Rain Without Thunder (1992) - full transcript

It's the year 2042 and the threat is real...women are going to prison for terminating their pregnancies. An investigating reporter is determined to reveal the truth behind the convictions.

So, where did you say
you were from, again?


So, what do you
want to know

that everybody
doesn't already know?

All I want to do,
Allison, is give you
an opportunity to talk.

That's all it seems like
I've been doing
for six months.


It's not like
anybody listens,
really, you know.

I mean, they listen,
but I...

I mean, all this talking,
all these

all my answers...

Doesn't change anything.

"Tell me your story,"
they ask.

"Are you sorry
for what you did?"


"Do you still speak
to Jeremy?"


One reporter even
asked me if I still
love my mother.

In the past year,
I've given so many

and with each interview,

I expressed
such optimism

that things were going
to get better.

And with each
succeeding interview,
things got worse.

So, I would like
to express optimism
right now

that things are
going to get better.

But I'm coming
to learn my lesson.


I'm coming to believe
that my daughter and I
are in a losing battle.

I don't speak so much
with the other people here.

I mean, I think I could.
Everyone seems nice,
sort of, but...

You know, I just
don't wanna get
too involved here.

Allison's room
is in the barracks,

which is at
the other end
of the building.

I requested
that they let us
stay together,

at least have our rooms
next to each other,
but they...

They're so careful
not to show
favoritism to us

that they refuse
to do simple, little
things like that.

ALLISON: There's this
one girl, Shana.

You know,
she told me that...

That she thinks
I'm lucky to have
Mom here

because it's like
living with your family.

Shana, I mean...

I don't know if
she means well,
but I just...

I mean, I would hardly
describe it as luck
that Mom is here.

It's amazing, you know,
how things can
turn around so fast.

All the plans
that you make

for yourself and
for your family
are just thrown out.

And they're thrown out
by people that you
don't even know.

I'd forgotten that
other people can make
plans for you.

MURDOCH: The Goldring
case was routine.

REPORTER: How can you
say it was routine?

Because it was
a simple murder case.

Wouldn't it have been
difficult to prove
without the confession?


When we have
medical evidence,
convictions are easy.

Getting the medical
evidence, though,

requires speed
and a little luck.

But when we get it,
convictions are assured.

You should understand
that we usually
urge the defendant

to confess
and express remorse.

In that event,
we recommend to the judge

that less than
the maximum sentence
be imposed.

Which is?

In New York,
it is only 10 years
for defendant mothers.

I advised them not to admit
to anything because they had
a good case.

For one thing,
the district attorney,
he had no hard evidence.

Usually the state
has the results

of the compulsory
uterine examinations

or blood tests
or something, but...

But those tests,
they have to be conducted
within two weeks

of termination to show
positive results

and they didn't
have that here.

All they had in
the Goldring case was
circumstantial evidence.

BEVERLY: If this whole thing
isn't overturned,

we're gonna lose our home.

The fines.

They've already put
a lien against our house.

You know...

Our home is
not exactly the palace
that everyone says it is.

It's just a home.

Beverly never did anything
wrong in her entire life.

Believe me, she's always
been the moral force
in the family.

It just makes no sense,

how unfairly
these things
can turn out.

Apparently, they could have
chosen to prosecute me

instead of Beverly,
but somehow they
decided that

Beverly was more responsible
because she was the one

who went with Allison
and I didn't.

The prosecution really made
Beverly Goldring out to be

an overbearing,
arrogant woman,

who was into controlling
everything around her

and the press
bought into that
to a certain extent.

Though, I must say,
that most of the media

has focused sympathetically
on Allison.

BEVERLY: My husband has been
a nervous wreck.

He wouldn't like it
that I was describing it
that way, but...

It's been really hard on him
with the two little girls
at home, and...

So, my mother flew in
last month from Wisconsin

to help take care
of Piper and Micka.

REPORTER: Mrs. Kappelhoff,
do you feel that
what your daughter did

in helping Allison
terminate her pregnancy
was wrong?


Do I think it was wrong?

My mother, my own mother...

I was premature.
My mother was an addict.

She gave birth to me
at a concert.

At a music concert.

In the mud outside.
In the mud, in the rain.

She just left me there,
left me with strangers.
Never saw her.

How is this relevant to
what your daughter's done?

My daughter has done
nothing wrong.

My daughter is
a wonderful mother.

She's done nothing
she should be ashamed of.

Mom said we should
think of it like

she and Dad are
on vacation for a while.

And that it's
no big deal.

And Grandma, you know,
she takes care of everything.

But when Mom
goes on vacation,
she goes with Dad.

So, she's really, like,
on vacation with Allie,
'cause Dad's here with us.

ALLISON: Um, outside
of my family,

I don't think anybody
really knew what was
going on, you know.

Except, of course, Jeremy.

And I did tell
my roommate
at Cornell, Abra.

I mean, it's hard
not to talk about things
when you're roommates.

And obviously,
during the year
we became friends.

So, we talked about it.

So, you took
an interest in
Allison's pregnancy.

Well, like I said, it's hard
not to talk about things
when you're roommates.

Um, there was this guy
where Abra grew up,
in Schnectady,

and he does
termination, so...

Um, and I think
she knew someone
who went to him once

for one, too. So...

But she wasn't
suggesting that I should
go to him or anything.

Allison was thinking about
going to a terminator.

But I talked her out of it.

You can't trust those people.
They're all smell-smock.

Plus, it's dangerous,
I told her.

And, of course, it's illegal.

She was real confused
because she didn't
wanna tell her mom.

Abra told me that, I guess,

Cuba is the only place nearby
where p-term is legal.

And she had a cousin,
I think, who went there
for termination.

So, she started planning
on how I could get there
without anyone knowing.

She got this whole
plan together, um...

That I would go
on a weekend, you know.

I would take the muni
to Stewart Airport
and then skip to Cuba.

Do all this early
on a Saturday morning

She figured that
I could get to Cuba
before lunch, even.

WARDEN: If you look
at the population here
at Walker Point

or any of the facilities
for defendant mothers
throughout the country.

What do you see?

I'll tell you what you see.

You see poor women.
They're all poor.

And there is something
wrong with this.

And everyone knows there's
something wrong with this.

Particularly because
it's not only poor women

who are committing
the crime of fetal murder.

Wealthy women
commit this crime, too.

I called a staff meeting
to discuss the problem.

I was there,
John Bowen, Judy Richter,

I presented
the problem simply.

Poor women are imprisoned
for fetal murder.

Rich women are not,

because they leave
the country to get
a termination.

So, how can we correct
this problem legislatively?

Judy suggested that
when we determine
that a woman

has had a termination
elsewhere, we publicize it.

Sort of to embarrass
rich women

into not having
a foreign termination.

John thought this would be
utterly ineffective.

And I agreed with him.

Legislators, they do
nothing except make laws.

They just sit around
and write laws.

That's what they do. They...

Thousands and thousands of
legislators in this country
and they all write laws.

John suggested
that we somehow

perform pregnancy tests
on departing women
at the airport.

But we decided that
it would be too expensive.

Plus, the Port Authority
would raise hell
at such a suggestion.

If they didn't do anything,
we'd be better off.

If the legislators
would just stay home,

not even come in
to work, the country
would be better off.

We continued talking, and...

Someone mentioned
the word "kidnapping."


Isn't it like a kidnapping?

The kidnapping of a child,
only here, it's an
unborn child.

A kidnapping
for the purpose of
committing murder.

The pertinent part
of the kidnapping law
states that

a person shall be
considered guilty
of first degree murder

if he or she commits upon
a pregnant female

an abortional act
outside the state
of New York

which causes the
miscarriage of such fetus,

if he or she
resides in the state
and with such fetus leaves

with the intent
of committing
such abortional act.

Judy saw a whole host
of constitutional
problems with it,

but John got
excited about it.

And he and Judy
agreed to make a stab

at drafting
a proposed statute.

Within a week,
they had written

what is now
the Unborn Child
Kidnapping Act.

When Grover Cole submitted
the Kidnapping Act bill

to the state assembly,
he made a speech.

And in that speech,
he said, and I quote,

that, "Nature had given
women so much power.

"The law cannot afford
to give her more."

And then he smiled.
Said it was just a joke.

And, frankly...

I think it's a nice
piece of work.

Of course, it's got
some kinks in it.

But every new law
has kinks.

With time, those problems
will be corrected.

Either judicially

or legislatively.

The media gave little
or no attention

when the act was
passed by the Assembly.

Of course, there was
a news article or two

speculating whether
the governor would sign it.

But the media
didn't find a story

until the Goldrings
were indicted.

So you think
the media's interest
is illegitimate.

Legitimacy has nothing
to do with it.

The media is interested
in the Goldrings

because the Goldrings have
money and a fair complexion.

Beverly was actually lucky.

She was indicted
and convicted as
a defendant mother

and not a terminator,
because if she'd
have been convicted

as a terminator,
which she could
have been under the law,

35 years to life.

And she wouldn't have been
staying at Walker Point,
either, which...

Some say is just shy
of a country club.

We treated both the Goldrings
as defendant mothers.

REPORTER: So you think
the Goldrings got off easy?

Mrs. Goldring,
who's technically not
a defendant mother,

but a conspirator
with the terminator.

You must understand
that the first conviction
under new law

is always treated
more sensitively.

And this is true until
the law is understood
and appreciated by the public.

You think this law
will eventually
be appreciated?

It certainly represents
a revolutionary approach

in correcting the racial
and class injustices

of fetal murder prosecutions.

The concept of kidnapping
an unborn child
is admittedly novel.

And it may have
constitutional problems,

but we believe
those problems
can be overcome.

The Goldring case
is a test case.

It is the first step toward
that public appreciation
of the kidnapping law.

WARDEN: Walker Point is more
a hospital than a prison.

This facility

is not for retribution.
It's for rehabilitation.

These women have to be

so they understand
the nature of
what they did,

or tried to do.

WOMAN: This guy tells me
that all you do is flurk
a pop bottle.

See, you flurk it up
and stick it in

and let it shoot up inside
and that kills the bed bugs.


He had these two Cokes
next to the bed,

and after...

Well, we finished.

He starts flurking up
the bottles

and he shoots
both of them into me.

And he felt real proud,
like he knew what
he was doing.


I never see the guy again
and I get fruited, anyway.

First of all, I'm only
in this spital
for three years.

This is the end of
my second year,
so it's almost over.

Most of the girls here
got fruited.

Not me. I didn't kill
no pop lolly.

What happened, exactly?

WOMAN: I was working
at this food fare, Newburg.

And these two
velvet heads come in,

from the health department.

They flash their badges

and they tell the manager that
they have a warrant for me.

They don't tell me nothing.

They make me
get in their Hummer

and they take me to
the M Center.


I tell Star, my sister.

She says that
the only thing to do
is those baby bombs.

So she gets me
the number of this guy
in Johnson city and...

I call him and...

He just hands them
to me, like that.

Just gives me this envelope
with the two bombs inside and

I just give him
the chinkers and
that was it.

The due doc takes me
to this small room,

where I get undressed
and put on the sheet.

The doc takes an S-gram,
which I never had before,

you know, with the
probe and all.

So, the doc takes
a sample from me,

of me, and gives it
to these mobards.

And they also grab my S-gram.

I asked Star
how I should
take them, like,

one per day, or what?

And she doesn't really
know, but she says

she heard
you have to whack
the pop lolly hard

to get rid of it, so...

Maybe I should take
them both together.

So that's what I do.

They didn't find anything

except that the S-gram
showed I had a uudie.

Most of my friends
have the thing.

You put it in yourself
and it stays in for
a couple of months.

It's real simple.
You don't have to
worry about anything

I got it from a friend.

They tried to get me
to tell who but I didn't.

A uudie gets you
three years, max,

and I got the max
for not squealing
where I got it.

I was bleeding
and quenching around

My mom was hysteria news.

Star was crying...

And the docs told Mom
I was fruited and
I was losing it.


They figured
the whole thing out.

I got poisoned with
the two bombs and all.

His stuff was
still in me,
so they knew.

They knew.
They told Mom.

The police were there
right away.

I'm quenching around
and the police are
yelling at me.


What were they saying?

They wanted to know
where I got the bombs.

Mom insisted
that I tell them.

Star got real scared.
She said after that...

She was scared
I was going to die.

But I didn't.
I just ended up here.

They wouldn't let us
see Bev this last weekend.

Something about how Bev
snapped at one of
the guards or nurses.

It's the second time
it's happened.

I don't mind for myself
but it is hard
on the children.

Micka and Piper
have not seen their mother
for three weeks now.

And Allie says
she hasn't seen her either.

Some kind of punishment.

It's all beginning to get
to Bev, this whole thing.

The guilt, she blames herself
for what happened.

I haven't seen my family
for three weeks.

And all because
I threw this plate
of food at this nurse.

They have the nurses
bring you the food here.

So I asked myself why?

Why do they have
the nurses bring you
the food?

And then it dawned on me.

It's because they're
putting something in the food.

Some kind of drug.

At first, I didn't
notice that anything
was happening.

But I could swear I felt
all sloomy or strange
after eating.

So, I asked Allison
if she felt strange
after eating.

And she said no.

But Allison
has been having

really bad headaches
ever since we got here.

And it all makes sense.


I accused the nurse
of putting something
in the food.

And she snapped at me.

So, I threw
the plate at her.

I can tell you that
Beverly Goldring
has been very difficult.

How so?

She's uncooperative
on even the smallest
little thing.

She's gotten into
several arguments

and a physical thing
with a nurse.


I wasn't here,

but I heard that she
and another resident
got into a fight.

Do you know
what it was about?

Beverly Goldring
made a comment
in the cafeteria

that she wasn't like
the other residents.

I guess she said it
in a way that was
taken as...

Racially insensitive.

Well, Alithia McCullough
took a swing at her.

You see the sign
they got at the gate?

It's a cure facility.

If that ain't soft.

Make it sound like
it's real cushy in here.

No, this ain't no facility.
Let's just call it what it is.

It's a spital.

They call us residents.

Residents, as if this was
some kind of hotel.

Hotel Hell, maybe.

Isn't that a bit dramatic?

Have you spoken to Angela?

Angela Q, have you seen
what they've done to her?

REPORTER: Angela, there have
been reports that you've been
abused here.

That they have
mistreated you.


Do you feel, Angela,
that you're being
treated well?

WARDEN: Angela Q

is a special case.

She was very violent.

And in fact, she should
not have been
sent here at all.

She's someone who should be
either in an institution
for the troubled,

or a maximum security prison.

It is true, though, Angela,
that they give you
drugs here, isn't it?


What's that thing
on your neck?

They out-suck here.

What's that thing
on Angela's neck?

It's nothing.

How can you say
it's nothing?
Angela says...

I think she implied
you take blood
or fluids from her.

A side effect
of the drug Probisone

is mild hallucinations.

Angela believes she has
worms in her head.

We put a fake device
on her neck

to make-believe
we remove the worms.

She believes it.

And it eradicates
her negative hallucination.

The way I understand it,

Angela Q has significant
psychiatric problems.


You are not interested
in what they are
doing to us here.

You only want to hear
about the fairheads.

Rich, white fairheads.

This is the only time
I've ever seen

one of you vid-pushers
around here.

When some rich,
white bitch ends up
in this shit bed.

Mom thinks that
they're giving us
tipsy cake and

that it's causing me
to have these headaches.

I've been getting them
all the time.

I wake up in the middle
of the night with these

piercing headaches.

It's always a bad dream.

It's one of those things
where you can't figure out

if the dream is causing
the headache

or the headache is
causing the bad dream.

But I don't think
it's the food.


The attention that
sometimes focuses

on the use of drugs
at Walker Point

is really overblown.

We're here to help.

We're here to improve
the lives of these girls.

We do occasionally
use drugs,

usually because of
violent or abusive behavior.

But this is not the norm.

Most of the girls here
appreciate what we do
for them.

They're probably
getting more love
and attention here

than they got on the outside.

HART: We don't walk with men.
We walk behind them.

We walk in their footsteps,

to their rhythm,

with their gait,
down their paths,

to their heaven.

A man's heaven.

Those women who
choose to walk with men,

they're fools.

They're fools to think
they can control
their destination.

A house built by men
is a house built for men.

We must build
our own house.

We must do it.

We must do it
with our own hands.

No one will
do it for us.

WOMAN: Miss Hart is one of
our more strident members.

And as you know,
she's our founder.

But I do want to point out,
without any lack of
respect to Miss Hart,

that it's not our policy
to have a confrontational
public image.

The Atwood Society won't
survive financially

if it's to be viewed
as a fringe group.

And Miss Hart frightens
a lot of people.

a lot of women.

If we're going
to make changes,

political changes,

we must be political.

People forget.

Men would have us forget

that prior to 1850,

we could get a legal abortion
in every state in the union.

And then, between
1850 and 1900,

in just 50 years,
just two generations,

every state passed laws

making it criminal
to get an abortion.

People refused to believe
that what is far-fetched

can happen in just
two generations.

And to be political,
we must sound reasonable.

We must sound thoughtful.

We're in the present
political environment.

For the Atwood Society,

to call for a woman's right
to termination on demand

would destroy us.

Politically and financially.

But what happened
in the 1800s that
caused the change?

Well, it was not caused
because of any concern
for the fetus.

The fetus had
nothing to do with it.

Protestant men had power.

And they were afraid
they were not keeping up

with the reproductive rate
of Catholic immigrants.

You see, the wives
of these Protestant men

were having
too many abortions.

Was it really
that simple?

Nothing is simple.

There was a time
when defendant mothers
were not prosecuted

for fetal murder.

Only the terminator
was prosecuted.

This was generally true
even though the law made it

criminal for women to give
themselves terminations.

Prosecutors used to make
deals with the mothers

to get them to testify
against the terminator.

But this strategy
never really worked.

Women continued to give
themselves terminations
any way they could.

The only way to stop
women from this behavior
was to prosecute them.

So, our emphasis
is on eradicating
the system of punishment

for women convicted
of fetal murder.

It's one of our missions
to convince the public

that women are the victims
of the terminator,

rather than instigators
of the termination.

We propose that the law
should be changed

to emphatically assert
that a pregnant woman

does not have
the capacity to grant
consent to termination.

If a pregnant woman
can't consent to termination,

she can't commit
the crime of fetal murder.

Only the terminator
commits that crime.

Now, admittedly, this may be
viewed as a fiction,

but so is the basis
of many laws.

Years of back-alley abortions,

torn uteruses,
punctured vaginas,

ripped arteries,

blood dripping down thighs
onto filthy tenement floors.

Years of poisoning ourselves

in a desperate attempt
to control our bodies,
our futures.

Years of being
on strange tables

in strange neighborhoods,

being worked on
by strange hands,

surrounded by the stench
of strange rooms.

Last month, I removed these
from a young woman.

On the street,
they're called camel balls.


I'm told that they have
that name because

Bedouin tribes
in the Middle East
used to put

balls or rocks into
the uteruses of their camels

so the camels
wouldn't get pregnant.

A pregnant camel was
useless, apparently.

Well, somehow, this practice
has now been adopted
by some women here.

This is a Y-type uudie.

I understand they're
not easy to insert

because a woman
must get it
beyond her cervix,

but they are
apparently effective.

They've become
much more of a problem
over the last decade or so

because of the
common belief that
barrier devices,

which are
legal contraceptives,
aren't reliable.

So there's now
a healthy black market
in these little things.

Uudies are irritants
in the uterus preventing,
on most occasions,

the implantation
of a fertilized egg.

Because they operate
in that way,

that is, as an abortive device
rather than a simple
barrier contraceptive,

they're illegal here
in the United States.

Uudies would be
quite effective,

except that the women
who are using them

don't know what they're doing.

They're quite ignorant
in these matters.

And they'll insert
in themselves uudies
that are not sterile.

So instead of being
a simple irritant,

the uudie causes
a serious infection.

The woman I took these
camel balls out of,

she was infected
so badly that she was
bleeding internally.

And last week
a woman was admitted

into emergency unconscious.

She drank
a pint of turpentine
mixed with sugar.

It's a technique
that involves
trying to poison

the fetus to death
before it kills the mother.

It's kind of like
burning down the house
to kill the pig.

What happened
to that woman?

She's still comatose.

But she is pregnant still
and we're doing

everything we can
to birth the child.

My own mother
syringed chicken blood
into her vagina

and then went to a doctor

claiming vaginal bleeding

just to trick him
into giving her
a uterine cleaning.

He gave an abortion
and didn't know it.

Women inserting
foreign objects
into their vagina.

Women drinking
poison potions to
kill their fetus.

These misguided women,
these pitiful women,
are all poor.

These are the tools
of the poor.

Rich women have other tools.

Recently, they've started
going to France

for the tube implant
that releases a 10-year drug.

The so-called
time-released baby bomb.

They come back over here
with an implant

that is now made
of material that does not
read on an X-ray.

These women.

These wealthy women
living in their
rich, protected wombs

are getting away
with silent murder.

That is what
fetal termination
is, in essence.

Silent murder.

REPORTER: What did you do?

ALLISON: There was this
clinic on campus and...

I just went.

They took my blood
and they told me
that I was pregnant.


I didn't even think about,
you know, that they
would send a report.

And I mean...

It was this small clinic.
It was on campus.
I just thought they'd...

I don't know what I thought.

You know, it was like,
you miss your period

and you're the only one
that knows, right, and then

you go to the clinic
for a check-up and
the whole state knows.

So I saw Jeremy

and I told him.

Jeremy's first reaction was

pretty much utter fear.

His eyes got all wide and...

It took a moment
before he spoke and...

He asked me,
"What should we do?"


I told him I thought
I was too young

and I didn't think I...

I didn't think I wanted it.

Jeremy was real relieved
to hear me say that.

He sure was.

I just want to set it right.

I was there
from the beginning,
not Beverly Goldring.

I was there
every step of the way.

Allison came to me,
not her mother.

She told me about it.
First, we talked.

We knew what
the right thing was.

We knew she'd have
to have the baby.

It's no question.
It's the law.

It's the only
moral thing to do.

It wasn't until after
she told her mother
that things started to change.

Everybody says that
Beverly was the more
active participant.

But Beverly didn't
participate any more
than any one of us.

And we all sat around
and talked about what to do.

Even Tanner, he sat with us
and we talked.

I mean, if anyone wanted
Allison to do it,
it was Tanner.

Um, I told him that

I was thinking of
telling my mother.

And that she would
probably understand.

And at first he tried
to talk me out of it

because he was afraid
that Mom would convince me
to have the baby.

Like I said in court,
we sat around the living room.

Beverly Goldring
made this big speech

about how Allison
cannot have the baby.

That it would
change her life,
that she's too young.

She never asked me
how I felt about it.

I mean, it's my baby
as much as Allison's
and there's Mrs. Goldring

making the decision.

Of course, my daughter
asked me what I would do
if I were her.

I told her that
I would probably

I would probably terminate.

But I didn't pressure her.

And certainly Spencer
didn't pressure her.

You know, she said
it was my decision.


Frankly, I had already
made up my mind.

You know, with Jeremy
wanting the p-term

and my mother leaning...
Leaning in that direction.

It just confirmed to me
that my decision wasn't...

Wasn't, you know...
My decision wasn't
horrible or anything.

Spencer wanted to take
the whole family to Sweden,
make it a family thing.

Micka was running around
saying how she wanted to go.

And I said, "Absolutely not."

I didn't want to
make it a big deal
or any major thing.

Spencer and the girls
were to stay home

while Allison and I
took a short trip.

It's a good thing
it was like that.

Otherwise, they probably
would have put the whole
family in jail.

MAN: Three years ago,
we filed a lawsuit
against New York State.

It was a class action
on behalf of all

defendant mothers
who are incarcerated.

We sought to enjoin
the enforcement of
the fetal murder statute

because, as applied
to defendant mothers,

we claimed it was
discriminatory against
African-American women.

The real object was to stop
fetal murder prosecution
against all women.

And we thought this
was the best way to do it.

We thought we were
shooting an arrow

into the heart
of this problem.

It turned out to be
a boomerang instead,

because they enacted
the Unborn Child
Kidnapping Act.

The Kidnapping Act
was their response
to our lawsuit.

No, it's true,
we didn't know about
the kidnapping law

or at least we didn't
talk about it.

Although we did become
aware of it.

I heard about it
from my roommate
and I told Allison.

Before they left
for Europe, I told Allison.

Allison told her mother
and her mother told her
not to worry about it.

Of course I knew about
the kidnapping law
before we went to Stockholm.

But I thought,
"It's a new law."

And I found out that
Swedish law requires
total confidentiality.

That you don't have to declare
your specific purpose upon
entering Sweden.

And that the
Swedish authorities

wouldn't co-operate with
any foreign government.

So, no one could find out.

REPORTER: So, why don't we
start with your research?

MAN: My research?

Can you summarize it?
Your conclusions.


Well, your book
on the history of
political movements.

What can you tell me
about your research
as it relates to women?

It doesn't.Excuse me?

It doesn't relate to women.
Didn't you read my book?

Well, your book says
nothing about women
or women's movements.

And I guess that's what
I'm getting at.

It says nothing
about women's movements

because they do not
and never have existed.

So, I take it
you don't think
the great advances

women have made
in the past 100 years

is the result of their
increased political power.

Any kind of advance
that women have made,
as you say,

had nothing to do with
any political movements
organized by women.

Women have never
organized into
a voting bloc.

This is so because
women are inclined to
collaborate with men.

History shows us that
both in their private

and public lives,
women collaborate
and conspire with men.

And they will do so
even to the detriment
of other women.

A woman's movement
was born in the
mid 20th century.

A woman's political movement
would spread like a fire,

burning the landscape
built by men.

Oh, there are some,
I suppose, who believe

that there was
a women's movement
in the 1960s and 1970s

when there was a torrent
of women in the workforce

and they consequently
garnered some economic power.

The 1960s through the end
of the last century

was a time of
great economic expansion.

And there was a tremendous
male labor shortage.

This labor shortage
was dealt with quite simply

by the call for women
to assist in that group.

See, women did not
push their way into
corporate boardrooms.

They were invited in.

Our season changed
by the year 2000.
A chill was developing.

Our spring only lasted
two generations.

But it only takes
two generations.

It takes one generation
to fight for liberty.

It takes only
one generation
to lose it.

The old Roe versus Wade case,
which permitted women

the right to legal
termination nationwide,

was never dramatically
overturned by any one
judicial ruling.

Instead, the Supreme Court
simply took a hammer
and chisel

and slowly
chipped away at it.

Now, this gradual
chipping away was tolerated

because no one believed
any states would
criminalize termination.

Or if any did,
it would only be a few.

Indeed by 2005,
only four states had any
sort of criminal statue.

You see, the interesting
thing here

is that Americans, while
they will react decisively

in the face of a crisis,
will nevertheless

tolerate gradual trends.

Even if these trends
are insidious.

When people
do not have liberty,
they crave it.

They cherish it.

But when once
a generation obtains it,
they then ignore it.

They so much as
place it on the doorstep

to be snatched away.

It was many streams,
all rushing together
at the same time.

In addition to the
things I had mentioned,

the generation in power
at the turn of the century

was getting old
and conservative
and very scared.

This, combined with the
hyper crime of the day,

the burgeoning underclass,
the lingering street
drug problem

and the continuing decline
of the American economy,
all created a perception,

a panic, if you will,
that the American
social fabric

was breaking down.

This caused widespread
broad-based support

for imposing strict moral
codes in all communities.

So you see,
Americans really turned
very conservative.

Particularly with regard
to social issues.

People will invest
more energy into
protecting their jewelry

than protecting their liberty.

Women not only
placed their anatomical
liberty on their doorstep.

They elected the people
who snatched it away.

So by 2005,
the states were allowed

to prohibit a woman from
terminating her pregnancy.

Well, at the time,
it was unclear under the law
how far the states could go.

But today, though,
as you well know,

a woman is permitted
to terminate her pregnancy

only if it is
medically certified
that the pregnancy

seriously risks
the life of the woman.

Essentially, that's all
that's left of the
old Wade case.

Mom wanted to get in
and out of Sweden real fast.
You know, just there and out.

Um, we took the skip jet.
It took two hours.

We arrived in the evening
and stayed at this hotel
in Stockholm.

And we took a taxi to
the clinic the next morning.

I was nervous the whole time.

I couldn't help
but feel that I was
hiding something.

I try not to refer
to it as guilt

because I still do not
believe that we were
doing anything wrong.

But I had this
sick feeling

and I was uncomfortable
the whole time on the plane.

They had me speak
to a therapist or a counselor.

She was very nice.

She told me
about alternatives.

You know, like adoption and...

They told me what to expect,

that they use a
medical procedure
rather than drugs

because of the
problems with drugs.

I just sat there
in this white room,
with white chairs.

There's not a lot
of color in Sweden.

Everything just seemed so...


It sparkled with
white and chrome
and white marble and...

It was very still.

And quiet.


They asked me what kind
of music I wanted playing.

They play music
during the procedure.

And they let you pick.

So, of course, I asked them
if they had any Puru Guru.

And I couldn't believe it,
but they did.

So they played that one.
You know, um...

It really went pretty fast.

They had somebody
holding my hand

and talking to me
about things.

I don't know.
It really wasn't...

Well, it went fast.

You've written, Father,
that one forgotten reason

fetuses must remain
protected by the state

is because of what you call
the messiah question.

Can you explain that
for our viewers?

The messiah question
is a relatively
recent church doctrine,

being articulated
fully just around
the turn of the century.

Now, the doctrine
fundamentally states
that we cannot know when,

or more importantly,
how the messiah will return.

He may come from above.

He may appear
as an apparition.

Or he may arrive
in the womb of a woman
like he did the last time.

And because it is possible
that the messiah will appear
as he did before,

we must view every fetus
with deference and respect,

even awe for it.
Every fetus.

Because one of them just
might be the embodiment
of his return.

The messiah question
has remained archived
as a doctrine of the church

because secular people
simply refuse to understand

and refuse to consider
what the world would be like

if Mary had terminated
her pregnancy.

So, the church has kept
the messiah question
primarily in-house.

And the women's movement,
the pro-termination movement

got lost in the political
and social hysteria

that marks the beginning
of our century.

And although the Wade case

had been whittled down
to a mere splinter,

women's reproductive lives

didn't seem
to change that much

in all but a few states.

And as women began
to fear less and less

that their
reproductive lives

were going to change

the wind left the sails
of the women's movement.

And so, like dominoes falling,

with no one paying
much attention,

one state after another
began to severely
restrict termination.

By 2017,

41 states had some form
of criminal statute
regarding termination.

And this frightening trend
did not rekindle any
women's movement,

because the generation
in power,

which were a generation
of senior citizens,

didn't consider it
anything to fear.

Indeed, what America
needed most at the time

was a greater population
of young people to support
the economy.

So, on a very real level,
it was termination
that was to be feared.

What really changed
the church's role and power

with respect to the unborn
was the acceptance
by papal encyclical

of barrier forms
of contraceptive devices.

This occurred in 2007.

It was a victory for women

and for the church.

You see,
the Catholic church
was always viewed

as unfair with respect
to termination

because it didn't
permit a woman

a fighting chance
to avoid pregnancy
in the first place

by using some form
of contraceptive device.

So, when the church
ended its opposition

to the use of barrier forms
of contraceptives,

it came as
an absolute shock

and was hailed
as a major victory
for Catholic women.

But then, the church's
opposition to pregnancy
termination gained new force.

The 20th century American
had a fetishistic concern

for personal liberty
at the expense of all else,
even religion.

It was as if
somehow God had died

and left a huge
moral vacuum,

which resulted
in the killing

of millions and millions
of baby boys and girls.

And then the 28th Amendment
was proposed

by several congressmen,
which, among other things,

defined a fertilized egg

as a person with full
constitutional rights.

Some states tried
to fight the amendment,

like New York and Oregon,
but there was little
they could do

because constitutional
amendments do not
require unanimity.

The 28th Amendment
was conceived with
great compassion.

Now, don't forget
this amendment
emphatically states

that no pregnant woman
can be imprisoned,

because that
would be tantamount

to imprisoning
an unborn child.

A child who has
done no wrong.

And the amendment has set up
a national adoption agency
and a child care system.

These are institutions
of great compassion.

REPORTER: The prohibition
against imprisoning
pregnant women

has proven to be
a problem, though.

Not really.

I can remember when
it was first proposed

that there were people
who thought that
this would be

a license for pregnant women

to [LAUGHS] commit
all sorts of crimes,

or female criminals
to rush out and
get themselves pregnant

after committing a crime.
This has not happened.

The 28th Amendment
was actually viewed
as pro-women

because it contained
a prohibition against

a pregnant woman.

It permitted a woman
to get a uteral cleansing

without regard
to the presence
of a fertilized egg

within seven days of a rape,

provided she
reported the rape
before the cleansing

and there was some
reasonable showing
of sexual abuse.

And of course,

many women at the time
the amendment was passed

and still now

believe that
pregnancy termination
exploits women

because it turns them
into objects solely for sex.

I instructed my assistant
to get a copy of all positive
pregnancy test registrations

from Albany for
the prior four months,

and we found four Rockland
County residents whose
pregnancies were registered.

Two were still pregnant.

One claimed
she had miscarried,

but she comes from
a poor family

and her miscarriage
was confirmed by her doctor.

The fourth was
Allison Goldring.

Jeremy called me
and he was panicked.

He said that
the Rockland DA called him

and they were coming up
and he didn't know what to do.

I got this phone call,
a lawyer from Rockland County.


He asked all sorts
of questions, things like...

"Where you aware of it?

"Do you know Allison Goldring
and how well?"

At first I said I had to go,
but he kept...

He was persistent
and he was...

He had a threatening tone.

Instead of contacting
the Goldrings,

two Assistant DAs pay
Jeremy Tanner a visit.

We knew about Tanner
because the pregnancy
registration forms

contained the name
and addresses of
the father, if known.

When Allison
simply filled it out,

it was luck from
a prosecutorial standpoint

because we so often
don't have this information.

Tanner told us everything.

He started talking
about the future,
his future.

How things have never
been easy for him.

His folks were pretty poor.

And I think his dad died
when he was about 10. So...

He was saying
how hard he had worked.

How Cornell was
such a big thing for him.

He seemed pretty tired
from all the thinking
he'd been doing.

Didn't he have a lawyer?

He was appointed a lawyer
who advised him to cooperate.

And when we heard
that the Goldrings
went to Sweden,

we knew we'd
get an indictment
under the new law.

I was paranoid, so I asked
Dr. Gustafson of the Stockholm
Women's Clinic

not to send us any reports
or letters or records.

And I paid for everything
with checks made out
to cash. So...

So, there was no record.

No actual evidence,
until Tanner turned on us.

Child abuse and drug abuse
are major problems.

The states intervened
aggressively between
parent and child

when the child
was being abused.

This is when
the states likewise
started to intervene

between the mother
and her unborn child.

Intervene in what way?

Pregnant women used to be able
to take drugs, drink alcohol,
suck on burning tobacco,

work in unsafe environments.

All sorts of prenatal abuse
and inappropriate behavior
went on.

To fight this, the courts
started appointing guardians
for the fetus

to prohibit the mother
from doing anything
that would harm the fetus.

Drug-related crimes became
a very bad problem
in the late 20th century.

Public pressure grew intense,

so intense it shook
the very foundation
of the Supreme Court.

At one time,
a police officer
could search your home

only if he had
probable cause that
you had evidence.

Then in 2003,
the Supreme Court
held that

if an apartment building
was known to be
infested with drugs

then it would be
reasonable for the
police to search

every apartment
in that building.

These expanded
legal concepts
of police power,

the power to search
whole neighborhoods.

Concepts that arose
because of drugs and crime

have also been applied
to a woman's anatomy.

REPORTER: Allie tells me
that you were in the house
when those guys came.

Can you tell me
about it?

MICKA: These guys show up.
They asked if Mom
or Dad was around.

But they weren't.

They asked
if Allison was home.

So, I call for her.

She came down
the stairs and they
handed her some papers.

And she didn't know
what they were.

The one woman was
doing all the talking.

So they told her,
the woman told her,

that they had a warrant
to take blood.

She told Allie that
it would be simple.

Allie told them that they
should wait for Mom.

But they said no.
They showed badges.

What did Allie do?

Allie got scared.

But she sat at
the kitchen table.

The guy stuck
the needle in her arm.

We took the
blood test of Allison
pursuant to a warrant.

The test showed nothing.

We then got a warrant to do
a uterine examination.
That, too, showed nothing.

But both those examinations

were pursuant to duly
authorized judicial warrants.

All you need is
circumstantial evidence

to get a warrant
in New York to
examine a woman.

Allison's pregnancy
registration form,

the fact that she was
no longer pregnant,

couldn't prove that she had
a natural miscarriage...

I mean, that's
sufficient to satisfy

a court to issue a warrant
to get a blood test

and a uterine examination
on Allison.

REPORTER: Is it difficult
to get a warrant to examine
a woman?

In New York,
it's very difficult.

It's not like we go around
grabbing women off the street,
doing tests at random.

We're not like Missouri.

We do not have random
drug testing in New York.

A warrant here
requires evidence

of substantial
probative value

before we can impose a test
and that is not easy to get.

Could it be, Father,
that society has gone a bit
too far in punishing women?

Your concern is
the punishment of women.

Among other things.

Your concern might shift
if you could watch
a terminator at work.

The terminator will
dilate the cervix
and enter the womb,

cut the child into pieces

and then remove
the pieces one by one.

Now, by the seventh week,
each fetal part
is recognizable

as it is being removed.

These parts that he removes

are arms, legs, a head.

Parts which, just
a moment ago,

were part of a living
human being.

The terminator might
prefer to withdraw
some amniotic fluid

with a needle
and then replace it

with a toxic saline solution
that burns the child severely.

Within an hour,
the child's heart
will stop beating

and soon thereafter
the mother will
go into labor

and deliver a baby,
a dead baby.

The vicious terminator

might do a cesarean,

by opening up
the mother's abdomen
and lifting the baby out.

The child will often be alive
and then the terminator
has a disposal problem,

so he may smother it,

or he may drown it,

or he may just
put the baby aside

and allow it
to cry itself to death.

Men are afraid of women.

Men are afraid that women
will have too much power.

You don't see it.

Like a fish
cannot describe water,

men cannot see
their fear of women.

And this fear
is the very thing

that moves their politics
about reproductive rights.

Men somehow respond
to a woman's right

to terminate her fetus
as if they confront
the possibility

of their own potential
non-existence at a woman's
own hands.

REPORTER: Isn't it true that
states are allowed to remove
a fetus in some situations?

Well, in 2018,
Louisiana enacted a law

that in the event
a pregnancy seriously risks
the life of a woman,

the state would be allowed
to remove the fetus

in an attempt
to keep it alive.

The law has since been
held constitutional,

but it had little
significance until recently,

when medicine
developed techniques

to keep a 4-month-old fetus
alive outside the womb.

So, if a pregnancy
seriously risks the life
of a woman,

she now only has the right
to remove the fetus.

Yes. Now the termination
of a pregnancy

does not necessarily mean
the termination of a fetus.

Only nine months,
that is all that is
being asked of a woman.

Only nine months in return
for a lifetime of another.

Rather than wait
nine months

to place a baby
up for adoption,

why shouldn't
a woman be permitted

to place a fetus
up for adoption
at the fourth month?

Now that medicine can grow
a fetus to its birth age
outside the womb.

This would seem a fair
and reasonable compromise.

Of course, there is
the question of who will pay

for the costly procedure
to grow a fetus.

The Atwood society
believes that the state
should make a contribution

and share the burden
of fetal development.

The Atwood Society's
fetal adoption proposal
is a very evil thing.

What they are attempting
to do is to create

a secondary market
in fetuses, indeed,

if you read the fine print,
what they would
really like to do

is to create a liquid market
in fertilized eggs,

so that a mother
who is reluctant

could remove
a month-old embryo

and negotiate it
on some commodity exchange

and eventually have it
placed in the womb

of the highest bidder,
in the womb of a woman

who presumably has been
unable to get pregnant.

We have taken the joy
out of motherhood

and replaced it with
some kind of public duty.

We've turned the beauty
of motherhood

into the onus of
a compulsory draft.

Motherhood has become

nothing more than
state employment.

You cannot love motherhood

because the state
makes you be a mother.

Just as you cannot love a flag

if the state forces you
to salute it.

Several years ago,
I understand that you
represented Max Sinclair

when she was sued
by some of the women

who claimed to have been
hurt by her book.

No, no.
Actually, the truth is

I really represented
her book and not
Miss Sinclair,

I wasn't...
I wasn't permitted
to meet the woman.

Why is that?

Well, when I was
retained by some
anonymous benefactor,

Miss Sinclair had just
ripped the eyeballs out
from the face of a nurse.

And they drugged her
and shackled her

and threw her into
a white padded room.

So, I hardly think
any meeting with her
would've been fruitful.

Do you have any regrets
about One Foot in Hell,

about having written it?


As a writer, I can
understand how you might
feel that way.

But personally,
you must harbor some...

Some grief.


How do you
feel about the...

I think it's been
estimated that
nearly 175,000 women

permanently and irreversibly
sterilized themselves as
recommended in your book.

Does this not
imbue you with
some remorse?

And I think the book
represents a poetic,
primal scream from hell.

No, it's more beautiful
than it is dangerous.

I think, in general, people...
It's what they don't write
that's more harmful.

I guess all I'm
really asking is
whether you remain

a proponent of
female sterilization.

Do you still believe
in what you wrote?

I was 20 when I wrote it.

Just a child.

I take it that means
you no longer believe
in sterilization

as a means of attaining
power for women?

My book was wrong.

Both of our feet
are in hell.

ALLISON: Mom was
pretty hysterical

when she found out
that they took my blood.

And after that, nothing
really happened for a while.

So, we thought we had
nothing to worry about.

But then Dad got
the call from the police.
He said they were coming by.

You know, to take Mom
and me to court.

Mom was, well,
she got pretty frantic.

You know, because we figured
the test and the exam
did show something.

And our lawyer
tried to find out
what was going on,

but we didn't find out
till later that, you know,
it wasn't the test.

It didn't show anything
that he had...

They had other
evidence instead.

We tried to get
information from Stockholm,
but they wouldn't cooperate.

But we did get
the travel information
and the telephone records,

which showed
they had called
the clinic in Sweden

and we had the Stockholm
clinic's endorsement on the
back of Mrs. Goldring's check,

which she made out to cash.

Based on Tanner's testimony,
the travel information,
the telephone records,

a copy of the check
and the pregnancy registration
notice form,

we got an indictment.

Andrea Murdoch
is a brilliant attorney

and I have nothing
derogatory to say about her,
except I will say


she has political aspirations
and I think it was quite
obvious that she wanted

to become the first
New York State prosecutor

that got a conviction
under the Kidnapping Act.

Particularly, a conviction
against a wealthy,
Caucasian female.

Not to mention two
wealthy, Caucasian females.

Mr. Garson, you know,
he's saying that

we all sat around
and Mom and I made
this decision to confess,

that it was planned.

It really wasn't like that.

Trials are just
so long, you know.

And I'm just sitting
there for three days
listening to all these people

who had seen me,

like that nurse
from the Cornell clinic

and the ticket person
from the airport.

They even got
that stewardess who had been
on the skip jet to Sweden.

And of course I had
to listen to Jeremy
tell his story.

Jeremy Tanner,
he essentially told the
truth about the crime.

What he lied about were
his own intentions and
involvement in regards

to Allison's
pregnancy termination.

Why did he lie
about that?


Andrea Murdoch
wanted him to.

See, Tanner's a much better
witness for the prosecution
if he fought the Goldrings

and tried to convince them
not to terminate
Allison's pregnancy.

It just makes the
Goldrings look bad.

And in addition,
Murdoch needed a witness.

And I'm sure that Tanner's
lawyer advised Tanner
to cooperate with Murdoch.

I mean, this way,
both Murdoch and
Tanner are happy.

Murdoch gets a perfect
witness and Tanner doesn't
get prosecuted,

because he presumably wasn't
involved with the crime

and Murdoch doesn't
catch any heat for not
prosecuting Tanner.

It's, you know.

What about his story?

It was a bunch
of half-truths, really.

He was shading everything.

Trying to make him look good
and Mom look bad,

like they'd been having
some tug-of-war about my baby.

So, you know,
I just didn't feel
I could get up there and...

You know, be a poser.
I couldn't...

Couldn't sit in
a witness box and just
make up a story.

I mean, I had the p-term.
I had it and I...

I just didn't want
to lie about it.

Why did you put Allison
on the witness stand?

I didn't. She insisted
upon testifying.

So, you must've known
she was going to confess.

No, I didn't know.
I didn't know what
she was gonna do.

Certainly, you didn't
coach her to say anything
other than the truth.

That would be
grounds for disbarment.

Do you have any idea
why the Goldrings

didn't retain you
to handle the appeal?

I wouldn't know.

Perhaps you should ask
Beverly Goldring
that question.

It was surprising.

Mr. Garson
just stood there.
He was embarrassed.

He wanted to stop her,
but Allison just
kept talking

and giving away
all the details.

I was shaken.

Allison didn't talk
to me about it.

She didn't tell me
that she was
going to confess,

so I was hurt.

I just sat there
and watched our lives
about to melt away.

There's nothing
I could do about it.
I couldn't stop her.

I was angry.

It was humiliating.

It was a relief.

It was like there had been
some heavy, black tar on me,

just stuck on
my back like glue.

And suddenly it was gone.

It was easier
for me to breathe.

It was easier for me
to look up.

Look up at people.

It's easier for me to talk.

To talk again without
my throat tightening up.

You know, at first,
when I started,
I was scared, but

as I went on,
it got easier.

It was almost exhilarating
to explain the whole thing.

At the beginning, she just

stared out at nothing.

She talked like she was
hypnotized or something.

But then she...

Her eyes...

Her eyes got watery.

She didn't really cry.

I think she was
too scared to.

You should've seen Mr. Garson.

He just...

He stood there like a stone
and his eyes... [LAUGHS]

They were about to pop.

And I could also see Mom.

I didn't wanna give you
the wrong impression
before, but...

I mean, I also
felt bad, you know.

I mean, Mom was...

Well, she was pretty
pissed off that I did it.

But, you know, afterwards
she understood.

Besides, the media started
to like us a lot more.

Especially after we both
got seven years.

Even now, after
all these months,

I still feel very
confused about everything.

About how I feel
about what happened.

Before, I was so certain.

But now I'm not.

God knows I have these
dark thoughts that maybe
I did something wrong.

That maybe I should've
told Allison to...

But I didn't
tell her not to.

I mean, sure I told her
that it would be tough,

that it would change
the rest of her life
if she went ahead.

But I didn't tell her that
she couldn't have the baby.

I didn't make her do anything.

I only last week
found out what happened
to Allison and her mother.

It's a terrible thing
they should be
in prison like that.

So, I went to the records,
Allison's laboratory report.

A report is usually checked
by the outpatient staff and
a copy is sent to the patient.

But here, no copy was sent
at Mrs. Goldring's request.

So, I became curious
the other day

whether anyone had checked
the lab report.

When I did, what I discovered
was something that is
not so unusual.

Allison was 12 weeks
into her pregnancy
at that time we saw her.

When we do an abortion,
we always take the remains
we have removed

and have it
tested at the lab.

The lab reports showed
that the embryo was only
nine weeks developed.

What this means
is that the fetus had died

long before Allison
ever arrived here in Sweden.

Allison didn't
have an abortion.
She had a miscarriage.

A natural miscarriage.

REPORTER: What's gonna happen
now that the Goldrings are
released from Walker Point?

My office is preparing
an application to the grand
jury to get an indictment

against Allison Goldring
and her mother
for attempted fetal murder.

Attempted murder is a crime
and the Kidnapping Act
amended the attempt statute

as well as
the homicide statute.

The indictment
will be issued
as a matter of course

because Allison Goldring
has already confessed
to the crime.

Her confession was
on the witness stand

and there'll be
no necessity for a trial,
just sentencing.

Allison and her mother
will be going back
to Walker Point.