21 Up (1977) - full transcript

In 1963 World in Action made a film
about these seven year old children

they talked about their homes, their
schools and what they wanted to be

they were filmed again
when they were fourteen

we've brought them all
together to watch the films

because this year
they are twenty-one

what are they doing now?

How have they changed?

What sort of people are they?

Stop it at once!

Give me a child until he is seven

and I will give you the man



When I leave the
school I'm going to..

Colet Court

and then I will be going to
Rossminster Boarding School

if I pass the exam

and then we think I'm going to

Cambridge and Trinity Hall

Well...

before I'm old and that,
enough to get a job

I'll just walk around and
see what I can find

I want to be a jockey
when I grow up yeah

When I leave school

I'm going to The
Dragon School, I might

and after I might go to
Charterhouse Marlborough

What about university Charlie?



I might go to Oxford

What does university mean?

Well...

Well I don't think I
need to go to university

'cause I'm not going
to be a teacher

I don't think you have
to go to university

if you want to be an astronaut

When I leave this school

I'm down for Heathfield
and Fairfield Manor

and then maybe I may
want to go to university

but I don't know which one yet

I will buy myself a nice
new made house, you know

One that's all nice and comfy

I'm going to work in Woolworths

Well, going to Africa

and try and teach people
who are not civilised

to be, more or less good

When I grow up I'd like to

find out all about
the moon and all that

It's just that the limitations
of such things as:

What the audience
require and the time

don't allow it to
be a real study

I mean if we accept this

then it...

Okay I think it's probably
good entertainment

I don't think we've
changed that much

I think we talk,
no I don't mean looks

I mean the way we talk I don't
think we've changed that much

Well you never lose an
Eastend accent do you

I tell you what, as it goes
you've definitely changed

- You think so yeah?
- In facial

You haven't changed
a bit have you?

Don't you think so?
I thought I'd got bigger

You might be about
an inch bigger yeah

- An inch?
- I know it's unbelievable

That's something I did notice,
the way our teeth have changed

Teeth?

Yes

- Mine were out like that and I had them
shoved back - Well I noticed the ears actually

Have you not noticed that a lot of people...
your ears have been made real fun about them

They've got they're
conclusions settled already

They must

met here today
and we've seen the films

and we feel as if we know
everybody who is in the films now

has broken any class barriers
that could previously existed

and therefore the film itself has

possibly defeated its own object

- They do lead me on a bit don't they
- That's what I mean

and they hype the
program up too much

Yeah

and make that
you're good and I'm bad

- Or
- Well Vice-versa I think

- No don't be silly
- No I really do, especially the "7" one

People tend to read significance
into it that I don't think exists

One of my friends for instance,
had me pointed out to him as...

being destined to run the farm

and being educationally pretty inept,
this is obvious from the film

At seven Nicholas was at a one room
village school in the Yorkshire Dales

Do you have a girlfriend?

I don't want to answer that

I don't want answer
those kind of questions

I thought that one would
come up because when I was

When I was doing the
other one somebody said

"what do you think about girls?" and I
said "I don't answer questions like that"

is that the reason
you're asking it?

- Yeah
- thought so

The best answer would be

to say that I don't answer
questions like that but I mean..

You know it was what I
said when I was seven

and it's still the most sensible
but I mean, what about them?

Well you seemed at fourteen

very shy of the whole

sexual life, has that changed?

I've tried to make a change yes

a very definite conscious
effort not to be shy

to be more outgoing

and this is actually something I
can put a point to in my own past

and think yes I did make my
mind up here, here and here

that I was going to try and
change this, this and this

"this" being basically
my confidence

and my

my sort of approach to

well this is to
people in general

When I grow up I'd like to

find out all about the
moon and all that

I mean

I'm not

when I said that I was interested in physics and
chemistry well I'm not going to do that here

You might be able to
get... somebody to ex...

will you explain
this to me again

Nicholas is now in his
2nd year at Oxford University

Well I'm trying
to be a physicist

to fill in the detail of

whenever you meet
somebody at university that

the standard question is,

where are you and
what are you doing?

And my answer is I'm at Merton
College and I'm doing Physics

so it doesn't move up and
down and just rotates

- OK
- Then you put it in

We'll give it a whirl

So what career are
you going to pursue?

It depends whether I'll be good
enough to do what I want to really do

I would like if I can
to do research

Are there any disadvantages in
coming from a small place like this

and preparing
yourself for Oxford?

Well it's a rather
different background

to go any where,
Oxford perhaps especially

it is a rather more firm
foundation I would've thought

as to your

character? I don't?
Perhaps character

than being brought
up in the city

It's a fixed reference
point in a sense

that sort of earthy life
and death cycle that you get

living on a farm

so when something dies it rots
and feeds back into the earth

Sometimes it's helpful

in a city where things that some people are
very concerned about seem quite irrelevant

Is there a new strength
of your father as a farmer

that you think he's
trying to teach you

Well you get a certain sort of
calmness in some situations

take things as they come
you become resigned to things

if the dog's chasing animals in the wrong
direction then you just have to put up with it

if it won't do as it's told you
become resigned to these things

I suppose yes that's
one possibility

come on

come on lad

I suppose of all the
seven year olds

the original ones,
you are the big success

I am not inclined to accept that

Why? You wouldn't
agree with that?

Well what have I achieved?

I'm not really prepared to accept that
I've done anything very special yet

I'd like to think that...I mean I'm
hoping that I might do at some stage

but I don't really think I've done anything
that you can call a great success

It would seem really ridiculous to any
of my friends who watch this if I said

"Christ aren't I a great
success, look at me"

Well what? You know,
what success?

I can't think of it
in those terms

I haven't done anything
that can be called success

nothing out of
the ordinary really

Singing Waltzing
Matilda in Latin

at an exclusive pre-preparatory
school in London

Charles

Andrew

and John

I think it's not a bad
idea to pay for schools

because if we didn't

schools would be so
nasty and crowded

Yes, so do I think so

The poor people would come rushing in and
the man in charge of the school would...

Would you think there's any truth
in the ideas behind the program that

certain people have more options
than others and this is undesirable?

It's certainly true that more people know
they have more options or imagine they have

I think in practical terms

the difference in numerical
number of options isn't that great

the fact is that the three of us know that
there's a whole range of things we can do

But the mere knowledge creates an option in
itself, so I think we do have more options

and it is undesirable but it's
very difficult to correct

I don't think it is
undesirable at all

I think what's undesirable is
people who have had options

don't make advantage of them,
take best advantage of them

but I can't see there's
anything wrong

as long as people don't abuse the
opportunities and privileges they've had

If people behave responsibly
I think it's very good

they're the sort of stability
and structure in society

We've been taught to expect more

it's not that because we've
been to private schools

we're not better
qualified necessarily

- No
- Yes I agree with that

It's a matter of expectations

Yes I must say, all this
talk about opportunities

something I did slightly
object to in the program was

we were shown at
the age of seven

outlining the academic career that
most of us did in fact pursue

each sentence ended up
"John is at Westminster"

Andrew is at Charterhouse
and everything

implied that we just sailed through, merely
manifesting an intention at the age of seven

we didn't show the sleepless nights,
the pouring over our books

sort of, you know

all the sweat and toil that
got us through to university

it was presented as if it
was just part of some

indestructible birth right that
we went to all these places

and I thought that was unfair, they didn't show
us having to do beastly jobs in the holidays

y'know, to make
ends meet and things

it didn't give a very
real sort of...impression

The three girls are earning

income wise they're far better off than I
imagine all three of us are, certainly I am

and background wise

in terms of qualifications or the
means of achieving their ends

they probably have just
as many options as we do

Jaqueline

how do you think about
coloured people?

Well they're nice, they're
just the same as us really

but, one thing

it's only 'cause their
skin's brown and we're white

sort of pinkish we are

Jackie, Lynn and Susan

they went to primary school
together in the Eastend of London

Lynn chose to go on
to a grammar school

and Jackie and Susan
to a comprehensive

There is a danger that you would
get married at early twenties and

have children quickly and
then be stuck at home

have you any thoughts on that?

- I don't really think about it much
- No

I don't think I'd eh...

get married to early

I'd like to have
a full life first and

- I'd like to enjoy myself before I...
- Meet people and...yeah

Before you can commit
yourself to a family

What would you do if you had
lots of money? about two pounds

I would buy myself a nice new
made house you know

one that's all nice and comfy

Jackie was married last year and
now lives on a new estate in Essex

- It's a nice estate
- Yeah - Yeah not bad at all

What are they like the neighbours?
Have you seen a lot of them or what?

Well you know, to say hello
to more than anything, I mean

we borrow things off of her,
which is just as well

- That's what neighbours are for isn't it?
- Yeah right!

Here, It's a similar colour scheme
down here moving up stairs isn't it?

Yeah but this was more by
luck than judgement really

- Was it like this when you came?
- No it was all white

but you can imagine
the state it was in

friends had some paint handy so Dad and Mick
just used the rollers and in a day it was done

two coats, wallop!
That was it

Susan is still single

I work for a travel company

they don't deal with the public, they
deal with groups and company groups

it's sort of incentive, holidays abroad
and conferences, that sort of thing

which I like because
I like foreign places

and I have to do eh...

I do quite a bit of typing

but a lot of my work is
involved in making bookings

and dealing with hotels abroad

I left school and started work...

for an Australian bank
and I'm still there

and I've been there what?
Three and a half years now

I've done various
jobs within the bank

I started off as a
telephonist-typist

which was very interesting actually, you'd
be surprised the sort of calls you get

Then I went on to work
the NCR machine

which is the actual machine
that processes the accounts

and counter work dealing with
clients money and things like that

I'm going to work in Woolworths

Well I'm a school mobile librarian
and assistant to the young peoples office

Which is where we are now

and I've been here
since August last year

Lynn is now married but still
lives and works in the Eastend

I visit schools with the van

where they've not got position to
get into a local library for class visits

I love working with children

do you remember on the
last one I wanted to teach?

Well I didn't get to that

and seeing how it is
today I'm glad I didn't

the job situation for
all teachers as it is

and I think it takes a lot more
patience than I've actually got

I'm much more at home here

- Have I stamped yours?
- Yes

I've not stamped yours

Sleeping Beauty

I've lost the stamp!

Do you sleep like a beauty?

What do you say?

Thank you

I definitely make a point in
reading all my new books I get in

It's quite funny, I
take loads of books home

and people come and say "who
are these kids books on the table?"

- "They're mine"
- "Oh"

Then they sort of shut up

At the moment a career's probably
about the furthest thing from my mind

and I don't really know what I'm aiming
for except to get the house together

and that can take years, as fast as you replace
one thing something else needs replacing, so...

it could just go on like
that, I don't know

Well admitting that
you're not a career girl

does it mean that you're
therefore looking for a family?

Oh I don't know, I suppose I am

But erm..

Every thing's not
that cut and dried

it's not either
career or family or...

but is what's in the middle, am I
just going to carry on as I am now? for?

And end up ...on the shelf?

Or am I just going to get
married? could be any day, but

I suppose Lynn is a career
girl in a way isn't she?

Yeah she's more wrapped
up in her job than I think we are

and you all three were sat there at seven and
she's gone that way and you've gone this way

is there? can you?

Think of any reasons
why that should be?

I think just basic personality, Lynn's always
been that little bit different from us

She's always been more serious
as far as studies are concerned

I didn't feel like going to a
grammar school, I just er...

you know, comprehensive school
it just seemed more friendly

At that time that is, but
now a little bit different

- Grammar school's fantastic
- If you say so!

When I leave this school

I'm down for Heathfield
and Fairfield Manor

and then maybe I may want to go to
university but I don't know which one yet

This is Susie

the product of a private
education and wealthy parents

What do you think about
making this program?

I just think it's ridiculous, I
don't see any point in doing it

Why not?

What's the point of people going
into peoples lives and saying:

"Why do you like this and why
don't you?" I don't see any point in it

Well I didn't want to
do it when I was fourteen

I know I was very difficult
because I was very anti doing it

because I was pressurised
into doing it by my parents

and I hated it

and I vowed I'd never do it now

but here I am

I'd like to do...

short hand typing
or something like that

I left school when I was
sixteen, went to Paris

went to secretarial
college and got a job

What made you decide to
leave school and go to Paris?

I just wasn't interested in school
and just wanted to get away

and why did you choose Paris?

I don't know, it was
my parents really

Did you sort of feel the
need to get away? and why?

Well I'd lived in
London or Scotland

and I knew people who were going out
to Paris and so I thought I'd go as well

Comparing yourselves to Susie

who stands at the other
end of the social scale

do you think you've had the
same opportunities as her?

I've had the opportunities
in life that I've wanted

I'd say I've had more
opportunities than Susie

I'd say I've had more
opportunities than her

in a different aspect to
what she's had them

But eh, my life, I've been able to
do more or less what I wanted to do

I'm not going to say it on
film, what I feel for her

But I think she's been so conditioned into
what she should do and what she shouldn't do

Yeah but I mean

The whole thing is you're saying
"do we envy anything Susie's had?"

No

I mean I don't know

I don't know what Susie's had,
what's Susie had that I haven't had?

I mean, until I know that I can't
honestly say whether I envy her

- She's had money and she's travelled
- I've got money!

Maybe not enough but I've got it!

I have been to Honolulu with
my father about two years ago

for a couple of months

which I didn't really enjoy

there's nothing much out there, there's
no meet people my own age out there

and I hated it and I
was glad to come home

apart from that I've
been to France on holidays

I'm going to Australia
in the summer

for about two months

otherwise I don't know where I'm going
to go and I'd like to go and travel more

Why?

Well I don't think there's any
point in sitting in your own country

I'd like to see how people live
on the other side of the world

Tell me about the
Australian trip

Well I'm going in July for about
two months with my cousin

her elder sister's
married out there

and we're just going out to...

see what it's like

we're going to not work out there,
we're only going for two months

We just feel if we don't
go now we never will

We've got the opportunity and
the time to go now so we're going

How are you going to pay for it?

Save up and go

Do you get depressed
by money problems?

No, why?
Why should you?

- If you can manage on what you've got
- I refuse to get depressed over money

- It's so easy to but why should you?
- I do, I do

Why worry about it?

When I reach the 18th day of the month
and my mortgage is due on the 20th

and there's nowhere near enough money in
there, I get depressed about it obviously

Suddenly thinking, oh my god what's
going to happen, you know

But it gets there, don't
ask me how but you get it

Do you think you've
settled down to young?

No

I've married and we do
things together, or...

I go out on my own sometimes
with friends from work

he does the same, what do
you mean by settled down?

If you think that getting married
as far as we're concerned is a case of

going to work, come home, cook tea for hubby,
going to bed, getting up, going to work

you're totally mistaken

Did you meet enough men
before you decided who to marry?

I've been married a year and...

a couple of months

you do think "christ,
what have I done?"

- See I've still got my ideals
- and I'm being honest about it!

And my husband thinks the same, at
times you think "christ, what have I done?"

- But then if...
- But marriage...

Marriage means a
different thing to me

I've still got my ideals about marriage, I
don't know what it's all about, obviously

So I've still got pictures of

- Cosy evenings indoors...yeah
- With roses!

She'd have cosy evenings
indoors with the central heating!

Or lack of it!

- Yeah, I've got a lot to learn
about... getting married

I mean, your parents split up
soon after you were fourteen

What sort of influence,
effect did that have on you?

Well I was the only child going through
their parents splitting up aged 14

at a very vulnerable age
and it does touch you up, but...

You know, you get over it

There was no point in
them staying together for me

if it was worse,
I mean the rows and...

and it's worse

so if two people can't live together
there's no point in making yourself

even for the sake of children

What is your attitude towards
marriage? for yourself?

Well I don't know, I haven't given it a
lot of thought as I'm very cynical about it

But then you get a certain
amount of faith restored in it

I mean I've got friends and their
parents are happily married

and it does put faith back into you
but me myself I'm very cynical about it

Why?

Because I think it kills
whatever love is

it just seems to go wrong

What do you base that on?

Well, people I've seen,
people around me

I mean I've got...not a lot of
my friends are married

a lot of people who are 20,30 all seem to
be getting divorced and can't stay together

and at the moment I just
don't really believe in it

Why do you think people
can't hold marriages together?

I don't know, I
really don't know

I don't sort of sit down and
think "ooh ...analyse marriage"

It's not something I've had to think
about whether I was going to get married

and I've got no desire to at the
moment, I think twenty is far too young

What was the wedding like?

Our wedding?
A laugh!

I wanted, white
wedding, all trimmings

My husband would've been
satisfied with very little

but being as we were
going into it as a full thing

we went into it

I had an all white
wedding, all white

We were both in white and
my bridesmaid was in white

It's a funny day actually

because I suppose I was up somewhere
around the five o'clock mark

and I spent all day preparing

well all morning I should say

and then sitting around
for about three hours

just waiting for something to happen
then when it did happen I don't remember it

So

It was just complete
confusion really

- It was a nice day though
- Oh yeah

It was funny actually, you can
imagine some of the comments

I was pleased I was there, it
seemed the right place to be

I mean I was glad I was at her
wedding, I've known her a long while

Did anything happen?
Anything funny?

I can't forget the cake

It was horrific really, the cake
what happened to the wedding cake

it was sitting right
in between Mick and myself

suddenly the columns just completely
gave way and it just all fell into one

- It was a nice cake though!
- Yeah it wasn't bad!

I read the Financial Times

I read the Observer and the Times

What do you like about it?

Well I like...

I usually look at the headlines
then read about them

about it

I like my newspaper because
I've got shares in it

- and I know every day what the shares are
- The stuff that misers like you like!

But on Monday's they don't
move up so I don't look at it

That's one of the troubles with this sort of
program, I don't really think that people like us

Unless we're seven and being rather
funny, have very much to say that's...

very interesting,
because I mean...

we don't know very much

Well we didn't know very
much when we were seven

- But we were still quite funny
- We were at least funny!

- Yes! - Yes!
- In ourselves!

I agree with John, all we
can say is what we think

and if that's of interest to
people, good luck to them

Yes and I can't believe it is

More fool them!

When I leave this school
I'm going to College Court

then I would be going to Westminster
Boarding School if I pass the exam

and then we think I'm going to

Cambridge and Trinity Hall

John is in his final year at
Christchurch Oxford, reading Law

I do believe parents have a right to
educate their children as they think fit

I think someone who works on an assembly
line in a car factory, earning a huge wage

could well afford to send their children
to private school if they wanted to

Just because..

Some sort of people perhaps don't
put that as high on their priorities as...

having a smart car or something

I don't think that's any reason
for abolishing public school

I think an awful lot more people
could afford to send their sons to school

You know, to fee paying school

But they don't choose to,
and that's their choice

I'm going to Charterhouse

and after that,
Trinity Hall Cambridge

Andrew is in his last year at Trinity
College Cambridge, reading Law

I think if people earn their money
they should have a right to spend it

an education is very important

and you can never be sure of leaving
your children any worldly goods but

at least you can be sure that once
you've given them a good education

that's something that
no one can take away

What about university Charlie?

I might go to Oxford

You're reading history at Durham
University, you didn't make Oxford

What are your feelings about that?

I don't mind at all

In fact

I'd say I'm pleased I didn't

because it was very much a sort of

sort of set of
Marlborough Prep School

Marlborough, Oxbridge,
conveyor belt

you get shoved out at the end

and you...

when you go to Oxbridge and it's
obviously not true in all cases but

I think for the majority

they mix with the same people
they were at school with

So what attracts you to Oxford?

Well first of all it's such
a beautiful place

there's more to it than just
studying away at one's books

I think it's very difficult
not to get something out of it

there's such a sort of...

atmosphere of culture and...

and timelessness about the place that
I think you do sort of mature an awful lot

So what is Beagling?

Beagling is the
hunting of the hare

with a pack of hounds,
done on foot

I mean a lot of people
seem to imagine

a days hunting with either
fox to hunt or beagles

unadulterated butchery.
I mean this just isn't true, I think

I wish people had a more
realistic idea of what it's about

The hounds are over there I think

I saw them last streaming
along that hedge there

- Frustrating isn't it?
- Yes

I'm reasonably old fashioned about
some things but I mean

I mean people who go on a lot about the
permissive society are missing the point

if they think the only
thing that's wrong is sex

I think you know, decreasing
respect for the family as a unit

increasing dishonesty,
both in business...

there used to be much more much stronger
developed ideas of commercial integrity

than seem to be going around nowadays,
nowadays people seem to be out for themselves

I really do think I suppose there is
an invasion by the American way of life

which I think is a very sad thing

Is that unstoppable?
That trend do you think?

I think it really is
unfortunately, yes

So where does that
leave your values?

Well it leaves them with me

and my future children whom
I shall implicate them in

But do you not find
yourself isolated?

That really doesn't matter

If I believe my
principals are right

and I'm doing the right thing
to bring my children up by them

it won't matter to me whether
I'm living in the middle-ages mentally

I shall do what's right

Well when I was very small my
father always used to go ski-ing

and he took me with him

and we've been ever since really

and how old or young were
you when you started?

Oh about five, on tiny little ski's

it was quite frightening then

what is the appeal of it?

Well the sort of freedom and
going in the snow and the mountains

and the feeling of speed

and getting away
from people if you can

Do you save up to
come ski-ing or...?

I don't but my father does

as he pays for me

Your parents have been
divorced since fourteen

- Since you were fourteen
- That's right, quite recently yes

Tell me about that and
the influence it's had on you

Well not much influence in fact

because it's happened
when I'm quite old

and I'm away from
home a lot anyway

it's very sad of course

but I don't think it has had
a great deal of influence

if it had happened
when I was much younger

it would've had much
more influence

an adverse influence
I would've thought

Did your parents divorce
leave any lasting mark on you?

I don't know, I mean

seen the film at fourteen so

and that's of our closest time,
I would've thought it did but...

don't talk about that anyway so...

Why?

I think it's unfair on them

Very few parents I think,
bring up their children...

with the intention of belittling them
or doing as little for them as possible

I think

you have to assume that most
parents do as much as they can

given the circumstances
of the children

and obviously things
could've been far worse

Do you think it's changed your
attitude to marriage? or...

It just means that

because I was faced with that situation I
have an attitude which is a positive attitude

rather than "well everybody else gets
married therefore I shall get married"

My attitude would be that if
one is going to have children

if you want to have children then that's
a very real reason for getting married

but if you get married...

it's an agreement to make the
thing work for eighteen years

or however long it is until
the children have grown up

no there's no point in just
sitting it out for eighteen years

there's nothing worse than that, it would
be better for the parents to get a divorce

I think people

perhaps don't make
as much effort

as they should have, or should
do to make marriages work

it's very easy for me to say so as
I've never been in the position

In what way should
people make more effort?

I think people just take too much
for granted when they get married

or used to, not now perhaps

I mean, I don't know
about you for instance

I know my mother,
she's said that

she's spoilt really

and she never realised how lucky
she'd been until she'd been divorced

Up to about twelve

maybe it's different with
other people, but

I found that you're much
more attached to your parents

once you come to about
thirteen, fourteen

you're not quite so
attached to them

I think the system of
having house captains

is rather good

because when somebody is naughty

the house captain asks him and...

and has a talk to him

once I had a talk to Grevil,
he was in my house

and

I asked Sir if he could put him out of my
house because he was always getting minuses

What did Sir say?

Sir said that he would...

we would see about it this term

Well I think it's a
very good system

Have you had to speak to anyone?

- Just because you are one I suppose?
- No, no I haven't!

- You're not are you?
- But I am!

Straw, Mac and Nessie got
three minuses in a day

If I work in Law I should like
a reasonable amount of success

I shouldn't like to be on the
bread-line which is all to common

I'd like to be a Solicitor

and, also fairly successful

I only know what I
don't want and that's

a nuclear family in a
semi-detached in Brentford

Do you three see yourselves...

staying in England, living in England,
making your careers in England?

Yes

Well the trouble is Law
is not really very exportable

From my point of view anyway

I quite like England

'cause I can't say I really approve very
much of the sort people who emigrate

I mean it's too
easy for people who...

this is where I would agree with you
about people who have had opportunities

I do think they've got a corresponding
duty to sort of put back...

you know, people who have had
things going well for them

really ought to stay and help the country
out when things aren't going very well

I don't believe in all
this pulling one's money out

but that's a moral point of view, I do believe
people have the right to live where they like

and also to move
their assets around

but on a moral level I do feel very
strongly that people shouldn't quit

- Is that why you don't want to leave?
- Yes

and also I can't imagine
anywhere so nice as England

Probably stay in England for the reasons that
John put forward, I think one has a moral duty

It sounds terrible
but, you know...if...

It's up to one certainly
to make an attempt

to put something back in to whatever
it is that you're doing in England

Having used the various facilities that
are put out for you by the state

I think the more you've
had out of the country

the more privileges
you're born with

the greater your duty is

We chose two boys from a
children's home in Middlesex

Paul

Say you had a wife

say you had to eat
what they cooked you

and say I don't like
vegetables, well I don't

and say she said "you have
to eat what you get"

So I don't like vegetables so say she
gives me vegetables then that's it

Well as far as I know my
mother and father got...

well they separated
originally I think

they eventually got divorced

I went to the boarding school for one
year then we emigrated to Australia

my father got remarried

and how do you get on
with your step-mum?

Pretty well but like I said
before I'm just not close enough

I'm not really close
to my father either

Paul left the children's home
when he was eight

Our other boy stayed
until he was thirteen

Symon

Was it difficult moving from the
home back to live with your mother?

- You're still here after, eight years now?
- Yeah yeah

Well I find it's comfortable

See I can get on well with
my mother sometimes

well that's good
because a lot of...

young children can't get on with their parents
at all at this time of the year, their life

but I get on pretty
well with my mum now

we talk very well with each other

but it's..

Sometimes not quite
as mother and son

sort of more like friends

What sort of life does
your mother have?

Well it seems hard, I mean
she's always been...

nervous

not all the time, but...

she has periods of depression or deep
depression or whatever you want to call it

that sort of makes me think
"well what happened there?"

What effect has that
had on you do you think?

Well it's made me very sort
of protective towards her

I feel I've got to
help her all the time

They say "Where's your
father then?"

You know when your mums out at
work "Where's your father?"

and I just tell them
I ain't got one

What effect has that had on you?

Well I don't think it's had
any effect on me, 'cause...

what you don't have
you don't miss

Twenty years ago

when I was born

an illegitimate child, you know

that's something that's
only whispered about

people feel strongly
about it in those days

but nowadays it's..

It's not a serious matter

the serious point is whether you
stay with someone or you leave them

We took Paul and Symon round the buildings
which were once the children's home

I remember this path but I've
never walked on it was out of bounds

the only place I saw this was
from out the windows and that

- What was that there?
- That? That was eh...

That was hospital juniors,
that's where we used to be

- Really?
- Yeah

I don't like the big boys

Hitting us and...

and the staff is up
in the washroom

sends the nurse out,
"well there's no talking"

"No I wasn't talking today"

Then Brown sent
me out for nothing

Remember the tiles?

- No not really - Yeah I remember
them when they were cleaner

- I remember the two offices
- Yeah the doctors and the nurses

Some things gone

- The seats
- Yeah the seats

The smell, the smells gone

- Remember Midgely
- Yeah

He was a real bastard

I remember one night,
I forget what I actually did

But he made me clean
all the shoes in the house

there was about fifty pair of shoes
and took about two hours or something

Well I feel like joining in
when there's already a fight

Ah do you remember Froggy Page?

No

He was the tailor

- I remember him
- Tailor?

Yeah he was here for thirty-seven
years or something

bent over backwards or bent
over forwards or something

- The golf course
- Yeah

Used to think about running away
over that when you'd get scared

That's where the headmaster's son used to shoot
the squirrel's off the trees isn't it - yeah

Do you remember the boy that

in the senior part

where my brother was, he

he was sleeping one time and he
went out the second story window

Oh the sleep walker,
Weaver, Robert Weaver

- We all had to pray for him
- Yeah

- Everybody said he had a steel
plate in his head - Yeah

How have you got on with Symon? after
you haven't seen him for fourteen years

Well I didn't recognise him at all

I think we got along really well, I
don't know what he'd say to that but

I found him very likeable

He's just the sort of person who if I
could I'd like to do something for them

Because I feel I've got, no offence to
him, but I feel I've got more than him

It's just that it
seems to me that

things have fallen
into line now for me

Every thing's started to come
good, I've started to enjoy life

and I've started to think
"well I'm not a no hoper"

Because I think that's what
I've always thought about myself

I know I didn't have
any confidence in myself

despite what I said
when I was fourteen

I've always lacked confidence

I still do to a certain
extent but nothing

nothing like I did say
when I was fourteen

The job I'm in, I
mean, brick laying

I mean I enjoy it,
it interests me

and I'm very content at work

in June last year I was
made a junior partner

though that was
through circumstances

but I look at it this way

I'm not great with my life

but if I wasn't good enough and
my boss didn't think I was good enough

he would've never made
me a junior partner

as for the job

you know, you build a house

then you turn around and look
at it and say "well I did that"

it's better than having
a whole row of figures

it's substance you know,
there's something there

Symon works in the freezer room of a
meat company near his home in Middlesex

My job's running away from me

You do jobs which I suppose
are fairly routine and dull

- Yeah
- What keeps you going during them?

Oh it's definitely
the people there

You work up a kind of team
spirit there, y'know what I mean

You can...

think about all the work
you've got to do in the morning

and you just don't want to go

but once you get there
just sort of generally...

I was going to say messing around
there, I won't say that

the managers might see it

sort of joking about

they make you feel you
want to get the work done

Go out and get some

just ask for them

and we always say

when we come out of the chiller
we don't want to go back in

but when we get
back in we get on with it

So are you a good time keeper?

Ah it depends

Usually I try to get
to work early

but I have periods of
where I just say "sod it"

if I get there I get there

I think the hardest thing
is to get up in the morning

for me it takes a great
deal out of me now

Do you never feel you should
be doing better jobs than these?

Aren't you worth more than this?

No I haven't really

I suppose I just like hard
work, I don't know

But eh...

It's never really
sort of worried me

I suppose it should
but it just hasn't

and how do you see the
future as far as work goes?

Well I know I can't stay at Walls
forever, I mean it's just not me

I couldn't stay there for that
long, my mind would go dead

But eh...

I think if I really wanted to
I could learn a trade, even now

Y'know if I really felt that I ought
to get out and do something different

I could learn a
trade if I wanted to

and what would you like to
be doing say in seven years?

Well I couldn't really say I haven't
thought one year ahead yet

I think I'm still sort
of young in my head

I don't really sort of
take things seriously

All I want out of
life is to be happy

and when I say happy I want
to be happily married as well

because I can't say I
don't want to get married

because I think I do

but I want to be
happily married y'know

therefore I want to
make sure I think

How would you define
happiness? What is it?

Basically to me it's
the will to live

I mean, me I literally
love life, I love people

I mean I think before I didn't

I mean, when I
was fourteen I said

I've forgotten what the
question was but I said

something about I
want to be alone

and when I said that I know
even now I meant that

if someone had dropped
me out in the Sahara Desert

I probably would've been happy
more or less if you get the point

Whereas I'm not like that now,
I'd sooner be around people

I don't like doing
things by myself

and happiness to me is a love
for life and a love for people

I think I admire people
with great determination

y'know like people who just
come up from nothing

they build up their life
from absolutely nothing

I could say Muhammad Ali

because he absolutely
came from nothing

I mean you can't agree with everything
he says but his word goes down now

he's the biggest thing in sport
he's one of the biggest things in life

I mean people like him

What when you look at yourself do you
think your weaknesses and strengths are?

I think my main weakness is
I don't really take a grip of life

I don't really look...

I always look deeply into
it but it just seems to be...

just a sort of hobby with me, I
look at everything and I criticise it

and I work everything out but
after that I just sort of leave it

I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time

although I'm getting
on top of that

more happy now?

Just the simple things to say to Susan,
y'know "I love you" or something like that

I mean I can tell
you about it but

I really haven't been able
to say it freely to Susan

I suppose that's a weakness

Do you have a dream?

A dream? not...

Not so much a dream but I know
if I ever wanted to get on I could do it

I mean I always feel that I've got something
inside me that would make me move

But eh...

I think what it is really is I'm just
waiting for an excuse to use it

Y'know at the moment I feel
ok just getting on with my life

just sort of keeping up

but I know if I really
wanted to I could get on

It'll only take a little
spark with me to do it

Is it important to fight? Yes

Would everybody please sit round
now and get on with their work

I don't want to see
any backs to me

Shouldn't be anybody turning
round, Tony do you hear aswell?

Get on with your work in front

Tony!

Don't turn round again

I want to be a jockey when I grow up
yeah I want to be a jockey when I grow up

Tony left his Eastend secondary
modern school at fifteen

and became an apprentice at
Tommy Gosling's racing stables in Epsom

This is a photo finish of
when I rode at Newberry

I'm the one with the white cap

I was beaten a length and a half
for third and had a photo finish

so I took it out the box and
kept it as a souvenir

Have you any other pictures
of you as a jockey?

Yeah I've got a lot of them

Show me that one

That one when I was at Windsor

that was my last ride on the old
horse, Sharrod Heath that was

he was a lovely old horse,
I'll never forget him

How many rides did you have?

Only three

Why was that?

Well obviously if I was good
enough I would've had more

that was the first day I ever
put myself in jockey silks

that was my first ride ever

How did it feel like?

It feel like there's no words
that can explain how it felt

that one was when I
was going to the parade ring

They're not very good

my brother, I mean he's not
no good at taking photos

He's no Lord Snowdon

But describe the feeling, go on

Describe, well...I mean I..

Frankie Durr right, he was
told to look after me

so I went in there I said "I
don't know my first ride"

and he said "alright don't worry, your
boss has told me to look after you"

and so

I was changing into my silks

and I felt good y'know, I could
see all the faces that I think

and when I look at the newspaper I
think, Jeff Lewis, Frankie Durr and...

I thought to myself all of a sudden I'm
in the same room getting changed

Then I walked in the parade room

the parade ring and eh...

and all my family's there and
they're all going "Go on Tone!"

and the boss came over and he said

you've got to do this to the horse,
you hold him back, you go half pace

keep your hands down,
keep him in the rails

and I'm going "yeah
yeah" like, nod

and all of a sudden when he
said "Jockeys please mount"

and the bell went "Ding ding"

and my heart just sunk
because I thought to myself

Here I was yesterday
a sort of nobody

and here I am today, I'm king like

I felt king for one day,
well for ten minutes

Do you regret not making it?

Well I would've given my right
arm at the time to become a jockey

But now...

well I wasn't good enough,
it's as easy as that

What will you do if you
don't make it as a jockey?

I don't know

If I knew I couldn't be
one I'd get out of the game

wouldn't bother

and what do you think
you would do then?

Learn taxi's

Taxi driver

I will be a cab driver
right, how can I fail?

I got one brother
taxi driver pulling me

and the other brother pushing
me so I got to make it

I will be a cab driver
and I know I will

and I'm going to prove every person
who thinks I can't be a cab driver wrong

and I'm going to get that
badge and put it right in their face

just to tell them how wrong they
can be and how under estimated I am

Doing the taxi knowledge means Tony
going out on his motorbike every day

and learning the hundreds of
routes round the streets of London

Well I can just get up, go on my
bike, do two runs, come home

call them over then boom, I've done my days
work then I go
out here and earn my money

Hackney Wick it's
my sort of living

I can say until the time
I am a cab driver

But mean my freedom's here and
that is the main thing what I want

Tony spends his spare time at Hackney Wick
Greyhound Stadium placing bets for the punters

Fifty-five to twenty Boris

Five to one Cooladine

Four and a half fifty's,
four and a half fifty's

Poor-Sunshine fourteen to one

Take it, take it!

If your father gambles you always
looked upon how he gambles

I tried my luck and
see what he does

and I took it from there,
it's sort of in you

some people drink and they can't get out of
drinking, some people smoke and can't stop smoking

well I think I'm firmly on
the ground as a gambler

I know you can't win gambling, putting
money on the dogs and horses, I know that

But when you put other
peoples money on you can't lose

What do they call you here?

I reckon a pest, or
something like that

'cause I'm always running and doing
everything that I shouldn't be doing

I thought I was going to get
barred one day 'cause I used to...

Well I don't mean to make
a nuisance of myself

I mean if the other
patrons of the place

they don't want to see a little
boy nipping between their feet

running, putting a
bet on for a person

You understand? they think "cor
what's he doing is he mad?"

I mean I walk up there
I order the teas

There could be eight people
in front of me, I just go...

Can I have a tea please,
tea please, five times

tea please tea please

and they've got to serve me before them
to get rid of me, do you understand?

So that's how you've got to do it

Just keep on and on
and on and they go

"oh driving me mad, here you are,
get rid of him" it's as easy as that

That's the way to get on in
life, just be a noise, annoyed

annoyance all the time to a person and they go
"oh he's driving me mad, get him away from me

and more or less they
give you the first option

sort of find that

You're very short, has
that had much trouble?

Well a bird said
to me the other day

She said "ain't you small"

So I said "but you're ugly
at least I can grow"

What can they say to that? they
can't say nothing can they?

To a thing like that, or...

or example...

She said to me "Ain't you small" so I looked
at her tits and she was only about a thirty

I said "But you're not too big
either so we're both in the same way"

- Have you got a girlfriend?
- No

Would you like to
have a girlfriend?

No

Do you understand "The Four F's?"

Find the, feed them, forget them

for the other F I'll let you
use your own discrimination

I mean...

this one

I tried to do the three F's

but I couldn't forget her

I'd done the three F's
but I couldn't forget her

It sounds silly but that's
the only way I can put it

Tell me about the family,
are you fairly closely knit?

Well I love them all

There's not one I don't love more than
the other, other than my mum obviously

but your mum is the root of the
tree, you love your mum best

So what do you like about
living in the Eastend?

It's very sort of real,
there's nothing false

only the police!

I'm firmly placed and there's no way I can see
getting out, I wouldn't want to get out really

It's very hard to make it in the Eastend because
the roots are firmly stuck in the ground

and you've got to have a
big hard pull to get them out

So are there many
villains in the Eastend?

There has been in
the time I suppose

the originals were
the Kray twins

We're in Vallance Rd now, as
it goes they used to live here

in a house they used
to call Fort Vallance

'cause it was that hard
to get into I expect

Do you have much
to do with villains?

I can't say I have much to do,
I wouldn't say I'm a villain myself

I don't go thieving and don't do
anybody any harm fighting wise

I'm trying to say that

Wherever you go there's villains and whether
you mix with them or not it's up to you

Does it worry you the possibility
of becoming one of them?

How can I become a villain?

If it's not in there, it's not born
in there you won't become one

Don't you think you're going to
regret not having an education?

Where does that come into it?
It doesn't come into it in my mind?

Education is just a thing to say
"my son is higher than him"

or "my son had a better
background than him"

I mean

I'm as good or even better
than most of them people

especially on this program

I mean

On one of the trailers
you'll think

oh the Eastend boy and he
ain't got a no good education

but all of a sudden the Eastend boy's got a car
and a motorbike and he goes to Spain every year

and whatever

and have I worked for it?

No I'm here putting bets on

and you think "how
does he do it?"

and there's a boy,
who's he? and whatever

he's studying to be a
professor, he's making up things

They're mainly education, there's
no education in this world

Just one big rat
race and you've got to

kill your man next to you
to get in front of him

What do you think about trade
unions and things like that?

I don't under know I don't

I don't know enough to know about
them if you understand me

I mean

I'm not a politician so let them worry
about what's coming for the next day

all I understand is

dogs, prices, girls, knowledge, roads,
streets, squares and mum and dad and love

that's all I understand that's
all I want to understand

Here you are

Come on three chase it

Come on boy

Go on three inside

Come on three???

He's checking everywhere...

Well going to Africa

and try and teach people
who are not civilised

to be more or less good

No I don't want to be a missionary because
I just can't talk about it to people

Y'know, I am interested in it myself
but I wouldn't be very good at it at all

and I wouldn't enjoy it

Why wouldn't you be good at it

Well I'm just not
very good at...

at standing up in front of people and
making a speech or anything like that

I'd like to keep it
private, y'know

Is it possible you might ever
think of going to the church?

It is possible, I've
never said no definitely

But I wouldn't be doing it
after I go to university

I mean it's just possible in
ten years time I suppose

What would draw
you to the church?

I don't know, it wouldn't be dissatisfaction
with whatever I'm doing at the moment

In a way

If whatever I was doing I
was doing very successfully

then that would be a better reason
for going into the church really

or at least if I did go into the church
it would meant I was giving something up

But

I think the wrong reasons are if you
are dissatisfied with what you're doing

in the general sense
of doing a job badly or

a failure in some sort of way

Bruce is in his final year at University
College Oxford, reading mathematics

and by Eisenstien you can
show that this is irreducible

then you do a transformation
on this???? x = to T+2

which you find is T cubed plus
17 squared plus 14 T plus 7

and

you observe that
seven which is a prime

divides the co-efficient
of T squared

T and the constant, not T cubed

and seven squared doesn't
divide the constant term

so by Eisenstien

this is irreducible

so therefore two cross, two
by seven is of degree three

and that length
isn't constructable

from the quarry of
our original theorem

so therefore the
septagon's not constructable

Well that's a nice way of doing it,
particularly using Eisenstien down here

his test is very popular, he
was an interesting mathematician

What sort of job are
you going to try for?

Well there was one job, I'd
like to make maps really

and it's nice sort
of outdoor life

you go to...I mean
you travel around

and eh...

but there are very
few jobs like that going

I'm sort of qualified, a general maths
or science degree would do

or geography degree

But eh...

I think I've probably
missed it this time round

and eh...but that's only...

perhaps I won't like making maps,
it's something that I think I would do

Millbrook probably had a
great influence on me in a way

I mean I was absolutely shocked
rigid when I went to my prep school

and found people who
thought of doing things wrong

I never really upset anyone
or questioned authority

or misbehaved in any
of my two later schools

which may seem an ideal thing but it's probably
healthy to question why you have to do certain things

which I never did

Bruce was a border at this pre-preparatory
school from the age of five

Squad left foot in one place

squad breathe in

Well it is mainly this
lack of responsibility

for doing jobs given to me

people will say "why haven't you
done this? Look you've upset us"

I was secretary of bridge society,
chess society, cricket society

Scottish dancing society

and I didn't do anything for any
of them, they were all very angry

and I spent last summer
term in total seclusion

I saw maybe half a
dozen people all term

in my room, darting
across courts

people would say "I saw Balden
today" and they'd say "No? really?"

it was awful really

My hearts desire is to see my
daddy who is six thousand miles away

Y'know I've been getting
on well with my step-father

and I like seeing my
father occasionally

and he does come
over from Rhodesia

What effect has the fact that you've
seen very little of your father had on you?

Nothing really, I only
something I regret that...

I didn't really get to
know him better at all

We've written and we're both very
bad writers, I'm probably worse than him

and eh...

that's something I regret is not
having a just a regular correspondence

because I think he's an
interesting man actually

and eh...

he probably regrets it as well

What do you think about
your own upbringing?

What have been the strongest
influences on that?

Probably to not let
down my mother really

because she's worked awfully
hard to get me through school

and

I haven't let her down yet

then..

As far as...eh
not having...

my mothers divorce

I don't think that really has the
effect that people imagine it to have

I mean I always have got
on well with my stepfather

and with my half-sister, so in
that sense I've had a family life

I'd help people
if I had a chance

Y'know by say giving a little bit of
money to charity or sponsoring things

or things like that

Well I took nine months off

between school and university

and there I taught at a school and
worked in the Banbury sewage works

two months

What sort of school was it?

Well I never like admitting this
but it was a handicapped school

I mean

it seems to present me as
wanting to do these things

I suppose in a way I do, and

I do get some satisfaction
from doing it, but...

I could so easily have
done something else

it was just almost an accident that
I ended up at the spastic school

and eh...

I'm glad I did it
because I enjoyed it

not for its...

I suppose slightly charitable
nature of the work, but

the people I met, work,
it was quite good

Why are you frightened of
presenting this image of yourself

It's...

It's possibly because I

I don't know, I never
want to feel to proud really

I mean it's dangerous for
a start and it's so easy

and

it doesn't work in a way because I
can try and pretend to be humble

that's being proud in
just the same sort of way

I find it a very difficult
thing to avoid, pride

Tell me, are you interested
in politics at all?

Not as much as I was

I am about the only
socialist in my village

and I go into the pub

and sort of expect to stand up
and defend all socialist policies

sort of, this is
the village socialist

no, village idiot, sorry

you agree with all this immigration
so I stand up and defend it

and it's awfully hard work though
I think I'm going to give that up

So where do you stand
politically now then?

I'm still socialist but not as
energetically as I was I suppose

What do you think about the way
England's being run at the moment?

Well...

I'm glad the socialist's
are in power because

This illusive thing called freedom
is sort of rearing its head

and the conservatives
are pushing it forward

and I thought this
argument was smashed

at the early years of this century
but it seems to be coming back

and it really is exceptionally
dangerous because

the more you try
and defend freedom

you allow everybody to do
exactly what they like within limits

then the less you have

I mean there's no
freedom in living in a slum

It's alright you can say the
chap can do whatever he wants

he can get a better job or anything
but that's just not the case

the more you defend freedom
the less you have it

Well my girlfriend is in Africa

and I don't think I'll have
another chance of seeing her again

Have you got any girlfriends?

No, not yet

I'm sure it will come, but not yet

What is your attitude to sex?

Well it's not quite, normal
attitude to anti-sex

I mean I as it were
burnt my fingers a little

I don't feel as though I'm
missing anything now

I don't feel a need for it

and I'm quite happy at not
feeling a need for it really

I mean I do think a lot of people
think too much about it

What happened
when you burnt your fingers?

I'd rather not talk
about it really

well no in fact I don't
really mean that

I don't mean I don't
want to talk about it

it's just I'd need quite a long
time to think about it really

Why?

Well in the end I
decided the eh...

the effect, the pleasure, or...

just didn't seem worth it really

didn't seem worth...

See I think there's
two different sorts

there's casual sex then there's
sex in love and marriage

and

casual seks is not...

I don't think it's quite as
widespread as people believed

because

if both the people treat it as
casual sex then I think it's alright

but

if you're sort of looking for

I don't know this may
seem awfully silly but

if you're looking for casual sex
but don't want to treat it as such

then it doesn't seem to be worth
the lies, I don't know the...

the sort of effort

- Is this what happened to you?
- I suppose in a way yes

Have you been in love?

No, no

and eh...

I think I'll probably have
to wait for that really

Play international wrestling

Yeah that's only at
summertime though

Yeah summer we can
go on the grass

Neil went to a comprehensive
school in Liverpool

got four A-levels then walked out
of Aberdeen university after one term

and is now doing
casual labour in London

I came to London I think because
I wanted to start a new life really

I'd left the university
in Aberdeen

in the end of nineteen
seventy-five

and I became conscious of the
fact that I was drifting around

which I suppose I'm still doing here but at
least I took the decision to move myself

and I think possibly there's more challenge in
London than there ever could be in Aberdeen

Peter, Neil's school
friend from Liverpool

is now in his last year at
London university, reading history

It was obviously a big step

it was exciting more than anything,
I mean that sounds corny but it was

Do you remember the
day you left Liverpool?

Yeah very well

It was pouring down with
rain, I remember that

just had the traditional send of from the
train station, my mum and dad were there

a couple of mates turned up at the
last minute, from the school to see me

- Catch a girl and kiss a girl
- Yeah

and what happens then?

- Well the girls are all screaming
- Yeah

and then we catch
them we kiss them

We're interested in
contrast with you and Neil

were you aware of differences
in home background at the time?

Oh sure yeah, I mean both Neil's
parents are teachers as you know

that's got to be a hell of
a difference for a start

I mean, I'm not knocking them
for a minute, they're very nice people

but eh...

there's obviously going to be some sort
of academic type atmosphere in the house

which I did notice
one or two times

but I think Neil

whether by design or just
by the situation he was in

was obviously going to
be under more pressure

I came to London and I
contacted an agency for squatters

and they were able to give
me the address of somebody

who was able to help people who were looking
for accommodation in the London area

and by a process of
chasing people around

I eventually managed to
find this place here

I wouldn't squat in a place which
I knew to be owned by somebody else

I wouldn't, certainly because
I knew if I had a place of my own

and found somebody
squatting in it I'd be disgusted

But this place was empty

and I was simply offered a place to
live here and was very grateful for it

and I think in
questions of squatting

a bit of humanity is more important that
vain rules about who can live where

In contrast, Peter lives
in a flat in North London

sharing with three
other students

there have been three
guys living here originally

and one of them left

to get engaged,
virtually married

and the flat was meant
for four in the first place

so Dave and Trev asked Ian
and I if we'd like to move in

because we did 'cause we'd been
searching for a flat for some months

so we jumped at the
opportunity really

I've got my own room, I
can cook whenever I like

I haven't got a landlady to
tell me what time to come in

I've got my own front door key

and to tell the truth it's a lot better
than a lot of the accommodation I've had

over the last eighteen
months or so

it could be a bit warmer,
it's a bit chilly

but eh...

it's perfectly satisfactory
for the time being

These are obvious
restrictions, y'know

not able to cook for yourself

you've got to think
for yourself a lot more

but it's eh...

certainly not as exhausting or
wearing as I thought it would be

I mean, y'know...

coming up myself is a
challenge of some sort

we're going to have to split
two sausages into three now

Well once Caroline Tetford
said she loved me

and I'm going to marry
her when I grow up

I hate her, she's always getting
bad tempered and cross with me

- Does she?
- Yeah

She says "Neil Hughes, move
your desk forward"

and when I put it back she says
"Neil Hughes put your chair forward"

and she just gets into a
girly mood with me like that

Tell me about the period in your life when
you went to university and what happened

It was a very short period

I was only at university...

well I was only taking university seriously
for a matter of two or three months

maybe I went to the wrong university
or maybe university life didn't suit me

either way

I felt a very great need
to get out of the system

Well this is my final year so
I'm not in college that much

I don't have to be

so what I'm expected
to do is to be...

laying out revision
timetables at home and..

Working like a slave

which I'm not at the
moment, but I will be soon

I did make an
application to Oxford

but I didn't get in

and eh

well I think that's in the
past now and that's...

I don't know whether I would've
been any happier at Oxford

it always had been a
dream to get into Oxford

I think being as people
had encouraged me

because I knew famous
people having been to Oxford

I'd read memoirs written
by famous people

things such as Brideshead's Revisited
which was a great favourite

but these I suppose are

well they were dreams which
I had while I was at school and

I have to just get over the
fact that I didn't get into Oxford

probably because I didn't
approach the thing in the right way

Are you bitter about it?

I was very bitter at the time

maybe I still am but
I try to get over it

I think once I can get myself
going I can work solid, yeah

but it's the motive

which is very hard to acquire when
you're in the flat most of the time

it's hard to sort of look ahead to
next June and think of those exams

but I dare say I'll do it, get the
average type degree and...

I'm not worried

Is it a problem to you
motivating yourself generally?

Yeah it can be

I can look back on the day
and think "how I wasted that"

although I must've
enjoyed it at the time

What sort of influence did
your parents have on you?

Well they made me believe
in god from the start

which I certainly wouldn't

or I don't know even now
whether I believe in god or not

I've thought an awful
lot about it actually and

I still don't know

but still this was the
absolutely certain one

if one was to survive in the
world one had to believe in god

this was something
which was taught to me

always think of other
people first before yourself

to a ridiculous neurotic degree

which I think affected me

What do you mean by that?

Well this I suppose
is basic christianity

it's sort of...

if somebody slaps you on one cheek
let them do it on the other

almost literally taken

which gave me a few shocks
when I tried to put it into practise

- In what way?
- I don't think to be honest

to go back to that
question I don't think

I was really taught any sort of
policy of living at all by my parents

this was probably
their biggest mistake

that I was just left
to fend for myself

in a world which they seemed
completely oblivious of

and I found even when I tried to discuss
problems which were facing me in school

my parents didn't seem to be
aware of the nature of the problem

Were they ambitious for you?

Yeah but along set lines
which they had planned

I think they have often
said to me that they

they had seen me even from when I was
very young in a certain type of career

and possibly they'd never even thought
that anything else was vaguely possible

they probably imagined I would be

maybe a university lecturer or

a bank manager or
something like this

some kind of indoor work

which involved writing and
reading and this sort of thing

because they didn't take account
of the other side of my personality

but

I wonder how many parents really think of
their children as individual human beings

What are your feelings about
them now? Your parents

I'm glad they're there because
if I ever become homeless again

I will be able to go
back and live with them

they wouldn't object to this

I'm capable of getting on with
my parents perfectly well

If they are willing to let me live
as another adult in their house

and appreciate that I'm
living my own way of life

and that I am living there because I can't
think of anything else to do with myself

What do they think of
what you're doing now?

They accept it, I think now they
do accept that I'm the person I am

they see this as simply my attempting
to add more experience to my life

which satisfies me

Are they worried about you?

Probably yes

but no more worried now than they
were when I first left for university

that was probably the time at
which they were most worried

and we have in fact managed to
discuss a lot of personal things

which I felt at one time I'd
never be able to discuss

and therefore, as I say

it is possible for me to live for a
few weeks even a month or so at home

without there being
to much friction

So are you under
pressure to get a job

to think of what you're going
to do when you leave in June

Yeah I suspect I am from my
parents, they keep dropping hints

which is only fair I can
understand their feelings

obviously I've got to get a job

I don't want to laze around on
the dole for months and months

you'd go mad

I just can't see what I'll be
doing in nine, ten months time though

Does that depress you
or does that excite you?

No it certainly
doesn't depress me

perhaps it does excite
me in a way yes

something will turn up, something
of that nature y'know

but obviously you've got to think
realistically about doing something

I mean I might be living in
cloud cuckoo land y'know

my mum and dad
might say "no son"

"you don't get a job you like"

I'd like to think I could

Well, we pretend we've got swords

we make the noises of
the swords fighting

and when somebody stabs
us we go "Arrrrrgghhh!"

What goes through your mind
when you saw those two films

when you were at
seven, bright and perky?

I find it hard to believe that I was ever
like that but there's the evidence

I wonder why I was like that

I wonder what it was inside
me that made me like that

and I can see even at fourteen and
I was beginning to get more subdued

and I was putting a lot more
thought into what I was saying

too a ridiculous degree

and probably when I was
seven I just... I don't know

I lived in a wonderful world where
everything was sensation dumb

I could be happy like this I could
be miserable the next minute

and I didn't have
to plan for the future

I didn't have to worry about
having friends and all this money

because everything was
so mapped out for me

I don't know what sort of stumbling
blocks should be put in a child's way

to get him used to living
in the outside world

because I think maybe this is something
that was wrong in my upbringing

I didn't have enough obstacles to
get over, to toughen myself up against

I was unprepared for
things as they were

but looking back now I couldn't
think of what might have been done

and I certainly wouldn't start
writing educational theory about this

because I know how
personal a thing it is

and it probably wouldn't
work in anybody else's case

Would you like to
be seven again?

No because I'd know that I
had to be twenty-one again

I moved up to a
comprehensive school

I found it much bigger of course

I found it hard to
settle into at first

but now I've been here a few
years I know my way around

I think it's a very good
idea to have competition

otherwise you might start
to relax and not try hard enough

Yes at that age I was very
conscious of having to struggle

because I suppose of what
parents and teachers were saying

they were saying

they said "you've got a brain you
must put all your effort into school work"

well what else could
they have said?

I would've probably been
just as angry, looking back

if they'd never encouraged
my intellectual efforts at all

When I get married I don't
want to have any children

because

they are always
doing naughty things

and making the
whole house untidy

Do you have any
great ambition, any dream?

I suppose I...

yes well...

I would like to be someone in a position
of importance and I've always thought this

but I don't think I'm the right sort of person
to carry the responsibility for whatever it is

I've always thought
well I'd love to be

possibly even love
to be in politics

Something like this

but eh...

I suppose that I'd probably find just as
tedious as all the other jobs I've done so...

What do you want out of life?

The satisfaction of knowing

that I've left some sort of imprint

rather than just
lived out my life

I don't know...

it's going to sound like an epitaph
I've left in memory of some people y'know

not that this guy worked, made a fair
bit of money, good house, died

I'd like to have done
something but...

then again it must be a
drop in the ocean I suppose

I mean who is going to remember
me in a hundred years time?

So is it that important,
how you live out your life?

But I would like to think
I'm going to do something with it

something positive

Do you and Peter have
the same values?

I think we both value
happiness and stability

I think most people do

But you've kicked against
the stability that's..

I don't think I ever had any
stability, to be quite honest

I can't think of any time
in my life when I ever did

I don't think I've been
kicking against anything

I think I've been kicking in
mid-air the whole of my life

It's only one more

What do they think
about each other?

And how would they act together?

To find out we invited them
all to one big party and joined in

♪If I say that I love you♪

♪And you know it's true♪

♪If you said that you'd leave me♪

♪What would I do?♪

♪I'll let you back if you let me♪

♪I'll change your mind...♪

Yes but they were a bit
too tough for my liking

so they hit me right in the back
and I've still got a pain there

The posh ones,
"Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes!"

they're nuts

you just have to touch them

Well some of them
were rather dirty

- What do you think about them?
- I played with them quite naturally

I think they were
rather nice really

What do you think
about rich people?

Well... not much

Tell me about them

Well they think they can do
everything without you doing it as well

and they think just because they're rich they
have to have people to do all their work

What would you do if you had
lots of money, about two pounds?

Me? I would help the poor

What for?

The poor, if you don't help
them they die soon wouldn't they

and every time we have a harvest
festival we send food to them

and once these two...no

Susan and Janet Simpson went
round giving it out with Mr Floyd

- I don't think much of the accents
- Neither do I

Neither do I

it won't prevent me liking them

Don't you ever
think to yourself -

Jump out of that suit,
come to the Eastend

throw the books in the corner
and do what you have to do

- I'd certainly throw the books in the corner
- Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

Yeah

- What are you going to do in life?
- I've really no idea

The idea of just living somewhere and working
for a living is just horrifying really

I mean, being a
student is very easy

I just postponed the decision
by going to university

I wouldn't say being a student's
easy, that's why I left school

- It was too hard
- Really

Who is to say what a
seven year old child is?

I don't think there's anyway you can do it so a
seven year old child could seem to be one thing

and you could always argue that the end
product was produced by what he actually was

rather than what he seemed to be

- you'd normally use the total...
- Not a bookmaker but a...

- I'm always frightened they'd clear off
- What?

I'm always frightened they'd clear
off if they had a bad afternoon

No they're not like that,
they can always get hold of money

What fears do you
have for the future?

Well certainly the idea of,
as I was saying before

getting into a job and simply
getting stuck in it and that's it

without knowing
why you're doing it

but I would think now that this is the time
where I would think about something like that

and make sure it doesn't happen

I really don't see how
one's life can be a failure

in that...

if I became a journalist
and got sacked at thirty

probably because I had grown out of it or I
had changed so I was no longer suitable

therefore I'd find something
else which I enjoyed

and which my talents
were suited to

No I have never suffered at all

never been driven to
despair or tears or...

I don't know, have
any of the others?

My strength is being
able to keep going really

and my weakness is not being able
to take any positive course of action

I suppose I tend to behave in the
fashion of the people that I'm with

in some circumstances I think that
can be quite a weakness sometimes

sometimes wish I didn't

occasionally look at myself and think "christ
you're a bloody fool, what are you doing now?"

and that sometimes disturbs me

We had a teacher at school

that his favourite ploy was...

"All you girls want to do is walk
out, get married, have babies

and push a pram down the road with a cigarette
hanging out the side of your mouth"

god if there was ever a sentence
I'd resent it would be that one - yeah

There's only one ambition
really I want a baby son

if I see my baby son that'll
be my ambition fulfilled

no one knows that, only you now!

Well to me it is a dream
to be totally happy

I mean, I don't think
you can expect that but...

What happens if you don't make that? If you
don't ever find it? How will you cope?

I don't know, it
would be hard to say

the human minds very strong
and it can be very weak

and so you could crack up
from it and you could just

live your life out from day to day
and you could get over it I think

well not get over it but you'd
sort of cope with it I think

but what I'd do
I just don't know

I mean I want to be happy and
my dreams are all for happiness

but basically that's what
I want out of life

I always leave something inside
me, I always leave a bit behind

I always hold back a
bit with everything I do

just to sort of...something
to fall back on

I've always got something else to look
on if anything goes wrong anywhere

What is that something
you hold back?

I think it's a part of my heart

What do you want
most out of life?

To be happy and get on with life

you don't want to just sit
back and let it always pass

you could be run over
by a bus tomorrow

so you've got to make the
most of it while you've got it

Simply to be able to wake
up in the morning and feel that

this day was going
to be worthwhile

which is what I don't
feel at the moment

At the end of their very
special day in London

after their trip to
the zoo and the party

we took our children to
an adventure playground

where they could do
just what they liked

those from a children's home
set about building a house

The houses in Australia, the average
sort of living there will do me fine

I mean it's terrific

I often say I'm saving to
settle down with Yvonne

and then I think to myself "nah
I might buy a car instead"

There's Nicholas

You have to run fast
to stay where you are

to go forward you have to run very
fast indeed, or whatever the quote is

so I'll probably feel I'm
actually achieving nothing

and Tony

I don't want to change
because if I change

it proves the other Tony
Walker was all fake

Andrew

After I've qualified as a
Solicitor I'll have to rethink

I don't know at all what
will happen after that

and Bruce

It all springs from...

loving god and christ I suppose

you try and do that as best as possible
and that leads your actions in life

John

I'd quite like to go into politics but
that's easier said than done

Susie

When you're a child you always think
how nice it would be to be grown up

and independent and things

but there are times when
I wish I was three again

Jackie and her friends

give me a child
until he is seven

and I will give you the man

this has been a glimpse
of Britain's future