Claydream (2021) - full transcript

Are you hungry, Al?

- Well, yeah!
- I could... I could use a...

ham sandwich, Mmmm.

- Where's that chicken?
- What is going on?

Characters
have a simplicity to them and a

complexity to them.

Who's here?

Here
comes the director!

I can't hear anything!

Quiet on the set!

Hey, have you guys
finished that shot yet?



Interesting
characters often have a simple

goal and a simple purpose,

but it's in
great conflict with

either the world around
him, with other people.

One could say that the story
makes the character or the

character makes the story.

Please,
raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear that
this testimony taken will be the

truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth

so help you God?

I do.

Good morning, Mr. Vinton.

Good morning.

Are you aware that
you have sued Mr. Knight for



$3,000,000?

-Yes.
There were extraordinarily

strange happenings

and amazing
manipulation

led by... without
question... led by Phil Knight,

who had other
motives for the company.

That reflects a
dispute, wouldn't you agree?

Yeah.

It still remains to me stunning
really that the founder of the

company could basically ignore
the interests of shareholders

other than Will Vinton or
myself... the employees,

the creditors... ignore all
their interests and put this

company on the
threshold of bankruptcy

for no logical reason.

No,
that's not correct.

It's definitely,
absolutely the other way around.

Were you one of those kids that
always played with the home 8mm

movie camera and was
making projects all the time?

Projects, yeah, a lot
of projects when I was a kid.

Grew up in
McMinnville, Oregon...

classic Small Town, U.S.A.

I never really had much
interest in film production

until I actually went to
college and became very,

very interested in it.

My sister, who was in Berkeley,
strongly encouraged me to be a

part of this scene that
was Berkeley in the '60s.

There was just so much going on.

The whole Claymation
thing really evolved

out of studying architecture.

I was very fascinated with
Antoni Gaudí who had done

extraordinarily organic
shapes in architecture,

things that had to be sculpted.

And that got me messing
with plasticine clay,

and the filmmaking and the
clay got together and... for some

early experiments.

My father used to shoot
16mm film as home movie.

I asked him if I
could use his camera,

so I got this great little
filmmaker kit and kind of

instantly became a filmmaker.

My father was really
hoping I would be,

you know, a corporate
executive or something,

but he also really encouraged me
to explore and try things and,

you know, give it a go.

And if you believe in
something strong enough,

you'll find a way
to make it happen.

So first thing I started doing
is shooting a lot of stuff on

the Berkeley campus.

This is the '60s things
were getting pretty wacky.

I was really fascinated
by what cameras could do,

and, in particular, stop motion.

You know, setting a camera on a
tripod and shooting one frame at

a time, making things move.

And animating human bodies.

You know, sort of looked
at this stuff and I said,

"Whoa, that's pretty cool!"

I learned really
quickly how you cut,

how you focus an
audience's attention,

the language of film
and the power of film.

I wasn't a storyteller, but I
saw the power of storytelling.

There was a very active
film community in Berkeley...

Filmmakers, people
that did various kinds

of experimental films.

I organized evenings where I'd
stick an animation camera on the

table, give everybody
a beer in one hand,

blob of clay in the other,
you know, getting a little

inebriated...
taking a puff, as well.

And, of course, most
of this stuff became

a little pornographic.

That was the beginning
of Claymation for me.

It was a real
epiphany to see these very,

very crude things
happening on this tabletop,

to see these characters evolve
in this incredibly simple and

non-planned sort of way.

What I was most amazed
about was how this completely

inanimate wad of clay could
move and be imbued with life.

It's the fascination
one has with magic.

When I first saw this stuff, it
really made an impression on me.

And I felt... even then... that
if I could marry the magic that

I saw with really
solid film skills,

I could be really powerful.

Kneel down in the dust!

Toiling over a lump of
clay 'til he shaped it!

In order to do
the kind of experimenting that I

wanted to do, taking
it to the next level,

I really kind of
needed a little studio.

And actually managed to buy
a small house in Portland,

and it ended up being my
future animation studio.

Well, for several years while
making live-action and a few cel

animated films, I was working on
a technique of clay animation.

It was a technique that Bob
Gardiner... a sculptor... and I

worked on during college.

Bob was crazy,
wonderful artist

really out
there... and just

a kind of a wild energy
that was intoxicating,

and classic artist
with a capital A.

I happened to know that he
would be... and was... not

doing anything.

"Say, why don't you come on
up, and let's make a film?"

So Bob came up and lived at my
place and ended up living there

for like a year
and a half,

much to my
wife's chagrin.

Because Bob's lifestyle is
loose with various psychedelics,

which I was dabbling
in at the time too,

but not as intensely.

But I always liked working
with really good artists.

Bob was absolutely
one of those people,

in the sense that he was
intensely on another plane.

Bob
was a really charming guy.

He was a mad genius.

Together they were
the perfect team.

You had the wild, crazy artist
with the organized producer.

We spent a
lot of time in that basement

experimenting with clay...

metamorphosis,
lip-sync, cutting techniques.

Clay animation had
been around forever.

People ask if we invented it.

No, but what we did was brought
it to the forefront by doing a

lot of experimenting.

I decided to do a little short
short film that really showed

off some of these techniques.

We had trouble keeping the
characters very stable and

steady, and so we tended to make
the characters all be winos so

they could stumble around.

Thank you for turning me on.

I am a replica of the model
5-0-5 Type C electro-brain

correct, error key
muta... muta... mutation,

mutations,
metamorphological mutations,

mutations of reversal,
comparing mutations,

mutations, metamorphology,
push and program,

push and as the... as
the... as the world turns...

We were real
excited about getting it done in

time for this local film
festival here in Portland,

and it was rejected.

We were just devastated.

It was a sad time,
but never stops me.

So I made as many prints as I
could afford and started sending

it around to film festivals.

And suddenly we started
getting amazing response.

Top prize at major,
big-time festivals,

and it got nominated
for an Academy Award.

The winner is 'Closed Mondays, '
Will Vinton and Bob Gardiner.

I'd like to thank
family and friends,

and uh, Will.

Thank you very much.

Thanks members of the
Academy for an incredible honor.

And hello and thank you to all
our friends back home in Oregon.

After the
win, we were partying at the.

Governor's Ball.

Bob's mother came up to him
with quite a serious face,

and she said this
was too much too soon,

and this is the kiss of death.

It made me really concerned
about what ultimately happens

with Bob.

Winning an Oscar was huge.

Seemed to me kind
of an opportunity

to explore things further.

I was just itching
to do more projects.

But for Bob, winning the Academy
Award was such a heady thing.

He was off doing all
sorts of crazy things.

Bob would walk around town
with his Oscar in his pocket and

stick it up on a bar and
see who'd buy him drinks.

That was the way he saw what he
was gonna do with this Oscar.

It got to be so hard that
I couldn't count on him.

It was just such a
clash of working styles.

We felt it was good to do our
own things and then help each

other out.

Bob set up
his own little studio and he got

a commission from
Rolling Stone to do a TV show.

I got to visit his studio
and see what he was doing,

and I was really impressed.

So he did get work
after he left Vinton,

but he wasn't a good businessman
and he couldn't follow through

on it.

I think he was bipolar, so
unfortunately he descended into

this drunken stupor, and he
would rail at Vinton and claim

that he was really the artistic
genius behind 'Closed Mondays, '

that he developed the Claymation
technique and that Vinton never

gave him credit.

Will and him separated, but Will
filled the vacuum left by Bob

with really great animators.

Everything
I did after that was Will

Vinton Productions.

Will Vinton
interview, take one.

Second camera.

And the third camera.

That was the
beginning of this wonderful,

delightful
collaborative kind of phase

where the goal was to try
to find some way we could

push the Claymation
into some new areas.

He had
this little studio that was

behind a barbershop.

Walk past the barbershop and up
these steps and into this secret

domain, and suddenly
there's an animation studio.

And so it was like going
into a James Bond movie.

It was like magic.

You would not believe
what it felt like to walk

through that place.

The
studio was like the mother-ship.

I remember clearly
one day thinking,

"We're all gonna end up being
old together and having an old

persons' home... retirement home.

We're all gonna
be living together."

Because it all felt very close.

When you walk
away, you track it out.

It
Was very hippie-like.

Can you smell that?

A sort of commune.

You got some of it, don't you?

I
Have my actual contract.

It doesn't even have
my real name on it.

It was for fun.

There was nothing
legal about it.

It was just like, "Hey
you wanna work here?

Okay, well what's your name?

I'll just make one up."

The word
"corporate” didn't exist.

It just didn't
feel like a business.

It felt like art
school plus vacation.

We weren't a
very sophisticated business.

We were a collective of
artists focused on doing

good creative work.

The energy was
so melodic and forward-moving.

I felt like I was working
with a master who was creating

something really wonderful
that was gonna endure for a

very long time.

On those cues, we're
gonna turn on the lights.

Maybe have some
ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

Will Vinton's
characters seem almost human,

partly because they are.

In fact, the
entire production is shot and

soundtracks recorded with live
actors before animating begins.

You keep looking out
the window because...

I thought that
I... that you were...

That whole
first decade was all about

trying to see what we could
do, see how far we could go.

What's gonna be
different about it?

What are we gonna learn from
this one that we didn't learn

from previous ones, and what
can we take forward into the

next project?

I hardly even remember
thinking about making money.

The thinking was always about
what we could do to make the

projects as cool as
they could possibly be.

We did so many things as
creatively as we did by virtue

of the fact that we
were doing them very,

very inexpensively.

Lower the budget is, we could
get creative control and do

wonderful things.

Then they go to the bar and
drink on furlough and they fight

the air force,
they fight the navy...

Of course,
there's no coast guard.

Oh, and then, of course, you
know, back home there was the

Andrews sisters singing
"Bugle Boy" of Company C.

We knew we
were pioneering something.

We were doing something that had
never really been done before,

during which we picked up four
more Academy Award nominations.

Nobody ever told
me I couldn't do it.

- All I've seen in my experience.
- - In my life... has been that

if you put your mind to it,
and believe that you can do it

and want to do
it... you'll do it.

Let her go!

You can make it, fly!

We
All charged ahead,

expanding it and trying to grow
it and move it in whatever ways

we possibly could.

Will loved the fact that he
didn't have to be in Los Angeles

to do this kind of
work and to get noticed.

Has there ever been a
temptation for you to move from

Portland to Hollywood where
all the big film business is?

Well, in all honesty there's
some small amount of temptation.

Here you are in Portland,

which is hardly a film center.

Lifestyle mattered
more than money, and

what people did on the
weekends mattered more than

their jobs.

What I can surmise from
what you're positing is like,

Portland's almost an
alternative universe.

It's almost like
cars don't exist, right?

Yes!

You can ride bikes,
or double decker bikes.

They ride unicycles,
they ride the tram,

they ride skateboards.

Exactly!

'Portlandia' is almost like
a documentary as far as I'm

concerned in terms of
showing how eccentric and unique

Portland is, and how much
everything's kind of a one-off.

Will's Claymation
studio's like that too.

Nobody else is doing
anything like this.

He wanted to do his own
thing, he created it,

and he gave us all these jobs.

The best stop-motion animators
from around the world all

gravitated to the
famous Will Vinton Studio.

I'm really
committed to working here,

and there's really no reason
that you have to produce a film

in Hollywood.

Will the entrepreneur... Will
the guy who started something

from nothing and did it just
because he wanted to... if

you're gonna be an entrepreneur,
you're gonna start a company,

you're gonna be the man.

The first time I
really met Will,

the two words that came
to mind were "white heat,"

a burning ambition
to make a brand,

to make a name.

He just wanted to conquer.

A good
decade before Will got started,

there was another eclectic
long-shot small business here

in Oregon.

It was a guy selling
shoes, and it was Phil Knight,

and that company became Nike.

- Oh sweat!
- Oh sweat!

Oh sweat, it's Nike!

You gotta hook me up!

It absolutely came to dominate.

It became this
world-eating company.

And there's an interesting
parallel between Phil and Will

they pioneered an
industry and they stuck with it,

and against all odds they
built something pretty special.

And then they sort of came
together and disasters result.

Mr. Knight,
please raise your right hand.

Do you solemnly swear that this
testimony will be the truth,

the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth,

so help you God?

- I do.
- Thank you.

Mr. Knight, would you explain
what first interested you in

investing in Will
Vinton Studios?

Wil Vinton had approached me
in the spring of '98 about the

possibility of investing
in Will Vinton Studios,

and I was intrigued.

And what intrigued you?

Well, first of all, profitable.

They had been in
existence a long time,

they had won an
Academy Award, and

they'd had considerable artistic
success in the creative field,

and I was interested in that.

Was there any intent to do
future Will Vinton Studios

animation outside of Portland?

What do future plans outside
of Portland have to do with any

subject matter of this lawsuit?

Well I have a theory, but
I don't need to go into it.

Um, how would
you characterize

your level of frustration

over Will Vinton?

High.

Portlanders Will
Vinton and Susan Shadburne have

made animated films Walt
Disney would've envied.

Your working relationship,
you're married but you also

work together.

I would think that it would
be hard to separate the two.

It is.

And we really live
two separate lives.

When we were working really
intensely on something... I

should point out the 'Rip Van
Winkle' script got started on

our honeymoon...

He kept telling me that
was a deadline

and things like that.

- Will's extraordinarily focused.
- - one of the most focused

people I've ever met...

But if his focus shifts,

he really is able to kind of cut
the traces of what came before,

totally cut them.

When things
get kind of easy or a little

rote, I find myself going
kind of somewhere else.

I mean,
all the times I knew him,

I don't remember us ever having
to wrestle with his conscience.

It is, "This is
what's being done.

This is what I'm doing."

I didn't ever see
him waver on that.

The ending of it came as a
complete surprise to me.

He had a wife prior to me.

He left her in
exactly the same way.

12 years...

no discussions about it,

no looking back.

He was a mystery to himself.

He's a very complex man.

The place he felt most free to
express himself was in his work.

Will on one
hand showed himself to

the world through his art.

He had all of these characters
who, of course, were expressing

facets of himself.

And yet he was also
a very private man.

There's a lot of people, maybe
most of the people who know Will

who might say, "I never
really quite knew him.

I could never
quite figure him out."

He had trouble
expressing emotions

when it wasn't with clay.

I see Will as a character,
a character with a dream,

with a character flaw, and
with a kind of a sadness.

Characters
have an infinite range of

emotions and expressions, but
there aren't an infinite number

that they use.

A character usually
stays in character.

All together now!

The pressure on
this first creative phase is

that we wanted to keep
the bar extremely high,

and we wanted to
do feature films.

As things began to get bigger
and bigger and pretty soon he's

having what he wants... which
he always told me was to be the

second Walt Disney... and
it looked as if maybe that

were happening.

There were
definitely parallels between the

young Will Vinton Studios
and Walt Disney Studios.

Each success followed by a
way to follow up on that in a

commercial way, and
then if you can do that,

you can experiment and
make 'Fantasia' or build

a Disneyland.

Will had it.
He was actually doing it.

He won his Oscar.

He was making shorts.

He was making a feature,
which was 'The Adventures of

Mark Twain.'

A man with a
new idea is a fool...

until the idea succeeds.

'The Adventures of
Mark Twain' was the zenith of

Claymation because
the whole kitchen sink

was thrown in there.

A lot of the techniques that you
saw in some of the short films

that came before it.

Clay
painting from "The Creation...'

metamorphosis from
"The Great Cognito..."

Special effects that we used in
things like 'The Little Prince.'

There's nothing like it.

There's nothing
even remotely like it.

Will wanted this to feel like
you were in his clay world.

Furniture was made out of
clay, the walls were clay,

the pictures on
the wall were clay.

It is a landmark achievement
in the motion picture field,

and that is because it is the
first clay-animated feature

movie ever made.

A lot
was riding on "The Adventures

of Mark Twain.'

It was in production over five
years with a small crew toiling

over this very tedious
process of making this movie.

The basic
philosophy has not changed.

Vinton and his staff hope
to continue to be a form of

entertainment
primarily for adults.

You'll never see Will Vinton's
name on the kind of things that

you're seeing now on
Saturday morning TV.

Will felt
that this is a sophisticated

film that should
appeal to adults.

And it just didn't get
marketed in that way.

The interesting
thing is the movie,

it's kind of a dark story, and
there were warning labels on

those cassettes that say, "This
may not be suitable for your

child," which was the kiss
of death if you're trying to

release a children's movie.

'Mark Twain' had
a really disappointing premiere.

People would
take their children,

or they didn't always
get the next level of

humor or sophistication.

Welcome
to the mysterious stranger.

Hello.

Who are you?

Satan.

Well, there's
no question I was hoping.

"Mark Twain' would be
the beginning of doing more

feature projects.

I think above all I was
disappointed with what happens

in the world of distribution.

That was a real sad thing that
nobody seemed to know what to do

with this magical stuff.

He had a capacity to put things
in a place where they wouldn't

interfere or slow him down, but
in his private place with just

himself, he and him,
it hurt him very much.

I did a bit of soul searching
and thought about how the

creative process works, and I've
come up with what I think is my

most creative project to date,
which I would like to introduce

to you at this time.

This is Billy.

Say hello!

Let's look at the creative
process and how it works.

It all starts with an idea.

Perhaps nothing more
than a twinkle in your eye.

And in time, with a
little give and take,

assuming the idea
finds fertile ground,

it may soon be fully conceived.

But you still don't
know what you've got.

As the concept goes
into a gestation period,

it grows and it modifies.

Finally, the project is
fully realized with a tremendous

amount of effort.

And is released...

Yeah.

And is
released for all to see.

To the creators it's
hard to be objective,

and it often looks pretty
bad when it first comes out.

But at that point, one can't
help but sort of feel like

you're... question what it is
you've really done as a creator,

and before long a strong sense
of pride generally results to

the point where you may
even consider doing it again.

We have Mummy.

And Billy.

Let me stand up and
show how pregnant.

Very pregnant.

There it is.

That's Jesse.

Yeah, this is Jesse.

Oh my God, there they go!

He was
always interested in looking

for projects that
we could do with him.

Even though he wasn't the kind
of person that would really say

a lot of "I love yous"

or really kind of
show affection...

You know, he had his own way
of constantly showing us that he

loved us.

The best times that we
had with one another,

we were actively trying
to accomplish a goal,

making something,
creating something.

Going to cut down
a Christmas tree,

we would literally hack
down like a 20-foot tree,

and we'd bring it home.

Billy and I were six and eight
years old and we were like up on

the balcony with like a
rope-pulley system that my dad

had like showed us how to
like rig on the top of the tree,

and he's down below trying
to like push the tree up.

There's Will.

There's Will.

The man
with the camera,

and now we're moving in on him,
because... Billy don't pull on

the camera!

Get a close-up of him
so that we know that Daddy was

here too.

Things
were really taking off for the

studio, and it
was growing rapidly.

He spent an enormous
amount of time at the studio,

and maybe prioritized
that over family a little bit.

I think that's
what he had to do.

Oh, look at the...

After 'Mark Twain' had a really

disappointing premiere,
we were all depressed.

Will came back,
and was like, "Well,

let's get to
work," like undaunted.

"Okay, let's get rolling," and
he would say that without fail.

And so that's just the kind
of guy he was... it was like,

"Okay,
let's get rolling."

I've never seen
him exhibit frustration or anger

or being down.

So it is hard to sort of see him
as a fully rounded human being,

because he's always
got that outward-facing,

optimistic demeanor.

You wonder, "What
are the secret doubts?"

My parents
were always just so supportive

of trying things,
of experimenting.

What they would say,
"Yeah okay, what's next?"

And I'm like that
myself, like, "That was cool.

That was really fun.
Okay, let's see what's next."

Kind of look around.

The California Raisin Advisory
Board came to us with the idea

of personifying
raisins that moved to

"I Heard It
Through the Grapevine."

I was the director on the
first California Raisins spot,

and I thought, "Man,
what a dorky commercial.

Nobody's ever gonna
see this commercial.

I'm wasting my time."

A tiny, tiny
little advertising campaign

just took off.

It went viral in an era
where "viral" didn't exist yet.

T seems almost everyone is
wild about these raisins and

their hip sales pitch.

The fact that
it's taken the nation by storm

is kind of quite a surprise.

Raisins are more
popular with youngsters than old

favorites like Charlie Brown.

A true advertising phenomenon.

America
has gone raisin crazy.

We have raisin
t-shirts, raisin sweatshirts,

raisin coffee mugs.

Claymation
was on people's tongues

in a way that it
never had been before.

I can't tell you how
many times people said,

"Wow, what's it like to
be an overnight success?"

Well,
we've all heard of

the overnight sensation...

And I'm going, "Yeah,
after 15 years of doing this."

You know?

Will Vinton is an
Academy Award winner,

but hardly anybody knew
his name until he made a

television commercial.

To me,
commercials were little films,

using characters to
really connect with audiences.

We have a hit now, and it's
opening up all these new doors

for us, and we're a busy studio.

Meet the Noid...

the star of Domino's
Pizza commercials.

The Noid happened the same time
the California Raisins happened

and just blew up.

They were huge.

But we won an award for
being the stupidest ad campaign.

I don't get it.
He hates pizza?

He loves pizza?
He wrecks pizza?

So why should I get Domino's?

- Does it sell pizzas?
- Oh, absolutely.

Like crazy.

People
became aware of this process of

Claymation, and they
wanted to be part of it.

Nike
makes aerobic shoes...

tennis shoes...

There
was a lot of capital.

One of the accountants said,
"What are you guys doing over

there?
You printing money?"

He was so surprised at
the level of profitability.

My father finally
stopped wondering when I was

gonna get a real job.

And he said that to me.

I'd like to thank
our family and friends...

and Will.

Bob Gardiner saw that Will
moving forward with their idea

and creating a company
that didn't include him,

he felt that he had been
slighted or robbed of something.

Everybody
knew Bob was kind of crazy.

Crazy Bob, funny crazy Bob, who
wasn't so funny after a while.

His activity
would flare up whenever the

studio was
getting a lot of press.

It seemed to agitate him.

"Claymation"... you
coined the phrase?

- Yeah, right.
- It's just clay...

It comes from "clay animation."

You'd
come to work in the morning,

and there'd be graffiti on the
wall outside that was clearly a

message from Bob.

He wrote "Swill Vinton,

Mediocre Crap" like in
five-foot high letters.

He would
call Vinton up in the middle of

the night, yell at
him, and threaten him.

Hello?

There would be death threats...

Yes, uh huh.

And the studio
had to take those seriously.

Will carried a gun.

Okay, yeah.

My name is Nicolle
Gardiner-Sampson,

and Bob Gardiner was my father.

I probably won't ever
meet anybody like my dad.

If you approached him, he would
often have a story to tell,

or he'd play the piano for you.

He would draw with you
and doodle with you.

Nothing was ever typical.

It was magical.

I knew that Bob and
Will had a falling out since

I was a little girl.

I think it was always a
ghost that haunted him,

and he struggled letting go.

By the way, is Mr. Gardiner
the one who is the true creator

of Claymation?

Um, why would you ask that?

I don't want to
hear, "Why would I?"

Because your complaint alleges
that you are widely recognized

as a creative genius and
the developer of Claymation.

Answer the question.

Mr. Gardiner, absolutely not.

Did you develop it
jointly with Mr. Gardiner?

Absolutely not.

Claymation was developed,
five or... several years after I

worked with Bob
Gardiner... coined.

See, that wasn't hard.

Bob was
an incredibly creative artist,

somewhat mad,
somewhat delusional.

He was good with inspired ideas,
but he couldn't execute on them.

So you gotta give Will credit
that probably 'Closed Mondays'

got executed at all.

If it was up to Bob, that
film probably would never

have been made.

As much art as he put into it,
he needed someone to guide him

through actually
finishing something.

Will produced it... that's what
he did... and a lot of the stuff

you see there is Bob.

The stuff that
people go, "Ooo-oooo!"

That's Bob.

What was that guy thinking of?

Puh.

With most things in life,
there was a grain of truth to

some of it.

Was this just a really angry
guy who was making up all these

ideas about what had
happened in that relationship,

or was he really an aggrieved
creative who felt he didn't get

his due?

Portland's own
California Raisins are

back in the news again.

They have a new home video out,
and to give you an idea of how

good it's selling, it reached
platinum even before it hit

the stores.

One of the first productions we
did as an entertainment project

was a CBS prime time special
called 'Meet the Raisins!' and

it was done rockumentary
parody of 'Meet the Beatles.'

The California Raisins, these
four working class musicians

have risen from garden
variety band to pop phenomenon.

But what are the
roots of such genius?

From whence doth it spring?

First time I'd gotten
into prime time television.

It's a movie camera!

So do something.

We bear fortunate
witness to the youngsters'

discovery of tonal
resonance and harmony.

So far we had had anonymous
raisins in all of these spots,

and we wanted to kind of
create distinctive characters

for entertainment purposes, so
we created the California Raisin.

Band with...

A.C.,
Beebop, Stretch, and Red.

That four, you know?

The
show won a Prime time Emmy,

and that was a really, really
successful project in terms of

popularity, and in terms of
moving the Raisins to a new

level, which was just
pure music entertainment.

Upcoming projects
include a number of television

commercials, a music video...
That for reasons of secrecy we

can only say is
for a major pop star.

Will, I really need you

to call me.
This is very important.

Thank you, bye.

This is Michael calling again.

Please don't think
I'm being a nuisance.

Let's do something
here, be pioneers.

So thank you, bye.

Will, this is Scott Norton from

work, and um,
Michael Jackson just called.

Will, it's Michael calling.

Are you there?

Will?

Michael was a big fan.

He saw Will as a Disney
figure, and he was a big fan

of the work.

He got around
to saying how much he loved the

California Raisin commercials,
so I realized where he was

going, and I said, "Michael,
you should be a Raisin."

The rap raisins
materializing behind me.

I wanted to define the character
and find his expression,

which is 99 percent of it.

The one guy has the glasses,
and he has the type of attitude

that... he's so cool that
I'm fortunate that he's here.

And he's much too
cool for, like, one of these.

It's like, "What
you lookin' at?"

The other raisin
would be this style,

no glasses, so his eyes...
It's mostly the expression.

There's no way
these princes of produce are

going to rot.

They are one of the hottest
headliner acts in the country.

You may be wondering
who has the rights to

all that Raisin paraphernalia.

Well, it's the California
Raisins Advisory Board,

not Will Vinton.

This is the famous
blunder that he regretted,

where he didn't get a
portion of the licensing,

which nobody thought
was gonna be a big deal, really.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

We're talking about $400,000,000
in products that we could've had

a piece of.

Oooh, this is a
harbinger of things to come.

I can feel it.

It was really hard after a
while to pull people's teeth

and to work on the
next Raisin show because we had

already done that, and our
culture was built around,

you know, "Do
something different."

You know, "What else can we do?"

The studio was trying very
hard to create some intellectual

property of its own, and they
wanted to try and create their

own characters that they would
own all the merchandising on,

their own Mickey Mouse.

We
Have a character I'm very,

very fond of.

He's just been signed to a very,
very big role in a major feature

that we're developing right now,
and he and we are very excited

about that.

I'm invincible!

I feel like I could
climb every mountain!

The dream
behind Wilshire Pig was to be.

Will's Mickey Mouse.

Instead of Mickey Mouse
ears we had rubber pig noses.

Will
would used to say that Wilshire.

Pig was his alter ego.

You get offered five million
bucks to do a commercial,

and you turned it down?

There's the tycoon
element to that character.

He sort of like the
greedy capitalist.

That might be the way that he
thought of himself as Wilshire.

Pig, probably as not as the good
parts of himself but rather the

kind of dirty things he had to
do to find success at the level

that he found it.

He was building this idea of,
"If I create these characters...

Then after that I can make
a bunch of films with those

characters, and from that I
can make an amusement park."

The point of amusement
rides is not amusement.

The point of amusement
rides is making money!

Perfect!

They were
always trying to get the thing

that would make
the amusement park.

It's like he was
looking down a checklist,

and he was ticking off the
boxes of what he needed to

become Disney.

- Will Vinton.
- - the creator of Claymation...

Is now creating
Claymation Station,

a year-round entertainment park.

It would be on 15 to 20
acres behind Union Station,

serving as a depot to
transport people to real places,

to other worlds, and to the
far reaches of imagination.

There would be rides and
shops, a 3-D movie theater,

restaurants, a large hotel,
and motion picture studios.

Can Will Vinton
make it a success”?

Well, he's already
made raisins dance,

so who's to say his latest
brainstorm is pushing the

imagination too far?

Bob Gardiner
would call me in the middle of

the night from some ghost town
where he was doing tours of the

empty mining shafts.

He'd still complain about
Will Vinton and how he got

ripped off.

My dad kind of picked up this

day-job lifestyle.

It just kind of seemed
like him letting go.

He let go of his creativity.

He talked a lot about
Will, and that was it.

Good morning everybody,
and welcome to Portland,

Oregon for the Grand
Floral Parade which is

about to get underway.

Bob Gardiner
threatened to assassinate Will

Vinton at the Rose
Festival Parade.

Gardiner was gonna have a scope
rifle up on the top of the Meier.

And there he
is, you heard it through the

grapevine, folks.

That's Will Vinton, the
Grand Marshal of the parade.

Will... to
be safe... got the FBI to patrol

all the rooves of the buildings
along the parade route.

You've
certainly seen his work with the

California Raisins.

Looks like he brought a few
of his friends with him today.

For
something to do with cartoons,

it just seems
really out of whack.

Bob and I did a
wonderful thing together.

I wish that we could've both
cherished that into the sunset.

It's hard for me to talk
about it because it was such

a sad thing.

I knew that he
was in a lot of pain.

When I heard that he had,
uh, committed suicide, um...

I was...

I was... shocked.

I guess I... you
could say, but...

somehow strangely
not completely surprised.

I wished so much at that time
that I really could've helped to

celebrate who he
was as a person,

as an artist...

and tell him how sorry
I felt about the whole thing.

I went to help pack up his
stuff and being in his place...

Boxing everything...
Was really haunting,

looking at all the
stuff that he left out.

He had Marvin Gaye "Heard It
Through the Grapevine" sitting

open on his little piano.

That particular song

was this, like, goodbye to Will.

My dad's work will
always keep him alive.

I can always go back and
look through his writing.

I can look through his drawings.

I can watch 'Closed Mondays.'

The expressions through his
drawings or his animation,

you get to see him in that,
and so that's where the artist

is alive.

This is it... where
the rubber meets the road.

Wilshire Pig
and the licensable characters

weren't that
interesting to the animators.

What's that?

More talking animals

Warner Brothers and
Disney already covered

that pretty thoroughly.

Is there something
else we could do?

The
ideas just weren't progressing.

Test results... inconclusive.

Aw, dang!

Why does it keep
happening to me?

This should've worked!

People
just stopped giving a shit

because they were just so
disenchanted with what was

going on.

Important people
started to leave the studio.

It was reaching that point
where you finally realized how

much work you were doing, and
you weren't getting credit for

all the man hours
you were putting in.

He felt
it important... sometimes... to

overlook some of the credit that
should perhaps have been given

to many of the talented
people actually making the work.

He would actually say,
"It's Will Vinton Studios.

We're all successful," but I do
think he also had that personal

drive that he himself
wanted to be seen as the

driving creative force.

Certainly
Walt Disney did a great job of

forging that visionary
personalization of his own name

as a brand itself.

Hey Pluto, here she comes!

The general perception was Walt
Disney drew every comic book,

made every short film and
feature film... in fact the

studio perpetuated that myth.

Of course that's why
the signature is the logo.

He was an artist and
he signed his artwork.

But when the artist looks
at Walt Disney to emulate,

that usually doesn't
work out too well.

People resented that
he had these big goals,

and yet at the ground level
where we were working on stuff,

we just didn't
like it that much.

Here's some Raisin news
right off the press for you.

Starting this fall the
California Raisins will be added

to the Saturday
morning cartoon lineup.

Will Vinton will
produce the show.

It won't be done in
Claymation, but cel animation.

That really was
against our grain,

because it was Saturday morning,
because it really was kind of

for kids.

And so it was
less than a success.

Whenever you get
really successful...

We were kind of the
flavor of the month...

You go out of fashion.

Guess those wrinkled rockers
were just a flash in the pan.

They were saying,

"There's a lot of
Claymation on TV now,

and advertising agencies are
looking for something that looks

a little different."

You know, I
think we ought to...

I don't wanna put
it in the negative.

People had
always come to us for something

that was really
unique and creative,

but people were starting to
say we were all about raisins.

Suddenly there was this kind of
myopic sense about what we do as

filmmakers, and that was tough
for me... a double-edged sword,

as they say.

The whole Claymation look
had kind of run its course,

and it dropped out of style,
and the studios fell on pretty

hard times.

Despite our
limitations as artists,

and our foibles like not
wanting to lay anybody off,

period... which is just totally
a non-concept when it comes to

proper business... you
don't have the work,

get rid of people, you know,
it's the mantra... it wasn't

even considered.

They were having a really hard
time getting commercial work,

and there was very little
demand for what they were doing.

Will saw the logic in expanding
their look and style and tools.

When I
first picked up clay...

while the material was crude,
lumpy, didn't stand up straight,

rather quickly, I
could really see that the

possibilities were phenomenal.

I feel that we're in
exactly the same place

with computer animation.

Computer
animation was brand new.

There had yet to be a
computer-animated movie and

computer animation was
just kind of a novelty.

We really did
embrace the digital tools,

thinking this could
really bring some new energy,

some new life, some new ways
to bring to life characters.

One of the old-time advertisers
that wanted to move into the

digital world was M&M's.

It was a big campaign, and
a lot of production companies

jumped on it.

So we actually had to compete,
but then nobody thought of us as

a computer company at all,
as even having the tools.

And the truth is we
didn't really have the tools.

Our pitch to them was, "Anybody
can do the 3-D animation.

This is what we'd
like to see you doing.

Name them... Red, Yellow, Green,
Blue... give them character,

give them attitude,
give them backstories,

but above all just fill
them full of attitude."

I wanna be in this commercial.

You ain't getting this
job, 'cause you're not blue!

Great.

It's so cool
to see the exact same characters

that we pitched have
endured to this day.

M&M's are a huge story.

They came because Will had
successfully sold the image of.

Will Vinton as a creative force.

It's a really really important
pivot because that was a cash

cow and a proving ground for
what the studio could be and

became all throughout the '90s.

Everything
shifted during this time period.

They were
sticking in photographs.

They were making characters
out of cardboard flats.

They were experimenting with
all these different materials to

make stop-motion puppets
and different graphic looks.

Al, I'm wood.

What have I got to lose?

Oh, no!

In trying
all these different looks,

they really revitalized interest
in the studio and was pretty

successful again.

We kept getting more
and more accounts,

and they started
hiring people like crazy.

Most of the hiring that
they did was for full-time,

full-benefit staff positions.

It exploded in size.

Will was always
supposed to just have a small

group of artists
that love what they do,

and he loved what he did.

I don't think Will
was a businessman.

He was just more of a creator
and an artist and a guy with

ideas, and he had fun at it.

As
We grew the company,

it was becoming a little less
creatively satisfying for me.

I was doing a lot of stuff that
was not the things that excited

me about being an
artist, about being a creator,

so I was looking for more
creative things that I could do.

We have a special guest
tonight on Oregon Art Beat,

the man who made
Claymation a household word.

Casey is with Will Vinton.

That's right, I am.

Thank you very much, Mike,
and thank you for joining us.

Oh, a pleasure.

We've got some
tape that shows a little bit of

the process.

Why don't we roll that
tape so we can see it,

and you can kind of
narrate it as we go along.

What you
see here is Thurgood

who is in 'The PJs' which
is our television show.

What happened is, I
described what the guy was like,

what his personality was
like, and Will Vinton would go,

and he'd make up sketches.

Then once I looked at him, then
I'd come up with a voice that

looks like what he
would sound like.

Hello, projects!

I am the Reverend
Thurgood Stubbs.

I worked very closely
with Eddie to do the pilot,

and that was fun, and
that was really creative,

and that was me getting
my feet back into it.

I can't take this anymore!

I can't take it!

But not as satisfying for
for me personally as doing

my own thing.

What can we look
forward to seeing from you in

the future?

We have another show that'll be
launching called 'Gary & Mike'

that's gonna run on
Fox through the summer.

There ain't nothing but
open road from here on out.

We
Really scaled it up.

We did 13 half-hour
shows of 'The PJs'...

- Don't worry.
- I know exactly what I'm doing.

Eight of 'Gary & Mike'...

Good luck!

You're the one
who's gonna need it!

80 or 90 major commercials,
all in a year's time.

They also were
significant revenue generators,

but I was
definitely into a new mode.

I'm not the
filmmaker-entrepreneur at all.

It was kind of a beast with
a life of its own that didn't

really equal me so much anymore.

When you started, you
were a very small shop,

and now... I think you were
telling me... you have three

buildings in northwest Portland?

Yeah,
we have three buildings,

sometimes four.

And how
much of a staff now?

Well over 300
artists and animators and

staff-people.

Well, we'll be seeing lots
of you as the years go by.

Will, thank you so much for
joining us on Oregon Art Beat.

My pleasure.

'Toy Story'
made history last year as the

first
computer-generated feature film.

Joining me now,
Pixar's chairman and CEO,

Steve Jobs.

We're about putting
stories into the culture,

that's what we're...
We're about telling stories.

And you know...

I'm gonna come back and
interview you in five years and

find out you're in some other
business and you found some

other well to go fishing in?

You know, I tend to stay
where I start until somebody

kicks me out.

Steve Jobs seemed
to have an interest in us

as a television organization.

After quite a bit of due
diligence between the companies,

they came back and floated the
idea that Pixar would purchase

us and purchase all of
my stock for Pixar stock.

I'm going, "Well, what-
you know, okay, I'm sitting on

millions of shares of Will
Vinton Studios stock and there's

this company called Pixar,
so I'd be trading that for

millions of shares or
something of this Pixar stock,"

and basically just
rejected it out of hand.

Well, jump forward
about 10/15 years.

If I had taken that deal, I'd be
probably arguably be one of the

largest, maybe the
largest shareholder of Disney.

You've been a
businessman for many years.

Of sorts.

Why did you step
down as CEO in 1997

I really wanted to get back to
doing what I had always... what I

used to do, which was more
development and directing and

focus on that, on
the creative side.

I was really eager to
get back into being a director,

and I was kind of ready
to shed responsibility.

I ended up deciding that I
really did need to bring in a.

CEO that could come in and
handle the business side.

We actually came up with a
guy that I thought the world of

named Tom Turpin.

Tom Turpin
was a Gentleman's Quarterly

version of your
ideal CEO candidate.

He looked good, he
could say the right things,

he was always very
warm in a Hollywood way.

People were leery when Tom
Turpin started because he was

just this dashing,
charming, fast-talking guy.

And Will just loved him.

We were like, "The guy just
says whatever you want to hear."

Are you ready to make your
wildest dreams come true?

Of course you are!

I actually joined April 1st,
1997... April Fools Day...

And I dug it.

I just thought it
was a cool place, very cool.

The ad division was
really a cash cow,

and it really covered
a lot of the overhead,

so when the TV shows
came in, they started making

a lot of money.

We actually made a lot of money.

One of the things
that our CEO felt we should do

is raise capital.

Well, that's a completely
different concept than what we

had ever had.

You know, what are we
gonna do with this capital?

And of course the mantra was,
"You raise capital when you

don't need it."

Oh, okay, all right.

I think that
sounds right.

Take a look
at exhibit four, please.

Phil, I
couldn't think of a more

prestigious investor than that.

We reminded him of when he was
at the beginning of his career,

and there was
something fun in that for him.

Company like Nike is so big.
It just turns into a monster

business, and your
role changes, right?

He just remembered that
kind of entrepreneurial juice,

- and he saw it in us.
- - let's just do it.

For $5,000,000, Phil acquired
15 percent of the company.

I heard you got offered
five million bucks to do one of

those tennis shoe
ads, is that true?

Whoa, $5,000,000?

I still liked the idea
of getting in the feature

film business.

To
Move into features,

you need to have a
deep pocket behind you.

Pixar had Steve Jobs, and
now Vinton has Phil Knight.

I can't think
that any other business that

he's invested in is stayed.

It was totally out of
character for Phil to do that.

Knight had so much money. It was
going to be a great partnership.

Having built this
company, and 25 years later I

actually was looking at a kind
of exit strategy to slip into a

different role and allow me
the time to do my own projects.

I think that
Will's real dream was to be

making feature films.

Will Vinton Features
presents 'The Frog Prince.'

We've taken the timeless appeal
of the Brothers Grimm story and

made it into this
expansive, magical,

emotionally
engaging musical comedy.

He was so optimistic and
excited and enthusiastic about

everything that he did.

Not only were we gonna have
"Gary & Mike' and 'The PJs'

running, but we had three
pilots that were in production.

And at the same time, it was
looking like some of these

feature films were gonna
happen. 'Corpse Bride' started

to happen.

It felt like all of
Will's dreams were coming true.

Mr. Knight had been a
shareholder since 1998, correct?

Correct.

And he had been
very hands-off, hadn't he?

Yes, that's correct.

And his son had been an
employee from about that same

point in time, correct?

That was one of the things
that Phil wanted as part of that

first investment was for his
son to have employment there.

Phil Knight just said,
"I have a son who's in the

creative world.

He likes animation.
He's rapping now."

I Nikes on my
feet, kick your seat'

Although he's got his
own state-of-the-art recording

studio and indoor
tennis and basketball courts,

all this millionaire homeboy
really wants is to have his very

own posse.

I mean what's your response to
the kind of support or lack of

support you've
had from Portland?

A lot of people have
a problem with me just because

they think I'm tryin' to front
or tryin' to fake or tryin' to

be Black or whatever.

Think I'm tryin' to
be something I'm not.

So you're kind of
like a homeboy without a posse

in a way.

Yeah pretty much.

Any young person, especially
any young son of a really

successful wealthy person, it's
a struggle to find an identity,

and Will hasn't
wished to be a great rapper.

But he found his niche and he
went to work for the company

that his dad's invested in.

He
Started like everybody started.

You don't need to know anything.
Come and sweep the floors,

see if you like it.

Will and I thought the best way
to support Travis is not to tell

anybody that Phil
Knight's his dad.

I don't think anybody
knew for three years.

To Travis's credit,
he seemed to really,

really love the animation
and took to it right away.

What are your goals
or plans as far as Travis's

involvement in the company?

Well they're not my
plans. They're his plans,

that essentially his
plan is to be an animator.

That's what he loves doing.

He doesn't have management
ambition at the present time.

He doesn't even want to be a
director at the present time.

He wants to be an animator,
which he's very good at.

Will's
enthusiasm was the company's

greatest asset and
probably the greatest danger.

Both Tom Turpin and Will Vinton
were just raving and so excited

about what was happening.

And there were all
these dreams and goals,

but they never
seemed to have a plan B.

You know, what are you
gonna do if it doesn't happen?

He's like, "It'll happen.”

When Tom Turpin came in, it
became a very corporate place.

The whole structure... the
feeling... was different.

I would say it was a
completely different company.

The "MBA" approach to CEO is
as all-powerful management,

we know best.

- Why was Mr.
- Turpin's contract not renewed?

Primarily because
of his performance.

As Tom's policies
began to take effect,

we started losing money and
started spending an awful lot

of money.

Tom Turpin
wasn't making great decisions.

A lot of money was being thrown
in a lot of stupid places.

There's the legend of the
million dollar escalator.

They had rented two levels
of an office in an LA to look

impressive as they were
seducing and wooing studios.

Tom had the great idea to put
in an escalator between the two

floors because it would
be a dramatic entrance,

sort of like going up the
escalator to creative heaven at.

Will Vinton's
Hollywood swanky pad.

When was
'The PJs' cancelled?

It was the early part of 2001.

What was the name of the
other television series?

'Gary & Mike.'

And when did it
cease being on TV?

I believe it was right
around the same time.

TV
Shows get cancelled.

These TV shows were like
two-thirds of our revenue...

$10,000,000-a-year projects...
And then if they go away it's

like, "Boom,
$10,000,000 is gone."

- The pilots... one by one.
- - don't get picked up,

and then the feature films
they've been talking about,

none of those come to fruition.

And then everything
started to come apart.

How would you describe the
financial condition of Will

Vinton Studios during
the spring of 2002?.

It was
struggling, not good.

We have
to support all these people,

and suddenly your
money-making machine stops,

but you're
still spending money,

you're literally bleeding money.

If it had been Hollywood,
it would have been a totally

different deal, because all of
these guys would have been on

contract... they would have been
temporary workers... and the

minute the work went
away, they would be gone.

Was it in that context that the
company approached Phil Knight

about a possible
additional investment?

Yes.

He had an army of really smart
business people putting together

the contracts to
protect his investment.

There were stacks
like this of contracts,

you know, that I
didn't even read,

you know, when we
probably signed up the thing.

When you want a loan, there's
only one person you need to

see...

The Brains.

It was not an
investment I wanted to make.

It was not a good
economic investment,

in my view.

Will Vinton seemed to me to
be trying to commit suicide for

the company.

He thought that Phil Knight
would be a benign benefactor who

knew the shoe business.

I remember Will saying to
me, "There's no business like

shoe business."

I was aware of the fact
that if we had a downturn,

that he would be able to
take certain kind of control.

But we'd been
profitable 23 years out of 25,

so what was I worried about?

Do you remember him telling
you that if he was to make an

additional investment, that he
would drive a very hard bargain?

Yes.

- Do you think Mr.
- Knight drove a hard bargain?

Sure, absolutely.

He was driving a
very hard bargain, correct?

That's correct.

Could I get a little
more water, or... could I?

Phil Knight versus
Will Vinton was sort of like the

great white
shark versus a guppy.

Will must've been somewhat

blindsided, or maybe didn't
understand that Phil Knight

would play hardball with him.

Were you aware at the time you
signed the employment agreement

that it authorized your
termination without cause?

Sure.

Did you have an understanding
what "without cause" meant?

Um, a basic
understanding, I guess.

Did you understand that
it meant any reason or no reason

at all?

Now we're
into some really heavy-duty

business stuff.

The company's losing money,
and we had a lot of commitments.

They were
hemorrhaging money like crazy.

In business, the best deals
are kind of win-win deals.

That's not the way
they liked to play.

If somebody's winning,
that means you're losing.

Phil Knight slowly
started taking possession.

He acquired a lot of it
without Will knowing about it.

Phil Knight soon had a
majority of the stock.

Why were you
interested of taking voting

control of the company?

I had to get
something for my investment.

If it had just been the
economics of the situation,

I would never have done it.

But I had a son that worked
there that loved the company,

that loved his job, loved
the people he worked with,

had a chance to work with Tim
Burton... who's probably the

ultimate in terms of
animation, creative,

respect, and talent... and I
concluded that I would try and

keep the company alive.

Why on earth did you
not just say thank you?

At this point in time,
had you resigned yourself to the

fact that your days were
numbered at Will Vinton Studios?

I really couldn't believe
that would be an outcome of

this business.

Nobody in their right mind
would lay off the founder of the

company and the rainmaker
for most of the business,

except somebody who had other
motives and some deep pocket to

back it up and go
somewhere else with it.

It was clear that Phil had made
up his mind that he was going to

take that company.

Fools!

Were you terminated
from your employment at Will

Vinton Studios?

Yes, I was.

What is the factual basis for
your assertion that Phil Knight

wanted to take control of this
company to turn the company over

to Travis Knight?

Well, the fact that
Phil requested Travis's

employment way back.

The fact that Travis stayed
a part of the organization,

you know, the Chilly
Tee fiasco happened.

Which I suspect that this was a
little more compatible way to

use money to get
into the business.

Heck, it's hard to imagine
any other motivation,

to be frank.

There
are these issues of nepotism.

There are these issues of,
"Did Phil Knight take advantage

of Will?"

This collision of Phil Knight
and Will Vinton... creativity

versus commerce...
They were at odds,

and...

Will came out the
loser of that battle.

You're aware that
you're entitled to a termination

payment, correct?

Yes.

You got the $50,000, correct?

That's correct.

You never got the
$150,000, isn't that right?

That's correct.

And that's because one of those
conditions was that the 'Corpse.

Bride' contract be
signed, correct?

Yes.

Was it only coincidental that
the 'Corpse Bride' contract was

signed the day after Mr.
Vinton's was terminated?

Yes.

He walked
away with $50,000 for a lifetime

of artistic and
creative struggle.

That's ridiculous.

There was
no need to do that mean stuff.

They took Claymation, the
name... they took everything.

They didn't need to do that.

I think that's
really "poor paper,"

as my grandma would say.

Are you happier today that
you are no longer employed by

that company?

I absolutely did not
want to leave that company.

And you have told the public
or people that you are happier

today that you're no
longer employed by the company.

How could I be happy about
having left the company that I

built, that I am so close to?

It was like a family, and I had
my entire net worth wrapped up

in that company.

I...

My...

Yeah.

That's all
I have for today!

He just didn't know
what was happening,

and his studio was just gone.

The next thing I know,

Vinton Studios
belongs to Travis Knight,

and that between
Travis and his father Phil,

it's Laika.

It's the little
studio that could... Laika...

The CEO of the
company is Travis Knight.

He joins us now
from Portland, Oregon.

Something just evolved.

It was an opportunity that
came up that I... you know,

who would think you
could actually make a living

doing this?

It does not seem like
it's a plausible life plan,

but it's
something I always loved.

And when I had the... when the
opportunity was presented to me,

I took it... I took, you know,
grabbed it and ran with it.

So was
Laika the opportunity,

or was there another
thing before that?

No, I was... I worked at another
animation house before then.

Travis... by all accounts... is
a talented guy and transcended

any sort of talk that this
was all about finding sonny

boy a job.

It's just
sad that Will was able to take

his dream to a certain point
and was not able to go to that

next level.

Somebody else took it there.

For Will to
build it up to this point where

it got as big as it
was ever gonna get,

and then ka-blooey,
then lose the thing.

How could he build all this up
and then it gets taken away?

It goes
back to the Disney thing.

It's great that
he had that dream,

but he couldn't do it.

It's sort of this Disney
ghost that haunted him.

I was all broken up
after he got let go,

and I went to see him at
a little farewell party.

He said, "I just feel relief."

He said, "I've been so worried
about how I'm gonna pay the

bills, how I'm gonna keep
these people employed.”

We hopped
in his motorboat and zoomed into

Portland up the
Willamette from his house.

I'm like, "Dude, you're cut."

And he's just like, in his motorboat,

and I'm like, "Man, clearly
this guy... the worst things can

happen to this guy and
he's gonna bounce back."

He
Was never vengeful.

He was certainly
never self-pitying.

And I remember him taking a
fair amount of responsibility.

He made mistakes. Yeah,
he made some bad mistakes.

But the beauty is, when men get
older and they've lost lovers,

friends,
businesses, they get humble,

and then the best
of them comes out,

and the best of what it
means to be a father.

I did
get to see him a lot more.

There was a transformation
emotionally in him.

He knew better than
ever that family was

the most important thing.

Okay, so spell
your last name for me.

V-I-N-T-O-N.

Spell your first name.

Seeing if I can spell, or what?

- I gotta do it for the bracelet.
- W-I-L-L-I-A-M.

Actually it bothers me to
see needles on somebody else,

or even my dog.

God, I about passed out
one time when I took my dog

in for something.

I was gonna say, this
has never bothered you.

How are
you feeling today?

Kinda
sluggin' around a little bit.

You have a
transfusion today, right?

Uh, tomorrow.

Okay,
any pain today?

A little in the back.

Any change in
medications since we saw

you last?

- Maybe dropped the...
- I'm a little confused

I've got a lot of doctors.

Pointer...

So yeah, you
won't be as short

of breath after
that transfusion.

Have you had a
transfusion before?

Yeah, just... yeah.

Not that long ago.

You're... hang on,
you are a pioneer,

and I'm excited to say that
we're giving you our lifetime

achievement award.

Thank you everybody.

I think most of you know, Will
Vinton Studios was acquired by

Phil Knight, and subsequently

the name was
changed to Laika.

There are those out there who
think that I should not be very

comfortable with that.

So I'm gonna
set the record straight,

um, right here.

The truth is... you know... I
couldn't be more pleased that

under such strong
financial leadership,

that Laika has been able to
continue to grow and really

expand on the
world of stop-motion.

Need a... need the cigar.

For me, all of
this activity, I feel like a

proud father, or bastard
father in this filmmaker scene.

Michele!

Oh Will, thank you.

And that's
been a continually gratifying

aspect of this
company that we created.

But what pushes me and gets
me excited are... frankly... my

own projects.

See something else come
to life in a new way.

One that I'm extremely excited
about is this musical project

called 'The Kiss.'

I'm not a puppeteer but there's
a lot of time that a frog spends

just sitting there.

And that's one of their
charms is that they're just

sitting there.

And frogs are... real
frogs, when they move,

they're sudden a lot.

You know, they hop or
they move or something,

and then their back end
is completely still again.

It's an
idea that he was working on when

he was at the studio... 'The
Frog Prince'... that he wanted

to do as a feature film.

Now he's metamorphosing that
to now he sees it as a musical.

It's really
about all the things we've been

talking about.

It's about characters and
stories and entertainment,

about music.

It's about comedy.

It's about great conflicts
that characters have to face.

As long as I'm alive, I'm
gonna keep making things.

I just love it.

I don't know what else to do.

It's just great fun.

It's just great, great fun.

The condition I have... it's
multiple myeloma... is a blood

cancer... blood and bone.

And I've sort of done in the
past is ignored and not talked

about health issues.

And if you don't talk about
it, people don't pick up on it,

and so a lot of people... even
good friends... might not even

know that I have this condition.

If you did
mention it to somebody,

suddenly that was everything.

It's all anybody talked about,
and it's all anybody asked you

about, and so forth.

There are so many more things
I'd rather have them ask me

about, like
how's... like, you know...

about the lead
character in 'The Kiss...'

you know, how
does he really...

Is he really the captain of the
football team who's been

handicapped by being a frog?

I mean, that's fascinating,
that's good stuff to talk about

to me, but...

during a lot of that
time, I forget about it myself.

Can't forget about it now
because I'm kind of into it

intensely with
this new treatment,

so we'll see how that goes.

I've been a regular
for a long time, so...

I think that Will becoming
very ill with this secret,

internal disease and having a
company that is also sick at the

same time with internal strife,
we don't know if those two

things are related, but
it feels like they are,

doesn't it?

What would it have been like
if he had been able to say,

"I'm scared to death”
or "I'm really angry?"

If I could go back in
time, I'd shake him,

and I'd say, "Tell me know you
really feel about all of this."

- Bye, Will.
- Bye-bye!

- Have a great week.
- See you, thanks.

You're welcome.

Dying
was very confusing for him.

He would say, "If
only this was easier,

if only I knew
kind of what to do."

- I'm gonna cry.
- I miss him.

He's my friend.

Thank you, Mr. Will...

for everything.

Everything
I've done is a build.

There's
something that I've built,

one thing on top of the other.

I love being able to feel
like my life is a continuum.

That things that maybe felt like
they might have been missteps

was not at all a misstep.

Will
was an amalgam of all

of his characters.

It's almost as though you took
all that clay and you squished

it back together in a
big multicolored ball,

you'd have Will with his big
white mustache and his smile and

his blue eyes.

His work... every time
someone discovers it...

That pure childhood glee
and knowing that there's magic.

There absolutely is magic.

One of the
coolest things about being an

artist is the thought that you
can create some of these things

and it can go on and
live way beyond you.

It's all such an intense web of
human life and human existence.