The DNA of Murder with Paul Holes (2019–…): Season 1, Episode 1 - Hotel Homicide - full transcript

September 12, 1980,

September 12, 1980,
Rose Burkert, 22,

and Roger Atkinson, 32,

arrive in the small farming
town of Williamsburg, Iowa

for a romantic
weekend getaway.

Rose is a single mom

working her way
through nursing school,

and Roger is a devoutly
religious man

from a large,
close-knit family.

Roger is a married man,
but Rose is not his wife.

At 7:40 p.m.
the lovers check in



to a near-sold-out
Holiday Inn.

The next afternoon
a maid enters room 260

and finds them
brutally murdered.

Were Roger and Rose killed
because of a lovers triangle,

or were they targeted
randomly by some stranger?

The crime scene is puzzling.

Roger's wallet
has been torn apart,

yet Rose's wallet is seemingly
untouched on the bed.

Oddly, a tube of toothpaste

has been squirted out
in the bathtub,

and two chairs
have been pulled up

next to the bed near where
Roger and Rose were found.

For nearly 40 years,

their families
have been living



with unanswered questions.

What was done
to Roger and Rose

and the horror
that they suffered

in the last moments
of their life,

nobody should ever experience
something like that.

By analyzing the crime scene
and those final moments

between Roger, Rose,
and the offender,

I will try and bring justice

to the families
of Roger and Rose.

[rock music]

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

I'm a retired cold case
investigator.

I spent 271/2 years
as a forensic scientist

and as
a cold case investigator,

oftentimes doing both jobs
at the same time.

I'm most known for helping
to solve

the Golden State Killer case.

The recognition from
the Golden State Killer case

is taking what I used to do
during the course of my career

and has expanded it
to where now I can do that

for law enforcement agencies
across the nation.

Even though I am retired,

I don't want to stop doing
this kind of work.

This is the type of work
that I'm good at.

This is the type of work
that is my passion.

When you have
these whodunit crimes,

it is the ultimate challenge.

It's the ultimate puzzle,

and when you hear the families
of Roger and Rose say,

"You're our last hope,"
that's what drives me.

- Mr. Holes.
- Hey, Sheriff. How's it going?

- Good to meet you.
- It's very nice to meet you.

- Welcome to Iowa County.
- Well, thank you very much.

I've reviewed the case files
and the evidence

from the double homicide
of Rose and Roger.

There's rage.
There's anger,

and that crime scene
reflects that emotion.

I'll be working with
Iowa County Sheriff's Office

and hopefully getting answers

for the families
of Roger and Rose.

So you're
the elected sheriff here?

- I am.
- Wow,

and you're still
involved in this case?

- Well, growing up in Amana,
I was 12 when it happened,

but it was something
that really shook up our town.

- Yeah.
- We have some more

recent murders
that we had to deal with,

and then as soon
as those were over

and we had those adjudicated,

we decided that this case
needed some attention again,

so we started
working on it 2013.

2015 we really started
to kinda pick up speed on it.

- Okay. You must have some
personal attachments

to this case at this point.

- Originally, when you're
reading these,

they're all just names.
- Mm-hmm.

- And then when we started
looking into it

and started meeting family
members,

it has become very, very real
for us now.

- Well, tell me a little bit
about Rose and Roger.

- Well, Roger's a married man,
and he is not married to Rose.

He was not happy
in his marriage.

He's actually having
an affair with Rose.

So when we look at motive,
of course,

that opens up a lot of doors

into who might not be
very happy about that.

- And he meets her because--
through his work?

- So Roger is a phone
installer, repair person.

- Okay.
- And so they actually meet

when he installs a phone
at her residence.

- Well, I think I was kinda
surprised-- Rose is young.

She's 22?

- Yeah.
- He's 32.

I mean, this is
a young couple.

- Yes.
- You know, so obviously,

I mean, 22 years old

and you lose your life
at that age,

you haven't
experienced life yet.

- And Rose has a little girl,

so there's
a two-year-old left behind.

- These are your true
innocent victims.

Roger and Rose went on a trip
together with the idea

that they're going
to have fun that weekend,

and at some point that night,

they end up
being brutally killed.

They did nothing.

There is that injustice.
I want to fix that.

- One of the interesting things
about this is there's actually

a convention
going on at the hotel.

- Oh.
- And it was sold out.

- What was the convention?

- It was an
undertakers convention.

- Undertakers?
- Yeah.

- So that just adds
a little bit of--

- Of all things.
- Yeah.

We know that at 7:40 p.m.,

Rose and Roger checked in
to the Holiday Inn.

Rose makes a phone call to
check on her daughter at 8:00,

but I think it's important
that when a phone call

from the babysitter
comes in at 8:30,

Rose doesn't answer,
even though

she wants to check
on her daughter.

So now my thought is,
is that maybe the offender

is in that room by the time
that phone call comes in.

- We actually got lucky,
and we do have some DNA

that cannot be identified

that could possibly
be our killer.

- Okay.
- It's at least my belief

that the person had the blood
of the victims on them.

They wipe the blood off
with the towel,

leaving their male DNA
mixed with the victim's.

- Okay.
And how did this crime go down?

What's your predominant theory?

- I think it all centers back

to who knew
where they were gonna be.

- Okay.
- We spent a lot of time

looking at all the suspects,

and it all comes down
to how did somebody know

they were gonna be there,
and how many people knew that?

- You're thinking they
were followed.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I think that's a very good,
strong possibility.

- I really believe that this is
a Missouri murder

that happened in Iowa.
- Okay.

- So all the players
are from Missouri.

All the relationships
are Missouri relationships.

- Yeah, so Rose and Roger
came up

out of St. Josephs, Missouri--
- That's right.

- Drove four hours north
to your jurisdiction,

and that's where
they got killed.

- Yes.
- But you believe--

it sounds
like your predominant theory

is that somebody that
they knew out of St. Josephs

may have come up and committed
this homicide.

- If someone is taking the time
to follow them to this hotel,

if it's a family member
or somebody that knows them

and they've built up that rage,

they've got the proof
they're looking for.

These two were together.

- I think it's obviously
a crime of passion.

Whoever did it is very upset
about the relationship

that Roger and Rose
were having.

You have to be connected
to these people somehow.

- What do you think is

going once
the offender is in the room?

- I think they were told
to lay on the bed

and be quiet
and everything's gonna be fine.

- Yeah, lay facedown
on the bed.

- And I think they-- and maybe
there's a gun displayed.

- Yeah.
- Nobody's just gonna

lay in the bed while
they're about to be murdered,

so I don't think they realized
they're about to be murdered.

- The door of room 260 does not
show any signs of forced entry,

so that possibly could suggest
that Rose and/or Roger

voluntarily opened
up the door to the offender.

Did they hear a voice
they recognized?

But on the other hand,
it's very easy for an offender

to get into a room
using a ruse,

knock on the door,
"Housekeeping."

And why are they laying
facedown

side-by-side on the bed?

It looks like they were
ordered to do that.

They're complying
with this offender.

Why aren't they fighting back?

Well, maybe they knew him,
and they go,

"Okay, he's upset.
He's hotheaded.

He'll leave once, you know,
he speaks his mind

or he gets
what he needs to get."

Do you see one or the other

being the offender's
primary target?

- I just tend to believe

that it's just
the relationship in general,

and so they're both
the intended target.

- To kill someone
is one thing, but to do it

so viciously seems like
almost a personal attack.

- So it's not a single gunshot
to the back of the head.

- Right, right.

- It's, you know,
multiple blows with a hatchet.

♪ ♪

Meeting Sheriff Rotter,
he gave me better insight

into Rose and Roger's lives.

Because of the rage
at the crime scene,

and the lovers' triangle,

I'm leaning towards
an interpersonal crime.

Somebody who knew Rose and/or
Roger came up and killed them.

And yet, there are aspects
of this crime scene

that don't add up.

♪ ♪

Hey, how's it going?
- I'm good. How are you?

- I'm doing great.

Yolanda McClary is a retired
crime scene investigator

out of Las Vegas Metro.

She's got years of experience

dealing with all sorts
of crime scenes.

She brings a level
of expertise to the table

to help me better understand

what happened
to Roger and Rose.

There's no signs
of forced entry.

The weather stripping--

- No signs of a real struggle.
- No signs of real struggle.

- Things aren't knocked over,
like lamps and tables,

where there's a real fight.

- No, though
it'll be interesting.

I do have some photos
that-- that kinda show

that the-- there
is aspects of disarray

in the room
that's more consistent

with the offender kinda
ransacking their stuff.

- If this is truly somebody
who was after them,

would they really ransack
all their stuff?

- Don't know.
You know,

the investigative
theories are broad.

You have a potential pool
of suspects,

Rose's side, Roger's side,

and then there's the random,

you know, person who happened
to just decide to target them

because interested
in their possessions

and wanted to eliminate them.

- It just seems like
an awful lot

to just want possessions
to murder two people like this.

- Yeah.
This is what fascinates me.

Rose's wallet
doesn't look like

it's really been dug into,
all her stuff is still there.

- Right.
- Whereas Roger's wallet,

it appears the guy is taking

every single item out of
Roger's wallet.

- Throwing it down--
- And throwing it on the floor.

The other real oddity
in this case

is we've got the toothpaste
squirted out in the bathtub.

And did the offender do this?
And if he did, why?

- Well, the whole thing, Paul,
is odd.

I mean, you've got a situation
that almost looks

like a burglary gone bad,
but this is really gone bad.

♪ ♪

- Do we have
a burglary gone bad

versus
a jealousy-motivated crime?

That's why it's so important

to go see the location
of that hotel

and room 260
to get a better sense

of did the offender
follow them there,

or did the offender
go to that hotel

knowing he could find victims,

and he just happened
to find Roger and Rose?

Driving on I-80--

I-80's this freeway
that goes all the way

from the west coast
to the east coast, you know?

- Right.

- So if we are dealing
with somebody

and this is a random crime,
then it's going to be somebody

who's probably very mobile
and very transient.

- I don't know how just
randomly they were chosen

that night, you know?
- Yeah.

- And it just seems odd,
but we'll know more about that

when we get there
and really see

are they literally
right next to the exit?

Well, sometimes, then, you are
the lucky chosen one.

- Right.

♪ ♪

- It's confidence.
- Mm-hmm.

- Do you think this is
his first time?

- And just to ask straight-up,
did you have anything to do

with Roger and Rose's murders?

They had another case.
- Wow.

- That becomes significant.
- Yes.

I think that the case
has taken a complete turn.

♪ ♪

- Rose and Roger were killed
in room 260 at a Holiday Inn

right off of I-80.

A huge question for me is
were Roger and Rose

targeted based on
who they were,

or was it where they were?

Is it an offender that was
upset about the affair,

or is the offender somebody
who's moving along

this major freeway
where the Holiday Inn is?

♪ ♪

- It is kinda creepy
that it looks

exactly like it did back then.

The only thing
that's changed is the cars

and the parking lot.

- What is the significance
of room 260?

Would the offender
have had to

walk in through
the front lobby

in order to get back
to room 260,

or was there another way

that he could've snuck into
the hotel without being seen?

Room 260, how far away
from here is that room?

- It's probably the room
furthest away

from the front desk
of any of them.

- Really?
- It's all the way in the back.

- So now, if-- if somebody
were trying to get to room 260

from the outside
of this building,

what direction
do they have to go

in order to get to that room?

- They would go down this hall,
take a-- follow it around,

go up the stairs
and down the hall.

- So if they're coming
through the front lobby door,

they'd go down this hallway--
- Correct.

- Then work their way back
to room 260.

- Correct.
- Can they get to room 260

from the other side,
from the outside?

- No, 'cause the doors were
all sealed up and locked.

- There's other ways
to get in,

but you would have needed
a key to get in those doors.

- Okay, and did all
hotel guests

have a key
to those side doors?

- They would have--
their room key

would've allowed them access
into that back door.

- Okay.
- Okay.

- So that's--

that's actually interesting.
- Mm-hmm.

- For the offender to enter
those locked doors,

he would had to have gone in

when a guest had actually
unlocked it,

so at this point, it appears
that it's very possible

he walked through
the front doors,

the open lobby,
and once inside,

you've got all these guys
at the undertaker conference.

The offender could just
be hiding in plain sight

because there are
so many people.

We know this little hallway
right here

before that stairwell, this is
where our offender had to be.

He came to this door at 260,
and he left,

but then he has
sort of a choice to make,

go left or go straight,

and we don't know
which way he did.

- Nobody's gonna hear
you out there...

- Right.

- ...because you're on
an outside wall,

so the only person really

to maybe hear anything
would be room 262.

- This is almost the perfect
location, right here,

because it's only
two rooms side by side versus

when you get down

to that-- to rooms
down that hallway--

- Yeah, you've got someone
on each side.

- Somebody on each side.
- Mm-hmm.

- So that almost shows
that there could be

a purposeful selection
for this location.

♪ ♪

Oh, there's the bathroom.

- I actually would have thought

this would have been
a lot smaller.

- Right. I'm probably standing
roughly-- you know,

right in this area is where
that chair was, you know,

and there's a thought that
the offender sat in that chair

as he's taking out Roger's,
you know, articles.

- Mm-hmm.
- So he's--

he's literally,
you know--40 years ago

he's, you know,
sitting in this space.

There's something
going through his mind

as he's doing this action
right here.

There's an emotional
kind of intrigue as

I'm trying to go back in time.
What happened 40 years ago?

What did this space
look like 40 years ago?

Somebody else
was in this very space,

and they were taking a life,
and I just wish

I could just grab out
of the ether, you know,

that visual of what happened
and who that person was.

- You can perfectly see right
to this parking lot, too.

- Yeah.

- You don't have
any other view,

but it's right there,
that back parking lot.

- You could be in
that parking lot

and see there's lights on
in the room

and knowing that it's occupied.
- Mm-hmm.

- The location of room 260
supports the idea

that this could be
a random crime.

It's ideally situated to
carry out this type of attack.

I now start to lean
to the possibility

that we have
a random crime occurring,

but I can't eliminate the idea

that this could still
be interpersonal.

♪ ♪

One of the primary reasons
people end up getting killed

is because of the relationships
they get involved with,

these lovers' triangles.

When that jealous
rage kicks in,

even if they've had
no criminal history,

no signs of violence before,
they see red.

So if this offender
knew Roger or Rose,

who potentially would have
a personal inner rage

that might compel that person
to drive 41/2 hours

up to Iowa County
to kill Rose and Roger?

♪ ♪

- Hi. Tammy?
- So now,

how did you first meet Rose?

- In high school.
- In high school?

- Yeah, but we really
became close friends

when we shared
an apartment together

and worked at the same place.

- Oh, okay.
- She found out

she was pregnant
with her daughter,

and so the whole time
she was pregnant,

we shared
the apartment together,

and she was really excited
to be a mom,

and, you know, she knew
she was gonna be doing it

by herself at that point, so.

- So the father didn't come
around after the baby

was born at all?
- No,

not that I'm ever aware of, no.

- Did they just split up?
- Yes.

- Did she ever mention
that she was dating Roger?

- No.
No, she didn't,

and I didn't know
anything about Roger

until the murders happened.

I don't know
how Roger really felt,

but I believe Rose thought
he really was in love with her

and was gonna, you know,
be with her

because she wasn't the type
to just go off

and-- with a married man.
She wasn't like that.

- Yeah.
- Unless she thought, you know,

his marriage wasn't gonna last
and he was gonna be with her.

- Now, just before her homicide

she had been engaged,
is that right,

or was at least dating somebody
who wanted to marry her.

- Yes.

- What was this
individual's name?

- His first name was Danny.

- Do you know much about
that relationship?

- She just broke it off
with him,

and I know for a long time
he didn't leave her alone.

You know, he still tried to--

- What would he do?
- To see her.

Well, there was notes
that was left on her car,

you know,
threatening notes, and--

- Do you remember
what they said specifically?

- Just that she wasn't just
gonna walk away.

- She's now told him
she doesn't

wanna be in a relationship.
- Right.

- And so he's still coming.
- Yes.

- What else was he doing?

- Well, there was a friend
of his that had

a big brown van,

and they used to sit down
the road from her house

and just watch her.

I guess it was just stalking.

- More intimidating?

Do you know
if they ever followed?

- I think they followed her
a few times,

but I-- they never really
actually did anything to her.

I think they just tried
to scare her just because

she was just
not gonna get back with him,

and he didn't like that.

That's who I thought
was involved

from the very beginning of this
because she had went-- like,

two or three weeks
before she got killed,

she had went to the sheriff's
office in Savannah

and told them
if something happened to her,

that it would be
her ex-boyfriend that did it.

♪ ♪

- It's important to realize

that we have
two victims killed,

but who is the primary target?

One side is Rose

and what interpersonal
relationships she had,

but then on the other side

is Roger and his
interpersonal relationships.

- Hi.
- How's it going?

Yolanda. Nice to meet you.
Thank you for coming.

♪ ♪

- For me, you know,
I want to know

about Roger
to start off with, you know?

So you're his brother.

- Oldest.
- Oldest?

- I was the oldest of seven.
Roger was the third one down.

He and I shared the same
very small room, bedroom.

It was a room that was--
used to be the porch,

and my dad boxed it in

'cause he had more kids
and needed more room.

- He was a very mellow, mild,
sensitive young man.

I knew his-- he was in trouble
with his marriage,

and I knew he wasn't happy,

but he stayed
in the relationship

and made other choices,
which was not smart.

- Do you think Roger would have
asked Marcella for a divorce?

- Oh, yeah,
but he couldn't get it

because every time he tried
to talk to Marcella,

she would open the Bible
and point out to him--

and he's very religious--
how this is wrong.

You don't do this.

- So she-- she has
a strong personality.

- Very much.
- Oh, she's very dominating.

You could talk
to anybody about that.

- Yeah.
- She's just overbearing.

- So did you guys
ever know about Rose?

- No.
- No, never did.

- We were shocked, and--
- Family didn't know either?

- Mm-mm.

- Well-- well, now,
his sister did--

- Because--

- And never told us.
We were never--

- Because Rita, my sister,
was married-- or

was married to Mike Hale.

Mike Hale is the one that got
Roger the telephone job.

A lot of the phone guys, they
were just all over the place,

and Roger was caught up in it.

- Encouraged.
- Caught up in-- in what?

- In--

- Their relationships
that they had.

- Fooling around.
- Okay.

So Roger's getting into this,
this telephone business,

and then you've already got
sort of an established culture.

- Okay.
- We kinda, through the years,

have homed in on Mike,
because I think

Mike's connection
or motivation was Rose.

The company guys knew Rose.

- Do you think one of them
had an affair with Rose

at some other point in time?
- I-- yeah.

- It's possible.
- We think so.

- Do you think Mike
is responsible

for Rose and Roger's death?

- Mike had all the information,
what Roger was gonna do

and where he was gonna be,

and I think he passed enough
of the information to Marcella,

and Marcella--

- And her dad, I think.
- I'm sure went to her dad.

Her dad was a hothead.

- And this is Floyd?
- Yes.

- Floyd Hatcher.
- Okay.

Do you think Marcella
is potentially the one

that wanted
to see Roger killed?

Tell me how you think
this all plays out.

- I think Floyd Hatcher
was in that room.

Whether he swung the axe
or whatever they used,

I don't know.

At least two people

because I know
there was two chairs

beside Roger's side
of the bed.

Like somebody wanted
to sit down

and talk to him, okay?
Marcella's a Bible-thumper.

- Okay.

- Was she sitting there
reading to him?

- Because of the strong
emotional aspects of Marcella

finding out about Roger
having an affair,

could she be so in a rage
to have gotten somebody

to go kill Roger and also Rose?

These types
of family dynamics exist.

- We know he made a mistake.
- You know, but I think

it's also important
that even though there

are certain lifestyle choices
that were made,

I mean, it does not
come down to Roger's fault

of what happened to them.

♪ ♪

- It's been a hard long years.
- Yes, it has.

- Yeah.
- The hardest thing in my life

I ever did was

make that phone
call to my folks in Tucson.

- Yeah.
- It's a hard thing

to tell your parent
that they lost a child.

- Especially knowing
what we found out.

- Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

- Right. That was tough.
- Yeah, I know, but, you know,

I really appreciate-- I know
this is all very tough,

and you guys want an answer.
You know, my hope is that

I'm able to help the sheriff's
office get your answer.

- This, we think,
is our last chance.

♪ ♪

- When you're dealing with
lovers' triangles,

the scorned spouse is going
to be the first person

that law enforcement
is going to focus in on.

This is why speaking
with Roger's widow, Marcella,

is critical.

Did Roger's widow, Marcella,

know about the affair
prior to the murders?

Jealousy often is motive
to commit murder.

- Hi.
- Hi, Marcella?

- Yes.
- Yolanda.

Nice to meet you.
- Nice to meet you, Yolanda.

- Hi, I'm Paul.
- Hi, Paul. Nice to meet you.

- Nice to meet you.
- Come on in

and try to get out of the heat.

- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.

- Marcella, you know,
of course

we're here to talk to you
about Roger.

And, you know, I know
it's been almost 40 years.

So tell me about
how did you two meet.

- Well, we met at church
in the youth fellowship.

He seemed to be
going the circuit of dating

the different girls
in the group,

and when he got to me,
I said, "That's it."

[laughter]

- What was the relationship
like in those--

in maybe
the final couple years?

Did you sense any troubles
with him at all?

- You know, I just didn't feel
he was himself.

- You end up finding out
he's-- he was killed.

- Yes.

- Did the detectives tell you
all the details

about the whole situation
of what was going on, or--

- They said, "Do you know
Rose Burkert?"

and I said, "No.
Like, who's Rose?"

and then they told me
that she was found with him,

so it's like, oh, you know--

- And that was a--
that was a shock?

- Yeah. You're upset
because you've had a loss,

but then you're upset
because you've been betrayed.

- Did you talk to his family
at all afterwards?

- Not a whole lot.
I just kinda felt like

I was the black sheep
of the family

after he got killed
because his mom,

you know, blamed me for
if I'd have been a better wife

and all of that,
that it wouldn't have happened,

and, you know, I just told her
I don't buy that.

- Tell me about your dad.
Tell me about Floyd.

- I feel like he was
a good dad to me.

He was an alcoholic,
and that made me sad

during my childhood.

Wasn't abusive,

but it's just living with
an alcoholic's just not fun.

- Did your dad have a temper?
- I think so, yeah.

- How was he after finding out
about Roger being killed

in terms of-- did he make
any statements about Roger?

- No. I just felt Dad
acted a little odd.

When we went to go see the body
for the first time, he said,

"Now, don't cry,"

and I thought, "Don't cry?
I mean, why shouldn't I cry?

I've been through
a horrible ordeal right now,"

And-- but I didn't.

He said, "Don't cry,"
and I didn't.

I think that's what
kinda made me wonder

then could he have
done something?

Because I thought
he was telling me,

"Don't-- don't cry because
I don't want to see you cry

because that's gonna hurt me,"
maybe.

I don't know.
That's just what I thought.

- Do you today have any
suspicions about your dad

being involved
with Rose and Roger's murder?

- Yeah, I still do.

I feel like
I was betrayed by Roger,

and then if it was my dad,
what was he thinking?

Was he thinking
he was doing me a favor?

'Cause it really wasn't.

- And just to ask straight-up,

did you have anything to do
with Roger and Rose's murders?

- No.
- No reason to, right?

You know, all possible leads
are on the table right now,

so as we take a look
at the evidence--

- At 67, I'd just like to have
some answers,

and if any of my family
had something to do with it,

it is painful.

- Because of the rage displayed
at the crime scene,

a jealous wife finding out
about her husband

having an affair
does make sense,

but we have male DNA.

That's where I think
it's more likely,

if Marcella is involved,
she had somebody do it.

♪ ♪

- After talking to people
in Rose and Roger's lives,

there are multiple people that
had motive

to have them killed,

but the fact that Rose
has more wounds,

she has 12 to Roger's seven,

makes me think that
she may have been the target.

In a replica crime scene in
a room identical to room 260,

Yolanda and I are going to
analyze the offender's actions

to determine who exactly
was the intended target.

What I'd like to start
is the actual act of homicide.

We've got Rose on the left.
You can see the--

kind of the orientation
of this bladed weapon

striking the back of her head.

- And that's kind
of interesting on his too,

linear lines going this way.

If that's the case,

then my strikes are certainly
not coming down like this.

They're gonna be coming down
more like this.

- The blade of the hatchet
is vertical with the handle.

- Right.

- Yes, so that helps position
where the offender is standing

at the time he's striking.

Could he kill both victims
standing in one location

if she's facedown

and she's got those injuries
to that right shoulder?

That's closer to--
- That's pretty close.

I'm not that big of a person,

yet where I'm at,
I can reach over.

- And the orientation
is just like

the back of Roger's head,
right?

- This way.
Then you've got the hand.

I think after
the first initial strike,

what does your body
automatically do?

What does your hands do? Go up
to where you feel this pain.

- And then he ends up getting

several
strikes to his right hand.

- He bring-- I think that-- both

because he gets
both of his hands,

and you can see
where they're being hit.

- So kind of-- kind of
that shielding posture.

- She is struck several
more times than him.

- Yes, and so does that--

does that reflect more emotions
towards her?

She's the-- she's
the lesser threat.

- Of course.
- Why is he having

to strike her more?

But I'm also wondering if he's
standing closer to Roger,

he may be feeling
that he's being more effective

because he's now within
his reach, right? Easier.

- Right, he's getting
more on him.

- Versus having to reach over.

- So he's striking her more,
just making sure.

- And his strikes may not be
as forceful.

The initial emotions that
I thought that the offender

was expressing towards
Rose really wasn't there.

Now it appears that
that is a matter of mechanics

because the offender is not
as effective with the hatchet

stretching over the bed,

and he's not delivering
as powerful blows to Rose,

so the offender is now
having to inflict more blows

to neutralize and kill Rose.

Now he's, like,
in a dominant position,

and she is basically helpless
as this weapon

is now coming down on her.

- She can't--
- Those are the last moments

of her life right there.

I'm now seeing
how the offender,

he's positioning himself
by Roger.

This is a Roger-centric crime.
I believe Rose was ancillary.

Roger is the one that the
offender's most interested in.

- You've got someone, then,
who is definitely-- gets

a sense of command presence,

okay, in what he does.
He's confident.

- Mm-hmm.

- Do you think this is
his first time?

- No.
- No.

- I don't, not with
what I'm seeing here,

because this is where he's now

effectively killed these--
- Two people.

- Two people, Rose and Roger.

They're lying, now dead,
facedown in this bed.

- Mm-hmm.

- But now he pulls a chair
and sitting here.

- So casually.
- Yeah, has Roger's wallet,

just kinda looking at it,
flipping it down on the floor.

I've just taken control
of who you are.

For me, this ends up
becoming so critical

in terms of getting into
the mindset of the offender.

He's done this before.
- Mm-hmm.

- And imagine these items here.
- Mm-hmm.

- He's comfortable.
He's throwing these items out.

What he's doing at this point,
if they're dead,

he basically is playing God.

He is now,
"I've just taken your life.

I made the decision that you
two are going to die tonight."

- Mm-hmm.
- "And I did that,

and now I can do

anything I want
to your items in this room."

This idea of playing God is not
something that is common.

It's usually a select type
of offender that does this.

This makes me think

it's not somebody
in Rose's or Roger's life,

like Marcella's father
or Rose's ex-boyfriend.

The offender, after he has
created bleeding injuries

and probably after
they're dead,

it does appear
he goes into the bathroom.

- Cleans up.
- Cleans up,

and then for whatever reason,
while in the bathroom,

we now have toothpaste being
squirted out into the tub.

- Mm-hmm.

- I'm dealing with
an experienced offender

who is Roger-centric.

I'm still puzzled
about the toothpaste.

Did the offender do that?

I've never had toothpaste
squeezed out

in a single case
that I've worked,

and now I've got this going on.

Is he doing this as part
of his crime scene ritual?

The toothpaste.
- Mm-hmm.

- Which would have been
squirted down in the tub here,

you know,
so you can kinda start to see,

you know,
what he's doing in here,

but the question is why
is he doing that?

♪ ♪

- We got all the evidence
gathered up from the case,

and I've got it assembled here.

It's basically everything
that was left behind

in the motel room.

- I like to evaluate
the physical evidence

after I get a good working
knowledge of the crime scene.

This allows me to put
those items into context

of what happened between
the offender and the victims

during the commission
of the crime.

Those items speak to me more
once I know what has happened.

- Got it.
- A lot of stuff here,

everything that would have been
in the room

at the time of the murder,
all kinds of personal items.

- I'm really interested in
seeing the items of evidence

that you've recently done
some work on as well as,

you know, the items that
the offender had touched,

if possible.

Now that I think I'm dealing
with an experienced offender,

looking at the evidence
will give me insight

into the signature behaviors

of what the offender is doing
within that crime scene,

and that insight
could give me clues into

who I think
the offender might be.

- So this is what we would've
sent to the lab in 2015

to have examined
for bloodstains,

and I think they went through
all those cards

to look for latent
fingerprints, as well.

- Oh, is that the one
that's up on the bed?

- Well, it almost looks like
the one that's on the bed.

- Yeah.
- I think it is.

- And all those-- at least

from what I can recall
at that picture,

all those contents
were actually in that wallet,

but at the same time
with Roger's wallet,

that offender's interacting
with those items,

and he's-- I mean,
he's tearing up a photo,

and he's crumpling
something else,

so there appears to be
an emotional aspect

as he's going through
Roger's stuff,

and I thought it was
curious with her

in that she's obviously
facedown on the bed

when she's receiving those--
those fatal injuries

to the back of her head,
but she's been turned over.

- Yes, and not only that.

She was more meticulously
covered up.

Roger was what appeared to be
just sort of left as he was.

- Yeah.
- She seems to be

a little bit more covered up,
as if the killer

had at least some respect
that this is a lady here,

and she deserves
to be covered up.

- Yeah, and sometimes
when you see that covering up,

that's when the offender
is showing an association

to that victim,
some remorse of what he's done.

I've seen cases in which
the male is eliminated,

you know, and the female's
killed horrifically,

but then the offender
afterwards

is now-- can't stand
to see what he's done.

Like the Golden State Killer
case,

after the sexual assaults,

sometimes he would wander
around the house sobbing,

saying,
"You stupid piece of s--- ,"

as if he's beating himself up
over what he's done.

It's an interesting psychology.

Oftentimes, it's out
of a sense of remorse.

He's now not liking
that he's done it.

- So here's the infamous
toothpaste.

- Oh, that's one of what
I wanted to see.

- So we are-- we're dealing with

the old-fashioned
metallic tube,

which lends itself
to crushing pretty well.

I don't think it looks
like anyone did anything

nefarious to it.

I think it is just the way
a crushed tube would look like.

- It's basically been squeezed.
- We paid special attention

trying to find touch DNA
on the cap,

thinking that that surface
would lend itself well.

It did not.

- Yeah, you know,
you read the description

that the original investigators
are say--

and how it ap--
it was like it had

angrily been
just smashed with a fist.

That's not what
that looks like.

- I think it looks like it was
squeezed just like this,

as you can see
the indentations here.

Just as you see it in the-- in
the bathtub squeezed out.

I think that's exactly
the movement

you would have made to do that.

- I see the tube of toothpaste,
but it's not

in this crushed condition
as described in the case file.

It just looks like
it has been squeezed

just like any normal tube
of toothpaste,

and I've got concerns
about whether or not

it's really important evidence
in Rose and Roger's case.

Okay, no, that was
extremely valuable to see.

That gives me
a different perspective

on what's going on
with that tube.

♪ ♪

I'm constantly having to go
back to the case files,

looking for new
investigative leads.

Now that I'm leaning towards
I'm dealing

with a more experienced
offender,

information that seemed
insignificant before

can now become very critical

as I learn more information

about the case
I'm digging into.

In the case file
with Roger and Rose,

I saw the mention
of another case

that occurred 130 miles away
ten weeks prior,

and it was a homicide in
a hotel right off the freeway.

♪ ♪

You know, this is kinda
getting interesting.

I was going through
the case file,

they happened
to mention another case,

and so I reached out
to the agency, Galesburg PD,

and I think
you need to see this.

- All right.
- So we have William Kyle,

a 28-year-old
traveling salesman.

He is staying at a hotel

in Galesburg in room 217.

- Okay.
- That's a hotel that is

directly off the freeway.
It's about 130 miles away

from where Rose
and Roger were killed.

- Okay.

- And it occurred about
ten weeks prior.

The murder weapon--

- Look at that.
- Is a hatchet.

- Mm-hmm.
- I've never, 27 years,

had a case that involved
a hatchet or an axe.

- I've had a couple,

but they were far
and in between. You're right.

- Yes. The victim's over the
bed, but he has been covered.

- He's facedown, too.
- He's facedown,

but he also has
that shielding--

he has injuries
from the weapon--

- On his hands, too.
- His hands.

And look at the chair.

Look at what's on the floor
directly in front of the chair.

This is his wallet.
- Mm-hmm.

- Look at what the offender
has done.

- Throwing all the cards
and everything out again.

- Just like Roger's, in dishev.
- Mm-hmm.

- This offender is sitting in
that chair going through...

- And throwing
everything out, too.

- ...William's wallet and
throwing it down on the floor.

But this is what catches me.
That's a toothpaste tube.

- Oh, my goodness,
I couldn't tell from the photo,

but yes,
it is, toothpaste again.

- And in this case toothpaste
was also squirted.

- That's bizarre.

- And it's unique enough
to where

I think
it's the same offender.

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

- With what I am seeing
in the William Kyle case,

just because
I'm seeing similarities

in crime scene photos,
that's not enough.

Do I have overlap between
the William Kyle homicide

and Roger and Rose's case?

I want to see just how similar
these two crime scenes are.

This may be the work
of the same killer.

♪ ♪

This is actually room 217,
where the...

- Room 217.

- ...the homicide
actually occurred, right?

- Yes.

- So Bob, you were one--
the original

investigator on this case?
- Yes, I was.

This is where
we found Mr. Kyle.

Legs were off
the top of the bed.

Upper torso was still fully
extended out onto the bed.

He had been covered by a
comforter that was on the bed.

- Okay, and then we know based
on the crime scene photos

there was a ton of blood
spatter up on the headboard.

- Up on the headboard and up
on the ceiling.

- Okay, and so it appears
that he's up on the bed

and receiving blows
to the back of his head,

but he's not covered
at that time

with all that blood spatter.
- Correct,

because there was still
a pillow up there

on the bed that--
you could see the imprint

or the impression
of Mr. Kyle's head,

where it had been pushed
into the pillow

and then drug backwards.

- And the large blood pool
where his head used to be.

- Yes.

- We know that William was
sitting over there working,

but now his wallet
has been opened up,

and every single item

has just been tossed
down onto the floor.

- Yes, almost to appear
as if it had been a robbery.

- Right.

- The person who we later
suspected

was more or less homeless.

- And this is-- this is Esparza,
right?

- Esparza.

- Raymundo Esparza, yeah.
- Yup.

- The records that
Raymundo Esparza died in 1983.

Esparza turned out
to be a drifter

that was initially contacted
at railroad tracks

by railroad security.

Galesburg PD officer responds,
picks Esparza up,

and drops him off
right at the interchange

where William Kyle's hotel
was at.

He had a bag on him
with a bunch of tools in it.

Could his tools have been the
source of the murder weapon?

Galesburg PD actually built a
compelling circumstantial case

against Raymundo Esparza.
It's surprising to me

that they were not able to get
a DA willing to charge Esparza.

Tell me about
how Esparza became

came to the attention
of your department.

- Three people had identified
as being here

at the hotel that night.

- And you interviewed him,
right?

- I interviewed him
for 12 hours.

- And what was he like?

- He cried. He laughed.

I went-- took him back
to his childhood,

to when he was five years old.

Folks used to chain him
to a post in the basement

because they had to work,

and they didn't want him out
on the street running around.

I would get him to the point

where I thought he was ready
to talk to me,

and then it just-- it's just
like he turned a switch off,

and he didn't know
what I was talking about.

- Tom, you ended up
taking over this case.

- I took it over in 2009.

We opened the case back up
to see what we could do

because of the update
in DNA analysis,

which we didn't have in 1980
when the crime occurred.

We submitted some fingernail
case and clippers

to the lab,
which were found in the room

because Mrs. Kyle stated
that was not her husband's.

- And at that point
they didn't get anything?

- No.

- And then on the floor-- and
this is really-- really

caught my attention,
was a tube of toothpaste.

- Yes.
- Some of the--

the actual paste
had been squirted out?

Is that true?
- Yes, yes.

- Over by the victim?
- Over by the victim.

I later consulted
a psychiatrist.

Given Mr. Esparza's history
of being a heroin addict,

some heroin addicts,

that's about the only way
they can satisfy themselves.

- Okay.

- Mr. Esparza maybe was...

using the toothpaste--

- Like-- like a lubricant
for masturbation?

- It'd be more of
a ejaculation simulation

for the heroin addict.

- Oh, so okay. I've never heard
of such a thing.

- That's the only-- only way

they can achieve
sexual gratification.

- You say the toothpaste
is over there.

He may have stood over there

and squirted
the toothpaste out.

If he's doing that
to simulate ejaculation,

he's sexually getting off on
what he's just done to William.

In my 27 years, I've never had
toothpaste squeezed out

in any homicide scene,
yet now I've got two cases

in which toothpaste
has been squeezed out.

This is a unique
offender behavior,

so it's something that I put
a lot of weight on

as I assess the relationship
between the William Kyle case

and the homicides
of Roger and Rose.

William being killed
facedown in his bed

with something akin
to your-- a hatchet.

- Right.
- With Rose and Roger,

they're both facedown,

killed with a-- probably
a hatchet-like weapon

in a hotel
next to the freeway,

immediately adjacent
to the freeway.

- Right.
- In addition,

there's also a chair
that's been pulled out,

and the offender has taken
the male victim,

Roger's, wallet and has removed
every single item

and thrown it down
on the floor.

- Did we have the toothpaste?
- We had the toothpaste,

and that's where now,
in that case,

there was toothpaste that had
been squeezed out into the tub.

I've worked a lot of cases,
and I have not seen

such a stack
of similar activities

that the offender has done.

To-- to my mind,
it's absolutely compelling

that the same offender
that killed William Kyle

is who killed Rose and Roger.

♪ ♪

- In Rose and Roger's case,
you've got families

pointing fingers
at each other

over decades as to which side
of the family

was responsible
for the homicide.

That has got to be such an
anguishing time in their lives.

- How are you?
- Doing great. Paul Holes.

If I show that no,
you know what?

Your families weren't involved
in this case, Roger and Rose

were just in the wrong place
at the wrong time

and the wrong guy
happened to go to that hotel,

it at least
gives them an answer,

and maybe they are able

to live more peacefully
amongst themselves.

- Galesburg, a fairly
small community,

we don't have
many homicides here,

and we have very few
unsolved homicides,

and this is only one of two
that I'm aware of

in the last 40 years, so.

- Yeah?
- Yup.

- Now-- now, what exactly
do you have out-- out here?

- Well, this is part
of-- just part

of what we would consider
our evidence

that was collected
back in 1980.

- And I'm seeing what appears
to be,

you know, relatively fresh tape
seals on some of the items,

so it looks like you've had
some recent forensic work done.

- That's correct.
I believe at about 2009

this case kinda
got reopened for us.

- Do you have offender DNA?

- From the scene, they have not
been able to find any.

- Okay.
- My suspicion would be that

there may be something in these
boxes that does contain it,

but what that is and if
there's enough there to test--

- My hope is to determine
what items of evidence

are likely
to give me offender DNA

and compare that DNA
to the unknown male DNA

from the Rose and Roger
homicide case

and see if
I can make a DNA link.

White towels from bathroom,
room 217 at the Sheraton Inn.

- Right.
- So it's been ten years

since any DNA testing
had been attempted on that.

- That would be correct.
- Okay, so that-- to me,

this is a--
this is a priority item

as far as I'm concerned
for further DNA testing.

Now, the other interesting item
in your case

is this old fingernail
clipper kit.

- That's correct.
- You know, the owner

of the fingernail
clipping set,

if they're digging into their
fingernails all the time,

it would be
a great source of DNA.

- Yes, and when we submitted
the items in 2009,

there was not enough
to formulate a DNA match.

- 2009, of course,
DNA technology

had progressed considerably,

but since 2009 it's taken
another step forward.

- There's still that--
that idea

that there could still be DNA
in those fingernail clippers.

- Yeah.
Seeing if we can get DNA,

I mean, I think the towels
are a priority item

'cause it-- in all likelihood
your offender touched that.

The fingernail clipping set
and that case, you know,

that would be
a priority item at this point,

and possibly
that toothpaste tube.

You know, I haven't seen a
real good close-up photo of it,

but to consider the possibility
of maybe contact DNA

if the offender
is squeezing that.

In the William Kyle case,
what stands out

is the fingernail clipper kit

that the offender likely
dropped at the crime scene,

the tube of toothpaste that
the offender likely touched

and squeezed toothpaste
out of and the towel

that the offender
used to clean up

after he killed William Kyle.

The offender's DNA could be
on any of those items.

And because of the advances
in DNA technology,

I just need a small sample
to possibly get a match.

- They had developed
a suspect on the case.

- And this is Esparza?
- Yes.

They were looking real heavily
at him as a potential suspect.

I actually found
it really interesting

that we have Esparza's time
in Louisiana

and the Mississippi area,
which I think there's also

an open-- or an unsolved
or open case from Meridian.

I had never seen the photos
from the Meridian case.

- So this says
"Meridian, Mississippi case."

- Mm-hmm.

- "Murder at Travel Inn Motel,
room 412,

23-year-old white male
named Jack McDonald."

Bludgeoned,
and he has wounds all over.

Victim's wallet missing,

including a small amount
of cash and credit cards.

Oh, wow.

I mean, that--
that looks identical

to how William Kyle was left.

- He's placed.

- Just based on
the positioning of the body,

he is-- he is being bludgeoned
to death in a hotel bed.

You can see the blood spatter
up on the headboards.

This is identical to what
we see in William's case.

- In the Kyle case, yeah.
- Yeah.

These are identical-looking
crime scenes.

This just-- just doesn't
happen by accident.

If this guy's going into hotels
across the nation,

it's very possible

that there's additional cases
that are just like this

that law enforcement
has never linked together.

- This was the first time
I got to see

the photos from Meridian.
- Yeah.

- When you pulled it out there,
I'm like,

"Well, wait a minute.
Is that-- " or I had to double--

I had to take a double-take
'cause I'm like,

"Wait, no, those aren't
photos from Meridian.

That's our hotel room."

- Between Rose and Roger's
case,

the Jack McDonald case
in Meridian, Mississippi

in 1970,
and the William Kyle case,

I believe you have
the same offender.

Galesburg PD found out
from Meridian investigators

that toothpaste had been
squeezed out into the toilet

in their 1970
Jack McDonald case.

I now have three cases
involving hatchet murders

in hotel rooms

involving toothpaste
being squirted out.

This is starting to become
compelling

that we have
a serial killer

that's been going around
the nation killing

in a very unusual manner,
in a very brutal manner.

♪ ♪

- I am now convinced that
I have a serial killer

that is responsible
for the homicides of Rose,

Roger, William Kyle,
and Jack McDonald,

and now it's time to get
law enforcement on board.

You know, after reading
the case file, you know,

my predominant theory was this
is interpersonal, you know?

Somebody on Rose's or Roger's
side of the families.

- Yeah, the statistics bear

that it's usually someone
that the victim knows.

- So as I was reading
Rose and Roger's case file,

I became aware
of this Galesburg case

that I know you're familiar
with, William Kyle.

- The fact that it happened in
a motel along an interstate

was compelling,

but we have a male
and a female here

and then a lone male,
and so I think

there were just differences
enough that it was discounted.

- Predatory crimes are rare,
and it's very understandable

that the similarities
between the William Kyle case

and Roger and Rose's case
would not set off alarms

to the Iowa County Sheriff's
investigators.

They haven't dealt with
these types of cases before.

When I got the case file
from Galesburg

and the crime scene photos,

aspects about Rose
and Roger's case

started to add up
with what I was seeing--

a hatched being used in
a hotel right off the freeway,

the chairs being pulled out

and the man's wallet
absolutely dissected,

and then finally
that toothpaste,

and taking a look
at their files,

they had another case
contained within there.

- Okay.
- And this was the 1970 case,

homicide of Jack McDonald
in Meridian, Mississippi.

It was stunning.
As you can see right here,

on the left-hand side
you have William Kyle.

Right-hand side
you have Jack McDonald,

and in the McDonald case,

there's toothpaste
squirted out.

- Wow.
- That becomes significant.

- Yes.
- I am seeing

the same offender killing Jack
McDonald in 1970 in Mississippi

that killed William Kyle
in 1980 in Galesburg,

and I believe the same offender

is also involved
in Rose and Roger's case.

It appears that we have
a serial killer

that has been targeting males.

During their investigation
of William Kyle,

the developed Raymundo Esparza
as a suspect.

The original Galesburg
investigator told me

something I had
never heard before.

He ends up reaching out
to a forensic psychiatrist,

and the psychiatrist keyed in
on the toothpaste

that had been squeezed out
on the floor

next to William Kyle's body

and said he sees that
with heroin addicts.

- Really?

- Heroin addicts develop
erectile dysfunction,

and so they will squeeze
toothpaste out

as a form
of ejaculation simulation.

- Hmm.
- That matches Esparza

because he is a heroin addict,

and that's why getting
a DNA sample from Esparza

is going to be something that

is a step
that needs to be done.

Esparza died in 1983,

and he is buried
in Los Angeles County.

I believe getting
an exhumation order,

that would be the step
that I would prefer,

is to exhume him.
- Yeah.

Well, I have the prosecutor
waiting to help us, so--

- Awesome.
- That should not be a problem.

When you bring in Mississippi
and you look at those photos

and those crime scene photos,

you can no longer
disregard that,

and so I think that the case
has taken a complete turn

as far as I'm concerned.

I think what was once discarded

as a slight comparison
in crime scenes

is now a pretty--
pretty major lift

to think
that they're not related.

I'm more hopeful
of solving the case today

than I was before.

It isn't the suspects

that have always
been thought of,

that it is somebody
outside the family,

and the connection
between this case

and the other two cases
we're looking at now really,

really hits that idea home.

- I don't think Roger or Rose's
families

are involved in their case.

- No, what I-- what
you've shown me today

just gives me completely
new hope for the case

because really,

I still got family members
from both victims

that are counting on us
to solve this,

and I think
we're getting close.

- Even though this is
a 40-year-old case,

basically, family members
are still wanting an answer.

- Yes.

♪ ♪

- It's natural for families
to think,

you know, because Roger
and Rose were having an affair,

that's why they ended up
being killed,

but I want the families
of Roger and Rose

to understand where I'm at,

and I do not believe
this is an interpersonal crime.

I want these families to stop
pointing fingers at each other.

♪ ♪

Thanks for your willingness
to meet with us again.

You know, we're-- we've been
working the case.

You know, we have some updates
for you, you know,

and I'm sure you're gonna have
some questions,

you know, of us.

- Have you interviewed
Marcella?

- We have interviewed Marcella.

- Okay. She's very clever.
- But I know, you know,

over the decades, of course,
there's been a lot of suspicion

within the families that have
all been affected by this,

and even though I don't want
to close down

any investigative angle
on those avenues,

based on the assessment
that I'm seeing right now,

it appears that we have
multiple cases

that were committed
by the same offender.

♪ ♪

- It appears that we have
multiple cases

that were committed
by the same offender.

- Are we familiar

with the cases of who--
who you're--

- So these cases have been
looked at before.

There's a very strong suspect

that we need to obtain DNA from
and compare to the DNA

that is present
within the Iowa case.

- Okay, what other progress?
- What we're doing

is we're doing additional DNA
testing from the other cases.

- Additional, okay.
- Additional testing.

- From that-- their cases.
- In order to determine whether

or not we have the same DNA
showing up,

which, of course,
would be very strong.

It's not just going to be
something that's closed out

based on,
"This is what we think."

We want to take it to where
we prove this is the case.

- So even though it wasn't

who we thought
it could have matched,

if it matches anybody,

that would be good.
- Yes.

- Key word, anybody.
Exactly right.

- That's right.

- Oftentimes who we think
is not necessarily

who it will ever come back to.

- I think I kinda felt
almost disappointed

that, you know, I'm sure of who
it-- who it is or who they are,

and for it then to end up being
a complete different stranger,

that just-- it really
blows my mind.

So this may be

a serial-type killer?

- That's right.
- Okay.

He just simply made a mistake,

and the mistake led to this.

We're proud of him.

Hope he's had a chance to sit--

sit down with God...

and have a good talk.

♪ ♪

- From the thought that
we have a serial killer

that killed Jack McDonald,
William Kyle,

you know, Rose and Roger--
- Mm-hmm.

- This-- this is where--
now going and meeting Marcella,

just kinda letting her know,

you know,
all three cases are related,

which pretty much eliminates,

you know, a family member,
relative

on either side
of Rose's or Roger's families

as being responsible.

To at least be able
to give Marcella

that bit of information--
- Yeah.

- You know, that could give her
maybe some peace of mind.

- So basically, we have
some good news,

and then unfortunately,

say there's still a little bit
more work that has to be done.

- Yeah, and my fear is--
is that, you know,

this-- this revelation without,
you know, the solid proof,

they're always going to have
that question

in the back of their mind.

♪ ♪

So Marcella, as promised,
you know, I'd come back

and give you an update

with what I can possibly
tell you at this point in time.

There is an ongoing forensic
testing being done,

and it's very possible
that that could give you

a conclusive answer
as to who did this.

I can tell you
at this point in time,

after digging into this case,

I am entirely confident
that your father,

Floyd Hatcher, had nothing to
do with Roger and Rose's death.

♪ ♪

- That's a really big relief
if you're telling me

my dad didn't do it.

- And at this point in time,
I am telling you that.

- It's a really big
relief, really.

Has this all been a dream
or a nightmare?

And it's like, I've waited
so long and wanted to know

if it was my dad or not.

It's a gift to know
that my dad didn't do it.

- There is the possibility
that-- and I think

it's a very good possibility

that there are other cases
that could be related.

- So that's-- would give us
one suspect

for those three cases,

so it kind of takes everybody
else out of the picture

that has possibly been
in this picture for years.

- It's still a suspect.

This is not somebody that
we can arrest at this moment.

We need to do further testing,

and it's going
to take some time.

- But you think we're really
close?

- We are close, absolutely.

- I don't know if Roger and I
would have patched things up,

amended
our marriage or not.

That I don't know, but I wasn't
given that opportunity.

Somebody took
that decision away.

May I hug you and thank you?

♪ ♪

Thank you.

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

- For more information about
"The DNA of Murder,"