Sleeping with the Far Right (2019) - full transcript

I'm off to the seaside, not for a
holiday, it's more a journey into
the unknown.

My name is Alice Levine.
Really dislike, have got a lot of
attention...

VOICEOVER: I'm a broadcaster on
radio and TV.

I love living in London and like
many of my generation,

I embrace diversity and tolerance.

CHANTING

But all over the world, far-right
fringe groups are gaining power.

And I'm concerned it could happen
here.

Britain first!

Fighting back!

I want to understand what drives
people to extremism.



So, I'm going to spend a week living
with British far-right activist,

Jack Sen.

One of the reasons people like us
target Muslims,

is because you can get away with it.

Jack is so far-right that when he
stood for election as a Ukip MP,

the party expelled him for an
anti-Semitic tweet.

I'm sorry about it, we've suspended
him.

Then, he joined the far right BNP,

but they soon suspended him, too.

He's definitely going to say stuff
that turns my stomach, I think.

But, if I just go in all guns
blazing, half an hour into staying

with him I just don't think that
we're going to get anywhere.

So, I would rather talk to him about
it

and let's try and go a step further
than that.



Seven days is a really long time as
well.

A really long time.

I'm 200 miles from my home in London
in the seaside town of Southport

near Liverpool, about to meet
Jack Sen and his family.

That's Funland - this is it.

Ooh, I'm nervous now!

Hello. Hi, how are you?
Hi, good - I'm Alice.

Hi Alice, Jack. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you, Jack. How are you
doing?

Hi, I'm Alice. I'm a bit shy.

Shy. You a bit shy? Oh, nice to meet
you. Alice, hello.

My name is Alex!

You're not that shy, then!

That was a really good introduction.

Say hello Alex - wave.

Hi. Hi!

This is Southport. This is
Southport, this is the big tour.

It is, yeah, this is kind of the
iconic Funland.

You know, I travelled the world
and came back to Southport

because of the feeling of the place,
the fact that it's remained

relatively as it was even 20-30
years ago.

Yeah. It's not change the way some
other places have changed.

I'll be honest, you don't sound like
I imagined you to sound.

Yes, quite interesting. I was born
in Britain,

but raised in the United States from
the age of seven through about 20.

One of the reasons I came back is I
didn't like the United States.

I didn't like the multicultural
aspect of the US.

I mean, I'm not fully British,
obviously.

My father is actually half Indian.
I just felt that...

Your father's half Indian?

Yeah, yeah. A lot of people don't
know that, yeah.

Jack's not quite the British
nationalist I expected.

How did someone of Indian heritage
who wasn't raised here end up

in the British National Party?

Look, I was embraced by people in
the BNP.

I'm not fully British.
What does it say about them?

That they like a cultural melting
pot?

I don't think so - I think they
recognised that I was a good guy

and that I spoke from the heart
and in some way,

I could help them sell their
message.

Since leaving the BNP, Jack's been
running his operations from home.

This quiet suburb is where I'll be
staying for the next seven days

with Jack, his wife, daughter and
mother, Faye.

Hello. I'm Alice.

Nice to meet you. It's so nice to
meet you, thank you for having us.

You are very welcome. What
a lovely place and a lovely garden.

I'm so sorry we descended on you for
a whole week.

That's OK, it's exciting, you
know...

Are you excited for it?

Well, of course because I'm into
politics cos of my son, obviously.

And he tells me lots of stuff and I
learn a lot.

Cos I grew up in a traditional
Britain.

Villagers that used to be kind of
unspoilt

and with a little post office and
you know?

See, I'm very sentimental and
traditional and so obviously

those things that vanish really
bother me.

And I think that we don't have
anybody in our country

who is actually fighting for us the
people, and that's why I just wish

we had a Donald Trump, but we don't
- I love him.

Do you really, you wish there was a
kind of Donald character?
He's my hero.

Yes, because he said, "I want to
make America great again."

And the list of those things that
he's done in the time

he's been in office is absolutely
amazing.

I get it all on Fox.

This is all facts, this is not made
up stuff - it's not fake news.

Absolutely not, because I wouldn't
like fake news either.

He's my hero.

So, who do you think is our best
hope for a Trump-like leader here?

My son. No!

Yeah... Enjoy!

Living with a far-right family, I'll
have to put on my best poker face

this week no matter how strange
things get.

Because we're in these kind of
political situations,

I kind of have things alarmed
after a certain time at night.

OK. So, we don't really want you to
go out anywhere

after a certain time, is that OK?

Oh, I love a night in, Faye.

That is right up my street. I wasn't
planning on going to the disco,

so that's fine. Seven o'clock-ish,
something like that.

Seven o'clock for the alarms on?

Yes. Yeah, it's because I ran for
office.

We've had a lot of threats.

Yeah, my hustings was threatened
with bombing when I spoke...

When I was due to speak at the
Lancashire hustings.

We've had police coming constantly
for threats, unfortunately.

A of threats.

The security lockdown is unnerving.

But I try to settle in.

OK, so, this is the room we do
all our events in,

so we have a lot of seating here.
Nice big room.

Yeah, it's a big room.

So, I can keep down here, can I?
Yeah. Fantastic. And...

Yeah, these have fitted sheets.

New soaps... Oh, brilliant!
..new sheets.

Nice high-quality for the price.
You're the best, thank you very
much.

Yeah, I want to make it comfortable
for you. Wonderful.

My only concern is, is there
anywhere for me to do pull-ups?

Oh wait, it's here. Oh, yeah.

HE LAUGHS
There you go.
Thank God, cos I really have

to do my pull-ups every day -
that's, like, non-negotiable.
I do everyday, so...

OK, yeah. That's really good, great.
Good.

Oh, my God, you... Oh, my God,
you're a fitness freak! Yeah.

It's easy for me, cos I've been
doing it for...

I'm impressed.

Something did crack, though.

What do you think that was?

Old age.

We're not allowed out after the
seven o'clock curfew,

so I fill the hours before bedtime
by finding out more about Jack.

I would've liked to run for Mayor
of London against Sadiq Khan.

Although the person who ran as
the BNP's candidate is a decent guy,

I don't think he had the ability to
kind of make a real impact.

I think I could have made a real
impact.

He actually tried his best to look
not racist.

Whereas, I wouldn't do that.

I would point out...

..you know, the problems with
Sadiq Khan and black-on-black crime

and this, that, and the other.

You know, when you look at the
London murders, half of them are on
CCTV.

You can see the guy walk down the
street and it's a black guy.

You bring in these people for free
labour,

you know, you suffer the
consequences of having them

for eternity, basically.
It's a curse, I really believe that.

I genuinely believe that - I don't
want to live in a society

where there are that many black
people.

And I think that a decent person and
someone who's involved in politics

wouldn't want that on their streets.

I've only been here for a few hours
but already the extent

of Jack's intolerance is pretty
clear.

Mass immigration should stop,

whether it's from Iraq or Senegal or
Poland - doesn't matter.

It should stop.

And then you can at least kind of,
you know...

..sit down and formulate some sort
of policy.

The demographics have changed to
such an extent, it's going to be
hard now to stop it.

Turn back the clock.

Yeah, it's going to be next to
impossible.

Like, London's gone.

Birmingham's gone...

There's no way to take it back.

I just want to ask you if you would
like a cup of tea.

Oh, I would love a cup of tea.

I'm sure you would, yes.

I came before but I didn't want to
interrupt because

it always looks so busy.

Thanks, Faye.

I'm going to get some rest now.

We have a long day tomorrow.

Sleep tight. Thank you very much.
Thanks, Jack. Have a good night,

take care, bye-bye - oh, jeez!

Too low, yeah!

WHISPERS: It is a bit like the
weirdest school exchange ever.

He said some absolutely ludicrous
things about black people.

I mean, his general policies on life
are troubling.

I'd say 11 on the troubling scale

and it's a 1-5 scale, so...

I think it's a bulletproof vest.

It was behind one of the living room
chairs.

Why would he need this?
Has he left this here for me?

Is it like when you leave someone
towels on the end of the bed?

"There are your towels,
there's some soap.

"There is a bulletproof vest."

I'm spending a week living
with far right extremist Jack Sen

and his family.

Some juice, if you want,
some smoothie?

Oh, lovely, that sounds great.

You've got your red
wine in the fridge.

We use that for cooking.

It's there for up to ten days,
two weeks.

And what would you usually
have for breakfast?

A granola bar and some milk.
That's it?

That's it, yeah.
To stay thin.

Have you always been trim? Yes.

I played a lot of sports
as a kid, so it was always

really important for me.

I'm not the biggest person
in the world, I'm only 5'8,

13 and a half stone,
so in order for me to keep up

with men who are bigger
than I am in sports,

I had to always keep strong.

So I pride myself in remaining
strong to this day.

Like, even going out with other
friends, nationalist arm wrestling,

I pride myself on beating them and

they're three times bigger than me,
sort of thing.

I think it's important, I really
think a man should stay in shape.

Western culture's just disgusting
and hedonistic.

So people say you're fighting
to preserve Western culture,

no, I'm not, I'm fighting to bring
back Western culture.

I don't want to preserve
what's here now.

I think what's here now
is disgusting, really.

What was prime?
What was a prime year?

1937. 37?

What was going on
in '37 that you loved?

If you look at the old nationalist
movements, the sort of men that led

the movements were all physically
fit, strong, athletic, intelligent,

and you look what's happened
today, what they look like,

how they act and it's just...

To keep in peak condition, just
like his heroes, the right wing

leaders of the 1930s,
Jack works out daily,

alongside his wife and daughter.

Your legs are still going down.

It's because they're not
strong, they're buckling.

You do how many of these?
I can do 50.

Oh, my God!

After the morning exercise regime,
Jack gets down to work.

Since leaving mainstream politics
three years ago, Jack has set up

over 25 websites and numerous
Facebook pages to promote

his far right beliefs.

The far right should be talking
about all the issues that we believe

needs repair before
we move forward.

Jack tells me that these campaigns
are privately funded

by his supporters.

Let's go on to the Facebook and
we can take a little look see.

What's Lone Volchok?
Oh, you told me.

Yeah, it means lone wolf in Russian.

Are you a lone wolf?

Actually, I chose that name
about ten years ago.

I used to be fascinated
by wolves, actually.

This is the beauty of Facebook.

I published this one.

When Winnie Mandela died, instead
of me saying she's a monster,

I just created a post
saying Mandela's wife, Winnie,

was a zealous and open applicant
for one of the most brutal murder

tactics ever conceived by man,
as many blacks were murdered

by Winnie and her anti-terrorist
partners.

And I'm using that intentionally
to demonstrate that she victimised

blacks as well, because then
liberals will see that, or moderates

will see it and think,

"Oh, she didn't just kill the evil
white man,

"she also killed her black
brothers," and that will get them
thinking a little bit.

And it will make your reach wider.
Of course it well.

A lot of liberals will see
it and think, "She killed blacks?"

"So why is the left canonising
her? It's simple,

"Because they too are
consumed with hatred.

"Warmest regards, Jack Sen."

Warmest regards!

Of course, I'm messaging
my supporters.

It's a letter to my people.

"Warmest regards" is really funny.

Why is it funny? It's warmth,
it shows warmth.

It does show warmth.
So, uncover it.

It's dangerous, you might, your hand
might catch on fire.

Because it's violent
and graphic content.

Just be careful.

So she was...

You know what necklacing means,
right? yeah, I do.

She put a tie around the man's neck,
put petrol in it and burned him

to the ground while alive.

That's why they didn't take it down,
because it's not fake news.

That's a really extreme
image, isn't it?

I've never had my Facebook
account taken down.

Everybody else I know has, like me.

I've never had any of my
channels taken down. Why?

I know how to play the game.

I know what to say
and what not to say.

I understand, because I've been
on the phone with them many times

to find out what I can
do and cannot do.

It was seen by 58,000 people.

Do you think fringe politicians
use shock tactics

more than the mainstream?

We have to.
You have to?

We have no choice, shock and awe
as the Americans would say.

Shock and awe, baby.

Jack has lots of targets.

Among them, Muslims, Jews,
immigrants, homosexuals, feminists,

liberals and left-wingers.

His views are offensive.

But I want to find out
more about who Jack was

before he got
involved in politics.

I was a musical major,
originally at university.

A singer, believe it or not.

And I was in musical theatre
when I was younger.

Most of the men were homosexual

and they were unbearable
to work with.

Why were they unbearable
to work with?

Well, very crass. Always off key?

Always off key, always sexual,
by the way. Extremely sexual.

Like, talk about sex acts,
talk about body parts.

They felt they could
get away with it.

One of the guys I worked with...
Frat boys talking about...

Have you been in a frat?
I was in a frat. They don't.

But you know that happens.
They don't, I was in a frat.

Are you telling me that boys
don't talk about their sexual

escapades in frat houses? No.

They don't talk about details, no.
No, never.

I've never heard any discussion like
that. Absolutely not.

This one guy I worked with once,
he drew a picture of his

you-know-what on the
chalkboard, for fun.

I've never seen that, any straight
man do anything like that before.

Never.

They think they can get away
with it, just like the Muslim

grooming gangs thought
they can get away with it.

Why did they think they can
get away with it? Because...

Their beautiful voices
and making rhythm.

No. Because they know you can't
really challenge them.

Because you'll be called homophobic.

So do you think you would still
be in musical theatre now

if the make-up of that group
had been different?

Perhaps, yeah.

I really enjoyed it.

I left all of the music
behind me when I was 18.

So I don't see this as
left or right, I see this as

good versus evil. Things are moving
at the end of the day.

So what are you guys pushing?

The truth, decency, righteousness.

We want to rebuild the country,
stop the killing, close the borders.

Jack's online campaigns often
feature his wife and daughter

promoting traditional family values.

Jack's wife, Natasha,
is from a Ukrainian family,

so I'm curious about what she makes
of British nationalism.

What did you think? You saw him
from afar, his lovely curly hair

blowing in the wind...

OK, this is really funny
but I thought he looks

like Keanu Reeves and he is
one of my favourite actors

and I was like,

"Oh! Tell me more about this guy."

Did you realise quite quickly
that your ideologies were similar?

Well, I suppose I grew up in a
place without any minorities,

so for me to see a minority
was a novelty.

So why Britain, because you are
a very international family

in a lot of ways.

Why is Britain home?

I think it's mostly
because in Southport,

86% born British people.

Full-on estimate, all the crimes...

SHE MUMBLES

..and when black people start

moving into the city, if the amount
of them becomes more than 16%,

the city becomes a ghetto.

Shootings, stabbings, rapes...

Is it a thing you worry about?

Yes, when you have a daughter,
when you have a girl.

I don't know, do you live in London?
I do.

How do you live there?
Aren't you scared to walk home?

I don't actually feel scared.

So you have never experienced
anybody jumping on you?

I actually haven't.

Luckily I actually haven't, but
I understand that there's a risk.

I agree, there's definitely a risk.

But there's a risk here too of
bad things happening, right?

In Southport, no.

But white men commit
the majority of rapes. White man?

Are they born in Britain or are
they Lithuanians, Polish?

White men.

I don't believe you.
You don't believe me?

What about those Muslims.
Are they white?

They're not committing
the majority of rapes.

Yes, they are, they are grooming.
Alice!

Yes, Alex, yes?
I don't know how to whistle.

You don't know how to whistle?

Like this...

You're kind of doing it.

Oh, you can whistle.
Jack cannot whistle.

He can't whistle?

That's going to be his downfall.

All the great leaders
have to whistle! One little thing...

We will practise.

I find it depressing that Natasha
is fearful of every non-white

face she sees.

Living with Jack and his family
is so far removed from my own

experience of living in Britain.

But, at least Jack and I
have one thing in common.

A love of cooking.

I'd like to know how to make
a really good Italian sauce.

OK, we can do that.

So, whenever you have the garlic
and then I'll throw in

some ground pork.

Lovely. Oh, thank you.

Thank you very much.

Can we start? Great.

Mm. So good.

Jack, he said to me he wants me
to read one of my poems

out to everyone.
I said I'd love to.

I have a lovely one about England
that's really good.

Yeah. I'd love to hear that.

Tonight, we're sitting down
for dinner with Jack's mum,

Fay, a self published poet
who is also fluent in several

European languages.

I'm going to have to excuse myself,
I'm sorry, because I have to go.

Why? I have to. Why?
Are you on the phone or something?

Yes, I have to.
She's on the phone.

With the French guy? Probably, yeah.
Talking French.

So, how does she know
the French guy?

I have no idea.

I think it was...

Believe it or not,
from some Front National group.

Really? Yeah.

Is it a romantic...

I don't know, I don't get involved.

OK, it's your mum.

Like she wouldn't ask me
what my love life with my wife,

so I won't ask. That is
a good point.

SPEECH IN FRENCH

I mean, when I was running for
Parliament, I remember I used

to interview myself
on different websites.

I would pretend to be
an interviewer, interview myself.

Did you really? Yeah.
What, under another name?

Yeah. So I would write the questions
and write the answers, basically.

Oh, my God! And then I would leak
these stories to the Daily Mail and

papers and they would ring me right
away. "Did you really answer this?"

I actually wrote the questions
and wrote the answers. Yeah.

There's a lot of tricks.
There are.

Yeah, a lot of tricks.
I can't go through all of them.

There are just too many
and some of them

are really underhanded, basically.

Manipulating the mainstream media.

You're a puppeteer?
Yeah.

Just two days into my stay
and I'm starting to get a picture

of the dark arts Jack employs
to get his message out.

But perhaps most alarming
is how Jack targets people

who publicly disagree with him
by posting videos and articles

to discredit them.

What we try to do also, is,
when we target someone, well,

we don't target people on the right,
obviously, but we make sure

if you Google them,
it comes up first.

But you did that, you pushed...

I have Russian web admins
who do that for me.

Who push up on the SEO and
you'd give them a specific

bit of content like this and
say, I want that number two.

I pay them. And is it expensive? No.

I can put my article
about you at the top.

I could write anything I wanted to.

That's incredible. Yeah.

We've done it many times
to many people.

You can destroy someone
who is damaging your work.

You can destroy someone's career
by doing that?

If it's necessary, that's what why
the Daily Mirror targeted me

because we did it to one
of their reporters.

We hammered her.

She basically attacked me
relentlessly in the press,

so I basically had my guys take
the article that was written

and drive it home at the top.

That has blown my mind,

that you could create the whole
first page of Google about somebody,

could be content you had curated,
because you could be really

vicious with that.

You have the toolkit to be. Of
course, yeah.

That scares me, because
would you do that to me?

No, I wouldn't.

If you intentionally tried to harm
me, anything's possible, I suppose.

But I wouldn't do it.
I wouldn't do it.

Thank you so much for dinner.

You're very welcome.

Oh, my God.

WHISPERS: I feel being in this house
doesn't help me get much perspective

on whether it's smoke and mirrors
or not.

But it makes me feel weird,
because I feel like if I make a film

that he doesn't like,
he could cut some stuff together

to make things look...

..not as they occurred.

But I guess that's part of the risk
of doing it in the first place.

and his family,

to try and understand
where his extreme beliefs come from.

There's the biggest run of houses
near to the schools, yes?

SHE SPEAKS HER OWN LANGUAGE

# If you turn me down once more

# I'll join the
French Foreign Legion

# Maybe they would welcome me
with open arms

# First you love me, yes

# Then you love me, no
I don't know where I stand

# Do we march together down the
aisle...#

SHE SPEAKS FRENCH

# It's the French Foreign Legion

# For me... #

One, two, three, four...

Are you OK if I
jump in the shower?

Sure, of course. Yeah, yeah. Fine.

Today, Jack's taking me
into Southport town centre.

Faye, we're going to head, then.

You've got the place to yourselves.
Go wild, Faye.

Oh, I will.
I'll dance and I'll sing, too.

All right, you shortly.
See you, later. Bye-bye.

As well as his online campaigning,
Jack meets regularly with other

far-right activists,
to discuss their common cause.

You know, this is not that peculiar
for our sorts of meetings.

I mean, people think that it's,
kind of, like, people huddled

around a table wearing
robes in the dark.

It's just a lot of good humour, good
fun and political conversation.

Is it treated like a meeting?
Do you have, like, an agenda

where there's stuff that you need
to cover? We talk politics.

Like, Carl and I will discuss the
activities he's going to engage in,
the operations down south.

And we'll talk about the radio show
he is going to be producing

in the next couple of weeks. Yeah,
exactly. What were you going to say?

We are not racists, like they call
us, cos Jack's foreign, if you like.

We don't call...can I say it
on camera? Yeah.

We don't call black people, we don't
call them niggers or chinks.

We don't talk like that.

Do you get a label?
Do you get labelled?

Well, of course you get labelled.

But the fact is, that there's
no debate about it.

Their answer to that is
to call you names,

disgusting names, actually.

Shout you down, break your windows,

damage your car and whatever it is
that they will do.

So, there's no dialogue.

I came at this, I was a paid-up
member of the Labour Party

in the 1990s.

And I was a union rep,
a trade union rep, as well.

In this country, Muslims,
homosexuals, different ethnic

minorities are used as a weapon
to take our freedoms from us.

There's a feeling throughout
this country, at the moment,

by ordinary people in the streets,
especially in working-class

communities, there's an electricity.

People know there's something wrong.

And I believe, because of what Islam
is doing within our country,

we need to reignite Christianity
and bring Christians back

into the churches again.

I feel like I, kind of,
have an overview or an idea

of the ideology, but in real terms,
how can you make an impact?

How can you make a change?

The democratic system
is rigged against us.

So, what do you do?

You then resort to,
if you like, guerrilla warfare.

Things will escalate in the future.

And if it really goes the whole hog,

there will be violence
on the street.

What do you mean
by guerrilla warfare?

Well, we produce placards.

We produce leaflets that aren't PC.

And then we're going to set up a
network, which is set up already,

of people to go out and they will
plaster these placards

in public places,
so people can read them and think.

Like, we equate the Labour Party
with paedophilia.

We literally link them,
because most people will recognise

that the Labour Party promotes
and empowers paedophiles.

And not just Muslim,
but grooming gangs.

We are talking about paedophiles
across the board.

The sheep out there are still
oblivious to what's going on.

Jack's guerrilla activists deface
road signs to publicise bold

but unsubstantiated claims.

And they hung this notice
on a statue of Nelson Mandela

in London's Parliament Square.

Jack then posted
these images online,

where they receive hundreds
of thousands of views.

Right, so this is the sort
of thing that we produce.

We are trying to make
a specific point here.

So, our flags are, that's a...

Gay pride flag. The rainbow, yep.
And the Islamic flag.

So, you put those up with your guys,
or they go and put them up.

They put them up. And then
what would happen with these?

With leaflets, if someone
doesn't want to go out and put

something out at night, they can go
down to a high street or somewhere

and just hand out a leaflet.

We don't force them on people.

People are quite receptive to this?
Some are, some aren't.

We're not out to recruit people.
We're just showing them

what's happened. A lot of people
don't know... Well, it would be good
to recruit people, though, surely?

No, we're really not...
We're not looking to recruit people.

No, but you said
you need more people in the network.

We don't want to become like the
Tory Party or the Labour Party,

cos then it's a nightmare to run.

I wonder if you'd...which would
be more powerful,

you receiving this leaflet

or you know how you said,
when you weren't getting jobs

because you're white and British...
Yep.

..do you feel like that was
a more energising force,

because you lived it?

Yeah, to me. OK.

Being discriminated
against for jobs, in my own country.

And having my dad with me, as well.

And someone says,
"Sorry, you can't have a job,

"we only employ East Europeans"
That's why I got involved.

That was a life-changing moment?
That was it, yep.

SHE WHISPERS:
It would be fine if you went to the
pub with them and just talked

about football and talked
about life and weather.

They all feel that they've been
the victims of an unfair system.

I can sympathise to a certain extent
with the feeling,

but at what point do you go,

"I didn't get a job because
I was discriminated against,"

and let that take
over your whole life?

One, two, three.

Higher, higher.

This is good.

Don't hurt me!

Put your legs over. Ready?

17, 18, 19.

Higher, yep, and try to make it
tight, like you're resisting it.

Oh, yeah. OK.
You feel it?

45. 50. Oh, God!

It's done. That's me.

Jack's background is so different
from his British nationalist friends

that I want to find out
more about his upbringing.

Yeah, I talked to you about poetry
earlier in the week. Yeah.

I would love you to read me some.

I also, kind of, want to know about,
like, Jack as a little boy

and what do you remember of Jack
when he was ten?

Well, I can, my best memories
of him probably,

and I have a picture of him
when he was five, at school.

He was a very sweet little boy.

He was always very bright,
too talkative, of course.

Yeah. Very, very smart in school.

He loves to chat.
Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Jack's father was of Indian
and South African heritage.

He moved the family to America
when Jack was seven.

What was it like being in a
mixed-race couple in the 1970s?

In America, we had a difficult time,
because it was a Jewish school

district and they were not
very accepting of us.

My son, in school,
he got into lots of fights,

because he was quite smallish
in height.

And one day in the school, I happen
to come into the music teacher's

class and my son was on the floor.

And there was this boy
on top of him.

Oh, God. And he was, like,
three times the size of my son.

That's probably why he did
his lifting of his weights,

because he wanted to be able
to defend himself against these

creatures who didn't like him,
you know.

Some lines of that in my poem.
I was going to ask, actually.

We must talk poetry.

This is your lovely book, Life's
Adventures In Classical Rhyme.

Right. Faye Lowley.

I love this one, but, obviously,
partly because we're talking

about Jack, would you mind reading
this one?

Well, I presume it's about Jack,
it might not be. It probably is.

There is one about dedication
to a loved one.

What courage you have,
beloved of mine.

I cannot forget
how much we've endured.

But now we've overcome.

Let's drink the wine.

The time has come
to savour our reward.

My love for you has hopefully
instilled some faith

and burning, longing to succeed.

On the right path your goals
will be fulfilled.

I'll not forsake you
in your time of need.

Go forth and write.

Show them with all your might,
your courage

and what lies within your heart.

Another great one.

Thank you.

If somebody wrote that about me,
I'd be very, very happy.

Like any proud mother, Faye seizes
the opportunity to show me

some childhood photos.

Oh, my gosh!

Show me.

Oh, what a cutie,
I can already tell.

What's "Dilip at school"?
Or "De-lip at school"?

Well, that's, I guess,
the name we gave him.

Oh, that's the name you gave him?
Yes, sure, yeah.

Oh, so Jack Sen's his,
kind of, political name?

Yeah. Well, you see,
what he's decided,

and I think this is a very good
thing that he said,

"I don't think they'll accept me,
if they see my name like that."

But when was that,
when did he change it?

2015? Was that the election?

So, what was his name before?

Dilip. Dilip Sengupta.

It's an Indian name, obviously.

I chose it because it sounded
like Philip, you know.

I want to hear from Jack why he felt
he had to change his name.

Your mum mentioned your name,
your previous name,

Dilip Sengupta, and I wondered
if you could talk to me

a little bit about that.

I don't want to have that in the
film, can we avoid having that?

Cos I changed that for legal
reasons.

Can we not have that in the film?

I don't know why my mother
even mentioned that,

she should not have done that.
Cos that's been legally changed,

that was for a, kind of,
important reason.

The combination of names would be
more identifiable as Indian.

I don't know why, she should not
have mentioned that.

I mean, I am furious at her,
because that, kind of, ruins

the whole thing for me.
She was actually... I know she was,

but she should know better,
it's just ridiculous.

I don't want that in the film.
Why would it ruin things for you?

Because I don't want it in the film.

I'm finished, finished.
And this is actually finished now,

because I'm telling you,
it's not fucking relevant.

Either she's a poor interviewer...
I'm not, I'm not...

..cos it's not relevant.

I'm here, you can talk to me.

One uses elements of their person.

As tools to sell the message,
I get that.

Yeah, that's it.
So, why am I not selling that?

Because it's irrelevant
to the message.

What shaped my identity
and what shaped my political beliefs

is the fact that when I lived
in multicultural America,

in a Jewish community,
I felt miserable.

And everything I did was,
it was downgraded.

I thought it was something
to do with me.

Like, perhaps I wasn't doing
a good job.

And I couldn't get away from it.

Whether it was cos I was part
Indian, whether it was cos I was

half Indian, three-quarters Indian,
a quarter this, a quarter that.

Whether it was because I had
an Indian name, a non-Indian name.

Let me finish.
Whether it was Jewish or.... No.

Whether I was a Gentile or not
a Gentile, it was down

to the multiethnic
community and the fact

that the establishment was Jewish.

I believe that multiethnic
societies are toxic

for people who live in them.

You keep to your own.

And I really don't have an own,
this is the problem.

I didn't have an own.

Here I am, who's my own?

What? Who's my own?
People in West Lancashire?

My mother's Irish friend,
because I'm part Irish?

That I can see, that bit I see.

Like, who did you have,
like, who were your group?

And I get that, I totally get that.

Of course I see the, like the
benefits of identifying in a group.

But I don't think that that means
that you can't be accepting.

This is what I'm talking about.

That's why
I'm against multiculturalism.

I believe
it's self-defence mechanism.

If someone slaps you,
and those people in that group

are taught to hate you
and slap you, you have the right

to be fearful of them.

And that's what shaped me.

Alice.

Alice.

Sorry about waking you up
in the morning to do the exercise.

I haven't exercised yet.

Oh, yeah. Right.
And you got me in a towel,

which was not intentional,
it was totally inadvertent,

cos, like, literally I just
washed up and I'm dripping, so...

Oh, man.

Ten years ago, yeah, I intentionally
would have had my six-pack on.

So, what's...?

I did not want to be in a towel,
OK, but it's fine.

I didn't think you'd like tattoos.
What is it? I can't really see

from here,
what is it, is it a dolphin?

No, it's a wolf.

I do actually like wolves, the alpha
wolf and kind of the whole structure

of the pack.

You know. I'll let you guys to it.

What a way to wake up.

Hi, Dr Duke.
Hey, Jack, how are you doing?

Pretty good, Dr Duke,
as usual, good to hear your voice.

Jack's day begins with a call
to David Duke,

a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan.

We're not race haters,
Jack's not a race hater,

I'm not a race hater,
I'm a race lover.

But we all have a right
to preserve our identity.

That's in nature, every breed
of wolf has that,

every breed of bear.

If the average moderate person
hears what we have to say,

the vast majority of them
will agree with us.

Except for a few Jews and people
who are just so prejudiced,

can't even open their mind
for a second, right? Yeah...

OK, I've got to go, I've got some
things I've got to do.

I enjoyed it, guys, see you later.

Bye-bye, David.

These are really good, full
of vitamins, I have these every day.

Hi, Tim, mate.

How are you doing?

Jack has a routine catch up
with Tim Scott,

a former British Army soldier.

Together they've created
a web page, Liberty Defenders.

Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

I'm interested, Tim -

is now a difficult time to be
a white working-class man?

Yes. Yes, completely.

And why is that?

We feel oppressed, in jobs
that we could have gone into,

but we can't necessarily, or we try
and we just get knocked back,

just because we are not
a certain group.

I find that that's not freedom,
at all.

Because of the quota system,
Tim is a 100% white fella

and he has been subjected to racism.

I'm 75% white and I've been
subjected to racism.

A quick example, I was chatting
with a professor about

this trip I wanted to take
to Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

This is a 19th-century train
they use to kind of escort tourists

up to the top of the mountain.

And they have actors play
kind of cowboys and bandits.

But one of the students behind me
was black,

she started to laugh,
started to snicker.

I turned around and said,
"What's your problem?"

She started to call me
abusive names,

and I told her to eff herself.

And she said, "Eff you,
white trash," she said.

White trash.
And I was like...

And I called her a ghetto bird
in response.

You know, and...

That's the sort of hatred, racial
hatred that they feel towards us.

She probably wanted to go to
the hip-hop nightclub on vacation.

For me, I wanted to see
the American West.

And for her, that was...

Why did she want to go
to a hip-hop nightclub?

Well, because that's probably
what she probably wanted,

I'll be honest with you.

So she insulted me
and then she was... Why?

I think it just makes her
good-humoured, you know.

Don't show off now
just because Tim's here.

I'm not showing off.
You're getting overexcited.

You're a bad influence.

White male pack mentality.

She said white male pack mentality.

Would we be allowed to say
black male pack mentality?

No. Not in mainstream, no.

We are not in mainstream, Tim!

If I said a pack of black males,

I could probably get arrested
for that.

I said pack mentality.

No, we can go back and review it,

but I'm pretty sure you said
pack of white males.

And if I had said when blacks get
together, they become aggressive,

become hypersexual, criminalistic,
if I said a pack of...

No, I think you've, I think you've
added some meaning to that.

When you think of packs,
you think of wolves.

Could I say packs of feral blacks?

Whereas you can say
a pack of white males.

Do you think that's because
there's a connotation

about being nationalist,
there's a racist connotation,

and that being a liberal,
there isn't a racist connotation?

But there is to nationalists.

We see the left wing as racist
and hateful, anti-male

and anti-heterosexual, anti-white.

I see you as a racist.

Yeah, I mean, if you come away
from a day with Jack Sen

and he is calling you racist,
you've got to worry

about what you're doing.

If he said you have said
something offensive.

Boy, oh, boy!

My week with Jack is almost over.

So we're getting ready
for a publicity photograph.

But first, Jack is recording
a radio show with Nick Griffin,

a former BNP member
of the European Parliament

and big beast of
the British far right.

Nick Griffin, Nazi scum!
Nick Griffin, Nazi scum!

Chicken curry, we've got
the recipe, now eff off!

Nick Griffin is a regular guest

on Jack's internet clips
and his radio shows.

You're listening to Resistance
Radio, with your host, Jack Sen.

So, with Resistance Radio, I started
the channel a year ago.

And Nick, kindly, has basically
volunteered his time

to help me record programmes.

Hi, Nick.
Yes, Jack.

How are things with you?
OK, thank you very much.

This is Alice, hello.
Hello there.

I think my goal in all
of this is to demonstrate

that it's not OK to be anti-white.

Is that a new thing?
What's the new thing?

The anti-white thing.

Well, it's something that's
been orchestrated by the far left

and the establishment
has allowed it to happen.

I mean, like when Tim and I
were on Skype, and you said

pack of white males, I pointed out
that that would be considered racist

if you'd said pack of
any other sort of males.

If I said a pack of blacks or
a pack of Jews, it would be rightly

regarded as being racist, so...
Well, Nick, I think...

But it's OK when you're doing
it to whites?

That's precisely what I said
to Alice, is that you can't see

that it's racist is the problem.

The connotations surrounding pack
is animals - dogs, wolves,

long teeth, fangs, saliva, blood.

You've made a lot of
inferences there.

You've read a lot into what,
let's be honest before...

What does pack mean?
Group, clan, family.

No, it doesn't, come on,
it's a pejorative aspect of a group.

It's a pejorative.

It is, a pejorative, you know.

You know perfectly well it is,

so, you switch off
because you're so indoctrinated,

you can't see your own bigotry
and now you try and cover it up.

Nick, hi, you weren't there,
so I'd love you to hear

the conversation, but just before
the phone call connected,

we were talking about humour.

And it was exceptionally ironic
and I know you didn't pick up

on the irony, I'm sorry
you didn't. I can't, no.

But it was a joke,
like you've been making jokes.

If I had said a pack of black males,
would you think it was funny?

I'd think it was
completely different.

How is it different?!

Because we've talked about
how it's different.

It's not different! We've talked
about how it's different.

And also if you said it with venom,
it was also be different,

so you've got to take all of
these contacts into account.

If I'd said to you... Let me finish
like I let you finish,

because I know you get upset
when you don't have the floor,

but the thing is, we have to take
all of this into account,

and I'm really sorry this has got
so heated so quickly,

because this is just supposed
to be a chat, I'm supposed

to be learning about you,

and if that is what you want
to focus on, if that is how you want

to use the time, that's fine,
but I feel like we've talked

about that and I feel like...

We don't want to focus on this,
I'd actually like to talk about,

I already indicated, the dangers
of World War III.

And you're the one who said
you want to talk about this

race thing, you want to talk
about this pack thing,

you're the one who brought this
back to that. No, I didn't.

Obsessed with race,
totally obsessed.

You brought it up, I didn't
bring it up. Alice, you did.

I'm very, very busy all over
social media, doing my little bit

to try and stop World War III
and I haven't got time to talk

with idiots about race. Simples.

Am I the idiot, sorry?

Yeah, absolutely, I'm afraid.

You can't help it, it's the way
you've been brought up.

Well, if you don't have time,
we'll just thank you for your time,

thank you so much.
Just one second.

There's a knock at your door.
Yeah, I know.

Maybe just have a seat over
there for a few minutes

while we prepare for...
Alice. Hiya.

I'm so relieved
to see the photographer.

We've got to go take some photos
now, Nick,

but thank you so much
for your time.

Nick, I really thank you,
thanks for your patience and thanks

for ringing, I do appreciate it.
Bye. Bye, Nick, bye-bye.

Oh! He called me an idiot! That's
not very polite, I really think

that's not a great way to get
the message across, number one,

I don't think that's a great
political strategy,

but I also don't think that it's...
He was an MEP, so he knows politics.

He was an MEP, he got elected,
you have not and you would never be
elected, he has been elected.

I think he knows the strategy
better than you do.

I know broadcasting and I know
that it's not a great way

to get your message across
if you just name-hurl.

He's not a broadcaster,
he's a politician.

What you said was idiotic,
at the end of the day.

You wanted to bring race
into it immediately

and then I pointed out...

You interrupted me, excuse me.

You brought race into it, don't
interrupt me. Don't interrupt me.

You're not going to steamroll me,
no. Can I respond?

Are you going to address my point

or are you just going to go
into a monologue?

I mentioned anti-white, perhaps,
that's true.

However, I'm not going to be
lectured by you, I'm sorry,

I know a lot more than you do
about politics.

I know a lot more about life
than you do as well.

I'm sorry, I do, I mean,
just from our conversation,

vocabulary wise, I think we both
can agree, you said yourself

you can never beat me
in an argument, that comes

down to lots of factors.
I could never beat you in a debate,

but I think I could conduct
a better conversation.

I don't think so.
You do a better monologue, for sure.

You're condescending, I'm not.

I'm married and I have a healthy,
happy marriage and I have a child.

You do not, so don't lecture me
on that. You don't know if I do.

I've said over and again.
Again, condescending.

To be honest with you, you're
slightly obnoxious as a human being,

that's all I'll say,
you're obnoxious.

I guess I was being...

You can't help it, because you're
on the left. You're the extremist.

I'm sleeping in the same house
with an extremist,

although you believe you are.

Racist. Sexist.

Sorry.

Well, let's take some photos
and then we can wrap

this up as quickly as possible.
Good, that sounds good.

I put on a special blazer for this,
come on, let's get this done.

Am I overdressed for this,
with the blazer, do you think,

or not really?

Is that what you normally wear?

I thought for this we were going
to dress up, it's fine.

Does that mean I'm underdressed?

It's so uncomfortable, isn't it?

This is one of the most
uncomfortable moments of my life.

Oh, give me a break.

You must have had a very
sheltered existence.

Try being spat at by Labour
politicians in the central square

in Ormskirk and being told
that they're going to kill you.

You win.

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