El Crazy Che (2015) - full transcript

EL CRAZY CHE is a documentary about the most amazing case of industrial espionage: the unbelievable true life of an Argentine engineer who became a cold war spy. While he was working at AMD...

No one has to know.

No one in the entire fucking world.





Good morning, how are you?
It's Guillermo.

He called me on the phone...


...and said he was
going to pay me a visit.

-Where are you?
-At my brother's house.


I wanted to know if we could talk

on Tuesday or something like that.

We went to a restaurant where
there were just a few customers.

There were few people.

He said, "You know how I stopped
contacting you for years?

He was working
for the United States in Cuba.

And from Cuba...

for the United States."

I felt like it was all unreal.

To me it was completely unimaginable.

I said, "But,
why are you telling me this?"

And he said, "Because I have
some documentation

that I need you to... keep."

I had some small cassettes,

called VHS-C,
and I made copies with them.

I went to see my friend, Esteban,

and I talked to him about this.

And he got scared
because it was the first time

that he had heard about this.
He knew nothing about it.

I tried to avoid the situation.

"I want to bury them."

And he said, "Well, I know a good place,
in the Ezeiza forests."

I said, "Guillermo, I can only
give you ideas."

Here I have one of the two bins
that Guillermo filled...


...with stolen tapes
from the United States

and with letters, with everything,

and that's what
he was going to bury in Ezeiza.

Yeah, he said, "Let's go to Ezeiza,"

and so they went over there
with a useless shovel...


...that looked like a spoon
and got all bent up.

He said, "Do you have
a cap or something?"

We brought out several of them
and he took the red one.

That October day,
my car was parked somewhere

and someone stole my cassette player.

They broke the window
of the passenger's seat.

The... passenger's seat

was full of glass.

So in those conditions
I went to see Guillermo,

at 9:00 or 10:00 p.m.


And I met him at the corner
of San Pedrito and Juan Bautista Alberdi.

He was leaning against
the column with a backpack,

a cap on his head...

and a shovel.

When I saw him, I thought,
"What kind of costume is that?"

This is the Ricchieri highway,

it takes you to the Ezeiza airport.

They were going to the Ezeiza airport.

And in the forests on the sides...

They were talking about where
they were going to leave it.

In which forest.

They were driving slowly
and the police came up behind them.

They were following them

because they thought it was suspicious

that they were going so slow

on a highway where you have
to drive at 75 miles an hour.

And here, exactly in this place,

he asked me to stop the vehicle.

They said they were even more
surprised when the door opened

and Guillermo got out with the bins.

He came down out with
the shovels and everything.

And he says Esteban drove away

and he had to cross a bridge

to get back to the General Paz highway.

When I was getting to the bridge,

I was stopped by a police car.

-"You stopped the car and a man got out."

-"Do you know the man?"

"Well, you've been identified.
You can go on your way."

They went back and they saw Guillermo

with all this that he was burying.

Stop! Police!

At first they thought
he was burying his wife.

A piece of his wife.

When they opened it up
and asked him what it was

he said, "Family pictures,
stuff like that."

We stopped a suspect
trying to bury some bags.

Here in Ezeiza.

Red briefs.

A cap that says "Coca-Cola."

Credentials from a company called AMD,

the company Intel.

Photographs where you can see
a video camera

in what seems to be an oven.

Several diskettes.

A black leather appointment book
with a fake back cover.

Mini audio cassettes, several of them.

VHS-type cassettes.

A camping shovel.

A foreign magazine, "Time,"

with Fidel Castro's face on the cover.

At night, when he
didn't come back, I got scared.

We all got scared.

We thought it could be
one of two worse things:

That the Cubans had caught him

and put a bullet in his head.

Or that the CIA or FBI

had caught him and were taking him back.

And on the next day I told a friend,

"Sergio, you know,
this thing happened to me."

And he said,
"Don't tell me it was you."

"Ezeiza: An Argentine
Double Agent is Caught."

And he showed me this newspaper.

When I saw this, I couldn't believe it.

I read...

"Double agent."


They put me in a cell and
General Antonietti walked in.

I had always thought,

having seen spy movies and everything,

that these things only happened
in movies.

But in his case it's like...

he's an Argentine spy.

They asked me about Iran, about China.

They asked me about the Operation Condor.

They asked me about the attack on
the Argentine-Jewish Association,

about the bombing at the Israeli embassy.

And after all that they said,

"The CIA wants to talk to you.
Do you want to talk?"


But what surprised me the most

was that Guillermo called me
on the phone that night.

He said, "Esteban, didn't
I tell you I'd support you?

I'm calling you
from the street."

"Guillermo, you son of a bitch.

You can't imagine how worried I was.


Since they let him go two days later,

I thought, "They realized that he's insane

and they let him go."

High in the sky
A brave warrior eagle

Rises up

In triumphant flight

With one blue wing

The color of the sky

And one blue wing

The color of the sea.

I'm Guillermo Gaede's older brother.

Víctor was born first, then me,

then Guillermo and then Osvaldo.

The first letters of our names

spell "vago" in Spanish,
which means "bum."

We were born at home, in Western Lanús,

on Mendoza and Viamonte.

We lived there, in my case, since 1951,

Billy, 1952 and Osvaldo, 1954.

They were Peronists.

I mean... Dad always talked about

the good times under Hitler.

In my house, people had
a good opinion of Hitler.

My mom always criticized communism.

And then in 1959,

since things couldn't get
any worse in the country,

we went to the United States.

A year went by and we got
a letter from Immigration.

And it said, "You've been here for a year.

Do you want to become citizens?"

No, we had no interest.
We didn't answer.

The next year, we got a letter
in which they pressured us a bit more.

"You've been here for two years.

Have you actually thought
about becoming citizens?"

We didn't answer.

And each time they got more...

The fifth year they said something like,

"Why don't you want to become
American citizens?

What's the problem?"

Because, at that time,
the country was at war,

with Vietnam under Kennedy.

And if you were a citizen

they would take you straight over there.

So my dad said, "Look,
if you want, I'll go back."

So they said yes, there's no problem.

They took all the stuff we had,

and put it in a container
and sent us back to Argentina.

Everyone has to know that.

Billy started getting involved
in communism

when he was at Entel.
The estate telephone company.

I think I was 21.
I was working at Entel.

And one of my co-workers,
after talking to me so many times

had realized what my political leanings
were and one day he came up to me

and said, "Do you want to become
a member of the communist party?"

And I said, "Yes."

We were all more or less
of that ideology.

I honestly don't remember him ever...

expressing his political
ideas or positions.

Arise ye workers from your slumbers...

Well, he used to sing that.
He would play the guitar and sing that.

There we realized that he was going down
the wrong path, according to my parents.

Because my dad despised communists.

He was a Nazi supporter, not a communist.

I remember he was a guy,
with a really big, frank smile.

I mean, a good guy.

In my opinion, he was...
a transparent guy.


I was such a fanatic of the left,

of communism, and there was a program...

At that time I saw
a documentary about Cuba

and I was fascinated.


Here, in Sierra Maestra is where
Cuba's freedom was born.

From the Cuban swamp,

men and women set out to conquer

the most precious gift of mankind

writing a glorious page of heroism.

Today, Cuba has returned
to the group of free nations

and we pay homage to the patriots
that made this return possible

and primarily to Fidel Castro,

the legendary figure
of the tireless defender

who is responsible for the feat of
having removed from the continent

the stain of another dictatorship.

I said, "This is what we
have to do in Argentina.

This is the solution
for Argentina too."

And so I saw that and I got so excited

that I went to the Cuban Embassy

and told them I wanted to go to Cuba.

And I did all the paperwork,
I submitted my application,

and Cuba didn't accept me.

So I was a bit disappointed.

"Why didn't they accept me? I'm
a communist. I support Fidel Castro.

Why won't they take me there?
Why won't they accept me?"

I was a little surprised,
but not that disappointed.

I said, "Who knows
what the reason could be?"

He spent more time
working at home on his music

than at work, where he should be.

With what he earned, working six hours,

he said, "It's impossible
to live here in Argentina.

There's no future,
there's nothing here."

So he said, "I'm going back
to the USA."

And that was when
they made up their minds

to go to the United States.

We met on the phone.

First we were friends on the phone.


Long distance.

I was in Bogotá
and he was in Buenos Aires.

And we started to talk about things...

about everything, politics...

We would always talk
while we put our calls through.

What attracted me to him
was his spontaneity,

his intelligence,
he has always been really...

He likes... He's like a child.

He always likes to examine
everything closely.

Billy is a person
that likes to help people.

He's very modest in the sense that

he doesn't like to wear jewelry...

He doesn't care about that.

But he's the kind of person that
would give everything he has

to anyone.

If he has it and can give it away,
then he does it.

He's always been that way.

When I got to the United States

I could lie and say
that I have a Green Card,

because I had one
and I went with my Green Card.

But I didn't have
a social security number,

which was what I needed to work there.

So I had to work under fake names.

And at first I got a social security card

with a valid number, under
the name of Ricardo Monares.

What happened?

The first few weeks,
or the first month or year,

he would send letters saying,

"I make all this money here, etc.

I work 16 hours a day."

And I would say, "But Billy,

why wouldn't you work 16 hours
a day here in Argentina?

You used to work four hours,
get paid for six

and spent the rest of the time
playing the violin and the guitar."

I had parked my car
next to another guy's car

and I was talking to the American
and he said, "What do you do?"

And I said, "Electronics."

Because I had started
to study electronics.

"Where are you going?"

And I said, "I don't know,
I'm looking for work."

"You should go
to Silicon Valley."

"What's that?"

And he said, "The Silicon Valley.

There are lots of jobs
in electronics there."

And we bought the newspaper.

The newspaper was this thick.

And 90% of it were classified ads.

At that time there were a lot of jobs.

They organized what they called
an "open house."

All of the electronics companies

had entire pages in the newspaper.

One full page said "Open house."

They would interview
whoever wanted the job

and give him a job right there.

The first company
that interviewed me was...


I still didn't know
what an integrated circuit was.

I had no idea about any of that.

I was studying electronic components.

I was studying electricity in Illinois.

In the late 70s, Silicon Valley was...



There was... a lot of fascination
about what went on there

and how it progressed.

At one point,
Silicon Valley was in the middle

of the process of taking
technology to people's homes

at reasonable prices.


In that context
they must have taken people

of any kind as long as
they had some potential

and I think
that could've been Billy's case.


I was invisible.
They didn't know I was a foreigner.

No one suspected it.

I spoke English all the time
and no one suspected it.

So I had the perfect disguise.

I had already gotten a fake ID

that said I was born in Chicago.

I hadn't lost my socialist
ideals, you know?

So I came up with this crazy
idea of combining both things

and I thought, "One day
I'm going to go to the Cubans..."

They were my heroes.
Che Guevara, Fidel,

Cienfuegos, all those people
were my heroes.

I thought, "I'm going to meet them

to see if they understand
what I'm telling them,

if they like the idea
and if they would do it."

I didn't ask for money
or for a monument in my name.

I was contributing this unilaterally.

I was giving them something
without asking for anything in return.

So that eventually happened.

It took me a couple of years,
but I did it.

It was in December, 1983.

It was hot, I was on
vacation in Buenos Aires

and during that vacation

I decided I wanted to start
a relationship with the Cubans.


When he puts his mind to something

he doesn't listen to anyone.

He does whatever he wants.

I was on the line 15 bus

and I was thinking
about what I was going to say,

about how I was going to walk in.

I was improvising,

because I didn't know
what I was going to find.

I didn't have to ring.
There was a couple there

and I think I came from that side,
but I'm not sure.

So I got behind them
and when they walked in,

I walked in with them.


The doors opened, there was a woman there

and she asked us...

Hello, good afternoon.

-Hi, good afternoon.
-Yes, can I help you?

What time do you open?

We're closed now.
Can I help you?

But what time do you open?

-It says right there.
-Let's see...

-From 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m..
-Why are you filming there?

From 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.?

Why is the gentleman filming there?

It's an interview.

An interview outside the embassy?

Who is he interviewing?


-Yes, sir.

Yeah, I can't imagine
the Cuban consul's face

when Bill went to him
with high-tech information.

I remember that at the company
I worked for in 1986...

they paid 15,000 dollars for the first PC

and there were only two
in the whole bank.

"These poor people need help."

"Maybe I can help them
with electronics or something."

That's what he told me.

So we sat there and I told him right away

that I'm an Argentine
and I work in the United States

and that I came to give technology
to the Cuban government.

I tried to imagine
what he was thinking later on

and I thought,
"What must he have thought?"

He must have seen a blond guy there,
who looked like an American.

He must have thought I was there
for a business transaction.

That's what I thought.

-"What do you do in the USA?"
-"I'm an engineer."

-"And how much money do you make?"
-"I make 65,000 dollars a year."

"And he's blond, with blue eyes

and speaks English perfectly well...

and he has a family.

We don't believe him.

It's hard to believe
that someone in your position

would do this
for ideological reasons."

So I left. And I was sure
that they would contact me.

And I waited. And I waited
longer and longer...

A year and a half went by
and they never contacted me.

So I started over.

That time I went
to the Czchecoslovakian embassy,

which was in Washington.

We went to Washington on vacation

because I had lost a baby

and I was kind of depressed.

I told her, "We'll go on a trip.
We'll have a honeymoon."

And when we got to Washington,
I hadn't told her anything,

I said, "Now that I'm here,
I also came for another reason."

The section of Cuban government interests

was in the Czechoslovakian
embassy at that time.


I remember I stayed in the car.

I didn't go inside.
He went inside alone.

And I was really nervous.

So I opened the trunk
and took out all the material.

I rang the doorbell at the embassy.

And a Czechoslovakian man answered.

They saw that I was blond and
thought I was Czechoslovakian.

He started talking in his
language and I didn't understand.

So I said in English,

"I came to the section
of Cuban interests."

He was surprised, as if he was thinking:
"This blondie wants to see the Cubans?

What is he doing here?"

Well, I saw Álvaro

and started to explain
integrated circuits to him.

I gave him a small presentation.
I showed him some wafers

and the integrated circuit
and the guy looked at all that

and he liked it too,

but I thought it was going to be
like the other time.

I thought maybe later
he wouldn't do anything

about what I was proposing.

They said they'd get in touch with him.

I don't remember his exact words,

but I think he said
"He said they'll call me."

And I said to myself, "Good luck.
I hope they never call him."


One rainy night,

like a night in a detective story...

someone rang the doorbell,
and there was a guy there...

wearing glasses.
He looked like the singer Piero.

Are you Guillermo Gaede?

No one knew me as Guillermo.

No one knew me as Guillermo
in the United States.

And I thought,
"Who's this guy?"

And I thought it was from
Immigration. I don't know why.

They were the only people
who could call me Guillermo.

So to make time,
I didn't want to say yes or no,

I said, "And who are you?"

"I come on behalf
of the Cuban government."

The microelectronics industry
is essential

for... technological independence.


watches and tablets,
of course, elevators...

All of that is controlled
by a microprocessor.

This chip comes from this wafer

where I have integrated circuits.

How many? There are thousands
here in this wafer.

In industrial processes,

the hardest thing is to know
how something was made,

not so much the final product,
but how they made it.

Difficulties always arise

in the small details,

which is where
state-of-the-art technology,

which is always on the cutting edge,

fails in the industrialization process.

I take the circuit on paper

to a set of masks
and use photolithography

to transfer it to my substrate,
which is silicon.

It takes 25 or 35 masks

to make an integrated circuit

and the masks are very expensive.

They cost over a million dollars.

Two thirds of the value
of an integrated circuit

is in the design.

Maybe he was perfect for the role,

because people think spies

are like those you see in the movies.

And I would have never thought

that he would send
any information anywhere.

Let's say...
He looked like a naive person.

I mean, like...

He would have never made
a decision like that.

I said no, out of fear or something else,

I didn't want to get involved
in that mess.

As an engineer, I wasn't
responsible for the material.

So I had to go there
and say, "I need 25 wafers."

They generally came in packs of 25.

"Because I'm making
an experiment."

So what I did was take those
wafers and tell an operator:

"Can you put that image on this level?

I need this to study
particles or whatever."

And they did it for me.
They did all the work for me.

I would tell them on a card,
what I wanted them to do,

and they would do it, they'd return
the wafer to me and I'd have the image.

So I would give it to the Cubans.

So I had the information on how
to make each level, each mask.

In the 1980s and 90s,

Russia had started...
its technological decline

because of its economic problems.

Their resources were beginning to decline

and the United States' advantage

was that the issue was in private hands.

Private companies were competing
among themselves for the market

so that pushed them to develop
a technology

that was superior
to that of the Soviet state.

It was just a few years before
the fall of the Berlin Wall.

And things were starting to disintegrate

and all possible foreign help
was welcome.

I think the companies didn't even know.

What I had access to were the manuals

on how to make the machines

required to make integrated circuits.

They sell the machines to MDA.

MDA buys them
and they send MDA the manual,

because the technicians need
to fix it and maintain them.

The manuals always tell you
what you have to do

and what you don't have to do
because they damage the process.

And from that information
on what do to and what not to do

you can get important information.

Those manuals were possibly
public information.

The important thing
was to put those manuals

in the context of the process.

They could be useful,
but they require technicians

that know the process well.

For example, in my crazy head, I thought,

"If the Russians have access
to these machines,

they can improve
their machines."

Technologically, they were
ten years behind the American machines.

I don't know if you can see
all the dots there.

This is only one die

and some wafers had up to
one thousand dice per wafer.

So maybe the most important
thing that Bill gave them

were those small details
on how to make them.

The Cuban CIA, which would be
the SIDE here in Argentina,

made 20 passports for him.

And he came out of the room,

threw them on the table and said,
"Which one do you want me to use?"

This is one of...

You could call them low-tech devices

though they are very useful

and was given to me by the Cubans.

It's a folder
that can be taken apart easily.

At first sight
it seems like a regular folder.

What it allows you to do
is remove the screw,

very easily...

That's it...

I'm going to remove this screw.

The screw is out...

I take it...

and this part comes off.

And here there's a pocket
on both sides, one here...

and another one on this side...

and so you can put something,
like a wafer,

in this hole.

You put it back

and you could take the wafer
out of the company.

They were all fake passports,

all made by the Cuban agency

that had different pictures of him...

It was obvious that it was him.

Some were new, others old,
some more worn out than others,

stamped as if he had traveled

with those passports around the world...

He had all the passports ready.

He left with one and entered
another country with another one.

This jacket was made for me
by the Cubans.

It has a pocket here.

I would put something there,
close it with the Velcro

and this part would be
completely straight

and no one would suspect anything.

So I could put material here

and I could get through security.

It was a game to him.
It was really a game.

We've asked him many times,

"Now, at this age,
would you do it again?"

And he'd say "Yes."

So in February or March...
I think it was in March...

We traveled to Mexico.

I was supposed to travel alone,

but since my wife was involved

and in a way she knew everything,

she said, "I won't let you go alone

because they might kill you.
I'm going with you."

I was his bodyguard.

They agreed that it would
be better for the Cuban to go

near the border
and we would cross the border

and meet there.

Crossing the border was no
big deal on the Mexican side.

The problem was always getting back in.

Because since so many illegal
immigrants crossed the border

you had to give a certain image,
and the image of a family

was much better than the
image of just one person.

The trunk was full of material.

They were generally two boxes.

I had a good idea
of what they could need,

but there were two worlds,
the Soviet world,

which needed more advanced
technology, and the Cuban world,

which I knew didn't need...
such advanced technology.

I gave him the 286, the 386 and the 486.

Just telling them,

"You use these techniques
to deposit the film

and this is the equipment,

the list of inputs..."

That closes the gap quite a lot.

It saves a lot of time.

I think that, up until that point,
Fidel didn't know who I was.

He was aware that there was
a married couple there

that was helping the Cuban revolution

selflessly, not out of self interest,

and that the exchange
had had tangible results,

at least with the Russians,

so he said
"I should meet these people."

How did a married couple go
there and offer their services?

What were the characteristics

to determine whether or not
they were trustworthy?

The problem is that
the information he was giving

was so important

that when the Russian experts got it...

This was given to Saddam Hussein

to North Korea, to Germany...

There were a lot of people
behind that information.

In some cases it was sold,
so they confirmed

that it was information
that the Americans would not sacrifice,

especially not
from a private company like AMD.


The letter says "With regard
to the AMD information,

we are submitting to you a large package

that contains 2,526 documents,

with a total of 62,618 pages.

We were invited.
Those people invited us.

I didn't really feel like going.

"Fidel wants to meet you."

"Fidel wants to meet you."


I got there on December 31, 1989.

January 1 is the anniversary
of the revolution.

January 1, 1959 is when
Batista was overthrown by Fidel.

And it's the New Year that people
celebrate all over the world.

I thought, "They'll celebrate
the revolution.

It's going to be a big celebration.

Everyone will be dancing
candombe on the street."

And there was none of that.
A total funeral.

Everything was dark.
There were no lights, no music.

Nothing, nothing at all.

It was as if it were any other day.

I don't think this is what
they led others to believe.

It's a farce, a facade.

It's a farce.

It's not the socialism
you think it is, the humanist,

human-centered socialism.

Everyone gets by as best as they can.

So then you start to think
that it's no use.

-This is Cienfuegos....

This looks like it was burned down.

And I let the Cubans know

that I didn't like what I saw.

I didn't say it so directly.
I kind of said it jokingly.

But I let them know

that we didn't think it was
something worth fighting for.

And I think they realized that

and maybe that was why
Fidel Castro didn't meet with us.

And their Ministry of Interior,

their secret service,

decided to change their strategy
and use us for other purposes.

An incredible story.

They went to Cuba and I met
them, we worked together.

I showed them what Cuba was really like.

And they found out that they had
made a big mistake in their lives.

In your case, what made you
change your mind?

Because I saw, I discovered, Ninoska,

the criminal nature of the regime.

Starting to work
in the intelligence service

became a double-edged sword.

Because they can't censor
information there

and I started to discover
what the real revolution was.

I think I was 38 years old...
Yes, 38 and he was 28.

And he was a lieutenant of the
Cuban secret service, the G2.

The betrayal, to put it one way,

we'll call it "betrayal"
for argumentative reasons...

occurred two years later.

In 1992, we saw Pepe

and the government designated him again

as our chaperone.

And when these people
went to Cuba, I told them,

"You don't know what it's like.

I'm going to risk my life
to show it to you."

And since I had to organize

their itinerary in Cuba for 15 days,

they found out what Cuba was really like.

And I took them to see
the most unlikely places

of the old Havana,
where the brothels are,

the poor places,
where children have parasites.

I said, "Is this the socialism
you're defending?"

He took care of us,

because he knew us well

so they designated him.

Pepe was left alone with us.

And so Pepe took the opportunity
to tell us his views.

He said, "I've changed my mind.

I've switched
to the other side."

"You're working for a tyrant."

"You're crazy," he said.

"No, you're crazy
for sacrificing your family,

sacrificing your kids, a high level job,

where you make 100,000,
200,000 dollars a year,

as an executive,
sacrificing your future."

If I'm young,
and I'm thinking about leaving,

how could you sacrifice your entire life?

And thank God that man never betrayed me.

He did what I asked him to do.

And until that point,

he had served the "revolution."

I couldn't quit.

First of all, I couldn't do it.
You don't realize at first,

but when you get involved
in something like that,

the only way to get out of it
is by dying.

There's no other way.

Saying "I don't want to have
anything to do with this"?

What about all the information I gave?

I don't know if that can be covered up.

So they started telling him about the CIA

and that the CIA
could help to overthrow Castro

and Billy agreed right away.

So Pepe introduced us
to Rolando Sarraff Trujillo.

We met him for the first time.

But since they were friends
from high school, he said,

"He's a high school friend of mine.

One day we confessed to each other,

we trusted each other enough
to confess to each other

that we didn't agree
with what was going on in Cuba."

and they told my wife and me

that they would give us information.

And they gave us information.

But then they said,
"We want you to go to the CIA.

Go to the CIA
with this information."

To overthrow Fidel, I guess.

That was the idea.

And my wife almost killed me.

She said, "Don't even think about it.
You guys are insane.

We're not going to the CIA.
Forget about that.

They'll put us in jail
and ruin our lives."

And Pepe insisted and said,
"No, don't worry.

If you go to the CIA, they'll accept you

and they'll work with you."

Overthrow the government
to change all that.

Billy didn't agree with that anymore...

Not anymore.

The CIA would overlook

what we had done,

but the chance to penetrate

the Cuban intelligence service

was very valuable to them.

That's why he decided to go

and I didn't want to have
anything to do with that.

I said, "Now you really are
teaming up with the worst.

Now you really are."
I was so mad!

How could we do that?

It's like going to the police
and saying "I robbed the bank.

Put me in jail."

It was kind of like that.

An agent of theirs came out,

about 50 years old,

with his hand on his gun.

I slowly raised my hands.


And he came up to me and
checked if I had any weapons.

But he checked very superficially

and I was taking a big risk,
because I had a recorder on me.

I had a small recorder.

To him it was still a game.

The one who most suffered
was his wife with the kids.

He didn't.
To him it was fun.

I wanted to document it. I went inside
the CIA office with a recorder

because I wanted to document
the fact that I went to the CIA

and I also wanted to retain
any information

that came up in the conversation.

You can't retain everything.

I have a list
on the left-hand side.

It's the names of the agents
I snitched on.

And on the right are the names
I wasn't supposed to give out

until the US government
decided to work with us.

16 guys, 20 names or whatever.

I don't know who they are.

It's like saying "These are
they guys helping Fidel Castro."

It's as if it was an army,

and you're fighting
against that army. I don't care.

So there was a problem.

I was worried that one day
they would put me in jail.

"About your immunity, we've
had cases like this before.

It has to go to the D.A.

and the Department of Justice
has to get involved."

They told us a long story
and essentially said,

"We can't guarantee
you anything."

And that made us a bit nervous.

Because we thought,
"I told them everything...

I told them everything."

And they said,

"We'll see
if we give you immunity."

Two enemies.

I'm helping these people and
they won't guarantee anything

and now I can't get near Cuba
or I'll get shot.

So Billy realized...
that it wasn't working anymore.

And we decided to escape.


I cried, I cried that night,
because I said,

"How are we going to leave
all our stuff behind?"

And he said, "It doesn't matter,"

because Billy doesn't really
care about material things.

We were with all the kids

and we were on the road for eight months

with the FBI looking for us.



They knew that the FBI
was working with me

or that I was in touch with the FBI.

The FBI told AMD...

They told me this later,

they had no other choice but to tell AMD

that for years I had been
taking information from AMD,

sending it to Cuba and through
Cuba to the Soviet Bloc.

So AMD wanted to know where I was.

They wanted to talk directly to me,
without FBI intervention

and the FBI wouldn't tell them
where I was.

So AMD put up a wanted poster,

like in the Old West.

They put up a poster

at the semiconductor
association of California,

which was really big, really important.

And Intel belongs
to that association too.

I went from here to there
for several months,

from Texas to California and back.

While I was on the road
I took a recorder with me

with what is called
a "pickup cable."

I would go to the phone,
connect the pickup cable,

dial the number...

and the FBI would answer...


So I would talk and tape it.

Let's turn ourselves in.

Let's come out of hiding
and turn ourselves into the FBI.

And there was another problem.
They didn't believe us.

"What do you mean you don't believe us?

Didn't I give you
good information?"

"Very good."

"So what's the problem?"

"We believe you.
But we don't believe Pepe."

They ended up convincing me
that Pepe was lying.

That he was working for Fidel Castro.

I couldn't believe it.
It was a brutal blow.

I started crying.
I started crying that day.

I couldn't believe that this guy
that I was helping

had been deceiving me
for the past four years.

The Cuban Ministry of Interior used him

to send information to the CIA
through me.

The information that I was
giving them was very good,

except for a few details.

Some of the information was very bad

and the Cuban government

wanted the CIA
to believe that information.

It was a trap they had set up
for the CIA through me

and they were using
Pepe as a channel for that.

One of my goals was to get
revenge on those people.

I wanted revenge
and to find out the truth.

From what he told me,

at one point,
they turned their back on him

and tried to destroy him.

So he defended himself.

He didn't believe anyone
anymore, so he said,

"I'm going to start recording
these people" and he did.

I was always worried

about working with federal agencies

so I always took my precautions.

I filmed them, I recorded them
and took their fingerprints.

NOVEMBER 24, 1993

Billy is unbelievable.

How could he think of putting...?

I would see the camera
in the oven and laugh.

How did he come up with that?

He comes up with the strangest things...


The FBI now wanted to use us
in a counterespionage operation.

They wanted to intercept calls
or messengers from Cuba

who wanted to contact me.

In order to do it,
we had to give them something.

What was I going to give them if
I wasn't working for AMD anymore?

Intel was the first company

to produce integrated circuits,

a competitor of AMD.

So leaving AMD after having sent

all that technology to Cuba,

given it to the Soviet government

and now going to work for Intel
with the FBI's knowledge

was almost a crime,
but not for me, for the FBI.

I don't know.
These were important companies,

working with that level of technology

and the guys hired people

without even finding out
about their background

to know if they had been
identified as a spy,

like in his case.

It seems suspicious that they didn't
conduct a proper investigation,

but I don't know if at that time
there were many tools

and information available
to investigate someone.


What information could be given

that wouldn't be a concern?

That wouldn't affect Intel?

They asked me in writing.

I have it in writing.

He sent me a fax that said...

So the FBI gave him their blessing.

"Do this, take that, send that.

This is publicly known,
you can send it..."

But Intel didn't know
anything about this.

Intel had no idea what was going on.

So one day I took
what was called the run card

which is the list of necessary operations

to produce an integrated circuit.

So I took two pieces of paper
and I kept one.

I had the other one there.

And I said, "This is a run card.

It's Intel technology.

It's the C 6295."

And I let him pick it up
and touch it with his fingers.

So he touched it, looked at it
and said, "It's very good."

And at one point he left.
I think to the bathroom...

And then I switched it.

Because what I wanted were
his fingerprints on an Intel run card,

to show that they had touched
Intel technology.

So the Head of Security at Intel

was a former FBI agent named Steve Lund.

And Steve Lund saw the Wanted poster

that said that AMD
was looking for this guy

and he decided to investigate

to see if he could find him.

And Steve Lund finds out
that he was working

for Intel in Chandler, Arizona.

And he said, "This guy
is working for me now?"

AMD said something to them.

"Be careful with this guy,"
or something like that.

So the head of security at Intel
wanted to talk to him.

So what Steve Lund did
was contact the FBI.

"Yes, look, we're found Bill Gaede
who's working in Chandler."

And they said, "Yes, we know."

What could the FBI say?
"Yes, we know."

And the FBI contacted me right away.

They said, "Intel knows.
Don't say anything.

Tell them you're cooperating

with a counterespionage operation
by the FBI and you can't say anything."

So Billy said,
"This is not right either."

So I knew that
there was going to be trouble,

that the FBI was washing
its hands of the situation

so everything I had done
till then came in handy.

The finger prints, the filmed material,

the recordings really came in handy.

But now what was I going to do
with Intel?

If they fired me, it would be unfair,

because I hadn't done anything
against Intel until then.

"I'm going to cover myself just in case,

because something could happen

and I have to be sure, because
they won't give me guarantees

so I'm going to have
my own guarantee."

Part of my job was at the help desk

and I had to be available 24/7.

So they installed a computer at my house,

a telephone, everything.
I had all the devices.

That's what I call a modern slave.

If there was an issue
at 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m.

someone would call
and say, "Bill, help me."

So what I did from my house

was entering Intel's database
in Albuquerque.

And there I found the Pentium,
all the specifications.

Pentium is the most advanced
integrated circuit in the world.

At that time it was produced by Intel

and they had given me access
about one week before.

If I had downloaded them,

all of the alarms would've went off.

Intel security would've said,

"What are you doing?"

So I didn't do that. What I did
was display them on the screen

and film them with my camera.

My wife said I was crazy.
She would say, "What are you filming?"

And I would say, "Nothing,
I'm filming Intel's specifications."


I made three VHS cassettes

with all of Intel's technology.

That was very bold.

Remember he didn't have
a cell phone with a camera.

He set up a device to capture images,

he used his own resources

to avoid being investigated

by the company.

So they called me over.

They called me to fire me.

They took away my ID,

and said, "You're fired."

They didn't say
"You're suspended."

They fired me.

And so I said,
"They had no reason to fire me.

I'm going to get revenge."

And I said, "I'm going to give
this technology to the Chinese

and to Iran."


What's up? How are you?

He came to live at my house

and he never told us anything
about his life.

All we knew was that
he went to work and came back.

If you're gonna do it, it has to be
an enemy of the USA.


At one point, he told us

that he had gone to the embassies.

I stole technology that
was worth 20 million dollars.

If you have technology worth 20 million,

for how much would you sell it to China?

Anyone would say
"At least for one million,

half a million, for sure.

A hundred thousand dollars."

I went to those embassies

and sold it to each of them
for five thousand dollars.

I didn't intent to become
a millionaire with that.

My intention was mostly to get revenge.

My reasons were always ideological.

But I wasn't going to go
to the Iranian embassy and say:

"Now I'm a Muslim
and I'm doing this for Allah."

So he didn't give very many details.

At least once I realized
that he was lying.

He said he hadn't received
anything in exchange.

And he told Osvaldo that they
paid him 50 thousand dollars.

What? He never told me that,

And if he had told me that
and I had been here at the time,

he wouldn't have gone or else
he would've been in trouble.

The Iranians sent over
two different guys.

The Chinese one was always the same guy.

I guess he was an electronics engineer.

We communicated in English.

We would come here,
to Banchero, we would eat,

and I would show them...

I trained them
to use the material I was giving them.

They had three cassettes
containing Intel technology.

We mostly found out about everything

when they caught him at Ezeiza.

We stopped a suspect
trying to bury some bags.

Here in Ezeiza.

"Guillermo, you son of a bitch.

You can't imagine how worried I was.


When you see him, you realize
that he's not crazy.


We could have him tested
by a doctor and they would say,

"No, he's not lying" right away.

So it was hard to keep him in custody.

Because I didn't find him with anything.

He told me the whole story.

I had to try to figure out how plausible
his story was

and its relationship
with the things we confiscated,

the videos, the minichips,
the magazines, the clippings,

everything he had.


and they contacted the CIA in the States.

Two days later,
Billy showed up here, happy.

The police car had brought him here.

They brought him with all this stuff.

As if nothing had happened.

But he kept doing his thing,
because he said,

"Look, if people
from the SIDE come here..."

What Billy wanted was for them
to get out of the car.

Get out of the car,
ring the doorbell and wait.

Then he could film them
and he showed her how to do it

and then he would go out.

He said, "I have a recorder.

Where can I put it
to record what they tell me?"

I said, "That's easy.

I'll sew a pocket in your underwear.

And you'll handle it
when you're talking to them."

What's up? How are you?


Were you looking for the house?

Yeah, we had trouble with that.

You couldn't find it?

First we couldn't find it,

then we got a flat tire...

And on top of that...

-What's up? How's it going?

Let me introduce you...

What's up? How are you?
Nice to meet you.


-How are you?
-Fine, fine.

The people from the SIDE
took me from my brother's house

to the Hyatt Hotel on October 11.


No one has to find out.

No one in the entire world.

All I'm saying
is that if you tell anyone,

consider yourself behind bars.

We went to the backyard
and he was burning garbage in the grill.

And he cracked the grill,

the ceramic tiles came off.

He was burning documentation.

Because they were following me.

Obviously these people were following me.

The people from the SIDE
were with me at all times.

They made me nervous.

So I went to the US press.

I wanted to tell the press

because I was afraid that the
CIA would do something to me.

And I ended up going to the New York Times

and I talked to their representative

here in Buenos Aires, who is Calvin Sims.


He heard my whole story
but he didn't believe me.

I told Calvin Sims
that the Head of Intelligence

at Intel was going to come
to Buenos Aires

and he said, "The Head
if Intelligence at Intel

is coming to Buenos Aires?"
and I said, "Yes, exactly."

And he said, "Your story
is very hard to believe."

I suffer from the Cassandra syndrome.

No one believes me.

No matter what I say, no one believes me.

So I can't make people believe me.

All I can do is tell my side of the story
and let people believe whatever they want.

MAY 14




They published the article,
so the case became known

and I didn't notice anything anymore.

I thought I had covered myself
with that and that I was safe.

Don't you realize it's a game?
I told you so.

Why do you get involved in that stuff?

You made your bed, now lie in it.

He made a comment about that
at one point.

He said he was more scared of
the Cubans than the Americans,

because the Americans
would put him in jail at most.

"But the Cubans,"
he said, "will kill you."

He ultimately decided to go back there,

because they told him
they just wanted to talk to him

and clear things up and that they
wouldn't do anything to him,

that they would just
give him a slap on the wrist.

Even I was silly enough to believe it.

And I went straight to the United States.

I went straight into the lion's den.



They put me on trial.

This is what they said happened:

That I sent a package from Argentina

containing three cassettes to AMD.

That's the official version.

That was sent to them by the CIA.

If I'm going to ask them for money,

I'm not going to send them
the cassettes first

and then say,
"Send me the check."

And there was a press conference

because the first thing the FBI
said when I got arrested was,

"We don't know. We have
a guy here that we caught,

we investigated him
and found out he's a spy."

I already knew that
when the FBI went to trial

they deny everything
and say, "We don't know him."

That was what was going to happen.

They were going to deny knowing me.

But I had proof against them:

The recordings of the CIA
in Buenos Aires...

You can't deny a recording.

And I hadn't cashed the checks,

so I had their handwriting on it.

They'd give me dollar bills and
I wouldn't put them in the bank.

I would put them in a bag
with their fingerprints on them.

I had them on film,
I had a lot of material against them.

Since the D.A. knew this,

they not only wanted to put me in jail,

but the FBI agents as well.

The last thing they wanted
was to go to trial.

At that time, US law had no foresight...

We're talking about 1995 or 1996...

They had no foresight
when it came to intangible assets.

What happened was
that information was copied.

I can't steal information, I can copy it.

That's the right word.

We can steal tangible assets

and copy intangible assets.

More than one person can watch
the same TV show,

more than one person can read
the same book at the same time.

You can't do that
with a shoe, a chair or a house.

They were applying a law against
theft and there was no theft.

What I did was copy.

But they couldn't put me in jail

because it wasn't a criminal offense.

Until my case, that is.

Now it is a criminal offense.

"An Argentine stole
computer technology in the US

and sold it to Iran, Cuba and China.

From engineer to thief."

I think he got the chance
to do it because... he could,

because he wanted to
and the security regulations

were less strict.

After that, these companies now have
stricter security measures.

But thieves are very clever.

It really sounds incredible,
like something out of Get Smart.

Because I see Guillermo Gaede

in an environment of people like him...

Because it's also hard to imagine,

after having seen so many spy movies,

that Americans can be so...

I don't think he's learned anything.

If he gets the chance...

As they say
"Opportunity makes the thief."

If he gets the chance, he'll do it again.

They started an investigation
against my wife.

They threatened to put her in jail
and we reached an agreement

by which they would leave my wife alone

if I declared myself guilty.

And that was the agreement.




















He was writing a book
that he wanted to submit

to a producer in the United States

to make a movie out of it

and he wanted Harrison Ford to play him,

in the movie.

Yes, because it's incredible.


The story is like if someone said

that your dad
was on the moon or something.

It's hard to believe.

He was a spy and all other people's dads

are policemen or something normal

and he was a spy and now
he's a crazy physicist, so...

It's crazy...

So he's still doing that today,

that stuff with the rope.