Sobibór, 14 octobre 1943, 16 heures (2001) - full transcript

SS officers giving the Nazi salute
by the coffins of comrades

killed during the Sobibor uprising.
(Sobibor Museum)

Had Mr. Lerner killed before?

No. I’d never killed anyone.

SOBIBOR, OCTOBER 14, 1943, 4:00 P.M.

For my friend Gilberte Steg,

in memory of her sister
Hedy Nissim,

gassed at Sobibor
in March 1943.

Using footage of an interview with
Yehuda Lerner, shot in 1979 during Shoah,

I created
Sobibor, October 14, 1943, 4:00 p.m.

Sobibor occupies a crucial position
in Shoah, and the death camp uprising



is referenced early in the film
by Jan Piwonski, from Poland,

who was assistant switchman
at the train station at the time.

Piwonski witnessed
the camp’s construction

and the arrival of the first convoy
for the gas chambers.

In Shoah, unlike for Treblinka,
Chełmno, or Auschwitz-Birkenau,

no Jewish protagonists
spoke about Sobibor,

even though I had lots of footage
of Ada Lichtman and her husband,

who’d both escaped during the uprising,

and, above all, with Yehuda Lerner,

its emblematic hero,

an astonishing figure,

and, as we shall see,
a man of tireless and indomitable courage.

The Sobibor uprising could not
be a mere moment in Shoah.

It deserved its own film,
individual treatment.



It is a paradigmatic example
of what I’ve elsewhere referred to

as the reappropriation of power
and violence by the Jews.

The Shoah was not
only a massacre of innocents,

it was a massacre of defenseless people,

tricked at every stage
of the process of destruction,

up to the very doors
of the gas chambers.

A just correction
is required for the two-part myth:

one claiming the Jews allowed themselves
to be led to the gas chambers

without suspicion,
and that their death was "gentle,"

and one claiming they offered
no resistance to their executioners.

Without mentioning great uprisings
like that of the Warsaw ghetto,

individual and collective acts of bravery

were frequent
in the camps and ghettos:

insults, curses, suicide,
desperate attacks.

However, it is true that an ancient
tradition of exile and persecution

hadn’t prepared the Jews, as a whole,
for the efficient use of violence

which requires
two inseparable preconditions:

psychological disposition

and familiarity with weapons.

It was a Soviet Jewish officer,
Alexander Pechersky,

a career soldier
well-accustomed to weaponry,

who conceived, planned and organized
the uprising in barely six weeks.

Deported to Sobibor
in early September 1943

with other Jews,
also Red Army soldiers,

Pechersky was lucky enough not to be
immediately sent to the gas chamber

with his comrades.

From the group of 1,200,
the Germans selected around 60 men,

urgently needed
for hard labor and maintenance work.

Their turn to die would come later,

like the cobblers, tailors, goldsmiths,

laundry women and also some children
who, for months or weeks,

had been living in the part of the camp
called Camp #1.

(Adjacent to Camp #2, the actual
death camp with the gas chambers.)

They were slave labor for the Nazis

and were periodically eliminated.

Alexander Pechersky
is no longer with us.

Other participants in the revolt
still live, scattered around the globe.

Here, Yehuda Lerner speaks
for himself and the others,

the living and the dead.

To make this film, I wanted to go
where Yehuda Lerner had been,

so I returned to Poland, to Belarus,
to Sobibor itself,

where I hadn’t set foot
for over 20 years.

The ravages of time are visible,

the station even more dilapidated.

There’s only one train per day
between Chełm and Włodawa.

The ramp that over 250,000 Jews descended,
then a grassy slope,

has now been roughly cemented
in order to load timber.

However, five years ago, the Polish
government decided to build

a small and touching
red-roofed museum in Sobibor.

Similarly, at Włodawa,
the synagogue,

its courtyard used to park trucks in 1978,

has also been turned into a museum,

surrounded by a lush park.

But museums and monuments

instill forgetfulness
as well as remembrance.

Now we’ll listen to Yehuda Lerner’s
living words.

WARSAW 2001

It all began on July 22, 1942 when
we were forced out of the Warsaw ghetto.

We were assembled on Umschlagplatz

and told we were being sent somewhere.

We didn’t know where.

Umschlagplatz is where
the Jews were assembled

and where the Jews to be deported
were herded into freight cars.

I’m with my parents and family,
but we’re quickly separated.

I’m sent one way, my family another.
From then on, I’m alone.

Later I found out my mother, father,
brother, and sister

were sent to Treblinka.

"Along this path of suffering and death

over 300,000 Jews
were driven in 1942- 1943

from the Warsaw ghetto

to the gas chambers
of the Nazi extermination camps."

From Umschlagplatz,
I was taken outside the ghetto.

We spent a few days there. Each day
we were given a slice of bread and water.

It seems they needed
a certain number of young men.

That’s probably why
we waited there a few days.

There were lots of us,
a few thousand able-bodied young men.

I’d just turned 16.

After a few days,
we were herded into train cars

to go to a work camp,
or so they said.

For almost a week,
we traveled in those train cars.

Each day, they passed some water
through the door.

Before boarding,
we’d each received a loaf of bread.

We arrived in Belarus.

They unloaded us
so we could work.

The place where we’d arrived
was near an airport.

I can’t remember the name,
but it was an airfield.

We built buildings there.

Conditions were harsh:
very little food,

and the Germans there
shot at the Jews for no reason.

The pilots, especially.
At night, they’d get drunk

and amuse themselves by shooting Jews,
usually in the head.

Their game was to arrive from behind,
press the barrel to your temple

and try to blow your eyes out.

Death could come at any moment.
Dozens died

from hidden snipers’ bullets,

not to mention
all those who starved to death.

In the camp, every day
we buried dozens of people.

The conditions were truly terrible.

When I realized how bad things were,

I decided I had to get out of there.

I said to a friend, "Let’s run away.

Whatever happens,
it’s better than starving here."

We hid until evening.

After nightfall, we slipped through
the barbed wire, tearing our clothes,

and set off across the fields.

We walked for two entire days
without meeting a soul.

We ate whatever
we could find in the fields.

We had civilian clothes,

but with an ID number
on a red-and-white patch.

On the third day, we met some Russian
peasants and asked them for food.

We spoke to them in Polish.
Polish and Russian are similar.

The word for "bread"
is the same in Polish and Russian.

That third day the Russians fed us,
then we continued on our way.

After a few days,
the Germans recaptured us.

They put us in a truck
and took us to another camp.

The Jews in this camp asked,

"Why didn’t the Germans
shoot you on the spot?"

It was simple – usually you were
hung or shot immediately.

I suppose I was lucky.
We were lucky.

In each new camp, I’d see hundreds
and thousands dying of hunger,

and each time, I’d think, "I’d rather
be shot or hung than starve like that."

I’d see people swell up
or get very thin

and think,
"No, that’s too awful a way to die."

Each time I escaped,
they caught me and put me in another camp.

The conditions were always
just as terrible.

I was in many camps.
Eight camps in all.

He escaped from eight camps ?

He was in eight camps in Russia
and escaped from them all?

Yes.

In what time span?

Six months.

He escaped from eight camps
in six months ?

Yes.

Why such determination to escape ?
Or was it simply easy?

A man who wants to live –

If a man wants to live,
nothing is difficult for him.

When I saw the unlivable conditions,

I thought, "I have nothing to lose.

I’d rather attempt anything
than live this nonlife."

Was it that easy
to escape from these camps ?

From the camps, it was very hard.
I always escaped from work sites.

Were the camps in the same area ?

They were about 20 to 25 miles apart.

So he was always recaptured?

What did he tell
the Germans who caught him ?

The truth.

Simply the truth.

I said I’d just escaped.

There was no other solution.

I didn’t want to lie.

I simply told the truth,
that I’d escaped.

There was no alternative.
Only death awaited a Jew.

But I’d rather take a bullet
than go back there.

Anyway, my clothes were in rags.
I couldn’t lie.

It was obvious. I had an ID number,
and I was just skin and bones.

You couldn’t lie.

He was incredibly lucky not to be shot.

That’s true.
If you’ve got a lucky star, you’ll live.

I must have been lucky.

If I’d been caught by the Germans
in charge of fugitives,

or one of the camps,

they’d have simply hung me
like all the rest.

All captured fugitives
were brought back and hung.

But my luck always held.

I was always caught
by Germans passing by chance,

and I’d wind up in another camp.

I always escaped with the same friend.

When the Germans caught us
after our latest attempt,

after a few hours’ drive,
we ended up in the city of Minsk.

I realized we were in a city.

There was a ghetto in Minsk.

The Germans locked us in a room.

After a few hours,
we were led before two men

from the Minsk Judenrat

Judenrat: Jewish Council

and a Jewish policeman from the ghetto.
Judenrat: Jewish Council

The Germans handed us over to them

with orders to take us to the ghetto.

The Jews in the ghetto where shocked
when they saw us

because we looked like walking corpses.

The Judenrat told us,
"You’ll never survive here

because in the ghetto, you’ll starve
if you’re unable to work.

But near here
is a camp for prisoners of war,

Jews from the Red Army.

If you can get into that camp,
LEN I N

you might have a chance
to gradually look human again
LENIN

you might have a chance
to gradually look human again

and recover your strength to work."

We were in a terrible state.

Completely covered in lice.

We were welcomed. . .

by a prisoner.

So, we were in a terrible state,
completely covered in lice.

We were taken
to the Russian Jews’ POW camp.

A prisoner received us,
asked who we were, where we were from.

We told him, and he said,
"I’ll take you under my protection."

We were undressed
and given a bath.

We spent a few days in that camp,
and then I came down with typhus.

ill for some weeks,
I stayed in an improvised camp infirmary.

The food we received was fairly edible.

It allowed me to recover.

The camp prisoners left each morning
under German escort

to work in the city of Minsk.

When I recovered from typhus,
I felt a bit stronger

and asked to go to work too.

There were a lot of us
in the camp – 1,200.

So when the Germans captured
Red Army soldiers,

they separated Jewish soldiers
from the others ?

It seems to me. . .

that was the case,

since it was only Jews.

I was told –

It seems that way, since there were
only Jews in this camp.

Later I was told
that when the Germans took prisoners

they asked who was Jewish
and took them to this camp.

To him, was there a difference
between these Jewish POWs

and the Jews in the work camps
or the Minsk ghetto ?

What did they look like ?
Was there a difference ?

There was a huge difference.
First, the POWs were in better shape.

They were fed – not good food,
but it kept them alive.

And the camp was clean and orderly.

They didn’t wear their rank,
but they were obviously soldiers.

They were men.

Another difference between this camp
and the others

was the prisoners’ contact
with the local population.

They had opportunities to talk to
and meet locals

so that after a day’s work,
they could bring back extra food.

They seemed healthy,
unlike the unfortunates in other camps.

IAMA: THE HOLE

Here, the Jews of the Minsk ghetto
were killed en masse.

Both in Russian and Yiddish,
with variations:

"An eternally shining memory

of the 5,000 Jews

murdered by
humanity’s bloodiest enemies,

the Fascist German executioners,

on March 2, 1941."

We’d already been in Minsk
for some months. . .

when one night. . .

in early September, 1943,

we were woken when the lights
were suddenly switched on,

and our huts were –

and our huts were
surrounded by Germans shouting,

"Come out!
Get dressed and come out!"

German trucks waited at the gates.

We didn’t know
where we were being taken.

We arrived at the station.
They put us in train cars.

As we were herded into the car,
we realized –

At dawn, we realized that Minsk
ghetto Jews were being brought too.

We knew they were ghetto Jews
by the star they wore.

But we prisoners of war
were kept together, in several train cars.

We traveled for five or six days
without knowing where

and arrived in Lublin, Poland.

We later learned that Lublin
had a death camp, Majdanek.

MAJDANEK

LUBLIN IN BACKGROUND

We spent about half a day there,
near the camp.

Apparently, there was no room for us,
so we set off again.

After another two or three hours,
we arrived in Chełm.

A Pole who was working. . .

at the station. . .

for the Germans

came over to us.

In Polish, he told one of the Jews
near the hatch,

"Run away!
They’re taking you to Sobibor."

He was there to –

Since my comrades didn’t understand Polish,
they called me over,

but the Pole was already walking away.

His job was to write numbers
on the wagons.

He had just enough time
to tell me, "Run away.

They’re taking you to Sobibor
to burn you."

That’s all I managed to understand.

I told my comrades the Pole had said
Jews were brought there to be burned,

but no one believed it.

We didn’t believe him.

Our train continued onward,
and we could have escaped then.

How? To relieve ourselves,

we’d cut a hole
in the flooring with a knife.

We could’ve escaped through it,
but no one believed him.

We couldn’t comprehend
being brought there to be burnt.

We’d never heard of such a thing.

Night had already fallen
when we reached a station,

but it was too dark
to read the name on a sign.

At that point,
the Germans surrounded the train

shouting that anyone who looked out
would be immediately shot,

and that we’d spend the night there
and be let out the next day.

Around 10: 00 p.m. ,
we heard a bugle call.

We thought it was probably
quite a large camp

if they had a lights-out signal.

We spent the rest of the night
unable to sleep

because everyone wondered where we were
and what would happen to us.

In the morning, we could finally read
the name of the place: Sobibor.

We realized the Pole
had told the truth,

but it was too late –
we could no longer escape.

The train pulled into the camp,
and the cars were separated.

When our car stopped, they yelled at us
to get out – "Raus! Raus!"

There were Germans and Ukrainians
in black uniforms.

All the POWs were in a group
separate from the rest.

A German approached us and said,
"I need 60 strong men."

I thought,
"If it involves hard work,

we’ll probably be fed,
so count me in."

He’d asked for 60 men,
but only 50 stepped forward,

so he yelled, "If you refuse to work,
you’ll go right back to Moses!"

We didn’t understand what he meant.

The German picked more men,

and when he had 60,
he led us off to one side.

Just then,
as the rest of the convoy was taken away,

the air started filling
with shouts and screams

and the shrill cries of geese.
Yes, geese.

It lasted about an hour,
and then suddenly, silence.

We found out later that the Germans
had a flock of several hundred geese.

And when Jews were taken away
and started screaming,

the Germans probably
panicked the geese so they would honk,

and the cries of the geese
would drown out the human screams.

That’s definitely right. Some Poles
told me that in Sobibor and Treblinka

the Jews screamed like geese
when they were gassed.

It was even more true –

It was even more true
because there were real geese.

Flocks raised specifically
to drown out the human screams.

Since they brought in
several thousand people at once

the Germans wanted to avoid –

Each convoy had thousands of people,

so the Germans wanted to make sure
the people at the end of the convoy

wouldn’t hear the screams
of those at its head.

So he heard the geese
and then silence, is that it?

When silence fell, a kapo –

a Jew – came over. . .

and told us. . .

to form a line.

When silence fell,
a kapo – a Jew – came over

and told us to form a line.

He took us to a place
inside the camp

where there were some huts.

The 60 of us ended up in one.

It was afternoon.
People were walking around the camp.

Once inside the barracks,

we were given new clothes.

Real clothes.

Once inside the barracks,
we were given new clothes –

and blankets,
such as we hadn’t seen in years.

We later learned the clothes and blankets
had been taken

from people in our convoy

and previous convoys.

Once we were clean and dressed,
they took us to the kitchen.

They fed us excellent food,
as much as we wanted.

After we came out,
we started talking to the Jews.

PATH TO EXTERM I NATION

After we came out, we started talking
to the Jews strolling around.

We spoke in Yiddish and Polish.

They explained to us that here,
in Sobibor, the Jews were burned.

First, they were gassed,
and then they were burned.

That’s when we realized
that no one left Sobibor alive.

They told us
that no one could escape from here.

All night long, we talked. . .

about what to do.

The next morning –

We talked all night about our fate
and about what we could do.

The next morning
we were told to go out to work.

Our job was to fell trees

and build
underground munitions stores.

We decided that in this place
we had no time to waste.

Since all these men were POWs,

as soldiers,
they knew what to do.

They formed a committee
to get in touch with the Jews

who already knew a bit about Sobibor.

The head of the committee
was a Jewish Red Army officer

named Sasha Pechersky.

Through the Sobibor Jews,

he obtained information:

Two previous uprisings had failed.

The first time,
a group of 50 had been burned,

and the second time the Jews had tried
to dig a tunnel and failed.

We realized that,
if we wanted to succeed,

we had to keep our plans secret
with very few people informed,

and our only chance
was to kill the Germans.

In the camp there were. . .

cobblers –

All trades were represented
in the camp –

cobblers working for the Germans,
others for the Ukrainians,

tailors working for Germans
and Ukrainians,

even goldsmiths.

For example, a German
going away on leave

could have a gold ring
or other jewelry made.

All these Jewish craftsmen
worked for the Germans.

We selected a site

where we decided to build
a new hut.

The idea was to claim
there were many carpenters in the camp

and a new hut was needed
for this particular trade, carpentry.

We received permission
to build the new hut.

We also thought about which tools
could be used to kill the Germans,

and, as carpenters,
we would be allowed axes.

We were aware of the incredible
punctuality of the Germans.

Our plan was to summon,
every few minutes,

the officers
to different workshops –

to the tailors’
and the cobblers’.

That was the plan –
to get them inside the workshops.

For each workshop, two men
had been selected by the committee.

Their task was to contact the Jewish
craftsman in charge of each workshop.

For instance,
me and my comrade,

for we always went in pairs,

had to go to the tailors’ workshop.

The tailor had to summon
a German at 4: 00 p.m. ,

and we had to wait
for that German.

How could the tailor be sure
he’d come at 4: 00 p.m. ?

What reason did he give
to summon him?

We had to summon,
for example –

The tailor was to summon –

For instance,
in the tailors’ workshop,

our task was to kill
a German called Graetschus,

who was in charge of

the Ukrainians in the camp.

He was having a leather coat made,
with a fur lining,

so his coat fitting was for 4 : 00 p.m.

The uprising for the whole camp
was set for October 14,

at precisely 4 : 00 p.m.

All the Germans were to be summoned
to different workshops at that time.

Was there a precise reason for organizing
the uprising on that date ?

There were children who worked –
In the canteen ?

Some of the children also went
to the Germans’ homes

to clean their shoes.

These children
had overheard a rumor

that the camp would soon
be completely destroyed.

We decided, after hearing this information
that we needed to act quickly

because if we waited, we risked
extermination with the rest of the camp.

So very little time elapsed

between their arrival
at Sobibor in early September

and the uprising on October 14 ?

They acted very quickly?

Yes, since I’d arrived,

six weeks in total had passed.

In the tailors’ workshop,

my friend and I were ready
with our well-honed axes.

Our task was to kill
one German summoned at 4 : 00 p.m.

and a second German
summoned at 4: 05 p.m.

How many men were to take part?

- Jews, you mean?
- Yes, of course.

More than 20.

Scattered in all the places
where we could summon Germans.

How did you choose
those who took part?

The committee in charge
of the camp uprising

had selected
who would take part in the mission,

but I don’t know
what their criteria were.

Personally, I felt it was an honor
to be entrusted with killing a German.

I was fairly young,
still a kid, but already well-built.

I truly felt it was an honor
to be chosen to kill a German.

The plan was to kill all the Germans
in the camp ?

Yes, the plan was to kill
the 16 Germans in the camp.

There were actually 30 Germans,

but since they could go out on leave,

they split into two groups
and, in general,

at the time we’d chosen to revolt
there were 16 Germans in the camp.

But there were a few hundred Ukrainians
that guarded the entire camp.

The camp was also encircled
with an electrified fence,

and the fields around it
were mined.

At 4 : 00 p.m. ,
when the uprising began,

a comrade, an electrician,

was in charge of cutting
the power of the camp.

This Jewish electrician always worked
for the Germans as an electrician,

and his role that day
was to cut the power.

He also cut the phone lines.

Had Mr. Lerner ever killed before ?

No, I’d never harmed a fly.

Me ? It was the first time.

It was a simple fact.

If we didn’t act, we’d be killed
like all the Jews before us.

So it was this reality
that forced us to act like this.

For me, it was a great honor
to be chosen to kill the Germans.

Did the idea of killing scare him ?

Of course the idea of killing
scared me,

but sometimes reality forces a man

to act in ways he wouldn’t have chosen.

In this camp, we also knew
we had no choice.

We knew we’d be killed,

but we didn’t want
to be killed like sheep.

We wanted to die like men.

Better to be killed
than led to the gas chambers.

It was reality that forced us to act.

It’s 4 : 00 p.m.

on October 14, 1943,

or perhaps 3: 30 p.m.

He’s in the tailors’ workshop, waiting.

We took our positions
in the tailors’ workshop

one hour before the time
set for the uprising.

We’d arranged it with the tailor
in charge of the workshop.

We would be there
as if we were tailors too,

but seize a moment,
a mere instant,

to get behind the German

in order to deal the deathblow.

You say "we."
There were two of you?

Yes, a comrade and myself,
both waiting for the Germans.

We had agreed
that when the tailor

got the German to try on the coat,

on the coat front, he’d mark

the position for the buttons,

and at one point, he’d kneel,

and that was our signal
to rush at the German to kill him.

Did they decide
who would strike first?

Since my comrade was a soldier,

we’d planned for him
to be sitting closest

and the tailor would make sure,
as he moved,

to let my comrade step forward
and strike the first blow.

So it was the Soviet Jewish POW
who was to strike first?

What were their weapons ?

Axes.

Our axes that we’d already sharpened
in the carpentry workshop.

We’d claimed to be carpenters
so we worked in the carpentry shop.

What were the axes like ?

What does he mean ?
They were normal axes, not especially big.

Actually, they were rather small.

But we’d sharpened them so much
that they were like razor blades.

At 4 : 00 p.m. , when the German
was supposed to enter our workshop,

or to be precise, at 3: 55 p.m. ,
through the door,

we saw the horse of another German
being led away from another shop,

so we knew the German in that shop
had already been killed.

My comrade and I were already sitting
in the tailors’ workshop, working.

I had a coat over my lap,

and I was pretending
to stitch buttons to it.

The axes were hidden under the coat,
between our knees.

At 4 : 00 p.m. , the German
we were expecting,

Graetschus, entered for his fitting.

At 4 : 00 p.m. sharp ?

Just like clockwork.

In fact, our whole plan
was based on that.

We knew the Germans
were very punctual.

We only succeeded
because Germans are so punctual.

If they hadn’t been on time that day,
we would’ve failed.

Graetschus entered the workshop,

removed the belt holding his gun

and put the gun on the table.

He moved forward in such a way
that he was right next to me.

We’d planned for my friend
to be closest, for he was a soldier,

and I’d never killed anyone.

Yet I ended up with the German
right next to me.

What was Graetschus like ?

Graetschus was –

I can’t really say.
He was about 6’2".

He was very tall
with broad shoulders.

A huge man, tall!
Of great size and stature.

I’d seen him before,
but being right next to him,

to tell the truth,
I was petrified.

Being so near such a monster,
you’re filled with terror.

Did Graetschus suspect anything?

No.

He’d never even dream –

No, Graetschus would never even dream
of such a thing.

The Germans in the camp
felt so secure,

so confident after killing
hundreds of thousands of Jews

that they couldn’t imagine
such a thing.

In this camp –

In this camp, for the Germans,
things ran like clockwork,

smoothly regulated.

They would yell, run

and sow terror inside the camp,

and we were the poor wretches.

They made us wretches.

The Germans couldn’t even imagine
we might change.

Hundreds of thousands of people
had passed through this camp.

So Graetschus is in front of him
instead of his comrade.

Yes, he was three or four feet away.

It had been agreed –

He was about
three or four feet from me,

and we’d arranged for when the tailor
tried the coat on him,

marked the spots for the buttons
and bent down,

my friend would step forward,

but since I was now the closest,

I stood up.

The coat covered my hands and the ax.

I stood up,

I dropped the coat,

gripped the ax

and took a tiny step towards him.

It all took 1/1000th of a second.

It was even. . .

so rapid that I can’t even say –

It was over in a quarter of
a millionth of a second.

I gripped the ax,

and he gave a loud cry, and he fell.

I raised the ax
and slammed it down on his head.

In one blow, the whole ax
went into his head.

He struck him in the skull?

The ax went right
into the middle of his skull.

I split his skull in two.

I don’t even know how.
It was like I’d been doing it all my life.

Like a specialist,
I hit exactly the right spot. I succeeded.

It split his skull?

Completely! And he fell.

My comrade came over.

It lasted a fraction of a second.

I hit him,
he slumped down and fell.

My comrade came over.
He struck him again.

Then the people in the workshop
helped us move the body

because we knew a second German
would arrive immediately after.

How many were they?

There were other tailors
and other cobblers.

Ada’s husband worked in that workshop.

Ada’s husband –
- Yes, I know.

Everyone in the workshop
hurried to hide Graetschus’s corpse.

In a tailor’s workshop, there’s a table
where they iron the finished clothes.

The table here had a pile of coats
under it, ready for the Germans.

We dragged the body to the table
and hid it under the pile of coats.

Was there any blood?

A lot of blood.

The people working there
immediately cleaned up the blood

and spread blankets over the floor.

It only took us a few seconds to wash,
remove our coats

and sit down
as if nothing had happened.

When was the second German due?

At 4: 05 p.m.

At 4: 05 p.m. !

All that only took half a minute.

Incredible.

Yes, it seems impossible,

but everything depended on German
punctuality and our own rapidity.

The Germans were punctual
and our plan worked like clockwork.

Who was to kill the second German?

Both of us, at the same spot.

We were waiting for the second German.

At precisely 4 : 05 p.m. ,

the second German comes in.

At precisely 4: 05 p.m. ,
the second German comes in.

He looks around and declares
the place is very dirty,

that we should whitewash the walls

and clean the place up.

He moves forward and looks around.

We’d hidden Graetschus
under the pile of coats,

but his arm was sticking out.

We hadn’t noticed,
but his hand was sticking out.

As he moved forward,

he stepped on Graetschus’s hand.

It might have been covered,

but when you step on a hand,
you know it’s not a coat.

So the German started shouting,
"Was ist das? Was ist das?"

"What is it?"

Immediately, my comrade leapt forward
and struck him.

The German collapsed from the blow,

and I quickly gave him a second blow.

I think I’ll always remember –

The ax struck his teeth
and made a sort of spark.

You never forget something like that.

How did he feel afterwards ?

To be honest, above all we felt joy
at having our plan succeed.

Immediately after,
we washed and changed our clothes,

and we learned that 11 Germans
had already been killed.

Children went from hut to hut
to keep us informed.

We also had a kapo on our side.

He said, "Everything is going
according to plan."

Am I mistaken,
or has he gone pale ?

Of course I’m pale.

When you recall things like that –

the joy of succeeding –

When you recall things like that,

you can’t help
but feel something bubbling up inside.

It’s a feeling of joy
at having succeeded,

but you have tears in your eyes
because so many died there.

It’s the satisfaction of succeeding
in avenging those who died

and the feeling
of having done the right thing.

At 5:00, we’d already finished
and gathered together,

ready to put the rest of the plan
into action.

An experience like this
happens once in a lifetime.

It’s the experience of life and death.

Has he ever killed again?

No.

Yes, I’ve killed as a soldier
when fighting as a partisan,

but that was different,

fighting other armed fighters.

Whereas in the camp

we weren’t even human,
not even subhuman!

We no longer knew what we were.

It was an indescribable feeling.

Later, it was soldiers against soldiers,
weapon to weapon.

It was another type of war.

Whereas there. . .

it was extermination, not war.

There, they turned people
into wild beasts – less than wild beasts.

We weren’t human, not even a number.
We were less than nothing.

At such a moment,
to succeed in killing a German

who has exterminated
hundreds of thousands of people –

Of course your heart
is filled with joy.

At that time, I already knew
what German power represented.

I already knew how far
their cruelty could go –

a cruelty
that boggles the human mind.

I already knew
what wild beasts they were.

So, it’s 5:00 p.m –

At the camp,
they did roll call every day at 5:00 p.m.

At roll call,
all the prisoners gathered

and lined up.

At that point,
a German named Frenzel,

who’s actually in prison
in Germany today –

Frenzel would call our names,
and then we could disperse.

At 5:00 p.m. . . .

we were already ready for roll call.

At 5:00 p.m. we were already
waiting for roll call.

Some of our comrades had weapons,

pistols taken from the Germans
we’d killed.

At 5:00 p.m. , we were waiting for Frenzel,
but he doesn’t come!

In the history of the camp, Frenzel
was always there at 5:00 p.m. to call roll.

He must have sensed
something was going on,

because he had no phone,
no electricity, nothing.

In any case, at 5:00 p.m. ,
Frenzel doesn’t show.

No time to lose.

We realized we had no time to waste,

so our Russian-speaking
comrades shouted

so the Ukrainians around the camp,
guarding it, could hear,

"Hooray! We’ve succeeded
in killing the Germans! Let’s escape!"

Everyone runs.

Everyone runs toward the fence.

At this point,
the camp is in pandemonium.

Everyone runs to the fence,
and the Ukrainians open fire.

Some people get through the fence,

and explosions are heard
all over the camp.

The fence was no longer electrified,
but there was still the minefield.

Explosions everywhere.

We managed to reach
the camp’s weapons depot,

and, with those weapons,
we went through the fence.

The surrounding forest
was only 500 yards away.

The entire camp
was surrounded by forest.

We could hear Frenzel’s voice
in the camp,

giving orders to pursue us
and shoot us.

Everyone runs through the fence.

I’m already on the other side.

It starts to rain.
Not hard, just drops.

In Poland, in October,
it’s already dark at 5:00 p.m.

I ran into the forest,
and, at that point,

perhaps due to emotion
after all I’d experienced,

to exhaustion and darkness,

my legs could no longer carry me,
and I collapsed.

I dropped and fell asleep.

We’ll stop here.

It’s so beautiful
when he collapses in the forest.

The rest is an adventure of freedom.

The extermination devices
and gas chambers

were demolished by the Germans

immediately after the uprising.

No more convoys
arrived at Sobibor station.

There, at least,
the extermination had been stopped.

People transported
to the Sobibor death camp

from the General Government of Poland,

meaning the part of Poland
not annexed to the Third Reich:

April 2, 1942 from Rejowiec: 2,400.

April from Zamość: 300.
April from Krychów: 250.

May 3 from Komarów: 2,000.

May 5 from Opole Lubelskie: 2,000.

May 6 from Dęblin-Irena: 2,500.

May 7 from Ryki: 2,500.
May 7 from Józefów: 1,270.

May 8 from Baranów: 1,500.
May 8 from Końskowola: 1,580.

May 9 from Markuszów: 1,500.
May 9 from Łęczna: 200.

May 10 from Michów: 2,500.

May 12 from Opole: 2,000.
May 12 from Turobin: 2,000.

May from Puławy: 2,500.
May 12- 15 from Żółkiewka: 1,000.

May 13- 14 from Gorzków: 2,000.
May 14- 15 from Krasnystaw: 3,400.

May 15 from Izbica: 400.
May 15- 16 from Zamość again: 5,000.

May 18 from Siedliszcze: 630.
May 2 1-23 from Chełm: 2,300.

May 23 from Włodawa: 1,200.
May 25-30 from Chełm again: 1,500.

May from Łysobyki: 500.
May from Wąwolnica: 500.

May from Kraśniczyn:
figure was not provided.

May from Rudnik: figure unknown.
May from Wysokie: 1,000.

May from Cyców: unknown.
May from Krasnystaw: unknown.

May from Staw: 800.

June 1-2 from Hrubieszów: 3,049.

June 2 from Bełżec: 1,000.
It must have been their overflow.

June 2 from Dubienka: 2,670.
June 6 from Kraśniczyn: 800.

June 7-9 from Hrubieszów: 500.
June 8 from Grabówiec: 1,200.

June 10 from Uchanie: 1,650.
June 10 from Biała Podlaska: 3,000.

June 13,
again from Biała Podlaska: 6,000.

June from Cyców: 500.
June from Sławatycze: 1,000.

June from Dubeczno : figure unknown.

Still in 1942,
June from Olchowiec: figure unknown.

From Pawłów: unknown.
From Sawin: unknown.

From Krzywowierzba: unknown.
From Kraśniczyn: unknown.

June 29 from Majdanek: 5,000.

July 24 from Włodawa: 100.

July from Chełm: 300.

August 10 from Rejowiec: 2,000.

August 10 from Żółkiewka: 1,000.

September 6 from Ustrzyki:
figure unknown.

September 8 from Ryczywół: 69.

October 1-5 from Puchaczów: 150.

October 8 from Izbica: 1,500.

October 10 from Rejowiec: 2,400.

October 11 from Lubartów: 3,000.

October from Wojsławice: 1,200.

October 22 from Siedliszcze: 500.

October 22-30 from Piaski-Izbica: 5,000.

October 23 from Łęczna: 3,000.

October 24 from Włodawa: 5,000.

October 27-28, again from Chełm: 3,000.

October 28 from Hrubieszów: 2,000.

October 30 from Włodawa: 500.

October from Bełżyce-Bychawa: 7,000.

November 2 from Chełm: 10,000,
surely the main liquidation.

November 2 from Izbica: 1,750.

November 6 from Chełm: figure unknown

November 6 from Staw: 800.

December from Dubeczno : 650.

1943, January from Izbica: 750.

January from Chełm: unknown.
February from Chełm: 300.

February from Zamość: 500.
April 4 from Izbica: 300.

April 28 from Izbica: 200.

April 29 from Łęczna: 200.

April 30 from Włodawa: 2,000.

May 1- 7 from Włodawa: 150.

May 22 from Lwów: unknown.
June 26 from Bełżec: 306.

July 4 from Lwów: unknown.

August 8 from Dębica: 2,000.

August 1943 from Białystok: unknown.

August-September from Zamość: 800.

September 10 from Dorohucza: unknown.

September 20 from Białystok: unknown.

September 25 from Trawniki:
unknown.

October 20 from Treblinka:
over 100.

People transported to the Sobibor
death camp

from foreign countries:

1942, from April to June

from Protectorate
of Bohemia and Moravia: 6,000.

From April to June
from Germany and Austria: 10,000.

From April to October
from Slovakia: 24,378.

1943, March 5-6 from
Westerbork, Holland: 1,105.

March 6 from France: 7 1.

March 11 from France: 200.

March 13 from Holland: 1,105.

March 18 from France: unknown.

March 20 from Holland: 964.

March 26 from Holland: 1,250.

March 3 1 from Germany: unknown.

April 2 from Holland: 1,255.

April 9 from Holland: 2,020.

April 16 from Holland: 1,204.

April 2 1 from Berlin, Germany: 938.

April 23 from Holland: 1,166.

April 25 from France: 2,000.

April 30 from Holland: 1,204.

May 7 from Holland: 1,187.

May 14 from Holland: 1,446.

May 2 1 from Holland: 2,511.

May 28 from Holland: 2,862.

June 4 from Holland: 3,006.

June 8 from Holland: 1,266.

June 11 from Holland: 3,017.

July 2 from Holland: 2,397.

July 9 from Holland: 2,417.

July 16 from Holland: 1,988.

July 23 from Holland: 2,209.

September 18- 19
Soviet Socialistic Republic,

from Lida: 2,700.

September from Vilnius: unknown.
September from Smolensk: unknown.

September from Mogilev: unknown.

September from Babruysk: unknown.

September 18-23 from Minsk: 6,000.
This was surely Lerner’s convoy.

September 23-24 from Vilnius: 5,000.

September from Stryi: unknown.

In total, over 250,000 victims.