Scenes of a Crime (2011) - full transcript

MASON: ADRIAN, ARE YOU TELLING ME

THAT SHE WOKE YOU UP IN A PANIC?

THOMAS: WHAT?

MASON: AND HE WAS HAVING A PROBLEM BREATHING?

AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT THAT'S--

THAT'S THE 100% TRUTH RIGHT THERE.

THOMAS: I SWEAR TO GOD.

MASON: SO WHY ARE THE DOCTORS TELLING ME

THAT THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN?

COLINARY: CAN I TALK TO YOU FOR A SECOND?

MASON: YEAH. IN HERE, OR...?



COLINARY: SORRY. YOU ALL SET?

MASON: SERGEANT COLINARY.

COLINARY: HI. HOW YOU DOING?

- HOW YOU DOING? - GOOD.

I WAS, UH...

YOU EVER HEAR OF DESERT STORM BACK IN THE DAY?

IT WAS A WAR.

WHEN IRAQ INVADED KUWAIT, I WAS A CORPSMAN THERE.

THOMAS: OH, OKAY.

COLINARY: ATTACHED TO A UNIT WITH THE MARINES.

I SAW A LOT OF HEAD INJURIES DURING THAT TIME.

I WENT DOWN TO THE HOSPITAL TODAY

AND TOOK A LOOK AT THE BABY.

I READ THE STATEMENT FROM LAST NIGHT THAT YOU GAVE.



IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, AND I'M TELLING YOU NOW,

AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. I THINK HE'S A LIAR.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T--I DIDN'T DO NOTHING, I SWEAR TO GOD.

COLINARY: DON'T YOU LOOK AT HIM. I'M TELLING YOU.

I THINK YOU'RE A LIAR,

AND YOU GOT TO PROVE IT TO ME.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T DO NOTHING.

I DIDN'T DO NOTHING TO THE BABY.

COLINARY: SOMETHING HAPPENED, ALL RIGHT?

AND THE INJURIES ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH YOUR STORY.

YOU TOOK THAT BABY AND YOU SLAMMED HIS HEAD.

[LOUD THUD]

MASON: BECAUSE WE ARE THE POLICE,

AND WE'RE TALKING TO YOU ABOUT A SERIOUS INCIDENT...

THOMAS: YEAH.

MASON: YOU ARE NOT UNDER ARREST,

BUT WE DO HAVE TO LET YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR RIGHTS ARE, ALL RIGHT?

IT'S JUST THE LAW.

YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING, AND YOU GOT RIGHTS.

YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT.

YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

THOMAS: YEAH. MASON: OKAY.

ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN AND WILL BE USED AGAINST YOU IN COURT.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

THOMAS: WHAT'S IT MEAN BY THAT?

MASON: IT MEANS THAT IF YOU TELL US

THAT YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG,

THEN WE CAN USE THAT AGAINST YOU IN COURT.

- OH. - ALL RIGHT?

SO IF WHILE WE'RE TALKING, YOU SAY THAT,

"I ROBBED A LIQUOR STORE LAST NIGHT,"

WELL, THEN WE CAN USE THAT AGAINST YOU, ALL RIGHT?

WE HONESTLY HAD NO IDEA IF THIS WAS AN ACCIDENT

OR OF IT WAS INTENTIONAL,

BUT IF IT TURNED OUT THAT IT WAS INTENTIONAL,

WE DIDN'T WANT THAT INFORMATION TO COME OUT

AND NOT HAVE IT ON VIDEO.

FOUNTAIN: WE ACTUALLY CALLED OUR CHIEF OF DETECTIVES,

AND THE CHIEF SAYS,

"WELL, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TALK TO HIM,

"I'D LIKE YOU'S TO BRING HIM DOWN TO THE STATION

AND TALK TO HIM ON VIDEO."

INTERROGATIONS SHOULD BE CONDUCTED

IN A NON-SUPPORTIVE ENVIRONMENT.

WE WANT TO GET THE PERSON ONTO OUR TERRITORY

AWAY FROM HIS OR HER OWN SURROUNDINGS.

THE INTERROGATION ROOM SHOULD BE QUIET, PRIVATE,

FREE OF ANY OUTSIDE DISTRACTIONS OR NOISES,

AND WHEN WE SET UP THE ROOM,

WE WANT TO HAVE THE TWO CHAIRS FACING EACH OTHER

ABOUT 4 1/2 TO 5 FEET APART.

THE ROOM IS A 9 x 5 SHELL.

IT'S GOT A DESK IN IT,

AND IT'S GOT A LITTLE FILING CASE

THAT HAS SOME GENERAL FORMS IN IT,

SOME DEPOSITIONS IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO SIGN A STATEMENT,

AND THE CAMERA'S TINY LITTLE PLASTIC BULB

UP IN THE LEFT-HAND CORNER,

AND THERE'S A LITTLE TINY ANTENNA

STICKING OUT OF THE CEILING. THAT'S THE RECEIVER.

AND YOU WOULD NOT KNOW IT'S THERE

UNLESS WE TOLD YOU IT'S THERE.

MASON: WHERE'D YOU GROW UP?

THOMAS: I'M FROM THE SOUTH.

MASON: GEORGIA? THOMAS: YEAH.

FROM THE SOUTH.

FOUNTAIN: I HAD NEVER USED IT BEFORE,

NEITHER HAD SERGEANT MASON.

WE WERE STILL A LITTLE RELUCTANT,

BUT WHEN WE STARTED THIS INTERVIEW,

I THINK WITHIN A FEW MINUTES,

WE JUST FORGOT ABOUT THE CAMERA.

[FOUNTAIN LAUGHS, SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY]

I'M LIKE, "YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME."

MASON: YOU PLAY FOOTBALL IN HIGH SCHOOL?

THOMAS: YEAH, MIDDLE SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL.

MASON: WHAT POSITION DID YOU PLAY?

THOMAS: DEFENSIVE LINEMAN.

FOUNTAIN: HE TOLD US HE'D JUST GOTTEN DONE

GETTING A TRUCKER'S LICENSE,

AND HOW HE REALLY HASN'T WORKED IN QUITE A WHILE,

BUT HE DID GO TO THE SCHOOL,

AND NOW HE'S JUST GO TO FIND A JOB

WHERE HE CAN START DRIVING.

FOUNTAIN: NOW, WHEN'D YOU GET YOUR LICENSE?

THOMAS: I GOT MY LICENSE, UH...

I'M NOT SURE, UM, LIKE, MONTH AND A HALF AGO.

YEAH, LIKE, A MONTH AND A HALF AGO,

AND I BEEN, YOU KNOW, LOOKING FOR JOBS, YOU KNOW,

LOCAL JOBS, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE MY WIFE...

FOUNTAIN: WE BOTH KNEW THAT-- THE BASIC START,

YOU WANT TO DO A LITTLE RAPPORT-BUILDING,

UNLESS IT'S SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO JUST COME IN

AND SPILL THEIR GUTS TO YOU.

WE WOULD ACTUALLY ASK HIM ABOUT THE CHILDREN

AND ABOUT THE TWINS

AND HOW THEY WERE BEING RAISED

AND HOW THEY SLEPT AT NIGHT AND THAT KIND OF THING,

AND HE WAS VERY COLD

WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT HIS CHILDREN.

HE REALLY DIDN'T MENTION THE NAMES.

"WELL, MY SON."

HE NEVER SAID IT WAS MATTHEW OR MALACHI.

HE NEVER WOULD BRING UP THE BOYS' NAMES.

THOMAS: YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST THAT, OH, THE BABY--

BABY WAS RUNNING A FEVER-- SLIGHT FEVER,

AND I SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW,"

I SAID, "COULD IT BE SOMETHING SERIOUS?"

SHE SAID, "WELL, I DON'T KNOW YET.

IT MIGHT JUST BE A 24-HOUR BUG."

FOUNTAIN: WE KNEW THAT THERE WAS AN INJURY TO A CHILD,

AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT OCCURRED,

BUT WE ALSO KNEW THERE WERE 6 OTHER CHILDREN,

AND WE DIDN'T WANT ANYTHING TO HAPPEN TO THEM, EITHER.

AND A LOT OF THESE CHILDREN WEREN'T EASILY,

YOU KNOW, "HEY, SIT DOWN AND PLAY WITH THE TOYS,

AND I'LL BE BACK IN 5 MINUTES."

THEY WERE VERY RAMBUNCTIOUS,

SO CHILD PROTECTIVE DECIDED THAT THEY WERE

GOING TO TAKE THEM CHILDREN.

MASON: PART OF OUR ROLE WAS TO STAND BY

WHILE THEY REMOVED THE 6 CHILDREN FROM THE HOME

TO MAKE SURE THERE WERE NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT,

AND WE ALSO WANTED TO TALK TO ADRIAN

ABOUT WHAT--WHAT HAPPENED TO MATTHEW.

WHEN WE ARRIVED TO THE HOUSE, IT WAS VERY QUIET,

UH, DARK, COUPLE OF THE KIDS WERE ACTUALLY SLEEPING,

AND, UH, THERE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE

MUCH MUCH CONCERN FOR WHAT HAD HAPPENED EARLIER IN THE DAY.

FOUNTAIN: ADRIAN WAS LAID BACK.

HE SPOKE TO US LIKE HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH IT,

BUT ADRIAN, STILL, IT WAS LIKE

HE HAD TO SIT IN THE KING'S CHAIR.

YOU KNOW, "ADRIAN, LET'S SIT DOWN AND TALK,"

AND ADRIAN WENT RIGHT TO THE SPECIFIC CHAIR,

THE ONLY CHAIR THAT HE WOULD SIT IN,

FROM WHAT WE FOUND OUT LATER,

AND HE WOULD BE THE VOICE THERE.

HE WAS THE MAN OF THE HOUSE.

THIS IS WHAT HE DID,

AND HE WAS SERVED AS THE MAN OF THE HOUSE

IN THAT CHAIR.

WE ASKED HIM IF HE WAS PLANNING TO GO ANYWHERE.

AT NO TIME DID WE TELL HIM

HE HAD TO STAY AT THAT HOUSE.

WE DIDN'T TELL HIM THAT HE COULDN'T LEAVE.

HE COULD HAVE DONE WHATEVER HE WANTED TO.

HE COULD HAVE HOPPED ON A BUS 5 MINUTES LATER

AND BEEN DOWN TO FLORIDA IN A DAY OR TWO,

AND WE WOULD HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM AGAIN.

MASON: WE WENT OVER TO ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER

TO SPEAK TO THE DOCTOR THERE

ABOUT THE CONDITION OF MATTHEW THOMAS,

AND WE ALSO WANTED TO INTERVIEW

WILHAMENA HICKS, THE MOTHER OF MATTHEW.

I BELIEVE THE FIRST PERSON WE SPOKE TO

OF SOME AUTHORITY IN THE...

IT'S THE PEDIATRIC INTENSIVE CARE UNIT,

WAS A DR. EDGE.

MASON: DR. EDGE WAS WALKING DOWN THE HALLWAY,

AND RON ASKED HIM A COUPLE QUESTIONS.

I KIND OF CORNERED HIM, BECAUSE I'D BEEN THERE

20 MINUTES TRYING TO GET IN SOMEBODY'S FACE.

HE SAID, "YOU GOT UNTIL I GET TO THAT DOOR.

"I HAVEN'T SLEPT IN TWO DAYS,

AND WHEN I GET TO THAT DOOR, I'M DONE TALKING TO YOU."

I ASKED HIM WHAT HAPPENED, AND HIS WORDS TO ME WERE

THAT SOMEBODY MURDERED THIS CHILD.

THIS CHILD WAS GOING TO DIE.

SOMEBODY KILLED THIS CHILD.

MASON: DR. EDGE EXPLAINED TO US

THAT THIS INJURY WAS A, UH...

A HIGH-IMPACT INJURY SIMILAR TO A...

A MOTOR VEHICLE CRASHING AT 60 MILES PER HOUR.

SO THEN HE OUT HIS HAND OUT AND HE SAID IT'S LIKE THIS...

AND IT'S A VERY HARD HITTING, QUICK STOPPAGE.

HE SAID, "IT DOESN'T HAPPEN FROM FALLING DOWN.

"IT DOESN'T HAPPEN FROM GETTING WHACKED IN THE HEAD

"WITH A METAL FIRE TRUCK THAT THEY HAVE IN THE LIVING ROOM.

"THIS HAPPENS FROM SOMEBODY TAKING SOMEBODY

"AND SLAMMING THEM INTO SOMETHING

VERY FAST AND VERY HARD."

ME AND ADAM LOOKED AT EACH OTHER,

AND WE SAID, "OKAY, WELL, IT'S ONE OF TWO PEOPLE

WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS IN THIS HOUSE."

MASON: LET'S GO BACK TO WHERE YOU GUYS WERE LAYING DOWN,

BABIES WERE LAYING DOWN,

SHE TOLD YOU THAT HIS FEVER WENT BACK DOWN,

SO NOW YOU KNOW IT'S SAFE TO GO TO SLEEP.

THOMAS: YEAH, IT WAS SAFE-- SAFE TO GO TO SLEEP.

MASON: SO YOU GO TO SLEEP, 3:00, 4:00 IN THE MORNING,

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?

THOMAS: I'M BEING WOKEN UP.

"ADRIAN, ADRIAN, WAKE UP!

THE BABY'S NOT MOVING! HE'S NOT BREATHING!"

HE SHOWED, LIKE, NO REMORSE IN THIS CHILD BEING SICK.

HE DIDN'T GET THE FACT THAT THE CHILD WAS THAT SICK

THAT HE WAS PROBABLY GOING TO DIE AT THIS TIME.

THOMAS: I WAS--I WOKE UP IN A PANIC,

BECAUSE MY WIFE WOKE ME UP PANICKED.

"SOMETHING'S WRONG. COME ON, ADRIAN, GET UP, GET UP!"

AND I GOT UP.

I WAS JUST, "OH, YEAH, I'LL CHECK."

SHE SAID, "CHECK HIM, CHECK HIM, CHECK HIM!"

YOU KNOW, I SAID-- I SAID, "OKAY,

"WELL, LET ME PUT SOME WATER ON HIM,

SEE HOW HE RESPONDS TO THIS, YOU KNOW."

AND I WAS, YOU KNOW, PUTTING IT ON LIKE THAT,

AND HE DIDN'T WAKE UP.

I MEAN, LIKE, HE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, WAAH OR NOTHING

LIKE A NORMAL BABY WOULD.

AND, UH, I SAID, "WELL, LET ME CALL--

"LET ME CALL THE AMBULANCE.

"LET ME CALL 911.

"WHILE YOU TALK TO THE OPERATOR,

I'LL BE CHECKING HIS PULSE."

YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT I DID, AND SHE WAS TALKING...

HE DIDN'T REALLY SEEM LIKE, UH,

HIS--HIS SON WAS... WAS IN THE HOSPITAL

ON THE VERGE OF DYING.

IT DIDN'T REALLY SEEM LIKE, UH...

LIKE HE WAS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

FOUNTAIN: WE STARTED TO THINK

THAT ADRIAN THOMAS HAD DONE SOMETHING TO THIS CHILD.

IT WAS DEFINITELY IN-- OUR MAIN FOCUS.

FOUNTAIN: IT'S REALLY BAD FOR YOUR SON.

MASON: THAT'S WHAT THE DOCTOR SAYS.

THOMAS: I SWEAR TO GOD, MAN.

I WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO--

MASON: THE DOCTOR SAID IT WASN'T A KID.

THE DOCTOR SAID IT WASN'T A FALL.

THOMAS: NO, I--I NEVER SAID...

BUCKLEY: WE OFFER TO THE SUSPECT

PSYCHOLOGICAL JUSTIFICATION FOR THE COMMISSION OF THE CRIME.

WE DON'T LEGALLY JUSTIFY IT,

BUT WE OFFER HIM A MORAL EXCUSE

THAT WILL MINIMIZE OR JUSTIFY IN HIS OWN MIND

COMMITTING THE CRIME,

AND THIS SHOULD BE DONE IN A MONOLOGUE FORMAT.

ACTOR AS COP: AND YOU KNOW WHEN PEOPLE GET ANGRY,

THEY DO THINGS THAT THEY WOULD NEVER DO.

MASON: IT WOULD BE EASY FOR SOMEBODY YOUR SIZE

TO HURT A BABY AND NOT REALIZE IT OR NOT MEAN IT.

THOMAS: BUT WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

MASON: YOUR WIFE'S A BIG WOMAN.

IT WOULD BE EASY FOR HER TO--

THOMAS: YEAH, BUT WHY WOULD I DO THAT, THOUGH?

MASON: I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD DO IT ON PURPOSE.

I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD HURT A BABY IN PURPOSE.

THOMAS: NO!

MASON: WHO WOULD HURT A BABY ON PURPOSE?

THOMAS: THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, THOUGH.

MASON: YEAH, I DIDN'T SAY YOU DID IT ON PURPOSE.

I DIDN'T SAY ANYBODY DID IT IN PURPOSE.

THIS WAS A ACCIDENT.

WHEN WE'RE SPEAKING TO YOU, WE'RE, OF COURSE, LYING.

WE WANT YOU TO TELL US THE TRUTH,

SO WE'RE GOING TO SAY ANYTHING WE CAN

TO GET YOU TO TELL US THE TRUTH,

AND THAT BEING WE GIVE YOU YOUR--

I CALL THEM THE OUTS. HERE'S YOUR OUT.

COULD IT HAVE HAPPENED THAT YOU DROPPED THE BABY,

AND THE BABY'S HEAD HIT THE BACK OF THE CRIB?

IF YOU WALKED IN HALF-ASLEEP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT

AT 4:00 A.M. GRABBING A BOTTLE.

WE WERE SAYING, "ANYBODY COULD HAVE DONE THAT."

ADRIAN WOULD SAY, "WELL, THAT KIND OF LOOKS INTENTIONAL,"

AND WE WERE TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT,

"NO, THAT WOULDN'T BE INTENTIONAL.

"THAT'S WHAT A FATHER OF 6 PEOPLE COULD HAVE DONE

BECAUSE HE'S EXHAUSTED."

FOUNTAIN: HAVE YOU NOT BEEN THERE HALF-ASLEEP WITH THIS--

LIKE THIS WITH A BABY?

THOMAS: I HAVE BEFORE, I AIN'T GONNA LIE.

FOUNTAIN: ABSOLUTELY.

THOMAS: BUT WHAT I'M SAYING, I'M NOT GOING TO DROP--

I NEVER DROPPED NO BABY.

I WOULD KNOW IF I DROPPED A BABY.

I WOULD KNOW IF I DROPPED A BABY.

MASON: WHAT ABOUT WALKING AROUND IN YOUR ARM LIKE THIS?

THOMAS: I NEVER WALKED WITH A BABY LIKE THAT IN MY ARM

LIKE A FOOTBALL.

FOUNTAIN: TELL US WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS.

GIVE ME A LIST.

WHO DO YOU THINK IN YOUR HEAD COULD HAVE DONE THIS?

WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS IN YOUR HOUSE TO THAT CHILD?

IF THERE'S SOMEBODY WE'RE MISSING,

WE WANT TO GO TALK TO THEM.

TELL ME. WHO COULD HAVE?

THOMAS: I DIDN'T--OH.

FOUNTAIN: WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS?

I'M GOING TO WRITE IT DOWN. WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS?

YOU TELL ME.

IF SOMEBODY ELSE WAS THERE WHEN HE FELL TO THE FLOOR

AND THEY PUT HIM RIGHT BACK UP,

BECAUSE YOU TURNED YOUR HEAD,

OR YOU WERE IN THE BATHROOM,

OR YOU WERE IN THE BEDROOM FEEDING THE OTHER BABY,

OR YOU WERE CHANGING ONE OF THE OTHER DIAPERS.

THOMAS: BUT ONE OF MY OTHER DAUGHTERS WOULD HAVE TOLD ME.

MAYBE ONE OF MY KIDS WENT IN THERE,

HIT HIM WITH A TOY WHEN I WAS IN THE BATHROOM.

WHEN I CAME OUT, HE WAS CRYING.

I WANTED TO SEE ABOUT IT.

I DON'T KNOW-- I DIDN'T SEE NO BRUISES.

I SWEAR TO GOD, I DIDN'T SEE NO LUMPS,

NO--NO MARKS, NO NOTHING.

FOUNTAIN: RIGHT.

MASON: BUT WE NEED TO-- WE NEED TO KEEP TAKING STEPS

AND FIGURE OUT HOW THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED IN YOUR CARE.

BECAUSE AS FAR AS YOUR OTHER SON

HITTING MATTHEW IN THE HEAD WITH A TRUCK--

THOMAS: NO, BUT I-- I KNOW--

MASON: THE DOCTOR SAID THAT THAT COULDN'T BE WHAT HAPPENED.

THOMAS: YEAH, WELL, I COULD HAVE BUMPED HIM IN THE--

GOING INTO THE CRIB, NO LIE.

COULD HAVE BUMPED HIM, BUT IT WAS NEVER OUT OF--

NEVER OUT OF ANGER.

FOUNTAIN: YEAH. FROM LACK OF SLEEP.

THOMAS: YOU KNOW. YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID,

COULD HAVE BEEN BUMPED HIM IN THE CRIB.

I AIN'T GOING TO LIE,

BUT IT WAS NEVER OUT OF--

YOU KNOW, LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT I--

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?

MASON: WHAT YOU JUST DID THERE,

THAT WOULD SNAP THE BABY'S NECK.

THOMAS: THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

FOUNTAIN: YOU WOULD HAVE THROWN THE BABY THROUGH THE CRIB.

THOMAS: YES, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

IT WAS NEVER-- NOTHING INTENTION, YOU KNOW?

MASON: OF COURSE NOT.

MASON: I WASN'T CERTAIN THAT WHAT HE HAD TOLD ME

TO THAT POINT HAD CAUSED THE INJURY,

AND I WASN'T CERTAIN THAT I WAS GOING

TO EVEN GET THAT INFORMATION AT THAT POINT.

MASON: WE WANT TO TALK TO YOU AGAIN TOMORROW

AND JUST SEE IF WE CAN TRY TO JAR ANY MEMORIES

OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT OF SOMETHING ELSE.

IS THAT ALL RIGHT?

WE TALK TO YOU AGAIN TOMORROW?

THOMAS: YEAH. YEAH, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT TOMORROW, TOO.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I AIN'T...

ABOUT TO SKIP TOWN OR NOTHING. I'M NOT--

MASON: I HOPE YOU AIN'T.

WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IF YOU GOT FAMILY HERE?

THOMAS: YEAH, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS

I--I DIDN'T DO NOTHING WRONG, I DON'T BELIEVE.

MASON: I DON'T THINK YOU DID ANYTHING WRONG, EITHER.

[CONVERSATION CONTINUES INDISTINCTLY]

MASON: WE WERE BOTH EXHAUSTED.

WE HAD NOTHING LEFT. OUT OF GAS.

FOUNTAIN: WE JUST WANTED TO GET SOMETHING ON PAPER,

SO WHAT THAT DID WAS LOCK HIM IN TO,

"THIS IS THE WAY IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED."

NORMALLY WHEN WE TAKE A STATEMENT FROM SOMEBODY,

WE WRITE THE STATEMENTS,

AND THEN WE'LL HAVE THEM READ THEM OVER

AND SIGN THE STATEMENT,

AND IT'S JUST BEEN OUR CUSTOM TO DO THAT.

IF SOMEBODY ASKS IF THEY COULD WRITE THEIR OWN STATEMENT,

THERE WOULD NEVER BE AN OBJECTION TO IT

JUST SOME PEOPLE DON'T SPELL AS WELL AS OTHER PEOPLE,

SOME PEOPLE DON'T, YOU KNOW...

KNOW WHERE TO PUT THE PROPER PUNCTUATION.

FOUNTAIN: HERE'S WHAT I WANT YOU TO READ.

CAN YOU READ ALL RIGHT?

THOMAS: YEAH.

FOUNTAIN: I JUST WANT YOU TO READ THIS OVER QUICK.

THIS IS JUST A SYNOPSIS OF WHAT YOU JUST TOLD US

COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO YOUR SON.

IF IT'S ALL RIGHT WITH YOU,

I'D LIKE YOU TO SIGN IT THAT THAT'S WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED

WHILE THE SON WAS IN YOUR CARE.

I'M NOT BLAMING YOU--

AND NONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES

HELD WATER TO WHAT THE DOCTOR--

DR. EDGE SAID AT ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER.

FOUNTAIN: IF YOU JUST ON LINE--

IF YOU--IF YOU-- LET ME DRAW A LINE.

ALL RIGHT, I'LL DRAW THE LINE,

AND THEN YOU PUT YOUR INITIALS THERE,

SO YOU KNOW I DIDN'T WRITE ANYTHING AFTER YOU LEFT.

THAT WAY YOU CAN'T SAY THAT ANYTHING WAS ADDED

AFTER IT WAS DONE.

[WATER LAPPING]

[LEAVES RUSTLING]

MASON: I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU FELT.

YOU AIN'T WORKED SINCE, WHAT, FEBRUARY?

SITTING IN THE HOUSE EVERY DAY SINCE FEBRUARY

WITH 7 KIDS, WIFE PROBABLY TELLING YOU,

"WHY AIN'T YOU GOT A JOB YET?

WHY AIN'T YOU GOT A JOB YET?"

YOU ARE SO CLOSE, MAN.

YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO MAKING THIS RIGHT.

IT'S RIGHT HERE IN THE FRONT OF YOUR HEAD,

AND YOU WANT THIS TO COME OUT.

YOU WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

WHAT'S HOLDING YOU BACK, ADRIAN?

THOMAS: NO, I TOLD-- MASON: WHAT'S HOLDING YOU BACK?

YOU THINK YOU'RE GETTING IN TROUBLE FOR THIS?

MAYBE YOU AIN'T LYING, BUT YOU'RE REPRESSING--

YOU'RE REPRESSING THOSE MEMORIES.

NOBODY WANTS TO REMEMBER HARMING THEIR OWN KID, MAN.

IF I HARMED MY KID, I WOULD REPRESS THAT MEMORY, TOO,

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

ULTIMATELY, YOU GOT TO BE A MAN,

AND THIS--THIS HAS GOT TO COME OUT.

MATTER OF FACT, WHEN IT GETS TO THE POINT

WHERE I THINK YOU'RE TELLING ME 100% OF THE TRUTH,

I'M GOING TO ADMIRE YOU FOR THAT.

I'M GOING TO LOOK AT YOU LIKE YOU'RE A GOOD MAN.

ACCORDING TO THE DOCTORS,

IT'S REALLY NOT POSSIBLE THAT HE'S WHEEZING

AND HAVING TROUBLE BREATHING

AND THEN HE FALLS ASLEEP,

THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE'S BREATHING NORMALLY.

HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STILL HAVE TROUBLE BREATHING,

AND YOU WOULD HAVE NOTICED THAT

HE WOULD STILL HAVE TROUBLE BREATHING.

MAYBE YOU DIDN'T THINK IT WAS SEVERE ENOUGH

TO CALL THE AMBULANCE,

BUT YOU STILL WOULD HAVE NOTICED THE DIFFERENCE.

I'M A MAN OF MY WORD. I'M NOT A LIAR.

THOMAS: BUT I DIDN'T--

MASON: WHEN I TOLD YOU I'M NOT GOING TO ARREST YOU TONIGHT,

I'M HOLDING THAT.

I'M NOT GOING TO ARREST YOU TONIGHT, ALL RIGHT?

YOU ADMITTED--YOU ADMITTED

TO SOME STUFF TONIGHT, ALL RIGHT?

THOMAS: NO. NO, I DIDN'T.

MASON: THAT IF I WANTED TO ARREST YOU ON, I COULD.

I DON'T WANT TO ARREST YOU ON THIS.

I WANT YOU TO GET HELP.

MASON: ALL DETECTIVES HAVE DIFFERENT STRENGTHS,

AND, UH, SOME--SOME PEOPLE,

THEY WANT TO INTERVIEW SOMEONE,

BUT AN HOUR AND A HALF INTO IT,

THEY'RE--THEY'RE DONE,

AND THEIR MIND JUST ISN'T IN THE GAME ANYMORE.

UM, I'M ACTUALLY SOMEONE WHO--

I CAN INTERVIEW SOMEONE FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS.

MASON: YOU ALREADY ADMITTED

THAT YOU HAD CAUSED THESE INJURIES.

ADRIAN, DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT CAUSE THE INJURIES?

THOMAS: I--I DID.

MASON: YOU DID CAUSE THE INJURIES, ALL RIGHT?

THOMAS: I CAUSED THEM.

MASON: DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT MEAN--

DID YOU MEAN TO CAUSE THE INJURIES?

THOMAS: NO. MASON: ALL RIGHT.

SO WHEN YOU DROPPED THE BABY IN THE CRIB,

WAS IT INTENTIONAL? IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

THOMAS: IT WAS A ACCIDENT.

MASON: WHEN YOU THREW THE BABY ON THE BED SATURDAY NIGHT,

WAS IT INTENTIONAL, OR WAS IT AN ACCIDENT?

THOMAS: IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

MASON: SO YOU THREW THE BABY ON THE BED SATURDAY NIGHT.

THOMAS: YES, BUT I--

MASON: WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME THAT THEN?

THOMAS: 'CAUSE, MAN--

MASON: LOOK IT, ADRIAN, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE

A RELATIONSHIP HERE.

I PUT MY ASS ON THE LINE FOR YOU,

AND YOU'RE LYING TO ME, MAN!

YOU'RE LYING TO ME!

THOMAS: YOU SAID IT'S INTENTIONAL.

MASON: HERE.

HOLD THAT LIKE YOU HOLD THE BABY.

TURN AROUND, LOOK AT ME.

NOW, HERE'S THE BED RIGHT HERE.

START THINKING ABOUT THEM KIDS

CRYING ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT IN YOUR EAR,

YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW NAGGING YOU

AND YOUR WIFE CALLING YOU A LOSER, ALL RIGHT?

AND LET THAT AGGRESSION BUILD UP,

AND SHOW ME HOW YOU THREW MATTHEW ON YOUR BED, ALL RIGHT?

DON'T TRY TO SUGARCOAT IT

AND MAKE IT LIKE IT WASN'T THAT BAD.

SHOW ME HOW HARD YOU THREW HIM ON THAT BED.

THAT'S HOW YOU DID IT?

THOMAS: IT WAS NEVER-- IT WAS NEVER INTENTIONAL.

MASON: ALL 3 TIMES YOU DID IT JUST LIKE THAT?

THOMAS: YES.

WE NOW HAVE THE FIRST ADMISSION OF GUILT,

BUT WE NEED TO DEVELOP THOSE DETAILS.

THE FIRST THING WE WANT TO SAY

IS A STATEMENT OF REINFORCEMENT TO THE SUSPECT

TO BASICALLY CONGRATULATE HIM ON CONFESSING.

MASON: I'M GOING TO TRY TO FIND YOU SOME CIGARETTES.

YOU WANT A SODA OR A BAG OF CHIPS OR SOMETHING?

DETECTIVE: YOU NEED TO GO TO THE BATHROOM?

THOMAS: JUST A CIGARETTE.

DETECTIVE: YOU NEED A BATHROOM BREAK?

THOMAS: NO, NOT RIGHT NOW.

DETECTIVE: YOU ALL SET? ALL RIGHT.

MASON: BE RIGHT BACK, ALL RIGHT?

WHEN SOMEONE COMMITS A CRIME,

THEY DON'T TYPICALLY WALK INTO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT

AND SAY, "HEY, DETECTIVE, I DID IT,

AND THIS IS HOW I DID IT."

SO FOR SOMEONE TO BE INTERVIEWED FOR 10 HOURS,

AND THEN ULTIMATELY CONFESS THE CRIME THAT THEY COMMITTED,

I DON'T THINK THAT'S ABNORMAL.

I THINK THAT IT JUST TOOK THEM

THAT LONG TO REALIZE, YOU KNOW WHAT,

IT'S GOING TO FEEL BETTER

IF I GET THIS OFF MY CHEST RIGHT NOW.

HE'S A GOOD BOY. HE'S--

HE'S GENTLE. HE'S EASY.

EVERYONE AT HOME KNOWS THAT HE'S A GOOD BOY,

BUT I KNOW HE DIDN'T DO WHAT THEY SAY HE DID.

WE DISPUTE HERE AND WE DISPUTE NOW

THAT ADRIAN THOMAS CAUSED THE DEATH OF THAT BOY.

GODSHALK: ADRIAN WROTE A LENGTHY STATEMENT

DETAILING WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE AND AFTER

THE INFANT'S DEATH.

IN IT, HE ADMITS TO VIOLENTLY THROWING THE 4-MONTH-OLD

INTO THE CRIB, BUT NOW HIS PUBLIC DEFENDER SAYS

THAT STATEMENT WAS COERCED.

IS IT A VOLUNTARY STATEMENT WHEN YOU GOT 2 OR 3 COPS ON YOU?

YOU CALL THAT VOLUNTARY? AND YOUR SON--

YOU'VE JUST HEARD THAT YOUR SON HAS DIED?

FROST: WHEN I HEAR ABOUT A CASE WITH A CONFESSION,

THAT DOESN'T USUALLY DETER ME,

AND I KNOW THE CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER WHICH CONFESSIONS

ARE TYPICALLY OBTAINED,

AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW

THAT THERE IS A FAIRLY HIGH INCIDENT

OF, UH, FALSE CONFESSIONS.

GLASS: IT WASN'T UNTIL A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER

THAT I WENT OVER TO THE POLICE STATION

AND SAT DOWN WITH DETECTIVES FOUNTAIN AND MASON

AND WATCHED A F-- A GOOD PORTION,

MAYBE ABOUT AN HOUR OF THE INTERVIEW.

UH, TO ME, IT PROBABLY WAS THE MOST CRITICAL

SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE IN THIS TRIAL.

THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT A CONFESSION IN WORDS

THAT CAN BE HELPFUL, BUT TO OUR CASE,

TO PHYSICALLY HAVE THE DEFENDANT

THROWING A BINDER AS IF IT WAS HIS SON

ONTO THIS DESK, I KNEW THAT THIS WAS IMPORTANT EVIDENCE

THAT THE JURY WOULD ACTUALLY GET TO WITNESS

AND SEE FIRST-HAND.

THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF THIS CASE WE KNEW WE HAD

GOING INTO IT WAS THE FACT

THAT THERE WAS A WRITTEN STATEMENT

AND THAT THERE WAS A VIDEOTAPE,

AND THE VIDEOTAPE HAD ADRIAN DEMONSTRATING,

UH, CERTAIN THINGS INVOLVING HIS CHILD.

GLASS: THE POLICE TACTICS WERE SOMETHING

THAT WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT.

THERE WAS SOME TRICKERY AND DECEIT, UH, CLEARLY.

UM, DETECTIVE MASON TOLD FALSEHOODS.

HE LIED TO ADRIAN THOMAS DURING THE COURSE OF THE INTERVIEW.

UH, THAT DIDN'T TROUBLE ME PROFESSIONALLY,

BECAUSE I KNOW THE LAW TOLERATES THAT.

THE LAW ALLOWS IT.

IT'S A GENERALLY ACCEPTED INTERVIEWING TECHNIQUE.

I WAS, UH, INITIALLY VERY SURPRISED THAT,

UH, MR. THOMAS WAS ARGUING THAT THIS WAS

ESSENTIALLY A FALSE CONFESSION,

BECAUSE THERE WAS 9 HOURS' WORTH OF VIDEO

FOR HIM TO COME ABOUT GIVING THIS CONFESSION.

EFFMAN: AFTER DETERMINING THAT THIS WAS A CASE

WHERE WE NEEDED AN EXPERT ON FALSE CONFESSIONS,

IMMEDIATELY THE NAME OF DR. OFSHE

CAME TO OUR ATTENTION.

HE HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN INVOLVED WITH, UH,

OTHER CASES IN NEW YORK STATE.

FROST: I SENT HIM THIS INFORMATION COLD,

AND IT WAS--HE BASICALLY WAS SO UPSET BY IT

OR SO EXCITED BY IT THAT HE CALLED ME UP 5:30.

[CHUCKLING] I DON'T LIKE TO WORK ON FRIDAY AFTERNOONS,

UH, BUT THAT'S HOW STRONGLY HE FELT ABOUT THIS.

I STUDY INTERROGATIONS AS THEY OCCUR IN THE U.S.,

AND I'VE STUDIED THEM FROM MIAMI, FLORIDA,

TO BARROW, ALASKA,

AND THAT BECAME MY PRINCIPAL AREA OF WORK

AND HAS BEEN FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS.

THIS ONE IS PARTICULARLY UGLY,

BUT IT'S ONLY THE SHADE OF UGLINESS

THAT DIFFERENTIATES IT FROM LOTS OF OTHERS THAT I'VE SEEN.

MYSELF PERSONALLY WHEN I HEAR OF AN INTERROGATION OF A SUSPECT,

TO ME, THAT BRINGS YOU BACK

TO THE OLD COP DAYS ON TV,

WHERE SOMEBODY'S GOT A WHITE LIGHT

HANGING OVER YOUR HEAD,

AND THEY'RE ASKING YOU POINT BLANK QUESTIONS

THAT YOU BETTER ANSWER.

AN INTERVIEW PROCESS

THAT I THINK IS WHAT WE DO,

IS MORE OF US SPEAKING TO SOMEBODY,

ASKING THEM POINTED QUESTIONS, YES,

BUT LETTING THEM ANSWER IT IN THEIR OWN WAY.

LETTING THEM EXPLAIN IT TO US.

NOBODY'S YELLING, NOBODY'S SCREAMING.

THERE'S NO BEATING,

AND NOT THAT I THINK WE COULD HAVE,

'CAUSE HE WAS VERY BIG. [CHUCKLES]

HE WAS A LOT MORE INTIMIDATING THAN WE WERE.

OFSHE: POLICE INTERROGATION IN THIS COUNTRY

HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED OVER THE LAST 80, 90 YEARS.

THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE PRINCIPAL METHOD

THAT POLICE USED TO OVERCOME RESISTANCE

WAS CALL THE THIRD DEGREE,

AND THAT LITERALLY MEANT BEATING A CONFESSION

OUT OF A SUSPECT.

THE SUPREME COURT HANDED DOWN CASES

MAKING IT QUITE CLEAR THAT THE TORTUROUS PRACTICES

THAT WENT INTO THIRD DEGREE

HAD BEEN AND REMAINED UNACCEPTABLE IN AMERICA,

AND THIS ULTIMATELY FORCED POLICE

TO FIND A NEW WAY TO INTERROGATE.

BUCKLEY: THROUGH EXTENDED RESEARCH

AND YEARS OF EXPERIENCE,

JOHN REID ASSOCIATES HAS DEVELOPED

A 9-STEP INTERROGATION PROCESS.

THESE 9 STEPS ARE AS FOLLOWS.

STEP NUMBER ONE, THE POSITIVE CONFRONTATION.

MASON: THEY DO OFFER SEMINARS HERE AND THERE

ON INTERVIEWING SUSPECTS,

AND I DID ATTEND A ONE-DAY SEMINAR A FEW YEARS BACK,

AND, UH, YOU PICK UP SOME POINTERS HERE AND THERE,

BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, WHEN I GO INTO AN INTERVIEW,

I DON'T EVEN REFER TO THOSE POINTERS.

I JUST--I JUST KIND OF GO WITH THE FLOW

OF--OF THE INTERVIEW, AND I DON'T EVEN PLAN

AHEAD OF TIME FOR WHAT MY APPROACH IS GOING TO BE.

I JUST--I JUST DO IT.

ACTOR AS COP: DID YOU TAKE THE MONEY FROM THE MAN?

ACTOR AS SUSPECT: HEY, MAN, I'VE TOLD YOU,

I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THING, OKAY?

MASON: I MEAN, WE GOT TO KEEP TALKING TO YOU GUYS

UNTIL SOMETHING JARS IN YOUR HEAD AS TO WHAT HAPPENED.

THOMAS: BECAUSE I'M--

FOUNTAIN: IF YOU CAN REMEMBER ANYTHING

IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, LAST WEEK, WHERE ANYBODY--

ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN WHERE THAT BABY--

NOW, YOU SAID THE BABY WAS SICK.

SHE SAID THE BABY WAS SICK.

SHE SAID THE BABY'S BEEN CRYING A LOT.

THOMAS: YEAH, THE BABY WAS.

LIKE I SAID, IT PROGRESSED OVER--

OVER FRIDAY TO SATURDAY.

MASON: RIGHT.

THOMAS: I DID TELL YOU GUYS THAT.

I DIDN'T LIE. I'M NOT LYING TO YOU GUYS.

FOUNTAIN: WE'VE BEEN TO SOME INTERVIEW

AND INTERROGATION SCHOOLS,

AND, YOU KNOW, HOW TO GET CONFESSIONS.

I WENT TO THAT ONE. IT WAS A TWO-DAY COURSE.

BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO PEOPLE,

AND ME AND ADAM WORK WELL TOGETHER,

AND I THINK WE BOTH COULD TALK TO PEOPLE.

WE CAN GO WITH THE FLOW,

KIND OF MAKE THINGS UP AS WE GO ALONG,

[SNIFFS] AND NOT JUST LEAVE BLANK SPACES

FOR 20 MINUTES AT A TIME.

OFSHE: THE HEART OF THE REID METHOD

IS TO PUT SOMEBODY IN A POSITION

IN WHICH THEY'RE GIVEN A CHOICE.

THE CHOICE IS BETWEEN TWO ALTERNATIVES,

ONE IS MUCH WORSE THAN THE OTHER.

SO IN DEVELOPING THAT CHOICE,

THEY DO WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL MINIMIZING.

THEY USE SOFT LANGUAGE,

THEY DESCRIBE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LEAST OFFENSIVE TERMS,

THEY ALSO WILL SUGGEST THAT THERE IS A REASON

FOR WHY THIS HAPPENED.

ACTOR AS COP: WHEN THINGS HAPPEN IN BARS,

THEY'RE NOT PLANNED.

WHAT THEY ARE IS THEY'RE SPUR OF THE MOMENT.

YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY GOES IN

THEY HAVE A COUPLE TOO MANY COCKTAILS,

NEXT THING YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY MAKES A WISECRACK,

AND, BANG, SOMETHING HAPPENS.

MASON: SOMEBODY'S GOING TO LOOK AT THIS LITTLE 4-MONTH-OLD BABY

WITH A FRACTURE IN THE BACK OF HIS SKULL,

AND THEN LOOK AT YOU AND SAY,

"HE DIDN'T-- HE DIDN'T TELL YOU

THAT HE DID IT ON AN ACCIDENT?"

THEY'RE GOING TO THINK YOU DID IT ON PURPOSE.

THOMAS: WHY WOULD I DO THAT?

MASON: I DON'T KNOW. FOUNTAIN: WE DON'T NOW.

- WOULD YOU. - WHY WOULD YOU?

THOMAS: NO, WHY WOULD I HURT MY OWN SON?

MASON: WELL, THEN IT MUST HAVE BEEN A ACCIDENT.

IF YOU WOULDN'T DO IT ON PURPOSE,

AND YOUR WIFE WOULDN'T DO IT ON PURPOSE,

THEN ONE OF YOU DID IT ON A ACCIDENT.

BUT IF YOU DON'T TELL US AND YOUR WIFE DON'T TELL US

HOW THIS ACCIDENT HAPPENED,

SOMEBODY'S GOING TO THINK YOU DID IT ON PURPOSE.

FOUNTAIN: IT'S A WHOLE THING WITH REMORSE.

YOU EVER SEE IT ON TV? THEY GOT TO HAVE REMORSE.

YOU GOT TO SHOW THAT YOU DIDN'T--YOU FELT BAD.

THOMAS: NO, NO, BUT--

FOUNTAIN: AND YOU MADE A MISTAKE,

AND SOMETHING WRONG HAPPENED.

THOMAS: NO, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS,

I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T DO NOTHING, MAN.

OFSHE: GOING INTO THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENT

CREATES A SENSE IN AN INDIVIDUAL THAT,

"I DON'T HAVE ANY POWER.

THEY HAVE ALL THE POWER."

MASON: THAT'S WHAT I MEAN HE STARTED GETTING SICK 3 DAYS AGO.

WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS HAPPENED 3 DAYS AGO.

FOUNTAIN: THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED

THE NIGHT BEFORE IT HAPPENED.

MASON: THIS COULD HAVE HAPPENED LAST WEEKEND.

OFSHE: THE WAY IN WHICH THIS PART OF THE INTERROGATION GOES,

THE CREATING OF A SENSE OF HOPELESSNESS,

IS BY THE INTERROGATOR INTRODUCING

WHAT I REFER TO AS EVIDENCE PLOYS.

AN EVIDENCE PLOY IS ANY STATEMENT

WHICH IF IT WERE TRUE

WOULD LINK THE PERSON TO THE CRIME.

MASON: AND LIKE THE OTHER OFFICER EXPLAINED TO YOU,

THERE'S--THERE'S DAMAGE ON THE BRAIN.

THERE'S A FRACTURE ON THE BACK OF THE SKULL, OKAY?

AND THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS...

IT JUST--IT DOESN'T-- IT JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN

WITHOUT SOMEONE BEING INVOLVED

AND SOMEONE KNOWING THAT IT HAPPENED, YOU FOLLOW ME?

THOMAS: YEAH, BUT I NEVER...

MASON: SO HOWEVER THAT-- HOWEVER IT HAPPENED,

SOMEBODY KNOWS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW,

THEN YOUR WIFE KNOWS,

BUT SOMEBODY IN THAT HOUSE KNOWS HOW THAT HAPPENED,

BECAUSE SOMEBODY HAD TO PARTICIPATE

IN INJURING THAT CHILD.

OFSHE: THE INTERROGATOR WILL SUGGEST A SCENARIO

FOR THE CRIME,

AND WILL ALSO MAKE IT CLEAR

THAT IF THIS IS THE WAY IT HAPPENED,

YOU CAN GO HOME AT THE END OF THE DAY.

FOUNTAIN: HERE'S OUR DEAL.

I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW YOU'RE GOING HOME.

YOU'RE GOING HOME WITHIN THE NEXT HOUR.

YOU'RE GOING HOME.

THOMAS: BUT I DIDN'T DO NOTHING.

MASON: DO YOU THINK THAT IF YOU TELL US,

"YOU KNOW WHAT, OFFICER?"

FOUNTAIN: "I MADE A MISTAKE."

MASON: "LAST NIGHT, I DID THIS,

BUT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT,"

THAT WE'RE GOING TO PUT HANDCUFFS ON YOU

AND THROW YOU IN JAIL? IS THAT WHAT YOU--

LOOK, HYPOTHETICALLY,

IS THAT WHAT YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?

IS THAT WHAT YOUR FRIENDS ARE TELLING YOU

WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?

'CAUSE THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR, ALL RIGHT?

FOUNTAIN: WE'RE GOING TO GET PIZZA DOWN AT YOUR HOUSE.

MASON: IF YOU TELL US...

THOMAS: I NEVER DID--

MASON: WHAT I'M SAYING, IF YOU TELL US

THAT--THAT ACCIDENTALLY, YOU CAUSED THIS INJURY

LAST NIGHT OR THE NIGHT BEFORE,

WE'RE STILL GOING TO DRIVE YOU HOME TONIGHT.

WE AIN'T ARRESTING YOU TONIGHT.

WE'RE STILL GOING TO DRIVE YOU HOME.

OFSHE: IF THE STORY THAT YOU TELL

IS AN ACCIDENT STORY,

"WELL, AN ACCIDENT IS AN ACCIDENT,

"AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING CRIMINAL HERE.

WE DON'T WANT TO PUT ANYBODY IN JAIL,"

THAT KIND OF THING,

"AS LONG AS IT'S AN ACCIDENT,"

AND HE KEEPS PUTTING IN,

"AND IT WAS AN ACCIDENT, AND IT WAS AN ACCIDENT,

AND IT WAS AN ACCIDENT."

THAT'S THE MAGIC WORD, "ACCIDENT."

MASON: IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY HURT YOUR SON,

IT'S AN ACCIDENT.

THOMAS: NO.

MASON: BUT I'M SAYING IF YOU DID.

THOMAS: NO!

MASON: IF YOUR WIFE ACCIDENTALLY HURT YOUR SON,

IT'S AN ACCIDENT.

DO YOU THINK THAT IF YOU-- IF YOU ACCIDENTALLY

CAUSED THIS INJURY THAT WE'RE GOING TO ARREST YOU?

DO YOU THINK THAT?

- YES OR NO. - YES.

MASON: WELL, I'M TELLING YOU THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO, OKAY?

FOUNTAIN: AND WE CAN'T LIE TO YOU ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF WE LIED TO YOU, THEN YOU COULD USE THAT AGAINST US.

MASON: WE'RE NOT GOING TO ARREST YOU TONIGHT.

IGNORE YOUR FRIENDS.

THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO TONIGHT.

THOMAS: BUT I--I--

MASON: I'M JUST LETTING YOU KNOW THAT.

FOUNTAIN: MY SOLEMN PROMISE,

AND I HAVEN'T LIED TO YOU YET TONIGHT.

WHEN WE'RE DONE HERE, WE ARE BRINGING YOU HOME.

MASON: DO YOU KNOW THE DIFFERENCE

BETWEEN YOU WALKING IN AND PICKING UP A CRYING BABY

AND SAYING, "I FUCKING HATE THIS BABY.

I WANT TO KILL THIS BABY,"

AND THROWING IT ON THE GROUND

AND SAYING, "I'M FRUSTRATED.

"I GOT KIDS CRYING ALL DAY.

"I HAVEN'T WORKED IN 7 MONTHS.

THIS BABY WON'T STOP CRYING."

OFSHE: THE REASON THAT THEY SAY THINGS LIKE,

"YOU WERE UNDER A LOT OF STRESS.

"YOU'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR A JOB,"

AND THINGS LIKE THAT IS AS PART OF TRYING TO GET SOMEBODY

TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS AN ACCEPTABLE EXPLANATION

FOR WHY YOU LOST YOUR TEMPER

AND FRACTURED THE KID'S SKULL,

OR LOST YOUR TEMPER AND SHOOK THE BABY,

OR LOST YOUR TEMPER AND DID WHATEVER

THEIR LATEST THEORY OF HOW THIS BABY DIED,

WHATEVER IT HAPPENS TO BE.

THOMAS: THAT SOUND LIKE A GOOD COURT CASE,

BUT I DIDN'T DO IT.

MASON: BUT THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE.

AND IF YOU DIDN'T DO IT,

MAYBE THAT'S HOW IT HAPPENED WITH YOUR WIFE.

DID SHE TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THAT?

THOMAS: NO.

OFSHE: THE NEXT MOVE IS TO SAY,

"WELL, THERE WERE ONLY TWO ADULTS IN THE HOUSE

"WHEN THE CHILD WAS INJURED.

IF IT WASN'T YOU, IT WAS YOUR WIFE."

MASON: AND NO ONE ELSE IN THAT HOUSE

OTHER THAN YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE PHYSICALLY CAPABLE

OF CAUSING THE DAMAGE TO THIS KID'S HEAD, ALL RIGHT?

THAT'S WHAT THE DOCTOR SAID.

THE KIDS COULD NOT HAVE DONE IT.

HE COULDN'T HAVE FALLEN OFF THE BED.

THOMAS: I'M NOT BLAMING MY KIDS FOR THAT.

MASON: BUT I'M JUST SAYING--

THOMAS: I'M NOT BLAMING MY KIDS FOR THAT.

MASON: THIS ACCIDENT WAS-WAS-WAS CAUSED

BY EITHER YOU OR YOUR WIFE OR SOME ADULT.

FOUNTAIN: SHE SAYS SOMETIMES YOU GIVE HER THE BABY

WHEN WE WAS CRYING, GO, "HERE! HE WON'T STOP!"

THOMAS: AW, I NEVER DID THAT IN MY LIFE.

FOUNTAIN: NEVER? THOMAS: I NEVER DID THAT.

FOUNTAIN: YOU NEED TO TELL ME--

TELL ME WHEN SHE COULD HAVE DONE THIS.

THOMAS: I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T SAY SHE DID IT.

FOUNTAIN: GIVE ME A REASON TO GO AFTER HER.

WHY IS SHE SAYING YOU DID IT THEN?

THOMAS: I DIDN'T DO NOTHING.

FOUNTAIN: BUT WHY IS SHE SAYING YOU DID IT,

AND YOU'RE SAYING SHE DIDN'T DO IT?

THOMAS: I'M SAYING SHE DIDN'T DO IT,

AND I--I KNOW I DIDN'T DO IT.

FOUNTAIN: SHE'S SAYING YOU WERE IN THAT ROOM LAST NIGHT

AND YOU MUST HAVE DONE IT. THAT'S WHAT SHE TOLD US.

THOMAS: NO, I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T DO NOTHING, MAN.

FOUNTAIN: SHE SIGNED THE PAPERWORK.

THOMAS: I KNOW--I SWEAR TO GOD, I DIDN'T DO NOTHING, MAN.

EFFMAN: ONCE WE RECEIVED HIS WIFE,

WILHAMENA HICKS' STATEMENTS

AND WE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THEM,

SHE NEVER STATES THAT SHE EVER SAW ADRIAN

PHYSICALLY HARMING EITHER OF THESE TWINS

EVER IN THE 4 MONTHS OF THEIR LIFE.

FOUNTAIN: AS FAR AS TELLING SOMEBODY A LIE,

WE'LL DO WHATEVER WE HAVE TO DO

TO GET THEM TO TELL US THE TRUTH,

SO WE'LL TELL THEM THAT IT HAPPENED TO OUR BROTHER.

WE'LL TELL THEM THAT IT HAPPENED TO OUR BEST FRIEND.

[SNIFFS] WE'LL TELL THEM THAT OUR OWN CHILD DID THIS

JUST SO WE CAN GET THEM TO TELL US THE TRUTH.

THOMAS: I--I--I DON'T KNOW WHO COULD HAVE DID WHAT,

BECAUSE WHEN I WENT, WHEN HE WAS IN MY CARE, HE WAS FINE.

FOUNTAIN: WHO COULD HAVE TAKEN THE BABY AND DONE THIS?

WHO COULD HAVE DONE IT?

THOMAS: I DON'T KNOW, MAN.

FOUNTAIN: GRABBED THAT BABY BY THE SHOULDERS,

SMACKED HIM DOWN ON TOP OF SOMETHING

SO IT FRACTURED THE BACK OF THE BABY'S SKULL.

MASON: RIGHT? FRUSTRATION.

FOUNTAIN: WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS?

WHO COULD HAVE DONE THIS? WALKED AROUND,

AND SORT OF HALF-ASLEEP GOING, BOOM! INTO A WALL.

- OH, MY GOD. - AND SAID, "SHIT!"

WHO COULD HAVE DONE THAT?

THOMAS: THAT'S NOT FOR--

MASON: WHO COULD HAVE BEEN HOLDING A BOTTLE--

WHO COULD HAVE BEEN MAKING A BOTTLE,

HOLDING A BABY OVER ON THE KITCHEN COUNTER

AND DROPPED THE BABY ON THE KITCHEN FLOOR?

FOUNTAIN: ALL RIGHT, OR NEXT TO THE KITCHEN TABLE.

MASON: WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, MAN,

IS IF YOU DIDN'T-- IF YOU DIDN'T ACCIDENTALLY

HARM YOUR CHILD, THEN YOUR WIFE DID, ALL RIGHT?

THEN YOUR WIFE DID.

THOMAS: WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, MY WIFE IS A GOOD WIFE.

I HAVE A GOOD WIFE, I'M NOT GOING TO LIE TO YOU.

I DON'T BELIEVE MY WIFE DID THAT.

I HAVE NO IDEA THAT MY WIFE DID THAT.

YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING?

BUT IF IT COMES DOWN TO IT,

I'LL TAKE THE BLAME FOR IT,

BECAUSE I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T--

LISTEN, I DIDN'T DO IT.

I LOVE MY SON.

BUT IF IT COME DOWN TO IT,

I'LL TAKE THE-- THE RAP FOR MY WIFE

SO SHE WON'T GO TO JAIL.

FOUNTAIN: NOW YOU GOT TO TELL US--

HOW YOU GOING TO TELL US YOU DID THAT THEN?

HOW YOU GOING TO TAKE THE RAP FOR YOUR WIFE?

THOMAS: BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, UM,

I DON'T WANT MY WIFE TO GO TO JAIL.

MASON: SO WHAT HAPPENED THEN?

FOUNTAIN: WHAT HAPPENED? TELL ME.

OFSHE: HE SAYS, TO PROTECT HIS WIFE,

"I'LL TAKE THE FALL."

IT COULDN'T BE ANY CLEARER.

AND HE STEPS UP TO THE PLATE AND DOES

MORE DRAMATICALLY THAN I THINK

THEY COULD EVER HAVE IMAGINED HE WOULD DO,

HE TAKES THE HIT.

THOMAS: NO, I'M SAYING I WILL TAKE THIS--

YOU KNOW, TAKE THE FALL FOR MY WIFE,

'CAUSE I GOT A GOOD WIFE.

FOUNTAIN: TAKE THE FALL.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T DO IT.

MASON: YOU CAN'T JUST SAY

"I'M GOING TO TAKE THE FALL FOR MY WIFE."

YOU GOT TO TELL US WHAT HAPPENED.

THOMAS: I--I DON'T KNOW HOW IT HAPPENED.

FOUNTAIN: THEN YOU CAN'T TAKE THE FALL FOR YOUR WIFE.

THEN WE GOT GO PICK YOUR WIFE UP.

THOMAS: NO, BUT MY WIFE WAS--

OFSHE: BUT ADRIAN CAN'T TELL THEM WHAT HAPPENED,

AND THEY DON'T SEEM SURPRISED BY THAT.

THEY CERTAINLY, IN MY JUDGMENT,

DISPLAY NOTHING THAT SUGGESTS

THAT THEY HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING

THAT YOU CAN COERCE A FALSE CONFESSION

FROM SOMEONE WHO'S IGNORANT ABOUT THE CRIME,

BUT YOU CAN'T GET BLOOD FROM A STONE.

THOMAS: I REALLY BELIEVE MY WIFE DIDN'T DO THAT.

I KNOW FOR A FACT, 'CAUSE I DIDN'T DO IT.

BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS,

MAYBE IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED IN MY CARE POSSIBLY.

NO LIE. THAT'S THE GOD HONEST TRUTH.

FOUNTAIN: WE EXPLAINED TO ADRIAN

THAT IF HE'S SAYING HE DIDN'T DO IT,

THEN HIS WIFE MUST HAVE DONE IT,

AND WE SAID THAT TO HIM,

HOPING TO GET SOME KIND OF RISE OUT OF HIM,

'CAUSE HE HADN'T RISEN AT ALL.

[SNIFFS] AND THAT WAS WHEN ADRIAN FINALLY CAME AROUND

A LITTLE BIT AND TOOK SOME OF THE OUTS WE HAD GIVEN HIM.

HE SAID, "WELL, MAYBE THE BABY DID FALL

AND BANG HIS HEAD."

THOMAS: HE WAS CRYING,

SO AFTER I GOT HIM QUIET, I DID BUMP--BUMP HIS HEAD--

BUMPED HIS HEAD PUTTING HIM IN THE CRIB,

AND AT THE SAME TIME, HE WAS CRYING THEN,

SO I PICKED HIM BACK UP.

OFSHE: IF SOMEONE STARTS OUT WITH,

"I NEVER DID ANYTHING TO INJURE MY CHILD,"

THAT'S THE WALL.

THE DETECTIVES LOOK FOR A CRACK IN THE WALL.

MASON: DID YOU LAY HIM DOWN, OR DID YOU KIND OF LIKE,

MAYBE GET HIM, LIKE, A FOOT FROM THE CRIB

AND THEN KIND OF, LIKE, DROP HIM AND THEN GO?

THOMAS: NO, I--IT WAS LIKE I WAS PUTTING HIM DOWN

AND HE WAS RIGHT THERE AT THE BED,

BOOM, HE HIT THE SIDE-- HE HIT THE SIDE PART.

OFSHE: IF YOU CAN GET THAT PERSON

TO SAY, "WELL, I MIGHT HAVE HELD HIM A LITTLE HARD,"

BECAUSE YOU'RE SUGGESTING THAT

AND YOU'RE STRUCTURING THAT AS A WAY OUT,

YOU'VE NOW FOUND A CRACK IN THE WALL.

THOMAS: SO AFTER I GOT HIM QUIET,

I DID BUMP HIS HEAD--

BUMP HIS HEAD PUTTING HIM IN THE CRIB,

AND AT THE SAME TIME, HE WAS CRYING THEN,

SO I PICKED HIM BACK UP.

MASON: YOU THINK IT WAS THAT YOU BUMPED HIS HEAD

HARD ENOUGH TO CAUSE AN INJURY?

THOMAS: I--I MIGHT OF HAVE, 'CAUSE I...

OFSHE: IF YOU CAN FIND THAT CRACK IN THE WALL,

YOU CAN STICK SOMETHING IN IT AND BANG ON IT

AND WIDEN THE CRACK AND TRY TO DEVELOP IT.

FROST: HE'S GIVEN THEM SOMETHING.

LIKE, "WELL, OKAY, I'LL GIVE THEM SOMETHING,

AND THEN THIS THING WILL BE OVER,"

AND, YOU KNOW, "ALL THEY WANT IS SOMETHING.

"IT'S AN ACCIDENT, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO JAIL.

"I'VE ALREADY TOLD THEM I'M GOING TO TAKE THE RAP."

BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH,

SO THEY JUST KEEP RATCHETING IT UP

AND RATCHETING UP AND RATCHETING UP,

RATCHETING UP, AND RATCHETING UP.

MASON: I DON'T THINK YOU DID IT INTENTIONALLY.

I'M SAYING BUT DO YOU DID--

THOMAS: I DID PUT HIM IN THE CRIB, NO LIE.

I DID PUT HIM IN THE CRIB.

MY WIFE WAS GONE,

AND I'M NOT BULLSHITTING YOU,

BUT I NEVER THOUGHT,

UH, IT WOULD END LIKE THIS?

FOUNTAIN: DID HE GASP A LITTLE BIT?

MASON: IT WAS DEFINITELY A LONG INTERVIEW.

I THINK AT THAT POINT, ADRIAN WAS JUST

TRYING TO GIVE ME PIECES OF INFORMATION,

HOPING THAT IT WOULD SATISFY ME.

IT WASN'T ANYTHING CRIMINAL IN NATURE AT THAT POINT.

THERE WAS DEFINITELY NOT ENOUGH TO ARREST HIM

AFTER THAT FIRST INTERVIEW.

WE DIDN'T HAVE IT.

AND YET WE STILL KNEW THAT HE WAS THE PERSON

WHO HAD DONE THIS TO HIS CHILD,

SO IT STILL GAVE US ENOUGH GAS

TO KEEP WANTING TO GO AT HIM.

[INTERVIEW CONTINUES INDISTINCTLY]

MASON: WE FEEL BAD,

AND WE JUST MET YOU GUYS TODAY.

I CAN'T IMAGINE HOW YOU MUST FEEL, YOU KNOW?

THOMAS: I FEEL LIKE I COULD JUMP OFF A BRIDGE, MAN.

FOUNTAIN: WE HOPE IT DOESN'T COME TO THAT.

IF YOU THINK YOU NEED TO SOMEBODY ABOUT THAT,

WE CAN GET YOU SOME HELP FOR THAT, TOO.

ADRIAN EXPRESSED TO US

THAT HE THOUGHT HE MIGHT JUMP OFF A BRIDGE

IF THE CHILD DIED,

AND HE STILL, I DON'T BELIEVE,

USED THE CHILD'S FIRST NAME, SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW

IF HE KNEW WHICH CHILD HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

FOUNTAIN: YOU'RE MAKING ME WORRIED.

THOMAS: I JUST FEEL BAD, MAN.

FOUNTAIN: I UNDERSTAND YOU FEEL BAD.

IS THIS SOMETHING YOU CAN DEAL WITH,

OR DO YOU WANT TO GO UP

AND TALK TO SOMEBODY ABOUT THIS?

THOMAS: I JUST--

AT THAT POINT, WE HAD TO SIT THERE AND SAY,

"MAYBE WE SHOULD SEND HIM UP TO SAMARITAN MENTAL HEALTH

AND SPEAK TO A PROFESSIONAL,"

'CAUSE HE DID MAKE THE COMMENT

THAT HE DID WANT TO HURT HIMSELF.

FOUNTAIN: WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU WANT TO DO TONIGHT?

THOMAS: UH, UH, YOU KNOW,

I WANT TO SPEAK TO SOMEBODY, 'CAUSE I FEEL REAL BAD.

FOUNTAIN: THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING YOU UP THERE.

THOMAS: I FEEL BAD, MAN, YOU KNOW.

IF HE DIES, I'LL FEEL-- FEEL REAL BAD, YOU KNOW.

I JUST--I JUST--

FOUNTAIN: WELL, WE'LL GET YOU UP THERE.

I'M GOING TO PUT THESE BACK IN THE SERGEANT'S DESK

THAT I STOLE THESE FROM.

EFFMAN: WE HAVE A MAN HERE WHO HAD NEVER

SPENT TIME IN JAIL, HAS NO CRIMINAL HISTORY,

WHO'D BEEN THROUGH SORT OF A SERIES OF

REALLY TRAGIC THINGS IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME,

AND I GUESS THE BEST WAY I CAN DESCRIBE HIM

IS SORT OF A DEER IN HEADLIGHTS.

HE WAS IN A STATE OF SHOCK.

TO HAVE BEEN IN A MENTAL HEALTH WARD

AFTER YOU THREATEN TO KILL YOURSELF

FOR AT LEAST 16 HOURS,

TO COME OUT OF THERE FROM THE LOCKED DOORS

TO HAVE THE POLICE WAITING TO ESCORT YOU TO THE...

THE STATION, I THINK THAT'S A SITUATION

NOBODY CAN POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND.

MASON: WE DIDN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO TELL HIM,

"DON'T LEAVE TOWN,"

OR, "MAKE SURE YOU CALL US WHEN YOU'RE RELEASED,"

BUT WE DEFINITELY HAD AN INTEREST IN WHERE HE WAS

AND WHAT HE WAS DOING,

BECAUSE HE WAS, UH, RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE

OF THE INVESTIGATION.

SO HE DIDN'T SEEM SURPRISED TO SEE US

WHEN HE--WHEN HE CAME OUT.

HE APPEARED TO BE IN THE--THE--

PRETTY MUCH THE SAME CONDITION AS HE WAS THE NIGHT BEFORE

WHEN-WHEN WE FIRST MET HIM.

MASON: THIS IS IMPORTANT, MAN FOR YOUR FAMILY.

[THOMAS SPEAKS QUIETLY]

FROST: HE SLEPT APPROXIMATELY AND HOUR AND A HALF.

HERE WE HAVE A MAN WHO IS SUBJECT TO THIS

OVERWHELMING, CATASTROPHIC STRESS,

GROGGY WITHOUT SLEEP,

DEPRESSED.

HE HAS A BABY STILL IN HIS MIND IN THE HOSPITAL

AT DEATH'S DOOR.

MASON: I GOT GOOD NEWS FOR YOU.

REMEMBER YESTERDAY I TOLD YOU THAT HE HAD A FRACTURE

IN THE BACK OF HIS SKULL?

THOMAS: YEAH.

MASON: GUESS WHAT? THAT AIN'T TRUE.

HE DOESN'T HAVE A FRACTURE ON HIS SKULL.

HIS SKULL IS OKAY.

THAT'S GOOD NEWS.

THOMAS: I GUESS, MAN.

MASON: THERE'S LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.

DURING THE DAYTIME ON MONDAY,

I WENT BACK TO ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER

AND I ACTUALLY SPOKE TO DR. EDGE,

AND, UH, I TOOK A DEPOSITION FROM HIM,

AND I WAS INFORMED THAT THE, UH, ORIGINAL DIAGNOSIS

OF A SKULL FRACTURE WAS ACTUALLY NOT TRUE.

SO WHATEVER HAPPENED TO PUT HIM IN THIS POSITION, OKAY?

IT MAY NOT HAVE BEEN

AS FORCEFUL AS WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT.

THIS CASE HAD MANY HOLES IN IT.

FIRST OF ALL, THERE IS NO SKULL FRACTURE.

A SKELETAL SURVEY WAS DONE ON THE CHILD'S BODY.

THERE'S NOT ONE BROKEN BONE ON THIS CHILD'S BODY.

THE CHILD HAS NO SIGNS OF ANY BRUISING.

RIGHT FROM THE GET GO HERE, THOUGH,

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HOSPITAL RECORDS,

YOU SEE THERE'S ZERO EVIDENCE OF FORCE.

AND YOU'VE GOT DR. EDGE

RUNNING DOWN THE HALL AT ALBANY MED,

"THIS CHILD HAS BEEN MURDERED!

THIS CHILD HAS BEEN MURDERED."

I MEAN, IS THAT MEDICINE,

OR IS THAT PASSION?

OKAY?

IS THAT SCIENCE, OR IS IT ZEALOTRY, OKAY?

I MEAN, COME ON.

I'M NOT SURE THAT HE WAS ACTUA--

DR. EDGE ACTUALLY SAID, "THERE IS A SKULL FRACTURE."

HE MAY HAVE COUCHED THAT IN TERMS OF,

"IT APPEARS," OR, "WE BELIEVE,"

AND IN FACT THE NEXT DAY, IT WAS DETERMINED

THAT THERE WAS NO SKULL FRACTURE.

SO THAT WAS SOMEWHAT TROUBLING

BECAUSE IT GAVE SOME AMMUNITION TO THE DEFENSE

TO, UH, CHALLENGE THE, UH, ACCURACY

OF THE PROSECUTION MEDICAL TESTIMONY.

THIS IS HOW I DEFEND CRIMINAL CASES.

I TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENED,

SO I PICKED UP THE PHONE,

AND I CALLED DR. LEESTMA,

WHO IS A NEUROPATHOLOGIST OF EMINENT CREDENTIALS,

THE MAN WHO WROTE THE BOOK ON NEUROPATHOLOGY.

HOSPITALS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, ALL OVER THE WORLD,

WOULD SEND CASES TO BE REVIEWED.

THAT'S DR. LEESTMA.

I GUESS I NEED TO DEFINE WHAT PATHOLOGY IS.

IT'S THE STUDY OF HUMAN DISEASE,

HOW IT WORKS,

WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE UNDER THE MICROSCOPE,

HOW IT DOES ITS DIRTY BUSINESS,

AND BY DISEASE I MEAN ANYTHING FROM A TOOTHACHE

TO CANCER, TO A BRAIN TUMOR TO HEAD TRAUMA.

ALL OF THOSE ARE DISEASES,

AND IT'S MY JOB AND SPECIALTY

TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS.

UH, SO I LOOKED AT THE AUTOPSY REPORT,

AND THERE WERE MENTIONS IN THE AUTOPSY REPORT

OF INFLAMMATORY CELLS,

UH, BUT IT DIDN'T TAKE THAT OBSERVATION ANY FURTHER.

AND THEN, OF COURSE, I GO TO THE OBJECTIVE MATERIAL,

WHICH IS THE MICROSCOPIC SLIDE,

AND I SAID, "OH, MY GOODNESS, LOOK AT THIS."

THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY AN INFECTION PRESENT,

AND IT LOOKED TO BE BACTERIAL,

SO I WAS VERY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT, IF ANY, ORGANISMS

COULD BE FOUND IN THAT-- IN THESE SPECIFIC AREAS,

AND, UH, THAT REQUIRES A SPECIAL STAIN.

GRAM STAINS HAD APPARENTLY NOT BEEN PREPARED ORIGINALLY,

AND I REQUESTED, UH, PLEASE, COULD THAT BE DONE,

AND COULD I HAVE COPIES OF THEM.

AND THAT ENABLED ME THEN TO SAY, YES,

THESE INFECTED AREAS ARE LOADED

WITH A BACTERIAL FORM.

IT BECAME APPARENT THAT THE NATURE OF THE INFECTION,

ITS EXTENT AND SO FORTH, COULD BE LIFE-THREATENING.

IT'S A CAUSE OF DEATH RIGHT THERE.

EFFMAN: DR. LEESTMA SAYS THIS CHILD DIED

FROM AN OVERWHELMING INFECTION,

SO THEN I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH

AND FOUND OUT WHO WAS THE-- THE MAN, THE PHYSICIAN,

ON PEDIATRIC INFECTIOUS DISEASES,

AND THAT'S DR. JEROME KLEIN FROM BOSTON.

HARVARD MED, BOSTON UNIVERSITY MED,

A WORLD-CLASS EXPERT

ON PEDIATRIC INFECTIOUS DISEASES,

WHO FOR OVER 50 YEARS HAS TREATED REAL CHILDREN.

IT HAS BECOME VERY CLEAR THAT THE TRIAL

OF ADRIAN THOMAS HAS BECOME A WAR OF EXPERTS.

A LIST OF MEDICAL EXPERTS

PRESENTING THE JURY WITH TWO DIFFERENT DETERMINATIONS

OF HOW 4-MONTH-OLD MATTHEW DIED,

BY THE HANDS OF HIS FATHER OR BY INFECTION.

THE DEFENSE BROUGHT INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST

JEROME KLEIN TO THE STAND,

WHO LISTED OFF HALF A DOZEN OF THE BABY'S SYMPTOMS

IN HIS FINAL DAYS THAT THE DOCTOR AND THE DEFENSE SAY

POINT TO OVERWHELMING INFECTION,

NOT HOMICIDE.

THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT THIS CHILD DIED

BECAUSE OF OVERWHELMING PNEUMOCOCCAL SEPSIS.

SEPSIS IS A CLINICAL TERM

THAT IMPLIES THAT THERE IS A SYSTEMIC INFECTION.

THE PNEUMOCOCCUS IS VERY COMMON,

AND IT PARTICULARLY IS A PROBLEM FOR YOUNG INFANTS.

IT STARTS IN THE NOSE AND THROAT,

AND IN SOME CHILDREN IT'LL BE PRESENT

AND COLONIZE THAT AREA.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT HOW MATTHEW DEVELOPED THE INFECTION,

HOW IT PROGRESSED, HOW IT BECAME SO DANGEROUS

THAT IT FINALLY CAUSED HIS DEATH.

THE HISTORY THAT HAD BEEN PROVIDED BY THE MOTHER

WAS THAT THE CHILD HAD BEEN ILL FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS

WITH VOMITING, UH, DIARRHEA,

BUT ON THE MORNING OF SEPTEMBER 21, 2008,

UH, THE MOM HAD OBSERVED THE BABY AT 6:00.

SHE'D GIVEN A FEEDING AT 4:00 IN THE MORNING,

AND 8:00, THERE APPEARED TO BE RESPIRATORY DISTRESS,

AND SHE CALLED THE EMTs.

WHEN THE CHILD WAS FIRST SEEN AT SAMARITAN HOSPITAL,

UH, IN THE DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS,

UH, SEPSIS WAS PROMINENT,

AND THE APPROPRIATE STEPS WERE TAKEN.

CULTURE OF BLOOD WAS OBTAINED,

DIFFERENT LABORATORY TESTS.

THE CHILD WAS STARTED

ON APPROPRIATE INTRAVENOUS ANTIBIOTICS.

WHEN THE CHILD WAS TRANSFERRED TO ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER,

THE PHYSICIAN'S FOCUS CHANGED FROM INFECTION

TO CHILD ABUSE.

UNFORTUNATELY IN MATTHEW'S CASE,

HE PROCEEDED TO DETERIORATE.

HE DROPPED HIS BLOOD PRESSURE.

WITH A VERY LOW WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT OF 1,000,

DECREASED CLOTTING MECHANISMS,

FAILURE TO MAINTAIN STABILITY OF TEMPERATURE,

FAILURE TO MAINTAIN OXYGEN SATURATIONS.

ALL REFLECTIONS OF OVERWHELMING INFECTION,

SEPSIS, AND SEPTIC SHOCK.

IN FACT, THE BLOOD CULTURE TAKEN AT SAMARITAN HOSPITAL

IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS OF SEPTEMBER 21st

WAS ONLY IDENTIFIED AFTER THE CHILD HAD DIED,

AND IT REVEALED A PNEUMOCOCCUS.

WOW. EUREKA.

OKAY, THIS IS COMING RIGHT NOW,

IF YOU PARDON MY EXPRESSION, YOU KNOW,

UH, FROM THE BURNING BUSH.

OKAY, THIS IS JEROME KLEIN.

HE'S WRITTEN, WHAT, PUBLISHED 967, YOU KNOW, PIECES

ON INFECTIOUS-- PEDIATRIC INFECTIOUS DISEASES.

HE'S THE MAN.

DR. SIKIRICA, THE COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER,

THERE ISN'T ONE WORD OF SEPSIS OR SEPTIC SHOCK

IN HIS AUTOPSY REPORT.

GLASS: I--I GUESS I REALLY CAN'T EXPLAIN

WHY SEPSIS DIDN'T COME UP

IN THE CONTEXT OF THE, UH, POSTMORTEM EXAMINATION,

OTHER THAN TO PERHAPS POSIT THAT DR. SIKIRICA

FELT CONFIDENT ENOUGH

THAT THE ACTUAL CAUSE OF DEATH WAS, UH, THE--THE HEAD INJURY,

THE HEAD TRAUMA, UH, AND IF THERE WAS SEPSIS,

AND I--AND I DON'T BELIEVE HE--

MY RECOLLECTION IS HE DID NOT DENY THAT THERE WAS SEPSIS,

BUT THAT IT WAS SECONDARY TO THE HEAD TRAUMA.

EFFMAN: THE PROSECUTION WITNESSES

THAT WERE CALLED AT THE TRIAL

NEVER PICKED UP ON THE FACT

THIS CHILD HAD AN OVERWHELMING BACTERIAL INFECTION

AT ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER AND NEITHER AT THE AUTOPSY.

I THINK THAT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT,

BECAUSE ONCE I MENTIONED IT IN MY OPENING STATEMENT,

THESE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS, SO TO SPEAK,

HAD TO SCRAMBLE,

AND THEY KNEW EVERY SIGN AND SYMPTOM THIS CHILD HAD

WAS SEPSIS.

SO THEY HAD TO COME IN THE COURTROOM,

AND THEY HAD TO ADMIT THE CHILD HAD SEPSIS.

I THINK THOSE WHO OBSERVED THE, UH, EVENT

OF THIS UNFORTUNATE DISEASE

WILL BRING THEIR OWN BIAS TO THE FACTS.

UH, BUT THE BIOLOGY OF THE DISEASE

UH, IS BASED ON FACTUAL INFORMATION.

SO WE HAVE INFORMATION

ABOUT WHAT THE CULTURE OF THE BLOOD REVEALED,

AND IT REVEALED A PNEUMOCOCCUS.

WE HAVE INFORMATION THAT THE BONE MARROW

WAS SUPPRESSED, AND IT COULD BE ONLY SUPPRESSED

BY OVERWHELMING SEPSIS.

ONCE THE ALLEGATION OF ABUSE

OR POSSIBILITY OF ABUSE COMES IN,

IT KIND OF WHITES OUT EVERYTHING ELSE,

AND I THINK THAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE.

IT HAPPENS FREQUENTLY.

BOOK: DR. EDGE WAS THE, I GUESS,

ESSENTIALLY THE TREATING PHYSICIAN

AT ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER.

THE DOCTORS FOR WHATEVER REASON

SUSPECTED THAT ABUSE WAS GOING ON AT THIS POINT,

AND MATTHEW WAS SENT FOR A CT SCAN.

LEESTMA: IN LOOKING AT THE CT IMAGES

OF THIS CHILD'S BRAIN,

THERE IS A GAP, AN INCH, MAYBE,

BETWEEN THE SURFACE OF THE BRAIN

AND THE UNDERSURFACE OF THE SKULL.

AND THAT IS MODERATELY BLACK APPEARING THERE.

THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT THAT IS MORE WATER

THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

IF YOU HAVE A--A COLLECTION OF BLOOD LIKE A STROKE

OR A SUBDURAL HEMATOMA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,

IT'S GOING TO BE WHITE FOR A WHILE.

AS IT AGES AND IS HEALED AND PROCESSED,

IT BECOMES GRAYER AND GRAYER AND GRAYER,

AND IT WAS THOSE THINGS THAT ONE COULD SEE

ON THE CT SCANS OF THIS CHILD.

THE CAT SCAN OF THIS CHILD'S HEAD,

THE REPORT, WHICH IS DATED SEPTEMBER 21, 2008,

ORDERED BY DR. EDGE,

DESCRIBES IT AS "LARGE BILATERAL EXTRAAXIAL FLUID COLLECTIONS."

NO MENTION OF BLEEDING, BLOOD, SUBDURAL HEMATOMA

ON THIS REPORT.

THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF THE REPORT.

IT DID NOT ACTUALLY SAY ON THERE

THAT THERE WAS A SUBDURAL HEMATOMA.

HOWEVER, THE DOCTORS THAT TESTIFIED,

THAT'S WHAT THEY INTERPRETED THE REPORT TO MEAN,

ALTHOUGH IT DID NOT SPECIFICALLY SAY

"SUBDURAL HEMATOMAS."

WE HAVE AN AUTOPSY NOW.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THE MICROSCOPIC TISSUE SLIDES

OF THAT AUTOPSY,

AND WHAT WE SEE IS A RATHER REMARKABLE PICTURE

OF THE DURA, WHICH IS

THE KIND OF FIBROUS COVERING OF THE BRAIN,

AND, UH, BELOW THAT AT LEAST 3, 4 LAYERS

OF AREAS IN WHICH HEMORRHAGE HAS OCCURRED,

HEALING HAS OCCURRED,

ANOTHER EPISODE OF HEMORRHAGE WITH HEALING,

ANOTHER AND ANOTHER.

IT INDICATES THAT THERE ARE MORE CHRONIC PROCESSES

GOING ON, PROBABLY MANY WEEKS,

MAYBE EVEN MANY MONTHS OLD.

I CAN'T SAY WHAT HAPPENED. I WASN'T THERE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THE OLDER HEAD INJURY GOT THERE.

I DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE KNOWS

HOW THE OLDER HEAD INJURY GOT THERE.

ONE OF THE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE TO ASK,

IT DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT QUICKLY.

COULD HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT WAS THE BIRTH LIKE?

THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT BIRTH.

OKAY, WE LOOK INTO THE MEDICAL RECORD.

UH, BORN EARLY, ONE OF TWINS.

SOME DIFFICULTIES SURROUNDING THE BIRTH--

TOXEMIA, UH, BACTERIAL INFECTION IN THE MOTHER,

MEMBRANES WERE BROKEN EARLY,

OF LOT OF FORCEPS USED AND THINGS,

TRYING TO EXTRACT THE CHILDREN,

A LONG DELIVERY, ET CETERA, ET--

THE LIST GOES ON, MEANING THIS POOR KID,

UH, IS--IS STRUGGLING.

BIRTH IS HARD ENOUGH ANYWAY,

LET ALONE WHEN YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE PARTICULAR PROBLEMS,

WHICH CAN START BLEEDING GOING IN THE BRAIN

THAT MAYBE DOESN'T SHOW ITSELF FOR SEVERAL MONTHS,

AND I THINK THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CHILD.

STARTING WITH DR. EDGE,

HE ESSENTIALLY GOES IN THERE WITH A THEORY,

A CONCLUSION, OKAY?

BASED ON NOTHING,

COMMUNICATED IN VERY, VERY HIGHLY EMOTIONAL TERMS

TO SERGEANT FOUNTAIN,

WHO COMMUNICATES IT TO DETECTIVE MASON,

AND WE'RE OFF AND RUNNING WITH NOTHING BUT A CONCLUSION.

AND BECAUSE ADRIAN THOMAS ADOPTS

SERGEANT MASON'S, YOU KNOW, SCENARIO...

[PAPER SLAPS]

AND THROWS A NOTEBOOK ON THE FLOOR...

THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES. I'M SORRY.

BOOK: WHAT WE HAVE IN THIS CASE

IS MR. THOMAS THROWING

A LITTLE 4-MONTH-OLD BABY ONTO A BED REPEATEDLY.

THIS IS NOT AN INNOCUOUS ACT.

THIS IN AND OF ITSELF IS ENOUGH

TO CAUSE THESE BILATERAL SUBDURAL HEMATOMAS.

EFFMAN: IT--IT'S TOO BAD THE POLICE DIDN'T TAKE A STEP BACK

NOW THAT THEY KNEW THERE WAS NO FRACTURE.

"LET'S TAKE A STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THE WHOLE SITUATION.

"LET'S SEE WHAT REALLY IS GOING ON

BEFORE WE RUSH TO JUDGMENT ABOUT ADRIAN."

IT'S TOO BAD THAT DIDN'T TAKE PLACE.

THOMAS: [CRYING] THIS IS MESSED UP, MAN.

IT'S MESSED UP.

[SOBBING]

MASON: WE'LL SAY--WE'LL SAY A PRAYER FOR MATTHEW, ALL RIGHT?

WE'LL SAY A PRAYER. COME HERE.

LORD, PLEASE HELP US

AT THIS TIME.

LITTLE 4-MONTH-OLD BABY MATTHEW

IS LYING IN THE ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER

WITH SEVERE INJURIES,

AND WE CALL UPON YOU

TO HELP US WITH A MIRACLE

AND HELP BABY MATTHEW GET THROUGH THESE TOUGH TIMES.

PRAYING FOR YOU LAST NIGHT, MAN.

I'M STILL PRAYING FOR YOU RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW?

[THOMAS SOBBING]

I SWEAR TO GOD.

MASON: WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU DIDN'T DO NOTHING?

WHAT'D YOU SAY?

I DIDN'T HARM HIM.

MASON: ADRIAN, LOOK AT ME.

ADRIAN.

LOOK AT ME, MAN. I AIN'T COMING AFTER YOU.

I'M HERE TO HELP YOU, ADRIAN.

I'M HERE TO HELP YOU, MAN.

IT'S GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT, MAN.

IT'S GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT.

GONNA HELP YOU GET THROUGH THIS, YOU HEAR ME?

ALL RIGHT? YOU NEED TO GET THIS OFF YOUR CHEST.

ALL RIGHT?

I GOT YOU. I BROUGHT YOU TO THE HOSPITAL LAST NIGHT,

AND I TRIED TO GET YOU SOME HELP, ALL RIGHT?

I BROUGHT YOU BACK DOWN HERE TO TALK TO ME, ALL RIGHT?

I NEED YOU TO TELL ME HOW EVERYTHING HAPPENED, OKAY?

BECAUSE I NEED TO KNOW THE TRUTH

IN ORDER TO GET YOU THE HELP THAT YOU NEED, YOU HEAR ME?

THOMAS: YEAH.

MASON: YOU GOT 6 OTHER KIDS TO CARE ABOUT, ALL RIGHT?

YOU GOT TO MAKE SURE NOTHING LIKE THIS

EVER HAPPENS AGAIN. YOU HEAR ME, ADRIAN?

THOMAS: I AIN'T SURE, MAN. I SWEAR TO GOD, MAN.

I SWEAR TO GOD.

MASON: I NEED YOU TO START FROM THE BEGINNING

AND TELL ME EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, YOU HEAR ME, MAN?

- YEAH. - ADRIAN, LOOK AT ME.

MASON: LOOK ME IN THE EYES, MAN.

NEED YOU TO LOOK ME IN THE EYES, ADRIAN.

- YEAH. - LOOK ME IN THE EYES.

PROMISE ME YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME THE TRUTH RIGHT NOW.

THOMAS: I'LL TELL YOU THE TRUTH, MAN.

I'LL TELL YOU THE TRUTH, MAN.

MASON: I WANT TO HEAR WHAT HAPPENED, ADRIAN.

THOMAS: OKAY. [SNIFFLES]

MASON: GO AHEAD. TELL ME WHAT YOU DID.

THOMAS: I'M GOING TO DO THIS.

- HERE. - OKAY.

MASON: THIS IS THE CRIB RIGHT HERE, OKAY?

THOMAS: I PICKED-- I PICKED HIM UP LIKE THIS,

AND--AND LAID HIM DOWN,

AND, UH, ONE OF MY OTHER KIDS SCREAMED,

SO I ACCIDENTALLY BUMPED HIS HEAD,

LIKE I SAID, THE SIDE-- THE BACKSIDE OF HIS HEAD,

AND, UH, I PICKED HIM UP,

AND I JUST COMFORT HIM,

AND I WENT TO, YOU KNOW, SEE WHAT WAS WRONG AT THE--

MASON: LAST WEEKEND WHEN YOU BUMPED HIS HEAD ON THE CRIB,

THAT IS NOT THE LAST TIME

THAT YOU MAY HAVE USED A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH FORCE

WITH MATTHEW IN YOUR ARMS.

SOMETHING HAPPENED BETWEEN LAST WEEKEND

AND YE--AND YESTERDAY WHEN HE WAS BROUGHT TO THE HOSPITAL,

AND I NEED YOU TO TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED.

DO YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR SON'S LIFE, MAN?

THOMAS: YEAH, MAN.

MASON: WELL, WHY ARE YOU HOLDING BACK ON ME?

WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF, HUH?

THOMAS: I'M AFRAID--

I'M NOT AFRAID OF THAT, I'M JUST, YOU KNOW...

MASON: YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO TELL ME, ALL RIGHT?

THOMAS: I'M TRYING TO THINK.

MASON: TAKE A MINUTE AND THINK.

THOMAS: I'M TRYING TO THINK, MAN.

MASON: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I NEED TO GET THIS INFORMATION

TO THE DOCTORS IN THE HOSPITAL.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, ALL RIGHT?

YOU AIN'T GOT A LOT OF TIME, MAN.

YOU AIN'T GOT A LOT OF TIME.

THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE YOUR SON'S LIFE RIGHT NOW.

EFFMAN: IN THEIR DESPERATE MEASURES TO GET A STATEMENT,

AND THEY RESORT TO SO MANY OFFENSIVE LIES.

YOU KNOW, TELLING HIM THINGS LIKE,

"YOU KNOW, THE DOCTORS ARE PUSHING US FOR INFORMATION.

DO YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR SON'S LIFE?"

BASICALLY TELLING HIM ANYTHING HE COULD DO OR SAY

WOULD SAVE HIS SON'S LIFE

AT A TIME WHEN THEY KNOW THE BABY'S ALREADY GOING TO DIE.

THERE'S NO HOPE FOR THIS CHILD TO SURVIVE.

MASON: THESE--THESE DOCTORS ARE GENIUSES, MAN.

THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO KEEP YOUR SON ALIVE.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT?

DO YOU WANT YOUR SON TO BE ALIVE?

- YEAH, MAN. - ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT, YOU'RE GOING TO HELP KEEP HIM ALIVE?

THOMAS: YEAH, BUT I CAN'T LIE SO I CAN GET--

MASON: I DON'T WANT YOU TO LIE.

I DON'T WANT YOU TO LIE, BUT...

MASON: I KNEW THERE WAS NO CHANCE AT SAVING MATTHEW'S LIFE,

BUT I DIDN'T FEEL BAD ABOUT TELLING ADRIAN THAT.

ULTIMATELY, IT WAS MY GOAL TO GET THE TRUTH OUT OF HIM.

MASON: THERE'S NO EXPLANATION, MAN, ALL RIGHT?

YOU ARE PROVING THE MED--

YOU'RE PROVING THE MEDICAL WORLD WRONG.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

THOMAS: NO, BUT I WAS-- I WAS SLEEPING--

MASON: YOU CAN'T--YOU CAN'T PROVE THE MEDICAL WORLD WRONG.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T DO NOTHING!

MASON: I MEAN, THEY GOT SCIENTIFIC STUDIES...

FROST: THE PROBLEM BECOMES, THOUGH,

WHEN PEOPLE GET SO USED TO LYING,

AFTER A WHILE, THEY DON'T KNOW THE TRUTH.

THAT'S THE... THE VICE OF LYING IS

AFTER A WHILE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHEN YOU'RE TELLING THE TRUTH

AND WHEN YOU'RE NOT.

MASON: DID HE HIT HIS HEAD UP AGAINST THE CRIB?

DID HE HIT HIS HEAD UP AGAINST THE FLOOR?

DID YOU SHAKE HIM LIKE THIS?

BEFORE HE PASSED OUT, DID YOU SHAKE HIM?

IS THAT WHAT CAUSED IT?

THOMAS: NO.

EFFMAN: THEY'RE PLANTING THESE SEEDS OUR HERE,

HOPING THAT SOMETHING WILL CATCH WITH ADRIAN,

AND HE'LL BITE ON SOMETHING.

MASON: I WANT TO FIND THAT MEMORY RIGHT NOW, ADRIAN.

YOU GOT TO FIND THAT MEMORY.

THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR YOUR SON'S LIFE, MAN.

EFFMAN: THEY'RE INVITING HIM TO MAKE SOMETHING UP.

THEY DON'T CARE WHETHER IT'S TRUE OR NOT.

THEY JUST WANT TO HEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR

TO SUPPORT THEIR THEORY THAT ADRIAN HAD DONE SOMETHING WRONG.

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT FINDING OUT THE TRUTH.

MASON: MAYBE HE'S ABLE TO SAVE YOUR SON'S LIFE.

MAYBE YOUR WIFE FORGIVES YOU FOR WHAT HAPPENED.

MAYBE YOUR FAMILY LIVES HAPPILY EVER AFTER,

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? IF YOU CAN'T FIND THAT MEMORY

AND THOSE DOCTORS CAN'T SAVE YOUR SON'S LIFE,

THEN WHAT KIND OF FUTURE YOU GOING TO HAVE?

AM I TALKING TO YOU LIKE YOU'RE A BAD GUY?

THOMAS: YEAH, MAN.

MASON: I'M SORRY FOR THAT.

I APOLOGIZE, MAN.

THOMAS: I'LL FORGET IT.

MASON: YOU KNOW WHAT?

THOMAS: YOU GOT ME SCARED RIGHT NOW, MAN.

MASON: I'M SORRY, MAN. I DON'T MEAN TO HAVE YOU SCARED.

I APOLOGIZE. LET ME TONE IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT, ALL RIGHT?

THOMAS: YOU GOT ME SCARED.

MASON: YOU KNOW HOW THIS IS HARD FOR YOU?

THIS IS AN EMOTIONAL THING FOR ME,

BECAUSE YOU KNOW WHAT?

I'M PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS.

ALL RIGHT? I GOT KIDS, MAN.

ALL RIGHT? I GOT KIDS.

MASON: I DIDN'T KNOW IF I WAS EVER

GOING TO TO GET HIM TO TELL ME THE TRUTH.

I WAS PREPARED TO JUST KEEP GOING.

AS LONG AS HE WOULD SIT THERE AND TALK TO ME,

I WAS GOING TO TALK TO HIM.

MASON: PEOPLE DON'T HAVE 7 KIDS WITHOUT LOVING KIDS,

ALL RIGHT? I KNOW YOU LOVE YOUR KIDS.

THOMAS: IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL, MAN.

MASON: I KNOW. I KNOW WHAT YOU DID TO MATTHEW

WAS NOT INTENTIONAL, ALL RIGHT?

BUT I NEED TO KNOW-- I NEED TO KNOW...

THOMAS: I WASN'T--

MASON: IF HE WASN'T HAVING--

IF HE WASN'T HAVING THAT MUCH TROUBLE BREATHING

BEFORE YOU DROPPED HIM IN THE CRIB,

THAT'S SOMETHING THE HOSPITAL NEEDS TO KNOW,

BECAUSE THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS

THAT THEY WANT TO DO TO YOUR SON,

AND IF HE'S GOT PROBLEMS BREATHING, ALL RIGHT?

THEN IT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE DIRECTION THAT THEY TAKE.

ALL RIGHT? SO...

THOMAS: I WAS ASLEEP.

MY WIFE WOKE ME UP IN A PANIC.

I SWEAR TO GOD.

MASON: I'M HOURS INTO THE INTERVIEW,

AND AT THIS POINT, I STILL HAVE NO IDEA

WHAT CAUSED THE INJURY.

MASON: YOU WANT SOMETHING TO DRINK, MAN? YOU STRAIGHT?

THOMAS: I JUST NEED A CIGARETTE, MAN.

MASON: CIGARETTE?

THOMAS: YEAH.

MASON: LET ME SEE IF I CAN YOU A CIGARETTE.

SO THERE WAS A POINT WHEN I LEFT THE ROOM,

AND I CALLED DETECTIVE FOUNTAIN,

AND I ASKED HIM,

"DO YOU THINK THAT MATTHEW COULD HAVE BEEN, UH, INJURED

"LIKE THIS BY WILHAMENA ROLLING OVER ON TOP OF HIM

IN THE--IN THE BED?"

IT DIDN'T HAPPEN FROM SOMEBODY ROLLING ON YOU.

DIDN'T HAPPEN FROM SOMEBODY BUMPING THEIR HEAD.

THAT THIS WAS SOMEBODY SLAMMING SOMEBODY

INTO SOMETHING VERY HARD AND VERY FAST.

[SNIFFS] SO MY ONLY THINKING TO ADAM WAS,

"ADAM, I KNOW YOU'RE EXHAUSTED.

"GET BACK IN THERE.

THERE'S NO WAY THAT'S THE WAY IT HAPPENED."

AND I KNEW THAT IT COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED THAT WAY,

BUT I'M--I'M HOURS INTO THE INTERVIEW,

AND, UH, I'M JUST--

I'M JUST LOOKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE TO TALK TO,

SOMEONE ELSE TO RUN THESE SCENARIOS BY

JUST TO MAKE SURE I'M STILL THINKING ON--

ON, YOU KNOW, THE RIGHT LEVEL.

THOMAS: SORRY TO KEEP BUGGING YOU.

MASON: YOU AIN'T BUGGING ME, MAN.

THAT'S THE LEAST I CAN DO FOR YOU

WHAT YOU'RE GOING THROUGH,

GET YOU A COUPLE OF CIGARETTES.

DAMN, I AIN'T GOT AN ASHTRAY.

HOLD ON. LET ME FIND-- LET ME FIND AN ASHTRAY.

THOMAS: OKAY.

MASON: FOR ME TO TURN INTO THE BAD GUY

AND START YELLING AT HIM,

IT WASN'T A SMART THING FOR ME TO DO AT THAT POINT,

SO THERE CAME A POINT WHEN SERGEANT COLINARY

WAS ACTUALLY NEXT DOOR WATCHING THE MONITOR,

AND, UH, OBSERVING THE INTERVIEW.

I SAID, "GIVE ME A FEW MINUTES,

"AND I WANT YOU TO COME INTO THE OFFICE,

"AND I WANT YOU TO CALL ADRIAN A LIAR.

"I WANT YOU TO YELL AT HIM,

AND I WANT YOU TO CALL HIM A LIAR,"

AND THAT'S WHAT I TOLD HIM.

SO I WENT BACK IN, STARTED GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS AGAIN

WITH THE INTERVIEW.

MASON: I CAN'T PROMISE YOU THAT'S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN,

'CAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

COLINARY: CAN I TALK TO YOU FOR A SECOND?

AND IT WAS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING

FOR SERGEANT COLINARY TO DO.

COLINARY: IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE,

AND I'M TELLING YOU NOW, AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.

YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING MORE WITH THIS, THAT'S FINE.

BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK HE'S A LIAR.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T DO NOTHING.

I SWEAR TO GOD.

COLINARY: DON'T YOU LOOK AT HIM. I'M TELLING YOU,

I THINK YOU'RE A LIAR.

AND YOU GOT TO PROVE IT TO ME.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T DO NOTHING.

I DIDN'T DO NOTHING TO NO BABY.

COLINARY: YOU TOOK THAT BABY AND YOU SLAMMED HIS HEAD.

THOMAS: NO, I DIDN'T. I--I COULDN'T HAVE.

COLINARY: THE DOCTOR SAID THAT THIS INJURY

WAS CAUSED BY A RAPID ACCELERATION,

AND THEN A SUDDEN DECELERATION,

WHICH MEANS JUST LIKE THAT.

THOMAS: I DIDN'T-- I DIDN'T DO NOTHING.

COLINARY: HE THOUGHT THE BABY WAS IN A CAR ACCIDENT.

THAT'S HOW BAD IT WAS.

THOMAS: I SWEAR TO GOD I DIDN'T DO NOTHING TO MY KID.

COLINARY: WELL, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING,

SOMETHING HAPPENED, ALL RIGHT?

AND THE INJURIES ARE NOT CONSISTENT WITH YOUR STORY.

ALL RIGHT? SO I TELL YOU WHAT,

WHY DON'T YOU TALK TO HIM A LITTLE BIT MORE?

I GOT TO GO DOWN AND COOL OFF,

BECAUSE I BEEN WORKING--

I BEEN UP SINCE, LIKE, 8:00 THIS MORNING

DOING THIS ALL DAY LONG,

BACK AND FORTH TO THE HOSPITAL, ALL RIGHT?

AND I KNOW HE-- HE WAS OUT HERE

TILL 3:00 OR 4:00 IN THE MORNING,

SO YOU TALK TO HIM FOR A WHILE, ALL RIGHT?

IF YOU NEED ANYTHING, GIVE ME A CALL, ADAM.

MASON: OKAY.

I CAN TELL YOU WERE LYING TO ME, MAN.

THOMAS: I SWEAR TO GOD, I'M NOT LYING.

I--THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

I DIDN'T DO NOTHING, MAN.

I DID NOT THROW NO BABY, SHOOK NO BABY,

LIKE IT WAS IN A CAR ACCIDENT.

MASON: AFTER HE WALKED OUT, I KIND OF TURNED IT AROUND

AND TRIED TO MAKE ADRIAN FEEL BAD FOR ME,

BECAUSE HE JUST MADE ME LOOK LIKE A FOOL.

MASON: I THOUGHT WE HAD SOMETHING GOING ON HERE.

I THOUGHT WE HAD A LITTLE TRUST RELATIONSHIP GOING ON.

THOMAS: WE DID! 'CAUSE I DIDN'T--

I DIDN'T DO NOTHING!

MASON: TALKED TO THE CHIEF,

AND THE CHIEF WANTED ME TO ARREST YOU.

THE CHIEF WANTED ME TO ARREST YOU,

AND I CONVINCED THE CHIEF

THAT I WAS NOT GOING TO ARREST YOU.

I'M EMBARRASSED THAT YOU GOT ANOTHER DETECTIVE,

WALKING IN HERE AND TELLING ME THAT YOU'RE LYING TO ME

AND EMBARRASSING ME.

THOMAS: I'M NOT!

MASON: I JUST CAME UP WITH THAT AND THOUGHT

THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO GET ADRIAN

TO, YOU KNOW, REALIZE THAT,

I AM ON THE SAME LEVEL AS HIM

AND THAT HE CAN TRUST ME

AND THAT HE CAN TELL ME THE TRUTH,

THAT I'M REALLY, YOU KNOW, BEING--

BEING--TRYING TO BE FAIR WITH HIM,

AND WHEN YOU GOT OTHER COPS COMING IN

AND YELLING AT US LIKE THAT.

MASON: MAYBE ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU JUST TOLD ME

REALLY DID HAPPEN, ALL RIGHT?

- IT DID HAPPEN. - BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

IT'S A LOT WORSE THAT YOU'RE MAKING IT OUT TO BE.

A LOT WORSE, ALL RIGHT?

OFSHE: THEY'RE JUST PLAYING HIM.

THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO GET A--A STORY FROM HIM

THAT IS EVEN WORSE THAN THE STORY

THAT THEY'VE ALREADY GOTTEN.

BECAUSE, FRANKLY, THEY DON'T KNOW

WHY THIS BABY DIED.

MASON: IF YOU ARE SUFFERING DEPRESSION,

AND YOUR MIND IS NOT A STEEL FRAME, ALL RIGHT?

AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO THINK,

"I'M GOING TO HURT MY CHILD."

YOU CAN BE THINKING, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

"I CAN'T TAKE THE PRESSURE ANYMORE.

"IT'S BUILDING, IT'S BUILDING.

"I AIN'T HAD A JOB SINCE FEBRUARY.

"I GOT ALL THESE KIDS CRYING ALL THE TIME.

"MY MOTHER-IN-LAW NAGGING ME,

"AND MY WIFE TELLING ME TO GET A JOB,

"AND THE BABY'S CRYING,

"AND SHE'S OUT THERE COOKING.

"SHE NEED TO COME IN HERE AND SETTLE THIS BABY DOWN.

"I CAN'T DO IT. I CAN'T DO IT!

"HEY, COME ON IN HERE AND SETTLE THIS BABY DOWN,

'CAUSE I CAN'T DO IT!" [THUD]

EFFMAN: AND NONE OF THESE DEMONSTRATIONS OCCURRED

AT THE INITIATIVE OF ADRIAN.

I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE.

THE DEMONSTRATION THAT OCCURRED AT THE END OF THE VIDEO

WAS INITIATED AND DEMONSTRATED BY DETECTIVE MASON.

MASON: SHOW ME HOW YOU THREW THAT BABY ON THE BED.

SHOW ME. ADRIAN, DON'T MESS AROUND.

STAND UP AND SHOW ME HOW YOU THREW THAT BABY

ON THE BED.

ADRIAN.

THOMAS: THAT'S INTENTIONAL

MASON: ADRIAN. YOU DID IT HARDER THAN THAT, ADRIAN.

EFFMAN: HE DIDN'T LIKE ADRIAN'S PERFORMANCE.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE HE DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT,

SO HE HAD HIM DEMONSTRATE AND DO IT AGAIN.

"YOU COULDN'T--IT MUST HAVE BEEN HARDER, ADRIAN.

DO IT OVER AGAIN."

ADRIAN SORT OF AT THE POINT, YOU LOOK AT HIM,

HE'S LIKE A ZOMBIE,

'CAUSE HE KNOWS HE CANNOT LEAVE THAT ROOM

UNTIL HE TELLS THE COP WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR,

AND ONCE HE DOES THAT,

HE CAN GO SEE HIS WIFE AND SEE HIS SON,

BUT UNTIL THAT HAPPENS, HE CAN'T GO ANYWHERE.

MASON: RIGHT HERE.

SO HOLD THAT LIKE YOU HOLD THAT BABY, OKAY?

AND START THINKING ABOUT THEM NEG--

THEM NEGATIVE THINGS THAT YOUR WIFE SAID TO YOU, ALL RIGHT?

START THINKING ABOUT THEM KIDS CRYING

ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT IN YOUR EAR,

YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW NAGGING YOU,

AND YOUR WIFE CALLING YOU A LOSER, ALL RIGHT?

AND LET THAT AGGRESSION BUILD UP,

AND SHOW ME HOW YOU THREW MATTHEW ON YOUR BED, ALL RIGHT?

DON'T TRY TO SUGARCOAT IT

AND MAKE IT LIKE IT WASN'T THAT BAD.

SHOW ME HOW HARD YOU THREW HIM ON THAT BED.

THAT'S HOW YOU DID IT?

THOMAS: IT WAS NEVER-- IT WAS NEVER INTENTIONAL.

MASON: ALL 3 TIMES YOU DID IT JUST LIKE THAT?

THOMAS: YES. I NEVER MEANT TO DO IT, THOUGH.

OFSHE: ONCE YOU'VE FOUND THE BUTTONS

THAT YOU NEED TO PUSH--

"I'M GOING TO ARREST YOUR WIFE.

"I'M GOING TO SEPARATE YOUR CHILDREN FROM THEM.

"I'M GOING TO TAKE CARE OF YOU

IF YOU TELL A STORY THAT SATISFIES ME."

NOW YOU'VE BROKEN THEM.

SO YOU TELL THEM, "I WANT YOU TO STAND UP

AND REENACT THIS,"

WELL, THEY'LL STAND UP AND REENACT IT.

WHY? BECAUSE YOU NOW CONTROL THEM.

MASON: SIT BACK DOWN.

OFSHE: AFTER I ANALYZED THE ADRIAN THOMAS INTERROGATION,

I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION

THAT HIS STATEMENT WAS A COERCED STATEMENT.

THE STORY THAT HE TELLS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED

HAS REALLY GOT TO MATCH THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE OF THE CASE,

WHICH IN THIS CASE, IT SIMPLY DID NOT.

WHAT HE SAID WAS DISCONFIRMED

BY QUITE COMPETENT MEDICAL TESTIMONY.

FIRST-RATE PHYSICIANS LOOKED THAT THIS MATERIAL

AND HAD CONCLUDED THAT THIS CHILD DIED

OF SEPTIC SHOCK.

FALSE CONFESSION IS PROBABLY THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE

OF MISCARRIAGES OF JUSTICE,

AND A BIG PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE JURIES

DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY AN INNOCENT PERSON MIGHT CONFESS.

THIS KIND OF INFORMATION CAN HELP A JURY

GET TO A JUST CONCLUSION.

BOOK: DURING THE COURSE OF THE TRIAL,

THE DEFENSE CALLS A DR. OFSHE TO THE STAND.

WE DID NOT GET ANY PRIOR NOTICE,

WHICH IS MAYBE NOT REQUIRED, BUT PRETTY CUSTOMARY

THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO CALL AN EXPERT LIKE THAT,

YOU'RE GOING TO TO GIVE SOME SORT OF NOTICE,

BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A CONTESTED AREA

IN NEW YORK STATE, THE AREA OF FALSE CONFESSIONS.

WE ASKED FOR WHAT'S KNOWN AS AN OFFER OF PROOF,

UH, AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS,

WE'RE ASKING THE COURT TO DIRECT THE DEFENSE

TO TELL THE COURT WHAT IT IS THIS WITNESS

WILL TESTIFY TO.

WE ALL LIKE OURSELVES,

AND SINCE WE LIKE OURSELVES, WE'RE GOING TO SAY,

"I'M NOT GOING TO--I WOULD NEVER ADMIT

TO SOMETHING I DIDN'T DO,"

SO YOU NEED SOMEONE WHO CAN EXPLAIN IT TO THEM,

THAT PEOPLE DO DO THAT

AND WHY THEY DO IT.

IT'S VERY HARD FOR SOMEONE TO JUST CHUCK THE IDEA

THAT AN INNOCENT PERSON MIGHT BE GOTTEN TO GIVE

A FALSE CONFESSION

IF THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW INTERROGATION WORKS,

AND YOU CAN'T EXPECT SOMEBODY TO UNDERSTAND

HOW INTERROGATION WORKS JUST BY WATCHING AN INTERROGATION.

GLASS: THE CASE WAS FIRST ASSIGNED TO JUDGE JAYCON,

UH, BUT THEN FOR SOME REASON

SHORTLY BEFORE THE ACTUAL TRIAL WAS SCHEDULED,

IT WAS REASSIGNED TO JUDGE CERESIA.

I GUESS THE--THE WILD CARD HERE WAS THAT JUDGE CERESIA

WAS FAIRLY RECENTLY APPOINTED TO THE BENCH.

EFFMAN: JUDGE CERESIA HAS BEEN APPOINTED

IN THE SPRING OF 2009,

AND THIS CASE WAS TO BE HIS SECOND CRIMINAL FELONY TRIAL.

NOW, HE HAD BEEN A LOWER COURT JUDGE,

SO WE KNEW HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH TRIALS,

BUT, UM, NOT TRIALS OF THIS CONSEQUENCE,

UH, WITH THE STAKES INVOLVED IN THIS CASE.

EFFMAN: AT THE TIME OF THE TRIAL,

UH, JUDGE CERESIA WAS UP FOR ELECTION

FOR THE COUNTY COURT POSITION,

WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE BALLOT EARLY NOVEMBER,

SO A COUPLE OF WEEKS--

YOU KNOW, WEEK OR TWO AFTER THE TRIAL WAS OVER,

HE WAS ON THE BALLOT.

I--I DON'T--BUT I DON'T THINK THAT HAD ANY BEARING

ON--ON THIS TRIAL.

THE COURT ULTIMATELY DECIDED THAT THE DEFENSE

HAD NOT CONVINCED HIM THAT THERE SHOULD BE EXPERT TESTIMONY

ON THE ISSUE OF FALSE CONFESSION.

THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THE JURY NEEDED

EXPERT ASSISTANCE IN DETERMINING

AND THAT THEY COULD DO IT ON THEIR OWN.

BEING DENIED THE RIGHT TO CALL DR. OFSHE,

WHO, BY THE WAY, HAS TESTIFIED

HALF A DOZEN TIMES IN NEW YORK STATE,

UH, WAS A SETBACK.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE WERE STILL VERY CONFIDENT

BASED UPON THE MEDICAL EVIDENCE

THAT WE WERE GOING TO WIN.

BUT IT'S OBVIOUSLY A SETBACK.

UH, I FELT, UH... I FELT...

WELL, I WOULDN'T SAY ECSTATIC,

BUT I WAS EXTREMELY HAPPY.

FROST: JUDGE CERESIA ALSO SAID

THAT THERE'S NOT AN ACCEPTED FIELD OF KNOWLEDGE

OF PSYCHOLOGICAL COERCION PRODUCING FALSE CONFESSIONS.

WELL, MY ANSWER TO THAT IS,

THIS TYPE OF INTERROGATION HAS BEEN...

IS THE RESULT OF A SYSTEM THAT WAS DEVISED

APPROXIMATELY 50 YEARS AGO.

BUCKLEY: INTERROGATION IS A PROCESS

THAT IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED

TO DEVELOP AN ADMISSION OF GUILT.

WHEN WE INTERROGATE PEOPLE,

THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB WE HAVE AS INVESTIGATORS

IS TO GIVE THE SUSPECT PSYCHOLOGICAL JUSTIFICATION

FOR THE COMMISSION OF THE CRIME.

FROST: THAT IN AND OF ITSELF IS A SCIENCE,

AND GUESS WHAT? THE OBJECT OF THAT SCIENCE

IS TO GET A CONFESSION

WITHOUT ANY REAL CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER THEY'RE TRUE OR NOT.

WE'VE GOT TO MAKE IT EASY ON THEM.

WE CAN'T SAY TO THEM, "WHAT HAPPENED?

"WHY DID YOU DO IT?

TELL ME ABOUT IT."

THAT REQUIRES TOO MUCH EFFORT ON THEIR PART.

WE NEED TO SUGGEST TO THE SUSPECT

A GOOD REASON AND A BAD REASON

SO THAT WE MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM

TO MAKE THAT FIRST ADMISSION OF GUILT.

ACTOR AS COP: VINNIE DID YOU PLAN THIS THING,

OR WAS IT JUST SPUR OF THE MOMENT?

VINNIE: I DIDN'T PLAN NOTHING.

THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT ALL ALONG.

I'M GLAD TO HEAR THAT,

'CAUSE THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT YOU.

INTERROGATION, WHEN DONE PROPERLY,

IS ABOUT GETTING SOMEONE TO DEMONSTRATE

THAT THEY HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THE CRIME REALLY HAPPENED

AND THEY KNOW DETAILS THAT ARE NOT TOLD TO THEM,

SO THEY'RE NOT CONTAMINATED,

DETAILS THAT ARE NOT EVEN NECESSARILY KNOWN TO THE POLICE.

MASON: KIND OF LIKE, LIKE THIS HIGH,

YOU WERE GOING TO PUT HIM IN AND...

[BINDER THUDS] THAT MAYBE?

OFSHE: AND THEN THERE'S THE IDEA

THAT WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY

THAT PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM,

WHO ARE CHARGED WITH SEEKING AND ADMINISTERING JUSTICE,

SOMETIMES DON'T REALLY SEEM TO CARE VERY MUCH ABOUT IT.

EVERYTHING THAT ADRIAN THOMAS SAID IN THIS CASE

WAS FED TO HIM BY SERGEANT MASON.

EVERYTHING.

BOOK: WILHAMENA HICKS WAS VERY COOPERATIVE

WITH OUR OFFICE

AND WAS ALSO A PRETTY PIVOTAL WITNESS AT THE TRIAL

IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO LAY OUT

THE FAMILY DYNAMICS.

AND IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT,

UH, THE DEFENDANT'S STATE OF MIND,

UM, AFTER LOSING HIS JOB.

EFFMAN: THE POLICE WOULD LIKE YOU TO BELIEVE

THAT THERE WERE THESE ARGUMENTS

BETWEEN HIM AND HIS WIFE.

HE GOT ANGRY, HE'D PICK UP ONLY MATTHEW,

NEVER MALACHI, NOBODY ELSE.

OF COURSE, ALL THE KIDS ARE HOME.

NOBODY SEES ANYTHING.

UH, IT'S A VERY SMALL APARTMENT,

600 OR 700 SQUARE FEET.

NOBODY HEARS ANYTHING.

HIS WIFE NEVER TESTIFIED THAT SHE'D EVER SEEN HIM,

UH, BE ROUGH WITH MATTHEW OR MALACHI.

I THINK THAT'S PRETTY TELLING.

I BELIEVE MISS HICKS AT THE TIME OF THE TRIAL

WAS STILL ATTEMPTING TO HAVE RETURNED TO HER CUSTODY

ALL OF HER CHILDREN WHO HAD BEEN REMOVED FROM THE HOME.

IF SHE WAS TO HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH HIM

OR--OR ASSIST IN HIS DEFENSE,

THAT COULD IMPACT HER ABILITY TO HAVE HER CHILDREN RETURNED.

BOOK: THERE WAS DEFINITELY, UH,

A LONG PERIOD OF TIME WHERE SHE WAS JUST GETTING

VISITATION WITH HER CHILDREN.

THEY WEREN'T LIVING WITH HER ON ANY KIND OF A REGULAR BASIS,

SO I THINK AT THAT POINT IN TIME, IT WAS,

YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT TO HER THAT JUSTICE BE CARRIED OUT,

BUT IT WAS ALSO EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO HER

THAT--THAT HER CHILDREN BE RETURNED HOME TO HER.

THOMAS TOOK THE STAND TODAY.

BRITT GODSHALK JOINS US OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM

WITH THE VERY LATEST DETAILS FOR US.

GOOD EVENING, BRITT.

GODSHALK: HEY, THERE, KATE.

THOMAS TESTIFIED THAT HE MERELY TOOK THE FALL FOR HIS WIFE,

SAYING, "MY WIFE WAS A GOOD WIFE,

AND I DIDN'T WANT HER TO BE ARRESTED."

HE TESTIFIED THAT HIS CONFESSION

WAS A BALD-FACED LIE.

HE WANTED THE DETECTIVE'S QUESTIONING TO BE OVER.

HE WANTED TO SEE HIS WIFE.

HE WANTED TO SEE HIS SON,

WHO WAS THEN GRAVELY ILL AT ALBANY MED,

SO HE SAYS HE TOLD DETECTIVES

HE THREW HIS 4-MONTH-OLD SON DOWN ONTO A BED

3 SEPARATE TIMES.

HE SHOWED TRUE EMOTION IN THE VIDEO,

WHERE IT WAS THE OPPOSITE IN THE COURTROOM.

YOU KNOW, HE HAD HIS NOSE UP IN THE AIR,

AND HE IGNORED ALL THE EVIDENCE AS THEY WERE BEING SHOWN.

ADRIAN'S APPEARANCE, UH, FIRST IN THE VIDEOTAPE

AND THEN ON THE WITNESS STAND,

IT WAS LIKE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

UH, VERY VULNERABLE, UH, IN THE INTERROGATION.

ON THE WITNESS STAND, I...

SOME OF THE JURORS SAID HE APPEARED ARROGANT.

HE DOESN'T HAVE A JOB.

UM, THEY HAD TESTIFIED THAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR A JOB,

AND I'M SITTING THERE, AND I'M A HUMAN RESOURCES MANAGER,

I'M CONSTANTLY LOOKING FOR PEOPLE.

THERE'S JOBS OUT THERE,

AND TO ME HE JUST LOOKED LIKE SOMEBODY WHO WAS JUST LAZY.

MASON: SO HOLD THAT LIKE YOU HOLD THAT BABY, OKAY,

AND START THINKING ABOUT THEM NEG--THEM NEGATIVE THINGS

THAT YOUR WIFE SAID TO YOU, ALL RIGHT?

START THINKING ABOUT THEM KIDS CRYING ALL DAY

AND ALL NIGHT IN YOUR EAR.

YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW NAGGING YOU,

AND YOUR WIFE CALLING YOU A LOSER, ALL RIGHT?

AND LET THAT AGGRESSION BUILD UP

AND SHOW ME HOW YOU THREW MATTHEW ON YOUR BED.

JUROR #2: WHEN YOU HAVE IT ON VIDEO,

YOU ACTUALLY SEE THE EMOTION

AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH

AND HOW THEY'RE, UH, RELIVING IT.

ON THE STAND HE WAS SAYING

THAT WHAT HE SIGNED WAS NOT TRUE,

AND IT WAS TRUE BECAUSE, UM, THE WAY HE ACTED

DURING THE ACTUAL VIDEO IS... WAS HIS REAL BEING.

WELL, THE WHOLE VIDEOTAPE,

ENT--SEEMED TO ME, ENTIRELY THAT THE DETECTIVES

WERE TELLING ADRIAN WHAT ADRIAN DID.

WE SAW THE INTERVIEW.

YES, THEY TOLD THESE LITTLE LIES,

BUT I DON'T THINK IT WAS ANYTHING--

THEY DIDN'T PUT WORDS IN HIS MOUTH.

JUROR #9: I WAS VERY ANGRY AT THE POLICE

AND--AND THEIR TECHNIQUE

THAT THEY USED IN INTERROGATING HIM.

THE LINE, MISREPRESENTING CERTAIN THINGS,

UH, JUST--JUST DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT AT THAT POINT.

THAT WAS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT WAS A CONCERN

IN OUR MIND. HOW WAS THE JURY GOING TO VIEW THIS?

WERE THEY GOING TO THINK

THAT THE POLICE BEING DISHONEST LIKE THIS,

WERE THEY GOING TO MAYBE GIVE LESS CREDIT

TO THE CONFESSION OF ADRIAN THOMAS AFTER THIS?

BUT SOMETIMES THE POLICE NEED TO USE CERTAIN TACTICS.

SOMETIMES THE POLICE NEED TO USE SOME DECEPTION

TO ULTIMATELY GET TO THE TRUTH.

COLINARY: YOU GOT TO PROVE IT TO ME.

HE COULD'VE CONTINUED TO DENY IT.

IF YOU DID NOT HURT THAT BABY,

I MEAN, YOU WOULD GO TO YOUR GRAVE

SAYING, "NO, I DIDN'T."

I THINK AFTER TIME WENT ON,

ADRIAN JUST FINALLY GAVE IN AND SAID, "YEAH."

I'M NOT GOING TO SAY GAVE IN

THAT--THAT HE WAS INNOCENT OF IT.

I THINK HE JUST FINALLY ADMITTED, YOU KNOW,

AFTER SO LONG A TIME--

PROLONGED TIME OF BEING INTERROGATED,

UH, THAT HE JUST FINALLY SAID,

"WELL, YEAH, THIS IS-- THIS IS WHAT I DID."

MASON: WHO COULD HAVE TAKEN THE BABY AND DONE THIS?

JUROR #9: AS I SAID, I DID NOT LIKE THEIR TECHNIQUES,

BUT IF THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES,

UH, AND I GUESS THEY'VE DONE IT FOR A LONG TIME,

AND THAT'S WHAT WORKS,

THEN I GUESS THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT.

AND I'M ALMOST GLAD

I DIDN'T HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO SIT IN THAT DELIBERATION.

GODSHALK: BUT SHE WASN'T IN DELIBERATIONS.

THESE ARE ALTERNATE JURORS,

GOING HOME AFTER SITTING THROUGH WEEKS

OF THE TRIAL OF ADRIAN THOMAS.

HOURS AND HOURS SPENT ISOLATED FROM JURORS,

JUST IN CASE THEY WERE NEEDED TO STEP IN

AND VOTE ON THOMAS' FATE.

I WAS DEFINITELY LEANING TOWARDS, UH, NOT GUILTY.

MALE REPORTER: HOW COME?

UM, THERE WAS DEFINITELY TOO MUCH REASONABLE DOUBT.

I WAS TOTALLY GOING FOR NOT GUILTY,

ONLY BECAUSE THERE WAS ENOUGH REASONABLE DOUBT.

GODSHALK: DEFENSE, USING MEDICAL EXPERT

AFTER MEDICAL EXPERT

TO CONVINCE THE JURY TO BLAME INFECTION,

NOT THE DEFENDANT.

THAT ALSO WAS PRETTY STRONG EVIDENCE

FOR ME AS WELL, SHOWING HOW INFECTED,

UM, THE BABY ACTUALLY WAS WITH THE BACTERIA.

FROST: THE DEFENSE TABLE IS--IS FARTHER FROM THE JURY

THAN THE PROSECUTION TABLE,

AND IT WAS INGRID, ADRIAN, AND ME.

I THOUGHT SHE SAID "NOT GUILTY."

SHE SAID IT VERY...SOFTLY.

AND THEN SOMEBODY SAID, "GUILTY."

AND I SAID, I SAID,

"OH, MY GOD. I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

[SOBBING]

GODSHALK: ADRIAN THOMAS' MOTHER INCONSOLABLE

AS THE VERDICT WAS READ.

THE JURY FINDING THAT HER SON'S ACTIONS

WERE A CAUSE OF HIS BABY'S DEATH.

MY SON IS INNOCENT!

HE'S AN INNOCENT BOY! YOU HEAR ME?

GODSHALK: THE JURY DETERMINED THE BABY DIED

AT THE HANDS OF ITS FATHER,

SOMETHING THE PROSECUTION'S MEDICAL EXPERTS

FROM ALBANY MED TESTIFIED TO.

PERHAPS IT WAS THE DRAMATICS THAT CONVINCED THE JURY,

THE DEFENSE CRYING FOUL.

THINK WE HAD A BUNCH OF WOODEN HEADS

AND--AND STONE HEARTS ON THAT JURY.

IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

WE HAD THE NAKED OPINION OF TWO--

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED,

TWO VERY RASH PHYSICIANS, SO-CALLED,

AT THE ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER HOSPITAL.

BOOK: HE KILLED HIS SON.

HE KILLED HIS SON, BECAUSE HE WAS SUFFERING

FROM, YOU KNOW, WHAT HE PERCEIVED AS DEPRESSION

AND LOW SELF-ESTEEM FROM NOT HAVING A JOB.

SO INSTEAD OF PROTECTING HIS SON,

HE TOOK THE EVILS OF, YOU KNOW,

WHAT HE PERCEIVED IN HIS WORLD OUT

ON THIS HELPLESS, 4-MONTH-OLD BABY.

[SIGHING]

OFSHE: THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS YOU CAN SAY TO SOMEONE

WHO WOULD SAY, "I WOULD NEVER CONFESS FALSELY,"

GIVEN WHAT THEY DID TO ADRIAN THOMAS OR EVEN WORSE.

ONE OF THE THINGS YOU COULD SAY IS,

"YOU DON'T KNOW THAT.

"MAYBE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA

"OF WHAT INTERROGATION IS REALLY LIKE,

AND HOW YOU WOULD BEHAVE."

EFFMAN: I WISH WE COULD'VE PRESENTED HIS TESTIMONY

AND LET THE JURY DECIDE

WHETHER DR. OFSHE HAD THINGS TO ADD TO THE CASE OR NOT.

WE'LL NEVER KNOW HOW THAT MIGHT HAVE IMPACTED THEM

DURING THEIR-- THEIR, UH, DELIBERATIONS

BECAUSE HE WASN'T ALLOWED TO TESTIFY.

WE SAW THE VIDEO, AND THAT'S--THAT'S WHAT WE SAW,

AND THEN FOR SOMEBODY TO COME IN AND REFUTE IT,

I--THAT'S--THAT'S A-- THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

I REALLY, I DON'T KNOW.

UH, I THINK THAT WOULD'VE BEEN VERY INSULTING TO US

BECAUSE WE SAW THE VIDEO.

YOU KNOW, WE SAW WHAT WE SAW,

REGARDLESS OF WHAT THIS EXPERT IS TELLING US,

HE JUST--YOU COULD JUST TELL HE WAS GUILTY.

FROST: THEY DON'T REALIZE THIS COULD BE MY SON.

THIS COULD BE MY BROTHER.

THIS COULD BE ME.

YOU WANT TO CONVICT SOMEONE ON IMPRESSIONS,

HUNCHES, EMOTIONS?

THEN THERE'S NOTHING A LAWYER CAN DO TO STOP YOU.

NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE EVIDENCE.

THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.

IT OVERTOOK MY LIFE FOR A MONTH.

I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING ELSE.

COULDN'T PLAY MY GOLF. [LAUGHS] NO.

UH, I HAD THE--TO GO TO COURT EVERY DAY,

SO IT--IT OVERTOOK MY LIFE.

FROST: LET'S SAY YOU HAD TO HAVE A LEG AMPUTATED.

YOU WOULD WANT TO BE MORALLY CONVINCED

THAT THAT WAS NECESSARY TO SAVE YOUR LIFE.

THAT'S HOW SURE YOU HAVE TO BE.

AND IF YOU HAD A REASONABLE DOUBT,

YOU WOULDN'T DO IT, OKAY?

WELL, THAT'S THE TYPE OF STANDARD

YOU GOT TO APPLY HERE.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE 100%,

BUT YOU'VE GOT TO BE CLOSE TO THAT 100%

TO FIND HIM GUILTY,

AND I WAS CLOSE ENOUGH TO THAT 100%.

IS THERE ANY LITTLE DOUBT?

WELL, THERE'S ALWAYS JUST THAT LITTLE BIT OF DOUBT,

BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH.

IT WAS NOT ENOUGH. WE HAD TO CONVICT HIM.

THOMAS: I FEEL PEOPLE WAS DEAD WRONG.

THEY'RE WRONG ABOUT JUDGMENT.

THEY'RE WRONG ABOUT THEIR VIEWS.

IT'S EASY TO BE TRICKED.

IT'S EASY TO SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH A POLICE OFFICER.

IF YOU'RE A PERSON WHO DON'T COMMIT CRIMES,

AND YOU'RE AN HONEST PERSON,

YOU SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH THEM.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE?

NOTHING.

I'M VERY, VERY ANGRY.

UM, NOT JUST OF MYSELF

FOR REPEATING FROM SOMEBODY ELSE'S MOUTH,

BUT I'M MAD AT-- AT DETECTIVE MASON.

I'M MAD AT FOUNTAIN.

I'M MAD AT THE OTHER OFFICER THAT CAME IN.

I'M MAD AT THOSE 3,

BECAUSE THEY KEPT PRESSURING ME

TO GO IN AND LIE.

WHEN YOU'VE BEEN BOMBARDED HOURS--

WE'RE NOT TALKING 15, 20 MINUTES--

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HOURS,

WITH QUESTIONS BACK-TO-BACK,

YOU KNOW IT'S NOT THE TRUTH.

I KNOW IT'S NOT THE TRUTH.

SO I'M GOING TO REPEAT WHAT YOU SAYING BACK TO YOU.

THEREFORE, IF YOU KEEP REPEATEDLY TELLING ME

I'M NOT GOING TO BE ARRESTED,

I'M GOING HOME TONIGHT, OVER AND OVER,

I FIGURE, HEY, WELL, LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH

SO I CAN GO AND GO ABOUT MY BUSINESS

AND GO SEE MY SON.

LATER ON, NOT WHILE I'M SAYING IT,

BUT LATER ON, I WAS THINKING

ABOUT, "OKAY, WELL, BOY, I JUST SAT HERE AND LIED,

"SAYING I DID SOMETHING TO MY SON

WHEN I DIDN'T DO NOTHING."

AND THEN I STARTED TO THINK,

HOW WOULD THIS SOUND, UH, TO--TO MY WIFE,

MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY.

HOW WOULD THIS SOUND TO MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY,

OF ME STATING SUCH A HORRIBLE THING,

UH, AS HURTING MY OWN CHILD?

IT'S A--IT'S A TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCE.

UH, IT'S NOTHING THAT I EVER EXPERIENCED IN MY LIFE.

WHY--WHY LIE TO DO YOUR JOB?

THAT WOULD BE THE QUESTION.

WHY--WHY WOULD YOU HAVE TO LIE TO DO YOUR JOB?

NO, I DIDN'T KILL MY SON.

NO, I DIDN'T DO THOSE THINGS THAT WAS STATED,

BUT, YES, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO MY SON.

WHEN I WAS TELLING,

SITTING DOWN WITH THE POLICE THAT NIGHT,

IN THAT--IN THE, UM, POLICE STATION.

THAT IS THE TRUTH.

THAT IS THE REAL TRUTH.