Bob Lazar: Area 51 & Flying Saucers (2018) - full transcript

I often wonder
about the nature of reality,

about our relationship
to the creative force

that forged the particles of
our stars and intertwined them

with the molecules
of our bodies.

Who are we,

and where are we actually sitting within
the architecture of our universe?

Are we alone?

Or is the answer simply
stranger than we can think?

My name is Jeremy Corbell.

I seek to weaponize
your curiosity.

And if you're ready to
suspend your own prejudice,



welcome to the world
ofExtraordinary Beliefs.

This week, we've heard the
contention of UFO researchers

that there's a secret government
within our government.

Well,
there are several...

Actually nine flying saucers,

flying discs that are out there
of extraterrestrial origin.

Not to burst your bubble, but the
Earth is not the center of the universe.

At least not anymore.

You are not the star
of your own movie.

Humans are not
the top of the food chain.

And fate is a fantasy.

But I can't prove any of this,

even if I wanted to.

There is an indefinable
mysterious power that pervades everything.



I feel it,
though I do not see it.

It is this unseen power
which makes itself felt.

There is an indefinable mysterious
power that pervades everything.

I feel it,
though I do not see it.

It is this unseen power
which makes itself felt.

There is...

Reality simply
isn't what it used to be.

Things are not
what they seem.

Everything around us
is a mental construct.

We create
our own reality.

Breaking that down
is hard to do.

And once it's done,

there ain't no coming back.

What happens to people when
their fundamental beliefs,

the bedrock of their
understanding,

explodes into
a million fucking pieces.

When something comes careening
from out of the blue

and it messes with
everything we know.

How do we react?

There is an indefinable
mysterious power that pervades everything.

Beliefs
are mercurial things.

They direct our lives and
choices, moment by moment.

This doorway is to
the imagination emporium.

Harness the hunches
polished with proof.

They're like clothing
you can't afford.

They elevate us,
yet they're not ours to keep.

We discard them when they no
longer serve our needs.

Or we find out they
weren't real at all.

This story is extraordinary.

Especially if it's true.

And it all started
in the desert,

just north of Las Vegas.

Area 51, the most
secretive spots on the planet

is located on the north-east
edge of the Nevada test site

and is said to be where numerous
top-secret weapon systems

have been tested
over the years.

According to some
UFO researchers,

it's also where the government
is test-flying alien spacecraft.

It sounds pretty far out,
but some Las Vegas residents

report having seen
these flying saucers.

A local scientist
who says he worked at Groom Lake

and saw the saucers joins us
in tonight's interview.

He has asked that
his identity be shielded.

Sir, how do we know you are
who you say you are

and that you actually have knowledge
about what's going on at Groom Lake?

Well, I guess there's no
way you could really know. Uh...

Uh, there's really no way I can prove
it without revealing my identity

and getting myself into more
trouble than I have already.

Exactly
what's going on up there?

Well, there are
several, actually nine

flying saucers, flying discs that are
out there of extraterrestrial origin,

and they're being test-flown

and basically just analyzed.

You say there're nine
saucers. How are those tests going?

As far as what?

As far as whether they're
successful and that sort of thing.

Oh, well, some of them are
100% intact and operate perfectly.

The other ones
are being taken apart.

I was involved mainly in
propulsion and the power source.

Where did we
get these saucers,

how did they come into
the hands of the government?

I haven't the slightest idea

and, you have to understand, the
information is very compartmentalized,

and I was only
allowed information

that pertained particularly
to what I was involved in.

But, I mean, couldn't
our government have made them

as opposed to getting them
from some alien beings?

Totally impossible.
Uh...

The propulsion system is
a gravity propulsion system,

the power source is
an antimatter reactor.

This technology
does not exist at all.

In fact, one of the reasons that I'm
going forward with this information,

it's not only a crime
against the American people,

it's a crime against
the scientific community,

which I've been
part of for some time,

who are actively trying to
duplicate these systems,

yet they are in existence now and
basically in the hands of the government.

What would happen
to you if the government learned

that you were giving us
this information?

Anything could happen, I don't know,
it's... I haven't the slightest idea.

You said... You
referred to getting into trouble,

have you had some
repercussions already?

Yeah, I've been threatened
with being charged with espionage,

I've had my life threatened by them,
my wife's life threatened by them.

And...

I mean, I don't know where
else you can go from there.

Well, I want
to thank you for joining us.

Pretty interesting stuff
you've got to say.

Thank you.
Thank you, sir.

We'll have more news
in just a moment.

Now, first we
go to Dan Rather in Beijing

for a look ahead
at theCBS Evening News.

CBS Evening News,
from China.

We'll have
extensive coverage...

The live interview with the
shadowy Dennis drew international attention.

Portions were broadcast by radio
in six European countries

and in a nationally televised
TV special in Japan.

Despite numerous inquiries and feelers,
Dennis has remained anonymous until now.

His real name is Robert Lazar.

He says he was hired to work
at an area called S4,

which is a few miles
south of Groom Lake.

At S4, he says, are flying
saucers, antimatter reactors

and other working
examples of technology

that is seemingly beyond
human capabilities.

George Knapp,
Eyewitness News 8.

Good evening, everyone.

You're in the right place
at the right time.

Blasting out of the Mojave
Desert like a sirocco

blazing across the land into
your town, into your home,

slamming into your radio like
a super-charged nano particle

of unobtanium.

Greetings to all of you
from the boldest, bawdiest,

most outrageous
city in the world,

planetary capital of sun,
fun, sin, sex and secrets,

my not-so-humble hometown,
Las Vegas, Nevada.

You know, there are a lot of
people, myself included,

who would like to focus
on big-picture stuff.

Who are these visitors, why are they
here, what is the nature of reality,

what is their interest in us,
where did they come from?

Those are the questions
that people have been asking

about the UFO mystery
since the beginning.

We're no closer to answering any
of them, but Bob got pretty close.

Bob got to read these briefing documents
that provided those kind of answers.

The thing is, when we
were covering his story,

so much of the effort
was in proving

that he really was the
person that he said he was.

Is it true, is it plausible

that really,
that was the focus

more than the really
important stuff.

You have to cover
the story of Bob Lazar.

And the only way to do
that is to talk to Bob.

And I don't know if he'll talk to
you or not, but you need to try.

It's all going to be
circumstance for you,

is the moment that you approach
him, the mood that he's in,

what else is going on
in his life at the time...

You might hit the jackpot and get
him at exactly the right time

and the universe is aligned and
he's willing to talk about it.

But you'd have to
be awfully lucky.

Because, in general, Bob
doesn't like to talk about it.

I think he's
very happy in his life,

he's happy to have left
the UFO stuff behind,

he misses his friends,

he misses John Lear, he misses Gene
Huff, maybe even me, to some extent.

But he doesn't miss the UFO topic and
he doesn't miss talking about it.

Because ultimately, it's disturbing.
These are disturbing issues.

They go to the heart
of who we are as people,

as human beings,
the nature of reality itself.

Is this
a computer simulation?

Are we all the product
of an alien video game?

Or some
multidimensional movie,

drive-in movie theater
production or something?

Big questions.
Disturbing answers.

And Bob has never been comfortable
in talking about it. Never.

He reacted by going into a cocoon in
a lot of ways. He didn't like it.

He doesn't like the attention, and
it totally screwed up his life.

It's not surprising
that even years later,

he's still is uncomfortable
in discussing these things.

It's a very disturbing
view of reality.

A young person's guide to UFOs.
This looks old, man.

Hmm.

Hey, what are we
talking about anyway?

We'll go through...

My name's Bob Lazar,

I'm known for working
at a classified base

known as S4, out in the Nevada
desert, near Area 51.

And there, we reverse-engineered
alien spacecraft.

And it's changed
my life a lot.

You know, it's probably
changed every aspect of it.

Positive or negative?

Well, for the most part,
negative.

I mean, it's really difficult to
find positive aspects of that.

I mean, I'm sure there
are some here and there,

but most of them
were negative.

Would-- Would you--

Would you take it all back and
just be Bob the jet-car guy

and never have done this if you can, or
are you glad you had the experience?

Yeah, it's hard to say.

I don't know. I think
I'd lean towards not...

At this point in my life, I'd probably
lean towards not saying anything.

You know, what would be
your message to a young person now

about looking at your story
and thinking about the world,

what would you say to them?

Just pay attention.

Just pay attention.
I can't really say much.

The world's
a lot different now.

The way information is disseminated
and the way things are passed around.

It's distorted even faster and
more now than it used to be.

So, they've got
a rough road ahead

if they're trying to cut
through the bullshit.

What do you want
them to know?

That in the late 1980s, the
US government had recovered

alien spacecraft, several
of them, and the technology

in the Nevada desert that they
were keeping quiet and analyzing.

That's a fact.

They don't need my story, but, I
mean, that's all my story was.

Is that I was just one of the
people working on this ground.

Well, fine, I'll just say everything
instead of holding back on anything,

and then you can
edit it later on. All right.

Well, we'll take it
from the top then.Okay. Well, go ahead.

How you got involved
with this program?

I had sent resumes
to several national labs,

I got a response
from a couple of them.

I went in for an interview,
they had a job in mind,

and then they continued
questioning me

mainly on my interests
outside of work.

They seemed to be
really concerned about that.

What, things like
jet cars and...

Right. "What do you do
in your spare time?"

You know, "You say you work
on little projects."

I said, "Yeah, I have
a particle accelerator

in my master bedroom,"
and things of that sort.

And some time went by
and they called me back in,

they said there was a senior
staff physicist that was leaving

this organization and they basically
interviewed me for that job.

I was given a lot
of briefings to read on...

I believe there are 121
different briefings,

and they sat me in a room
and they had a...

While they were going
and updating my clearance

to a level that they call
"majestic..."

You start
reading these reports,

you see some of them deal
with flying saucers,

what's your reaction?

Well, I was completely shocked,
I couldn't believe it.

But I was fascinated,
I was so excited, I...

It's a science dream, really.

Eventually,
I was shown them.

One close-up, one operating.

They had one of the reactors
out of the crafts,

which was
an antimatter reactor.

Uh...

I was given a demonstration
on how it worked,

things that it did
and the physics of it.

The thing I was most interested
in is duplicating the reactors

without using
this element 115.

Which is, of course, impossible.
They were trying to...

And there have been
projects before that

just trying to use a normal nuclear
generator fueled with plutonium.

And that was,
really, a futile attempt.

Some people are
sources of gravity.

Their certainty and wholeness
commands our attention.

We are drawn to them
by a natural law

that requires we don't quite
understand the mechanism.

But the pull is like a tide,
a current you can't deny.

And eventually,
it wears you down.

Call George Knapp.

Calling George Knapp mobile.

Hey, George. Hey, man.

What's up, man, how you doing?
All right. What's going on?

This is now 30 years since you
initially broke the story about Lazar.

So, I mean, the amount of the
information is overwhelming,

and I just want to go over with you
some of the details of the case.

Sure.

We're talking about UFOs,
alien craft, back engineering,

and there's Lazar saying
he did all that.

And from what I understand,
it spread everywhere.

Yeah, you know, we had that
first interview in May of 1989,

with him as Dennis, was...
not his real identity,

not known, not revealed to the audience.

And even then, before we
knew who Bob Lazar was,

that sparked a big... A great deal
of interest among the public.

I spent eight months
between May and November

trying to verify Bob's
background,

to see if we could
solidify the case,

to see if we could find out
if he was telling the truth.

And then to... The plan was
to unleash it in November,

which is what we did...

...it was the highest-rated
news series we've ever done.

It was the highest-rated news special
that ever aired in Las Vegas.

And then it really exploded,
it went all over the world.

Bootleg copies of the tapes were being
sold and shown in movie theaters.

You had media interests
from all over the world.

And I think a lot of it was
skeptical at the beginning

which, of course, it would be.

But in the end, every major
news organization in the world

beat a path to Area 51's door.

And tens of thousands of people
started showing up out there,

to see whatever it was that was
flying around in the desert.

They're still coming,
all these years later.

And I know a lot of my media colleagues
have had problems with that story,

but they've all covered it,
all of them.

It put Area 51 on the map. It's
now known all over the world.

Even though Lazar
worked at S4,

Area 51 is the term
that the public knows.

So it was huge. It was
huge then, it's huge now.

The mountains appear
to float on dry lake beds.

Like spaceships
from another world.

They seem to ride
on a viscous material,

channeled through empty space by
heat that rises and separates.

It petrifies
everything it contacts

like a green glass honey.

A goddamn psychedelic liquid

drowning the emptiness
with imagination.

This desert is pocked and punctuated
by a thousand gaping holes

created in the thousand atomic
blasts that define an era.

What are they building in the
desert, north of Las Vegas?

What are they hiding?

Yeah.

What is your name and what
is your relationship to Bob Lazar?

My name is Mario Santa Cruz, and I
met Bob actually in my neighborhood.

He lived, like,
one block over.

My attraction to Bob
was his jet dragster.

I saw this jet dragster sitting
out in front of his house

in our neighborhood
which was extremely...

Just the jet dragster alone
was rare.

But in my neighborhood, to see
something like that was unbelievable.

People were harassing
Bob, threatening him,

and you were with him in one of
those experiences, at least one.

A couple of times, actually.

I actually had
a weapon with me,

you know, when we rode together because
he had been shot at, you know?

What was the weapon,
was it the Uzi?

Yes.Yeah.

I don't know why
I'm being so careful.

I'm used to being that way when
it comes to talking about Bob.

Being careful what I say,
you know what I mean?

So it's kind of
a force of habit

to kind of just walk on
eggshells a little bit.

He just wanted to stay alive.

That's why he exposed himself.

His life was...
It was in chaos.

Hell, he pulled out of it
and he dug deep.

It's a pretty
incredible story.

They shot at you? Somebody
shot maybe as a warning perhaps.

It was a good warning. I had my
back tire shot out on my car

as I was getting
on the freeway.

My--You saw the guy?

Yeah.

Is this a secret worth
killing to keep?

I mean, the government,
would you say?

Obviously.

But in fact, the only reason

that getting this
on tape is insurance.

Well, that's one reason, but, I
mean, also as an American citizen,

you're bothered by... That
this stuff is going on and--

Yeah, I am, but not enough
to have, you know,

stood here and
have it on the record.

Insurance is the true
motivation behind this.

At four months old, in our
little apartment in Florida,

that's me holding him,
very proud mom holding him.

We had a beautiful
little place in Florida.

Look at that.

One Sunday morning, must have
been about 6:00 in the morning,

everyone's asleep,
and there's this huge bang.

Bob had put a jet engine
in the bike.

At 6:00 in the morning, he decided
to take it out for a trip.

What did you guys think when
he said, "Mom, Dad, I'm building--"

Scared out of my mind.

I didn't know what
he was going to do next.

Was he going to blow up the
house, blow up the world?

I don't know.

It's out there, you know? He's out there.

You know, if he proves
his story, let's say,

maybe it would cause problems,
maybe it would blow shit up.

It... More than
likely it would.

But he's best off keeping
things down low, really.

But at the same time, he has said there
is a way he could prove his story.

I want him to be happy.

If vindication is
what he wants, fine.

But that's up to him.

You believe him or not.

It's a fearful thing to think
that there's something out there

that we don't know anything about. Or
are they dangerous? Can they hurt us?

Will they attack us?
You don't want to know,

so you don't believe it.

You'd rather not believe.

There might be other things out
there, other things in the universe.

There has to be. We can't
be all by ourselves.

We can't be.

My name is Joy
and I am Bob's wife.

We've been together 17 years.

What is it that you
think is most misunderstood?

That he really is an
honest guy, you know?

He doesn't make stuff up.

I guess it's just so big.

So the easier thing to do

is to point the finger
and say, "Liar."

Yeah, that's so sad.

That's really sad...

That they don't know
real Bob.

There's particular
moments that define each one of us.

We may not know it at the
time, but we learn it later.

Every action creates
a cascade of reactions.

Life is a web of events.

Actions overlaid
by consequence.

And woven across
the fabric of time.

Future determined by past,

past defined by present,

present experienced throughout
the lens of personal history.

But for some, it's obvious.

You can put your finger on it.

That definable, indelible
moment when everything changed.

I love my job. There's a lot
of craftsmanship in the stuff I do.

I really like working
with my hands.

It's a really unique job.

I don't think there's any
other job

where you get to do this kind
of stuff every day.

We'll either get a really
interesting order coming in,

or Bob will get bored

and try to come up with a new project,
and that's when it gets really fun.

So, there's another one
that he wants to do...

Like recreate a grand atomic
chemistry set,

something of that sort, and I
think that will be really cool

if he ever decides
to hone in on that.

This is the
atomic energy lab kit.

It's something from
the 1950s, a toy,

like a chemistry set you'd get for
your kid. It was made by Gilbert.

Chemistry is, today, a fascinating
adventure for youth of all ages.

Gilbert has made this
exciting science

available in safe
and easy-to-understand form.

Made as completely safe as
human ingenuity can devise.

This actually came
with radioactive material.

You could really conduct atomic
energy experiments in it.

It was fascinating.

And it was billed as the most
dangerous toy ever made,

and still, in some respect, it's
still considered that way today.

But the thing is it wasn't,
it was just people's fear.

So, here I am and I'm
watching you do your work.

If people don't know you,
it''s so easy for them

to just make shit up about you
and to dehumanize you.

How simple that is to do.

The fact that somebody would
say you're not a scientist.

I mean, all I've ever done,

is science-related stuff
my entire life.

So, I don't know. I guess the
point is, do I really care what

people I don't know think?

And probably to some extent,
I do.

But I don't dwell on it.

I guess it is easier to discredit someone
that you have no information on,

'cause you can just say
anything about them,

then there's nothing
to refute it.

I mean, I feel privileged
I got to work in it.

So, in some respects, I shouldn't
be allowed to complain.

I've given the example of,
you know,

transporting one of those small
modern-day portable nuclear reactor

back into Victorian times, and
giving it to the scientists there.

Back in that time, they didn't
even know about radiation.

So they'd see a machine making power,
kind of like what we're doing,

and marvel at it, "Wow it's
producing a lot of power,

there's no smokestack, there's
no coal, there's no fuel.

How is this thing working?"

They start taking it apart.

Well, they'll all die, soon as
they get close to the core.

If people would come in to
check on them, we'll all die,

and no one knows,
nothing touched them.

So they're going to think
it's haunted or something,

there's some evil forces
or something in there.

But, I mean, who says
that can't happen to us?

The first time Barry showed me
the reactor in operation,

you know, here it is
on the bench,

and he said, you know, "Try
and touch the sphere on top."

And you couldn't,
your hand was pushed away.

Just like in two
light poles of a magnet.

It's the exact same feeling. But
there was no metal involved.

And that's shocking.

That's really shocking because
nothing does that.

That's an operating
powerful force field.

So just seeing
something like that

immediately starts that whole
chain reaction in your mind

going, "Wow, wait, if you could do this,
there could be force fields on tanks.

There can be things
that lift off the ground.

We don't need jet
and rocket engines anymore.

That means, wait, there's no
use for cars." I mean, boom!

The whole thing changes the entire
world, the economy, everything.

We'd go end-on-end just if we had an
answer to how that machine worked

that I was sitting there,
touching.

The potential for us
to re-understand

human experience is--Right.

Right. I mean,
there's life somewhere else.

It's a big deal.

It's an important part of human
history that we've found that out.

It was...

Awesome but fearsome
at the same time.

It was being completely
fucking scared all day long.

It's not exactly the most
fun job when you're there.

You know, almost three decades
later, the fear drops off

and you're just left with the amazement
and technology that you were exposed to.

Here we have an artifact here
from another civilization.

It really changes the way
a lot of people think.

We're all looking
for an answer.

Having physical proof
is an awful big deal.

I think what a lot of people
find really compelling about Bob,

he legitimately appeared...

And appears sometimes
just perplexed by what he saw.

Have you noticed
that about him?

Yeah, he was aware
that this was weird.

He was aware it was weird
that they hired him.

I mean, you know,
he's a smart guy,

and he thinks outside the box.
So in a lot of ways,

he might have been just
exactly what they needed

for a program that
seemed to be stalled.

But he knew that he wasn't
their kind of a guy,

that they could have had their pick
of any scientist in the world,

presumably, to work on this.

So it was strange, and it was strange
that they started showing him

these briefing books with this
incredibly sensitive information.

Right off the bat.

As soon as he gets there, they
start showing him this stuff

with alien bodies broken down

so he could see their organs
and the history

of human-alien interaction
and all kinds of things

that the UFO community
had suspected

but no one could prove, and
he just thought it was weird

that anyone would
show him this stuff.

He wondered what the heck
was going on.

I think he was thrilled, you know,
part of him was really thrilled

to be there and thrilled
to see it,

even if it turned out to be
some kind of a ruse.

But, you know, he knew that
something was not quite right

about the whole thing,
or suspected that anyway.

You were telling people since 1989
that there was some sort of hand scanner,

there was like a bone scanner. and
you tried to describe it. You said

you think it took measurements
of the bone,

there were these pegs,
you put your hand on it.

It's a small plate with some pins on
it that you could put between your fingers.

There's a bright
light above it...

The interesting thing is when
you walk into the facility,

or even to leave,
they have a hand reader.

I was told that it has to do
something where it measures the...

A bright light measures the bones in your
finger, they're unique to each person.

It sounds like something out of a TV
show, but it's exactly the way it is.

I looked for that kind
of thing all over the Internet,

I never found anything,
and then all of a sudden,

this article comes out and it
says that at the Nellis Range,

they were talking about
the stealth program,

there was indeed this hand scanner
that was used in the secret programs,

and they just admitted
or announced it publicly,

and there were some photos, and
I just was interested and so...

I never thought I'd see
one of these again.

But I tried to explain this
to people so many times,

and they either didn't believe me or
say, "Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there is."

And there is it.
There it is.

It's like a biometric
thing for the hands, yeah?

The beginnings of, yeah, I mean, it
wasn't all that advanced back then

but, yeah, that's it.

I can't believe you found a
picture of this. I really can't.

This was the scanner
used to get in to S4.

And I tried to explain this
to people so many times

that there were pins in you
stuck your hand, a light above,

and it supposedly measured the
length of the bones in your hand

that, you know, is unique
in each individual.

It's exactly how it was.

Yeah, that's amazing. It's
amazing you came up with these.

It's amazing
to see this again.

Back then,
this was the hot thing.

What does it feel like when
these little things that you said

become public, and there's
this tiny bit of vindication--

It is, there's little moments
of vindication,

you know, little pieces
here and there,

little I-told-you-so's,
you know,

pop up every couple of years
or so, but this is a big one.

'Cause a lot of people
said these didn't exist,

and, yeah, it was some just...

fanciful thing I came up with.
But, yeah, this is exactly it.

Ideas are the most
dangerous weapons on the planet.

They creep under your skin.

Dormant, volatile, explosive.

They attach to our
collective consciousness.

And then one day, they bubble to the
surface to assert their power...

And when detonated,

life is never the same again.

And we immediately know
we're always wrong.

We're always fucking wrong.

I did not believe that this
should be a security matter.

Some of it, sure.

But just the concept
that there's definite proof...

We even have articles from
another world, another system,

you just can't
not tell everyone.

Checking out Lazar's
credentials prove to be a difficult task.

He says he earned degrees
in physics and electronics,

but the schools we contacted say
they've never heard of him.

He also said he worked as a physicist
at Los Alamos National Lab,

where he experimented with
one of the world's largest

particle beam accelerators,
a half-mile long behemoth

capable of generating
700 million volts.

Los Alamos officials told us

they had no records of a Robert
Lazar ever working there.

They were either
mistaken or were lying.

A 1982 phone book
from the lab lists Lazar

right there among the other
scientists and technicians.

A 1982 clipping from
the Los Alamos newspaper

profiled Lazar and his
interest in jet cars.

It, too, mentioned his employment
at the lab as a physicist.

We called Los Alamos again, and
an exasperated official told us

he still had
no records on Lazar.

EG&G, which is where Lazar
says he was interviewed

for the job at S4,
also has no records.

It's as if someone has
made him disappear.

One thing that people say
about your story and your experience

is that you were a puppet,
a marionette,

that you had no control over
what was going on at that time,

that you were taken advantage of
or compromised,

and you were being used
as a source of disinformation.

And what evidence
to support that?

Right--Yeah.

And what's the evidence
to support those claims?

Is that just something to say? No,
I'm just saying, that's the kind--

If you make a statement,
you have to have some evidence

to say where the
statement came from.

You're basing it on
emotion and fear.

And you're afraid
that I'm right.

Tell me what you've heard
that makes this impossible.

I'm trying to tell you
exactly the way things were.

Where is it? Show me the alternate
reality that you believe

that doesn't lock up
with my actual reality.

I mean, where are those other
facts? Show me what they are,

these facts you
grabbed together

and painted a different story
of my life than I did.

I mean, I thought I set the
record straight 30 years ago.

Can we ever be made
whole if we're not believed?

If our life story
is challenged by consensus?

Most of us are not forced to
answer for our past.

We couldn't really navigate this moment
with an irreverence of what came before.

But some people are placed
under a microscope.

Their words, their actions
scrutinized and challenged.

And then they're told to
quiet the lies.

How much can a man take before he submits
to the weight and consequence of distrust?

Does he fade back into the
shadows that formed him?

Or does he lash out?

To carve his words
into your flesh.

I don't know
what else can I say.

What else can I say?
How can I prove anything else?

At the
worst-case scenario,

you lied for a girl
or you lied to get a job.

What does that mean
about your story?

Do you think Los Alamos just
hired me out of high school?

If you don't think
that's possible,

then something had to
happen in between.

I don't understand how everybody
gets so caught up in the minutiae.

Because you can debate
that stuff forever.

We can go back before MIT.

And you can start fighting
whether or not,

and where I lived
in high school.

That is not going to translate
into answering the questions

and the things that I have
brought into the public eye.

That's the important stuff.

It almost seems like this is
an intentional distraction.

You need to pay attention
to the bigger picture.

If you really want to
research all the other stuff,

fine, go ahead and do it.

But you really need to pay
attention to what I'm saying.

'Cause I have better things
to do than come up with this.

I'm not interested
in doing this.

I'm not... I don't like being
in the public eye.

I don't have money
for doing this.

And quite frankly,
I could make up a better lie.

But I have
no motivation to lie.

This hasn't helped me out.

What does that mean for Lazar's story that
we can't prove his schooling in fact?

It was a problem,
I mean, I wondered,

can we go forward
if we can't verify

what was going on
in his background?

The central point for me was,
if he worked at Los Alamos,

that suggests he had to
have an education somewhere.

I think he said it to me
a couple of times, you know.

"What do you think, they hired
me right out of high school?"

I looked at people
who knew him back then,

Jim Taliani for one,
who said,

"Yeah, Bob went to Caltech back then.
I dropped him off."

I interviewed another person
who also knew Bob then

and said that he would
drop him off at Caltech,

or pick him up
from the library.

That, if he wasn't
going to school there,

he sure was making
a good show of it back then.

Would it prove his story about
working on flying saucers

if he could show he had
degrees from Caltech and MIT?

No, of course not.

It would not prove that he
worked on flying saucers,

it would just prove
that he went to school.

The people who despise him

and who doubt the story the
most, the debunkers,

would find something else
to bitch about.

Bob got into some trouble after he
became a worldwide UFO celebrity,

he did a typical
Bob-sort-of-a-thing

and got mixed up with some
hookers, he was helping them

set up a mini brothel
in a neighborhood.

And when he told me about it,
I thought, "Oh, my gosh!"

My professional life
is flashing before my eyes.

The most high-profile witness in
the biggest story I've ever done

is now telling me he's involved
in this criminal enterprise,

and he kind of thought
it was funny.

But it wasn't funny to me, so I
said, "You got to stop this stuff,

you got to shut this down."
I called the cops.

I let some people know,
"Look, he made a mistake,

it's being shut down."

They raided the place, arrested Bob.
And in those days,

they weren't many people
who were ever prosecuted

and arrested for pandering.
Lazar was.

So, Parole and Probation,

they're doing
a background investigation,

and they're going to make
a recommendation to the court

what the sentence
should be for his crimes.

He tells them the same story.
Where he went to school,

where he worked, S4,

MIT, Caltech, all that.
And they investigated.

They were having the same
problems that I was having.

They couldn't verify
a lot of this stuff.

If Bob truly was
a UFO con man,

that was the time
to come clean.

Because Parole and Probation
was ticked off.

They thought he was
misleading them.

And as a result of that,
they were going to recommend,

they did recommend, that he
do hard time, go to prison.

He knew it. That was the time
for him to come clean.

Because it was a much better chance
that he would not be sent to prison.

He didn't.
He stuck to his story.

He told them the same story
that he told me.

That went a long way for me

in showing that he had
been telling the truth.

Because it was definitely in his
own self-interest to fess up

at that point, and that's not what he did.
He stuck to his guns.

And here's the thing,
I could see Bob Lazar

pranks the UFO world
and the UFO community,

I could see him doing
something like that.

But does he lie
to his mom and dad?

Does he lie to his wife?

Does he lie to all of his close
friends and tell them the same story

and try to get away with it?

If you look back on the people who
knew him while this was going on,

who knew him before he was
hired to work out at S4,

who knew him during the time he was
going back and forth out there,

and who stuck by him

after this whirlwind
of international publicity

kind of rained down
on his head.

Everyone who knew him,
everyone who was close to him

supports his story and says
he's telling the truth.

You saw something up
there that you think might have been--

I hate... I really hate to say
stuff that I can't put my hands on

and say this is
absolutely for sure. What did you see?

I walked down the hallway and, one
time, I was working out there

and there were doors, the
doors that go to the hangars,

the smaller doors from the
corridors that have a 9-inch,

or 12-inch square window with a
little wires running through it

just about head level,
and as I was walking by,

I just glanced in
and I noticed...

At a quick glance, there was...

There were two guys
in white lab coats

facing me towards the door and
they were looking down and talking

to something small
with long arms.

Now, I was just surprised as I walked
by and I only caught a glimpse.

But I don't know
what on earth that was.

People say you saw an alien.
Did you see an alien at S4, Bob?

I don't think
I saw an alien at S4.

You know, we're
splitting hairs here.

This had to do with a
glance through a window

that I wasn't supposed
to be looking at anyway.

And I'm still convinced.

I looked in the window and I
think these guys had a doll

in a small chair which was, you know,
similar to what was in the craft.

And I think they were
just looking at dimensions

and they put
something in there.

And I had just taken a glance
and it was just, you know,

something tiny
sitting in the chair.

I don't think there was an alien
in there posing for them.

You know, I think they just had
a small character or something.

You know, doing measurements or something.
Again, we're talking about, you know,

like a 400 millisecond
glance, so...

Now, how much
can you see out of that?

I never saw any aliens
walking around there.

I never heard anybody saying
anything about living aliens, so...

I don't think that was it.

But they did have a nickname
for the aliens--

"The kids."

The kids.

Is someone else here?

Maybe visitors
interested in us?

In our genes, in our souls?

Maybe we're property,
just a goddamn commodity.

Or like livestock.

Maybe they'd like
our condors and cupcakes.

A kimono or a top hat,
who the fuck knows?

Or maybe, every single
sighting of things in the sky

is a product of our
collective consciousness.

A false hope that humanity
desperately needs

intervention
by external powers.

We've always looked
to the skies for answers

instead of looking
into ourselves.

All right, so when, at
what point... Describe the evolution

of your knowledge here, I mean,
that you realized that this thing

that you were working on
came out of a flying saucer?

Well, of course, I know that
technology doesn't exist at all.

Why? It doesn't.

Take my word for it.

It's...

It's just technology
that doesn't exist yet.

I mean, you're talking
about... There is...

Science doesn't even know
what gravity is,

much less how to
produce it or control it.

And here is a device that's
producing it and controlling it

and using it as propulsion,
so...

You're telling me
there's a different physics?

That was your job,
you were working on that?

The science was something
we were trying to figure out.

But we knew how the devices
would operate.

You know, for instance,
the propulsion of the craft,

everything that we have,

whether it's a propeller plane
or a jet or a rocket,

it throws something
out the back.

Either high-speed exhaust,
or a large volume of air.

It's an
action-reaction force.

The action is, you throw
something out the back,

and it moves you forward,
it's how everything works.

This is the first time
there's a craft,

it's a reaction-less craft.

It's a field-propulsion craft.

And what it does
is it creates a distortion

in space and time in front of
it. Where space actually bends.

And my analogy to that
has always been

you put a bowling ball
in the middle of your bed

and then a foot
in front of it,

take your fist and push
down on the mattress,

the bowling ball
will roll towards it.

And that's exactly
how the craft worked.

It creates a distortion right in front
of it and the craft follows forward.

Right. So there's
a different physics that--

Well, the science that explains
how the technology works.

I mean, it's all
encompassed as one thing,

alien technology and science.

What is the big picture?

What is the takeaway of your
story after you're gone?

You're not a rebel kid

with a jet car
at Los Alamos today.

Today's a different
Bob Lazar, right?

Right. What have we learned?

What's the message
of your story?

The big thing is the suppression
of extremely advanced technology.

And the suppression of
unknown science. That's it.

Those two things,

to me, is the only thing that's important
about what was going on out there.

Yeah, there's
another civilization

and, like I've said before,
that's a crime

not to tell humanity about that,
but that's a separate thing.

Meaning that there is something
different in science dramatically

that we're not
allowed to know? Right.

Right. That is a true statement?

Yeah, that's a true statement.

The fact that there is another intelligent,
technologically advanced civilization,

we have some of their objects.

That is really the pinnacle,

that there is another
civilization in existence

that's intelligent
that we know about.

And we actually have artifacts
from them that can operate.

So, I mean,
that's a big, big deal.

But, in my mind, there's
a lot to deal with that.

However, the science and technology
can change us dramatically,

can change the way
the entire world operates,

the economy, everything.

So those stick out in my mind
as being critically important.

And we have it? Oh, we have them.

You don't have to believe it,
but we do.

And you've seen it? I've seen it.

And you've touched it?

I've dismantled it.

After you're exposed to it,
just for a little while,

it begins to settle in your
mind, these are normal things.

Like, "Okay, 115 belong there on the
chart, and these... this flies,

and this is how gravity works,
great."

It's like someone being...
From the 1800s being exposed

to a car for a few days. He takes
it for granted very quickly.

The most shocking thing was when I
actually got to look inside the disc,

the seats in the panel
associated with them

were very small, they were, you know,
perhaps that far off the ground.

Like something...
Now, you've...

If we had made something like that we
wouldn't have made it to fit children.

It was, uh...

It just lead me to believe,
with the size

of the alien cadavers
that I saw,

with the size of the seats
inside...

Memory is a mirage
and mistress to desire,

shapeshifting and ethereal.

She's inherently
elusive and malleable.

We acknowledge her if it suits
our fantasy in the moment.

We fear her because
she's unpredictable.

Can we trust our own memories?

What if we can't?
What if we can?

Can we return to
the scene of the crime

to extract hidden details

and to see more clearly
what we thought we saw?

I was told... The rhythmic
shouting and the constant threats,

that's a form of hypnosis.

When did they...
When did this happen?

Oh, this happened
almost immediately.

They started yelling
and screaming at you?

Yeah.

Fun place to work.

Well, no. Like I said, it was a
terrible atmosphere to work in.

But when you weigh that

with what you're
going to be around,

you'll basically
go through anything.

"Yeah, go ahead. When can we go
back to the flying saucers?"

You did hypnosis

Mmm-hmm. to try to recall details

from your employment
and from the physics...

Right....of what you learned.
Is that correct?

Yeah, that's correct.
With Layne Keck.Okay.

And did you recall anything?

Yeah, I did. I mean, specifics,
things you might have missed.

I basically wanted to try
everything I could

to prove what I was saying.

So this was just another tool.

You're familiar that
hypnosis can work to recall--

Yeah. And I had--
had it done to me before.

So, I'd had proven that, yeah,
this really does do something.

Let's try and remember
some fine details.

You wanted to recall some
physics that you learned there?

Yeah, I wanted to recall
as much as I possibly could.

I mean, so much went
through my mind.

Just imagine all the things
you were seeing.

And everyone is
completely fascinating

and something you haven't seen before.
It's just data overload.

So I was hoping that

hypnosis would get me
relaxed enough

where maybe, everything
was packed so tight together,

maybe I could just start
thumbing through things

and just pick up even a
couple little more tidbits

could paint a bigger
picture and I could,

you know, possibly
explain things better.

Or, you know, possibly locate
some of these other guys

or anything,
any bit of information.

So, yeah.
It was pretty handy.

So you did recall
some things, technically--Yeah.

Technically? Yeah.

Technical things and
probably others too.

More and more
hypnosis is accepted,

however, there's still a lot
of misconceptions about it.

Like what?

Oh. They think that
you go into a trance

and the hypnotist does something
and you don't remember it,

and all of a sudden
your life changes.

And that's not the case at all.
There's no mind control happening.

Take a nice deep breath.

Close your eyes
and just think relaxation.

Now, just think about your
head and relax your head.

Now, what I want you to do

is to get as comfortable
as you possibly can.

And just relax completely.

Now, double your relaxation

and the number 100
will be there.

One, zero, zero.

Double your relaxation.

And the number 99
will come right on in.

Bob. Bob.

From this moment on...

From this moment on,

you will recall and remember
the material that you seek.

And no one or nothing,
past, present or future

will stand in your way.

Bob. Bob. Bob.

You will remember
because you desire

to remember.

To remember.

At one point,

he was in hypnosis,

I think he was
drawing a reactor.

He was trying to recall
what was in the books.

He saw in the book
and then I told him,

"Well, you'll come up and open your
eyes, and you will be able to draw."

And he did. But it
didn't mean anything to him.

But it was a drawing
that he drew this way.

Oh, no way! But it was this way.

And so afterwards,
he looked at it,

you know, he came back over
and sat down here for a while

and, "Oh, that's because..."
All he had to do was turn it.

So that's the superconscious

and literal, the subconscious
takes things literal.

Right. Like, it's
like the mind is absorbing

all this stuff, and then he discovers
what his mind had absorbed.

He's remembering. Yeah.

I was writing so fast.

I can't imagine
what you were thinking too.

Because you're discovering
with them that kind of shock.

What's the truth?

Hypnosis is the best possible
tool of getting to the truth.

If a person makes
things up normally,

they can lie under hypnosis just
as easily as out of hypnosis.

But if they're really trying to
get to and retrieve information,

then it's the best tool
that I know of.

He came in to find out
what he didn't know.

We were able to go back,
overcome the fear

and bring forth
those memories.

According to Lazar, his
employer was the United States Navy.

He says he and other government
employees would gather near EG&G,

fly to Groom Lake, then a very
few people would get into a bus

with blacked-out or no
windows and ride to S4.

So, you get off
the bus, what do you see?

It's a very interesting
building, it's got a slope

of probably about 30 degrees.

Which are hangar doors.

And it has textured paint on
it, but it looks like sand.

It's made to look like
the side of a mountain.

Whether to disguise it from
satellite photographs or what.

He says he was never
told exactly what he'd be working on

but figured it had something to
do with advanced propulsion.

On his first day, he was told
to read a series of briefings

and immediately realized how
advanced the propulsion was.

The power sources
and antimatter reactor,

they run gravity amplifiers.

There's actually two parts
to the drive mechanism.

Uh, it's a bizarre technology.

There's no physical hookup between
any of the systems in there.

They use gravity as a wave, using
wave guides, almost like microwaves.

Polygrapher Terry Tavernetti
runs a corporate security operation

and is a former
Los Angeles police officer.

He put Lazar
through four tests

and concluded there was
no attempt to deceive.

I left there
thinking that, um...

...I feel we do have some credibility
to what the subject had to say.

And that's when I went
to some of my colleagues.

Tavernetti sent the
test results to a third polygrapher

who agreed the results
appeared truthful.

Bob has explained
to me multiple times,

he tried everything in his
power to prove his story.

I wanted to feel
better for myself.

So I said, "Hey, would you be willing
to undergo a polygraph test?"

He did not hesitate.
He said, "Yes."

Four different tests on four
different areas of Bob's claims,

and he said afterwards, "There was
no attempt to deceive at all."

He's telling what he believes
to be the truth.

I have asked the question
many times over the years,

"How did Bob Lazar know this
stuff if he wasn't there?"

He knew there was
a place called S4.

I called Dallas Air Force Base
public information office.

They confirmed. Told me there
really was a place called S4.

Now, there's no news story
prior to Bob Lazar

about any place called S4.

He knew about it.
He also knew EG&G

had arranged to
hire personnel,

that if you were going to get
a job out of Groom Lake,

EG&G was the company
that you would go through.

He knew that there had been
investigators at his home

for the background check,
he remembered the guy's name.

It was an odd name Mike Thigpen.
Now, how did he know?

How did he know that Mike Thigpen works for
a federal agency that does this stuff?

After 30 years, and this guy
dodging you, I found Mike Thigpen.

I found Thigpen. That's amazing.

I couldn't believe it.
He's on the east coast.

I called him, I've talked
with him multiple times.

You know, he won't go on camera
because he doesn't want to

kind of put a dark shadow upon
the work that he did before,

but, personally, he conveyed
to me that that was his job,

that was exactly what he did
in Las Vegas in 1989.

And, in fact,
he remembers Bob Lazar.

Most
important thing Bob knew

is that they were flying something that
looks exactly like the flying saucer

over Papoose Lake.

And they flew up
on Wednesday nights.

And he took people out
there three weeks in a row

and showed it to them.

And at least once, maybe twice, they
recorded it on video. That's real.

How did Bob know that?
There had been no stories

about test flights and flying
saucers at Papoose Lake.

And by the way, that's where it was.
It wasn't over Groom Lake,

it was over Papoose Lake.

We checked out so many
details that Bob had told us

that turned out to be true.

The existence of S4.
Element 115

really did become an element
years later

that Bob had been consulted
by the lab

which first synthesized
man-made element 115.

There was a whole long string of
things that he knew that checked out.

These milestones
along the way,

no matter how much
we nitpick it apart,

no matter how much people
don't want to believe it,

the evidence that he's telling the truth
outweighs the evidence that he's not.

Well, I agree with you. And
if I did not believe that,

I would not still be working
on the story,

I would not be publicly
defending Bob Lazar.

What was your
function at working on this,

you were doing what?

What was your job?

We were to
reverse-engineer

the power and propulsion
system of this craft

and see if it can be duplicated
with available materials.

I just want to
go over with you

what is it that you saw, to draw it
out for people, to make a sketch.

As you're seeing it, as if
you're there at that moment.

You've got to go
back in the past.

Something I termed,
the "Sport Model."

Underneath this floor,

there are three...

Three large
cylindrical devices.

These are on mounts
that allow them

to completely swivel
up to 180 degrees,

and in 360-degree rotation.

Directly above each one

is a small rectangular object.

This is on the floor above.

And these are the gravity
amplifiers themselves.

Looking down from the top,

you'd have the center.
In the very center,

there is a small reactor.

Surrounding this,

in three equally-spaced areas
are the amplifiers.

So, this is looking at it sideways, this
is looking at it down from the top.

And under these amplifiers,
underneath the floor below

are the gravity emitters.

So it's the reactor here
powering the gravity amplifiers.

Gravity amplifiers' output goes into
the gravity emitters at the bottom,

and the resulting gravity beam
or anti-gravity wave can be

pretty much put
anywhere you want to.

Um...

There was
another level up here.

Now, I had access
and was permitted

to view and look at the
operation of this main level,

with the gravity amplifiers
and the level below,

the gravity emitters.

There is a level above,

which consisted of these two areas
that I'm not all that familiar with.

I assume these to be some sort
of navigational engine.

People called these large
black rectangular areas

on the top "potholes,"
I believe they were

some planar sensor array

that just took in information
from the surrounding area,

whether it be patterns of
stars or what have you.

And there was their version of a computer
or something to make determinations here

that takes input
from those sensors

and then lets the craft know
how to orient itself

and where it was in space.

So, that's what I
assume to be out there.

I don't know for a fact, again,
that was not part of my job,

and I was only led
to believe that.

The center antenna is really an
extension of the reactor in the center.

And that's a wave guide
which allows

the emission of the gravity wave,
which forms kind of a heart-shape

over the whole craft.

That's how it creates
its distortion.

These gravity emitters can be swung
all the way up to 180 degrees.

And this allows the craft
to essentially stand

on two of them and hover

while this one swings up and creates
a distortion in front of it,

allowing the craft
to slide forward.

So that's how their
low-power mode

omicron configuration
operates.

The delta configuration
uses all three.

And unlike science-fiction movies
where you see flying saucers

just flying on like that,

they actually fly belly first.
The craft flies along,

leaves the atmosphere of the planet,
it turns its belly to the destination,

the three amplifiers
focus in on the destination,

and that's how it proceeds.

So that's basically
the operation of it

and overall how things were
laid out inside the craft.

This is
an alien spacecraft.

Right. Obviously.

This was the
Albuquerque Journal.

Is that the particle
accelerator you had? Yeah.

The guy that promised
not to say anything

that won't say anything
about the UFOs.

The article's titled...

"'UFO Guy' in Spotlight."

Thanks, dude.

Isn't that when, after this came in
there, then the fire department, police,

the zoning commission, everybody
descended on our house.

Yeah, and wanted to know who. Here's
"Lab Supplier in Controversy."

Oh, look at that.

So originally, the thing was
supposed to be about what?

What did the guy
say the article--

The hydrogen car, I think--Well, the raid.
It was about the raid.

This one? Yeah, that's why,

"Lab Supplier in Controversy."
Yeah. Oh, okay.

The raid in New Mexico.

The guy called, and he said, "Hey, I
heard about the raid and all that.

Can I come and do that?"

And then he says, "Are you
Bob Lazar, the Area 51 guy?"

I said, "Yeah,

but I don't want to get into that,
this is something more important."

He said, "Oh, yeah, we won't
even mention it, no problem."

Literally, your house
was taken over by a SWAT team?

Yeah.Yes.

They don't just send a letter
in the mail or call us.

Right. Have the whole SWAT team

invite themselves
to our home.

Hidden things
are the most seductive.

Secrets reach
deep into our desire.

They titillate and torment us
like a ticking clock

or a distant alarm
with no origin.

They agitate us
and force us to react.

They endanger
our complacency.

There was a missing element
to your faith.

But that's the
nature of faith,

that there is something
out there that hovers

and promises salvation.

Your call has been forwarded
to an automated voice messaging system.

At the tone,
please record your message.

Hey, Jeremy,
it's Bob Lazar.

Listen. I have
something to ask you.

Something's really come up
that's important.

If you would text me

and let me know when is a
good time to call you,

I don't want you to call me.

I just need to run
something by you,

okay? Thanks, bye.

All right. So the
only record of this

is going to be on the audio
on this one file

and then this video clip,
I'm not going to cut it.

I'm going to let it run.Understood.

Okay. And then what I'm going
to do is to encrypt it,

and then I'm going to put both of those
two files into an encrypted thing

to not be touched unless we
decide it should be touched.

Yeah, that's fine.Okay.

It'll be on two drives. But those two files
will both be in an encrypted folder.

So here's the deal.

Did you ever get a piece of
element 115 out of Los Alamos?

...I don't know how much
monitoring they do with me.

I'm sure it's virtually none
after all this time.

The same thing--Hold on a second.

Do you have your phone on you? Yes.

Let's, at this point,

take our phone... Let me put
them on the ground over there.

I'll turn mine off.

I mean, maybe this has been
kept from us for a good reason.

A lot of people agree
to keep this secret.

So, first of all,
who am I to upset it?

And second of all, who am I
to outthink these guys.

Maybe they went over
all these scenarios already,

and they know how fucked
up everything will be.

So, there's no guarantee
that this revelation

is going to make
everything great.

There's just as much chance it's
going to make everything terrible

and I'll be to
blame for that.

They identified
themselves as FBI

and they said,
"You're Bob Lazar, right?"

And, you know, one of them
got on the radio

saying, "Yeah, he's here."

Apparently, they also had
my house staked out.

And they were deciding
whether or not to go there.

The conveyor belt
of vehicles and agents

and police did not stop.
The whole thing...

It was like
aTwilight Zone episode.

They came in and they said, "There'll
be a few other people coming here,

just got a couple
of questions to ask you."

In a short time, the street
filled up with vehicles

and the building completely
filled with agents.

It was really something else.

Did they identify
themselves initially--

Yeah, it was FBI,
identified themselves.

Then came in state police

and a few other agencies,
I don't remember who.

But, there were a lot.
Awful lot.

Standing room only in the
building. It was crazy.

They had like a forensic truck,
they had a bunch of different agents,

they gridded off the building.
I mean, obviously,

they were looking
for something.

Yeah. And what they said, they
were looking into some paperwork,

an old order from two years ago
about a customer that, you know,

ordered some
potentially toxic material,

which they could
have called for.

But this was certainly way
over-the-top.

I looked up to select the right key
and they were right beside me.

It was quite surprising,

considering you can see all
around here,

and there-- generally would have to be
a vehicle or something Somewhere...

But I just pulled up,
got out, picked the key,

and they started talking from behind me.
I thought that was really strange.

Of course, it got much
stranger as the day went on.

What got
stranger about it?

Well, just the sheer amount
of people that came.

Agency after agency.

I mean, they had computer
experts here going through,

you know, all the computer
equipment we had here,

and they had people
sectioning off the building,

labeling it in cubic meters
so they can search each one.

You know, what they were looking
for was just an order form.

So, very strange.

You've been raided two times? Twice.

By more agencies than I can
really recall.

The FDA to the NRC,

the FBI, but they
usually come en masse.

And it's hard to
pick out who's who.

So this is beryllium? Yeah.

And what is it used for again?

It's used in aerospace,
it's very lightweight.

Quite strong...

And high-temperature metal.

Do you think that
you were shaken down...

To some degree you're being fucked with?

I don't think they're
just fucking with me.

I am convinced there's
ulterior motives.

I firmly suspect
that there's a lot more to it

than they're saying.
That they're looking for

something else.

What they're supposed to do

is tie you up, put you
in the middle of the room,

have everyone watching you
so that, you know,

collaborate a story or, you know,
try to trick them or what not.

So they just kept us all
in separate rooms.

There's bomb squad,
computer squad...

I think they had
like a biological hazard squad,

hazmat squad,
everything, the full gamut.

'Cause they had no idea
what we had in our shop

or, like, what
we're capable of,

or are we going to retaliate
or anything like that.

So, it was pretty much
the full Michigan FBI was here.

I mean, they had the van, they
had multiple cars lined up,

you know, so...

I mean, looking at Bob's
life, there's always this suspicion

that there's something more
going on on shaking him down

because he had that
experience before.Yeah.

Yeah, so this was the
second time that I know of

that he's gotten raided, so he's
always had, like, this kind of

knowledge that there's somebody
watching, no matter what he does.

There's always somebody
watching you.

And it does have to be related to,
what, the Area 51 stuff and all that.

You know, they kind of
put him on the list.

I think they do like toying with
him and keeping an eye on him.

But I don't believe
that it's like

they're opening up a 30-year-old
file and they're like,

"All right, we're going to
crack down on the Bob story.

We're going to find out what he had,
what more information he's got."

I don't think that they're
necessarily doing that,

but I do think that there's,
like, a culture,

maybe within these agencies.
They know who this guy is.

And they'll have, you know... They'll
look for any reason that they can

to kind of, you know,
poke him with some thorns

and make sure that he knows
who's watching him.

I believe that.

It's too coincidental
for it all to be just

some luck of the draw, basically.
Like, there's something going on.

Everybody
knows the story is

that you guys had element 115 at Los
Alamos, that's public knowledge.

Something you said
a while back.

Do you think that what
happened had to do with that?

We are not going there.

Are they trying to
shake you down to find the 115

that you said, 30 years ago,
that you got out of the lab?

People are going to ask that.

Yeah. So let's just address that.

If you feel comfortable
addressing it...

No.

You do not feel comfortable
addressing it?

No, I don't feel comfortable
addressing it.

You would think after 30
years, who cares what I have to say?

I'm more convinced than ever that the
key to the story is element 115.

If you could
get to that piece

and have it
independently analyzed,

I think it would prove beyond all question
that it came from somewhere else.

We didn't make it.

And it would go a long way to establishing
the story that was told by Bob Lazar

as truth, so I think
about that a lot.

I think about
the cloud chamber experiment.

I get a lot of emails
from people who say,

"Oh, God. Where is this video?
You owe it to the world

to show this video,
cough it up."

And I tell them,
"Look, I've looked for it,

I've got all these boxes
of crap and stuff and tape

and news clippings, and I've looked
for it and I can't find it."

But when somebody like you comes and
talks to me about the Bob Lazar story,

it gets the juices flowing, you know.
I can't help it, I'm human.

And right now, I want
to go find that tape.

I went through every tape

that Bob had in his
personal home archive

and one of those tapes on the outside
in tiny, tiny little scribble

said, "cloud chamber."

And lo and behold,

there's about just less than a minute
of that cloud chamber test on tape.

I have it.

People have been so
pissed at me over the years

that I can't find that tape, or if
they think I'm hiding it on purpose.

But I've looked everywhere
for it.

And if you've found it,
that's awesome.

I did. Now here's the deal in
typical, you know, Bob-Lazar fashion,

there's only about
a minute of it.

However, after all these years, 30
years, we have some footage of it.

But it doesn't prove shit,
because it's recorded over--

I was there the night that they
did the cloud chamber test.

I couldn't tell you what it was, I
didn't know what a cloud chamber was.

This "beam" of light was bent.

And it was bent
because they had element 115

in as part of the experiment.

Well, that's pretty important, that
would be huge to include in the story.

I spent time trying to understand
why everybody was saying

this 115 being stabilized
is pseudoscience.

So I called some of the top
heavy-element physicists on the planet

from Russia to up in San
Francisco to Washington, DC.

And I spoke with, you know,
about eight or nine,

but three in particular who had really
talked to me in depth about it.

All of them, across the board,
said, "You cannot rule out

a stabilized version
of element 115.

In fact, that we
believe it is theorized

that in the island of stability,
that it would and could

and probably does exist."

So their way of saying is,
"We can't rule it out."

So, all the people saying
that is pseudoscience,

what Bob said about element
115, I wanted to find out

is it pseudoscience?

And definitively, we cannot rule out
a stabilized form of element 115.

I'm sorry, it is not
pseudoscience.

And after doing
this research,

you know, that argument
no longer holds water.

Makes perfect sense
that it could be stable.

And scientists have said it
for a long time.

So, of course you
can't rule it out.

Again, if you want to
disbelieve Bob,

if you want to cross him off
the list and say he's a fraud,

then your research goes
one inch deep,

and you say element 115 as he
described it, can't exist,

and then move on.

If you want to be honest about it and
dig further into it and understand it,

then you're going to find out that, in
fact, what Bob says does make sense,

it can be true.

Element 115 was
what we would call the fuel

that provided the power
for the reactor to work.

What happens
with gravity and 115?

Element 115 affects gravity.

Element 115 produces
its own gravitational energy.

It had a very specific
manufacturing technique.

I don't really know how that
information came to be.

Its code name
was "LA 1000."

That's what it was
referred to off-site.

Its purpose

was supposed to be, again, this
is just a code in deception,

was supposed to be
an advanced armor.

So, it's not a usual material, so now
we can take it to a national lab.

This is LA 1000, classified material,
it's a very advanced armor.

That takes care of all
the weird questions.

So, you know, you immediately
start operating on lies.

This...

fuel

is in the form of a...

just a three-dimensional thin
triangle, little rounded edges.

It's somewhat copper in color.

You know that
reddish brownish...

The way this is manufactured
is really critical.

It's not just cut out
of a heavy sheet of material.

A cylinder of this
material is taken.

This is machined

into a cone. So this is...

The outer part is shaved off using
a lathe or something like that,

until you have a
three-dimensional cone.

Once you have the cone...

it's sliced...

like this.

And these slices become that.

Now, even this
starting piece,

the solid cylinder,
is not even a solid cylinder.

It consists of many discs
stacked up.

And these are fused together
to produce that.

And all of these steps are necessary
to produce a successful triangle

that makes fuel. So, actually,
you know, if you were

to look at how this came to
be, this would actually be

pieces of all these discs that
were cut at unusual angles.

Now, apparently,
if you don't do all this,

that doesn't work.

Unfortunately, that's the
extent of my knowledge on this.

This makes no sense anywhere.

But, that's what it takes
for it to operate.

Now, with the alien technology
that was present in the craft,

it takes that basis,

that extra gravitational
energy in a small reactor

amplifies it through the
equipment there,

directs it through
the wave guides and archways

into the emitters

and allows it to
propel the craft

and manipulate the gravity wave
for whatever use they want.

How can this be true?
I don't believe a word of this.

But you expect people
to believe this?

No, I'm not going to change anyone's mind.
That's not my intention.

I'm just relaying the experience,
the job that I went through.

It is a fantastic thing.
It's a fantastic story.

But it's true?

It's true. These crafts
came from another...

Not just another planet,
another solar system entirely.

Extremely far away.

And they're here.

I mean, I've been making
fireworks since I was 12.

And professional fireworks
for at least 20 years.

Fireworks aren't just fun, they're
artistic. It's like painting the sky.

Controlling a large amount of
energy has always been impressive.

SinceThe New
York Times story broke,

since Lou Elizondo came forward,
sending those videos, went public,

the world is now talking about
UFOs in a more serious vein.

I think that's a good thing and
I think it reflects positively

on Bob Lazar's story.

And I hope that the world
will take another look at it.

That's the jet
bike, the jet car...

Yeah, to take, you know,
a large amount of energy

which would normally be
thought to be out of control,

to take that and harness it
and have it do what you want

has always been
impressive to me.

The easy way out is to say,
"He's a liar, he's making it up."

It's hard to go ahead
and accept the possibility

that he's telling the truth.

But if I did not believe it,

if I thought for a moment
that he was lying about it,

I'd be done with it.

I wouldn't still be
supporting it 30 years later.

Your life has
been under a microscope.

Every word you said for 30 years
recorded has been under a microscope,

and that's affected you.

Yeah, of course it has.
It would affect anybody.

How has it affected you?

In the way I talk
and how much I do.

I'd rather not, you know, in a public
forum, I'd rather just not say anything.

Why do you think
people are so obsessed

with every word that you say
about your experiences?

They're just looking for a way
to look for an inaccuracy

and to be able
to discount the whole thing.

"Oh, he said this one time, and said
it slightly different this time.

You know, obviously,
he's making it up."

You know, that's just the first
word that entered my mind.

You know, I don't put that much
thought into what I'm saying.

Look, as much as
a lot of people hate it,

this stuff really happened.

I mean, if it bothers you,
that's too bad.

I think that's just hard
for people to accept. I mean, so--

Yeah, it would be, right...
I fully understand.

I would feel the same way.

I'm not sure
I would believe my story.

"Boy, there's not enough
evidence," you know,

but I couldn't
discount it either.

The fact is, the people that
know him best believe him the most.

I hope that one thing that comes
across in your film is the real Bob.

Once you get to know him, it becomes
much more plausible as a story.

He's not lying to his mom and
his wife and all his friends.

He's not lying to the UFO
world either.

You saw alien ships? Yeah.

You worked on a gravity wave
amplification system,

trying to figure it out?

Right, a propulsion system
and a power source

that's completely
unknown to mankind.

And there's no way human
beings could have made it?

There is no way human
beings could have made it,

under any circumstances in any
country anywhere. Period.

And for 30 years, you are
telling us the truth?

You bet.

This shit happened? You got it.

You know, the fact is that that
raid that happened back in Michigan,

that's a very dramatic and a
very important development.

They weren't there
looking for records

about some customer
he had a couple of years ago,

they were looking for 115.

When you bring two dozen
agents and investigators

and crime lab analysts,

you can bring people to duplicate the
whole computer and all that stuff,

they're looking
for something else.

They're sure as hell are not
looking for a minor receipt.

People may not believe that 115
is real, but somebody does,

'cause that's what they
came to look for.

You know, if you want to cross it off
and you don't want to believe it, fine.

I don't care anymore whether
people believe it or not.

But Bob's telling the truth.

And once you realize that, it
changes everything for you.

It changed everything for me.

To crack a life
open at its seams,

to dissect and examine its
contents is unnerving.

Like the reading of omens
by viewing the entrails.

We all tell our own stories.

And sometimes we
even believe them.

And sometimes,

we tell them one last time.

If you don't believe it,
that's your problem.

What you do with
that is up to you.

Well, I am telling the truth.

I've tried to prove that.
What's going on up there

could be the most important
event in history.

You're talking about contact,
physical contact

and proof from another system, another
planet, another intelligence.

That's got to be the biggest
event in history. Period.

And it's real.
It's real and it's there.

And I had an extremely
small part in it,

but I'm convinced that what I
saw is absolute proof of that.

There is no way we could have
created those systems.

There's no way we could have made
the discs, the power supplies,

anything to go with it.

Lazar says he has no intention of
going on any UFO lecture circuit.

He's not looking to do
any additional interviews.

In fact, he wasn't too crazy
about doing this one.

He did it after certain
unfavorable things

started happening
in his life.

And he did it because he feels
that whoever is running the show

up at S4 is perpetrating a
fraud on the American people

and on the
scientific community.

We intend to have much
more about this story,

about the operation up there
on Monday and beyond.

This is by no means the end
of this series of reports.

In fact, on Monday,
including in our story there,

supporting testimony from other
people who say they have knowledge

of the flying discs
at the test site

and information from people
who know Lazar very well

and insist
his story is true.

Even if they have
these flying saucers, George,

it seems like it would be really
hard to keep it so secret.

Well, yeah, it would
seem that way.

Except for as Lazar
asked his superiors up there,

and they say it's the easiest
secret in the world to keep.

It's leaked out many times
before and nobody believes it.

But what's the Navy saying
about all of this?

Well, of course, the Navy is
supposed to have been his employer,

and we have... some fairly
pointed questions to them.

Of course, number one,
it may not be the Navy at all.

Information is so
compartmentalized up there,

no one is exactly sure
who is in charge.

We have put the questions
to several Navy departments,

the answers, thus far,
have been unsatisfactory.

We've applied for more information
through the Freedom of Information Act.

And that information will be
revealed on Monday as well.

You believe his story,
don't you?

Yeah, I do. Yeah, I got to know him pretty
well over the last couple of months,

and I believe he's
telling the truth.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, George.