Thought Crimes: The Case of the Cannibal Cop (2015) - full transcript

( music playing )

( computer chimes )

Man:
When you're behind a computer
screen late at night,

no one knows
who you are,

where you are.

I became part of
this cyber community

where people are exploring
deviant thoughts

and exploring
their fetishes.

I'm not the only one out there
with these thoughts.

They were accepted.

The anonymity makes you



try and outdo
the other person...

who could be
the sicker one,

who could be
the more depraved one.

The baby was sleeping,
the mom was sleeping,

there was
just nothing to do.

And you shut
the computer off
and that's it...

I go back to being
the regular me.

But someone might say
the anonymous nature

could also bring out
who you really are.

In my worst nightmare,

I could never have guessed
that this would've happened.

Reporter:
Breaking news, an almost
unbelievable story.

A New York City police officer
has been arrested

in a failed plot
to kidnap dozens of women,



cook them,
and then eat them.

Reporter #2:
Gilberto Valle has become
known as the "Cannibal Cop."

The 28-year-old's wife
uncovered the alleged plot.

Reporter #3:
Charged in a conspiracy
to commit kidnapping,

and allegedly
used NYPD computers

to get information
on a list of victims.

Reporter #4:
Defense lawyers did not deny
his online activity

but called it
a sexual fantasy

that he would never
act on.

Woman:
These are thoughts,
very ugly thoughts,

but we don't
prosecute people
for their thoughts.

Reporter:
It comes down to this.

Is this guy
just fantasizing,

or is there enough
evidence to suggest

he was really
planning to do this?

Man:
There's nothing
we like better than,

at least in fiction,
a killer.

You know, the worst,
meanest, baddest,

roughest, toughest,
serial killer in the world...

let's get inside
their heart and mind

and figure out exactly
what they're about.

And there are
story archetypes

that we all sort of
adhere to.

Gil, as the Cannibal Cop,
was typed as well,

whether it was
the monster of the week

or as this week's
Hannibal Lecter,

or as a master criminal,

or as a vicious beast
who needed to be controlled.

Not only was
this someone

who seemed to
have been planning

to abduct and eat his wife
and other women,

but the idea of him
wandering around with a badge

was something so devious
that it was unbelievable.

Shocked.

But then when it actually
made it to trial,

there were two sides
to this story.

And when the defense
stood up and said

this is
a thought police case,

then suddenly it got
even more theatrical

and more interesting.

It was the best
that true crime
has to offer,

because it was
about a crazy side
of human behavior

that we don't get to see,

and that's
what was happening
in real life here.

( music playing )

Woman:
Papa! Come here, look!

Woman:
Audio's good?

Man:
Just give me a check one,
check two.

Check one, check two.

- Woman: Ready to go?
- Mm-hmm.

There were lot of myths
about what was going on here.

You get a picture painted
in your head,

you get a story.

And you just start,

once you have
that initial concept,

once you have
that preconceived notion,

you start to seek out
pieces of information

that go with that,
that jibe with it,

and you disregard things
that go against that.

You know, I want everyone

to have all the facts
in front of them

before they make up
their minds for themselves.

I grew up
in Queens, New York.

My parents separated
at an early age.

Oh, wow!

Mom was more soft love.

You know, she was there for
emotional support.

Dad would be the one
to kick you in the butt.

He was very,
you know, strict,

and we didn't want to
disappoint my dad.

Reporter:
Valle's arrest comes after
the FBI obtained

detailed accounts
of the barbaric plans.

The government says
Valle made his sick plans

in online chat rooms.

His father, in disbelief.

- Of course, I'm shocked.
- Is it possible?

I don't think so.

Gil Valle, Sr.:
As a parent, now that
all this has happened,

a lot of different things
come into the mind.

Is he crazy?

You know, all this stuff
coming together.

What is he?
Is he crazy?

Woman:
How did you feel
when you heard

the first allegations
about cannibalism
and kidnapping?

I couldn't believe it.
I said, "That's not my son."

I'm, like,
"There's gotta be a mistake.
That's not my son."

Gileto, mama kiss.

Gileto kiss.
Gileto kiss.

The first time
I actually heard these
Internet chats...

that's when I noticed,

I'm like, "Okay, my son
did have a problem."

For the good boy
that I know

to be discussing women
in such a way,

it was just horrible.

But if anything,
he needed help.

See a psychiatrist.
See a therapist.

I mean, I'm not saying
whether it's right or wrong,

but you know,
some people choose

to let out their frustrations
by going to the gym,

punching a punching bag.

That might work for them.

For some it might be

getting on a site
like this

and fantasizing,
you know,

thoughts of...

horrible thoughts like that.

Well, he created a monster.

He's a good writer.

I mean, how could
anybody believe

that one person
is gonna kidnap
a hundred women

and cook and eat
a hundred women.

Which one was
in the trunk of his car?

Which one was
in the spit over the fire?

Which one was in the oven?

Man: The fact
that he's sitting there

in his apartment

while his wife
and baby are asleep
in the next room,

and he's talking about,

you know,
slitting her throat,

and the fact
that he's going around
in his police uniform

all contribute to a sense
of dread around it.

But was he involved in
the planning of a real crime?

And at what point is it
appropriate to step in?

There was
no real-world attempt.

But when they went through
his computer,

they found 24 sets
of conversations.

In 21 of them people said,
"Hey, is this for real?"

And Gil Valle said,
"No, this is a fantasy.

No matter what I say,
it's all make believe."

But in three,
he never said that.

In fact,
there were some moments
in those chats

where one of the participants
would say,

"Hey are you for real?"

And Gil Valle would say,
yes, he was.

That could seem
like evidence

that this was
a real conspiracy.

We do not have thought crime
in this country.

We do not prosecute people
for what they think.

It is permissible to have
all of the thoughts

from a criminal law enforcement
point of view

that Gilberto Valle had.

What's impermissible is
planning with another person

to execute on those thoughts.

Two charges had been
brought against him,

conspiracy to kidnap,

as well as an unauthorized use
of a law enforcement database

in order to gain
some information about
one of the victims.

Man: Conspiracy
is the prosecutor's
favorite instrument.

In order to be convicted
of an attempt,

you have to not only
intend to do it,

but you have to go
beyond preparation

and cross a line that suggests
that you're gonna do it

unless something stops you.

Conspiracy allows you
to move that line back.

If two people
just talk about doing
something terrible

and agree to do it,

and then take one overt act,

they can be prosecuted
and put in jail

for the rest of their lives.

Woman:
The overt act doesn't have
to be a crime itself.

You know,
it's not like you say
"Let's go rob a bank,"

and the overt act then
is you steal a car

to be a getaway car.

It could be
something that is entirely
lawful otherwise,

it just might have
special meaning here.

DeMarco:
The defendant talked about

disabling his victims
using chloroform.

He then searched
"how to make chloroform".

The defendants
talked about stalking
their victims,

and in fact
there was a search

of a proprietary
law enforcement-only database

as to where
one of the victims lived.

This is not a simple case

of where you're
going after somebody

just who thought
some evil thoughts.

He took lots of steps
in the direction

of possibly doing
terrible things.

Engber:
He traveled to Maryland

to visit one of
the alleged intended victims.

This target
of his supposed plot

was his college friend.

If you think
this is a dangerous,
dangerous man,

then everything
that he did in real life

takes on this really
ominous color to it.

This trip to Maryland
with his wife and baby

could seem like
a recon mission

for a murderous
kidnapping plot.

If he in fact was planning

to kill somebody specifically,

then all of these
would be overt acts

within any meaning
of the law.

The question is
what was in his mind?

And I'm not sure he knew.

Reporter :
Opening statements today

in the trial
of the Cannibal Cop.

Reporter #2:
In the words of both
the prosecution

and defense attorneys,

this is going to be
a bizarre trial.

Woman:
I don't get to draw
nudes very often.

I usually see people
sitting in a chair

looking straight ahead
at a judge.

But I got to do
people on spits,

women being cooked
and roasted,

and visuals
of Dark Fetish Net.

If you pull in,
you could see
little naked bodies.

It's pretty amazing.

I've never really
seen anything like that
in a trial.

Man:
There were reporters there

from all over the country.

We'd heard a lot
about this case,

but now all of it
was being laid out

in front of us
for the first time.

There were three
alleged co-conspirators.

Michael Van Hise,

somebody in Pakistan
known as AliKhan,

and a man in England
known as Moody Blues.

He had this plan written out
for how to kidnap women.

He was planning on building
a pulley apparatus

in his basement
to string women up

and torture them
and slow roast them.

Says he had a giant oven

that he planned on
stuffing these women into.

It all sounded crazy,
but potentially true.

Woman:
We had a tome of the chats
copied for us.

And we were in
the position to determine

how much of it was real

and how much
of it was fantasy.

I think we all agreed,
this man has a problem.

This is sick.
This is really quite sick.

But we weren't there
to convict on his sick mind.

We were there to convict
on a conspiracy to kidnap,

and kill,
and maim, and rape.

What made it very real

was that he took pictures

from real people in his life

and shared them
on these sites.

And that, for me,
takes it past fantasy.

He had what was
called a blueprint,

and he had made a list
of what he needed.

He had the ability to
retrieve all these materials.

That made it
very real to us

that any one of these women

could have been
a true victim of his.

Gregorian:
Alisa Friscia early on

became major figure
in the case.

Investigators said
Gil had been stalking her.

Kolker:
When Gil starts
talking money

with Michael Van Hise,

that shift in tone
is chilling.

He's suddenly very, you know,
grisly and mechanical,

and let's talk turkey,

here's how
we're gonna get it done.

And that feels like
things are starting
to get more real.

These fantasies
were really, really scary.

And the level of detail
that Gil talked about

and that other people
talked about on the Internet

was also really,
really scary.

The reality, of course...

coming back to reality...

is that none of the things

that they said
ever came to pass.

They often missed dates.

"They said,
"Okay, I'll call you
on Tuesday,

and we'll do
something then."

And then nothing
happens on Tuesday.

Nothing happens
for three Tuesdays.

And then nothing
ever happens at all.

These are fantasies.

Gregorian:
There was no giant oven

that could fit
somebody inside of it.

There was no pulley apparatus
being set up in the basement.

In fact,
the basement was
a laundry room

for everyone
in his Queens apartment
building to use,

and wouldn't be
a very good torture chamber.

Let's put it this way,

if this was done
on Craigslist,

you would know you
were being scammed.

He didn't have
any of the things
you would need

according to his
own blueprints and plans
on how to do this.

He made up
false information.

It wouldn't be effective.

Valle:
You read about the case,

you read about these chats,
and you're horrified.

You're turned off.
You want to step away.

And you're just like,
"This guy is a monster."

You know, whatever.

Yeah, this is
depraved language

and unconventional thoughts,

but there's no evidence.

Reporter:
Shock in the courtroom.

Guilty of conspiracy
to commit kidnapping.

Also guilty
of wrongfully accessing
a federal database.

Liz Valle:
I almost froze in time.

And all I kept hearing was,

"Guilty, guilty, guilty."

For me to see
him in shackles,

it's heartbreaking.

But, you know,
through all this

I haven't cried until now.

And I feel like
I want to scream.

I never let it out.

He's not a cannibal.

He never ate anyone.

Isn't that
the true definition
of a cannibal,

is someone
that eats human meat?

Reporter:
How are you doing?

Out of all due respect,
how are you doing?

Look at me.

I'm strong.

Valle:
I went back to the prison,

and that's when
I broke down.

I didn't want to do
it in front of my family,

but I broke down.

I hear a couple law officer
stalking outside.

One of them comes in says,
"Valle got convicted."

And another one says,
"Get the fuck out.

I thought that guy
was going home."

Obviously the
case involved thoughts
that were unusual

and bizarre
and frankly very ugly.

And I...

we think that the jury
just couldn't get past that.

Gatto: The conviction
was devastating

to everyone
on the defense team.

You're representing
a human being

whose liberty
is on the line,

and when you lose,

you lost it for
this human being.

I just think the jury

didn't want to have
the "What if?" moment.

Sure, he didn't act
in the real world.

Sure, this was
all in cyberspace.

But what if?

We were always worried

that thought would prevail

over an objective,
rational,

non-emotional
view of the evidence.

People can be prosecuted

for their thoughts
and convicted,

which is even sadder
to think about.

Recording:
This call is from
a federal prison.

Valle on phone:
At this point,

I'm pretty depressed
every day.

Everyone thinks
I'm facing sentencing.

You know, technically,
I'm not yet.

I'm still waiting to hear
from the judge.

They keep saying
a couple weeks more,

and then it gets
pushed back,

and it gets pushed back again,
and again, and again.

Julia emailed me
and she said

she doesn't think
it's gonna be good.

The Cannibal Cop case

really raises
the big question,

what is the line between
thought and action?

Right? Between
fantasy and crime.

And it's so gray.

In a case where
there's no victim,

there's no harm,

was there enough
evidence to show

there had been
an overt act?

Engber:
The government was saying

that all of
his Google searches
were overt acts

in furtherance
of a conspiracy.

Gil at some point is thinking
about eating people

and he starts typing,

"How do you abduct a girl."

He starts doing research
into chloroform

and baking pans

and knives for cutting
people up.

But the idea
that a Google search

would constitute
an overt act,

I think, is dangerous.

That's where you get
into thought crime.

Kolker:
When we think about
thought crime,

we think about, you know,
George Orwell and "1984",

you think about
the thought police.

You think about
being put away

simply because of something
that's in your head.

Thought crime
in the modern age,

in the post
George Orwell age,

becomes more
of a question of technology

and its power to see
what's on our minds

much more often
than it used to be able to.

Woman: It's possible
for the Internet

to know more about you
than your best friend does,

than your family members do,

because what you type in
the Google search box

is often a very,
very private thing.

Things you wouldn't even tell
your friends and family.

Engber:
His wife is typing in
things like,

"My husband
doesn't love me."

It's very sad to see,

but I think it shows
that Google searching

is just an extension

of the thoughts
we have in our heads.

Sometimes we're sitting
at our computer alone

and we just type them in.

Kolker:
A lot of the searches
that Gil was doing

are as open to interpretation
as those chats are.

And one of the cases
made by the defense

was that this was
storytelling.

That the
Dark Fetish Network

was some sort of communitarian
storytelling exercise.

The same way that
the prosecution is arguing

that the chats are a window
into Gil's thoughts,

we can also
look at literature

as a window into
the author's thoughts.

Someone like Stephen King

can write any number
of disturbing things

about human behavior,

and nobody's
putting him in jail.

Why is it that
we're fascinated

by stories about violence?

If you read,
if you view movies,

our stories move us
immediately into a safe space

where we can imagine
the worst thing possible,

our darkest side.

Man: All these
violent stories go back to

what our most basic
primal feelings are.

We have propensity
for violence.

We have propensity for
all sorts of horrible acts.

But if you can act on
those urges in stories,

then you don't act on them
in real life... in theory.

Tatar:
The Cannibal Cop case
worries me because

we're entering a new era,

and it's almost
uncharted territory.

It's always been fairly easy

for us to draw a line
between fantasy and reality.

I mean, there are
the stories and images,

and then there's
what happens in real life.

Well, we are in
the postmodern era,

where these boundaries
are becoming

more and more
difficult to draw.

Murphy:
It's a daunting
prospect to think

that everything
we do on the Internet

is in fact a window

into our true
authentic selves.

It's more that
the Internet invites us

to be both who we are
and who we are not.

The fear that a space
for open trading of fantasy

becomes instead a policed zone
in which, you know,

your thoughts may signal
your future action

is a real one.

If we don't
protect that space,

I think we'll find ourselves
in a much different society

than the one that many of us
thought we signed up for.

Anybody should be allowed
to write a dirty story
on the Internet,

or have a dirty fantasy,

even if it's gruesome
and tasteless

and not something
you would necessarily

want to talk to your mum
about over dinner.

That's fine.

It stops being fine

when other real people
are involved.

That this guy
used police databases
to track down women,

and he used his privileges

as an officer of the law
to do that,

oh, it just sends
a shiver down my spine.

I just can't...
I just can't even.

It's an extraordinary
breach of trust

between the police
as an entity

and the public at large.

It wasn't just
thought crime.

It was real crime.

The idea that everything
that happens

on the Internet
is fantasy

and it's not really real
is dangerous.

It's just another way
of not wanting to
confront the fact

that these evil thoughts
and behaviors exist

within human beings.

It's not a product
of technology

or possession by the devil

or any kind
of outside force.

It comes from us.
The darkness comes from us.

Look what I still have...
his police uniform.

I don't know
why I kept it.

Well, we're not
going to wear that.

Certainly not.

This doesn't...
Oh, do I have to iron now?

Oh, God.

I'm so nervous.

The judge is making
a decision today.

I called my family.
I called my closest friends.

I'm like, "Pray for me.
Pray for me."

Because if there's
going to be bad news,

I've been holding up
all this time, Erin.

I've been holding up
and I've been strong,

but if I were
to get bad news,

"I think that would be
the end of me."

I just want to give him
a really big hug,

that nobody tells me,

"Ma'am, ma'am,
you got to leave."

You know? I just want
to hold onto him.

I hope he doesn't
have to spend

one more night
in that cell.

Julia did say that,
you know,

if the news is bad,

we still have
other options.

And what I said to
her is, like,

"Well, in the meantime,

my son is sitting
in jail."

Another year?
Another two years?
How much longer?

It's going to be
a media frenzy,

but I'm not
talking to anyone.

Reporter:
Can you tell us
what you know

is going to
happen this morning?

No.

Watch the steps,
please.

Gil Valle, Sr.:
I want to see him
not be a felon.

I want to see him
be acquitted.

He didn't commit
any crimes.

Valle:
I'd like to make a very,
very brief statement.

I want to take
this opportunity
to apologize

to everyone who
has been hurt, shocked,

and offended by
my infantile actions.

I also want
to thank my family.

From day one,
their support never wavered.

I've needed that
more than you...

anyone will ever know during
this impossible situation.

Forgive me, I'm tired.

I want to go home
and spend some time
with my family.

Thank you very much.

Reporter:
After 17 months in jail,

do you feel
that justice has
been done?

Cohen:
Granting a judgment
of acquittal

on sufficiency
of evidence grounds,

which is what
the judge granted,

is very, very unusual.

And it was
front page news.

And an acquittal
means what?

It means you're
not guilty. Okay?

Doesn't mean
that you're innocent.

One could interpret
at least some of
the things Gil did

as something that wasn't
completely consistent
with innocence.

It could be considered
an overt act

when he went
to the police database
looking for targets.

How are you gonna feel
if you let him off

and he goes
out and eats somebody?

Valle:
Those people have been there
since 7 this morning.

Even though I'm acquitted,
I'm in home confinement.

You know,
I haven't really gotten
the cabin fever yet,

but, yeah, I mean,
a day like today,

I'd love to be outside,
obviously.

Liz Valle:
Last night, I'm home,
and my son is here,

and I thought
I was dreaming.

I couldn't believe it.

Until this morning
when he's like,

"Ma, I need underwear.

Ma, I need this.
Ma, I need that."

- I didn't know
where anything was.
- My boy is home!

- I didn't know
where anything was.
- My boy is home!

Everything got packed up
from my apartment.

- I wasn't there.
- He doesn't know
where anything is.

There we go.

Nobody's alarmed
that I have a fork
in my hand

with people around?
Everyone's good?

- All right
- Be careful.

- You gotta laugh about it.
- Of course.

He's a danger
to society.

The victims
are in danger.

Valle:
I read the ruling
late last night.

I mean, the judge
just slammed them.

Somewhere
in the page 80s

there's like five
straight paragraphs

where he ends
all of them with, uh,

this can only make sense
as a fantasy role-play.

It means...
it makes no sense

whatsoever
in a real conspiracy.

He ends, like,
five straight paragraphs
like that.

- All right.
- Bye, Julia. Thank you.

Bye, everyone.
Thanks, take care.

Liz:
Does this come off?
Or we have to wait

- I don't know.
- for the government's appeal?

No, we have to wait
for the appeal.

Oh.

That could be...
that could be months.

Mm-hmm.

Valle: This is something
that was private, anonymous,

it was a little bit
of a skeleton in my closet,

and now here, everything...
this massive skeleton is out.

It's the epitome
of embarrassment
to sit in that trial

and have all these emails
and chats read.

I mean, it was like,
"Did I... how the hell

did I come up with
something like that?"

It was...

It was... it was bad.

I really don't know how
I came across it at first.

But, um...

it was there,
I tried it out...

and people thought
I was pretty good.

People accepted it,
you know?

I mean, yeah,
I had a stressful job,

but uh, I don't know how much
that played into all that.

You know, I could've
gone out and got drunk.

I could've stayed up
and watched TV.

So I don't know
if that had to do
with a lot of it.

Woman:
Sexual fetishism

is where our id comes out
to play sexually.

An item, a predicament,

a mood triggers an arousal

that is much greater
than a simple bodily arousal.

It's really difficult
to understand

why someone
would be interested

in something like that.

Man: A lot of people
have asked the question,

"Where does
this come from?"

because they think
that something went wrong.

Some abuse, some trauma,
bad parenting,

many things
have been blamed.

Woman:
Gileto fell down.

Because we don't know clearly
where things come from,

there's a lot of room
for interpretation,

and there's a lot of room
for judgment,

and a lot of room
for saying things like,

"They chose this.

This is something
that they could un-choose."

But we don't choose
what we're aroused by.

- ( man growls )
- ( laughing )

- ( growls )
- ( laughing )

Man:
We live in a very Victorian,

puritanical culture
when it comes to sexuality.

The overt part of
our culture

sexually is very open.

We exploit it,
we talk about it,

we model it,
we advertise with it.

It's in our music.
It's in our art.

It's in our television.
It's in our movies.

But covertly,
I think people are pretty
uncomfortable

with their own sexuality.

And when you
juxtapose that schism

between overt expression
and covert inhibition,

I think that's what creates
sexual pathology,

and sexual problems,

and sexually-compulsive
behavior.

Woman: Did Gil
ever ask you questions

about sex growing up?

Not really.

When he went to college,

I got him a box of Trojans,
you know?

I said, "Be careful.
Don't use them all at once."

I don't know.
Something like that.

But he just laughed
and took them.

Blue:
It sounds to me

like he was raised
in an atmosphere

where people didn't
really talk about sex

and anything
that fell outside

of what was
considered acceptable

was horrifying, shameful,

and something's wrong with me
and I'm broken.

Liz:
I thought about what led him
to get on these sites,

and I wonder if
it had anything to do
with our divorce.

Woman:
Why did you guys decide
to get divorced?

I really don't want
to get into that.

Valle:
I was very young,

so I didn't really understand
what was going on.

My memories of them

involve a lot of arguments,
unfortunately.

Weren't many happy times.

Liz:
His dad was very possessive,

controlling,
and verbally abusive.

I didn't want my son
to grow up thinking

that that's how
you treat a woman.

I mean is he going to
talk about it?

Is he going to admit that,

"Yes, that's what
made me do it?"

Or "The devil made
me do it?"

No. Just kidding.

Valle:
People try to explain
why this happened,

I try and explain it,
and it's tough sometimes.

I guess the most
important thing I got
out of these chats,

if there's anything
I got out of it all
was just acceptance.

This is the first time
I'm really opening up

about all kinds
of freaky stuff.

You know, cannibalism
and bondage.

All these years
it's all bottled up

and here I had my chance

to finally talk
to somebody about it.

It was such a relief
to get it off my chest.

When you're typing it,

you don't really
think about it.

You're just sort of
in the moment.

But as soon as
the computer went off,
it's over.

You know,
I'm the person who I am.

I'm incapable
of any violence.

I couldn't hurt a fly.

Kolker:
Something that the defense
really has to reckon with

is even if he's innocent
of planning a kidnapping,

he's still admittedly
very interested in kidnapping.

He's on the record
talking about it all the time.

He can't get
it out of his mind.

How do you prove
that he would never do
this in the future?

In the ramp-up
to the trial,

they were concerned
that this might break down

into a he said,
she said kind of case,

where the defense would say,
"He's harmless."

And the prosecution
would say, "He's harmful."

And what they really wanted
was the voice of God

to come down
from on high and say,

"I've looked at the guy

and he's as nice
as you and me."

And that's what they got
with Park Dietz.

He is a titan in the field.

He's interviewed
John Hinckley, Jr.,

He's interviewed
Joel Rifkin.

He's interviewed
Andrea Yates.

And almost without exception,
he works for the prosecution.

That he would draw
the conclusion he drew,

which is that this guy's
as safe as you and me.

That's a huge deal.

But then, when the trial
actually happened,

they decided not
to bring him on the stand.

Man:
Were Dr. Dietz to have
actually testified

that deviant sexual fantasy
doesn't relate at all

to those who
sadistically rape

and who
sadistically murder,

he would've been slaughtered
on cross-examination.

Dr. Dietz himself has written
about how people

with sexually violent
intentions...

not just fantasies,
but offenders to-be,

may seek out
law enforcement positions

because of their ability
to more easily access prey.

But the defense suggests
that Officer Valle

was indulging
in these cannibalistic
chats and websites

because he was coping?

So let me get this right.

This kind of behavior
is coping?

You show me
one sex offender
treatment program

that tells people
go on the Internet

and cope with your deviant
sexual arousal

by just engaging with chats
about cannibalism, people.

Just... boy,
what a therapeutic remedy.

Woman:
A psychiatrist that was
retained by the defense

said that looking
at these websites

was a way to cope
with those urges.

In your experience
have you heard
of anything like this?

Uh, no.

I have not heard
of anything like that.

I don't know
that I would say

that looking
at those websites

is a way to cope with
or manage those urges.

I would personally
not prescribe

that to a patient and say,

"Well, if you're having
these violent fantasies,

just look at websites online

and that'll help quell
those thoughts and urges."

In fact, I would
wonder whether it would
excite those urges.

If you exercise
certain neural-pathways,

what happens is there's
a certain reward circuitry

that gets activated
in the brain,

and when you reach
a certain threshold,

it becomes a habitual
or compulsive pattern.

And the pathways
to the prefrontal cortex

that are responsible
for judgment and reasoning

and making good decisions
shut down simultaneously.

So you have a combination
of elevated,

pleasurable stimuli
in the brain

with poor judgment,

and that's kind of
a perfect storm for problems.

What is the
capacity of people

who are otherwise strangers,

just connected by chat room
or Internet connection,

to influence someone
into crime from fantasy?

Some fantasies
remain fantasies.

Some fantasies graduate.

The website or
the chat or the activity

is no longer interesting
to them in the same way.

But acting on it
would be.

Greenfield:
The connection between
fantasy online

and subsequent acting out
is impossible to predict.

You can't just assume
that fantasy means

that they will enact
a behavior,

but you can't also assume
that they will not.

And I will be the first
to tell you,

in psychology and psychiatry,

we are not good at predicting
violent behavior.

Valle:
"The highly unusual facts
of this case

reflect the Internet age
in which we live.

Valle had discussed kidnapping,
torturing, raping,

murdering, cannibalizing women
with 24 individuals.

At trial,
the government conceded

that 21 of these
communications

are nothing more
than fantasy role-play.

The government
nonetheless contends

that Valle's communications
with Van Hise, AliKhan,

and Moody Blues reflect a real
kidnapping conspiracy.

Because the government did not
offer sufficient evidence

to permit a reasonable juror
to distinguish between

Valle's alleged real chats
and his conceived fantasy chats,

"the jury's verdict
on count one cannot stand."

I like when he says...
when he ends with that.

The jury's
verdict cannot stand.
Must not stand.

I just hope the government
doesn't appeal this

and this is officially over,
you know?

Right now we have that
looming over our heads.

Until this thing comes off,
it's not over.

You know?

Go to the beach. Right?

Make my cross-country trip.

Yeah, those'll be good times
when it happens.

Man:
Gil. Gil.

Okay.

Dada, Dada.

Welner:
Perhaps the most significant
aspect of this story

is that Valle's sexuality
was hidden.

If one has to wall off
an entire aspect

of what turns them on,

then one has a fundamentally
dishonest relationship

with their partner.

And when you have
a dishonest relationship
with your partner,

you may be able
to maintain appearances,

but the story
is never going to end well.

Kathleen Valle:
He always said that
because he got home late

he couldn't go
right to sleep,

so he would play video games,
watch TV,

go on the Internet
for a couple of hours.

Then after I got pregnant,
it kept getting worse.

He would stay up until 3,
4, 5 in the morning

or just not come to sleep
in our bed.

And then all
this really weird stuff
started happening.

She had installed spyware
on the computer,

and, you know,
she found the chats,

everything that
this case is about.

She found it all.

Kathleen:
It logged every keystroke

that is made
on the computer,

and every website
that is visited,

and takes pictures
every five minutes or so

of whatever's happening on
the computer screen.

There were all
of these websites
that I'd never seen.

Dark Fetish Net,
Sexy Amazons,

Dark Fet,
Motherless, Fet Life.

I mean, I know S&M
is kind of popular,

like "50 Shades of Grey",
you know?

But this seemed different.

The girl on the front page
was dead.

I noticed on one
of the screen pictures
that was taken

an email address
that I didn't know about.

So I went to Yahoo! Mail

and entered the password
that Gil had told me

to use for everything.

All of a sudden
I was staring at pictures
of my friends.

Pictures of people
we knew.

There were thousands.

She confronted me
that morning

and left with the baby.

I didn't really know
what she was planning on doing

or how long she was
planning on staying.

We did stay in touch
throughout.

Welner:
Partners may question
themselves and say,

"Well, why didn't
I see this before?"

But we've had
an unexpected proximity

to a side that
he doesn't show to others,

wouldn't even
show to his wife.

Kathleen:
I was going to be tied up
by my feet,

and my throat slit.

They would have fun watching
the blood gush out of me.

Over and over again,
just kept saying that

the suffering
was for his enjoyment.

That he wanted to make it last
as long as possible.

That he had no remorse.

Valle:
It was tough
to listen to her,

you know, talk about
our relationship.

We were together
for three years,

I thought they were
three wonderful years.

Yeah, I would
do this at night,

but it didn't affect
my personal life at all.

It didn't affect my job.
It didn't affect my family.

Um...

I was still
the good husband.

I was still
the good father.

I was still
doing great at work.

Welner:
It's hard to say
what to do

with the input
of a law enforcement officer

who's an accused
sex offender.

Every person charged
with crime will deny,

rationalize, and distort
facts and details,

in order to make
his behavior acceptable.

"I'm doing this
on the Internet,

but you know I'm doing it

because my wife
is sleeping with our newborn."

"Oh, I get it. "

"He gets it."

As far as sleeping,

I started talking
to this guy from England.

So, it was as simple
and banal as that...

the time difference.

So I would start
chatting with him.

Over there
it's 8 in the morning.

Over here it's 2:00.

Normally,
I'd be done by then,

but now I'm playing a game
with this guy,

and, you know,
so I'd stay up
a little later.

And that's all it was.

Valle:
Isn't that amazing?
And it's the truth?

The day she puts
the spyware on
is the day I...

I'm like,
I'm moving on from this.

Because like I said before,

um, it was starting
to affect my family life

in that I was
staying up later.

And I didn't want...

I always said
once it starts...

if it ever affects
my family,

"it's got to go."

So it had to go.

And that day...
if I'd done it a day sooner,

none of this
would've happened.

Isn't that incredible?

I told that to my lawyers
and Dietz, and, you know,

I'm not making that up.

That's the God-honest truth,
on my daughter's life.

I went on that day
to delete everything.

It's almost like
there's a higher power

who said that
this had to happen,

and maybe one day
we'll know why.

You know, I honestly
don't know about this guy.

I mean, this guy...

I mean, I think the fact

that they got him off
on that defense

is pretty lucky for him.

It's pretty unusual

to have that kind of level

of violent thought
and fantasy

and to get off
on the defense...

I would not be shocked
if he ends up back in jail.

It disturbs me
that Mr. Valle is out.

You know,
do I worry for harm?

Not really. Um...

But, you know,
he's a disturbed man.

We as the jury
were confident

that from what we had,
what we were given,

we made the best
decision we could.

And when it was overturned
by the judge,

I felt betrayed.

It was a very
difficult decision.

We were not in agreement
from the very beginning.

Some felt more strongly
that he was guilty.

Others needed
much more proof.

Ultimately, the weight of it

was that this decision

was going to
ruin this man's life.

When the trial ended

and the judge
read the charges,

before we even talked
about anything,

we wanted everyone to understand
what the charges were,

and what needed
to be satisfied
in order to convict.

Illegal use of
his police database...

the entire jury agreed

that he was guilty
immediately.

And it was just
the conspiracy charge

that we really needed
to take our time with.

We dissected the chats

that he had
with various people.

And this particular
line of chats

with Moody Blues

was very different
from the others.

We collectively
as a jury felt the tone
had changed.

We read them over and over
and over again.

And even the people reading them
had to stop at some point

because it...
we just couldn't take it.

It was very, very hard.

He was taking the steps

to take it
to that next level...

to make his fantasy
become real.

How long does one wait
till one goes through with it?

The trip to Maryland
was planned to meet
this college friend,

and he was bringing
his wife and his daughter
along on this trip.

The defense maintained
that this was just a trip
to visit a friend.

But his chats
with Moody Blues

indicated that
he couldn't wait
to go see her,

that he couldn't wait
to think about what he was
going to do to her,

and also find out
where she worked,

and get some
more background
information.

It was proven
that he did drive by
her office,

because he had
texted to her about,
"Was that your building?"

Apparently the building
has some significance
on this road.

He did meet her
for brunch with his wife
and his daughter.

And all seemed normal,

just friends getting together
and talking,

and her meeting his wife
and his daughter.

A normal person
in real life comes back
from a road trip,

they've been driving,

they've been
with their family
and their baby,

and they come home,
and they unpack,

and they relax,

and they figure out
what they're gonna
do for dinner.

Based on the timeline,

this man went straight
to his computer

and straight to
his friend to chat,

almost like he was
reporting in.

And you could tell
he was excited about it.

The fact that
he came back from this trip

and one of first things he did
was write to Moody Blues

was enough to say that
he had made this trip,

he had a purpose
for this trip,

he satisfied that purpose,

and he shared
it with his conspirator.

And that, I think, ultimately
led to his downfall.

You know, we sort
of expected this.

I mean, we felt good,
maybe they wouldn't,

but this just buys
them more time.

Liz:
That looks delish.

You know, I gave myself
a couple hours just to be down,

but, you know,
if I'm down they win.

So I don't want to
let them win.

I don't want
to let them win
anything, you know?

Even in jail, I said
that all the time.

Like, if I'm down,
the government's winning.

Oh, that's a lot.

- Okay.
- I always overdo things.

I guess Mom can get used
to having me at home.

I can get used to this.
Real quick.

( laughs )

I'm gonna be stuck in here
for how many more months?

You know,
I was looking at possibly
going out this weekend.

I mean,
I thought it was over,
and it's not over.

It doesn't mean
they're gonna go through
with it, don't forget.

They're smart people.
They have to know I'm innocent.

They have to know
there's no evidence.

They have
to know they screwed up.

Maybe they're thinking,
"How would it look
if we just dropped it?"

In a sense they
had to go through with this
just to save face.

You know,
what are they gonna do,

B.S. the court of appeals
now in paperwork?

They can B.S. a jury.
They can't B.S. judges.

Dershowitz:
My father always taught me
to defend the underdog.

And the underdog's always
the person who is on trial

with all the resources
of the state,

the police,
the prosecution,

being used
against that person.

I think juries have
often been unwilling

to apply the presumption
of innocence.

When I have a jury,
the first question I ask is,

"If the evidence shows that
the defendant probably did it,

will you convict?"

And many of the jurors say,
"Of course, we will."

I say, "Strike that juror."

"Probably" isn't enough.

You have to be willing
to free somebody

who will probably
do something bad

and who has probably
done something bad.

"Probably" just isn't enough.

Better 10 guilty go free

than one innocent
be wrongly confined.

We just can't allow
our system

to begin to err on the side

of putting people in jail

if they might not
commit crimes.

Valle:
They said that the line
between fantasy

and reality crossed

when he had lunch
with the girl in Maryland.

So that makes
it seem like, shit,

when Gil had the lunch
with this girl,

you know,
maybe he was thinking
about something.

As far as coinciding
with the chat,

I knew, like, yeah,
I had the chat,

but, you know,

I was with my wife
and daughter,

nothing ever
happened at the brunch.

They made the whole
weekend out to be
a surveillance episode.

I went down Friday night.

I'd seen... I saw five
people that weekend.

We did things,
Kathleen, as a family
down in Maryland,

and the whole weekend
was about surveillance.

I mean, it's just...

Right.

Kolker:
When the prosecution makes
a big deal of him

using this computer
to look up information
about these women,

yes, it's a violation,
and, yes, it's a crime.

But looking at
the timeline between

when he actually
did those searches

and when he was having chats
about those women

with other people on
the Dark Fetish Network?

It's not exactly clear
that he's planning anything.

They might've had
more of a case

if he'd looked up
that information

and then five minutes later

there's a record
of him emailing

somebody from
the Dark Fetish Network

saying,
"Here's the address."

But he didn't
even give anybody

on the Dark Fetish Network
their addresses.

He didn't even give them
their last names.

There's one potentially
very telling moment
in the chats,

where Moody Blues says,
"What's her address?"

And Gil says,
"I can't do that.

I can't give you that."

Suddenly the bubble bursts.

This is Gil googling someone
he has the hots for.

Only instead of Google
he's using the police computer.

Because he's at work,
and bored, and says,

"Oh, I have
the hots for Kimberly.

I'm going to check out
the information

in the police database
for her."

And so he does.

And that's sick
and creepy and weird,

but is this the action
of a guy

who's planning
and conspiring a kidnapping?

The prosecution
had to convince a jury

beyond a reasonable doubt,

the highest standard
in the law,

he actually was agreeing

to commit the crime
of kidnapping women,

and here in this case,
I don't think they did.

There might be a tendency

to want to punish people
for who we think they are

as opposed to what
they've actually done.

And so this could be a case
where the jury

heard the evidence
and thought,

"I don't maybe
think he was gonna
do it this time,"

but I'm worried he might
do it in the future,

I'm worried about
what kind of person he is.

I don't like this guy.
I think he's creepy.

And so the, you know,

way they resolve that tension
is to convict.

Well, we were
convicting someone

on what he wanted to do,
not what he did.

So we had to believe

that he was going in
that direction

to actually commit
a crime.

It's easier
to make a decision
when you have fact,

beyond a shadow of a doubt,
reasonable doubt.

And there was not anything

that was fully and
completely compelling.

We had to understand this man
through these chats.

When the police
got this information,

absolutely,
they were right
to act on it.

No one in their right mind,
I think,

would suggest when the...

his wife came and said,
"Look what I have...

these disturbing chats,
and my husband, by the way,

is a police officer
with some power,"

that they should've said,

"Go home, ma'am.
No big deal." Right?

What should
they have done?

They should've initiated
an investigation.

It could have been as simple
as an undercover agent

and trying to engage him
and make real plans.

Kolker:
Since Gil's conviction

and since it's been
tossed out,

there's been movement
on other cases

related to
the Dark Fetish Network

where the feds
took the extra step

of creating
a sting operation.

And there've been people
who've been convicted

after they met with agents
to plan a kidnapping.

Engber:
One of them, Asch,

actually went so far
as to create a kit.

He started collecting items
that one might use

in a real abduction
and torture scenario.

He had needles
and handcuffs

and speculums.

He even went and
he bought a stun gun.

You can see that
they took this so much farther
than than Gil did.

It makes you realize
that there is this whole...

so many steps
before you get to actually

lunging out of a car
at someone

and trying to hurt them.

Some very reasonable people

could come
to the conclusion

that unless and until
he's in a car with the rope

and the chloroform

headed to wherever
victim three lives,

it's not enough.

Some reasonable people
could also say

even that's not enough.

It's not enough until
he gets to the doorstep

and actually starts
walking up the steps

and is about to hit
the doorbell and say,

"Hi, it's Gilberto.
Can I come up?"

And some people
would probably even quite
reasonably conclude

that we really don't know

what he's going to do
in that apartment.

Rowland:
There is always
reasonable doubt

about whether or not

someone is going to take
a particular action.

We don't know, right?

And police officers don't have
some magical psychic wand

that allows them
to know, either.

We don't want to give
the government the ability

to decide
what fantasies meet

the thought police's bar
for acceptability.

That bar is rightly high.

Look, if the
first amendment protects
someone fantasizing

about violently raping,

and killing,
and eating a woman,

it's gonna protect
pretty much anything
you're thinking about.

And that's what
principles mean.

They make us uncomfortable,

and we apply them regardless.

We're going down
to court

for my sentencing
for the misdemeanor.

The big news out of today

will be whether or not
this house arrest is over.

Number two,
is the government

going to go through
with their appeal?

( shutters clicking )

Kolker:
The interesting thing

about what's happening
with Gil now

is that he no longer
is just the Cannibal Cop,

he's patient zero in
the thought police epidemic

that might sweep the nation.

We're all determined

to try and stop
horrible tragedies

before they actually happen.

And we feel like
we can do it.

That all we have to do
in the future

is monitor
the right things

and set up enough cameras

and do enough
computer surveillance.

To me that is
an extraordinary assumption
to be making.

Good morning.

Murphy: If we had an MRI
that could read your mind,

would we want to
comb through society

and find the true
deviants among us

who think
these deviant thoughts

and really mean
to execute them

or would execute them
in a perfect environment?

Certainly in
science fiction,

like "Minority Report"

where they talk about
pre-crime,

that's a dystopic vision.

And I think that's because
when you think about it,

it's often hard
for any individual person

to even know themselves

the line between
what they're imagining

and what's real.

It's part of the mystery
of humanity.

Valle: You know there's
been a lot said about me,

when these
allegations came out,

and, you know,
that's not who I really am.

That's never...

people who know me
the best know that,

and I'm ready to show people
who I really am. That's it.

Can you give us some idea
what got you involved

in these issues
in the first place?

- No.
- I'm not gonna comment
on that right now.

Kolker:
One of the most troubling
gray areas of this case

is that most of us
don't understand

why someone would act
on an impulse like this.

I don't think the jurors,
I don't think the media,

I don't think many
people at all

could really
look into his heart

and really understand
Gil as a person.

Is he a harmless
teddy bear of a guy?

Or is he a nefarious
master criminal?

I really don't know.

Look at this beautiful thing
right here. Bare skin.

( woman reading text )

( woman continues )

What makes somebody
an ethical human being

isn't what they think,

but what they choose to do
with the thoughts.

Somebody can be having

the most dark,
depraved thoughts,

but if they don't
do anything about them

or find outlet that is
entirely harmless,

then that doesn't stop them
being a decent human being.

And in the gap between
thought and action,

that's where people
actually discover

what kind of human
being they are.

And I think people
have to be allowed

to make that discovery

and then live
with the consequences.

There's no news yet
with the appeal.

They haven't
submitted anything yet.

Today's the deadline.

So I guess they have
until 11:59.

They'll probably
wait until 11:50.

Bye.

They're gonna appeal.
I mean...

I don't want to
get my hopes up,

but they didn't
mention it in court.

I don't know.

They haven't filed it yet,

but I don't want
to get my hopes up.

It's already been
such a good day.

This really could be
over tonight.

Completely.

They have until midnight,

so we're waiting
until midnight.

Then that's it.

They never asked
for more time.

And, you know,
the thing better
be dismissed.

Nothing we see yet.

Tick tock, tick tock.
Let's go midnight.

Come on.

What an ending it
would be, you know,

if today it would all end.

You know, the supervision
I'm not worried about.

It's not like
I'm gonna go out

and commit a crime
or anything like that.

I have no desire,

not the slightest inkling

to get back on
any fetish website.

Those days are gone.

I don't know.

Nothing will be hanging
over my head anymore.

I fell asleep and I woke up.
It's after 12.

I'm like,
"It's quiet down there."

My heart starts racing.

Valle:
That's concerning...
this is concerning me.

I don't know what this is.

I'm on something called
"Cases Selection Table",

and we're on
the second circuit for sure.

Yeah, I see it.

Yep.

All right. Bye.

They filed it around 7:30.

- Really?
- Yeah.

We were looking at
the wrong thing.

I was expecting that.

This is the same arguments,
you know?

That I conducted
surveillance.

- Oh, dear God.
- Yeah.

So they really want
to make assholes
out of themselves.

I attempted
to establish trust.

It's laughable.

I'm not worried.
Don't worry about it.

Today was enough
of a good day.

I'm not worried
about at all.

All right.
I'll stop by tomorrow,
all right?

All right.
All right, see you.

All right.

Let's hope my cell phone
is not 700 yards

from somebody
I knew in high school.

Everything sort of
overwhelms me sometimes.

With the appeal coming,

and the notoriety that's
now surrounding my life...

sometimes I feel like
someone's watching me.

But the first couple
weeks I was out,

I realized
that no one was really
recognizing me.

So I started
getting more and more
comfortable going out.

And then,
I thought the next step

was to get to dating again.

It's been a long time,
you know?

I think, sometimes
I'm craving a little...

you know, I'm craving
some companionship.

There's nothing wrong
with that.

If I do go, you know,
out with a girl,

at what point
in the dating process

do I bring this
whole thing up?

She either would be,
you know, run for the hills,

or she'd be somewhat curious,
interested.

I don't know.

There have to be
people out there
who are interested.

But some people
are gonna think

I should be locked up
for the rest of my life,

there's no getting
around that.

I made a bad mistake.
A really bad mistake.

But, you know,
it's not gonna cost me
the rest of my life.

( music playing )

Reporter:
Gilberto Valle,

known as the "Cannibal Cop,"

Man:
What's he list under
some of his...

Man #2:
This is even better.

Man:
Under some of his likes?

Cooking is one
of his likes!

Woman:
I love that he said

that he drinks an abnormal
amount of coffee,

like that's a real turn-on.

That strategy
is admitting a flaw
that's harmless.

You don't say
"I like to eat dead women."

You say, "Eh,
I drink too much coffee."

- Then you think,
"Oh, he's honest!"
- And he cares too much.

And he cares too much.
"I care too much."

"I love pets."

Woman: I mean,
this was really a bad guy.

I don't want to be a buzzkill,
but, you know, ew.

I have no idea.

♪ And, baby,
you'd better believe ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in
the New York groove ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in
the New York groove ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in
the New York groove ♪

♪ Back ♪

♪ In the New York groove ♪

♪ In the New York groove ♪

♪ In the back
of my Cadillac ♪

♪ A wicked lady
sitting by my side ♪

♪ Saying,
"Where are we?"♪

♪ Stop at 3rd and 43 ♪

♪ Exit to the night ♪

♪ It's gonna be ecstasy ♪

♪ This place
was meant for me ♪

- ♪ Ooh ♪
- ♪ Feels so good
tonight ♪

- ♪ Ooh ♪
- ♪ Who cares about
tomorrow? ♪

♪ So, baby,
you'd better believe ♪

♪ I'm back ♪

♪ Back in
the New York groove ♪

♪ New York groove ♪

- ♪ I'm back ♪
- ♪ New York ♪

♪ Back in
the New York groove ♪

♪ New York groove ♪

- ♪ I'm back ♪
- ♪ New York ♪

♪ Back in
the New York groove ♪

♪ New York groove ♪

♪ Back ♪

♪ In the New York
groove ♪

♪ In the New York
groove. ♪