Welfare (1975) - full transcript
WELFARE shows the nature and complexity of the welfare system in sequences illustrating the staggering diversity of problems that constitute welfare: housing, unemployment, divorce, medical and psychiatric problems, abandoned and abused children, and the elderly. These issues are presented in a context where welfare workers as well as clients struggle to cope with and interpret the laws and regulations that govern their work and life.
- Okay.
Okay, that's it.
You can have a seat, okay?
Okay, just have a seat.
Okay, Mr. Hamilton, just have a seat.
Hold your head straight, dear.
Okay, have a seat.
Okay sir, just have a seat.
Okay.
Have a seat.
- Have a seat.
- Okay, just have a seat, please.
Okay, have a seat.
Mr. Wills, would you mind removing your hat, please?
Okay, fine.
Okay, have a seat, please.
- 3A.
- Alexander Coswell.
- 4C.
- Indian people here don't like here, you know?
I'm gonna fight you for Oklahoma, you know.
Don't wanna give you nothing because I'm a Indian.
What's happened to the Indian people, you know?
What's happened?
You don't good, not good?
I'm a human being like anybody,
like a white or black or something like that.
I'm human, I'm a human, you understand?
They don't want to help you, you know,
they don't want me helping.
'Cause I'm an Indian people, you know?
I see too many Indian people in this country, you know,
in New York.
You got in Washington, you know?
I take it all from there,
because in there like camp,
a concentration camp.
You taken all my land, you know,
and push me on a reservation like a jail.
You know?
And now he don't dig it too much.
He don't dig it.
The government, they don't like the Indian people.
You understand?
It preys on the Indian people, you know?
Every time I go he say, you Indian?
Get outta here!
I don't want you Indian...
That's not good.
You know that is not good.
Because you know if you suppose I'm a human being, you know?
Like you, like any people, you know.
Yes ma'am.
- I called 39 Broadway.
- Okay ma'am.
- So far as we know, they have made no provisions
to issue ID cards to their claimants.
- Right, that's right, thank you.
- But on the other hand, welfare cannot give you one either
because you're not on our rolls.
The best thing for you to do when you get your check
is go to a check cashing place
or maybe a landlord will cash it.
Keep going to SSI until they come up with some ID
so that you'll be able to cash your check.
But sir, sir, we cannot give it to you,
because your checks don't come from us.
Your check does not come from us,
so we cannot give you an ID card.
You go in with an ID card from one department
and you get your check from another department,
it's not gonna help you.
- I know, but I need the picture for change my check.
- No, I'm sorry, they won't give it to you.
You have to get it from them...
- Yeah, listen man.
You know, I just go in yesterday
and you know, walk in because I ain't got no money.
I walk in all the way up from Broadway
and I explain my situation.
He said they don't give you a Medicaid card there
and he don't give you ID card there, you know?
He said go to 40th Street,
maybe you can solution your case.
I need help.
- Nevertheless, this is a problem
that you have to take up with them,
Waverly's no longer responsible.
- But what can I do now for check my check?
- You've got your check, you have your check in your pocket?
- You know, I just tried it, you know.
To get the picture because...
- I explained to you several times
that we cannot give it to you, I'm sorry.
- Right, I know.
You know, so my check come, and the check come in...
- Take it to a check cashing place.
- Yes, but I ain't got no ID card, you don't give it to me,
good lady.
- Keep going to 39 Broadway and tell them
you're having difficulty cashing your check
and you need some kind of ID.
- I just said I tell him yesterday,
tell him I supposed to get a picture, because you know,
he don't give it to me, he don't want to give it to me.
- I'm sorry, Waverly can't either,
Waverly's not responsible.
- So I supposed...
You lose my ear.
- Oh, thank you.
- Yeah, so you know, what I can do now?
Explain the situation again?
Okay, thank you very much, young lady.
- So you were out of the apartment in November?
- That's right.
- November 28th.
- Novembers 28th, and then you went...
Over here it says you went to the halfway house
December 27th, that's a month later.
- Yeah.
- Okay...
- We were staying...
- No what's she's saying is what did you do
from November 28th to...
- December 27th, where were you?
- Well, I was in and out of jail.
It was like one day at a time,
like they would, you know...
- It says you were only in jail for one day.
- I know that, but previous to that too,
you know, like it was, they just...
We went into restaurants
and we were just eating and not paying our bill
because we didn't have any money.
So they picked us up, you know, like on that,
and we'd spend the night in jail or something,
and then they released us out into the street again.
- And we were staying in...
We were staying with a friend of mine.
- When you worked for the department,
you know, you were making good money.
- That's right.
Like I stayed in each position for about a year
or a year and half, I kept taking service exams.
That's how I got promoted.
I started as a grade three
and then I went to supervising clerk,
then I became.
- See we haven't...
- It's been a year, two years,.
- We haven't got your accounts, right?
We just got the letter from the bank saying that
your accounts are closed.
- He lost the passbook.
- No no, wait a minute, wait.
And then you're telling me that you only these amounts
in each account, but you were making relatively good money,
I can't understand how...
- $198 in rent was one item, okay?
- I know, I know.
- And what about for food?
We had to spend on food.
- That's right, we spent money on entertainment.
- What kinda entertainment?
- Movies.
- Movies.
- Drinking.
You know what I mean?
- How come you've never worked?
- I'm an epileptic and I can't work.
- Okay.
- We had to pay electric, yeah, and so on.
- Have you got a medical...
- I don't have any medical because my doctor...
- You have Medicaid, that's the only thing.
- Medicaid is the only thing I have.
- Are you under any medication?
- No, I don't take any medication
because the doctor told me I don't need it,
it's just that I gotta take it easy and relax
and I'm not allowed to work, I wish I could, I would work.
- They gave us the Medicaid because we, you know,
we are in a situation.
- That's right.
- Well the reason I'm asking you all these questions.
- Yeah.
- It's true you're an emergency,
so we are giving you the emergency interview.
But every aspect of your application has to be gotten into.
Okay?
Okay.
I'm surprised you asked that
being that you were a supervisor in social services.
You should know.
- Well, you know, sure, but at the moment
I'm thinking in terms of answering your questions
and of you know...
- Did you ever get social security under your fathers?
- My father I don't know, because my father is in the army
and I haven't seen him since I was six years old.
- I see.
Where's your mother?
- My mother's on Pellum Parkway,
she gave me a little money and then she told me
to go hang myself or commit suicide
and every time I contact her she hangs up the phone.
The counselor at the rehabilitation center tried
and she claimed she doesn't know me,
he tried, my sister tried,
I got money from my sister, a little bit,
and then forget it, she didn't help me
and neither did my mother,
my mother doesn't want any part of me.
I've tried calling her every single time
and she hangs up the phone,
or "go hang yourself" or "sleep in a jail."
That's why I can't get any response.
My sister's out in Stony Point,
I asked if I could stay up with her,
I can't because she works.
Her husband...
- If we could stay with relatives we would be glad to do so.
- We sure would.
I've tried my aunt who lives on 14th Street
and my grandfather's got cataracts
and he needs to stay in the house,
so I can't ask her for help.
- Did you both apply for the SSI?
- Yes we have.
- Yes, we both have.
- You both went down?
Now you're just living together, you're not married.
- No, no.
If I knew where my husband was
I wouldn't even be around here.
I don't know where he is, I haven't seen him.
I have a partial disability on my hand, I'm cerebral palsic.
I used to wear a brace.
I am epileptic too, I used to take Dilatin,
but the doctor took me off of it.
- You're legally married?
- Yes I am.
I don't know where my husband is.
- Did you ever go to court?
- No.
- Are you divorced?
- No I'm not.
- That's family court I think she's talking about.
- You know, your husband might be working,
making a very good salary.
Now he's legally responsible for you.
- Oh, I know that, don't you think if I knew where he was
I'd be going to him?
I don't know where he is.
The last time I seen him was in the summertime.
- The summer?
- That's right.
And it was late at night.
I usually would see him at night, very quick.
And he was always with me, right Larry?
You know, when you were with your wife.
Right?
- Do you have any cigarettes ma'am?
May I?
- No he sometimes, because his wife
was working in the welfare, and we'd been looking...
- You're married also?
- That's right.
- Yes ma'am.
- I know it sounds complicated.
- Did you put down that you're married?
Is your wife working?
- Is she working?
I don't know where she is.
I don't have a wife.
What do you mean telling her I have a wife for?
- Didn't you say that he has a wife?
- I thought he had a wife.
- She's my wife.
- I don't know what I'm saying.
I don't know.
Forgive me.
I don't know.
I'm sorry Larry, okay?
I don't know, I really don't know.
- Are you married or aren't you?
- To her?
No.
- Not to her.
Are you married to someone else?
- No.
- So what gave her the impression
that you were?
- Maybe it's a wish that she had, I don't know.
- Maybe it could be a wish, I don't know.
- It's hard to say.
- I haven't eaten in a couple of days
and I'm hungry and you know, I get a little excited.
So I'm sorry Larry, okay?
- I don't feel too hot either.
You know, my system is all...
- I need some food in me and sleep, I haven't slept.
- Aches in every part of me.
- All right, this is for the housing.
- Where do we bring that?
- This is on the fifth floor.
Now you have to go...
After that you have to go to employment, okay?
- Yes.
- Okay.
So...
- Have we been accepted?
- She said she's gonna house us.
- If we're gonna house you that means that
- Okay, thank you miss, I just want to be reassured,
thank you.
And then we've gotta eat because we're starving.
- So could you please go up to the housing first?
- Where's that, what floor?
- On the fifth floor, and this is on the fourth floor,
the employment is on the fourth.
- Go up there now and then we come back to you?
- Yes.
- Go to the third floor,
up to the replacement group.
The third floor.
Anna, tell her to go up to the third floor
to the replacement group.
- Okay, next?
- Who's next?
- Go on up there.
- Why are you here, dear?
- I wanted to.
- Did you get part of a check?
How much of the check did you get?
- I get 66.
66.
- How much are you supposed to get, dear?
- 115.
15.
- What do you got, one or two cats?
- I don't know, I think one.
- Who's next?
Come on people, let's move down.
Drop that in the box.
Have a seat and wait for them to call your name.
Who's next?
Come on people, move down please.
- I'm gonna drop over dead,
and they do it while I'm sleeping, they're dope addicts.
They took everything, they took all my Medicaid
and my Social Security, they took it all.
- Quick service group on the third floor.
- Okay, and here it tells you about
the supplemental security income
to the aged, blind, and disabled.
Now if you already, wait a second,
do you already recieve social security disability payments?
- Yes.
Well, I don't know, the supplemental bit,
you know, the increase or something like that?
Whatever it's supposed to be.
- Do you get money from social security?
- That's what I'm told,
see my stuff comes from the Holy Name Society,
8 East Bleaker Street.
- Oh, and...
- I get so much per day to get a room or whatever I can.
- But you get that money
from social security.
- They told me $84.50.
Now whatever it is that
- What I'm asking you
is do the people at the Holy Name, that's where you live?
- I don't live there, I just, I have to live wherever I can.
- Okay, so you'll have to go to 39 Broadway.
I want you to go back to wherever it is you stay
or wherever it is they get your papers
and show them this and tell them that we said
that you had to go to 39 Broadway, right,
that's your social security office, okay?
Because you qualify for social security, not for here.
- You have to go to Holy Name and talk to them.
- That's right.
- Yeah, show them this
and be sure they understand what we said.
- Yes.
- And then they'll direct you to 39 Broadway, okay?
- All right.
And that's before I can get on the welfare or whatever...
- They'll take care of you there.
- Yes,?
- At 39 Broadway.
- Oh.
- 39 Broadway, that's where you gotta go.
Go 39 Broadway, downtown.
- 39 Broadway.
- Yes, okay?
- Yes.
- Who's next?
Is there a next?
Want to move down?
- You got a check from social security for $100 on Friday,
and today's three days later.
- They sent me back here.
- Who sent you?
- From social security.
- You got a $100 from social security administration
on Friday.
- They sent me down here...
- Wait, Mr. Long.
Did you get a check for $100 on Friday from social security?
- $40.
- And you'll be getting...
- Two weeks, and then I had
$60 Friday for food.
- And what happened to the $60?
- For food and...
- What happened to the $60 you had on Friday?
You're covered by the federal social security program,
you're not covered by local welfare center.
- Well social security...
- You got $60 from...
- Social security and welfare
were having an argument on Friday.
- Mr. Long, if you got $60 of food money on Friday
you're expected to put it to last for a little while.
Of the $2800 you blew in two months...
- I had to pay my doctor bill, I had to pay my doctor bill.
- You should apply for Medicaid.
- I had to pay my doctor bill.
- Mr. Long, if you got $60
from social security on Friday,
you're not gonna get any money today.
- Yes, I paid my...
- The money was for food and...
- Then give me it and I'll go back to social security...
- Who's next?
Come on people, please move down.
- Miss Slompo.
You must bring us...
How many months pregnant are you?
- Five.
- You must bring us a letter from a hospital.
The doctor can write anything that he wants to.
In order qualify for public assistance,
you must bring a verification letter from a hospital.
Are you attending any clinic?
- No.
- Why not?
- I have no money.
- That is not a requirement, that's not a requisite
for you to go to a public clinic.
Go there and tell them that you don't have money,
and then they will fill out this form for you.
- All this says is verification of pregnancy.
- This is not what we want.
We wanted a doctor, there's a certain form,
if you go to a city hospital, they'll give it to you.
Now, you realize that a doctor can write
anything that he wishes, sometimes...
- Oh, yeah but, five people have seen this letter.
- Elaine, are you taking this
for verification of pregnancy?
- Yeah, there's an EGC date on it.
Signed by a doctor.
- So that, you'll take that
instead of the form from the hospital, right?
- Yeah, it's just a private doctor.
- All right, okay, it's accepted.
- Indicates to me that she may be using a loose term
broadly, very broadly.
It may not be detrimental to her.
The hospital note tends...
The letter from the hospital indicates
that there were apparently extenuating social circumstances.
It may be a question of lousy conditions.
Now the format is first a home visit according to Kay,
within 48 hours, second are phone calls
to both central agency and SSC,
and then the...
On the first sheet you'll see a nine...
I think it's a 492.
These forms, I have them there, I'll give them to you.
They have to be processed within 48 hours
of the phone calls.
- You haven't answered my question.
- What's that?
- BCW already knows about it, why do we have to notify BCW?
- Just to get a clarification on it.
Just to see exactly...
Her description of it leaves a lot open.
She describes it broadly as a child neglect or abuse.
The woman is accusing herself,
I'm pretty sure you'll find that she's using the term
without quite understanding what it means.
- Zimmerman, we're gonna take the child off the budget
because it's not with you at the moment,
and if you get the child back you let us know about it,
okay?
- Okay.
She'll be back as soon as I get another apartment,
and see that's the problem right now.
- How long have you lived in this apartment?
- About nine months.
But like there's rats and a gas leak and...
- The central registry,
they're the ones who took the complaint.
Now I don't know who made the complaint,
I think it was the hospital, woman's infirmary.
Said that you have some diseased pets in the house?
- Yes, one dog is diseased.
It's not my dog though, and it doesn't live there.
- Yes, but you can't let the child near the dog,
it doesn't matter that it's not your dog,
the dog is in the apartment,
and that has nothing to do with...
Even though the conditions of your apartment are bad
and probably you'll be able to move,
it's still a diseased dog
and they're not gonna let the child back
as long as you've got a diseased pet in there.
- No, it's not there all the time,
it's there once in a while.
It's my boyfriend's dog and he doesn't live there.
- But it only has to be there for a little while
for the child to catch something.
That's why the doctors I don't think
are going to let you have it back
until you get rid of the dog for good.
So you tell your boyfriend to come and pick it up, okay?
- Okay.
- But anyway, somebody will be visiting your house
in the future, so clean it up.
- All right.
Do you know about when?
I put in a complaint about three weeks ago
with building inspector, no one ever came,
and at housing I got a real runaround,
and nobody knew nothing about it.
It's like they say that there's no record of violations.
- No, somebody will help you.
You need a lawyer to help you with that,
you can't do it yourself.
So I'll give you the phone number of this lawyer
that works for the mobilization for you.
- Okay.
- Because you know, you don't...
- Okay.
- Here's her number, or else you can go in person
and tell her your problems.
- See I don't know why the building inspector won't come.
- They take a couple of months to come.
They're understaffed, et cetera, et cetera.
They won't come...
When I had to wait for building inspector for myself
it was a year and a half, so don't count on that.
That's why you have to go to somebody who's legal.
That way they can help you do it a lot faster.
- See because like the case worker says
that they don't want to move me
because there's no record of any violations,
and I can't live there for...
- That's why you have to put in
the violations and then you will be able to move.
You see you have to say yes, there are violations.
- I have to go to a lawyer?
Okay.
- Okay, so you have her number.
So that's okay, you can go home now.
- Okay, thank you very much.
- You had a fire, and the emergency card in August.
And you settled the emergency because you resolved it,
because you lived with your friend.
Now there are new circumstances,
now if you want to...
If you want to correct the situation
by having a new apartment,
you must make a fair hearing.
This is your only course.
You can't solve it in the...
- I don't think this is fair.
- We can't solve it in the center,
they won't give you this money.
- I don't think this is fair at all.
Something has got to be done somewhere,
because it will continue...
- Why are you so reluctant about asking for a fair hearing?
- I'm not reluctant about asking for a fair...
I am reluctant to a certain extent.
The reason why is because it's gonna take
a longer period of time.
- How do you know it's gonna take
a longer period of time?
- It takes at least three weeks for a fair hearing,
does it not?
- Yeah, but how long...
- Meanwhile my friends is moved out and where am I?
- Your friend hasn't moved out yet, has he?
- He's moving his things...
- When is he moving?
- He's in the process of moving his things.
- When is he moving?
- All things will be out within the next two days.
And I have responsibilities also.
- By the way, are you enrolled
in a rep program or any of the programs?
- Yes, I am.
- You're enrolled right now in some...
- The rep program.
- When do you start?
- Well the guy's been sending me out...
They sent me to the unemployment section,
and now the guy's been sending me out to different jobs,
and he told me to call him this week
so he could send me somewhere else.
- Are you ever enrolled in a narcotic program?
- Yes I was, I was a drug addict at one time,
but when I came out I started working
and I've got my own apartment
and from there started building on my own two feet,
and then from there I bought a dog, a great dane,
that I had responsibilities toward her.
Now I'm... being at the fire, I only had the dog left.
It's me and the dog and I had lost my job,
and y'all said y'all would give me some kind of help,
and it hasn't been done yet.
And that is another reason why
the hotel wouldn't be suitable.
I would have to get my own apartment.
- Because of the dog you mean.
- Right, because I have a dog too.
- I think there's only one course for you.
And you can go to the state and make a fair hearing,
and we'll be over there with our records, what?
- What happens meanwhile, when the guy moves out?
- He hasn't moved out yet, right?
He's still living there.
- Not completely, but within the next two days,
it takes three weeks for a fair hearing.
What do I do during that time?
- Nothing that we can do, unless you come...
You want to live in a hotel meanwhile.
- Are they gonna let me take my dog?
I'll live there.
Y'all give me furniture, clothes money...
- We're not giving assistance for your dog.
- I know, I know.
- We're concerned about you, right?
- Between the dog, me and my friend work it out.
We'll work it out between me and the dog.
- And you know the dog can stay with your friend.
- It's my dog, but I don't know.
I don't know if he wants the dog to stay, I'm not sure.
That I would have to work out with him.
Like I said, I might be able to work out
a furniture situation with him,
and the dog, I don't know.
But the fact that I came down here
was because I was told that I would have a place to go
which is an apartment,
and that is where I could take my dog and live
and work for a living.
- Where is your friend moving to?
- He's moving on the west side.
- You telling me you can't stay over with your friend?
- He told me it's too small,
the apartment is too small.
- For a day or two?
- He has his woman.
His woman is with him too.
And all along I still...
- Let me ask you, if this woman lives with him too,
you know is he still living in your apartment?
- At my apartment?
- Well he's living with you.
If this woman lives with him.
Lives with him in the present.
- Right, and he's moving some of his things,
he's in the midst of moving some of his things
to the west side.
He hasn't moved everything yet.
- But you just stated
that the woman is living with him.
- Right.
At his apartment.
- And you're living with this man.
- Uh-huh.
- So the woman is living with him,
and with you also, you're living in the same apartment.
- Right, there's three of us, plus a dog.
- Now there are three of you plus a dog.
- Right, but it's his home.
It's not mine.
It's his home.
- It gets more involved as we go along.
- It's the man's home, it's not mine.
- Now you have a dog and you have a woman and you have...
- I don't have no woman, no no.
- He has the woman.
- Well what goes on with him is not my concern.
He just lets me...
I rent part of the apartment to sleep there.
I sleep there and do what I have to do.
- Listen, do me a favor, make the fair hearing
at 488650.
- Still, I'm being rejected again.
It's still a runaround.
Thank you for your help.
- Okay.
- Not allowed to pay back due money.
You should come in on the time...
- Well the damn hearing kept me there.
I don't want to hear that.
I don't want to hear that shit at all.
You didn't feed me, he fed me.
You're supposed to send those checks.
I'm single issue, you never sent them.
You never sent them.
- You're supposed to come in for single issue checks.
We are not supposed to send you money.
- They were sent before single issue always
without a fucking problem, but now there's a problem.
- You don't have to use that kind of language.
- Well can I have today's food money, then?
- You can't have today's food money.
- Why not?
- Your date is due tomorrow.
We according to dates, I told you that already.
The best thing I can do for you
is the rent money from before that you didn't pick up,
I can give you your rent money for the 1st to the 31st.
I'll give you an appointment for tomorrow
to come in and get your food money.
- And I'll still have to stand out there
6:00 tomorrow morning.
- No, you won't have to,
because I'll give you an appointment.
- Will I still have you tomorrow?
- There's a little problem here.
Did you apply after January 1 or before?
- Before.
- You had no active case here before January 1?
- No.
- If that is true, then we can accept you for 30 days.
Until the social security department gets around
to accepting you.
- All right, well the girl...
- You have a letter from them?
- Yes, I showed it to the girl.
I don't have any of my papers with me now,
but I showed you know the interviewer downstairs
like you know, my reaction report,
I showed her the referral slip from SSI, and...
- You have that with you now?
- No, I don't have it with me now.
- Okay, all right.
- But I been coming back here every day for two weeks.
Like she says get a notarized letter for this,
a notarized letter for that.
- That's the application group.
- Yes.
- The application.
- Yes, yes.
- And so now you're here in housing,
so you must've had a referral from them to housing, right?
- Yes, because they said they only give out $160.
- That's a lot of money for rent.
- $160.
- $170.
- Yeah, they say they only give out $160.
My rent is $170, all right?
- That's difficult.
You live alone?
- Yes.
I went to the landlord, right?
The landlord is out of town, he's in Aruba,
but his attorneys here on the case gave me a letter
saying that they will deduct $10
for some burglar alarm system.
She rejected that.
So she told me if I get a letter from my mother,
a certified letter from my mother,
saying that my mother would give me the $10 a month,
I would be accepted, all right?
I got the certified letter from my mother saying...
- They can't tell you anything but...
- Saying that she will give me $10 a month
to make up the $10 different,
and she rejects that and sends me up here.
- So they told you you are not eligible.
- She's told me she's giving me the food and money
and all that other garbage, you know,
but she wants me to relocate instamatically.
She just wants me to move somewhere.
- Your case is accepted, though.
- Yes.
- You know upstairs, there aren't two people
that do it the same way?
- There aren't?
- If you're gonna need an interpreter
I'll have to go find someone.
- No no no, hold it.
If I get my check today,
which I think I will, they owe me two checks.
You could...
Come on, I don't do that, come on.
- You want to go with me?
- I just got out of the hospital.
- Okay.
What were you in the hospital for?
- I got a operation.
- Mrs. Johnson.
- I was put in a hotel for a week,
and my check was supposed to come there
between the first and the third.
It didn't come, the man gave me two days
and put me out the hotel.
- Mrs. Johnson, according to this,
social security gave you a check on the 6th of January?
- For food money.
- How much did they give you?
- $100 food money until...
And saying my check will be there in 10 days,
it's been 14 days, I meet the mailman every morning,
no check comes.
I can't pay no rent and I'm supposed to be in a hotel,
but I didn't.
And they ain't even had me listed,
they told me that I wasn't even on the roll.
- Were you receiving assistance here before,
Mrs. Johnson?
- Yes I was.
- May I see your Medicaid card?
- This a new one they gave me
and they done put the wrong date on that,
I got to get that changed.
- Excuse me, excuse me.
- They aren't supposed to be issued for a month.
- How long were you on assistance in this office
before you were sent to the social security?
- Since March.
- Since March of...
- This year, last year.
- 1973, yes.
And your case was transferred from this office to security?
- Disabled, because I'm disabled.
- She claims she's been on assistance here since March.
She was living...
She has a rent receipt from the Hotel Marquez dated 1/2/74.
- Mhmm.
- So apparently it's a conversion,
but here they have her as...
Can you make this out here?
- SSI beneficiary.
- Which means that she was a conversion.
- It means that she was a conversion, yeah.
- For them to give her $100,
she obviously is a conversion.
- Is a conversion.
- Nothing we can do.
- Either that or they would've assumed in error
that she was, and it doesn't seem like it,
since she's been in a state of assistance since March.
- But I don't understand they're saying needs home relief.
- Well apparently they just are hoping that she can get
some help here or wanted to get rid of her, either one.
Because...
- I was wondering if they were inferring
that her eligibility had been denied for assistance,
but they wouldn't...
- Did she give us a phone number?
No, they never give us phone numbers to call.
- Now she's at the Hotel Vasquez.
- Oh, yeah, well she'll have to get through
the change of address with them,
and we cannot help her here.
It looks as if she's a conversion case.
- She is a conversion case obviously, yes.
Well I'll in form her of this, okay?
Mrs. Johnson, once a case has been transferred or converted
to social security by this office,
we are not able to make any address changes
that occur in January.
You must wait until they mail you a check, Mrs. Johnson,
because social security already gave you $100
for your January...
- Food money.
Food money for 10 days.
- Yes, until the other check arrives,
they are responsible for any checks
issued you in January, Mrs. Johnson.
- That's what they're saying, but they're saying
y'all's welfare have to make out my budget
and I'll bring it over there to them
and then they will take over from there.
- How much rent were you paying here, Mrs. Johnson?
- I was paying $140 a month.
- $140 a month?
- Yeah, and the hotel, it's gonna cost...
- Well if you were getting...
Do you have cooking facilities at your...
- $47 food cooking facilities,
but the hotel don't have none.
- And the rent there was $140?
- $140 a month.
- That means it's $70, $70 monthly.
In other words, we were...
Your budget, the budget you were receiving from us,
was $117...
- Yes, two weeks.
- Every two weeks, correct.
Now the social security budget will be $214 a month.
You understand that?
- Yes, but I ain't got no check from them.
- But they gave you $100 advance.
- Yeah.
- Toward your food check.
- That was food money.
- Right, now they will send you a check
at your address here.
- Then been supposed to send it.
It wasn't even on the roll,
but now they're gonna have to put me in the hotel
because I'm getting put out of this here place.
- And they are responsible
for the address change...
- And they want...
- I'm gonna give you a letter
and I want you to go there right away
so they can make an address change for you, Mrs. Johnson.
I'm terribly sorry-
- The man said they don't make no changes.
You could call 'em, I don't have money to be
ripping and running in that rain,
I just got out of the hospital from an operation,
a serious operation.
- Well I'll tell you, with the new social security budget,
there is no increase in rent, there are no provisions made
for any increase in rent.
You are to live on a flat grant.
Not to exceed no more than $206.85 a month,
regardless of how much rent you pay.
You will get one grant, do you understand that Miss Johnson?
Whether you pay $50 a month or $150 a month rent.
- $160 a month rent.
- The fact is that social security
does not increase or decrease your budget like we used to.
- No, they say you will figure out
how much my budget will be in the hotel,
and they will house it from there.
- But we cannot change any budgets
after January 1st, Mrs. Johnson.
So the person may have been mistaken.
- Well I was being put in the hotel before January 1st.
- Actually your case is probably at 39 Broadway.
They sent you to the other office because
they were too crowded.
- I called 39 Broadway, she said...
She said that...
- It'll be the end of next month
before I receive any kind of rent money or food money,
and I'll be put out by then.
I didn't record it to social service.
I returned my rent money here.
- I'm calling 39 Broadway now
to see if they could find it, okay?
Valerie Johnson for me, please?
The social security number 437-58-3867.
She was referred to us again for a change of address
I understand effective January
that we are not responsible for any address changes
or budget changes, rather.
She actually is requesting a budget change.
Yes, she wants to put in a change of address, right.
It's 437-58-3867.
Yes, would you please?
Mhmm.
She's gonna check her rolls, Mrs. Johnson, okay?
Okay?
- Okay.
- Okay?
Okay Nicolassa, good night.
- Good night, bye bye.
Bye.
- Yes, hello.
Do you have...
Is the address 31 East First Street?
It's possible, see she says she was serviced
at 1657 Broadway.
Now I don't know why they would service her up there
if she's got this First Street address.
Do you have a birthday on her?
Yeah.
She has a Valerie Johnson there,
31 East First Avenue.
- They got the address wrong, that's what it is.
That's me.
That's me.
- Yeah.
No, but she has a different social security number.
- She got it wrong then.
My ID was lost, I had to come here and get
duplicate copies of everything, that's me, Valerie Johnson.
- Well here your office is at 125th Street,
did you go way up there too, at 230 West 125th Street?
Oh this is when you lived at East 29th Street,
you don't live there anymore, do you?
- No, that was the old one
when I first got my social security card.
- Now this is the correct number that we have here,
your account number,
your social security number seems to be correct.
She's checking it out for me, okay?
Yeah.
- They told me that's where my check would be returned to,
that center.
- Now you didn't pay rent at this address
for January, did you?
- I ain't got no check for January to pay no rent there.
And brought the two rent checks in here
and turned them in to y'all for December
because I was moving in the hotel.
- But they eventually gave you
the December checks, is that correct?
- No, they didn't give 'em to me, y'all still got 'em.
- You got no checks for December here?
- No, I brought 'em into y'all,
one for rent and one for the...
- I mean your welfare checks,
your welfare checks.
- My welfare checks, I turned 'em back into y'all,
both of 'em.
- You had no money for December here?
- I had food money, but the rent money I brought back in.
- Because you were supposed to have moved.
- Because they was putting me in the hotel
soon as the January first.
- Now what happened to the rent money
they gave you for the new hotel?
They're, excuse me.
- They only paid it for one week,
here's the receipt, you got the receipt.
- Okay, well thank you.
- They only paid it for a week,
and then social security was supposed to have my check there
before this rent was due, and they didn't pay it.
The man was nice enough to let me stay there
two days over, and then he couldn't let me stay no more
after the check wasn't coming and I couldn't pay.
- So you did not pay this hotel any rent,
is that correct?
- Yeah, I paid this here.
- Just one week?
- One week.
- And you stayed a week and two days,
is that right?
- My check was supposed to come the third...
Between the third and the seventh, and it never did come.
- Now let me ask you a question, Mrs. Johnson.
Why does social security have your old number,
your old address, did you ask them that?
- Because when I got put on here,
I didn't have nowhere else to go but to that old apartment,
so I went back in that old apartment.
- And this, we...
This is all you received from this office,
a week's rent to pay this hotel here?
- Right, and food money.
- Do you know if they made a change of address
when you did it?
When we gave you a week's rent here at the Marquez hotel...
- They put the address the Marquez hotel then.
After I had to move out of there
I went to social security,
told them how I had to move out of there
and the only place I had to go was the old apartment.
He sent me with this letter for y'all to send me
with a budget.
- You spent the whole $100
since the sixth of the month?
- I paid my lights, my electric,
and gas bill out of it,
bought a few groceries and it was gone.
Bought two new sweaters...
- Mrs. Johnson,
can you wait 'til tomorrow morning?
I think we should work on this properly.
This man apparently...
- That Valerie Johnson that they got at 39...
- At 39 Broadway.
- Broadway, that's me.
They made the mistake in the number
because I didn't see this lady person,
she took the information on the phone.
- But don't you think
that if you came in in the morning Mrs. Johnson
we could clarify this better?
Perhaps that is your case down at Broadway,
there was a different social security number.
- She got the check down there, right?
- Well she didn't say,
she just gave me your name...
- Would you call and ask and I'll go down there
and have her verify that there's no Valerie Johnson
on First Avenue?
I'll even...
- She said 31 First Avenue.
Do you think it's a mistake?
- It ain't no 31 First Avenue,
it's 31 East First Avenue,
they don't even have no address like that.
- It's 31 East First Street.
- Street, right.
It ain't no...
- I asked her for your birthdate
to verify further whether you were the person
and she did not have your birthdate listed there.
- She did not take my birthdate
when she was asking me on the phone.
- Then you did see someone at 39 Broadway.
- I talked to her on the phone,
and been talking to her almost every day.
- Why don't you go there in person,
why don't you down to lower Broadway right now?
- Would you call her and ask her?
- Well, the rent you owe is for December, is that correct?
- December and January, I got no check for January.
Nothing but food money.
And I'm still waiting on my check.
I've been waiting.
- This is very complicated Mrs. Johnson,
because if you owe December rent.
- I don't owe it, I brought it in and gave it here to y'all.
Y'all got December rent.
- Yes, okay then, then we are probably responsible
for that December check.
Social security would...
- That's what they said, y'all responsible for it.
- And social security...
- Now they're gonna give me January,
but ya'll got my December, which puts me two months behind.
- Then we're gonna have to send you to reception
so you get an appointment for group four,
which is the group that gives out checks here, Mrs. Johnson,
do you understand?
You want me to call reception to see if we can get you
an appointment now?
- Yes.
- For the group here?
- For to see about my December check,
but would you call 39 Broadway?
- This comes from 1657 Broadway.
Whatever this means I don't know.
- Hold on a minute.
- She's under the impression that the security workup
wants a budget from us.
But according to this, there's nothing they can do for her,
they gave her $100 on 1/6,
now, she was referred, she claims
she was given a check by us to the Hotel Marquez on 1/2,
and returned the December rent checks.
- All right, she was probably given...
- Now she's back at this address.
- She was probably given a check on 1/2
to replace December checks that were lost.
That's probably why they were able to
- No, they was mailed to me in the mail.
- Okay.
- And they told me they would put me in the hotel,
so I saved the checks and brought them in here.
Now when I went to social security,
they said they didn't even have me on the roll
'cause no check had been sent out to me no kinda way.
So they gave me emergency food money.
At 39 Broadway office, they got Valerie Johnson,
but they got the wrong address.
- I don't see any way that this office can help her here.
I imagine that was some kind of replacement check.
- I would assume.
But according to this, there's nothing they can do for her
and she needs home relief...
- No, she was a grandfathered in case, do we know that?
- She was, I'm sure she was.
For them to give her $100.
- Did you check the roll?
- I can't get security.
I'll have to check the roll to see if she...
I'm sure she was.
- See if she was grandfathered in.
- May I have your Medicaid card again miss?
Oh nevermind, I have it here, I have it here.
- What it appears to be is
that the money you were given here early in January
was to replace money that was given to you in December
or that was owed to you from December or whatever.
You are definitely on social security's rolls.
You are on there to the amount of...
$241.46 a month.
They may give you, hold on a minute, hold on.
You hear me through and I'll hear you through.
That is the amount that we budgeted you for when we
turned your case over to them.
- That was the 31 East what you call it.
- Okay, hold on a minute.
- But you made me a new budget
when you put me in a hotel.
- Hold on.
For $241.46 a month, they may give you some extra
to make up for the fact that you have lost your food stamps.
I think they make some financial allowance for that.
So you would be getting a little extra.
Now, that is for your budget at 31 East First Street,
you're not living there anymore.
- Right.
- But you moved after the first of January,
if my understanding is correct.
Therefore I do not believe...
- She still made out a new budget.
She still made out a new budget
and told me my check will come to the hotel then.
So she had to make out a hotel budget
in order to send my check to this hotel,
so I have enough money to pay.
- All right, we'll have to wait
until we hear from them downstairs.
I understand somebody down there is looking up your record.
We'll see what they did.
I'm just telling you that my understanding is
that if you moved, your case has been turned over
to the Social Security Administration.
Okay.
Well, let's see what they come up with
from the record downstairs.
If something unusual has occurred,
and that change was put through, fine.
- And messing me around because
I'm getting put out of everywhere, you know,
and I don't have no more food money or anything
because they told me definitely
that my check would be out in a few days.
- Miss Matthews, can you get Mrs. Johnson
to come here in the morning?
Explain to her that perhaps we would have
more time to find her record,
we would have more time...
- You can't find her records?
- They've looked downstairs.
The woman in the group...
- No nobody, she didn't go look.
She didn't go look.
She said she...
- Talk to Miss Perry.
- She couldn't give you any information
without the record, that's what she said,
because she don't remember it.
But she got it wrote in the record, she said.
If you get the record you'll see.
- If they don't have your record,
they don't know nothing about you.
You could be Jane Doe.
You understand where I'm coming from?
They don't know nothing about it,
so you cannot, come here, you got something in your eye.
- They've got...
That's a mole.
That man down there could go get the record, see?
- Open your eye.
- That man down there could go get my record.
- Let's go downstairs, I'll talk to Miss Perry.
- Hey, hey, get your stuff.
- Are you ready yet?
- Yeah, I'm waiting for my checks to be taken downstairs.
- Mrs. Johnson, in the event they don't find your record...
- Is this yours?
Please don't forget nothing.
- Miss Matthews, or rather Miss Johnson.
- She can stay with me until tomorrow if necessary.
- That would be fine.
In the event they don't find your record tonight,
please come here early in the morning,
and go to the reception desk.
- Can she get a receipt?
I mean an appointment?
- She will in the morning, yes.
- She can get an appointment downstairs for tomorrow?
- No.
- I doubt if they could do it for her now,
but she will get one in the morning.
- In the morning she'll get an appointment to come back
for another day?
- On an emergency basis.
- That's not sure, that's not sure.
- You know that, you know they ain't gonna give me no...
- See Mr. Matthews tomorrow.
- Mister?
- Matthews, he's in reception...
- If they don't call her number,
if they don't call her number until 5:00 in the afternoon,
she will not get an appointment till the next day.
- On an emergency basis
we can get her an appointment tomorrow.
- They just gave me an appointment for Wednesday.
- Would you give me a letter saying it's emergency basis?
- You're not gonna get nowhere up here arguing with him.
He's doing his job.
The man can't do no more than...
- She gotta go through all that.
Don't feel bad, look here, I've been here
and haven't even got in.
- Come on, come walk with me.
- I did get 39 Broadway, they have a Valerie Johnson there
with a different social security number,
and they got her at 31 Avenue...
- 31 First Avenue.
- I know, but dig this.
Listen, listen, this is the third time that I've been here.
- Makes me mad to see them do this.
- No, but they don't care nothing back there,
they're gonna send her and she's gonna have to go to...
- You know what's curious,
look at the slip they give her to go here.
165 West 46th Street.
I couldn't even get information
to give me a number on there.
- I cannot get them to give me an address on it,
they transferred me from person to person.
- See that's different, she should...
- But she's still a little mixed up.
Now they gonna fuck her around as long as they can.
- But did she tell them that she was eligible for...
- She's a little bit retarded, if that ain't eligible,
what the fuck is?
- Well does she have a doctor
or a psychiatrist or something to...
- Don't you know they send everybody here to J Street?
- I know, but you don't see no psychiatrist
at 330 J Street, I been there.
- I ain't no psychiatrist and I can tell.
- Right.
- You ain't no psychiatrist and you can tell.
So you know he can tell.
- They don't give you the complete test,
they don't give everybody the complete medical
over on 330 J Street.
- Two and two ain't 22, come on.
- Right, but look.
- That's what I was telling her,
ain't no need in arguing with him.
- Get put out on the street.
- No you're not gonna get put out on the street.
Come walk with me downstairs
and I'll talk to Miss Perry
and she'll try and find your record, okay?
- Listen, they got them procedures Valerie,
and you know...
- She gets upset, and I don't want her to, you know,
she had those like seizures.
- I know, I know.
- Valerie, Valerie, Valerie, look.
I'm gonna get my check.
- I think what she needs to do tomorrow is
- Of course they say that you can't have your own apartment
and all that bologna if you're under 21.
- Oh, that's bullshit.
I have my own.
- I know.
And I went to court.
So now it's...
- I got an apartment.
- But I'm not gonna see them unless the lawyer comes,
because then they just hassle you around and you know.
- They told me I had to get a lawyer
to get a buildings inspector down at my house.
- To get a what?
- To get a buildings inspector.
'Cause we got rats and the walls are falling down.
- And they're letting your baby live there?
They're supposed to come, no building inspector.
- I know.
- They're supposed to come, not no building inspector.
- I came here with about five apartments already
and they refused them all.
- Yeah?
How much were the rents?
- One was $135 and one was $160.
Now I got one for $90, they can't refuse me now.
- My son is only five months old
and you know, my mother's real sick,
you know, asthmatic and stuff like that,
my father's had heart attacks,
we don't get along anyway, you know,
'cause he's mad 'cause I'm not married and I had the kid.
So now I have my own apartment
they tell me you can't have it.
When I was pregnant I came here,
I was five months pregnant and they made me come in
like six or seven times,
and they tell me okay, we're gonna give you,
open your own budget, open your own budget,
and they told me no, you know?
And I didn't even have car fare to come or anything.
This place gives you a big around, they're full of shit.
- You know what you should do is get your parents
to write you a letter.
- I got it notarized, I got notarized letter...
- Say that they won't support you.
- I know, but mother's, she's very sick,
and me and my son shouldn't be living in the house.
I got a notarized letter from my father
that he doesn't want me in the house.
That's how they are.
Usually they put the baby in your mother's custody
or something, but they put it in my custody, you know?
But I'm on program and they're pretty good.
Private programs aren't as good as city program, you know?
It's much better.
- Take my kid.
Now welfare, I have to have a letter from my shrink
saying that I'm mentally stable now,
'cause I got off on mental disability two years ago,
and they want to know whether I'm stable or not
enough to have a kid.
So I talked to my shrink and he says
well what do you want me to tell them?
I said tell them I'm not crazy no more.
So I got this shrink, you know.
- Yeah, because they do try, you know.
That's less money for them to be giving you, you know,
they take the baby away.
- Yeah right, they took her off my budget
just 'cause she was in the hospital for a week.
So now I have to get her back.
If I get this place I could get her back on before the 7th
so I have a little money.
- There's no way it can be reopened.
State law provides that if it's closed for more than...
- Aww man, you're giving me technicality,
I'm telling you about a condition, man,
I might be not eating or have no place to stay,
and you're telling me about technicalities.
Man, what are you telling me?
Now what did you give me a check for
when I came down here last time for?
- I've never given you a check.
- I'm talking about...
You're that technical, that you know,
you understand what I'm saying when I say "you,"
I'm not speaking about you, you know?
- Let me say something.
Your case was open the last time you came in the center
and that was three months ago.
- How could it be open when I got a notification
stating that the case was closed?
What are you telling me, you're telling me something...
- I'm telling you
that the last time you were here,
wait a minute now.
- What do you mean, wait a minute?
Don't tell me to wait a minute.
- I'm telling you
the last time you were here on the eighth of November,
your case was open, which is why you got a check then.
- Well all right then.
I'm telling you I got no official notice
that would even indicate that I should come down here.
Well who do I ask for a fair hearing?
- I need five operations.
They have my records there that I need these operations.
From my doctor, from their doctor.
I have a brace now, orthopedic brace,
I can hardly walk.
Yet I have to come down here and fight for my check,
and some mornings I can't get up.
Out of bed.
And my doctor's mad that I just, you know,
signed my way into the hospital.
But where would I live when I come out?
I have a tumor on my back, I need a left ear operation,
I have hernias.
They have it all down in my record.
I was at social security office yesterday,
off 46th Street, the annex.
And they told me to come down here
and I would get a check here.
Now these people say I'm supposed to get a check...
- That's what happened to me.
The social security sends you to the welfare
and they says the welfare will give you a check,
and the welfare says that the social security's
supposed to give you a check, and nobody gives you a check.
- I have no rent money or food money,
and I have no car fare money.
- I don't even have, you have to sneak under the trains
to get in the trains to go see the offices.
- That's how I came here.
By sneaking on the train.
- To get down to the offices,
and once you're in the office you wait around for hours,
and they don't care.
People got lost and the man at the social security
said that he's took care of two and a half million people
he had to take care of, so if a couple of thousand
don't get their check, he's doing a very good job.
- They told them to bring in a letter from social security
and they told them to bring, yeah, yes.
Well what did they tell you today?
- They told us to come back tomorrow.
- They told them to come back tomorrow.
- Fill out an application and come back tomorrow.
- Fill out the application and come back tomorrow.
Oh, you were given an appointment for tomorrow.
Listen...
- But then we don't have money for today.
- But she doesn't have no money for today.
And the social workers are you know, real...
He says that he can't help her out and it's impossible.
Do you have someplace to stay tonight?
- Yeah she has...
Yeah, she has an apartment.
- The only thing they can do,
we'll give you an appointment for tomorrow.
If you can't...
If they refuse to help her tomorrow
you come up and I'll go downstairs with you, okay?
- But I want some money for today so she can...
- They won't be able to give you money today.
There's no way they can give you...
She got a place to live
and it's not an emergency, they claim.
- But she don't have nothing to eat.
- Nothing we can do about it.
They claim that there's no food money in the house,
you know?
- Okay.
- Look.
That's all she has.
- Make the appointment.
Make the appointment and come back tomorrow morning,
as they requested.
And if she runs into a snafu tomorrow,
if she runs into some sort of problem tomorrow,
you and her come upstairs and see me, okay?
- Well what is she gonna do for today?
That's what I want to know.
She's a real person.
- Listen, there's nothing...
They won't give her any money today.
Okay?
- Not even a few dollars so she can eat?
- Nothing, nothing at all.
Better come back tomorrow morning.
- She says you told her she was gonna check from them.
- I just talked to the applications,
the head supervisor there,
and they won't be able to help you.
- Well what's she gonna do, starve?
- I didn't say you should starve,
did I say you should starve?
- Well what is she gonna do?
She don't have no money.
- You represent a poverty agency or what?
- No, a community center.
Aldridge Community Center.
But she needs...
- She didn't live in a vacuum all these years,
she knows the grocery men and she knows different people,
she can get credit for a day.
She didn't live in a vacuum,
all these years she's lived in New York,
she worked, she knows people, she knows grocery men,
she knows neighbors, she has some sort of relatives,
she knows people...
- She's never taken welfare before,
and now that she comes for help, you know,
nobody wants to help her.
If you want to tell me if she would be here every time
for welfare, then I could understand what you're saying.
- Nobody said they're not gonna help her,
they're gonna help her.
She brought back the requirements,
as she was told to do.
- And she doesn't get no help,
and she brought the requirements.
- They say they won't be able to see her till tomorrow,
that's it.
There's nothing more I can do.
I'd like to help you out, but that's all I can do.
Tomorrow I'll personally go down with you, tomorrow.
If she runs into any problems.
Okay?
- Why not today?
It's gonna be the same thing today as tomorrow.
- They won't see her till tomorrow.
- She signs an application today...
- I didn't see the appointment,
originally I had not seen the appointment,
when you first came up,
I had not seen the appointment for tomorrow.
- So what's so big about an appointment
when you could do it today?
She's willing to stay here.
- Did you see how many people
were downstairs?
- There's an emergency case, right?
- Every case is an emergency.
- Do you eat?
- Every case is...
- You eat, right?
- Do you eat?
- Yes.
- Do you eat?
- Yes.
- Okay, I eat also.
That's very good, I'm proud of you.
- She's not in good health.
- I'm proud of you.
- She's had an operation, right?
Well what is she supposed to do?
- All I can do.
There's nothing more we can do about it.
Nothing more we can do.
- 19C.
- Made more phone calls trying to get a job,
no one's given me a job.
I'll get a job though.
- Can you cook?
- Cook?
Yeah, I can cook.
Anything.
- Were you ever on a ship?
- Yeah, small ships, small boats.
Yeah, in fact I was on...
The last trip I was on was a French aircraft carrier.
- Oh yeah?
- Yeah.
- What were you doing there, cooking?
- I was just wandering around, visiting.
- You been in Europe and Asia?
- Never been in Asia.
- You been out of the country?
- Yeah.
- Where?
- Canada.
- Oh.
It's the only place I haven't been.
- Montreal, Toronto.
- You are?
That's good.
- Well I'm worth a fortune myself...
$3000.
- $3000?
- And $2500 from a month, welfare $500 month or so.
- Doing pretty good.
I haven't worked for since October.
- My brother-in-law, my future brother-in-law Nelson
Broke.
- Broke?
I'm not a success.
- You'll get money, you'll get your money.
- I don't even have a credit card.
Don't even have a credit card.
- Did you ever do any fighting?
- No.
I'm a peaceful man.
- Ever had any fights?
- Not in a long time.
My wife hit me in the head I think.
- You still mad?
- Yeah.
- We'll go down and find out.
I can get shelter.
Get a worker.
And possibly I can,
and then
I'll see if I can.
- What did you say, that she said you have to have
a physical and a psychiatric exam?
- No no no no.
You have a physical
on like the first,
then you wait a day,
then you go back on the third.
Apparently they do blood tests and things like that.
- You come back here two days later.
- You come back here on the fourth.
Assuming the fourth is a day they're open.
- Not a weekend or something, yeah.
- It's probably another weekend.
By then I'll be very hungry.
- Oh, I'm sure you will have.
It's procedure, she told me.
- I filled out all these papers.
I could show you VA, this, that.
We're having a black.
It's...
It's a catastrophe
for any poor slob seeking assistance.
And I got stuff here.
I can show you
so much stuff here.
This, that, and that.
All these are different things.
All these are places I've been.
Show you names, rent numbers here,
names, all these centers, every one of them.
I'm a veteran, they say I'm not a Korean veteran,
because I went on 9/17/53.
And officially according to the VA,
it ain't over till 1/55.
That I'm positive of,
because I would've had a wartime disability,
they told me it was before.
No I was, I went in late.
- I was in '52.
- I was in the Navy before that.
- Yeah, well I was in the Army at that time.
It just doesn't make a damn difference.
- You can get VA assistance.
You can get VA assistance.
Did you go up to that place, 529 Eighth Avenue?
Something's awful funny here.
Something doesn't meet the eye.
Look at all these places I've been to.
No car fare, nothing.
I don't eat.
Walk the streets.
I got medical proof of my sickness.
I'll have it tomorrow.
If this...
I'll have the money on Tuesday, rather.
I gotta mail these letters out.
I ain't got stamps.
I been here four times this week, four times.
And they keep sending me out,
and every place I go keeps sending me back here.
Now you figure that one out.
Here I was all day one day.
Look at these forms they fill out.
A whole rigamarole of forms.
Papers, papers, papers.
I got more.
There's one.
There's another one.
There's another one and another one.
Here's my hospital card from the VA, I'm a veteran.
And a driver's permit.
I been to 20, 30 places.
- Hi David, you're not gonna believe what's happening dear.
Tuesday morning I came over to the Waverly center.
Waverly said bring back a passport,
bring a notarization for your father
that he's not willing to support you anymore,
fill out this application,
bring back letters from your doctors
for when you were dismissed, when you entered,
all this crap.
And they gave me appointment for Thursday morning.
Oh and also a notarized letter from my roommate
that she was no longer gonna put up with me after Friday.
Well I have a letter from her,
but the poor kid does not have the time to notarize it.
So I came back, I really forgot the appointment on Thursday
because I've been depressed and kind of upset,
I come back today, I went to talk to the worker,
she would not read the letter from the department of...
Oh yesterday I went down to the World Trade Center
department of social whatever it is from the state, yeah.
Well, she would not read that letter,
nor would she read the letters from the two doctors,
she said I'll give you an appointment for Monday.
I said I'm sorry, I have $1 to my name
and I have not got a place to sleep this weekend.
She said sorry, all I can do
is give you an appointment for Monday.
I said you got to be kidding.
I am out of an institute for manic depression,
and I am depressed lady.
What do I do?
Come back for your appointment on Monday.
Do you believe that?
This coming Monday.
She doesn't really care.
None of them care.
I told her I have no friends.
I told her I have no place to go.
I told her I have $1, that I walked up from Bleaker Street.
I have a notarized letter from a hospital,
I have a notarized letter from everybody.
I have every goddamn thing they asked for.
And they said all we can do,
I've spoken to the office manager,
is you can come back Monday morning for an appointment.
I said lady, what do I do for the weekend?
I am sick, I was discharged Monday
from a psychiatric institute for manic depression.
This is friendly New York for you
in the New York welfare department.
Maybe she thinks I should sleep
at Port Authority for the weekend.
Yeah, that's what they...
Oh, she first, even down at the state department
or whatever it is, she said women's shelter,
she said but you really couldn't go there,
there's a lot of sickies there.
A lot of dikes, a lot of really, you know,
bad news people.
I said really lady, I would freak out.
There is no way I could handle that.
And she said well I'm sorry,
it takes at least maximum 45 days
to get approved for welfare.
I said...
And they wouldn't touch me in the hospital.
So what the hell do they expect me to do?
What?
Yeah?
That's not a bad idea.
Well I'm writing a letter to the Village Voice.
Maybe I'll call him too.
Geraldo Rivera?
Okay.
Yeah.
I think he might be very interested in it.
- You're gonna see more hanging
than you ever saw in your life.
- Oh, I've seen a lot of hanging.
- Any hanging.
- Oh yes, man.
Lost my brother at five years old, hmm.
- They'll hang.
They'll hang like crazy.
Crazy.
- What can I tell you?
What can I tell you?
- You can't tell me anything.
- There it is.
- There's no way to control it, man.
- Nobody controls anything.
- What are we talking about?
- We all act savages.
That's the way this country was founded.
- Savages.
- There it is.
- We're all savages.
- All of us, black, white, blue, green, purple,
all of us are savages.
- There's no way we can conduct ourselves as gentlemen
amongst ourselves?
- There is.
That can be done, but nobody wants to take time
or to sit down and find it.
- I do.
- You do?
By calling me nigger?
Telling me you're gonna shoot me with a 357 magnum?
- The next time three guys do this up against my head
I'm gonna shoot 'em.
- But you got a right against those three guys.
- You better believe it, baby.
- Those three.
Only those three.
You don't come here and threaten me.
I ain't never seen you before.
I ain't put my hands on you.
And you come in here and you threatening me.
- You black are about 10% of the population,
and you account for 63% of the crime.
- Well what can we tell you?
- Statistically you don't have to tell me anything.
- what you want me to say?
- How come 10% are worth 63% of the crime?
- So now what you're trying to say is
all of us are bad.
- No.
- Hmm?
- No.
No one is all bad.
- So this is what the whole thing is about...
- I'm giving you a statistic.
- Can I do that?
- What do you mean?
- Statistic don't mean anything to me.
Really.
'Cause there ain't a man out there on the street
I'm afraid of.
Nobody gonna take anything from me.
- Cain killed Abel.
- Yeah, but Abel wasn't looking.
- His brother.
That's right.
- I don't trust anyone.
- I assume they were white.
- Oh, you can assume what you want to.
- Whatever.
- You can assume what you want to.
- It's not a hangup about the black.
- I know those.
This I know.
- Why are the blacks "get whitey," huh?
Get whitey?
- So why was it before get nigger?
- Get whitey.
Get nigger?
- What goes around comes around.
- They didn't have to get nigger.
They could hang the niggers, they didn't have to get 'em.
- They could hang the niggers, just like...
That's your race, that's your race.
Hang a nigger any time you want to.
- Any time.
- Right after lunch, hang a nigger.
- As it should be.
Get outta town by sunset.
Your ass is black, get outta town.
- Yeah it is.
- Don't be here when the sun sets.
- Yeah right.
- That's Mississippi.
- That's all over.
- But what about my town?
- What is your town?
- New York.
We never did that.
- New York is my town too.
- We never did that.
- You never did what?
- We never talked.
- Huh?
- We never talked "get your ass outta here,
"get your ass outta New York,".
- Really?
Are you sure of this?
- Absolutely.
- You're positive?
- Can't be positive, only a fool is positive.
- All right then, all right then.
- A fool is certain.
- So don't come and tell me.
- But I never hanged.
- You can't tell me something you're positive of,
I don't even want to hear it.
Oh you never, there's a lot I never heard of.
- But I was really amazed when I saw
these three goddamn blacks beating me head
and kicking my head in.
- You keep bringing that up.
- Kicking my head in.
- You keep bringing that up.
Well it's a fact, man.
- I got nothing to do with that.
- Well certainly you don't.
- I got nothing to do with that.
- But they got a particular sadistic delight
in beating whitey's head in.
That covered all the hangings and all the, you know.
Covered everything.
They didn't even know.
- That made up for all of it.
- It made up for all of it.
- That one little incident with you
made up for everything.
Well then everything should be straight now.
Everything should be straight now.
- No.
The only thing straight is that I'm gonna get a gun
and I see a black man coming up to me
I'm gonna blow his belly in.
I'm not gonna blow his belly out,
I'm gonna hit him in the balls.
- Mhmm.
- So they'll not forget it.
- You think they make only one gun?
- One gun to blow his balls...
- That's all they make, that's all they make is one gun.
- But I'm gonna...
I'm a gunnery sergeant.
I was a Marine sergeant.
- What that mean?
- I killed about 500 men in the war and never saw them.
But now I'm gonna see that black man...
- How you know you killed them?
- And those Puerto Ricans...
- Oh, now it's the Puerto Ricans.
- Yeah.
- If talked to you in half an hour
it'd be an Irishman and a Chinaman.
Yeah, okay.
- Sure.
But at the moment it's Puerto Rican and colored.
- Yeah, what was it, two blacks and one Puerto Rican?
Or two Puerto Ricans and one black?
- It happened to be three blacks.
- It happened to be three blacks and one Puerto Rican.
- Well, when this happened, yeah.
- Oh, when that happened.
Puerto Rican was in there when this happened.
- Kicking my brains in.
Now don't tell me, man.
- I can't tell you anything, I can see that.
- They got a real delight.
- I can see it.
I can't tell you anything.
- Kicking my brains in.
I'm trying to fight 'em.
Get that whitey, get whitey, you whitey.
Punks.
- Did you do anything to them?
- Eh.
- What?
- If I'd have got ahold of them I'd strangle them.
- I didn't say, I said did you do anything
before they started hitting you?
- Of course not.
- Hmm?
You're just walking down the street.
- One guy grabbed me on the back of the neck,
I'm down, there it is.
I'm down, I'm out.
I got up to fight him.
- I feel for you.
- They ripped me off and...
- I feel for you myself, feel you.
- Oh, you feel, yeah.
- I feel for you, I'm serious.
- You would've protected me.
- Probably.
Probably.
- With the badge and everything.
- Probably.
Put my life on the line for less than that.
For a country I don't have.
- For a country you don't have?
- Country I do not have.
- I don't have a country, man.
You people have got it.
- Oh, we got it now.
Oh, so it's our country and you're just living here.
- I won't fight anymore for this one.
- Yeah?
- 30 years ago I fought for this one.
Not anymore.
Not to bring up the swine that's coming up on the street.
- What swine you talking about now?
What swine are you talking about now?
- What do you want, baby?
- I don't want anything.
- What do you really want?
- Actually I don't even feel like talking to you,
but since you're here, to tell you the truth.
- Oh you'd rather ignore the whole thing, eh?
- Isn't that what you're doing?
- No.
- No?
- I'm bitching like crazy.
I come in here and they can't even give me
a room to sleep tonight.
- Why?
- Why?
- Why?
- Well ask them, don't ask me.
- They should've told you.
- Why?
- Didn't you talk to the ladies, she told you.
- Got a fractured skull,
I've been two months in the hospital and out,
they get a letter from the hospital
and I'm persona non grata.
What should I add?
For my country.
Two Puerto Rican paramours, three colored concubines?
- Now it's five of them.
- Six children, six children.
Well, it's only a story.
What should I do?
I paid more taxes than my president.
- We all paid more taxes than your president.
- Yeah.
- You didn't say nothing.
- Is there anybody that'll talk to me,
or what are you gonna do with me?
- The lady talked to you already.
I don't know what she told you...
- They haven't talked to me yet.
It's getting late.
- So what are you doing,
you going to the hospital now?
- Yeah.
You gotta call the hospital, I want to go back.
- They're not coming.
- May I use your phone?
- any phone you want to.
- Never the twain shall meet, huh?
Never the twain shall meet.
- If that's the way you feel.
If that's the way you feel.
- It's the way I know, baby.
We're never gonna make it.
Never gonna make it.
- I'm not gonna stop trying till I'm dead.
- This is not my country,
you don't even comb your hair that way,
you're gonna be...
- Comb what hair?
- Black is beautiful.
- I got the right to wear my hair any way I please.
- Black is beautiful, man.
- I know it is.
- Black is blond.
- To you.
- I'm getting a 357 magnum and blowing
every black that I can right out of the business.
- Now two wrongs don't make a right now.
- Right.
- Mhmm.
- And when we finally get rid of the 10% of black.
- Just get rid of all of us.
- Get rid of all of you.
- Never.
Never.
- Not the way you progenerate.
- No way.
- Oh man, you're like rabbits, you're like rabbits.
- No way.
- You're like rabbits.
But where we're gonna beat you is
because you don't have any homes.
When they get so goddamn black,
these streets are gonna run with blood.
- Well, one thing I can tell you is...
- And you're only 10%, man.
- It won't be all black blood.
- Oh, you'll get some whiteys.
They're getting some whiteys.
They're getting a few cops.
They're dedicated to get cops.
There's a, you know.
The blacks are dedicated to get cops.
- Oh, we all are.
- They've killed many many cops.
- I'm dedicated to get a cop.
- Oh, you got to get 'em.
- Oh, I got to get 'em.
- Badge or no badge.
You got to get 'em.
Oh yeah.
Yep.
- That sounds a little far-fetched.
- And that's not even the Muslim.
They're even taking 'em out in far-fetched Muslim,
but it's not even far-fetched Muslim.
They're out to get the cops.
But we're not gonna allow it.
And because the fact that you're in the minority,
you're gonna die.
You're gonna be worse off than you ever were.
- Could be.
But you have to remember...
- Back to Africa.
- You have to remember minorities started this country.
- Not a minority.
- Oh yes it was.
- Oh no.
- When the British this country,
how many people were in America, man?
- That was a political and a religious minority,
but they were white, they were white, they were white.
- This is different.
This is different.
- Yep, yep.
Like a man says, biologically and nomologically,
and prominality, everything the black,
- What?
- Different.
- Different than whom?
- The whites.
- Hmm?
- The whites.
- In what respect?
In what respect am I different from you?
- You figure it out.
Take your whole people.
- I'm no different from you.
- Don't put it specifically.
- Except maybe a little prouder.
- Prouder?
- Maybe a little prouder.
That's right.
- Man, you got nothing going.
- Who got nothing going?
I got everything going.
- Nothing.
You got nothing going.
- Really?
- Really.
- Looks like I got more going now
and I'm only 22 than you have your whole life.
- I'm 51, man.
- That's right.
- And I've fought wars, twice.
- Oh, I've fought 'em too, ain't no big thing.
Ain't no big thing.
And I fought in a war that was worse than yours.
'cause I saw who I was killing.
- You never see.
- Oh, I saw who I was killing.
Every man I shot down, I saw.
- I never saw the men that I killed.
- That's the difference between your war and mine.
- I had orders.
- We all had orders.
- You're prejudiced, that means that you had...
- At whom?
- You had a particular reason to kill a man.
- At whom am I prejudiced?
- I never killed a man I ever...
I never killed a man.
I never killed a man that I...
Never had anything against a man that I killed.
- So then what were you doing in the war, then?
- Survival.
- Isn't that what we're doing?
- Simply survival.
- Isn't that what we're doing?
- Oh no, not the way the blacks coming up now.
Black is beautiful, black is perfect, black power.
- Still survival.
- Power, power, power.
- Still survival.
It's all survival.
- You got nothing going, man.
- I got everything.
- Man, you say black is power, you're gonna 86 out.
- 86 out.
I might as well get all my business together.
- Get all your business together.
- Say goodbye to everybody.
- Say goodbye to everybody.
- But see I didn't know, you know.
How did I know?
Hmm?
- You don't think you're gonna make too goddamn much.
- Oh, I'm gonna make everything I want.
- Well take a look at TV right now.
We're in the greatest goddamn spot.
What do you got?
- What do we have?
- What do you got?
Not even expression.
- Tell me.
- Not even leadership.
Nothing.
- At what?
- At any level.
- At any level?
- You blacks can't even lead each other.
You can't even lead each other.
- Ain't got nothing better to do.
Don't have anything better to do.
All right, I'll finish, okay.
All right, it was nice talking to you.
I learned a lot from you.
- It wasn't, you haven't learned a goddamn thing.
- Yes I did, I learned that I don't have long to live.
That's good to know.
- You're killing yourself.
- I don't want to die just like that.
If I know it's coming I can prepare for it.
- It depends on who shoots you, who hangs you.
- Really.
- I got no respect.
- Well that's you.
- No respect.
- I got enough for both of us.
- Nope.
- I got enough for both of us.
- I hope it'll keep us alive.
- It's gonna keep me alive.
- Your name is Magdonna, right?
- Yes.
- Okay, Mrs. Magdonna, I...
- And they say I'm not supposed to...
- Sweetheart, listen to me.
- No more white tickets,
I done got about four of 'em already.
- Will you listen to me?
- Yes.
- I asked you to be patient,
and when the lady comes back from lunch,
I told you that I would come over and let you know,
all right?
I would check it out for you, right?
- Yeah, but is she back?
- No she's not back.
She's not back.
- Well there ain't but three chairs in there.
- Be patient, all right?
Have a seat over there and I'll take care of it for you,
okay?
- Please, 'cause I got to go to my parole hearing.
- All right.
Excuse me.
- You have to go.
Just get out of the center, all right?
- Oh boy.
Mister, just get out of the center now.
- You know, the interesting thing is
that I see every cop is black.
Why is this?
If I were a white man, or any particular thing,
I'd probably think they were prejudiced.
What the hell, is everybody in social welfare
and everything black?
- 'Cause we want to help.
- I think I'll get a...
What the hell is it?
An NAAWP?
- CP?
- CP for white.
- That's good.
- A white man's gotta protect himself.
See the reason I didn't break your haed.
The reason I didn't break your head was because I knew
But you hit me like a tiger.
You actually wanted to do it.
But I knew I could've busted you back
and if it weren't for these guys...
- Mister, why don't you go on now?
Won't you please go now?
- You couldn't put him in a bag
when I get through with him.
- He'll be fine, yeah.
- You believe it?
- Right, okay...
- And that's with the badge right on top of it.
You're that great, man.
But if you think you can take me,
take my hand right now.
Put one foot to me
and show these black men how great you are.
- Mister, will you please go on?
Go to the hospital, go where you're going.
- No, I want to get another one.
- Come on, day's over man.
- Oh Jesus Christ.
- Oh I know I'm gonna get stuck doing this forever.
- Hold it a minute.
- Somebody show me to the elevator?
- Elevator?
- Yeah.
Well I don't know.
I need a new Medicaid card.
- Let me take care of you.
Let me take care of you.
Sit down.
- Thank you.
- Okay.
- The reason why they want
to close your case is because
they have tried to verify your husband's income
for several months and nobody's cooperated...
- He brought the income in, it's right here in the record.
We brought it in, and they took a photostatic copy.
Would you look in the record and find it?
Every check I have to go through all this bullshit?
There was one time he did bring it in,
it's in there, the photostatic copy.
That's it right there.
They gonna keep telling me he didn't bring the pay stub in?
He don't get paid off in check,
he get paid off in envelopes.
- What did they tell you
at the conference that was held on this case
when you received a notice
that your case was gonna be closed?
- They did not send me a notice telling me
my case was gonna be closed.
- Well you had a conference,
didn't you go to the conference?
- Yes.
And they did not tell...
- You wouldn't have known
about the conference unless you had known
your case was going to be closed.
- I asked for this.
- Yes, but I mean you asked for it
because they sent you this here.
- They didn't send nothing out to me
because when I came into the office
I asked them for a fair hearing.
So they advised me to go upstairs to this lady.
And she sent me a notice,
appointment when to come in.
- And that's Miss Horowitz you saw, right?
- They did not discuss
nothing about no case closing or nothing.
You think if they told me my case was going to be closed
I'd be sitting up here?
- Well the conference was held, according to all of this.
No Tom, you're misunderstanding me.
- Yes, I know what you're saying.
- She got this.
- Right, right.
- She called the number.
- And she's been at the fair hearing.
- She got this conference.
Yeah, the conference said her case would be closed
so they're sending her this notice saying...
- Yeah but she didn't in fact have a fair hearing,
it was a conference, right?
- Well, my question is this.
She says that she gave them the information they wanted.
And if you look in the record.
- Yeah, but I'm asking you, did she...
- You will see that in fact she did.
- Yeah, but I'm not...
- So I wonder why they're closing her case.
- Oh, that, okay.
This is from George Drew's office.
- Horowitz worked on it.
Should I go up and give Horowitz a run for her money?
- Go up and ask her why they're closing her case.
- Fabulous.
- Right.
That's a whole...
Thanks, Noel.
Thanks Noel.
- Excuse me, is this Miss Horowitz's office?
And you agree that the case should be closed,
is that what this means?
- Client working for five years...
Yes, that's what it means.
Whatever action is necessary.
Because I have no proof that this man has left the home,
in fact I don't believe he has.
- Well no, but she was asked to bring in the pay stubs,
right?
That's what the closing is for.
She says she brought them and there is a copy of them.
Did she show you that?
- She asked me to change the budget,
put it back in her name, that he's not living with her,
do you know about that?
- Is this what she brought you?
Is that sufficient, does that answer the closing notice?
- There's more involved than just what the man is making.
- Yes I know, there is more involved, I agree with you,
but we have to go by what is on this paper here,
and it says we're closing it because for the last
five years, you have never brought your pay stubs.
He's bringing them now.
- Yeah.
- So you have to leave it open.
- He brings them now and he's saying
he's living with his wife...
- Well we'll get into that later.
- That's the thing that you have to go into now,
is the case suspicious.
That's why...
- So finally they find out how much money he's making
and now she says he's no longer in the home.
But my point is you cannot go ahead and close it
because she brought the stuff.
- If she has complied, you know,
I'm not the fair hearing section.
- Yes, but you had the conference on it.
- Yes, at the time I had the conference
I didn't have proof of current income.
He showed me something from a year or two before
or something, I didn't see that one
from the current pay slip.
- Well is that sufficient, what I showed you here?
- Yes, I would say it is.
- Okay, so it can't be closed.
Are you gonna void this 913 then?
'Cause her case is going to be closed
unless someone called up and said stop it.
Or however you do that.
- I have to change it to not upheld.
That's all I do.
- So her case will remain open.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
Thank you.
Tom.
I pointed out to Miss Horowitz the error of her ways.
- Yes.
- She's upset because she doesn't believe the woman's story
that conveniently her husband has disappeared
as soon as this is taken care of,
rather that he's out of the home.
She wants the case transferred to her name
because the checks are going out in his name.
I think we just don't do that on her say,
we'll have to find out where he is,
meaning write to his employer, see what address is there,
check housing, 'cause they live in public housing,
see if he's listed on that.
- Send a letter, a registered certified letter...
- Now, you should also know that she says
her children are starving.
- Her what?
- She wants some money.
Do you want to give her any?
- Well, the can't.
- Okay.
- Yeah, they can't close it on that, they have to...
- No, the closing yes, they will not close.
But she wants the money today.
Of course they can't give her any
unless the case is reclassified into her name.
- Well they have to reclassify it then...
- Well they can't do it until we check it out.
- No...
Well, I don't know how they...
Now let me tell you, they have to reclassify into her name
before they can give it, right, the checks?
- Right.
- However, she has a perfect right
to ask for a fair hearing,
despite the hearing she had upstairs.
- No, she doesn't need a fair hearing.
We've already decided her case is not to be closed
because she did at the last minute bring the pay stub.
- What I say is they would...
I would suggest...
- But now she's saying don't count the pay stubs
because the guy does not live there any longer.
- If she's without funds,
they have to service her financially.
They'll have to make the switch on the basis
of our ongoing investigation.
- They'll have to decide that.
- That's their decision, but that's what they'll have to do.
- So I'll just work on our end.
- Right.
They'll have to make whatever change is necessary
to service her and on the basis of our investigation...
- Miss Horowitz had made a mistake.
You did bring the pay stub,
or your husband did, whoever did.
We have to verify where your husband is now.
Did you tell Lilian Wallhauser that he had moved out?
- Yes.
- So he's off their records.
- Yes, because I have the new lease
they sent in the mail yesterday
for me to fill out for that.
- Are you married to him?
- Yes, I'm legally married to him, I have my
papers here.
- Do any other children live in the home
besides these listed here?
Patricia, Leeroy, Priscilla, Denise,
and there's another Patricia?
- No, they have...
Gwendoline's supposed to be.
It's Gwendoline, Patricia, Denise, and Leeroy,
Michael and Irving have left.
- Well we'll have to refer this
to family court.
- So I can't get an emergency check?
Some food for the kids?
- Well it's not that simple
because they have to take your husband off the case,
and they can't do that,
they can't make any changes in the welfare budget
without sending a notice to you
and giving you 15 days to say go ahead and do it
or I don't care or say nothing or protest it
or whatever you want to do,
even if this move is in your favor,
in this case it would be in your favor
to take your husband off the budget today.
They can't do that 15 days.
So I think you're in a bind.
But I'll take the record up to the group.
It's not my responsibility, money matters.
And I'll explain to them that we're referring it to court,
and...
Since welfare's really based upon what clients say,
they really have to believe what you tell them.
Until it's proved otherwise.
How long have you been on welfare?
- Let's see.
About eight or nine years.
Maybe 10.
- Well, we can take this up to the group.
Do you want to sign this, Tom?
- Yes, yes.
- No no, I haven't.
- Okay right.
They have to process it until our investigation is through.
Whatever manipulations they have to make.
- To start with the reason that we sent people to J Street,
the reason that we send everybody to J Street
is because we want to see if you're able to work or not.
Because that's the most important factor
in determining what type of assistance is appropriate.
So we have different types of assistance
based on whether or not you are able to work.
And the J Street report says that you are employable.
How much school have you had?
- Well, I went to the ninth grade.
- In New York?
- Yes, in New York.
- And what do you have
in the way of employment background?
- Well, I don't have too much of a employment experience
due to the fact that, you know,
I've just been released out of prison after 11 years.
- Where were you?
- You know, I was Clinton, Comstock, and what have you,
nevertheless I was released out of prison.
- Oh, so you've been in jail several times.
- No, that's my first time in prison.
But I did 11 years in prison.
So I don't have too much of a backing, you know, background.
- What was the charge?
- Homicide.
- Are you now...
You served the complete sentence, are you on parole?
- I'm still on parole for four years.
- Did you manage to pick up
any special training or anything like that?
- Well...
Yes, tailoring.
My first few years in prison, I picked up tailoring,
but I'm not that well, you know, skilled in tailoring
due to the fact that I dropped it, you know.
I have to brush up on it.
- So what happens is we send you over today
to the rep office, that'll be this morning, right from here,
and first you're seen by somebody from the New York state
employment service, because they would have full time jobs,
and certainly if you can get a full time job,
that would be anything that rep would offer.
If they don't have a full time job,
or it looks as though they are not going to have one
very soon, then they forward you to the rep,
and you'll have another person,
like another case worker, who will again
ask about your employment background
and see if they've got anything that looks good.
It's very important to get the phone number of that person,
because just in case let's say you're unable
to keep an appointment or something,
they right away start telling me to close the case,
you know?
And this is one of the problems that you might have.
So in general I'm also going to give you my phone number
because I'm going to have your case here
so that, I mean, if some complication comes up,
right away call so that there won't be any misunderstanding,
because it's much easier to you know,
settle things out before they happen.
- I've been a supervisor since 1966,
and I see people who've been supervisors since 1969
who are getting all the very best jobs,
and I don't like it.
- Who has the best job?
- Well, and she's frozen and no one can touch her.
You take this woman here, she's pleading hardship.
You take Mr. Morris, he's pleading union delegate,
he can't be moved.
- She's a union delegate.
- Right, that's what I'm saying,
and they pull super seniority.
So by the time they finish I have no seniority at all,
because everybody else is going,
you take Susteel who should've been out of here
and she's pleading hardship.
Well it's more hardship for me.
- She is a sick woman, she had a...
- I have to come from New Jersey,
what are you talking about?
I get up at 5:30 every morning,
and spend a lot of money,
I spend more money to get to this job
than anybody else on staff.
You wouldn't believe it the money I spend
to get to this job.
That's right.
Whether I come by train, whether I come by my personal car
or what, it's very expensive to come from New Jersey.
- At one time the department didn't have
anybody on the staff who lived out of state, you know that?
- Don't give me about out of state.
I've been on...
When I first came to the department I lived in New York.
Not only did I live in New York,
I was a home owner in New York,
having a house 60 by 100 at 1144500 79th Street St. Albans.
A very wealthy section, right?
Now, I own property in New York.
I'm entitled to work in New York
and lived there for many many years.
- I know that, I...
- The reason I went to Newark was because
my stepfather died and he left my mother
all alone in the house.
So I went to live with her.
When she died, the house came to me by inheritance.
What am I gonna do, throw the house in the street?
Right?
- Well if you have any grievance,
why don't you discuss it with Stanley?
- It's useless to discuss with Stanley, he his favorites.
Just like before.
I should've gotten the...
I should have bene the supervisor for general service
because I had the seniority, I had the training,
I've had the courses,
I've been to four of them, I've had casework one,
casework two, personality and behavior one,
personality and behavior two,
administration and juvenile delinquency.
Now that fits me for something,
I haven't been just sitting on my rear
not keeping abreast of the times.
I've always kept up.
And I think I deserve better than the kind of fair shuffle
that I've been getting here in this welfare department.
Because this man is a czar and he's going to put in
who he wants to put in.
- Why don't you discuss it with him?
- That's all.
What's there to discuss?
- Why are you taking it out on me?
- Because you called me in.
And that's why I resorted to CO,
because I figured they must have some kind of job down there
even if it's no more than interviewing people for
maybe jobs in the department or whatnot,
because I can do interviewing and whatnot.
- So you're forgetting about this memo?
- If Mr. Sullivan wants to speak to me, you know,
you can tell him that this came through
and that Miss Hightell would like to see him
in reference to this memo.
Before I have to resort to grievance machinery.
- Listen, I didn't hear anything further
on Frank Curtis Rossa.
Because he was going to legal aid
or, one or the other.
So if you should get a call,
the big question is, who is he?
- Getting assistance under phony names.
- Three different names.
We don't know, and each one uses the other
as the landlord in the particular case,
so if he's being evicted, who is evicting who?
- I spoke to the investing officer.
- He's evicting himself.
- We had him arrested the other day.
He had a record a mile long.
- Yeah, he had a big record.
- Big record.
You know, he doesn't fear getting busted.
He doesn't fear getting busted.
- No.
All these guys.
It's a normal routine of things.
They're not excited about it.
- He was excited about it.
- Nah, it doesn't bother them.
They're accustomed to it.
Anyway, I'm only letting you know this.
The case the other day, you should get a call.
But the big problem is, who is who?
We don't know who the man is,
we don't know that he...
- Well I called out Jack Williams
and he answered to Jack Williams.
- All right.
Now it's Curtis Rossa.
There's another guy, Jack Haiga.
Well this is why I put it in each record.
Besides, we don't have the record of this one.
- Now hold on, Jack, Jack.
He answered, you know, and he came over.
- Anyway, this attorney has all the records anyway, so,
We take no action until this is disposed of by the court.
- How stupid can he be to come in today?
Over here, he knows the...
- They have hutzpah to the end.
- You knocked him up and he still came in again
for his welfare check.
- What's he got to lose?
- Unbelievable.
I'll see you.
- I was here Friday, I was too late for this,
and she told me to come back to get
for tomorrow maybe.
It was too late to go upstairs, they were closed.
- It's on Thursday.
- It was Friday.
- No, you're supposed to get it in the mail.
You were supposed to bring it to me this morning, Mister.
I'll give you one for tomorrow.
- That's what you said on Friday.
- That is my food block, right?
- That's correct.
- I get $42 for food, okay?
Now if...
Is that all the money I'm gonna get?
- That's correct, they will not pay the rent.
- That's it?
All right.
Now when it goes to getting my...
- Unemployment.
- Yeah, unemployment.
- They take that into account.
- Are they gonna deduct that figure?
- Yes, yes.
- They're gonna deduct.
- In other words, if you get $25 a week unemployment,
which is the minimum, that's $50 every two weeks,
which is in excess of our budget,
in which case they would close your case immediately.
- So the maximum allotment I can get approximately right now
from you coupled with unemployment
is about $50 a week.
As you see it?
- No, less.
No no no no no.
- I'm trying to find out the figure that I get.
- They won't pay this rent.
See, in the event that you were to find an apartment
for $150...
- Wait a minute, wait a minute, okay.
Now all I care about is
if I had $150 instead of $175,
you're telling me they would pay it?
- Right, okay, let's assume it was $150.
- All right, now.
Because they won't consider,
they won't put a maximum limit on that and say
ah, this is, you know,
we will treat this as $150 and the rest she has to make up.
- They can't do that, that's all.
- Well then what am I supposed to...
I'm supposed to relocate?
- That's correct.
This isn't my...
- That's insane, all right.
- Be that as it may, that's, okay...
- I want to find out how I get
that maximum allotment for $150.
- You would have to live an apartment for $150.
They will not allow you to live in an apartment for more
and only pay partial.
That's not legal.
That's, you know, this is the city or actually state will,
they allow only a certain amount per person.
- How do you contest it?
- You file for a fair hearing.
- Okay.
That's insane.
- So your beef is not with me, the beef is with the law.
Now the law that I'm citing you, that I'm telling you,
is that the rent allotment
for one person
may not exceed $150.
This is state law, and this is what your beef is,
you wish to either question my...
- No, I wish to get that $150, period.
- Then you would have to go and, you know,
that's what it is.
Your contention is you're entitled to that,
you're willing to make up the difference.
- Yeah.
- And what I'm contending is that
it's not, you know, they're not gonna go for that,
you can ask them, that's what they're there for.
Okay?
- I don't know.
Well, it just seems if you work
and if your rent is over a certain amount,
you have the problem.
- Established in 1937.
Ain't a thing but old charity.
- What?
- Thanks a lot.
- It has to be the sixth.
Okay?
- Thank you.
- Okay, you're welcome.
I don't know.
- 26.
- You don't have no place to live?
- No, I have no place to live.
That's why I'm here by the welfare now,
to see that I get me a place to live
so I can live like a decent human being, you know?
Not because I feel like I have a right to.
But I think when you be in this country,
I think you have a right to
if you're American or they're not.
And I believe in that, you know.
I think this country is a good country
who really would like to help, you know?
But right now they don't know about me.
So I have to go there and find out,
because when you got here on a plane,
they not declare you for crazy,
but eh, you never can tell with the doctors
what they might find, you know.
I mean I don't
knife and the ax, you know?
I'm not that crazy yet.
But I'm a nice guy, you know.
I just want to be in the fairly good conditions
like any person has the right to, you know.
So.
Although if they don't like me anymore,
I guess they have to send me back to Germany.
But I don't think they will do that,
because I am too long in this country.
So.
So they don't want to send me to Germany,
and they don't me to give any here.
See.
I think I better look for a nice tree to hang.
That must be a nice good hanging place, you know?
But it's got a little short down in here
when you're getting any air.
Oh oh, that's.
- But that'll only last for a few moments
if you choose that way.
- Mm, well, it'll only last for a few moments,
but it takes a long time to be down there and dead.
- Oh sure, a long time...
- You never come up there.
You never come back again.
You'll just be down there forever,
and that's the way that goes.
And I guess everybody has that luck too.
I think so.
I'm positively sure of it.
'Cause everybody has to die, you know?
There's nothing you or me can do about it.
It just comes around.
'Cause see god is not a man like the social service,
you know?
He doesn't come around and say well, this man is poor,
let's give him a couple of hundred bucks.
No, he only helps you when he feels like,
and sometimes, he...
- Sometimes he does.
- He wants you to die too, oh yeah,
and there's nothing you can do about it
because he is god, he made the human being, right?
And he can do what he feels like, you know?
And there's nothing anybody can do about it.
Even Jesus Christ, you know?
You ask him, he would say well,
you're not, you have to die,
because you cannot fool around with god that much.
You have to be all the time good.
Well, once in a while you can be bad and he forgive you.
- Once in a while.
- Oh yeah, he forgive you, you know?
But you better not do something real bad.
Then he says all right,
down in hell you go, and you never come back.
- But you've been a pretty good man, haven't you?
- Well, but right now when you ask me...
- You wonder.
- How do you feel in your head?
I said well, I don't feel like going to a nut house,
but I wish I could see a doctor.
Maybe I could go to a hospital.
- Maybe welfare can help you see a doctor.
- Yeah, maybe they'll send me to a hospital, you know,
and I get treated by a doctor, you know?
Maybe it is something wrong from an accident I had,
you know?
I don't know.
I just walk around.
One time I went downtown, I blacked out.
- You walked all the way downtown?
- They stole from me $50, two packs of cigarettes,
my driver's license, everything is gone.
The only proof I have is
my passport from Germany,
that's all what they could really get.
But I got an American license in there too.
- And how old is your passport?
I imagine it's...
- Oh, it's still good until '76.
- Until '76.
- Yeah.
- Antonio Sanchez.
- Constance Jackson, Constance Jackson.
Jackson.
Franciso Supilvia.
- Lilian?
Mary Corman.
Mary Corman.
Check it Miss Corman to see if it's correct.
Because she's pregnant doesn't mean
she automatically gets welfare,
she has to answer a few questions,
and that's what was happening when she got up and left.
- But she's been pregnant since, see, since October of...
Somewhere along the line, either Waverly or lower Manhattan
or not understanding the problem.
The immediate problem for her is food for her baby, right?
- If she's eligible, she has to be eligible,
and we want a few questions answered,
and in the middle of the interview she got up and left.
Now what do you want me to do?
- I want you to give her food for her baby, right?
- She has to be eligible before she gets food for the baby.
- But she is eligible, she showed you a prenatal form.
- Okay, so someone is pregnant,
they just come into welfare and get money?
Is that in the rulebook now?
I must be missing something, 'cause I've never seen it.
- Well you show me in writing,
you show me in writing that she's not eligible,
why isn't she eligible?
- Who's showed you in writing that she's not eligible?
- What?
- What are you talking about,
what do you mean she's not eligible?
- You say that she's ineligible,
you show me why she's not eligible.
- Said she was being asked a few questions,
and in the middle of the interview...
- About her husband?
That's secondary, about her husband.
- Do you have a complaint?
- I have a complaint, yes.
- Well what do you want to do about it?
- Well what I want to do, if you can't answer for me,
I want somebody that can answer it for me, why you can't...
- Apply and be interviewed,
if she's willing to come back she'll be interviewed again.
- But why wasn't the interview finished?
- 'Cause she got up and left in the middle of the interview.
- Because you were asking her about her husband.
She wants food for her baby, right?
- The baby's not even born, how's the baby gonna eat?
- She needs food and she needs a layout and so forth.
According to the rules and regulations that I know of,
the first thing that's primary
is getting food for her baby, right?
Secondary is finding out about the husband,
as far as I'm concerned/
- Why...
- Now if you can't answer it, can you direct me
to somebody that can help her?
- Does the client want to be interviewed again?
- Well she'll have to wait until this worker's
able to call her again.
- Oh by the way, another thing happened,
on Friday she just saw her come in on Friday,
I came down here in person and got an interview for her,
and when she came in on Friday she was turned away,
she was turned away.
- In person and got an interview for her?
Was it...
- I came down here and I talked to the people at the desk
and they said that they would interview her on Friday.
She came in on Friday, they said we can't interview
because we're working on charts.
- Well this is the first time you've...
- I don't put clients through a hoop.
What?
- Are you assuming that we are?
- I assume that you are if you're interviewing her
and torturing her by asking about her husband and so forth...
- I don't think that's torture.
- I think it is.
- Oh.
Well I don't think it's torture to ask somebody...
- Well close to it, anyway.
But anyways, will you see her today?
- Why don't you have a seat in the waiting area
and when she's finished whatever she's doing,
and when she has nobody else to call,
she'll call her again,
but she's gotta go through all these slips.
'Cause she left in the middle of her interview.
When she's finished with all these slips
she'll then call the client back, okay?
- You know, keep as firm as you can,
and I'll try to find out, I'm gonna try to get
a social worker to call downtown
to find out what's happening,
because yours is a special case,
you're the first case that I know of
in which you're in the federal system
and you're pregnant and you're gonna have a baby, you know,
and somewhere along the line,
you have to receive money for that unborn child,
and in the past, ADC mothers were given
allowances four months after they're pregnant.
Now you're being denied this,
and I want to find out the reason why.
So just be a little calm and if they come up to you
and say that they can't do anything for you today,
come up and see me, and meanwhile I'll try calling
the prenatal clinic at...
- I think you're too late because they went to lunch
and like she's taking a long time,
she's got about six to eight people before she's, you know,
call me again.
And that'll be around 4:00.
- Well I'm gonna call Mr. Ing again and find out
what we can get you, you know, a little ahead of time.
Try to be patient, okay?
And I'll do my best.
- All right, thank you very much.
- You're welcome.
- Hello.
Could Mr. Shupulski be seen there by our clients
to change the lease?
The client is Massandra Oppelheim.
All right, this is the problem,
Mrs. Rivera is the tenant that you have,
but Mrs. Rivera moved out October,
and our client is saying that her husband
from whom she's separated
got the apartment from his sister,
the landlord has not been informed of this,
I'm calling to inform him
and ask him if he'll put the lease in the name of Oppenheim.
I know this, but I'm asking you,
if I send her there can these arrangements be made?
- When is your appointment for Manpower
to get a physical examination?
- On the 20th.
- On the 20th.
- Of next month.
From here to then...
- When did you lose your job?
- About three days, two days ago,
she told me don't want to use me anymore.
She told me she's tired of me...
- In other words your situation has changed
since the last time you came here.
- Oh god, has it changed.
- Well then what do you think,
we're magic, that we guess at what your problems are?
- No, it's not the idea of you guessing,
it's the idea that you verbally promised my wife,
you told my wife don't worry, go home with your husband,
we're gonna give...
We're gonna send you a check by that amount
so you can be able to eat and this until you go to Manpower.
Now I turn around...
- Does the wife have an application?
- I don't know whether we checked it out.
- Check it out.
- We'll have to give an appointment for the interview today.
Give this fellow an appointment
for the interview group today.
No no, all right, all right.
Give him one now, because he's supposed to
see the interview group.
She'll give you an appointment.
Let me go over and talk to Elaine about it.
- Okay.
- You didn't get any part of your check?
Not the probation check either?
- When did he last get paid?
- I don't know, but you better call up the landlord
and find out whether this is actually so.
He said he lost it two or three days ago.
- Well he's not supposed to get paid until the 10th.
That's what she said...
- Well you better call up the landlord
and find out what it is
because if he doesn't have anything,
we'll have to give him something.
- And then Miss Robinson had called about that case
and I was going to...
- She mention it was my office?
- No.
- Well it's very strange that the social worker
didn't mention over the phone that he was laid off.
- Well, you better check it out anyway, because...
- Well, he has to be seen right now,
meanwhile I only have two or three workers in,
I need some workers.
And also she's leaving in half a day,
she's gotta go to disaster training or something.
- Who has to go to disaster training?
- Roz.
- What kind of disaster training?
- You know the thing where you go
every six months or something
in case there's a fire, flood or something.
- Well, we'll keep her here today,
she can find out some other time.
Well who does she have to go to see disaster...
- Roz, excuse me.
What's this thing with disaster training?
Can you take another day?
Or is it definitely today?
- Definitely today.
- Well we can't release her today.
- It's...
- Boy, look at this book.
- I'm telling you, it's a whole thing.
- That's for disaster training?
- Yeah, here, I got notes, I got
in case of disaster, I man the telephones,
we have artificial telephone calls
coming in from central office.
I swear, we answer it, and we have to go back and...
- How long do you have to be there?
- All afternoon.
I go twice a year.
Yeah, they sent...
December 14, '72, and today is February 4th.
And the last time I went was February '72, twice a year.
- Look, is he...
Is Arcardia Rivera here or just the wife?
- He's here.
- Did he keep his Manpower appointment?
He gets no money until...
- No, he's not going there until the 20th.
But you better check him out anyway, just to make sure.
- So what do I do with this?
- We need some more workers.
Frank Farkas hasn't called in.
- Frank Farkas hasn't called, all right,
we'll try to get Petey Barry.
- All right.
- Oh, I have notes, I have...
- We'll get Peter Barry and let's see, who else...
- How about Larry Janice?
- How about Larry Janice, all right.
I'll see if I can get him.
- Suderman Ally.
Miss Ally, you're gonna have to go back
to Waverly Welfare Center, we're very sorry,
it was a mistake.
Take this message back.
- He's legally responsible
to take care of the children.
- We know that.
- And her, as long as she's married.
- Yes.
That's why she got.
She's got another time but he didn't show up.
- It has to be in the court's hands
as long as he's getting income
and then he's not using it while he's in the hospital,
it's for the children, it's for the use of his children.
- What is the alternative, what's she gonna do?
Take the check from him
if he don't want to give them to her?
What's the alternative, she's been to court.
- When did they go to court?
- Yesterday.
- We went yesterday and went last week.
- What did the court say?
- He didn't show up, they sent out a warrant for him.
- Well he's in the hospital.
- Well what do you want her to do if he don't show up?
And he got the checks and won't give them to her.
- The only thing I can suggest is that,
I talked to the application supervisor and she said
if you feel you've been treated...
- Of course we feel, why do you think we're back here now?
- You have to apply for a fair hearing.
- Oh, in the meantime, what they gonna do
with a fair hearing, what they gonna do, starve to death?
He's in the hospital, she's sick,
she got diabetes, she got arthritis, she got heart trouble.
What is she supposed to do
while she waiting for a fair hearing?
Since November I've been running around with this woman.
- You know, you're making it sound
like it's my fault.
I'm telling you...
- Well it's not my fault either.
It's not his fault he's in the hospital.
It's not her fault she's sick.
Whose fault is it?
- I'm telling you what they're telling me,
they have...
- Who is responsible for her?
If her husband is sick, he's in the hospital,
and she's...
- He's getting disability payments from the union.
- Can she take the checks from him?
- He is legally responsible for her security.
- That's why she take him to court,
because he's not taking care of his legal responsibilities.
- It's in the hands of the court.
- The court sent her here.
I have a letter from the court telling her to come here.
- Well now this is before the case was rejected,
the case was rejected on the 24th,
and this was given to her...
- That's the day I came here.
- When you rejected her she had this letter.
- And told me to go here, social security,
and that's where I went.
- She went to social security,
social security sent her back here.
They're gonna take care of her.
- Well social security is evaluating her application,
that's a different thing altogether.
- Okay, so meanwhile who is responsible for her?
- Mr. Gaskin.
- He's in the hospital, as you very well know.
- I understand he's in the hospital.
- Now what is she supposed to do?
- Checks are coming...
- Go down there and take checks that don't belong to her?
They belong to him.
- He has a responsibility...
- He don't want to give them to her.
We're going into a vicious cycle again,
and I'm getting tired of it.
- Well, as I said before,
you'd have to apply for a fair hearing.
- Oh, and how long is a fair hearing gonna take,
and what's she gonna do in the meanwhile,
while she's waiting for the fair hearing?
She's been coming here since November.
- Well it's her responsibility to try to get...
- What do you think she's trying to do?
Why do you think she's going to court?
- You keep shouting at me and you don't...
- You're sending me around into a vicious cycle,
I'm trying to tell you her hands are tied.
- I'm not sending you...
- She is sick, he is sick, who is gonna take care of them?
- I am not sending you anywhere.
- You're telling me now to wait for a fair hearing,
what's she gonna do in the meanwhile?
- Well, you have to ask
the application supervisor to re-entertain the application.
- What do you think I'm here for now?
Why am I talking to you now for this?
- You're shouting at me.
- I'm gonna do more shouting if you don't stop this.
Ever since November.
You talking about shouting,
I've been trying to take care of this woman,
what do you want from me?
Sending us around all over to these different places
and they sending us back around in circles.
- Where are you supposed to go?
- That's what I want to know, she said go to court,
she went to court.
Go to social security, they sent her back here.
They up there sitting on their behinds upstairs,
that's why they can't do nothing for nobody.
Have you sitting here all damn day,
and then sending you all around the courts
and the courts send you here.
She refused you.
- It doesn't mean she's getting any, and she's got a point.
She did go to court, she's got proof in her hand
that she went to court.
So that's why I'm suggesting
you re-entertain the application.
- Okay, however, we want to know,
we didn't know where she's even living
at the present time.
- Well that you evaluate...
- And I think she's living uptown.
- She may very well be living uptown,
but you don't know until you interview her
and ascertain her whereabouts.
- Well, she's paying rent, is she paying rent now?
- You can check through the court
what address she applied from.
- Yeah.
What is it, $87 she's getting a week?
- No, it's in his name, it's a union benefit.
- Right.
- In his name.
- But if he is hospitalized,
why isn't she getting that money?
- It's not, see we cannot tell him,
the court's telling him to give it.
- Yeah, but we want to call up the social worker.
You have a seat that side, please.
- We're discussing it, Miss Casker,
just wait outside over there.
- Excuse me?
- I told you that wasn't the same daughter.
- Send her back home to what?
- All right, do we have to call the hospital to find out
if he actually is hospitalized?
- No, the only place I called was the union.
- All right.
- But see the check is in his name.
- Yeah, however, if he's hospitalized all the time,
where are those checks going
and who is cashing those checks?
- If he's coming home on weekends, he may be...
We don't know.
- Did we verify that he's coming home on weekends?
- That's what she said and I didn't verify a thing,
I just got to her this morning, she stormed on my upstairs.
- On the fourth floor?
- The daughter?
- Yeah, the daughter.
- The money is in his name,
if it was in her name it would be different.
- No, if it's in his name,
he is responsible for his wife and his children.
- He is, but that's why she went to the court,
because he's not giving her a penny.
She has the slip from the court.
- All right, tell her to get a slip desk.
- Now they're telling me to go to work
while I got a letter from the doctor
saying I'm not supposed to be working.
- And went and tore your letter up?
- And she went and tore the letter yesterday.
- Another letter.
- Ask the supervisor.
- Get another letter.
Letter in an envelope.
- Yeah, I'm gonna get another one,
the doctor told me to pick one up today, yeah.
- My father is sick.
He's in the hospital since November,
I been running back and forth with this woman for months,
but they send us back in a circle,
we go to court, from the court to the hospital,
from the hospital to social security to welfare
back to social security to the hospital to the court,
she don't have one dime,
and we're all suffering trying to take care of her.
You know when you try to help yourself,
they don't help you at all.
- And what they do is give me a runaround too.
- That's how it is, that's just the whole damn system.
When you try to help yourself, nobody helps you.
- Not only that, but then if I come around
and then she comes to tear the letter
and I beat the brains out of her, then I got to jail.
- Then you gonna go to jail, and then where's your wife?
Right back in the circle again.
- No, and then they gotta help her
whether they like it or not.
- Well I guess that's what you gotta do.
You gotta do it, you gotta do it.
- That's what I'm gonna have to do.
- I gotta come here with my mother,
I got children I gotta take care of,
all my family got children.
My mother is a woman that had 15 children.
She took care of every one of them.
My father worked like a slave.
He's sick, he's gotta go through this?
I gotta go through this?
No.
Somebody gonna do something for her.
And I'm not gonna leave here
and I'm not gonna go not one more day,
because I am tired and she's tired,
and we got the kids out of school,
they don't even have no shoes.
What do they want from us?
I know you're tired because I am, and I'm just...
- The welfare department
is actually the New York runaround.
- You better believe it 'cause that's all you gonna get
is a runaround.
Did you go upstairs?
- No, I don't go upstairs.
- You'll go up thee one day.
- Sometimes they don't even allow us
to be on certain points.
- They get angry with you because
you're interrupting their coffee break.
I made the mistake of interrupting their coffee break
one day when I went there.
I I said then.
You know and they tell me come back tomorrow morning.
- Stop kicking.
Stop kicking.
You stop kicking.
You stop kicking, you stop kicking.
- Yeah, she lives in,
she's here on a temporary basis
because her husband works here in New York,
but she lives in North Carolina.
Her husband lives in New York, that's why.
- Excuse me please.
Miss Silver, would you...
I asked Mrs. Gaskin for proof that she's living
at 89 Lancomo, she has...
- This is a housing project?
What address did you give the court as your home address?
- The Liliville address.
- How long were you in North Carolina?
- I'm not here to stay, I'm only here on a temporary basis.
- Then why are you even in New York?
- Because I'm sick, I've been, wait a minute, wait a minute.
When I was living here, let me explain it to you.
-, Mrs. Gaskin?
- Three years ago, yes.
- All right.
So for the last three years, you've been living
in North Carolina?
- Yes, but I've been,
you can verify it.
- In the first part of November.
- Came back the first part of November.
Why'd you come back to New York?
- I had to come to the doctor, and when I came here...
- This is the only doctor that can take care of you?
- That's the only doctor...
- And what do you suffer from?
- Don't you see it on there?
- Diabetes, I mean no other doctor in North Carolina
can take care of you?
- Well it was too expensive.
- Do you mind if I explain it...
- No, I do mind.
You mean you came all the way back to New York
to go to Nina Health Clinic
because there's no other doctor?
- I'm trying to tell her now.
The reason why I went to North Carolina to live,
we were living in the housing projects...
- In New York.
- Yes, my husband was working,
every time he got a raise, they wanted a raise,
so he decided he wanted me to move.
- He decided what?
- He wanted her to move.
- So in order to move down there,
he had to go to the VA,
the VA lent him money to buy his house.
- Was VA welfare?
- I don't know, I didn't take care of that business.
- All right, he might've been on welfare
in the veterans' administration.
It's a form of welfare.
All right.
- He got money from the VA,
the VA lent him money to buy his house,
it's not paid for yet.
- Oh, to buy his house.
If you can get accepted on welfare in New York,
which I don't know, you're gonna have to sign over
that whole entire house to the department of welfare
in New York.
- It's not my house.
- You are co-owner of it, aren't you?
- My husband is the one that...
- Well you will have to sign over that house.
You'll have to bring the deed to welfare.
- I don't have the deed,
this is what I'm telling you, I don't have anything.
- You'll have to go to your husband who's hospitalized
and get the deed.
- Didn't I tell you that every time
I went to the hospital, they tells me
I'm not to bother with him?
How can I get anything if they don't let me to?
- For anybody who has a resource such as a house
or a co-op or anything like that, they must sign it over
to the department before they can get assistance,
that is considered a resource.
You have money invested in that house.
Look, I don't know too much about resources,
we've got a resource consultant, excuse me.
- You can tell her that she can sign over
a house that belongs to her husband?
- Her husband's responsible for her,
and the children have to go on...
- That's why we had to go to court.
She is very much aware of that.
She can't make him give her anything.
- We would like to see the deed,
see whose name is there...
- Then you can get it from him yourself,
he won't give her anything.
- He didn't even show up in court,
that's why I'm back here.
- She was in court yesterday with him, he did not show up.
What do you expect from her, to take the deed from him?
If he maintains that he's not gonna give her anything.
You're the one that told her
to take his checks out of the mailbox, right?
What do you want her to do?
- The interview cannot continue.
- What do you want her to do?
- I am just telling you this.
- Take money from him?
- I am not yelling
and there's no reason for you to continue yelling.
- Why should you yell?
- If you're yelling the interview will not continue.
- Why should you yell?
You're gonna tell her that she must go...
- If you continue raising your voice...
- You are telling her,
you are telling her,
she don't want to talk about it.
You see, and my voice is down.
- Come back tomorrow...
- No, I'm not gonna come back tomorrow.
You are telling her to go and break in the mailbox
and take the man's checks.
How can you tell my mother take his checks?
You see how she walks away from me?
How you gonna tell her to take his checks
out of his mailbox, when his name is on them?
He said he's not gonna take care of her,
she's taking him to court.
- My papers.
Miss.
Will you give me my papers back?
My letter, give it back to me please.
- It's easy for her, she's not gonna use this as no cop out,
after she gonna tell her to break into the mailbox
and take some checks that don't even belong to her.
And if the checks...
If the house, she told me,
if the man has got the deed to the house and he maintains it
he's not gonna give it to her,
what is she supposed to take it from him?
Huh?
I'll go up and see the what you call 'em again.
She wants some excuse to walk out of here
after she gonna tell you to break in some mailboxes
and take stuff that's not even yours.
- What she wanted me to do.
- And going to tell you, how you gonna make him
sign over a house?
Let her go over there and tell him to sign the house over.
- Well your problem is being taken care of
by the other lady that went upstairs.
- Yeah, but I want to know what's the problem with me...
- Excuse me, let me just speak, let me just speak.
His wife's is being accepted through the mail,
and he should leave the center.
He will be getting a check in the mail.
So as far as I'm concerned, this case is over with.
- All right.
Well anyway, the worker's been talking to him...
- Well the worker walked away, no.
The worker is not seeing him anymore.
- No, she didn't walk away for no reason
because I was quiet.
- She went upstairs...
- I was quiet.
- I know where my worker went.
My worker is not gonna see him anymore.
- Why don't you talk to...
Who's your supervisor down here?
Who's your supervisor down here?
- Wait, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Wait, let me just talk.
- Go over there and sit down and be cool, all right?
- Look, I am the supervisor and I know where my worker went.
The worker told the clients to leave the area.
He's walking away.
The worker asked the clients to leave the area.
The termination of the case was made,
they will get a check in the mail.
Now he is carrying on disrupting
and I would like him removed from...
- Let's take care of this problem
we're dealing with now.
- Which problem do you want to take care of first?
- The one you're having right now.
- I'm having two problems right now,
which is quite obvious.
- What she wants to do is she wants to cop out.
- Which one are you gonna deal with now?
- All right, you want to deal with these people?
- Me?
You asking me?
- Workers cannot work, and there's a whole
commotion around here.
- Let's take care of the problem
that you're doing now.
- Which problem is that?
These people?
- Whichever one you're taking here.
- Okay, these people will be interviewed
any time they want to lower their voices
and conduct the interview in a low voice.
- Now when I lowed my voice
she still insisted on walking away.
She's just using this as a cop out.
She's gonna tell my mother to go and break in a mailbox
and take some checks that don't even belong to her,
that belong to my father.
She's gonna say she wants the house, okay.
My mother don't own the house,
how can she give her the house?
- Are you finished now?
- Listen, go over there and sit down
and wait for your wife and people to come down, all right?
- Wait...
- Do you have a supervisor.
- Yeah, I'm the supervisor.
- All right,
well why don't you deal with them?
Because I'm the patrolman here.
The only thing I can do, there's an arrest to be made,
I'm here.
Otherwise social workers social workers.
- Excuse me, Mr. Val, Sergeant, whatever you are...
- No, my workers will not work
if this man sits there without an interview.
The interviewer is not coming back.
The interview is over, Miss Bale walked away.
- Listen, let's deal with what you have here.
This man is...
Go over there man, go over there and stay over there.
Let's deal with what you have no.
- Okay, this interview will continue
any time they lower their voice
and conduct the interview in a low voice.
- I lowered my voice and she still persisted...
- How long do you have to be there
to make sure somebody's voice isn't being raised?
- Who's taking care of this lady?
Nobody?
- Miss was talking to them
but they continued to cause a scene
and have a very loud voice and they're disrupting.
- When I told you that you told me...
- All right, can we try it again?
Can we try it again without any problems?
- I would like for you to at least sit in on it
because she's asking questions,
she wants my mother to sign over something
that don't belong to her.
- Excuse me, what it is, they own a house in North Carolina
and I told them the resource policy concerning it.
- If you own something.
- All right, but just a moment, just a moment.
We understand that.
It's not that my mother's not cooperating.
My mother never signed any paper.
Why don't she get it from my father?
She don't have the right to give him anything.
- Where is your father?
- In the hospital, she knows where he's at.
She knows this.
- What's the problem on the whole case?
- The problem is I asked...
I went to the hospital because my husband
was in the hospital, I asked the people at the hospital
that told me about my health,
and they told me to go to welfare.
So I didn't go to welfare, I went to court first,
they gave me a referral to come here,
when I came in Monday they told me
to go back to social security.
Social security told me, give me a referral
to come back here and said get for the children
and not for me.
They wouldn't give me...
- Because she said she can get some social security.
- Was this an ADC case for the two children, or what?
- Yes, I have two children.
- Two children?
- What's the story?
- All I know is her legal residence is North Carolina
New York 'cause she's here on a visit.
It seems to me that's the story.
- My father works here,
and he was sending her money to North Carolina,
after he took sick, after he got sick.
- And there are no doctors in North Carolina
and the only doctors that can take care
of her diabetic condition is a New York doctor,
so she came up here.
- The doctor there was too expensive.
- She's dramatizing things.
- I had a doctor there before,
but I had a doctor here, and...
- Your legal residence is in North Carolina?
- But my husband is here.
- It's yours, it's yours.
- I don't know how it's done.
- They own a house in North Carolina,
so I would assume it's a source of legal residence.
- Were they on welfare in...
- She claims no.
- She claims no, did we check it out?
- No we haven't done so as yet.
She claims that her husband was sending her checks,
and now her husband is hospitalized and can no longer
send her checks.
- He's in the hospital.
- Can he write us a letter?
- I don't know, see, when I went to the hospital...
- We'll have somebody visit him in the hospital...
- To see his social worker.
- If they will lower their voice
and continue the interview.
- All right, all right.
Let's all be quiet, let's sit down,
let's see if we can get this show on the road.
- And you request that we lower our voices.
I request that you stop being so dramatic
and putting words into my mother's mouth
saying things she did not say.
She never told you there's no other doctor
in North Carolina, don't be like that.
- Well we're never going to get anyplace this way.
Let's continue the interview.
- All right, let's solve the other problem.
Miss Bale is not continuing that interview over there,
the determination on the case was made
and I want the patrolman removing those clients,
the man over there.
We can't remove him till 5:00.
- This waiting area is over there, I...
- We'll put him, I'll put him in the waiting area.
- Well, you...
Let's sit down and interview this client.
- Well, Bates is doing it, they go back there.
- Since I can't hear she's been giving me a hard time
because she just don't like me, I guess.
This is the first time I come here and even yelling.
Women here three, since October I've been
going back and forth, and they've been giving me
the same rap.
Bring another letter, so I bring another letter.
That's not the one, bring this one, so I bring that one.
- You've got the runaround since October,
we've only seen you this month, right?
So obviously other people are giving you runarounds.
- Yeah.
- It's very strange,
everybody's giving you runarounds.
You were in another center, you were in Waverly.
- I was over here, and they closed my case...
- All right, I'll tell you something.
See all centers work the same and all centers want proof,
they just don't hand out money.
And we're not the only center who does it.
- I got all the proof you want here.
- Every center works by certain rules
and regulations and procedures.
And when you come in to us, we all work the same way.
The other center that gave you runaround
since September or October,
and now you think we're giving you the runaround,
but we're only working in the same way
that they are working.
Okay.
This is it.
Okay, I...
- Because you're not bringing the information we need.
That doesn't mean...
- May I ask you something, you said that my sponsor
is legally for me, well he's my guardian, right?
- Your sponsor is more responsible for you
than welfare is, and we like to have contact with him
before we give you money.
- Then why is it that when my sponsor,
I could not get permission to marry with my sponsor?
- Yeah, you tell us that.
- If he's responsible for me, why couldn't...
- I don't know, I'm not a marriage counselor,
I don't know anything about marriages or anything like that.
I know about welfare.
- How long you think it'll take us to get help?
At least, man.
This is...
- We've accepted your case now.
I mean, you're just killing a dead horse.
- I'm just asking you because I'm tight, man.
I'm really tight for money,
I'll show you what I got in my pocket,
and what I have ate all day today since I been here,
you see?
That's what I got in my name, you understand?
That's all.
I'll pull out my wallet and I'll show you the same thing.
I don't have a dime to my name, practically.
- Get a job.
- Yeah, you want to help me get a job?
- That's your only vocabulary, get a job,
to everybody that comes in here.
- What about the letter the doctor sent you?
That said that I wasn't able to go to work
because I have to be rehabilitated?
- Inconclusive doctor's statement.
That's why we're giving you a medical examination.
- You are really inconclusive.
All I wanted to do is get help until I get on my feet,
and believe me, I wouldn't be here after you.
Man, I wish I were by myself now.
- If you were by yourself she'd gladly help you.
- Of course, if I were by myself she might just do that,
help me then.
I'm a man, am I?
Now sir, what do you suggest, I go home of course.
- We're accepting her case.
Let's leave it at that.
Let's not bring it any further, let's not quarrel about it,
the fact is her case is being accepted,
we're not refusing it.
But there were certain other items
like the letter from her uncle that we need.
That's all there is to it.
- Okay, then for the bills that I got,
all the doctor bills, what I'll do, I just hold onto them?
I got plenty of bills, sir.
- Right now there's nothing much we can do about your bills
until we find out whether you're eligible or not.
She's eligible.
- But the meantime is that since October,
I've been, you know what I've been doing?
I have to sell my medication, my medicine, you understand?
And I'm not about to go to jail for nobody anymore,
you understand?
- Right, right.
- That's what they're gonna make me do here.
- That's up to you.
I mean, the path you take is up to you.
We've accepted her.
Now if the situation changes and we accept you,
that's a different story, but right now...
- Hold up, I really, all I want right now
is concerned that I get something to help her,
you understand?
- We're not accepting your case,
we can't give you a Medicaid card.
- If you accept her now you can give her
a Medicaid card.
Not me.
- She's getting a Medicaid card.
She'll get one.
- Okay.
Okay.
That's settled then.
Then I'll go home.
- Okay now.
- Thank you.
- All right.
- No, we can't give you an appointment, it's too late.
You have to come back tomorrow.
Right?
I said I don't have any money, I got 10 cents,
my rent is due tomorrow, I have nothing to live on.
I haven't eaten for three days.
- You just told me you had a ripped off Corvette.
- I got caught ripping off Corvettes
for $110 worth of stuff.
- And they let you go, right?
- That's right, I spent two hours explaining
how I ripped off the other four stores
over the last six months.
- And you just ripped off...
You said you ripped off Woolworth last night.
- Today.
Seven bars of chocolate.
- Seven bars of chocolate.
- I ate three and I gave four away.
- And you believe it's right to steal, right?
No.
Absolutely wrong.
Absolutely wrong to steal.
- You just told me before.
- Did I say it was right?
I said it was necessary.
There's a difference between right and necessary.
- Why's it necessary?
- Because I don't have the money to buy
what I have to steal, because the social service department
doesn't see fit, or the Social Security Administration
doesn't see fit to give me enough money to live on.
- You're a social security case now.
- Yeah.
- So why do you come to welfare?
- They sent me.
With a referral slip.
Which was stolen last night along with $1 billion worth
of original research that I've been working on
for three years.
Psychic research.
Mind control research.
In a red folder.
Stuff that it was hand written.
- Why don't you go downstairs, make an appointment,
do what's right, make an appointment with legal people.
- For tomorrow.
- Yeah, do what's right.
- What do I do for tonight?
What do I do for rent money?
What do I do for food money?
I haven't eaten in three days now.
Except what I steal.
Except what I steal, I can't steal a chicken.
I can't steal a steak, it doesn't fit in my pocket.
I can only steal Hershey bars,
and cheap packages of cheese,
and you know, cans of fruit.
- Mr. Hirsch, there's nothing we can do for you.
- I know.
- Nothing we can do, I'm sorry.
- I know you can't.
Social security can't because I'm over the maximum.
You can't because it's too late.
- You received a check from us recently.
- No, I didn't, it was sent back.
$147.35.
I never got it.
It was sent to the hotel I was at,
but I had to check out because I didn't get it on the 16th.
It came on the 18th, and I wasn't there anymore
because I didn't have the money for the rent.
So the manager sent it back on the 19th,
and then Mr. Vagen for some reason
sent me to social security, I don't know why.
Without any money.
Without ever seeing that check.
- It's my understanding you received a check.
- I never received any check.
- Then discuss it with Mr. Vagen, don't discuss it with me.
- Where's Mr. Vagen?
- He'll be here shortly.
Have a wait outside.
- Yeah, why not?
I'll wait.
I've been waiting for the last 124 days
since I got out of the hospital.
Waiting for something.
Gadot?
I mean you know what happens in the story of Gadot,
he never came.
That's what I'm waiting for, something that'll never come.
Equity, justice.
Justice.
Under this great democratic society of ours
where everybody is equal under the law, you know.
Lincoln said that, didn't he?
All men are created equal?
Lincoln never took an army physical, you know.
You should know that.
Equal, what's equality?
Equality is when somebody has and somebody hasn't,
and the one that hasn't tries to rip off the one that has.
And the one that has tries to keep what he's got.
And there's nothing in the middle anymore.
You either have it or you don't have it.
You know.
It's not a matter of middle, you know,
there's no middle class anymore,
there's just the rich and the poor.
And I'm one of the poor.
In fact destitute, not poor.
And I don't like the feeling.
Not with 22 years of education behind me.
Not with 17 years of service to this state.
Not with a $23,000 plus income when I was working.
Plus my private practice which brought in
another three or four thousand.
No, but after being in the hospital
for seven months and eight days up until September,
and not being considered fit to go back to work,
and having to resign rather than be fired...
- Sit outside now.
- I only got another 11 days to go
until they fire me from that 17 year job.
- Go and sit down.
- You're the law, man.
You're the man.
Everybody's the man when you don't have anything.
Everybody's the boss.
If it doesn't change in the next 15 years by 1988,
there will be no United States of America,
there will be nobody here worth saving.
Everybody who was worth saving will be someplace else,
and I'll be the first to leave.
Because for 40 years and seven months I've tried.
God knows I've tried to help.
Now I can't even help myself, let alone anybody else.
How can you help anybody on 11 cents?
Five days.
Lord, I don't know, but you still don't want me to live.
You still don't want me to do anything that I want to do.
Still want me to do your thing.
And suffer.
I gotta suffer for everybody else who's gone before.
Okay, if that's what you want,
that's the way it's gonna be.
We've had this agreement for a while now.
I'm not backing down.
If you want to that's your business.
I'll stay with it until it's over.
Whenever that is.
And if you don't want me to eat,
if you don't want me to sleep,
if you don't want me to work,
I won't.
And if you want me to keep wandering
the way we've been wandering for 5735 years
I'll keep wandering.
You know that doesn't bother me.
Even if there's no one, no one in this whole world
that listens to me, I'll wander.
Until you're ready to decide where I belong.
A place, a home.
People, friends.
Whenever that'll be.
I got all the time in the world.
And thank god all the patience.
And the strength, and the understanding.
Thank you.
Okay, that's it.
You can have a seat, okay?
Okay, just have a seat.
Okay, Mr. Hamilton, just have a seat.
Hold your head straight, dear.
Okay, have a seat.
Okay sir, just have a seat.
Okay.
Have a seat.
- Have a seat.
- Okay, just have a seat, please.
Okay, have a seat.
Mr. Wills, would you mind removing your hat, please?
Okay, fine.
Okay, have a seat, please.
- 3A.
- Alexander Coswell.
- 4C.
- Indian people here don't like here, you know?
I'm gonna fight you for Oklahoma, you know.
Don't wanna give you nothing because I'm a Indian.
What's happened to the Indian people, you know?
What's happened?
You don't good, not good?
I'm a human being like anybody,
like a white or black or something like that.
I'm human, I'm a human, you understand?
They don't want to help you, you know,
they don't want me helping.
'Cause I'm an Indian people, you know?
I see too many Indian people in this country, you know,
in New York.
You got in Washington, you know?
I take it all from there,
because in there like camp,
a concentration camp.
You taken all my land, you know,
and push me on a reservation like a jail.
You know?
And now he don't dig it too much.
He don't dig it.
The government, they don't like the Indian people.
You understand?
It preys on the Indian people, you know?
Every time I go he say, you Indian?
Get outta here!
I don't want you Indian...
That's not good.
You know that is not good.
Because you know if you suppose I'm a human being, you know?
Like you, like any people, you know.
Yes ma'am.
- I called 39 Broadway.
- Okay ma'am.
- So far as we know, they have made no provisions
to issue ID cards to their claimants.
- Right, that's right, thank you.
- But on the other hand, welfare cannot give you one either
because you're not on our rolls.
The best thing for you to do when you get your check
is go to a check cashing place
or maybe a landlord will cash it.
Keep going to SSI until they come up with some ID
so that you'll be able to cash your check.
But sir, sir, we cannot give it to you,
because your checks don't come from us.
Your check does not come from us,
so we cannot give you an ID card.
You go in with an ID card from one department
and you get your check from another department,
it's not gonna help you.
- I know, but I need the picture for change my check.
- No, I'm sorry, they won't give it to you.
You have to get it from them...
- Yeah, listen man.
You know, I just go in yesterday
and you know, walk in because I ain't got no money.
I walk in all the way up from Broadway
and I explain my situation.
He said they don't give you a Medicaid card there
and he don't give you ID card there, you know?
He said go to 40th Street,
maybe you can solution your case.
I need help.
- Nevertheless, this is a problem
that you have to take up with them,
Waverly's no longer responsible.
- But what can I do now for check my check?
- You've got your check, you have your check in your pocket?
- You know, I just tried it, you know.
To get the picture because...
- I explained to you several times
that we cannot give it to you, I'm sorry.
- Right, I know.
You know, so my check come, and the check come in...
- Take it to a check cashing place.
- Yes, but I ain't got no ID card, you don't give it to me,
good lady.
- Keep going to 39 Broadway and tell them
you're having difficulty cashing your check
and you need some kind of ID.
- I just said I tell him yesterday,
tell him I supposed to get a picture, because you know,
he don't give it to me, he don't want to give it to me.
- I'm sorry, Waverly can't either,
Waverly's not responsible.
- So I supposed...
You lose my ear.
- Oh, thank you.
- Yeah, so you know, what I can do now?
Explain the situation again?
Okay, thank you very much, young lady.
- So you were out of the apartment in November?
- That's right.
- November 28th.
- Novembers 28th, and then you went...
Over here it says you went to the halfway house
December 27th, that's a month later.
- Yeah.
- Okay...
- We were staying...
- No what's she's saying is what did you do
from November 28th to...
- December 27th, where were you?
- Well, I was in and out of jail.
It was like one day at a time,
like they would, you know...
- It says you were only in jail for one day.
- I know that, but previous to that too,
you know, like it was, they just...
We went into restaurants
and we were just eating and not paying our bill
because we didn't have any money.
So they picked us up, you know, like on that,
and we'd spend the night in jail or something,
and then they released us out into the street again.
- And we were staying in...
We were staying with a friend of mine.
- When you worked for the department,
you know, you were making good money.
- That's right.
Like I stayed in each position for about a year
or a year and half, I kept taking service exams.
That's how I got promoted.
I started as a grade three
and then I went to supervising clerk,
then I became.
- See we haven't...
- It's been a year, two years,.
- We haven't got your accounts, right?
We just got the letter from the bank saying that
your accounts are closed.
- He lost the passbook.
- No no, wait a minute, wait.
And then you're telling me that you only these amounts
in each account, but you were making relatively good money,
I can't understand how...
- $198 in rent was one item, okay?
- I know, I know.
- And what about for food?
We had to spend on food.
- That's right, we spent money on entertainment.
- What kinda entertainment?
- Movies.
- Movies.
- Drinking.
You know what I mean?
- How come you've never worked?
- I'm an epileptic and I can't work.
- Okay.
- We had to pay electric, yeah, and so on.
- Have you got a medical...
- I don't have any medical because my doctor...
- You have Medicaid, that's the only thing.
- Medicaid is the only thing I have.
- Are you under any medication?
- No, I don't take any medication
because the doctor told me I don't need it,
it's just that I gotta take it easy and relax
and I'm not allowed to work, I wish I could, I would work.
- They gave us the Medicaid because we, you know,
we are in a situation.
- That's right.
- Well the reason I'm asking you all these questions.
- Yeah.
- It's true you're an emergency,
so we are giving you the emergency interview.
But every aspect of your application has to be gotten into.
Okay?
Okay.
I'm surprised you asked that
being that you were a supervisor in social services.
You should know.
- Well, you know, sure, but at the moment
I'm thinking in terms of answering your questions
and of you know...
- Did you ever get social security under your fathers?
- My father I don't know, because my father is in the army
and I haven't seen him since I was six years old.
- I see.
Where's your mother?
- My mother's on Pellum Parkway,
she gave me a little money and then she told me
to go hang myself or commit suicide
and every time I contact her she hangs up the phone.
The counselor at the rehabilitation center tried
and she claimed she doesn't know me,
he tried, my sister tried,
I got money from my sister, a little bit,
and then forget it, she didn't help me
and neither did my mother,
my mother doesn't want any part of me.
I've tried calling her every single time
and she hangs up the phone,
or "go hang yourself" or "sleep in a jail."
That's why I can't get any response.
My sister's out in Stony Point,
I asked if I could stay up with her,
I can't because she works.
Her husband...
- If we could stay with relatives we would be glad to do so.
- We sure would.
I've tried my aunt who lives on 14th Street
and my grandfather's got cataracts
and he needs to stay in the house,
so I can't ask her for help.
- Did you both apply for the SSI?
- Yes we have.
- Yes, we both have.
- You both went down?
Now you're just living together, you're not married.
- No, no.
If I knew where my husband was
I wouldn't even be around here.
I don't know where he is, I haven't seen him.
I have a partial disability on my hand, I'm cerebral palsic.
I used to wear a brace.
I am epileptic too, I used to take Dilatin,
but the doctor took me off of it.
- You're legally married?
- Yes I am.
I don't know where my husband is.
- Did you ever go to court?
- No.
- Are you divorced?
- No I'm not.
- That's family court I think she's talking about.
- You know, your husband might be working,
making a very good salary.
Now he's legally responsible for you.
- Oh, I know that, don't you think if I knew where he was
I'd be going to him?
I don't know where he is.
The last time I seen him was in the summertime.
- The summer?
- That's right.
And it was late at night.
I usually would see him at night, very quick.
And he was always with me, right Larry?
You know, when you were with your wife.
Right?
- Do you have any cigarettes ma'am?
May I?
- No he sometimes, because his wife
was working in the welfare, and we'd been looking...
- You're married also?
- That's right.
- Yes ma'am.
- I know it sounds complicated.
- Did you put down that you're married?
Is your wife working?
- Is she working?
I don't know where she is.
I don't have a wife.
What do you mean telling her I have a wife for?
- Didn't you say that he has a wife?
- I thought he had a wife.
- She's my wife.
- I don't know what I'm saying.
I don't know.
Forgive me.
I don't know.
I'm sorry Larry, okay?
I don't know, I really don't know.
- Are you married or aren't you?
- To her?
No.
- Not to her.
Are you married to someone else?
- No.
- So what gave her the impression
that you were?
- Maybe it's a wish that she had, I don't know.
- Maybe it could be a wish, I don't know.
- It's hard to say.
- I haven't eaten in a couple of days
and I'm hungry and you know, I get a little excited.
So I'm sorry Larry, okay?
- I don't feel too hot either.
You know, my system is all...
- I need some food in me and sleep, I haven't slept.
- Aches in every part of me.
- All right, this is for the housing.
- Where do we bring that?
- This is on the fifth floor.
Now you have to go...
After that you have to go to employment, okay?
- Yes.
- Okay.
So...
- Have we been accepted?
- She said she's gonna house us.
- If we're gonna house you that means that
- Okay, thank you miss, I just want to be reassured,
thank you.
And then we've gotta eat because we're starving.
- So could you please go up to the housing first?
- Where's that, what floor?
- On the fifth floor, and this is on the fourth floor,
the employment is on the fourth.
- Go up there now and then we come back to you?
- Yes.
- Go to the third floor,
up to the replacement group.
The third floor.
Anna, tell her to go up to the third floor
to the replacement group.
- Okay, next?
- Who's next?
- Go on up there.
- Why are you here, dear?
- I wanted to.
- Did you get part of a check?
How much of the check did you get?
- I get 66.
66.
- How much are you supposed to get, dear?
- 115.
15.
- What do you got, one or two cats?
- I don't know, I think one.
- Who's next?
Come on people, let's move down.
Drop that in the box.
Have a seat and wait for them to call your name.
Who's next?
Come on people, move down please.
- I'm gonna drop over dead,
and they do it while I'm sleeping, they're dope addicts.
They took everything, they took all my Medicaid
and my Social Security, they took it all.
- Quick service group on the third floor.
- Okay, and here it tells you about
the supplemental security income
to the aged, blind, and disabled.
Now if you already, wait a second,
do you already recieve social security disability payments?
- Yes.
Well, I don't know, the supplemental bit,
you know, the increase or something like that?
Whatever it's supposed to be.
- Do you get money from social security?
- That's what I'm told,
see my stuff comes from the Holy Name Society,
8 East Bleaker Street.
- Oh, and...
- I get so much per day to get a room or whatever I can.
- But you get that money
from social security.
- They told me $84.50.
Now whatever it is that
- What I'm asking you
is do the people at the Holy Name, that's where you live?
- I don't live there, I just, I have to live wherever I can.
- Okay, so you'll have to go to 39 Broadway.
I want you to go back to wherever it is you stay
or wherever it is they get your papers
and show them this and tell them that we said
that you had to go to 39 Broadway, right,
that's your social security office, okay?
Because you qualify for social security, not for here.
- You have to go to Holy Name and talk to them.
- That's right.
- Yeah, show them this
and be sure they understand what we said.
- Yes.
- And then they'll direct you to 39 Broadway, okay?
- All right.
And that's before I can get on the welfare or whatever...
- They'll take care of you there.
- Yes,?
- At 39 Broadway.
- Oh.
- 39 Broadway, that's where you gotta go.
Go 39 Broadway, downtown.
- 39 Broadway.
- Yes, okay?
- Yes.
- Who's next?
Is there a next?
Want to move down?
- You got a check from social security for $100 on Friday,
and today's three days later.
- They sent me back here.
- Who sent you?
- From social security.
- You got a $100 from social security administration
on Friday.
- They sent me down here...
- Wait, Mr. Long.
Did you get a check for $100 on Friday from social security?
- $40.
- And you'll be getting...
- Two weeks, and then I had
$60 Friday for food.
- And what happened to the $60?
- For food and...
- What happened to the $60 you had on Friday?
You're covered by the federal social security program,
you're not covered by local welfare center.
- Well social security...
- You got $60 from...
- Social security and welfare
were having an argument on Friday.
- Mr. Long, if you got $60 of food money on Friday
you're expected to put it to last for a little while.
Of the $2800 you blew in two months...
- I had to pay my doctor bill, I had to pay my doctor bill.
- You should apply for Medicaid.
- I had to pay my doctor bill.
- Mr. Long, if you got $60
from social security on Friday,
you're not gonna get any money today.
- Yes, I paid my...
- The money was for food and...
- Then give me it and I'll go back to social security...
- Who's next?
Come on people, please move down.
- Miss Slompo.
You must bring us...
How many months pregnant are you?
- Five.
- You must bring us a letter from a hospital.
The doctor can write anything that he wants to.
In order qualify for public assistance,
you must bring a verification letter from a hospital.
Are you attending any clinic?
- No.
- Why not?
- I have no money.
- That is not a requirement, that's not a requisite
for you to go to a public clinic.
Go there and tell them that you don't have money,
and then they will fill out this form for you.
- All this says is verification of pregnancy.
- This is not what we want.
We wanted a doctor, there's a certain form,
if you go to a city hospital, they'll give it to you.
Now, you realize that a doctor can write
anything that he wishes, sometimes...
- Oh, yeah but, five people have seen this letter.
- Elaine, are you taking this
for verification of pregnancy?
- Yeah, there's an EGC date on it.
Signed by a doctor.
- So that, you'll take that
instead of the form from the hospital, right?
- Yeah, it's just a private doctor.
- All right, okay, it's accepted.
- Indicates to me that she may be using a loose term
broadly, very broadly.
It may not be detrimental to her.
The hospital note tends...
The letter from the hospital indicates
that there were apparently extenuating social circumstances.
It may be a question of lousy conditions.
Now the format is first a home visit according to Kay,
within 48 hours, second are phone calls
to both central agency and SSC,
and then the...
On the first sheet you'll see a nine...
I think it's a 492.
These forms, I have them there, I'll give them to you.
They have to be processed within 48 hours
of the phone calls.
- You haven't answered my question.
- What's that?
- BCW already knows about it, why do we have to notify BCW?
- Just to get a clarification on it.
Just to see exactly...
Her description of it leaves a lot open.
She describes it broadly as a child neglect or abuse.
The woman is accusing herself,
I'm pretty sure you'll find that she's using the term
without quite understanding what it means.
- Zimmerman, we're gonna take the child off the budget
because it's not with you at the moment,
and if you get the child back you let us know about it,
okay?
- Okay.
She'll be back as soon as I get another apartment,
and see that's the problem right now.
- How long have you lived in this apartment?
- About nine months.
But like there's rats and a gas leak and...
- The central registry,
they're the ones who took the complaint.
Now I don't know who made the complaint,
I think it was the hospital, woman's infirmary.
Said that you have some diseased pets in the house?
- Yes, one dog is diseased.
It's not my dog though, and it doesn't live there.
- Yes, but you can't let the child near the dog,
it doesn't matter that it's not your dog,
the dog is in the apartment,
and that has nothing to do with...
Even though the conditions of your apartment are bad
and probably you'll be able to move,
it's still a diseased dog
and they're not gonna let the child back
as long as you've got a diseased pet in there.
- No, it's not there all the time,
it's there once in a while.
It's my boyfriend's dog and he doesn't live there.
- But it only has to be there for a little while
for the child to catch something.
That's why the doctors I don't think
are going to let you have it back
until you get rid of the dog for good.
So you tell your boyfriend to come and pick it up, okay?
- Okay.
- But anyway, somebody will be visiting your house
in the future, so clean it up.
- All right.
Do you know about when?
I put in a complaint about three weeks ago
with building inspector, no one ever came,
and at housing I got a real runaround,
and nobody knew nothing about it.
It's like they say that there's no record of violations.
- No, somebody will help you.
You need a lawyer to help you with that,
you can't do it yourself.
So I'll give you the phone number of this lawyer
that works for the mobilization for you.
- Okay.
- Because you know, you don't...
- Okay.
- Here's her number, or else you can go in person
and tell her your problems.
- See I don't know why the building inspector won't come.
- They take a couple of months to come.
They're understaffed, et cetera, et cetera.
They won't come...
When I had to wait for building inspector for myself
it was a year and a half, so don't count on that.
That's why you have to go to somebody who's legal.
That way they can help you do it a lot faster.
- See because like the case worker says
that they don't want to move me
because there's no record of any violations,
and I can't live there for...
- That's why you have to put in
the violations and then you will be able to move.
You see you have to say yes, there are violations.
- I have to go to a lawyer?
Okay.
- Okay, so you have her number.
So that's okay, you can go home now.
- Okay, thank you very much.
- You had a fire, and the emergency card in August.
And you settled the emergency because you resolved it,
because you lived with your friend.
Now there are new circumstances,
now if you want to...
If you want to correct the situation
by having a new apartment,
you must make a fair hearing.
This is your only course.
You can't solve it in the...
- I don't think this is fair.
- We can't solve it in the center,
they won't give you this money.
- I don't think this is fair at all.
Something has got to be done somewhere,
because it will continue...
- Why are you so reluctant about asking for a fair hearing?
- I'm not reluctant about asking for a fair...
I am reluctant to a certain extent.
The reason why is because it's gonna take
a longer period of time.
- How do you know it's gonna take
a longer period of time?
- It takes at least three weeks for a fair hearing,
does it not?
- Yeah, but how long...
- Meanwhile my friends is moved out and where am I?
- Your friend hasn't moved out yet, has he?
- He's moving his things...
- When is he moving?
- He's in the process of moving his things.
- When is he moving?
- All things will be out within the next two days.
And I have responsibilities also.
- By the way, are you enrolled
in a rep program or any of the programs?
- Yes, I am.
- You're enrolled right now in some...
- The rep program.
- When do you start?
- Well the guy's been sending me out...
They sent me to the unemployment section,
and now the guy's been sending me out to different jobs,
and he told me to call him this week
so he could send me somewhere else.
- Are you ever enrolled in a narcotic program?
- Yes I was, I was a drug addict at one time,
but when I came out I started working
and I've got my own apartment
and from there started building on my own two feet,
and then from there I bought a dog, a great dane,
that I had responsibilities toward her.
Now I'm... being at the fire, I only had the dog left.
It's me and the dog and I had lost my job,
and y'all said y'all would give me some kind of help,
and it hasn't been done yet.
And that is another reason why
the hotel wouldn't be suitable.
I would have to get my own apartment.
- Because of the dog you mean.
- Right, because I have a dog too.
- I think there's only one course for you.
And you can go to the state and make a fair hearing,
and we'll be over there with our records, what?
- What happens meanwhile, when the guy moves out?
- He hasn't moved out yet, right?
He's still living there.
- Not completely, but within the next two days,
it takes three weeks for a fair hearing.
What do I do during that time?
- Nothing that we can do, unless you come...
You want to live in a hotel meanwhile.
- Are they gonna let me take my dog?
I'll live there.
Y'all give me furniture, clothes money...
- We're not giving assistance for your dog.
- I know, I know.
- We're concerned about you, right?
- Between the dog, me and my friend work it out.
We'll work it out between me and the dog.
- And you know the dog can stay with your friend.
- It's my dog, but I don't know.
I don't know if he wants the dog to stay, I'm not sure.
That I would have to work out with him.
Like I said, I might be able to work out
a furniture situation with him,
and the dog, I don't know.
But the fact that I came down here
was because I was told that I would have a place to go
which is an apartment,
and that is where I could take my dog and live
and work for a living.
- Where is your friend moving to?
- He's moving on the west side.
- You telling me you can't stay over with your friend?
- He told me it's too small,
the apartment is too small.
- For a day or two?
- He has his woman.
His woman is with him too.
And all along I still...
- Let me ask you, if this woman lives with him too,
you know is he still living in your apartment?
- At my apartment?
- Well he's living with you.
If this woman lives with him.
Lives with him in the present.
- Right, and he's moving some of his things,
he's in the midst of moving some of his things
to the west side.
He hasn't moved everything yet.
- But you just stated
that the woman is living with him.
- Right.
At his apartment.
- And you're living with this man.
- Uh-huh.
- So the woman is living with him,
and with you also, you're living in the same apartment.
- Right, there's three of us, plus a dog.
- Now there are three of you plus a dog.
- Right, but it's his home.
It's not mine.
It's his home.
- It gets more involved as we go along.
- It's the man's home, it's not mine.
- Now you have a dog and you have a woman and you have...
- I don't have no woman, no no.
- He has the woman.
- Well what goes on with him is not my concern.
He just lets me...
I rent part of the apartment to sleep there.
I sleep there and do what I have to do.
- Listen, do me a favor, make the fair hearing
at 488650.
- Still, I'm being rejected again.
It's still a runaround.
Thank you for your help.
- Okay.
- Not allowed to pay back due money.
You should come in on the time...
- Well the damn hearing kept me there.
I don't want to hear that.
I don't want to hear that shit at all.
You didn't feed me, he fed me.
You're supposed to send those checks.
I'm single issue, you never sent them.
You never sent them.
- You're supposed to come in for single issue checks.
We are not supposed to send you money.
- They were sent before single issue always
without a fucking problem, but now there's a problem.
- You don't have to use that kind of language.
- Well can I have today's food money, then?
- You can't have today's food money.
- Why not?
- Your date is due tomorrow.
We according to dates, I told you that already.
The best thing I can do for you
is the rent money from before that you didn't pick up,
I can give you your rent money for the 1st to the 31st.
I'll give you an appointment for tomorrow
to come in and get your food money.
- And I'll still have to stand out there
6:00 tomorrow morning.
- No, you won't have to,
because I'll give you an appointment.
- Will I still have you tomorrow?
- There's a little problem here.
Did you apply after January 1 or before?
- Before.
- You had no active case here before January 1?
- No.
- If that is true, then we can accept you for 30 days.
Until the social security department gets around
to accepting you.
- All right, well the girl...
- You have a letter from them?
- Yes, I showed it to the girl.
I don't have any of my papers with me now,
but I showed you know the interviewer downstairs
like you know, my reaction report,
I showed her the referral slip from SSI, and...
- You have that with you now?
- No, I don't have it with me now.
- Okay, all right.
- But I been coming back here every day for two weeks.
Like she says get a notarized letter for this,
a notarized letter for that.
- That's the application group.
- Yes.
- The application.
- Yes, yes.
- And so now you're here in housing,
so you must've had a referral from them to housing, right?
- Yes, because they said they only give out $160.
- That's a lot of money for rent.
- $160.
- $170.
- Yeah, they say they only give out $160.
My rent is $170, all right?
- That's difficult.
You live alone?
- Yes.
I went to the landlord, right?
The landlord is out of town, he's in Aruba,
but his attorneys here on the case gave me a letter
saying that they will deduct $10
for some burglar alarm system.
She rejected that.
So she told me if I get a letter from my mother,
a certified letter from my mother,
saying that my mother would give me the $10 a month,
I would be accepted, all right?
I got the certified letter from my mother saying...
- They can't tell you anything but...
- Saying that she will give me $10 a month
to make up the $10 different,
and she rejects that and sends me up here.
- So they told you you are not eligible.
- She's told me she's giving me the food and money
and all that other garbage, you know,
but she wants me to relocate instamatically.
She just wants me to move somewhere.
- Your case is accepted, though.
- Yes.
- You know upstairs, there aren't two people
that do it the same way?
- There aren't?
- If you're gonna need an interpreter
I'll have to go find someone.
- No no no, hold it.
If I get my check today,
which I think I will, they owe me two checks.
You could...
Come on, I don't do that, come on.
- You want to go with me?
- I just got out of the hospital.
- Okay.
What were you in the hospital for?
- I got a operation.
- Mrs. Johnson.
- I was put in a hotel for a week,
and my check was supposed to come there
between the first and the third.
It didn't come, the man gave me two days
and put me out the hotel.
- Mrs. Johnson, according to this,
social security gave you a check on the 6th of January?
- For food money.
- How much did they give you?
- $100 food money until...
And saying my check will be there in 10 days,
it's been 14 days, I meet the mailman every morning,
no check comes.
I can't pay no rent and I'm supposed to be in a hotel,
but I didn't.
And they ain't even had me listed,
they told me that I wasn't even on the roll.
- Were you receiving assistance here before,
Mrs. Johnson?
- Yes I was.
- May I see your Medicaid card?
- This a new one they gave me
and they done put the wrong date on that,
I got to get that changed.
- Excuse me, excuse me.
- They aren't supposed to be issued for a month.
- How long were you on assistance in this office
before you were sent to the social security?
- Since March.
- Since March of...
- This year, last year.
- 1973, yes.
And your case was transferred from this office to security?
- Disabled, because I'm disabled.
- She claims she's been on assistance here since March.
She was living...
She has a rent receipt from the Hotel Marquez dated 1/2/74.
- Mhmm.
- So apparently it's a conversion,
but here they have her as...
Can you make this out here?
- SSI beneficiary.
- Which means that she was a conversion.
- It means that she was a conversion, yeah.
- For them to give her $100,
she obviously is a conversion.
- Is a conversion.
- Nothing we can do.
- Either that or they would've assumed in error
that she was, and it doesn't seem like it,
since she's been in a state of assistance since March.
- But I don't understand they're saying needs home relief.
- Well apparently they just are hoping that she can get
some help here or wanted to get rid of her, either one.
Because...
- I was wondering if they were inferring
that her eligibility had been denied for assistance,
but they wouldn't...
- Did she give us a phone number?
No, they never give us phone numbers to call.
- Now she's at the Hotel Vasquez.
- Oh, yeah, well she'll have to get through
the change of address with them,
and we cannot help her here.
It looks as if she's a conversion case.
- She is a conversion case obviously, yes.
Well I'll in form her of this, okay?
Mrs. Johnson, once a case has been transferred or converted
to social security by this office,
we are not able to make any address changes
that occur in January.
You must wait until they mail you a check, Mrs. Johnson,
because social security already gave you $100
for your January...
- Food money.
Food money for 10 days.
- Yes, until the other check arrives,
they are responsible for any checks
issued you in January, Mrs. Johnson.
- That's what they're saying, but they're saying
y'all's welfare have to make out my budget
and I'll bring it over there to them
and then they will take over from there.
- How much rent were you paying here, Mrs. Johnson?
- I was paying $140 a month.
- $140 a month?
- Yeah, and the hotel, it's gonna cost...
- Well if you were getting...
Do you have cooking facilities at your...
- $47 food cooking facilities,
but the hotel don't have none.
- And the rent there was $140?
- $140 a month.
- That means it's $70, $70 monthly.
In other words, we were...
Your budget, the budget you were receiving from us,
was $117...
- Yes, two weeks.
- Every two weeks, correct.
Now the social security budget will be $214 a month.
You understand that?
- Yes, but I ain't got no check from them.
- But they gave you $100 advance.
- Yeah.
- Toward your food check.
- That was food money.
- Right, now they will send you a check
at your address here.
- Then been supposed to send it.
It wasn't even on the roll,
but now they're gonna have to put me in the hotel
because I'm getting put out of this here place.
- And they are responsible
for the address change...
- And they want...
- I'm gonna give you a letter
and I want you to go there right away
so they can make an address change for you, Mrs. Johnson.
I'm terribly sorry-
- The man said they don't make no changes.
You could call 'em, I don't have money to be
ripping and running in that rain,
I just got out of the hospital from an operation,
a serious operation.
- Well I'll tell you, with the new social security budget,
there is no increase in rent, there are no provisions made
for any increase in rent.
You are to live on a flat grant.
Not to exceed no more than $206.85 a month,
regardless of how much rent you pay.
You will get one grant, do you understand that Miss Johnson?
Whether you pay $50 a month or $150 a month rent.
- $160 a month rent.
- The fact is that social security
does not increase or decrease your budget like we used to.
- No, they say you will figure out
how much my budget will be in the hotel,
and they will house it from there.
- But we cannot change any budgets
after January 1st, Mrs. Johnson.
So the person may have been mistaken.
- Well I was being put in the hotel before January 1st.
- Actually your case is probably at 39 Broadway.
They sent you to the other office because
they were too crowded.
- I called 39 Broadway, she said...
She said that...
- It'll be the end of next month
before I receive any kind of rent money or food money,
and I'll be put out by then.
I didn't record it to social service.
I returned my rent money here.
- I'm calling 39 Broadway now
to see if they could find it, okay?
Valerie Johnson for me, please?
The social security number 437-58-3867.
She was referred to us again for a change of address
I understand effective January
that we are not responsible for any address changes
or budget changes, rather.
She actually is requesting a budget change.
Yes, she wants to put in a change of address, right.
It's 437-58-3867.
Yes, would you please?
Mhmm.
She's gonna check her rolls, Mrs. Johnson, okay?
Okay?
- Okay.
- Okay?
Okay Nicolassa, good night.
- Good night, bye bye.
Bye.
- Yes, hello.
Do you have...
Is the address 31 East First Street?
It's possible, see she says she was serviced
at 1657 Broadway.
Now I don't know why they would service her up there
if she's got this First Street address.
Do you have a birthday on her?
Yeah.
She has a Valerie Johnson there,
31 East First Avenue.
- They got the address wrong, that's what it is.
That's me.
That's me.
- Yeah.
No, but she has a different social security number.
- She got it wrong then.
My ID was lost, I had to come here and get
duplicate copies of everything, that's me, Valerie Johnson.
- Well here your office is at 125th Street,
did you go way up there too, at 230 West 125th Street?
Oh this is when you lived at East 29th Street,
you don't live there anymore, do you?
- No, that was the old one
when I first got my social security card.
- Now this is the correct number that we have here,
your account number,
your social security number seems to be correct.
She's checking it out for me, okay?
Yeah.
- They told me that's where my check would be returned to,
that center.
- Now you didn't pay rent at this address
for January, did you?
- I ain't got no check for January to pay no rent there.
And brought the two rent checks in here
and turned them in to y'all for December
because I was moving in the hotel.
- But they eventually gave you
the December checks, is that correct?
- No, they didn't give 'em to me, y'all still got 'em.
- You got no checks for December here?
- No, I brought 'em into y'all,
one for rent and one for the...
- I mean your welfare checks,
your welfare checks.
- My welfare checks, I turned 'em back into y'all,
both of 'em.
- You had no money for December here?
- I had food money, but the rent money I brought back in.
- Because you were supposed to have moved.
- Because they was putting me in the hotel
soon as the January first.
- Now what happened to the rent money
they gave you for the new hotel?
They're, excuse me.
- They only paid it for one week,
here's the receipt, you got the receipt.
- Okay, well thank you.
- They only paid it for a week,
and then social security was supposed to have my check there
before this rent was due, and they didn't pay it.
The man was nice enough to let me stay there
two days over, and then he couldn't let me stay no more
after the check wasn't coming and I couldn't pay.
- So you did not pay this hotel any rent,
is that correct?
- Yeah, I paid this here.
- Just one week?
- One week.
- And you stayed a week and two days,
is that right?
- My check was supposed to come the third...
Between the third and the seventh, and it never did come.
- Now let me ask you a question, Mrs. Johnson.
Why does social security have your old number,
your old address, did you ask them that?
- Because when I got put on here,
I didn't have nowhere else to go but to that old apartment,
so I went back in that old apartment.
- And this, we...
This is all you received from this office,
a week's rent to pay this hotel here?
- Right, and food money.
- Do you know if they made a change of address
when you did it?
When we gave you a week's rent here at the Marquez hotel...
- They put the address the Marquez hotel then.
After I had to move out of there
I went to social security,
told them how I had to move out of there
and the only place I had to go was the old apartment.
He sent me with this letter for y'all to send me
with a budget.
- You spent the whole $100
since the sixth of the month?
- I paid my lights, my electric,
and gas bill out of it,
bought a few groceries and it was gone.
Bought two new sweaters...
- Mrs. Johnson,
can you wait 'til tomorrow morning?
I think we should work on this properly.
This man apparently...
- That Valerie Johnson that they got at 39...
- At 39 Broadway.
- Broadway, that's me.
They made the mistake in the number
because I didn't see this lady person,
she took the information on the phone.
- But don't you think
that if you came in in the morning Mrs. Johnson
we could clarify this better?
Perhaps that is your case down at Broadway,
there was a different social security number.
- She got the check down there, right?
- Well she didn't say,
she just gave me your name...
- Would you call and ask and I'll go down there
and have her verify that there's no Valerie Johnson
on First Avenue?
I'll even...
- She said 31 First Avenue.
Do you think it's a mistake?
- It ain't no 31 First Avenue,
it's 31 East First Avenue,
they don't even have no address like that.
- It's 31 East First Street.
- Street, right.
It ain't no...
- I asked her for your birthdate
to verify further whether you were the person
and she did not have your birthdate listed there.
- She did not take my birthdate
when she was asking me on the phone.
- Then you did see someone at 39 Broadway.
- I talked to her on the phone,
and been talking to her almost every day.
- Why don't you go there in person,
why don't you down to lower Broadway right now?
- Would you call her and ask her?
- Well, the rent you owe is for December, is that correct?
- December and January, I got no check for January.
Nothing but food money.
And I'm still waiting on my check.
I've been waiting.
- This is very complicated Mrs. Johnson,
because if you owe December rent.
- I don't owe it, I brought it in and gave it here to y'all.
Y'all got December rent.
- Yes, okay then, then we are probably responsible
for that December check.
Social security would...
- That's what they said, y'all responsible for it.
- And social security...
- Now they're gonna give me January,
but ya'll got my December, which puts me two months behind.
- Then we're gonna have to send you to reception
so you get an appointment for group four,
which is the group that gives out checks here, Mrs. Johnson,
do you understand?
You want me to call reception to see if we can get you
an appointment now?
- Yes.
- For the group here?
- For to see about my December check,
but would you call 39 Broadway?
- This comes from 1657 Broadway.
Whatever this means I don't know.
- Hold on a minute.
- She's under the impression that the security workup
wants a budget from us.
But according to this, there's nothing they can do for her,
they gave her $100 on 1/6,
now, she was referred, she claims
she was given a check by us to the Hotel Marquez on 1/2,
and returned the December rent checks.
- All right, she was probably given...
- Now she's back at this address.
- She was probably given a check on 1/2
to replace December checks that were lost.
That's probably why they were able to
- No, they was mailed to me in the mail.
- Okay.
- And they told me they would put me in the hotel,
so I saved the checks and brought them in here.
Now when I went to social security,
they said they didn't even have me on the roll
'cause no check had been sent out to me no kinda way.
So they gave me emergency food money.
At 39 Broadway office, they got Valerie Johnson,
but they got the wrong address.
- I don't see any way that this office can help her here.
I imagine that was some kind of replacement check.
- I would assume.
But according to this, there's nothing they can do for her
and she needs home relief...
- No, she was a grandfathered in case, do we know that?
- She was, I'm sure she was.
For them to give her $100.
- Did you check the roll?
- I can't get security.
I'll have to check the roll to see if she...
I'm sure she was.
- See if she was grandfathered in.
- May I have your Medicaid card again miss?
Oh nevermind, I have it here, I have it here.
- What it appears to be is
that the money you were given here early in January
was to replace money that was given to you in December
or that was owed to you from December or whatever.
You are definitely on social security's rolls.
You are on there to the amount of...
$241.46 a month.
They may give you, hold on a minute, hold on.
You hear me through and I'll hear you through.
That is the amount that we budgeted you for when we
turned your case over to them.
- That was the 31 East what you call it.
- Okay, hold on a minute.
- But you made me a new budget
when you put me in a hotel.
- Hold on.
For $241.46 a month, they may give you some extra
to make up for the fact that you have lost your food stamps.
I think they make some financial allowance for that.
So you would be getting a little extra.
Now, that is for your budget at 31 East First Street,
you're not living there anymore.
- Right.
- But you moved after the first of January,
if my understanding is correct.
Therefore I do not believe...
- She still made out a new budget.
She still made out a new budget
and told me my check will come to the hotel then.
So she had to make out a hotel budget
in order to send my check to this hotel,
so I have enough money to pay.
- All right, we'll have to wait
until we hear from them downstairs.
I understand somebody down there is looking up your record.
We'll see what they did.
I'm just telling you that my understanding is
that if you moved, your case has been turned over
to the Social Security Administration.
Okay.
Well, let's see what they come up with
from the record downstairs.
If something unusual has occurred,
and that change was put through, fine.
- And messing me around because
I'm getting put out of everywhere, you know,
and I don't have no more food money or anything
because they told me definitely
that my check would be out in a few days.
- Miss Matthews, can you get Mrs. Johnson
to come here in the morning?
Explain to her that perhaps we would have
more time to find her record,
we would have more time...
- You can't find her records?
- They've looked downstairs.
The woman in the group...
- No nobody, she didn't go look.
She didn't go look.
She said she...
- Talk to Miss Perry.
- She couldn't give you any information
without the record, that's what she said,
because she don't remember it.
But she got it wrote in the record, she said.
If you get the record you'll see.
- If they don't have your record,
they don't know nothing about you.
You could be Jane Doe.
You understand where I'm coming from?
They don't know nothing about it,
so you cannot, come here, you got something in your eye.
- They've got...
That's a mole.
That man down there could go get the record, see?
- Open your eye.
- That man down there could go get my record.
- Let's go downstairs, I'll talk to Miss Perry.
- Hey, hey, get your stuff.
- Are you ready yet?
- Yeah, I'm waiting for my checks to be taken downstairs.
- Mrs. Johnson, in the event they don't find your record...
- Is this yours?
Please don't forget nothing.
- Miss Matthews, or rather Miss Johnson.
- She can stay with me until tomorrow if necessary.
- That would be fine.
In the event they don't find your record tonight,
please come here early in the morning,
and go to the reception desk.
- Can she get a receipt?
I mean an appointment?
- She will in the morning, yes.
- She can get an appointment downstairs for tomorrow?
- No.
- I doubt if they could do it for her now,
but she will get one in the morning.
- In the morning she'll get an appointment to come back
for another day?
- On an emergency basis.
- That's not sure, that's not sure.
- You know that, you know they ain't gonna give me no...
- See Mr. Matthews tomorrow.
- Mister?
- Matthews, he's in reception...
- If they don't call her number,
if they don't call her number until 5:00 in the afternoon,
she will not get an appointment till the next day.
- On an emergency basis
we can get her an appointment tomorrow.
- They just gave me an appointment for Wednesday.
- Would you give me a letter saying it's emergency basis?
- You're not gonna get nowhere up here arguing with him.
He's doing his job.
The man can't do no more than...
- She gotta go through all that.
Don't feel bad, look here, I've been here
and haven't even got in.
- Come on, come walk with me.
- I did get 39 Broadway, they have a Valerie Johnson there
with a different social security number,
and they got her at 31 Avenue...
- 31 First Avenue.
- I know, but dig this.
Listen, listen, this is the third time that I've been here.
- Makes me mad to see them do this.
- No, but they don't care nothing back there,
they're gonna send her and she's gonna have to go to...
- You know what's curious,
look at the slip they give her to go here.
165 West 46th Street.
I couldn't even get information
to give me a number on there.
- I cannot get them to give me an address on it,
they transferred me from person to person.
- See that's different, she should...
- But she's still a little mixed up.
Now they gonna fuck her around as long as they can.
- But did she tell them that she was eligible for...
- She's a little bit retarded, if that ain't eligible,
what the fuck is?
- Well does she have a doctor
or a psychiatrist or something to...
- Don't you know they send everybody here to J Street?
- I know, but you don't see no psychiatrist
at 330 J Street, I been there.
- I ain't no psychiatrist and I can tell.
- Right.
- You ain't no psychiatrist and you can tell.
So you know he can tell.
- They don't give you the complete test,
they don't give everybody the complete medical
over on 330 J Street.
- Two and two ain't 22, come on.
- Right, but look.
- That's what I was telling her,
ain't no need in arguing with him.
- Get put out on the street.
- No you're not gonna get put out on the street.
Come walk with me downstairs
and I'll talk to Miss Perry
and she'll try and find your record, okay?
- Listen, they got them procedures Valerie,
and you know...
- She gets upset, and I don't want her to, you know,
she had those like seizures.
- I know, I know.
- Valerie, Valerie, Valerie, look.
I'm gonna get my check.
- I think what she needs to do tomorrow is
- Of course they say that you can't have your own apartment
and all that bologna if you're under 21.
- Oh, that's bullshit.
I have my own.
- I know.
And I went to court.
So now it's...
- I got an apartment.
- But I'm not gonna see them unless the lawyer comes,
because then they just hassle you around and you know.
- They told me I had to get a lawyer
to get a buildings inspector down at my house.
- To get a what?
- To get a buildings inspector.
'Cause we got rats and the walls are falling down.
- And they're letting your baby live there?
They're supposed to come, no building inspector.
- I know.
- They're supposed to come, not no building inspector.
- I came here with about five apartments already
and they refused them all.
- Yeah?
How much were the rents?
- One was $135 and one was $160.
Now I got one for $90, they can't refuse me now.
- My son is only five months old
and you know, my mother's real sick,
you know, asthmatic and stuff like that,
my father's had heart attacks,
we don't get along anyway, you know,
'cause he's mad 'cause I'm not married and I had the kid.
So now I have my own apartment
they tell me you can't have it.
When I was pregnant I came here,
I was five months pregnant and they made me come in
like six or seven times,
and they tell me okay, we're gonna give you,
open your own budget, open your own budget,
and they told me no, you know?
And I didn't even have car fare to come or anything.
This place gives you a big around, they're full of shit.
- You know what you should do is get your parents
to write you a letter.
- I got it notarized, I got notarized letter...
- Say that they won't support you.
- I know, but mother's, she's very sick,
and me and my son shouldn't be living in the house.
I got a notarized letter from my father
that he doesn't want me in the house.
That's how they are.
Usually they put the baby in your mother's custody
or something, but they put it in my custody, you know?
But I'm on program and they're pretty good.
Private programs aren't as good as city program, you know?
It's much better.
- Take my kid.
Now welfare, I have to have a letter from my shrink
saying that I'm mentally stable now,
'cause I got off on mental disability two years ago,
and they want to know whether I'm stable or not
enough to have a kid.
So I talked to my shrink and he says
well what do you want me to tell them?
I said tell them I'm not crazy no more.
So I got this shrink, you know.
- Yeah, because they do try, you know.
That's less money for them to be giving you, you know,
they take the baby away.
- Yeah right, they took her off my budget
just 'cause she was in the hospital for a week.
So now I have to get her back.
If I get this place I could get her back on before the 7th
so I have a little money.
- There's no way it can be reopened.
State law provides that if it's closed for more than...
- Aww man, you're giving me technicality,
I'm telling you about a condition, man,
I might be not eating or have no place to stay,
and you're telling me about technicalities.
Man, what are you telling me?
Now what did you give me a check for
when I came down here last time for?
- I've never given you a check.
- I'm talking about...
You're that technical, that you know,
you understand what I'm saying when I say "you,"
I'm not speaking about you, you know?
- Let me say something.
Your case was open the last time you came in the center
and that was three months ago.
- How could it be open when I got a notification
stating that the case was closed?
What are you telling me, you're telling me something...
- I'm telling you
that the last time you were here,
wait a minute now.
- What do you mean, wait a minute?
Don't tell me to wait a minute.
- I'm telling you
the last time you were here on the eighth of November,
your case was open, which is why you got a check then.
- Well all right then.
I'm telling you I got no official notice
that would even indicate that I should come down here.
Well who do I ask for a fair hearing?
- I need five operations.
They have my records there that I need these operations.
From my doctor, from their doctor.
I have a brace now, orthopedic brace,
I can hardly walk.
Yet I have to come down here and fight for my check,
and some mornings I can't get up.
Out of bed.
And my doctor's mad that I just, you know,
signed my way into the hospital.
But where would I live when I come out?
I have a tumor on my back, I need a left ear operation,
I have hernias.
They have it all down in my record.
I was at social security office yesterday,
off 46th Street, the annex.
And they told me to come down here
and I would get a check here.
Now these people say I'm supposed to get a check...
- That's what happened to me.
The social security sends you to the welfare
and they says the welfare will give you a check,
and the welfare says that the social security's
supposed to give you a check, and nobody gives you a check.
- I have no rent money or food money,
and I have no car fare money.
- I don't even have, you have to sneak under the trains
to get in the trains to go see the offices.
- That's how I came here.
By sneaking on the train.
- To get down to the offices,
and once you're in the office you wait around for hours,
and they don't care.
People got lost and the man at the social security
said that he's took care of two and a half million people
he had to take care of, so if a couple of thousand
don't get their check, he's doing a very good job.
- They told them to bring in a letter from social security
and they told them to bring, yeah, yes.
Well what did they tell you today?
- They told us to come back tomorrow.
- They told them to come back tomorrow.
- Fill out an application and come back tomorrow.
- Fill out the application and come back tomorrow.
Oh, you were given an appointment for tomorrow.
Listen...
- But then we don't have money for today.
- But she doesn't have no money for today.
And the social workers are you know, real...
He says that he can't help her out and it's impossible.
Do you have someplace to stay tonight?
- Yeah she has...
Yeah, she has an apartment.
- The only thing they can do,
we'll give you an appointment for tomorrow.
If you can't...
If they refuse to help her tomorrow
you come up and I'll go downstairs with you, okay?
- But I want some money for today so she can...
- They won't be able to give you money today.
There's no way they can give you...
She got a place to live
and it's not an emergency, they claim.
- But she don't have nothing to eat.
- Nothing we can do about it.
They claim that there's no food money in the house,
you know?
- Okay.
- Look.
That's all she has.
- Make the appointment.
Make the appointment and come back tomorrow morning,
as they requested.
And if she runs into a snafu tomorrow,
if she runs into some sort of problem tomorrow,
you and her come upstairs and see me, okay?
- Well what is she gonna do for today?
That's what I want to know.
She's a real person.
- Listen, there's nothing...
They won't give her any money today.
Okay?
- Not even a few dollars so she can eat?
- Nothing, nothing at all.
Better come back tomorrow morning.
- She says you told her she was gonna check from them.
- I just talked to the applications,
the head supervisor there,
and they won't be able to help you.
- Well what's she gonna do, starve?
- I didn't say you should starve,
did I say you should starve?
- Well what is she gonna do?
She don't have no money.
- You represent a poverty agency or what?
- No, a community center.
Aldridge Community Center.
But she needs...
- She didn't live in a vacuum all these years,
she knows the grocery men and she knows different people,
she can get credit for a day.
She didn't live in a vacuum,
all these years she's lived in New York,
she worked, she knows people, she knows grocery men,
she knows neighbors, she has some sort of relatives,
she knows people...
- She's never taken welfare before,
and now that she comes for help, you know,
nobody wants to help her.
If you want to tell me if she would be here every time
for welfare, then I could understand what you're saying.
- Nobody said they're not gonna help her,
they're gonna help her.
She brought back the requirements,
as she was told to do.
- And she doesn't get no help,
and she brought the requirements.
- They say they won't be able to see her till tomorrow,
that's it.
There's nothing more I can do.
I'd like to help you out, but that's all I can do.
Tomorrow I'll personally go down with you, tomorrow.
If she runs into any problems.
Okay?
- Why not today?
It's gonna be the same thing today as tomorrow.
- They won't see her till tomorrow.
- She signs an application today...
- I didn't see the appointment,
originally I had not seen the appointment,
when you first came up,
I had not seen the appointment for tomorrow.
- So what's so big about an appointment
when you could do it today?
She's willing to stay here.
- Did you see how many people
were downstairs?
- There's an emergency case, right?
- Every case is an emergency.
- Do you eat?
- Every case is...
- You eat, right?
- Do you eat?
- Yes.
- Do you eat?
- Yes.
- Okay, I eat also.
That's very good, I'm proud of you.
- She's not in good health.
- I'm proud of you.
- She's had an operation, right?
Well what is she supposed to do?
- All I can do.
There's nothing more we can do about it.
Nothing more we can do.
- 19C.
- Made more phone calls trying to get a job,
no one's given me a job.
I'll get a job though.
- Can you cook?
- Cook?
Yeah, I can cook.
Anything.
- Were you ever on a ship?
- Yeah, small ships, small boats.
Yeah, in fact I was on...
The last trip I was on was a French aircraft carrier.
- Oh yeah?
- Yeah.
- What were you doing there, cooking?
- I was just wandering around, visiting.
- You been in Europe and Asia?
- Never been in Asia.
- You been out of the country?
- Yeah.
- Where?
- Canada.
- Oh.
It's the only place I haven't been.
- Montreal, Toronto.
- You are?
That's good.
- Well I'm worth a fortune myself...
$3000.
- $3000?
- And $2500 from a month, welfare $500 month or so.
- Doing pretty good.
I haven't worked for since October.
- My brother-in-law, my future brother-in-law Nelson
Broke.
- Broke?
I'm not a success.
- You'll get money, you'll get your money.
- I don't even have a credit card.
Don't even have a credit card.
- Did you ever do any fighting?
- No.
I'm a peaceful man.
- Ever had any fights?
- Not in a long time.
My wife hit me in the head I think.
- You still mad?
- Yeah.
- We'll go down and find out.
I can get shelter.
Get a worker.
And possibly I can,
and then
I'll see if I can.
- What did you say, that she said you have to have
a physical and a psychiatric exam?
- No no no no.
You have a physical
on like the first,
then you wait a day,
then you go back on the third.
Apparently they do blood tests and things like that.
- You come back here two days later.
- You come back here on the fourth.
Assuming the fourth is a day they're open.
- Not a weekend or something, yeah.
- It's probably another weekend.
By then I'll be very hungry.
- Oh, I'm sure you will have.
It's procedure, she told me.
- I filled out all these papers.
I could show you VA, this, that.
We're having a black.
It's...
It's a catastrophe
for any poor slob seeking assistance.
And I got stuff here.
I can show you
so much stuff here.
This, that, and that.
All these are different things.
All these are places I've been.
Show you names, rent numbers here,
names, all these centers, every one of them.
I'm a veteran, they say I'm not a Korean veteran,
because I went on 9/17/53.
And officially according to the VA,
it ain't over till 1/55.
That I'm positive of,
because I would've had a wartime disability,
they told me it was before.
No I was, I went in late.
- I was in '52.
- I was in the Navy before that.
- Yeah, well I was in the Army at that time.
It just doesn't make a damn difference.
- You can get VA assistance.
You can get VA assistance.
Did you go up to that place, 529 Eighth Avenue?
Something's awful funny here.
Something doesn't meet the eye.
Look at all these places I've been to.
No car fare, nothing.
I don't eat.
Walk the streets.
I got medical proof of my sickness.
I'll have it tomorrow.
If this...
I'll have the money on Tuesday, rather.
I gotta mail these letters out.
I ain't got stamps.
I been here four times this week, four times.
And they keep sending me out,
and every place I go keeps sending me back here.
Now you figure that one out.
Here I was all day one day.
Look at these forms they fill out.
A whole rigamarole of forms.
Papers, papers, papers.
I got more.
There's one.
There's another one.
There's another one and another one.
Here's my hospital card from the VA, I'm a veteran.
And a driver's permit.
I been to 20, 30 places.
- Hi David, you're not gonna believe what's happening dear.
Tuesday morning I came over to the Waverly center.
Waverly said bring back a passport,
bring a notarization for your father
that he's not willing to support you anymore,
fill out this application,
bring back letters from your doctors
for when you were dismissed, when you entered,
all this crap.
And they gave me appointment for Thursday morning.
Oh and also a notarized letter from my roommate
that she was no longer gonna put up with me after Friday.
Well I have a letter from her,
but the poor kid does not have the time to notarize it.
So I came back, I really forgot the appointment on Thursday
because I've been depressed and kind of upset,
I come back today, I went to talk to the worker,
she would not read the letter from the department of...
Oh yesterday I went down to the World Trade Center
department of social whatever it is from the state, yeah.
Well, she would not read that letter,
nor would she read the letters from the two doctors,
she said I'll give you an appointment for Monday.
I said I'm sorry, I have $1 to my name
and I have not got a place to sleep this weekend.
She said sorry, all I can do
is give you an appointment for Monday.
I said you got to be kidding.
I am out of an institute for manic depression,
and I am depressed lady.
What do I do?
Come back for your appointment on Monday.
Do you believe that?
This coming Monday.
She doesn't really care.
None of them care.
I told her I have no friends.
I told her I have no place to go.
I told her I have $1, that I walked up from Bleaker Street.
I have a notarized letter from a hospital,
I have a notarized letter from everybody.
I have every goddamn thing they asked for.
And they said all we can do,
I've spoken to the office manager,
is you can come back Monday morning for an appointment.
I said lady, what do I do for the weekend?
I am sick, I was discharged Monday
from a psychiatric institute for manic depression.
This is friendly New York for you
in the New York welfare department.
Maybe she thinks I should sleep
at Port Authority for the weekend.
Yeah, that's what they...
Oh, she first, even down at the state department
or whatever it is, she said women's shelter,
she said but you really couldn't go there,
there's a lot of sickies there.
A lot of dikes, a lot of really, you know,
bad news people.
I said really lady, I would freak out.
There is no way I could handle that.
And she said well I'm sorry,
it takes at least maximum 45 days
to get approved for welfare.
I said...
And they wouldn't touch me in the hospital.
So what the hell do they expect me to do?
What?
Yeah?
That's not a bad idea.
Well I'm writing a letter to the Village Voice.
Maybe I'll call him too.
Geraldo Rivera?
Okay.
Yeah.
I think he might be very interested in it.
- You're gonna see more hanging
than you ever saw in your life.
- Oh, I've seen a lot of hanging.
- Any hanging.
- Oh yes, man.
Lost my brother at five years old, hmm.
- They'll hang.
They'll hang like crazy.
Crazy.
- What can I tell you?
What can I tell you?
- You can't tell me anything.
- There it is.
- There's no way to control it, man.
- Nobody controls anything.
- What are we talking about?
- We all act savages.
That's the way this country was founded.
- Savages.
- There it is.
- We're all savages.
- All of us, black, white, blue, green, purple,
all of us are savages.
- There's no way we can conduct ourselves as gentlemen
amongst ourselves?
- There is.
That can be done, but nobody wants to take time
or to sit down and find it.
- I do.
- You do?
By calling me nigger?
Telling me you're gonna shoot me with a 357 magnum?
- The next time three guys do this up against my head
I'm gonna shoot 'em.
- But you got a right against those three guys.
- You better believe it, baby.
- Those three.
Only those three.
You don't come here and threaten me.
I ain't never seen you before.
I ain't put my hands on you.
And you come in here and you threatening me.
- You black are about 10% of the population,
and you account for 63% of the crime.
- Well what can we tell you?
- Statistically you don't have to tell me anything.
- what you want me to say?
- How come 10% are worth 63% of the crime?
- So now what you're trying to say is
all of us are bad.
- No.
- Hmm?
- No.
No one is all bad.
- So this is what the whole thing is about...
- I'm giving you a statistic.
- Can I do that?
- What do you mean?
- Statistic don't mean anything to me.
Really.
'Cause there ain't a man out there on the street
I'm afraid of.
Nobody gonna take anything from me.
- Cain killed Abel.
- Yeah, but Abel wasn't looking.
- His brother.
That's right.
- I don't trust anyone.
- I assume they were white.
- Oh, you can assume what you want to.
- Whatever.
- You can assume what you want to.
- It's not a hangup about the black.
- I know those.
This I know.
- Why are the blacks "get whitey," huh?
Get whitey?
- So why was it before get nigger?
- Get whitey.
Get nigger?
- What goes around comes around.
- They didn't have to get nigger.
They could hang the niggers, they didn't have to get 'em.
- They could hang the niggers, just like...
That's your race, that's your race.
Hang a nigger any time you want to.
- Any time.
- Right after lunch, hang a nigger.
- As it should be.
Get outta town by sunset.
Your ass is black, get outta town.
- Yeah it is.
- Don't be here when the sun sets.
- Yeah right.
- That's Mississippi.
- That's all over.
- But what about my town?
- What is your town?
- New York.
We never did that.
- New York is my town too.
- We never did that.
- You never did what?
- We never talked.
- Huh?
- We never talked "get your ass outta here,
"get your ass outta New York,".
- Really?
Are you sure of this?
- Absolutely.
- You're positive?
- Can't be positive, only a fool is positive.
- All right then, all right then.
- A fool is certain.
- So don't come and tell me.
- But I never hanged.
- You can't tell me something you're positive of,
I don't even want to hear it.
Oh you never, there's a lot I never heard of.
- But I was really amazed when I saw
these three goddamn blacks beating me head
and kicking my head in.
- You keep bringing that up.
- Kicking my head in.
- You keep bringing that up.
Well it's a fact, man.
- I got nothing to do with that.
- Well certainly you don't.
- I got nothing to do with that.
- But they got a particular sadistic delight
in beating whitey's head in.
That covered all the hangings and all the, you know.
Covered everything.
They didn't even know.
- That made up for all of it.
- It made up for all of it.
- That one little incident with you
made up for everything.
Well then everything should be straight now.
Everything should be straight now.
- No.
The only thing straight is that I'm gonna get a gun
and I see a black man coming up to me
I'm gonna blow his belly in.
I'm not gonna blow his belly out,
I'm gonna hit him in the balls.
- Mhmm.
- So they'll not forget it.
- You think they make only one gun?
- One gun to blow his balls...
- That's all they make, that's all they make is one gun.
- But I'm gonna...
I'm a gunnery sergeant.
I was a Marine sergeant.
- What that mean?
- I killed about 500 men in the war and never saw them.
But now I'm gonna see that black man...
- How you know you killed them?
- And those Puerto Ricans...
- Oh, now it's the Puerto Ricans.
- Yeah.
- If talked to you in half an hour
it'd be an Irishman and a Chinaman.
Yeah, okay.
- Sure.
But at the moment it's Puerto Rican and colored.
- Yeah, what was it, two blacks and one Puerto Rican?
Or two Puerto Ricans and one black?
- It happened to be three blacks.
- It happened to be three blacks and one Puerto Rican.
- Well, when this happened, yeah.
- Oh, when that happened.
Puerto Rican was in there when this happened.
- Kicking my brains in.
Now don't tell me, man.
- I can't tell you anything, I can see that.
- They got a real delight.
- I can see it.
I can't tell you anything.
- Kicking my brains in.
I'm trying to fight 'em.
Get that whitey, get whitey, you whitey.
Punks.
- Did you do anything to them?
- Eh.
- What?
- If I'd have got ahold of them I'd strangle them.
- I didn't say, I said did you do anything
before they started hitting you?
- Of course not.
- Hmm?
You're just walking down the street.
- One guy grabbed me on the back of the neck,
I'm down, there it is.
I'm down, I'm out.
I got up to fight him.
- I feel for you.
- They ripped me off and...
- I feel for you myself, feel you.
- Oh, you feel, yeah.
- I feel for you, I'm serious.
- You would've protected me.
- Probably.
Probably.
- With the badge and everything.
- Probably.
Put my life on the line for less than that.
For a country I don't have.
- For a country you don't have?
- Country I do not have.
- I don't have a country, man.
You people have got it.
- Oh, we got it now.
Oh, so it's our country and you're just living here.
- I won't fight anymore for this one.
- Yeah?
- 30 years ago I fought for this one.
Not anymore.
Not to bring up the swine that's coming up on the street.
- What swine you talking about now?
What swine are you talking about now?
- What do you want, baby?
- I don't want anything.
- What do you really want?
- Actually I don't even feel like talking to you,
but since you're here, to tell you the truth.
- Oh you'd rather ignore the whole thing, eh?
- Isn't that what you're doing?
- No.
- No?
- I'm bitching like crazy.
I come in here and they can't even give me
a room to sleep tonight.
- Why?
- Why?
- Why?
- Well ask them, don't ask me.
- They should've told you.
- Why?
- Didn't you talk to the ladies, she told you.
- Got a fractured skull,
I've been two months in the hospital and out,
they get a letter from the hospital
and I'm persona non grata.
What should I add?
For my country.
Two Puerto Rican paramours, three colored concubines?
- Now it's five of them.
- Six children, six children.
Well, it's only a story.
What should I do?
I paid more taxes than my president.
- We all paid more taxes than your president.
- Yeah.
- You didn't say nothing.
- Is there anybody that'll talk to me,
or what are you gonna do with me?
- The lady talked to you already.
I don't know what she told you...
- They haven't talked to me yet.
It's getting late.
- So what are you doing,
you going to the hospital now?
- Yeah.
You gotta call the hospital, I want to go back.
- They're not coming.
- May I use your phone?
- any phone you want to.
- Never the twain shall meet, huh?
Never the twain shall meet.
- If that's the way you feel.
If that's the way you feel.
- It's the way I know, baby.
We're never gonna make it.
Never gonna make it.
- I'm not gonna stop trying till I'm dead.
- This is not my country,
you don't even comb your hair that way,
you're gonna be...
- Comb what hair?
- Black is beautiful.
- I got the right to wear my hair any way I please.
- Black is beautiful, man.
- I know it is.
- Black is blond.
- To you.
- I'm getting a 357 magnum and blowing
every black that I can right out of the business.
- Now two wrongs don't make a right now.
- Right.
- Mhmm.
- And when we finally get rid of the 10% of black.
- Just get rid of all of us.
- Get rid of all of you.
- Never.
Never.
- Not the way you progenerate.
- No way.
- Oh man, you're like rabbits, you're like rabbits.
- No way.
- You're like rabbits.
But where we're gonna beat you is
because you don't have any homes.
When they get so goddamn black,
these streets are gonna run with blood.
- Well, one thing I can tell you is...
- And you're only 10%, man.
- It won't be all black blood.
- Oh, you'll get some whiteys.
They're getting some whiteys.
They're getting a few cops.
They're dedicated to get cops.
There's a, you know.
The blacks are dedicated to get cops.
- Oh, we all are.
- They've killed many many cops.
- I'm dedicated to get a cop.
- Oh, you got to get 'em.
- Oh, I got to get 'em.
- Badge or no badge.
You got to get 'em.
Oh yeah.
Yep.
- That sounds a little far-fetched.
- And that's not even the Muslim.
They're even taking 'em out in far-fetched Muslim,
but it's not even far-fetched Muslim.
They're out to get the cops.
But we're not gonna allow it.
And because the fact that you're in the minority,
you're gonna die.
You're gonna be worse off than you ever were.
- Could be.
But you have to remember...
- Back to Africa.
- You have to remember minorities started this country.
- Not a minority.
- Oh yes it was.
- Oh no.
- When the British this country,
how many people were in America, man?
- That was a political and a religious minority,
but they were white, they were white, they were white.
- This is different.
This is different.
- Yep, yep.
Like a man says, biologically and nomologically,
and prominality, everything the black,
- What?
- Different.
- Different than whom?
- The whites.
- Hmm?
- The whites.
- In what respect?
In what respect am I different from you?
- You figure it out.
Take your whole people.
- I'm no different from you.
- Don't put it specifically.
- Except maybe a little prouder.
- Prouder?
- Maybe a little prouder.
That's right.
- Man, you got nothing going.
- Who got nothing going?
I got everything going.
- Nothing.
You got nothing going.
- Really?
- Really.
- Looks like I got more going now
and I'm only 22 than you have your whole life.
- I'm 51, man.
- That's right.
- And I've fought wars, twice.
- Oh, I've fought 'em too, ain't no big thing.
Ain't no big thing.
And I fought in a war that was worse than yours.
'cause I saw who I was killing.
- You never see.
- Oh, I saw who I was killing.
Every man I shot down, I saw.
- I never saw the men that I killed.
- That's the difference between your war and mine.
- I had orders.
- We all had orders.
- You're prejudiced, that means that you had...
- At whom?
- You had a particular reason to kill a man.
- At whom am I prejudiced?
- I never killed a man I ever...
I never killed a man.
I never killed a man that I...
Never had anything against a man that I killed.
- So then what were you doing in the war, then?
- Survival.
- Isn't that what we're doing?
- Simply survival.
- Isn't that what we're doing?
- Oh no, not the way the blacks coming up now.
Black is beautiful, black is perfect, black power.
- Still survival.
- Power, power, power.
- Still survival.
It's all survival.
- You got nothing going, man.
- I got everything.
- Man, you say black is power, you're gonna 86 out.
- 86 out.
I might as well get all my business together.
- Get all your business together.
- Say goodbye to everybody.
- Say goodbye to everybody.
- But see I didn't know, you know.
How did I know?
Hmm?
- You don't think you're gonna make too goddamn much.
- Oh, I'm gonna make everything I want.
- Well take a look at TV right now.
We're in the greatest goddamn spot.
What do you got?
- What do we have?
- What do you got?
Not even expression.
- Tell me.
- Not even leadership.
Nothing.
- At what?
- At any level.
- At any level?
- You blacks can't even lead each other.
You can't even lead each other.
- Ain't got nothing better to do.
Don't have anything better to do.
All right, I'll finish, okay.
All right, it was nice talking to you.
I learned a lot from you.
- It wasn't, you haven't learned a goddamn thing.
- Yes I did, I learned that I don't have long to live.
That's good to know.
- You're killing yourself.
- I don't want to die just like that.
If I know it's coming I can prepare for it.
- It depends on who shoots you, who hangs you.
- Really.
- I got no respect.
- Well that's you.
- No respect.
- I got enough for both of us.
- Nope.
- I got enough for both of us.
- I hope it'll keep us alive.
- It's gonna keep me alive.
- Your name is Magdonna, right?
- Yes.
- Okay, Mrs. Magdonna, I...
- And they say I'm not supposed to...
- Sweetheart, listen to me.
- No more white tickets,
I done got about four of 'em already.
- Will you listen to me?
- Yes.
- I asked you to be patient,
and when the lady comes back from lunch,
I told you that I would come over and let you know,
all right?
I would check it out for you, right?
- Yeah, but is she back?
- No she's not back.
She's not back.
- Well there ain't but three chairs in there.
- Be patient, all right?
Have a seat over there and I'll take care of it for you,
okay?
- Please, 'cause I got to go to my parole hearing.
- All right.
Excuse me.
- You have to go.
Just get out of the center, all right?
- Oh boy.
Mister, just get out of the center now.
- You know, the interesting thing is
that I see every cop is black.
Why is this?
If I were a white man, or any particular thing,
I'd probably think they were prejudiced.
What the hell, is everybody in social welfare
and everything black?
- 'Cause we want to help.
- I think I'll get a...
What the hell is it?
An NAAWP?
- CP?
- CP for white.
- That's good.
- A white man's gotta protect himself.
See the reason I didn't break your haed.
The reason I didn't break your head was because I knew
But you hit me like a tiger.
You actually wanted to do it.
But I knew I could've busted you back
and if it weren't for these guys...
- Mister, why don't you go on now?
Won't you please go now?
- You couldn't put him in a bag
when I get through with him.
- He'll be fine, yeah.
- You believe it?
- Right, okay...
- And that's with the badge right on top of it.
You're that great, man.
But if you think you can take me,
take my hand right now.
Put one foot to me
and show these black men how great you are.
- Mister, will you please go on?
Go to the hospital, go where you're going.
- No, I want to get another one.
- Come on, day's over man.
- Oh Jesus Christ.
- Oh I know I'm gonna get stuck doing this forever.
- Hold it a minute.
- Somebody show me to the elevator?
- Elevator?
- Yeah.
Well I don't know.
I need a new Medicaid card.
- Let me take care of you.
Let me take care of you.
Sit down.
- Thank you.
- Okay.
- The reason why they want
to close your case is because
they have tried to verify your husband's income
for several months and nobody's cooperated...
- He brought the income in, it's right here in the record.
We brought it in, and they took a photostatic copy.
Would you look in the record and find it?
Every check I have to go through all this bullshit?
There was one time he did bring it in,
it's in there, the photostatic copy.
That's it right there.
They gonna keep telling me he didn't bring the pay stub in?
He don't get paid off in check,
he get paid off in envelopes.
- What did they tell you
at the conference that was held on this case
when you received a notice
that your case was gonna be closed?
- They did not send me a notice telling me
my case was gonna be closed.
- Well you had a conference,
didn't you go to the conference?
- Yes.
And they did not tell...
- You wouldn't have known
about the conference unless you had known
your case was going to be closed.
- I asked for this.
- Yes, but I mean you asked for it
because they sent you this here.
- They didn't send nothing out to me
because when I came into the office
I asked them for a fair hearing.
So they advised me to go upstairs to this lady.
And she sent me a notice,
appointment when to come in.
- And that's Miss Horowitz you saw, right?
- They did not discuss
nothing about no case closing or nothing.
You think if they told me my case was going to be closed
I'd be sitting up here?
- Well the conference was held, according to all of this.
No Tom, you're misunderstanding me.
- Yes, I know what you're saying.
- She got this.
- Right, right.
- She called the number.
- And she's been at the fair hearing.
- She got this conference.
Yeah, the conference said her case would be closed
so they're sending her this notice saying...
- Yeah but she didn't in fact have a fair hearing,
it was a conference, right?
- Well, my question is this.
She says that she gave them the information they wanted.
And if you look in the record.
- Yeah, but I'm asking you, did she...
- You will see that in fact she did.
- Yeah, but I'm not...
- So I wonder why they're closing her case.
- Oh, that, okay.
This is from George Drew's office.
- Horowitz worked on it.
Should I go up and give Horowitz a run for her money?
- Go up and ask her why they're closing her case.
- Fabulous.
- Right.
That's a whole...
Thanks, Noel.
Thanks Noel.
- Excuse me, is this Miss Horowitz's office?
And you agree that the case should be closed,
is that what this means?
- Client working for five years...
Yes, that's what it means.
Whatever action is necessary.
Because I have no proof that this man has left the home,
in fact I don't believe he has.
- Well no, but she was asked to bring in the pay stubs,
right?
That's what the closing is for.
She says she brought them and there is a copy of them.
Did she show you that?
- She asked me to change the budget,
put it back in her name, that he's not living with her,
do you know about that?
- Is this what she brought you?
Is that sufficient, does that answer the closing notice?
- There's more involved than just what the man is making.
- Yes I know, there is more involved, I agree with you,
but we have to go by what is on this paper here,
and it says we're closing it because for the last
five years, you have never brought your pay stubs.
He's bringing them now.
- Yeah.
- So you have to leave it open.
- He brings them now and he's saying
he's living with his wife...
- Well we'll get into that later.
- That's the thing that you have to go into now,
is the case suspicious.
That's why...
- So finally they find out how much money he's making
and now she says he's no longer in the home.
But my point is you cannot go ahead and close it
because she brought the stuff.
- If she has complied, you know,
I'm not the fair hearing section.
- Yes, but you had the conference on it.
- Yes, at the time I had the conference
I didn't have proof of current income.
He showed me something from a year or two before
or something, I didn't see that one
from the current pay slip.
- Well is that sufficient, what I showed you here?
- Yes, I would say it is.
- Okay, so it can't be closed.
Are you gonna void this 913 then?
'Cause her case is going to be closed
unless someone called up and said stop it.
Or however you do that.
- I have to change it to not upheld.
That's all I do.
- So her case will remain open.
- Yeah.
- Okay.
Thank you.
Tom.
I pointed out to Miss Horowitz the error of her ways.
- Yes.
- She's upset because she doesn't believe the woman's story
that conveniently her husband has disappeared
as soon as this is taken care of,
rather that he's out of the home.
She wants the case transferred to her name
because the checks are going out in his name.
I think we just don't do that on her say,
we'll have to find out where he is,
meaning write to his employer, see what address is there,
check housing, 'cause they live in public housing,
see if he's listed on that.
- Send a letter, a registered certified letter...
- Now, you should also know that she says
her children are starving.
- Her what?
- She wants some money.
Do you want to give her any?
- Well, the can't.
- Okay.
- Yeah, they can't close it on that, they have to...
- No, the closing yes, they will not close.
But she wants the money today.
Of course they can't give her any
unless the case is reclassified into her name.
- Well they have to reclassify it then...
- Well they can't do it until we check it out.
- No...
Well, I don't know how they...
Now let me tell you, they have to reclassify into her name
before they can give it, right, the checks?
- Right.
- However, she has a perfect right
to ask for a fair hearing,
despite the hearing she had upstairs.
- No, she doesn't need a fair hearing.
We've already decided her case is not to be closed
because she did at the last minute bring the pay stub.
- What I say is they would...
I would suggest...
- But now she's saying don't count the pay stubs
because the guy does not live there any longer.
- If she's without funds,
they have to service her financially.
They'll have to make the switch on the basis
of our ongoing investigation.
- They'll have to decide that.
- That's their decision, but that's what they'll have to do.
- So I'll just work on our end.
- Right.
They'll have to make whatever change is necessary
to service her and on the basis of our investigation...
- Miss Horowitz had made a mistake.
You did bring the pay stub,
or your husband did, whoever did.
We have to verify where your husband is now.
Did you tell Lilian Wallhauser that he had moved out?
- Yes.
- So he's off their records.
- Yes, because I have the new lease
they sent in the mail yesterday
for me to fill out for that.
- Are you married to him?
- Yes, I'm legally married to him, I have my
papers here.
- Do any other children live in the home
besides these listed here?
Patricia, Leeroy, Priscilla, Denise,
and there's another Patricia?
- No, they have...
Gwendoline's supposed to be.
It's Gwendoline, Patricia, Denise, and Leeroy,
Michael and Irving have left.
- Well we'll have to refer this
to family court.
- So I can't get an emergency check?
Some food for the kids?
- Well it's not that simple
because they have to take your husband off the case,
and they can't do that,
they can't make any changes in the welfare budget
without sending a notice to you
and giving you 15 days to say go ahead and do it
or I don't care or say nothing or protest it
or whatever you want to do,
even if this move is in your favor,
in this case it would be in your favor
to take your husband off the budget today.
They can't do that 15 days.
So I think you're in a bind.
But I'll take the record up to the group.
It's not my responsibility, money matters.
And I'll explain to them that we're referring it to court,
and...
Since welfare's really based upon what clients say,
they really have to believe what you tell them.
Until it's proved otherwise.
How long have you been on welfare?
- Let's see.
About eight or nine years.
Maybe 10.
- Well, we can take this up to the group.
Do you want to sign this, Tom?
- Yes, yes.
- No no, I haven't.
- Okay right.
They have to process it until our investigation is through.
Whatever manipulations they have to make.
- To start with the reason that we sent people to J Street,
the reason that we send everybody to J Street
is because we want to see if you're able to work or not.
Because that's the most important factor
in determining what type of assistance is appropriate.
So we have different types of assistance
based on whether or not you are able to work.
And the J Street report says that you are employable.
How much school have you had?
- Well, I went to the ninth grade.
- In New York?
- Yes, in New York.
- And what do you have
in the way of employment background?
- Well, I don't have too much of a employment experience
due to the fact that, you know,
I've just been released out of prison after 11 years.
- Where were you?
- You know, I was Clinton, Comstock, and what have you,
nevertheless I was released out of prison.
- Oh, so you've been in jail several times.
- No, that's my first time in prison.
But I did 11 years in prison.
So I don't have too much of a backing, you know, background.
- What was the charge?
- Homicide.
- Are you now...
You served the complete sentence, are you on parole?
- I'm still on parole for four years.
- Did you manage to pick up
any special training or anything like that?
- Well...
Yes, tailoring.
My first few years in prison, I picked up tailoring,
but I'm not that well, you know, skilled in tailoring
due to the fact that I dropped it, you know.
I have to brush up on it.
- So what happens is we send you over today
to the rep office, that'll be this morning, right from here,
and first you're seen by somebody from the New York state
employment service, because they would have full time jobs,
and certainly if you can get a full time job,
that would be anything that rep would offer.
If they don't have a full time job,
or it looks as though they are not going to have one
very soon, then they forward you to the rep,
and you'll have another person,
like another case worker, who will again
ask about your employment background
and see if they've got anything that looks good.
It's very important to get the phone number of that person,
because just in case let's say you're unable
to keep an appointment or something,
they right away start telling me to close the case,
you know?
And this is one of the problems that you might have.
So in general I'm also going to give you my phone number
because I'm going to have your case here
so that, I mean, if some complication comes up,
right away call so that there won't be any misunderstanding,
because it's much easier to you know,
settle things out before they happen.
- I've been a supervisor since 1966,
and I see people who've been supervisors since 1969
who are getting all the very best jobs,
and I don't like it.
- Who has the best job?
- Well, and she's frozen and no one can touch her.
You take this woman here, she's pleading hardship.
You take Mr. Morris, he's pleading union delegate,
he can't be moved.
- She's a union delegate.
- Right, that's what I'm saying,
and they pull super seniority.
So by the time they finish I have no seniority at all,
because everybody else is going,
you take Susteel who should've been out of here
and she's pleading hardship.
Well it's more hardship for me.
- She is a sick woman, she had a...
- I have to come from New Jersey,
what are you talking about?
I get up at 5:30 every morning,
and spend a lot of money,
I spend more money to get to this job
than anybody else on staff.
You wouldn't believe it the money I spend
to get to this job.
That's right.
Whether I come by train, whether I come by my personal car
or what, it's very expensive to come from New Jersey.
- At one time the department didn't have
anybody on the staff who lived out of state, you know that?
- Don't give me about out of state.
I've been on...
When I first came to the department I lived in New York.
Not only did I live in New York,
I was a home owner in New York,
having a house 60 by 100 at 1144500 79th Street St. Albans.
A very wealthy section, right?
Now, I own property in New York.
I'm entitled to work in New York
and lived there for many many years.
- I know that, I...
- The reason I went to Newark was because
my stepfather died and he left my mother
all alone in the house.
So I went to live with her.
When she died, the house came to me by inheritance.
What am I gonna do, throw the house in the street?
Right?
- Well if you have any grievance,
why don't you discuss it with Stanley?
- It's useless to discuss with Stanley, he his favorites.
Just like before.
I should've gotten the...
I should have bene the supervisor for general service
because I had the seniority, I had the training,
I've had the courses,
I've been to four of them, I've had casework one,
casework two, personality and behavior one,
personality and behavior two,
administration and juvenile delinquency.
Now that fits me for something,
I haven't been just sitting on my rear
not keeping abreast of the times.
I've always kept up.
And I think I deserve better than the kind of fair shuffle
that I've been getting here in this welfare department.
Because this man is a czar and he's going to put in
who he wants to put in.
- Why don't you discuss it with him?
- That's all.
What's there to discuss?
- Why are you taking it out on me?
- Because you called me in.
And that's why I resorted to CO,
because I figured they must have some kind of job down there
even if it's no more than interviewing people for
maybe jobs in the department or whatnot,
because I can do interviewing and whatnot.
- So you're forgetting about this memo?
- If Mr. Sullivan wants to speak to me, you know,
you can tell him that this came through
and that Miss Hightell would like to see him
in reference to this memo.
Before I have to resort to grievance machinery.
- Listen, I didn't hear anything further
on Frank Curtis Rossa.
Because he was going to legal aid
or, one or the other.
So if you should get a call,
the big question is, who is he?
- Getting assistance under phony names.
- Three different names.
We don't know, and each one uses the other
as the landlord in the particular case,
so if he's being evicted, who is evicting who?
- I spoke to the investing officer.
- He's evicting himself.
- We had him arrested the other day.
He had a record a mile long.
- Yeah, he had a big record.
- Big record.
You know, he doesn't fear getting busted.
He doesn't fear getting busted.
- No.
All these guys.
It's a normal routine of things.
They're not excited about it.
- He was excited about it.
- Nah, it doesn't bother them.
They're accustomed to it.
Anyway, I'm only letting you know this.
The case the other day, you should get a call.
But the big problem is, who is who?
We don't know who the man is,
we don't know that he...
- Well I called out Jack Williams
and he answered to Jack Williams.
- All right.
Now it's Curtis Rossa.
There's another guy, Jack Haiga.
Well this is why I put it in each record.
Besides, we don't have the record of this one.
- Now hold on, Jack, Jack.
He answered, you know, and he came over.
- Anyway, this attorney has all the records anyway, so,
We take no action until this is disposed of by the court.
- How stupid can he be to come in today?
Over here, he knows the...
- They have hutzpah to the end.
- You knocked him up and he still came in again
for his welfare check.
- What's he got to lose?
- Unbelievable.
I'll see you.
- I was here Friday, I was too late for this,
and she told me to come back to get
for tomorrow maybe.
It was too late to go upstairs, they were closed.
- It's on Thursday.
- It was Friday.
- No, you're supposed to get it in the mail.
You were supposed to bring it to me this morning, Mister.
I'll give you one for tomorrow.
- That's what you said on Friday.
- That is my food block, right?
- That's correct.
- I get $42 for food, okay?
Now if...
Is that all the money I'm gonna get?
- That's correct, they will not pay the rent.
- That's it?
All right.
Now when it goes to getting my...
- Unemployment.
- Yeah, unemployment.
- They take that into account.
- Are they gonna deduct that figure?
- Yes, yes.
- They're gonna deduct.
- In other words, if you get $25 a week unemployment,
which is the minimum, that's $50 every two weeks,
which is in excess of our budget,
in which case they would close your case immediately.
- So the maximum allotment I can get approximately right now
from you coupled with unemployment
is about $50 a week.
As you see it?
- No, less.
No no no no no.
- I'm trying to find out the figure that I get.
- They won't pay this rent.
See, in the event that you were to find an apartment
for $150...
- Wait a minute, wait a minute, okay.
Now all I care about is
if I had $150 instead of $175,
you're telling me they would pay it?
- Right, okay, let's assume it was $150.
- All right, now.
Because they won't consider,
they won't put a maximum limit on that and say
ah, this is, you know,
we will treat this as $150 and the rest she has to make up.
- They can't do that, that's all.
- Well then what am I supposed to...
I'm supposed to relocate?
- That's correct.
This isn't my...
- That's insane, all right.
- Be that as it may, that's, okay...
- I want to find out how I get
that maximum allotment for $150.
- You would have to live an apartment for $150.
They will not allow you to live in an apartment for more
and only pay partial.
That's not legal.
That's, you know, this is the city or actually state will,
they allow only a certain amount per person.
- How do you contest it?
- You file for a fair hearing.
- Okay.
That's insane.
- So your beef is not with me, the beef is with the law.
Now the law that I'm citing you, that I'm telling you,
is that the rent allotment
for one person
may not exceed $150.
This is state law, and this is what your beef is,
you wish to either question my...
- No, I wish to get that $150, period.
- Then you would have to go and, you know,
that's what it is.
Your contention is you're entitled to that,
you're willing to make up the difference.
- Yeah.
- And what I'm contending is that
it's not, you know, they're not gonna go for that,
you can ask them, that's what they're there for.
Okay?
- I don't know.
Well, it just seems if you work
and if your rent is over a certain amount,
you have the problem.
- Established in 1937.
Ain't a thing but old charity.
- What?
- Thanks a lot.
- It has to be the sixth.
Okay?
- Thank you.
- Okay, you're welcome.
I don't know.
- 26.
- You don't have no place to live?
- No, I have no place to live.
That's why I'm here by the welfare now,
to see that I get me a place to live
so I can live like a decent human being, you know?
Not because I feel like I have a right to.
But I think when you be in this country,
I think you have a right to
if you're American or they're not.
And I believe in that, you know.
I think this country is a good country
who really would like to help, you know?
But right now they don't know about me.
So I have to go there and find out,
because when you got here on a plane,
they not declare you for crazy,
but eh, you never can tell with the doctors
what they might find, you know.
I mean I don't
knife and the ax, you know?
I'm not that crazy yet.
But I'm a nice guy, you know.
I just want to be in the fairly good conditions
like any person has the right to, you know.
So.
Although if they don't like me anymore,
I guess they have to send me back to Germany.
But I don't think they will do that,
because I am too long in this country.
So.
So they don't want to send me to Germany,
and they don't me to give any here.
See.
I think I better look for a nice tree to hang.
That must be a nice good hanging place, you know?
But it's got a little short down in here
when you're getting any air.
Oh oh, that's.
- But that'll only last for a few moments
if you choose that way.
- Mm, well, it'll only last for a few moments,
but it takes a long time to be down there and dead.
- Oh sure, a long time...
- You never come up there.
You never come back again.
You'll just be down there forever,
and that's the way that goes.
And I guess everybody has that luck too.
I think so.
I'm positively sure of it.
'Cause everybody has to die, you know?
There's nothing you or me can do about it.
It just comes around.
'Cause see god is not a man like the social service,
you know?
He doesn't come around and say well, this man is poor,
let's give him a couple of hundred bucks.
No, he only helps you when he feels like,
and sometimes, he...
- Sometimes he does.
- He wants you to die too, oh yeah,
and there's nothing you can do about it
because he is god, he made the human being, right?
And he can do what he feels like, you know?
And there's nothing anybody can do about it.
Even Jesus Christ, you know?
You ask him, he would say well,
you're not, you have to die,
because you cannot fool around with god that much.
You have to be all the time good.
Well, once in a while you can be bad and he forgive you.
- Once in a while.
- Oh yeah, he forgive you, you know?
But you better not do something real bad.
Then he says all right,
down in hell you go, and you never come back.
- But you've been a pretty good man, haven't you?
- Well, but right now when you ask me...
- You wonder.
- How do you feel in your head?
I said well, I don't feel like going to a nut house,
but I wish I could see a doctor.
Maybe I could go to a hospital.
- Maybe welfare can help you see a doctor.
- Yeah, maybe they'll send me to a hospital, you know,
and I get treated by a doctor, you know?
Maybe it is something wrong from an accident I had,
you know?
I don't know.
I just walk around.
One time I went downtown, I blacked out.
- You walked all the way downtown?
- They stole from me $50, two packs of cigarettes,
my driver's license, everything is gone.
The only proof I have is
my passport from Germany,
that's all what they could really get.
But I got an American license in there too.
- And how old is your passport?
I imagine it's...
- Oh, it's still good until '76.
- Until '76.
- Yeah.
- Antonio Sanchez.
- Constance Jackson, Constance Jackson.
Jackson.
Franciso Supilvia.
- Lilian?
Mary Corman.
Mary Corman.
Check it Miss Corman to see if it's correct.
Because she's pregnant doesn't mean
she automatically gets welfare,
she has to answer a few questions,
and that's what was happening when she got up and left.
- But she's been pregnant since, see, since October of...
Somewhere along the line, either Waverly or lower Manhattan
or not understanding the problem.
The immediate problem for her is food for her baby, right?
- If she's eligible, she has to be eligible,
and we want a few questions answered,
and in the middle of the interview she got up and left.
Now what do you want me to do?
- I want you to give her food for her baby, right?
- She has to be eligible before she gets food for the baby.
- But she is eligible, she showed you a prenatal form.
- Okay, so someone is pregnant,
they just come into welfare and get money?
Is that in the rulebook now?
I must be missing something, 'cause I've never seen it.
- Well you show me in writing,
you show me in writing that she's not eligible,
why isn't she eligible?
- Who's showed you in writing that she's not eligible?
- What?
- What are you talking about,
what do you mean she's not eligible?
- You say that she's ineligible,
you show me why she's not eligible.
- Said she was being asked a few questions,
and in the middle of the interview...
- About her husband?
That's secondary, about her husband.
- Do you have a complaint?
- I have a complaint, yes.
- Well what do you want to do about it?
- Well what I want to do, if you can't answer for me,
I want somebody that can answer it for me, why you can't...
- Apply and be interviewed,
if she's willing to come back she'll be interviewed again.
- But why wasn't the interview finished?
- 'Cause she got up and left in the middle of the interview.
- Because you were asking her about her husband.
She wants food for her baby, right?
- The baby's not even born, how's the baby gonna eat?
- She needs food and she needs a layout and so forth.
According to the rules and regulations that I know of,
the first thing that's primary
is getting food for her baby, right?
Secondary is finding out about the husband,
as far as I'm concerned/
- Why...
- Now if you can't answer it, can you direct me
to somebody that can help her?
- Does the client want to be interviewed again?
- Well she'll have to wait until this worker's
able to call her again.
- Oh by the way, another thing happened,
on Friday she just saw her come in on Friday,
I came down here in person and got an interview for her,
and when she came in on Friday she was turned away,
she was turned away.
- In person and got an interview for her?
Was it...
- I came down here and I talked to the people at the desk
and they said that they would interview her on Friday.
She came in on Friday, they said we can't interview
because we're working on charts.
- Well this is the first time you've...
- I don't put clients through a hoop.
What?
- Are you assuming that we are?
- I assume that you are if you're interviewing her
and torturing her by asking about her husband and so forth...
- I don't think that's torture.
- I think it is.
- Oh.
Well I don't think it's torture to ask somebody...
- Well close to it, anyway.
But anyways, will you see her today?
- Why don't you have a seat in the waiting area
and when she's finished whatever she's doing,
and when she has nobody else to call,
she'll call her again,
but she's gotta go through all these slips.
'Cause she left in the middle of her interview.
When she's finished with all these slips
she'll then call the client back, okay?
- You know, keep as firm as you can,
and I'll try to find out, I'm gonna try to get
a social worker to call downtown
to find out what's happening,
because yours is a special case,
you're the first case that I know of
in which you're in the federal system
and you're pregnant and you're gonna have a baby, you know,
and somewhere along the line,
you have to receive money for that unborn child,
and in the past, ADC mothers were given
allowances four months after they're pregnant.
Now you're being denied this,
and I want to find out the reason why.
So just be a little calm and if they come up to you
and say that they can't do anything for you today,
come up and see me, and meanwhile I'll try calling
the prenatal clinic at...
- I think you're too late because they went to lunch
and like she's taking a long time,
she's got about six to eight people before she's, you know,
call me again.
And that'll be around 4:00.
- Well I'm gonna call Mr. Ing again and find out
what we can get you, you know, a little ahead of time.
Try to be patient, okay?
And I'll do my best.
- All right, thank you very much.
- You're welcome.
- Hello.
Could Mr. Shupulski be seen there by our clients
to change the lease?
The client is Massandra Oppelheim.
All right, this is the problem,
Mrs. Rivera is the tenant that you have,
but Mrs. Rivera moved out October,
and our client is saying that her husband
from whom she's separated
got the apartment from his sister,
the landlord has not been informed of this,
I'm calling to inform him
and ask him if he'll put the lease in the name of Oppenheim.
I know this, but I'm asking you,
if I send her there can these arrangements be made?
- When is your appointment for Manpower
to get a physical examination?
- On the 20th.
- On the 20th.
- Of next month.
From here to then...
- When did you lose your job?
- About three days, two days ago,
she told me don't want to use me anymore.
She told me she's tired of me...
- In other words your situation has changed
since the last time you came here.
- Oh god, has it changed.
- Well then what do you think,
we're magic, that we guess at what your problems are?
- No, it's not the idea of you guessing,
it's the idea that you verbally promised my wife,
you told my wife don't worry, go home with your husband,
we're gonna give...
We're gonna send you a check by that amount
so you can be able to eat and this until you go to Manpower.
Now I turn around...
- Does the wife have an application?
- I don't know whether we checked it out.
- Check it out.
- We'll have to give an appointment for the interview today.
Give this fellow an appointment
for the interview group today.
No no, all right, all right.
Give him one now, because he's supposed to
see the interview group.
She'll give you an appointment.
Let me go over and talk to Elaine about it.
- Okay.
- You didn't get any part of your check?
Not the probation check either?
- When did he last get paid?
- I don't know, but you better call up the landlord
and find out whether this is actually so.
He said he lost it two or three days ago.
- Well he's not supposed to get paid until the 10th.
That's what she said...
- Well you better call up the landlord
and find out what it is
because if he doesn't have anything,
we'll have to give him something.
- And then Miss Robinson had called about that case
and I was going to...
- She mention it was my office?
- No.
- Well it's very strange that the social worker
didn't mention over the phone that he was laid off.
- Well, you better check it out anyway, because...
- Well, he has to be seen right now,
meanwhile I only have two or three workers in,
I need some workers.
And also she's leaving in half a day,
she's gotta go to disaster training or something.
- Who has to go to disaster training?
- Roz.
- What kind of disaster training?
- You know the thing where you go
every six months or something
in case there's a fire, flood or something.
- Well, we'll keep her here today,
she can find out some other time.
Well who does she have to go to see disaster...
- Roz, excuse me.
What's this thing with disaster training?
Can you take another day?
Or is it definitely today?
- Definitely today.
- Well we can't release her today.
- It's...
- Boy, look at this book.
- I'm telling you, it's a whole thing.
- That's for disaster training?
- Yeah, here, I got notes, I got
in case of disaster, I man the telephones,
we have artificial telephone calls
coming in from central office.
I swear, we answer it, and we have to go back and...
- How long do you have to be there?
- All afternoon.
I go twice a year.
Yeah, they sent...
December 14, '72, and today is February 4th.
And the last time I went was February '72, twice a year.
- Look, is he...
Is Arcardia Rivera here or just the wife?
- He's here.
- Did he keep his Manpower appointment?
He gets no money until...
- No, he's not going there until the 20th.
But you better check him out anyway, just to make sure.
- So what do I do with this?
- We need some more workers.
Frank Farkas hasn't called in.
- Frank Farkas hasn't called, all right,
we'll try to get Petey Barry.
- All right.
- Oh, I have notes, I have...
- We'll get Peter Barry and let's see, who else...
- How about Larry Janice?
- How about Larry Janice, all right.
I'll see if I can get him.
- Suderman Ally.
Miss Ally, you're gonna have to go back
to Waverly Welfare Center, we're very sorry,
it was a mistake.
Take this message back.
- He's legally responsible
to take care of the children.
- We know that.
- And her, as long as she's married.
- Yes.
That's why she got.
She's got another time but he didn't show up.
- It has to be in the court's hands
as long as he's getting income
and then he's not using it while he's in the hospital,
it's for the children, it's for the use of his children.
- What is the alternative, what's she gonna do?
Take the check from him
if he don't want to give them to her?
What's the alternative, she's been to court.
- When did they go to court?
- Yesterday.
- We went yesterday and went last week.
- What did the court say?
- He didn't show up, they sent out a warrant for him.
- Well he's in the hospital.
- Well what do you want her to do if he don't show up?
And he got the checks and won't give them to her.
- The only thing I can suggest is that,
I talked to the application supervisor and she said
if you feel you've been treated...
- Of course we feel, why do you think we're back here now?
- You have to apply for a fair hearing.
- Oh, in the meantime, what they gonna do
with a fair hearing, what they gonna do, starve to death?
He's in the hospital, she's sick,
she got diabetes, she got arthritis, she got heart trouble.
What is she supposed to do
while she waiting for a fair hearing?
Since November I've been running around with this woman.
- You know, you're making it sound
like it's my fault.
I'm telling you...
- Well it's not my fault either.
It's not his fault he's in the hospital.
It's not her fault she's sick.
Whose fault is it?
- I'm telling you what they're telling me,
they have...
- Who is responsible for her?
If her husband is sick, he's in the hospital,
and she's...
- He's getting disability payments from the union.
- Can she take the checks from him?
- He is legally responsible for her security.
- That's why she take him to court,
because he's not taking care of his legal responsibilities.
- It's in the hands of the court.
- The court sent her here.
I have a letter from the court telling her to come here.
- Well now this is before the case was rejected,
the case was rejected on the 24th,
and this was given to her...
- That's the day I came here.
- When you rejected her she had this letter.
- And told me to go here, social security,
and that's where I went.
- She went to social security,
social security sent her back here.
They're gonna take care of her.
- Well social security is evaluating her application,
that's a different thing altogether.
- Okay, so meanwhile who is responsible for her?
- Mr. Gaskin.
- He's in the hospital, as you very well know.
- I understand he's in the hospital.
- Now what is she supposed to do?
- Checks are coming...
- Go down there and take checks that don't belong to her?
They belong to him.
- He has a responsibility...
- He don't want to give them to her.
We're going into a vicious cycle again,
and I'm getting tired of it.
- Well, as I said before,
you'd have to apply for a fair hearing.
- Oh, and how long is a fair hearing gonna take,
and what's she gonna do in the meanwhile,
while she's waiting for the fair hearing?
She's been coming here since November.
- Well it's her responsibility to try to get...
- What do you think she's trying to do?
Why do you think she's going to court?
- You keep shouting at me and you don't...
- You're sending me around into a vicious cycle,
I'm trying to tell you her hands are tied.
- I'm not sending you...
- She is sick, he is sick, who is gonna take care of them?
- I am not sending you anywhere.
- You're telling me now to wait for a fair hearing,
what's she gonna do in the meanwhile?
- Well, you have to ask
the application supervisor to re-entertain the application.
- What do you think I'm here for now?
Why am I talking to you now for this?
- You're shouting at me.
- I'm gonna do more shouting if you don't stop this.
Ever since November.
You talking about shouting,
I've been trying to take care of this woman,
what do you want from me?
Sending us around all over to these different places
and they sending us back around in circles.
- Where are you supposed to go?
- That's what I want to know, she said go to court,
she went to court.
Go to social security, they sent her back here.
They up there sitting on their behinds upstairs,
that's why they can't do nothing for nobody.
Have you sitting here all damn day,
and then sending you all around the courts
and the courts send you here.
She refused you.
- It doesn't mean she's getting any, and she's got a point.
She did go to court, she's got proof in her hand
that she went to court.
So that's why I'm suggesting
you re-entertain the application.
- Okay, however, we want to know,
we didn't know where she's even living
at the present time.
- Well that you evaluate...
- And I think she's living uptown.
- She may very well be living uptown,
but you don't know until you interview her
and ascertain her whereabouts.
- Well, she's paying rent, is she paying rent now?
- You can check through the court
what address she applied from.
- Yeah.
What is it, $87 she's getting a week?
- No, it's in his name, it's a union benefit.
- Right.
- In his name.
- But if he is hospitalized,
why isn't she getting that money?
- It's not, see we cannot tell him,
the court's telling him to give it.
- Yeah, but we want to call up the social worker.
You have a seat that side, please.
- We're discussing it, Miss Casker,
just wait outside over there.
- Excuse me?
- I told you that wasn't the same daughter.
- Send her back home to what?
- All right, do we have to call the hospital to find out
if he actually is hospitalized?
- No, the only place I called was the union.
- All right.
- But see the check is in his name.
- Yeah, however, if he's hospitalized all the time,
where are those checks going
and who is cashing those checks?
- If he's coming home on weekends, he may be...
We don't know.
- Did we verify that he's coming home on weekends?
- That's what she said and I didn't verify a thing,
I just got to her this morning, she stormed on my upstairs.
- On the fourth floor?
- The daughter?
- Yeah, the daughter.
- The money is in his name,
if it was in her name it would be different.
- No, if it's in his name,
he is responsible for his wife and his children.
- He is, but that's why she went to the court,
because he's not giving her a penny.
She has the slip from the court.
- All right, tell her to get a slip desk.
- Now they're telling me to go to work
while I got a letter from the doctor
saying I'm not supposed to be working.
- And went and tore your letter up?
- And she went and tore the letter yesterday.
- Another letter.
- Ask the supervisor.
- Get another letter.
Letter in an envelope.
- Yeah, I'm gonna get another one,
the doctor told me to pick one up today, yeah.
- My father is sick.
He's in the hospital since November,
I been running back and forth with this woman for months,
but they send us back in a circle,
we go to court, from the court to the hospital,
from the hospital to social security to welfare
back to social security to the hospital to the court,
she don't have one dime,
and we're all suffering trying to take care of her.
You know when you try to help yourself,
they don't help you at all.
- And what they do is give me a runaround too.
- That's how it is, that's just the whole damn system.
When you try to help yourself, nobody helps you.
- Not only that, but then if I come around
and then she comes to tear the letter
and I beat the brains out of her, then I got to jail.
- Then you gonna go to jail, and then where's your wife?
Right back in the circle again.
- No, and then they gotta help her
whether they like it or not.
- Well I guess that's what you gotta do.
You gotta do it, you gotta do it.
- That's what I'm gonna have to do.
- I gotta come here with my mother,
I got children I gotta take care of,
all my family got children.
My mother is a woman that had 15 children.
She took care of every one of them.
My father worked like a slave.
He's sick, he's gotta go through this?
I gotta go through this?
No.
Somebody gonna do something for her.
And I'm not gonna leave here
and I'm not gonna go not one more day,
because I am tired and she's tired,
and we got the kids out of school,
they don't even have no shoes.
What do they want from us?
I know you're tired because I am, and I'm just...
- The welfare department
is actually the New York runaround.
- You better believe it 'cause that's all you gonna get
is a runaround.
Did you go upstairs?
- No, I don't go upstairs.
- You'll go up thee one day.
- Sometimes they don't even allow us
to be on certain points.
- They get angry with you because
you're interrupting their coffee break.
I made the mistake of interrupting their coffee break
one day when I went there.
I I said then.
You know and they tell me come back tomorrow morning.
- Stop kicking.
Stop kicking.
You stop kicking.
You stop kicking, you stop kicking.
- Yeah, she lives in,
she's here on a temporary basis
because her husband works here in New York,
but she lives in North Carolina.
Her husband lives in New York, that's why.
- Excuse me please.
Miss Silver, would you...
I asked Mrs. Gaskin for proof that she's living
at 89 Lancomo, she has...
- This is a housing project?
What address did you give the court as your home address?
- The Liliville address.
- How long were you in North Carolina?
- I'm not here to stay, I'm only here on a temporary basis.
- Then why are you even in New York?
- Because I'm sick, I've been, wait a minute, wait a minute.
When I was living here, let me explain it to you.
-, Mrs. Gaskin?
- Three years ago, yes.
- All right.
So for the last three years, you've been living
in North Carolina?
- Yes, but I've been,
you can verify it.
- In the first part of November.
- Came back the first part of November.
Why'd you come back to New York?
- I had to come to the doctor, and when I came here...
- This is the only doctor that can take care of you?
- That's the only doctor...
- And what do you suffer from?
- Don't you see it on there?
- Diabetes, I mean no other doctor in North Carolina
can take care of you?
- Well it was too expensive.
- Do you mind if I explain it...
- No, I do mind.
You mean you came all the way back to New York
to go to Nina Health Clinic
because there's no other doctor?
- I'm trying to tell her now.
The reason why I went to North Carolina to live,
we were living in the housing projects...
- In New York.
- Yes, my husband was working,
every time he got a raise, they wanted a raise,
so he decided he wanted me to move.
- He decided what?
- He wanted her to move.
- So in order to move down there,
he had to go to the VA,
the VA lent him money to buy his house.
- Was VA welfare?
- I don't know, I didn't take care of that business.
- All right, he might've been on welfare
in the veterans' administration.
It's a form of welfare.
All right.
- He got money from the VA,
the VA lent him money to buy his house,
it's not paid for yet.
- Oh, to buy his house.
If you can get accepted on welfare in New York,
which I don't know, you're gonna have to sign over
that whole entire house to the department of welfare
in New York.
- It's not my house.
- You are co-owner of it, aren't you?
- My husband is the one that...
- Well you will have to sign over that house.
You'll have to bring the deed to welfare.
- I don't have the deed,
this is what I'm telling you, I don't have anything.
- You'll have to go to your husband who's hospitalized
and get the deed.
- Didn't I tell you that every time
I went to the hospital, they tells me
I'm not to bother with him?
How can I get anything if they don't let me to?
- For anybody who has a resource such as a house
or a co-op or anything like that, they must sign it over
to the department before they can get assistance,
that is considered a resource.
You have money invested in that house.
Look, I don't know too much about resources,
we've got a resource consultant, excuse me.
- You can tell her that she can sign over
a house that belongs to her husband?
- Her husband's responsible for her,
and the children have to go on...
- That's why we had to go to court.
She is very much aware of that.
She can't make him give her anything.
- We would like to see the deed,
see whose name is there...
- Then you can get it from him yourself,
he won't give her anything.
- He didn't even show up in court,
that's why I'm back here.
- She was in court yesterday with him, he did not show up.
What do you expect from her, to take the deed from him?
If he maintains that he's not gonna give her anything.
You're the one that told her
to take his checks out of the mailbox, right?
What do you want her to do?
- The interview cannot continue.
- What do you want her to do?
- I am just telling you this.
- Take money from him?
- I am not yelling
and there's no reason for you to continue yelling.
- Why should you yell?
- If you're yelling the interview will not continue.
- Why should you yell?
You're gonna tell her that she must go...
- If you continue raising your voice...
- You are telling her,
you are telling her,
she don't want to talk about it.
You see, and my voice is down.
- Come back tomorrow...
- No, I'm not gonna come back tomorrow.
You are telling her to go and break in the mailbox
and take the man's checks.
How can you tell my mother take his checks?
You see how she walks away from me?
How you gonna tell her to take his checks
out of his mailbox, when his name is on them?
He said he's not gonna take care of her,
she's taking him to court.
- My papers.
Miss.
Will you give me my papers back?
My letter, give it back to me please.
- It's easy for her, she's not gonna use this as no cop out,
after she gonna tell her to break into the mailbox
and take some checks that don't even belong to her.
And if the checks...
If the house, she told me,
if the man has got the deed to the house and he maintains it
he's not gonna give it to her,
what is she supposed to take it from him?
Huh?
I'll go up and see the what you call 'em again.
She wants some excuse to walk out of here
after she gonna tell you to break in some mailboxes
and take stuff that's not even yours.
- What she wanted me to do.
- And going to tell you, how you gonna make him
sign over a house?
Let her go over there and tell him to sign the house over.
- Well your problem is being taken care of
by the other lady that went upstairs.
- Yeah, but I want to know what's the problem with me...
- Excuse me, let me just speak, let me just speak.
His wife's is being accepted through the mail,
and he should leave the center.
He will be getting a check in the mail.
So as far as I'm concerned, this case is over with.
- All right.
Well anyway, the worker's been talking to him...
- Well the worker walked away, no.
The worker is not seeing him anymore.
- No, she didn't walk away for no reason
because I was quiet.
- She went upstairs...
- I was quiet.
- I know where my worker went.
My worker is not gonna see him anymore.
- Why don't you talk to...
Who's your supervisor down here?
Who's your supervisor down here?
- Wait, wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Wait, let me just talk.
- Go over there and sit down and be cool, all right?
- Look, I am the supervisor and I know where my worker went.
The worker told the clients to leave the area.
He's walking away.
The worker asked the clients to leave the area.
The termination of the case was made,
they will get a check in the mail.
Now he is carrying on disrupting
and I would like him removed from...
- Let's take care of this problem
we're dealing with now.
- Which problem do you want to take care of first?
- The one you're having right now.
- I'm having two problems right now,
which is quite obvious.
- What she wants to do is she wants to cop out.
- Which one are you gonna deal with now?
- All right, you want to deal with these people?
- Me?
You asking me?
- Workers cannot work, and there's a whole
commotion around here.
- Let's take care of the problem
that you're doing now.
- Which problem is that?
These people?
- Whichever one you're taking here.
- Okay, these people will be interviewed
any time they want to lower their voices
and conduct the interview in a low voice.
- Now when I lowed my voice
she still insisted on walking away.
She's just using this as a cop out.
She's gonna tell my mother to go and break in a mailbox
and take some checks that don't even belong to her,
that belong to my father.
She's gonna say she wants the house, okay.
My mother don't own the house,
how can she give her the house?
- Are you finished now?
- Listen, go over there and sit down
and wait for your wife and people to come down, all right?
- Wait...
- Do you have a supervisor.
- Yeah, I'm the supervisor.
- All right,
well why don't you deal with them?
Because I'm the patrolman here.
The only thing I can do, there's an arrest to be made,
I'm here.
Otherwise social workers social workers.
- Excuse me, Mr. Val, Sergeant, whatever you are...
- No, my workers will not work
if this man sits there without an interview.
The interviewer is not coming back.
The interview is over, Miss Bale walked away.
- Listen, let's deal with what you have here.
This man is...
Go over there man, go over there and stay over there.
Let's deal with what you have no.
- Okay, this interview will continue
any time they lower their voice
and conduct the interview in a low voice.
- I lowered my voice and she still persisted...
- How long do you have to be there
to make sure somebody's voice isn't being raised?
- Who's taking care of this lady?
Nobody?
- Miss was talking to them
but they continued to cause a scene
and have a very loud voice and they're disrupting.
- When I told you that you told me...
- All right, can we try it again?
Can we try it again without any problems?
- I would like for you to at least sit in on it
because she's asking questions,
she wants my mother to sign over something
that don't belong to her.
- Excuse me, what it is, they own a house in North Carolina
and I told them the resource policy concerning it.
- If you own something.
- All right, but just a moment, just a moment.
We understand that.
It's not that my mother's not cooperating.
My mother never signed any paper.
Why don't she get it from my father?
She don't have the right to give him anything.
- Where is your father?
- In the hospital, she knows where he's at.
She knows this.
- What's the problem on the whole case?
- The problem is I asked...
I went to the hospital because my husband
was in the hospital, I asked the people at the hospital
that told me about my health,
and they told me to go to welfare.
So I didn't go to welfare, I went to court first,
they gave me a referral to come here,
when I came in Monday they told me
to go back to social security.
Social security told me, give me a referral
to come back here and said get for the children
and not for me.
They wouldn't give me...
- Because she said she can get some social security.
- Was this an ADC case for the two children, or what?
- Yes, I have two children.
- Two children?
- What's the story?
- All I know is her legal residence is North Carolina
New York 'cause she's here on a visit.
It seems to me that's the story.
- My father works here,
and he was sending her money to North Carolina,
after he took sick, after he got sick.
- And there are no doctors in North Carolina
and the only doctors that can take care
of her diabetic condition is a New York doctor,
so she came up here.
- The doctor there was too expensive.
- She's dramatizing things.
- I had a doctor there before,
but I had a doctor here, and...
- Your legal residence is in North Carolina?
- But my husband is here.
- It's yours, it's yours.
- I don't know how it's done.
- They own a house in North Carolina,
so I would assume it's a source of legal residence.
- Were they on welfare in...
- She claims no.
- She claims no, did we check it out?
- No we haven't done so as yet.
She claims that her husband was sending her checks,
and now her husband is hospitalized and can no longer
send her checks.
- He's in the hospital.
- Can he write us a letter?
- I don't know, see, when I went to the hospital...
- We'll have somebody visit him in the hospital...
- To see his social worker.
- If they will lower their voice
and continue the interview.
- All right, all right.
Let's all be quiet, let's sit down,
let's see if we can get this show on the road.
- And you request that we lower our voices.
I request that you stop being so dramatic
and putting words into my mother's mouth
saying things she did not say.
She never told you there's no other doctor
in North Carolina, don't be like that.
- Well we're never going to get anyplace this way.
Let's continue the interview.
- All right, let's solve the other problem.
Miss Bale is not continuing that interview over there,
the determination on the case was made
and I want the patrolman removing those clients,
the man over there.
We can't remove him till 5:00.
- This waiting area is over there, I...
- We'll put him, I'll put him in the waiting area.
- Well, you...
Let's sit down and interview this client.
- Well, Bates is doing it, they go back there.
- Since I can't hear she's been giving me a hard time
because she just don't like me, I guess.
This is the first time I come here and even yelling.
Women here three, since October I've been
going back and forth, and they've been giving me
the same rap.
Bring another letter, so I bring another letter.
That's not the one, bring this one, so I bring that one.
- You've got the runaround since October,
we've only seen you this month, right?
So obviously other people are giving you runarounds.
- Yeah.
- It's very strange,
everybody's giving you runarounds.
You were in another center, you were in Waverly.
- I was over here, and they closed my case...
- All right, I'll tell you something.
See all centers work the same and all centers want proof,
they just don't hand out money.
And we're not the only center who does it.
- I got all the proof you want here.
- Every center works by certain rules
and regulations and procedures.
And when you come in to us, we all work the same way.
The other center that gave you runaround
since September or October,
and now you think we're giving you the runaround,
but we're only working in the same way
that they are working.
Okay.
This is it.
Okay, I...
- Because you're not bringing the information we need.
That doesn't mean...
- May I ask you something, you said that my sponsor
is legally for me, well he's my guardian, right?
- Your sponsor is more responsible for you
than welfare is, and we like to have contact with him
before we give you money.
- Then why is it that when my sponsor,
I could not get permission to marry with my sponsor?
- Yeah, you tell us that.
- If he's responsible for me, why couldn't...
- I don't know, I'm not a marriage counselor,
I don't know anything about marriages or anything like that.
I know about welfare.
- How long you think it'll take us to get help?
At least, man.
This is...
- We've accepted your case now.
I mean, you're just killing a dead horse.
- I'm just asking you because I'm tight, man.
I'm really tight for money,
I'll show you what I got in my pocket,
and what I have ate all day today since I been here,
you see?
That's what I got in my name, you understand?
That's all.
I'll pull out my wallet and I'll show you the same thing.
I don't have a dime to my name, practically.
- Get a job.
- Yeah, you want to help me get a job?
- That's your only vocabulary, get a job,
to everybody that comes in here.
- What about the letter the doctor sent you?
That said that I wasn't able to go to work
because I have to be rehabilitated?
- Inconclusive doctor's statement.
That's why we're giving you a medical examination.
- You are really inconclusive.
All I wanted to do is get help until I get on my feet,
and believe me, I wouldn't be here after you.
Man, I wish I were by myself now.
- If you were by yourself she'd gladly help you.
- Of course, if I were by myself she might just do that,
help me then.
I'm a man, am I?
Now sir, what do you suggest, I go home of course.
- We're accepting her case.
Let's leave it at that.
Let's not bring it any further, let's not quarrel about it,
the fact is her case is being accepted,
we're not refusing it.
But there were certain other items
like the letter from her uncle that we need.
That's all there is to it.
- Okay, then for the bills that I got,
all the doctor bills, what I'll do, I just hold onto them?
I got plenty of bills, sir.
- Right now there's nothing much we can do about your bills
until we find out whether you're eligible or not.
She's eligible.
- But the meantime is that since October,
I've been, you know what I've been doing?
I have to sell my medication, my medicine, you understand?
And I'm not about to go to jail for nobody anymore,
you understand?
- Right, right.
- That's what they're gonna make me do here.
- That's up to you.
I mean, the path you take is up to you.
We've accepted her.
Now if the situation changes and we accept you,
that's a different story, but right now...
- Hold up, I really, all I want right now
is concerned that I get something to help her,
you understand?
- We're not accepting your case,
we can't give you a Medicaid card.
- If you accept her now you can give her
a Medicaid card.
Not me.
- She's getting a Medicaid card.
She'll get one.
- Okay.
Okay.
That's settled then.
Then I'll go home.
- Okay now.
- Thank you.
- All right.
- No, we can't give you an appointment, it's too late.
You have to come back tomorrow.
Right?
I said I don't have any money, I got 10 cents,
my rent is due tomorrow, I have nothing to live on.
I haven't eaten for three days.
- You just told me you had a ripped off Corvette.
- I got caught ripping off Corvettes
for $110 worth of stuff.
- And they let you go, right?
- That's right, I spent two hours explaining
how I ripped off the other four stores
over the last six months.
- And you just ripped off...
You said you ripped off Woolworth last night.
- Today.
Seven bars of chocolate.
- Seven bars of chocolate.
- I ate three and I gave four away.
- And you believe it's right to steal, right?
No.
Absolutely wrong.
Absolutely wrong to steal.
- You just told me before.
- Did I say it was right?
I said it was necessary.
There's a difference between right and necessary.
- Why's it necessary?
- Because I don't have the money to buy
what I have to steal, because the social service department
doesn't see fit, or the Social Security Administration
doesn't see fit to give me enough money to live on.
- You're a social security case now.
- Yeah.
- So why do you come to welfare?
- They sent me.
With a referral slip.
Which was stolen last night along with $1 billion worth
of original research that I've been working on
for three years.
Psychic research.
Mind control research.
In a red folder.
Stuff that it was hand written.
- Why don't you go downstairs, make an appointment,
do what's right, make an appointment with legal people.
- For tomorrow.
- Yeah, do what's right.
- What do I do for tonight?
What do I do for rent money?
What do I do for food money?
I haven't eaten in three days now.
Except what I steal.
Except what I steal, I can't steal a chicken.
I can't steal a steak, it doesn't fit in my pocket.
I can only steal Hershey bars,
and cheap packages of cheese,
and you know, cans of fruit.
- Mr. Hirsch, there's nothing we can do for you.
- I know.
- Nothing we can do, I'm sorry.
- I know you can't.
Social security can't because I'm over the maximum.
You can't because it's too late.
- You received a check from us recently.
- No, I didn't, it was sent back.
$147.35.
I never got it.
It was sent to the hotel I was at,
but I had to check out because I didn't get it on the 16th.
It came on the 18th, and I wasn't there anymore
because I didn't have the money for the rent.
So the manager sent it back on the 19th,
and then Mr. Vagen for some reason
sent me to social security, I don't know why.
Without any money.
Without ever seeing that check.
- It's my understanding you received a check.
- I never received any check.
- Then discuss it with Mr. Vagen, don't discuss it with me.
- Where's Mr. Vagen?
- He'll be here shortly.
Have a wait outside.
- Yeah, why not?
I'll wait.
I've been waiting for the last 124 days
since I got out of the hospital.
Waiting for something.
Gadot?
I mean you know what happens in the story of Gadot,
he never came.
That's what I'm waiting for, something that'll never come.
Equity, justice.
Justice.
Under this great democratic society of ours
where everybody is equal under the law, you know.
Lincoln said that, didn't he?
All men are created equal?
Lincoln never took an army physical, you know.
You should know that.
Equal, what's equality?
Equality is when somebody has and somebody hasn't,
and the one that hasn't tries to rip off the one that has.
And the one that has tries to keep what he's got.
And there's nothing in the middle anymore.
You either have it or you don't have it.
You know.
It's not a matter of middle, you know,
there's no middle class anymore,
there's just the rich and the poor.
And I'm one of the poor.
In fact destitute, not poor.
And I don't like the feeling.
Not with 22 years of education behind me.
Not with 17 years of service to this state.
Not with a $23,000 plus income when I was working.
Plus my private practice which brought in
another three or four thousand.
No, but after being in the hospital
for seven months and eight days up until September,
and not being considered fit to go back to work,
and having to resign rather than be fired...
- Sit outside now.
- I only got another 11 days to go
until they fire me from that 17 year job.
- Go and sit down.
- You're the law, man.
You're the man.
Everybody's the man when you don't have anything.
Everybody's the boss.
If it doesn't change in the next 15 years by 1988,
there will be no United States of America,
there will be nobody here worth saving.
Everybody who was worth saving will be someplace else,
and I'll be the first to leave.
Because for 40 years and seven months I've tried.
God knows I've tried to help.
Now I can't even help myself, let alone anybody else.
How can you help anybody on 11 cents?
Five days.
Lord, I don't know, but you still don't want me to live.
You still don't want me to do anything that I want to do.
Still want me to do your thing.
And suffer.
I gotta suffer for everybody else who's gone before.
Okay, if that's what you want,
that's the way it's gonna be.
We've had this agreement for a while now.
I'm not backing down.
If you want to that's your business.
I'll stay with it until it's over.
Whenever that is.
And if you don't want me to eat,
if you don't want me to sleep,
if you don't want me to work,
I won't.
And if you want me to keep wandering
the way we've been wandering for 5735 years
I'll keep wandering.
You know that doesn't bother me.
Even if there's no one, no one in this whole world
that listens to me, I'll wander.
Until you're ready to decide where I belong.
A place, a home.
People, friends.
Whenever that'll be.
I got all the time in the world.
And thank god all the patience.
And the strength, and the understanding.
Thank you.