Beginning (2020) - full transcript

BEGINNING

BE GRATEFUL TO GOD,
AS HE IS THE KINDEST

Come in, come in.

Go sit there.

Go on.

Sit down.

Don't you dare turn around.

You naughty boys.

Does your hand hurt?

You're looking out the window?
Turn and face the wall.

Come in.



How are you?

Take a seat.

Hello, how are you?

Go take a seat.

Come in, come in.

Hello. Please stay seated.

I'm well, thank you.

Please have a seat.

What did they do?

They were playing football
and got all dirty.

Little devils.

They wouldn't stop.

Come in, come in.

Come in, come in.



Take a seat.

How are you?

Hello.

Hello.

How is your wife?

Hello, take a seat.

Hello.

Take a seat.

Let's close the blinds.

And the door.

Don't make a sound.

Good afternoon, brothers and sisters.

How are you today?

I'm fine, thank you.

Today we're going to talk
about an important subject.

And we'll share valuable insights
with each other.

Let's begin our conversation

with a seemingly simple story,

told in the Bible.

We all know
who Abraham is, right?

What do you think
Abraham is doing in this picture?

Does he really intend
to kill Isaac, his only son?

What does the Bible say?

The Bible says...

"Abraham built an altar
and arranged the wood on it."

"He bound his son Isaac
hand and foot

"and put him on the altar
on top of the wood."

"Then Abraham reached out his hand

"and took the knife

"to kill his son."

"He raised his knife..."

"..and waited."

"But Jehovah's angel
called from the heavens and said,

" 'Abraham!' "

" 'Abraham!' "

" 'Here I am!'

"answered Abraham.

" 'Do not harm the boy...' "

" '..and do nothing to him...

" 'for now I know
that you are God-fearing...' "

" '..because you have not withheld

" 'your only son

" 'from God.' "

What is the moral of this story?

What does the Bible teach us?

Why did Jehovah ask Abraham

to sacrifice

his only son?

Who would like to answer?

Sister Lena,

since you raised your hand...

Jehovah wanted to test Abraham,

to make his faith...

- Stronger, right?
- Yes, stronger.

That's right,

thank you.

You may sit down.

Now, building on this story,

how should a true Christian
behave in everyday life?

Do any of you...

Don't panic!

Keep the children away
from the window!

Stay inside! Don't go out!

Don't panic.

Calm down!

Stay calm! We'll get out!

We need air in here!

Somebody break down the door!

Giorgi.

Giorgi!

Come.

Come!

What's going on here?

There's a fire.

- What?
- There's a fire.

No kidding.

- Leave it open.
- Just for tonight.

It's stifling in here.

They were caught
on the security cameras.

A detective came over from Tbilisi.
He told me to delete the footage.

What a nerve.

What if you don't do it?

He told me to lie low.

Apparently,
we bother the people around here.

The hell with it.

Let's go to bed.

What's wrong?

Nothing.

Did you see their faces
on the footage?

David?

What?

Ask for a transfer.

Where to?

The police won't do anything.

They "won't find them".

It's a bit late tonight, no?

I tell you what -
let's get a good night's sleep.

First thing tomorrow,
we'll run away.

Giorgi has no friends.

I'm uncomfortable going out.

What do you mean?
You grew up here!

I'm fed up, too.

I have to solve this first,
I have no choice.

Then we'll decide.

Come in. Come in.

Can't get to sleep?

Come, sneak into bed.

Hurry up.

You spoil him.

Come on, get in.

If you go on like this,
he'll never become a man.

He's scared.

I understand,
but how can he ever grow up?

When I was his age,
I was running on the rooftops.

Let's get you a kitten.

So you leave him alone.

Come on, don't be angry.

I'm not.

Then come to me.

Come on.

Come, my kitty.

Can't you act like a normal person
and just tell me what you want?

We agreed on this.

I didn't agree.

You said you needed seven years...

..for your career.
I did as you asked.

Every time something happens,
you say the same thing,

"That's it, we're moving.
That's it, we're moving."

It's a perfect time
for your little show.

Go ahead.

I have an awful headache.

Take this.

Give me time.

I need to think.

I'll find a solution.

When we met,

you knew what kind of man I was,

my ambitions, my plans.

You wanted to be with me, right?

Yes...

I did.

There you go.

What's your plan?

Yana, what do you think?

I'll get up early tomorrow
and calculate the costs.

In a month,
we'll have a new prayer house.

At the congress,
I'll try to convince the elders to help.

Go by yourself.

No.

I want to be alone.

They expect us to come as a family.

I won't go alone.

Come with me.

You will rest, meet people...

Meet people!

While you discuss
your construction plans

I'll stay in the hotel room.

Who's forcing you
to stay in the room?

I want to be alone.

Then be alone at the hotel.

Please.

Why do you do this?

Can't you support me
like a normal person?

One week.

You're determined to ruin me,
aren't you?

You can't help yourself.

You've mastered that.

I can't go on like this.

Life goes by...

as if I weren't there.

You need something to do.

Let's find you a job.

I don't know.

Then what do you know?

You knew you couldn't be an actress
and my wife at the same time.

That's not it.

Then what is it?

Tell me exactly.

Something's wrong with me.

It's as if I were waiting...

..for something to start, or to end.

You're overreacting.

You're a very emotional person,
you know that.

Especially under stress.

Come with me and rest.

You don't believe me.

I look into the mirror
and a stranger looks back.

Please don't start this.

I can't handle it.

If you want to talk to someone...

Counselling or therapy, whatever...

It's not a problem,
I'll help you find someone.

But let's keep it between us.

All I need from you now

is your support.

All right?

Nini,

what do you ask Jehovah for?

To make me a good child.

What does it take to be good?

I have to behave well.

What else?

Nika, what do you think?

You have to behave well
and do what God

or your mum and dad tell you.

Good. That's right.

Here's another question -

how can we protect
ourselves from evil?

We shouldn't give in
to evil out of fear

and stay on God's path.

Correct. The Bible says
Satan can take the form of light,

the form of the Angel of Light,

and trick us into doing
what God dislikes.

Yes, you're right.

And we should pray.

You're good kids. Now, on page 9.

Saba, little Saba!

Read, please.

"I am the Lord thy God..."

Wait a minute! Let him read!

"And you shall..."

"And you shall have no other..."

Elene, why is that funny?

"Before me..."

Just a minute!

I really want to know,
what's so funny?

Is this how you want to prepare
for your baptism?

- Yes.
- No.

Who said yes?

Nini.

Enough. Close your books
and leave them on the table.

Good job!

You can go home now.

Be careful crossing the street.

What was that all about,
can you explain?

Nothing, I swear on your life!

I told you never to swear on my life.

You promised to take me
to the toy store.

Not yet.

Come.

Why did we get off the bus?

I'd like to walk a bit.

Come, follow me.

Stay close to me.

Don't fall behind.

Walk close to me.

I can't put it together. Help me.

You can do it.

You're a big boy.

It's not coming together.

Why not?

It's missing a piece.

Let's do it in the morning.

Come sit with me for a while.

Please, let's finish it and play once.

No, it's late.

You need to shower.

No, please.

You want to go to sleep
all dirty like a piglet?

I'm not dirty.

That's enough. Let's go.

Come, sweetheart.

Is your husband at home?

No.

I'm from the police department.

I'd like to talk to you.

What about?

I just have a few questions
regarding the fire.

Can I come in?

Come in.

This way, please.

Are you reading this?

No.

I'm preparing children for baptism.

Really?

Do the kids enjoy it?

I can give you
my husband's phone number.

I have it.

Why don't you call him, then?

I want to talk to you.

Did you watch the footage?

What footage?

From the security cameras.

No.

Your husband...

is a stubborn man, isn't he?

I don't interfere with his business.

What is his business?

He's busy building a prayer house.

It is pointless to talk.
No-one will be arrested.

This is not the first incident.

The local police know who they are,
but no-one is ever arrested.

Do you know...who they are?

No.

I didn't see them.

Do you suspect anyone?

I can't point fingers like that.

But we can't live like this.

I can't let my son go out.

Why? Did something happen?

No, but it might.

Isn't your husband
concerned about this?

Of course he is.

Look, you are a believer.

They have their own faith.

Trust me,
we can find an arrangement.

You also need to understand them.

Please, ask your husband
to withdraw the complaint.

He makes his own decisions.

Of course.

But if I were you...

..I'd use my charms to convince him.

Do you like living here?

Yes, we do.

You've got a really nice place.

Your own little paradise.

I envy you.

Does your husband fuck you
on that couch?

Don't look at me
as if you were a virgin.

Does he fuck you?

If you don't leave right now...

What if I don't?

Will you sit next to me?

No.

Why not?

You think I'll hurt you?

Why would you?

Do I need a reason?

What does your husband like best?

What do you want from me?

You know what?

Let's play a game.

I'll ask questions,
you answer yes or no.

You can add details if you wish.

Does he fuck you on this couch?

- No.
- Lie.

Tell me the truth and I'll go.

Does he fuck you on this couch?

Yes.

See?

We can share things with each other.

You're sick.

Please.

Don't pretend
you're a frigid religious fanatic.

How many times a week
does he fuck you?

What is this for?

You want to change the subject?

Fine.

Does he prefer blowjobs
or fucking you in the ass?

Does he like blowjobs?

No.

Think again.

Does he like you to blow him?

Yes.

And you?

Do you like it too?

Yes.

Say it.

"I like to blow my husband."

I like to blow my husband.

He likes it too.

See? You're opening up.

What about your asshole?

Does he ever ask for that?

Yes, he does.

Are you scared of me?

Yes.

Come.

Come.

You know what I'm going to do?

No.

Anything I want.

It's so nice for two people
just to sit together.

I'm sorry.

Yana, aren't you hungry?

Should we break for lunch?

I'm hungry.

Not yet.

Giorgi.

Are you hungry?

Mum, can I get this?

- No.
- Please!

I said no. Behave yourself.

Come on.

Go play with the kids.

But don't go too far!

I wouldn't let him go.

You spoil him too much.

Who are those children?

I'll be right back.

Excuse me.

Good morning.

How can I help you?

Where do I get a ticket?

- What ticket?
- For the queue.

Oh, that.

We don't use tickets.
It's a live queue.

How else can I help you?

I'm looking for the detective.

Which detective?

He came from Tbilisi.

- When?
- Two days ago.

Nobody came from Tbilisi.

Do you know his name?

- No.
- What case is he on?

- Do you want to file a complaint?
- No, thank you.

Is there anything else...?

No, thank you.

You're not reading.

Yes, I am.

No, you're not.

I am.

What's written on that page?

You lied to me.

I did not.

So, tell me what you just read.

The whole page?

Whatever you read.

It's about an old man
taken to heaven by flying horses.

Flying horses?

What does your father say
about children who lie?

God will punish me.

So?

But that's what it says.

Don't lie.

You're such a good boy.

I never lie to you.

You shouldn't lie to me either.

Horses can't fly.

Why do you think that?

I've never seen a horse fly.

Have you?

If it was Jehovah's will...

..do you think a horse could fly?

If it was Jehovah's will, then yes.

Jehovah can do anything, can't he?

Yes.

Please read this page.

Your father will test you
when he comes back.

Can I go out first?

No, it's dangerous.

But everyone is outside.

We'll go out tomorrow.

- Please.
- No.

Let's play a game.

Move over.

Sit up straight.

Close your eyes.

Imagine what you'd do
if you went out.

I don't want to.

Close your eyes.

Dad lets me go out.

Don't be stubborn.
Close your eyes.

Imagine what you'd do outside.

I'd play football.

- Who would you play with?
- My friends.

What are your friends' names?

All right.

Who is the goalkeeper?

Me. It's always me.

Why is that?

The others don't want to.

All right.

What else do you do?

We chase dogs.

Dogs?

Yes, dogs from the neighbourhood.

Good. Open your eyes.

Mum.

Mum.

Mum, wake up.

Did I scare you?

No.

I was just kidding. I'm alive.

Yana, come in.

Watch your step.

Come on.

What happened? Poor child.

He's sleepy.

Come, let's put you to bed.

Get in carefully.

Don't wake the baby.

Gently.

That's right.

How does it feel to be a mother?

I don't know yet.

What was the rush?

Are you still going to school?

No.

She's transferring
to a technical school.

No, I'm not. I found a job.

Who'll take care of the baby?

Who would if I'm in school?

Does he eat well?

Yes.

Does his father help?

No.

He hasn't realised yet he has a child.

He hasn't even come to see him.

I'm going out for a while.

Don't you want to spend time
with your sister?

Just for an hour, while you talk.

Be back in an hour.

Some guy was waiting outside.

I know.

But who cares what I think?

Why did you let her go?

What can I do?

I keep telling her she needs to study

so she can support herself.

But she doesn't listen.

She never did.

Now, I'm left with the baby.

Drink your coffee.
It'll get cold.

Don't blow on it.

Make a wish.

Why?

So I can read your cup.

I don't want you to.

Your husband isn't watching.

Don't you want to know the future?

Won't you tell me what happened?

I don't know.

Please tell me.

Did you meet someone?

No.

You wouldn't tell me even if you did.

You and your sister are the same.

I didn't meet anyone.

Don't tell him.

There's no need.

Whatever it is...

..especially if it's not serious.

Your husband doesn't need to know.

Mum?

Why do we never talk about Dad?

What is there to talk about?

Was he that bad to you?

No.

But he was no angel either.

Why didn't you divorce him?

Life was different, back then.

Who would've married
a second-hand woman with a child?

You know...

..when you were born,
you confused day and night.

You would sleep all day
and cry at night.

One night
your father came back from work.

He was drunk and exhausted.

You wouldn't let him sleep.

So, he kicked me out with you.

It was February, it was snowing.

I carried you out...

..and sat down under that tree.

In five minutes, you were calm.

You were catching snowflakes
with your mouth.

You liked it.

You fell asleep at the break of dawn.

I was so hurt by your father...

..I wept all night.

You enjoyed being outside.

You slept peacefully all day long.

Your father called you Sleeping Beauty.

Your father was not easy to live with.

But I never thought of divorcing him.

We tried to love each other
as best we could.

Lie down.

No, I have to go.

Rest a bit.

I can't stay.

Next time can we go to Dad's grave?

Don't worry, it's me.

I'm so tired,

I could fall asleep right here
and crush you.

You're heavy.

I know.

I've settled everything.

In a month,
we'll have a new building.

Well done.

Did you rest well without me?

- What's the matter?
- Nothing.

Didn't you miss me at all?

I did.

You're an awful person.

I love you.

I love you too.

Go back to sleep.

I'll check on Giorgi.

And you?

Do you like it too?

Yes.

Say it.

"I like to blow my husband."

I like to blow my husband.

He likes it too.

See? You're opening up.

What about your asshole?

Does he ever ask for that?

Yes, he does.

Are you scared of me?

Yes.

Come.

See? You're opening up.

What about your asshole?

Does he ever ask for that?

Yes, he does.

Are you scared of me?

Yes.

Come.

What is this?

Sit down.

Is there more to this?

I wanted to tell you.

Tell me.

He came here twice.

And?

And?

He raped me.

What the fuck do you mean?

Tell me what happened.

What should I tell you?

How could you let him in?

It happened outside.

Where exactly?

What difference does it make?

I'm telling you he raped me.

What difference does it make?

Isn't this your voice on the recording?

Am I imagining things?

That's me.

And you call this rape?

Who were you when we met?

I created you, I dragged you
out of your misery.

A lousy actress.

Is this how you thank me?

What if they send this to the elders?

Have me punished.

Punish you?

Tell me everything.

I'm listening.

Sorry, is this room occupied?

I'm waiting for the chief.

You were told to wait here?

Yes.

All right, wait, then.

You're meeting the chief at this hour?

Yes.

Are you sure he's coming back?

I don't know.
I want to withdraw my case.

Which case?

A complaint.

All right, if you were told to wait here,
then wait.

Let me out here.

Giorgi...

Want to get out, Giorgi?

Should I take
your change of clothes?

Ready?

Yes.

Let's start the questions?

Nikusha, tell us what heaven is.

Heaven is...

a good place.

When you do good things,

things that God likes,

God lets you go there.

What happens there?

It's a place for good people.

Nobody can bring bad things there.

- What is hell?
- Hell is

when you kill someone,

or if you rob someone,

that is hell.

God will punish you when you die.

God will punish you.

We should protect all living things,
because when God tells us

not to misbehave...

When you die,
there will be two doors,

one leads to hell,
the other to heaven.

If you did good deeds,
you go to heaven,

if bad deeds, then to hell.

Hell is when you burn in fire.

When bad things are done.

For example...

Those people...

I think...

Being alone.

What else?

And heaven?

I think it's a coffin.

- You think so?
- A coffin.

Why?

I don't know.

Saba,

what happens to a human soul
after death?

A human soul?

What is hell?

Hell is when you burn in fire.

Also...

What is heaven?

It's a place where people

who never sinned

or sinned only once go.

Only once?

Maybe three times.

No more.

- Have you sinned?
- Yes.

For example?

Nothing serious.

Nothing big.

All right, children!

Go.

Send Anna.

Are you ready?

Nervous?

Close your eyes.

Ready?

Close your eyes.

Grab your underwear first!

Fuck off!

It's mine!

Hey! Come with us!

Hey, girls, come on!

Yana, come with me for a moment.

Yana.

Is Giorgi asleep?

Yes.

They offered me a promotion.

A position at the head office.

When the building is done,

should we move to Tbilisi?

You could work in a dubbing studio
with children.

David...

I want to forgive you.

You won't be able to.

Then what should we do?

Yana, nothing makes sense
without you.

I just want us to start over.

That's what I want, too, David.

Wash your feet properly.

Both.

Show me your face.

Turn.

Here, drink this.

- I don't want it.
- Drink it.

It's good, go ahead.

How come he went
to bed so early?

I killed him.

Yana.

You missed it!

Alex! Don't fall behind!

Hello, everybody,
this is Luca Guadagnino

and I have the great privilege
and pleasure

to introduce to this conversation

the great and wonderful Georgian
film director Déa Kulumbegashvili.

I was invited to join the festival
of San Sebastián this year,

this very difficult year
for cinema, 2020,

as the president of the jury
of the international competition,

and once the movie Beginning
started to fill the screen

of the very big main theatre
at the San Sebastián Film Festival,

the power of the imagery of Beginningand the hypnotic qualities of it

immediately had us, all the viewers
in the theatre, arrested by this.

There is no doubt that,
watching Beginning,

it's a transformative experience
for any viewers

and that, with this movie,
we have to salute and welcome

the affirmation of an incredible talent
for cinema, in Déa.

So, cut to the chase, let's start
the conversation, my dear Déa.

I'm a big fan.

And I'm proud, because, all my life,
I've been fans of directors,

so I'm happy to have a new,
great director to admire in you.

Your experience in cinema
has been very steady and very strong,

because you've been presenting
your work in Cannes,

when you were doing short films.

And, through the great support
of festivals,

you worked on the development
of Beginning.

You've been attending the Cinéfondation
in Paris of the Cannes Film Festival,

you've been supported
by the Sam Spiegel International Film Lab

and you've been presenting yourself,
through works and labs,

in many important European festivals
around the world.

Beginning, among these great producers,

has also the support

of the great Mexican film-maker,
Carlos Reygadas.

So, my first question to you is such -

what do you think is the importance,
if there is any,

for film festivals
in the development of a language

for a film-maker like yourself,

at large, for cinema?

Given that we've been experiencing

a lot of difficulties
for film festivals this year.

Well, first of all, thank you.

It's an honour
that you're presenting my film.

And it's a pleasure to talk to you.

Well, if we talk about film festivals
as the place where we present our films,

I think that it's different
from the film festivals,

or the platforms affiliated
with the film festivals

for the development of the project,

or the films
which are still in development.

I think that festivals are really vital
for the films that we make,

because I think that, first of all,

it keeps this nature
of celebrating cinema.

It's a place where we can
celebrate cinema, first of all,

and unfortunately,
not many places are left, for, like...

Less and less cinemas are actually places
where we celebrate cinema,

because less and less
cinemas exist around the world.

I know that they're closing every year.

And I think that some festivals
give us the opportunity first

to really experience films with really,
like, film lovers and cinephiles.

And it has a great importance
for me, personally.

And as for the platforms where you can
develop the script or work on a project,

of course, it's very important
for young directors like myself,

and I got huge support
from all these places

and I was able to talk to people

and, as with mentors,
so with young directors like myself,

which is very important, to exchange ideas
and to really be there

and to feel that people
all around the world are really, like...

having all these, like, ideas
they, like, cannot not make into films.

It's important to share that energy.

But what really matters,
while you go to these places,

I think is to really
still listen to yourself, always.

It's great to talk to others

and to people who have
much more experience than you have,

but it's important to always go back
and to listen to yourself.

I agree. That's a very thoughtful answer
on your end,

because, many times,
people don't understand

the position of the film-maker,
the director, the directress,

is that of someone who has
to understand how to bring out,

from himself, herself, themselves,

what they know they want
to bring on-screen.

More than for the beauty of the
collaborative process of film-making -

and we'll talk about that in a minute -

this is...it's really,
as you said beautifully,

a way to understand
what you want, in the first place.

So, Beginning is a very translucent,

crystal clear and, at the same time,
opaque portrait of a woman in crisis,

within a world in crisis.

I would like to start
getting into the movie

by talking about
this great character of Yana,

that is the centre of the movie

and that, in a way, with all her facets,

represents also the incredible
complexity of this movie.

Can you tell us about
where you started thinking of Yana,

how you developed Yana,

and how you communicated
with your incredible performer

the way in which you two
both together built Yana

as a character alive on-screen?

Well, actually,
the first image that I wrote

was the image in the end of the film
when she sits at the table

and she turns and tells her husband
that she killed their child

and then she turns away.

And I knew immediately
when I was writing -

this was the first thing
I wrote in the script -

and I knew that she does not turn back,

neither to her husband,
nor to the camera and the audience.

And this moment
is almost irritatingly long,

because we demand from her
that she owes us explanation,

she needs to turn to us,
but she doesn't do it.

And I knew that it was a central
and the most important moment of the film

and I knew that the film started
from there, for me, in a way.

But before I even started to write,

and I think now I can say
that this is probably my process so far,

with my little experience,

that when I already have
the entire film in my head,

this is when I can start to write.

So, until that,
I just make hundreds of notes.

And I know that I am getting somewhere,

but it's just so...all over the place,

because I know that there is something,
but I don't know what.

But I knew that it was this character,
it was about her,

and that it was the story
of this family and, uh...

But, Yana, I should say
that when I was talking to people

in the process of development...

I was getting notes on,
"Oh, she's not likeable,"

and, "How do you make her
more likeable or more sympathetic?

"We need to like her more,"

but I knew for sure that
that was not what I needed to do,

because I liked her.

- And I was...
- I do like her too.

And that was very important
feedback for me

and it was interesting for me to hear,

because I started to think
that maybe, as humans,

we really think that we need to understand
everything about another person

and every single...
justify everything that they do

in order to like them.

Like, can't we just
like each other as humans,

like, just because
that another is a human as well?

So, I actually was thinking that opacity

was a very important quality
that I really wanted to grasp.

And the more comments
I was getting into this direction,

the more I was sure
that I wanted the character

to have its own autonomous being,

which means that no matter how well
do we know people who we live with

or people in our own families,
we don't know everything about them.

And I really wanted to grasp
this not knowing

like, something
which we don't know about her,

because that would give her
some kind of power also,

in relationship with an audience.

Which, I think it's very interesting,
because the tale of womanhood,

unfortunately, becomes more and more
somehow simplified

to the level of empowerment,

a banal form of empowerment,
or victimisation.

And, yet, in your movie,

this incredible character of Yana,

who is portraited,
portraited by a woman, yourself,

and is somehow neither one nor the other.

She's not a victim
and she's not simply someone

who is going to fight
against a sense of disempowerment

to get some power for herself.

What is Yana kind of dealing with?
She's an actress, she is an outlier,

she lives on the margin of a community

and she lives within this community
at the margin of the same community,

so it's a double set of being an outsider.

She's a mother but, at the same time,

she feels to have the impetus
not to be a mother.

And in that, we can see that very clearly
in her relationship with her own mother.

She's caught in a world of violence,
of male violence,

whether it's a psychological
and subtly performed violence,

or a very out there, out there violence,

but at the same time,
she is not passive to that,

or she does not kind of surrender to that

in a way that is functional
to the narrative,

actually the opposite.
Can we talk about all this?

Well, that's why I, when I'm writing,
or I think when you're making a film,

I am very scared and I don't want
to bring down things to ideas or symbols,

because then, when something
stands for something else in the film,

it's not interesting for me any more,

because I need to grasp
the truth of the moment.

I need to get somewhere which I can feel
that there is something which is truthful

now happening in front of the camera.

So, even when I finish writing the script,
and then, when I work with the actors,

I do a lot of rehearsals,

and I do a lot of workshopping
the script with them.

And I am always rewriting the script,

when I work with the actors,

because some of the things that I write
may be too theoretical.

I start to remove so many things,

the moment I start to work
with the actors

and we work maybe for six months,

like, it was a rehearsal workshop,
kind of...like, room,

where we would just gather
and work and talk.

And I really wanted
to get to know the main actress,

because I think that she brought
a lot to the character,

in terms of interpreting

or not interpreting
the character at the same time.

What she's holding back
was sometimes more interesting for me

than what she's actually presenting
to the camera.

So, I really needed to get to know her,
like, how is she as a person,

because I do believe
the camera reads who we are as humans,

despite us also being...
She's a great actress,

but the camera gets beyond that also.

So, you agree with Bertolucci when he said
that a movie is also a documentary

on the actors portraying the characters?

Yes, I do believe in that.
I do believe that.

I do believe
that there is something behind,

which, it's not up to me,
it's not up to actors,

it's just something intangible
that happens and the camera grasps it.

And I always want to allow myself
to be able to grasp those moments.

And I want to be very prepared
so that I can step back

and allow maybe what I call cinema

to start to happen in front of the camera.

So, when I was... I did not talk
about any of these ideas with the actors.

I did not want them
to think about ideas at all.

But, in my head,
I was constantly thinking that,

"Okay, what does it mean to be a mother?"

and I think that,
because I have two sisters,

mother and grandmother
and I grew up in a family with many women,

they're a huge inspiration
of my work, for my work.

And my sister was helping us on set

and she was pregnant
with her second child at the same time.

And I used to just go
and talk to her also a lot.

And the child in the film
is my nephew, also.

Giorgi, in the film.
So, I used to talk to her a lot

and I think that questioning everything
is very important.

Like, what does it mean to be a mother?

Even if you don't live
in the marginalised community,

even if you're not oppressed?

I think motherhood
is the most complex notion

and most complex role for a woman to play.

And I don't think that it's all beautiful
and just tenderness and love.

I think it's a complex thing, as it is

and I really wanted to go beyond

just talking about a woman
in the oppressed community,

but I wanted to make
a film about a woman.

And the rest is just circumstances.

When we were talking about
how the camera films the intangible,

I was thinking of the great moment
in the movie,

it's a very bravura sequence
of seven minutes or more,

in which Yana is lying
on leaves in woods

and we are allowed to linger on her face,

and her behaviour and her alertness

to the sounds
in the world that is around her

to the degree that we start

to be completely hypnotised
by this image.

And at the same time, the sun, the light,

comes and goes in a way
that somehow is bringing out

all these shadows
and luminosity of Yana herself.

How do you conceive a scene like that?

And can we also investigate,
starting from this sequence,

your collaboration
with Arseni Khachaturan,

the great director of photography,

that, I guess,
made his debut with this movie.

Or maybe, in any case, this is one
of the very first films he made,

and that somehow, is another
great addition to film-making today.

Well, with Arseni,
we worked together for a long time

and I just want to say that I am so happy
to have these people, like, in my life,

like Arseni and my producers.

We have been making short films together
and we really know each other.

And I think it's a great luxury to have
when you're making a film.

And this sequence in particular
was, like, we were in the forest

and I had a storyboard
and I had a shot list,

which I actually usually have -

we work on it a lot, with Arseni -

and we, I was, like,
I knew what I wanted to shoot.

And... But I was, like...

Like, dramaturgically,
everything was working.

But I was not feeling
that I was getting what I was looking for.

And it was not that easy
for me also to explain,

but then I was just
walking around in this place

and then we knew, like, I was, like,
"Okay, I think we need to try this,"

because I was looking at the light
and how it was moving through the leaves,

and we just asked the actress
to lay down in that particular place

and then we asked our friend
who was the gaffer, literally,

to catch the light also,

but we needed
to actually wait for the light.

And I think that, in the moment,
maybe it looked a bit absurd,

because Arseni, who usually
we don't need to talk much,

usually just understands
what I want to do

and we were pretty much really
understanding each other without talking,

at some point,
he was looking through the camera,

and he looked at me, he was, like,
"What are we doing now?"

Because it was already
six minutes went by.

And I was like, "Okay."

And I just knew that,
exactly, like, what is cinema?

It's an actor, or it's a human,
in front of the camera.

It's the image,
it's a sound, it's light.

And it's how the light changes.

And I was just so in the moment,

I was so hypnotised by looking at her face
with the light changing

that I knew immediately that I,
as a director,

really did not need
to do anything any more.

Like, it was happening
and I didn't know...

In that moment, I could not say
what I was grasping, actually.

But I was really convinced

and I trusted the moment.

Which means
that you were following your intuition.

Well, yes. And that's exactly...

Like, I think that no matter
how great the script is,

and how well I am prepared -

and I really like to be well prepared -

but then on-set,
if I don't connect in the moment,

what's happening
in front of the camera,

I don't believe
that I can save anything in editing.

I'm not...
I know that many directors can. I can't.

I need to feel that it's really happening
in that moment

and I'm connecting emotionally,
with what's happening,

what's happening
in front of the camera.

And actually Arseni agrees with me
and my collaboration is to add...

Arseni is really a great talent.

And what I really like,
working with him

is that, first of all, he's very...

I think that he has something,

like, he has connection
with people always.

Like, he doesn't speak Georgian,
but when he's in Georgia,

and I always take him to mountains
and to places which are not very easy

for foreigners to go
and feel very comfortable in,

but, I mean, no, he doesn't need to talk

and it brings people around him
some comfort.

Like, they feel comfortable.
Because I know that he sees things.

And I think that many people
don't see things any more.

We look at things but we don't really see.

And Arseni has...
We don't need to talk.

Sometimes we just go and walk around
some place and I know that,

even if I don't say it in the moment,
like, "Okay, look at this light,"

I know that he saw it.

Maybe, in three days, we'll talk about it.

I'll say that, "Oh, did you notice?
And he'll, like, "Yeah."

And we both make notes,
usually, about light, or...

The movie is shot
in this beautiful Academy frame

and it's mostly...

You use the camera as a still...gaze,

but a few times - maybe two or three,
I don't remember now, precisely -

you move the camera.

Can we talk about that?

Yes. Actually, that was one thing
we disagreed, with Arseni.

Because, like, I was, like...

For me, as a director,
I'm very interested in the medium itself,

like, what is cinema as a medium?

And how does all the images
and all the audio-visual material

we're surrounded with
in our everyday life,

how does it affect the way we're looking?

How does it affect
the way we listen to things?

And I was thinking that, as a director,

what if you distil everything
to the essential?

What if you distil everything
to the minimum?

And I knew that I just wanted
to look at things in front of me,

and I wanted to create mise-en-scène
that would be mostly about looking.

And then even
I was removing a lot of sound.

We created a lot of sound,
and then I was removing it from the film.

And once the film is so still
then every minimal movement you make,

it has a much bigger impact
on the viewer,

than if you were to move
the camera all the time.

In this film, that's for sure.

And I really wanted to know also,

how much would I, as a director,
feel the audience in that moment,

like, if I knew that,
"This is the moment I would move,"

and that's how it was shot,
we only moved the camera in this way...

- It's actually four.
- Four times, okay.

In the four moments in the film.

We didn't shoot any other moment.

But I'm sure there will be a time

in which you will do a movie,all the movement of the camera.

Yes. Actually,
I'm already thinking about it.

Now, because we're talking
about the language of cinema,

I must ask you,
before going back to the character

and the theme of the film,

what are, if there are any, people
whose work you have been following,

or ideal mentors in cinema for you,

people that...film-makers
that you've been inspired by,

that you refer to in your mind
when you are creating an image?

Who are your fathers
and mothers in cinema?

Well, you see, until I was 17,
I had not watched films,

because I was growing up, we had...
There was a civil war in Georgia,

so we did not have electricity
and I was mostly reading,

but I was reading a lot.

And I grew up in this town
where the film is shot,

so I was growing up
in a very beautiful and picturesque place.

And, uh...

I think I had a very happy
and interesting childhood,

despite all the hardships
of the reality we lived in,

because I had the opportunity
to spend time with people

and to really play in the streets
and to go to the forest every day

and to even get...
I was getting lost in the forest,

for example,
and then coming back.

So, it was all filled
with emotional experiences,

which just, somehow,
they're really, like,

imprinted in my memories now.

And I think
that's my biggest influence maybe,

but then, cinema, I started
to watch cinema when I was 17

and it was like an explosion.

I, all of a sudden, started to understand
that there was something...

And I did not know
if I could ever become a director,

I did not even think about it.

But I started to watch everything.

And I am... I do believe that I'm equally
influenced by everything I watch,

but today I was thinking,
for example,

about Ermanno Olmi,The Tree of Wooden Clogs.

I don't know why, all day long,
I keep thinking about this film

and I know that I need
to immediately re-watch it,

because some of the images
just come into my head and it just...

I think that's an influence.

When a film comes back to you
after some time,

and it takes you back to watch it

or you're doing something
mundane in your life

and then a film comes to you somehow,

I think that is an influence,

because I did study in the film school,

but I cannot say that
to study a shot-by-shot breakdown,

yes, it's incredible, of course,

and practically
it makes a huge difference,

and I'm very grateful
to have certain skills as a director,

but after all,

it's just an emotional connection
with cinema.

Yana is antagonised...

I mean, I don't want to use this word,

but I would say that
there is the unity of Yana

and then there is
the sort of trinity of three men.

David, then the detective and the son.

Two men exert violence on Yana
and one is somehow... Not somehow,

one is actually the victim
of her violence.

Do we want to make a little diagram?

Can we investigate this?

Well, yes, because
I was also questioning that she...

The child is her victim directly,

but maybe she's the one
who takes responsibility for the crime,

but others just don't.

And I think that perhaps the punishment
for the father, the husband character,

is that he will never be able
to have actual punishment.

And I don't think that redemption,
then, is possible for him.

So, I was thinking about that,

maybe, what she does
at least makes her guilty.

But, him, he's somewhere
without actual relief.

He's the character who possesses
the most power in the story of the film,

we think so, but, in reality,

he doesn't have power even over
being guilty or accepting his own guilt.

And also, this film, for me,
is about love, at the same time.

Because I don't know
how much love is just...

I mean, what is it?

I was thinking that maybe this family,
they all love each other.

But is it possible, truly,

like, to truly love someone
without imposing something?

Or is it possible to love someone
for who they really are?

Because when he tells his wife
that, "I want to forgive you,"

for me, that's a very interesting phrase.
Because, what does it mean to forgive?

Like, what's your position
in that situation?

When you take that power
or responsibility to forgive someone.

Like, what does he want to forgive her?

Like, he wants to forgive her
what she's taken away.

So, for me, the diagram
is that I don't know in this film, for me,

it's not like one character is just...

guilty or evil,
and another one is right, or...

This film is not about
wrong and right, for me.

I think all of them are equally wrong
and right, because they're humans.

It was interesting for me
to watch the movie in the theatre

and feeling the almost unbearable tension

of the scenes between Yana
and the detective.

All of them.

Because those scenes were ambiguous.

Yes.

You were not putting...

You didn't put us in the position
either of him or her.

We were not, in a way,

in scenes
in which we were victimised

or we were sadistic.

And the relationship
with the detective and Yana,

as we know from the movie,

has outcomes that are super complex.

Mm-hm.

Because probably not knowing
completely Yana,

we do not expect or predict to know

how Yana would react
to the relationship with the detective.

How did you process that?

Because that is a very complicated thing
to conceive and to achieve.

And, for me, it is a luminous example
of your mastery.

Thank you.

Well, I think that they...

The scene when he visits her house,

and she sits and they talk,
I think, when he's off camera,

this is when he has
the most power over her,

because it's not him
just as one character any more.

He becomes something
maybe bigger than one character.

And then she's also
facing the audience in a certain way.

And it's also, like,
he becomes so intangible,

we cannot...

Because, if we look at him
and we know exactly what he feels,

and if he takes pleasure
out of what he's doing,

then we can maybe detach
from this character,

detach ourselves from him a bit.

But when we don't see him,
I think it's more difficult for us

because then we're forced
to also take our own position

and to be responsible for what we feel.

And I think that those kinds of moments
make the audience more active

because we are not given answers

and we need to participate
in a different way.

We need to make decisions on our own.

I knew for sure that I didn't want
to cut back and forth,

because, dramaturgically, of course,
it's interesting and there is...

It's seducing, to go to him,

because it's interesting
to also film, um...antagonists,

especially when they're charismatic
and evil or, like, there is...

You want to film them too,
but I was, like,

no, it's a totally different film.
That's not what I'm interested in.

Again, I was interested
to ask the audience...

to place themselves in a scene.

Like, where is your place as an audience?

And it's charged because it's also imbued,
like, is it sexually charged,

or what does she feel in that moment?
Is she scared?

And when there's one emotion
and one feeling becomes another.

There is a lot happening

and I didn't want to just separate
and make it about one thing.

Another scene
is the rape scene, of course,

and, again, I wanted to step back
and I did not want to crack the scene

and I didn't want to emphasise anything.

I only wanted to film the scene
for what it is, what's really happening,

and to almost film it in real time,
in front of camera.

And we did only two takes,
and it's the first take.

And we knew that it would be
on the first take,

but we did a second one,

because of Arseni,
because he always wants to have safety.

But I was convinced that we did not need
a second take any more.

And I didn't want to give the audience
any answer there as well,

because once I knew
that I would position...

I would put the camera and I would know
where the audience members are,

where do they look from,

then it's up to the audience
to also decide what each of us feel.

Because it's a sexual assault,

which happens in front of the camera
and in front of us.

I cannot tell anyone
what to feel in that moment.

It's up to every single individual in...

in the theatre.

The movie, it takes place
in a community of Jehovah's Witnesses

and the religious aspect of the movie

not only is, let's say,
literal in the storyline,

but it's also very beautifully infused
in the image,

the image, as you said many times
during our conversations,

it's about the invisible.

And definitely
that's one of the powers of cinema

and this is very well played
in Beginning.

You, you... I know the answer.

I know this is not an allegory,
I know this is not a metaphor

and I know you love
the idea of accumulation,

the accumulation being the layers,
being what makes cinema.

But the movie ends
with an image that is very biblical.

When I'm asked to explain my movies,
in particular, my endings,

I am very contemptuous
of who asks me these questions.

But I cannot resist
to ask this question, Déa.

Am I right?
There is a very powerful religious...

Allegory?

Allegory or imagery or...

It's not allegory, maybe,
but I know why you're asking the question,

because I think
that it is definitely thinking...

which has religious thought or
examination of religious ideas behind it.

Because I was thinking again, like...

is it a punishment?

Is it a redemption for this character?

Can he have either one?

Because for him to disintegrate,
is it possibility of death,

or is it impossibility
for him to even die?

Because I was still thinking that,
is it one or another?

And I honestly don't know.

Because,
even when I was working on this,

I do know that I was thinking about this,
I was thinking that he disintegrate,

he does not die with just the death
of a human, when you just die.

He's still breathing, by the way,
when he's turns into sand.

He's half sand and he's still breathing,
and I was working on that,

I really wanted the audience
to feel that he's breathing.

Because I still question that...

does he die
or it's impossible for him to die?

Because I'm very curious in this idea.

I think that the idea of life and death

and especially death
is the only certainty,

of all the questions we have,

the only certain thing
we know that will happen for sure.

Then to question, like,
what it's meaning for a human being.

Maybe I'm a bit obsessed
more than anything else.

But there is religious thinking behind it,
certainly.

Déa, thank you so much.
This has been a wonderful conversation.

I want to remind our listeners

that the jury
of the San Sebastián Film Festival

eventually awarded
four awards out of seven to Déa.

The Best Picture, Best Director,
Best Actress and Best Screenplay.

That is the level of enthusiasm

that the jury had for your movie,
Déa, and more.

And I am sure that this enthusiasm

will be more and more affecting
the viewers that have seen the movie

and that will see this masterpiece.

Thank you so very much.

Luca, thank you very much. Thank you.