Kurt Cobain About a Son (2006) - full transcript

I never intended to have some
kind of a mystery about us.

It's just that I didn't have
anything to say, in the beginning.

And now, that it's gone on long enough,
then there's actually a story ...

... in a way. I mean, still I think,
every night that you leave I think:

God, my life's so fucking boring.

There is so many people that I know...

We don't deserve to have
a book written about us.

I know that I have to talk about
details of my life.

You know, I enjoy talking
to you ... but I don't

... I don't think I'm going to be
any more open with ...

with my personal life in any other
interview in the future.



Because people don't fucking
deserve to know ...

really. I mean, it's none of
their goddamn business ...

... what my personal life
is like, now.

Fuck them!

They don't need to know
everything about me.

♪I don't want a pickle♪

♪Just wanna ride on my motorcycle♪

♪I don't want a tickle♪

♪'Cause I'd rather ride on my motorcycle♪

♪And I don't wanna die♪

♪Just wanna ride on my motorcycle♪

I always wanted to think
that I was an alien.

I used to think when I was young that
I was adopted by my mother, ...

because they found me
and a spaceship ...



... let me on a hustle(?)
on a different planet.

I wanted to be(?) from
a different planet really bad.

Every night I used to talk to my real
parents and my real family in the skies.

I knew that there were thousands of
other alien babies dropped off.

And they're all over the place.
And I've met quite a few of 'em.

It's just something that I always liked
to toy with in my mind.

It was really fun
to pretend that, you know.

There's a special reason for me
to be here...

... and I feel really homesick
all the time.

And so do the other aliens.
And I only have a chance to ...

come across a handful of other aliens

throughout the rest of my life.

... Eventually one day we'll find out
what we're supposed to do.

Until I was about 8 years old
I had an extremely happy childhood.

A really good one, with a
totally affectionate mother.

And she was totally supportive and
helping me do art.

I was always drawing and reading and
she was really into supporting me and ...

I had a great time, a really good
childhood during that time.

I had everything in focus,
I knew exactly what I was going to do

and nothing could stop me.

And I knew that I could do whatever I
wanted 'cause the world was really small...

... and things just happened to have
laid down before me with luck ...

... and I didn't have any problem,

there were no obstacles
in my life, at that time.

I was never really a bad kid.

but I did things like, you know,
I would take ...

... a ??? can and fill it
full with rocks ...

... and stand behind a fence
and throw it at cars.

I had this thing about cops, too.

I had this saying called
"Corn on the cops.

Corn on the cops. The cops are
coming, they're gonna kill you."

I used to take those cans and throw them
at cop cop cars, whenever I saw them.

And every time I saw a cop
I'd start singing that ...

... pointing at them and tell them
that they were evil.

My aunt Mary ...

... I guess you would call her
an aspiring musician ...

... she was in a lot of bar bands
in Aberdeen ...

... and she was definitely the most
helpful person in my life ...

... as far as music
because she gave me ...

... an electric Hawaiian guitar and an
amplifier when I was like 8 years old.

... and she was the one responsible for
giving me the Beatles records.

And she gave me a bass drum ...

... and I'd strap that on and walk around
with the Elmer's Fudd hat on...

... and my dad's tennis shoes.

And beat on the drum, walk around the
neighborhood singing Beatles songs.

When I was a lot younger I thought
for sure I can be a rock star.

There was no problem, because
I was so hyperactive ...

and the world was in my hands.
I could do anything.

You know, I knew that I could
be the president, if I wanted to.

But that was stupid idea.

You know, rather be a rock star.

I didn't understand my environment,
What was lying ahead.

What kind of alienation I would feel
when I was a teenager ...

because I thought of Aberdeen as
like any other city in America.

I thought they were all the same.

Everyone just got along and ...

... there wasn't nearly as much of
violence as there actually was and ...

... it would be really easy ...

... and I thought the U.S. was about
as big as my backyard, you know.

So there would be no problem ...

... to drive all over the place and
play in a rock band ...

... and be on the cover
of magazines and stuff, so ...

I had the conditioning
at an early stage ...

... but then when I started becoming
this manic depressive at 9 years old ...

... I didn't look at it that way.

I've always thought, like,
my generation was the very last ...

... innocent generation, you know.

When there was television that wasn't
violent. We didn't have cable.

We had 'Sesame Street' and 'Speed Racer'
and ??? and stuff and that's it.

Everything was a total phantasy.

Everything was just ... very basic ...
just medieval compared to things nowadays.

Kids are so advanced and expected to be
so much more advanced than they are.

I was spanked all the time.

My dad would ... in my social situations
or at restaurants or something,

if I'd spill ... a glass of water
or something

... he'd give my a headlock and ...
dig his knuckles into my head ...

or smack me in the face.

I never understood that, why ...

... a parent would ... be so
embarrassed or so intimidated ...

by ... what other people would think
of you in a restaurant ...

... just because your child spills
something on accident ...

... to have to punish them for
having an accident.

That's a weird psychological
trick to play a child ...

... because ... I still ...

... put myself down and cuss
myself out for knocking things over.

I get really upset with myself ...

... because I've been conditioned
to not spill things, not ...

... don't have accidents,
don't have human error.

Everything's supposed to be perfect
at all times, you know.

Fuck him for that.

He was a tallyman at
Mill(?) Brothers windmill.

So basically he just
walked around all day counting logs.

His idea of father-and-son
day out would be ...

... to take me to work
on Saturdays and Sundays ...

... and I would sit in his office
while he went and counted logs.

Like, quite exciting weekend!

Oh, I drew pictures and made
prank phone calls.

And then I would go out into the
warehouse where they'd stacked 2-by-4s.

You know, really high up into the air
and I would pretend that I was ...

... being chased or chasing robbers ...

... and cops and pretend to be
Superman or any other super-hero.

That was about as exiting
as it got.

♪You say you love me♪

♪And I hardly know your name♪

♪And if I say I love you in the candle light♪

♪There's no-one but myself to blame♪

♪But there's something inside♪

Then I would take a nap in the van
or listen to Queen ...

... "News of the world" on ?-track ...

... over and over again and
drain the battery on the van.

Then we'd be stuck. It happened a few times

we would get stuck after ??? dead battery
you know, listening to Queen too much.

♪It's late♪

♪And I'm bleeding deep inside♪

♪It's late♪

♪Is it just my sickly pride?♪

♪- Too late♪
♪- Even now the♪

♪feeling seems to steal away♪

♪- So late♪
♪- Though I'm crying♪

♪I can't help but hear you say♪

♪It's late, It's late, It's late,♪

♪But not too late♪

I never felt I really
had a father, you know.

I've never had a father figure
who I could share things with.

It's hard to remember anything up until
I was 7 years old and ...

... that was the time I was
actually living with him ...

... and he was my dad
and I had a mother and father ...

... and after that I lived with
him for a short time ...

... and then he got married
and after that I was, you know ...

... like one of the last things ...
of importance ... on his list.

If it was me, if I was in that situation
with Courtney and Frances ...

... I still, for the rest of my life,

... would go out on my way
to try to contact Frances ...

... and try to have a relationship
with her ...

... and share things with her ...

... you know, and he just gave up.

♪And tell me that we're through♪

♪It's late♪

♪And it's driving me so mad♪

♪It's late♪ ...

I just want him to know that, that I
don't have anything against him, any more.

But I just don't wanna
talk to him, because ...

... I don't have anything
to share with him.

I'm sure that would probably really upset
him, but ... it's just the way it is.

All these kids my age found themselves
asking the question, at the same time:

"Why the fuck are my parents
getting divorced? What's going on? ...

... All my other friends' parents
are getting divorces, too.

Something's not right."

Somehow the way that
our parents were brought up ...

... isn't the way it's supposed to be.

They fucked up, somehow.

They were living in
a phantasy world ...

... so they must have
done something wrong.

They got a divorce, they had to ??? their
oaths, just like my mom did ...

... they had to start
drinking when they were 30 ...

... and ...

... really confused, and going -
and fucking up ...

... over and over again with
raising their children as teenagers ...

... because they don't understand
the things that those kids need.

I mean, I remember all my friends
asking that same question ...

...like 7 years old ...

... and it's really an unnecessary time
to be asking that, you know.

It was just a plague.
It was a total disease.

♪Downed, downed♪

♪out of my head♪

♪'Round, 'round♪

♪out of my head♪

♪Too many people want to save the world♪

♪Another problem is it a boy or girl♪

♪Some say the weekend is the only world♪

♪It's such a strange strain on you♪

My story is exactly the same as
90% of everyone my age.

These kids had the same
exact kind of problems.

They smoked pot for a few years
during high school...

They grew up during the era where there
was massive communist threat ...

... and everyone thought we're gonna
die from nuclear war ...

... and more and more violence started to
infuse in our society and ...

... everyone's reaction is the same.

I don't think our musical version
of that was any different than ...

... any of the other bands that have
come out the same time we have.

I don't think we're much more special ...

... as far as having that same kind of
damage. It's the same ...

But we got more attention
because our songs have hooks ...

... they stick to people's minds.

Doing PE [physical education] in 8th grade,
I was jumping rope ...

... and all of a sudden
my back gave out ...

... and I had to
go to the hospital ...

because I couldn't breathe.
It felt like it actually broke.

But I'd slip a disk ...

... and then I went to
chiropractor that week ...

... and I found out that I had scoliosis.

And I was supposed to wear a brace
but I didn't want to ...

... and it just so happens that my guitar
playing actually contributed...

... to the rate of my scoliosis growth.

It actually helped it curve more ...

because the weight of the guitar
pushing down on the left side of me ...

made it go like this (?)
so I'm even more deformed.

I have always had
a pain.

I wasn't imagining it.

I was in pain all the time.

I probably psychologically decided...

... to trade off my spine pain
for my stomach pain.

Once my stomach started up, it was
so much more intense than the spine ...

... I haven't thought about my back
for a long time.

I always thought that I had a tendency to
eventually become schizophrenic ...

because I just felt so nervous
all the time ...

I had all these nervous habits.

I once had these compulsive disorder
things that I would do.

Just popping my knuckles and
itching my face and

flicking my hair. I mean, I just
trade off the nervous habits like that.

It was a mixture of like ...
hating people so much ...

because they didn't ..
live up to my expectations ...

... and just being so fed up with ...

... being around the same
kind of idiot all the time.

I mean, everyone is just a
??? copy of one another.

It was obvious in my face
and how I reacted towards people ...

... that I couldn't stand them, you know.

I had this personal vendetta against them
because they were so macho ...

... and manly ...
and stupid ...

I started to be aware of this,
that people were noticing that ...

... I had this hatred towards
a lot of people ...

... and it was pretty much the general
consensus with everyone that knew me ...

that I couldn't stand them.
I was really edgy all the time.

... and so I just started feeling
really ... neurotic ...

... like paranoid in a way ...

because they knew that I was going to
freak out at any time.

They always thought I was, like,
this kid who would most likely ...

... succeed to ... bring an AK-47
to the school ...

... and blow everybody away.

It wouldn't have been unusual at all ...

... if I would have found at least one
kid with a wacky haircut, you know.

If I could have found
just one punk rocker!

I wanted to fit in somewhere,
but not with the average kid.

Not with the popular
kid at school.

I wanted to fit in with the geeks
but the geeks were 'sub-geeks' ...

in Aberdeen, you know, they were ...
the average geek.

They weren't the type of kid
who would listen to Devo.

They were just usually deformed.

Luckily I found
a gay friend ...

... who basically saved me from
wanting to kill myself half the time.

Apparently everyone in high school
knew he was gay ...

... but they just didn't
bother to tell me ...

... or I just didn't bother
to notice, you know ...

... until he decided to make a pass
at me, one night ....

... and I just flatly told him
that I wasn't gay ...

... but I'd still be his friend.

After that I started to realize
that people were looking at me ...

... even more peculiarly
than usual.

And then I started getting...
I started to get brassed.

Like, some of the people ...
especially in gym class ...

they felt threatened because
they were naked ...

... and I was supposably gay, so ...

They'd either better cover up
their penises ... or punch me.

Or both.

But after that I started being
proud of the fact that I was gay ...

... even though I wasn't.

I really enjoyed the conflict.

Pretty exciting.

Because I almost
found my identity.

I was a special geek, you know.

Wasn't quite the punk-rocker
I was looking for, but ...

... at least it was better than, you know,
being the average geek.

One time my mom knew that
I was smoking pot ...

... she tried all these
psychological angles (?) ...

... to try to get me to stop ...

... and she had some pot ...
she had some in her jewelry jar (?) ...

... and I would sneak it out every time,

I'd take a little piece out
every once in a while...

... I'd replace it with oregano.

Eventually she's had a bag of oregano
sitting in her jewelry jar.

During one night she offered
me to come down ...

... with my friend Myer
to smoke some pot with her ...

... and she knew it was oregano ...

... but we didn't know
that she knew that ...

... so we had to sit there and
smoke oregano with her.

But we never got high together,

we didn't smoke pot,
we weren't pot buddies or anything.

The only other time I remember
my mom and pot was ...

... I had a whole 8th of
'Aberdeen Hard Buds' ...

... laying on the table. I was having a party
with Myer and a couple of our friends ...

... they were drinking and we were playing
this pot game like a bong game, you know.

And she came up really drunk
and obnoxious ...

... and she just had something
against me, that night.

She just said I'd be a jerk.

And she came up and, like, was
giving this glassy eyed stare...

... and took my pot and just took a big
chunk of it and swallowed it ...

... and got so stick (?) and high.

-- She told me
that story, yeah ...

That'll teach her.

-- Yeah, really.

There was one teacher ...

... she just appreciated kids
who had original stories.

She was an English teacher
and she just ...

... I would write really insane,
almost offensive stories ...

... and she just loved 'em.

She'd keep me after class ...

... and we would talk for hours.

She was really great.

The only other teacher that I liked
was my senior ... junior and senior

... Commercial art teacher.

He was really supportive, too.

He used me as an example,
all the time...

... and he would submit my artwork
to different art contests...

... throughout the states ...

... behind my back ...

... without my consent ...

... I wasn't into that kind of
competition thing at all...

... so he would do it behind my back and
then give me the ribbons or the trophies.

My family was certain that
I was gonna go to art school...

... but at that time I was so
heavily into punk rock ...

that I decided I wanted to be
in a band instead.

I had two scholarships
waiting for me.

I didn't have any real
intentions in doing them.

I made my mind up at the beginning
of the year that I wasn't gonna go.

-- And what was that ???
in the family?

I was immediately kicked out.

Not so much probably because
I didn't go to art school ...

... but just because I wasn't
doing much with my life.

I didn't have very many ...
ambitions ...

... in the eyes of my parents ...

... although I did.

I was totally into music ...

... and just trying desperately
to start a band.

They just didn't see
that was anything relevant at all.

As soon as I got my guitar
I just became so obsessed with it ...

... and I stuck with it
for so many years ...

... every single night for a few hours,
every day, you know ...

... until I went to bed I had played my
guitar, it's all I ever did.

I wanted to get into punk rock
for a long time ...

because I had the subscription from
"Creem Magazine" ...

... so I would sit in my room and ...

... pretend to play punk --
or what my ...

... what I thought was
punk rock on my guitar.

Which actually turns out
to be pretty similar.

It's just noise. Three chord noise ...

... and screaming ...

And I just felt that that's what
punk rock might be.

During one of my moves between
Aberdeen and Montesano ...

... which is about 20 miles [30 Km]
away from Aberdeen ...

... it's a smaller logging town ...

... I moved it to Montesano and met
Buzz ... Osborne ['Melvins'' singer] ...

... and he turned me onto ..

... tunes in (?) punk rock
by making some compilation tapes for me.

♪My family's just a little weird♪

♪Daddy wears a dress and♪
♪Mommy grows a beard♪

♪All our neighbors♪
♪they complain all the time♪

♪Really don't understand my kind♪

♪Little brother's thrown♪
♪out of school♪

♪Drownin' kiddies in the kiddie pool♪

♪Big brother lives in city jail♪

♪Mom and dad won't pay his bail♪

♪Big sister complains all the time♪

♪She's hooked on barbs and wine♪

♪All my aunts are lying whores♪

♪All my uncles are drinking bores♪

♪Grandma sells dope to high school kids♪

♪Grandpa don't care,♪
♪his mind's on the skids♪

♪No one seems to understand♪

♪Not sure if I'm a woman or a man♪

It took me a few days to accept it.

I really wanted to like it.

It was like a different world.
It was like ...

...all of a sudden listening to
something from a different planet ...

I sensed that it was ...
speaking ...

... more clearly and more realistic than
the average Rock 'n' Roll lyric.

By the end
of the week I was ...

... a certified self-proclaimed
punk rocker.

Yeah, I mean, oh god it's just ...
I'm so glad that ....

... I got into punk rock
at the time that I did ...

because it gave me those
few years that I needed to grow up ...

... and just put my values
in perspective and realize ...

... what kind of a person I am.

♪Banned in D.C.♪
♪with a thousand more places to go.♪

♪Gonna swim across the Atlantic, ♪
♪cause that's the only place I can go.♪

♪You - you can't hurt me♪

♪Moi - I'm banned in D.C.♪

♪Say, say♪

♪We - we got ourselves♪

♪gonna sing it, gonna love it, ♪
♪gonna work it out to any length.♪

♪Don't worry, no worry, ♪
♪about what people say.♪

♪We got ourselves, ♪
♪we gonna make it anyway♪

♪You - you can't hurt me♪

♪Moi - I'm banned in D.C.♪

♪D.C., D.C.♪

Actually becoming a punk rocker ...

... fed into my low self-esteem ...

because it helped me realize that I don't
need to become a rock star, you know, ...

... I don't want to become a rock star.

Not that I can't, you know, ...

because I don't have enough ...
I don't have enough guts, you know.

So I'm always fighting this ...

... thin line that was always, like, ...

... on the left or right side of ...

... not caring and not wanting to
and not being able to ...

... still wanting to prove
myself to people.

I always knew that I was doing
something that was special ...

... I knew that I had
something to offer ...

... and I knew eventually I would have
that opportunity to show people ...

... that I could write good songs ...

... or I could at least contribute
something, musically.

-- When did you meet Krist?

I remember seeing him in high school ...

... a few times ...

... and I think he was definitely
somebody I wanted to meet.

But I never saw him
other than at pep assemblies.

He would usually participate
in some kind of a skit, or something ...

... and I remember thinking: God, he was
this really clever funny loudmouthed person.

I kept - you know, always making it obvious
that I wanted to be in a band ...

... I wanted someone to play with ...

... but still Krist never wanted to.

Until I made the "Fecal Matter" tape
with Dale [Crover, "Melvins"]

and always making it available
for Krist to hear ...

... and he just never bothered
to listen to it ...

... until one day he just came over
and said:

"I finally listened to that
tape you made.

"It's pretty good", you know,
"we should start a band."

Ok, finally!

♪There's a place up ahead and I'm goin'♪

♪Just as fast as my feet can fly♪

♪Come away, come away if you're goin'♪

♪Leave the sinkin' ship behind♪

♪Come on the risin' wind♪

♪We're goin' up around the bend♪

-- And so the band started there.

Were you guys jamming together
before that?

When we had the
Creedence Clearwater band ...

... we jammed in Krist's house ...

... in Aberdeen. He had this really
big huge house, that ...

was so fucking cold - it was
in the middle of winter and ...

... you could literally see holes in the
walls where the air was coming through.

And then I got a job at ...

... the "Polynesian Resort" ...

... it was at an ocean shores.

That really sucked.
I hated that.

But I got away with
not working very often, at all ...

because I mainly ...

... swept out the chimneys
in every room of the hotel ...

... so they had no idea
where I was ...

... during the entire
8 hours that I was working.

Then most of the time ...

... people wouldn't even use
their fireplaces ...

... so I would just ...

... clean out a few fireplaces, run
through the building really fast ...

... and then lie down and sleep for a few
hours and watch television.

It was a great job!

-- That's so rude.

They eventually caught on ...

and started monitoring me.

Then I got caught.

-- And that was that?
-- Mhm.

I've always been an
extremely lazy person ...

when it comes to work.

But [it's not so much] the job itself.

It's trying to stay away
from the co-workers.

I've always had
this terrible ...

relationship with co-workers.

I just cannot get along with ...

... average people.

You know, they just bother --

They get on my nerves so bad ...

I just can't
ignore them, at all.

I have to confront them and...

... and just tell them
that I hate their guts ...

... or not talk to them.

I didn't have any place to live
for like ...

... almost the entire winter.

I just slept on people's couches ...

... and slept on the back of
Dale's porch in a box.

And just all over the place.

It was cool, because ...

... it was just convenient ...

to stay on people's couches ...

... because I would end up
buying beer ...

... and then we would drink
that night and that beer ...

... at someone's house and
I'd just stay overnight ...

... and then go somewhere else,
the next day ...

and I'd just, like, go back and forth
between everybody's houses.

But I mean, after a while, after a couple
of months I wore my welcome out ...

... and then I was pretty destitute.

I was sleeping under the bridge,
a while and it was ...

... one of the coldest winters
I can remember, too.

It was really fucking cold.

I remember just walking around during the
daytime with absolutely nothing to do ...

... and I always ended up at the library.

I'd spend so much time at the library ...

... just sitting there, reading and...

... just waiting for the
day to end.

♪I was born in this town♪

♪Live here my whole life♪

♪Probably come to die in this town♪

♪Live here my whole life♪

♪Never anything to do in this town♪

I was kind of proud of myself ...

... to be able to survive ...

... without having to have a job.

Because I was just living out
the Aberdeen phantasy version ...

of being a punk rocker, you know.

It was really easy.

I mean, it's nothing compared to
what most kids are ...

... subjected to, after they run away
to the big city.

I was constantly asking the friends -
the few friends that I had ...

... if they would move
to Seattle with me.

I desperately wanted to go
to Seattle ...

because I knew that's
where the action was, you know.

But no one would go with me ...

... and I was just too afraid
to go by myself.

I was always ...
just totally poor ...

... and always in a small
grungy dirty place.

It was fun, though.

I mean, I was a bachelor
for the first time.

On my own.

-- Yeah, your mom said you were really
happy when you moved into that place.

Mhm.

Also because I had a band and ...

yeah, I just felt independent.

I mean, I remember ...

... years ago ...

... like, asking Eric Shilinger:

"How successful do you think a band
could be, like, if they ...

... if they mixed really heavy
Black Sabbath with The Beatles, you know?

I mean, what would we be able
to do with that?

I mean, I want to be able to do
all different kinds of music.

I want to be kind of like
Led Zeppelin in a way...

... but be totally extreme
punk rock ...

... and then do real
wimpy pop songs and...

and it just doesn't seem
like it would work ...

... because no one would be able to tell
that you are the same band and ...

at that point I knew that we
didn't really have a unique sound.

I didn't think that
we were really original.

I asked a lot of people about this ...

... and I was always
toying with the idea.

-- That's interesting,
cause, you know ...

a lot of people, when I asked ???
what was Kurt like ...

... back then ...

they always said: "He just didn't give
a shit what anyone thought."

No, I definitely thought about
what people might think

... of my music ...

... because I knew that ...

... in order to do exactly
what I really wanted to do ...

... I needed to get
some kind of fan base, you know.

I mean, I couldn't have used those
terms, back then.

I didn't understand the way
music works ...

... and how you get an audience.

We knew we'd eventually start doing
exactly what we wanted to do ...

... no matter what and ...

... we didn't give a fuck if
anyone liked it or not ...

... but we still wanted to try
to please people, at first, you know ...

... to see what would happen.

Oh, I just remembered our first show!

It was Erin Burkhard's (?) friend's
house, way out in the woods.

That was the best time!

God, that was so great! We had everyone
so scared and they'd sit there ...

... in the kitchen,
hiding from us.

We had to run through (?) the entire
living room to the rest of the house.

There's like 50 stoners ...

... in the kitchen,
just hiding from us ...

cause we're making so much noise ...

We're so drunk.

Shelly and Tracy started
making out ...

... and I would jump up on top of the table
and they would, like, caress me and ...

... just making total fools
out of ourselves.

And of course, by the end
of the evening ...

... most of the girls at this -
at the party ...

... talked their boyfriends into
wanting to beat us up ...

"It's time to pack up
and leave, boys!"

I just became obsessed
with turtles ...

... one month, decided to buy
about 5, 6 of them ...

... and then I put them in a bathtub
in the middle of the living room.

They're real docile.

they don't move,
they show no emotion.

They're so inanimate, you know.

They're just the stupidest idea
of a pet.

That is the complete opposite
of what dogs are.

I can't stand dogs for some reason.

They're just too willing to please ...

... and you could do anything to them.

I like cats and animals
that require attention.

You know, you have to
take care of them ...

... and basically they just have this
'fuck you' attitude.

'So I'm stuck in this tank,
I'm miserable ...

... I hate you
and I'm not gonna perform for you.

Those shells really aren't
that helpful.

It's real sensitive
and if you knock on them, it hurts them.

So it really isn't the protective
covering that everyone thinks it is.

They fall on their back,
they'll split it open and die.

I always looked forward
to going to Olympia ...

... because it was a taste of culture.

And there was ...
a 'scene'.

It was something that was unique ...

... that you couldn't find anywhere
else in the states.

For about three years I've been
going to the school a lot ...

... on weekends
and seeing bands ...

... and hanging out with some friends.

I started hanging out with
this girl, Tracy ...

... we eventually became boyfriend
and girlfriend ...

... and I moved up to Olympia
with her.

I can relate to the town itself,
I mean, ...

... just because there was so much
appreciation for art.

There was culture for the first time
and I was living in a town that had that.

It was really a
good experience.

I felt relieved.

♪I knew exactly what I was doing♪

♪But I didn't know what I had done♪

♪I know one thing and one thing only♪

♪That I need you and want you♪

♪Right over here♪

♪Put some sugar on it honey♪

♪Put some honey on it sugar♪

♪I like it sweet♪
♪'n' baby, oh baby♪...

Everyone seemed to have
the same basic ideals and ...

... motivations.

There was just this community of
geeks.

Students who were
outcasts and ...

... they were outcasts from
the punk rock world, too, because ...

... they were into this, like,
Jad Fair type of stuff.

They were really into ...

... they were just influenced
by The Shaggs ...

... and Velvet Underground ...

... and primal garage rock.

I was grateful
to 'K Records' ...

... and the other music
that they introduced to me.

Like the Vaselines, ...

... a lot of stuff from europe,
in the UK especially ...

... like Young
Marble Giants ...

... and Kleenex.

And it made me realize that ...

... for years I hadn't ...

... looked back on
my childhood.

I'd tried to forget about it, you know.

It just made me look back
and have fond memories of it.

it was just a nice reminder
of innocence.

So I decided to get a 'K' tattooed ...

... to remind me of
my childhood.

To remind me
to stay a child.

♪Swing, swing, up and down♪

♪Turn, turn, turn around♪

♪Round, round and round about♪
♪and over again♪

♪Gun, gun, son of a gun♪

♪You are the only one♪

♪And no one else will take my place♪

♪The sun shines in the bedroom♪

♪When you play♪

♪And the rain, it always starts♪

♪ When you go away♪

♪The sun shines in the bedroom♪

♪When you play♪

♪And the rain, it always starts♪

♪ When you go away♪

It turned into this
weird little pagan place utopia...

... where everyone fucked
one another and ...

... and they had cakewalks and ...

... where they put on shows in
weird places like...

... in a building on the steps
and in a hallway, you know.

Or in a back alley somewhere.

It was heavily community-oriented.

Everyone helping out
one another and ...

... playing in each other's bands.

♪Re-arranging♪
♪the atoms in my hairdo♪

♪Gets me thinking 'bout♪
♪good times I had with you♪

♪Back in the Sixties♪
♪when love was free♪

♪Never need to worry bout my G.C.E.♪
[General Certificate of Education]

They weren't fueled by
the need to succeed ...

... or put out records ...

... or go on tour, anything like that.

They were satisfied with
playing with one another and ...

... making up bands and we'd never really
be in a legitimate band in Olympia.

You'd just be playing with
your friends and jamming.

But I didn't ...

quite fit in with those people.
I didn't really want to ...

because ... they ...
were basically ...

... just kind of boring.

That was one of the really
kind of neat ...

... bohemian things
about Olympia that ...

... there would be a party where there -

... no one would drink
or do drugs ...

... they would sit there and ...
and drink coffee ...

... and one person would
get up and perform.

I would go to the parties and ...

... it was just -
nothing was happening, you know.

People were just sitting around and ...

... listening to that music ...

... and I just opted for
listening to that music by myself.

I mean, I lived in .. my own little
art ... world phantasy ...

... in Aberdeen ...

... and I kept myself
secluded in Olympia, as well.

It wasn't as if I went to Olympia
then all of a sudden...

... started blooming and started hanging
out with a whole bunch of people and ...

... participated in this cultural
town that was like ...

... I utilized it, but I still ...

... kept myself a monk, you know.

I still stayed a monk.

Because I've always been that way.

I've always stayed indoors,
all the time.

I mean, there were weeks when
I wouldn't go out of the apartment.

-- What did Tracy think of all this?
You know, here you are, just ...

... being shut in and ...

... not doing anything?

There was never really a conflict
between Tracy and I ...

because she knew that I would be
just as happy ...

... living in my car or living
under an over-pass somewhere.

The few times that she brought up
the idea of me getting a job ...

... I just said: 'Well, I don't feel like
getting a job, right now and ...

... I'll just go in my car. '

And then she just reluawelie-uh: 'That's
alright, you can just stay in the apartment.'

She was definitely the mother -
nurturing type.

She has to take
care of things and people.

And she would just go
out of her way ...

... to spend money on me.

I mean we'd go thrift shopping ...

... if I found something
that I wanted ...

... and if I didn't have the money ...

... I would gladly just
not buy it ...

... but she would always end up buying it
and ... taking me out to dinner.

She did that a lot.

That was one of the things that I felt
guilty about because ...

... we went out to dinner a lot.

I was always looking for
someone who was artistic ...

... that I could share
artistic things with ...

... and it was impossible
to do that with her.

So the things that we ...
ended up doing together were ...

... like a married couple would do,
you know.

Real typical
Middle-American things like...

... shopping and ...

... and eating.

I had this weird magnetic ...
attraction to flies, well, ...

flies attracted me, actually.

I would wake up in the morning ...

... and these flies would
keep me awake for hours.

They'd come buzzing and
bouncing off my face.

They just attacked me...

... over and over and it's happened
all my life.

This is the worst episode during the
summer ??? with Tracy ...

every morning they'd just
bombard me and...

... I decided to put up
some fly strips ...

... that I bought, like, $ 20 worth ...

... so I'd put - and they
are $ .50 apiece.

So I had, like, 40 fly strips
hanging above my bed.

All over.

And the apartment -
the apartment was as big as this.

Just fly strips everywhere.

That's kind of death rock
as there are all these...

... dead flies all over the place.

I always decorated
my house tastefully.

I wasn't the kind of person who would
put 20 crucifixes on the wall.

I always would have maybe 1 or 2
crucifixes, but they'd be good looking ones.

I did a lot of art stuff
during that time.

Like, I would take ...
models of skeletons and ...

... and put clay all over them ...

... make them into little dolls and ...

... and put clothes on them and ...

Melting candles and making
nativity scenes.

Just ridiculous arts and crafts.

I dubbed a bunch of cassettes ...

... and sent them to every label
I could think of.

With little gifts inside ...

... and letters and things.

Sent them used condoms ...

... with ants.

With a bunch of plastic ants.

With confetti.

-- This was supposed
to get them to sign you?

Yeah.

I sent them to
'Touch and Go' ...

... and I sent some to 'SST' and ...

... 'Alternative Tentacles' and ...

Everyone I can think of.

I'd send, like, 20 to 'Touch and Go'.

It wanted to go 'Touch and Go'
more than anything ...

Cause they have all my favourite
bands on it.

I felt we were really close to
all dirty (?) bands ...

... like 'Scratch Acid' and ...

... and 'Big Black' ...

... and 'Butthole Surfers'.

All three of my
favourite bands.

♪You lie in the graveyard♪

♪Well, you're rotting away♪

♪When I talk to you daily♪

♪You've got nothing to say♪...

At that time Hardcore
was totally dead ...

... you know, speed metal
was the next big thing ...

... and I hated that shit.

And the only thing to do
was either ...

... be real quirky and new wave
like we were at the beginning.

The reason I liked 'Scratch Acid'
so much was ...

... because they had, like,
structure to their songs ...

... real simple pop structure ...

... that you could follow real easily ...

... and it was almost like an 'Aerosmith'
song, but it was really fucked up ...

... and that's what I was doing.

That's what I wanted to do.

♪This vacancy will stay vacant♪

♪Because a tenant is so hard to find♪

♪A tenant who will understand♪

♪About the owner gone ???♪

♪That whole place is empty (?)♪

♪Before it's all sold out (?)♪

Krist and I had built up this imaginary
hatred for Seattle ...

... and anyone from Seattle ...

... just ... because we've always had the
need to not belong.

We never belonged for so long ...

... that to all of a sudden be accepted
into any kind of scene ...

... or society wouldn't be
natural for us, so ...

... we built up these things
in our minds ...

... we would just talk about Seattle -
talk shit about it.

It felt degrading to be thought
of this, like, this ...

... stump dumb rocker dude
from Aberdeen ...

... who's never heard of the 'Wipers'
before in his fucking life ...

... who's only been listening to them
for, like, 7 years, by then.

It really wasn't there. It wasn't half
as intense as we thought it was ...

... or wanted it to be.

So I didn't grow up in Seattle
and I've grown up in middle-class.

That's something that I was fighting
against, the whole time, all my life.

People were actually
really nice to us ...

... at the time we wouldn't admit that.

We met Jonathan [Poneman]
of 'Sub Pop' at this café ...

... and Krist had been
drinking all morning.

We met him, like, 11 o'clock
in the afternoon ...

... and Krist had been drinking
since 8 in the morning, probably.

He was so fucking drunk
and belligerent.

... that it was impossible to talk
business with Jonathan at all, ...

because Krist would sit there and just
glare at Jonathan and burp ...

... and then turn around and scream
something at everyone in the café.

"What the fuck are you people looking at?!"

"Hey, hey!", you know, ...

... that big boisterous hate that he has.

Making a total fool out of himself.

It was great. It was really funny.

It's one of the funniest things
I've ever seen.

And Jonathan was just about
ready to get up and leave.

I really don't remember, if we
came to any agreement, that day at all.

Krist was just so distracting ...

... that it didn't do any good.

♪Touch me, I'm sick♪

♪I won't live long♪

♪And I'm full of rot♪

♪Gonna give you♪
♪- girl -♪

♪Everything I got♪

♪Touch me, I'm sick♪

I think, just the 'Sub Pop' influence,

of what they were doing -
what they were trying to do ...

... made us think about
what we were doing.

Listening to the
'Mudhoney' single ...

... and stuff like that.

I think it had an influence on our
stripping down our sound and ...

... trying to write a pop song.

And we really didn't have
any pop songs.

I mean, there were a lot of things
that we wanted to do ...

... we wanted to be more
experimental and diverse ...

... with the 'Bleach' record ...

... but there was just so much
pressure from Sub Pop.

It just wasn't cool ...

... to play pop music if you're
a punk rock band ...

... and I wanted to mix
the two.

I was really too intimidated ...

by what the crowd response
might be ...

... if I were to do
more pop stuff.

I'd been burdened with ...

... the bohemian philosophy
of musical revolution ...

... for so many years
by living in Olympia ...

... that I started to
resent it.

I just wished, people wouldn't
take us so fucking seriously.

Everyone seems to be
striving for Utopia ...

in the underground scene ...

... but there are so many
different factions --

If you can't get a fucking underground
movement to band together ...

... and to stop bickering about
unnecessary little things ...

... that they don't agree on ...

... then how the fuck you expect
to have an effect on mass level?

Well, my band was
in a situation where ...

... it was expected to
fight in a revolutionary sense ...

... towards the
major corporate machine ...

I just thought:

"How dare you put that kind of
fucking pressure on me?

It's really stupid."

-- Tracy told me the story about how ...

... you would hear that
KCMU was playing 'Love Buzz'.

... and on the drive back
you were just like waiting -

... waiting for 'Love Buzz'
to come on the radio ...

... and finally pulled over and ...

... you called KCMU and
requested the song ...

... and you had to sit in the car waiting
for the song to come on the radio ...

because you were just about
to go out of range.

Yeah, I remember that.

-- What was that like, hearing
this song come in the radio?

It was amazing.

I never thought that I'd ever
get to that point, you know.

I just thought, I would be in a
band and maybe make a demo.

But for them to play
it on the radio it's just ...

... too much to ask for, at that time.

It was really great.

It was just like instant
success and fame ...

... beyond my wildest dreams ...

... more than I ever wanted.

But I mean, on that level ...

... once I got a taste of it,
I really thought it was cool ...

... and I thought, I would
definitely like to hear ...

... my future recordings on the radio ...

... and be able to pay my rent ...

... with this band at the early grade.

You know, we were totally poor ...

... making $ 30 a day...

... at a show, you know, but ...

God, we're seeing the United States
for the first time ...

... and I mean, we're in a band ...

... and we're making enough
money to survive.

It was awesome.
It was just great.

It was total freedom.

I didn't think of ever looking forward to
anything better than that or more than that.

That was gonna be the rest of my life
to be - you know - be in a band on tour ...

... and play clubs and ...

... and hear my songs on the radio
every once in a while and ...

... and live in an
apartment.

-- After a while you're getting corded(?)
by all these corporate labels ...

... and getting wined and dined
and stuff like that.

We're usually nice enough ...

... to the label to ???
take us out for dinner ...

... two or three more times.

Which was our intention.

I remember ... going to Capital
in particular ...

because it was so ...
disgusting ...

... that I ended up leaving ...

... half-way through
one of the meetings.

We had just gotten a taste of their
biggest radio programmer ...

... who is this
good old boy from Texas.

You know, it's like he would ...
like to beat my mom up.

God, that was scary.

He asked me:

"Son, that song 'Polly' ...

... are you beatin' that bitch?"

I said:
"Yes, I am."

And then two other big jock type of radio
programmers walked into his office ...

... and said: "We got two
tickets to the Lakers game, woo-hoo!"

And they all stood up
and started cheering.

I knew, this wasn't the label for us.

♪I am a passenger♪

♪And I ride and I ride♪

♪I ride through the city backsides♪

♪I see the stars come out of the sky♪

♪Yeah, they're bright in a hollow sky♪

♪You know it looks so good tonight♪

"Listen man, I'm not gonna dick you around.
We wanna turn you into stars! "

That's what we wanted
to hear, actually.

because they ??? were just certain that
we weren't going to be some ...

French alternative band,
that no one gave any attention to.

We thought of the possibility of actually
making an impact ...

... in a commercial way.

It didn't seem ...

... totally ..

... as unrealistic as
it seemed a year ago.

... ♪And everything looks good tonight♪

♪Singin' la la la la la-la-la la♪

♪La la la la la-la-la la♪

♪La la la la la-la-la la la-la la♪

The whole winter that Dave and I
spent together ...

... in that little apartment ...

... was the most depressing time
I'd had in years.

It was so fucking small and dirty ...

... and cold and gray ...

... every fucking day.

I almost went insane at one point.

I just couldn't handle it.

I was so bored ...

... and so poor.

I mean, we were signed to 'Geffen'
for months ...

... and we didn't have any money.

We ended up having to pawn
our amps and our TV ...

... all kinds of stuff just to get
money to eat corn dogs.

It felt really weird to be signed
to this ...

multi-million dollar corporation and ...

... and be totally dirt poor.

I was just tired of
living in Olympia and ...

... with nothing to do.

My surroundings just didn't have
anything to offer me, at all.

I needed to move somewhere.

I wanted to go to Seattle or something.

I did heroin a lot.

-- What do you mean 'a lot'?

Well, every ...

... every week or so, probably.

I didn't have any idea, what I was doing.

I called up Krist one time and ...

... talked to him on the phone.
I was high and I told him I did drugs ...

and he became really concerned.
He and Shelley called me up later and ...

... told me that they loved me and they
didn't want me to do drugs.

It was really nice.

My stomach was acting up a lot.

It started on an American tour.

It's ... just ...

burning, nauseous ...

... the worst stomach flu
you can imagine. It just hurts.

You can just feel it throbbing
like you have a heart in your stomach ...

And it just hurts really bad.

I just ??? this feeling
of being all ??? red.

I can finish about half of the meal ...

... then once it gets up to this
certain area, right, where ...

... it's inflamed and red. Once
it starts hitting ...

there, it starts hurting, as the
food just sits on it and ...

it burns.

I'd managed to just ...
carry on.

I mean, there's been so many times where -
obviously when we're eating (?)...

... and having massive pain
and no one even realizes it ...

because I'm so tired
of complaining about it and ...

hurt's on tour so often that ...

I mean, I just have to eat, I have no
choice but to go about my business and ...

... they have no idea, that I'm
in massive pain.

By halfway through ...

... the European tour ...

... I remember just ...

... saying that I'll never go
on tour again until I have this fixed.

Because I wanted to kill myself.
I wanted to fucking blow my head off.

I'm so tired of it.

There's no way I'm gonna live like that.

It just - it turned me into ...

... a neurotic ... freak.

I mean, I was psychologically
fucked up.

I was on a lot of
mental problems, because ...

I was having chronic pain
every single day, you know.

-- When was this?

For the last 5 years.

I just got to the point ...

... in the last couple of tours, just ...

... there was just no way
I was ever go on tour anymore.

But ... I haven't had a stomach problem
since ... I started doing drugs.

-- How did you meet Courtney?

I met her a long time ago
in Portland ...

... when we were playing a show.

It was just, like, a brief encounter.
I gave her a sticker.

We were talking a little bit.

I thought she was like ...
Nancy Spungen, or something.

I don't know. She just looked
like her. I mean ...

She just looked like a classic
punk rock chick, you know.

I didn't feel kind of attracted to her.

... Probably wanted to fuck her
that night, but she left.

I just wanted to ...

... add some excitement in my life.

And I'd never met anyone ...

... so outspoken
and charismatic.

And it just seems like ... she is a
magnet for exciting things to happen,

like if I just happen to be
walking down the street with her ...

someone would try to ...
attack us with a knife or something.

With no reason. Just because
she seems like that kind of a person ...

... who just attracts things like that.

I felt like a rebel in a way, because ...

you know, I was going off with Courtney ...

... and we're scoring drugs and like ...

... fucking up against a wall outside ...

... and stuff like that, you know.

And causing scenes just to do it.

Just because everyone's sitting at this
table just like 'duh', eating food and ...

Not having any fun ...

... and it was just so great
to play this role ...

... with someone who would
stand up all of a sudden and ...

... smash a glass on the table ...

... and scream at me ...

... throwing me down, you know.

It was just really fun.

♪Hey♪

♪There's a horseshoe on my door♪

♪Big deal♪

♪And say♪

♪There's a black cat on the floor♪

♪Big deal♪

Krist is that kind of person
who, if he is willing to do it, ...

... then he has to take
all the glory, you know.

He has to be in control of it.

And he has to be the person
who gets all the attention.

But I'm not allowed to be ...
funny ...

... on the same level as he is.

I don't usually show
my sense of humor ...

... when I'm around him.

Because it seems like
he goes out of his way to not react to it.

I don't think I've ever really
made him laugh out loud ...

... and I know that I have a sense of
humor and I can make people laugh.

I can make Courtney laugh
all the time ...

... and I feel really comfortable
about my humor with her ...

... and other people, with Dave and
a few other - you know, my friends.

But with Krist there's some
weird barrier between us.

We've always just had enough respect
for each other, to ...

... figure out ...

... what ??? one another beforehand ...

... either(?) what little personality
defects we have, that bother each other ...

... and try to ... try to stop them
before ... before it turns into a fight.

I don't think we've ever spoken
mean words to each other.

It's not because we
love each other so much ...

... and we both think of each other
as hypocrites and ...

... there are things about, well, each
other, that I'm sure we despise, but ...

But there's no point -
for the sake of the band.

Once we started making money
and realized ...

... how much more pressures
are on me ...

... and how much did I deserve
a little bit more, because ...

I'm the lead singer. All these
perspectives are being written about me.

I have to take all that pressure.

And I have to come up with the pressure
of writing the songs ...

And I don't care if someone
else gets the credit for it ...

... but I shall at least
be financially compensated for it.

And it was a big deal. It was like
a really big deal to him and Dave.

They sincerely felt
they deserved ...

... just as much songwriting
credit as I do.

That's bullshit.

That's total bullshit. It's like ...

I was ready to fucking quit the band
over it. I couldn't believe it.

I'm such a nihilistic jerk,
half the time.

I'm so fucking sarcastic at times ...

... and then at other times
I'm so vulnerable and ...

... and so sincere.

And that's pretty much
how every song comes out.

It's like a mixture of both of them.

And that's pretty much
how most people my age are.

They're sarcastic one minute
and then ...

... carrying (?) the ???.

I'm just as pissed off about the things
that made me pissed off a few years ago.

-- And it's not necessarily
personal things. It's ...

- ... rape and violence and ...
- Yeah.

I'm pissed off about
everything in general.

And so all these songs ...

... are pretty much about my battle with
things that piss me off.

And that's just the whole theme
of the whole album.

With every album I do.

They're all basically saying
the same thing.

I mean, I have this conflict between ...

... good and evil and ...

... man and woman ...

It's people doing evil things
to other people for no reason.

I just wanna beat the shit out of them.

That's the thought of mine (?).

Cause all I can do is
scream into a microphone instead.

One time I read an interview
at his office and I said:

"Jesus Christ, this makes me look like
such a - a moody, emotional ...

... depressive person."

And he said: "But you are."

I go: "No, I'm not!

I like to have fun, sometimes."
You know.

It's just that everyone thinks of me
as like this emotional wreck.

This total negative black star.

It's just like ...

People are constantly accusing me of ...

... of being in a bad mood ...

... and always asking me:
"What's the matter?"

And it's nothing wrong with me, at all.
I'm not feeling blue at all.

And ... I don't know, ...

It got to the point where I actually had to
look at myself and ...

... and maybe figure out
what people are seeing.

And I thought, "Maybe I should
shave my eyebrows.

That might help." You know.

People ask me that, all the time,
like, even when ...

... I went out to a club ...

... a couple of
months ago ...

... and this kid just nonchalantly
said just out of the blue:

"Jeez, Kurt, why do you always look
like you're mad?"

You know, and I said "I'm not mad!

I'm in a perfectly
happy mood, right now, ...

... you asshole!"

♪Me and my wife♪

♪Went all over town♪

♪Everywhere we'd go
the people would turn us down♪

♪Lord, in a bourgeois town♪

♪Oooh, it's a bourgeois town♪

♪I got the bourgeois blues♪

♪Gonna spread the news all around♪

"Yo, what's wrong? What's wrong
with you? Are you sad?"

You know, most people think that if I
look at them and I don't smile ...

... that I'm pissed off.

So I go out of my way to make it
look like I'm enjoying myself, you know.

I usually am enjoying myself, and I'm
hardly ever depressed anymore. So ...

... it's a lot easier
to be able to do that.

Opiates have always ...

... made me feel ...

... the security that I wanted
to feel ??? ...

... didn't hate people as much, you know.

I had a little bit of affection
for them or, you know, ...

... or at least could see past
the superficiality of ...

... their personality and ..

... and think of them
as a real person.

Maybe they had a fucked up childhood ...

or maybe it's their environment
that's making them this way.

It did release some of the animosity
that I had towards people.

And I needed to do that because ...

I was tired of hating people
so much, you know, ...

... and being so judgmental
towards everyone.

I know it sounds like I'm almost
defending my drug use. And ...

... it sounds like a lot of denial.

I need to go off on
an anti-drug tirade ...

... just to put things in
better perspective.

The last couple of months when I was
doing $ 400 worth every day ...

... I was definitely noticing things
about (?) my memory ...

... and I knew that eventually my
health would start getting a lot worse.

I mean, it's the truth that I was
healthier and fatter at that time ...

... than I am now.

I said right out that
I don't regret it. And I don't, but ...

... that's because
I used it as a tool.

I used it as a --
basically as a pain medication.

To get rid of the pain.

That's the biggest reason why I did it.

And in that sense
I don't regret it, but ...

... anybody else who's gonna
get addicted to drugs ...

... are obviously going to
fuck up their lives, eventually.

If it doesn't take a year,
it will be next year, you know.

It’s so obvious.

I mean, I've seen it happen with every
person that ever got strung-out.

It's a typical classic case ...

... that drugs are bad for you
and they will fuck you up, you know.

I just knew that I would eventually
stop doing them and ...

... being married and having a baby ...

... that's a really good incentive,
but most people don't even have that.

And also, I'm a rich millionaire
rock star, ...

... and then I have a lot of things
to keep right now.

I have a lot of reasons
to not do drugs, ...

... but most people who are gonna be
influenced by the fact that I did drugs ...

... are gonna be average people who have
a job and can barely make ends meet.

-- Well, I mean, you realize how that
sounds. It’s like ...

"Well, it's okay if I do drugs, but" ...

I know! That's what I'm saying.
I know, exactly.

That's why I have to keep going.

I'm saying that eventually ...

... if I would have kept doing drugs ...

... I would have lost everything.

-- What is the attraction to these
transparent people?

I don't like puzzles, but it just --
I like the idea to take them all apart.

Just see the guts and -
organs fascinate me.

How they work. And ...

... a lot of times they fuck up.

It's hard to believe that
a person can put ...

... something as poisonous as alcohol
and drugs in their system ...

... and these mechanics can take it.

For a while.

It's a nice thing, it can
take it at all.

Oh god, it was incredible.

It's one of the most amazing things.

Especially because ...

... it wasn't just a picture,
it was a video ...

... so you could see her moving around.

It was the first time I really realized
that she was a living thing, you know.

It was really amazing. You could see
her heart beating, and ...

... the first thing that she did with
her hands was ...

... make the heavy metal
Satan salute, like this.

- Waved her arm up and down, like that.
- Wow.

Then the pediatrician
pointed it out and said:

"Look at that little
hand gesture she's making ...

... and Courtney and I
looked over and said:

"That's the sign of the devil, Doctor."

Some days I probably feel
more paranoid than usual, but ...

... just since Frances has been born, most
of that has been stripped away from me.

It's just gone easier and easier ...

... over the years. It's like ...

... developed, you know, real
relationships with friends...

... actually have some real friends ...

... and the band's
getting more popular ...

... and just actually find someone I love,
you know, that took a lot of it away.

Well, it's really exciting for me,
cause that's what I've always wanted.

It's the ideal. Made (?).

It's better for me,
probably ...

because I'm in a ... a better position
than Courtney is, right now.

It's really hard for her ...
to have enough faith in herself ...

because, you know, her character's
been so fucked with so badly.

There's so much scrutiny involved
with her band and her personally ...

... that she'd have to put out an album
that's absolutely amazing ...

... just to be considered semi-good.

The songs she has - I think
they're really really good, but ...

... it's really hard to convince her
that they're any good at all.

-- I think some people would say
???, you know, ...

... "Why is she getting involved in
her husband's business affairs?"

Because I'm too lazy to deal with it.

And I'll just bend over
and help 'em slip it in my ass, you know.

Just - I forget about things
all the time and ...

... everyone thrives on that.

Everyone takes advantage of that.

I will ask someone in my management
to do something for me 20 times.

And then it will take, like,
4 months for them to get it done.

And finally Courtney calls up and
screams at them ...

... and yells at them so it
finally sticks in their brain.

They think ...

You know, they get off the phone
and they go: "What a cunt!"

But the thing gets done.

It's mainly for the benefit
of our babies ...

... so we can make sure
that we have some money ...

... for the next 10 years.

We're getting better at it, though.

I'm learning from her.

But you know, a lot of times she just
unnecessarily jumps to conclusions.

And that's her downfall.

So she doesn't get taken as seriously
as she would like to be.

She seems like, you know,
she has this take on being ...

this selfish, mean, righteous person ...

... and she's way more thoughtful
than I am about things like that.

When I finally think about it
or [get] reminded of it ...

... then I carry on with it, you know.

But she's ...

... she's always doing things like
always buying me presents and stuff ...

... and always giving me
compliments ??? shit.

It's great.

-- Everyone reads about in -

they read the 'Vanity Fair' story, they
read all the 'Copycat' stories, but ...

... no one ever really thinks about ...

... what the effect is on the
people that's happening to.

'Course not. We're fucking
cartoon characters.

We don't have any fucking feelings.

And the people that think that ...

... can the suck my dick
and they can give me $ 10 ...

... for my album, you know.

I'll gladly take their money.

The thing that I've always ...

... never understood is like ...

...the classic reaction to ...

... someone who complains
that's in the limelight ...

... is like "Well", you know, "You made
your bed, now you have to sleep in it."

That's what everyone expects.

And you're public domain now
and everyone just...

... has the right to know
everything about you.

You know, no journalist has a fucking
right to ask me if I do drugs or not.

You know, it's not their fucking business.

If they wanna know about the music
and how I try to write it, then ...

... that's fine.

Of course that ties in with my
personal life, but really ...

... not even as much as everyone thinks.

I just always felt violated and ...

... and I don't agree
with people saying that ...

... everyone has a right to know.
I mean ...

I have a right to try to change
that perception, you know.

I have the right to try to change
people's way of thinking of celebrities.

It should be changed. It should be different.

They should be treated as human beings
and their privacy should be respected.

♪We passed upon the stair♪

♪We spoke of was and when♪

♪Although I wasn't there♪

♪He said I was his friend♪

♪Which came as some surprise♪

♪I spoke into his eyes♪

♪I thought you died alone♪

♪A long long time ago♪

♪Oh no, not me♪

♪I never lost control♪

♪You're face to face♪

♪With The Man Who Sold The World♪

How long did they think we're going to
last, being personally attacked like this?

And they always speculated that we're
gonna break up because of our own actions.

And it's only because of a reaction for
what the fucking press is doing to us.

-- You ever considered breaking up?

All the time.

I've quit this band
ten times, this year.

Officially, you know.

It's just to the point where I don't care
enough about the band to really ...

... let it effect us this way, any more.

Besides, all the attacks are
on Courtney and I anyhow.

Krist and Dave don't have to
fucking deal with it.

I mean Krist just saw in 'Melody
Maker' the other day that they ...

... falsely reported that he was
gonna be doing a poetry reading ...

... in England. And he flipped out,
you know, it's like ...

"How dare they do that!", you know,
it's like ...

"God, Krist", you know ...

... "at least they didn't call you
a fucking heroin addict ...

... and you're killing your baby and ...

... leaving in a taxi cab."

People fuck with us all the time.

They want dirt and
they wanna lie about us.

And I just don't understand it.

I've never really tried to do anything
scandalous in my life.

I just can't help ...

I want to beat them to...
to their death.

I'm a firm believer in revenge.

I think, there is a time and place
for violence ...

... in every situation.

I mean, obviously I have a lot
to lose, right now ...

... so I won't be able to do it.

But I mean, I have all the rest
of my life.

I don't enjoy people
fucking with my family.

If I ever find myself destitute
and I've lost my family ...

... and if I ever do see her
I'm gonna beat the fucking shit ...

I don't hesitate to get revenge on people
that have fucked with me. And I ...

... have always been capable of that.

They're the most ruthless
life form on earth:

journalists.

They are the evilest, most uncaring
fuckheads,

the most bitter people I've ever known.
They're just ...

They suck.

I fucking have absolutely no respect
for anyone who's a journalist.

-- Oh.

-- Shit... Excuse me.

But you do other things
with your life, you know.

You aren't a person that's obviously
going out on their way for the story ...

... and making up lies about the story.

Those are the kind of people
I'm talking about ...

... and that just happens
to be 99% of 'em.

No matter what we do ...

... how clean we live our lives ...

... we're not gonna survive this ...

... because there are too many
fucking enemies ...

... and we threaten too many people.

And we've offended too many people.

Everyone wants to see us die.

And I might just keep going
just to spite those fuckheads, you know.

You know, they've already
treaded past ...

... the most offensive part
which is attacking my family.

And I could go on for years, but ...

... there's going to be a time when I'm
not gonna be able to deal with it anymore.

When my daughter is old enough
to realize what's going on.

I mean, she's already gonna ...

... be 12 years old and start
reading all the soap press and ...

... and start asking: "Hey, did you really
take drugs while I was a baby?", you know,

and it's gonna be a hard thing to try
to convince her ...

... of all the things that aren't true.

I couldn't see still fighting
this stupid fight ...

... you know, ten years from now.

By that point I wanna just be putting
out records on my own, you know, ...

... under a different name or something.

There's just no way I could
enjoy it at that point.

The most exciting time for a band is
right before they become really popular.

I'd love to just be in bands
that just do that every two years.

-- Just stay on the ???
as soon as you hit big?

Yeah, that'd be fucking awesome.

Every time I look back,
the best times of this band ...

... was just right before
'Nevermind' came out.

It was awesome.

Without my choosing it's become a job.

Whether I like it or not.

It's something that I love doing
and that I would always wanna do ...

... but I have to be honest ...

... I don't enjoy it
nearly as much as I used to ...

... when I was practicing every night ...

... imagining what it would be like.

It's nothing like what it was like
the first couple of years ...

... of actually playing in front
of a few people and, you know, ...

... loading up the van and
going to a rock show to actually play.

The privilege of that just can't be
reproduced after doing it for 10 years.

I find myself falling asleep
at times when I'm ...

... fed up with people or bored ...

... if I don't wanna socialize and I'm
stuck in a social situation, like ...

... back-stage ...

... or being on tour, in general.

I just sleep throughout the day.
I would prefer to be in a coma, you know.

And just be woken up and we
would go on the stage and play ...

... and then put back
in my own little world.

-- Well, assuming that you had,
you know, perfect monitors and ...

... you're playing really...

well and everything is going really,
you know, just optimum...

... it'd be interesting to know
what the feeling in your head is.

Is it, you know, happy?

Well, it's just a mixture of every
emotion that I've ever experienced.

It's everything, it's anger, it's ...

death ... and absolute
total bliss, you know.

As happy as I've ever been when I was
a carefree child running around ...

throwing rocks at cops.

I mean, it's just everything and ...

... I mean, every song ...

... feels different. It just ...

And also just the vibe I feel
from the audience. I mean ...

a lot of times I'll be
going to the motion (?) ...

... and then I'll look out at the
audience, realize that they're ...

... really enjoying themselves.

And that'll make me -
That makes me happy.

-- Think this band's gonna ...
last to the next decade? ???

I don't want it to, but ...

... it might.

It all depends on how ...

... how good the songs are, you know.

I mean, I was surprised ...

to find ...

... us working together
as such a unit, lately. I mean ...

... we actually wrote
a song together ...

... and it turned out to be pretty good.

That's hardly ever happened.
Most of the time it's been up to me.

But I don't know how
much more I can do with ...

... with Dave and Krist and my
guitar sound and my voice, you know.

I'd really like to ...

... play with other people, but ...

... it's so ... it's almost impossible
to find people you can get along with ...

... and people that ...

think on the same level
as you do musically.

That's why it's so easy
to play songs with Courtney.

Every time we jam on something ...

... we write a great song.

It's weird.

Because she's a person
who takes command ...

... and isn't afraid to ...

... to be the leader.

And when you got two
leaders together ...

... it works not really well.

I would love to be able to just play
with other people ...

... and create something new.

I would rather do that
than stay in Nirvana.

It's sad to think what the state of
Rock 'n' Roll will be in ...

... 20 years from now.

It just seems like when
Rock 'n' Roll is dead ...

... the whole world's
gonna explode, you know.

And it's already so rehashed and ...

... so plagiarized ...

... that it's barely alive
now, you know.

It's disgusting.

I mean, kids really don't even care about
Rock 'n' Roll as much as they used to.

As the other generations have.

It's already turned into nothing but a
fashion statement and an identity ...

... for kids to use. It's a tool for
them to fuck and have a social life.

And at that point, I really can't see
music being of any importance ...

... to a teenager, really.

I think they have just
sounds and tones and ...

... use it in their virtual
reality machines ...

... and just listen to it that way
and get the same emotions from it.

And then go to a party.

There'll be a virtual reality machine
there with a whole bunch of ...

... headphones and if you wanna ...

talk to people and listen to the virtual
reality machine you can do that and ...

... and go to the other bedroom
and fuck and drink and ...

... but I actually I think, virtual reality
machines will actually get you high.

Technology [will] be that good.

And then there'll be, like,
virtual reality junkies ...

... finding them dead on their couch ...

... from O.D. [overdose]

Dying in general? Or dying from drugs?

-- Dying in general.

I'd thought about dying all my life
like any normal person.

I thought about ...

... killing myself for so long
because of my stomach thing ...

... that I didn't give a fuck about
whether I was gonna die or not.

If I was gonna blow my head off
with a gun ...

... I may as well take the risk
of dying from drugs.

-- Is yours a sad story?

No.

Not really. I mean ...

... it's not - it's nothing
that's amazing ...

... or anything new, that's for sure.

No, it's not.

I'm a product of a fucking ...
spoiled America, you know.

I mean, think of how much worse
my family life could be if I ...

... grew up in another country, you know,
in a depression or ...

... so many worse things that happen
besides of divorce, you know.

I was just ...

... been brooding and bellyaching
about something that I couldn't have, ...

... which is a family,

a solid family unit,

for too long, you know.

I've grown out of it now.

I'm glad that I could share it with kids
who've had the same experiences, you know.

Overall, it's sad that
two people can't ...

... if they choose to marry
one another and have children ...

... that they can't at least get along.

It amazes me that ...

... people who think that they're
in love with one another...

... can't even ...

... pretend, or at least have enough
courtesy for the children to ...

... talk to one another civilly ...

... when they have to see each other
just every once in a while ...

... when they pick the kids up
from a visit, you know.

-- Kurt?

Yeah?

-- When you come upstairs ...

... will you ??? bottle?

Yeah.

-- Don't forget, okay?

Ok.

I mean, that's sad but it's not ...

... I mean, it's not my story - any more
my story than anybody else's, you know.

-- Are you a Martian?

I'd like to believe, though.

-- Really does look just
like those things.

Yeah, it does.

-- So uhm, hrm, anyway ...

... good luck, etc., etc. ...

... and thanks from the bottom of my heart.
I really mean it. It's been great.

So, talk to you soon.

Alright.

-- See ya.

Bye Michael.

-- Bye Kurt.