DMT: The Spirit Molecule (2010) - full transcript

I saw this city in the deep deep
distance that was dark green

and all these lights flickering
and clouds flowing over it.

And this all started after
tremendous geometric patterns

that are incredibly rapid

You cannot describe it to anybody,
they are so fast

After those had slowed down
I saw this city in the deep distance.

So I was sort of watching that
and then this ball of light

goes right past me, right
in front of me, like

"What was that?" It didn't scare me
except it was so close.

After that I started looking around
and it's like you're in this place

and you're going "Why am I in this place?"



and then I noticed there is this
woman off to my right with a

real long nose, green skin

she was turning this dial
and I realized she was turning the

volume of lights up and down

on the city in the distance.

And as soon as I looked at her
she noticed I was watching her

and she said

"So, what else do you want?" I said
"What else do you have?"

"The Spirit Molecule"

This is the story of "DMT"
or dimethyltryptamine.

A simple compound found
throughout nature which has

profound effects on human consciousness.

One of the things besides what it does,
one of things about DMT that

always fascinated me was the fact that



it's such a simple molecule.

DMT stands for Dimethyltryptamine.
N-N-dimethyltryptamine.

If you actually look at the
ring structure of DMT itself

you only have really four positions
you can attach things to.

So, you can make diethyl or dipropyl,
there are some other types of

carbon chains you can attach to that end

that do give you compounds
that have activity, but

very different from DMT.

Biosynthetically it's two steps
from tryptophan.

Two trivial enzymatic steps from tryptophan.

Well, tryptophan is an
amino acid and it's everywhere.

So all organisms have tryptophan
and all organisms have

the two key enzymes that
lead to the synthesis of DMT

and these enzymes are very ancient
enzymes, they're all over the place,

they are, again, part of basic metabolism.

So, theoretically, anything
could synthesize DMT.

DMT is astonishingly widely available in

plants and animals all around the world

but so far nobody knows why
it's there! Or what its function is.

That is a 64 billion dollar question.

Why is DMT in our bodies? Why is it
in plants, all sorts of mammals?

What is the role it plays in humans?

The conventional wisdom 30,
40 years ago was that

these things had no real function
and they were just sort of

physiological noise. That's a very
na?ve understanding and

what we now understand is that
these secondary compounds are,

in a sense, the language of plants.

These are 'messenger' molecules.

This is what plants use to
mediate their relationships

with other organisms in the environment.

Why is it that human beings'
central nervous systems

are wired to receive this experience?

Must be, that there's important
information to be learned.

So I don't think it's universally
present in nature by accident.

It has a real function, we have
co-evolved with these plants.

There is a purpose in it and a meaning to it.

So it really fits in with the notion,
that DMT may be the common

molecular language.

Resonant language among all
living beings on this planet

and maybe others as well.

I can't think of a more powerful tool

to explore the whole question of:
What is consciousness?

These substances are tools that can be used

to expand awareness in all areas of life and

apply that expanded awareness
for the betterment

of people's lives, communities
and families and all society.

The good news is that there is a
growing number of westerners and

actually intellectuals, scientists, artists,

movers and shakers, filmmakers and so on

who realize that this
stuff is all too interesting

just to go on keeping it swept under the rug.

And meanwhile, the Inquisition
was a long time ago

the birth of rationalism was a long time ago

At this point there is no good
reason, apart from bad habit

to keep up these barriers.

With the help of two concepts,
that are traditionally opposed:

Science and spirituality

we humbly re-introduce psychedelics
back into the cultural dialogue.

DMT - the spirit molecule, you know,
it's a conundrum, it's a paradox.

The spirit is the inner world, the
molecule is the external world.

So the psychedelics are entheogens,

take us from the science to the spirit.

I was drawn to the pineal gland,
which is a very small organ

in the center of the brain, which
has always been an object of interest

and even veneration for a lot of esoteric
physiological disciplines.

I thought, it wasn't totally crazy to presume a

pineal site of origin of DMT,

which fit in nicely with my
theory that the pineal was somehow

involved in naturally
occurring mystical states.

This hypothesis proposes that the
pineal gland, in certain times, when it's

under specific stress stimulation, it releases
a significant amount of this hormone, DMT.

And it's that hormone that facilitates the
entering and exiting of the soul in the body.

This is what the Jewish sage
mystics have been describing

in a coded language for
literally thousands of years.

Through meditation, through fasting,
chanting, any number of techniques

there might be a burst of endogenous DMT

that correlated with mystical
and near-death experiences.

I had this theory that there is a big
similarity between psychedelics and

experiences that were possible
with a lot of meditation.

And that was one of the original findings that
led me to start looking for a "spirit molecule."

For a compound in the brain
that elicited mystical experience.

I think there may be a role for DMT
in explaining any number of

hallucinatory phenomena that man
has experienced throughout his history.

Creativity, imagination, dream states,

changes that occur due to isolation,

trauma, starvation, all of which
produce hallucinatory phenomena.

These hallucinatory phenomena are explainable

by the presence of compounds
known to produce hallucinations.

And the only compounds we
know are capable of doing this

are the class of compounds
knows as hallucinogens.

When thinking about spiritual states,

I think endogenous hallucinogenic
compounds and molecules

that the brain can potentially release

are probably very relevant
to this topic because

on one hand, they may
really help us to elucidate

what is the neurochemical mechanism
of these experiences.

if we can say that there is a release of endogenous
opiates or we can say that there's a release

of dopamine or something like that

and we can measure that release and we can see
where in the brain those different molecules go.

What receptors they activate or deactivate.

And hence we can learn really a lot
more about what these experiences are

because it can really allow us to
match up these experiences

that people have with hallucinogens

as well as understanding where they are
related in the context of the brain's receptors

and the different parts of the brain that
may or may not become active.

One of the other interesting things
about the pharmacology of DMT

is that it is actively transported
into the brain,

and so you have to wonder about the role of
DMT in just every day normal perceptual activity.

Too much DMT and things become
very psychedelic or

not enough DMT and the brain can
make things dull and flat and gray.

There's something that, for me, makes sense
about DMT. You called it the "spirit molecule"

It might almost be called
the "reality molecule"

Philosophically, it makes sense that something
that would be so fundamental to

the way we perceive reality, would be
imbued out there in reality.

There was a sense around it
that there was something special.

That it wasn't like anything else.
That it wasn't like other psychedelics.

Its intensity and speed was such that it really
produced a different kind of response.

I mean, I remember almost getting the sense that
it was kind of like a psychedelic bungee jump.

That there was a kind of raw leap into
this rapidly changing environment

that was very different from the more
gradual approaches of other psychedelics.

Smoking DMT is sort of like the
drive-by shooting of psychedelics.

You're in one place, BANG, you're in another
place and then BANG, you're back down.

So it doesn't leave a whole lot of
room for that narrative of

"Who am I?" "What am I doing here?"
"Why am I in this space?" "What am I learning?"

It's almost like there was too much information
to process in that few minutes' span

to integrate once you're dropped back down.

Dimethyltryptamine, when administered,
has a very rapid onset

and a very short duration of action.

This is because it is very rapidly broken
down by the body so that it can be cleared.

DMT is rapidly degraded by an enzyme in
the liver called monoamine oxidase (MAO).

That is the reason why is not active
when you take it by mouth.

Whereas psilocybin

when you take it by mouth, it is not broken down
by monoamine oxidase very quickly at all

so it gets through the liver and passes on
into the bloodstream and into the brain.

Yeah, I'm very interested in Ayahuasca.

When I begun my studies in the early 1990's,

Ayahuasca was just starting to make inroads into the West.

But it has obviously become a lot
more popular in the last 10, 15 years.

And the visionary ingredient
in Ayahuasca is DMT.

Through some amazing feed of
preliterate chemistry, the Amazonian natives

stumbled upon or combined, whatever.
I don't know how they did it but they

found that one plant contains DMT
and one plant contains an enzyme inhibitor.

Combine them and you can drink DMT
and it's orally active.

So it starts working in half an hour,
lasts 3 or 4 hours

and you can maneuver a lot more comfortably

within that state than you can when
you're just smoking it injecting it.

Orally active Ayahuasca tends to pick you up
and gently carry you into the space and hug you

and embrace you and clean you and

show you all sorts of mystical visions and
then it very gently brings you back down

like you're floating on a feather
back to the ground.

As valuable as my DMT experiences have been, I

feel there is lot more enduring
value, really, in this folk technology

which stretches it out and
makes it a navigable space.

Our whole western, European-derived
tradition of distilling alcohols and

isolating chemicals and making
everything stronger

and taking it out of nature and putting
it into the biggest punch that we can.

I do not think that, generally,
that's the most useful way.

I think there's a reason that cultures have
learned to turn a 5 minute experience

into a 5 hour experience.

It seems to me that Ayahuasca has
had a plan and that it's reached out

into the world and brought DMT
into many many thousands of lives

much bigger canvas than it had reached for
the last ten thousand or however many years,

and it has done very rapidly, and it
has done with form to go with it.

Ayahuasca is much harder

for the power structures that we have now,
it's much harder for them to put down

because it has been part of a legitimate
religious and spiritual practice

for thousands of years, certainly in the Amazon.

And we can't just dismiss all that as primitive
mumbo-jumbo and superstition.

We have to get to grips with
that on its own terms.

I think there is a growing number
of people who feel this desire

to get back in touch with nature

with plants, with animals and who know

that through the shamanic path,
there is way of doing this and that

actually these tools, these psychoactive tools,
plants like Ayahuasca is a very

direct way of doing this.

Now, it may not be everybody's
cup of tea and I think

a lot of people are actually, with
reason, afraid of it.

I think like a lot of people in my generation

I first heard about DMT through Terence McKenna

it was a very funny way to become
aware of such a powerful and interesting

and anthropologically rich topic
as a compound like DMT because

it really became more, it was more of a concept

then something that people
were necessarily taking.

The DMT flash makes it clear that
disembodied consciousness is a possibility.

I that think the whole tension
of history and the tension

of life seems to be about
the shedding of the body.

Terence was very ... he was a good promoter.

Basically he said it's the ultimate
metaphysical reality pill.

Even though it's not a pill but

I thought that was a pretty good
characterization after I took it.

It would seem to be of a
different order then LSD and

mescaline and some of the other
things that were around.

DMT really did seem to be a
whole other level of experience.

I ask that you suspend any opinions, either
negative or positive about these compounds.

Whatever you believe their value to be

they continue to have profound
effects wherever we find their use,

whether it's contemporary Western
culture or in the Amazon rainforest.

It was in the 50's that the Ayahuasca
churches started going public.

There was a kind of transition
from the indigenous

Indians in South America to
mestizo people in the cities

and then these churches - the Santo Daime
church and then the UDV church later

started doing ceremonies that would make

the Ayahuasca accessible not just to Indians

but to urban people in the big cities in Brazil

who are as far from the shamans as we are.

In the early 1990's the UDV established

a branch of their church in the United States.

In the late 90's the U.S.
customs department along

with the DEA intercepted
a shipment of ayahuasca.

The church protested the government action,
they contended that it violated

the religious freedom restoration act.

And the case was heard in the U.S.
Supreme Court, and in February 2006

their decision was announced and it was a
unanimous decision on the side of the UDV.

Why is it that in the entire Western world,
these substances that have been found to be

so interesting by hundreds of cultures for
thousands of years are prohibited?

How did these cultures that consider
themselves to be enlightened,

democratic and scientific get
to declaring plants "illegal"?

It can seem weird, but there's clearly
something deep and revealing

about the nature of these societies.

Our society values alert,
problem-solving consciousness

and it devalues all other
states of consciousness.

Any kind of consciousness that is not related

to the production or consumption of material goods

is stigmatized in our society today.

Of course, we accept drunkenness.

We allow people some brief
respite from the material grind.

A society that subscribes to
that a model is a society

that is going to condemn the
states of consciousness

that have nothing to do with
the alert problem-solving mentality.

And if you go back to the
1960s, when there was a

tremendous upsurge of
exploration of psychedelics

I would say the huge
backlash that followed that

had to do with a fear on the part
of the powers that be.

That if enough people went into those
realms and those experiences

the very fabric of the society we have
today would be picked apart

and most importantly,

those in power at the top would not be
in power at the top any more.

There was an optimism that was ungrounded

the Vietnam was happening, all this
real stuff was going on.

and the psychedelic movement
wasn't really addressing that

in a real way. And Timothy
and that bunch sold us

a false bill of goods
that didn't really work.

We are now, whether we like it or
not, in a psychochemical age.

In the future, it's not
going to be what book you read,

it's going to be
what chemicals do you use

to open or close your consciousness.

Chemicals can help us learn faster,
chemicals can help us

expand or contract our consciousness.

The atmosphere in the 1960s was

"We are doing research here,
we are dedicating our lives

to trying just about everything on the planet."

So we would try it, then we would
talk about it, then we would evaluate it.

We regarded ourselves more or
less as "spiritual pioneers."

The way I look at the 60s you can see as
a kind of failed attempt

at a mass, cultural voyage of initiation.

People would try to go out into these other
realities, but they didn't have a basis

there weren't wisdom traditions, elders, there
weren't connections of shamanic lineages.

People would go out and they
would kind of smash apart.

Timothy Leary really so discredited
a scientific approach to studying this

because he started off doing
interesting research and then

got into advocating use in a way that was
incredibly threatening. Culturally we reacted

and politically it became impossible
to do this sort of research.

Funding agencies didn't make resources
available, regulatory agencies

increased the practical hurdles for
initiating this kind of research.

And I think people, who
had interest in research

of this type largely were discredited because

of their interest in the research.

Social, political, scientific issues

that came together pushed these drugs
out of the scientific marketplace.

The public opinion in many cases had become
that psychedelic research was dangerous.

The lay public was uninformed about
the true nature of these compounds

and what their importance may be in
the understanding of perception itself.

One of the tragedies to me is
that the clinical research

on these substances pretty much stopped

around 1970.

And for me it is especially tragic because

I really believe that these substances played a major role

on the development of our philosophy

and thinking throughout the world.

What a lot of people don't realize is
that psychiatry up until the 50s

in the field in general had no concept that

neurochemistry played any role
in emotion or behavior,

which today seems really bizarre. And the

discovery of LSD and its potent
effects on the human psyche

occurred almost contemporaneously
with the discovery of serotonin

as a molecule in the brain.

And it was really when people
looked at the structure of serotonin

and compared it with LSD that
they really began to think

"Maybe, neurochemistry plays a role in
brain chemistry and, and behavioral

states". If LSD had not been discovered,
I doubt we would have

any of the drugs we have
or at least not as quickly

as we do have for treating
depression and so forth.

Once these drugs became abused and scandalized
psychiatry had to really work hard

to distance themselves from any valid

scientifically meritorious
relationship with psychedelics.

Being a psychiatrist and saying
you want to learn or study about

psychedelics it's not that well received.

I made one mention, one time that

I was discouraged from really bringing it up
again for actually a number of years.

For cultural reasons the whole class of
compounds got pulled off the clinical bench

and no research was going on for 40 years.

So scientifically, I can't imagine a
more exciting area to be pursuing

How does one go about studying
these plants and compounds?

Plants and compounds which
produce unimaginable experiences

and appear to shed light on some
of humanity's greatest mysteries

In order, to answer that question

Dr. Strassman conducted the first

human psychedelic research in a generation.

One of the things that I had established
early on was being able to discriminate

between studies in the scientific
realm and recreational use.

But in the early 1980s I
reviewed all of that literature

and could pretty well establish

on that if people were
really carefully screened

and supervised and then
followed up that the

incidents and adverse
reactions to LSD

and related psychedelic
drugs was extremely low.

The drug or the compound or the chemical
that seemed like the best candidate

to sort of reopen the U.S. front on
psychedelic research, would be DMT.

It was really exciting for me because
I thought this is the first study

in a generation, and not only that.

Despite the fact that DMT had
been used safely in earlier studies

and it was a natural component of the brain

DMT is one of the most profound
and potent psychedelics known.

So it wasn't just an initiation
of clinical research

it was a re-initiation of clinical research
with an extremely potent drug.

I was of a strong opinion that
you could do these studies

and Rick agreed so we had
a number of discussions

and at some point the discussion came up

"Dave, what if I do all this
paperwork and spend all this time

and get to the end of things and I'm
ready to go and I can't get the DMT?"

And that was a real possibility,
because DMT, clinical grade DMT

wasn't a chemical you just
buy off the shelf somewhere

And I told Rick: "If you get to that
point, and no one will make it

then I will do it."

And ultimately Rick got to that
point, and I made it.

The design of the study was
fairly straightforward:

give people DMT and measure as
many variables as possible.

I had to sort of anticipate a lot of
objections that would come my way

from the regulatory agencies
that oversee this kind research.

So at that point began a two-year
process of dealing with

not that many regulatory agencies,
but fairly monolithic ones.

One sort of a sidelight of the protocol

was the involvement of a psychiatrist
from UCLA named Daniel Freedman.

He was kind of one of the grand
old men of American psychiatry

and actually he was one of the
people who in the 50s and 60s

got their start with psychedelic research.

And the main thing that Daniel
Freedman told Rick, told us, was

"Don't even get close to psychotherapy."

"Forget about treating mental
illness or alcoholism or anything."

"Forget that. That's where all the hysteria
is at, that's where all the fears get up."

"You're a scientist, Rick.
Approach it as a scientist.

Do basic simple measurements, look
at heart-rate, cardiovascular parameters."

"You won't get in trouble doing that,
you can get it funded and it's solid science."

Rick did what he said, be has then he still was
able to get these accounts of what happened

That wasn't in the plan, wasn't really what was
proposed in the studies that were funded

That wasn't what Danny talked about.

But those were the spin-off that
really made it interesting.

Rick Strassman was advertising
in some magazine somewhere

about wanting volunteers
for a particular study

in psychotropic, and I didn't
know DMT from STP at that time.

I remember reading that and
thinking "Oh my God, this is bad"

"I better get involved in this and make sure
that somebody doesn't get hurt and

and at least there be some sensitivity towards
what this stuff is really about."

I met Rick's research nurse at a party

and she heard me talking about
that I had used peyote, ceremonially

and she took me aside and said "There's
something that you might be interested in"

"We're looking for subjects, volunteer
subjects for some unusual research."

I was a little concerned that the study
participants might be a little obnoxious

maybe that's not the right word but, people
that were just seeking to do a lot of drugs

they were very professional people.

There were varying degrees
as to how much

hallucinogen use they had
been through. It seemed like

there were some people that felt like they
had made it kind of their life mission

to experience every kind
of substance out there.

And then other people
who, I think, were just

interested for their own
personal growth and curiosity.

Once we actually got into the
preparation for the actual trips,

Rick asked me about roller coasters.

"Do you like roller coasters?"

"The sensation of going up really high and
then slamming back down towards earth."

and I said "No, I hate them,
they're horrible"

and he said "Not good."

I just wanted to go with
the experience,

learn as much as I could,
absorb as much as I could

and be humble to it.

The idea of legally sanctioned
psychedelics was just very compelling

Plus, you're in a hospital so
should you get that

uncomfortable experience
that you're dying, you're

with doctors in a very safe
environment from that point of view.

I mean, this was very cutting edge, very
out there. It was high risk, and

people knew what they
were getting into, and

they wanted to have
the extra reassurance

and I was glad actually, to have a
crash card in the room,

and a team in the hospital
to respond to any emergencies.

You're in this hospital room

and there's all the sounds
and the smells and just

the prior experiences of
being in a hospital.

All these negative things
come back so there was the

whole environment to be overcome

because little did I know that
it didn't matter where I was,

I wasn't going to be in my body,
I was going to be out in the universe

and it didn't matter where you launched from,
it could be a hospital room, it could be

the jungle in the Amazon,
it didn't matter where

you were because you weren't
going to stay there.

"Set & setting" is so important,

it's even more important than the substance,
more important than the substance

"Set & setting" is everything.

Now, what is the "set & setting"
when you are blindfolded?

The "set & setting" is not what you're
seeing, because you're not seeing anything

The "set & setting"is your internal self,

the things that you have learned, the
capacities that you have achieved,

the conditions of your own
psyche and psychology.

These are your "set & setting".

It's the medicine combined with or
interacting with the "set & setting"

that creates an effect of safety, of
trust, of comfort and of resourcefulness

and makes it possible for you to take some
big leaps and receive some big gifts

and if that's not there,
you just get terrified.

I didn't have really physical fear so
much that they would die or have a stroke

I did have some fears about
peoples' mental health,

especially with some of the higher doses.

We gave one gentleman, who had had
a lot of experience with the drug,

one dose, and he didn't think
it took him far enough

So then we gave him a higher
dose and he was gone,

he was really gone, it reminded me
of something from "The Exorcist", I mean

he just fuum, sat fold-up
on the bed and his

eyes opened up and they were
completely dilated and black,

and I almost thought he was gonna
turn his head completely around.

I remember looking at Rick and
Rick looking at me and I

thought "Oh my God, he's gone, I hope
he comes back" and he did.

The countdown was like,
counting down for your..,

preparing for your death,
waiting to surrender and...

You'd feel the coldness
just going through your

veins and it's really
indescribable, it's hard to..

it's like ice going through your veins.

And the next thing that would
happen, besides my racing heart,

is this burning sensation would
happen on the back of my neck,

I mean this was reliable,

this is like clockwork, this happened
every time that you shot me up with DMT.

And then there would be a hum, and the
hum would get louder and louder

and to the point where it
broke apart, everything

that I was or knew, it
was just this:

It just got louder and louder until
you just had to surrender to the sound

and then you were.. there.

I would get a warm,
full feeling, a golden

feeling in my chest,
before it went to my head.

I'd feel this warm rod,
about an inch and a half in

diameter start growing up
inside my central channel.

It would come up and sort of slow,
warm up my chest, go up through my head

Slow down and put tremendous pressure on my
sinuses behind my eyes, slow down.

Start to grow and distend
the skin behind my forehead

about one inch behind
my hairline

I was afraid it was going
to pop my skin a few

times, because it was a
very physical feeling.

About and inch and a half, two
inches above my skull.

when it popped through there then the
psychedelic tripping started.

I thought I died.

I saw the white clouds,

Renaissance, white fluffy
clouds, with the gods and

the angels and that all
stuff, that's what I saw.

I thought I was dying
and going out but

I did take a quick look
at Cindy and a quick

look at Rick as I had
my eyes open and

they were both there watching,
looking very calmly.

And I thought "That's really good
news, my body looks fine."

So I didn't know whether it was
my birth I was re-experiencing

my death, which was yet to come
because I know that

time crumbles, the linearity of time
is totally meaningless in these states.

You are at the Godhead, the point
where all time folds in on itself.

More and more layers of my
humanity start peeling off

finally

The last, almost the last layer and
I can not even describe what it is

but at some reaches way
in there is like the last

layer of that, which defines
you as a human being

and it goes [khkk].

You're not longer a human
being, in fact, you

are no longer anything
you can identify.

There is no concept of time,
it was so disorienting

I was so terrified, I have never
in my entire life, been so terrified.

To be blasted out of my body

To leave my body behind, to be going

at warp speed, backwards,
through my own DNA,

out the other end, into the universe.

And so I went right under this white light.

As soon as I went into it I lost
any sense of being different.

Any sense of what I was doing,
past, any sense of future.

It was absolutely blissful and
euphoric and I just felt like

it wasn't I. I was everything.

I was the light, there is no sense of
separation, no shadows, no differences

no past, no future, it was all
present and a white-yellow light.

Then I felt myself falling
out of this light,

and as I fell out of it I
could feel the light was

like a glow, like the sun
with flames coming out.

Lapping out, and I could already start
to feel this tremendous separation.

I reached across and suddenly I'm
in the Universe, in this huge void

with these beings on the other side and I

put out my hands and this
incredible rainbow of

pink light, went between
me and these entities.

And i was trying to make
it be like a white light.

But it was this incredible pink
light, this energy of love

this capacity of love,
that we as human beings

have, that I was trying
to just send to them.

This meteor-like trip through the infinite
space of the interior consciousness is..

up pops the picture puzzle pattern door and

I'm now whizzing through this sucker, like
if it was nothing, I'm flying through it.

But now I know what the picture
puzzle pattern door is.

The picture puzzle pattern door is
the furthest reaches of your humanity.

This is the doorway into what
defines you as a human being.

When you go past that, you
stop being human to a degree

and the further you get
past this point, the

further away you go from
being a human being.

But right here this picture puzzle
pattern door is everything,

it's everything, it's what defines
you as a human being.

This is your ...

This picture puzzle pattern door is you!

This is like the actual core of
where all of reality is emanating from.

This is where meaning comes from, symbols
were pouring out, they were intertwined.

Every symbol and letter in every language

was pouring out of this point.

And I looked around at
my environment and I was

trying to absorb
everything, to understand

but there were all of these machines
or structures or things that

I had never seen before, that I
had no idea of what they were

I was like a caveman in a computer lab.

I didn't have any idea, but I knew in
my intellectual awareness that this

was a very advanced civilization or

life forms or whatever they were,

they were, they were so far advanced
from what we know here on Earth.

There's one state in it, I call
it "the hobby horses"

and they're interlocking, reticulating,
vibrating hobby horses

and I use that and that's what they
seem like to me. They interlock and

they form a visual pattern that
seems infinite in scape.

And then you're on the inside,
outside, inside, everyside.

And so it's less possible to use, you know,
words sort of start to escape you.

The texture of the space was very
much like an animated Mexican tile.

It seemed to be hyper vivid in
color, in a technicolor sense.

But also very clay-like in earth,
like with an earthen..

pointing towards Earth, but
not really being on Earth.

There was no "I", there was just
a sense of a witness.

Being suspended in this
incredible vaulted space.

Like a cathedral made out of
stained glass of all imaginable colors.

Unbelievable brilliance
and saturation of color.

Just this amazing pattern in this
dome, this gigantic dome.

It felt like the size of a small planet.

And were these winged beings, I don't
remember exactly what they were like.

Angels?
Something like angels that were

majestically kind of
flying through the space.

But there was something about
the quality of how they were

flying, it was unique and I've
never seen anything like it.

It was like the sense of
another realm that was there.

At some point, there was
this implicit sense:

"This is the divine realm."

It was not like a thought,
but it was like

this implicit kind of
grokking recognition.

It was all very, very impersonal

until I got to this space where
I realized that I was in the area

where souls await rebirth.

And I was there and I had been there

so many times before, I recognized it

and this incredible transcendent peace
came over me, I have never in my life

ever felt such peace.

Everything was stripped away, every
hope, every fear, every attachment

to the material world was
completely stripped out of me.

I was free to just be
the essence of a soul.

After the medicine wore off

There is that familiar sensation of
kind of coming back into the body

I do remember that,

that was part of almost all
these experiences, of

coalescing back into sensory awareness.

And a sense of having a body, and of
that becoming a little more substantial

and "Oh yeah, here I am, I live
in a body and I'm okay."

So Laura removes the eye shades

and I ask, not really with
my eyes open quite yet,

I ask: "How long I was gone?"

Because I needed to know.

And Rick chimes in like "15 minutes".

For a moment I'm shocked.

The mind has to try to catch up.

Because now the whole cognitive dissonance
of the experience has to catch up.

I was gone for 15 minutes!

A thousand years of
experience, in 15 minutes.

Well, to say the least, it was profound.

I mean, it's amazing what a
human being can experience

in a hospital bed.

I mean they can experience
almost the whole universe

life, death, everything in between.

This is not some recreational thing

and I don't believe anybody
should enter this lightly,

it is life-transformative.

It will perhaps shake you enough to realize

that you need to be awake to
the fact that you don't know,

and that is the beginning
of starting to know.

What we see here is such
a tiny part of what is real.

I get really frustrated, because of course
there is no way to prove that where I went

was deep space that I encountered

other entities, other life forms
that exist in this universe.

At some point maybe our civilization
will become advanced enough and we will

throw off these anchors
of impossible thought

that these things are
impossible, that it's not..

everything that exists, exists
where we can see it.

I wrapped-up the studies in `95 and

really just had to take a break
for a couple of years.

I was aware of a growing sense
of discomfort with what I was doing

because I just couldn't
explain it and it

seemed to me if I couldn't
model and explain

what was going on, that
I was doing and just

bring in people to the edge of these
kinds of experiences, it seemed

like I ought to. I was a
little irresponsible to be

sort of pushing people off
the cliff like that,

without really knowing exactly
where I was and accepting and

understanding and feeling
comfortable with that model.

I think what began dawning on me after
a while once I stopped the study

was that I was really dealing
with a spiritual phenomenon.

What do these experiences say
about the nature of reality,

the nature of our minds

or the function of our brain
that we can so quickly shift

into these alternate realities?

Let's take a step back and consider
how these experiences inform us

about ourselves, our consciousness
and the symbiosis of the two.

It started seeming to me that
what was happening with DMT

particularly with respect to some of these

reports of entering parallel or
alternate or free standing parallel

sorts of realms of
existences, that that

indeed was what their
consciousness was doing.

The chemistry of their
brain, which is the organ

of consciousness, was
being changed by DMT

in such a way that they could
then receive information

that we weren't able to receive normally.

Yes, there's the experiences from DMT and
ayahuasca, and they have their function

but if we also look at what
it enables us to see.

It just rips that filtering
mechanism away for a few minutes

and for a few minutes you're immersed
in sort of this raw data sphere

of input, of sensory input, of
memories, of associations, I mean

it seems like the brain builds
reality out of these things,

what you're experiencing, what
you have experienced and

how you associate and
synthesize these things

together to tell yourself
a story, essentially

about what's going on, where
you are in space and time.

It's the brain that helps us to
process all this information

and to create for us a rendition
of what our world is all about

but we're trapped within that brain.

However, in spiritual experiences
where people feel

that they get beyond the self.

In certain types of
psychedelic experiences,

where you have incredible sensory
and other types of phenomena

people really feel like they are able
to kind of get outside of their brain.

We have to take a very big
look at what is going on

within them when
they have the experience

and try to understand how it
happens physiologically

and try to make sense of
it from the subjective

perspective as well as from
the objective perspective,

I don't think you can
just say, "Let's just

explain it away on
the basis of science."

What I was doing early on
when I was hearing these reports

interpreting them, calling
them psychological

or brain chemistry aberrations or whatever.

There's a part of the brain was being
dinged that was responsible for

the alien appearance phenomenon.

This is not a new phenomenon.

Entities in altered states
have been recognized for

an extremely long time in many
cultures over the millennia.

Helpers, spirit assistants, angels,

all of these different entities
have been fairly common throughout

man's experiences of altered states

and through much of man's mythology.

I don't think it's an
impossibility that people

are, in some way,
interacting with some sort

of an intelligence or sentient being
or something that exists

at some level that's not in this
three-dimensional physical plane.

I'm looking at it from a sense of:

"Okay, is the drug healing you?"

"Is it helping you?"

or, "is it giving you the tools?",
"what are you bringing back?"

What you bring back, I think,
has to be something more than

"there are these entities out there."

The best psychedelic explorers,

are people who realize that even

the "truths" they see on a trip

are not "truths", but "new models",
new "what-ifs" alternative frames.

Unless there is a map and a
clear methodology

then one will just have a
variety of different experiences.

All of these various experiences
that have been reported

from NDEs, near-death experiences,

alien abductions, alien encounters,

sexual ecstasy,

I believe all of these experiences,
in fact, are fractals.

If we understand the concept
of fractal geometry,

no matter how small it is,

it contains everything that is
in the larger picture

and thus that validates, profoundly,
all these various experiences.

Discount the phenomenon as
hallucinatory or imaginary,

I think it's maybe more useful to look at
the mechanism of action.

If it is real then perhaps,
how does it work?

Look, there's extraordinarily
regular phenomena

that come-up with these
things, that are clearly linked

in many ways to these larger

human issues around mysticism
or religious experience

or encounters with other entities.

And here we have it.

And if you can't go in there and really
go in there and account for this material

inside your neuro-scientific framework,

you're leaving a huge gap.

You've got to account for this
stuff the way you've got to

account for dreams, the
way you've got to account for

all sorts of psychoactive responses.

Using DMT as an explanatory model, as kind
of a mediator between our consciousness and

a consciousness of a non-corporeal
sort of reality. It's handy.

With DMT, there are no words

I would try to wrap mathematical vocabulary
around the experience afterward.

I specialized in the
metaphor of vibration.

And how vibrations
influence creative form.

That would be the key to
the relationship between

the spiritual realm and
the ordinary realm.

This was the window
that was opened by DMT.

Using psychedelic drugs or other
types of pharmacological substances

can help to induce a state

where people feel that they

touch a deeper sense of reality.

Where they understand the
reality on a more fundamental level.

And they gain a great
deal of insight and knowledge

into the ways in
which the world works

and how they are, as a human being,
supposed to relate to that world.

DMT is somehow, seems to
me in my experience

more of a breakthrough than LSD,
mushrooms, peyote and so on.

It's instructive, it's
more supportive of

future evolution and the
creation of the future

and it is in itself, more of a mystery.

How could this little stuff
produce something that

has intelligence.

It is actually a doorway
to another reality.

So, what is the nature of reality?

And what is the nature of how we,
as human beings experience it?

Can we understand it better?

Are we capable of understanding reality
on some very fundamental levels?

And what do we need to do in
order to prepare for that?

You know, there are parallel universes, it seems,
at least that's the theory in modern physics.

There is dark matter, which is

a huge amount of the matter of the
universe, maybe 95% or more.

While radical as an idea, it's just a
logical extension in some ways of

instead of using a machine to see
more than we normally can see,

we're using the brain.

There are fields which
are undiscovered so far

which have nothing to do with
anything that is discovered so far.

The gravitational field

was unknown before the year 1604.

The electromagnetic field

unknown before the year
1830 or something.

All of these, what we call the
fundamental fields of mathematical physics

are new discoveries.

Dark energy is an even newer
discovery and beyond that are

maybe more discoveries yet coming
beyond our cosmos itself,

and higher dimensions as they say.

I still don't have very much
use for the concept of God

but I do believe that there are higher
levels, transcendent levels of reality

and I'm now actually now
starting to really believe that

the brain is not the source
of consciousness,

it's not really who we are but

it's more like a radio tuner
for something way bigger.

Are these experiences
"spiritual experiences" or

otherwise are they created by
physiological processes or

is the brain itself responding to
something that's going on?

And the fact that somebody may
actually find a way of "turning on" their brain

to spiritual experiences.

Again, I'm not sure that that
necessarily diminishes the reality

or the realness of what these
experiences are about.

If the pharmacology or
psychopharmacology of

psychedelic experiences
turn out to be

essentially the same as religious
or spiritual experiences,

it would help us to
understand where these

experiences are occurring
within the human brain.

I'm actually quite, quite convinced

that we're probing the biological
basis of moral and ethical behavior,

I think that these primary
religious experiences

really are at the bed rock of
the world's religions.

The research and knowledge, speculation
about the pineal body and DMT

is in fact

the hand of God, that is interacting
with our natural evolution

to stimulate and accelerate the
process of redemption

of individual and of collective
global enlightenment.

Because of my ayahuasca
experiences I consider myself a

spiritual person, I know things now
that I could never have known otherwise.

These experiences, so familiar for
a lot of different people

and it's so easily acquired

and so much information come with so little
effort, that it is a kind of a miracle,

it's a miraculous way for us to
transcend ordinary reality and obtain

maybe an intimation of what's
necessary for our survival.

Ranging from new forms
of medical treatment

to a better understanding
of the Universe

to life changing spiritual revelations,

these natural tools offer us the
ability to seek greater knowledge.

Tools that could positively
effect life on our planet.

Let's answer Dr Strassman's question.

If so ... so what?

Because of the collapse of consciousness

spiritual and scientific
knowledge split apart.

Both these modes of knowing have to
come together. Science and technology

from a traditional religious
perspective is not an extra,

it is part of the process by which humanity
is going to evolve into its next stage.

How do we find like the right
form for psychedelics in the future?

Assuming that psychedelics are
part of the human future

at the moment they're still generally
repressed and suppressed and illegal.

If that were to change,

how would we begin to
construct a kind of a

system that would allow for rational
and mature exploration of psychedelics?

I think that the name of the game is to

show science the pertinence
of this somewhat outlandish realm.

It's not just crazy stuff.

It shouldn't be considered as, let's say,
not even worthy of interest or illegitimate,

I actually think because it's

declared off bounds, it just makes
it interesting to start with.

But one doesn't want to throw
out the baby with the bath water

and I think it's really important to

stay faithful to science.

What does it mean? Why is there
a part of the brain that seems to be

for lack of a better word
"a God-detector"?

What's the evolutionary advantage
to having some part of the brain

that seems to

trigger and mediate experiences
of the transcendent?

The Kabbalah is revealing to us
that the pineal body is actually

is the very edge of the
higher dimension that is

penetrating into our lower
dimension, and it is located

precisely in the middle of the brain

I can remember reading about Descartes,

thinking that is was actually
the interface between

the spiritual dimension and
the dimension of matter.

I remember studying that as
a foolish idea from our history

and now it seems actually
like a very interesting idea.

What we are looking for out there

is really in here.

It is the doorway, it is the gate.

So we focus on the transformative
effect of the psychedelics

but it's also true, the
reverse is true that

it requires transformation in order to

embrace psychedelics.

It's one of the tricky
paradoxes of postmodernism,

that psychedelics both require and
produce a transformative effect.

We have severed our connection to spirit.

That's what our society has done,

it has sought to persuade us that the
material realm is the only realm,

and the only way we're going to
recover is to reconnect with spirit.

And I truly believe we need the
help of the plants in order to do that.

Part of our work is to respect
these medicines and then

to change the culture
enough that people

doing them can be respected.

Not everybody

needs to do them, not everybody
should or wants to but

that it isn't pushed to the
side and so part of that

does involve then research,
because that's how in our

reductionist society we validate things.

With the passing of the years, and the
opportunity for sober reflection, I think

there's a growing appreciation that
there may be something to gain

from studying these compounds,

there's a lot we can learn and there

may very well be treatment models,
particularly for patient populations

for whom conventional
treatments are ineffective,

for whom the psychedelic model when
utilized optimally, may provide great benefit.

I think the most important thing
that we could do right now that would be

fairly straightforward to do is to

ask and answer the question of
whether Ayahuasca could help

people who have drug and alcohol abuse.

And given that we know that DMT and
similar alkaloids have a very strong effect

on the same receptor sites that
are involved in depression.

And the notion that most
people, in my experience,

who use drugs and alcohol
are self-medicating

a deep depression or an anxiety.

I've had permission now over the
last few years to utilize psilocybin

which is the active alkaloid in
hallucinogenic mushrooms

in the treatment of patients with
advanced stage cancer who have anxiety

we're treating the anxiety, not the cancer.

Now, psilocybin is
4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine so

obviously from the chemical structure
point of view, very similar to DMT.

Ultimately, what I want to do is

see these things used in the way
they were used traditionally

to heal people, help people

and right now

helping people come to terms with dying.

It changes your whole relationship
to your death, you're impending death,

believe it or not, you're gonna die.

And now with this tool with
having crossed over already

some of the fear
around that will disappear.

Now I am beginning to wonder
whether consciousness

may actually survive
biological death.

That maybe the model that
we've been working under

in psychiatry and behavioral
pharmacology model,

it's just wrong, it's backwards actually.

That consciousness is primary in
the universe and matter is a result of.

Utilizing substances like DMT
or 5-methoxy-DMT

may really help us prepare

by practicing a transient dying experience.

Thus far we're observing,

very positive effects in regards to

the nature of experience
during the session,

and then subsequent effects
on mood regulation,

and anxiety control, pain perception

and overall quality of life
for cancer patients.

By and large our subjects do quite well
in the time they have remaining.

For those people who do
come to terms with it,

part of it is a recognition
that these psychedelics open up

a space that they weren't aware existed

and sort of give them a vision of
what could be past death, as well as

a better perspective on the
accomplishments they've made in life,

a better feeling about what they
have done in their own lives.

What I think all people
who have psychedelic

trips and meditations
and so on are poking

more or less into the same higher realm

and receiving some information.

If we can develop this, into..
this could absorbed into

ordinary science that we could approach
with the scientific method and so on then

our intelligence, capability of
survival on planet Earth,

would be increased.

We are a dying species, we

live on a dying planet,
we're killing the planet

so our disease is extremely serious,

and therefore we're desperate to
find new information, ideas and so on

that can transcend.

We have to evolve, and I think
our intellectual evolution

may be predicated upon the
psychedelic pioneers.

It's so easy to change the
world, I mean

if that's the kind of thing
that you can see

on psychedelics.

If you don't get trapped in the beauty and
awe of the psychedelic experience itself.

It's like looking through

the chandelier of reality from a
different vantage point.

You can now project through
those crystals in another way

and it's beautiful.

But ...

Okay, now come back,
now come back.

I think if I ever were to resume giving
people psychedelics, particularly DMT,

it wouldn't be just to tinker with brain
chemistry and just see what's happening.

I think one of the things I
also learned in the research

is that you just don't wanna give drugs
and see what happens, that's a little

I don't know if callous is the
word but that's the first

word that comes to mind, I
think, if you're really going to

open people up like that, you
need to do it for a purpose

not just for scientific curiosity and
like to be helpful

rather that just sort of smart or clever.

To my mind is this kind
of a two edge sword of

simultaneously opening
up to the numinous world

to the world of messages, the world
of spirits, the world of entities.

And at the same time,
rigorously, taking that

material into the acid
bath of neurology,

into sociology, into the ongoing
construction of reality.

And that the wisdom that these
things bring, is this kind of

very tricky mixture of authentic
religious experience

with gods, and messages and clear signs

and a sort of remarkable
mirror of the mind.

The curiosity, perhaps the
uniqueness of the human creature

is that we live in both realms.

We have the ability for
spiritual experience and

we have the ability for
physical experience.

The agenda of the spirit
world, if there is an agenda

is to allow us to experience our full
potential and to deliver our full potential

and maybe the choices that
we are making right now

as a civilization of a society,
rebound far beyond ourselves.

I think DMT is a forcible
reminder that there's

a lot more about reality, the
universe, ourselves,

the biosphere, whatever, there's
a lot more to it than we imagine.

It seems our reality is not
the only reality,

occasionally the cracks reveal themselves

and may even want to be discovered.

As humans, we are creatures
that thirsts for knowledge.

We spend time, money and
infinite energy searching for it

in schools, in churches, in
business and in technology.

Knowledge is power and
thus our greatest quest.

Dimethyltryptamine.

A molecule with a complex
name and the simplest ability

to unlock the door to another dimension,

and perhaps, just perhaps,
our future evolution.