Scary Stories (2018) - full transcript

- Zach? Same place.
- Ah, got ya.

- Great.

Yeah, is that okay?

Okay.

- Let me tune up real quick,

make sure it's good. - Sure.

- When I was a kid, I loved
monsters.

- My mom always let me
watch monster movies.

Of course, when I saw those
books, I had never seen

a children's book
with drawings like that.

I wouldn't be writing monster
songs and creepy songs



about death if it
wasn't for books

like Scary Stories to
Tell In the Dark

and the things that
I enjoyed as a kid

that influenced me
and got me excited

about songs about death.

♪ Don't ever laugh
as a hearse goes by ♪

♪ For you may
be the next to die ♪

Well that first line
obviously is just saying

that we're all gonna die
and death is what we're all

waiting for, death is
what we want.

We just don't want to get
there sooner than we have to.

♪ The worms play
Pinochle on your snout ♪

♪ They eat your eyes,
they eat your nose ♪

♪ They eat the jelly
between your toes ♪



Those lines, I think those
lines are in every rendition

of the hearse song.

I think that was
one no matter who's,

'cause it's changed so much
and everyone has their own

version of it and you go
to summer camp and kids

make up new lyrics for it,
but they pretty much all

have that verse in
it and Pinochle,

I don't even know
how to play that.

I don't know if I
know what it is.

It's a card game?

♪ And that is the end of a
perfect day ♪

It ends on a really happy
note, so death doesn't have to

be really a bad thing,
it doesn't have to be.

It's natural and it's
good and at the end,

we decay in our beautiful
bodies and beautiful faces,

start to droop and
our eyes fall out

and our chests cave in and
the worms invite their friends

to come party inside our bodies.

It's a good thing,
it's a good thing.

We should teach our
children it's a good thing.

♪ Don't ever laugh as
the hearse goes by ♪

♪ For you may be
the next to die ♪

♪ They'll wrap you up
in a big white sheet ♪

♪ From your head
down to your feet ♪

♪ They put you in a big
black box and cover you up ♪

♪ With dirt and rocks and all
goes well for about a week ♪

♪ And then your coffin
begins to leak ♪

♪ And the worms crawl in,
the worms crawl out ♪

♪ The worms play
Pinochle on your snout ♪

♪ They eat your eyes,
they eat your nose ♪

♪ They eat the jelly
between your toes ♪

♪ They invite their friends
and their friends to ♪

♪ They all come down
to chew on you ♪

♪ And this is
what it is to die ♪

♪ I hope you had a
nice goodbye ♪

♪ Did you ever think
as a hearse goes by ♪

♪ That you may be
the next to die ♪

♪ And your eyes fall out
and your death decay ♪

♪ And that is the end of a
perfect day ♪

- It'll resonate with you
on one level as a young kid

and then when you go back
and revisit those Stories

as an adult, you appreciate
totally different things

that you never noticed
when you were young.

- Every kid from the '80s
and '90s knew these stories.

Ever sleepover we would
tell these stories,

long car trips, recess.

- You had to sign up a
couple weeks in advance

if you wanted to get them.

- I know it's the first
place that I always shot to

when I went to the library,
was to look for these books

on the shelves and every
single copy looked like

it has been worn out.

- The Scary Stories
book is my childhood,

a very important
part of my childhood.

- They still have power
now to adults I think,

but to a kid they're
just this perfect blend

of frightening and mysterious

and a little bit
beautiful, I think.

- I kinda felt like I had
discovered something amazing

and I had to share
that with everybody.

- Scary Stories to Tell in
the Dark were a collection

of three books that my
dad wrote in the 1980s

and early 1990s, emerged out
of his interest in folklore,

folk tales, folk humor.

His efforts to capture that
tradition in the United States

and around the world for kids
and now you have a generation

of kids that grew up with
these books who are now

themselves adults and parents.

- Don't be scared!

I'm the super sweet monster
with the super sweet

new cereal, Count Chocula!

- Careful, he's the super sweet
new cereal, Franken Berry.

- Yuck!
- Creepy Crawlers

Thingmaker II,
an electrical toy.

- It's disgusting!
- Creepy Crawlers

Thingmaker II.

- Has already received
enough U.S. aid.

Parents and teachers in a
Seattle suburb will vote

next week on a plan
to ban three books

from an elementary
school library.

Those who want to
get rid of the books

say they're just too
gruesome for young readers.

More from Susanna Frame.

- I was upset by the graphic
illustrations

and violent stories.
- Debate broke out here

over death, the devil, and
dismemberment,

all topics stemming from
three thin books of folklore

called the Scary Stories
by Alvin Schwartz.

- And sure, they're
gonna be afraid of fires

and drowning and strangers,
but why do they have to live

with this fear that
somebody's gonna chop 'em up

and eat them?

My name is Sandy Vrabel
and I am a retired

grandmother and mother.

I was PTA president
at that time.

How they were
brought to my attention

was I had several
calls from parents.

One of my neighbors,
her son had brought home

one of the Scary Stories
and she said

he was being very secretive,
and he was in the third grade

and she said, "Normally,
he didn't have a problem

"showing me his backpack,
but that day he seemed

"very mysterious, and later on
when I went to say goodnight,

"he was hiding under the
covers with a flashlight."

She asked him what he was
looking at and he tried

to hide the book, so that
gave me an incentive then

to definitely go talk
to the librarian.

So she got defensive
and said I needed

to go discuss it
with the principal.

He said to me, "Well, if you
are really concerned about this

"then what you may want to
do is challenge the books."

And then of course, it
hit the Seattle media

and then it just escalated
from there and I thought

oh my gosh,
this is out of control.

- Alvin was thrilled
at the publicity he got

from his books being
banned in some places.

He just thought that was
wonderful so.

Alvin had a number of different
jobs with organizations,

communications director,
editor, he tried a number

of different kinds of places.
- Then he became

a reporter, and I think was
the formative experience

as an adult in terms of
his professional identity.

He had the instincts,
he had the skills,

and the experiences of a
really, very good journalist.

- It think he loved
reporting, inquiry, you know?

It was all about finding the
answer to a question he had,

which was what makes this
tick, why is this interesting?

And he was a bulldog.

He really knew how to do
research.

- My name is
William Simmons Tyler.

I was born in Bangor,
Maine January 27, 1900.

- What I am
trying to do, I'm a writer

and I've written about 25 books.

I'm very interesting in
folklore and folk life

and what this book is
is a book on growing up

a long time ago.

Did you have any
children at all?

That's funny.

I never heard that before.

Where did you learn that?

- Well, it's.
- You just carried it

around with you?

- I do remember falling asleep
to the sound of him typing

on a manual typewriter
in the next room.

- You could imagine this
progression of the seasons

cinematically from spring,
to summer, to fall,

to winter, and the flowers
blooming, the leaves turning

and falling, the snow and my
dad, it just was a constant.

You could always just see
him in there working away.

My dad was writing
other books at the time.

He lived through his
advances on books,

so he really needed to have
a steady flow of projects

and I think that indicates
that he himself

and his publishers and agent,
they didn't really realize,

which I think is often
true with books,

is you can't predict which
books are gonna be successful

and which aren't.

He didn't have a clear
sense for many years

that these were gonna
have the effect

that they did.
- We really didn't

have very much money,
so it was kind of touch

and go for a while there.

- In his lifetime as an author,

he wrote, over a 30-year
period, he wrote over 50 books.

So there were a lot of books.

Some were successful, some
weren't and these he wrote

in the last 10 years
of his life and I think

he didn't actually live to
see most of the success.

When I was little and my dad
was really just starting out

as a book writer and he
was writing these books

about, more for adults
about how to raise children,

is really about how he
trained himself or tried

to train himself to be a father,

growing up in an environment
where his parents

were just literally the worst
role model.

I mean, he really
didn't know anything

and it's interesting
that he would then

pose as an expert
in these books.

So this is one that I just
pulled out.

That's when I was
about six years old

and, or five years old
and he was probably 35.

He took us out there one
day and he makes it clear

in more than one book that
he hated stuff like fishing,

didn't really know
anything about it,

between this was an
example of an activity

that one could do
with your children,

and so he took me
and my brother.

That's my brother,
he's two years older

and that's me, and you can
see the few little sunfish

that my brother caught
and he's holding our hand.

Anyway, that was a photo
that I've had on my desk

a lot of my adult life.

And then this is a photo of,
he only met my oldest son,

his first grandchild once,
and this was around Christmas

of 1991, so right
around the time

of this controversy at
Kirkland and he had been going

through chemotherapy for
lymphoma, which is why

he's totally bald, but
had been declared cured.

So he's there with my
brother holding Daniel.

I had friends whose parents
were more conventional

and successful professionally
and had more money,

so they were doctors or
professors and it was easier

as a kid to assess what that
meant in terms of status

than it was when I had
to say my father wrote

these weird books, and
they all seemed odd to me.

None of them were books I
really would have read myself.

This photo is one that
I had for many years.

It's from 1986.

It's actually, he's there
the same age that I am now.

I don't know if you see a
resemblance or not.

So, and at the time,
again, as I said,

at the time I was 29 and I
was pretty estranged from him.

I was about to get
married, a year later

I would get married, but he
had to have this photo taken

for professional reasons,
and he's there,

he's actually leaning
against the wall

of the Firestone Library

and his inscription was, "To
Peter from his distant dad,"

which is basically his
commentary on our relationship.

- Okay kids,

let's quiet down now,
quiet down.

So this is a song that I
think you've all heard before.

It is one of my favorites,

especially around
this time of year.

♪ There was an old woman,
all skin and bones ♪

♪ Ooh

- Not bad, but let's
pay attention to the melody.

♪ Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh

♪ There was an old woman,
all skin and bones, ooh ♪

♪ She lived down by the
old graveyard, ooh ♪

- If you write scary books,
they expect you to have fangs

or wear a cape or something,
and then I walk out.

I'm this old guy, and it's
disappointing to them, I think.

And I've gotten to know
a lot of horror writers

and my experience is that
they're all pretty quiet,

normal people,
they just like to write,

like to make up stories.

- For me, the '80s and the '90s,

that was a golden age of
children's books

and particularly
children's horror,

then along came Scary
Stories to Tell in the Dark

and kids just couldn't seem to
get enough.

Scary Stories to
Tell in the Dark,

that's the gold standard.

- We were even before Goosebumps

when we started writing
the Adventures of Bailey

School Kids' books, they
were pretty uncharted

territory if you would,
especially for the chapter book

level that we were writing for.

Marcia was a teacher
and I was a librarian,

and we felt like if anybody
is safe presenting this sort

of material to children,
a teacher and a librarian

would protect children from
anything that would be too scary

or too horrifying, so they
felt pretty comfortable

launching their first
scary chapter book series

with a teacher and a librarian.

- Think about the setting.

Most kids will say
haunted house, graveyard,

but the most scary settings
are those that are normal

settings like a swimming
pool, an amusement park,

something that is familiar
that somehow turns scary

and that really gets them
thinking about setting

and I think it really
enhances their ability

to appreciate literature,

and that's what it's all about.

- People call me
Stephen King for kids

and actually,
I'm very flattered by that.

Last year at the Edgar
Awards in New York,

there he was across the room,

so this is my chance after
30 years and we went over

and introduced ourselves
and introduced our wives

and I said, "Steve, you
know, I was once called

"a training bra for you."

And he said, "Yes, I know

Well, part of
Alvin Schwartz's brilliance

was that he took all
these old folk legends,

and myths, and old stories and
made them readable for kids.

He used what the stories
were, but he was able to write

in a way that really
related to kids,

and I think that's his
particular genius.

- It was October of
1994, Halloween season.

I had made a display of all
the great Halloween stories

for children to check out.

The books were
flying off the shelves.

Children love Halloween season
because of the great books.

One day, the superintendent
of my elementary school

arrived with Scary Stories
to Tell in the Dark

under his arm.

He said, "Miriam, I want
you to take this book

"off the shelf."

Well, I was really shocked.

Why would you want to take
this book off the shelf?

He said, "A mother complained."

He said, "She thinks
this isn't appropriate

"for elementary school kids."

I said, "Have you read it?"

He said, "No, I didn't read it."

He said, "You got 10,000
books in this library.

"Just do this with me."

And I said, "Well, I don't
think I'm gonna do that.

"What I'm gonna do is this,
I'm gonna check the book out

"to you and I am
going to read it myself.

"We'll just give ourselves
a little time to read it."

I thought well, what this
was doing was giving me time

to check up on what
I needed to do

because this was the
first real incident

that I had ever had as a
librarian

that might end up at
the school board.

- I haven't really looked
at these books since then.

Just looking back at these
pictures makes me remember

why I think they're
just so creepy.

Yeah, I mean, , this story,
Harold,

I remember that one.

The illustrations are
probably, like I said,

the most frightening
part of these.

Uh, yeah.

- Alvin always had the final
say with his publishers

as to who would illustrate
any book he wrote,

so he was presented
by his publisher

with some work that
Stephen Gammell had done

and he really was very
impressed with that

and he wanted Stephen
Gammell to illustrate

his Scary Stories books and
a really, really big part

of the success of those
books were the illustrations.

- This is a series of
books that opens

with an image of a
severed head hanging

off of a clothesline and
all of this stark black

and white Halloween-ish, clouds
on a gray October day vibe

that really stuck in your head.

Everybody remembers the
illustrations

just as well as they
remember the stories.

- From a story, I think,
called the Haunted House,

which has a
woman with eye sockets.

- She's missing her eyes,
you just see these deep,

gaping eye sockets, her
teeth all are all rotted

her hair is stringy and
wet and disgusting looking.

- And she's looking
straight at you

and making it so difficult
to read the words

on the other page.

Finally, to get
through that story,

I had to actually put
another book over the picture

so that I could read the
page and finally finish

the story and I found
it to be very,

both beautiful and sad
at the same time.

I've heard it referred
to as the picture

that shat 1,000 pants

- It's this very strange,
pale, bloated figure

with this wide, eerie
smile and beady eyes

and creepy hair and it's
just looking right at you,

and even as an adult, I can't
look at that one for too long.

I'm a little afraid it's going
to move.

- You see the pictures
at the top of the story,

so before you even read
it, it's setting you up

and it's a woman in a
bridle gown curled up

and she has this horrible
expression on her face.

She's like, a skeleton
and her mouth's open

and her eyes are gone.

I think part of it is yes,
a fear of small spaces,

but it's also just that
expression on her face

or what's left of her
face grabs you.

- The illustration that
stands out the most

to me is The Thing.

You see in this shriveled,
zombie-like face,

you see the eyes very clearly
and they're just staring

right at you.
- Stephen Gammell's

illustrations frequently
look directly at the reader,

meeting them eye-to-eye.

That breaking of the fourth
wall is fun in itself,

but one of the things that
makes that extra effective

in horror is because there's
this longstanding idea

in horror that if you can't
see it, it can't see you.

It's the reason why children
pull blankets

over their heads.

When these horrors
are looking at you,

they can see you and they
know that you can see them,

so it makes them more likely
to come out of the book

and get you, or at least
makes it more likely to feel

like they're going to,
which is important

when it comes to horror.

When the books came
out in the 1980s,

they were illustrated
by Stephen Gammell.

If you go on the internet,
you will find tons of people

posting their favorite scary
pictures from the books

to try to terrify more people.

However, a few years
back when they did a big

anniversary release,
they have new art.

All over the internet people
were talking

about this new release
ruining their childhood,

so the stories weren't the
same without the artwork

and these new pieces of art,
which are very attractive

pieces of art just wouldn't
give them the nightmares

that they expected from
a Scary Stories book.

There was initially a run
on the now out of print,

original illustrations copies

that lead to Amazon
Marketplace prices

of hundreds of
dollars for one paperback,

beaten up old book.

- It gave me that
early sense of the power

an image could have.

I've talked to a lot
of other illustrators,

particularly comic artists
who've said similar things,

that they really have strong,

vivid memories of
seeing these images

and these illustrations
and they have left

some mark on them.

- It started out as just
going to be a simple display.

Thinking about the second book,

it started becoming
larger and larger.

I created the
tribute to the books

simply because it was a
major part of my childhood.

It was something that
I'd always wanted to see

in three-dimensional form.

A lot of natural
elements went into it

just to make it as realistic
as I possibly could,

but stay true to the
actual books.

He could just transform
into these incredible

atmospheres with
just a simple pen stroke.

- Actually adapting the
illustrations into photos

is bizarre and kind of hilarious

because obviously I don't

have a skeleton-like
bride to photograph.

I knew I wanted to
start with people.

I thought it would
be more realistic

and a better adaption
to start with people

and try to get them to end up

looking like the illustrations.

- And to create the
Scary Stories sculpture

I've been working on,
I've been using oil clay.

It allows you to take a
lot more time to do it,

really wanted to explore
this medium a little more

'cause this is what
they make the monsters

out of in the movies.

I decided to sculpt the
cover of the third book

in the series.

They were their own entity
floating in space like that

and at the same time,
they were so versatile

in their textures in their
completion.

- All these shingles are hand
cut and hand glued in place.

The trees were built from
tree roots and just branches

that were painted and
covered in black hot glue

to create the nice
sort of tendrils

that Gammell likes
to give to everything.

- I pretty much immediately
realized

that it was gonna be
much more challenging

than I initially thought.

It's difficult, especially
when you're going

off of something so
iconic and direct

like the images in the book.

There's a lot left to the
imagination and there's a lot

to interpret there and I
learned a lot about his process

and his thinking to
line up this one,

two-dimensional image,
you have to step back

and look at it,
and on the sketch

you see a mound
over here on this guy

and it's like, how am I gonna

make that happen?
- Blending the actual

head into the ground,

that was probably
the most difficult part

because the way it
looks in the book,

it looks a little bit different

than what I could actually do.

To me, what it always looked
like and what I always

thought it was was the
head was actually growing

out of the ground.

It was like a piece
of the ground

that was literally
growing next to the barn.

- I had been doing wedding
photography

and portrait photography
for so long,

for almost 10 years.

You get really tired doing
the same repetitive shot

in the same happy setting
with the same sun flare

and I love doing the colorful
work,

but I knew it wasn't
what was true to my heart

and I was really longing
to just do something

so opposite, so drained of color

and just kind of shocking,
but still really true

to who I am.

I always had those stories
in the back of my mind

and I finally just
decided I have to choose

these really small windows in
my time to just finally do it

and it was close to
Halloween and I thought

it was a perfect time to devote

the time to doing it.

I have a really strong
attachment to the books

I read when I was a kid.

I was convinced that I was
illiterate.

My teachers made me
feel awful for the fact

that the books they assigned
us, I never finished

and I remember we had a
reading chart in our classroom

where when you finished a
book, you got a gold star

on your name and I got really
insecure that all the other

kids had so many gold stars.

Here I was with like,
three measly gold starts

which I'm pretty sure I lied
about reading those books

to get those gold stars
'cause I felt so insecure.

So it was the first book
that I felt like,

not only am I so into this
book, but I'm gonna finish

this book and I'm gonna get
that gold star.

- As a kid, your imagination
is all you have to get by.

It's like, as a young
artist, it was validation

to keep exploring this
type of, that this avenue

was okay to pursue.

- I feel like their mind
and I see someone else

doing an ode to them, I'm
like oh, but it's my thing,

it was my childhood!
- Imagining his incredible

artwork, that was probably the
pinnacle

of the toughest task I had
ever, ever tried to create.

I mean, you can't get
close to what he presented.

That's his work, that
is his absolute work,

that's his style,
that's what he created

and trying to go off of that,

it was just damn near
impossible.

- Even Gammell remains a
figure of much interest

and mystery to everyone.

He's a very private person,

and so there are really
no extant interviews

available with him.

He doesn't give interviews,
but we do have an interview

he did do many, many years ago.

He tells you not
everything about him,

but it gives you
a bit of a window

into who Stephen Gammell is.

The first time I read a
manuscript, I can immediately
tell

whether I want to illustrate it.

I may not know how the
illustrations will look,

but I get a certain
feeling from the text.

I respond to the words, and
if I respond to a story,

I can illustrate it.

My first concern is to
serve the story.

That is an illustrator's job.

I don't research unless I
have to because I prefer

to draw from my imagination.

Whatever I draw, whether
it's a buffalo or a chair,

I try to make it my own to
satisfy myself.

I prefer to work alone, without
feedback from the author.

I believe that once a
manuscript is written

and accepted,
the writer's work is over.

Unless you collaborate on
a book from its inception,

talking with authors
can create problems

over artistic interpretation.

When I illustrate a story,
I want to work with my ideas

and my perception of the
words, not with the author.

While I had no notion
of what an artist was,

I did have an awareness of
illustration

from an early age.

I used to lie on my stomach
on the floor of the solarium

and draw soldiers, airplanes,
trains, and semaphores

as well as the usual
cowboys and Indians.

As years go by, you
retain what is interesting

from childhood and
toss out the rest.

I tried to get through high
school by drawing, too.

I'd turn in book reports
with illustrations,

thinking the teachers
would be impressed,

but of course they weren't.

- I know they're on
the banned book list,

so we weren't really even
allowed to necessarily have them

when we were in school, and
then we just kind of would sneak

'em into school.

We'd limit TV, I'd read
to my son every night.

It's incredibly important,
just so they build

that imagination and learn
how to make landscapes

in their head and it
makes them more creative

in my opinion.

I don't really see a kid
going out and scooping

somebody's brains out, you know?

It's just folklore, it's
fun, and if a kid can build

his imagination by reading
versus playing

a video game or watching
TV, then I'm all for it.

I actually came to Sam with
the idea for this entire sleeve

at once and I put down,
I paid for it in full

and I p.m. said this
is the idea I have.

There were certain
illustrations that I definitely,

definitely wanted and
then then other ones

were kind of just like
hey, let's see what fits

and looks cool.

I think my favorite Scary
Stories tattoo

is probably the church,
just because it is like,

so detailed, just down
to each shutter

and down to the cross on top.

It's probably my favorite.

That's the one that I get
the most compliments on

of all pieces that
are excellent on here,

that is the one that stands
out the most to people.

It kinda hits a soft spot in
most people

because they're really
excited about the books

just like I was.

- This artist in particular,
he wears a very unique hat

so to speak and asa I've been
an artist my entire life,

so for me to try to put
myself aside and literally

mimic this artist's work,
it's difficult.

It mirrors a lot of my style.

I like the macabre,
I like the dark.

I think it's interesting.

Beyond that, it's just fun.

- He was very, very
dark, but that darkness,

you sit there and
you look at the images

and you can keep finding
things, and finding things,

and finding things
that's in one image.

The more you look at it, the
more things that you find.

I have a two-year-old right now

and I think I would definitely
let him read these books

when he's ready.

They almost teach you
a little bit about how

to be more expressive
and just put more details

into everyday life and I think

it would be a really,
really good thing for him.

So, if he has nightmares,
I'm there to comfort him.

If he has questions about
things, I'm there to answer

them for him.

I'm not gonna shelter
him from scary things

just because I don't
feel like he's ready.

So when he's ready, he's ready

- The
superintendent walked back in

and this time he said,
"Miriam, let's go back

"to your office in the
back of the library,"

and I thought this is
not going well.

So we went back and he
sat down at the desk,

leaving me to stand.

And he said, "Miriam,
I'm going to ask you

"to remove this book from the
library."

And I said, "I don't
think I can do that.

"Did you read it?"

"No, I didn't get a chance."

He said, "you have thousands
of books in this library.

"Why would you stake your
career on one scary book?"

And I said, "For every
story, it has the region

"of the country that it came
from, it has the tradition

"of it, I don't have anything
else in the library like this.

"I think that I can
defend this book."

"Well," he said, "I'm gonna
have to get back to you.

"I'm gonna have to talk
to the school board.

"The school board
meets in two weeks,

"probably this'll have to
be part of the meeting."

- Hey, do you guys want
to hear a scary story?

- Yeah!
- Yeah, so.

- Okay, so one night as
this young girl was sleeping

in her bed, a spider crawled
across her face and it stopped

in her left cheek just
for a few minutes

and then it went off on its way.

Now the next morning,
the girl woke up

and she looked in the
mirror and she noticed

a little tiny red spot on her
cheek, so she went to her mom.

She was like, "Look at
this, what is this?"

And her mom said, "Oh, it
looks like a spider bite.

"It'll be fine, just don't
scratch it."

But soon, the red spot
turned into a big gross boil.

- Uh!
- And the little girl

went to her mom and she was
like, "Mom, look at it now!"

And her mom went, "Oh yeah,
that'll sometimes happen.

"It's coming to a head,
you know, like a pimple?"

But soon, the boil got even
bigger and she went to her mom

and she said, "Look at it now,
it hurts and it's making me

"look so ugly!"

And her mom was like,
"Okay, we'll have the doctor

"look at it, maybe it's
infected."

But then the doctor couldn't
see her till the next day,

so to calm down, the
girl decided that night

that she would take a nice,
soothing bath.

So that night as she lay
floating there

in the warm water, the boil
suddenly burst

and out swarmed a whole
bunch of little tiny spiders

from the eggs that had
been laid in her cheek

the night before."

- The Red Spot is a story
about a young girl named Ruth

who discovers, she thinks
is a pimple on her face.

A lot of that story
has to do with the fact

that we're often afraid
of what our body is doing,

the changes our body is
undergoing

and that's something that
I think kids can appreciate

and even teenagers 'cause
when you're in elementary

school, in middle school and
high school,

your body is constantly
changing and evolving

and your arms are too big,
your legs are too long,

your head's too big.

You're always growing and
changing and it's something

that you can't control, you
have no control over that

and a lot of times,
that can be scary.

- Breaching the integrity
of your own skin

and then having
babies come out of it,

the mom doesn't recognize
it for what it is,

it grows like a pregnant
belly and then you have

a lot of babies.

It's an obviously flawed
understanding

of how babies come out of moms.

That is a horror,
that's a place of horror

when a body morphs, it's
a mythic understanding

of how babies come out.

It actually is mythic,
it goes back to Zeus

who has a splitting headache,
cracks himself on the head

and Athena springs full
blown from his head.

These stories circulate
because they have

these existential ties.

- Donald and Sarah went to the
movies

and then after the movies,
they went for a ride

in Donald's car, so they
parked up on this cliff

where they could see
all up and down

the lights of the valley.

It was beautiful and just
as they were grooving

to the tunes,
a news bulletin broke in.

A murderer had escaped
from the state prison

and he was heading south
on foot armed with a knife.

Now the murderer was
missing his left hand

and in its place was a hook.

- The Hook is definitely a
parable for what can happen

when a boy and a girl

are left together unchaperoned,

whether it is something adult
that happens

like premarital sex or
whether it's just simply

the idea of it.

No, it's not proper, you
shouldn't be doing that yet.

Similar to the other
stories about the wreck,

there definitely seems
to be a warning

against teenagers
in cars together.

- The moral that
that story tells

is don't go to lover's lane,

don't experiment with
sexuality while you're young

and while
you have to be doing it

in a secluded, isolated area.

- It was nine o'clock
in the evening

and everybody was sitting
on the couch watching TV

it was Richard, Brian,
and Jenny, and Doreen,

the babysitter, they were all
hanging out

and then the telephone rang.

- And he says,
"I'm very close to you,"

and she hangs up and
about two seconds later,

the operator calls
back and says,

"Get out of the house.

"He's in there with you."

And I remember that was the
gotcha moment

at the end of the story and
even just thinking about it

brings up goosebumps
'cause I think

that's everybody's nightmare,
is the idea of having

a crazy person in
the house with you

while you're looking after
little kids

and you're by yourself.

- When you're a child,
domestic spaces are stable,

and they're familiar,
and they're comfortable

because you're in the
house with your parents,

all your things are there,
it's where you have dinner,

it's where you play, and so
it becomes a safe environment

and in a lot of gothic stories,
that environment is often

invaded by terror and anxiety.

We can see it in the
story The Voice,

we can see it in the
story Oh, Susanna

where we think
everything is safe.

Suddenly, our world
is flipped upside down

and a murderer could come
in and chop your head off

or in the story The Babysitter,

there's a guy upstairs on
the phone calling down.

And so there's a sense
here that you're never

really safe, you may think
you are, but you're not.

- When it got hot in the
valley, Thomas and Alfred

would bring their cows
up the mountain

to this beautiful
pasture to graze.

And so one day,
Thomas had this idea.

He was like, "Let's make
a doll the size of a man.

"It'd be fun to make and it
would scare away the crows.

"What do you think?"

And Alfred was like,
"That's a good idea.

"You know what,
we should name it Harold."

And Harold was the
name of the farmer

that the guys just hated.

- Then they decided there
must be some field mice

inside of Harold or
something, so they put him

back out to do his work,
brought him in the next day

and they heard Harold
grunt again.

And now and then over
the next few months,

Harold would grunt a
little bit more and one day

he even began to talk.

Then one day, one of
the two farmers woke up

and his partner was missing,
and he looked around

and tried to find him, but
he couldn't find the partner

and he couldn't find Harold
anywhere.

But then he looked
up onto his roof

and there was Herald,
spreading out a bloody skin.

- One of my favorites is Harold.

- Harold.
- Harold.

- Ooh, I know this one.
- Of course.

- Yeah!
- Harold.

- Yeah.
- What do you

remember from it?
- The nightmares.

- One of the reasons I
think I like it so much

is because it's very timely

'cause it's a story about
bullying.

- It gave me nightmares
because of course,

I was a little girl,
I had a lot of dolls

and all I did after that was
think about different ways

that they might come to life.

- Sometimes we are the
ones who are responsible

for making the monster
who they are.

- This biography was
published some years ago

and I gave the publishers
this photo,

but you can see that
it's the same one, yeah.

He thoroughly researched
all of his topics

and investigated many
different sources.

Schwartz did a lot of his work

at Princeton University's
Firestone Library.

While researching, Schwartz
looked for patterns.

What did many of the folk
tales have in common,

what similar elements
were present in stories

from around the country?

- From a very young age,
as soon as I could read,

I was very tuned to my
grandfather's books

and the Scary Stories books.

- A lot of my relationships
with certain people

that I know is founded on
the fact that they love

these books, so whenever
they see me they're like,

"Scary Stories guy!"

I'm like, yeah.

Growing up, I never really
saw in light of them

being widely banned, I
just saw them as stories

that my grandfather collected.

I think now I see them
more as, the banned books,

as part of their legacy
and I think now

that is the point of
pride for me,

the fact that they
were widely banned.

I think that that
validates them.

This is Firestone Library
on the campus

of Princeton University,
where my grandpa

used to research his Scary
Stories books.

- Alvin Schwartz drew
on all the folk legends

and old folklore,
folklore from everywhere

and he found variations
of the stories,

which I think kids
find really interesting

and I love that in his books.

My sources, I think, are
completely different.

We were opposites in many
ways because his books

were so completely researched.

He would spend a year
researching these old ghost
stories

and old legends from all over.

I've never done
research in my life!

- Another wonderful thing
about Schwartz's work

is those links in the back
that he gives to collectors'

work and what's marvelous
from a folklore

and literature point of
view as a scholar

is how I see children interact
with that.

You get a child that's really
precocious

and interested in the world,
if you flip to the back

and you see that source
material,

you go, oh jeez, I had no
idea that they told folktales

in Guatemala or India or
wherever the place may be

and now suddenly
you have a source

and if the child is lucky
enough to have the internet

at home or to have a
university library nearby,

they can go and they can
bring in those collections

and they can read and
have their eyes opened

in a way that they never had
before.

- They played all sorts
of foolish pranks with it,

smeared it with cream and
pudding and finally went so far

as to baptize it.

Now it came to life
and began to talk.

- One of the more interesting
dimensions of that story

is that in the original
source material,

they baptize Harold
when they create him.

What's especially
interesting with Harold

is the connection between
the baptism and Napoleon.

It's sort of weaponizing baptism

and it becomes not a
type of liberation,

but it becomes another
form of control,

then that's potentially
Promethean.

I mean, that's like
stealing fire from the gods

and it's dangerous.

- Some stories verge
on straight jokes.

There are dozens of
stories of this type.

A man calls up a woman
on the fall and tells her

he's coming up to her apartment.

She asked who he is and he
says, "The Widow Viper."

- One of the stories in
the Scary Stories books

that I think mixes
humor and horror so well

is The Viper where there's a
woman who is in her apartment

and this man keeps
calling her and he says,

"I am the Viper
and I'm coming upstairs."

And she's like,
"Oh no, the Viper!"

That sounds like some
kind of serial killer

or maybe a monster snake.

And so she calls the police,
but the guy comes upstairs first

and then she opens the door
and he's standing there

and he's holding a
bucket and a rag

and he says, "I am the viper,
I am here vipe your vindows."

And so in my head anyway,

he always had a
Transylvanian accent.

- The Vindow Viper is
probably my favorite story

from the Scary Stories books.

It really reads like a joke
with a setup and punchline

and what the humor does is it
sort of brings the narrator

to the fore at the
end of this story,

really a cathartic
feeling when you hear that

and you're just like,
sigh of relief

and the humor really
brings that out.

- The stories can be linked
to the local environment,

it can be linked to the
cultural environment,

but what's really
interesting is they take you

right to the edge of
your seat and suddenly

ah yeah, it's the Viper.

I vant to vash your vindows,
and it's not a big deal.

They're gonna come wash your
windows and what's happened

is you've been taken right
along the line of belief

right to the
point where you expect

this to be like
every other legend.

I'm gonna be challenged.

But the way you're actually
challenged

your expectation is challenged,

and that's where that
subtext of humor comes in.

- There is a saying,
he who takes a trip

has something to tell.

The teller of the
legend takes a trip

to a very different world,

one which lies beyond the
mundane reality

of everyday life.

- So that kind of Eastern
European,

German-esque changing of
just a consonant sound

gives a story that could
be very well placed

in many locations across the
United States

'cause the German influx

settled in many,
many different places

and it gives someone the chance

to think about
outsiders versus insiders,

one of the really neat
things about folklore

and then one of the things
that's a little bit touchy

we well is when you have
a whole lot of people

who are very similar,
then the world

is supposed to be one way,
we have one point of view.

Scary Stories are a place where
we can challenge ourselves

with points of view from away.

They may be other regions,

other countries, somebody
who speaks a foreign language

and eats really weird stuff
and you're not really sure

what it is 'cause you
don't recognize the name

in the other language.

- My name is Gary Fine,
I am a professor

os Sociology at
Northwestern University.

I believe it was
about 30 years ago

that I received a phone
call from Alvin Schwartz.

It was kind of exciting,
I have to say.

I was a young scholar, I have
to say, and to see my name

in print in one of
the series of books

that was aimed at children,
Sam's New Pet

is a classic rewriting of
the Mexican Pet legend,

and this is a legend that
perhaps today

is even more relevant
than it has ever been.

It was really spread widely
at first in the 1980s,

but why would it have
been spread at that point?

It is a story about naive
Americans

who go to a third world land
and admire the people there,

but also they decide
against the laws.

Illegally, they will bring
one of these foreign animals,

these foreign creatures
onto American shores.

And of course, the story
is about how that seeming

act of kindness is dangerous,

and this is a story that
was relevant in the 1980s

when we had discussions about
immigration

and remains relevant today.

- The really interesting stories

that are the challenge, taboos,

and expectations about culture
are the ones that focus

on the people from away
'cause you don't really know

what they think, you don't
really know what they believe,

not really sure what
they eat, not really sure

how they think about morality.

They might sell you a diseased
rat as a hairless dog.

- The Scary Stories tales
include a number of stories

taken from right here in the
Ozarks of southern Missouri

and northern Arkansas.

The Ozarks experienced
the Civil War in a manner

very different from much
of the rest of the country.

And one of the old tropes
about the Civil War

is that it was a war fought
between neighbor and neighbor

and brother and brother.

In most parts of the country,
that's not really true.

Most of the combatants
didn't actually know

the person they were killing

or who were trying to kill them.

Here in the Ozarks, it
very often was the case.

So by the end of the war,
that left the population

of southern Missouri and
northern Arkansas

deeply divided amongst
themselves.

It left a legacy of
bitterness and mistrust

and it comes through
in the art, the songs,

the stories that people tell.

So for example,
in the story Alligators,

you have a story about a
young woman who marries a man,

actually has two children
with him and it turns out

he is a shape
shifter of some sort,

he goes down to the creek at
night and he goes swimming

and when he gets into the water,
he turns into an alligator.

And not only that,
but his sons do.

Well, what is this story
trying to communicate to us?

The sense of extreme
anxiety that people had

over who they could
trust that affected

even some of the most basic
relationship decisions.

The story Wonderful Sausage
is taken from an Ozark folk

story called The Bloody Miller,
collected by Vance Randolph.

There's a proprietor of a
gristmill much like this one

who gets into a
fight with his wife.

He kills her in a fit of
rage, he grinds her body up

and sells it as sausage.

In the process, he
discovers that human meat

makes the best sausage.

Of course, not everybody
had the means

or the wherewithal at that time

to make their own sausage.

That meant that you are
trusting somebody else

with what into your belly.

One of the interesting
thematic connections

between a story like
The Bloody Miller

and The Cat's Paw,
Little Black Dog,

is the issue of mistrust
and also social anxiety,

the idea that you don't always
know what your neighbor,

your friend, or even
your significant other,

your spouse, is capable of.

- I remember the
last time I saw him,

the cancer had
gone into his brain

and he had a few weeks to live.

He didn't really know that.

And then we drove to the
airport and I got out

and I knew that I
wouldn't see him again

and I had this strong impulse
to tell him that I loved him

and I wasn't able to do it, and
I just remember walking away

and that was it.

- Death in children's
literature is a perennial theme.

One of the themes
that is most affecting,

that is one of the
themes that appeals most

to our imaginations
through our emotions,

but it also is fascinating
for children in terms

of helping them
develop a sense of self.

Some kids are
incessantly curious.

They've really got that
hyperactive epistamaphilic
impulse.

They want to know well,
what does it look like

to be dead?

Not just what
happens after we die.

They don't want some nebulous,

we're all, you know, we turn
into spirits.

No, I want to know about
the worms crawl in,

the worlds crawl out.

- I was in a discussion
just a couple of days ago,

you know, the cremation
versus burial debate

and what came to mind but
that particular rhyme,

the worms crawl in,
the worms crawl out.

Children need these outlets.

They need to have platforms.

Verse, chant silly songs
that enable them somehow

to banish their fears.

The young are precocious,
they know that people die,

but nobody will talk
to them about it.

- The importance of
giving a name and a face

to our fears is the first way to
come from

because if you say to a child
oh, that will never happen,

do you know what?

Sometimes it does, but what
we can do is give children

the power to acknowledge
what they're feeling.

It is wrong to say that
there is nothing to fear.

There are all kinds
of things to fear.

Anything that can happen
that's going to help us

figure out how we
can begin to control it

is really, really important.

- The next day was Halloween.

We have a parade at our schools.

I was just getting
ready for the morning.

The principal comes
tearing into the room.

She says, "Miriam, Miriam,
you have got to see this!"

And I go running
out of the library

and coming up the driveway
is the complaining mother

with her two daughters.

The third grade is
dressed like a witch

and the kindergartner is
dressed like a skeleton

and they're carrying ghost
balloons for their classroom.

Well, as part of the day's
festivities,

we took pictures of children,
including the third grader

and the kindergartner,
which we then printed

and gave to the superintendent.

The superintendent had the
mother come in

and suggest that probably
she needed to withdraw

her complaint that it
was totally ungrounded.

- Parents and teachers in
a Seattle suburb will vote

next week on a
plan to ban three books

from an elementary
school library.

Those who want to
get rid of the books

say they're just too
gruesome for young readers.

More from Susanna Frame.

- I was upset by the graphic
illustrations

and violent stories.
- A debate broke out here

over death, the devil, and
dismemberment,

all topics stemming from
three thin books of folklore

called the Scary Stories
by Alvin Schwartz.

- And sure, they're
gonna be afraid of fires,

and drowning, and strangers,
but why do they have to live

with this fear that
somebody's gonna chop 'em up

and eat them?
- Parents behind the book

say this is a clearcut case of
censorship

and that the tales are actually
good for their children.

- Back in 1993, I was
a children's librarian

at the Public
Library and some moms

who lived in
Kingsgate that was right

close to my library got it in
their heads

to challenge the Lake of
Washington School District

for having he Alvin Schwartz
books in the school libraries.

- Suddenly I was not just a
concerned mother, I was a censor

because I wanted
to ban these books.

- And so the Lake Washington
School Board

had a hearing.

The school librarians asked
me if I would come too

as the local public librarian
and also because I had

a PhD in Folklore and I could
speak about the oral tradition

and the history of these stories

and maybe get a little
background there.

- Parents behind the books say

this is a clearcut case of
censorship, and that the tales

are actually good
for their children.

- There's no way they can
think about what happens

once a person dies and
they're in the grave.

Do they rot?

What happens when you die?

You rot.

Can you talk about it?

Uh-uh, but kids thing about it

and these stories help
them think about it openly.

Which of course is the
crux of the whole thing.

Our kids don't get to hear
that you rot when you die.

- It's about age
appropriateness.

I'm not saying take them
out of all libraries,

I'm just saying take them out

of elementary school libraries.

They do not belong there.

The committee said we're
gonna keep the books.

I said okay, then I'm
gonna now take it

to the school board because
that was my other alternative

'cause that's what
they said to me,

take it to the school board.

- There were many cases
of school boards debating

whether to keep Goosebumps
in the school library

or not and I'm happy to
say that in most cases,

the books were kept on the
shelves, most.

There was a wonderful,
now it was in Minnesota,

I think, where a school
board was going to take

all the Goosebumps books
away from their schools

and it was on C-SPAN.

- William W. Garrison Franklin.

- And a father stood up
and he had a big stack

of Goosebumps books.

- My name's Bill Garrison.

My daughter goes to Franklin.

I'm unable to read to
her for the simple fact

that I'm a single parent
and I have no time

to read for her, but these
Goosebumps collection

that I have here, which I
have not seen one tonight,

encouraged her to read and if
they're taken off the shelves,

then I'm afraid she's
gonna lose interest to read

and is gonna end up like
me without a decent job

because I have no education.

- I want her to be able
to read what she loves

and I'm home in tears watching
this guy.

I'm like, it was amazing.

- If the kids choose to
read 'em, more power to 'em,

if the parents don't choose
to have 'em in the home,

more power to 'em.

I'm one for to keep 'em
with the books.

- Thank you.
- One thing you notice

about book hearings
is that people

are very passionate at them.

- That's disgusting!

This is disgusting.
- I think we're gonna

call a recess. - Now don't.

- I have been coming to
board meetings for 11 years!

- Don't touch her.
- It's absurd!

Everybody's playing around

about what the
context of this is.

Nobody's talking
about censoring the book,

nobody's talking about
banning the book or burning

the book or anything.

- If they would engage in sex,

as it is suggested
in these books,

the students are well on
their way to catch STD.

- I have to tell you
though, I was thinking

that when I was younger,

around 13, if it would
have been so easy

to find the dirty
books in the library

because they were labeled,
that would have been perfect.

That would have been great.

- Our children
exposed to explicit,

filthy, racist things.

- There's emotion,
there is anger.

- The ending part says
the wood cutter

took a pair of scissors
and cut open the stomach

of the wolf to free
grandma and Riding Hood.

This is scary and gory for
kindergarten.

- There is disgust, there
is self-righteousness.

- These children
came from our wombs.

You have them as teachers
for a small part of a day.

We have 'em for a lifetime.

- Parents come in
armed with the books

marked with passages.

Maybe they're highlighted,
maybe they have Post-It notes

in them, they're ready to
spout off all the words.

Maybe they counted
all the curse words.

- I'm going to read out
loud some information

and excerpts from the
book The Handmaid's Tale.

This book has 300
pages which contain

some of the following.
- People want to get up

on that soapbox and
say I am so much better

than this book!

I don't read this smut.

- Seven sex acts,
64 sexual allusions,

11 references to suicide
with three being carried out,

others include drugs, drinking,
smoking, and profanity.

- We all have to be able
to stand for almighty God

and be judged for our actions.

That being said, I'm very
concerned for every one of you

and everybody in this community

that is willing to
place this type

of material upon our children.

- And I don't want to
necessarily stand up

for curse words or sexually
explicit scenes or violence.

They use these words that
are not true to the book.

They'll say that this young
adult book

that is a best seller
and was turned

into a movie is pornography.

It's not pornography,
there's a sex scene in it.

It doesn't make it pornography.

- What's so fascinating
about them

is that people are
talking about reading

and the act of reading and
how much it has influence

over someone's life.

- And too often the only
support these young people

can find is in their
library where they can read

from a book that
there's someone else

who's experiencing
the same thing.

- Reading is one of the
most powerful practices

that we could do and
that's what you see

at a book hearing,
is the passion

that people talk about books.

I've found, when I
studied book censors,

is that it actually changes
with whatever's going on

in society, and often this
happens in times of strife.

So one time was
during the Civil War,

during the World War II.

What we see in the
'80s was of course

the rise of the religious right.

There were all these scares
about sickness

in your neighborhood
where there was like,

ritual child sacrifice
taking place

in your suburban neighborhood.

It was just in the ether then,

so of course because you
were hearing on the news

that there were satanists
in your neighborhood,

of course, you would be
concerned about books

that seemed to
touch on these ideas.

What I'm seeing now as we move

towards a more
multicultural society

is you see more books
about LGBTQIA populations

about ethnic minorities,
those sorts of books

are what we see now that
are being challenged.

- If those stories get
lost and get replaced

by artificial stories, then
I think we've lost something.

It's not that these are nice
stories, they certainly aren't

and perhaps some of these
stories deserve

to be put on the dustbin of
history,

but they are still authentic,

authentic tot he groups
themselves

and I would hate
to be in a society

in which children's
stories are so thoroughly

controlled by adults.

- Dealing still with
issues of identity

that have to do with how you,
many ways, still how you think

about your parents is
connected with how you think

about yourself and despite
the fact that he had written

all these books and
had his ups and downs

and still was at it and this
was how he supported his family

through the years, I
just didn't understand

what his goal was as a writer.

I remember being in the
living room with him

and I was probably
in my early 20s

and telling him that I
felt like he was,

let's see, what was it?

Basically I said I don't
think what you've done

is worthwhile, I don't know why

you don't do more
ambitious projects.

I basically said these
are small little works

of no consequence, and I was
probably in graduate school

at the time and doing
things which I imagined

to be of enormous
consequence and I remember,

it must have hurt a lot.

He looked at me and
all he said was,

"You don't want to know

"what I'm thinking about you
right now."

And I'd like to say, because
I was in my early 30s

when he died, I'd like to
say that we had repaired

our relationship by then,
but it wouldn't be true.

- And then I found out that
Alvin Schwartz

had been invited to come to
our young author's conference

and I said, "Well, I would
certainly like to meet the man

"to ask him that
question, do you feel

"that these are appropriate
for our age group,

"for five to 11-year-olds?"

But then he got sick
and passed away,

so I never did get
to ask that question.

I don't feel that it is.

I've seen so much of the
violence

that was also in these books.

It think it's
affected our society.

I don't want to blame
all of the violence,

but it's like, it made it okay.

I guess I would ask
Peter the same question.

How do you feel that it's age
appropriate

for elementary school level?

- Oh, it has this wrapper on it.

Just unwrap it. - Yeah.

Can I?

I need to start.

Let's just start.
- I'm actually channeling

my father right now.
- Let's start.

- He would have
been a wreck doing this.

Sandy was like, the
spearhead of this movement

in Kirkland 25 years ago
and it was almost 25 years

to the day that they
had their hearing

which I know the Seattle
Times when they wrote about it

talked about the
length of the hearing,

which was like seven
hours was a scary story,

terrifying in itself that people

would have to sit through that.

So I'm really interested
in all the time

that's passed to recapture
some of the energy

and the concerns.

Hi, Sandy.

- Hi.
- I'm Peter Schwartz.

- Hi Peter.
- Nice to meet you.

- Nice to meet you, too.

- Yeah, thank you so much for
coming up.

- Yeah, sure!
- It's great

to have you come up

and it's kind of amazing after
25 years.

- I know, I know.
- And I would love

to learn more about
your experience

and how it seems to you now
from this distance in time

and what you were
thinking or what made you

decide to come up.
- I think because I felt

like the whole story
hadn't been told.

Being parents, the
schools are always asking

for our opinion on how
do you feel about this

or at the end of the year
or during conferences,

is there anything
we can do better?

But then when we
actually say something,

I feel like they're like,
we don't want to know.

I got phone calls from parents.

That's how I initially
found out about the books

because the kids are talking
about this

on the playground.

They're upset about it.

It's not that I want
them banned or censored

or whatever, I just don't
think they're age appropriate

for elementary school children.

That is my question to you,

do you feel that
they're age appropriate?

- Well that's, I mean, it's
a really good question.

I don't have a single
answer, but I do understand

the concern and the kids
that talk about it now

are the ones that
remember it as like,

as some of them I remember
said in the Kirkland situation

that these are the books

that got them
excited about reading.

Kids don't read as
much as they used to.

That is very upsetting to me.

I don't care what they read.

I'd rather they
read than just be...

- Ah, my grandsons love books.
- That's huge!

- You're a censor,
your a book fan,

or whatever, you don't really
want to hear

what our true feelings were.

- He had always had an
academic perspective on them.

He, I think, loved the
attention that he got

and the illustrations are
brilliant,

but in many ways.
- They're frightening.

They were frightening.
- Yeah, they were terrifying,

but I mean, he's a genius.

And when you give your
kids over to a school

and we have a crisis of
institutional legitimacy

these days where everybody's
saying all of our public

institutions have failed,
and how do you balance

the issue of decision
making and control?

But a lot of it had
to do with people

who were saying it was
satanic or that there was,

it was not so much about
what's age appropriate

as that this is stuff
that is contaminating,

it contaminates
our entire culture,

our heritage,
our religious beliefs.

It's an offense to our
existence.

- I know that there
was a couple of people

that brought it up, the demonic,
and I guess I don't know

why that's even in there.

To me, it's like why
do you want to even?

But if it was folklore, it
was just to me a lot of evil.

- I think he also felt
like he had an obligation

to kind of preserve
them in written form

and without judging him, I
don't think he was thinking

a lot about the impact they
would have in particular ways

on particular people.

I think they were really
interesting to him

as a reflection of how we manage

and think about anxieties and
how we address the problem

of evil because there
is evil in the world.

My dad, I think, was
really good at what he did.

He had a journalist
background and really cared

a lot about getting the story
right and about research.

He was a craftsman
when it came to words

and this is out there,
this is stuff

where it's on the kinds of
margins of our consciousness

where we think about
really important issues

of who we are,
what it means to be human

and what it means to die
and where does danger exist

and how do we think
about it and do with it

and these are things
that all kids

need to think about.
- And I understand

that.

- In fact, we don't talk about
reading very much anymore

and how much
reading means to us.

Talking about reading
is difficult for people

because reading is such
a personalized process,

but in fact, the way
you see how much reading

means to someone
is if you're trying

to take it away from them.

- When he died, he had achieved
a fair amount of success

and was pretty well
known in the little world

he was part of, but there
was almost no one at his,

we had a graveside service
and there were probably

only like 15 people there, max.

I mean, his family, he
didn't have a community

to mourn for him in the sense
that I think

a lot of people do.

But he was able, it really
was a surprise to me,

but he was able to leave
despite that, quite a legacy.

- We were thinking of an
idea that we could use

and I came up with
the idea like man,

Scary Stories, everybody
loves these like, everybody.

I mean, people in my
family, all of my friends,

we all loved this book.

I saw so much interest,
so many people sharing it,

so many people liking it,
so many people commenting

like, this is amazing,
this is amazing.

You still see it to this day

as far as influence on
musicians,

you see it in movies,
you see it in artists.

I mean, it was a huge
deal and I think it still

is a huge deal.

- You know,
what life is all about,

just the dark aspects and I
don't think it's a bad thing.

You grow out
of it and you love it.

You really appreciate it.

- You should be a
little scared, you know?

There should be some kind
of excitement between that.

I mean, if everything's just
handed to you

and sugar coat it, how
do you take on the world?

That's just like, 'cause
it needs to be striking.

That's how we
remember it to this day.

- When we started
doing this event

and even up until recently,

when I was sharing
on websites and man,

in minutes, the status were
being shared all over the place.

I've read people asking
to take this exhibit

to Dallas, to take it to
Houston.

I've seen people, why don't
you take it to California?

It's mind blowing.

This isn't a little thing,
this is huge, this is worldwide

and it's amazing,
it really is amazing.

I can't believe it's been
so long and yet people

love these books, they love
these stories,

they love this artwork.

It's just honestly, it's
never gonna go away.