Family Fundamentals (2002) - full transcript

For my film 'Licensed to Kill, '

I met with murderers of gay men
to find out what lead them to

their crimes.

Some blamed it on their
Christian backgrounds,

and how they were brought up.

They explained how their
attitudes about homosexuality

were shaped by what they learned
from both Church leaders,

and parents.

Over the years, I've been
intrigued by family situations

where parents have a
history of actively opposing gay

rights, despite having gay kids themselves.



We should not recognize same sex marriage

because that is a significant
departure in public policy,

that's a significant departure
in what we define as a marriage,

and I think it degrades
from the sanctity of marriage.

I read about people
like Sonny and Cher's daughter,

Chasity, whose father served in Congress,

and fought against gay marriages...

and conservative activist, Phyllis Schlafy,

whose son came out as gay in 1992...

and Mary Cheney, daughter of
Vice President, Dick Cheney.

As I researched other families,
the Bible often came up as a

point of reference.

This reminded me of my
work on 'Licensed to Kill.'

So I decided to focus this film
on three stories that all have



one thing in common:

a conservative Christian
foundation that condemns

homosexuality.

I wanted to find out what
happens when parents believe

that their own kids represent
the very element that will lead

to the end of the human race.

This is the way they look right now.

- Susan and David?
- Uh-huh.

That's her son.

And he's gay?

Yeah.

Is that a whole other story?

Yeah.

Yeah, it sure is.

Gotta go.

Oh, this is my office.

My office is in shambles.

I gotta put something here.

Is this pretty much where
all your organizing happens?

Yeah, I answer e-mails
here, and I do write here.

Right now, I was looking for something,

so everything right now
is kind of tumbled around.

No, no, no.

That's Maxie, our new baby.

He is quite a little protector.

What kind of mail do you get?

I get letters from mothers and parents...

from all over the country.

Sometimes all over the world,
different places in the world.

They are hurt... and
angry, and upset,

asking for help as to what do they do,

how do they talk talk to their families?

What are you bringing me here?

Well, I just thought,
you might care to note that...

I'm not sure I can read it on camera.

What's it say?

"Award of Excellence presented
to Kathleen Bremner for

Outstanding Achievement
in the Field of Religion

in the year 1998,

presented to her by Vision
International University."

How this all came about?

Well, I have to go back and talk
about how I learned about Susan.

I received a phone call from my daughter.

I thought, "This is wonderful!

My daughter is calling me
to have a Valentine's lunch."

She seemed to be kind of flustered,

and she sat down and she said, "Well,

Mom, there's something I've
been meaning to tell you."

And I said, "What's that?"

And she said, "I'm a lesbian."

I said, "But Susan," I
said, "you're a Christian."

I start quoting the Bible, verses,

things that would come to my
head that absolutely made no

sense as to her situation.

But I said that, and she
said, "Well, I've got to go,

I've got go, and I... I can't really stay,"

and she got up and walked
off, and I sat there absolutely

stunned.

That's a picture of our wedding.

David's father, myself.

So you were once straight?

Well, I think I was always gay,

but tried to be straight.

Gave it the good old college try.

After the accidental death of her first

husband, Susan married a missionary,

and devoted her life to the
church in order to both follow

her Christian upbringing, and
to also suppress the lesbian

feelings she knew she always had.

She eventually divorced her second husband,

and took an interest in local politics.

Susan finally came out at age 39.

I was just at a point in
my life where I was sitting

having a beer one day, and I thought,

"You know, this is really...

almost an obligation of mine.

I'm silently being in the closet,

meeting with people, talking with people,

interacting with people that
influence public policy every

day, enact laws, etcetera."

I almost felt a responsibility to come out.

You ever think
of fighting... your mom?

Well, I never dreamed in
a million years I would be

fighting my mom.

You know, it did happen.

A certain fundamentalist
preacher starting bringing his

flock into Hillcrest in San Diego.

Although my mother wasn't
a member of that church,

I was hoping that maybe reaching
across that I could get her,

and some other of her Christian
friends to intercede because I

feared that there was
going to be some violence.

Hey, put this on film.

So we ended having a big fight.

It was something like "Why do
you always have to take up these

causes, these... these causes?

You know, stay away
from it, stay out of it."

Just plain hurt.

I hurt.

I can't... I blame myself.

I thought I was wrong.

What on Earth... the first things
that came into my head was

"Why?

What did I do?"

Then it was the feeling of hurt and pain

began to, um, develop into an anger.

When you learn that your son or
your daughter has gone into this

kind of behavior, the
first thing you think of is,

"I'm alone.

There's nobody else who
could possibly be going through

what I'm going through."

So through our meetings,
through my meetings,

I became healed by helping others.

I was blaming myself,
she was blaming herself,

I was blaming her, she was blaming me,

we were blaming the world,
we were blaming everything.

One day, I just fell to my
knees in the kitchen of our

house, and I asked the Lord to help me,

and I remember such a
burden being lifted off,

and that was the day I accepted the Lord,

and He basically said,
"You need to give it to me."

Amen

The concern that I have
about some of homosexuality,

as with a lot of addictions, is
that there's a community out

there that encourages it.

If they... if any one of
them try to drop out of it,

there's a whole bunch of people
that want to pull them back in.

It's very difficult for
them to leave if they want to

leave because where would they go?

Right.

So many churches turn
their door in their face,

or say "We don't
want you there."

I don't think there's
anything that bothers me more

than to see the picketers out there,

telling them they're gonna...
you know, that God hates them,

and it just... oh, I...

It's a lie!

One of the things that hurt me most is...

Nancy handling the whole thing
without telling me anything.

That because of her... of
him, she suffered so much.

The Holy Spirt has
helped me to transform my life

and not just for people with this...

with homosexual feelings
because I truly believe

that there is no such
thing as a homosexual,

there's just heterosexuals
with homosexual...

homosexual issues or identity problems.

Um, a Christian family has the Bible

to answer all their questions.

And they... you can't
misinterpret the Bible.

It is what it is...

even though some people have tried to.

You know they'll
take... some information,

some scripture, and just twist it around,

and change the words and make it come out...

you know, and try to make it
come out in a way that justifies

their feelings.

But they can't do that, you can't do that.

The Bible is and says that
homosexuality is a sin...

and it's wrong...

and it is not... it's
a destructive behavior,

it will not bring happiness...
it says that very clearly...

and it's just wrong.

So, you know, you can't...
you can't argue with that.

That just is the way it is.

What's this going-home event?

I am going to go home
to my grandma's wedding.

But it's the first time that I
am going home since I came out

to my parents, April of '99.

This is kind of a trial.

I guess it's just kind of
a test to see how it...

how it goes this weekend.

Just a quick trip with
a lot of distractions...

plenty of things to keep
occupied so that there's not an

opportunity for a lot of confrontation.

Let's pack.

Yes, let's pack.

I have to get my suitcase
out of the storage closet.

Before coming out to his parents,

Brett was ousted from the
U.S. Airforce because of the

military's policy on gay service members.

Although Brett received
an honorable discharge,

he lost his security clearance
and was stripped of all

veterans' benefits.

I'm trying to take some of
the stuff that my family sent

me for Christmas.

My mom sent me a couple of
ties, and a couple of shirts,

and... sometimes she
sends stuff for Halloween,

and...

But it doesn't...

I don't know, it doesn't
mean as much as it used to.

It's kind of hollow.

It feels hollow.

Oh... underwear.

This is going to be an
interesting aspect of the trip.

This is one of the things
that I've been mostly...

most worried about, actually.

As an adult in the Mormon religion,

you make certain commitments...

between you and God, and to
signify those commitments,

you wear, um, clothes that have been...

sanctified, holy clothes.

These aren't them... Spalding.

Being gay is supposed to
come with certain benefits.

My fashion sense is as straight as can be.

I have no fashion
sense or taste, I suppose.

Okay.

Ugh!

- I need a drink.
- What happened to you?

What happened?

Is this a psychological barrier to go in?

I'm sure it is; you know,
I was thinking about that.

Yeah?

Especially leaving my pants on
the shuttle after having to wait

for them at the dry cleaners
when the dry cleaners was 10

minutes late opening.

Easter Sunday, 1999.

"Dear Brett, I hope
things are better for you.

You should have received the
book I sent on Saturday by now.

The author says the
problem you think you have is a

conditioning, just like alcoholism,

stealing, drug addiction,
or any other transgression,

and that it can be reversed.

Satan can twist things and deceive you,

and Brett, you've got to
recognize that is what has

happened.

God doesn't make mistake, but
Satan would tell you otherwise.

Brett, the worst part of my experience,

personally and as a bishop,
is that of confessing.

We are sorry for past mistakes,
and we have all made them.

Now, we need to correct them and move on,

keeping eternal life as our goal.

I love you, Brett.

Dad."

Over the past two years,

Brett has received over
100 similar letters from his

family.

Only through these letters have
they discussed his sexuality.

The letters remain unanswered.

It's all about the big
picture and the next life.

They don't think that...

anything in this life matters except...

what we do to make sure that
we are in a good place in the

next life.

It's just a belief that they have,

and you can't argue with
that, so it's really hard to try

to...

change their point-of-view.

It's almost as hard as
changing my point-of-view.

You know?

It would be almost as hard for
them to accept me as it would

for me to be straight.

My feelings were really
hurt when I came out to them,

and they reacted.

And I know that a big part of...

my not talking to them
since then is my lack of

forgiveness.

And I know that I'm going
to have to forgive them...

in order for anything to ever change,

in order for our
relationship to get better.

And that's not very easy for me.

I'm still dealing with that.

You wanted to know
examples of Bob Dornan and I,

and what we did together, and
every one of these piles is a

different event or place in
the world that we went to.

I don't know if you can
see that well enough,

but he put a... this scarf on his head

and made like he was the Phantom
of the Opera or something,

but he was like, "" and want stalking

after me and the ambassador going, ","

you know, and he was this
wild-eyed congressman in Malta.

He's a fun guy and we're
talking about a total homophobe,

or am I just being too harsh?

Oh, well, there are a lot more
things in between there, too.

He's... you know, he's
a father, and an uncle,

and a congressman...
a former congressman...

and a talkshow host, and... and...

Did I say "husband?"

Friend, mentor,
policy-maker, and a bonafide,

100 percent, grade-A homophobe.

Sure.

But he's many things.

You know?

So homophobe is unfortunately one of them.

I firmly believe that we'll
win the support of many

Democrats and Independents,

and it will win, for our cause,
the great state of California,

and I will become... and when I do so,

I will become the next
President of the United States.

Thank you all.

Buttons galore.

Political buttons,
badges, mostly Republican,

but "Got Milk" with Monica.

Um, this was the hat I wore
for the Millennium March on

Washington in April of 2000.

That's my little cross.

All the colors, you'll notice,
are the rainbow colors as well.

I had the hat made.

Well, okay, it may be obvious to you,

but what's all this gay stuff
doing with all this Republican

stuff?

Hello, I'm a gay Republican.

So, this is the Austin 12.

What'd you say it is?

What's that word?

"Incongruous?"

- Uh...
- "Conflicting?"

Uh, no, I don't say
that, gay Democrats say that:

that it's conflicting, or oxymoronic,

or a contradiction in terms.

For 20 years, leaders in the gay community,

which are... aka, Democrat community,

have criticized gay Republicans.

You know?

Why?

They should... you should welcome
them into the fold and be glad

that they're fighting the
good fight within a homophobic

national political party.

There are people in this room
that hate the fact that I'm up

here.

They're saying "Why are you in
a party that doesn't want you?"

But where they're confused is
that they don't understand that

we need to be in a
party that doesn't want us

if we're going to have
any hope of changing it.

We change their attitudes
by being in their face.

Hey, hey, Brian!

I actually want today to
say something about you.

When?

Is it you or your money, which is it?

No, it's your good looks!

That's what I...

I never had an inkling that Brian was gay.

Uh, the joke at the
time is that, well, Brian,

you got a political career...
because that's how we knew him.

You know, eventually, he was
going to run for something.

"How about assembly, Brian?

How about senate, Brian?

How about city council?"

But when you're talking to
somebody about developing their

political career, we, as a
politician or political-minded

person, we want to develop a package.

"Brian!

You're getting on and you have no kids!

You don't have a wife!

You know, if you want X
number of more votes,

you get a wife!"

Well, Brian's an old friend of mine.

I've known Brian for more than 10 years.

Uh, when I first met Brian, I
think he had just started with

Bob Dornan or was working for Bob Dornan.

The relationship was almost akin to,

you know, father-son,
very close relationship.

Uh, and again, Bob's, I
consider, a friend of mine

too, and so...

you know, they had that
very, very close relationship,

they were philosophically in
sync, and, um, worked very

closely to, you know, further
what all of us refer to as

"the Conservative agenda."

We've seen a word created that's phony.

I have four years of Latin.

There's no such
word as "homophobia."

Phobia of man?

Homo?

If they mean "homosexual
phobia" or "decadence phobia,"

that would be more accurate,
but it's not a phobia.

It may be an aversion to seeing
the collapse of our society,

or as Billy Graham put it, "a
great nation on the brink of

self-destruction."

I shall be back with that theme soon.

I yield back the balance of my time.

I was working for Bob Dornan

and working the long hours
that I did for him as his Chief

of Staff.

Um, it gave me great cover.

Nancy Reagan at a White
House Christmas party

he and I went to, but that was
the first time that I saw Barney

Frank, and his partner,
um, and Gerry Studds

and his partner, those
two members of Congress,

with their partners at a
White House Christmas party.

Um, and of course, Dornan
commented on how disgusting he

thought that was, and as I
always did whenever he did,

I pretty much remained silent.

So, I was always complicit in silence.

In that sense, that
part of the mentorship...

ran afoul, but in other areas,
traveled all over the world,

learned stuff that you wouldn't
believe in foreign policy,

and defense policy, and... and history,

and how to deal with the news media,

and how to be a public official,
and when to fight and when not

to fight.

I mean, there's so many
things that I learned from him

that are... that were
positive influences on my life.

No one's perfect.

I'm not excusing anyone's homophobia,

um, but I realized I was also homophobic.

My church said it was wrong.

And everybody has their cross.

My cross was an attraction to men.

God gave it to me, and He
gave it to me to deal with

and to beat, and so that I
would be rewarded in Heaven.

That's what Catholics believe.

What is a father relationship?

A father relationship is so significant,

both to a daughter and to a son.

A girl is affirmed by her father

how feminine she is
by the way he treats her.

Second one is, um, if kids
find... and this is called "peer

pressure," and they can be so unkind.

You know that.

Everybody... we all have...

had things said to us
that, you know, they hurt.

And if a boy is told "You're
a sissy and you walk like a

girl and, uh, act like a girl,"
eventually, he's going to

believe it.

You know, "There's something wrong with me

and maybe, that's... that's what I am.

You know?

So, I'm gay."

And the third thing would be pornography.

Pornography is a terrible...

Oh, it's like a drug.

Number four is a very dysfunctional family.

And the last one: the influence
of the media today and the

influence of, uh...

things that the kids read.

It's an alternate, uh...
alternative behavior,

that type of thing, and when
you combine all those other four

things, connect it with that, you know,

there you go.

In Susan's case, how did
the molestation then be a part

of her lesbian's feelings,
and how does that translate?

How does it translate?

It comes from fear of men...

it comes from being violated as a child...

What else, you know?

She became heavily involved
with the gay-lesbian community.

We're not talking about ramming
a lifestyle down anybody's

throat, we're just simply
talking about basic human

rights.

It's an interesting thing
how a woman who has been

violated or raped, she
wants to become so powerful,

she wants to look like a man, she wants to,

um, be stronger than a man and
dare a man to even touch her or

talk to her.

You can just see it, you know?

They just...

Susan must know how you believe,

how you feel.
- Absolutely she does.

But you've never talked to her about this?

No.

Nope.

I have invited her to the conferences.

There is nothing to talk about.

She's involved in a lesbian relationship.

I can't do anything about it.

I couldn't change her mind.

I couldn't change her direction.

Even anything I give her... I've
sent her books and I've sent her

material, but there's no
point in talking to her.

How does that get reconciled?

Or does it?

Uh, let's see, how do I answer this?

Um...

I have to answer this in a way
that... let's think of a little

child.

I'm just going to say this because...

Here, you have a little child
about five years old who does

something that you know they shouldn't do.

But they go ahead and do it anyway.

And then that doesn't stop
you from loving that child,

from feeling... from wanting to, uh,

correct them or help them if you can,

you know, about something.

It doesn't stop you from loving her.

You still love that child, even
though you know they've been

naughty or wrong.

And you try again to
put that into an adult.

And an adult does something that
you know is going to hurt them.

It hurts you, but you can't stop them,

because they have their own free will.

She talks about the child molestation,

but she forgets the part that
had a more significant impact on

me as a child, and that was
that it was a very violent home.

This was a man who
beat my mother regularly.

My mother doesn't know her
daughter or her grandson.

She doesn't know either
one of us as people...

or what we're about.

And all of this is all about her,

it's not about us, you know?

It's what she wants and what she thinks.

These sort of groups that she's
gotten involved with and Exodus

also had a lot to do with her
playing out her own feelings of

guilt and responsibility somehow
or other for her daughter being

gay.

And if she truly believes this, then,

you know, I guess we're going
to just have agree to disagree

because no matter what she says,

she's still my mom.

You only have one.

I still love her.

I don't agree with her and I'm
so sorry that she's really the

one missing the boat, 'cause
she's missed out on 25 years of

having a really great
relationship with her daughter

because she put up the
barrier, she put up the walls.

Excuse me.

You see them out there?

Not, yet.

Yup, there's Kyle.

Oh my goodness, how they've changed.

Wow.

Brett's family
had agreed to be a part of this

documentary, but after one day of shooting,

they stopped.

I sat down with his
parents at their kitchen table,

and they said they would
reconsider if I made a film that

denounced homosexuality and
encouraged gay people to change

their sexual orientation.

I couldn't make that kind of promise.

Brett actually thinks that they
used the film as a way to get

him to come home and never
intended on being a part of it

anyway.

When we got to their house,
Brett's mom gave him a haircut

something she had always done
when Brett was living at home.

Does this all feel familiar?

Hm?

Does this feel familiar to you?

Mm-hm.

Good familiar or bad familiar?

It's good.

Yup, it's been a long time
since I've had my hair cut...

by Mom.

Brett's father cleaned up afterwards.

Hi, kitty, kitty.

Kitty, kitty, kitty.

Woof, woof, woof!

I remember building this barn.

Blue sky, clouds...

so pretty.

Brett's ancestors
were among the original Mormon

settlers of the region in the 1800s.

His family has since upheld a
leadership role in this insular,

religious community.

As a bishop, Brett's father is
the common judge and presiding

high priest of his ward.

That chicken never leaves the garden.

It stays there all day and all night.

It won't leave.

Looking back, I knew I was
gay since I was in first grade,

when I had a crush on
a best friend of mine.

When I was 12 or 13, I started...

preaching about it in church.

Homosexuality, you're in Hell.

You got to Hell, period.

That's it.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200...

no get-out-of-jai-free
card, just straight to Hell.

My father was the one that
dispensed the judgement for the

church and the punishment for it.

September 23rd, 1999.

"Dear Brett, I'm sitting on the deck.

It's about 6:30, 75 degrees.

The mountains are
beautiful with all the colors.

There are dozens of birds
in the trees all singing.

Mom's fixing supper.

If you were here, it'd be almost perfect.

I love you, Brett, and miss you a lot.

I'm sending a hug for your birthday.

Love, Dad."

Congratulations.

So glad I could be here.

Coming home reminds me of
what I used to have here.

And that hurts, so...

Seeing my grandma dance the
first dance is really moving.

The first dance of the
reception... you know,

the bride and groom... always
just reminds me that I can't

have it, that I won't have it.

I feel like a fly on the wall or a shadow.

The red light's flashing.

Is it supposed to be blinking?-.

Okay.

And the battery's on over here.

Does that mean anything?

You're being nosy here?

No, I'm trying to change the subject.

I don't think they'll be
playing much longer anyway.

I like to listen to them play.

Although Brian had
a loving relationship with his

birth parents, the Dornan's
always considered him an adopted

member of their family.

While working for Dornan in Washington,

Brian lived with his family
and called him by the family

nickname, "Poppy."

He continued to struggle with
his homosexuality and kept it a

secret.

God always knows what I'm doing,

so the religious side of it, He knows,

He knows every day what I'm
doing and He knows every day

what I'm thinking, and I'm going
to have to account for it one

day.

So, uh... so that side is
working on me pretty hard.

But the political side is the
part that I had to deal with

more on a daily basis.

Um, what happens if I get caught?

What does that do to me?

What does that do... what scandal
does that create for Dornan?

You're trying to escape from
yourself and you're trying to

escape from your own
feelings and you can't,

and you don't want to.

At some point, I said, "I don't want to.

Now how do I make it work?"

I was at home watching 'Crossfire, '

and it was the first time that
I saw Andrew Sullivan debate

Patrick Buchanan, and Andrew kept saying,

"Pat, you don't know
your Catholic history."

And when he did that, a
light bulb went off in my head,

and it was like, "Whoa, there
must be something here that I

don't know."

And is not Cardinal
Hickey right when he says

"homosexuality is a
not a moral lifestyle?"

I respectively disagree.

Is the Vatican
homophobic and bigoted as well?

In some aspects, yes, they are.

- Let me... let me ask...
- And I hope to God that

eventually they will change...

2.000 years
they've been this way...

Not for 2.000 years, actually.

For the last 600...
for 1.200 years,

they were quite tolerant of gay people.

It's only since they became...
in the period when they became

anti-Semitic and in the
period when they became...

Bigoted on other matters.

Well, learn you history, Pat.

- I know my history...
- Learn your Catholic history.

No, you don't, you just
don't know your history.

That was the first time I ever
heard anyone ever say that the

church had a tolerant
attitude toward homosexuality,

and, uh...

no one ever told me.

It's eight years ago and,

uh, and I just never knew until
I watched this show and heard

what... what, uh...

Andrew Sullivan said and saw
that Pat Buchanan was stumped.

And uh...

uh, it just made me go out and
buy books and read and find out

about my Catholic history
that I just took for granted,

what priests and nuns told me
my entire life going to Catholic

school or going to church
or mass or whatever that

homosexuality was wrong, only
to learn that that wasn't true.

And note that I will not use
the adjective "gay" because that

adjective... which used to mean happy,

mirthful, or cheerful... is
totally inappropriate when a

plague is sweeping across our
country that is killing hundreds

of thousands of homosexuals
before this plague has run its

course, and we don't know when
it's going to stop its course.

To use the word "gay" instead of
"sad" is an idiotic acquiescence

to a public relations ploy.

They changed the word
"homosexual"... a medical word

to "gay," a public relations thing,

just as they torture and
twist the whole vocabulary of

"gay-bashing,"
"homophobe," "discrimination,"

"intolerance," all around anal
and oral sex for college kids?!

Freshmen and sophomores?!

What idiocy is this?!

It has nothing to do with bigotry.

I matriculated at Jesuit
schools for seven years!

Loyola High and Loyola U in Los Angeles.

And I was taught carefully the
difference between a misdemeanor

a venial sin... and a mortal sin.

The time of the gentleman has expired.

30 seconds, Bill.

I'll give the gentleman just a minute.

A serious sin, a grievous offense!

Gentlemen, withhold, please.

We were scheduled to go to dinner.

His plans had changed,
which really screwed me up,

because all day I had a knot in
my stomach because I knew I was

gonna tell him.

I got into the car, drove, hit a red light,

and I... I was very
nervous, and I said to him,

"Poppy," I said, "you may
not be very happy about this."

And he says, "Well, what is it?"

And I said, um, "I want
you to know that I'm gay."

He looked at me and tears
were rolling down my eyes,

and he looked at me and he said,
"I've loved you like a son for

20 years.

Did you think that
would make a difference?"

And then he leaned over and
he kissed me on the cheek.

We were not going out to dinner;

he had that wrong.

We were meeting at a political
"Welcome Dornan home from the

Presidential trail" at
Buck Johnson's office.

And Brian came into the back
and I winked at him and he says,

"Hi... "and he calls me "Pop."

And he starts to sob, and he says,

"Poppy, I'm gay."

And he says, "Poppy, I...
I just had to tell you."

He said I gave him a big, sloppy wet kiss.

You see how these things get cheapened?

I kissed him on his sideburn, on his cheek,

and I said, "Brian, this isn't
going to change how I feel about

you."

And he said, "Poppy, you've said
a lot of cruel things about our

community."

I said, "Hey, Brian,
let's start off right here.

Don't use that word 'community.'

Does that include leather fetishists,

transgender people, pedophiles?

What is it included
in the community?"

I said, "Let's talk about you.

Did you try daily mass and communion?

What about Jesus here, Brian?"

Now, let me broaden it for my
Jewish and Muslim friends: God.

"What about that?"

But then, you're
going to go into Leviticus.

Can we go into a commercial?

I'll refrain from Romans
and Leviticus this morning.

Thank you.

Our guest, the former
congressman, Bob Dornan...

We're here to organize
the 2002 San Diego Christian

Conference on Trauma and Sexuality,

and that is such a long name.

But it does express
quite well what we're doing,

because we are dealing with
trauma in people's lives.

Now why are you personally here?

Me, personally?

I got into this, my son was
in the homosexual lifestyle,

and he had definitely had trauma.

I think I told you before
that he passed away from AIDS in

1994, and part of my healing, um,

has been to continue... it was
actually... I think it was after

he had died that I got involved
being on the executive

committee.

I very much believe in
redemption and that there is

redemption.

In a lot of different ways,
redemption comes into our lives

and, um...

part of working the conference
is redemption for my son,

for the loss of his life...

because if I can help somebody else...

be able to live, then
that's important to me.

Um...

which means I've come a long way...

because there was a day and time
I thought it would be really

nice if just all those gay
people would just all get AIDS

and die and it wouldn't be just my son.

They all deserved it.

And of course, I knew
that wasn't a good attitude.

But that was an honest feeling.

And it was okay at the time.

I've gotten over that.

I don't feel that way anymore.

So that's healing.

In February of 2001,

Kathleen's conference sponsored
a symposium to address and

prevent homosexuality in America's youth.

The event itself was organized
by the Focus on the Family

Group, which strongly
advocates that churches have a

responsibility to love the homosexual,

while clearly denouncing homosexuality.

Before you could get inside the conference,

attendees were greeted by
demonstrators: men and women who

belong to the gay movement.

It's this kind of oppression
that makes people hate

themselves.

It's kind of oppression
that makes people try and kill

themselves with drugs and alcohol.

Several hundred
people attended the conference.

Speakers talked about how
homosexuality is preventable and

treatable.

One of the presenters was Mike Hayley,

a former gay activist.

I'm married, I have a child, I've gone on,

my life is incredibly different
than I ever thought it could be.

Another speaker was Dr Joseph Nicolosi.

He claims to have successfully
converted hundreds of

homosexuals.

Heather Beberay is from the
Lesbian and Gay Men's Community

Center.

I think the point is there is
as many experiences as there are

people on this planet, and to
have one group of people saying

that their experience is
what everyone should have is

problematic and is not about
what this country is founded

upon.

Maria Velasquez, KFMB News 8.

Reinvent the human.

He makes the ultimate
reference to evidence,

and the other gentleman spoke
the evidence of his own life.

She made no reference to evidence.

It is her opinion as to what the
nation is founded upon in regard

for graciousness towards the
minorities and what have you.

And hers is a peculiar and
limited understanding of that.

I don't find her remarks
necessarily intellectually

persuasive.

Amen.

- Blessings upon you all.
- Thank you.

Thank you for your hospitality,
and we will clean up after

ourselves.

Okay, don't set any fires while I'm gone.

What are you giving me?

I'm giving you that
one that I was just printing

out.

And why are you wanting me to have it?

Because I want you... I
want you to read what,

uh, it said.

Oh, okay.

What's the essence of it?

Exactly that.

Exactly what?

Truth may prevail.

It's kind of exciting
when it, um... it ties in...

And that's the last page.

Here, I got it.

- Thank you.
- Okay.

Oop, see, that scares him.

Sit.

Good job, good job!

Yeah, one thing we did
talk about was really... was,

uh, David.

Come!

- And his situation...
- Uh-huh.

With your mom.

They were much better
friends than my mom and I are.

They have a lot of things
that they share in common,

and, uh, art...

in particular the art, and
it was my mom who really,

um, encouraged David and
supported David and financially

supported him in his pursuit of, uh,

his college career and his art career.

You know, there's gotta be
something to the genetic aspect

of this, and, uh, you know,
I'd love to know more about my

family and my roots from
a generation or two back

because...

I really do feel that it's a genetic thing,

you know?

Did you ever figure
he was gonna be a gay kid?

I kind of thought maybe so just
because of the person he is,

and I mean that in a positive way.

She's going to be mad.

Why?

You're calling her.

At least you're calling her.

Happy Mother's Day.

How are you?

Yeah?

What you doing?

Mm-hm.

Just curious what it was
like to call your grandmother.

Uh, I felt bad because I
normally would be there.

Actually...

the only reason I didn't go down... really,

the reason I didn't wanna go
down this weekend was because of

a letter that, um...

that I read about her
position on homosexuality,

so...

What was the letter about?

Um, it was a really
strongly-worded letter...

kind of condemning homosexuality as the,

uh...

the evil of society, you know?

Talking about how perverted and
sinful and how her group prays

for God to enter the minds of
their children to make them

realize what they're doing is wrong,

and I don't know, I kind of
thought we were passed that.

Yeah, it was kind of hurtful, I thought.

I thought it was unusual for her
to have you read that on Easter.

Yeah.

You know, uh...

She gave it to you?

Yeah.

Oh, you didn't just casually pick that up.

At the table when we were eating.

What do we have here?

We have a letter from San Diego Ministries.

David had a very negative
reaction to it over the phone

with me.

Well, no wonder he reacted the way he did.

Why is that?

-Well, that's a pretty tough
line: "These parents all have

one basic belief and that is
that this type of behavior is

considered deviant, unnatural,
and destructive to the human

race."

Well, she signs it "Sincerely
in Jesus the compassionate one,"

but that wasn't a very
compassionate-sounding letter.

My understanding of the New
Testament and Jesus' words of a

relationship with God is
constituted upon where you put

Jesus Christ in your life.

If you believe in Jesus Christ
as the Son of God and accept Him

as your savior, you have
a relationship with God.

And it's not my mother's
responsibility to monitor my

relationship with God, you know?

It's my responsibility.

It's her responsibility to treat me as,

uh... with love and compassion
and as a daughter and a member

of the family.

- But she does.
- And support.

I think she does.

Well, I think she does,
but there's always the "But."

You know, there's always that, um...

Could it be that she
just wants you to have a better

relationship with God?

A more... stronger one?

But who made her the God police?

My real concern about this is...

not so much whether my
mother believes it or not,

but um...

this kind of stuff going out
on the internet and across the

nation is what ultimately
leads people or gives people

permission to kill a Matthew Shepard.

Because when you put these
buzz words in of "deviant,"

I mean, this is the same type
of language that Hitler used in

World War II to excuse the
extermination of the Jewish

people, you know?

It's political language.

But, you know, if a group of
parents getting together and

venting, you know, helps them
through their anger and guilt,

then I guess, you know, there's
some need being met there,

but at what cost and,
you know, at what price?

No father, a mother who's a child herself

and who gets mixed up
with goodness-knows-what,

and this boy was brought up that way.

And he was just an absolute
closet case of falling into a...

a gay relationship.

Because what was he looking for?

A father, somebody... he's looking for love.

I'm lost in thought.

I'm trying to process all this.

I still believe in God.

That's how I was raised.

I just don't believe in churches
and I don't believe everything

that was written by men.

I don't... I sincerely
don't believe that the entire,

um...

scripture was inspired by God.

It's like we don't talk
about the real issues.

We avoid talking about them, but
she still is talking about them

in a public level.

So it's kind of like we're
avoiding talking about it,

but she's still talking about it.

Well, she had a stroke the last time you

discussed, uh, your homosexuality.

Right.

So, I mean, you're kind of like,

uh, in fear of jeopardizing her health,

I think.

No, she didn't have a stroke.

She got up upset and then she
had a stroke shortly thereafter.

All right, well, she
usually isn't that... don't you

get strokes after stressful situations?

Her health is fragile, and
that's part of why I don't push

issues...

'cause I don't want to her hurt.

I thought they did
accept me and David as... as a,

uh...

as a family.

I still think they do, though, in a way.

Um, you know, with me and my two kids,

you know, it was almost like
when they were praying for you

to be straight and have a family,

it's like their prayer was
answered by me coming along with

two kids.

I don't know about that.

You don't wear dresses.

And, uh, you know, it's like, uh,

I think sometimes God is
trying to tell them something,

they're just not listening.

Have you ever bought homo milk?

Did you even know homo milk existed?

No.

I didn't either until I went
into my local Ralph's and I saw

that Ralph's sells homo milk.

I thought that was so
hysterical that I actually had

to take it off the rack in the supermarket.

We were big milk-drinkers in
our household and still am,

and so, you know, it was
drinking all that homo milk all

my life that did it to me.

So, I guess, uh, let's see...

Okay.

I'm told that Brian
O'Leary Bennet is on the line.

Brian?

Um, no, it's not that line.

Okay, Brian, are you there?

- Yeah, Michael?
- Hi.

Hi, Michael.

Hi, Poppy.

Hi Brian, how you doing, pal?

I'm doing fine.

- I miss ya.
- I miss you too.

Did you promise, Congressman,

Brian here that you would
go easier on homosexuals now

subsequent to his
acknowledging that he's gay?

Let me actually tell
you what the exact quote was.

I said, "Poppy, you have
hurt people like me by saying...

calling us 'pedophiles, ' 'molesters, '

'predators' for a long time," and I said,

"It has hurt us and I
wish you would stop it."

I said, "Brian, you
know better than anybody on this

planet how the liberal-dominant
media culture spins me and takes

things out of context.

And we agreed to go
over it and talk about it.

No, actually, Poppy,
what you did say is that you

said you would, and then you said,

- "Maybe you can show me the way."
- That's right.

Maybe you can even
build a bridge to the gay and

lesbian community for me...

When somebody like me comes
out to him and turns upside-down

every stereotype that he's
created in his own mind,

someone he loves like a son,
traveled all over the world

with, did all these things
with, how could he possibly be a

homosexual?

Then, you sit down and you have
discussion after discussion,

which we did for the year and a
half after I came out before he

stopped talking to me.

I don't think he was willing to
take that leap to actually think

that he might have been
wrong all these years.

It was really hard for him, but
you could see he was trying to

understand, and that's why he said,

"Don't give up on me," and he kept saying,

"Don't give up on me."

How much he wants to acknowledge
that this has affected him

publicly, I don't think he
will, because he's a public man;

he's been a public man for 40 years,

so he'll be very circumspect in
how he would describe how this

all affects him.

It's... it's complicated
because you're not blood,

but it's... it's good complicated.

It's a good relationship.

If it were blood, do
you think it would have been any

different?

Yeah, yeah, I think... well, yeah,

certainly he wouldn't
have... I don't think he would be

disowning me right now.

Um...

I think he'd be struggling to
try to figure out a way to fix

me, but, um... but I don't
think he would be disowning me.

So, um... so there's
probably the clearest example.

I'm somebody else's problem.

Out of sight, out of mind.

He doesn't have to worry about
me coming home for Christmas or

Thanksgiving, even though I
spent years of Christmases and

Thanksgivings with him, so...

Decades of Christmases and Thanksgivings.

Congressman Dornan,
tell me how you feel about your

own chances this evening?

Excellent.

I predicted three weeks ago...

In 1996, Bob Dornan
lost his reelection bid in a

tight race against political
newcomer Loretta Sanchez.

He is currently featured
on his own talk radio show.

Brian is now a Vice President
at the Southern California

Edison Company.

He served on the 2001
Presidential transition team as

an openly-gay Republican.

Hi.

How are you?

Good.

Happy Valentine's Day.

Is Mom there?

I wanted to talk to you about, um,

this weekend and uh, whatnot.

Do you have two phones?

What do you think you're doing
if it's not having an adverse

effect?

Everything that you're saying
to me tonight is saying that...

You're saying that you
don't want to do this,

you don't want this to become public,

you don't want me to be who I am
because it might offend somebody

else or they might act
adversely or negatively...

and therefore, something's wrong
with me or I have something to

be ashamed of or guilty of, or
maybe you do and you're worried

about their opinion of you.

They were gay?

And all of a sudden, they were cured?

Hm, shock therapy and drugs.

You don't even have any idea.

That's it, I gotta go, I gotta go.

Goodbye.

I wanted to be accepted
in the Mormon church.

I wanted to be viewed as a good
person or a righteous person.

As somebody that was going to go to Heaven.

I don't want to be viewed as the outcast,

as the rebel.

What makes them think that my
faith is any less then their

faith?

What makes them think that they
can try any harder to make me

straight than I already did?

Anything that they can't refute...

is the Devil's work, because
they have their faith and their

belief, and they know what's right.

Heaven forbid they should
ever have to go through this.

Wow...

It's hard enough for me to deal with,

let alone thinking of somebody
else that I care about having to

deal with this...

because I don't think
they could survive it.

Wednesday, September 1st, 1999.

"Dearest son, Brett, how are you doing?

I've been wondering about your thumb.

Have you decided if you're
gonna have more surgery on it?

If you do, would you just send
us a quick e-mail and let us

know?

Your answering machine still isn't working.

I hope it's just broken and
not that you've turned it off

because you don't want to hear us anymore.

When we call you and your
machine comes on is the only

time we get to hear your voice.

I hope it's working again soon.

Love, Mom."

We're at Valerie and Felix Cardenas' home.

These are my dear friends from, uh...

Really, what brought us all
together was sort of a political

issue around development in... in Edgewater.

They've been like my
sort of extended family.

I've been here for most
of the major holidays.

This is a, uh... a changing community,

because when I grew up
here, it was an industrial,

um...

Well, actually, they called
it "Edgewater: where home and

industry blend."

Working-class, blue collar all the way.

Bars and banks and factories.

People need... people's
perspectives needs to be,

uh, challenged, because we're stuck,

you know?

In America in general, we're stuck,

we've stopped, we haven't grown,
and people are putting up too

many barriers.

And my brother's gay.

And I'm proud of it.

And I love him.

There's a danger here
that we're going to end up on

- this tape...
- Yes.

As sounding like a
bunch of religious bigots.

And we're getting into areas
that this group does not belong

- in.
- Right.

We are here to help and support parents,

and the political aspects
are individual and our own.

We're not here to determine
the morality of this country,

we do that through our voting box.

That's politics.

What we do spiritually in this
group is to show Jesus Christ's

love for each other and for our children.

Amen.

Good.

So, shut up.

Stop asking political questions!

And you can put that on tape!

They are very politically active.

Grandma is very politically active.

I mean, they do a lot for
candidates who support their

points-of-view.

So...

Who support their religious points-of-view.

I think they would... they would
try to make every law conform to

the Bible, and if anything was said... is,

uh... anything that they
think is a sin in the Bible,

they would want it outlawed.

Well, I'd like to think at
some point we can all get along.

But it would require them to
let go of some of their...

extreme hatred for homosexuals.

But they don't hate you.

They love you.

- They said so.
- Yeah...

Yeah, I still feel like,
uh... I feel like I'm hated.

Father, I thank You.

I thank You for my husband.

I thank You for all the blessings,

Father, that You bestow on us.

I thank You for Your grace
and Your love and Your mercy.

I, too, Father, ask for
comfort for my daughter,

peace for her heart, and that
You'll help her and lead her,

Father, in the ways
that You would have it go,

because the light, Father, that
You give will always be there

for her, and I just thank You for her.

Thank You for her life.

And I pray for her happiness
and her joy and knowing You and

knowing what is good for her and
what is right and the blessings,

Father, that will come from You.

I ask this in Jesus' name
and for Your sake, Lord.

- Amen.
- Amen.