Outing (2012) - full transcript

That'll look like a Schnapps shot recording.
- Schnapps?

Mum, what does he mean?

A Schnapps recording looks like
Mum had a shot of Schnapps beforehand.

Wiggle waggle.

Dad?
- No.

How can you make a recording look upside down?

When you turn the camera on its head.
- Now it's diagonal, now it's upside down.

The thing is, you can't turn the TV set
on its head as quickly.

But if you did you'd get
a proper picture again.

Mum just goes ahead filming us
without asking our permission.

We have a right to protect our personality.



Our personal image.

You can show this footage
only with black bars.

What is a black bar?

Take a piece of black cardboard
to cover your eyes so nobody can recognize you.

Something is...

When did you notice that...
- How did you find out?

I remember distinctly: I had just turned 16
and there was a case of a 10-year-old girl

that had been sexually abused
and killed by her uncle.

That was when the term pedophilia
was on the news.

That was when I realised
that I was like that myself.

That I was a pig like him
who might end up killing someone.

And I wanted to do everything
to prevent that from happening.

So I did everything I could to fight my thoughts.
But I didn't succeed.

How did you fight your thoughts?



I just tried to tell myself that those were bad fantasies.
I also felt guilty when I masturbated.

I used to look at photos in fashion catalogues
of girls and boys in underwear.

I masturbated to those images
but always felt really guilty afterwards.

What did you do then?

I tried to suffocate myself with a plastic bag.
The way I did it, it wouldn't have worked anyway...

but I also gave up pretty quickly.
I realised I just couldn't do it.

I took off the plastic bag.

I never tried again but the thought
of doing it still crossed my mind at times.

I then was in stationary psychotherapy
and my biggest achievement was

that I got rid of my suicidal thoughts.

In the years before that
I thought about killing myself regularly.

Mainly because of my pedophile fantasies.

They were not the only reason,
but they played a big role.

because I thought I didn't belong in this world

and I was hoping that I could get
another chance in another life.

As if to say, "It didn't work out in this life.
Game over. Try again."

I think that there can be no discussion about
whether it's okay to have sexual relations with children.

Some people claim, "They are also sexual beings."

I find that very selfish
considering the children's perspective.

And for me that's absolutely clear:
any kind of sexual contact with children is taboo.

SPRING 2008

That's great.

Another piece...?
- Isn't that a...

No, that's a rim sherd.
A prehistoric rim sherd. Pre-latin. Great!

Strikingly, archaeological findings show that
products made out of non-ferrous materials

were relatively rare
in the Early and the High Middle-Ages.

Yet there was an abrupt rise from 1200.

I got this photo album for my 18th birthday.

It documents my childhood and teenage life.
My mum put it together for me.

She told me she spent a lot of time on it.

I think these are my nicest childhood pictures
because I look happy.

I guess I was happy.

This smile doesn't look fake.

And I look content.

As if I had been at peace
with the world and with myself.

However, as a child
I wet my bed until I was 7.

I had a nervous twitch
and I compulsively had to clear my throat.

As a teenager, I also found myself really ugly.

Not only because of my glasses
but mainly because I didn't like myself.

Look here, I had scruffy hair and a few pimples.

It doesn't look that bad to me now,
but back then I felt horrible about myself.

That was also when the bullying started,
which was even more humiliating.

And it reinforced my opinion
that I wasn't worth anything.

So from the age of 14 I had no more friends
for the rest of my school years.

Maybe that's why I'm somewhat relieved
that I don't have many photos from that time.

Was that the time when you found out
about your inclination?

Well, I found out when I was 15.
Here for example: that's me with my little cousin.

I was 15 years old.
That was at my father's 40th.

I noticed that I felt attracted to her.
She was around 4.

I didn't know how to handle the situation.
She was very affectionate.

As you can see, she was pulling my shirt.
I felt very uncomfortable.

Even if you can't tell from the picture,
I tried to keep a distance.

I avoided any body contact.

I was worried it might be a horrible thing
if I touched her arm or her back or... I don't know.

That was when it started.
I got worried and concerned

because I realised something was wrong with me.
Why would I suddenly fancy 4-year-old girls?

SVEN'S SHORT STORY 'UP'

I never thought I would miss my school days.
There were simply no good memories.

No, that's a lie. There were some.
But they went a long way back.

To when Fabian still was in my class.
Fabian was my last friend.

But when Fabian had to leave for a different school,
I was on my own.

Maybe they wouldn't even notice
if I wasn't there anymore.

Mr. Gerders would cross out my name,
Steffen would find himself a new victim.

I was completely dispensable.

Can you run away from your problems?
Of course you can. Just end it all.

I had considered it many a times, asking myself
what was left for me on this planet.

Maybe ending it all would be the best solution.
Even better to do it at school.

Have you collected many of your family videos?

3 years ago I collected all the camcorder videos
that my father had made.

The oldest are from 1988, when I was 6.
The last ones are from when I was around 13.

After that my dad
stopped making home videos.

I think I was always like that.
I was extremely shy and timid and anxious.

I remember when I was little
I was scared of the noise of the radiator.

I used to build a safety wall out of my cuddly toys.

They had to protect me.

After lunch Lisa goes outside
and makes the pigs dangle in the air.

At 3 pm somebody rings the bell.
Lisa opens the door.

It's Heine, "Happy birthday, Lisa!"

She opens her present
and unwraps a remote control car.

That's as far as I got.

I invented a whole world of characters.
'Ida' was the main character.

Her sister was 'Anna', her best friend 'Annika'.
Even the parents had names and birthdays.

The city they lived in was called 'Dannerhausen',
the suburb 'Mila'. They lived on 'Mühlenstrasse'.

I made up an entire world.

And comics, I filled tons of albums with my comics.
This shelf is filled with them.

I really escaped into that fantasy world.

Were your parents strict?
- No, not at all.

Did they look after you?

Yes, sort of but...

Not so much my father,
he was rather withdrawn.

But my mum did look after us.
She often felt like a single parent.

Even when we went on holidays
my father never joined us.

He always had to work.
At least he used that as an excuse.

I mean he could have taken a week off.
He hardly ever came on holiday with us.

So I didn't have a strong connection with him.

And my mother is somebody who
finds it hard to express her feelings.

When I was a child, she would never
take me in her arms or show me affection.

But then I never demanded affection.
So I guess it was mutual.

Did you fight a lot, you and your brother?
- No, not at all.

We were the best of friends.

We only grew apart when my brother started
going out with his girlfriend 8 years ago.

He gave me the cold shoulder
and I was a bit jealous.

I felt she took him away from me.

Sit on top of me.

Let's swim together.

What does he say about your pedophilia?

I was surprised at his reaction
as I had never spoken about it frankly.

After I left the clinic
I showed him my medical report.

I was amazed that he didn't seem surprised
that the report said 'suspicion of pedophilia'.

That's my medical report
from when I was in psychotherapy.

That was three years ago.

I was a stationary patient for 10 weeks
and extended for another 4.

It wasn't easy to find a therapist
that would treat me.

Many sent me away saying,

"That's too much for me,
too delicate, try somebody else."

And you showed this to your family?

Yes, I gave my parents the report to read.

My father said, "That's heavy stuff",
and my mother said hardly anything.

Actually she tried to change the subject.
We didn't talk about it at all.

I noticed that she was affected by it
but unfortunately we never talked about it.

It is something that stands between us
and forces us apart.

It always sits in the air
but nobody talks about it.

AUTUMN 2008

That's the basket.

I had no clue about basketball.
I went out one day and bought a ball.

I started practicing, trying to improve.
To make contact with him.

And I did.
But the whole thing didn't last long.

I approached him, tried to make
conversation and asked if he played in a club.

But I only managed a stutter and he said,
"What?" so I had to ask him again,

Do you play in a club?"
and he replied, "Unfortunately not."

The third time we played
my ball landed on the roof.

He seemed quite annoyed.
He got the ladder from the garage

and held it out to me as
if to say, "Get the ball yourself!"

That was the only time
I physically got close to him.

He was only three feet away and
so I got a chance to look at his face up close.

I remember how my heart started racing.

But... then I sort of noticed after the third time,
that he was pretty irritated.

After a short while I said,
"I'm cold, I'd better go."

Then he said bye and well...
that was the last time I had any contact with him.

When and where did you take those?

He used to play in front of his house
and I watched him from the staircase.

I looked down from the second floor
so he couldn't see me.

I secretly observed him
and often took pictures of him.

Actually, I only took pictures twice

but I took a whole series and
ended up with about 200 photos of him.

SVEN'S SHORT STORY 'THE BASKETBALL BOY'

Somehow, I never thought about him
getting older and eventually growing up.

I sort of hoped he would stay delicate and boyish.

When his voice started breaking
it was as if that had destroyed the boy in him.

All of a sudden he was an adolescent.

I can't even remember when my own voice broke.

Because I didn't notice and wasn't worried I might
lose anything with the end of my childhood.

But then I realised that I was coming of age.

I asked myself what sense life made

once the nicest part of it, your childhood,
had come to an end.

Glad you could make it!

We are happy to welcome a living legend: Don Rosa!

I took quite a few pictures of that one boy.

That's him. And these are his two friends.
Here's one—I can't see the other one.

As soon as he had his autograph, he disappeared.

And those pictures you post in the forum also?
- Definitely.

Can you explain to us how this works?

There are different areas: Here you introduce yourself.
Here you can share comments.

One category is called "Kids' Room"
There they talk about everything concerning boys.

They call it "Boy Lovers' Interests".
This category is called 'Boys and Fantasies'.

For example, "How far you can go
with your fantasies about boys?"

One guy wrote, "When you are an LBL, a 'Little Boy
Lover', try use your imagination like the little ones."

What exactly does 'Boy Lover' mean?
- It means that you're attracted to children, to boys.

There are LBL, 'Little Boy Lovers',

and TBLs are 'Teen Boy Lovers',
guys who prefer teenagers.

It also gives you room
to talk about problems.

I for example posted
that I fell for a boy last week

and people responded to it.

What did they write?
- Just a second...

The Internet is really slow today.

Here it is: 'Crossed in Love'.

I wrote where and how I met him,
how old he was approximately.

I wrote, "I rolled my chair to the window,
leaned on my arms against the shelf and watched him.

He threw the ball into the basket
until he lost interest and went back into the house.

I watched him dribble and score,

fascinated by his delicate face, his strong eyebrows,
his hairless legs, his slim body.

And especially his big hands
whose touch I will never forget.

What would I've given
just to be touched by these hands again-

not only on my hands
but on my whole body. All over!"

That guy replied, "I think we all know
the feeling you describe, I know it too.

They pop up in our lives
and then disappear just as quickly.

But what they do to us in these moments
they couldn't possibly imagine."

I couldn't agree more with what he says.

One guy writes that
he doesn't want to fall in love again.

And this one writes
that he decided to fall in love

only if he sees a realistic chance of something
developing. At least a friendship.

I find that strange though.
You can't control falling in love.

You can only try to suppress your feelings.

But they wouldn't take it
beyond a friendship, right?

I can't say for sure.
Everybody has a different approach.

But nobody openly says
that he has sex with children.

That would be rather stupid- you never know
if a criminal investigator logs in.

And then there are several others
who write about this.

Do they also swap photos?

Yeah sure, there's also a picture gallery.

Again, divided into 'Boy Lover',
'Little Boy Lover' and 'Teen Boy Lover'.

And you can upload
your pictures of cute boys.

And the police don't investigate?

All these pictures are legal.

The forum makes sure
that no nude pictures get publicized.

Why is this so slow?

So these are somebody else's photos?
- Yes.

I have my own photos too.

That was an excursion in Denmark.

That was in Switzerland, in Basel.

He seems to have noticed me.
He doesn't look exactly amused.

That was on an excursion. And that one.

That one was in Bremen. He's chasing a dove
that's why you see him leaping.

That one was in Bamberg.

This is just a poster. So is this.

How do you think
the children feel about that?

I think if they knew
they wouldn't be too thrilled.

That boy for example saw me
taking a picture of him.

He looked a bit skeptical
as if he was thinking, "What is he up to?"

But I think they don't worry much
about it even if they notice.

Interestingly, the guy that replied
to my posting in the forum

I am in regular contact with him now via ICQ.

And did he take photos too?

No, I think he mostly used catalogues.

He is an exhibitionist —
It's compulsive like my taking pictures.

He never went to playgrounds
with the intention to masturbate.

If he passed a playground, he'd suddenly
be overwhelmed with the urge to undress.

I know that feeling from when I take pictures.
It's an overpowering force.

In that moment, my whole thinking is controlled by it.

And it scares me a little
because I'm worried it might go further.

For example taking pictures
of boys in swimming pools or something.

I don't know where I'll be at in 10, 20, or 30 years.

I live in constant fear
of being a ticking timebomb.

That I will eventually abandon all my theories
and tell myself, "Okay, now I have to act on it after all.

And supposed the boy wants it too,
supposed he enjoys it- it wouldn't be that bad."

I just don't know. But right now,
I don't consider myself a danger to others or myself.

SVEN'S SHORT STORY 'EVERYTHING IS OKAY'

I had no choice.
Within a few strokes, I had reached the spot.

I dived down looking for you.
You had sunk almost to the bottom.

The barrier cord was still wrapped around your leg.
Around those calves, I had marveled at earlier.

Your eyes were closed.
Air bubbles leaving your mouth,

your hair floating around your head.

I grabbed you by your armpits and noticed
that you were hairless there.

I was irritated by my own thought.

I smiled at you. I couldn't help myself,
forgot to feign, to pretend, like I normally would.

But you were neither irritated, nor unsettled.
You smiled back at me.

I looked at your perfectly white teeth.

You had a tooth gap- maybe from
the last baby tooth that you had only recently lost.

WINTER 2008

That's a nice camera, beautiful.
It feels good in your hands.

I have taken over 10,000 photos.
It started counting at zero again.

It only goes up to four digits
so at 9999 it jumped back to 0001.

I always wanted
to have a family and children.

I hoped I would be able to get rid of this inclination,
my masturbation fantasies about children.

Did you intentionally try to fall in love with your wife,
to be able to free yourself from your thoughts?

Or did you actually fall in love with her?

When I went to the clinic I had given up hope
that I would ever be able to find a partner.

But when I saw my wife
for the first time at the clinic,

I knew that she was the one.

I have to add:
she wore shorts, had short hair

and looked more like a boy than a woman.
A childlike look.

She isn't exactly tall either.
- Yes...

I think that played a big part.

Also I hoped-
an unrealistic hope, looking back-

to really get away from it by having a family.

We got married and had children.
But I realised pretty quickly that it was pointless.

When I had sex with my wife
I mostly fantasized about other things.

Even the cognitive behavioral therapy didn't help.

It came over me so suddenly.
On my way home from work,

at home, in front of the computer... all of a sudden-
whoosh!-those thoughts were back in my head.

That uncontrollable urge to masturbate.

Eventually I started to go outside,
hide in the bushes and masturbate in secret.

Later I also exposed myself to children.

Being around children gave me a kick.

May I come in here...

Would you advise Sven to
stop taking pictures?

Or look for a different solution
to his compulsive photographing of children?

I'm not advising anything.
But I do see parallels here.

In my case, it was a slippery slope.
One day, I had the police on my doorstep.

Somebody had seen me
and informed the police.

Did you ever do it again after that?
- No, I stopped.

You still felt the urge, though.
- Yes, the urge was still there.

But I started to look for alternatives
to help me cope with my compulsive behavior.

So I decided to have castration surgery.

I made that choice because I said to myself,
"This must never happen again, it can't go on like this!"

I could have ruined my life
and done damage to the lives of others, of children.

And I really didn't want that to happen.

That's why I decided
to resort to the ultimate solution.

Did you ever think about suicide
because of your exhibitionism?

Yes, I did.
- As a stopgap solution?

Yes. But only if it were to continue,
if I couldn't get away from it at all.

For me, castration was still
a possible alternative.

You lived out your exhibitionism
for quite a while.

Yes, for many years.
Even these days I still dream of boys,

I have sexual fantasies about boys.

The fantasies, the desire, the inclination are still there.
You can't castrate the inclination.

Only your sex drive changes,
the immediate urge is gone.

So, it wasn't an easy decision
but a long process,

weighing up all the options.

It is a huge risk.
It's not my place to advise you to do it.

But for me, searching for solutions
I saw no other option.

SPRING 2009

So this here is the church, the cloister,
and here is a barn.

There will be some other building here.

And then there are city gates all over.
The city wall is still missing, though.

Then I have all these single houses here and there.
My goal is to build up all the streets you see here.

Let's see if I get around to it, before I move out.
I've been a little bit lazy lately.

Today, you seem generally sadder than usual...
Somehow.

Yes...

Anything bad happened?

No, no. Not that.

Is the filming wearing you out?
- Yes, it is pretty tough right now.

To constantly deal with the subject
for so many days...

It isn't normally part of my everyday life
to keep talking about the subject for days...

and reflect on it over and over again.

It is true that it sort of... distresses me.

And what in particular?
The subject in itself or our reactions?

No, I believe it's the subject as such, in general.
I guess it's a pretty deadlocked situation I'm in.

I don't normally ponder about this all the time.
Sure, the subject does concern me every so often,

when I see boys in the streets.
And also when I masturbate, of course.

But to specifically reflect on
how strange this whole situation is that I'm in.

I don't normally do that.
Or very rarely.

It makes you more aware when people ask...

Exactly. Maybe because I don't normally
communicate about this with others.

It is an unfamiliar situation, sure...

But it's okay.

By deadlocked situation, you mean hopeless?

I don't know if it's really hopeless in my case.
Because I'm not only pedophilic but also gay.

I think if I can live out the homosexual part,
which isn't unrealistic-I've tried on several occasions.

Though they weren't the right guys.
Maybe I'll be lucky one day,

and find someone who I'm really attracted to
and who also finds me attractive. That would be ideal.

To fulfill some part of this desire. Maybe not 100%
because they need to be of legal age of course.

But that can be a way to somehow fulfill
this feeling of yearning...

and this desire for intimacy and affection.

Why are you filming this?
- Well, I find the house really nice.

First of all, because it's so small.
Similar to the house where I live now.

My dream is to buy a really beautiful fixer-upper-
like this one, that probably has been vacant for ages

and to renovate it from scratch
in line with conservation regulations.

This house is just amazing.
Because it's so nice and small.

But it'll be a lot of work to fix it up.

And bells...

The street name is great, of course-'hell'.

Let me clarify that in psychiatry
pedosexuality is not considered an illness.

That's a general misconception.
- I see.

It's also not a disability.
- I thought, everything that's said in the ICD-10 was...

No. We differentiate.
It says here, it is a mental disorder.

To be exact:
'Disorder of Sexual Preference'.

You can look it up in this chapter:
'Disorder of Sexual Preference'.

A disorder is not a classical disease.
Because a disease has a beginning and an end

affecting me from the outside
and there is nothing I can do.

A disorder is something inside me
that I have to learn to live with.

The fact, that you have this inclination
doesn't mean that you'll act on it.

The question is: how close do you get to acting it out.
How big is the risk.

You describe that you feel
the need to be understood by others.

I'm claiming you're using a trick
and it's a clever trick.

By outing yourself
you are reducing the risk

because you want to be true
to your own statements.

You've set yourself a high bar to hold on to.
"Now that I've told you, I'll prove I can do it."

Sure. If it turned out later
that I owned child pornography,

then firstly everything I said would be...

- useless and non-credible.
I can see that.

And it'd be really stupid of me
because by then I'd be somehow under scrutiny.

They'd watch me closely, thinking,
"We hear what he says, but let's keep an eye on him."

Correct. But you are in the same position as
a drug addict who says, "I'll definitely stop using."

Or any smoker who says, "I'll quit for sure."
Only to relapse eventually.

This means that you have a heightened risk
because the urge is there.

The question is, how you handle it.
You have an open and direct way of addressing it.

Effectively, you present yourself
as if to say, "I'm normal- you can like me."

But deep inside you are scared that
some people might say, "No, we still don't like you."

Yes. That has always been one of
my biggest problems, actually.

I want to be loved
by everybody, somehow.

You're being very honest.

From what you've told me
about your childhood I'm assuming

that beneath your pedosexual problem
lies a deeper problem:

an incredible yearning
and the fear of rejection.

You have the desire
to be accepted by everybody the way you are.

So you're hoping that
by showing, "This is how I really am."

- that people will like me.
- I want them to like me. Am I right?

I think it makes sense.

Who do you like?

Many people...

- Name one person you like in particular.
My brother.

Why do you like your brother?

I trust him. We always got along.
I've known him all my life.

He's the most important person in my life.

I wouldn't know what to do
if he wasn't there anymore.

Try and explain to me

why you think
you are a lovable person.

That's tricky.

But this is what you wish.
- Yes, of course.

Give it a try.

I can't say.

You have to realise, though,

that pedosexuality as a crucial element
of how you present yourself

will not make people like you.
- Of course...

And this outing of yours
is not enough to be considered likeable.

That's why I wanted to show
that this is not all I am about.

So, what else are you about?

I have hobbies, interests.
I am imaginative, creative.

At this stage, you have nothing worth
making a sacrifice.

So nothing would be in the way
of starting a relationship with a 13-year-old.

That's right.
Regarding this documentary I was thinking,

if this were to paint a target on my back,
I actually wouldn't care much.

Because I have nothing to lose
so I wouldn't care if I end up in the gutter.

And frankly,
from my perspective, this is a high risk.

Let's leave pedosexuality aside for a moment.
What makes people delinquent, dissocial?

You say yourself, "I know it's wrong
and I don't do it because I have moral scruples."

But people don't become dissocial
because they have high moral standards.

They become dissocial
because they have nothing to lose.

WINTER 2009

Yesterday I had a date
with a 19-year-old named Chris... or Kris?

It was great.
We met in a cafe and talked for 3.5 hours.

We want to meet again. I think he is quite good looking.
Let's see what happens.

On the weekend I might have
another date with another 19-year-old.
I'll just have to see...

But today something happened
that might sound a bit weird.

I lost my basketball, and that made me very sad.

The basketball means a lot to me
because I started playing to meet the basketball-boy.

We played together and
of course he also touched the ball,

So, it's a painful loss for me.

What are you texting?

Still thinking.

I write that I'm still out
and that I love him too.

At our second date we ran up here

in the pouring rain.

From up here you can see
where I used to live.

And the house of the basketball-boy.

It's a different atmosphere in winter.

Strange.

You couldn't play basketball in this weather.

SVEN'S SHORT STORY 'YOUNG AND OLD'

Our relationship had started slowly,
without butterflies in the stomach.

It had carried on just as slowly.

Still, it was a nice feeling to
have someone by my side.

When I closed my eyes and caressed him
on his back it felt exciting.

But somehow, deep down inside me, also strange,
weird- even disgusting.

In his smile, I saw the boy
he had been only a few years back.

But I also saw the man he would become in a few years.
The man he actually already was.

Then it was not me who was kissing and caressing
this man, but someone else.

No matter how much'd have liked to be someone else,
it was impossible.

I would, goddammit, always remain myself.

Three months later, Sven splits up with Chris.
He arranges no more dates.

In the summer of 2010 he graduates from university
and moves to Northern Germany.

He starts working as the head of
an archaelogical excavation.

AUTUMN 2010

Over the past few months
I've met a lot of people through the forum.

I met up with quite a few of them.
I think there are about 20 guys I have met personally.

That's a lot.

Are they all from your town?
- Not all of them.

I met 2 or 3 when I was still in Bamberg.

I visited one guy in Stuttgart.

And in the summer, half a dozen of us
went to a quarry lake for the weekend.

We camped there and of course there's
always a lot of boys at campgrounds.

It was almost clichéd. Some of us were geared up with
footballs, beachballs- everything you need.

We simply started playing football.

After a while the boys came of their own volition
and asked if they could join us.

It was fun. We goofed around,
went swimming in the lake, played football, etc.

Afterwards everybody
went their separate ways again.

It was interesting, but I found it silly
how the guys started to woo the boys.

After the soccer game, 2 or 3 boys hung out and
sat around the campfire with us.

It was 6 of us and 3 of them.

So some guys started to act jealous,
which I found really silly.

After all, it was just for a weekend
and afterwards you never saw the boys again.

Did you and those guys
have the same attitude?

Partly. You get all sorts,
also in the forum.

For some,
sex with children is taboo.

Others say, "Well, if the boy is the one who
comes up to me, then maybe, somehow, it's ok after all."

Are there discussions about it?

Actually, we did have
an argument within the group

because one of our guys started cuddling
with one of the boys who was only 8.

That's dicey, not just for him
but for the whole group.

If the parents had seen that...
Most of them camp there every summer.

His mother or father could have passed
to pick him up for dinner.

And if they'd seen their son cuddling
with a man who is practically a stranger,

that would have been rather awkward.

So we had discussions about it because the guy
wouldn't see that his behavior wasn't okay.

It's different if you've known a boy for a long time.

I've also cuddled with that 6-year-old,
but he approached me.

And that was ok
because I was part of the family.

You mean sitting on your lap and hugging?

What do you mean by cuddling?
Is it something sexual?

Cuddling isn't necessarily sexual.

You can cuddle with a boy
when he sits on your lap, for example.

I also slept in one bed with him a few times
and nothing happened.

That's the acid test.

Well, the first night I didn't get much sleep.
It was quite agitating for me.

But you did stay true to your resolution?
- Yes, sure, definitely.

But at first, as I said, I got hot and cold.

I started experimenting with the game

but it didn't look great.

Then I began to build a complete new world.

A medieval town with proper city walls

a church, a town hall, streets
and a monastery.

Who do you usually play with?

With a 13-year-old boy.

I met him when he was 12.

I met him through a comic forum-
because, as you know, I collect comics.

I met him in person at a book signing
when Don Rosa was back on tour in Germany.

I found out he was also in that comic forum.
That's how we made contact.

We play together almost everyday.

And while we play, we talk over Skype.
It's easier than typing in a chat.

What do you mean... meet?
How did that happen?

We had met at the book signing.
I wrote to him through the forum and told him

I had a poster, a Don Rosa poster,
that I would like to give him.

He was really happy
and didn't ask why.

That's how we made contact. I brought him the poster
and we ended up talking for 3.5 hours.

I was really surprised.
I had been nervous to meet him.

We had talked only briefly at the book signing.

I thought I would only give him
the poster at the door,

talk for a bit, and leave.

I didn't expect to stay for 3.5 hours.

His family even invited me to stay for dinner.
And then I got to meet the parents.

And you told us that your aunt knows...

Both my aunts know-my mum's sisters.

And one of them texted you not to do it.

That was about another boy.

From last year. The 6-year-old.
That's a different story.

What story?

My brother had a new girlfriend
and she had 2 boys.

One was 2, the other one 6.

I went to visit them for a few days.
Over the Easter weekend.

The 6-year-old was attached to me
from the beginning.

I didn't even have to do anything.
Maybe he sensed that I found him interesting.

It was a nice experience. First of all,
because I noticed that I can control myself.

That nothing happens and
I don't touch him where I shouldn't.

And secondly, because it was really nice
to cuddle with him. It was nice for him also.

And I never pressurized him.
He was the one who came and sat on my lap.

And then we watched TV together and stuff.

But in that moment, is it sexual for you?

I have to admit that it does have
a sexual attraction, somehow. Sure.

You can't just turn that off.
But you have to make sure it doesn't show.

But you would define cuddling
as a sexual act for you, right?

Yes, I mean, it is somehow...
Yes, it is arousing, of course.

But you believe the boy doesn't notice that
it's sexual for you?

Yes, I think he doesn't notice. No.

I think, I was always so cautious not to...

...touch him too much or press him
against me too hard, or whatever.

That was the one
you shared a bed with, right?

Yes. 10 to 15 times all together.

Of course, it was pretty dicey for me
in the beginning.

I discussed it with my brother beforehand

and he said if I could control myself
it was okay for him.

Also, my brother was present at
the apartment the whole time.

Interestingly, it was the boy
who wanted to sleep in a bed with me.

His mother was hesitant,
she thought it might bother me.

I also thought maybe it wasn't such a good idea

in case I couldn't hold back when we lay in
a room together, hugging and cuddling.

When he sleeps, then maybe he won't notice
and I might end up touching him or something.

And to be honest, the first 2 nights
I did have thoughts like that.

So I went to the bathroom to relieve myself.
After that, I was okay.

With time, I found it easier to cope.
The first few nights were hard.

But I controlled myself
and I didn't touch him where I shouldn't.

I sort of got used to it
and it became easier to contain myself.

I was proud of myself for managing the situation,
for bearing up and not touching him.

But your boundaries have shifted.

Yes, but not my ethical limits.
That was about sexual contact with children.

And as long as that ethical limit is not crossed...

But what I mean is,
that this was already your ethical limit.

It used to be your moral concept to say,
"No contact whatsoever with children."

But that was out of fear,
out of doubt whether I'd manage to stay strong.

Stay true to those ethical limits;
to not approach boys sexually.

Everyone has to decide for himself and
really scrutinize his own behavior.

And ask himself, for example, if he can manage
to be alone with a boy.

To simply cuddle with a boy alone in a room.
You can easily do the wrong thing.

An erection can also be the wrong thing, you know.
It's all a question of different perspectives.

That's true.
But you cannot control an erection.

I could say, "As soon as I get an erection
I'll take him off my lap."

Or you don't put him on your lap in the first place.
- Sure. You're right...

I think we'll be there at quarter past 12.

Do you think he will?

Well, let's see.

At least for a little while?

See you later.

My mother says my dad is pretty hyper.
I expected as much.

In what way?
- He's nervous and freaks out.

Let's see.
I hope he won't hide in his room.

We have to select the right channel.

Here is the remote control.

It works.
- Do we have to...?

Is it now all put together?
- Connect the amplifier here?

I think it's not connected.
- Sound works... Right?

I know that feeling from when I take pictures.
It's an overpowering force.

In that moment, my whole thinking
is controlled by it.

And it scares me a little
because I'm worried I might go further.

For example taking pictures
of boys in swimming pools or something.

Does this remind you of Stefan?

Yes, it's similar.
We both have compulsive urges.

We both want to be close to boys.

Like Stefan who also came close
to these boys in his exhibitionism and masturbated.

Of course, I don't do that, not while I take pictures.
I don't masturbate. But I do get aroused.

And afterwards?
- Sure, I also use my pictures to jerk off.

I reckon- each to his own. If he uses catalogues
and looks at girls or boys in underwear, so what?

He can do it in his own four walls.
I can't see anything wrong with it.

But if he harms someone else,
that's unacceptable.

It's all about self-discipline.

You need to control yourself
and not let it rise to the surface.

When Stefan says he has that compulsion
to get undressed in those bushes-

I wonder, is that really necessary?

But he took the most drastic measure: castration.
- Yes.

Of course, that was the ultimate solution.
After he had tried to overcome it for 20 years.

He was in therapy. But it didn't work.
It was a compulsion he couldn't defeat.

Are you not worried Sven won't manage?

Let's say I'm hoping nothing will happen.
Nothing unintended.

Because then...

That's an interesting question:
How would you react if something did happen?

Not that I plan to allow it, but let's pretend.

We could also talk about that entry in your diary...

That story...
You don't remember?

You used to read Stephen King.
- Yes...

And then you wrote your own stories.
They were very realistic. And there was that one page...

You left your diary open
to actually make me read it.

You acted really strange that day
and I read your entry.

I know that's not what you do, but I did.

You wrote, "Today I'll go to school, I'll kill myself
and I'll make sure to take a few others with me."

I thought, "This can't be true!
Where is that boy right now?"

- Really? I wrote that?
Yes. It was frighteningly realistic.

I got really scared.
I showed it to your dad.

You visited your grandparents that day.

I said, "I have to get him back home!"
You had even given a time of day.

Everything was laid out in detail.
Don't you remember?

No... I don't remember writing that.
- You should look it up some time.

I wrote that I wanted to kill myself
but not that I wanted to take others with me.

You did.

At least then we knew what was going on
inside your withdrawn little self.

I used to think: that's just how he is.
But you never showed us your sorrow and pain.

I think it's a good thing that you
at least have the opportunity to talk about it.

I think it has been beneficial.
Of course, I was perplexed when you told me.

I think you were the first person I told.
I was around 19.

That early? You kept it to yourself
for a long time.

I somehow had a feeling you would
tell me one day that you were gay.

But the fact that you were
a pedophile perplexed me.

I was not so much shocked but concerned.

And I didn't know how to handle it.
I really had no idea.

But I didn't want to condemn you, either.

I was glad you had got it off your chest.
- Me too.

Many people struggle with this secret their whole life.

The pressure just keeps rising
until one day it all blows up, and...

Your inclination comes with a certain responsibility.

In the beginning, I used to think I was a pervert
when I masturbated to catalogue images of kids.

But what did we do wrong?

We have to think about that.
We obviously didn't teach you properly.

For a while I got the feeling
you were dismissing it as my problem

as if to say, "As long as you
don't do anything illegal it's okay."

What could we have done?

We gave you advice.
- Yes, sure.

I did talk about it with you.

I told you that there are
things in life that we want but can't have.

That is still my advice today.

Try to find a way to deal with it,
and to be content.

You have found something
you're enthusiastic about: your studies.

At least you have found satisfaction in that.

Above all, regarding those men who do act on it...

Do they have any idea what they've done?
- I'm sure they do.

But afterwards you can't pretend nothing happened!
As if to say, "That was long ago. It only happened once."

But this kind of thing must not happen at all.
Adults need to take responsibility for their actions.

Of course I can see the danger.

He can always turn to us, his parents.
I think that's the most important.

Even if our advice is awkward,
even if we are lost for words.

I think the most important is
to be able to talk at all.

SUMMER 2011

But not really depressive, are you?
- No, not that.

Well... I have to pull myself together
a little bit more.

I think, maybe therapy can help—for a therapist
to give me a kick in the ass.

I think this should be my top priority right now.

We really hope you'll find the right therapist.

There are some offers.
The only question is how to find the right one.

A name in a phonebook doesn't say much
about how good a therapist is.

But do you think he might question
the fact that you meet with boys?

Yes, sure.

In fall 2011 Sven finds a therapist
in a bigger city nearby.

To participate in regular
client-centered therapy sessions,

he quits his job and moves again.

According to scientific research,
there are 250,000 pedophilic persons

living in Germany in 2012,
who don't want to act out their inclination.

Very few of them have ever talked
about their problem.