Casting By (2012) - full transcript

This documentary focuses on the role of the casting director in movie making and particularly on Marion Dougherty. She began work in the late 1940s sending up and coming young actors to be cast in the then new medium of television. It wasn't until the 1970s that the contribution on casting directors was recognized in film credits and even today there is no Oscar awarded for that role in filmmaking.

More than 90 percent

of directing a picture

is the right casting.

I've gotta thank

Ellen Lewis for her casting,

and so much of this

belongs to the cast.

Ellen is like

the main collaborator.

There's no way I can make the

film without working together.

There's an honesty

and a trust there

as to what I need.

It's gonna be

a good summer.

[laughing]

My job is to have

a rapport and a creative rapport

with the director.

Try to create their vision.

When I've directed,

I've relied very much

on the casting director's input.

Amanda's always out there

with the feelers

for new actors that I never

even might've heard of.

I can't hear.

My job is to find

the right people

to tell the story,

to embody the story.

Juliet I've had a chance

to work with closely for years.

She's always looking

and not settling.

You know, I'm quick to settle.

Casting directors are

counted on to have

a point of view,

to really participate

as sort of partners

in the process.

In the old studio days,

casting was very different.

Casting directors were just

sort of organizers.

They would just come in

with long grocery lists of ideas

with no particular

point of view.

My whole organization thinks

I've gone a little nuts

to sign you.

Studios had actors

under contract.

So they used their

own contract players.

Doris Day was under contract.

Whether this part

was right for her or not,

that's the way it was.

Casting directors didn't

have agency or power.

It was not the way

it is today at all.

Marion Dougherty raised

the stock of casting directors

in the film business.

She took an existing profession

and made it her own.

There's so many things

I picked up from Marion

that have been passed on

from generation to generation.

Everything about what I do

came from part

of that lineage.

I learned from Marion

to trust my instincts.

That was just a great gift.

You can not separate

the work of somebody

like Marion Dougherty

from what the final outcome

of the film is.

It's just impossible.

It's staggering

to look down that resume

and just go film

after film after film

that are seminal pieces

of American culture.

She owned that position

of casting she was in.

She set a standard

for a certain quality.

She had a very clear idea

about things.

She was right about

an awful lot of things

that people couldn't see.

She could see what

people couldn't see.

You're humbled by someone

who sees something in you

before you even see

it in yourself.

When people say,

"How do you cast?"

I always tell them,

"Gut reaction."

I just feel somebody

is right for a part,

and it has...

fortunately worked out

very well.

This was Christopher Plummer's

first job in the United States.

This is

"The Dashing White Sergeant."

There's Christopher.

And this is our friend

Jimmy Dean

who was pretty relaxed

in my office one day.

Most important for

a casting director

is for them to love actors

and be interested in them.

In college,

I got a taste for acting,

but I heard stories

about how hard it was

to get a job acting.

So...

I didn't know what to do.

I decided to come

to New York.

I got a job designing

windows for Bergdorf Goodman

until a friend of mine

from college got a job

as the casting director

on Kraft.

He hired me

as his assistant.

I knew nothing

about casting at all

or anything about Kraft.

In the late '40s,

TV was just getting started.

Mostly it was based

in New York.

Kraft was one of the first,

dramatic, live anthologies.

They were taking plays,

and they were turning those

into hour-long dramas.

They could be done live.

They didn't need a lot

of elaborate production.

After about four months,

I took over casting the show.

I went to the theater

to find actors.

It was the beginning

of the Off-Broadway

and the Off-Off-Off-Broadway.

The New York actors

were trained actors

who had worked

with the right teachers.

They were developing

a new kind of acting

that stressed inner being,

emotional truth.

I went under the GI Bill

to the Neighborhood Playhouse.

Meisner only believed

in the imagination.

I'd just wake up

and just go on stage

with that I had

from the day.

Marion Dougherty

was finding great theater actors

used to creating characters

as opposed to the star making

system that existed

in Hollywood at that time.

Hollywood had no idea

what casting was all about.

They looked at the list,

and they would pick

one from column A

or column B

and seeing who had played

a good doctor before,

so we'll have him

play a doctor again.

The old Hollywood

was always about typing.

You looked for type,

because type was money.

Then they could use it

in film after film.

They used what

people looked like physically

to define the characters.

They gave them

a good looking over.

"Can we fix the nose?"

"Can we fix the teeth?"

Last on the list,

"Can we teach them to act?"

They were looking

for movie stars,

movie stars,

not actors.

I was under contract

with Universal

for $75 a week.

Actually, you could buy

things in those days for that.

I was there for

a year and a half

and did a lot

of bit parts.

My name is John Lucas.

For the last time,

I don't want your mail service.

They had a little school

that gave you dancing lessons,

elocution lessons,

took photographs.

I'd go to drama

classes at night,

and you could

ride horses.

That was the great

part of it.

I had a dance teacher.

It was fun.

And then they gave you

a report card.

Thinking back on it,

it was kind of hysterical.

There was always

a distinction between

a New York actor

and an actor out in LA.

If you went to New York,

you were more serious about it,

and you wanted to do plays.

And those were the kind

of actors Marion

would've been looking for

and finding in those days

for live television.

Introducing Warren Beatty.

Warren Beatty was

22 years old

when I put him

in a Kraft show.

It was early on

when the Actor's Studio

was very hot,

and everybody was trying

to sound like Brando.

His agent called me up

after and said,

"How did he do?"

I said, "Well..."

I tell ya, this morning,

I'm just flying.

Roy Nicholas,

[unintelligible].

Gee, I can imagine.

Pull her up, Mrs. Hardwick,

we'll fill her up

compliments of the house.

I could understand

about every third sentence.

Well, did you ever

know anybody that

smelled this nice,

[unintelligible].

I would say, "He should

forget Brando and do

his own thing."

And I really thought

they would tell me

that I shouldn't be

a casting person anymore.

We all were beginning

to learn our craft at that time.

They had new writers

and new directors.

Television really was

the training ground.

It was a terrific pressure,

because what went out

on the air was it.

It was like opening

night of a play all the time.

See, you have

to prepare the actors,

prepare the cameras.

Give me the wide shot,

give me the wide shot!

Compose it, compose it!

Come into three!

That's beautiful.

I would be casting

one show while the next show

was in rehearsal.

And I was always afraid

that I might send

the actor to the wrong place.

It was a very exciting time.

And Marion gave

a lot of very important actors

their first jobs.

I thought James Dean

was very talented

and very right for this part.

And the first day

of rehearsal,

the director called me,

and he said,

"He was late and inattentive.

Get me somebody else."

And I said,

"Oh, can I talk to him first?"

So, I had him come

in that day.

Sat him down.

And I gave him

my Dutch uncle talk.

I know I did something

that was very wrong.

I know that.

And I'm not excusing

myself for it.

I said, "I'll call the director

and tell him not

to recast this part."

The next day,

the director called me.

He said, "He was just fine.

And you're right,

he's very talented."

It was the beginning

of guiding people

towards the right

actor for the job.

There were few doing

what Marion did,

very few.

This is Jimmy Dean's head.

And I really did

get this many pictures.

That's Jack Lemmon to the left.

That's Anne Francis

and Rod Steiger.

All of 'em got their

Hollywood contracts

through being

on a Kraft Television show.

In the eight years

that I did Kraft,

I never got a credit.

And I did over

500 pictures, I guess.

There was never

a word about casting.

Marion Dougherty

was responsible for bringing

a lot of wonderful

New York actors

to the series.

It's better than

being a passenger, Joey.

I am a passenger.

I was like a kid

in a candy store.

I was so frightened,

I nearly went out of my mind.

You had your choice

of all these wonderful actors.

Jackie had the feeling first.

He's my kid brother,

so I...

I dismissed it.

Because it was shot

in New York

in real locations

on the streets,

exactly the same

aesthetic was applied

to the actors.

The looks didn't

matter so much.

It was just about

having that sort of spark

or that talent.

She was once a great woman.

She was gonna be in opera,

and she used to take lessons.

And we used to go

to her house and listen to her.

Robert Duvall was

not handsome,

but he was attractive.

He could be a bad guy.

He could be a good guy.

Once upon a time...

there was a type.

Marion was aware

of what actors could do,

their range.

Now, could we agree

on that at least?

She would engage

in casting against type.

Ah, you've only got

to look at me, miss.

After all, I'm not

growing any younger, you know.

She also cast for chemistry.

Abby.

What did you do

this to me for, George?

I must say,

in terms of bringing in actors,

I just say,

thank you, Marion, thank you.

When I would

meet actors,

I would bring them in

and talk to them.

I would ask them

where they learned acting.

What their animals were.

If I thought they were

right for a part,

then I would read them.

I would keep

the three by five card.

I would put down

anything that hit my mind.

I'd put down,

"has eyes like Aunt Reba."

And I knew what that meant,

because Aunt Reba

was very elegant

and sort of snooty.

"He was 6'2".

Saw him Off-Broadway."

My city editor told me

distinctly that there was

a wall in there,

something...

in between us.

"His reading was nothing.

But I believe he could

be very good,

especially as a gentle,

big, dumb, nice guy."

Marion understood

that even if they give

a bad audition and maybe

don't do well in a role,

you have to see

their potential.

Well at one point,

Marion said,

"I'll get you

a job, Jon.

I'll get you a job."

Well this is...

I hadn't done anything

very much in film,

so it'd have to be somebody who

took a chance really.

Who would do a thing like that?

She had this "Naked City."

It wasn't a big role.

But I had

a big emotional scene.

And by the time they

came in for my close up,

I had nothin' left.

I was completely dry.

It don't make sense.

I didn't understand

protection of your performance.

Didn't know how to do it.

Where were the police?

They're probably out

taggin' some guy

who was five minutes

over parked.

Come on.

It wasn't real.

It was forced.

He was pushing,

and it wasn't there yet.

He was an actor in training.

I thought, "This is it.

It's the end of the road.

You know, I'm never

gonna get another job."

I was so bad, I got almost

physically sick watching it.

So, I sat down to write

Marion Dougherty a letter

saying, "I'm sorry, Marion.

You believed in me,

and I let you down

and all of this.

And please don't stop

believing in...

in young people."

I felt this responsibility

to a generation,

and not only just

for myself.

I must've written

several--six letters, maybe.

But I ripped them up,

I couldn't send them.

Dusty and I had a place.

He had the bottom floor,

I had the top floor.

I told Marion about him.

I said, "This guy's got talent.

He's gonna be something."

Robert said he had been

in theater for seven years,

but he'd never been

in front of a camera.

So, Dustin came in one day,

and I gave him

about three pages

of the script.

You know, any guy

that gets his jollies

out of wearing

a cop uniform

needs a new head,

if you ask me.

Get him outta here!

I said, "You have the job."

And he said, "Oh, well now,

who do I have to see?"

And I said, "You don't have

to see anybody."

After that,

Marion came up to me

and she said,

"In your off time,

maybe you'd like to become

a casting director with me."

She offered me the chair, 'cause

I brought her good people.

Now, Marion had

the two television series,

one in New York and another

all over the country.

So, the logistics

of casting these two shows

was incredible.

Marion was in New York

finding the actors.

She had control

over that process.

Did anyone bring

the Pacific to Balboa?

Never even laid

a hand on her,

but she started running.

What do I care?

Go head and clobber

him with an ax

if you feel like it.

I arrived in Boston,

and the cast had been set.

I arrived in Baltimore,

the cast had been set.

You know, you just don't

look at a script

and all of a sudden

an actor is there.

You have to start negotiating,

find actors that will work

in the price range.

So, casting two shows

was remarkable,

but delivering the kind

of people to the set

that she did was sensational.

Marion Dougherty understood

what was happening here.

There was a vacuum,

and she was filling it.

There was a job to be done,

and she was doing it.

She took control

and made herself the key player.

[typewriter clicking

The Director's Guild said

you can not be called

casting director,

'cause you're not a director.

You can't use that word.

The reality is,

you're not a director,

and we take exception

to being called directors.

You're a casting person.

You're casting by, but I do not

call them directors,

'cause they're not.

[phone ringing]

I'll be right down.

The director was always

the person that led

a collaboration of talents.

In the beginning,

nobody was giving

any respect

to this process,

and so, the directors

got together and said,

"We need to form

a guild to protect everybody."

They were basically saying

there's one director

on the set.

The director of photography's

not a director.

He's a cinematographer.

The casting director

is not a director.

They're working in conjunction

with a director.

That fight happened,

and you still called

the DP the DP.

Although, I don't accept that.

They're not directing anything.

I believe that a director

has the creative vision,

and that if you wanna

share that title

with someone else,

they should be running the set.

Those other people don't.

In the 1950s,

the studios were beginning

to undergo

their ultimate collapse.

They were dropping

all the contract players,

myself included.

It changed the whole...

dynamic of the business.

Now, the casting director

wasn't provided by the studio,

so there was suddenly

an opening there

for a profession.

In the mid-50s,

I decided to open

my own independent

casting office.

I would spend the days

just meeting new actors,

all of these great talents.

Like Marion Dougherty

in New York,

I was casting hit shows.

Gunsmoke!

They were the number

one and two shows in television.

I was really turned on by

bringing a fresh look

to characters.

[phone ringing]

One day,

the phone rings.

"Mr. Stalmaster, I'm calling

for Mr. Robert Wise."

Mr. Robert Wise.

Rosebud.

He edited "Citizen Kane."

He's one of the great

directors in Hollywood.

He says, "How would

you feel about casting

a film where you'd

show me actors who looked like

the actual characters

in the true life story

of Barbara Graham?"

And I said,

"Oh, that'd be a dream."

He says, "Let's do it!"

Susan Hayward was already cast.

But everyone else

were all new faces to film.

I'd like to spread you out

and stamp you into the ground.

So, it had a verisimilitude.

The truth that

he wanted to achieve,

it was powerful.

Now, that opened

the door to United Artists,

and from there,

I bounced from one

Academy Award director

to the next.

All right, now, steady.

We all liked to work

with United Artists

simply because they

left us alone.

That's your new arrival?

What is it,

a boy or a girl?

You're not goin' out there.

Well, to look it,

I'm not.

United Artists

funded independent filmmakers.

They had total control

of the movie,

had final cut

of the movie

as long as they stayed

within the budget

and didn't change

the content of the material.

And it enabled us

to attract, you know,

the best filmmakers.

"The World of Henry Orient"

was submitted to us

by George Roy Hill.

As always,

Marion Dougherty

was the casting director

on George Roy Hill movies.

It represented

the kind of independent,

creative filmmaking that Marion

was very much a part of.

By that time,

television went west.

Then I went

straight into film,

and I ain't never been back.

For the movie "Hawaii,"

Marion spent

a year in Asia casting it.

And the lengths she went

to to get that right

was really kind of

extraordinary.

George Roy Hill was

directing the picture,

and he wanted true Polynesians.

It is blessed, everyone,

we serve God.

I went to all the islands,

Tahiti and Tonga.

I was living in Hawaii.

Marion and George Roy Hill

came to the community theater.

A bunch of us were asked

to go sign up for it,

and so we did,

and we were very young.

I think I must've been

about 18 or 19,

somethin' like that.

I said, "Bette,

you're not very Polynesian.

And there aren't

any parts left

except for the missionaries."

It was open auditions.

And I think my girlfriend

and I sang a song for them,

and I think they kinda

perked up.

And I said, "If you'll wear

a bonnet so that it sort of

covers your face, and you

don't look too Jewish in it,

which would not be right

for one of the missionaries,

I think we can do it."

I will bring evil

on these people,

because they have not

harkened unto to my words

nor my law.

It was a huge show.

Julie Andrews was there.

Max von Sydow,

and I met Gene Hackman.

It was hard work.

They were shooting

way, way, way out

in the middle of nowhere.

And, you know,

I was very poor.

So, we were living

hand to mouth,

we hardly ate anything,

just so we could save our money

so that we could

make the big break,

and we could get off

the rock,

and we could go

to New York City.

But, it was not easy.

They had the premiere.

And George and I

were walking the red carpet.

All of a sudden,

this girl took me

by the sleeve and said,

"I'm in New York!

What you paid me

for the movie

is how I had enough

money to come to New York!"

If it hadn't been

for that job,

I don't think

I would've made it.

I have Marion Dougherty

to thank for that.

And it was...

I never forgot her.

I found a brownstone

on East 30th Street.

It was a total wreck.

We redid the whole house

and had it just charming.

I remember how proud

she was of it

and how sweet it was.

It was interesting,

because it was a house.

It was a home,

I should say.

It was a warmer feeling,

because it was that setup.

In 1968,

I got a job

as Marion's assistant.

She only would hire women.

It's a nurturing element.

We're there, in a way,

to serve, often a man.

I mean, I'm kidding

around a little bit,

but we're really there

to help somebody else's vision,

to make it right.

Marion was very generous

spirited to the girls

that worked for her.

We were all young.

She gave me

the responsibility to cast.

She did not have

an ego like that.

She ran this townhouse

in such a gracious way

that we often used

to liken it to a brothel.

It was beyond belief

what was going on in that house.

It was this vortex

of the movie business.

It was a charming place

to do casting,

a far cry from

the casting we would do

in offices prior to that.

Marion had bedrooms

upstairs that she

would lease out.

There was some would-be

screenwriter.

He was living

in my office

on a couch that pulled

out as a bed at night.

He'd leave his bike

right in this narrow hallway

which drove me insane.

He turned out

to be Steve Tesich,

and he was writing

his first screenplay,

"Breaking Away,"

which won an Oscar.

And we had Tom Spratley

who was an ancient

character actor living

in the furnace room.

There was a cat

that Marty Scorsese

was allergic to.

It didn't bother me too much.

I got--I had very

bad asthma at the time.

There was a manager

downstairs in the basement

who had these whacky clients,

Carol Kane,

Christopher Walken,

Sissy Spacek, Diane Keaton,

and they were all kinda

floating around the house.

I mean, it was madness.

But the directors loved it.

Marion got all the phone calls.

There would always be

a little article or two

about films that were

going to shoot in New York.

And usually we would get that,

"I'm sorry.

Marion Dougherty's

casting the movie."

This woman was

the goddess of casting.

A little contribute, no.

A big contribute, yes.

I only knew I wasn't white.

And you wouldn't

let me be black.

America, man, you know,

it's so beautiful.

I wanna eat it.

The patient in the holding room,

you want his Blue Cross number,

you go in, and you get

his Blue Cross number.

Marion was extremely

instrumental in creating

what they called

the New York look of movies.

She would use actors

that had a very kind of

a bold look

or personality.

I'm Mr. Mansfield,

your father.

Now, where's he at?

A very distinctive,

off-beat thing that would

give you a sense

of the location.

Let me have a double

on an onion roll,

half brisket, half pastrami,

pickles, sour tomatoes,

no sauerkraut, my stomach's

acting up today.

I began to notice

Marion Dougherty's

beautifully cast films.

She introduced so many

New York actors to film.

Many of them,

I was able to bring and do

a film here in California.

For God's sake,

can you imagine my parents?

Can you imagine what

they would say if they

just saw us here

in this room right now?

Originally,

for the role of Benjamin,

we brought in all the young

actors who met

the description in the book.

They're thinking

for this lead they might

like really good-looking,

conventional

sort of movie star types.

We imagined everybody

big and blonde.

You tested Redford

and Candy Bergen.

God, you noticed

they were beautiful.

It was more blonde

than a human should

ordinarily be asked

to accept.

But, nothing worked.

Mike wasn't happy.

I wasn't happy.

So I experimented.

Fortunately I matured

with my neuroses intact.

That's what makes me

so fascinating.

I was supposed to see

Nichols the next day,

But then I heard,

"Mike can't see you tomorrow

because he's

flying to New York

to meet an actor

named Dustin Hoffman."

Oh no.

I said to Nichols, "I did not

think I was right for the role."

He's kind of Anglo-Saxon,

tall, slender,

good looking chap.

And he said,

"And you're Jewish."

And I said, "That's right."

Short and Jewish.

He says, "Well,

inside Benjamin Braddock

is short and Jewish."

I warned you about that.

I'm 29 years old.

I came here at the age

of 21 with great hope.

Mike said, "Dustin

has a sweetness...

that I want

in the character."

He knew to not

get locked in

to what is written

on the page.

You have to be open-minded

and not...thinking

in a stereotype,

but what will be honest

in this character?

Dustin is a different

kind of leading man.

Everything was shifting

in American culture.

Finally, the studio system,

with all its glamour

had really collapsed

and it was gone.

People wanted

something different.

I remember watching

"The Graduate" thinking,

"How did all of this

come together?"

Mostly watching the actors.

-Shall I get the cops?

-What?

I'll get the cops.

My wife and I are

getting divorced soon.

Yes, I mean you.

[hysterical laughing]

I don't believe it.

It is chock full

of interesting actors.

Plastics.

After "The Graduate",

everybody knew

Lynn Stalmaster's name.

And he was sort of

famous after that.

There was my name

in the main title

on a separate card.

"Casting by Lynn Stalmaster"

It was just one of the most

moving moments of my life.

Well, you deserved

a separate card.

Well that appreciation,

though, is--

Well, you contributed so much.

You start to see

"Casting by" as a credit.

It was suddenly

a creative role

that needed to be recognized

and acknowledged.

Every well-known

casting director said,

"Well, I should

get one too."

I don't know how

many people got that

but everybody wanted it.

Listen, I don't mean

to be a sore loser

but, uh, when it's done,

if I'm dead, kill him.

Love to.

Marion and George Roy Hill

had me up

for "Butch Cassidy

and the Sundance Kid"

and because I'd done

a comedy on Broadway,

they had me up

for Butch Cassidy.

And Paul Newman

was gonna play Sundance Kid.

I met George and we were

sitting there talking.

I said, "I would

like to do that

but the part I feel closest

to is the Sundance Kid."

He said, "Really?"

George and I

talked and I said,

"That would work okay

for Redford to play that part."

And he said, "Fine."

He called Newman

and Newman said, "All right."

Just one clear shot,

that's all I want.

-Come on, we got to.

-No, get away from me.

-Why?

-I want to fight him.

I will always be

indebted to her

for a chance to break

into another kind of role.

Bob is a tremendous

acting talent.

He's also a very independent,

hard-nosed mick

who goes pretty

much his own way.

These were qualities that

worked very well for Sundance,

including a genuine warmth

under a very cool exterior.

[car horn beeping]

I'm walking here!

I'm walking here!

"Midnight Cowboy"

was very difficult to cast

because of the contrast

of the two lead characters.

You had Joe Buck.

Where's that Joe Buck?

This tall, lanky

rural-type character.

Hey, come on.

And then Ratso Rizzo,

this skid row bum

who limped when he walked.

Action!

The director,

John Schlesinger,

was a distinguished filmmaker

from England,

so he lacked the knowledge

of all the actors

who were available here.

He hadn't seen their work.

So Marion's role

as the casting director,

was even more

important than usual.

Marion took an incredibly

proactive role.

She said, "Don't expect me

to bring in ten actors

for every part.

I'll, maybe,

bring in two or three.

And each of them might be

very different from each other.

They'll each be a different

way to play the part.

Will each bring a different

dimension to the role."

I said to the producer,

"See a play named 'Eh'

because there's

your Ratso Rizzo."

I went downtown and there

was this young guy

kind of hunched,

stooped posture.

I thought, "My God, he looks

so much like Ratso Rizzo."

Dustin was very interested

in the part.

But then

"The Graduate" came out.

And my agent said, "Well,

you can't take that part.

Not only is he unattractive--"

She was telling me

I could be the next

Jewish Cary Grant,

I think, was

the way she put it.

At any rate, I said,

"I want that part

if I could

at least try for it."

One day I see this guy

walking up the road

and it's this fellow who I knew

from the Shakespeare Festival.

I said, "Hey, Keal,

how ya doin'?"

He said,

"I'm up for a big part:

Joe Buck

in the 'Midnight Cowboy'."

I said, "Who's casting it?"

He said, "Marion Dougherty

out of New York."

Who would do

a thing like that?

I said, "Marion Dougherty's

casting, huh?"

So I called my agent

up and I said,

"Could you call

Marion Dougherty

and tell her

I'm on my way to New York

and I'd like to see her?"

I don't know what Marion's

response is gonna be

because the last time

she did something for me

it was a disaster.

I'm driving in

from the airport,

praying,

"Just let her see me."

I walk in the office

and we almost bump

right into each other.

"Marion!"

You know, I said, "Marion,

before you say anything."

I said, "I--listen,

I'm so sorry for what happened

with that 'Naked City.'

It was so terrible."

"Jon," she stops me;

she says, "that's the past.

How would you like to meet

John Schlesinger?

That was it.

Schlesinger and I weren't

considering Jon Voight.

In fact, we had arranged

to test six other actors.

Where are you going?

Including Michael Sarrazin.

What do you mean?

Well, I mean, a person

like you, with your average,

your leadership abilities.

When I heard

about Michael Sarrazin,

I thought, "That's wrong."

And I think that

would, sort of, ruin it.

Marion Dougherty

kept insisting

and pushing Jon Voight's

name in front of us.

So John and I

felt, well,

we've gotta

test this guy.

We did this improvisation

and I'm nervous,

of course.

What makes you think

you got something

that you can

sell to women?

You don't know what--

that's what I--

that's what I got.

That's what I got on you.

Afterward they said,

"Well, what do you think?"

And everybody said,

"Oh, of course,

it's Michael Sarrazin."

I was so upset.

Then the studio

that Sarrazin

was contracted to

would not allow him

two weeks' rehearsal.

It caused Schlesinger

and I to go back

and look at the tests again.

They were watching my screen

test with Michael Sarrazin

over and over and over again.

Schlesinger said,

"Marion, what do you think?"

I said, "John,

you know what I think."

And Marion Dougherty says,

"Jon Voight."

And that was it.

I was completely unknown

to the film world

and Marion,

who had chosen me

for another role

and I'd failed,

well, she had a lot of guts.

I'm Joe Buck from Texas.

Enrico Rizzo from the Bronx.

And I'm gonna buy you a drink,

what the hell you think of that.

Don't mind if I do.

Jon Voight's performance

is totally real,

totally believable.

He just hit all the bases.

Marion's recommendations

were tremendously

important in the film.

Why don't you and me

get right down

on our knees right now?

No, no.

No, don't take my watch.

Please don't take it.

You think you

can come up here

and pull this

kinda crap up here?

It was Marion's castings

and Schlesinger's

brilliant direction

that added up

to the film.

The fact that I did not

get a casting credit

is probably the worst thing

that's happened to me

in my career.

The first time

I saw the picture,

my credit was on a card

with my assistant's.

I said to Jerome,

you have to change it.

Marion said she wanted

a one card

100 percent credit

for herself

and nobody else on it.

And I said, "Well, I didn't

think that was right."

I said, "Well,

then if you can't change it,

I think you should

take my name off."

And, uh, he did.

I fully expected that

one day she'd come back

when she'd cooled

down a little,

and talk to

me more reasonably.

Because, on reflection,

I must say it was clear

that if ever

a casting director

earned a single card credit,

she had on "Midnight Cowboy"

and I've regretted

for 45 years

that I hadn't

given it to her.

Marion was very

specific about the way

she saw characters

in casting.

There's a lot

of sort-ofs and maybes

and yeah,

they could possiblys,

but there's very few

yeah absolutelys.

And I think Marion

was always

looking for that.

Marion used to say

that every actor

has one quality

to bring to the screen.

♪ Don't you let me be young

♪ That's what I am

I went to the public theater.

That's where

I saw Diane Lane.

When I met Marion,

she'd look at you.

And you knew that

she was seeing something

that you didn't see

about yourself.

I went back

to George and I said,

"I saw somebody that

I think you'll love."

You in love?

You don't fall in love

with a boy you just met.

My essential essence

that Marion saw

was that I had a good

amount of innocence.

A good amount.

With some actors you sense

an intangible quality.

You cannot explain it.

You just feel there's

something special,

there's something

magical here.

It doesn't come

along every day.

When I arrived in L.A.

at 18 years old,

I knew that Lynn Stalmaster

was a very important

casting director.

So I was hoping

he liked me.

I was casting

"The Last Detail",

so I brought

John in to read.

I said, "Oh my gosh,

this is such

a significant movie.

Hal Ashby,

one of the greatest directors,

with the hottest actor that

had hit Hollywood in years,

Jack Nicholson.

What am I gonna do

if I actually get this?"

We did some reading

and we did

some improvisation.

They brought me back

and Lynn fought

and pushed the limit

as far as he could.

I kept on getting reports.

It looks

like it's gonna happen.

And then along

came Randy Quaid.

He was kind of big

and out of step.

And I was portraying that,

but it wasn't my essence.

Lynn pulls me

in with Hal Ashby.

He said, "Now look,

there's no doubt

that you would just be

phenomenal on this.

But we have this other

boy that came along

and he kind of is the part.

But we don't

want you to leave

without knowing

how great you did."

I was broken-hearted.

Devastated.

Every actor

can be rejected

at some point.

I would encourage them,

because they probably

have reservations,

"Can I do film,

am I ready?"

The pressure is staggering.

I wasn't sure if

I wanted to be an actor.

My father was so gung ho

about all his kids

going into show biz,

he loved it so much.

But, like a lot of kids,

they don't want to do

what their parents

want them to do.

I have a long history

with Jeff's family.

I've known his father Lloyd

and his brother Beau,

who also is

an exceptionally fine actor.

Lynn cast me

in my first film,

"Halls of Anger"

and it was the antithesis

of what I was expecting.

I've had it.

-You won't graduate!

-I don't care!

-Then what?

-I don't care, I tell ya!

No, you listen to me.

I had the climactic scene

with Calvin Lockhart,

and I had just been through

a terrible love affair

in my real life

and I was able to, kind of,

tap into all that emotion

from this heartache

I was going through

and make it

work for the story.

♪ Trying to touch your hand

Cut to the premiere

of the show.

My brother's

on one side of me

and my father's

on the other side.

I said, "Wait'll you guys

see this scene."

I've had it.

-You won't graduate!

-I don't care!

And here comes the scene.

No, you listen to me.

You've never understood why

so many black kids give up.

You must stick with it.

And you've only had a taste

of what they've had

to live through

all their lives.

And I was like,

"Cut to me, guys."

Maybe now you understand why

they're so full of anger.

And it stays on Calvin.

You can hear me

sobbing a little bit,

but you don't see me.

Sure, they're not gonna throw

their arms around you.

Finally, they cut

to me and my face.

All they saw--

[sobbing]

I guess, and the entire crowd

burst out laughing.

And I just about had

a bowel movement, man.

And I didn't feel

like making a movie,

maybe, ever again.

You don't often

get second chances.

But I would go strictly

with instincts,

and feelings I had

about the actor.

And Jeff has

an innate sense of truth

which is the important thing.

So I thought I should

consider him for another role

with a host

of great film actors.

I thought to myself,

"Do this part.

This'll be the nail in

the coffin of my acting career

and I can move

on to other things."

So I went in it

with a, kind of, reluctance.

I'm sorry for riding you.

But you get my goat

when you act as if

you didn't care a damn

what happened to me.

And you keep your door locked

so I can't talk to ya.

It was a big crossroads for me.

I had such

a wonderful experience

working on that film.

I was hanging

out eight weeks

and just learning

from these old masters.

And that was

a turning point for me.

So thank you, Lynn.

As soon as I didn't get

the part in "Last Detail",

I wanted to go back

to New York and do theater.

And Lynn begged me

not to go.

My manager told Lynn,

"He wants to stay

but he can't afford to stay."

Lynn said,

"Give me a few days."

So Lynn calls

his ex-wife Lea Stalmaster.

And Lea is casting

this awful movie

called "The Devil's Rain".

Lea gives me

the opportunity

to be in

"The Devil's Rain".

You, my brethren,

found the book.

You may now bring

down the vessel.

That subsidizes me

long enough

for Lynn to get

another idea.

I was engaged

to cast the pilot.

♪ Welcome back

And the lights went on.

He said the part

would be a good

segue into movies.

And to not be afraid of it

because it's television.

All right, who are you?

I'm Barbarini.

Eddie Barbarini.

This is my place.

And these are my people.

Lynn said,

"I'm really pushing for you."

He had to get

a lot of approvals

from three very

powerful people.

Vinnie Barbarino.

This is my place.

And these,

these are my people.

And he won.

When John was finally cast,

it fulfilled all

my creative juices.

Lynn's support

gave me the confidence

where I wasn't afraid

to play anything.

♪ Dancin', yeah

♪ Dancin', yeah

Actors need confidence

that somebody out there,

in the know, wants to help you.

What's better than that

in this kind of world,

in this business?

It's known as one of my favorite

words, which is encouragement.

And Marion Dougherty

was full of it.

I've never seen

anything like it.

I went down in the Village

to see a play.

And that's where

I saw Al Pacino.

He was so good,

the hair on the back

of neck rose up.

This has happened to me,

maybe, three or four times

in my life.

I knew then

this was somebody

very special.

The first thing Marion cast

Al Pacino in was "Me, Natalie",

which he had one scene.

He had to dance

with Patty Duke.

And I remember him practicing

his line in the waiting room.

"Wanna dance?"

"Do you wanna dance?"

"Do you wanna dance?"

"Do you wanna dance?"

Marion was always trying

to get me in everything.

She understood actor's plight.

It was, in a sense, the step

up to step into another world,

the step up

into commerce, really.

An actual job

that paid you money.

You know, you could

actually eat.

Pay your rent.

I know a guy down the hall.

In one of the rooms.

And he told me.

He said, "There's this terrific

looking chick in room 424."

So I thought I'd come

in and take a look.

My agent gave me the script.

When I read it,

thinking of Al

as the character,

I thought he's perfect

for this film.

But when we finally went

and made a deal with Fox,

they didn't want Pacino.

That was disastrous for me.

Marion was really,

sort of, hell bent

on Al getting that part.

We got together and decided

let's put on a charade.

Let's go through casting

and then at the end

we tell 'em, "Well, Pacino's

got to be the one."

We interviewed

some really great actors.

One of 'em

being Robert De Niro.

I felt he was doing

a beautiful job,

but I had my mind

set on Pacino.

Ah, I'm the greatest.

Fox finally said, "Okay."

Marion would say casting

is a painful process

for a lot of actors

and directors.

So she made it the best

possible experience for them.

I don't like casting,

it's always uncomfortable.

I don't like to meet

people in any area.

Marion introduced me

to all those people

on "Bananas".

She would say hello to the

actors to put them at ease.

While I was writhing

in the background.

Woody would sit in

a rocking chair in the corner

and really

actually never speak.

He was, like, painfully shy.

Actors come in.

They're either

formidable stars I'm in awe of

and I don't wanna make a fool

of myself in front of,

or there's six people

that could all do the job

just as well

and I have to pick one of them

and I feel bad about it.

I'm not suited to this job.

I never had to shake

any hands or tell any lies.

Not to mention

the Purell bill, you know.

You talkin' to me?

I remember the very,

very civilized way

of meeting an actor,

talking to him or her.

We are the people is not

the same as we are the people.

The actor is being

brought in the room

in such a way

that you feel comfortable.

God, it's good so close.

Because the audition process

is so disturbing.

-Hi, Jacy.

-Hi.

I'm glad you could make it.

For "The Last Picture Show",

Peter Bogdanovich

wanted to make sure

that Cybill Shepherd

looked good in a bathing suit.

She was a "Seventeen" model

and she was absolutely gorgeous.

But she had that,

kind of, wonderful rosy

slightly plumpish

quality to her.

So it was like a question mark

about how great she was gonna

look at the swimming pool

in "The Last Picture Show".

We had to check that Cybill

didn't have all the scars on her

because she'd have

to take off her clothes

in one scene.

Marion brought her

over to the hotel.

I was at the Essex House.

Cybill came in.

She's very tall, big girl.

And Marion checked her out.

You gotta get undressed up

there on the diving board.

Marion said, "I'm embarrassed

to ask you to do this,

but can you possibly

wear a bikini?"

That's the rule.

Yeah, I did it

last Easter.

Mm-kay?

She said, "I'm sorry,

they just wanna make sure

that you didn't have

any unsightly scars."

She seemed to poke fun

at what she was doing.

"Isn't this silly

we have to do this?

It's ridiculous, I told

'em you're beautiful."

She was so kind.

There was a kind

of a gruffness to her.

She wasn't gonna lie to you.

Yeah!

Marion was tough to get in.

She had this sepulcher,

a majestic dynasty that was,

like, you know, Fort Knox

trying to get in there.

And I said, "What am I gonna--

how'm I gonna get in there?"

I was doing a show.

I was supposed to be,

like, a security guy,

but I looked like

a New York City postman.

So I sent a certified letter

to myself.

And then when I got it with all

the certified stamps on it,

when I got it,

I covered my name over

with Marion Dougherty's name.

Delivery.

So a crack opens up.

Are you Marion Dougherty?

"No, no, she's back--"

I said, "She's gotta

sign for this."

"Oh, oh come on in."

I walk in and say,

"Jesus, I'm in."

Finally she gets

off the phone.

I said, "Marion, I'm not

a postman, I'm an actor.

I'm trying to get

in to see you."

She says,

"I don't believe you.

I'm very busy here,

you know,

you can't just come in.

But you know what, that was

very inventive of you.

I'm gonna remember you."

Actors were not freaks to her,

they were people.

Marion got behind their eyes

and saw what made them tick

and who they were

and would use that

personal quality on a role,

which would make the role pop.

-What's your name?

-Tom.

Mine's Audrey.

It's really not,

it's Doris,

but I like Audrey better.

Mr. Hart,

that is the most intelligent

thing you've said today.

Do me a favor.

Please don't call me "man."

What did you

tell Wilson, Tom?

Wilson?

Fabulous, fantastic

Mary Beth McIllhenny

the "It Girl" of the skies!

[bell tolling]

"Willy Wonka," my idea

was to make it

so that you wouldn't

know anybody very well.

I didn't want it

to be a star turn.

So I really had

to depend on Marion.

One day she sent

over Gene Wilder.

Gene had done

"The Producers"

and had a small part

in "Bonnie & Clyde".

I'm from Wisconsin originally.

Where the cheese comes from.

But he still wasn't a star.

He read from the script.

Very please, we have so much

time and so little to see.

Wait a minute.

Strike that.

Reverse it,

thank you.

I said,

"You've got the part."

Then a woman walked in to play

the mother of Mike Teevee.

I said to myself, as soon

as she read a few lines,

"She's got it.

She's got 'it'

and I must have her."

She said, "I've got

to think about it."

Well, why do you

wanna think about it?

This is a feature.

The next day

she said, "I'm sorry.

I'm gonna turn

down the picture.

I've got an offer

for a television series."

♪ Boy, the way

Glenn Miller played ♪

♪ Songs that made

the Hit Parade ♪

Her name was Jean Stapleton.

She was right.

She took the series

and good for her.

We cast "All In The Family"

out of Marion Dougherty's

offices.

Marion had brought

Jean Stapleton

in for the first time

for an audition

for "Cold Turkey".

It's my sixth slice

of salami, sixth slice!

I just fell

in love with her.

So in "All In The Family",

I knew I wanted her.

You know what I think

we oughta do?

What do you think?

I think we oughta eat.

It was Marion Dougherty

who said,

"You gotta talk

to Carroll O'Connor."

If your blacks

and your spics

want their rightful share

of the American dream,

let 'em get out there and hustle

for it just like I did.

Carroll O'Connor read

three lines

and that was it.

Casting is a high art

when you run

into a Marion Dougherty.

All we need

is a couple of days

and we can get the son

of a bitch and nail him.

For "The Sting", I didn't

have to bring anybody

but one person

in for each part.

Name's Lonnegan,

Doyle Lonnegan.

Lieutenant Snyder, Punko.

We got some business

coming in before hours.

That's the ultimate experience

of a casting director

who is so equipped

in their knowledge of actors

and their understanding

of the material

that they're able

to make a single choice

and have it

completely succeed.

"The Sting" did very, very well.

It got nominated for seven,

I think, Academy Awards.

It won Best Director,

as well as Best Picture.

When George won the Oscar,

he said,

"How could I miss?

I had Newman.

I had--I had Redford.

I had Dougherty."

I thought that's wonderful.

I've never heard of a casting

person being mentioned.

Marion taught me the importance

of not just the movie stars,

but every single person

that speaks in the film.

If a little tiny part doesn't

come across as believable,

it ruins the whole frame

of the film for me,

the tone of the film.

When I cast "Deliverance",

John Boorman said to me,

"I want you to look

for an albino boy

for the scene

with the dueling banjo."

And when I arrived

in Clayton, Georgia,

the man assisting me

down there,

he kind of owned the town,

little town,

he took me over

to the schoolroom

and I looked in the window

and sitting there

was a kid.

He had a very odd look

and manner.

It seemed to belong

in the environment of the film.

I ran out to the phone

and I called John Boorman

and I said, "I have found

the answer, I believe."

He said, "Lynn,

is he an albino?"

And I said, "Well, no--"

"No, I told you

I wanted an albino.

I want you to keep looking."

I remember the day

that Billy Joe Redden came in.

Nearly all of us were saying,

"This is the kid,

I mean, it has to be."

[strumming]

Finally, John said, "All right,

let's go with that boy."

Talk about genetic deficiencies.

That pitiful?

He couldn't speak

very well.

He had a kind of strange

dyslexia.

When he tried to talk,

he--

[stuttering gibberish]

John said, "I think we're not

gonna be able to use Billy.

I can't really connect

with him."

I begged John,

I said,

"Let me spend some time

with Billy."

At first, we'd spend

the afternoon

of him looking off

in the woods

and he sort of--

But I sort of remember

the day he was telling me

about these kids.

He said, "They all

call me Squinty Eyes."

Said, "Next son of a bitch

calls me Squinty Eyes,

I'm gonna kill

that son of a bitch."

He put his arm around me

and he said,

"Except you, Ronny,

you can call me Squinty Eyes

if you want to,"

said, "I like you good."

From then on,

we were like best buddies.

It was so...

[sighs]

That scene is one

of the most exciting scenes

I've ever seen on film.

God damn, I could play

all day with that guy.

Marion said,

"Well, don't tell anybody,

but I'm moving

to California,"

which was surprising to me

because she was such a New York,

salty, salty dame.

I was having troubles

at home.

I thought it was

a good time

to have a vacation

from my husband.

As a matter of fact,

I wanted a divorce.

We made an arrangement that

I would stay in the brownstone

and I would continue

to cast.

Woody said,

"What am I gonna do?"

And I said, "Well,

you'll hire Juliet."

I have this sudden impulse

to turn the wheel quickly,

head on into

the oncoming car.

Marion put me with Juliet

and we looked up three pictures

later, five pictures later,

and we had a strong

relationship--

And then we look up

40 pictures later, you know,

and been doing it

for years, decades.

The ability to have Marion

at the studio

as part of a creative team

was an asset

that was very valuable

to the studio

and I think the filmmakers

who worked with her

felt that way too.

Magazine or a book?

Where's English?

What'd they do?

Give a nigger

a nigger of his own?

I knew of Marion

by reputation.

She was so much fun,

kind of a special character

in her own way.

She'd talk about

the new set of suits upstairs

and she'd, "Eh, those

junior G-Men upstairs,

you know, they think

they know everything."

Eisner came in

as president of Paramount.

Marion wasn't as simpatico

with Eisner.

Michael Eisner and I

didn't see eye to eye.

When Marion

would recommend somebody

like Meryl Streep to him,

he would dismiss it.

He would say, "We've got to get

something for Suzanne Somers."

And I'd say, "Why?

I don't think--

she's not a good--no!"

He didn't like that.

And then, somebody told me,

"Eisner, I think,

is gonna fire you."

I said, "Oh really?"

Well, just after somebody

asked me

if I would like to meet

with the Warner Brothers people,

and they wanted me,

then I got called up

to Eisner's office.

He got down on the floor,

took my hands and said,

"Please don't leave us."

Well, I knew as soon

as I said no to Warner Brothers,

he would fire me.

So, I left.

Marion's taste

was impeccable.

I love the fact that

she was no pushover.

She always had opinions,

and I must say,

almost all of the time,

her opinions

were spot-on.

Mr. Holm, you have a daughter,

I have a son.

He's a fine boy,

he's a good wrestler--

He's also full of lust.

I can spot it

a mile away.

He's lusting

after your daughter.

Marion Dougherty

is the reason

why I was cast

in my first movie.

I had only done theatre.

George Roy Hill and I

went to see "Barnum."

Up in the box

overlooking the stage

there was this woman.

I was so impressed

how quiet she was up there

in that box.

I would come out about 15

minutes before the play started

and I would knit

in that box.

I was working really hard

to give this woman

three dimensions

and have her sexy.

I worked my ass off

in that part.

I said, "Why don't we

read her for Jenny Fields,

the mother of Garp?"

Yes, what is it

you want?

What the hell did that

bastard son of yours

do to my dog?

Garp bit Bonkie.

I think they had said

it was like

a young Katharine Hepburn

type.

I went in to the audition

and I was doing

a very bad Katharine Hepburn.

And George told me later

that it was

one of the worst

auditions he'd ever seen.

She gave a terrible reading

but there was something

about her

which was quite wonderful.

I wonder if George

would have cast me

without Marion whispering

in his ear.

I got a call

from my agent saying,

"They're making a film

of 'World According to Garp'

and George Roy Hill

wants to see you."

I thought, "Great,

but for what?"

My agent's assistant said,

"Well, I don't know which role,

there's a typo.

It's for a character

named Roberta."

And I thought,

"Oh my God!"

and I immediately saw it.

I immediately saw it.

He's young,

he's handsome.

Such a brilliant idea

of Marion's,

because here's this

big, hulking guy

but he does have this gentle

sort of high timbered voice

for a guy of his size.

I was a tight end

with the Philadelphia Eagles.

Number 90,

Robert Muldoon.

I went in to meet George.

He ruled me out

absolutely.

because I was 6'4".

He thought me standing

next to Robin

would be absurd.

Marion knew it would take

months to persuade him.

Literally eight months later,

they came back to me,

and three other actors,

and one by one

we did a screen test.

By some quark of fate,

I had read a book called

Conundrumabout a year before

by Jan Morris,

the transsexual.

So George asked me

these questions,

and I answered in

the character of Roberta.

Deeply informed about this,

you know, he was floored!

And Marion was off

in the corner, thinking,

"These fucking New York actors,

they are so smart."

[laughing]

Forty-three, twenty-nine!

The best moment of all,

George wanted

to be persuasive

that I had been

a football player.

He had me take a hike,

fade back,

and deliver a pass

in full drag.

He caught it, and I leaped up

and down like this.

[laughing]

My name's Roberta.

I'm Garp.

Marion described

George turning around

and looking at her like,

"You were right all along."

Marion's judgment is present

in the 500 movies that we made

during the time that

I helped run Warner Brothers.

When she said, "I love this

person for that part,"

I often just

listened to Marion,

and just went

down the track.

Gun, gun!

I had never done

an action film,

and when I read "Lethal Weapon"

for the first time,

it seemed I had a reason

to make one of them

because there were

great characters.

Marion Dougherty said, "What

about Mel for this guy, Riggs?"

I said, "Oh, fantastic."

It was about '86.

I was in Australia,

and I was on the farm.

I had been in like three films

in rapid succession.

Good films, but they didn't

actually break through.

They weren't sort of

poppy enough.

They were a little off.

I thought, "You know what, I'm

gonna walk away from this game."

So I just decided

to drop out,

and raise organic vegetables

and beef cattle.

Dear Marion got

Mel on the phone,

and she arranged

to get the script to him.

I read the script.

It had your archetypal,

two-dimensional hero.

But this one was different

because the script admitted

to the man's insanity.

He was flawed, really flawed,

he was suicidal.

He was, and I thought, "Oh,

that's interesting."

So I came over

and took the gig.

I said, "Oh, fantastic."

And I said,

"What about Murtaugh?"

And Marion said,

"Did you see 'Color Purple'?"

I done fixed that mailbox so

I can tell if it be mess with,

you understand!

She said, "What about

Danny Glover for Murtaugh?"

And my reaction was,

"But he's black."

Not funny, pretty

friggin' frightening.

It wasn't written, "a black

character plays this role."

Marion looked at me, she said,

"He's black, so what?"

I shrank.

Marion thought, "Danny Glover

is a sensational actor,

this a good opportunity to play

the other end of the scale."

I remember coming up

to Dick's house,

Marion was there,

Mel Gibson,

and the major executives from

Warner Brothers were there,

and Mel and I read the script,

read from cover to cover,

we read the script.

Wa--wa--watch!

Now don't worry,

you know, I was drivin'

before you were an itch

in your daddy's pants.

Danny has a good sense

of comedy.

There's a scene where his

daughter comes down the stairs.

This is my New Year's Eve

dress.

don't you like it,

isn't it cool?

He's sort of noticing

that she's dressed

and becoming a woman

for the first time.

And he sorta does this

double take, and he goes.

He does this

Jack Benny thing.

He actually looks

like Jack Benny.

[laughing]

That's interesting

'cause I love Jack Benny.

There was something about Jack

Benny and his use of silence.

I'm the one who's

giving the party.

[laughing]

He was able to capture

the moment,

and elongate that moment,

so, uh, there's a little bit

of that I guess.

I'm not crazy.

I know.

Oh, good,

let's eat.

After we all finished reading,

there was a moment's silence,

and someone said,

"Let's go make a movie."

I said, "Marion, you

just made the greatest team

that's ever happened since

Abbott and Costello."

This script said "Riggs"

and it said "Murtaugh".

It didn't say color.

And when Marion

said that to me,

and I answered her

like that,

it was like a nail

in my heart to think

I'm bigoted,

I'm narrow,

I--if it's not on paper,

I don't see it.

Dick Donner said, "Well,

Danny Glover's black,"

and it'd been

left at that.

But in some way

the fact that she said it,

that this great

casting director said,

"This team is going to be

something special,"

it opened up some kind of space

for him, inside of him.

It changed my life in casting,

but more important,

it changed my life

in reality.

That's a casting lady,

that's a casting director

who if you're all out here,

you understand,

this is a woman that

really changed my life,

and I, uh, one of the reasons

I thank you all.

[cheering]

Time Incorporated

and Warner Communications

announced they've

agreed to a merger.

Another giant chunk of the

American entertainment industry

fell into foreign hands today.

The industry was changing.

Coca-Cola is swallowing

Columbia Pictures.

After the 70s, it became less

of a personal business,

and more of a corporate

business.

Sold for more than $6 billion.

Valued at $18 billion.

Studios are just

sort of clearing houses now,

they're not really

studios anymore.

It's not at all

the business it was.

Now, casting decisions

are made corporately,

instead of creatively.

In the late 90s, television

actors were being assigned roles

in some of our feature films

whether they were right

for the part or not,

because the studio decided

that it could make money.

So that's who

they would push.

That was very frustrating

to Marion.

Their scripts weren't

getting any better.

Sometimes they were

getting worse.

I'm gonna be you,

a big stupid dog.

Marion called me one day

from the office.

She said, "They've offered me

this movie

called 'See Spot Run'."

I could chase my tail.

I'm chasin' my tail,

I'm chasin' my tail.

She started crying,

"How do I have a career

with 'Midnight Cowboy,' 'Butch

Cassidy,' and 'See Spot Run'?"

I was a little unhappy.

I saw things changing.

Most of the directors

that I had liked,

and had been happy with

were not doing much anymore.

It was different.

She began to feel

a little bit pushed aside.

This is not a community

that's very forgiving

about getting older.

I always felt her opinion wasn't

listened enough to at that time.

The insight she had,

the intuition,

you know, her history.

This is sort of the disease

of Hollywood,

is the whole younger, hotter.

You know, younger

filmmakers emerge,

and young executives emerge,

and they want younger,

hotter casting people,

like they want younger,

hotter actors.

To cast a movie full

of character faces

is more difficult than it has

been at times in the past.

It's all about a physical

quality, how you look.

Romance me with a nice dinner,

and, uh, maybe you

can get that bonus.

It's not about one's interior,

it's not about training,

it's none of those things.

And those were

all the things,

particularly coming

from New York,

that we all

cared about.

The president at the time said,

"Do you want a job here?"

and I was like," Well, yeah,

but Marion's here."

And he's like, "Well,

she's gonna be leaving."

And I'm like, "Okay, well,

have you talked to Marion?"

"Yes, we've talked to Marion."

And then Susan Smith

called me and said,

"Yeah, she doesn't know

what's going on."

And I was like,

"Oh fuck."

I remember opening the trades,

and like the second or third

page was a big blurb.

Lora Kennedy, new SVP of future

casting at Warner Brothers.

So I walk into the office,

and I said, "Marion,"

I said, you know,

"it looks like they made

an announcement today that,

you know,

I'll let you read it."

She reads it,

and she says, "Well,

I figured that was

gonna happen, honey,

we just move on."

Well, 50 years of casting,

that was the end of that.

I think it's

a lack of respect

for casting directors

in general, and what we do.

I think it's indicative of that,

it's not indicative of Marion,

it's indicative of what we do,

and how we're perceived.

Coming up live on The View.

I also hope that

the casting director for

Grey's Anatomy is nominated.

Is there a category

in the Primetime Emmys?

Oh, because the casting

on that show is amazing.

Then we get out of hand,

then the garbage-collectors

have to be nominated.

They're not exactly

the same job.

The caterers.

My hundreds of colleagues

and myself would not be that,

we'd be hurt

by that comment,

but we wouldn't be

shocked by it.

I think, um, there's

a common misperception

and there's a common

underestimation

of what casting directors do.

If that's true, there's

no--there's no, uh...

is their an Oscar for--no?

Is that correct?

I think it's crazy.

Well, I th--it's surprising.

We do, we get an Emmy Award,

which is fantastic

that the the Television Academy

has acknowledged us.

There's a reason

why casting directors

are not nominated for Oscars,

it's because the DGA obviously

doesn't want that to happen.

Every year, saying the Academy

Award for Casting,

I totally, completely

disagree with it.

I'm ultimately making

those decisions.

And I will inevitably make

those decisions as a director.

But isn't the costume

the director's decision?

And isn't makeup and hair,

and location, and...

isn't everything

the director's decision?

Maybe it should

end here instead.

The editor sits at the editing

bay, cuts the movie,

and then the director comes in,

and says, "Now, my cut."

The production designer designs

the set, the director walks in,

he goes, "I don't want

a wall there."

Hi, Mia, welcome.

The casting director

brings in the actor,

but of course it's

the director's decision,

because it's always

the director's decision.

But the process of casting,

you are never gonna know about.

Casting takes place

in a room

between myself

and my casting director.

So giving a casting Oscar

would be a real misnomer.

I'd say you'd have to

take some Oscars away

from some editors then,

because a really

good editor

bring an enormous

amount to a film,

but it's hard to know.

Maybe that DP

did everything,

and maybe it was

the director

who said, "No, no, we're

shooting towards the light."

You don't know.

And so you don't know what

a casting director has done,

of course you don't,

it's all a collaborative art,

but, my god, they

certainly deserve it

as much as the--

as anyone else.

At the Academy, David Rubin

and I made a presentation.

We wrote this speech, and David

read it to the board,

and it was so eloquent.

I said, "They can't say no."

But once again,

the Academy turned down

the casting directors.

I think there's

an old guard there

that perhaps started in the days

when Marion started,

that still sees us

as secretaries,

and that we don't really

serve a function.

Giving casting directors Academy

Awards was discussed often,

but, you know, you can't

give everybody,

and there were--I don't wanna go

into all the discussions.

The time is coming for this

to be re-examined and rethought.

It's a wonderful recognition,

and they deserve it.

Mark Rosenberg, the head of

production at Warner Brothers

was a huge Marion fan.

So I said to Mark,

"Why don't we try to get

Marion a special Oscar?"

She certainly is a remarkable

woman and an absolute genius,

and there's such

a history here,

and a new way of looking

at casting.

And a generosity of spirit

in terms of passing it on

to other people.

And also a very strong female

part of the industry.

I talked to Julia and a lot of

the women who'd worked with her,

and said, "What do you think,

let's try to do it."

They started a campaign,

and there were some

pretty wonderful letters

from some pretty

wonderful people.

"Dear Board of Governors,

I've long felt the department

of casting

to be overlooked

in acknowledgement.

Marion Dougherty

is one of the few

who has pioneered

a new path in this area."

"She's always been

deeply committed,

risk-taking

and very wise in casting.

She's been a great influence on

many other casting directors

who learned the pursuit

of excellence from her."

"Ms. Dougherty is respected

and admired by her colleagues.

She is a corner stone

in the film industry,

and her achievements should

not go unrecognized."

"She has a sensitivity

to understand

what directors want and need,

sometimes more than they do.

She is a joyous risk taker,

and one of the golden

ladies of Hollywood."

"She's a dedicated

casting director

with a special talent for

finding the right personality

to fit the right part.

I support your effort

to present Marion

with this great achievement."

[applause]

A casting director

with one really good idea

can fundamentally readjust

an audience's understanding

of what the story is,

what the impact is

on the culture.

That's what they do,

and if we're lucky

we get the benefit of those

moments of inspiration.

I think all the great

directors are very grateful

to the really gifted

casting directors

because I'm sure

they were forced to cast people

that they didn't know,

and might have been

nervous about,

and the great casting

directors have good reason

for taking the risk,

and I think the movies

are better for it.

I just wish you were back,

Marion.

I wish you were working.

I wish you were doing

what you always did.

You know, because the actors

need you, we all need you.

Marion, I love you.

You know, I remember you told me

a story about a boat you loved,

a dingy you had

at your house that was in...

Way Up Island,

maybe even Maine.

I loved you for that.

And then over time,

I loved you for much more.

God bless.

I'm just another

piddling actor

who benefitted greatly

from your ministrations,

and I'm here today,

sitting on my fat ass

in this cushy office...

delighted to say "Thank you."

Marion...

if you've forgotten me

it's okay.

I haven't...

I never will forget you.

Thank you.

You're great, Marion,

it was a great privilege for me

to have worked with you

all those years.

So thanks, babe.