49 Up (2005) - full transcript

- I'm going to work in Woolworths.

- When I grow up, I
want to be an astronaut.

- When I get married, I'd
like to have two children.

- My heart's desire is to see my daddy.

- I don't want to answer that.

- This is no
ordinary outing to the zoo.

It's a very special occasion.

We've brought these children together

for the very first time.

They're like any other
children except that they come

from startlingly different backgrounds.



- Stop it at once!

- We've brought
these children together

because we wanted a glimpse
of England in the year 2000.

The shop steward and the
executive of the year 2000

are now seven years old.

- In 1964, "World
in Action" made "Seven Up!"

and we've been back to film these children

every seven years.

They are now 49.

- Is it important to fight, yes.

- Tony was brought
up in the East End of London.

- Wanna be a jockey when I grow up.

Yeah, I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.

- At 14, he
was already an apprentice



at Tommy Gosling's racing stable at Epsom.

At 15, he'd left school.

- This is a photo
finish, when I rode at Newbury.

I'm the one with the white cap.

I was beaten a length and a half off third

and I had a photo finish.

- Do you regret not making it?

- Well I'd have given my right arm

at the time to become a jockey but now,

well, I wasn't good enough.

- What will you do

if you don't make it as a jockey?

- I don't know.

If I know I couldn't be one,
I'd get out of the game.

Wouldn't bother.

- What do you
think you would do then?

- Learn on taxis.

- At 21, he was on the knowledge

and by 28, he owned his own cab.

- It's surprising who
you pick up, you see.

I once met Kojak, I picked him up.

And Warren Mitchell,
Alf Garnett, you know.

- Have you got a girlfriend?

- No.

- Would you
like to have a girlfriend?

- No.

You understand four Fs?

Find 'em, feed 'em and forget 'em.

The other F, I'll let you
use your own discriminish.

I mean, this one, I
tried to do the three Fs

but I couldn't forget her.

- I went to a discotheque.

He was in the pub earlier on,

and afterwards, we went to a discotheque

and Tony was standing there.

And I just, from there, I just,

that was it.

Couldn't get rid of him.

- We have our ups and downs,
no more than anyone else.

- I think you gotta work at a marriage.

I think all marriages go through stages.

You can't stand each other.

You go through, you know,

I think, oh, god, I hate him.

I wish he'd get out.

I do.

- We've been to the edge of the cliff

and looked over a couple of times,

and we've always seemed
to sort of go back,

and we've sort of stayed the course.

But I must say, I mean,
it's not easy being married.

- By 42, Tony and
Debbie had left the East End

and moved to Woodford in Essex.

- We were gonna put a conservatory here

but if you look along here,

we put a patio in and
the pond for the fish,

but the only thing I ever done

was I planted them three trees.

Well, since you was last here, Michael,

we had small trees, if you remember.

Now, they've sort of grown a bit.

- So why are the trees singed?

- We was burning some rubbish at the back

and set light to the tree,
and there we all were,

sort of like throwing all
buckets of water over it,

and sadly enough, it singed the tree.

- At 49, they've
taken out a second mortgage

on the London house and sunk the money

in a holiday home in Spain.

- I'm very pleased with the house.

I said the progress we made
in the little space of time

that we've had to work here

and get it all sort of shipshape,
I think is done, really,

to the testament of my wife Debbie.

- As per usual.

- Well, Debbie went to the furniture shop,

and she sort of picked all the furniture.

All what you see is all
Debbie's choice of furniture

and her, really, sort of style.

The floor, we were led to believe

that we had a choice of tiling,

whether it's a light beige or light brown.

- That's the first I've
heard that we had a choice

'cause I would have had plain.

- Well, I've just gone
into the neighbours' house

and they've got all plain.

- Well, there you go.

I never got told that.
- And I asked him

and he said, "It was a choice that we had

"when we suggested to buy it."

So that was where the mistake was made.

- Because you don't listen.

- Say that again.

- You don't listen.

- Can't hear you.

- Tony and Debbie
still work as London cabbies.

- We sold our cabs
because we are gonna spend

more time out here.

So it's not really conducive
to own a cab, is it?

- No.

- Because the cab will
be left out on the drive

or, you know, it's pointless,

so we just hired a cab independently now.

- I'm working harder now
than I really ever have done

but I feel that it's for something.

- Tell me, son,

why do you wanna be a
cab driver for, mate?

All the holidays in Spain every year

but, son, it's hard work out there.

- You're not reaching me yet.

- Not getting to you.

- No, you're not getting to me, all right?

Now be bigger.

Dominate me, all right?

- Son...

- At 28, Tony
was taking acting lessons.

Now, he supplements his income
with occasional TV jobs.

- Oi!

- That's all I got on me.

- Mate, if I had a pound for
every time I've heard that,

I'd be a rich man.

Get him!

A guy contacted me from my agency,

from my acting agency, and
I got in touch with him.

And he writes plays

and he's been inspired
by your up programmes,

which go all round the
world, and he saw it.

And we got together and we
wrote a biographical play

all about my life story.

We took one of these
episodes over to New York

and done it on a play reading.

And I got up, playing the lead role

and it just blew the roof off.

And we're looking for
someone to pick it up

and put it on stage.

- Would everybody
please sit round now,

get on with their work?

I don't wanna see any backs to me.

Shouldn't be anybody turning round.

Tony, do you hear as well?

Get on with your work at the front.

Tony!

Don't turn round again.

- There's only one ambition,
and, really, I want a baby son.

If I see my baby son, that
will be my ambition fulfilled.

No one knows that.

Only you know.

- Debbie and
Tony have three children.

Nicky.

- Throw it in!

- Jody and Perri.

- Nicky's doing quite well.

He's still a French polisher.

It's an old-time profession, as you know.

And he's working for a firm,

and he's very happy in his work, isn't he?

- He's been brought
up very respectful to people,

very well-mannered person,

He's a hard worker.

- Jody, I mean, at this present time,

she's just relies on us a great deal

and she's been very scarred

with a relationship that she was in.

Her relationship with her
first love of her own life

was very turbulent, but
he's the father of her kid.

We're gonna make sure she gets through it.

And it's been quite a
strain on Debbie and I

to see her in that sort of situation.

- I'm very
proud of Perri as well.

She got in the post office,
and that's what's she doing.

Postman Pel, that's our postman Pel.

She loves it.

She works hard.

She's up at four in the morning.

- In the morning.

She's got a lovely boyfriend.

He loves her more than you can imagine,

and he's certainly got my blessing.

Big lad, very nice guy,
loves his football.

You know, typical East End kid.

Here you go.

Aah!

Head up, son.

That's too quick.

We are the backbone for
the kids, aren't we?

- Yeah, but I think your
parents are anyway, you know.

Your parents are...

You never visualise anything

ever happening to your parents, do you?

You think they are forever.

- Toni's five, Harry's four, nearly five,

and little Pru,

she's nearly two.
- Nearly two.

- No, three.

- She's three?

I'm an hands-on granddad.

I love my grandchildren
more than you can imagine,

I'd say not my own kids,
but in a different way.

It's an obsession of love, you know.

- You see these grandchildren,
and they're part of you.

- No, granddad.

Don't empty that.

- They're hard work at times.

- We don't mind, though, Michael, I mean...

- 'Cause you slow down
and you don't realise

you're slowing down.

- All I understand is dogs' prices,

girls, knowledge, roads, streets, squares

and mum and dad and love.

That's all I understand,
that's all I wanna understand.

- By the time he was 34,

both Tony's parents had died.

- I'm at the graveside,

I'm talking to her, little things.

I've got all images
running through me mind,

sayin' like, "Tony, go
downstairs, get me fine weights,

"one and a penny."

And I used to go in the shop.

She used to throw the
cotton in an hair curler

over the landing,

and I used to tie the cigarettes
on this bit of cotton.

She used to pull 'em up, and she goes,

see her in the end,

"Thanks, Tone.

"See you after school, be good."

And that's the way it was.

- We knew my dad was terminally ill,

although having said that,

still didn't make it any easier for us.

When my dad died, I took it really hard.

I can't.

- Nellie Rose is my mum,
'cause her name is Nell,

and her mother's name's Rose,

so my Jody and all the family

were conjuring up some
names that we could name it.

Jody at the finish said, "Nellie Rose",

the name of our mums.

- Sometimes, on a Saturday
morning, I go to the pictures,

sometimes with my friends
and sometimes with him.

- You don't.

- I do.

- She don't.

- And why did
you fall in love with him?

- Don't know.

- I don't know how...

- Don't know.
- You put up with me

for so long.

- I don't know how.

Sometimes, I don't know how I stand him.

Who's to say in another 10 years,

me and him might have split up.

- Quite possible.

- You don't know.

- When we filmed
Debbie and Tony at 42,

the marriage seemed to be in trouble.

- I'm not proud at all to say this

but situations arise that

I have had regretful behaviour
various times but through...

- You got caught, and that was it.

- That's, you know.

I'm not lying about the fact.

I mean, you could always cover it up

and suggest other things but
it's true and let it be true.

- You caught him?

- Yeah.

- What happened?

- Well, it was touch and go

whether we carried on from it or not.

I did feel I wish things
that were said then

was never said.

I mean, Perri wouldn't go
to school for three weeks.

She wouldn't go out the door.

She was quite upset about it all

and I think it was a big shock

because you are their mum and dad.

- They're tangerines, ain't they?

We got on from there.

It's sort of seven years down the line,

and we are happy as can be now.

- Karen told me to get me knickers here.

She said they're better
than Marks & Spencer's.

- Well, let's hope
they're easy to get off.

- Hello!

- There's 96% English here

who bought all their houses in Spain,

and this is where they
shop every Saturday.

It's just like an old
Petticoat Lane Market,

sort of years ago.

How much are they, darling?

What I like is so relaxing
down here, Michael.

You just walk along, and
things are happening,

the music's playing.

There's an English pub
there you can just go in,

and it's really home from
home but with the weather.

From here, it's about 200 yards along.

There's gonna be all
commercial units here.

My intentions would be to
turn one of these units

into a sports bar.

We're putting all tellies
round in a sports sort of way,

football shirts and all that memorabilia.

This is tomorrow for me.

This is my future here.

If I happen to get some sort of business

and I was to bring my Nicky

or bring my Jody and my Perri out here,

then I'll have the best of both worlds.

I'll have my family here,

plus, the kids could be schooled.

Well, they can get what
they want, can't they?

If you have got to work for it,

and it's them who can just
ask for money and get it,

and they can buy what they want.

I feel that the economy
will bust within five years

because people like myself

have been giving and giving all the time.

We're hardworking, family type of people

who have contributed everything

under this Tony Blair's government.

We have to work, we have
to maintain the mortgage,

we have to bring up the families,

and I feel that I've had enough.

I've had enough of
working all these hours.

Congestion charges, 40 pound a week now.

Zero tolerance with the
police with parking tickets.

We're paying.

Now someone's gettin' it at our expense.

- Does it make you sad

that you're gonna have to
leave your roots, your country?

- I can't even go out in the
East End now to have a drink.

The pubs are literally closing down.

It's other cultures are buyin'
all my old tradition up.

Everyone likes their own culture,

and I'm no different from anybody else,

but being in England, if you suggest this,

you are targeted as an oddball.

Oh, you mustn't say that.

Safety by numbers, eh, is
that what they call it?

- Definitely.

- On the contrary, I would say, I'm sorry.

If you don't like it,
it's not to be offensive,

it's just to let you know

that my way of being brought
up was all my own people,

and I like being with me own people,

and I'm a traditionalist.

How much do you want play for, fiver?

- 10 pesetas.

Whoa!

- What's the dream now?

- It is to be happy, which I am.

I am happy now, being
healthy with all my family.

We all want happy and
health for our family.

Anything else will be a bonus.

And that's all I really want.

And that's all I'm really after.

I don't want no more or less than that.

Oh.

Unlucky Tony.

- Unlucky.
- Unlucky.

- Some people from Africa
come here but they,

when they go, they put their clothes on.

- Jackie, Lynn and Sue

all grew up in the East End of London

and were friends in
the same junior school.

- With this school, we do
metalwork and woodwork,

and the boys do cookery.

- We had a teacher at school
that his favourite ploy was,

"All you girls want to do is walk out,

"get married, have babies

"and push a pram down the street

"with a fag hanging outside your mouth."

- I think that we all could have gone

any way that we wanted to at the time

within our capabilities.

I mean, we just we chose our own jobs.

But we only had a limited choice anyway.

I mean, truth be told, I mean we...

- Yes, we did have

a limited choice.
- We didn't have a choice

of private education

because they couldn't
have afforded it anyway.

- Change is too much, Mike.

Our lives are changing
far too much, all of us.

- Well, to be honest,

when you look at the seven-year-old us,

it's difficult to believe it is us.

I mean, it's like it's someone
else you're looking at,

this little cute thing.

I mean, I can't remember being...

- Well, I wasn't cute.

I would like to get
married when I grow up.

Well, I don't know what sort of boy

but I think one that.

- Oh, no.

- So, that's not got a lot of money

but he has got some money, not a lot.

- Have you got any boyfriends?

- That's personal, innit?

- By the time she
was 21, Jackie had married Mick

and moved to the outskirts of London.

- It was horrific, really,

what happened to the wedding cake.

I mean, it was sitting right
in between Mick and myself

when suddenly, the columns
just completely gave way

and it just all sort of fell into one.

I would say on average,
19 is probably too young.

- By 35, she was divorced.

- We decided ourselves, I mean
just between the two of us,

we knew it wasn't going any further.

We both knew, I think,
that at the end of the day,

we would be happier leading our own lives.

Hey, Jackie.

- She and Mick
had decided early on

that they didn't want children.

- Sometimes feel like really sick.

- Basically, I would say
because I'm far too selfish.

I enjoy doing what I want
when I want and how I want,

and certainly at the moment,

I can't see any way around that.

Oh.

And this one on.

Here we go.

Oh, yeah.

Had a brief but very sweet relationship,

the result of which was Charlie.

Oi, give us a cuddle.

I don't really want Charlie to be an only.

I'd love him to have brothers and sisters,

but not necessarily loads of 'em.

Just, you know, one would do, actually.

Right, Charlie, there's yours.

And please eat it all up.

- Oh.

- And James.

- Thanks, mum.

- Good boy.

And last but not least.

Gonna eat that one for me?

- After her relationship

with Charlie's father ended, she met Ian,

and they moved to Scotland
and had two more sons.

- James.

- All right.

- By 42, they had split up.

- Lee.

- Go on, Lee, go and get 'em.

- At 49, despite the split,

the family all live in
the same area of Scotland.

- There's your dad!

Lee and Charlie's birthdays
are only a month apart,

so we tend to do something in between

so that we celebrate both their birthdays.

So we usually go somewhere
like amusement park.

- That Lee's got
a lot of nerve, hasn't he?

- And a little
bit of bravado, I think.

Because his older brothers had said no,

I think he decided, I'm gonna do this one.

- Yeah!

Whoo!

- Has Charlie shown
any interest as to his father?

- No.

Ian's his father as far as he's concerned.

He knows and the other boy knows,

the whole family know that
biologically, he's not,

but in every respect, Ian is his father,

always has been.

He just done everything with
him, been everything to him,

taught him everything.

- What would you do

if you had lots of
money, about two pounds?

- I would buy meself a new nice house,

you know, one that's all nice and comfy.

- Oh, quite like that.

- Jackie suffers
from rheumatoid arthritis

and lives off disability benefit.

How is money for you?

- Could do with more, as just
about everybody would say,

but we manage.

We cut our cloth accordingly.

You've got X amount,
and that's what you do.

I can imagine you in that.

- Has Liz got
anything to do with that?

- Liz has always got
something to do with that.

Ian's her son, but she
also says that I'm here

and she's got three grandchildren here

that she loves dearly, and
she will be there for us.

James has just had a trip to
Alton Towers with the school.

Then suddenly, she'll say,

"You pay the trip, I'll give
him his spending money",

Which is brilliant because it
just makes life easier for me.

- Now, you've moved
in the last seven years.

Tell me about that.

- Because of the arthritis that I've got,

I needed to come to the ground floor.

And this particular area that I'm in now

is an area that I like.

It's close to Liz, my mother-in-law,

so from that point of view, it suits.

The school's across the road
for the boys, good neighbours,

which makes a difference
wherever your property is.

It's how the East End used
to be about 30 years ago.

Doors used to be open,

the neighbours all watched for each other.

If one neighbour had a problem,

the other neighbours helped out.

That's how it is here.

That's what this place is
like, it's like a village.

- 80, 85, 90...

- We deal with the problems with the boys

as and when they arise.

I mean, you've always
got the problem of drink

and drugs and smoking and not smoking

and that sort of thing.

I mean, Charlie's of an age
now where I can't mother him

but I can't be his friend, either.

He wants to work, he
wants to leave school,

and he wants to get an
apprenticeship to car mechanics

but the chances of him doing
that are probably very slim.

- Hey, some...
- Lee, take your time, babe.

You'll make yourself ill.

- Don't care.

- James tends to be a
bit of a computer freak.

He wants to produce
and make his own games.

- That looks just
like your brain, mush.

- Lee tends to be, like, the outspoken one

and a bit like I was at his age, really.

In fact, he's very much
like I was at his age.

- Is that a worry?

- I think that's terrible.

How dare you say that to me?

Is that a worry?

Why would that be a worry?

Do you think I've turned out badly?

- No, but sometimes
when you look at yourself,

you don't always see things
you like in yourself,

and then you see them in
your child and you think...

- Yeah, but I never said he'd
picked up all of my traits.

I actually think he's
picked up probably the best.

If you're not gonna play nicely,

right, go to bed, then.

- No!

- He has a temper that isn't
as bad as when he was younger,

but it is something that he knows about

and he tries very hard to control.

- Does your
temper get you into trouble?

- You're probably the best
one to answer that, does it?

I mean, you and I have had
arguments on occasions.

- Did you meet enough men

before you decided who to marry?

- I mean, what do you mean by settle down?

I mean, if you think that getting married,

as far as we're concerned,
is a case of going to work,

come home, cook tea for
hubby, going to bed,

getting up, going to work,
you're totally mistaken.

The whole thing you...

- I like it
when you shout at me.

- I'm not sure you do, really.

I mean I don't know.

What happened at 21?

You asked me if I'd had
enough experience with men

before I got married,

and I thought that was
actually an insulting question,

and I got very angry,

and we actually stopped
filming because of it.

And if you look at the tapes of me at 21,

I am sitting, and to all
intents and purposes,

I might as well have not been there.

But I was really angry that
you even thought you could get,

you wouldn't have asked

some of the other people in
this programme that question.

You will edit this
programme as you see fit.

I've got no control over that.

You definitely come across
as this is your idea

of what you want to do and how you see us,

and that's how you portray us.

This one maybe, maybe the
first one that's about us

rather than about your perception of us.

- So how up to
now have I got you wrong?

- How have you got me wrong?

The last one was very much based on

the sympathy and the illness that I've got

and what I may or may not be able to do.

It should have been about what I can do,

what I am doing, what I will do.

Don't make that mistake, Mike.

I am no way,

I am down and I am
depressed about my illness,

but I'm certainly not down
and depressed about my life.

And there are a lot of the times

that I sit and I cringe when
I watch those programmes,

not just for me, but for other people.

You can ask me about Ian,
and you know full well

I'm gonna say to you it's
none of your business,

I'm not talking about it.

Now, there are people in this
programme that don't do that,

that quite of their own free will,

will talk about their
marriages or their divorces

or the state of their lives

but I don't think you should be into that.

I don't think you should
even be asking that.

- It's part of people's lives,

and this programme is
about people's lives.

- Yeah, but that's,

see, to me, that's a part of my life

that will never go on this programme.

You know I'd married, my
ex-husband never took part in this.

My partner now will
never take part in this.

- But that's not my fault.

- No, but that's because
that's the way I want it.

But it still doesn't stop you

trying to get that information from me.

- So what would
you like to talk about

if you want me to represent you?

We've talked a bit about the children.

- What I want to do.

What I hope to do.

I just don't want that
personal conversation.

- Okay, well,
let's talk about that,

what you hope to do and
what you hope for the boys.

- What I hope to do.

I'd like to go back to school

so that I can hold a conversation
with anybody in the world

and know what I'm talking about.

So that I'm not stuck, I
know a little bit about that

but I don't really know enough.

I'd love to know...

Actually, I'd really love
to start my education

all over again.

My mum, 'cause she got five girls,

she had seven years' bad luck

that's why she's got five girls.

I'd like to be able to
have a happy family.

I mean, I know that it's not possible

to be happy all the time,

but as much of the time
that it was possible.

I don't know what Suzy's had.

What's Suzy had that I haven't had?

I mean, until I know that...

- Are you different

from what I should have expected

at seven and 14 and 21?

- Maybe not enough, but I've got it.

I think I'm actually more intelligent

than you thought I would be.

I have reached a level

in my life that I'm happy with,

and I enjoy being, I enjoy being me

but I don't think you
ever really expected me

to turn out the way I have.

If we did all love Geoffrey

and we all want to marry him.

- Yeah.

- I think I know the one that
he likes best, and that's her.

- I don't think I'd get married too early.

I'd like to have a full life first and...

- I'd like to enjoy

myself before I...
- Meet people and, yeah.

Before you can commit
yourself to a family.

Marriage means a different thing to me.

I've still got my ideals about marriage.

I don't know what it's all about.

- Sue was 24
when she married Billy.

They had two children,
William and Catherine.

- I think that to get married young,

there must be things that you miss.

You must miss that crucial
stage of being yourself

because the minute you get married,

you're no longer a single being.

You're a partnership, and that
should be the idea behind it.

- By the time she was 34,

she and Billy had divorced.

- I've never sat down and
thought, well, what was it?

Was it this, was it that?

I just knew it wasn't working.

There have been relationships
when I could have settled

but they didn't feel quite right,

so I've always come away and pulled away

and just waited until
the right one come along,

if they ever do.

♪ Don't you remember you
told me you loved me, baby ♪

♪ You said you'd be coming back ♪

- At 42, when we
filmed Sue in the karaoke bar,

she brought Glen along to watch her sing.

♪ Baby, baby, baby, oh, baby ♪

We've just met and things are going well,

but now obviously things have
gone very well.

- Is this love?

- Oh, I think so, yeah.

I mean, we've known each
other for a long, long time

before the seven years,

and we've always, always liked each other.

- He's good looking.

- He's very good looking.

He's not bad, is he?

Everyone says he looks like Paul Weller.

Whether that's true or not,

especially now he's growing his hair.

- Susan most of all likes Lesley.

- Do I?
- I mean before.

- You said.

She keeps changing her mind, though.

- Yeah, I don't know which one, really.

'Cause everything's
not that cut and dried.

It's not either a career or family or,

but it's what's in the middle.

Am I just gonna carry on as I am now for,

and end up on a shelf or am
I just gonna get married,

could be any day?

I've been married, and
I've not got that urgency.

Glen, we sort of say maybe we will.

We're engaged, we're committed.

We've bought a house together,

and to me, that's a big commitment.

Every house needs money
spending on it when you move in.

To have a wedding, you
gotta put some cash into it.

When I got married,

the primary reason was because
I wanted to have a child.

The two, to me, went together.

- Have you and Glen

thought of having your own child?

- Well, Glen got with
me when we got together,

I should say, when I was in my 40s,

and you don't have a baby

when you've just started a relationship.

I didn't want to do all that again.

I would have loved to
have had a baby with him

'cause he would make a wonderful parent

but the timing was off.

- So she's your baby?

- She's my new baby, yeah.

Yeah, my kids are my babies,
but she's my new baby.

She's our baby, mine and Glen's.

She's a wonderful terrier.

She's got such character.

- What does she do?

- Well, she watches TV with us.

She's got her own favourite programmes.

And she adores Rolf Harris,

absolutely adores "Animal Hospital".

She's at the top of the
house, and the music comes on,

she runs down the stairs and
puts herself in front of the TV

for Rolf Harris.

- So, the house looks nice.

You pleased with it?

- I am very pleased with it.

It's a lovely step for us.

We feel like we've got
more space around us,

and we've got to do everything inside,

but we can build on it,
and that's what we want.

I've been promising to
have a housewarming party

since we've moved in.

We've been here four months now,

so I thought it was
about time we did that.

So people are just starting to arrive now.

- So, you
left the East End, why?

- Well, I've always wanted to move out,

but you don't do that or
the opportunity isn't there

when you are own your own with two kids.

I wish I had done it before.

The timing, it's timing, you know.

Now was the right time, obviously.

The East End has changed,
it's changed a lot.

- He was even
playing tie the tooth.

- Mum comes down to me.

It's so easy for them.

They can jump on a train,

and the station's within walking distance

so it's worked out wonderfully well.

- Well, some people are
just born into rich families

and they're lucky.

- I don't see why they
should have the luck

when people have worked all their lives

and haven't got half as
much as what they have.

It just don't seem fair.

- So have you
moved up a class now?

- That's difficult to say.

Up a class.

I suppose it feels like that to me.

No, there ain't no need for
food, that's gonna be their.

Now, you've got the sense of pride,

you've got your own house.

I feel like I'm building for the future.

I've been a single
parent for a long while.

I've brought them up on my own, really,

because Catherine was
only two when Bill left.

It's been extremely hard and it's been,

sometimes, it's been very lonely.

- I only had to have one filling, right.

That was about the only
thing that I had done.

- William, he's a computer addict.

He works in the industry

and he also constantly
has a computer on indoors.

- This one's facing in the windows.

- He could have gone to university,

and he knows that and I know that,

and I do regret that for him.

But I've been there.

I can just remember I didn't
wanna do that, either.

And Catherine's temping

because she wants to do a
bit of travelling next year.

People say she's me reincarnated.

I mean, she looks a bit like me

and her mannerisms are exactly like me,

and she likes to enjoy herself.

- Get to aviation.

- I wanted to get...

- To walk into a relationship

with someone who's got two teenagers,

it must have been very difficult for him,

and they do clash occasionally.

I absolutely hate it because
I'm just an easy-going person

and I don't like strife.

They are doing things the
way I've brought them up,

which isn't the way that Glen
would like things to be done,

so you've got to learn to live
together in the same house.

It will always be a learning curve.

I'm a peacemaker.

- When the children

were old enough to go to school,

Sue went back to work and
had a series of office jobs.

She now helps run the MA courses

in the legal faculty of
the university of London.

- Still work for the college
but we moved to Central London.

Now I am sort of the main
administrator for the programme

instead of an assistant

and I've got a couple of
people that help me with that.

Hey, could you fax that
to Mary for me, please?

Thanks.

- So you like
the responsibility?

- Yeah, I love the responsibility.

I think I was born for the responsibility.

Yeah, I love it.

- Well, I've never been abroad but...

- No, nor have I.

- I have, I have.

- Oh, yeah, 'cause you went
on that cruise, didn't you?

- Yeah.

Once a year we go to Cornwall or Devon.

We try to find a different spot every year

and we just bring the dog.

It's just such a lovely place.

Every time you turn a corner,
there's a different sight,

there's a different,

you just never know
what you're gonna find.

Everything's just so beautiful.

We'd both had childhood
holidays here and good memories,

and we decided to come back,

and we've been coming ever since.

It's nice for us just to
be a couple for a week.

When we retire, or maybe
before, if we get lucky,

then this is the sort of
place we'd like to come to.

That little one there,

right in the middle nearest the beach,

that would be ideal, absolute perfect.

The perfect place.

- Vesto, vestas, vest.

Vestat.

Vestamus, vestatis, vestant.

- Here, speak up.

Fill out the gaps on the board there.

- When he was seven,

Bruce was at a preparatory
boarding school.

At 14, St. Paul's in London.

- They don't sort of
enforce being upper class

and things like that at St. Paul's.

They suggest that you don't have long hair

and they do get it cut if,

and they teach you to be
reasonably well-mannered

but not to sniff on the poorer people.

- At 21, he was
in his last year at Oxford,

reading maths.

- You can show that this is irreducible.

Then you do a transformation

on this polynomial X equal to T plus two.

- Good, that's a nice way of doing it,

particularly using Eisenstein down here.

His test is very powerful.

- Yes.

Chris Awanabe.

- Yes, sir!

- Moma Naly.

- Yes, sir!
- At 28,

Bruce was teaching maths in East London.

- Well, I'll go into Africa

and try and teach people
who are not civilised

to be more or less good.

- At 35, he
was teaching in Silet

in Northern Bangladesh.

- And I also got the
chance to learn a bit of Bangla

which is very difficult.

Not doing very well at.

- Bangladesh,
Bangladesh, Bangladesh.

- Bangladesh.

- Bangladesh.

- Bangladesh.

- Before you do anything,
you have to make sure...

- By 42, Bruce
was back in the East End

running the maths department
at a girls' school.

- And then after naught hours,

you can see that it would be 60 litres.

Okay, now you wanna put this information...

- At 49, he's
teaching at St. Albans,

a large boys' independent school

which has girls in the sixth form.

- I sing in the choir,
that happens twice a week.

On Mondays and Fridays we go to the abbey,

because in the early days,
the school was in the abbey,

going back to 948.

- 948?

- Yes, so the head quite likes to say

we're in our third millennium, you know.

- So the school's
over a thousand years old?

- Yes, in one form or another.

You have to make X the
subject of this equation,

you gotta get X on its own.

So what's the first thing we do?

- Multiply both sides by three.

- You don't multiply by three.

- Divide by three.
- Divide, sorry.

- Okay, so...

- Tell me then

what's exciting about
teaching here for you.

- There is a higher
academic level to teach

and then you can see pupils
at a more developed level,

that flash of recognition

and then engendering
their love of the subject

that I had at their age.

There is a class society,

and I think public schools
may help its continuance.

So you're in the lead,
you see, because here...

- Has it been
a kind of compromise

of political principles for you, this?

- Well, I would say have a million angels

in front of every teacher

who's prepared to slog away at
an inner-city comprehensive.

Make way, make way.

This is somebody who's
prepared to turn up each day

and do that job.

Where's the graph?

- 60.
- 60, right.

So when the tank is
full after naught hours.

That motto water weareth away a stone

by dripping upon it, not by smashing it

was as a motto for teaching
that you kept on teaching them,

and that eventually it would get through,

and the pupils would change and
learn and develop and so on.

But I think in the end,
the reverse happened.

That water dripping on me wore me away.

I just thought, I don't think
I can do this till I'm 60,

and therefore, I'll have
to do something else.

- Do your old friends

give you a hard time
about what you've done?

- They certainly do.

They absolutely do.

They say, "Oh, have we
joined the Tory Party,

"the golf club, the Masons?

"You're driving a much
better car than you used to,"

and so on.

Well, my girlfriend is in Africa,

And I don't think I'll have another chance

of seeing her again.

- Have you got any girlfriends?

- No, no, not yet.

I'm sure it will come but not yet.

I mean, I do think a lot of
people think too much about it.

I think I would very much like to,

oh, become involved in a family,
my own family, for a start.

That's a need that I
feel I ought to fulfil

and would like to fulfil
and would do it well.

Yes, I haven't got married or whatever,

and I was supposing that that
would have been something

which I hoped had happened.

- You're getting on a bit.

Are you getting worried?

- Well, not particularly.

I mean, I'm always optimistic.

I mean, who knows who
I might meet tomorrow?

- And in the middle of a conversation

about something completely different,

he just asked if I'd like to marry him,

and if I hadn't been listening carefully,

I would have missed it completely.

- To love and to cherish.

- To love and to cherish.

- Till death us do part.

- Till death us do part.

- Is this a beetroot or something?

- I think it's just a weed.

- Do you enjoy gardening?

- Well, under Penny's directions,

I do whatever she asks me.

I don't know what to do here,

what order to do things in.

She and her mother are quite good at this.

- So you're the labourer?

- Yes, I'm the unpaid labourer, the serf,

the feudal vassal or whatever.

Well, Penny will give you
the correct mediaeval terms.

- We don't argue very much.

- Not really.

I mean, we haven't really
had a sort of full-blown row.

- No, our arguments sort of
tend to be two sentences,

and I go off and sulk for 24 hours.

- How are you doing, dear?

- Fine, thank you.

And I think the one
positive influence on him,

I've stopped him apologising.

When I first knew him, he
kept saying, "Sorry, sorry,"

and apologised for all sorts of things

that there was no need to apologise for.

Maybe it's just 'cause
we weren't married then.

- Yeah, see, I was winning you over.

- Yeah, yeah, that's right.

- Well, you're the world's greatest cook.

- It's only pasta, wouldn't
think it'll go far...

- But if you
have emotional issues,

will you talk about them?

- Well, I have the usual male reticence

about that kind of thing.

Great tea.

If Penny really wanted
to give me a hard time,

she'd have to say, "Talk
about your feelings."

That would be worse...

- That would be

the worst thing.
- Than a 24-hour sulk.

- Yeah.

- I think so, yeah.

I don't know whether they
gonna move any of them...

- We may have children, I don't know.

I mean, if in seven years' time or so

we're living in a slightly
bigger house with a young family,

that would be nice.

I mean, I don't want to
pin all my hopes on it

and nothing happens.

We are quite old.

I can seeing bringing up, say,
teenage children in your 40s

might be a bit strange.

Come on, then, Henry.

Get on.

- Is it more
tiring than you thought?

- I don't think until you're doing it

you realise how sleep-deprived you get

and how totally exhausted you are

all the time for several years.

I think that came as rather a shock.

- Sometimes, I go to bed at
8:30, which is ridiculous.

In fact, I sometimes go to
bed before Henry and George.

- He looks like
his father, doesn't he?

- George has got the cheekbones

that run in Bruce's family.

- And what have I got?

- Uh.

Ooh, that's hard to answer, darling.

- We're at my first school,

where I was from about five to eight,

and this is where I
boarded for three years.

And I can remember being happy there.

I can remember also being miserable

because I can remember crying.

- Squad, steady!

- I always seemed to be beaten,

and I never used to understand why.

- Squad, halt!

- You were here because,

what, your parents were...

- My parents were separated
and were divorced.

And just to give me a stable
place to be and be educated,

it was a solution to all those problems.

My heart's desire is to see my daddy

who is 6,000 miles away.

I did miss contact with my father

and, well, I say it as a joke to Penny,

time to send them boarding as I was.

And she says, "Over my dead body,"

which is, but I wouldn't
want that, either.

- Five years ago,

the family moved away from the East End

to be near Bruce's new school.

- Hey, what's in.

It's very quiet, its child-friendly,

and it just feels very safe.

And that's really important
when you've got small children,

that the area feels safe.

- And what can you
give them that you didn't have?

- Contact with
a father that is loving,

and they can realise that

and show that love to other people

and realise when they're letting

both themselves and me down.

That could be a sort of
guiding light for them.

- Do you want any more children?

- Well.

- Bruce was originally
talking about a cricket team.

But he's got his opening batsman,

and that I think is gonna
be his lot, frankly.

- I want you to play tomorrow.

I'm not gonna drop you
from sarcasm, all right?

I run one of the junior
teams here, the under-13s.

And there'll be nearly 200 boys there

doing that on a Saturday

rather than other things
that could waylay them.

It's that combination
of playing within a team

and the ability to back each
other up and form friendships

that's such a nice thing.

- Nice shot.

- At weekends,
Bruce plays village cricket.

- We don't really mind who wins and loses,

we obviously prefer to win

and we go on tour every
year, so we go down to Devon.

Ever such a nice bunch of mates,

and I've known some of them for 25 years.

You can play at a reasonable
level till you're in your 60s.

- And what
about your batting skills?

- I'm mainly a bit of a slogger,

so I tend to bat down the
order, six, seven, eight.

It can be brief, but the
last time I played, I got 40.

Ooh!

- Great goin'!

- Okay, from their hiding
place in the bushes,

William and...

- Do you have
fears for the future?

- Personally, I've kind of worried

that the boys will turn out all right.

I hope they avoid drugs.

To see them sleeping or carry
them around is just fantastic,

and just the smell of them
and the look of them is just,

you just want to protect them

from everything that's harmful to them.

- When you look
back at yourself at seven,

can we see you now?

- I can't really recognise myself.

He looks a little bit
lost and a little bit sad,

and I think I'm quite sort of surprised

to be sort of contented
and reasonably happy.

- Do you have a dream?

- Well, I'd have probably
liked to have played

international cricket but
I just wasn't good enough.

You know, one's dreams go,
and the day-to-day living

of ordinary life and
family life takes over,

I think we just sort of
live without our dreams.

- I don't like the big boys hitting us

and the prefects sending
us out for nothing.

- When he was seven,

Paul was in care in a
children's home in London.

Were you happy at the
children's home in England?

- I didn't mind that, really,

'cause we didn't know what was going on

'cause we were a bit young.

Well, as far as I know,
my mother and father,

well, they separated originally, I think.

They eventually got divorced.

I went to the boarding
school for one year,

and then we emigrated to Australia.

- Paul settled with
his father and stepmother

in a suburb of Melbourne.

What mark has it left on you

the fact that you were brought
up within a bad marriage?

- The only thing I can say

that I think might have come from that

is just my lack of confidence

and being able to show my
feelings, really, I suppose.

- Would you
like to get married, Paul?

- No.

- Tell me why not.

- I don't like...

Say you had a wife.

They say you had to eat
what they cooked you,

and say I don't like greens.

Well, I don't.

Oh, no, I prefer to be alone, really.

I can't say I don't wanna get
married, 'cause I think I do,

but I wanna be happily married

and therefore, I wanna make sure, I think.

- What is it
that you fell in love with?

What is it about him?

- His helplessness, I suppose.

It was the motherly instinct in me

to pick him up and cuddle him.

And he's also very good looking, I think,

but he doesn't agree with me.

In the summer he's got this
cute little bum in shorts.

I mean, I can tell quite
a few stories here,

but the one that really
irritates me the most

is when we have an argument he
says, "That's it, leave me."

And I say, "Fine, all
right, I will one day."

We had our 20th wedding
anniversary just before Christmas.

- Which is the life sentence.

- Yeah, everyone reckons

that we should be out of jail by now.

- To a certain extent we started thinking,

well, do we really know each other now?

Because you just get in the
humdrum of going to work,

coming back home...

- Running kids here and...

- Kids here and there.

I don't think you mean to

but you probably stop thinking
about each other a lot.

I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time,

although I'm getting on
top of that more now.

Just the simple things,
to say to, sort of,

Susan, I love you, something like that.

I can tell you about it,

but I really haven't been
able to say it freely to Sue.

It's a bit hard to talk about.

I did end up having to get a bit of help,

and it wasn't directly
due to our relationship.

It started at work, unfortunately,

which brought my self-esteem down

which tended to affect everything else.

And I was just very fortunate

that I saw a local
doctor and with her help,

I started coming back to
normal thinking, probably.

I mean, I was feeling a little bit worried

about the relationship

because I felt like I hadn't progressed.

I was going backwards.

And, I mean, I still believe that.

I was thinking that why would Susan

wanna be with someone as,

sounds funny but as boring as me,

'cause there was nothing there.

I mean, what do I do?

- How do I say it?

It was a shock that he got that low

and that he doubted the relationship

because one thing I've always known

is that Paul's never
doubted his love for me.

You know, it's always been there,

and I've never doubted it, either.

- Did the physical
side of your marriage suffer?

- I think it did.

I think it did, really.

- For a little while.

We promised ourselves
when we first got married

that we'd never stop touching

or being affectionate towards each other.

And in front of the
children, we've always been,

and even now with the children,

we still embrace a lot,
both Katy and Robert.

I mean...

- Katy will sometimes
say, "Mother, stop it."

I was gonna be a policeman

but I thought how hard
it would be to join in.

I just haven't made up my mind yet.

I was gonna be a phys ed teacher

but one of the teachers told me

that you had to get up into university.

- At 21, Paul
was a junior partner

in a firm of bricklayers.

By 28, he'd gone out on
his own as a subcontractor.

- I think when I started work for myself,

things were looking good for me

'cause I was out of school,

something I was very enthusiastic about.

And I was chasing the dangling carrot

but never got there
'cause, I mean, really,

I'm a worker and not a businessman.

- By the time he was 42,

Paul was doing factory work,

making signs for a plastics company.

What's the future for you
at work, do you think?

- Well, I mean, the job's still there.

I've had talks with them

about whether they were
ushering me out the door,

and they say they're not.

Not that I'm that old,
but it's a bit of worry

about getting a full-time
job with my skill levels.

- Sue had been a hairdresser

for most of her working life, but at 49,

she has a new career

as an occupational therapist
in a retirement home.

- You might be in
your 40's and getting older,

but you still have a lot to add

and you can learn to go
in a different direction.

I call this my sea change.

- Do you have ambitions?

- Not really now.

I've been in this job 10 years

and never asked for a pay rise.

That's just what I've always been like.

- Has it
affected home life at all?

- It has affected a little bit

because I'm not there at
home as much as I used to be

for when Paul got home.

- It can be,

and I'm sure I'm not the only one,

it can be quite startling.

You get home and you
think, there's no one here.

- When I've been here
for 30 years to be home to.

- It's really different.

- Oh, good fist away by...

- By the time they were 28,

Paul and Sue had two
children, Katy and Robert.

- Picked up.

- Katy did well at school

and got a place at university
to study archaeology.

- They're photos of the
dig in Cyprus that I went on

and we were digging in bronze age tombs

that are around the village.

- You're the first person

in the family to go to university.

Was it a struggle for you?

- It was a bit because I
had to do it all by myself.

I had nobody to really help me

'cause mum and dad couldn't help me

with my essays or things like that.

- What does university mean?

I'm pretty happy with Katy

and I'm not having a go at Rob,

but I've got views for Robert,

'cause he's struggling a little bit.

- Robert has
trained as a car mechanic.

- He's got reading and
writing difficulties

and, I mean, he's coping with that.

We'd like to see him be a
little bit more proactive

at doing literacy course
now he's a bit older.

But just day-to-day troubles
of making ends meet with money,

that's always hard.

- He went nuts at me for using the phone,

"No more fucking back,

"you constantly fuckin'
do this all the time."

- What's Robert
got that you gave him?

- Moodiness.

I think Robert's even
a little bit more moody

than what I've ever been.

He's not your average relaxed 21-year-old.

- Whatcha doin'?

We only had two children,
because we thought

that we couldn't love any more children

as much as we loved our two.

And now we've got our two
grandchildren, we just love them.

- We love them as much, really.

- As much, yeah.

Yay!

- With Rob and Stacey,

we don't really know how
long they're gonna last for

and I keep my fingers
crossed they will last.

We can only hope that they
work at it like we do.

- That's better, thank you.

- In their 20s,

Paul and Sue sold up, bought an old van

and travelled across Australia.

- I think it brought us closer together,

because we really got to know each other

and relied on each other so much.

- One of the most important things

we ever did with our children
was spend time with them.

And particularly, when
you've got holidays,

to actually, which a lot of parents do,

go camping with them.

- We've been camping there now,

we've actually went to that for 19 years,

'cause Robert was two
when we first went there.

- So does this beat the old van?

- This is the Hilton
compared to that old van.

- So you've got any plans

for any big trips now
the children have gone?

- I think we'd like to do something again

but you need to have the finances

to support yourself for a few months.

- The monitors opened the
washroom, sendin' us out,

well, there's no talking,
and I wasn't talking today.

I'm more at peace around
the horses and the animals.

I can be upset, I can be on
edge, come down to the horses,

within three or four
minutes of being here,

and I've forgotten everything,

so it does calm you down.

- So last time I
came, you had the horses.

What's happened to the horses?

- Well, we gave Poykin away to some people

because it was a little bit expensive

and also the fun went
out of it, basically.

- How do you get that peace now?

- Well, I think I got it through running.

- Well, most Sunday
mornings, we go training.

When Paul is doing marathons,

when he's gotta run great distances,

I follow along with the
bike as a bit of support

and I take drinks for him so
he doesn't get dehydrated.

Something we can do
together, so we do that.

We're not doing any great
distances, we're just,

I've got an injured knee.

Just trying to build it up so
it gets used to running again.

I did the host city marathon,

was my first marathon I did up in Sydney.

And I trialled the Olympic
course, and it was open to anyone.

So I figured if you were
gonna do a marathon,

that'd be the one to do.

Nearly died, but I enjoyed it.

My idea of happiness to me

is a love for life and a love for people.

- When you
look back on the marriage

and the family, any regrets?

- No, we wish we'd had more
children, but then who knows?

If we'd had them, might
have gone, no, too many.

- We might be both in the nuthouse.

- But without a
family, what have you got?

Nothing.

Well, that's the way I feel.

- More than
work, more than achieving?

- Yeah, like, what you've got,

you've got nothing
unless you've got family

and your health anyway.

You'd be awfully lonely
without family, I think.

- Tell me, do you
have any boyfriends, Suzy?

- Yes.

- Tell me about him.

- He lives up in Scotland,
and I think he's 13.

- Have you got
any boyfriends, Susan?

What is your attitude towards
marriage for yourself?

- Well, I don't know.

I mean, I haven't given
it a lot of thought,

'cause I am very, very cynical about it.

But then you get a certain
amount of faith restored in it.

I mean, I've got friends,

and their parents are happily married,

and so it does put faith back into you

but me myself, I'm very cynical about it.

- When I last saw
you at 21, you were nervous,

you were chain-smoking, you were uptight,

and now you seem happy.

What's happened to you over
these last seven years?

- I suppose Rupert.

I'll give you some credit.

- I'm now chain-smoking.

- No, I think you can't
just walk through a marriage

and think it's once you get married,

it's all gonna be roses
and everything forever.

You know, you have...

Everybody has their rows but
we've never yet had a row

that we haven't managed to sort out.

It's very hard to actually say what it is

that goes on between a couple,

it's either there or it's not.

We've been married 27 years now.

Any marriage has its ups and downs,

but somehow, whether it's
through luck or determination,

we've worked through the difficult times.

He's just always been there for me,

and I know I can rely on him.

And he's my punch bag

in the same way as I'm
probably his, but it works.

When I get married, I'd
like to have two children.

I'm not very children-minded
at the moment.

I don't know if I ever will be.

- What do you think about them?

- Oh, I don't like babies.

- At 28, Suzy had
two sons, Thomas and Oliver.

By the time she was 34,
Suzy had a daughter, Laura.

- Mummy?

- Yeah?

- I don't want to.

- So what
are the children up to?

- Tom is living in
London, having graduated,

and now working and living in London.

Ollie is working and living at home

and Laura is doing her AS levels.

It was difficult when they
first started to move away.

All those memories of
the children growing up.

It's like a closed chapter now,

'cause you can't bring those days back.

I think what I admire
about the young today

is their confidence, and
that's what I wished I'd had.

They just seem to take
life and deal with it.

- What sort of things do you do?

- Ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong.

And I might play croquet,
anything like that.

- I did have a privileged childhood,

but you have to take
responsibility for your life

somewhere along the line,

and some people take
responsibility earlier than others.

I was just a bit later taking it.

Maybe now is the first time

that I actually feel
happy within my own skin.

It's taken me a long time to do it,

but I actually feel

that I can accept decisions,

wrong decisions, possibly,
that I've made in the past,

I am comfortable with it now.

I can live with it.

- So what's it been like for you

being in these films?

- Very difficult, very painful.

Not an experience I've enjoyed in any way.

Every seven years, it throws up issues

that I guess we all learn
to put into compartments

between the seven years,

and then it all gets opened
up again, and it's difficult.

We were all landed in it,

and most of us have, whatever reason,

chosen to go through with it.

I'm not an outgoing, confident person.

I like my privacy.

I don't like however many million people

picking over my life.

- And is that
what they do, do you think?

- I should think for a
couple of minutes, yes,

and then it's yesterday's news.

And people seem to read into
what they think we all think,

which I find very hurtful, really,

'cause most of them come up
with things that they think,

which is nothing like what's
going through my head.

Oh, so she might be all right.

What's the point of people sort
of going into people's lives

and saying, "Why do you like
this?" and, "Why don't you?"

I just don't see any point in it.

- So have you had
enough of being in the film?

- I mean, who knows in seven years

whether it'll be done again but this is me

saying hopefully, I'll reach
my half-century next year,

and I shall bow out.

- And what
about the other children,

where are they now, what are they doing?

- If I can change the world
I'd change into a diamond.

I don't really think
that I've done anything

you can call a great success.

- When I was born, an illegitimate child,

that something's only whispered about.

- I'm going to work in Woolworths.

At times you think
Christ what have I done?

- I read the "Financial times".

- I read "The Observer" and "The Times".

It's very irresponsible
because we all want more money,

as much money as we can get.

- When I grow up I want to be an astronaut

but if I can't be an astronaut,

I think I'll be a coach driver.

I tend to think most likely answer

is that I'll be wandering homeless

round the streets of London

but with a bit of luck, that won't happen.

- Is Neil still
wandering alone through Britain?

Find out next week.