I Love You, Now Die: The Commonwealth v. Michelle Carter (2019) - full transcript

The trial of a Plainville woman

accused of encouraging
her friend to kill himself

through text messages
is now underway.

Michelle Carter
is on trial for manslaughter

to decide if text messages she sent
crossed a legal line

and whether she should
be held responsible

for her boyfriend's decision
to take his own life.

"His death was my fault.
I could have stopped him.

I was on the phone with him,

and he got out of the car
because it was working.

He got scared, and I fucking told him
to get back in."



The defendant's own words.

Seventeen-year-old Michelle Carter,
who, for weeks, badgered-- berated--

her depressed boyfriend
Conrad Roy, 18 years old,

into killing himself.

And on July 12, 2014,

as his truck was filling
with carbon monoxide,

he was scared.

He got out.

It was the defendant,

on the other end of the phone,
who ordered him back in,

then listened for 20 minutes
as he cried in pain,

took his last breaths, and died.

She assisted and devised and advised
and planned his suicide.

She reasoned him
out of his reservations.



She told him that once he was dead,
he would be free and happy.

She pushed him to kill himself
sooner rather than later.

And she used Conrad as a pawn
in her sick game of life and death.

818 to all cars in station....

He never was the type of kid
to not ever come home.

So...

I knew that morning
that there was something... wrong.

And I felt this rush
go through my body

that I've never felt in my life.

And I felt like he just
passed through me.

I've never felt that feeling
in my life.

It was just, like,
the most chilling feeling.

Stand by.
I'm looking for it.

I have it in here somewhere.

We were sitting
on the porch right here, and, um...

a friend of the family...

called my dad and...

told him that his truck had, uh,
caution tape around it

at the, uh, Fairhaven K-Mart.

And we, uh, got in the car
and drove over there.

POLICE DISPATCHER 2:

...please.

We pulled
into the K-Mart parking lot

and you saw the truck
and you saw the yellow tape.

And he just put it in park,
he's like, "I can't go up there."

Conrad Sr. was driving back out,

and he pulled up next to Co,

and he just said,
"He's gone, Co. He's dead."

And he--
Co just broke down,

and we both...

It was just like,
"He's dead. He did it."

It was horrible. I just...

just went and cried...

like, you know...

for days.

Did you go to the K-Mart?

No. Mm-mm.

I think if I would have saw him
or been with his body,

it would--
I don't think I would've left.

I am...

Generally, in cases where
there is an untimely passing,

we review dispatch logs, police logs.

It's for us to keep up and see

if there's anything we have to
follow up on.

I came across their reports
related to Conrad Roy's death.

Collectively, within our office
our thought was,

you know, why would someone
18 years old take his own life?

Everyone's life is within
their phone these days.

At the time
in which Conrad was located,

his phone was dead.

So, there was this-- some discussion
as to whether or not to take it or not.

But the people assigned
to the case that day

decided to-- to take the phone.

And there wasn't-- at that point,

it didn't seem like
there was a ton of reason

to get into the phone other than
to try to come up with an answer

of why an 18-year-old-boy
would have killed himself.

No one knew about
what had actually occurred.

I opened the phone, and I went
right to the message part of the phone,

and there was only thread open.

And it said Michelle Carter, at which
time I had no idea that meant anything.

Uh, and then when I clicked on--
to open that actual conversation,

it was quickly where I realized
that the text messages were

disturbing in nature.

Glenn was sitting
across from me at his desk,

and at one point, I was like,
"Guys," you know, "you gotta see this."

And as I continued to read
is when we, uh,

ended up thinking that
we should probably contact

the DA's office just to let them know
what we had found.

It was just
constant encouragement

to take his life.

Almost demanding
that he take his life.

It was awful.
It was awful to think

that there was somebody
that could actually

push somebody towards suicide
like that,

especially someone that young.

At that point, the big thing

was trying to figure out
who Michelle Carter was.

It is 5:51 on October 2nd.

We're talking to Michelle Carter
at King Philip High School.

Um, Michelle, the reason
why we came out here is

we were looking into
Conrad's unfortunate passing.

- All right?
- Yeah.

Did you have contact with him

the day right up until
he-- he-- he passed?

Did you--

Do you think you had contact
with him that day?

Um...

Yeah? Did he-- did he tell you

he was gonna do that
or anything like that?

Um...

- Yeah?
- And...

Mm-hmm.

- What would?
- Of like just...

Okay.

Is that-- is that your phone?
Is that the phone you had?

Yeah. It's my phone.
It's kind of broken.

-Oh, it is?
-Uh, well, the screen--

-Is this password protected?
-Yeah.

What's-- Do you know
the password so I can...

Um...

Here you go.

Um...

Okay? So, we'll be taking it.

Wait, so...
you're taking my phone?

-Yes.
-Do I get it back?

At some point,
you will, yeah.

- Okay.
- Okay?

Her phone download
was approximately 60,000 items.

There was pictures,
there was voicemails,

there was call logs,
there was text messages,

chats through Facebook.

We each grabbed a copy of it
and went home at night

and read about a thousand
text messages each.

And we came back the next morning,

and I still remember that
we looked at each other,

and I don't know if I said it first
or he said it first, but it was...

"If it wasn't for her,
he's alive today."

I think at that point
we really realized

that we had something
that was criminal.

Court's in session.
Be seated. Please remain quiet.

When she was arrested
and the texts came out,

we were just shocked.

I mean, it was just so heinous.

"When are you gonna do it?
Stop ignoring the question.

Question mark, question mark,
question mark, question mark.

You can't keep pushing it off.
Are you gonna do it tonight?"

And she keeps at him, Your Honor.
At him and at him to do it.

It was almost the same feeling
as finding out that he died.

It's like an out-of-body experience.

Like reading it, it's like,
"This can't be real.

Is this-- Am I dreaming?"

It's like reading a novel, or--

It's not something that happens
in your family.

The more we read,
it was just like...

"You've got to be kidding."

We want to rip her face off right now.
Like, we are so angry.

Carter was
sending hundreds of texts

urging the teen to kill himself
right up until his final moments.

Carter encouraged
and even guided Roy.

That really caught
a lot of people's attention.

"Go ahead and do it.
Do it, babe.

Why haven't you done it yet?"

What is that puss on her face?

Hold on. Back it up, Liz.

Okay, hold everything.

Police say
at one point, before Roy died,

he got scared, got out of the truck,
and called Carter.

Carter told him to get back in.

Hi. This is Conrad Roy.

And I'm gonna talk to you
about social anxiety.

For me, social anxiety feels...

like it's overwhelming my life.

Like, everything does not
revolve around me.

And now I want to take steps
to control it.

And the first thing I want to do...

is be more proactive

in a social environment,

try to contribute to conversation
as well as I can,

and just be more confident in myself
and my ability to...

retract my knowledge.

'Cause I--
I feel like I'm a smart man.

I'm 18 years old,

and I still haven't recovered
from social anxiety, depression.

It's controlling me.

A lot of people tell me that
I have a lot going for me.

I have to be happy,
I have to be happy.

Well, no, you don't have to be happy.

There's people that love me.
I have a great mom.

Great dad, for the most part.

But I'm so depressed.

Feel like I'm differently wired
from everyone else.

Like there's something
wrong with me.

The serotonin in my head is gone.

And to replace it with dopamine,
or...

another controlled substance,

but if I keep talking--
keep talking--

it's gonna get better.

My son, when he was born,
he was the first one hatched.

And we named-- I said, "Oh my God,

He looks just like me.
Another Conrad."

And then when Co, my son,
had his son, first one,

he says, "Oh my God,
he looks like just me."

And we named him Conrad.

When they came
out of the hospital with C3,

they brought him down
to the shipyard

where I was getting ready to leave.

And at three days old,

I had him in my hand,

and we did an assist job
bringing a tanker in to New Bedford.

We've got pictures of him,
even when it was a little ship,

that, uh, he was there.
I mean, you know...

not really knowing what to do
or how to do it,

but he was there.

And it's, um...

I've had some great memories
of that.

Some real great memories.

And... I'm sorry.

Our family, we work in the water
and we play in the water.

When he was younger, he definitely
liked being on the sailboats

and being in, like,
the pleasure boats.

When he got a little bit older,

we would take him on
some salvage jobs.

And then, in his, like, junior year,

he worked with me full time.

I suppose it wasn't the same
since we got, you know,

divorced, you know?

It was a little-- It was
different for all of us, so...

I mean, every child, um...

has difficulty with a divorce.

They always ultimately
want their parents to be together.

It was during high school, um,
and it was when, like,

he started school back up again.

We didn't notice it right away,
but his grades were slipping

and he was saying he was having,
like, a tough time staying focused,

and, um...

He said he-- he said he was
having, like, racing thoughts,

and he said he was, like,
losing his memory.

We were bringing him to, uh,

you know, all these doctors
and, you know, psychiatrists,

and trying to figure out,
you know, what was going wrong.

If my kids are happy, I'm happy.

So, the fact that my son wasn't...

it destroyed my soul
for a while.

What I am doing is...

I'm looking at myself so negatively.

Look at myself,
minuscule little particle...

on the face of this earth.

It's no good. Trash.
Will never be successful.

It was really tough
to watch him go through that.

Like, he didn't--
he didn't know what to, like,

who to sit with at school
at times, and, uh...

It's just heartbreaking as a parent.

And then, you know,
some kids would pick on him,

you know, and uh...

Listen.

I just have to get the cobwebs out.

Turn the gears.

The gears need to be turning.

Turn them gears.

That's what I gotta do.

I wish that...

I would have seen more.

I wish I would've
picked up more signs

that week, that day.

If I knew he was feeling
or thinking that way,

yeah, I would have had him
handcuffed to, probably to a uh,

to my car and brought him
to a hospital.

But he just, like--

I just thought he was doing well.

He seemed like he was
just on the right track.

It seemed like everything
was, like, getting better.

Um... And he was, um,
you know,

able to get his captain's license
and he was, like,

seemed to be like really wanting
to, uh,

you know, learn, like, the business.

I mean,
when he came in the living room

and he-- he--

He shows me
his captain's license,

and it was like,
"You must be shitting me, Co."

You know, I mean, not that I was one
to shy on words, but I mean...

I said, "Are you shitting me?
You got it already?"

He says, "Yeah, look at it."
You know?

That was-- It was just
a few weeks before he-- he died.

What caused Conrad's death?

I would say-- I would say
it's Michelle Carter.

They met in Florida,

when we were visiting my great aunt.

She has a place down there,

like, this country club type thing,

and her--
Michelle's grandparents do too.

Um, and they were friends.

Like, so, like, February vacation,

when Michelle's family
and my family--

well, Conrad's family--
were both down there,

my aunt introduced Michelle
and Conrad to each other.

And like, I don't know, they went, like,
on a bike ride together.

I would say the relationship between
Michelle Carter and Conrad Roy

is a thoroughly modern romance.
Right?

It's a romance conducted
almost entirely online.

They met maybe five times.

That's why I didn't know they
were boyfriend and girlfriend.

I never saw her.

I mean I-- I saw him
text her all the time,

you know, on his phone.
But...

I didn't think that they had
a relationship like that.

They had, in fact, exchanged thousands
upon thousands of messages...

...and had this sort of intimacy

without ever really
seeing each other.

They're having this
secret relationship

that is totally destructive, um,
to their mental health.

Attorneys for Michelle Carter
do not deny the evidence.

They do not deny
the text messages, et cetera.

Instead, what they say
is that even though

her conduct may be reprehensible,

they say it is not criminal,
and therefore,

she should not be charged
with manslaughter

in connection with the suicide
of her boyfriend.

Whether it's the right thing,
the wrong thing,

the moral thing, the immoral thing,

what I'm certain of
is it wasn't a crime.

There's no law that criminalizes

encouragement of suicide
in Massachusetts,

and now the district attorney's
office says,

even though our legislature

has not criminalized
that behavior with the law,

we're gonna prosecute her
with a homicide.

The idea that your speech alone

in the way of text messages
and words in the telephone

can equal a manslaughter charge,

I think, is a dangerous,
dangerous precedent.

SJC-12043.
Commonwealth vs. Michelle Carter.

Good morning.

Good morning, Mr. Curhan.
Why don't you get us going?

We contend that
verbally encouraging someone

to commit suicide, no matter
how forceful the encouragement,

does not constitute a crime
in Massachusetts.

So, the person has a gun and says,

"I am going to kill myself."

-Right? And you're saying, "Good."
-Yes.

"Good, good. Go for it, do it."
"Ah, I don't know."

"No, no. Come on. Come on.
Pull the trigger."

Is-- Does that step over the line?

- I don't think so.
- Or is that still... okay?

I don't think
verbally encouraging someone--

I don't think that
would be a crime.

Wait. I mean-- You mean
if somebody solicits a murder?

-Uh, if somebody solicits--
-We get that all the time.

That would odd because
there's an underlying crime.

- Right. Right.
- ...of murder.

You see, the-- Part of the problem
is that Massachusetts doesn't--

is one of eleven states
that doesn't have a--

a statute addressing this--
this type of behavior,

that-- encouraging suicide.

But we do have an involuntary
manslaughter statute,

which talks about
wanton and reckless conduct

resulting in the death,
causing the death, of someone.

And, at some point,

can verbal action
become wanton and reckless

if it results in someone's death?

The problem is that, uh,

the death was caused
by the victim himself.

He's the one who got the generator,

who drove to the location,
who set it up in the truck,

who turned it on,
and who got in the truck.

So, I'm in the truck, and I'm dying.

And I deci-- I have to get out.
I get out.

And I call my friend,

and my friend says,
"Get back in the truck.

Kill yourself."

That's not enough?
That's just talk?

If she was physically present

and she said, "Get back in the truck
or I'll put you back in there myself,"

or, here, another example,
standing on the edge of a bridge.

"Jump off that bridge
or I will push you."

The, uh, "or I will push you"

would probably take that
over the line.

But "jump off the bridge" would not.

It doesn't matter
how persistent she is.

It doesn't matter how reprehensible
we might think her conduct is.

It simply isn't a crime,
and it was not at the time,

and we can't make it a crime
retroactively.

Unless there are
any further questions,

I'll leave the remaining points
to the brief.

Thank you, counselor.

I've been doing this
for 25 years now.

I read the law. I understand it.

And it's not a case that
should've ever been brought.

And it's gonna have
a potential chilling effect

on free speech rights

about whether or not people
can openly discuss suicide

and encourage it between loved ones.

This case will set precedent.

I'm not someone, generally,

who's in favor of expanding
the scope of the criminal law,

but I have to say,
in reading those messages,

it just seemed clear that

she was trying to exert

some real influence
over his behavior.

I would really struggle
with the question

of whether the kind of
psychological pressure

Michelle Carter appeared to be
applying and a part of

could have the same impact

as physically assisting someone
with the suicide.

She was 40 miles away
on a telephone.

He could've stayed out of the car.
He could a hung up the telephone.

So, there's no coercion here.

My name is Jesse Barron,

and I covered the Michelle Carter case
for Esquire Magazine.

I read an article about the case

in the South Coast Times
in the summer of 2016,

and I went to a pretrial hearing
in December.

And I knew that
I had to write about it.

On the first day of the trial,
I was waiting up outside of--

We had to pick up our press badges,

and all the media's there
kind of waiting to start the show.

And at some moment,
a few minutes after 9:00 AM,

a TV producer whispered,
"Is that her?"

And all heads turn.

Michelle, wearing
a white quilted car coat

and high heels, is coming toward us.

And there was this feeling of a...

weird sort of inverse star power
that was put on her.

She was thin. She was blonde.

She was tanning-booth tan.

It felt like she knew
she was gonna be photographed.

Good morning, Miss Carter.

Please remain standing
while you are sworn.

Please raise your right hand.
In this matter before the court

do you swear to tell the truth,
the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?

I do.

Please take a seat
and make yourself comfortable.

And please keep your voice up
nice and loud.

Please state your full name and age.

Michelle Diana Carter.
Uh, 20.

So, you understand, Miss Carter,

that you are fully entitled
under the Constitution

to a jury of your peers to decide

whether or not you are in fact
guilty of this crime?

Yes.

That is the right that you are giving up
with your testimony now.

Yes.

All right.
Has anyone promised you anything

or threatened you in any way

to make you forgo your right
to a jury trial?

No.

Are you doing that
of your own free will,

knowingly and voluntarily?

-Yes.
-All right. Thank you very much.

-You may step down.
-Thank you.

It was a genius
defense strategy here,

especially doing it
in the eleventh hour, uh,

right before they were
supposed to select the jury.

Juries of your peers
often don't know the law

as much as they know
their own emotions

and how their own emotions
are applied to the facts

that are put in front of them.
And sometimes emotions win the day.

This has turned into
a matter of law.

So, what Judge Moniz decides here:

This is step one
of what is going to be

a ever-evolving area of the law.

Now, prosecutors
can show the judge--

and more importantly,
I believe, show the public

exactly what happened here.

I'm gonna be putting on the screen
a photograph.

Can you tell us who we're seeing
in this photograph?

Conrad.

And how old
would Conrad have been

in this photograph?

Eighteen.

I ask that be marked
as the next exhibit, please.

-Is there an objection?
-No.

May be marked.

Do you see Michelle Carter
present in the courtroom today?

-Yes.
-Could you please point to her,

identify something that she's
wearing?

I don't know.
A red shirt, looks like.

Your Honor, may the record reflect
identification of the defendant.

Yes,
the record may so reflect.

It's hard
to see someone on the outside

and then know them in the inside.

I don't know,
I thought I was pretty...

a pretty good judge of character.

I don't know. But after that?

I-- I-- It's-- It's very hard
for me to...

understand someone, so...

Michelle Carter was a suburban girl

from a town called Plainville
of 8,000.

She was a good student.

She was a polite, appealing teenager

who adults felt respected by.

So, outwardly, this was, like,
as straight white American

suburban teenage life
as you can get.

She was,
in this small community,

known as a really sweet,
caring young woman.

This was a most unusual child
who, for whatever reason,

wanted above all things
to be helpful to other people.

But then, when I got to reading
all those texts,

I entered another world of Michelle
that I didn't know about.

Later on that night,

that's when you get
the text message from Michelle Carter?

Yes.

I'm now going to ask you
about the 13th.

Okay.

Do you recall getting
a text message that said...

- "Find him yet?"
- Mm-hmm.

And you replied back, "No."

And then, shortly after,
Michelle Carter texted you,

"Okay, just stay positive.
Let me know."

-Do you recall that?
-Mm-hmm.

Had she told you
that she was with him

-at all that night?
-No.

Did she ever tell you
that she'd been on the phone

-with your brother that night?
-No.

On July 14th, do you recall

getting a text message
from Michelle Carter

saying...

-Do you recall that?
-Yeah.

Had she ever been to your house before
that you recall?

No.

I thought that she
really cared about him.

You know, I told her, I said,
"I'm so glad

that my son had someone like you
in his life."

And I thought she was very, very sweet
and compassionate and loving.

I don't know.
Why would you ever think that...

someone would think
the way she does?

After you had told her
that his body was cremated,

do you recall she replied to you...

Do you recall that?

- Yes.
- Did you think that was odd?

A little.

Were you concerned by that?

A little.

She messaged me
at some point and said,

"You tried your hardest,
I tried my hardest."

I was like,
"Well, that's a red flag," you know?

Excuse my language, but...

What the fuck is she talking about?

Like, I tried to save him?

I had no idea
he was feeling that way.

It's weird because before he passed,

I told him, I said, "Conrad,"
I said, "Mom was a teenager.

I know how girls can be.

If you're pretty,
they can just smile

and just, you know,
bat their eyelashes,

and some boys
will be like, 'Woo.'"

So...

I said, "But girls can...
can be very manipulative."

And uh, I never believed that my son

would be taken advantage of
in the worst way possible.

Who would do this and why?

I would suggest
the evidence will show

that the defendant
was a very needy person

who craved attention.

But she didn't have
many close friends.

You're going to hear
from some of the girls

that knew her during high school.

They will tell you that
she texted them incessantly.

She was trying to get close to them
and be part of their lives,

but these girls
had many things going on

and they really didn't hang around
with her outside of school.

So, in June of 2014,

when the school year
was coming to an end,

the defendant needed something
to get their attention.

Samantha Boardman, Your Honor.

Now, in your junior year,

did you meet someone
by the name of Michelle Carter?

-Yes.
-Do you remember how you met her?

She was in two of my classes,
I believe, um, or--

So, I talked to her
in math class, I believe.

-There's another witness?
-Olivia Mosolgo, please.

All right.

Would you consider yourself
a close friend with her in high school?

We were close teammates, I would say.

So, you were
more teammates, not friends?

We were friends in the sense
that I was there for her

when she was going
through things, and...

- Okay.
- But not every day,

- like, best friends...
- Would you go--

On weekends,
would you hang out with her?

- No.
- Uh, is it fair to say

that she expressed to you
that she felt like she had no friends?

Yes.

And did she send
text messages to you about that?

Yes.

Okay.

Do you recall getting that text
message from Michelle Carter?

Yes.

Lexie Eblan, please.

Please describe your relationship

with Michelle Carter, if--
if you had any.

It was mostly
an in-school friendship.

Um... Mostly just, like,
talking in school and stuff.

Um, that was kind of, like,
the extent.

And during those first
couple of years of high school,

would you ever socialize with
Michelle Carter outside of high school?

Outside of seeing her
in a classroom?

I don't believe I did.

Did Michelle Carter ask you
to do things during that junior year

- via text?
- Definitely.

Probably a couple,
a few times a week.

And what was your usual answer?

That I was working
or had something else to do, or no.

And as school is ending,

were there any talks
between you and Michelle

about doing things over the summer?

Um, I believe Michelle asked us,

but I'm not sure
if we had any plans.

In your mind, did you have any plans
to hang out with her over the summer?

Not really.

She knew her plan
to get attention would work

because she pre-tested it.

On July 10, two days before
Conrad committed suicide,

she did a "dry run,"

texting several girls
that Conrad had gone missing

while simultaneously
texting and talking with Conrad,

telling him to go
get the gas machine.

The girls immediately responded,
texting concern,

asking if the police were involved,
and again, the defendant lied.

She also tells her friend that
it's her fault that he killed himself.

They, again, offering her comfort,
tell her it's not her fault.

They are paying attention to her now.

So, she has to make it happen.

She has to make him kill himself

so that she continues
to get that attention

and not be known as a liar.

She has to be
the grieving girlfriend

to get the sympathy and the attention
that she believes she deserves.

The next day,
7-13-2014,

do you get a message
from Michelle Carter?

-Yes.
-What does she ask you?

"Can we do something tonight
to get my mind off of it?"

So, on the night of the twelfth,

she texts you that
Conrad killed himself, correct?

- Yes.
- Okay. And then the next day,

she asks you if you want to hang out?

Yes.

In the days following Conrad's death,
she sought attention and sympathy,

posting frequently on Facebook
about how she missed him.

People started texting her,
consoling her,

visiting her, and she suddenly
became important.

What did you do,
after you heard that?

I went to see her.

And was that something
that you would normally do?

It's something I would normally do
for a friend that was having

-a difficult time--
-No, I'm asking you

would you normally do that
for Michelle Carter?

-Go to her house?
-No. Not usually.

And why, on this particular day,
did you decide to go to her house?

Because I would probably want

someone to be with me
if that happened.

So, you felt
that she needed your comfort?

Yes.

Did you observe people comforting her

- in the days that followed?
- Yes.

-And was that more than normal?
-Yes.

And at some point, did you
learn about something called

- Homers for Conrad?
- Yes.

How did you
come to learn about that?

It was on Facebook
and she told me about it.

Do you recall
getting this text message?

Could you please read it for us?

-Did you check it out?
-Yes.

Homers for Conrad
was a tournament

that Michelle was putting on
in Conrad's honor

to raise money
for mental health awareness.

I was curious as to why
the tournament

was being held in Plainville
and not in Mattapoisett.

Why were you curious about that?

'Cause all of Conrad's
family and friends

are from Mattapoisett.

Did you relay to her that you thought

it made more sense
to have it in Mattapoisett

where Conrad's
friends and family are?

Yes.

And how did she respond
to you wanting, suggesting,

that maybe it should be moved
to be more convenient

-for his friends and family?
-She wasn't willing to move it.

When I kept asking about it,
she wanted to make clear

that she was getting credit
for all this,

which I had no problem with.

Given that she wasn't
willing to move it, sir,

what did you do?

I went to the tournament.

And at some point,
did Miss Carter ask that

her photograph be taken
with some of the teams?

Yes.

Is that a fair and accurate depiction
of a team photo with your team,

uh, having won,
and Miss Carter in the middle?

Yes.

How would you describe

Miss Carter's demeanor
throughout Homers for Conrad?

She seemed very happy.

Did you see other young ladies

at Homers for Conrad,
as well as yourself?

-Yes.
-Young ladies from your school,

and yourself, and Miss Carter.
Is that correct?

- Yes.
- Thank you.

And were some of them,
uh, her friends?

They were mostly all
her friends and family.

She begins to get the attention
that she's been craving for.

The grieving girlfriend.

Three years after
Conrad Roy committed suicide,

prosecutors took us to the site
where it happened.

From what I understand,
this is where the boy took his life.

Sitting right here.

It's so sad.

I've never met the girl,
but I've seen pictures of her.

She just has that look
that I remember,

that I see that look,
and it's like, "You little snot.

How could you do that
to a human being,

you 90210 piece of crap?"
Uh, you know?

I'm telling you, if I was on the jury,
I'd say, "Yeah. Go ahead.

Your parents aren't gonna miss you

if you're in Framingham
for the next 30 years.

See ya later, bye."

I-- I swear to God, you know.

To me, this is evil.
This is evil.

And, um, where does evil come from?

I don't know.

Almost immediately
after the indictment, there was...

a narrative that got set,
that didn't change.

And it was set in the community,
it was set in town, in the press.

And that is of this heartless bitch

who killed a guy to get popular.

And the reason
that's such a compelling story

is it combines two things that
people feel about teenage girls.

One of them is that they are--
Uh, they're coercive,

that they have a kind of secret power

that men don't have,
that boys don't have,

and that they can use it.

The other thing is that
they're crazy

and they only live for attention

and they just want to be
popular and they're vapid.

And so, in saying that Michelle
was this, like, coercive ice queen

who killed a guy
in order to become popular,

it was like the perfect combination

of everything that people hate
about teenage girls.

It was near-universal revulsion
at Michelle Carter.

She was portrayed
as this black widow,

this teenage black widow,

a sociopath, a monster.

She was called
the worst person in the world.

Just universal shock and anger
that someone could do this

to this sweet young man, Conrad Roy.

None of this is to say
that what Michelle did wasn't scary.

But the narrative that she did it

in this kind of witchy,
satanic, coercive way,

I think, came more from us
than from her.

It's an American fable.

Men are terrified of women.

We all struggle with that.

There's a long history of witches
in our culture.

And who are witches?

Witches were often

strong, loving women
who treated people,

deranged people, sick people.

And we have vilified women
in many roles throughout history.

There's, in many men, a fear

that women can control them.

There are certain stories

that may sell newspapers
and television shows

that the media will latch onto
and try to turn into something.

You know, you have
a, uh, young girl,

a girl who's attractive,
and it was...

portrayed as something, uh,
that it really wasn't.

They were just trying to
paint Michelle in a bad light,

to try and say she had a motive

because, again,
this case is so unique.

You need to twist the facts.

You need to twist the law

and try to line it all up
to meet your story.

He had had depression.
She knew that.

He was an easy target.

It was all about her
getting the attention

from a dead boyfriend.

How do you even process that?
That someone could be that inhuman?

I believe some people have no soul,
no conscience.

Oh, my goodness.
That's horrible.

Michelle had serious, serious
mental health issues

for most of her adolescent life.

She had a severe eating disorder.
She was incredibly lonely.

I think the eating disorder did to her
what it does to all young girls

who are suffering
from that kind of problem.

It tends to make you feel
odd and strange,

and it tends to make you
want to isolate.

You tend to isolate
from your parents.

You tend to hide
your eating problem.

And then, later on,
she starts to cut herself.

And cutting further
isolates children from adults.

They have to hide it
from the doctors,

hide it from their parents.

And she spends hours
texting back and forth with kids

who also
aren't talking to their parents

about cutting,
about eating disorders,

about suicide.

Are there times when
the defendant would text you

and you would take a while
to text back?

- Yes.
- And would she sometimes,

-the defendant, react to that?
-Yes.

And what-- How would her reaction be

if you took a long time
to respond to her?

She would often repetitively--

repeatedly texted me
until I responded.

And what would you generally describe,
sometimes, to be the length

of the defendant's
text messages to you?

Very lengthy.

There's no question that Michelle
is always asking people to love her.

She's always asking to get together,

and seemingly is not often
getting together.

And a lot of her friends
couldn't reciprocate

because she's too desperate.

She's so needy.
It's a hole no one can fill.

Keep in mind, this is not

such a strange phenomena
among young girls.

Girls in high school
destroy each other.

Michelle Diana Carter.

Good job!

It was all over national news.

Michelle was made out to be the bad guy.

Her friends at that point,
the ones that were called,

did abandon her.

They were painting
a different reality than what existed.

The focus became Michelle,
and not Conrad.

Did he really want to die?

And so, they shied away from

the root causes of
why Conrad Roy killed himself.

Your Honor,
this case is a suicide case.

It is not a homicide.

There just is insufficient evidence
to a reasonable factfinder

to say that Conrad Roy
would not have taken his own life

on July 12th or July 13th of 2014

but for Michelle Carter.

The Commonwealth
is trying to have it

so that the evidence
is all about Michelle Carter.

There is so much evidence
about Conrad Roy

and his decisions and his choices.

I can't fathom the fact that

I was such a happy kid

when I was younger.

And I've created
a monster out of myself

the past few years

because of my depression.

Racing thoughts...

suicidal thoughts.

Go through his Google searches.

"Committing suicide
makes you happy."

There are hundreds
of these searches.

It was Mr. Roy who had a plan
to take his own life.

A long-held belief.

It goes back to the causation issue.

Did she actually cause his death?

The question
at the heart of this case is

can you cause someone else
to commit suicide?

The prosecution has to prove
that Michelle Carter

caused Conrad Roy's death.

To suggest
that he had his own free will,

and we all do, to an extent,
and he could've just ignored her,

is an oversimplification
of what was going on here.

Between the statements of
"Why haven't you done it yet?"

and things of that nature,
were other words,

and they were words of love.

Although it may seem
odd that I'm suggesting

that words of love
could be considered reckless,

I think they are here when you
look at the circumstances.

She knew that he had social anxiety.
She knew that he was depressed.

She knew his frailties
because he confided in her.

But not only that, Your Honor,
she knew herself.

She knew what it was like
to be lonely.

And as June turned into July,

she turned that into
"I love you, kill yourself."

I don't know how
someone could tell someone else

to kill themselves
that supposedly loved them.

You want to help them,
not help them to kill themselves.

It's a perfect storm of a tragedy.

It's a complete tragedy.

Many things played a role in here.

And some things
that seem very important

seem to me to have been withheld
by the prosecution.