much,

some of the things

that are done to him...

It-it... I think it could

make you lose your mind,

knowing that something

like that's being done

to your child.

Because what's happened

to them in prison,

it's gonna...

it's gonna affect them

for the rest of their lives.

When they come home,

it will never be...

it'll never be

like it ever was.

Because these...

these boys were

just children too.

Whenever these

little boys were murdered,

our boys were

just children too.

Grinnell:

I never knew what

hell could be like

until these

last four years.

My whole life

has changed.

I lost my home,

my job.

Nothing seems

to matter anymore.

Kind of like that song.

I got a song I dedicated

to Jason.

It's "nothing else matters"

by Metallica.

That's my song to him,

because really,

I feel like most of the time

nothing else matters to me

but getting Jason home

and I just don't

know how I do it.

Damien, when our

visiting time's over

he always stands up

and puts his hand

against the glass

for me to put mine

against his.

We're not actually touching,

but we are.

It's in the heart anyway.

♪ So close

no matter how far ♪

♪ couldn't be much more

from the heart ♪

♪ forever trusting

who we are ♪

♪ and nothing else

matters. ♪

Interviewer:

If you could speak

to the families

of these kids

who think you did it,

you know, what would

you say to them?

I don't know.

If I could talk to the families

of the victims right now,

I don't know really

what I'd say.

Just... they were led

to believe by the police

that we'd done it

and so I understand

that they hate us,

you know, hate me,

but I didn't do it,

you know.

I didn't have

anything to do with it.

I'm sorry that

your kids are dead.

I'm sorry about that.

I'm really

sorry about all that

'cause I don't have a kid,

but if I was my little brother,

I'd be real angry

at whoever had done it.

But all I ask is

y'all go back

and look at the evidence.

Just stop and think and don't

let your emotions about it all

get to your head.

Just stop and think

and look back at the evidence

and look where

the evidence does point.

And ask yourself,

"now who do you think

really done it?"

You know, because...

It was a great tragedy

that your kids was killed,

but it's also

another great tragedy

that American citizens,

anybody in today's public

can just be picked up

for a crime they didn't commit

and be convicted of it

without no evidence.

That's another tragedy.

On this particular case

you have the fortune

of having what appears

to be bite-Mark evidence

right there on the face that

was not originally mentioned,

documented or what have you.

But these type

of bite marks are...

there are two kinds...

wait a minute.

Are you talking

about bite marks

- on the outside

of this victim's face?

- That's right.

- Not superficial

bite marks...

- No.

...on the inside of their mouth

caused by their own teeth?

Not superficial

on the inside caused

by their own teeth.

There are what appears

to be bite marks

all over certain parts

of these children's bodies.

Well, did he miss that?

Or did he...

- I don't remember seeing it.

- It's not in the

autopsy report.

And the great thing

about bite-Mark evidence is

bite-Mark evidence is like...

it's just as good

as a fingerprint

and it's better than DNA.

Because bite-Mark evidence

indicates a specific person

committing a specific behavior.

The bite Mark indicates

that you bit somebody

at a certain spot

at a certain time.

So if we have somebody biting

this individual here...

a certain person...

we have a specific behavior

tied to a specific person.

So that's

the best kind of evidence,

as far as I'm concerned

for this type of crime.

Whenever you have teeth marks,

it's typically...

if you were to show this

to an emergency-room pathologist

who'd seen a lot of these,

he would arrest the mom,

because it's more

typically resembling

the type that's involved

in cases of child abuse.

We have a mother

of a victim who is

no longer alive.

- Right.

- Melissa Byers has been dead

since march of '96.

I don't see any reason

why her autopsy

should still be...

be sealed.

They claim they

are still conducting

a criminal investigation,

but, uh, how long

does it take to...

again in this

particular case,

since what

you've told me is that

the death is undetermined,

they can keep it open

as long as they want.

But the problem is,

if they are keeping it open,

that means they don't know

whether it's a suicide

or a homicide

and that means

it's undetermined which means

it's an equivocal death.

But it's important to this case.

And the reason I originally

asked you for the materials

is because I'd like

to know if there's a connection.

I'd like to see her wounds.

I'd like to see if

there's any wounds on her.

I'd like to see if

there's a connection between

this case and that case.

And the reality is that

I would like also...

Also if you get

a forensic odontologist

in here at any point in time,

they can yank her teeth

and see if they match

any of the bite-Mark

impressions.

Because we need to, at least...

if there's nothing wrong,

if there's no connection,

we need to establish

that there's no connection

to these deaths.

Byers:

I've wondered why

it's been almost two years...

and I have called everybody

they've told me to call

about getting

a death certificate

or an autopsy report on my wife

and they won't release it.

The newspaper people

have called... they won't

release it.

They want to say

it's still pending.

What's still pending?

If they can't say

cause of death wasn't

anything but a heart attack,

all they've said was

a prescription medication

that she was taking

was found in her bloodstream

and a foreign drug.

They never would release

what the foreign drug was.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know

what caused her to die.

They won't tell me.

And I think that just

gives people suspicion.

The police up there,

they didn't care about us.

They didn't care

about her dying

and they're still

throwing gas on the fire

because if there

ain't nothing to hide,

why won't they give me

the paperwork that

I'm entitled to?

Man:

Either that or bring

charges against you...

- either one or the other.

- They ain't got no charges

to bring against me because

I didn't do nothing.

I know that, I know.

You know, I ain't got

a doubt in my mind on that,

but that's... that's...

like you said, that's

not the point.

Two years and they

won't release it.

They're just holding it open

so people can sit out here

and draw their

own conclusions

and tell it like

they want it to go.

Because people would rather

talk any day of the week

about somebody else

than sit and talk about

their own problems.

I mean, what do you

think it makes me feel like

when I hear people say,

"I believe you

killed Christopher.

I believe you

had something to do

with killing Melissa"?

I can't tell you

how it hurts.

Man, it tears me apart.

And go into a grocery store,

go anywhere,

and I'm subject to walking

into a fool who'll say that.

You all been with me

when people walk up and say

"don't I know you?

- Wasn't you

the baby-killer on TV?"

- Man #2: Yeah.

Well, I've been

in two fights myself

over it.

Byers:

What was it?

Well, at a bar one night

there in marked tree,

a dude come up and said,

"yeah, that sorry Mark Byers.

Hell, them boys

didn't kill his kid.

He was in on that.

He was probably

the ringleader on it."

Uh, excuse my French,

but I stomped his ass

right there on the spot.

Byers:

You know, I've had

an ignorant woman,

she was a schoolteacher

there in west Memphis,

taught Jessie Misskelley

in his G.E.D.... You know,

his alternative school?

- Yeah.

- And this woman showed

the movie "paradise lost"

and talked about

how that I was basically

guilty for it,

and that the police

and everything framed them three

and there was no cult,

and Jessie Misskelley

was a good loving boy

and just such a kind person.

Those three animals

took my baby from me

and they took

my wife from me.

And I self-destructed.

And, buddy,

I'm telling you about it,

I got downright mean.

The pain

they've caused me,

it cost me physically

and mentally

and all the fights

and all that I got into

because I went

to looking for them,

and the bricks that

hit me in the head

and the knives that cut

these scars on my face

and the jerks that

had the privilege

of knocking teeth

out of my mouth,

well, that's because

of them three animals

that provoked me so

to get into a violent

rage like I had.

And that's what it cost me...

a whole set of teeth.

But that's all right

because they're gonna

pay for it.

And I can't imagine

why people

want to say the things

that they say about me.

I mean, what do

you all think?

Why the hell do people

want to try to accuse me

of being involved in that?

You've always been

an out-front person.

You've been a leader,

not a follower.

I was not meaning

to be an individual...

man #2:

Well no, but you

could have been.

I mean, you could be mean

when mean gets mean.

You can get mean.

- You've always been that way.

- People just don't know you.

It's the only reason

they're talking like

they are about you.

Because if they

knew anything about you,

they wouldn't be saying it.

And I can't tell you all how

much I love you, you know,

for being closer than a brother,

but always being there for me.

I've been there

and I'm gonna be there

- and I'll be there until...

until hell freezes over.

- I know you will.

If you

wasn't worthy of it,

it wouldn't be there.

- You've got my word on that.

- You ain't giving me nothing

for nothing, are you?

- No, sir.

- Ain't nothing

for free, is it?

- Huh-uh.

- And have I paid my dues?

- Yes sir, you sure have.

- You're damned right.

- You damned right.

- And the world needs to know

about it, don't they?

- They sure do.

- They need to know the truth

and that's what

we's sitting here

talking about is the truth.

- That's right.

- And the devil-worshipping

son of a bitches

are the murderers

out there, not the victims.

- There it is.

- And there's three families

that's victims.

And I'd just like

to catch those three.

If you ever get within arm's

reach of this arm right here,

you a paid-for

son of a bitch.

You've got

my word on it.

Female reporter:

Damien, how much hope do you

have of a favorable ruling?

I know this is

hard on you.

Why is it so important

for you to be here,

for your son to see you

in the courtroom?

There's no reason

for them to be here.

They were falsely accused.

The west Memphis

police department

did a botched job

just to get

these boys arrested.

Somebody had

to be arrested.

It's ridiculous.

- Do you feel like the HBO film

affected this case?

- I think it helped a lot.

- Woman: You think it helped?

- Yes, I do.

- Woman: It helped your son?

- Yes, I think so.

- Why's that?

- Woman: How is that?

Um, I just think that it

shows enough of both sides

to where

you can kind of see

a personal side of Damien.

Do you feel like

that his attorneys,

that his former attorney

did not do an adequate job?

Well, from what I'm seeing,

it looks like he didn't.

What is the personal

side of Damien?

- Um...

- You know him

better than anyone.

He's very much

like myself.

He usually keeps

to himself

and he doesn't really ever

bother anyone.

We're both very private.

Man:

So what do you hope happens

when this wraps up?

I hope everyone can

see this for the joke

that it really is.

Okay.

Director:

Five seconds.

3:30, Tim, 3:30.

Two seconds.

Daniel stidham...

he defended

one of the three individuals

convicted in this case,

Jessie Misskelley.

Thank you for being with us.

All right, Damien echols...

Uh, he received money

which was supposed to aid

in his defense.

How does this harm his trial,

his right to a fair trail?

In my opinion,

Gregg, it didn't.

I-i... I personally don't

subscribe to that point of view.

Gregg Jarre interesting.

Let me turn now to ray brown

who is a veteran criminal

defense attorney and our

colleague here at court TV.

Is there a conflict

of interest here?

Mr. Stidham, who was

involved in it himself,

doesn't think so.

Let's get to the real question,

Gregg, which is that

because this country is,

in many areas, so strongly

in favor of death penalty

that we underfund the defense.

I think Mr. Stidham can tell you

that he earned

something like $19 an hour

for his representation

of his client.

The lawyers for echols

got a little bit more,

but nowhere near

the money needed...

and $1,000 limit

on money for experts

in a case that

is fairly saturated

with scientific proof.

So this is the kind

of case in which

we have to look at the question

of whether the defendants

were given a war chest.

Because it's really

the argument of the defense here

that, in fact,

the lawyers for echols

were forced to make some kind

of an agreement that involved

letting their client's

conversations be overheard

because they didn't have

the resources to fight the case.

Not something to be lightly

tossed away or endangered.

Daniel stidham, if you had

had a lot of money,

what would you have

done with it?

We would do some of the things

that we're doing right now

with regard to

the forensic evidence.

Jarre

all right, Dan Stidham,

anybody who defends somebody

in a capital death penalty case,

I take my hat off to you.

You're deserving

of many thanks for that,

regardless

of the circumstances,

guilt or innocence.

And thank you

for being with us.

We appreciate it.

Stidham:

How can the medical examiner,

when he conducts an autopsy,

how can he miss

a bite Mark on... on...

on the victim's face?

Turvey:

The reality is with any

kind of physical evidence,

with any kind of physical

imprint of evidence

like that

or pattern injuries like that,

you have to really be trained

to look for them.

If you're not looking for it

you're not going to find it.

And in this particular case,

you have a preponderance

of bite-Mark evidence

that seems very good

and you're likely to get

a very good result off of.

Bite-Mark evidence is the kind

of evidence that got Bundy

and that's the kind of evidence

that's going to get

the individual who's

responsible for these crimes.

We really have to be careful

to protect the information

that we have in that report,

and not disseminate it

to individuals

who are potentially

going to release it.

Because in my experience

in cases that I've worked on

when there's an offender

who finds out there's

bite-Mark evidence

that's potentially going

to be used against them,

even in prison,

they're going to be making

a visit to the prison dentist

and they're going to have

those teeth removed

because they do not want that

evidence linked back to them.

They know that

bite-Mark evidence

is just as good as a fingerprint

in a court of law.

Mark, are you married?

No sir,

I'm widowed.

My wife passed away

march 29th of '96.

I'm sorry to hear that.

March 29th of '96.

- Where was this at?

- In Cherokee village.

Cherokee village.

A natural death?

Uh, cause of death

undeterminable.

What do you...

do you have any

feelings about it?

I mean...

- Yes sir.

- What are they, if you want

to reveal it to me?

My wife had given up

her will to live

after our baby

was murdered.

And she just didn't

want to live anymore.

And she got

into an addiction

and I think the addiction

helped kill her.

- Drugs?

- Yes sir.

- What... what type?

- Dilaudid.

Have you had any other

problems with the police?

Not major, no sir.

You've had problems,

is that what you saying?

Oh well,

speeding tickets,

I got a d.W.I. One time

after my wife was murdered.

Uh, nothing

really major, no.

- No robbery, no stealing?

- Oh no. No felonies

or anything like that.

Okay.

From what I see,

what you're telling me is

you are not a hateful

mean person,

you're not the kind of person

who goes around

causing distress to people.

You don't steal. You don't...

you don't

go out of your way

to harm people...

- No sir.

- ...Or anything like this.

- I pretty much...

- and you said there was

maybe one time ever

that you had hurt someone

in a fight or something.

Oh, I'm sure.

In football games

I hurt people, you know.

Yeah, but you know

football's one thing,

but did you got out there

meaning to hurt somebody?

Oh no, I went

out there for the sport

of the game, you know.

If you do something,

I think that kind of comes

with the territory.

If you get hurt,

it comes with it,

now if somebody

intentionally

low-blocks you

or trips you to injure you,

that's one thing.

- Did you ever do that?

- No sir.

I played tight end.

I caught the ball

and ran.

Did you ever want

to hurt somebody?

Yes sir,

there's three people

right now I'd like to hurt.

With the exception

of those three people?

No sir.

Gitchell:

There were a number of people

that looked like

good suspects initially.

Like a phone call

would come in

and you would

start checking on it

and it was like, hey,

we may have something here.

And then you'd find out,

well no, there's no way

this person could have done it.

So I mean, I think at the time

I referred to it as

"an emotional

roller coaster."

You just had ups and downs,

ups and downs.

And that just

wears you out.

I know that

for a period of time,

a couple of weeks

into the case...

maybe two to three weeks

into the case,

at that point I was

personally feeling like

Damien was

responsible for this.

And I got to the point

where I could see him

at the doorway

of my bedroom.

I'm sure a lot of that

had to do with

just being

exhausted physically

and mentally and no sleep.

But just really

really even becoming

a little paranoid

and terrified myself.

I think Gary gitchell has

an overactive imagination.

I believe deep in his heart

that he knows

that we did not commit

those murders.

But now it's too late for him

to come forward and say that...

to say he made a mistake.

And at this point in time,

I mean, that would... it's just

something he can't do now.

So I think he's kind of been

playing this part for so long

that now

he probably believes

this part he's

been playing himself.

He's fooled himself

into thinking it's true.

( Keyboard clacking )

Okay, here's the question:

Bill says,

what did you think

of "paradise lost"

and your haircut then?

Damien:

That haircut was

actually given to me

about five minutes

before the hearing,

by a woman

in the back room

with a pair

of plastic scissors.

I was not to blame

for that haircut.

As for the movie itself,

it was

very emotional for me.

I think I went through

the entire range of emotions

while I was watching it.

I think it made me

a little homesick.

- Sauls: Really?

- Yeah.

Bakken:

Was it weird

to see Jason again?

Yeah, he didn't even

look like I remembered,

I guess because

so many years have gone by

that I had begun to forget

what he looked like

until I saw him on there.

And when I was

looking at that,

we were both children.

We were still kids.

The entire way that I

carried myself back then,

my entire demeanor back

then as compared to now,

I think I've changed

a very great deal.

Did you feel roped

into doing "paradise lost,"

forced into it?

Or did you pretty much

trust these guys?

No no, I wanted

to do it.

You know, at the time

we needed some kind of

positive publicity

or at least some way,

some kind of forum

to express

what I wanted to say

to kind of combat just what

the prosecution was releasing

to the media, some kind

of objective thing where

I could actually

express something.

But I also did it because

I just thought it would be fun.

So you trusted

the filmmakers pretty much

to do a fair portrayal

of what was going on?

Yeah, I trusted them.

But at the same time

even if I didn't,

- what did I have to lose?

- Bakken: This is true.

What did you

think of Byers?

I think Byers is probably

the fakest creature

to ever walk on two legs.

I don't think there's

a true thing about him.

He puts on all these

false faces.

He'll act one way whenever

they have cameras on him

and another way

when he's by himself.

He has about

30 different faces.

Bakken:

So seeing him

in the movie didn't change

how... any of your opinions

about him then?

Well, I think it reinforced

the opinions that

I have about him.

I still believe

with all my heart

that he is the person who

killed those three children.

- And...

- Bakken: Alone?

I have no sympathy

for Byers.

I'm sitting here

on death row for a crime

that he committed.

That in itself is

enough to make me have

no sympathy for him...

but then also the fact that

he killed three little kids.

Bakken:

Do you think Melissa had

anything to do with it?

I don't think

she actually participated

in the act

of killing them,

but I think she participated

in covering it up.

I firmly believe

that she knew,

and I think that's

why she's dead now.

If you could say... if you

could give Byers a message,

what would it be?

I wouldn't say anything

to Mark Byers.

Mark Byers

is beneath me.

He doesn't even

deserve my contempt.

( Music playing )

Byers:

You butchered

my babies out here.

I swore that I'd stand

at your grave and cuss it.

Well, I'm doing it

a little bit early.

I'm going to Bury you

three bastards right here

and send you to hell.

This crime scene tape,

that come off of what they

stretched in front of me

when they found

my babies out here...

wouldn't let me by.

I thought it was

just fitting

to bring it back

to your memorial fund.

Jessie, you got

your flowers.

That's your head marker,

you animal.

To Damien...

Jason, there's yours.

You want to worship

the devil?

See him.

I'm going to give you

a farewell party.

Now we're going

to have some fun.

I'm going to try to help

send you on your way.

You done got

all of my blessings,

which aren't none.

What you think,

you ready to die?

Fire for fire

and death for death.

Live through this fire,

you animal.

What, it ain't hot enough

for you?

This is the ditch

that you killed them in,

do you remember?

You wanted to eat

my baby's testicles?

Burn, you son

of a bitch, burn.

Burn and go

to hell! Burn!

Can you remember screaming

and hearing them holler?

I stomp on your grave!

I stomp on your grave!

I stomp

on your grave!

Burn and go to hell!

Burn you like

you deserve to burn.

♪ Well, dolls of voodoo ♪

♪ all stuck with pins ♪

♪ one for each of us

and our sins... ♪

Fogleman:

Looking at young people

involved in the occult,

do you see any particular

type of dress?

I have personally observed

people wearing, um,

black fingernails,

having their

hair painted black,

wearing black t-shirts,

sometimes they will

tattoo themselves.

Look at history.

Look at hundreds of years

of religious history.

There have been hundreds

of people killed

in the name of religion.

It is a motivating force.

It gives people

who want to do evil,

want to commit murders,

a reason to do what

they're doing.

West Memphis is

pretty much

like a second Salem, you know.

'Cause everything that

happens there... every crime

no matter what it is,

it's blamed on satanism.

Pashley:

This case has attracted

a lot of young people

that relate to Damien.

And it scared the hell

out of them so that's why

they want to be there.

And yet,

you've got to tell them,

if they dress in black, man,

that's not going to help

Damien at all,

'cause it's just going

to look like Damien has

a cult following.

We dressed in suits

and they still thought

we were in a cult.

So I mean if we get people

at the hearing

that insist on dressing

in all their goth glory,

then it's just going to confirm

everything that they think...

that there's still a cult,

that Damien's still controlling

the cult from prison.

I mean people were telling me

that stuff... I mean reporters.

I was asked by a reporter

if I was a member

of Damien's cult.

- Me too.

- And I'm standing there

wearing a suit.

I thought I was

dressed like a guy,

like a normal person,

you know.

But the, um... I think what

we were trying to do is

we don't want to give them

any fuel for that.

- That's nuts.

- I think they're sort of afraid

if they dress conservative

they're going to be

on the other side,

"the enemy side."

Like they have to dress

like Damien or something

if they want to be on his side.

I don't know what that is.

Well, look how he dresses

now in court, you know.

- He wears all white in prison.

- Bakken: Yeah.

And when he goes to court

he's wearing, you know,

like, nice clothes.

I mean

he's grown up a lot.

Bakken:

A lot of people only know

Damien from the movie,

so they see these little bits

of Damien in the movie

and that's what they think

they're reacting to.

But they don't realize

that's, like, five years ago.

Woman:

I want to remind you

this is a fundraiser

so I want you

to give from your heart

because these young men

are kind of counting on us.

And just for the record,

anyone... if you know someone

that hasn't been able

to make it here today,

or for whatever reason

left early,

if you'll remind them

this cauldron's going

to be available

for the next couple of weeks

to continue to add to.

I'm puttin' money in here

because I want Damien

to be able

to go to college

outside of prison.

I want him to go

to a real school.

- Woman: Really soon.

- ( Applause )

Woman:

And remember too that

he had the courage to say

he was wiccan in adversity

when he knew that

it would cost him a lot.

All of us who are here

are here because

we enjoy knowing

that there is

religious freedom,

hopefully somewhere,

that we all respect each other

for our beliefs, for our loves,

for everything that we have.

They wrote it off as something,

"we don't understand that.

It's got to be

the work of the devil."

Well, you know,

Wicca... Wiccans

don't believe

in the devil, okay?

The devil is

a Christian deity.

They use the devil...

or they believe

that the devil

is something that causes

them to do evil things.

And in the wiccan read,

in the wiccan tradition,

those folks believe

that you are 100% responsible

for your actions.

And they believe

in the law of three...

- ( applause )

- ...Whatever you do

comes back on you threefold.

If you put out good energy,

that's coming back

to you threefold.

If you put out negative energy

and dark energy,

that's coming back

on you threefold.

That is what

the wiccan means.

I know that,

as a wiccan

that every religion

is important to me

and if I felt like...

even Christians...

that they were having

their right to be rel...

you know they couldn't

practice in their way,

I would defend that.

It's not about

just me being wiccan,

this is about how did this

affect three little boys

whose murderers, I personally

believe, went unfounded.

And there's three young men

who are in jail

and one of them's there

and he's on death row

just because he said

"I'm wiccan."

Val price:

Can you explain to the ladies

and gentlemen of the jury

what... some principles

about the Wicca religion?

Um, it acknowledges

a goddess

in a higher regard

as a god

because people

have always said

"we're all god's children"

and men cannot have children.

Um, it's basically like

a close involvement

with nature.

( Keyboard clacking )

Sauls:

Okay, here's the question:

"I was wondering what made you

go change your religion

back to catholic?"

I haven't changed

my religion to anything.

At this point in time

I don't really

make any distinctions

between religions anymore.

And they say that a lot

of people in prison find god.

Well, I never knew

god was lost.

And, um, I just...

I don't like to put a label

over myself anymore.

Did you ever?

Well, at one time

I didn't really mind

because I thought maybe

there was some sort of

distinction

between religions.

But then I realized

that there's not.

I think all religions

basically teach...

recording:

Your time limit is

about to be exceeded.

Your call will be terminated

in 30 seconds.

I think all religions basically

teach the same message

and I think

it's the people who...

who create all these dogmas

and strict rules

and try to enforce

this belief

that if you don't believe

the way they do,

that you're

going to suffer.

Have you forgotten

this face?

I hope not.

'Cause it's going

to come visit you

when you die

and look up from hell.

It'll be just like Lazarus

and the rich man.

Lazarus at Abraham's bosom,

the rich man

looks up from hell.

What's he do?

Beg for a drop

of water.

None was given.

You'll beg

'cause my baby shall put

his foot across your neck.

How do I know that?

Well, it's an easy song...

"the Bible tells me so."

And there's so much in here

that's in store for you.

If you don't have one,

rush out to your nearest

bookstore

and get one,

you lowlife.

Have the Gideons

mail you one.

Read it, live it,

believe it.

It is your destiny.

Hell awaits you.

- Man: Who's going to talk?

- Burk's gonna talk here.

Okay, burk,

tell 'em what it is.

- We got everybody in here?

- Who am I telling?

We have most

of the people here.

Well, this... should

I just start talking?

Yeah, go ahead.

Okay, this is a... this is

a collection of postcards

that we've received from people

from all over the world

in support of this cause.

They've all written

"free the west Memphis three"

all over these postcards.

The goal is actually to deliver

this to the governor,

to show the governor the support

that these three have.

It's more like a... it's kind

of working as a petition

more than it is

anything else.

It's a way

for people to express

their concerns about this.

- Okay. Thanks a lot.

- Thank you.

Announcer:

You're watching KATV channel 7,

the spirit of Arkansas.

This is channel 7 news

at 6:00.

Anchorwoman:

Did defense attorneys

sabotage Damien echols' case

by sitting on potentially

explosive evidence?

His new attorneys

think so.

Edward mallett says the men

who represented echols

in his first trial

not only botched the case

by selling the story to HBO,

but they failed to investigate

obvious leads.

Mallett also claims

that he has new evidence

of a human bite Mark

on one of the victims.

Judge David Burnett

granted his motion

to get bite-Mark impressions

from Damien's two codefendants.

Under cross-examination,

val price,

echols' previous attorney,

testified that he did

his best to represent echols.

But Brent turvey,

a forensic scientist,

disagrees.

He says price sat

on critical evidence,

namely bite marks he's found

on the victims' bodies.

Bakken:

That kind of stuff is like

absolute proof of who did this.

I mean if they can get bite

impressions, it's like...

- man: It's like a fingerprint.

- It's done.

They can identify

who it is, period.

- Or we can at least

exclude these three boys...

- Bakken: Yeah.

...who that we have no question

that they're innocent.

So that's one way

of trying to prove that.

Byers:

The three they got are

the three that did it.

You are entitled

to your opinion,

but to spread

your propaganda

that you believe

they are innocent,

I think is crap.

- Bite marks aren't propaganda.

That's solid 100% evidence.

- It's fact.

- It hasn't been proven they're

bite marks yet though.

- It has been.

And you're very convinced

100% they're guilty, right?

- No doubt.

- And you're 100% convinced

of your own innocence.

- So why don't you...

- no doubt in my mind about it.

Why don't you give

your bite impressions

to the defense?

Do you think

that I'm guilty,

that I had something to do

with murdering my son?

We're not saying

anything about that.

I don't know

if you had anything

to do with it.

I want to know

that you didn't,

and that would be

- by giving

your bite impression.

- Rule yourself out for it.

I've already been exonerated.

What else do I have to do?

Sauls:

The public's been

kind of suspicious of you.

Bakken:

What happened to Melissa?

I believe she died

from a broken heart.

Bakken:

But you were there,

so you saw something.

I was asleep beside her

and woke up and found her

passed away beside me.

There were no bruises,

abrasions, anything like that

of any foul play

whatsoever.

I've been

totally exonerated.

All charges or suspicion

of anything dropped.

Bakken:

Well, I do know there

was a toxicology report

and they talked about

actually quite a lot of drugs

that were in her system.

Yes, a lot

of prescription drugs that she

was taking, they sure did.

Also some prescription drugs

she wasn't taking.

She took like seven or eight

different types of medication

for being bipolar,

manic depressive,

post-traumatic syndrome.

And as far as

the other medication,

I'm as puzzled

about it as anyone.

I read in the newspaper...

it was actually

"the Arkansas times"...

- yes.

- Mara Leveritt said that there

were signs she was suffocated.

There were no signs

of suffocation or struggle.

She was laying

right there on the bed

when the paramedics

and all came in.

If someone published something

in the newspaper about me

that was suspicious like that,

that pointed the finger at me

and said I was this

and said I was that,

I'd want to prove

to somebody

that I had nothing

to do with it.

Okay, then tell me

what I have not done

to prove that I have not

been involved in any of it.

I have no problem

with a polygraph,

sodium pentothal,

being hypnotized,

bite marks or anything else,

which I've submitted

to every test they've asked,

every question they have asked

because I know my innocence.

They didn't have

bite-Mark impressions.

Did they take your

bite-Mark impressions?

Bakken:

I mean if you're

that convinced...

dental records.

You know, how could you

give your bite impressions

if you don't

have your teeth?

Maybe that's why you're

not so reluctant to do it.

Well, what if I told you that

the teeth that I had before

they were pulled or the teeth

that I had during it,

I know the oral surgeons

and all that did the work

and I would be glad

to sign a release

- for them to send my x-rays.

- Sauls: Will you do that?

If need be.

Like I said, I've cooperated

with the police.

Would you do that for us

and send it to Dan stidham?

I won't do

a damn thing for you.

- Do it for Dan stidham.

- Bakken: Do it for your kid.

Sauls:

Do it... just do it

to prove us wrong.

I don't have to prove

one damn thing to you.

If it turns out

that we're wrong,

we'll admit it,

I promise you.

Bend over and put

your head between your legs

and kiss your ass goodbye,

'cause you're

going to be wrong.

I think you all are

fighting a lost cause.

We're just trying

to get to the truth.

Byers:

As a young boy

at the age of 13,

I started down many

of the wrong roads

that a lot of teenagers

will go down.

I remember the first

dollar I stole

was out of

my mama's purse.

The first people

I stole from were my parents.

Boy, it just went down a rough

and rugged road from there.

I can remember quite vividly

the day that I came to

from a comatose state.

I had overdosed

in my parents' home.

The next day,

they were on the phone

with my brother-in-law

and sister down in Jackson,

Mississippi.

Said, "will you all take him?

He's out of control.

We can't do

anything with him."

I saw my brother-in-law,

a big tall red-headed feller

and I said, "you don't know

all the wrongs I've done."

He said, "well, let me

show you over here."

He explained to me

about the apostle Paul.

He said, "don't get up there

and think that you're the worst

that's been."

He said, "the apostle Paul's

already took that privilege

and he says

I am the chief sinner."

So I thought,

"well, if the lord could

save the apostle Paul

and look beyond his sins,

he could save me too."

When this last tragedy

came into our life,

I stood by

my son's casket

and I said,

"oh god, help me.

Lord, I'm looking to you.

I want to be the dad

that stands in the gap,

that will stand for you

regardless to what

the world says.

I don't care.

Lord, I can't

do this on my own.

I need you."

And you know

there was a peace

that surpassed

all understanding

that came upon me

in that funeral home.

And I thought,

"thank god for that."

Thank the lord, for after

20-something years

of living like a savage

on this earth,

that he knocked

at my heart's door

and spoke to me.

And I'm so glad

I invited him in.

Turvey:

I'd want to know

who in the community

had access to those victims,

who would be trusted

with those kids.

I'd want to know what

the relationships were

in that community,

because who was killed

tells you why they were killed.

Look at how clear

of a line we're drawing

between the homicide

and the behavior of Chris...

of Chris Byers.

My feeling is

that this kid was

being abused.

Chris Byers

was setting fires.

He was playing

with his own excrement.

He was

beating up other kids,

picking fights.

He was, uh...

he was on Ritalin...

the doctor was saying he was

going to hospitalize him.

He was a kid who had

behavioral problems

and problems of being

defiant and violent and

aggressive and impulsive

for at least three years

that this neurologist

had been seeing him.

And this doctor

in his report states,

I'm giving this kid...

I've been prescribing

him Ritalin

for the past three years,

nothing's come of it.

Not that he...

I can't under...

he even says,

"it does not...

it does not make

sense to me.

I'm at a loss to explain why

his behavior has not abated."

'Cause what Ritalin is

it's a kiddie depressant.

What it does is it takes kids

and makes them...

it makes them more docile.

But Ritalin is a funny drug.

And it's my understanding...

and you'll have to talk

to somebody who really knows

what he's talking about...

but it's my understanding

that in adults,

Ritalin is like speed.

It has the exact

opposite effect.

So you think that maybe

the kid wasn't getting

the prescription...

if he was getting

the prescription,

he wouldn't have

been exhibiting

those behaviors.

And he was exhibiting

those behaviors.

So my only thought

would be that

he was not getting

his prescription.

They had a little book

they wrote in at school.

I still can't go through

a lot of his things.

It's still too painful.

- Byers: It's his journal.

- It's his journal.

And it was

on a Wednesday.

And he had written nothing

on the page except just

"I love my mommy."

And that's all

he'd written on the page.

And I know that

if he could come to me,

he would say,

"mommy, it's okay,"

and "I'm all right

and you need to be

all right too.

And I still love you

and I love daddy

and I love Ryan.

Now I want

you to pull yourself

together, mommy,

and I want you

to go ahead and live

because I'm okay now.

I'm okay.

I'm all right.

You don't have

to worry about me."

What was your relationship

with your wife?

Did y'all get along

pretty good?

As long as

I could keep her

from using, we did.

I could keep her off of it

a couple of months

and she'd go

back to it.

The first rehab

I put her in

was nine months

after we were married.

And I had a doctor

tell me then

that y'all just go ahead

and divorce her.

He said, "you know,

heroin junkies,

one out of..."

I don't know what

the statistic exactly is,

he said, "...ever stay clean.

This is just going

to cause you a lot

of pain and misery."

- Do you use drugs?

- No sir.

- Have you ever used drugs?

- Yes sir.

What did... what?

Marijuana.

I've tried coke,

some pills.

- Did you ever have a habit?

- No sir, never been...

you were just casually

experimenting?

Just experimenting

as a teenager and going

to college.

- Do you have a brain tumor?

- Yes sir.

Is it troubling you now?

Have you got it

under control?

Well, I’m... I'm under

a doctor's care.

- Are you taking medication?

- Yes sir.

What, what?

Is it, uh...

well, just tell me

what it is,

tell me what it is.

Tell me what it does.

- Uh...

- Is it for

a nervous condition?

- Yes sir.

- Okay.

It helps... it helps me

for my anxiety

and panic attacks

and the terrible

nightmares that I have

when I go to sleep

a lot of times.

Have you taken

your dosage today?

This one is

in the morning.

This one's in

the evening.

This one's

in the evening.

This one's

three times a day.

And this one's

three times a day.

The Xanax on me works like

Ritalin does on children.

What happens when you

don't take this?

I'll get real nervous

and just like my...

kind of paranoid feeling.

I'll just have

panic attacks.

Your doctor said

that you had a multitude

of psychiatric problems.

What does

he mean by that?

Have you been diagnosed

as having a particular,

some sort of

psychiatric condition

that has a name to it

that they've told you

about or anything?

Just from what she said,

"manic-depressive,

post-traumatic

stress syndrome."

You ever hallucinate?

Yes sir, I have.

I've seen a bug

on the floor

or something,

that's usually

when I'm in a manic

or a panic attack.

It'll seem like

I'll see things out

of the corner of my eye

and it's really

not there.

Have you ever believed

that you might have been

involved somehow...

- No sir, no sir.

- ...With those

little boys dying?

You've never had any

hallucinations or anything

dealing with that?

Only nightmares of hearing

my son crying for help

and I couldn't help him

'cause I didn't know

where he was.

Michael Moore was found

in this area right here

at the bottom of the screen.

Steve branch was

found just behind

where these trees

are in the stream.

And Christopher Byers was found

just below that body right here.

- This is exhibit 22, which is...

- ( Woman gasps )

...The body

of Michael Moore,

after removing him

from the water

from where he was found.

This is the body

of Steve branch.

Steve branch is

the young man that had

the injuries to his face.

Lawyer:

Was it a particular

part of his face?

The left side

as you can see on there.

Defense exhibit 24 is

the body of Christopher Byers.

Lawyer:

And what kind of injuries

did Chris Byers have

that you observed?

It looked as though

his penis had been removed.

When they were describing

the injuries to my son,

of course I didn't see

many of the photos

but just hearing

the description,

uh, it brought back things

that had happened

to me in my past

when... ahem...

I was tortured

and when I was attacked

and when I had...

had five people

beat me up and torture me,

but I lived through it.

And it brought back

all those feelings

and all those emotions

of it happening to me.

And it was like they were

reading off what happened to me

and I lived through it instead

of what happened to Christopher.

And it was just almost

like a mental thing.

It just, uh... I basically

just had a mental breakdown

from just, you know,

from hearing it.

It was like

a living nightmare,

reliving it

all over again,

except it wasn't me that

they were reading it about.

It was my son.

Byers:

Uh, for my brain tumor.

It's been acting up,

giving me a lot of problems.

I just passed out

the other day

and busted my head open

in the house,

- blacked out,

hit the door facing.

- Jeez.

It's going to have to be

operated on soon.

- Sauls: When are

you going to do that?

- Probably after Christmas.

Sauls: Yeah?

- Is some of these

Jonesboro folks?

- Sauls: Huh?

- Byers: Is this some

of these Jonesboro folks?

- Sauls: I don't know.

- Byers: Or are they

all out from west?

- All over the place.

There's about six or eight

from Arkansas, I think.

- Sauls: We got Ohio, we got...

- Man: New Jersey.

- New Jersey.

- Illinois.

California.

Tennessee.

Byers:

They say ignorance

spreads real fast.

Hey, why are you being so mean

to us now all of a sudden

- when the cameras are rolling?

- Byers: I'm not being mean.

You're so nice to us

when the cameras are off.

I'm not being mean to you.

I'm just speaking my mind.

- You are two people.

- Byers: No.

Yeah, you are.

You were my buddy last time.

What happened?

I never said you was

my best friend, you know.

Well, you were

nice to me at least.

Now you're telling me

I'm ignorant and an idiot

and all that.

It's like when

the cameras roll

I'm an idiot,

when they're not,

we're buddies.

What's up with that?

The truth hurts.

Might as well be

on film.

Okay, so this

is the truth?

So when the cameras stop

that's not the truth?

- No.

- That's the untrue part.

- No.

- Which one's true?

The way I act

around you is one thing.

Two things.

Which one's real though?

Which one

you think's real?

- I don't know.

- Well, I guess

it'll stay a mystery then.

Okay.

Bakken: Mark, did you ever

give your bite impressions

to the defense?

Byers:

There's not going

to be any need to do that.

I'll be taking

a polygraph very soon.

And when that's all cleared,

why should I give bite marks?

Bakken: Just that

the bite marks would

exclude you absolutely.

- I think that would be good.

- Bite marks would

exclude me anyway.

I don't have any teeth.

These are dentures.

- Bakken: The bottom ones

are too?

- Yeah.

So you're going to take bite

marks of two gum prints?

- Gimme a break.

- Bakken: Or some

old dental records.

They were done before

the kids were murdered.

Strikes all

that theory out.

When did you

get your dentures?

'Cause I think I remember

on the steps you said that

that was a little...

you said it was after the kids.

Byers:

It was right then.

Bakken:

You had your dentures

right when they died?

No, I've had them

since '93... the start.

Bakken:

'Cause last time

you said it was after.

- My mistake.

- Prichason: How did you

lose your teeth?

Because I've heard you

lost 'em but not how.

Because I was taking tegretol

for my epileptic seizures.

And tegretol causes

periodontal disease

and they all started rotting

and falling and coming out.

They just fall out?

You didn't have

to pull 'em?

Yeah, you have

periodontal disease.

That's when the gums literally

move away from your teeth.

It's my understanding

that the odontologist

has now reviewed

bite-Mark impressions

from all three defendants,

compared them

with the bite Mark which

the odontologist

has identified.

And we can exclude the three

defendants who've been convicted

as the person who

made that bite Mark.

What's exciting

about this is

we now know that this kid

was bitten by someone

and this someone was not

any of the three defendants.

And it's just...

I wish and pray

that this information

would have been available

to us back at trial.

I think the result would have

been dramatically different.

Turvey:

This is the interesting thing:

Brent Davis, the prosecutor,

claims that

this is not a bite Mark.

But as frank peretti...

who performed the original

autopsy...

says, that this is

a bell-shaped pattern abrasion

that is consistent

with a belt buckle.

They're interpreting,

having... looking back

at this injury,

they're interpreting it...

and it's only a two-dimen...

this is a two-dimensional

surface.

If we were looking

at a three-dimensional surface

we would see that this

actually creates a circle

because the eye socket

curves in and curves under.

The two-dimensional photograph

makes it look like a bell shape.

Basically they're

going to put on two guys...

one of which did

the original autopsy

and missed

this bite Mark

and basically state that

this isn't a bite Mark.

The bottom line here is that

this is not legal trickery.

This is

hard physical evidence

of somebody else

committing

this crime.

Woman:

I know you've been here

for just about every hearing.

Can you tell me

your opinion on this?

I think the fact that

there's bite marks and they

don't match the three

is pretty much proof

that they didn't do this.

And the big thing now is

that for the first time

in the history of this case,

we've got

qualified experts involved.

It's as simple as that.

What does he think

it will do to his case?

Well, he knows

he's gonna be out

of prison before long.

Eventually the truth

is gonna come out.

- Woman: Are you gonna

be here till the end?

- Yes.

I'm gonna be here

however many times it takes.

- Have you been

following the case?

- No.

You know, but I seen

what happened.

- You saw what happened?

- Mm-hmm.

- What happened?

- I'm not sure if the three

boys done it or not,

but three boys were there...

excuse me...

the three boys

were there,

but there's one more that's

running around loose right now.

- And he lives here

in Jonesboro right now.

- Who he is?

Mark Byers.

You believe Mark Byers

had something to do

with this?

He-he was

holding a knife.

What more proof do you need?

He was holding a knife.

The three boys were not

holding a knife.

Mark Byers was.

- Woman #2: And how did

you witness this?

- Man: I seen it.

Man #2:

Have you told the police

what you saw?

I tried to tell the police,

but nobody wants

to listen to me.

I've tried to tell

the prosecutors, but they

don't want to listen to me.

Woman #3:

Why don't they want

to listen?

I been in an accident

before, you know,

and they think

I'm all scrambled up.

I'm probably signing

my death warrant right now.

I'm probably

doing that right now,

but I don't care.

- Woman #4:

What is your name, sir?

- But I don't care.

You can get it

somewhere else.

I have no more comments.

The guy that you just

interviewed over there?

That's "sensational."

He's like... he's just

like Jessie Misskelley.

He's a guy

who's got a story

and you're gonna...

I bet... here's my bet...

I don't know

what I'm gonna do...

we're gonna see that

on the news tonight.

I don't know

what I'm gonna do.

And it's gonna be

"big groundbreaking

revelation confession."

- And you guys are gonna...

- just as long as that's

not the only thing.

Don't pre-empt

everything else

to show that.

But I wonder if you're

gonna use any footage

that you got of Steve baker

or anything that talks

about facts

or anything that was

brought up in court today.

Any of the...

any of the "news"...

- Yes, I agree it's the news.

- ...As opposed to the fiction.

Only one news story

that I saw mentioned that

the bite-Mark impressions

did not match any

of the three boys in jail.

That was the big news

yesterday and none

of the reporters were here.

And nobody mentioned it

except for one news report

that I saw this morning

added it as an afterthought.

"Oh, and by the way,

none of the bite impressions

taken matched."

Well, see, I got that

afterwards because

I couldn't stay here.

- So I had to call someone.

And so I added in...

- but you could have asked.

- Sauls: Everybody dashed out.

- Well, we did. We came here.

Oh, I did and I put that

at the end of my story.

- I had that at

the end of my story.

- Sauls: Okay.

But in the first case,

did the state bring

their own odontologist?

No, there was never

a mention of bite marks.

They wouldn't have

brought an odontologist.

If they had

brought an odontologist,

that would have suggested

that they knew

there were bite marks

or some reason to bring one.

But there was no...

originally it was either

overlooked or ignored,

so they had no reason

to bring in an odontologist

because it wasn't mentioned

in the first trial.

When would that...

I mean, 'cause someone

told me that and...

Sauls:

Someone lied to you.

You probably saw it

on the news.

I don't...

( Laughs )

Maybe.

Announcer:

Now live from your

good neighbor station,

this is k8 news at 6.

Reporter:

It was a packed courtroom again

as supporters and families

of both victims and convicted

listened to the last day

of testimony.

The state called

two state medical examiners

who testified they did not

find any bite marks.

However, an ondontologist,

Dr. Thomas David,

testified for the defense

that in his opinion

it was a bite Mark.

The state-called

Dr. Harry mincer,

also a forensic

ondontologist,

said that it was not

a human bite Mark.

While the state and defense

seesaw back and forth,

Damien's supporters

remain optimistic.

- How are you doing?

- Byers: Fine.

Good.

Okay, here's the deal:

- They're gonna talk

to me from New York.

- Mm-hmm.

You're not gonna

be talking to me.

We're gonna put an earpiece in.

You're gonna

hear Gregg Jarrett.

He's the host in New York.

His name Gregg.

You can just call him Gregg,

if you want to.

- Gotcha.

- And when you

answer his questions

just look at the camera

instead of me.

- Okay?

- No problem.

Act like I've done it

a hundred times.

You have done it

a hundred times.

Run this down

your shirt...

- Tim: Is he all right?

- He's fine. He's fine

where he is.

Is my son's

picture good?

We're joined now

by John Mark Byers,

adoptive father of the victim

Christopher Byers.

Thank you for taking

the time with us.

- Mark, go ahead.

- Mr. Byers?

- They didn't ask me.

- Mr. Byers, do you hear me?

He hasn't said

a word to me.

- Can you hear him?

- No, there's nothing

coming through here.

Obviously we're having

some technical difficulties.

Man:

Mr. Byers, can you hear me?

This is New York.

- Mr. Byers?

- He's not speaking to me.

- Tim, can you...?

- Yeah, I can hear you, Gregg.

- Can you hear

them now, Mr. Byers?

- No, I cannot.

You're okay, Timmy.

Don't worry about your Mike.

- I got you dead.

- Can you hear him now?

So let's get it

checked in and we'll go

for the third block.

- Does that make sense, Tim?

- Yeah, that's fine.

- See if his thing is kinked.

- Mr. Sauls is gonna join us.

It'll be

in two minutes.

( Production chatter )

- Timmy, you still

got me right?

- I got ya, dom, I got ya.

- Mr. Sauls can you

hear me, sir?

- Yes.

- You can.

- Yes.

- And, Mr. Byers, can you

hear me, sir?

- Yes, I can.

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Byers

joins us again.

Hopefully we've solved

the technical problem.

- Can you hear me now?

- Yes, I can.

What do you think of echols

and the defense team

saying you're the killer?

I have a very

good answer for that:

I'm 6'8"

and weigh 252 lbs.

I'm the largest

red herring

they've ever thrown

in a jury box.

Someone else

to take the jury's mind

off the three

real murderers.

All right,

joining us now also is,

in Jonesboro, burk Sauls.

He helps run the free

the west Memphis three

support fund.

Do you believe

that Mr. Byers is

the real killer?

I don't really...

that's not the point

of what we're doing here.

I'm not here

to accuse anyone.

That's actually what happened

to these three guys.

One of things that I guess

a lot of people can't get over

is one of the three defendants...

all three were convicted...

Jessie Misskelley

confessed.

Uh, how do you

account for that?

Well, to the experts that

testified in the trial

it was a... it was a...

to them it was a...

a forced confession.

It was coerced.

What was coercive

about it?

For one thing, there was

a timeline problem

where he stated it

happened early in the day

and they led him

down to the time

that they wanted him to say

that it had happened.

And he eventually

gave 'em what they wanted.

I want to thank all of you

for being with us.

We appreciate it.

Coming up next

on "prime time justice,"

President Clinton's war

with independent counsel

Ken Starr

isn't over yet.

( Music playing )

Grinnell:

I really appreciate what

y'all have done for them.

I think just the fact

that we live in Los Angeles

where there may be some talents,

that we can probably

help this case out

somewhat.

Pam:

I know at the airport yesterday

there was a young guy

that walked past us

and he had on a black shirt,

black pants,

black trench coat

and black boots.

And I thought...

( Gasps )

"You get in trouble

in that at some places."

Bakken:

Yeah, welcome to L.A.

50% of the people

that live here dress

like that.

We were like, "well,

there's a guy wearing all black.

There's a woman wearing

all black.

There's another

guy wearing all black."

It's a flattering color.

Pam:

A lot of the reason

that Damien wore the black

was because someone told him

that he was sexy in the black.

And then he wore it

most of the time.

Pashley:

That's your argument.

That's your argument

that these guys are guilty.

It's like, "come on,

how silly is this?"

So... and of course

it was the media,

that portrayed these guys

to start, anything that...

That's what did it.

And I couldn't

believe all the...

they overwhelmed us

from the very beginning

when they arrested 'em

- and the media attacked them.

- Yeah.

See, now it's our turn

to use the media

to our advantage.

'Cause the first time

around there was

no critical thinking.

They just reported

whatever they might

have heard or a rumor.

And they report it

and you hear it on the news

and you think it's true.

Well, now we have

the "Leeza" show

to show fact.

For once. You know,

it's not emotional.

It's not about

how people feel.

It's about facts.

And we're glad to have

you guys here too.

It's really important to have

your guys' voices be heard.

- Bakken: Are you guys

nervous about the show?

- Very.

Just be yourselves.

You'll do good.

Sauls:

You'll be fine.

- You still a little nervous?

- ( Elevator dings )

Very. I'm very nervous.

( Theme music playing )

- ( Applause )

- Leeza: Hello, everyone.

Thank you.

Thanks for joining us

once again.

Stidham:

How do you feel like

the "leeza" show went?

- Do you think it went well or?

- I thought it really well.

You could hear people

in the background

that didn't know

anything about the case,

you could hear 'em

coming along as they

presented stuff.

Like the first...

when the mothers

were out there,

there was sort

of some skepticism.

You could kind

of hear 'em talking,

like no one was sure whether

to believe it or not.

And then as more

and more came out and you guys

were talking more,

you could hear people

starting to get angry.

What was the audience

reaction about the...

when they learned

that all three defendants

had been excluded

from making the bite Mark?

It was like,

"match the bite Mark,

find the killer."

I mean, I think

everybody got that.

It was like

"okay, so the kids don't

match the bite Mark."

I think

it sort of sunk in

that that means...

the kid shouldn't have

a bite Mark on his face.

He didn't leave home

with a big fat bite Mark

on his face.

If they missed that,

what else did they miss?

So did you guys see anything

in Byers' interview,

like, did you guys notice

the conflicting stories?

What did you

read from that?

Did you get

anything from that?

Well, obviously, I think

he's a little mixed up

- about his felony history.

- ( Both laugh )

I noticed Byers wasn't

wearing his teeth

in the interview.

- That's true.

- Now what happened

with his teeth, do you know?

Well, there's several

different versions

of what happened.

The first version

that I heard was

he got 'em knocked out

in a fight.

He changes his story.

First, a long time

ago he said

he got 'em knocked out

in a fight.

Then he told leeza that he

had 'em surgically removed.

And he told me that

he had taken tegretol

and that they had just

kind of rotted out.

- Oh boy.

- Burk and grove

told me last night

that something about Byers

had left his teeth somewhere

and that's why he didn't have

them on during the taping.

What was

the story on that?

I think the producers

of the show said that

um, Byers had told them

that he left them in

a restaurant somewhere.

And so his last parting words

to the producers

when he was

leaving the show,

which he had done

without his teeth, is

"I'm not leavin' L.A.

without my teeth!"

The test is

about to begin.

Is this the month

of October?

Yes.

Regarding those deaths,

do you intend

to answer truthfully

each question about that?

Yes.

Other than what

we've talked about,

did you ever wish

any person would die?

No.

Did you harm

any of those boys?

No.

Other than what

we've talked about,

did you ever think

about hurting anyone?

No.

Did you harm any

of those boys found

at Robin hood hills?

No.

The test is over.

Remain seated,

looking straight ahead.

Bakken:

Here's the website.

This is how all

the people find us.

They can come on here

and they can read about

everything that's

been going on.

Sauls:

It's a pretty

good synopsis of...

- Mm-hmm.

- ...Of our involvement

and what happened.

Bakken:

We have an individual page

for each...

Damien, Jason and Jessie.

They each have their own page.

Then there's

different links,

like the college fund

for Damien.

You know his...

where it stands

right now with him.

- That's a really

good picture of Damien.

- Man: That's a good picture.

- Oh yeah,

that looks good.

- Bakken: Kind of dapper.

Here's Jason's page.

He has some poems that we got.

So we have an extra page

just for his poetry.

I never dreamed

he could write poetry

the way he does.

Bakken:

Read his poem.

"An electric charge

is in the air

the scent

of burning ozone,

the deep bass

of thunder rumbles,

we feel it

in our stomach.

The wind picks up,

the clouds choke up

to blot out

the blue skies.

The rain pours down,

drenching my soul.

You are there

and I no longer

face the storm alone."

Mark, are you

feeling better?

You got that arm

straightened out

- and had that smoke?

- The thing's remarkable.

- Congratulations.

- Well, thank you, sir.

I don't, uh... according

to what we have here,

your responses

on the chart,

I feel you're

telling the truth

about the issues

we worked with

as far as you see them.

As you see them.

Give me a high-five.

Thank you!

I knew it was right.

I knew

I was innocent.

And to all of you morons,

fools and idiots

that thought I had

anything to do with it,

I am now vindicated.

Maybe this'll serve a point

to some of y'all.

And I feel sorry

and my heart goes out

to the victims

that have to be put through

things such as this

to just already

try to clear my name

when it's already been

vindicated once...

now it's been vindicated twice

by a professional

who I have

the utmost respect for.

And I want each and every one

of you devil-worshippers to know

that you are wrong

and you need to go

on another ghost-hunt

and leave me alone.

( Beeps )

Computer voice:

Your call is being connected.

Thank you for using MCI.

- Hello?

- Damien: Hello.

- Bakken: How are you doing?

- Am I on speakerphone?

- Bakken: Yes.

- Pashley: Hey, Damien.

- Bakken: Your mom's here.

- Yes, say hi.

- Hi, son.

- Hello.

- How are you doing?

- Okay, I suppose.

- You okay?

- Pam: I miss you.

Yeah, I'm okay.

- Are you okay?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- ( Crying )

I miss you.

- Miss you too.

I don't want to hear

any of that either.

I know you lie every time

you come here too,

whenever you say you're not

gonna cry on the way home.

But then you get out

in the parking lot...

- ( Whispers )

And you cry.

- Not every time.

- ( Sniffs )

- Why are you crying?

I just miss you.

I miss you too,

but I'm not doing all that.

Calm down.

- I love you.

- I love you, baby.

- Calm down.

- I'm okay. ( Sniffling )

- Stop crying.

- Computer voice: You have

exceeded your time limit.

- I'm not crying.

- Man: This call is

being terminated.

- Woman's voice:

Your call is terminated.

- ( Dial tone )

Byers:

Now that I live alone,

I have a lot

of time on my hands

for my own demise

or for my own

well-being,

whichever I so choose.

I so choose for my welfare

and my well-being

rather than my demise.

You might wonder

what do I do with

all my spare time.

Well, I still

enjoy singing.

And I took several songs

and put 'em together,

went to a studio here

in the town I live in

and I recorded a song

that meant a lot to me

and has been

a great blessing

of faith and hope,

that has helped me

through every day.

And there's not a day go by

that I don't listen to it

or sing it or at least try

to remember part of it.

And if you'd like,

I'll sing a little

of this song for you today.

- This came

after hours of work...

- ( Music playing )

...and $45.

And you can have

anything made.

♪ Amazing grace ♪

♪ shall always be ♪

♪ my song of praise ♪

♪ for it was grace ♪

♪ that bought

my Liberty ♪

♪ I do not know ♪

♪ just why he came ♪

♪ to love me so ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault ♪

♪ and saw my needs ♪

♪ I shall forever lift ♪

♪ my eyes to Calvary ♪

♪ to view the cross ♪

♪ where Jesus died for me ♪

♪ I'm on the last terrain ♪

♪ that caught

my falling soul ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault

and saw my need ♪

♪ he looked beyond ♪

♪ my fault ♪

♪ and saw my need... ♪

- ( Clears throat )

- ( Music ends )

Every new little piece

of information

that surfaces

with this case

points away

from the three guys

who are currently serving

prison sentences.

And one of 'em's

on death row.

If the three defendants

ever got out,

uh, and were released

I would be sick.

I wasn't convinced

from the evidence

that it was

a bite Mark.

And so ruled.

The west Memphis police

are never going to admit

they botched this up.

They're not ever gonna admit

that they got the wrong people.

I'll watch you,

you bastard, Damien echols,

take your last breath,

you lowlife son of a bitch.

If I were released today,

I would kind of want

to just blend into obscurity.

I wouldn't want

to be remembered.

You know, I wouldn't want

to walk down the street

and have someone say,

"hey, you're that kid

that was on death row

that they made

that documentary about."

( Music playing )