The Son (2019) - full transcript

A 50-year-old painter named Lorenzo decides to rebuild his life after hard times. Anxious about the son he will have with his new wife, during pregnancy, she begins to have a certain ...


- Water?
- No.

- Are you sure?
- Yes. Thank you.


- It's early. I'm gonna go to the studio.
- Okay.

It's almost 8:00.

Okay. I'll go get a shower.

Honey. Do you mind if I don't go?

We won't stay long. Come on.

I have to wake up early.

I know, but...

You know I haven't kept in touch,
come with me.

I want them to meet you
and they want to meet you, too.

Come on, do it for me.


This way, ma'am.

Follow me, please.

- Good morning.
- Good morning.

- Lorenzo Roy's belongings, please.
- Yes.

- Here you are.
- That's all?

That's it for Roy?


- What about that envelope?
- That belongs to another inmate.

This way, please.

Mendoza! The door!

Come in.

Roy, it's your lawyer.

Go ahead.


You have to help me.

Come on.

Let's go.

Lorenzo, long time no see!

I'm so glad you could make it.

How have you been, man?

- You must be Sigrid, right?
- Sigrid.

I pronounced it well.

- Sigrid.
- I'm Renato.

- You go now.
- Renato.


Very good.
Thank you for dragging my friend back.

- Hi.
- Don't exaggerate.

- Julieta!
- How are you?

She's an old friend.
I mean, a young old friend.

Hi. He was my teacher some years ago.

And after that, she never painted again.

I guess she didn't have a good experience.

I didn't know you were together.

There's a lot you don't know.
But we'll catch up.

Come on in, make yourselves at home.

It's so incredibly cool
to have you back, man.

Have you been painting?


I'm working on a collection
based on some of Sigrid's experiments.

They're not experiments, they're studies.

Sorry, I meant studies.
She's a biologist,

she came to Argentina
to finish her doctorate on echinoderms.

- Did I say that right?
- Perfect.

I'm helping her set up a lab
in our basement.

I'm almost a pro at science by now.

That's cool. Thanks.

I guess you'll have an expo of that.

I'd like to,

I hope the gallery owners
haven't forgotten this old artist.

- How did you two meet?
- Wine?

No, thanks.

At my workshop, she studied with me.

The old wolf may lose his teeth, but never
his nature. Can I ask you something?

Are you pregnant or you just don't drink?

The latter, and the former, hopefully.

Yeah, we're trying for a baby.

Let's make a toast. To your comeback

and to Lorenzo Jr. Cheers.


You got married so soon.

Yes, I wanted to do the right thing
this time.

The wolf finally fell into the trap.

It's been such a long time.

So Renato has it.

Yes, for quite a while now.

Goya fucked up my life.

Actually, he fucked up
many people's lives. Remember?

Sure. How could I forget?

I'd watch you paint so passionately,
so effortlessly.

I'd spend hours and nothing
would come out. That's why I gave it up.

- Right, now it's my fault.
- No!

I have no regrets.

I never understood
why I fell in love with you, though.

- I don't know how you put up with me.
- Who says I did?

What do you do?

I went back to Law School.

Now I work
for a very important tax law firm.


I remember well
what your opinion was about lawyers.

And I stand by it,
but I'll make an exception with you.

- It's this one?
- No.

It has some golden thingies.

- Have you been seeing your daughters?
- No.

They live with my ex.

I never liked her.

It was my mistake
for giving her the go-ahead.

- I thought I'd be able to see them.
- But?

Canada is a bit far.

This one?


Renato got a bit persistent
on the pregnancy thing.

She looked uneasy,
I hope he didn't scare her off.

She had a bad experience.

She went through a hard time.

I totally understand.

We're also trying for a baby.


- Yeah.
- With Renato?

- Yeah.
- That's amazing.

It's not easy,
we're doing fertility treatment.

It's a bit of a nightmare, to be honest.

How about this one?

- Lorenzo?
- Yes, honey.

I got your bag.

Sure you don't wanna stay a bit longer?


- We can come back some other time.
- Sure.

Tell Renato I'll call him over the week

to get that exhibition organized. And...

...tell him I felt proud
to see one of my pieces on his wall.

I will.

Nice meeting you.
Thank you for looking after my friend.

I'll see you out.

- Get in there.
- All right.

- After you.
- Thanks.

From now on you won't say another word.

The last thing we need
is you repeating that story again.

Let me do the talking
at the hearing, okay?

Are you listening to me?

Yes, I'm listening.

We must convince the judge
that you're not a threat

and that she can release you on bail.

- A threat?
- Yeah.

You gave her good reasons, didn't you?

Promise me you'll help me
file a report after this.

You got reported, Lorenzo.
What's wrong with you?

I don't know if you went mental
or you're drinking again,

but I want you back with your son.

I want you back to painting.
Do you want that, too?

You don't believe a word I said, do you?

I think you believe it.

The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco Goya, 1799

- Sir.
- Thank you.


Listen, I already told your workmate
to bring me a glass of water.

I can get one myself
if it's too much trouble.

Sigrid, come here.

Stop offering food,

- they've had enough.
- It's early.

But nobody else is coming.

- Come on, you don't know that.
- Hi!

- Yes, I know.
- Sorry, am I late?

You're right on time.

There are five strangers
and they just came for the food.

- Anything to drink?
- No.

Renato's having dinner with some
collectors, he couldn't make it.

But he'll stop by this week.
He felt guilty, poor thing.

He shouldn't feel guilty.

He helped me get this.
I really appreciate it.

This is more than enough.

Have you had dinner?


Sun over Gudhjem.

That's what you don't dare eat.

Sun over Gudhjem. Sigrid made it.

Is this edible?

I took the risk.

You had to, she's your wife.

You're right.

Look, if you don't want to try that,
I can offer you

puff pastries.

We also have rakfisk,

chicken liver pâté.

She cooked all that on her own?

Yes, she worked really hard. More than me.

And she definitely outshone me,
I mean, that's a fact.

You're lucky.
I don't know how to boil an egg.

You had other virtues.

I still have them.

I have no doubt.

I saw Renato today
and he looked very happy.

You look good, too.

You have a fresher look.


the effect of love.

That's great.
No need to feel embarrassed about it.

I'm the first to acknowledge it.

D'arcy Thompson?

Have you heard of him?


I saw some of his illustrations
in a book from an ex-boyfriend.

He was a mathematician.

He came after you.

The whole series is based on his sketches.

He blew up my mind.

This guy used math models
to explain evolution.

It was like a growing geometry.

He used these logarithmic spirals
to explain evolution.

What is it?

Is your wife the blonde woman?

- Yes.
- She needs you.

- I'll be right back.
- Okay.

What is it?

I'm not feeling well.

It must be all that effort.
Has anything happened?

I need to go back home.

Okay, we'll go home soon.

It has to be now, honey.


Do you mind going alone?

I'm pregnant.




When did you find out?

A few weeks ago.

Why didn't you tell me?

I wanted to be sure.


It's great news.


- Aren't you happy?
- I am.

Once the 90-day restriction was over,

you went back home
to see your son, right?

Nobody sees my son. Nobody sees him.

- What my client is trying to say...
- Please let him finish.

Let's see
if we can make some sense of it.

Mr. Roy,

your son
leads a completely normal life.


He goes to day-care every day.

I have the reports by the social worker

and his pediatrician.

Sigrid, my son and I
have attached earlobes.

- The three of us have blue eyes.
- Lorenzo is a renowned artist.

I've known him for years,
he has no criminal record.

- It was an isolated event.
- I'm afraid not.

This is the second time
Mr. Roy has engaged in a violent act.

His isolation and the distance
from his months-old son

could have caused
the emotional instability.

Your client's story
has no rhyme or reason.

You should consider psychiatric treatment.

No, that would be too much.

Maybe an expert's report.

What the fuck are you talking about?
I don't need psychiatric help

or an expert's opinion, I'm fine.

I think that would be most convenient.

- I'm not crazy!
- That's not for you to say, sir.

- I'm not crazy!
- Thank you.

- Thank you, ma'am.
- Good-bye.

- You want to know the sex?
- No.

Have you decided on the clinic?

We'll have it at home.

May I know why?

That's how I was born.

I'd like to continue the tradition.

As long as you know the risks involved,
it's your choice.

It's more dangerous
in a hospital than at home.

There are no hospital viruses in a house.

Not to mention this country's preference
for C-sections.

Nothing good can come out
from a child born that way.

We don't want to expose our baby
to a hospitalization.

All right.

- You still have time, anyway.
- Thank you.

- Your baby is all right.
- Yeah?

I'll just ask for some routines tests.

I have a clotting problem.

Possibly due to prothrombin gene mutation.

- There's risk of thrombophilia.
- Are you a doctor?

I'm a biologist,
I ran all my tests myself.

Nobody was willing to do them so early.

I need to start with heparin treatment
as soon as possible.

I can refer you to a hematologist
specialized in these cases.

The appointment will be in two weeks

and the test results
will take another week.

It'll be too late,

I already had a miscarriage.
I won't let that happen again.

I can't prescribe you anything
without a diagnosis,

especially, corticoids or heparin.

I understand.

Thank you, you've been very kind.

I'll wait outside.

Do you want to know the sex?

It's a boy,

you're the third obstetrician we've seen.
Excuse me.

They only worry about the delivery,

but there are higher risks
during pregnancy.

Relax, my two daughters were born
with an obstetrician's help in a hospital,

- by C-section, and nothing bad happened.
- Are they here...

...with their father?

- Please.
- Then something bad must have happened.

Sorry, I didn't mean it.

Okay, here's what we'll do.

We'll call a midwife in.

Leave that to me. I'll find the right one.

- Okay.
- Okay?

When Lorenzo arrived,
he was out of control.

He had a hard time settling down, keeping
to the timetable, adapting to the place.

- Did you medicate him?
- Yes,

we gave him haloperidol,
which is an antipsychotic,

and sedatives that were gradually
reduced as he got stable.

What's the diagnosis?

It wasn't easy to establish one.

Lorenzo suffers from Capgras delusion.

What's that?

A disconnection between our visual
identification system

and our emotional memory.

He's convinced that a close relative

has been exchanged
for an identical impostor.

A sort of dissociation
between his feelings and his memories.

Miguel, door.

Personally, I believe
that the Capgras syndrome

in this case is temporary,

a prosopagnosia

caused by the trauma he suffered
after his recent divorce.

But he's all right.

He's doing well.


Some people came for you.


- Hey.
- Hey.


- How are you doing?
- Fine.

Do you like it?

Yes, I like it.

Some time in the past we were mollusks
surrounded by water.

Like our little Henrik.

What's the matter?

There's something in the smell
that makes me sick.

It can't be the oil paints.

I don't know what it is,
but it's making me sick.

They haven't been made with lead
or anything toxic for a long time.

What's the point of arguing?
I'm telling you it's making me sick.

I'm not arguing.

I'm not asking you to stop painting,

but do you really have to do it
in the middle of the house?


- All right.
- Okay.

- What are you doing?
- Lorenzo.

- What is this?
- My treatment.

What treatment? Who prescribed it?

- Nobody wants this baby more than me.
- But you can't treat yourself.

- No.
- Yes.

- No, you can't, Sigrid.
- Yes, I can.

I didn't think
you'd be put away for so long.

I made them work.

Thanks. How much do I owe you?

Forget it.

When will I be able to see Henrik?

You're gonna have to be patient.

I know it's hard.

The judge allowed your release
until trial.

But you have to follow
your psychiatric treatment.

You can't get near the house
during that period.

Otherwise you'll go straight to jail.
You understand that?

I don't care about me.

It's him who's locked in there.

He's in danger.

- I understand.
- You don't,

because you're not a mother.

You can't understand me.

You'll understand when you have kids.

I can't help you,
you'll have to get another attorney.


Your hand is bleeding, Lorenzo.

She's Gudrum.

She helped deliver me
and then was my nanny.

She'll stay with us
until the baby is born.

She's staying?


Here in the attic.

We never discussed it.

Of course we did.

We agreed I'd get somebody
to help during labor.

- Did you forget?
- No.

In the basement, there's
a natural disinfectant on a shelf.

Put some of it and then a Band-Aid.



I got everything I could.

These are the car keys,
it's parked around the corner.

These are all your meds.

I bought you this
to keep a better track of them.

You have no idea what we did
to get you out of this mess.

Julieta's last treatment
was very painful, that was low.

I know it wasn't right, but...

I didn't...

I didn't mean to say it.

You don't mean what you say,
you don't mean what you do.

We're all worried about you,
even Sigrid.

When you saw Sigrid,

could you see Henrik?

- No, I think he was at kindergarten.
- What about the basement?

Did you go down there?

Stop it, Lorenzo.

Stop it.

We supported you this far,
you're on your own now.

What's going on?

She asks if you don't like the food.

I'm not hungry.

I'm sorry.

I'll go to bed now.

Let's go.

In a minute.

Let me finish up here first.


You changed everything!

I'm sorry, Lorenzo.

We took away the stimulants.

It's what Gudrum recommends, honey.

I didn't use shocking colors.

Everything is shocking for the baby.

I told you before.

The walls had to be soft-colored.

Gudrum thought
I should sleep with the baby at first.

You'll get a nice sleep
while I breastfeed.

Everybody wins if you're well rested.

Everything will work out fine.

I promise.




Open up!

Sigrid, tell Gudrum to open up.

What the...?

Why are you doing this to me?

Why did you lock me out?

Hi, pretty!

There, sweetie.

It's okay, honey.

Get a piece of chalk.

Are you looking for someone?

Yes, I'm Henrik's uncle.

How can I help you?

I was in the area
and I wanted to see him.

Without permission, I can't let you in.

I can call his mother.
Is she your sister?

No, there's no need for that.
I just wanted to take a look.

Can you get him here? I won't be long.

He's right there.

You need to go.

Lorenzo, father of the year!

- How are you, man?
- Congratulations!

He played hard to get, huh?

This reminds me of Chinese dynasties.
The baby is guarded by...

- Excuse me.
- He's literally

- wrapped in cotton wool.
- Take off your shoes, please.

Like in The Last Emperor,
Bertolucci's film.

We brought you a little something.

- I hope you like it.
- You shouldn't have.

Is the size right?

- Yes.
- Yeah?

- Yes.
- Then it's the colors.

No, it's just that Sigrid
is buying 100% cotton. No colors and...

You can leave your coats here.

And no patterns.
But I'll exchange it, don't worry.

- Okay.
- You're glowing.

Yes, I'm...

I'm very happy.

Even if this is my third child,
it's the exact same feeling.

Come in.

- You're redecorating?
- No.

- No?
- No.

You have the privilege
of being the first ones to see Henrik.


Let's go. We came, we had coffee,
we did as expected.

Don't get anxious,
let's wait a bit longer.

Let's go.


We can come back some other time,
we don't want to bother.

No, you're seeing him today.

Honestly, we can come back later.

Give our regards to Sigrid.

I can't. She knows you're here.

She hasn't come out for six months.

Neither she nor the baby.

She says Henrik has photophobia.
That's why the lights are dimmed.

Maybe it's that period...
after pregnancy. What's it called?

- Postpartum period.
- Yeah.

It's been 30, 40, 60 days.
The postpartum period is long over.

What does the pediatrician say?

Pediatrician? There's no pediatrician.

What do you mean?

She's her own pediatrician.

She and that old woman.

They examine him, they diagnose him,

they lock him in.

He's never been out.

What does she say
if you want to take him out?

That it's impossible.

She just gives him to me to poop,

but he stays in the room
with the dimmed lights,

four times a day.

That's all the contact I have with him
on a good day.

We'll come back when you're all calmer.

- Yes.
- No.

Stay here, I'll be right back.

- I won't be long.
- Lorenzo, wait.

- Hi, Sigrid.
- Hi.


- Thank you.
- Hi, Henrik.

- Does he sleep a lot?
- He does.

He's a saint.

We brought him a present,
I hope you like it.


It's beautiful, thank you.

It's not cotton.

Nothing nowadays is 100% cotton, anyway.

We're going to leave now
so the baby can rest.

Thank you, thank you for understanding.



He's very cute.

Really. Yeah. Congratulations.

Thank you.

He doesn't like that food.

Your shoes!

He hasn't eaten in three days.
It's the first time he kicks up a fuss.

He must have a fever.

Let me handle this.
He doesn't like you watching him eat.

He doesn't like it? Stop it.

He doesn't like this food.

- Don't shout at him.
- I'm not shouting at him.


He's burning.

Shut up.

Mind your own business.

Why did you take him out?

- The car keys.
- Henrik can't go out.

He needs to go to the hospital.

- Give me the car keys.
- No!



Hey, taxi!

There, there.


Let's check this side.

It's just a fever spike.

Scary but very common in babies his age.
We just have to wait until it comes down.

Any medical insurance?

No. He doesn't have any.

Is he allergic to any medicine?

He doesn't take medicines.

So I don't really know.

- Does his mom breastfeed him?
- Yes, of course.

Where is she?

At home.

What happened to your neck?


Those scratches might get infected.
I'll call somebody to check you up.

There's no need.

I'm fine, thank you.

We're at the door with the mother.

Here he is,

the doctor says
his fever is normal.

- Henrik is all right.
- Go in, ma'am.

Hold on, hey.

- Hold it there, pal.
- What is it?

We got a call for domestic violence.
You can't go into the house.

- I didn't do anything. Sigrid!
- The report has been filed.

I recommend you find another place.

But this is my house. Sigrid!

- Is it all right, sir?
- You can't go in.

- Everything all right?
- No, this is my house.

How can anything be all right?
Why can't I go in?

- Calm down now, okay?
- Don't make things worse.

Go rest somewhere else.
Or would you rather come with us?

Go, please.

Are you okay?

What happened?

Can I come in?


We stuck to the schedule, right?

Did you take your temperature?

Are you seriously asking?

All right.

- So what does she say?
- That he hit her.

- He hit her?
- Yes.

- Good morning.
- Hey.

Good morning.

I just came from court.

You have a 90-day restraining order.

And she filed for divorce.

I can't believe it.

Isn't there any legal way to protect a kid

from his mental mother?

Lorenzo, you hit her.


I didn't hit her, she attacked me.

- Look what she did to me.
- Have you been drinking again?

Yesterday you were wasted.

I drank afterwards. Not before. I swear.

I hadn't drunk for two years.

For two years I'd been clean.

Try to put yourself in the judge's place.

She's Norwegian, has a doctorate,
and can fend for herself.

You're bohemian
with a drinking background,

and never managed
to keep in touch with your daughters.

Granted, I lost my two daughters.

But I can't lose Henrik.
Especially over something I didn't do.

We're with you, Lorenzo.
Can we demand some visitation time?


we can try to speed up
the divorce proceedings.

But there's nothing to do
for those 90 days,

you have to be patient.

Do you have a place to stay?

- No.
- Stay here.

The guestroom is yours.
At least until things cool off.

- I don't want to be a bother.
- You're not a bother, Lorenzo.

Come sit down, I'll get you some coffee.


Good morning.

You're up bright and early.

I didn't get much sleep.

- You didn't?
- Today's the day.

Right, of course.

Here, what do you think?

Cool. The head tilts.

- And this.
- He's going to love it.

I just made the down payment,
I'll move out next week.


Did you notice?

- What?
- Everything is falling into place.

I hope it is.



Look at this.

I made it for you.

Check this.


Where's my son?


Where's my son?





Open up.


Open up!

Give me back my son!


Open up!

Open up!

Open up, Sigrid!

Open up! Open up!

What's going on? Drop that now!

- Please, help me.
- Calm down.

Help me out, please!

Help me!

- My son is in there!
- Calm down!

Santos, take him away!

Come on, move!

Calm down!


Come in.

Be still.


The door, Mendoza.


I brought you company.

- Hi. ID, please?
- Yes.


Sir, you have to wait outside.

- You can't go in unannounced.
- It's okay, I know her.

You can't go in just like that, you...

I'm sorry, I couldn't stop him.

It's all right. You can go now.


What happened, Lorenzo?

I brought you this.

- I can't accept it.
- It's not a present,

it's my way
of paying you for everything you did.

I can't take it anyway.

There it is.

No offence, but the previous one
looked like furniture.

Now, check this out. Look at the energy,
the power, the colors.

You should change your glasses.

Maybe that's why
your secretary wouldn't let me in.

Or maybe because I mentioned
I take three antipsychotics a day.

This doesn't look
like an attorney's office.

I want to apologize
for what I said in the car.

You didn't do anything wrong.

You didn't deserve that.

I was wrong.

I'm sorry.



Are you still getting treatment?


It's no use trying for now.

We're considering adoption, though.

How about you?

- Could you find a new lawyer?
- No.

I didn't feel like telling the same
story and being seen as a mad man again.

I'd rather have an attorney
that doesn't judge me.

- Lorenzo...
- Wait.

I told you I'm not interested.


I got this yesterday.

Read it.

Please. Take a look at it.

She's offering to restore the bond.

She says you're not a threat to her son.

I guess you had
the wrong opinion about your ex.

So it seems.

That's why I came to see you.

I need somebody to act as a mediator.

That's not my specialty.

One last time.

I beg you.

Stand by me one last time.


How are you?

Check this. Do I have the fatherly look?
Do you like them?

- I love them. Come, this way.
- Do I look good?

Under section 438,

Mrs. Jensen

suggests a broad visitation schedule
and shared parental care.

Henrik will spend half the time
with each of his parents.

I know Lorenzo has been
through tough times,

but he's a good man.

I'd like Henrik to have a normal family
like any other child.

I'm glad Henrik is your top priority.

As for Henrik's right to have a family,

it's very important
that we have your consent

to section 645, subsection C.

Authorization to leave the country?

My client wants her son
to meet his family in Scandinavia.

No, I won't consent to that.

Mr. Roy,

- we can go ahead without you.
- I don't understand.

You still have a suspended sentence,

you can't recognize your son and...

The psychiatric report is wrong.

I was diagnosed with Capgras syndrome,

that means I can't recognize any face.

But I can recognize every face
in this room.

Yours, my lawyer's, my ex's.

Why is my son's the exception?

- Don't you think that's weird?
- Calm down.

Mr. Roy, we don't want
to discriminate against you.

Henrik has a right to see all his family.

On the mother's side
and on the father's side.

That's definitely out of the question.

What you're proposing is extortion.

You're using Henrik as a hostage.
The answer is no.

All right, if we can't reach an agreement,
we withdraw our offer.

We'll request permission to go abroad.

- All right.
- I want to see my son.

I'll sign any paper,
I just want to see him.

And I want to see him tomorrow.
Tomorrow without fail.


Do you agree?


I'll go draw up the agreement
for you to sign it.

- Are you sure about this?
- Yes.


Hi, Henrik.

There you go.

- Can you manage?
- Yes.

Hi, Henrik.

- All right. Let me fasten this.
- You've grown so much.

Hi, hi.

We're going for a ride with Daddy. Right?


Aren't you happy?

Yes, I'd like Renato to see him.
Can we go to your house instead?

It'll be much better
than in my little apartment.

Sure, let's go.

Here, here. Tell him, Renato.

He's so beautiful.

The pampas blood is showing.

You know how much your dad
had to fight to be with you?

You have no idea.

You fought more than me.

I have no words to thank you.

Please, that's what friends are for.

You're his official godparents.

- Really?
- Here. Give him the bottle.

- Me?
- It'll be an honor.

Okay, let's see.

- Be careful.
- First drink with your godfather.

- First drink with your godfather.
- Careful.

- Come with your godfather.
- Let's see...

- You'll grow very strong.
- Yes?

Hi, hi.

Lorenzo wasn't with you?

- I thought he was here.
- No.


Lorenzo, are you okay?


He's gone.

He's gone?

He's crazy. You took responsibility
before the judge.

- What do we do?
- I don't know.


No answer.

He's going to lose him forever.

Let's go with Mom.

I'll go. Here.

- Come with your godfather.
- There.


That's Lorenzo's car!

That's Lorenzo's car over there!

Please, come with me.

Excuse me.

- Don't let anybody else in.
- Yes, sir.

I'm terribly sorry, ma'am,
I know you were close.

- Where's Sigrid?
- There's no sign of her or the old lady.

What's going to happen to Henrik?

He'll go to a foster house
until we can contact some relative.

We're his godparents,
we could take care of him.

All right, I'll let the judge know.

Excuse me.

- Let's go home.
- Yes.


Where do you want me to go?

- This way?
- Look how Mom keeps her balance.

- You want to fly?
- Yes.

- You want to fly real high?
- Yes.

Yes? Okay.

Henrik, the flying man.

- No. Careful! Careful with the ground!
- The ground?

- Do you want ice-cream?
- Yes.

I want to sit there.

- Let's have some ice cream.
- Chocolate ice cream?

Yes, chocolate.

- This big?
- Where's my friend?

I'll buy a few things.

- How big?
- Let's order now.

Rock, paper, scissors.

Rock, paper, scissors.

You win.

Subtitle translation by: Lisa Pagotto