Honest Man: The Life of R. Budd Dwyer (2010) - full transcript

(distant, increasing buzzing)

(somber instrumental music)

- State Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer

was praised today as an honest man

and a hero betrayed by
the system that he loved.

- Budd, don't!
- No, no, no.

- Please, please leave the room

if this will,

if this will affect you.

(onlookers shouting)

- Budd Dwyer was a very public man



and he died that way last
Thursday in Harrisburg,

but that's the way Budd Dwyer wanted it.

Whether he was innocent or guilty

of charges against him,

only he and God know that for sure.

(onlookers shouting)

- [Woman] Budd, don't do this!

- Don't, don't!
- Don't do this!

- The state treasurer of Pennsylvania

shot and killed himself today
during a news conference.

R. Budd Dwyer recently
was convicted of bribery.

- Well, the allegations made toward me

are absolute lies.

- A bribe, Budd would never take a bribe.



- It marks the final chapter

of one of the most
bizarre and tragic tales

in Pennsylvania history.

But for friends and
family of R. Budd Dwyer,

they hope it marks a vindication
for their fallen leader.

- Dwyer was a really
popular guy, a likable guy.

- To meet him was to like him.

And to like him was to vote for him.

(somber instrumental music)

- Even when you lost
to him in an election,

you liked him.

- He said he was innocent.

He criticized everyone
connected with his case

before making certain television cameras

covered his suicide today.

(somber instrumental music)

- Most people don't
think of why it happened

or they just assume that

he was guilty and so he did it.

- What was the reason?

Okay, well, yeah because he was,

you know, he was indicted
and then he was found guilty.

It's like, no, that's not reason enough.

I mean, there's gotta be a more
motivating reason, you know?

Because he was innocent
and all this happened.

That's the reason.

(somber instrumental music)

- We were in the House
and Senate at the time

in which a lot of people
were going to jail.

- People offer people
campaign contributions

every day of the flipping week

in the state capital,
in our nation's capital,

and it's how business is done.

It's appalling.

- Campaign contributions
are a necessity of life.

Do think that he would ever be involved

with a quid pro quo?

No.

- Budd was Mr. Clean.

He was the perfect example

of what was good in politics,

not what was bad.

- He was a very honest man.

If he had been seduced,

if he had a weak moment,

I'm not going to hold him irreverence.

- You know, this is one
mistake he made in his life,

and that was,

it was brought on my me

and I haven't forgiven
myself for doing that.

- This is an ongoing criminal conspiracy.

The whole thing should be revisited

and we should get to the bottom of it

and that's what's owed
Dwyer and his family.

- He was a product of a very,
very poor justice system.

Because if it can happen
to people like Budd,

oh, honey, it can happen to anybody.

(somber instrumental music)

- Budd and I had a really good childhood.

I think we both talked about it later,

how nice it had been.

We had a small farm, but my dad had a job,

so it wasn't like a
struggling farm family,

which, even back then
could be really tough.

We always had everything we needed

from my dad's salary.

One year he got, I guess quite
an expensive hunting rifle

for a half birthday,
half Christmas present.

I remember eating rabbit and squirrel,

not with a lot of pleasure,

and pheasants too.

You'd have to eat them very carefully

because the little buckshot

would be in with the meat and (laughs)

have to kind of tongue them
before you chewed them.

He had already gotten
his bachelor's degree

from Allegheny in political
science and accounting.

And at that time, he thought
was going to be a CPA,

but he really liked political science

and so he wanted to go right on

for his master's degree in education.

- A young man walked into my classroom

when I was teaching in the '60s

and he said, "I'm your
new student teacher."

And that was not unusual

because I had probably 12, 14

different student teachers.

But he was rather a large person

and had a big smile.

He was also enamored with a young lady

that was an English teacher in our school.

Her name was Joanne Grappy,

soon to be his wife.

- He was teaching Problems of Democracy,

nicknamed Problems of Dwyer
when he got angry, POD.

And he had, we both had
great groups of kids.

I mean, I loved high school teaching,

just loved it.

- Crawford County had a,

a program that they took a young person

and sent him overseas
and he spent the summer

with a family over there.

- They wanted someone
that year to go to Poland.

And that was really interesting to him

after his political science.

So he spent that summer of 1963 in Poland

and Joanne planned the wedding

and then he got married, they got married

maybe three weeks after
Budd got back from Poland.

- He came back in August
and we got married.

That's, we didn't even
know each other a year.

- Budd was a born teacher

and he would teach people
about the communist state

and they great respect he had

for the freedoms we have.

- He just became inspired

to get more involved in our government,

not to take it for granted.

- I mean he would extol
this in his speeches

and he would show slides

of what Poland was like under communism.

- Once a year,

he would whip out the slides

and we'd sit there and we'd have

Budd Dwyer's Tour of Poland.

- It was a life-changing
experience for him,

but I consider that to be the key,

one of the keys to his election.

- He knew that it was a communist country

and very controlled by the government,

but he was very shocked that
such a thing could happen.

- It gave him a much better

sense of what justice should be,

what politics should be,

what democracy should be.

- And so he decided to start

by running for State
Representative from our area.

- After he taught in Cambridge Springs,

he came back to me one day

in the classroom and he said,

"I think I'm gonna run
for the General Assembly."

And I said, "And I'm
gonna jump over the moon."

- And at the time,

there was a legislative
district that they merged,

you know how they have
this, redo these districts.

Well, they put two incumbents
against each other.

- He said, "Yeah, but I'm gonna run."

He said, "I want you to
become my campaign manager."

And I said, (laughs)
"Your campaign manager?"

I said, "I don't know
anything about campaigns."

So he through me a book with a,

had an orange cover on it,

it said How to Run a Political Campaign.

He said, "You're now my campaign manager."

- So I started talking to him

and I gave him $5.

Five bucks, says, "Here,
put this in your campaign."

- I raised some money for him.

You know, it was small amounts of money,

but I would go out and
ask people for money.

Budd, (laughs) Budd would
never ask anybody for money.

That was just not part of his makeup.

- He never wanted to know who contributed.

Never, he would not look
at a contributors list.

'Cause he didn't want to know.

- And I said, "We don't have any money

"for television or radio or anything,

"so you've gotta make it a
person-to-person campaign."

And I take one side of the streets

and hand out his material

and he'd take the other street.

And Budd loved the matches and nail files.

And (laughs) I don't
where that ever came from,

but he used to give everybody

a pack of matches and a nail file.

And he would, he'd give
the nail file to the women,

the matches to the men,

and that was his introduction to people.

- And the night he won,

it was Fred McKillop and me and Budd

sitting in our three-room apartment.

And the telephone kept ringing, ringing.

And Fred would pick it
up, "Dwyer Headquarters."

- When I used to run his campaign

and answer the phone, "This
is Dwyer Headquarters,"

and he and I were the
only two in the room.

- He looks at me and I looked him.

He said, "What do we do now?"

I said, "Well, I guess
you go to Harrisburg."

He said, "Now I guess I do.

"I did like teaching, but I
guess I go to Harrisburg."

(sentimental guitar music)

- He didn't care who you were.

As long as you lived in his district,

he was there to serve you.

- He would take phone calls for,

you know, someone needed
their pothole fixed.

You know, they would
complain about a pothole

on Route 8 or whatever and,

or they ordered a license plate

and they hadn't gotten it yet.

- Say people were having
trouble with their mortgage,

Budd would go and talk to the bank,

have their mortgages extended.

He saved people's houses.

- During a lot of the year,

he was gone five days a week.

- He would leave the house on Sunday night

and work all week in Harrisburg

and then come home Friday night

and spend the weekend with us.

- I had a husband leaving

for four or five days a week.

And that was very, very hard.

- When you look back
at their relationship,

it seems the two of them

had a really good marriage,

despite all the time apart.

- But then there was excitement.

We had a lot of good opportunities,

we met people we'd have never met.

I mean, where else would a little gal

from Meadville, oh my
gosh, in Blooming Valley

be on a stage with Reagan

or have Budd's picture
in Newsweek with Nancy?

- I'd go to a few political
affairs and I saw him,

he and his wife would
be there shaking hands.

They were real political animals

and really a darling young couple.

And you could see they were on their way.

(sentimental guitar music)

- It was the fifth or sixth grade.

I had a play, I was the cat in Cinderella.

So I had a very small part

(laughs) in a fifth grade play,

and it was, like, on a Wednesday night.

And so my dad drove home from Harrisburg,

five-hour drive, to watch me in this play

and then drove back so he could be

at work the next morning.

- I think that may be one reason

why he ran for treasurer,

because he could move
the family down there.

He wouldn't still be responsible

for the people in that area.

- I started a rumor, one
of the things you start,

I said that a lot of people
in the Republican Party

are asking Budd Dwyer
to run for treasurer.

And so all you have to do on Capitol Hill

is start a rumor like that

and it spends all over the hill.

And so it was thousands of people

were asking Budd Dwyer to
run for state treasurer.

But I happened to represent
all the fairs in the state

and we would go to the
fairs and Budd would take

an old station wagon and a trailer

and he'd set it up at the fair.

And then he'd go up and down the midway,

he would shake hands with everybody

until his hand would swell up

and he could hardly take his ring off.

People just don't understand,

once you met Budd Dwyer,
you'd vote for him.

He spent only $50,000
to be elected treasurer

of this 12,000,000-person
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

♫ Don't wait

♫ Or hesitate

♫ Vote Dwyer for Treasurer of the '80s

♫ Vote Dwyer for Treasurer of the '80s

(upbeat marching tune)

- [Budd] Right hand?

Yeah, I'm sorry.

(all laugh)

- Repeat after me.

I, R. Budd Dwyer.

- I, R. Budd Dwyer.

- Do somberly swear.

- Do somberly swear.

- That I will support, obey, and defend.

- That I will support, obey, and defend.

- The Constitution of the United States.

- The Constitution of the United States.

- And the Constitution
of this commonwealth.

- And the Constitution
of this commonwealth.

- And that I will discharge

the duties of my office with fidelity.

- And that I will discharge

the duties of my office with fidelity.

- Congratulations.

(audience applauds)
- Thank you.

I've said many, many
times since November 4th,

only in America

in response to congratulations

I've received from people.

I mean by that that only in America

could a kid from Blooming Valley,

and that was the nearest
town to which I lived,

without influence,
without a political base,

with a political legacy

be elected to a statewide office

in the fourth-largest state

in this great nation of ours,

a state of almost 12,000,000 people.

And I think all of us
can be just so grateful

because if it can happen to me,

it can happen to many
more like me and like you.

- Politics is,

regrettably, it wasn't only what he did,

it's who he was.

And, which, I think was,

had a significant amount
to do with his demise.

(somber piano music)

- I was at Treasury before he

was elected state treasurer.

I was registered a Democrat

and he's a Republican.

And usually they change over.

So he knew that I knew government and

said, "Would you stay?"

And I said, "Sure."

- And when he started to look into

the operation of the treasury,

he realized, this is really outdated.

The state's losing money.

They could be getting interest

on this money that's sitting there.

You know,

the treasurer at that time

invested and disbursed $29 billion.

That's a lot of money flowing
through bank accounts,

so for the overnight funds

and interest and so forth.

- Budd was a good listener

and a good decision-maker.

- I remember just little things.

I can remember the waste line.

- [Reporter] Dateline Pennsylvania.

Concerned citizens rally to
protect the commonwealth.

- [Young Man] Extra,
extra, read all about it!

- [Reporter] They've joined

with Pennsylvania's government

to fight the waste of their tax dollars.

Call and win the war on waste.

(somber piano music)

- Thornburgh was governor
and Budd was treasurer.

But then a couple of things occurred

that it wasn't even Budd
that precipitated it,

but Thornburgh blamed Budd for.

- Thornburgh was of the same party

and older than Budd,

more experienced than Budd.

I think in the beginning it,

Thornburgh thought that Budd was okay.

- Thornburgh went to Germany.

And he takes his wife, which is fine.

If you're getting a room, you don't say

divide it in half for my wife.

You get a room and

you could put that through
on the expense account.

But then Thornburgh also submitted

Ginny's airline ticket to be paid.

- And the treasurer publicly said,

"I'm not paying for their trip,"

which infuriated the governor.

And maybe Budd should
have not done it publicly,

but he did it publicly.

- You get the Republic State Committee

or your own finance group or someone.

That's illegal.

Now, Budd didn't flag it down.

He didn't look at all these things.

It was internal

that the person checks everything on there

came to me and said,

"Look at this."

And I said,

and she said, "We can't pay it."

And "is that correct

"or should I cover it up?"

I said, "No,

"you cover it up, you go to jail."

You just send it back

and have them pay it.

Well, instead of that going,

all hell breaks loose.

I don't know how the
press got ahold of it.

- A reporter called
that to Budd's attention

in an area of time and place

that Budd could not ignore it.

And I'll tell you, he might have.

- Thornburgh blamed Budd Dwyer

for attacking him and Ginny

by putting this out to the press.

(somber piano music)

- People who are doing reporting

sometimes like to see conflict.

So they next bring up to Budd

the fact that Thornburgh's sons

are being transported at state expense

to Massachusetts and back for schooling.

(somber piano music)

- It was the state police
who were complaining

and said they're being used

as chauffeurs and taxi
drivers for the kids.

- And

wanted Budd Dwyer to pay for it,

state treasurer and he
wouldn't pay for it.

And he had a press conference

and he put it up on the board,

this is what the, how many
times the police have,

state police have gone up there.

This is what it cost them.

And I demand that Thornburgh

pay that money back to the state.

- And I think it was the state police

that went to the press initially.

Because we were getting
calls from the press,

what the hell are you guys
in Treasury doing about this?

You know, are you covering it up or what?

And at this point, I guess
Thornburgh's paranoid

thinking Budd is out to shaft him.

And Budd had nothing to do with it.

- I haven't run across many people

that have too many bad things
to say about Budd Dwyer.

On the other hand,

I haven't run across many people

that have good things to
say about Dick Thornburgh.

- Well, you know, they were
both good friends of mine.

Of course, Budd was my best friend.

He was best man at my wedding.

But Dick Thornburgh, by using
troopers or things like that,

he didn't mean to do any ripping up.

Dick Thornburgh's a very honorable guy.

And money is very incidental to him.

Honorable guy.

But, you know, it's just too bad

when those two went on
the collision course.

- That's the nature of politics, you know?

You don't personalize it, you don't.

It's just you go from
one issue to the next and

the basic name of the game is to add to,

not subtract from, so, you know,

you don't write people off

because you disagreed yesterday.

Most people in our society
don't understand that.

- Thornburgh was

vitriolic about Budd,

calling him a freaking country bumpkin

is what he, what he called him,

and a number of other names.

- The governor said, "I'm gonna get

"that fat son of a bitch

"if it's the last thing I do."

And he got him.

- It is with pride and pleasure

that I am formally announcing
my reelection candidacy

for the office of
Treasurer of Pennsylvania.

- When he ran for his second
term as the treasurer,

he was already involved in
a little bit of the scandal.

And the man running against him,

his name was Al Benedict.

- I categorically deny my opponent,

Auditor General, Al Benedict's allegation

that a $300,000 kickback was involved

with the Computer Technology Associates

FICA recovery contract.

- I'm Joanne Dwyer.

We've always had fun campaigning,

but this year has been different

because our family has been attacked

in an ugly and personal way

and it has hurt us.

- Essentially, this was
a scandal over bribery

and a warning of a no-bid state contract.

And at the time, this was

a contract that was to
help retired teachers

recover some over-payment of taxes

and they were owed some tax money.

(somber instrumental music)

- [Narrator] Once upon a time,
in the land of Pennsylvania,

lived Al Benedict, king of the auditors.

With your tax money, King
Al hired some real bad eggs.

- [Narrator] Michael Hanna, Senior,

indicted for selling state jobs.

Nick Saittis, convicted
for selling state jobs.

John Kerr, convicted
for selling state jobs.

If we let Al Benedict get his hands

on our state treasury,

we're the ones who'll
have egg on our face.

Budd Dwyer is running on his record.

We can't afford to let
King Al run with his.

- [Official] And that I will discharge

the duties of state treasurer

of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

- And I will discharge the duties

of state treasurer of the
Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

- [Official] With fidelity.

- With fidelity.

- Thank you and congratulations.

- Thank you.

(audience applauds)

- When he was reelected,

I believe that made him feel wonderful

that the people still had faith in him,

or enough had faith in him to reelect him

and not believe all these
things that were being said.

- And I know I speak for
everyone here present today

in welcoming you back for
your second term, Budd,

and in extending to you and your family

all the very best in your
duties as state treasurer

of this great Commonwealth
of Pennsylvania.

Thank you.

(audience applauds)

- Budd was too trusting of people.

You say how can that be a flaw?

Well, it is when you're
working in the political arena

because you come into contact
with all kinds of people

and Budd would see everybody.

A guy would get out of prison

and was a constituent.

He would come see Budd
and Budd would see him.

- I met John Torquato.

He was a book salesman.

He was and he sold me books.

He was a good salesman

and he appeared to be a good guy.

- Mr. Torquato,

instead of recognizing his own merit,

he would try to bribe people.

He would lie when the
truth would do better.

- I always told 'em, you know,

once I heard the name Torquato,

the next time you'd see me

would have been on the east coast.

I'd have still been running

because of the reputation of the family.

(somber instrumental music)

- Torquato's dad allegedly

was a mafia leader in
western Pennsylvania.

- [Vince] Matter of
fact, it was Thornburgh

when he was US attorney

put Torquato's father in prison.

- One time, I said,

"Well, why would you
even talk to this guy?"

He said, "Well, it's something

"that I always remembered
my dad telling me

"and I want you to remember.

"Don't let the sins of the father

"cast down to the son."

So he goes, you know,

just because his dad was a bad guy,

didn't mean this guy was a bad guy.

- And then he went and moved to California

and he started at CTA.

And he called me one day

and wanted me to help him get a contract.

- Torquato was a Democrat.

His family background was Democrat,

which meant

to him that he needed a
friend who was a Republican

to help him meet and influence Budd.

- Torquato's MO was that the moment

he met somebody and shook their hand,

he would offer them a bribe.

And the psychology behind that was

I've met you, I've offered you a bribe

and you didn't pick up the
phone and call the FBI.

You know what, buddy, you're
part of the conspiracy.

And that's how he would hook 'em in.

- He's the one person in this whole thing

I haven't forgiven

for what he did to me.

CTA wanted to enter an exclusive contract

with the state treasury

for all the school
districts in Pennsylvania

to make a FICA recovery.

The Supreme Court said

you couldn't charge FICA tax on sick days.

So there were lots and lots of people

who were entitled to a refund.

And his company would go around

and get refunds for people.

- We didn't know anything about it.

I had no idea.

I thought

the FICA was a dirty four-letter word.

- The fee to CTA

was gonna be millions of dollars.

And

it's not worth it.

- We shouldn't have had
a thing to do with it.

Again, that would have
been Thornburgh's job.

He did one of these for,

I think it was for the state employees.

And they should have done it,

this whole contract for
the school employees.

- You go back and you study the CTA thing

and I began to sympathize with Dwyer

as, you know, the bumpkin from Meadville,

this naive guy that didn't know

what he was walking into.

- Torquato wanted me to offer him $300,000

so we'd get the contract.

And I kept telling him,

John, we don't have to
offer him 300 cents.

He's my good friend.

We have the best program,
we're the cheapest.

We're gonna get the contract.

- Torquato really was smart.

He had a system that worked

and that one person
could do 300,000 people

working in a school system.

One person.

- And he kept saying,

no, you gotta offer him this money.

And then he got my wife involved

and she kept saying to me,

"Why don't you go see Budd Dwyer?

"He's your good friend.

"Offer him the money."

I said, "If I go into his office,

"he's gonna throw me out

"if I said, 'Budd, we're gonna

"'give you a $300,000
contribution to your campaign.'"

I felt surely he'd throw
me out of the office.

- Smith time and time and again,

he says that Torquato was
pressuring him about Dwyer,

"Did you offer the bribe to Dwyer?"

that you start to see

that's the dynamic between these guys.

That Smith was a little
bit more cautious about it,

or he'd say contributions

when Torquato would say bribe.

- I went to up Budd's office.

I had an appointment with him

and I went into his office

about 1 o'clock in the afternoon.

And I said, "Budd, you know,

"I don't know how to tell you this,

"but my client wants to make a $300,000

"contribution to you if
he gets this contract."

And I said, "I'm sure you
don't want to do this."

Said, "What?

"I don't know."

He said, "I wouldn't?

"It sounds pretty good to me."

And I was shocked when he said that.

(somber instrumental music)

- Smith never offered Budd a bribe,

but I wouldn't doubt
that Smith would take it

from Torquato and pocket it

without ever saying anything to Budd.

- Why didn't Dwyer pick up the phone?

Well, maybe there was nothing
ever for him to report

because maybe there never
was a bribery offer,

that there was a lot of pressure

from political elements
to sign this contract.

Well, that's not illegal.

- And Torquato, he drinks a lot.

And he gets a few drinks and he says,

"I'm gonna do the
Pennsylvania state contract

"and I know I'm gonna because
Budd Dwyer's in my pocket."

- Well, that's when the

FBI heard something.

They raided his place,

they get the computer,

and the computer has in there

Torquato's intention to bribe Budd Dwyer.

- The corporate records were
stored on computer tapes.

When the FBI seized the disks,

took them to Quantico,

they were able to duplicate

the programs in the computer

and they were able to really
reproduce the evidence

showing who was slated to receive bribes.

- Well, Christ,

to me, that's not criminality.

Here's a crazy bastard,
drunk out of his mind,

putting things in a computer.

- So my scribbles or my notes

to myself are enough to
send someone to prison.

That's, I mean, that's bizarre.

It doesn't make sense.

- The attorney general was
in there, Leroy Zimmerman.

- They were gonna indict the

attorney general of Pennsylvania,
Leroy Zimmerman too,

but he never, for somehow,

and also John Shumaker, the senator.

- Why not Shumaker, why not Zimmerman?

You start with all the little guys,

you work your way up, you get 'em all.

Instead, West goes right for Budd Dwyer.

It's terrible.

West's secretary told me early on

that Shumaker's name was on the indictment

and that he came in and
had a meeting with West

and West came out and said,

"Take his name off the indictment."

Thornburgh as governor got the

Reagan administration I guess at the time

to appoint his protege Jimmy West.

You know, he's,

Harrisburg, he's called Jimmy the Weasel.

- Jim West came to
Harrisburg with Thornburgh.

And he was the acting US attorney

and he's the one that brought the charges.

- And even Jim West,

who prosecuted the case,

has freely admit, not a
penny was paid to Budd Dwyer.

- Dwyer never received the money,

but that is still bribery

when a high public official
agrees to take the money

and when the intent is there

to eventually accept the money.

It doesn't have to change hands.

- It's a long way to talking about it

then to taking the $300,000.

And we never even came close to that.

- West could really advance his career

from being acting US attorney

to getting the position
because he'd get the big pelt,

he'd get a big

conviction.

- When after I'm convicted

and given the 12-year sentence,

West came to me and said,

"Okay, now I'm gonna indict your wife."

And, of course, we had these

three small kids in the house here

and she's gonna go to jail
at the same time I am.

So I went to see Budd

and I said, "Budd, all they want you to do

"is resign your position

"and that's the end of it."

Because I told him and I told
his lawyer, Paul Killion,

they're gonna indict Judy next week

if I don't come in and help 'em

and I can't, I can't do that.

So you gotta convince Budd

that he should just resign his position

and he won't get indicted

and that'll be the end of it.

But he wouldn't do that.

He said, "No, we'll take our chances."

And they took their chances.

And lost.

- They agreed to take bribes

and they agreed to use their offices,

both as the treasurer and as
the state Republican chairman,

in order to influence a
multi-million dollar state contract.

- One time, I said, "Look,

"did you do anything wrong?

"Did you take the money?

"Because it doesn't matter to me,

"but, you know, I just need to know."

He goes, "I absolutely did nothing wrong."

- My dad was never a money-hungry person.

I mean, he was never materialistic.

I mean, just look at how he dressed.

(laughs)

You know, I mean, he was never,

that was never a focus
to him that I ever saw.

- My son was, he was 12,

he had just turned 12,

and we visiting in the summer.

And we went to a local, like
a miniature village place.

So I paid for his child admission

and then we were walking around

and somehow Budd saw the
ticket or I mentioned it

and he, he just could not believe it.

He went on and on and on.

How could I do this?

How could I do something dishonest?

So I finally went back
and I paid the extra money

and then he was satisfied.

- When it snowed, he was
the one out there shoveling.

He was the one out there,
you know, mowing the lawn.

When he was state treasurer,

we could've hired that stuff out,

you know, if we'd wanted to.

But no, those were the things

that were important to him to do.

I mean, I hate to make it
sound like the Cleavers,

(laughs) but really, we kinda were.

- Budd at first laughed too.

He said, "This is so dumb."

And then, I think it was

Bill Sanko, who was part of his staff,

said, "Budd, it's not dumb.

"It's gonna be serious.

"They're gonna go to a grand jury

"and see what they can do."

And he did.

(somber instrumental music)

- Budd, when he was indicted,

it was all he could do
to choke back tears.

He couldn't believe it, he said,

I think he taught civics in high school.

And he says, "You know, how the hell

"could this happen in America?"

- They got a change of venue

and took him up in the mountains

where, you know, they're not exposed

to the everyday workings of politics

and the ins and outs of the system.

(somber instrumental music)

- I mean, you're supposed to be tried

by a jury of your peers.

My dad had a master's
degree and a law degree.

Some of these people,
from what I understand,

hadn't graduated high school.

I mean, that's not your peers.

- Not that everybody
who didn't go to college

is, is not

capable or competent.

But in a situation like that

when you can get someone who

can take eight weeks off from a job,

you know, what are you gonna get?

- Now let me tell you about the judge.

Malcolm Muir was the judge.

- That judge up there was a hardliner.

Budd was, you know, was
scared to death of him.

- For 14 weeks at my trial,

he'd beat us over the head every day.

It was like a second prosecutor every day.

- Everybody in Pennsylvania
knows what Muir is.

He's not a fair jurist,

he is a hanging judge.

He's a party house judge.

Budd Dwyer knew that and even said it.

(somber instrumental music)

- Torquato told me

he said, "If you do that,

"if you go to the grand jury tomorrow,

"when you come home, you'll find Moose,"

that's my son, Will's,
nickname at the time,

"floating face down in the swimming pool."

(somber instrumental music)

- You'd be surprised, in the courtroom,

it wasn't like Law and Order.

It was very undramatic.

- The case was extremely complicated.

I mean, and looking,
even looking back now,

the case is still very complicated.

(somber instrumental music)

- The trial was pretty boring.

They were going through the points.

And I took notes on the trial,

as well as Budd, of
course, did in his journal.

But when Smith put his head down and cried

and said he would do anything

to save his wife and son,

that was a moment that was unforgettable.

- When Bill Smith said,

"Yes, I'd do anything to protect my son,"

it's over.

(somber instrumental music)

- In my trial, I testified,

I think I testified that I
didn't offer him the money.

(somber instrumental music)

But in fact, I did.

- Yes, we thought that was

a really strong point for Budd,

since the whole thing was a plea bargain.

And then if Smith had been threatened

to lie about what he said Budd had done,

obviously, obviously
there wasn't any case.

- That's the only part,

one part of the transcript

that's missing.

- I heard the excuse for it

not being in the transcript was that

the person, the court reporter,

got upset and when Smith appeared upset

and so didn't get it all down, but

I don't really believe that.

- He got very, I think,
suspicious at that point

of other people.

You know, he's like, don't
leave your car unlocked.

You never know what
someone could plant in it

to make me look bad, you know?

So I think, you know, he got,

he got concerned about those things,

about people setting him up and,

you know, 'cause he felt he'd been set up,

so he's like, well, what
extremes will they go to?

- I don't know what will happen

as far as the verdict regarding
the two people on trial.

But there's just been a plethora of lies

from their government's main witness,

you know, from A to Z.

And he's, I guess this other day,

he's even admitted he's lied quite a bit.

- Torquato was a good
liar, I mean, he was,

if I didn't know that he was lying,

I'd, you know.

He was good witness

and even Malcolm Muir

said he was a very good witness.

And he was

but he was lying.

- Of course, if anyone really thinks

about plea bargaining, it's, it's a bribe

either with a lesser
fine or a lesser sentence

for someone to lie about someone else.

- When you go up against the government

and they've got unlimited
resources to come after you.

- He said at one time,

"These people that are lining up

"to appear as witnesses,

"if I would have ever approached them

"and said, 'Look,

"'I will help you raise
money for your defense

"'and all you need to
do is tell the truth,'

"but then I would be in
really serious problems

"because that would be considered
tampering with a witness."

- You've got too many people

lying, telling different stories.

And I don't think a lot of
those people necessarily,

like Bill Smith, probably

intrinsically a bad person.

Yet,

and I think at some
point, he would have been,

was waiting just to be able to

tell the truth on what had happened.

- When I wrote The Sins of Our Fathers,

I interviewed Jim West.

And he makes the point
that people are like,

there's like a bell curve,

that you have really bad people

and really good people on one side,

and then the great mass of
people are in the middle

and it's easier for them
to fall into a trap.

- For me to get up there as a lawyer

and lie on the stand wasn't

very easy to do.

And the only justification I had for it

and still have for it

is that they'd lied so badly against me

and they were doing their very best

to convict me with these lies

and I think that West knew about,

knew they were lies too.

He knew Torquato was lying.

I burst an artery.

After I testified in Dwyer's case,

three days I was on the stand.

- It wasn't a matter of

being innocent 'til you're proven guilty.

You're guilty unless you really could have

woven a tale that proved you innocent.

- It's pretty common not

to have your client take the stand

because the idea is you have

this really sharp prosecutor

and he's gonna trip you up

and you're gonna stumble,

so it's a pretty common thing.

But what's unforgivable is not to present

any defense at all.

- They really didn't think

that the prosecution

had delivered enough case, enough evidence

to support its case.

And they punctured enough
holes in their witnesses

that they didn't need to bring up

any more witnesses to confuse the issue.

- He was losing his confidence.

He was losing it.

And he was giving up.

- He wasn't handling it good

and that was one of the reasons

I always talked to him about
sports and other things

because he seemed to be
a little depressed to me.

(somber instrumental music)

- And I think where he
was really remorseful,

people liked him and I think he felt

he'd left a lot of people down.

That's what really hurt him.

- He didn't have

hate in his heart

as much as he had hurt.

- I could see day by day,

just giving up.

Inch by inch by inch by inch,

thinking I'm up against that brick wall.

It's just not crumbling.

We need a miracle and there
wasn't a miracle at the time.

- I mean, my dad was
always, my whole life,

very a jovial person, you know?

I mean, a lot of laughter, you know?

And he had this big, bellowing laugh.

You know, you'd be in
ballroom with 300 people

and you could hear my dad across the room,

I mean, this big, hearty laugh.

But his demeanor changed throughout,

you know, from the indictment
on through the trial

where he'd just,

I mean, he was very concerned

and it showed, it showed in,

you know, his stature and his posture.

- We went into Killion's office one day

and Killion was still trying to get him to

plea deal or something

and Budd was adamant about it,

just adamant about it.

- And he wouldn't hear of it

because he didn't do anything wrong.

He said, "I'm not gonna be,"

'cause he had talked about it,

he said, "I'm not gonna plea bargain

"to something I didn't do."

- And he went to the
restroom and Killion said,

"Do you think he could be suicidal?"

I said, "Are you kidding me?"

I said, "Budd loves life too much."

I mean, he didn't wanna sleep.

- He had never lost anything in his life.

He was always, you know,

a star athlete in high school.

He was, you know,
respected in his fraternity

and through college years.

And he had won his Senate, his House,

never lost an election, even to delegate.

I mean nothing.

So I think what happened is

when this started to unravel,

I think it became so
overwhelming to him that

this stuff could happen
to me in this country.

- Don't you forget

that you have a breaking point.

Everybody does.

- Budd also thought he was
living on borrowed time.

He had said that a number of times and

that was based on the fact they gave him

no chance to live when he was born.

And he did.

The second time,

he was underneath his car,

which was up on blocks, doing something.

He said for no reason whatsoever,

he rolled out from underneath there.

And he no more than got out

and that car smashed right to the ground.

And so he had always said, "You know, Jo,

"I'm living on borrowed time."

And maybe he figured too,

my borrowed time has now run out.

(somber instrumental music)

(dynamic instrumental music)

- [Announcer] With Don Shriver,

Joey Stevens, and John Evans,

this is Action News 24.

(dynamic instrumental music)

- The federal conviction last night

of State Treasurer R.
Budd Dwyer of Meadville

and former State Republican
Chairman Robert Asher

was the talk of the state today.

Both men were found guilty

of all federal criminal counts

related to a bribery conspiracy scheme

with a California computer company

which sought a state contract.

- This is a sad and shocking day for me.

Totally unbelievable.

I'm totally innocent
of all of these charges

and I don't know how this could happen.

- The state treasurer, R. Budd Dwyer,

will stay on the job, at least for now.

Dwyer and former State
GOP Chairman Robert Asher

were convicted on all counts last night

following four days of deliberations

by a federal court jury in Williamsport.

- [Reporter] The jury spent

more than 20 hours over four days

weighing the evidence against the two men.

And when it was over,
their verdict was guilty.

For prosecutor James West,

the case was a major victory.

- Reaction to the verdict,

I think we were very pleased.

The jury did a very conscientious job.

It was a very hard-working jury.

I think they approached the indictment

in a very systematic
manner and went through it.

And we're certainly pleased

with the results of their work.

(static)
(upbeat keyboard music)

- Good evening and
welcome to NewsWatch 35.

Two down, how many more to go?

That message from the man

who prosecuted State
Treasurer R. Budd Dwyer

and Robert Asher.

Acting US Attorney James West

says the conviction of Dwyer and Asher

opens the door to an investigation

of other public officials
involved in the bribery scheme.

In the meantime, Governor Dick Thornburgh

today praised the successful
prosecution in the case

but pointed out that Dwyer
is not required to resign.

(static)

- I was very surprised and sorry

because I knew him as a young man.

And I don't think he did it.

- I can't even think of
him as being guilty period.

I always had visions of Budd

being our governor one day.

- Although the verdict is in

and the jury found Dwyer guilty,

people from him hometown that knew him

when he was a citizen
and a local politician

feel that, beyond a doubt,

Dwyer will be vindicated during appeals.

(static)

- Following the verdict,
juror Carolyn Edwards

told reporters that the jury tried

to find both men not guilty,

but every time they
considered the evidence,

the only unanimous decision
they could reach was guilty.

- By law, Dwyer may have
to officially resign

in January when he's sentenced.

He says, however, he won't step down

until he gets a chance
to appeal his conviction.

(static)

- Right away, I jumped on the other side

and said, "Well, we'll appeal.

"It'll be fine, we'll
appeal, we'll appeal."

And he

didn't quite go for that, all that.

- An appeal would have been

I think $25,000 more

and he already owed his lawyer money

for the two and half years of legal work.

That's, that's not cheap and

so that was pretty much
the end of the line.

(wind roaring)

(somber instrumental music)

- I remember being home for Christmas

and that was a really
hard Christmas obviously.

- Christmas was his favorite holiday

and the whole family's favorite holiday.

He wanted nothing to mar the
image of around Christmas.

- I mean, looking back,

he other things going on his mind,

you know, other plans
that he was formulating

that, you know, we were
completely oblivious to.

(somber instrumental music)

- I went down a couple times

to his home in Hershey and

all the blinds would be pulled down, dark,

and there, you'd have one little light

so you didn't trip

and you could see where you're going.

- He started typing a lot.

We had a little manual typewriter.

This, you know, before computers and such.

And he'd set it up in the, in the

sunroom that we had and he started typing.

(typing)

- And when I talked about it,

a lot of it was, I'm typing everything.

I'm typing all my notes.

I'm typing everything to get together

to work on the appeal.

(typing)

- Of course, later we realized he was,

you know, typing his own press conference.

- Honestly,

nobody

saw it coming.

Nobody.

- I think a lot of people afterwards,

I think a lot of people were like,

how could you, you know, as the family,

how can you be with him every day

and not know he was going to do this?

I mean, I think people
thought that we all knew.

Like we were, you know, which is absurd.

(laughs)

- I could tell how depressed
he was in his letters.

Maybe he, maybe he poured out more

because we were so far away in Germany.

- Maybe if I'd been more astute, more,

wouldn't you think, being a counselor,

I could have picked up that stuff

or put it together like that?

And I didn't.

- You know, you have Robert Asher,

who was tried with Dwyer,

given this small, basically,

pat on the wrist from all this

and he's back in politics.

You know, they were after
decades in jail for Dwyer

and they wanted to take away his pensions

going back to his school.

They were gonna leave him with nothing.

- All through this period,

would talk about it.

He was all concerned

about

the retirement and his wife and kids

getting the pension.

- The first job that Budd ever had

had a state pension as a schoolteacher.

- The crimes he was accused of

you forfeit your pension.

You know, all those years he put in,

that was, sticks in my mind,

something like a million and a quarter.

He says, "Well, am I done now or what?"

I said, "Well,

"you haven't been sentenced yet."

That always bothered me.

I could have lied to him

and he probably wouldn't have,

if I'da lied to him and said,

"You're gonna get the pension,"

he wouldn't have committed suicide then.

But then this family
would have been without

anything.

- This was the night
before he shot himself.

He came in and we talked

and he said, "I might get 18 years.

"But we might be,

"we might be roommates at Allenwood."

He said, "I just wanted to tell you

"that I don't hold anything against you.

"I understand what you
did and why you did it."

- Yep, I came home from
school that day and

then we went out to dinner that night.

We went to Vicante's in Hershey,

which was like a favorite place that,

you know, we used to go to.

- The owner of Vicante's had come up

and, you know,

gave a really nice little pat on the back,

said, "I don't care what they say,

"I don't believe you're,"

and it was really sorta

gut-wrenching.

- We had dinner and the waitress came over

and said, "Would you like
anything for dessert?"

And he said, "No, no."

And he goes, "I'm watching my figure"

or something like that.

And so he didn't have any dessert.

And to this day, I wanna ask him,

why didn't you have dessert?

(dark, distorted music)

- And the next morning,

I'm the one, while going to school,

who drove him to the office.

(dark, distorted music)

- He came in to give me a hug

and, you know, say bye and

I had a,

I had a card and a poem

that I'd written for him and

just said, "You know, I'm proud of you."

I said, "I'm proud of you too, Dad."

I was gonna give him this card

but I hadn't signed it yet,

so I didn't give it to him, so.

- And

still, when he left that next morning

for the press conference,

I thought it was just a

press conference.

- So I thought, you know,

it's gonna be a hard day for him.

Like, I'll just sign it today

and I'll give to him when he gets home

'cause then it'll be good for him

to have when he gets home.

So now I wish I would
have given him the card.

- And he just said, gave me a kiss,

said, "I'll see you later.

"Be good.

"Drive safe," 'cause a storm was coming

or it had already started.

He goes, "Be safe."

But he did say, "Go
right home after class."

- It was about an hour
earlier than his conference.

He says, "Could I share
your office with you?"

I could've said, I said,

"You gave me this office.

"Sure, come on in, Budd."

So he came in and he,

he sat there and opened his briefcase

where the lid was up here
and I couldn't see in

or I probably would have seen the gun.

It was a pretty damn big gun.

- I said, "Oh, you know,

"I'd like to be there to support you."

He said, "I don't want you there.

"Under any circumstance,
I don't want you there."

- I had thought, I had worried

that he might possibly do this

and I had told Joanne not to,

not to leave him alone, please.

- So I said, "Okay, I'll grab my jacket

"and come down with you."

He said, "No, no, don't,

"don't come down, you know
what this is all about."

- And of course, that wasn't,

the advice was worthless
because wasn't alone.

- The state treasurer, Budd Dwyer,

who was recently convicted of bribery,

called a news conference
at which many people

thought he was going to resign.

- We have worked diligently
for the last six years

to modernized this department.

We've taken it from an antique

into one of the most widely modern

and recognized treasury departments

in the United States.

Needless to say, this is what I would like

to be remembered for.

But I know, you know,

my obituary and everything else

will have CTA and that is
all I be remembered for.

- And, of course, I kept
looking for the part

that we all expected,

and that was his resignation announcement.

And it wasn't there.

- I ask those that believe in me

to continue to work untiringly

for the creation of a true justice system

here in the United States.

- I should have gotten more suspicious.

I did a little bit, but I'm,

because, you know, he never

went to an important meeting without me.

Well,

he goes down and pretty soon I heard that

real loud bang and,

I immediately knew what it was.

- Don, there are some things for you to do

and there's a note in here for Joanne.

Okay.

(camera snaps)

When I, and I...

- Budd, don't!
- No, no, no!

- Please, don't do this.
- Please leave the room

if this will,

if this will affect you.

- Budd! Budd!
- Budd, no!

- No, no, no!

Don't, don't, don't, don't.

Don't, don't!

- Don't do this!
- Budd, listen to me.

- This will hurt someone.

- Budd, Budd, Budd!
- Stay back, stay back!

(gun fires)

(woman screams)
(all shouting)

- [Woman] My god!
(camera snaps)

- [James] Don't panic please.

(all shouting)
Alright, settle down!

- [Man] Who's shooting in here?

Please, please, that's enough.

That's enough.

Please leave the room now!

(cameras snapping)

Dear god.

- And I called Jim West

and I

told him, "You guys just murdered

"my dear friend Budd Dwyer."

(somber piano music)

- I think the saddest thing

I wrote about in the book

was when West's secretary was saying

that when Dwyer shot himself,

she was typing a note to the judge

asking for the maximum penalty

and then West had her destroy that

because it wouldn't do to have the media

get their hands on that.

- If there'd have been any thought

that he was going to do what he did,

I know I would have tried
to have taken some action.

- [Interviewer] What would you have done?

- Well, the only thing
left to do would be,

quite frankly, try to
have his bail revoked

and put in a setting where he
couldn't have hurt himself.

- I think it broke him.

I don't think he was himself

when he committed suicide.

- And it said,

I don't know, breaking news, or whatever,

out of Harrisburg.

It says,

State Treasurer Budd Dwyer
apparently shot himself.

And

my first reaction was

it was a figure of speech,

like, oh, you know, he shot himself.

No, you know, he resigned

and, you know, might
as well have admitted,

you know, it's like,

that's kind of how I interpreted it

until I saw my mom's reaction.

- I had been driving home

and I heard, I was almost to the house

when I heard on the
radio what had happened

at the press conference.

They had done a break-in.

And I screamed in the car and, you know,

when you're trying to drive
in the snow and it's tough

and I'm probably two
minutes from the house,

but it seemed like it was two hours,

trying to maneuver and drive.

And when I finally got home,

I just slammed the, slammed into the curb

and ran into the house.

- Then once I realized, okay,

it wasn't, it wasn't
figurative, it was literal,

he literally shot himself,

I was thinking, well, he's injured.

We need to get to the
hospital to be with him.

Never occurred to the me that, you know,

it was intentional or that he died.

I mean, occasionally he would have a,

he carried a handgun in his boot,

and I assumed that the
handgun actually went off

and he'd shot himself in the foot.

- The

coroner

also gave me one they found in his shoe.

So he had a backup.

So he had no intention of
ever getting out of there.

- And I don't know at
what point I realized

that, okay, it wasn't,

it's not an injury, we don't
need to go the hospital.

(somber instrumental music)

- I have written at the top

"the worst day of my life."

And then I wrote, "home
after six, Mike there.

"And I guessed horrible
news from his face.

"Budd died.

"Just so, so terrible.

"Poor Brian was home alone
when DeeDee and Rob called,

"then Brian saw it on TV."

(emotional guitar music)

- Many of kid in this area saw it

because they were all home from school

because it was snowed all night long.

- We had had a news station on then.

And they were running it.

And we didn't see it,

so we just all scattered out of the room

and just ran and covered our ears

so we didn't see it, hear it, anything.

It was playing.

- We had friends in Holland and in England

and it was, it was on
television everywhere.

- To broadcast or not to broadcast

that final image.

To look or avert the eye.

- Get your cameras out.

Please get out of the room.

You've got everything that,

that can be gotten at this point, please.

Paul, please.

Paul, please!

(camera snaps)

- [Man] I haven't got anything.

- Please wrap up your cameras

and get out of the room.

- We, I decided to show it

right up until the time

the man put the pistol in his mouth.

And just before he pulled
the trigger, we stopped.

And I was insistent that we

get right to the edge because

I wanted to demonstrate to people

the finality of it,

that hopefully if someone else

was thinking about something like this,

that this might shock
them into seeking help.

- People in the media to me

tend to be a little
bit too self-righteous.

I'm doing this for the public good.

I'm exposing this, I'm.

Give me a break.

You're doing this to feed your own ego

and to see your name a light.

That's it.

- And here it should be noted
that several newspapers,

including the New York Daily News

and The Washington Post,

ran photographs taken
at the moment of impact.

- And of course you've seen the picture

with the gun and whoever, you know.

And like we're saying about the reporters,

I mean, the guy is close
enough to grab a snap

but, you know.

Oh, but it was so tragic.

I tried to save,

I should have jumped up.

Well, no, no, you had
your camera in your hand.

You were busy trying to get a Pulitzer.

- First of all, he had himself

blockaded and barricaded.
- That's right.

- Second of all,

he had some animosity toward the press.

I, I, sorry, I don't think that anybody

should be obligated to
try to approach somebody

brandishing a .357 Magnum

and wrestle a gun out of his hands.

- This was a big man.

This was a physically big, strong man.

- I knew

that he was going to kill himself.

The only question I had was

whether he was gonna kill
some of us beforehand.

Because he had,

in the course of this long statement,

been talking about how
the press had treated him

as just another piece of meat.

And you know, he had
six bullets in that gun.

He could have used five and
still had one for himself.

- There were some people
in the room who thought,

well, maybe he was
gonna shoot someone else

or something like that and just like,

I mean, I've seen it up to the point

where he takes the gun out

and I sincerely think,

and if you read the last
page of his press release,

he really thought, and granted,

it was an irrational thought at the time,

that he would be able to take the gun out

and then continue reading.

- When he pulled the gun out

and everybody got nervous,

and in reference in to R. B.'s concern

about whether he was gonna
take out the press corps,

pulled out the gun and he said,

"Stand back, this could hurt somebody."

Which was an indication to me

that he didn't want to hurt anybody else.

He had no intention of
causing anybody else any harm.

- Dear god.

Please, Paul, please.

That's enough.

That's enough.

- The reporters who were in the room

when my dad died are like,

oh, you know, what a shame.

You know, I can't believe
how I was affected

and how traumatic it was.

Boo-fucking-hoo.

This is what you brought on yourselves.

- If Budd Dwyer had

committed suicide yesterday,

licensed radio and television stations

would have done the same
exact thing, most of them,

today than what happened 20 years ago.

And it would be all over YouTube

and TMZ and everybody else.

- You know, it's like the
Kennedy assassination.

Everybody, you know, ad nauseum

watches the Zapruder film

with Kennedy's brain being blown off,

but they don't play the great nomination,

"The New Frontier" speech
where Kennedy talks about,

look, we're gonna build a fire

that can truly light the world

and we're gonna give people hope

or we're gonna descend
into a politic of greed

and we're gonna destroy ourselves,

which is what's happening now.

- I think we do have some culture that

glorifies anything that

is horrifying.

We can't control that.

- As much as I don't like the fact

that the video circulates,

circulates around the internet and stuff,

that it's that easy for people to watch,

on the other hand,

it will pique people's curiosity enough

that maybe they will
investigate a little bit.

The reason he did it how he did it was,

was to draw attention to it.

- Now, if he had quietly

taken some sleeping
pills or done something,

would there be any interest
in this whatsoever?

No, there wouldn't.

- He was hoping that it would lead,

it would attract attention
and lead to improvement,

but it only attracted
attention momentarily.

You know, the news of the day and then,

and then everyone passed on.

- And that's probably

the biggest travesty of the whole thing

is that what was actually
wanted to be said

has been lost in the act itself.

- The sun shown brightly

on the city of Meadville today

as hundreds of friends, relatives,

acquaintances, and
colleagues of Budd Dwyer's

filed into the Robert Waid Funeral Home

to pay their respects.

(bell tolling)
- Budd was an innocent man.

He was made to feel that he lost

everything he worked for.

- [Reporter] Among the people
who attended the service

were Senator Arlen Specter,

Lieutenant Governor Mark Singel,

and former Lieutenant
Governor William Scranton.

- Following the services,

Budd Dwyer will be laid to rest

at the Blooming Valley Cemetery.

(somber instrumental music)

- We did a service at the church

and then just the family was going out

to the cemetery with the casket and

on the way out, there were,

it was just lined with American flags,

like, stuck in snowbanks

and people standing on
the side of the road,

the whole route, from the church

all the way out to the cemetery.

It was just,

it was amazing.

(bells tolling)
(somber instrumental music)

- Those who laid him to rest today

remembered Dwyer as a man of honor.

- [Reporter] Dwyer was laid to rest

in a plot just outside Meadville

near his parents' graves.

(somber instrumental music)

- I think a lot of people,

a lot of survivors of
people who commit suicide,

blame themselves

either for not seeing it

or for not being able to prevent it.

I mean, like, something
as simple as the card

that I didn't give him that morning.

One of my initial things was

if I'd given him that card,

he wouldn't have gone through with it,

then he would have known
how much I loved him,

then he wouldn't have done it.

You know, it took a
while for me to realize

that, okay, that's,

that's not true.

I mean, he was, he knew what
he was gonna do, you know?

It's not my fault,

that I couldn't have
saved him by doing that.

- [Interviewer] Were you angry at him?

- Well, yes, I think

we always go through a period of anger.

That took a while too.

The question why, couldn't, why?

You know, we could have worked this out.

We could have done something.

You,

it's a normal feeling of anger.

But, you see, I understood
then why he did it

because he left, he left
three beautiful letters,

one for each of the
children and one for me.

- The one thing that kind of

broke my heart in the letter

was that he said, you're
fortunate because,

you know, you'll get married eventually

and be able to change your last name,

whereas Rob's stuck
with this last name now,

this mark.

- In a final letter, he said that our son,

who was going by the nickname Budd,

which was his middle name,

our mother's maiden name,
so it followed through,

he said, "You shouldn't use Budd anymore.

"You'd better go back to your own name."

- And I'm thinking, Dad,

I'm proud of this name, you know?

This is not a name I'm ever gonna change,

I'm proud of it, you know?

And,

which is why I still, I mean,

my business card, it's on,

you know, I'm very proud of it.

So it broke my heart that he thought

that I would be ashamed of that somehow.

- They say that when something happens,

you find out who your true friends are.

I found out.

You know, looking around this room,

if we had not followed
this course in life,

we probably would have
never met 90% of you

and what a void that would have left

in our entire lives.

Because now, you see,

we consider you not only friends,

but an extension of our family.

You're our political family.

So in reality, this is
a swearing in ceremony

of a family.

Budd and I and Rob and
Dee are immediate family

and all of you are extended family.

- A lot of her friends at the time

were political friends.

So it makes a difference because,

I mean, it just makes a
difference, obviously.

- There was a lot of people in Harrisburg

that were a little more than goosey

about being identified with him

even though they certainly were.

I mean, he was their friend.

But I had no reservation at all

of taking the lead on,

in that resolution

and being identified
with him as my friend.

- I mean, ever since my dad died,

it's kind of been

a little bit of a balancing act

because I mean, obviously,

I remember him and I remember him fondly,

but any memories of him are also of,

you know, the whole case and the,

you know, the press conference and things.

So it's hard.

- When I finally resigned,

it was because of

Budd Dwyer's suicide.

He was a dear friend of mine,

as honest as any man I met
in government in 30 years.

And I said,

I won't give the government
people one more day.

- I was in jail six months

and my wife moved another
guy into the house here.

And she filed for divorce,

we got a divorce and,

I didn't have custody of my son

for the first five years
I was out of prison.

- I mean, it changes how you
look at everything, you know?

I was always so trusting
and all of a sudden,

it's like, well, can you trust people?

I mean, look what happens
when you trust people

or when you believe that
something's gonna happen

the way it should.

- It wasn't worth it.

I should have never done it and I,

'til the day I die, I'll
regret that I did it.

- It's amazing that, at
that time, it could happen.

And today, nothing's changed.

It could happen again today.

- Well, I, you know,

I guess I can make a general statement

and say, well, gee, the
system made a mistake

and he was the object of it

and possibly he was.

But it would be that, if it was a mistake,

then look at it in that light

and not as an indictment on the system.

- I'll say this, in my own opinion,

I think he was not as guilty

as a lot of people alleged,

but he was not as innocent

as he personally believed he was.

- I got him into this and he's dead.

That bothers me every day.

- [Interviewer] So you believe to this day

in Budd's innocence?

- Oh, I have no doubt.

I've never had any doubt.

I am,

I think the majority of people

believe in Budd's innocence.

And anybody who knows him certainly does.

- 'Til the day I die,

I will never believe,

(sighs heavily)

that he was guilty of anything.

- My hope has always been

that before I die, I wanna see this

closed.

There is no closure.

There still is no closure.

(ice cracking)

(rain pattering)

(light wind blowing)

(somber instrumental music)

- In closing, I would like to read

a prayer for guidance in
office by Herman S. Garst.

"Dear Lord, the people have elected me

"to speak for them in things of state.

"To thee, I come for help.

"I shall be tempted by those
persons whose god is gain.

"May I be true to
commonwealth, self, and thee.

"Stand with me, Lord, each time I speak,

"when godless men would make
a mockery of righteousness.

"At voting time, touch thou my lips,

"for I would not bring
shame or fear to fellow men

"nor cast dishonor on thy name."

(somber instrumental music)