Everybody's Game (2020) - full transcript

[man laughs]
Rugby, it's a dangerous sport though.

It's a lot harder than American football.

[woman] I know it's like a tackling sport
though, that's what I do know.

Where you tackle each other. [Laughs]

[man 2] I've seen way more people playing
it on the park in the last few years.

It definitely feels like it's
a sport that appeals to everyone.

[Beno Obano] I always feel like sport
has a way of bringing people together.

It brings people from just
different parts of the world.

Fortunately,
I've had the chance to play rugby

and I personally don't know what my
life would be like if I didn't play rugby.

It'd be vastly different.



[TV commentary]
That is monstrous! What a hit!

- Where that heck did that come from?
- Huge pass! That is sensational!

...Kick across the field,
some fabulous handling.

Stepping on the gas now,
heading for the corner.

Well finished!

Oh, lovely pass to Obano.
Obano explodes through that first tackle.

Up to five metres short.

This is Genge,
just charging into the opposition.

Yes, the try but what about the pass?

And Watson is on to it. Pure quality!

Anthony Watson!

- And he's still going. Oh, what a try!
- [whistle blows]

Itoje! Oh, my goodness!

Maro Itoje! From nowhere!



You have to say
they thoroughly deserve that.

Can he get there?

Heading for the corner. What a score!

- [crowd cheering wildly]
- Oh, my goodness me!

[rap music: "Of Course" by Headie One]

Rugby is not really a thing
for Nigerians in general.

Initially, rugby was very alien to me.

[Maro Itoje] From my birth to 11,

I had very little interest in rugby,
if any interest at all.

[Beno] I didn't really know how to play
rugby for the longest time, like.

[Maro] I didn't know the rules,
I didn't really know the game.

I was brought into school and told,
"This is what you're going to have to do

because you're a big boy."

[Beno] When I went to that first school,
it was sort of like,

"Give Beno the ball,
let Beno go and score a try."

That was it, that was it
from 11 to 16, essentially.

I didn't have a clue how to play.

I went to my second school and I had to
sort of learn how to play rugby there.

And I remember when I was 17,
it was like,

"Bens, you're supposed
to be the guy but, you know,

"you don't really know
how to play rugby!" [laughs]

So I spent that whole summer
like watching

South Africa/England.
I think that was the tour of 2012.

I think that's what happened.

And it's mad because JJ,
like, one of my best friends now,

that's where he got his debut,

and at the time, obviously,
I didn't know anything about rugby.

I had to learn what was good and
what you're supposed to do in rugby.

[shouting]

[crowd whopping and clapping]

It's a little bit weird that, like,
I didn't really know how to play rugby,

like, the intricacies and
the nuances of the game,

cos essentially that's the part
of the game now that I enjoy the most,

the tactics and the little bits
that people don't really understand.

Those parts I find the greatest part
of the game and it's weird, at the time,

I knew completely nothing about it.

I didn't really have a vision of rugby.
Obviously, it was all very new to me

and the school I was in was
first and foremost very academic,

so the reason why I was there
was academic.

Passed it doing great 11-plus exams
and I was there for studying.

So nobody in that school
had been an example

to go on and play professional
in that modern, modern day.

[music: "Wetin Day" by Odunsi]

[Maro] So I was born
and raised in North London.

Grew up in the earliest
parts of my life in Cricklewood,

then moved to Edgware
in the suburbs of North London.

My name is Maro Itoje.

England, Saracens and British
and Irish Lions rugby player.

I had to let them know, innit?
I had to let them know!

Sometimes they might be sleepy,
I had to let them know!

[laughter]

My parents are both Nigerian,
proudly Nigerian parents.

They have big, big values on respect,
culture, discipline, et cetera, et cetera,

so all of those types of things were
instilled on to myself and to my siblings.

Our parents gave us everything
we needed to do to succeed in life

and made sure we were grateful for it.

There was emphasis on, like, being
active and living a healthy lifestyle,

but in terms of us,
the push was for education.

It was to do well at school.

[Biyi Alo] Growing up,
I was pushed a lot academically.

My mum wanted the best for me,
me and my sister.

Growing up without a father in the house,
the emphasis was on educate yourself,

work as hard as you can
and you could do anything.

Hello. My name's Biyi Alo,
I'm a tight-head prop at Wasps RFC.

My early life - I was born in Paddington.

So I was born in West London,
grew up always in North West London

with me, my mum and my sister.

So moved around from like
Kingsbury to Edgware,

and, yeah, grew up in Edgware.

I used to play football up until I was 11,

playing every single day, after school,
during school, in your lunch breaks

and I sort of really loved it,
played for my primary schools

and then started playing on Saturday,
Sunday league and then

was looking to hopefully
take that quite seriously.

When I went to secondary school, I managed
to get into a good grammar school,

which was known for playing rugby in
the winter and then cricket in the summer,

so unfortunately my football
dreams had to stop there.

[Beno Obano] I was so certain
that I was going to be a footballer

and I just used to love football, like it
was ridiculous how much I loved football.

That was really my life.

[he laughs]

Yeah, what's going on?

I'm Beno Obano
and I'm a rugby player for Bath.

When I was really young,
I used to write to, like,

every football club in London,
pretty much.

I wrote to Charlton, to Tottenham,
to Crystal Palace, to Fulham.

Like, "Just bring me in," like.
"When I can play, just bring me in."

None of them replied apart from Fulham,
which is - shout Fulham for that.

And then, I went to a trial
after school, actually.

I must have been like eight years old
or something, eight, nine years old.

And I went to a trial in Brixton
at some astroturf

and I played a little bit and I thought I
balled out, I thought I really balled out.

And next thing I know,
there was like a voicemail,

like a couple of days later
saying, "Yeah."

"He just needs to lose a little bit
of weight, he's a bit big," like!

And that was, that was my
football dreams ended right there.

I played for Dulwich Hamlet,
which is a team near me,

and had a little Charlton trial later on
when I was probably about 13, 14,

and that didn't bang either,
so it was just tough luck, innit?

I was fortunate enough to get
sent to like a good Catholic school.

My mum's a Catholic and she really
wanted us to go to a Catholic school,

so she sent us to a school across the way
up in South West London.

We used to travel ages just to get there.

Everyone in the area thought it was
a bit weird that they were sending us

so far to go to school,
but obviously it worked out.

The greatest thing that
that school did for me,

although I'm not a big fan
of the school...

It played rugby, so it basically
turned me into a rugby player,

which I guess is sort of like
a family sport now, you can say, innit?

[Maro] Beno is my first cousin.

He was born three days
before myself, he's my senior.

There's a lot of similarity
between myself and Beno,

but there's also a lot of differences.

[Beno] Me and Maro were
brought up in London, I guess,

completely different sides of London.

He's from South London,
I'm from North London.

Similar household upbringings,
a little bit different, um,

in the sense of areas and
what we got up to and stuff.

[Maro] He's short and stocky.
I'm tall and handsome.

I can play basketball,
he can't play basketball.

At all stages we're...
we're very close.

So he's like, he's my cousin but
he's also like one of my closest friends.

[Beno] I was born at King's College
Hospital. Shout, Camberwell!

And then we lived in Peckham,
in Southampton Way,

when we were really young and then
we moved ten minutes down the road

to Lordship Lane and we just lived
off Lordship Lane in East Dulwich,

and that's where I grew up.

[music: "Shomo"
by DRB Lasgidi Feat. Olamide]

Yeah, I'm like a first gen Nigerian,
I guess.

Like, both my parents were born in Nigeria

and they came over here
and had me over here.

They didn't really follow rugby.
Like, they...

I think my mum was scared for me
to play rugby at the beginning.

I had to remind her, "I'm the biggest
man on the field, Mum, so it's alright!"

But, yeah, then they've
sort of grown to love rugby

and the maddest thing is that, like, now,

now they just love it, like,

and they scream as if they know
what they're talking about.

They have no clue, so...

But it's cool now, innit, like?
It's what we do.

I remember growing up
and looking at rugby players,

and I didn't necessarily see too many
rugby players that looked like me.

And I was drawn to the players such as...

like Ugo Monye, Topsy Ojo,
who kind of looked like me.

It wasn't anything that I'd seen
around me that I could say,

"Right, I want to be like that guy,"
or "I want to be like this guy."

It was more like, "I enjoy it, so take it
day by day, session by session

and what happens happens."

[men shouting, whistle blows]

[Maro] I probably didn't really think
about rugby as a potential career

up until the age of 16.

From 11 to 16, I was purely playing
because it was a cool thing to do,

because it was fun,
because I was meeting new people

having... socialising
in different circles.

Probably when I got to
the age of 16, where...

I started to know a few guys
in the years ahead of me

who were then getting contracts
and then becoming professional.

It dawned on me that this could be
a thing if I dedicate myself to it.

[Beno] I always think that like glory
is the hardest thing to attain in life.

Glory is essentially
an honourable achievement

and a lot of people go through life

without... a real
honourable achievement.

That's why I love sport and glory

because it gives you
that chance to achieve glory

and achieve something
that's very difficult to attain.

In the US, they use sport a lot
to change their current circumstances.

They use sport as a currency.

Whilst in the UK, we don't do it so much.

Well, we do in the sense of football
but, in general, we don't.

As like people from minority,
black backgrounds,

we don't usually use sport

as a way to change everybody's
circumstances around us

and I think we need to use sport
more as a means of social mobility.

Back home, so many people work hard

and there's a myth that hard work
equals success and wealth,

but, essentially,
you need a plan to work hard in.

People aren't aware
of the opportunities for them.

Therefore they can't even get a plan

to then work hard, if that makes sense.

They have to be aware of opportunities
in order to take those opportunities,

but they don't know
about those opportunities.

And I feel like rugby's
one of those opportunities

and that's why I feel like rugby
has a huge image problem.

That's why it's important to
have people like Genge in the sport

in order to change,
change that narrative.

[Ellis] No one knows that rugby was
a professional sport where I grew up.

Like fuck, literally, no one.

I'm Ellis Genge. I play for
Leicester Tigers and England Rugby.

[music: "On Deck" by Abra Cadabra]

So I was born in a place
called Knowle West in Bristol.

I grew up on Andover Road. It's just off
the roundabout, for anyone who knows it.

Yeah, it was a lively neighbourhood.
I don't really know how to describe it.

You'd have to live there
to sort of understand

the intricacies of the neighbourhood,
but, yeah, it was colourful.

My dad's white. He loves football.

So that was one side of my family

and then, on the other side,
my mum's mixed race.

A very small woman so it was
sort of a mix of backgrounds.

You wouldn't traditionally
put those two together.

Especially in the area and the sort of
like time period they got together.

Yeah, it was a bit weird growing up,
bit confused as to what was going on,

especially sort of
knocking about the area.

We didn't really go out much,
me and my sister.

We sort of just kicked about
in the back garden.

I guess Mum and Dad
were worried about what was...

what was going to happen if...
if we ventured too far.

It was quite a... quite a community
driven neighbourhood though.

It wasn't as if, like, we would have
got kidnapped or anything aspect,

but it was more so, it was just easier
to stay indoors and be safe and stuff.

Knowles, it was quite tough.
I went to Knowle Park Junior School.

There wasn't much minority in our school.
A few Asian kids.

But, yeah, I found myself sort of
like telling people that I was white

and that I'd just come off holiday
with a bit of a tan and stuff,

cos I could get away with it because
I'm obviously not that dark-skinned

and having a white sister
was much easier as well, so...

I was a bit young to be going
on sunbeds though.

Obviously, some people caught on.

Just silly little stuff,
like people calling me "Poo Boy".

There weren't that much
hard racism, to be honest.

It was more, I guess, just ignorance
of being so young and stuff,

and just teasing, but it's the culture
you're brought up with in Knowle.

Not many black families and stuff,
so, yeah, it was tough at the time,

but obviously I look
back on it now with a smile,

and it makes you
a bit stronger as a person.

My dad was always football orientated.

He used to take me to watch
Rovers now and then,

and, obviously, football violence
back then was quite prevalent,

so I sort of grew up around that.

He kept me far, far away
from all the fighting and stuff,

obviously, being like
six, seven years old.

Yeah, all I knew was football, really,
up until the age of about ten, I think.

Then someone took me to cricket.
I fucking hated cricket.

I tried boxing, karate,
tried everything, I think,

cos a lot of sports clubs,
a lot of youth centres where I live,

so I was never really deprived of sport.

It was just more so
something I could stick to

and then, eventually, yeah,
I sort of moulded into loving rugby.

[music: "Easy" by Razor and Filthy Gears]

I'd describe rugby as a really
fun sport first and foremost.

It's fun, it's enjoyable but
it's also very confrontational.

You've obviously got
the wider confrontation

between your team and another team and
then you've got the individual battles.

Yeah, rugby is an abrasive sport,
it's very physical.

It's a sport for all shapes and sizes.

Tall, slim, short and a little bit
rounder, rugby has the place for you.

[Biyi] It's easier than football,
you know what I mean?

Everybody can play, you can get
every type of person.

In football, me, 90 minutes,
finished, you know what I mean?

But I can play rugby, so
I think it's a lot more relatable sport

than people think, than people know.

What made me fall in love with it?
I don't know.

That sense of camaraderie and all that.

I guess it's quite
a team-orientated sport

and I don't want to say that
just for the clout cos...

it's not what I'm about but, yeah,
I just felt a part of something

and it was the first time
I really had that feeling.

The fundamental values
of rugby is based on respect.

Both teams,
like we spend 80 minutes

looking to cause damage on
one another but, after the game,

we shake hands and let bygones be bygones.

[Biyi] Rugby means a lot to me. I don't
know whether subconsciously or whatever,

because I didn't grow up with a dad,
I didn't grow up with a brother.

Maybe that's why I love it so much.
I just love being around the guys.

I love pushing each other.
I love the environment that it gives you,

even with some of the coaches.

I'd imagine that that's how a father
would be with their son, sort of thing.

So I see how they're willing to push,

how they show genuine love
in the environment

and everybody wants
the best out of each other.

And then there's the working hard aspect,
where you go to really dark places

with somebody that you see every single
day and then there's the enjoyment.

So you're out on nights out, then you're
seeing them happy with their families,

you're seeing them go through life
and you get to do that together.

So you get to experience
everything together and I think

that's something that
I've cherished a lot from rugby.

That's something
that I've not got anywhere else.

It's quite a macho sport,
you can't shy away from it.

It's very manly, so to speak.

So a lot of the values are how
you'd want to carry yourself as a man.

So you want to be strong, you want
to be caring, you want to be driven.

[Beno] I feel like adversity
reveals a man's true character

and in sport you're generally
provided with quite a bit of adversity

and in rugby, in particular, quite a lot.

So I just feel like you grow
as a person and as a character

when you play sport and you play rugby.

Essentially, you don't know
how you're going to respond

to a particular challenge until you're
immersed in that particular challenge.

Because I've seen many people falter

when they have been in that challenge,

whilst others have gone on to soar.

So that's why you have to be
put in those situations

to know how you're going to respond.

Whether, like, it's injury,
selection or criticism,

or the media or whatever,
I feel like there just comes a point

where you have to decide
who you're going to be.

Everyone always has a perception
of who they want to be,

but there comes a point
where you just have to do it

and that's what happens in rugby,

and that's one of the greatest things
I think it's done for me.

We live in a more sensitive era and my
generation's a little bit more sensitive

due to our parents' enabling.

Sort of epitomised by a counsel culture,
which essentially means

a lot of people now are
a lot more entitled to their feelings.

As a result of people being
more entitled to their feelings,

it puts us in a position where people
like to tell you about their feelings

and because of their feelings they want
the world to bend towards them.

Whilst in, like, high-stakes performing
and high-performance environments

that's just not the case, you just
have to get it done the way it's done.

No one cares about how you feel.

And I feel like, personally,
it develops resilience in an individual.

You build mental calluses and as a result
you become more mentally robust.

And that's one of the traits that I think
I've developed as my career's gone on.

[Maro] I think rugby, they're...
they're happy for you to, in general,

express yourself but within
the realms of the team environment

and, obviously,
if you come from a background

that is not similar to the rest,

then, obviously, the way you
express yourself can differ slightly.

All in all, it's quite accepting,

but there are times
when it's a little bit tricky.

[Beno] When you're young,
black and from London, I think -

you talk a little bit different and you
listen to a little bit different music -

it's like there's often a tendency
to see these kids as, like, brash.

When that's not the case,
it's just that's who they are.

Like, if you were to come
to their environment,

you'd probably be the odd one out,
do you know what I mean?

So it's just... it's a weird, weird thing
that goes on in this environment.

Oh, like, no doubt there's a rugby mould,
like, of course there is.

There's always a mould everywhere you go.

There's always rules
that you've got to abide by

and there's a law in this world,
like, it's just the way it is.

I feel like there was
definitely a history of,

you have to be a certain way
straight down the line, sort of vibe.

You do feel the pressure
to be a certain type of way

when you go into these environments.

The factors that people say that
you have to... that you have to be

has no direct correlation
between rugby.

It's just that it's not been
seen before, so it's like,

you're not necessarily strong enough
to hold onto your identity

when you come into
an environment like that.

You should be
and I'd love to have been,

but, naturally, you see guys
more successful than you,

bigger, stronger,
richer than you and you think,

"I'm not strong enough to just
be myself now in this situation."

[Anthony] It's almost like a perception -
until you've earned your stripes,

can you fully relax and be yourself?

And I do believe in the idea
that you have to earn your stripes

but I don't believe in the idea that
you have to be someone you're not.

I'm Anthony Watson,
Bath and England rugby player.

[camera beeps]

What am I going to say? Born in '94!

Oh, my God!

So I was born in Ashford.
My mum's Nigerian, my dad's English.

I've got an older brother who
was born three years before me

and he had lived in Nigeria
up until that point.

And then after I was born,
we moved back to Nigeria.

So I lived in a place
called Warri in Nigeria

till I was about two years old,
two and a half.

And then my little brother was born
and we moved back to England.

I feel like the game still is a bit
backwards in terms of perceptions

and stuff that they have
of people with colour.

It's very difficult,
it's not an easy situation because...

especially for, I feel, for the players
who come through of colour,

because I feel like
there's a level of bias there.

Or they don't get the benefit of the doubt
like players who aren't of colour,

you know, with certain attitudes or
with the way that they do certain things.

And it actually doesn't affect
how they play or how they train,

but they're almost on the back foot
before they've started,

because of how they've been perceived.

There's a complex history
but it's all a result of people's bias

and the portrayal of the
black athlete in the media.

[music: "Dust" by Kwaku Asante"]

I think people like us are 100%
breaking the mould of...

of the perception of a rugby player.

Breaking the mould doesn't necessarily
have to be seen as a negative thing.

I think it's extremely positive
because in the country that we're in,

in the world that we're in,
there's a lot of people like us

and if they don't see people like them
playing professional rugby,

achieving to some of the high standards
that the boys have achieved,

they're going to think that,
"I don't fit there."

I think representation matters,

but the lack of representation
isn't the main issue.

I feel like the main issue
is the perception of the sport.

The perception of the sport
is that it's considered an elitist sport.

But it's a weird thing because to start
playing rugby at a grass-roots level,

it's no more expensive
than to play football.

And it's not a country club,
like tennis or golf,

yet it's considered an elitist sport
and that's generally because

it's played in private schools
rather than in state schools.

So the overall issue is that it's
a perception thing not a cost thing.

I'd probably say rugby does
have a bit of a class problem still.

The main example I can think of
at the moment is the way that

Genge answered one of those
questions in the Six Nations.

I mean, before you get interviewed, yeah,

you'll have like your media officer
come up to you and say like,

"You can't say this, you can't do that.
We want to talk about this, not that."

I'm like, "Fuck me,
do you want to do the interview?"

Here's the moment you've been
waiting for, Ellis Genge.

[female interviewer] Yeah,
who's enjoying a beer. It's well deserved.

Yeah, he was drinking a beer, which is
not out of the ordinary for Genge at all.

I'm having a 330ml beer
after a game of rugby.

Like, I've just been battered
for however long.

People were saying how unprofessional
he was in the way that he answered.

- I don't know, I can't remember.
- [female interviewer laughs]

Although it was like 20 minutes ago.

Um... it's all a bit of a blur,
happens quite quickly, don't it?

He was fully just being himself.

You know, he spoke exactly
how he'd speak normally.

Like, you got a lot of sausages
saying things that

just come into their head
and like what are they on about?

I show a little bit of character
and I just get slandered for it.

For me that was just a big,
not a wake-up call,

but it was like alarm bells
in my head were going off, like.

I don't understand how people
can have such a problem with him

just answering a question how
he wanted to answer a question.

I mean like, we go out and win
in Scotland the way in that...

I was about to swear, sorry.
...in the rain, um...

and now everyone's singing our praises.

Whatever, innit?
Like, we're on to the next job

and I'm sure we'll have more critics.

And, yeah, it was good to get the win,
that's all I've got to say, to be honest.

[Anthony] There's a big void
in terms of the relationship

between the media in this country
and the players,

and I think it's like the chicken and the
egg, which one's going to come first?

Because the players aren't going to
open up and be themselves

round the media and then them go off
and write a crazy story about you.

And likewise, the media
aren't going to be, you know,

on board until you give them
something to write about.

Rugby has a perception of how
you should be and how you act.

Certain aspects of personality
have to be put to one side

and say, "Not today."
Like, don't show this part because

that's not going to help you
progress in your rugby career.

Fans and stuff aren't going to be
able to see the true people behind

some of their... their role models
and it's a bit sad, really.

The amount of players in rugby that
must feel that type of squash, I guess,

to fit the mould and not be themselves,
you know, it's not easy.

Music is huge for me.
I'm not making excuses saying,

"Oh, rugby means you can't do music."

But your first priority is,
"I've got to be a good rugby player."

You don't think I can bring
that sort of part of me over here.

You think, right,
I've got to impress these people

and I don't want them to think
I don't take this thing seriously.

So for a long time I neglected music.

I've always been passionate
about listening to music,

but I neglected my own music.

[piano plays]

So I was just nervous. I was like, "Oh,
I'm a rugby player! I'm in the front row.

I'm not meant to be this emotional guy

talking about how you feel
on an instrumental sort of thing."

But I definitely feel like it's changing
and ever since I started to release music,

it's surprised me how many people
have warmed to it, people that I thought

were straight down the line, rugby
players, not much more else about them.

They've sent me personal,
private messages.

They've come up to me, like,
"B, when's the new music?"

And to me, it's so refreshing
and it's almost like...

the rugby world was waiting
for people to show their personality.

It was waiting for people to show
themselves, just nobody ever did it.

Everybody was just like
looking left and right,

like, "Are we supposed to do this?"

It's definitely changing and it's
definitely got to a point where

your teammates want to know
more about you and it helps you

on the pitch
if you know the guy next to you.

My music doesn't jeopardise rugby but
I'm trying to grow exponentially in both.

It's that belief in yourself
that I always come back to.

You've got to belief in yourself
and be yourself.

Nothing's ever as bad as it seems.

You might think the whole world's
watching you, judging you,

but then you take that step
and then you realise that it wasn't,

it wasn't how it was, so I think
people are starting to realise

that you can be yourself
and not be a bad rugby player.

You can succeed
and still have more to you.

And I think everybody's
warming up to that idea.

The issue with rugby is
there's a lack of demand

and we have to ask ourselves
why is there a lack of demand?

It doesn't come from the product,
the product is good.

I feel like the lack of demand

comes from people
not knowing about the sport.

Or people from similar communities
to myself not knowing about the sport.

[Ellis] Rugby's always been
a sort of, like, a posh sport

and it's only been professional
for 20-odd years or so,

so it's not really developed
that much in, in that time period.

Obviously, the money's got bigger,
seems the market's got bigger and that,

but the actual brand of people that play
it has always been very, very similar.

I think rugby traditionally
has been an elitist sport.

If you look at the '90s, it's a sport
that mainly public schools played.

To get into to these public schools

you have to have a little bit
of money in your pocket

and that then puts a barrier to
a number of different communities,

different people
from different walks of life,

so it's not all-encompassing with that.

Just the way we're pictured
in general by the public.

I think it's very so much still
that chino wearing,

shirt and tie wanker,
sort of set-up, like.

Well, that's what... It's definitely
like that in Bristol anyway.

I just played for England.
I come back off the tour or whatever,

and people were like,
"So what do you do for a job then?"

I'm like, "I play rugby." "Yeah, yeah,
but what do you do during the week?"

"No, no, no, I play rugby."
"Yeah, you train on the evenings.

Fucking seven till nine, but what
do you do in the...?" "No, no, no."

That's what you do.
Like, it's actually your fucking job!

And I think as time has gone on
it has become better,

but I think we're still at a period
now that the best private schools

often have the best rugby teams
and a lot of those players

have gone on further to become
professional rugby players

and England players
and so on and so forth.

So I do think there is something in it
about, like, breaking down barriers

and making rugby increasingly more...

more open to more communities.

As I said, I do think we're
moving in a positive direction,

but I think more can be done to,
you know,

to make rugby more encompassing for...

Well, from my friends point of view,

they always say to me, "Rugby's a bit of
a posh sport, innit, Els? A posh sport?"

And I'm like, "Yeah, I mean it is,
but there's, like, there's..."

"Posh people are cool, man." Like,
some of my best mates are proper posh

and well off, like,
it don't make you a bad person.

[Beno] When I was 16, I was fortunate
enough to get a scholarship

and a bursary to a private school
to play rugby at Dulwich College.

People talk about private schools
negatively but for me, personally,

going to Dulwich was like one of the best
things that could have happened to me,

not only in a rugby sense but, like,
the people I met while I was at Dulwich.

I remember, like, I'd go
back into the barbershop

and everyone in the barbershop was happy.
The barbershop, my guy Buddy,

would shout and be like, "Him go there!"

In his accent and that, and be shouting
about the school I went to and that.

So everyone was just so happy
for me where I came from, like,

even my friends, like everyone from
the area was just so happy that

I could go to that school, so...

I don't know, like, there are... there are
negatives around the private school,

but I only had a positive experience
and I'm not trying to say, "Stop it,"

or only... I'm trying to say don't let
rugby only be played at private schools.

Let it be played everywhere else as well.

When I first arrived here,
it was sort of like, um...

Actually, on my first day, do you
remember? Did you help me out?

- Yes!
- [they all laugh]

- Bro.
- Me, you and Mira.

Yeah, bro, people were helping me out.
I was like, "Ah, this is nice."

That was the level before you came here.

I was like, "The people are nice here,
you know!" I was like, "OK!"

Even from, like, years before,
like, Year Eight times,

we were hearing about you.

- There was madness here one time.
- What did you do? Was it a game?

- Yeah.
- Yeah, I remember that.

After that, people were talking like
there was this...

an animal that
was just running through people.

- [laughter]
- An animal!

So you were real player
player from young?

- We're just trying to get it how we lived.
- [laughter]

- How we lived?
- Oh!

[Beno] So what memories did you men have?

I remember initially
it being a culture shock.

That's one thing
that sticks out in my mind.

Exactly, me and T joined at 11 years old,
so you can imagine coming from

Peckham, Camberwell straight
into Dulwich College was mad.

It was a big culture shock,
a very big culture shock.

You get a little bit of imposter syndrome
because...

- Most definitely.
- You know, you look around you,

and you don't really relate
to all the history

and all the, you know,
middle-class... wealth.

Cos you're not used to seeing yourself
in certain kind of environments.

Exactly.

[Beno] I sit there with entitled people
and I have this conversation,

and they're like, "Oh, but..." like,

"Could you, could people from,
like, your area not go and just..."

Just do well at school and then get
good jobs and work really hard

and then have a good job,
do you know what I mean?

And then have children?"
It doesn't work like that like.

- They don't understand the reality.
- Exactly, like...

They don't understand when they're born
in... when you're born in, like, Barnes,

and your parents went to private school
and then you go to a private school,

you're just following the status quo, big
man, you're not doing anything special.

Um... You're not changing things.

There's a certain amount of
information they're used to receiving.

- Exactly.
- Most definitely.

The difficulty level and friction that
you're coming across is so much lower.

Exactly, like, yeah.

You're doing something that
other people haven't done before.

And to do that,
people don't understand that,

like they can't fathom it because
they're in their bubble of privilege

and lack of understanding, really.

Being honest, it took me a while
to fully understand or to fully see that

there was a problem in rugby
in terms of people of colour,

or the class issue,

and it took me to getting to know

guys like Beno and Genge

and Sinck's problems and things
that they faced that I hadn't faced

because I went to a private school

and, you know, was pretty lucky
in terms of the way I grew up.

Speaking to them, you know,
it kind of opened my eyes up

and made me realise that, you know,
some things you kind of

do have to take a stand on
because it's bigger than just you.

That is important, not just for you
but for people coming through

and for the next generation
of rugby players to make sure that,

you know, some of things that -
not that we went through,

because I don't want
to make it sound like it was

a serious battle or anything
because it wasn't,

but for them to not feel constricted

and so that they can just...
the sport can be more open generally.

Rugby has a privileged history
and therefore

it's happened to just stay within
the communities of privileged people

and doesn't really come
into communities like mine.

But, fortunately, I was happy -
I just went to a school that played rugby,

so I was able to benefit from the sport

and continue to benefit from the sport,

but I just feel more people
should have that chance, essentially.

It is getting better slowly.

It's by no means perfect and
it's by no means where it should be

in this day and age, especially when you
look at other sports and stuff like that,

but it is improving.

If you look at the
2003 England Rugby team,

there was one person of colour
within that team, which was

Jason Robertson,
and a fantastic player he was.

If you look at the 2020
England Rugby team,

or 2019 England Rugby team,
there's, I don't know,

probably about the third of the team

who probably don't fit the description
of Anglo-Saxon or Caucasian.

And I think it's coming to a stage where

rugby is becoming a bit more
representative of the society

in which England is now today.

I feel rugby, as in its essence,

rugby in its simplest form,
is everybody's game.

The way rugby is portrayed

means that it's not everybody's game,
if that makes sense.

I still feel like people
can get pushed out

of the sport for acting in ways that...

are not consistent
with the... the rugby...

Not necessarily the rugby mould, but
also the rugby values and stuff, you know.

People get pushed out very easily and
once you've got a reputation in the sport,

I feel like it follows you everywhere.

You know, once you set you stall out, it
kind of sticks with you for a long time.

It's a tough one because you've got
to encourage players to be themselves

but again you've got to, you've got
to make sure that they're aware of

the repercussions of... of doing things
that are not consistent with rugby values,

or, you know, the culture behind rugby
so, you know, it's not an easy answer,

but I do think there's a lot of players
who've been pushed away from the game

that could have been, could have
been excellent in the sport,

or guys who are still in the sport
but could have been even better,

but the reputation that's preceded
them from not following rugby norms

has led to their downfall, type thing.

I think rugby is
a game which can be for all,

in terms of how rugby tries
to get across to certain communities.

I think it can do a much better job.

I think we're only scratching
the surface in terms of talent,

in terms of the communities
that rugby can really like get into

and make a bigger impact.

I think if rugby does that, then in
the long run it'll benefit the whole game

as they'll be better players,
more diverse players,

players from a whole range
of different backgrounds

and be more representative of the
Britain in which we live in today.

If there's like a more diverse group
of people playing rugby union, like,

I just struggle to see
where the loser is, like.

I just can't see who,
who fails in this situation,

I feel it's just beneficial for the game
and beneficial for the people that play.

So I just struggle to see the loser, bro.

Everybody is definitely
capable of playing rugby,

but whether people
know they like rugby or not

is based on whether
they've been exposed to it.

Community outreach programmes,
like, just getting into communities,

even where it might feel,
where it might feel uncomfortable,

where it might feel that rugby's
not wanted, it's just...

They don't have it, so it's alien to them

so I feel like into those schools,
into state schools in the boroughs.

You tap into a group of players
that you know potentially

hadn't seen rugby as an avenue.

By players being themselves
and, you know, being open, I guess,

to the public, you know, it kind of gives
kids from where they're from,

who potentially might have
had less opportunity,

someone to look up to and think,
"Oh, I can do that as well."

[Biyi] Whether there's just one little boy
sitting in a flat in North London saying,

"I want to be a rugby player. No one looks
like me. I could look like that guy."

So whether it's one, two, 10,000,

we are role-models and, whether
we believe it or know it or not,

there are people looking up to us,
there are people saying,

"Oh, that rugby guy, that guy that
plays rugby, that's kind of like me."

I see it in my posts.

People tag their cousins or little...
just young black boys playing rugby

and they say, "Oh, you play like that guy,
you play like that guy!"

And it's refreshing to see
and I just want to encourage that.

Yeah, I mean, look, if I can open up
the doors for other people to come in

and make a career for themselves
and if they actually know it's a career

by the time I've finished playing,
I think I'll be happy.

But there's still so much more to do
and I think the more we sort of

suppress people's personality
in rugby and let people

carry on the way they're going
with just being robots,

and that real bland sort of way
they get interviewed,

and the way they get like
sort of sold to the media.

I think it's just not portrayed in
the right way for working-class people

to come in and be a part of it.

[Biyi] There's already
situations and examples of

taking rugby down to grass-root levels

and how people with issues and
with anger issues or family struggles,

they've found solace in rugby and
they've been able to find an output,

a nice confrontational output
that doesn't get them in jail,

that doesn't get them hurt on the streets,
that doesn't affect their family,

and it's all purely positive
and you're growing as a person,

and as a player and you're
getting fitter and healthier,

and you're smiling more through rugby.

Rugby can be that vehicle to change
a lot of people's lives, I think,

and just not enough people
are exposed to it.

I'm not even thinking
just in this country, bro.

Like, rugby has the potential to be huge.

The potential is...

As in, we can't even fathom it
because we're not there yet.

This country could be the catalyst for it
because I think in other countries,

it also has a privileged history in which
only privileged people play rugby union.

I think there are plenty more people
who may even be more athletic than me,

more gifted than me,
who just aren't exposed to the sport

and I think if there was more exposure,

I think the results
would go through the roof.

And if you tap into that and other
people just play rugby union,

it doesn't pertain to your background,
to what sport you play,

then we're laughing, bro, we're laughing.

Like, we can't really know
what it's capable of, innit?

I think it will blow everyone's mind
the amount of kids who are driven,

who want to drive themselves to a sport,
who want to change their lives round,

who want to change their family's lives,
or even if they want to make good friends

and be good people. It could be a great
avenue, it could be a great sport.

I think literally
the whole country could love it.

Players continuing to be open
and trying to be themselves

wherever possible will help.

Guys like Genge and Beno
and Sinck have set out

a good start in my opinion to...

to encouraging people
of different backgrounds

to being themselves and to
being good role models for that.

The more success I've had
in the sport, like, it's sort of...

it's sort of helped raised awareness.

I don't want to sound like
a fucking cult hero but...

it's sort of helped raise awareness
in my area of rugby, in general.

Like my friends started following it
and they come to games and that.

They stand out like a sore thumb
in the box at Twickenham,

but it's been good for the area,
definitely.

Hopefully, more to come.

I mean, being honest, first and foremost,

you know, I want to be remembered
as someone who won things,

but I understand and appreciate the...

the importance of being more
than just a rugby player.

I'd like to be seen
as a player who, who gave,

who gave everything he
could to the sport obviously

and was himself alongside it.
I want to be seen as a good person.

What would I want to be remembered for?
I don't know. Um...

I guess I know when I hang up the boots.

Uh...

I just want people to...

I guess in a... in a time in rugby
where people aren't always themselves,

I guess I just want people
to be like, "Fucking hell, yeah!

That was Ellis Genge.
He was always himself.

That was the most raw,
organic version of him."

And if people think that,
then I'll be happy,

irrespective of
what I achieve in my career.

I just want to be remembered
as like a man of his word.

On that note,
I said I'd be a sick rugby player,

so we've kind of got to end
the interview here, innit?

So we got to get back to work now.

But, yeah, I just want to be remembered
as a man of my word.

Hopefully, by the time -
in ten years, 35, when I'm tired,

when I call it a day -
I'll be happy then, innit?

If in 15, 20 years I'm looking back

and I see the next crop of, like,
professional rugby players

or just people in general,

and, you know, they say that
I've had an impact on their life,

to live a certain way
or be better, I think,

that's job done as far as I'm concerned.

One, two, three.

[laughter]

This is like one of
the biggest lines that I say.

I was like, bro, if every man knew how
much money we can make from rugby,

I think everyone would have
taken it that bit more seriously

when we played it,
do you know what I mean?

Like, you'd have gone
to those academy days...

Do you know what I mean? You would
have taken it that bit more seriously

if you knew that big man like Bens
would have his own house right now.

- [laughter]
- Is that for real?

Innit? That's what I mean, innit?
That's just the facts, like.

There's a number of characters
from our own childhood

that we know played rugby that are
in compromised positions right now,

- that didn't have to be if they knew.
- And they were cold.

- And they were really good.
- They were cold.

They'd have just taken it more
seriously if they knew, bruv.

And some people might not know
but when everyone's doing something,

you just follow, like,
do you know what I mean?

If everyone's just doing it,
you'll just naturally follow

and continue doing it and then,
"Oh, look, innit? I'm playing rugby"!

That's basically what happened
to me, like, it sort of like...

I wasn't trying to play rugby,
I wasn't trying to be a rugby player.

And then all of a sudden
it's like, "Oh, here's a contract!"

And I'm like, "Oh, there's money!"

Like, to play rugby that I was doing
for free. "Oh, safe, innit?" Like...

"I could do this," you know what I mean?
"Oh, there's more?"

I remember that moment.

Us having that conversation
and you were like,

you felt so grateful and lucky
to get paid to play this game.

Yeah, bro!

- You couldn't believe it. I was there...
- Honestly, bruv!

Honestly, I'm getting paid to do
what people were paying to do,

do you know what I mean, like?

I'm getting paid to do what
people are paying to do.

- Now for real.
- You know what I mean. Like?

And I was like, boy, how many more
people could come and do this, bro?

Like, come on, let's bring
the whole ends through, bro!

Let's bring... Everyone, come!
Come join us, man.

Oh!

Uh, my name's Beno Obano.
I'm a superstar director, producer.

No, man, man, man!
It's no good. It's no good. Sorry!

I'm just not going to do it!

[music: "Shomo"
by DRB Lasgidi Feat. Olamide]

No, no, no, I'm not, no.

I'll do it. Just gonna stare at him.

Probably yes is the answer.

I've just... I've just completely
gone in a circle! Oh, my God!

[camera beeps]

Takes me ages, bro, I'm telling you.

Ah!

- Imagine.
- [camera beeps]

Ah, no way!

[camera beeps]

No, honestly,
that's noise pollution, bro, like.

People have to live, you know.

Which low point have I had in my career?

I don't know if I've got the answers to...
Oh, fuck, what was the question?

Sorry.

Cos that's the same thing for you!

We good to go?

That's a wrap, B.